LWAMI4 Final Player Torpedo Control Design

[LuftWolf]

Since I had too much cerveza after work today to actually do any work on the mod, I thought I'd at least run by the final design I did at work... (note, all the actual numerical values like specific depth settings can be easily changed depending on player feedback)

ADCAP- The floor, ceiling, and search depth presets are the three preset depths that can be selected using the preenable command while the torpedo is on the wire. If it is left alone, it will go to search depth on enable. This torpedo has two primary modes of function, selected by the Snake/Circle Switch.

Selecting Circle in the presets chooses dedicated ASW mode. In this mode the torpedo defaults to having it's ASuW Safety on, meaning all targets above 40ft in depth will be ignored (ALL surface ships regardless of size and surfaced submarines) by the seeker, but this can be disabled by setting a ceiling depth 40ft or shallower, meaning the torpedo will home on all targets it detects. If you leave the torpedo alone, it will travel its runtoenable distance and enable a passive or active seeker as set and go to search depth. The torpedo will not have a search pattern and will travel in a straight line after enable at searchdepth unless it detects a target. The enable buttons while the torpedo is on the wire have the following functions. A single enable click of a preenabled torpedo will enable straight-running passive mode and keep the torpedo at 40kts, as best the engine can if running very deep. A second enable button click will put the torpedo into straight-running active mode and order the torpedo to move at maximum possible speed for the depth. (The following features have yet to be coded, but are theoretically possible and I hope they work out :-) ) A third enable button click will send the torpedo into a single circle right, and a fourth click will send the torpedo into a single circle left (this can be done immediately after the third click for a single circle left only). If the torpedo is currently homing, this command will be stored in the torpedo memory as a reattack command, and will be executed immediately after the torpedo looses its track, if it doesn't hit a target and explode.

Selecting Snake at the presets puts the torpedo in Multi-Role mode. In this mode, the ASuW safety defaults to off, and cannot be enabled. If you leave the torpedo alone, it will travel its set runtoenable distance and then enable either active or passive depending on presets and go to search depth, then begin searching with a snake pattern of 15-30 degrees (I haven't decided yet). The enable button commands have the following functions. The first enable click of a preenabled torpedo will enable it passively with no snake at 40kts, a second enable click will order the passively searching torpedo to search with a wide snake of 45 degrees, a third enable click will active enable the torpedo with a straight run and send it to maximum possible speed, and a fourth click of the enable button will order the torpedo to search actively with a wide snake of 45 degrees.

When operating in Multi-Role mode, you also have the option of enabling Under-Keel Detonation Fusing/Dedicated ASuW Mode by setting the the Snake button and a Search Depth of 100ft (since this mode can only be used against surface targets it is recommended that you set the floor under the layer for stealth and the ceiling at 10ft for as fast a sprintout to target as possible). In this mode, the torpedo will ignore all submerged targets. The torpedo cannot be changed to another mode after it is fired. In Dedicated ASuW Mode, the ADCAP has the same controls as when operating in MultiRole Mode, only the torpedo will always go to 100ft when enabled actively or passively. If the torpedo detects a surface target, it will home on the ship and detonate under its keel for substantially increased damage.

Ok, I think that's it for the ADCAP... a description of the other torpedoes to follow. :up:

[LuftWolf]

The controls for the UGST and the TEST-71ME-NK (the advanced version of the TEST-71 on the newers Chinese Kilos, although currently modelled in DW as inferior in operation to the TEST-71ME) are very similar.

The ceiling, search depth, and floor presets are the three preenable-selectable search depths. If left alone after fire, the torpedoes will runout at launchdepth to their runtoenable distances and then enable either actively or passively and go to their preset search depths, either searching with snake pattern of 15 degrees for the UGST and 30 degrees for the TEST (the TEST also has a vertical snake/helix in its search pattern that will be addressed later), or running straight if wakehoming mode is selected.

The Snake and Circle buttons select the ASuW safety.

Circle is ASuW Safety on, meaning surface targets will not be tracked by the weapon regardless of depth presets. In this mode the controls are as follows. In addition to the preenable button controlling the depth, the a single click of the enable button will passively enable the torpedo with its snake/helix search pattern. A second click of the enable button will active enable the torpedo with the same search pattern. A third and fourth click of the enable button send the torpedo into circle right or left reattack mode, using the same scripting as the ADCAP reattack, which means (hopefully!) it can be stored in the torpedo when targets are currently being tracked.

With the Snake mode selected, this disables the ASuW safety, meaning the torpedoes can be used against surface targets. All other functions are the same, EXCEPT if you set a searchdepth of 10m, in which case this will switch the torpedoes into wakehoming mode prior to launch. When you enable the torpedo, regardless of depth, they will go to 10m and run straight looking for a wake. I hope to also retain on the second and third enable clicks the same circle right and left reattack functions while on the wire as in the other modes. Needless to say, the torpedoes will not work against submarines and cannot be active or passive enabled when fired in wakehoming mode.

I will address the things specific to the TEST-71ME-NK in my next post about the TEST family. :)

[LuftWolf]

The non-improved Test-71M has the following features.

While on the wire the ceiling, searchdepth, and floor are the three depths that can be selected using the preenable button. If the torpedo is left alone, it will run at its launchdepth until it reaches its preset runtoenable distance, at which point it will enable and conduct the search it was programmed to do.

The snake and circle buttons select for the snake and circle search patterns on this weapon. This weapon has no reattack function. The ASuW Safety is enabled by default as it is a ASW weapon, however, you can disable this feature by setting the ceiling at less than 16-18m ( i haven't decided yet). A single click of the enable button passive enables the torpedo and sets its speed at the max speed of its passive sensor using the designated search pattern. A second enable click active enables the torpedo using the designated search pattern.

The following regarding the TEST family search patterns is relevant to all TEST versions, and the NK version when NOT running in wakehoming mode. (Yes I know the presets are in meters, so I'll redo it in meters when I'm actually doing it). Since the TEST has a fairly limited vertical dimension on its sensors, it employs a helix pattern, oscillating between two preset depths in both circle and snake mode. The floor sets the bottom of the helix and the ceiling sets the top of the helix. If the floor and ceiling are set closer than 200ft, then the torpedo will go to its preset search depth (for a narrow depth band shot or for use in shallow water... it is always your reponsibility to make sure the torpedo doesn't hit the bottom). If the torpedo is not manually enabled, and the floor and ceiling are more than 200ft apart, the search depth will not be used (except for a preenable depth selection) and the torpedo will helix between the floor and ceiling preset depths.

If you choose to enable the torpedo manually, here is the choice you have for depth selection. If the torpedo is set to be at search depth, the torpedo will oscillate between the floor and the ceiling. If the torpedo is set to be at the floor, the torpedo will oscillate between the floor and the searchdepth, and if the torpedo is set to be at the ceiling when you manually enable it, the torpedo will oscillate between the ceiling and the search depth. You can reset the depth search by preenabling the torpedo and programming it to go to the proper depth to begin the search you want... you won't have to wait for the torpedo to actually go to that depth before enabling the search.

That's all I think for the TEST family... now for the rest!

[LuftWolf]

Ok, the wakehomers 65-76 and 53-65 are something of a separate issue. They really just need the physics calculations and some small updates to the doctrine and wakehoming sensor. So, more or less, the function of these weapons will remain more or less the same, along with the implimentation of their very poor performance at depth and long range/slow speed settings. In fact, for the AI, I left the wakehoming doctrine as stock from back in the day... its perfectly good that the AI wakehomers go to the surface immediately, the propulsion on these weapons is very inefficient too far below the surface, so that's the "optimal" way to use these weapons, to pop right up, although the player will probably have the choice.

The USET-80/Yu-8, MK50, and MK54 all share the same controls. All use the variable depth, helix search function.

The snake and circle buttons are to select the snake and circle patterns. The ASuW Safety is default on, but can be disabled by setting the ceiling less than 40 ft, thus allowing for attacks on surface targets or surfaced subs. The floor selects the bottom of the helix pattern and the ceiling selects the top of the helix pattern. The search depth is not used unless you set the ceiling and the floor to be within 200ft of each other, in which case the torpedo will search in a 2-d snake or circle, depending on preset, at that depth only.

Other than setting the ASuW Safety with the ceiling, the floor and ceiling do not effect target homing, only search pattern parameters.

Well, I think that's about all there is to say about the player torpedo controls in LWAMI4.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

I've made some changes to the UGST control design.

I personally like the idea of having the helix search control functions of the TEST family available on the UGST, so the controls I mentioned above for the UGST/TEST-71ME-NK will now be for the TESTnk only. Details on the actual capabilities of the UGST are some what hard to come by, but it didn't make sense to me to have this feature available on the TEST (which needs the helix pattern because of its limited seeker dimensions) and not have it available on the UGST (the ADCAP doesn't need it at all, the sensor aperature is quite large).

The UGST will have the same controls listed above, with the following changes: the snake button selects the 2-d snake pattern, and the circle button selects the 3-d helix search pattern (this can also be disabled by selecting a combination of the Circle select and setting the floor, ceiling, or search depth closer than 200ft).

When operating in Snake mode, the ASuW Safety defaults to off and cannot be set. In order to set wakehoming mode, set the ceiling at 10m or less (the exact details of things like this will be worked out in early testing and can be changed easily) and the torpedo will operate as a wakehomer only. In circle mode the torpedo operates using the same helix depth controls as the TEST, and the ASuW Safety can be toggled off by setting the ceiling at 10m or less.

You guys have any feedback on any of these controls? :)

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

The UGST will have the same controls listed above, with the following changes: the snake button selects the 2-d snake pattern, and the circle button selects the 3-d helix search pattern (this can also be disabled by selecting a combination of the Circle select and setting the floor, ceiling, or search depth closer than 200ft).

When operating in Snake mode, the ASuW Safety defaults to off and cannot be set. In order to set wakehoming mode, set the ceiling at 10m or less (the exact details of things like this will be worked out in early testing and can be changed easily) and the torpedo will operate as a wakehomer only. In circle mode the torpedo operates using the same helix depth controls as the TEST, and the ASuW Safety can be toggled off by setting the ceiling at 10m or less.


I'm having some conceptual issues working out the ergonomics of the situations where I have to use the ceiling to set the ASuW Safety function and also have it be a selectable depth for a wirecontrolled torpedo. This goes for the ADCAP as well, but it's less of an issue there, for me.

When I actually sit down to do the coding, the solution should be obvious then, so consider these features to be up in the air (well, actually its all up in the air, since only the core technologies are done).

I hope to make serious progress on some of these doctrines today. :)

Cheers,
David

[OKO]

Congratulation for this fantastic job, LuftWolf ... and Amizaur !
As I currently don't have lot of time for DW, that's all I could say, but your descriptions show how you improved the thing.
Excellent work, usefull and realistic.
The only problem I see it's the need of a clear operation manual, because torpedo use will become a very technical thing now !
Something like a PDF, very clear about the torpedo operations.
With a first chapter about common process, and next chapter about specific things for each family of torpedoes, including under chapter for each specific weapon.

This improvment alone could be a stand alone mod !
so ... very good job, you both are very creative and efficient.
There is now a HUGE gap beetween stock DW and LWAMI, in so many different things, you could say LWAMI is simply a must have for all real sub fans.

[Wim Libaers]

Hmm... Looks good, but is there any way to change the labels of those buttons, or are they hardcoded into the game? :hmm:

[GhOsT55]

very good, do u kno when u will be done? jw

[Amizaur]

Are you planning relasing playtest for new torpedo controls LW ? To have some people test it and check it features controls works ok ?

(P.S. Is a wide snake (any snake?) needed with +/-60 deg seeker cone and wire guidance ?? Even 10deg setting in doctrine gives 20deg snake pattern which gives +/-80deg seeker coverage - almost as wide pattern as you can get. Almost 180deg. Anything beside +/- 85-90deg is just waste of time and speed, am I right ? You would just scan space that was scanned already and not get your scan pattern width any wider...)

And... good question, where are the graphics from game interfaces ? Wait a minute, there was a russian language mod for Kilo interface panels, so there have to be legal way of changing button labels !?!

[LuftWolf]

I hope to have this done within the next week or so.

In regards to the ADCAP Snake options, I have to look at this in operation, but the whole point is to have a lingering torpedo that thoroughly searches a specific bearing column and stays in that datum for some time, something like a more effective version of the circle pattern... no one complaines that a torpedo in circle search repeatedly searches the same area, in some sense this is the point of those search patterns. :)

You guys know me... graphics are always last, after creating the .zip file correctly. :p If someone wants to change the graphics, knock yourself out, but I'm not going to spend my time on it. ;)

In my opinion, all the preset tags and labels are close enough to what they would be changed to. Circle would go to Helix in some cases, Search Depth would be the same, floor and ceiling might go to Search Floor and Search Ceiling, and the preenable and enable buttons don't really have a good replacement name, so they'll probably just stay the same.

Like I said, if a graphic artist wants to make new interface screens, I'll be very happy and include them for sure, but I don't see this as necessary, especially because all the labels are pretty close to what they would be in an ideal world where I could just change them at will without any special effort... but that's just my opinion, obviously the designer thinks the controls are intuitive and easy to remember! :lol:

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Two things, I looked at the russian panel mod distribution. It appears that the only things Negr was able to change were the button graphics themselves. I can't see anything in the distribution that altered the words that were actually displayed on the firecontrol preset panel (these aren't graphics these are words displayed by the interface files, I think), so tentatively, it doesn't look like the fire control preset graphics can be changed.

Can someone who uses the Russian Panel Mod's please tell me if the language is changed on the fire control text display panels? If so, then yes, we can do this, and I'm primarily interested in "blacking out" the extra non-wakehoming graphics on the 65-76... or maybe I can use these for some kind of extra features on the 65-76 (although at this point it doesn't look like the 65-76 should have any advanced features... it is a wakehomer with default underkeel detonation... I guess I can do something with depth that I couldn't do with the 53-65... ah all these weapons are really so different that I don't know what I have until I sit down to do it and finish up the research!).

In regards to playtests, I have three currently planned: one after the torpedo controls are done, one after the torpedo sensors are done, and one with the complete LWAMI4 changes (this will be thoroughly tested before release, unlike previous LWAMI versions that, because of logistics, were tested "on the fly" by the community after release... LWAMI4 is also MUCH more ambitious, so this is absolutely necessay). Also, these playtests are going to be distributed by email and volunteer/invitation only, so I can keep track of who has what, since I wasn't very happy with the limited feedback I got on the public torpedo playtest (in terms of volumn, not quality :) ).

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

And one more feature for the ADCAP. :)

In dedicated ASW mode, if you set the searchdepth within +/- 50ft of the layer, and the torpedo enables at that depth, the torpedo will oscillate in depth in its straight run between 100ft over the layer and 100ft under the layer, and with it's large aspect seeker, it will cover the whole depth of the water column for that side of the layer.

I think that's about it now. :know:

Two more changes to the AI, and I can finally get to work on these player torpedoes.

Cheers,
David

[goldorak]

And one more feature for the ADCAP. :)

[cut]

Cheers,
David

Isn't this a little bit too "advanced" ?

[LuftWolf]

Why?

These parameters could easily be input as presets, we just don't have the specific commands, so they are entered automatically from a single preset.

The doctrine will encode that as the layer at the launchpoint, so it's not as if the torpedo is "reading" the position of the layer on its own.

The actual ADCAP has dozens of features we can't even touch... so there is just about nothing on our end that we can do that is out of the realm of plausibility.

[goldorak]

Why?

These parameters could easily be input as presets, we just don't have the specific commands, so they are entered automatically from a single preset.

The doctrine will encode that as the layer at the launchpoint, so it's not as if the torpedo is "reading" the position of the layer on its own.

The actual ADCAP has dozens of features we can't even touch... so there is just about nothing on our end that we can do that is out of the realm of plausibility.


Mine was simple curiosity.
I just didn't think that the adcap could hop over and under the layer automatically during search without somekind of continuos input from the submarine.
Seeing as the layer is input during launch (in the mod) i don't have any problems with it.
I just though that the adcap would go "intelligent mode" and determine itself where the layer was etc... Kind of too advanced, at least for me.
In any case thanks for clearing the issue Luftwolf.

[LuftWolf]

I just sent the real final AI changes to Amizaur for him to look at... so that means the player torpedo doctrines can finally go on the fire.

Git'er done.

Cheers,
David

PS Since I've spent so much time getting the AI to do variable depth searches correctly, the sensor limits are going to be consistent between the AI and players, or at least that's the plan at this point. The AI should be almost as good at using weapons effectively in terms of the sensor mod as a human player, so I don't see a reason at this point to give them an advantage in this area. If they prove not to be as good as I expect, we can always increase their vertical aperatures somewhat, but it won't be necessary to keep their sensors with no vertical limits.

[Amizaur]

By making torp to make search at both sides of the layer, you practicly eliminated the layer as effective countermeasure... What is the layer "height" or "depth", I suspect that it may vary even when there is something you can clearly isolate as a layer itself, not only a depth of SSP change. I wonder if in real life someone would set torpedo to search at layer depth or as close as 100ft (30m) from layer depth. If the layer depth at place torpedo starts search was little different than layer depth at launch place, then your "cross layer" torp would effectively become one-layer sided and you even wouldn't know about it or know which side it is !!! Acoustic conditions around the layer depth are probably hard to determine and highly variable, and I suspect it isn't a good depth for torpedo search...
Can real submariners say if setting torpedo to search at or very close to layer depth is used in real life, or maybe depths clearly over or clearly below layer are used and depth changes to other side are only done by wire guidance ?
Of course torpedo as moder as ADCAP has it's own logic, and if it knew (entered before launch) the layer depth, and later locked and tracked a target which disappeared from seeker around the layer depth, it would probably make a check on the other side of the layer to see if it can reaquire it there. Or maybe programmed run when torpedo changes side of the layer (from clearly one side to clearly other side) every mile or so... but oscillating at layer depth 100ft over and below... I'm not sure... if something like that is used as real life tactic. In fact I have no idea if it is or not, so please anyone who know and can say, is it valid tactic or not ?
I have feeling that if layer was so simple to overcome for torpedo, then would not be so important to know on which side the target is or changing layer side wouldn't be valid evasion tactic...
If you really want this mode, then maybe after setting search depth = close to layer depth, the ADCAP would change layer side from let's say 200ft under to 200ft over (or even your 100ft, WE KNOW that layer in DW is a point event and you can set torp even to one meter over or under in DW... you can't in real life) each 30 or 60 seconds or so ? You don't need torp to point down or up for part of the time, to widen seeker depth band, it is very wide
anyway, you only need to change depth from time to time, so maybe better to make it by depth change command in periodic time intervals ?

And second question, what was effective (from point a to b) speed of ADCAP in this mode, such continuos depth changes would decrease effective speed in same way as snake pattern does. If the depth oscillations were quite wide and intense and effective speed reduced considerably, then this mode at least would have a drawback and was not used every time... in other case I suspect that nobody would ever launch an ADCAP in other mode than that against sub target and the layer would be effectively non-existing for torp and targeted sub...

[LuftWolf]

Well, it IS called the ADCAP. :yep: :)

My experience tells me that the ADCAP would experience a loss of speed, in addition of course to the loss of speed caused by the depth increase.

I suppose we could do 200ft on each side of the layer, that of course, is easy to change once the mechanism is established.

I think once the full torpedo seekers are done, this mode will prove to have its drawbacks as well (in certain situations it would be easier to decoy, if you know is heading up and down, drop a decoy on one side and then make sure to get on the other side... when you don't hear the torpedo, you know have gotten away... etc.).

All these controls are great, but they will really be redunant if we don't get the seeker parameters in check. The whole point of these controls is to make a situation where the player gets rewarded for doing careful preparations on his shots, rather than just spraying ordinance around.

I am reminded of a statement by SeaQueen some time ago that the reason that salvoes of torpedoes typically aren't accounted for is that multiple weapons are often not more effective than a single well placed weapon.

We are hoping to make this the case in DW, so the changes to the sensors necessitate better control over weapons, for both the AI and the player. I think it makes sense to give the most advanced weapon modelled for the player in-game the most tools to overcome these limitations.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Hey I just thought of a way to have torpedoes have a doctrine specified chance of being decoyed by any single decoy... which means I can set different suseptibility to countermeasures for each weapon.

This is necessary because one consequence of having wide seekers and greater sensitivity, is that the torpedo can also pick up decoys much easier, which may have meant, practically, that the ADCAP would also be easier to decoy than say, an older torpedo...

I had been thinking about a doctrine mechanism to get around this, and I came up with a new conditional: IF Newtrack AND ( TgtName $= "Decoy" ) AND ( Spoofed > 75 ) THEN { SETTACTIC TorpedoHoming Spoofed = ( Rnd 100 ) } ELSEIF Newtrack AND ( TgtName $= "Decoy" ) THEN { Spoofed = ( Rnd 100 ) } ENDIF

The first spoofed value would be set when the torpedo is launched as a random integer between 0-100. When the torpedo detects it first decoy, the value would be checked against 75, and if it were greater, the torpedo would acknowledge the decoy like before and reset the value of Spoofed between 0-100 for the next decoy detected. If the value of Spoofed is less than 75, then the value of spoofed would simply get reset for the next decoy, and the torpedo would store that decoy as a decoy and not attempt to home on it, unless of course it looses the track and detects it again on another pass, in which case the process would start over again.

In order to manipulate the "decoyability" factor of the torpedo, I simply have to change the 75 to some other value.

Keep in mind, this would be *on top* of the 50% failure rate for decoys already in the database, so this is only necessary for the most modern torpedoes that supposedly do not really get spoofed much by decoys.

This is the fun of doing this kind of stuff. :up:

Cheers,
David

PS Don't worry, game balance is always in the front of my mind, but I can't help it if the ADCAP is one mean weapon to have coming your way... this was not really modelled well before in DW, it was simply "one more torpedo." The UGST and appropriate AI torpedoes are the only ones that will have this feature, oh and the Mk 50 and Mk 54, but they will be a bit easier to decoy than the ADCAP.

[LuftWolf]

I finished the USET-80 and Yu-8 doctrines, so here are the actual *implimented* controls for these weapons. :)

The Circle and Snake buttons select for Circle and Snake search patterns, and the Passive and Active buttons select for passive and active mode like before. Now, however, upon enabling, regardless of the preenable speed set, the torpedo upon passive enabling will go to max passive speed 40kts and if set in active will go to max active speed at 50kts. The longest range setting for the USET-80 is 15.7nm, which can be achieved at 30kts, and the shortest range setting is 10nm, which is achieved at 50kts.

This has been amended as follows:
Ok, I've made the discussed corrections to the Yu-8 and USET-80. The torpedoes now function with two discrete speed settings. Choosing a Preset speed of 40kts or above will select the max speed setting for these weapons, and selecting below 40kts will select the maximum passive speeds for these weapons (also their long range setting). The Yu-8 and USET-80 will maintain a constant speed for the length of their entire run as determined by the preset and will not speed up or slow down when enabled.

The torpedoes have an ASuW safety that can be engaged by setting the Ceiling at a depth greater than 20m. If you set the ceiling at 20m or less, the torpedo ASuW safety will be disengaged. If you set the ASuW Safety On, the torpedo will ignore surface detections and submarines on the surface, if you set the safety off, all targets will be tracked regardless of depth.

These weapons also have a variable search function that works as follows. The Floor setting is the bottom of the search pattern, and the Ceiling is the top of the search pattern. If you set the Ceiling and the Floor to be greater than 60m apart, the torpedo will oscillate between those two depths when searching. If you set the Ceiling and the Floor to be closer than 60m, the torpedo will search at the set SearchDepth. ALSO, if you set the ASuW Off by setting the ceiling at 20m or less, the Search Depth will take over the position as the shallow search depth in the variable depth search (and just like with the ceiling and the floor when the ceiling is used to set the search top, if the Searchdepth and the Floor are closer than 60m, the torpedo will search at the search depth only, and not oscillate in depth).

So, practically, here are three situations in which you would use the weapons.

1) You are in water with surface traffic and need to fire against a submerged target with a layer at 150m. You set the floor of the torpedo to search at 200m and the ceiling of the torpedo to search at 100m. The search depth simply has to be set anywhere between the Floor and Ceiling and dicated by the interface. The ASuW Safety is ON because the Search Depth is deeper than 20m.

2) You need to engage the same target, but there is no surface traffic and you are worried about him coming shallow to avoid the shot (he is a crafty player). So you set the Ceiling at 20m to disengage the ASuW Safety, and, to get the same search pattern as before, you set the Floor again at 200m and the Search Depth this time to 100m. The torpedo will recognize from the ceiling to disable the ASuW Safety and use the Floor and SearchDepth as the vertical parameters for its variable depth search.

3) You are engaging a surface target. You set the Ceiling to 20m or less to disengage the ASuW safety, then set the Search Depth to 30m to give the seeker a cleaner acoustic position. You can then set the floor anywhere between 30m and 90m and the torpedo will search in a horizontal search pattern only, without any vertical oscillation.

I think this will work well for most situations and players. Remember, this is all implimented and working great now. :up:

Now on to do the Mk54 and Mk50, which are very similar but have an extra trick or two up their sleeves.

Cheers,
David

PS And, of course, the Floor and Ceiling functions no longer represent hardcaps below and above which the torpedo will not go... eliminating this was a bit harder than I thought but I got it working correctly... no more automatically bottoming out every torpedo restlessly at the start of the mission. :smug:

[LuftWolf]

And, for the record, the stats of the Yu-8 are as follows: 13.5nm @ 30kts, 9nm @ 45kts, with a max passive speed of 38kts and a maximum operational depth of 480m (USET-80 has a maximum operational depth of 500m).

For those of you not familar with LWAMI 3.xx, the Yu-8 is a hypothetical weapon that replaces the pathetic SET-53 on Chinese Kilos (player and non-player) as well as the USET-80 on other Chinese platforms. The idea here is that the Chinese aren't willing to pay the price for the USET-80 when they could build a similar version for much cheaper, as well as for the national pride. :)

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Upon further review, the maximum passive speeds of both the Yu-8 and the USET-80 will be 35kts.

For comparsion, the maximum passive speed of the ADCAP will be 45kts, and the UGST, Mk 54, and Mk50 will be 40kts.

As always, I'm open to arguments on specific values, because, really, these are scaled off of general data.

[LuftWolf]

Here are the implimented features of the Mk54.

The Mk54 is chemical fuel torpedo capable of 12nm @ 40kts and 8nm @ 50kts. It has a maximum operational depth of 2000ft, with a top speed of 45kts at 1000ft and 40kts at 2000ft. The maximum passive speed of the torpedo is 40kts, and if the torpedo is PassiveEnabled, the torpedo will maintain this speed automatically at all depths.

The torpedo has on-board decoy avoidance logic, and will, on average, be able to properly avoid 75% of active and passive decoys (this is the standard 50% database and sim determined failure rate for decoys with another 50% random factor in the doctrine).

The torpedo controls are as follows.

Snake and Circle set the horizontal search pattern of the torpedo, and Active and Passive set the acoustic mode, as before. However, the torpedo will go to maximum possible speed for depth in active mode when enabled and maintain maximum passive speed of 40kts when enabled in passive mode.

The weapon has a ASuW Safety that can be disabled by setting the Ceiling at 60ft or less. The vertical search parameters are set by the ceiling and floor, which are no longer hardcaps on weapon depth operation. If you set the ceiling and floor closer than 200ft, the weapon will search at its preset Search Depth. If you use the Ceiling to set the ASuW Safety Off, the top of the vertical search pattern will be set the Search Depth and the bottom will be the Floor, if the Search Depth and Floor are more than 200ft apart, otherwise the torpedo will go to the search depth when enabled.

The variable depth search functions allow you extra control over how the weapon behaves, depending on the situation in which you are engaging your target. Here are some situations where you might use these features.

1) You are directly over a submarine in deep water, there is a lot of surface traffic and you are concerned about the submarine trying to use the layer to spoof the torpedo. The layer is at 600ft, but you estimate the submarine is much deeper than that. Set the Floor at 1500ft and the Ceiling at 350ft, with the searchdepth anywhere in between. The Ceiling being set below 60ft will enable the ASuW Safety, and the torpedo will search with a *very* steep angle of attack, which is necessary since you are dropping the torpedo directly on his head. Should he avoid the first pass of the torpedo and come shallow above the layer, the torpedo will be coming up also with a very steep angle of attack. In this situation, if the torpedo homes on the submarine, the high angle of approach will make it very hard to decoy and very hard to out maneover.

2) Same situation, however, there is no surface traffic, and you feel him trying to emergency surface is a significant possibility, thus giving him an opportunity to take a missile shot, so you need to kill him with the first weapon. Set the Ceiling at 60ft, and the ASuW Safety will be disabled. Set the Floor at 1500ft and the SearchDepth at 350ft to get the same search pattern as in Situation #1.

3) You are in an FFG. You have detected a Kilo at about 8nm in bad sonar conditions... by the sound of his TIW's. The water depth is about 300ft. You need to get some fire back in his direction to give him something to think about while you regroup. You set two Mk54's with a preenable speed of 40kts to fire back at about 5-6 degrees off his bearing and a runtoenable distance at 6.5nm. You are concerned about surface neutrals and you don't want an vertical search pattern in the shallow water, so you set the Floor at 250ft, the Search Depth at 200ft, and the Ceiling at 100ft. The Ceiling and the Floor being closer than 200ft will disable the vertical search, so the torpedo will run along just under the surface when fired, which allows the torpedo to run most efficiently to get the most benefit from the longer range and lower speed setting, and then enable and go to the Preset Search Depth of 200ft. The torpedoes will speed up to the maximum possible speed and go to 200ft when enabled.

Now to do the Mk50 doctrine, which would actually be simplier than the Mk54 doctrine, however, I have to combine the player features on this weapon with the AI features because the AI MH60 has to share it with the player, for interface reasons on the FFG ASTAC station. I think I've got it under control. :)

In terms of the Mk50 vs. Mk54, they share the same controls and seeker parameters, including anti-decoy logic. The only significant difference (modelled in LWAMI4) is that the Mk50 is an electric torpedo with a constant 55kts speed at depth and a very deep depth of 3600ft and the Mk54 is a chemical torpedo with a 2000ft depth and speed loss at depth, and a bit slower over all in top speed, but also with a greater range. In general, the Mk50 is the best weapon to use in deep waters, and the Mk 54 is a better weapon to use in the littorals, where there is more of need for a "stand-off" weapon for aircraft and surface craft. The FFG AI MH60 now uses ASW to select three Mk50's for use in deep water, and ASuW to select two Mk54's for shallow water and Penguin ASM capable of targeting surfaced subs in case it catches one shallow.

NOTE: Mission designers have to be aware that AI MH60's won't engage submarines with their MK54's in ASuW mode, this is a consequence of the loadout fix. If you intend to have an AI controlled MH60 in one of your missions, be sure to have it launched with the ASW loadout. However, players controlling the FFG commanding their helo won't be affected by this at all, the Mk54 works fine on torpedo drop points as well as with the menu engage commands if you aren't controlling the helo or don't feel like using a waypoint, although using a waypoint is recommended. The AI helo pilot will properly use the presets to get sensible search behaviors in terms of depth with the torpedo for both the Mk50 and Mk54. (So in short, this is only an issue if the MH60 is FULLY AI controlled... or the player is not paying attention to the helo at all... )

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

One more idea on the topic of decoy avoidance logic. :sunny:

I'm going to give the wireguided torpedoes a significantly decreased chance of being decoyed if on the wire, and a bit more of chance to be decoyed if they are off the wire... it simulate the ability of the torpedo in coordination with ownship sensors and torpedo operators to overcome decoys.

All of the actual values need to be tested in game, keep this in mind, but I personally like these kinds of features, since we are limited in some other ways, and there IS a lot of automatic processing done in these weapons and their associated fire control systems.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Is anyone getting the idea that modern ASW is a pretty lethal affair? :hmm:

Anyone who goes deep in a submarine has some stones.

[Molon Labe]

so when do we get a test version to scrimmage with???

[LuftWolf]

Hi there! :cool:

As soon as I finish all the player torpedo doctrines. :yep: :know:

Give me a couple more days...

Cheers,
David

[Amizaur]

One more idea on the topic of decoy avoidance logic. :sunny:

I'm going to give the wireguided torpedoes a significantly decreased chance of being decoyed if on the wire, and a bit more of chance to be decoyed if they are off the wire... it simulate the ability of the torpedo in coordination with ownship sensors and torpedo operators to overcome decoys.


Think it's a very good idea ! We had to disable sensor feedback for torps, but this would be some kind of "bonus" for being "on the wire" as weapon operators really can help in rejectiong false targets.

I think about the idea that passive weapon on enable hit's max passive speed... I know we have this for ADCAP. But you can enable and disable it again when on the wire. When you use very slow speed you aim for max range. When you enable active then, target knows it is targeted and will run, so staying slow is not an option, even though you shrink your remaining torp range. But when you enable passive torp, enemy don't know about this. And with quiet torp you can have as good chances to hitting it at slow.
When torp goes to maxpassive speed at enable, it shrinks it's range below the max figure at set slow speed. But on the other hand, for USET-80, with passive speed of 35 and minimum speed of something like 30kts, the difference in true range would be not much... and you can recognise that torpedo had enabled by speed change ! So overall, I think you are right and keep it this way, at passive enable speed up to maxpassivespeed.

I would strongly advice for you, to keep the values I set for min speed and ranges. I didn't take them from the air.
For example, USET-80 is electrical torpedo. With a really very good max speed of nearly 50kts it has reportedly less than 10nm range at that speed. With electrical propulsion, it would benefit greatly when run at very slow speeds and would get max range at something like 25kts (look at tigerfish or older european electric torps). It would be quite long range, something like around 20nm probably. BUT. The USET-80 is reported to have only two hard set speed settings! One is max, and second is medium (not aimed at max range). Probably electric motor and it's control unit limitation. Other sources says that it is single variable speed but setting speed is troublesome (maybe by technicans before loading into tube) so they keep them set to single speed, and it can't change speed during run.
In first case minimum speed can't be set down to 25kts to allow player get extra range. Min speed would be the second torp speed setting, in medium speed range (don't remmber now what it was). Of course max passive speed has to be no lower than that. In second case... would be effectively single speed torpedo - something like 10.5nm/45kts ot 9.7nm/48kts. But then where passive mode here... only if set to slow run all the way... before loading into tube.
In my doctrines I set TorpMinSpeed equal to SpeedLong = 30kts (and it was probably a trade-off to give it good range in game...) and left max passive speed at 40kts only because I didn't plan then to force maxpassive speed at passive enable. Just wanted to reduce it to common used value (40kts) from higher speeds - if someone send 50kts passive torp, it would slow down to 40 at enable.
If you set maxpassivespeed for USET to 35kts (which is ok, it's not that modern, probably REAL passive speed for USET is even lower) then the min speed have to be little lower, to allow player recognise that weapon enabled. 30kts is best I think, trade-off between realism and game.
If we aimed for full realism, it should be variable but single speed all the way. So active/passive only (it doesn't have wire anyway) and no speed-up or automatic slow-down at enable. Who send 50kts passive torp, wasted it.
If it was my mod, I would go for that ;-), first thing for me realism = cool, and I find real life weapon/sensors constraints cool too - something you have to remember when choosing attack method and torp settings.

And ADCAP max passive speed - I would left it at 40kts. To get good performance, it can't go too fast. It's not the most modern weapon with advanced hydrodynamic shape developed in CFD simulations, like newest european designs. And from playability poin of view, having in game 45kts passive torpedo isn't best thing too I think... And the last argument - with this setting, the weapon will never reach it's max range - range will be always little shorter after passive enable... The fact that in the game passive seeker was washing out at 45kts, as you mentioned yourself to Molon Labe, needed washout speed correction, not passive speed correction :-) And I think the same.

edit:

The Mk54 is chemical fuel torpedo capable of 12nm @ 40kts and 8nm @ 50kts. It has a maximum operational depth of 2000ft, with a top speed of 45kts at 1000ft and 40kts at 2000ft.

Where is that data from ? MK-54 is Mk-46 propulsion with Mk-50 warhead, right ? Shouldn't have max speed and diving ability greater than those of Mk-46, depth speed reduction too (significant for Mk-46 - it has half of range at max depth of 1500ft which probably means half of max speed at max depth too). Range... is fuel amount same like for Mk-46 or greater ?

So max speed = 45kts near surface, not more than 25kts kts at 1500ft. The ranges I have for Mk-46 are about half of your values !! I have 12000yd/8000yd and you have 12nm/8nm :huh: Where is this from ??

[LuftWolf]

I'll respond to the rest later, but regarding the Mk54.

The MK54 is being developed as a low cost alternative to the Mk50, as a replacement for the Mk46.

However, there is no cost factor in DW. Players can always use the best weapon avaible.

Thus, if I replaced the MK46 with a Mk54 with Mk46 capabilites, I would have accomplished nothing.

Keep in mind also, that the MK54 Lightweight Hybrid Torpedo program as first envisioned, as the front of a mk50 stuck on the back of a mk46, is reported to be in trouble. The assumption here is that the US has some money to invest in Mk54 research to improve the 40+ year old propulsion of the Mk46 before fielding the new weapon.

So, I made the numbers up.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

I would strongly advice for you, to keep the values I set for min speed and ranges. I didn't take them from the air.

I have left these as you set them in the doctrines you sent me except when missing like with the Yu8 and the Mk54.

So, in point form: :)

1) Corrected for USET-80 and Yu-8 Remove the enable-speed change for the USET-80 and Yu-8 (so only the ADCAP, UGST, and LWT's will have this feature, and TEST-71 will have some wire-controlled speed functions as well). Also, I'm going to give them discrete speeds, one at their max speed, and one at their maxpassive speed. This will be set by chosing a speed setting closer to one of the discrete values or the other, so the torpedoes will always run at 50/45kts and 35kts. The Test-71 will share these discrete speeds as well, 25kts max passive speed and 40kts maximum speed, hey it's really old!.

2) I'll leave the max passive speed for the USET-80 and Yu-8 at 35. The Test-71 will share this 35kts speed in theory, but because of its speed settings will be limited to an effective maxpassive speed of 25kts, and the UGST, Mk50, and Mk54 will have maxpassive speeds of 40kts. I'm still not convinced about the ADCAP's max passive speed. If we are admittedly oversetting the old Russian torpedoes at 35kts (when they probably should be closer to 25-30kts, although this would make them in game terms more or less useless in passive mode), then I have no problem setting the ADCAP max passive speed at 45kts.

Remember that upgrade factor I was talking about... some things in the game are "juiced", but as long as this is consistently done and balanced in other areas, it would imbalance the game NOT to do it.

I've got my head SO far up DW's ass at this point, I'm smelling fresh air. So trust me for the time being. :know:

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Ok, I've made the discussed corrections to the Yu-8 and USET-80.

The torpedoes now function with two discrete speed settings. Choosing a Preset speed of 40kts or above will select the max speed setting for these weapons, and selecting below 40kts will select the maximum passive speeds for these weapons (also their long range setting).

The Yu-8 and USET-80 will maintain a constant speed for the length of their entire run as determined by the preset and will not speed up or slow down when enabled.

I'll also post this in red as a correction to the above mentioned instructions for these weapons.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

So, I made the numbers up.

Cheers,
David

It occurred to me that some of you might be bothered by this statement...

So, it was an "educated idealization"...

In any case, the values seem to work.

In terms of how this reflects on our creative process... I have two versions of the same answer: 1) we always try to use the best data available, and when it is unavailable, use our best intuition and comparative reasoning to come up with values that work in the context of DW; 2) there is a lot of guesswork involved in this kind of thing because we don't have the real values in a lot of cases and its doubtful having the exact values in all cases would work as well with this engine as some other values in terms of creating a quality simulator experience.

I hope you guys understand this is about fun for me, but I take it very seriously.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

I finished the Combined Mk50 Player and AI MH-60 doctrine.

The Mk50 is an electric torpedo with the following parameters, 5nm @ 55kts and 7nm @ 40kts with a maximum operational depth of 3600ft.

The controls and operation are the same as described for the Mk 54, aside from the differences in performance and propulsion.

As stated above, the AI MH60 pilot (and in fact all helos and AI platforms for all torpedoes) will use the appropriate depth presets when firing in a variety of conditions for both the Mk50 and Mk54, and will always fire the weapons in active mode at max speed, however the horizontal search pattern varies appropriately as set by the simulator, as before.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

So, I made the numbers up.

Cheers,
David

It occurred to me that some of you might be bothered by this statement...

So, it was an "educated idealization"...

In any case, the values seem to work.



Not terribly. While I might not have done it in your position, it's no worse than the hypothetical stats of, say, the shkval. The torp does enhance the capabilities of the FFG a bit, which is a good thing, and keeps a weapon from being useless, which is a very good thing. The impact on realism seems negligible.

[LuftWolf]

Now the hard work of doing the wireguided torpedo doctrines begins... these are a whole different animal from the non-wg torpedoes, there are so many moving parts now. :)

I'm taking on the ADCAP first, so wish me luck.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Well, guess what guys.

I have hit a very interesting limitation. The ADCAP doctrine requires more variables than the Doctrine Checker is capable of handling, which is 50 before things start to go funny and 51 then it just crashes... however, the doctrine intepretor of DW itself seems to be able to handle as many variables as I can stuff into it.

This, however, is a major tool for checking syntax and general doctrine integrity... I can get by by selectively editing out variables when I want to check something specific, but it's basically me and my eyes from here on out. :rock:

Cheers,
David

[Amizaur]

UEST-80 - are you thinking maybe about some kind of speed/working mode dependance ? For example, if one launches 50kts USET it will always enable active, if low speed - active or passive as set. Or the other way - passive setting would force slow run ? Or we leave this for user to remember ? :-)

TEST-71 - I don't know, but maybe TEST can change speed during run... Or maybe not. I have to check what commands can be send by TEST-71 wire datalink. It is not said clearly that you can change torpedo speed by wire in my sources... But USET-80 had probably one speed setting. You could set it to different values, but once set, torpedo run all distance on that speed. When I readed all materials once again, I find this to be cited much more often and it makes more sense, as torpedo speed is reporded as 50, 48 or 45kts with little different ranges. The TEST-71 on the other hand, is clearly stated to have electric engine with two fixed speed settings, one 40kts and the second 24-26kts in different versions. USET-80 had no wire, all settings set before launch. TEST-71 has wire guidance, so I think it's quite possible that speed setting can be selected by wire command, switched between those two hard set values. I would make it two hard-set values (40 and 25kts) but changeable during run (so speed up on active enable and slow down on passive enable). On the other hand, the TEST-71 guidance is described as "2D" and I'm not sure what this means... would it be "course only" and not depth ? But why ? Grrrr... I know now that the PDF pages I have are from Russian Arms Catalog (relased by Military Parade Int?), but the source text is in Russian and the english text is just an automated translation and is translated so badly that I can't clearly understand what it means... :(

Something like: "Designed to attack submarines, the TEST-71MKE torpedo is launched from submarines.
The warshot configuration of the torpedo comprises a homing system, impact and proximity fuzes, warhead section, disposable silver-zinc battery, control devices, electronic package, torpedo guidance wire reel, electric propulsion motor, and towed guidance wire reel. The torpedo remote guidance, homing, as well as course, depth and list control systems provide for a 2-D
maneuvering of the weapon, steer it to the proximity exploder activation zone or ensure a direct hit on the target. Two exploders detonate the weapon's explosive charge. The torpedo's propulsion plant is so designed that the weapon leaves no wake when it runs, and maintains permanent speed and range regardless of the running depth. The torpedo has two running speed modes."

If I knew how to paste Russian original text in readable form here, maybe someone could translate it correctly... O yeah, I know:

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/129/test71mkerussmall3pd.png

On chinese site there is: "The operator can manually switch the torpedo to an alternative target during midcourse, or control the torpedo to manoeuvre in two axes." Two axes would mean course AND depth, right ?? But what would be 3 axes then ??? course depth and speed ? Or maybe two axes means one plane (horizontal) so course only ? Grrr.. :-/

[LuftWolf]

The forward travel, one dimension, is accounted for by the speed setting, thus 2-D control in this context would mean course and depth.

I am a native english speaker, and everytime I read anything about the TEST-71 (in English) I always interpreted what was written as course and depth control, with the other axis being the speed setting, which for reasons of context, may be available but not explicetly mentioned here.

So I think the TEST-71 definately has depth and course control on the wire, and probably has speed control on the wire as well.

In regards to the USET-80/Yu-8, the user has to input all the presets correctly. All the features mentioned here are actually implimented in the last version I sent you. The most interesting feature is the discrete invariable speed settings, 40kts or more preset speed to select top speed for the weapon, and 39kts or less to select slow speed for the weapon. The weapons will stay at that speed when launched, so if you want to fire a passive torpedo, you need to be sure to put the torpedo into low speed mode by setting the preset speed to any speed 39kts or lower.

[LuftWolf]

Just a quick update for you guys. :)

I've finished the wireguided torpedo template that has all the features universal to all the torpedoes and is at this point bug-free in all my testing so far... :doh:

So now I have to add the master interface controls and features that are unique to each WG torpedo, do the wakehomers, the final edit to the database, and update some AI features, and we'll be ready for some playtesting.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

I have finished the first wireguided torpedo, the TEST-71M(E). :)

Here are the implimented controls of the TEST-71M(E).

The TEST-71M(E) is an electric wireguided torpedo capable of 13.5nm @ 26kts and 8nm @ 40kts, with an internal wirelength of 13.5nm and a 2.7nm wirereel on board the submarine. Although designed for use against submarines, it is effective against shipping, so it can now be targeted against surface targets at the firecontrol.

The preenable controls have the following functions. The Active and Passive presets set the acoustic mode of the torpedo when allowed to enable automatically, and the Snake and Circle buttons select the horizontal search pattern when the torpedo is allowed to enable automatically. The Floor, Ceiling, and Search Depth presets also select the three depth the torpedo can be set to run at while preenabled. This torpedo has two discrete speed settings, 26kts and 40kts. Select low speed mode by setting the preset speed to less than 30kts and the high speed mode by setting the torpedo preset speed to 30kts or more.

The weapon has an ASuW safety that can be disabled by setting the Ceiling at 20m or less.

The wireguided controls when preenabled are as follows. A first click of the preenable button either preenables the torpedo if enabled or does nothing if the torpedo is already preenabled. A second preenable click sends the torpedo to the preset Searchdepth, a third preenable click sends the torpedo to the preset Ceiling, and a fourth preenable click sends the torpedo to the preset Floor, and a fifth click sends the torpedo to the preset SearchDepth again, and starts the cycle over again.

The Enable button commands are as follows. A single enable click passiveenables the torpedo and sets it to low speed, using snake pattern. A second enable button click sets the torpedo to passive search in a circle pattern. A third enable button click sets the torpedo to maxspeed (40kts) and active enables the torpedo, directing the weapon to follow a snake pattern along the course set in the firecontrol panel (or the original course if it has not been manually changed). A fourth enable button click sets the torpedo to search in a circle pattern in active mode, and a fifth click sets the active snake search again, etc. (so, in order to go back to passive mode or back to passive snake, you have to preenable the torpedo again, once you get the timing of how fast you can hit the buttons, you can do all necessary commands in about 10 seconds or less).

The TEST-71 family also has a variable depth search function that is similar to the USET-80. If the Floor and the Ceiling are set further than 60m apart, the torpedo will default to oscillate between these two depths when enabled. As with the USET-80, if the Ceiling is used to disable the ASuW Safety, the torpedo will search between the Floor and the SearchDepth. If the set search depths are closer than 60m, then the torpedo will default to searchdepth.

When the torpedo is on the wire, and the user can choose which presets are used in the vertical search pattern. If the torpedo is ordered to be at searchdepth when enabled or enabled for the first time at launchdepth, the vertical search pattern will be the default as described above (floor to ceiling, unless ceiling is 20m or less, in which case the pattern is floor to searchdepth). If the torpedo is ordered to be at the ceiling depth, the search pattern is searchdepth to ceiling (regardless of whether the ceiling is used for the ASuW safety). If the torpedo is set to be at its preset Floor when the torpedo is enabled, the search pattern will be set between the floor and the preset searchdepth. If at any time, the selected depths are 60m or closer, the torpedo will search only at the depth set by the player using the depth control commands.

When on the wire, this weapon has an additional 25% chance of avoiding decoys on top of the 50% failure rate for the decoys themselves, to simulate the ability of the operators on board the submarine to coordinate torpedo control with ownship sensors. The weapon has no additional anti-decoy bonus when off the wire.

Now, for the TEST-71ME-NK!

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Here are the fully implimented controls of the TEST-71ME-NK, carried by the Chinese Kilo Improved hulls.

The TEST-71ME-NK has operational parameters equal to the TEST-71ME with the addition of a wakehoming mode effective against surface targets that can be enabled at the presets. When the wakehoming mode is disengaged, the controls and operation are identical to the TEST-71ME.

To enable Wakehoming mode, set the ceiling at 10m or less. If you allow the torpedo to run on its own with no input at all, the torpedo will enable as a straightrunning wakehomer and go to its maxspeed of 40kts and the preset ceiling depth. If you enable the torpedo on the wire using the enable button without changing the running depth of the weapon, the torpedo will also enable as a wakehomer and go to maxspeed and the preset ceiling depth (there are no further enable button commands in wakehoming mode).

You can cancel the wakehoming enable by hitting a single preenable button click before the torpedo enables. If you do this, the torpedo will enable at the runtoenable distance using the preset values for pattern and acoustic mode and use the searchdepth and floor as its vertical search parameters. If you send the torpedo to search depth or floor using the preenable buttons, the torpedo will enable using the floor and searchdepth as its vertical parameters, using the same enable commands as the TEST-71ME. To reenable wakehoming mode, send the torpedo to the preset ceiling depth, and the torpedo will once again function as a wakehomer.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Here are the implimented features of the UGST. :)

The UGST is a chemical fuel torpedo capable of 27nm @ 35kts and 15nm @ 50kts. The weapon has an active/passive seeker with wakehoming capability and a maximum passive speed of 40kts and max depth of 735m. The torpedo is capable of maintaing 40kts at its maximum depth, and 45kts at 320m, with maximum speed varying linearly with depth (effectively the torpedo can run at max speed to 100m or so). The weapon has an internal wirelength of 13.5nm and a 2.7nm reel on board the submarine.

The controls of the UGST are the same as the TEST-71ME-NK with the following exceptions.

On the preset menu, the actual preenable speed at launch reflects the throttle set by the Speed preset. So, the torpedo before enabling will travel at whatever speed you set minus the speed decrease from depth... this is done to allow players to still select long range shots when deep, otherwise, the throttle would always be set too high if the torpedo was launched deep, so it would go too fast if brought shallow again and use too much fuel for a low speed setting. Also, when passiveenabled, the torpedo will maintain 40kts regardless of depth, and if preenabled again, the throttle will be set to maintain 40kts at whatever depth the weapon is running at at the time it is preenabled. If the torpedo is active enabled, it will set its throttle to get maximum speed for its current depth.

Also, the Snake and Circle search pattern toggle now select for two different Search Modes, that I will describe below. The ability to automatically enable the torpedo in circle mode has been disabled, however, since the Enable button commands are the same as the TEST-71ME, you can still select CircleSearch on the wire; you can also preenable the torpedo to enable again later in Circle, and use it to program a circle reattack if the torpedo is currently homing on a target (the torpedo will stay in circle mode, unless you order it to do otherwise). The thought here is that the circle search mode in these torpedoes is only used (in the DW context) for reattacks...

The Snake preset selects for the following search pattern features. Unless the torpedo is set to run as a wakehomer, if it enables on its own, it will go to the preset searchdepth and run with a 15 degree snake to either direction (that is what is set in the doctrine, the functional snake is a bit bigger, although the relative values and how they match up to the sensor modelling are the important aspects of the search patterns) and no vertical oscillation. If the torpedo is sent to a specific depth and enabled at that depth, the torpedo will stay at that depth when searching. So, in short, the Snake preset disables the vertical search pattern and sets a narrow snake pattern. The Enable button commands are the same as the TEST family.

The Circle preset selects for the exact same controls and operation as the TEST-71ME-NK in all respects, including the vertical search pattern and 30 degree snake pattern to either side. In other words, the Circle preset enables the vertical search patterns and selects for a wide snake pattern.

While operating on the wire, the UGST has a 75% chance of successfully avoiding homing on countermeasures on top of the database determined 50% failure rate for decoys to simulate the ability of ownship operators to resteer the torpedo using data from ownship sensors and torpedo feedback. When off the wire, the UGST retains an additional 50% ability to successfully avoid decoys on top of the database determined 50%.

Now, for the ADCAP, which I want to make significantly different in character than the Russian wireguided torpedoes, so I have to start from the template on this one and really consider what features work well in what places. Then the Wakehomers, which I hope will be really gentle work in term of difficulty when compared to the WGT's.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

One other thing I should mention about the UGST. Regardless of what Search Mode the torpedo is set at in the presets, if you use the wire to Enable the torpedo and set the Circle Search Pattern manually while the torpedo is running, the torpedo will oscillate in depth using the common helix controls. The idea is that, since the user is not concerned with the torpedo moving farther in circle search mode, only loiter time, there is no drawback to having the vertical search in circle mode, even if it is very steep, because it should make it harder to decoy or evade with a higher angle of attack on target.

So in other words, the selection of depth oscillation is for the snake mode only. Or, to put it yet another way, selecting the Snake Preset selects a Snake pattern with 15 degree snake and no depth oscillation, and the Circle Preset selects a snake pattern with a 30 degree snake as well as depth oscillation.

Don't worry, I'll find a good way to document this stuff for the releases. :up:

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Oh, one more neat feature common to all the wireguided torpedoes...

When the torpedo is running on the wire, an automatic Ownship Safety is activated to prevent the torpedo from homing on ownship. So, when a torpedo is running on the wire, ownship is safe from being tracked by its own weapons. If the torpedoes do detect ownship, the firecontrol will automatically override the homing procedures for the weapon.

Of course, if the wire breaks, you are on your own... without ownship feedback, the torpedo doesn't know you from the next large metallic object in the water and it will home on ownship. :)

This feature may become significant if players begin to engage at close range and we actually begin to get situations where ships pass each other trying to get position and avoid weapons. If this is the case, then you have to be very sure you've got plenty of wire before you turn the weapon around, since generally speaking, its very hard to decoy the WG weapons.

Cheers,
David

PS The ADCAP is in final design, and I hope to complete work today.

[LuftWolf]

Before I go into the ADCAP info, here is one more feature universal to all Wireguided torpedoes, concerning the RunToEnable distance. If the weapons are allowed to run on their own without being manually enabled, the RunToEnable distance functions as it always has, except that it is now measured by the true running distance of the weapon rather than the radius from launchpoint: when the weapon reaches that distance it will enable. With the new wirecontrol commands, the RunToEnable distance also has another feature. If you manually enable the torpedo before it reaches its runtoenable, and you preenable the torpedo past the runtoenable distance, if the wire breaks, the torpedo will instantly reenable again on its own. This is an added feature in case you are maneovering the torpedo you want to reenable and misjudge the running distance, so you aren't left with a dumb running torpedo for the rest of its distance. You can disable this feature as well. If you have preenabled the torpedo before its runtoenable distance, and its runtoenable distance is longer than the length of the wire, or it is shorter and the wire breaks because of ownship maneovering rather than the wire exceeding its wire length, then the torpedo will not enable again until it reaches its preset runtoenable distance regardless of the status of the wire. So, practically, you can set a torpedo to have a runtoenable distance past its maximum range, and make the torpedo operate solely on the wire. If the wire is lost when it is preenabled, then the torpedo will runout preenabled.

So, in short, you can use the RunToEnable distance to control the way the torpedo behaves when you have been controlling the weapon manually and the wire breaks while the torpedo has been preenabled.

So, I have finished the ADCAP doctrine and here are its implimented features. :)

The MK48 ADCAP is a chemical fuel torpedo capable of 27nm @ 40kts and 18nm @ 60+kts. The weapon has an active/passive seeker with under-keel fusing capability and a maximum passive speed of 45kts and max depth of 3000ft. The torpedo is capable of sustaining 62kts down to 175ft, 51kts at 1000ft, 45kts at 2000ft, and 40kts at maximum depth, with the speeds decreasing linearly from 57kts below 175ft. The torpedo has an internal wirelength of 10nm and a 5nm reel on board the submarine. When the torpedo is running on the wire, it has a 90% chance of successfully avoiding decoys on top of the 50% database failure rate for decoys and when off the wire, retains a 75% chance of avoiding decoys on top of the 50% database failure rate (these values can be changed as the result of playtesting, but are probably fairly close to the truth of the matter).

The preset commands have the following function. The Floor, SearchDepth, and Ceiling are the three depths selectable using the Preenable Button when the torpedo is on the wire. The Active and Passive buttons select the acoustic mode the torpedo will enable in if allowed to enable on its own, and the Speed sets the throttle for the weapon on launch (so the actual speed will be throttle minus the speedloss because of depth). The Snake and Circle buttons select two different Searchmodes I will explain below. Additionally, the Ceiling sets two additional functions. If the Ceiling is set at 60ft or above, it will disable the ASuW Safety. Additionally, if the Ceiling is set at exactly 100ft AND the Acoustic Mode is set in Active the ASuW Safety will be disabled and the torpedo will be set in Under-Keel Mode.

So, there are three distinct modes: Snake Preset, Circle Preset, and Under-Keel Mode (set by the combination of 100ft ceiling + Active Homing Mode).

In Snake Preset and Circle Preset modes, the SearchDepth has one additional function. If the SearchDepth is set by the user to be within 25ft +/- of the Layer depth at the point the torpedo is launched, it will enable a Layer-Riding feature on the weapon. If this feature is enabled, and the weapon is ordered to be at SearchDepth when the torpedo is enabled (either automatically, since the torpedo will automatically go to searchdepth if it has not been previously enabled and reaches its preset runtoenable distance, or on the wire) the weapon oscillate in depth between 150ft below the layer and 150ft above the layer for the duration of its enabled run, in addition to whatever horizontal search pattern is set.

The preenable-button depth commands are universal to all modes. A single preenable click preenables the torpedo if it is enabled or does nothing. A second preenable click will send the torpedo to searchdepth. A third preenable click will send the torpedo to its preset ceiling, a fourth click will send the torpedo to its preset floor and a fifth click will send the torpedo to searchdepth and start the cycle over.

Also, the weapon will always be set to maintain maxpassive speed as well as it is able on passive enabling and set max throttle on active enabling.

The Circle Preset commands are as follows. If the torpedo is allowed to enable on its own, it will enable in the selected preset acoustic mode and travel as a straight runner. The manual Enable button commands have the following function: a single Enable click will passive enable the torpedo as a straight runner; a second enable click will set the torpedo to search in a circle; a third click will active enable the torpedo as a straight runner; a fourth click will set the torpedo to search in the circle pattern; a fifth click will set the torpedo back to active straight running mode and start the active straight/circle select cycle over again.

While the torpedo is homing on a target, you can use a combination of the Directional Controls and the Enable button to select in which direction you want the circle search pattern to be should the torpedo lose its track. If you set the Directional Control to be slightly to one side or the other of the course the torpedo is taking to the target, and then hit the Enable button to select the Circle search mode, if the torpedo loses track, the torpedo will turn to the side you selected using the directional controls. This allows the user to program directional reattacks in real-time that can be utilized by the weapon even if the wire should break during pursuit. Of course, if this should happen, the user has no way of ordering the torpedo back to straight search once the reattack begins, since all search pattern changes have to ordered manually, but if you miss your target twice, and the torpedo is off the wire, then it makes little difference, since just about any direction for the torpedo to go at that point is arbitrary.

The Snake Preset commands are as follows. If the torpedo is allowed to enable on its own, the torpedo will enable in the preset acoustic mode and go to searchdepth with a 20 degree snake to either side. The Enable button commands are as follows: a single Enable button click will passiveenable the torpedo with a 20 degree snake; a second Enable button click will set the torpedo to search with a 40 degree snake; a third click will active enable the torpedo and set the weapon to search with a 20 degree snake; a fourth click will select for the 40 degree snake and a fifth click once again set the active search with the 20 degree snake and start the active cycle over again.

There is no circle reattack available in this mode. However, the combination of the Directional controls and the variable angle Snake, particularly the wide snake utilized in combination with the torpedo's passive mode, make an excellent alternative reattack against all manner of fleeing targets.

The Under-Keel Mode, selectable with the preset combination of setting the Ceiling equal to exactly 100ft and the Acoustic mode as Active, has the following operation. In this mode, the ADCAP is NOT effective against submerged targets and cannot be retasked after the weapon is fired (submarines on the surface count as valid targets). If the seeker should detect a submerged contact in this mode, it will *ignore* the contact. Decoy function is not effected in anyway and is consistent with other modes. Also, Under-Keel Fusing can only function using Active acoustics, so the weapon cannot not operate in passive mode when Under-Keel Mode is chosen. In addition, upon enabling, the weapons will always go to 100ft when searching and maintain this depth when homing (if the water depth is shallower than 100ft under the keel of the contact, then Under-Keel Mode cannot be used, unless you want to risk the weapon hitting the bottom).

If the weapon is allowed to enable on its own, the weapon will active enable and go to 100ft, with the search determined by the Snake and Circle Preset buttons (the only input they have when Under-Keel Mode is chosen): if Circle is chosen at preset, the torpedo will autoenable as a straightrunner; if Snake is chose at preset, the weapon will active enable with a 20 degree snake to either side. The Enable button commands in Under-Keel Mode are as follows, regardless of the Snake or Circle Preset chosen before launch: a single Enable button click active enables the weapon as a straight runner; a second Enable button click sets the torpedo to search with the 20 degree snake pattern; a third click sets the torpedo to search with the 40 degree snake pattern; a fourth click sets the torpedo to search in a circle and a fifth click sets the weapon back to search as a straightrunner and starts the cycle over again.

The Under-Keel Fusing on the ADCAP is capable of inflicting just under double the damage of standard contact or proximity fusing when the weapon is fired in this mode and detonates under a surface target.

I think that's it... :cool:

Cheers,
David

[Phullbrick]

forgive me if this was already asked before, but is there any chance to correct the "torpedo launch warning" message which can be heard whatever the distance is ? :o

ps : I'm looking forward for the new torpedoes :)

[LuftWolf]

This has already been corrected to some degree in the 1.03 engine... the TIW message is now dependant on acoustics.

So, if you are on the other side of a layer from the torpedo, you often will not get a TIW message until the torpedo is very close, or you cross on the other side of the layer.

I've taken care to vary the PSL of the torpedoes to try to match up their in-game sound level with real life values, although this data is practically not available. For example, I've made the DM2A4 very quite relative to say the ADCAP or APR-3, so this will definately effect TIW message range.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

If anyone wants to take a look at what I've got finished up to this point, send me a PM and I'll email you the latest files.

The only readme at this point is this forum and some brief notes about what still needs to be included in the email, but if you've been following along, everything should make sense.

So, if you want to take a look at all this in action, PM with your email and I'll send it you.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Thanks for all your hard work, LW, this looks like it will be a huge step up from stock DW or even previous mod versions! I'm looking forward to some testing.

[Driftwood]

Way to go LW! :up: So, is Lwami 4.0 ready for Prime Time now?

[LuftWolf]

Way to go LW! :up: So, is Lwami 4.0 ready for Prime Time now?

LWAMI4 is still a week and at least two playtests from being ready.

At this point, the Advanced Torpedo Mod is 95% completed, but this represents only one of the changes for LWAMI4. Once I finish the torpedoes, I'm going to be free to tackle the 25 or so other things on my list of things to change, THEN LWAMI4 will be ready for a final playtest, then once the documentation is done (a three day project minimum... depending on how many graphs and charts we decide to make) LWAMI4 can be released as an official distribution. :)

So, say two weeks or so.

Cheers,
David

[Driftwood]

Terriffic! Let me know if I can help!

[LuftWolf]

Well, I've finally finished the last player torpedo doctrines.

Here are the implimented features of the 53-65 variants.

The 53-65 is a hydrogen peroxide powered anti-ship wakehoming torpedo capable of 11.87nm @ 45kts and 8nm @ 55kts. The torpedo has a maximum operational depth of 200m, below which the torpedo will fail, however, its engine is unable to provide sufficient propulsion to move the weapon near that depth. The maximum speed of the weapon increases linearly from 0kts at 200m depth to 55kts at just under the surface.

The controls are as follows. The Floor sets the preenable depth of the weapon and the SearchDepth sets the depth the torpedo will move to after enabling. The Ceiling is automatically set to 3m regardless of preset. If the player sets a SearchDepth deeper than 10m, the SearchDepth will automatically be reset on launch to 10m. The Speed setting selects the thottle setting for the weapon for the duration of its run. This weapon cannot change its throttle setting after launch and has a minimum set speed of 45kts (so any value lower than 45kts on the firecontrol is reset as 45kts when fed to the torpedo on launch).

So, effectively, you can use the floor setting to run the torpedo out deep before enabling, however, keep in mind the torpedo has a very limited speed and range when used like this. This torpedo originally entered service around 1965, so its effective envelope is not great when used outside of its design intention.

Here are the implimented features of the 65-76 "Whale".

The 65-76 is a hydrogen peroxide powered anti-ship wakehoming torpedo capable of 52nm @ 30kts and 27nm @ 50kts. The torpedo has a maximum operational depth of 480m, below which the weapon will fail, with a maximum sustained speed of 7kts at max depth. The maximum speed of the weapon increases linearly from 7kts at 480m to 50kts just below the surface.

The controls are as follows. The Ceiling is always set at 3m regardless of the preset depth, the SearchDepth sets the depth at which the weapon will travel when it enables, and the Floor selects the preenable depth. The Speed setting selects the throttle setting of the weapon.

The weapon has two additional options selectable with the Acoustic Mode and Search Pattern buttons (still in the interface from the stock game where the 65cm torpedo is designed as a multipurpose wireguided torpedo...). If Passive Mode is selected at preset, the torpedo will maintain its preset throttle setting for the duration of its run, just like the 53-65; however, if Active Mode is selected, the torpedo will set Max throttle when it enables. If Snake search is selected, the torpedo will travel at its preset Floor depth until enabled at which time it will go to SearchDepth, just like the 53-65. If CircleSearch is selected the torpedo will travel at Floor depth with its max throttle speed set (regardless of the Active/Passive speed-up-on-enable selection) and then when it reaches 1/3 of its RunToEnable distance, it will pop up to the SearchDepth and set the throttle selected for by the preenable speed, and the torpedo will not enable until it reaches its RTE distance(at which time the selected enable speed selected for by the Active/Passive preset will be applied as usual).

This last feature allows the user to fire the torpedo under a layer for enough time to clear the datum while maintaining the ability to have a long range option with a lower speed setting, without making the torpedo move at 20kts while deep for the whole duration of its preenabled run. ;)

Ok, now for some database editing. :)

Cheers,
David

PS Anyone who has sent me a message about a Playtest and hasn't gotten one yet will get one as soon as I finish a few changes to make it all work nicely.

[LuftWolf]

Ah...

Ok, I've finished the Advanced Torpedo Mod. :D :rock:

(Minus the conversion of the torpedo sensors from hardcap to sensitivity limited, but the sensors cone geometry has been done for all torpedoes)

Now, I'm going to whip up some documentation, and the first official playtest of the new mod will be released (I'm not entirely sure how at this point with the CADC down :shifty: ).

Just to keep you guys updated on what else has to be done before LWAMI4 will be completely ready:

-Finish torpedo and UUV sensor modelling and final corrections to (AI) torpedo doctrines

-update SL parameters of all platforms, especially MAD, Active, Visual, (FCR) Radar SL's

-Add TIW message for underwater missile launches and make aircraft and helos detectable on sonar

-update all sonar profiles and sonar profile names

-fix the AI MH60 and helo dipping behavior (once and for all...)

-attempt to improve aircraft behavior, especially MAD prosecutions by adding a short range sensor capable of classifying on "overflies" (assuming this is the problem)

-raise the dipping alt of helos and install other features to limit helo crashing

-Add the Mk60 captor mine and fix the RBU's, UAV, and (if I feel very luck) the DSRV

-Add perscopes for AI submarines and the ability to see shalllow submarines to the *player* MH60 and P-3 autocrew lookouts

-Tune AI sensor performance to get behavior more closely tied to the human platforms and refine the non-operational depths of the AI TA's to prevent them from operating in water that is a bit deeper than currently

-update all AI evasion routines for the new torpedoes and to prevent grounding in submarines

-Add checks to necessary doctrines to 1) prevent fratricide 2) prevent death by evasion

-Add ballistic missiles and convert some Ohio's to SSGN's

-Add new missile sensors and flight profiles and update all Radar and FCR capabilities

-try to make database iceburgs solid... hmm... perhaps I can make them highly reactive in a manner that results in death... ;)

-add appropriate bearing error to player sonars, add a small rearward baffle for all the TA's, and restore range hardcap to SW WAA

-remove "guided" flag for the Hellfire to simulate operation of the L variant (Fire and Forget, allows multiple missile in the air at once, in this context)

-adjust turn radii of appropriate playable and non-playable submarine

-review all submarine launchers to make sure they properly reflect the capabilities of each class

-Add new non-playable platforms, weapons, sensors, etc...

I'll have the documentation and the LWAMI Playtest 1.00 distribution finished soon.

Cheers,
David

[Wilko]

Thats one fantastic list you got there ... thanks for your hard work :up:

[Phullbrick]

I'm just starting to work on a new mp campaign and I can't wait to see lwami jr birth :up:

[Bellman]

Great work David - it is much appreciated.:|\\

Only LwAmi will keep me plugged into DW in the future - and those torp controls are to die for !! :rock:

[XabbaRus]

Now, for the ADCAP, which I want to make significantly different in character than the Russian wireguided torpedoes, so I have to start from the template on this one and really consider what features work well in what places. Then the Wakehomers, which I hope will be really gentle work in term of difficulty when compared to the WGT's.

Luft are you making the ADCAPs different in nature for the sake of gameplay to differentiate them from the UGST and other OPFOR playable weapons or are you making them as close to how ADCAPs work in real life based on available non classified info?

I look forward to seeing the updates thoug.

[LuftWolf]

Now, for the ADCAP, which I want to make significantly different in character than the Russian wireguided torpedoes, so I have to start from the template on this one and really consider what features work well in what places. Then the Wakehomers, which I hope will be really gentle work in term of difficulty when compared to the WGT's.

Luft are you making the ADCAPs different in nature for the sake of gameplay to differentiate them from the UGST and other OPFOR playable weapons or are you making them as close to how ADCAPs work in real life based on available non classified info?

I look forward to seeing the updates thoug.

There is virtually no non-classified into on the wirefunctions of the ADCAP, and trying to fit what is known into a three-button interface control, when the actual firecontrols on an ADCAP equipped vessel has at least as many buttons as say my HDTV, is a pretty ridiculous thing to try. ;)

So, like everything else in DW, it is an abstraction that works in the world that DW creates on your computer.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I don't particularly care for the philosophy that says if it isn't written down somewhere exactly one way or another then it can't be in the game. These games are abstractions... to not make certain abstractions in one place and then do them in other places takes the game farther away from realism, not closer to it. In fact, it is this very lack of willingness to make these kind of calls on SCS's part that has lead to DW being half finished as a simulator.

So, I've never let reality get in the way of my imagination, but rather used it as a starting point and guide. Maybe I've done too much, but we'll see if my judgment is sound.

I'm working on the documentation this morning... I hope to have a file ready to go soon.

Cheers,
David

[XabbaRus]

OK I see where you are coming from. As far as how ADCAPs work in a realistic manner, maybe you can get some ideas from SCX. Thomas did a cracking job on them.

As long as the torpedos when off on their own work as they should do, I am happy with that. I probably would only make use of a couple of additions, such as under keel detonation.

A suggestion for making under the keel detonation work. Don't restrict it to just active, allow it to work with passive mode too.

Look forward to it though.

[LuftWolf]

OK I see where you are coming from. As far as how ADCAPs work in a realistic manner, maybe you can get some ideas from SCX. Thomas did a cracking job on them.

No offense to Thomas or SCX, but we are way beyond anything they have done with torpedoes. Our ADCAP doctrine is more than twice the size of the SCXIIC ADCAP doctrine, has over four times the variables, and is significantly more complex than anything in SCX.

It's just that we have yet to prove it works. :lol:

In terms of the UTK, I spent a bit of time thinking about this feature (that is to say, why not just double the ADCAP warhead and call it UTK detonations...), so I'm pretty happy about how it is now, but of course, if I get some good data, I'm happy to make the necessary changes.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Ok, well I've sent a working playtest version to a few people via email.

This version doesn't have any documentation, so I haven't posted it yet.

However, OneShot was nice enough to give me some FTP space on the new CADC server, so I'm going to work on some documenation tonight and then post the playtest distribution, and post all subsequent playtest versions so that everyone can take a look at the playtests as they are finished.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

I haven't had a chance to update the Playtest documentation so I've decided to post the current playtest to the new CADC server, courtesy of OneShot.

Here is the URL: www.commanders-academy.com/luftwolf/LWAMI4_Playtest_101_NoReadme.zip (http://www.commanders-academy.com/luftwolf/LWAMI4_Playtest_101_NoReadme.zip)

Let me know what you find. There will probably be a few more of these before LWAMI4 is finally released.

Everything in these playtests should either work, or not be implimented at all. Here is the email I included with the file for everyone I sent it to personally.


Hello!

Here is the latest playtest version, with the necessary corrections. All of the player weapons should now work as described on the forum.

All the AI weapons should work well except for the physics on the very fast torpedoes and, also, I haven't put their anti-decoy logic in.

Other than that, the only things that might be buggy are the helos and aircraft.

Everything else should work or hasn't been implimented, so test whatever you want, but focus on the torpedoes.

Also, don't forget about the UUV, the preenable button controls the depth and the enable button controls the speed. Active mode is not available on the UUV because of hardcoded bugs in DW 1.03. The SLAM-ER ASuW capability has been enabled as well for the P-3, with the last waypoint being the Enable point if set over water or the target point if set over land.

None of the advanced sensor modelling has been done, but this will fit seamlessly with the controls, hopefully. The sensor work is the next step of the project (after proper playtest documenation of course ;-) ).

Thanks a lot for testing LWAMI4!

Cheers,
David

PS Please share this file with as many people as you like, but make sure you let them know to find the instructions for the torpedoes on the forum, and that I will have a good readme very soon.


Thanks!

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Just a quick update... Amizaur is still working feverishly on the torpedo sensors and I've started to do some things for LWAMI4 not related to torpedoes, like the helos and aircraft and missile-launch TIW messages.

I hope to have a documented playtest with several new features enabled available for download in the next few days. :)

Cheers,
David

[Dr.Sid]

What about the wires ? Still unbreakable ? What about giving them simple speed limit ? like 20kts or so.

[LuftWolf]

Oh the wires break. :)

In this version of the playtest, the wires are only set to break based on the absolute distance traveled by the torpedoes, or the distance travelled by ownship from the launch point (calculated as radius, as this is the only way to this for the firing ship).

Based on discussion with naval weps experts on this board, it was determined that the wire-clearance procedures now used on submarines firing wireguided torpedoes makes it very unlikely that ownship maneovering will break a wire in this day and age.

Cheers,
David

[whiskey111]

I have downloaded LWAMI4 few days ago and this is fantastic thing :up: But there were some bugs in torpedos trigers. It didn't explode in the first hit on ship and ASuW SAFE mode didn't work corectly.
Tell me please if these all things works corectly now in LWAMI4 101 ?

[LuftWolf]

Well, you didn't download LWAMI4 because work on that was suspended temporarily due to changes anticipated in the DW engine in an upcoming 1.04 patch that require structural changes to the mod.

What you are using in the LWAMI4 Advanced Torpedo Control Playtest... which is a Alpha version of the ATC mod that is going to be included in LWAMI4.

"Alpha" in this case means that after a few furious months of work, I released it when I couldn't think of any more code that appeared to be necessary... with the idea that through the playtesting process, the inevitable bugs would be found and gameplay issues addressed.

This whole process has been in stasis since I decided I needed to stop working on the mod as a whole.

I had hoped to repackage the first playtest with proper documentation this week, although my RL has necessitated that this hasn't happened to this point. :)

I've received several bug reports although most of them lack good specific details... can you provide as much context as you can and complete discriptions of your malfunctions... especially methods that can be used to consistently repeat the undesired torpedo behavior (eg. "bugs").

Thanks, I need all of your help!

I'll really try to get the proper documentation out for this, but I need to go over ALL my notes to make sure I get a complete list of changes for the three or four different versions I have privately and the one available publicaly, so this mod, that involves several thousands of individual changes to the database and doctrine, doesn't just become one big buggy mess...

Cheers,
David

[Driftwood]

Changes in the DW Engine??? That's an interesting development. Sure hope we get to see 1.04 in time for Christmas!:up:

[whiskey111]

Ok. LuftWolf, below is description of situation in wchich I have tested your mod. I have made a simple mission with some platforms:
1*Borys Chilikin surface ship class,
1*Akula - player- (I don't remember type - I think it was improved type 1),
1*Los Angeles-player-(688i) class.

1) Borys Chilikin was at 0kts speed and Akula (0kts) was exactly below Borys Chilikin on about 100m (320ft). LA shot MK48 adcap torpedo (ASuW SAFE ON: ceiling deeper than 40ft, deep 300ft, floor 1000ft) at AKULA, but when torpedo enabled it locked on surface ship (Borys Chilikin). I have repeated this test (with my friend) few times (5,6 times) but result in most cases was similar (without one case when
torpedo locked on Akula sub).

2) LA attacked Akula (which was running away from torpedo at max speed, deep more than 100ft) by MK48 adcap torpedo with ASuW SAFE ON (the same settings like above)-there was Borys Chilikin class surface ship but away from action area: torpedo locked on Akula by active search and went for the sub. When adcap was near Akula it should exploded and destroy sub, but it didn't. Torpedo went through the sub . Then adcap turned back to Akula, locked on in active search, hit and exploded. Akula was destroyed. I have repeated this test few times but result was mostly the same.

3) I have made this test with ASuW SAFE OFF (ceiling shalower than 40ft, deep 100ft, floor 1000ft) fired at Borys Chilikin surface ship (0kts) by adcap torpedo in active search and in most cases torpedo exploded at first time but there were situations in wchich torpedo exploded at second hit on surface ship.

4) And one last thing: I have noticed that when Akula was at 0kts -adcap (ASuW SAFE ON) hit and exploded at the first time, but there were exceptions to the rule.

Ok, this is all what I remember.

[Molon Labe]

If the Ceiling is set at 60ft or above, it will disable the ASuW Safety.
(ASuW SAFE ON: ceiling deeper than 40ft, deep 300ft, floor 1000ft)
So, if you set your ceiling between 41 and 60, your ASuW safety was disabled.

[whiskey111]

"Selecting Circle in the presets chooses dedicated ASW mode. In this mode the torpedo defaults to having it's ASuW Safety on, meaning all targets above 40ft in depth will be ignored (ALL surface ships regardless of size and surfaced submarines) by the seeker, but this can be disabled by setting a ceiling depth 40ft or shallower, meaning the torpedo will home on all targets it detects" - I have read this on first page. Did it change to 60ft ?

And what about problem of torpedo's triger (don't explode at first time) ? Even if I set something wrong torpedo must explode at first time, isn't it ?

[Molon Labe]

Ah yes, apparently there has been a change. There is a newer and more thourough explanation of the ADCAP controls on page 3.

[Driftwood]

Ah yes, apparently there has been a change. There is a newer and more thourough explanation of the ADCAP controls on page 3.

Page 3???? Page 3 of what? :D I've obviously got the wrong reference. My "Lwami 4 Final Player torpedo Control Design" document only has two pages. :hmm: Obviously I'm using something that's outdated. Probably why I am not getting consistent performance on my fish.

[Molon Labe]

Ah yes, apparently there has been a change. There is a newer and more thourough explanation of the ADCAP controls on page 3.
Page 3???? Page 3 of what? :D I've obviously got the wrong reference. My "Lwami 4 Final Player torpedo Control Design" document only has two pages. :hmm: Obviously I'm using something that's outdated. Probably why I am not getting consistent performance on my fish.

Page 3 of this thread.

[LuftWolf]

"Lwami 4 Final Player torpedo Control Design" document

I did NOT write any kind of document about the final torpedo controls, so this hasn't come from me. Perhaps you are talking about the readme that came with the original ATC demo I released in May or so? :hmm:

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

The final ATC design starts here in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94688&page=3 .

These are the most complete explanations available now.

Cheers,
David

[Driftwood]

My apologies David. :oops: :doh: You're correct, it was the readme file.