Favorite aspect of DW

[Sea Demon]

I would just like to know what everybody's favorite aspect of DW is. Lots of possibilities. So what's the major thing that appeals to you in this game?

Mine is the addition of a surface warship

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Next,

[suBB]

Welp…

1.. stock DW /deathmatch

Offered nothing different than 688i or subcommand, at most scx. Yes air, surface and an extra kilo were added, but nothing compared to the variety scx offered. Combined with the same ole deathmatch game play as we did in scx, made it less attractive – so I didn’t bother with DW. Also for that reason I lost contact with a lot of old friends who were fed up with the same crap basically. I also had a ****y joystick as I prefer manual flight so that’s another reason why I didn’t bother. Around that time I started making mission based maps for subcommand scx but never made it out of beta.

2. LWAMI DW / MP mission objective maps

Sheesh.. where should I begin explaining how awesome LWAMI is!!! LWAMI is really the only reason why I got back into DW. Still I find deathmatch unappealing and pointless, but DW also spawned MP mission objective maps, and for that I’m thankful. Since then I purchased a l33t joystick/throttle at a reasonable cost, now I’m really starting to appreciate the air units(mainly helo) that much more. Multi-station is a definite plus, but I’ve yet to experience that in full capacity on any platform. In regards to DW map editing - im speechless - as lwami offers an incredible infastructure to work with on that level.

I would say my favorite aspect of DW is the potential it has to be an incredible gaming experience, both in single play and online. And I think mods like LWAMI and MP mission objective maps are tapping into that 'unseen' potential.

[Kurushio]

Modern naval warfare across the globe....:rock:

[SeaQueen]

So what's the major thing that appeals to you in this game?


I like learning to do TMA, interpretting grams, experimenting with different torpedo spreads, and experimenting with different tactics. My other favorite naval wargame, Harpoon, tends to abstract a lot. The assumption is that you're the alpha bravo, and your little people handle a lot of things. DW fills in the blanks.

[Deadeye313]

I love the ability to actualy WORK for a kill than just use trigger reflexes (though I play BF2 for hours on end when the germans are asleep and not many Americans play DW).

I also love the cooperation during multiplayer games. Having a nice well round, experienced team can make a game fun and exciting; even when you're just looking at dials and grams.:ping:

DW is one of those games everyone should play but few do because they can't rely on trigger reflexes.

[LuftWolf]

modding :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

[Kurushio]

Can I add a few criticisms? It takes longer to learn some platforms then sometimes it seems worth, considering the missions are on a tactical scale (thus relatively short). Of course, I'm talking about the stock game leaving out mods and multiplayer.

Another criticism: Playing "advanced" without Autocrew is overwhelming and unrealistic. How is one person expected to do everything on a ship/sub considering you have a whole team of people to do it in real life? So playing "advanced" is ludicrous, in my opinion.

But the again it has a lot of pluses.

[goldorak]

Another criticism: Playing "advanced" without Autocrew is overwhelming and unrealistic. How is one person expected to do everything on a ship/sub considering you have a whole team of people to do it in real life? So playing "advanced" is ludicrous, in my opinion.


you're wrong on this issue, one player can man all the stations except maybe tma on the frigate.
Now a problem arisies in multiplayer because most players want to use auto tma and that puts to a certain disadvantage those who use manual tma.
If all players were obliged to use manual stations (except tma on frigate) i think the mp games would be much more interesting.

[LoBlo]

My favorite aspect of DW is the AI AAW. Its fun to play against a heavily armed AI that can defend itself against your missile attacks with its own defense systems. It makes hunting and chosing your attacks more challenging. Bravo SCS :D

My least favorite aspect of DW is the lack of solid aircraft behavior. Its hard to script the aircraft in the game to behave logically. Sonabuoy searches aren't conducted well by the AI and it has a hard time responding to obvious threats appropriately...:shifty:

Oh, and I agree with LW. The fact that SCS has constructed the doctrine format for AI logic is awesome. Thanks SCS. :up: Using DWEdit to tweak stats to your liking is very enjoyable as well.:yep:

[Kapitan]

Favorite aspect of dangerous waters has to be the ability to creep under ice and not be noticed by "forign" submarines, take them out and go home or moniter them what ever the mission intails.

[suBB]

So playing "advanced" is ludicrous, in my opinion.
I have to disagree. Yes you normally have a crew running your platform, but I know some divers who love a challenge and appreciate advanced gameplay – sadly they are nowhere to be found these days except for a handful of them.

Also its what you are comfortable with. I.E. autocrew TMA just turns into a boring experience – all the work is done for you. Autocrew TMA also ruins over 70% of dw together. I would rather miss a dive of autocrew and wait for more players on advanced settings then play autocrew.

I guess after you been doing manual TMA for what seems like the beginning of time, or anything else for that matter, you become used to it. And if you think about it, using voice commands you really only need about 2 suites, w/o voice then yes it could be a pain.

Kurushio, are you using voice commands?

I love the ability to actualy WORK for a kill
O yes I totally agree with that. And when you can get a manual solution within 400 yrds error + at about 20nm on a submerged contact + w/o uuvs + LWAMI + in high contact environment = it makes you appreciate the work put forth behind that much more. But there is more WORK to do my friend..

On the subject of submarines:

1. After localization, will you choose to engage from range - assume a low risk situation while facing greater chance of your target escaping?

2. Optimum firing range of weapons where targets chances of escape are less than firing from range at the cost of an increase of risk?

3. Or will you choose to intercept and try for baffles - reducing your targets chance of escape in the same time placing your boat in a high risk situation.

4. Bios and neuts are off limits

5. Evasion while tracking – well that’s self explanatory.

Again, more work involved – dw is full of work! lol

I guess if I had to choose ONE favorite it would have to be manual TMA.

I think advanced settings will not only make you a better diver, but it will also reveal aspects of the game left out by default(with autocrew on) as well as offer an incredible learning experience.

[suBB]

Favorite aspect of dangerous waters has to be the ability to creep under ice and not be noticed by "forign" submarines, take them out and go home or moniter them what ever the mission intails.
Kapitan im glad you posted this - because I'm torn between what map I should make next. It will be a MP + mission objective map involving the akula, and so far it was for a photo/intel gathering/return to safety op. If you don't mind, I might need to pick your brain in the future on what seems practical to do under the ice regarding mission objectives.

What I had in mind earlier for a MO_4MP for ice ops was an akula/transist/infiltration while ffg, helo, P3 prevents akula from reaching goal point.

OR

akula/interception of a 688/tlam strike/reach safe distance

OR

akula/interception of a seawolf/transit/infiltration while AI RU surface prevents seawolf from reaching goal point.

HECK.. why not ALL THE ABOVE :lol:

anyways.. just make a mental note that when the time comes ill be looking for you for suggestions for ice ops on a MP level

thanks :up:

[Kapitan]

for one there isnt many photo oppotunities under ice, unless your staging it in or around the kara sea on novaya zemlya which was a prime nuclear weapons testing ground, and is still used as a weapons testing ground.

Your mission could be for the americans, moniter a fleet exercise get as much intel as you can blah blah and return to saftey with out being detected.

Catch is that this is so seacret the russians have orders to sink any vessel that comes near with no hesitation, so if your spotted your going to have to run fast!

[Kurushio]

suBB: aha...that's the missing piece in the puzzle, then. Voice commands. I forgot about that... No, reason I don't use it is because I don't have a mic....and I just bought new headphones and I could've got one with a mic.:oops: I somehow sensed I needed a mic when I was in the store, but forgot why....I'll go with my instincts next time. :damn:

[suBB]

for one there isnt many photo oppotunities under ice, unless your staging it in or around the kara sea on novaya zemlya which was a prime nuclear weapons testing ground, and is still used as a weapons testing ground.

Your mission could be for the americans, moniter a fleet exercise get as much intel as you can blah blah and return to saftey with out being detected.

Catch is that this is so seacret the russians have orders to sink any vessel that comes near with no hesitation, so if your spotted your going to have to run fast!

I figured as much(photo ops under ice). Again now is a bad time for me to go into specifics, but like i said when the time comes we can work out the details. :up:

Ya that was the idea for the photo/intel gathering op of testing ground but i wanted the akula doing the picture taking or save it for a ice op of sorts. Also the specific details haven't been established yet(platform types) I've been busy fixing bugs in beta here and there, that at the time, i put the thought out there as a 'note to self' basically. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93879

Speaking of photo/intel gathering.. molon claims its been done before? I'm aware of this in singleplayer but in MP? I guess I haven't played that mission yet.. Moreover, its one thing to take photos/get intel, get detected but still win, but its totally different when returning to safety comes into play.. I'll have to ask him for more details on that.

[JamesT73J]

There's a completely different game in DW, dependant on your platform. Coming from SC, I've tended to stick to the submarines, purely because that's what I know, and as long as I think I've got things to learn on them, I'll keep with them. I've dabbled with the FFG, and I had to completely change the way I thought about the game - it's too easy to try and play like a sub that can't dive; i.e. head in the sonar shack and TMA board all the time.

Subb's comments interested me. Multiplay is a hoot in DW, but I only played stock, and found that often one had to play very defensively as subsurface platforms: Often it was not a matter of if you'd be detected, but when. People still haven't quite got distances down either. I can tell when an MP map is authored by someone unfamiliar with subs - opposing units might start 40nm apart, consequently the subs will never get into the fight within the usual 2 hr timespan of a game.

[suBB]

suBB: aha...that's the missing piece in the puzzle, then. Voice commands. I forgot about that... No, reason I don't use it is because I don't have a mic....and I just bought new headphones and I could've got one with a mic.:oops: I somehow sensed I needed a mic when I was in the store, but forgot why....I'll go with my instincts next time. :damn:
HAHAHA.. man.. i MUST recommend this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002XIX0E/102-5751729-6488945?v=glance&n=172282

It's a work of art :up:

It also has ventilation on the sides so your ears stay cool, plus its very comfortable.

It's so light that you won't even notice its there, seriously.

Because of it, I don't even use pc speakers anymore!

Plus i can turn the volume up as loud as i want to w/o hearing it from the ole lady :rotfl:

Yes voice commands is a must!!!

I'd rather take a small amont of time to launch CMs, fire off a snap, give order for evasion course and change depth.. then spend about a minute doing the same thing. last minute evasive maneuvers call for it someimes, where a matter of seconds makes a world of difference.

But hey, return that mic you purchased, and buy the one i showed you, it's a package deal(headset/mic)

[Nexus7]

I would just like to know what everybody's favorite aspect of DW is. Lots of possibilities. So what's the major thing that appeals to you in this game?



Played rarely that way but, multiplay where all subs are "multimanned".

[OneShot]

My favourite aspect of DW is certainly the addition of the air plattforms, especially the P-3C Orion. They have been quite easy to learn, but are hard to master and the big bonus in my eyes ... no TMA I have to care about! Some might say Airplattforms are no challenge ... and thats right depending on your way of playing. If you try to aquire your opponent by pure passive means first and only revert to active in the final moments of an attack to get a good position fix then its tough ... on the other hand if you load up with DICASS to the hilt and drop active all around then its quite simple to find a sub, but then who plays like that?

But there are some things I don't like ... at all! For starters the non-detectable masts ... I can live with those pesky SAMs on the sub, no prob - IF the masts would be detectable, because then some tactics would simply be stupid (on behalf of the sub drivers) and using MAD in a MP game would actually not be a suicide maneuver as it is now (depending on your opponent). There are some other things, but no show stoppers - well to me.

Still, I truly like this game and will continue to play it (which reminds me I have to install it on the Laptop again).

[goldorak]

But there are some things I don't like ... at all! For starters the non-detectable masts ... I can live with those pesky SAMs on the sub, no prob - IF the masts would be detectable, because then some tactics would simply be stupid (on behalf of the sub drivers) and using MAD in a MP game would actually not be a suicide maneuver as it is now (depending on your opponent).

Agree 100% with you.
It seems that Luftwolf in the next iteration of the mod has reduced a lot the effectiveness of the sam's.
Short of not having detecteble masts this is the biggest change which makes shhoting down air platforms much more of a suicide attack for the subs. :up:

[swimsalot]

Playing a mp map, with different platforms, with everyone using Ventrillo, is a great experience.
The teamwork involved between surface/sub/air to protect a convoy from a team of sneaky Akulas and Kilos is awesome!
I think this type of play is the closest to "realism" in a sim we can find out there right now.
And I think it's pretty damn fun.

[SeaQueen]

Another criticism: Playing "advanced" without Autocrew is overwhelming and unrealistic. How is one person expected to do everything on a ship/sub considering you have a whole team of people to do it in real life? So playing "advanced" is ludicrous, in my opinion.


If you want to whine about that, then you'd also have to point out that everything in DW is vastly simplified. You don't NEED as many people to do a lot of stuff.

If you want it assumed that your little people handle the details, play Harpoon. If you want to fuss with towed array lengths, and wind speeds play DW. It's a sailor's game, arrrrr! :arrgh!:

[LuftWolf]

Agree 100% with you.
It seems that Luftwolf in the next iteration of the mod has reduced a lot the effectiveness of the sam's.
Short of not having detecteble masts this is the biggest change which makes shhoting down air platforms much more of a suicide attack for the subs. :up:

I've given the AI lookout's on the P-3 and MH60 the ability to see submarines near the surface and automatically call them out as visual tracks and mark them, the same as they do for surface ships. AI aircraft will also be given a similar fix. This, combined with the increased effectiveness of the flares, should give submarine players a lot of pause before trying to engage with the SAM, there is a really good chance you will be seen before you can even get to the surface, depending on the conditions.

In regards to the autocrew issue, I find I have just enough to do playing with only the Active Intercept, ESM, and Radar autocrews. When I am playing this way, I feel I have the most control and situational awareness. Working for the solutions yourself and walking through the steps of the process gives you a lot more options when it actually comes to making a tactical decision, as opposed to being fed the specific info out of context.

I think the problem is that a lot of missions are "action packed" or simply not good missions... even in the vast majority of the multiplayer games I player, I find I have more than enough time to work the sonar and do my weapon presets and make a bearing change or pop to PD depth or something... in other words, there is generally more than enough time to do all the things I need to do before the shooting starts and all the hard work pays off. In the heat of the battle, the last thing I want to be worrying about is the TPK of that neutral at 20nm and is it a freighter or cargo ship?... submarine warfare is about working steadily when you can move slowly so when you have to move as fast as you simply can act with the best knowledge available and not have to reason out your situation in media res.

[jasonbirder]

My favourite aspect of DW is certainly the addition of the air plattforms, especially the P-3C Orion. They have been quite easy to learn, but are hard to master and the big bonus in my eyes ... no TMA I have to care about! Some might say Airplattforms are no challenge ... and thats right depending on your way of playing

I'm finding the Air platforms a great intro into the game...not having played Sub Command before I got Dangerous Waters I was quite literally overwhemed when I first started the game...
Having said that the sense of satisfaction I got the first time I tracked down a sub, got a Mad run in then dropped on it and sank it without the Autocrew doing it all for me was unbvelievable! Eveen if it was only a noisy old Han class!!!
So my favorite part so far are the air platforms and i'd say they were an excellent addition - both as an option in their own right and also to help ease new players into the game - if i'd had to take on a submarine and do my own TMA from the off I might have got frustrated and given up on it...as it is I can learn in bite sized chunks...getting more addicted as I go!