SHIII Commander – weird message

[Skubber]

I recently installed the latest Commander 2.5, and everything is working great, but....

Everytime I load up a new game I get the message from the crew: "starboard diesel engine destroyed, sir!"

The engine isn't destroyed. There's no damage. I just get this message.
And then afterwards the game operates normally.

I get the message if I begin a new patrol from port, or if I load up a game mid-patrol from a save.

What do you think is going on?

(Followed commander installation instructions.) Did a rollback. Uninstalled old Commmander, installed new version.)

[mike_espo]

I got the same message. I looked in the Damage/Crew screen and indeed, my stbd diesel was destroyed. Did not have no contact with enemy..... :o :huh:

Is it some new random damage?? If so, Cool :|\

[Herr Karl]

The strange message I recieve is when I'm submerged, and I get "not enough crew in diese engine compartment".

:hmm:

Funny that we are having strange or irrelevant messages about the same compartment. I'm sure JS will know whats up.

[JScones]

If you look at the latest SH3Cmdr changes, you'll see that there were no changes made that could result in this error. Indeed SH3Cmdr has never "tinkered" with any sub compartment.

Unless, it is somehow related to the Thermal Layers addition... So, can you pls, as a test, rename the SH3Cmdr "Randomised events.cfg" file to anything else and try again?

BTW, I assume that you have not installed Hemisent's Sabotage Mod nor have you made any other changes to the SH3Cmdr cfg files? If so, I'd remove those first before testing again.

And, what other mods do you have installed? I'd be curious if there was a common theme (it's how we identified the repeating patrol grid problem which had been attributed as an SH3Cmdr bug and which turned out to be nothing related to SH3Cmdr).

What happens if you just load the game the "conventional" way, and not via SH3Cmdr?

@Herr Karl: The "not enough crew" message is definitely not SH3Cmdr related. What mods are you running?

Funny that we are having strange or irrelevant messages about the same compartment. I'm sure JS will know whats up.
Well, no, apart from assuring users that the stock SH3Cmdr makes *no* adjustments to this aspect of the game. Because of the way SH3Cmdr works, it has quite often had the finger pointed at it for problems which in the end are totally unrelated to it. I suspect that, unless the problem is somehow related to Hemisent's Thermal Layers addition (and I think that is grasping at straws), the problem rests with another one of the recently released mods that *does* tinker with the sub compartments, hence the need to know what mods affected users are running.

[Skubber]

I'm still pretty sure it is Commander that is causing this.

Diagnosis:

- Rolled back Commander, then restarted the game without it. No weird message.
- Renamed "Randomized events" to "Randomized events off"
Started with Commander. The weird message reappeared. I don't think this file is causing the problem.
- The ONLY thing I changed to my setup (other than gramophone files) before this error occurred was upgrading to the latest release of Commander.

This message appears every time I start using Commander, so I can verify it occurs every time under 2.5.


I am running IUb 1.01 (Haven't got around to the newer version yet.) IUb 1.01 commands patch. Heavy harbor traffic option.

I have also made a number of "tweaks" - but as I said, these were all running fine under the earlier version of commander.

--- I looked at the Commander files, and I agree, this is odd. I don't see anything in there that should be causing this, and yet it really appears to be the case that one of the files in the new Commander release is responsible.

[Skubber]

Another thought: Could it be that Commander rewrote something that the IUb 1.01 commands patch was meant to fix?

If so, that would mean I just need to be running with the latest IUb.

[JScones]

Well, only one other possibility - rename Miscellaneous.cfg and try again. Perhaps the crush depth changes are affecting it (now we are really scraping the barrel).

If it still fails, I can't possibly see how the cause could be with SH3Cmdr. Apart from the Thermal Layers and Crush Depth changes, R2.5 makes no gameplay changes that R2.4 didn't make. Besides, this wouldn't be the first time that SH3Cmdr has copped the blame for something that had nothing to do with it, even though circumstances may have suggested otherwise (ie NULL/repeating patrol grids and crew config errors which, despite some users very quickly pointing the finger strongly at SH3Cmdr, were all traced back to other specific mods).

[HW3]

Just for information purposes, I am running SHIII Commander 2.5 and it is working just fine. I am running GW/NYGM TW/Enhanced Unified Campaign, Fubar's Sub Crew, and a couple of other small mods.

[JScones]

Thanks HW3, that actually does help. I would be keen to know what mods players with the problem are running. It's how we've tracked down the cause of problems before. So far we've 1 IUB1.01 with problems, 1 GW/TW without.

[HW3]

I just checked to make sure what all mods I have in besides the ones I already posted. I have the NYGM TW Mod v1.03 Terrain Add-In, Tankeriv's sea floor mod for 64MB cards, and Contact Marker C2 Merchant.

[U-Bones]

Everytime I have seen equipment destroyed at startup, it has been part of the games platform/date/availability sanity check. In other words, are you sure that that particular piece of equipment is available for that particular submarine, on that particular date ? If either the sub or the equipment say no, the game will destroy the equipment. This may or may not be the case here, but...

[JScones]

Everytime I have seen equipment destroyed at startup, it has been part of the games platform/date/availability sanity check. In other words, are you sure that that particular piece of equipment is available for that particular submarine, on that particular date ? If either the sub or the equipment say no, the game will destroy the equipment. This may or may not be the case here, but...
That's actually good to know. Thanks.

[thyro]

I recently installed the latest Commander 2.5, and everything is working great, but....

Everytime I load up a new game I get the message from the crew: "starboard diesel engine destroyed, sir!"

The engine isn't destroyed. There's no damage. I just get this message.
And then afterwards the game operates normally.

I get the message if I begin a new patrol from port, or if I load up a game mid-patrol from a save.

What do you think is going on?

(Followed commander installation instructions.) Did a rollback. Uninstalled old Commmander, installed new version.)

:yep:

I reported this feature on the release annuncement thread ( http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50953 ), my post is the 14th in that list.

My post end-up ignored by the author of SH3commander.

I know that someone is writing a new mod to sabotage the subs everytime that a mission starts and once I saw this message I though that that sabotage mod was included on SH3commander.

Anyway, after replay few mission starts I found that dispite that message and destroyed equipment showing up in the "Crew/Damage Management" the equipment is fully operational.

Losing diesel engines is just one of the messages, but then radar, sonar, etc will follow in other missions or game reloads... so it seem a bit random... (again I wonder if sabotage mod was included in SH3commander... and if it was included then is not working properly)


This feature was introduced by SH3commander (in my case I've installed it on top of GW).

Despite that anoying message SH3commander and GW seem to coexist happy.

[JScones]

I reported this feature on the release annuncement thread ( http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50953 ), my post is the 14th in that list.

My post end-up ignored by the author of SH3commander.
Yes, your well detailed and researched comments were most helpful.

I know that someone is writing a new mod to sabotage the subs everytime that a mission starts and once I saw this message I though that that sabotage mod was included on SH3commander.

Anyway, after replay few mission starts I found that dispite that message and destroyed equipment showing up in the "Crew/Damage Management" the equipment is fully operational.

Losing diesel engines is just one of the messages, but then radar, sonar, etc will follow in other missions or game reloads... so it seem a bit random... (again I wonder if sabotage mod was included in SH3commander... and if it was included then is not working properly)
There is no sabotage mod in SH3Cmdr. The only likely change left is the crush depth mod - and I have outlined how to test this above.

This feature was introduced by SH3commander (in my case I've installed it on top of GW).
:roll: Sigh. I love fault finding experts that thoroughly research before jumping to conclusions - did you try the crush depth test I posted above? Have you considered U-Bones comments above? Have you tried with the correct u-boat availability dates option turned on and with it turned off? Does it happen everytime? Sometimes? With every sub type? With only some sub types? Have you actually undertaken *any* conclusive tests to pinpoint the problem? If you want my attention, you have to help diagnose and provide some leads! This problem hasn't been identified by me or at least five others in testing...so help out, rather than waste time!

@Skubber: I'm all ears if you find any leads.

[thyro]

There is no sabotage mod in SH3Cmdr. The only likely change left, which I have mentioned above, is to remove the crush depth changes from "Miscellaneous.cfg".

This feature was introduced by SH3commander (in my case I've installed it on top of GW).
:roll: Sigh. I love fault finding experts that thoroughly research before jumping to conclusions - did you try the crush depth test I posted above? Have you considered U-Bones comments above? Have you tried with the correct u-boat availability dates option turned on and with it turned off? Does it happen everytime? Sometimes? With every sub type? With only some sub types? Have you actually undertaken *any* conclusive tests to pinpoint the problem? If you want my attention, you have to help diagnose and provide some leads! This problem hasn't been identified by me or at least five others in testing...so help out, rather than blamestorm!


m8 ... No blamestorm thinking from this side... just reporting an issue which I though that would be useful. :)

Odd it seem random which lead to believe that sabotage mod was introduced (thanks for your confirmation that is not the case).

Well I'm not a SH3 expert and far from it. I like play this game and I got no knowledge if its inside...

Have you considered U-Bones comments above?
Yes! But I don't know how to check that. I'm using GW timeline and I haven't made any changes to files.

With every sub type? With only some sub types?
The subs that I used and had this issues were VIIC, IXA and now IXD. I cant say from earlier subs because I didn't use SH3C at that time. The issue seem to start after SH3C installation for me from VIIC.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, other missleading messages are radar, hydrophone and the last one is sonar destroyed. These last ones are happening at random on IXD2. So isn't just diesel engines.

Does it happen everytime?
this allways ocurr when I start a new mission or I load the game. And the message can vary from diesel engine to one of the aboves, even when I load the same saved game (seem random message).

did you try the crush depth test I posted above?
I suppose that your are mentioning miscellaneous.cfg file. Well I just did a search under data directory and I cant't find it.

So I now feel tempted to reinstall SH3C to see if that makes a change.

as note if this helps at all: I'm using GW with SH3C on top and no manual changes to files either other mods installed.

Cheers

[JScones]

did you try the crush depth test I posted above?
I suppose that your are mentioning miscellaneous.cfg file. Well I just did a search under data directory and I cant't find it.
Delete/rename \SH3 Commander\Cfg\Miscellaneous.cfg and see what happens. I'm hoping that it is the cause, otherwise I have no idea. :hmm:

[thyro]

did you try the crush depth test I posted above?
I suppose that your are mentioning miscellaneous.cfg file. Well I just did a search under data directory and I cant't find it.
Delete/rename \SH3 Commander\Cfg\Miscellaneous.cfg and see what happens. I'm hoping that it is the cause, otherwise I have no idea. :hmm:

:oops: gee I though that file was under game/data directory...

(correction to my previous post: IXB instead of IXA)

Anyway, I've saw your reference and I've renamed this file from miscellaneous.cfg to miscellaneous_cfg.

1st attempt

Launch SH3 from its original startup link (not through commander) then load my save (coz I'm in the middle of my 21st mission) and got "CE: sonar destroyed sir".

2nd attempt

Launch SH3 from SH3commander, then I load the same saved game, and got "CE: sonar destroyed sir"

sorry, not good news :( might be something else that is affecting or the saves are already compromised with the issue.


Cheers

[Herr Karl]

@Herr Karl: The "not enough crew" message is definitely not SH3Cmdr related. What mods are you running?

Funny that we are having strange or irrelevant messages about the same compartment. I'm sure JS will know whats up.
Well, no, apart from assuring users that the stock SH3Cmdr makes *no* adjustments to this aspect of the game. Because of the way SH3Cmdr works, it has quite often had the finger pointed at it for problems which in the end are totally unrelated to it. I suspect that, unless the problem is somehow related to Hemisent's Thermal Layers addition (and I think that is grasping at straws), the problem rests with another one of the recently released mods that *does* tinker with the sub compartments, hence the need to know what mods affected users are running.

I'm running GW and I just did another patrol with the same message. This was without SH3 Commander 2.5. FYI

Thanks for the response Jason!

[JScones]

Well, I'm closing this off at this stage. I am not convinced there is a problem with SH3Cmdr: only three, maybe four, people have raised this issue out of literally 100's of users; it still happens when the only two new R2.5 gameplay changes are removed from SH3Cmdr; and it happens when SH3Cmdr is not even running.

My guess is that it is mod-conflict related - a lot of new mods have been released lately. Perhaps there is a common thread amongst those with the problem. If we can crack that, it will help.

Anyway, if someone can conclusively pinpoint it to an SH3Cmdr file, I'll revisit. Unfortunately, no matter what I do, I cannot replicate the problem and I'm running SH3 with GW.

[Kaleun]

Hi,

I don't know if this helps but i never had this problem with SH3CMDR2.5 and GW so i think that might be why you can't recreate it - the issue only started on my install when i installed NYGM tonnage mod and the unified campaign file over GW. i think that it might have something to do withe NYGM tonnage or the unified campaign not CMDR

Kaleun

[thyro]

On my game, the only thing that changed was installing SH3Commander 2.5 on top of GW.

I don't have anyother mod installed, either have manually changed files.

Anyway I've just removed SH3Commander from my system after rolling back its files. I want to see what happens once I start my 22nd mission without SH3C.

[thyro]

On my game, the only thing that changed was installing SH3Commander 2.5 on top of GW.

I don't have anyother mod installed, either have manually changed files.

Anyway I've just removed SH3Commander from my system after rolling back its files. I want to see what happens once I start my 22nd mission without SH3C.

FYI

Nothing destroyed when I started my 22nd mission.

(SH3Commander 2.5 not installed)

[JScones]

What atmosphere mod are you guys running? I've just found some dodgy entries in at least one of GW's Sensors.dat files, which are part of the Atmosphere inclusions. Sensors.dat could be a prime suspect with the kind of errors you guys are getting.

Kpt Lehmann: for reference check at least the default installed Sensors.dat, BalkonGerat_type21 entries, which are mostly in scientific notation. I haven't checked the others yet.

[thyro]

16km range env ( :oops: Im not certain if is this that you are looking for)

I've now installed SH3C2.5 on top of GW again to see if the damage issue ocurr again... I'll get back to this post in next few minutes to report (once the game starts)

[JScones]

Light or dark?

[JScones]

Actually, it doesn't matter. They all have the same (strange) values. Maybe Kpt Lehmann can shed some light?

My theory being, in the absence of anything else, that these values are interfering with only certain pieces of equipment (ie an upgrade perhaps), hence why some people are getting the problem and others aren't.

[thyro]

On my game, the only thing that changed was installing SH3Commander 2.5 on top of GW.

I don't have anyother mod installed, either have manually changed files.

Anyway I've just removed SH3Commander from my system after rolling back its files. I want to see what happens once I start my 22nd mission without SH3C.

FYI

Nothing destroyed when I started my 22nd mission.

(SH3Commander 2.5 not installed)

I've reninstalled SH3C2.5 on top of GW again

Started SH3C2.5 then launched SH3 from it, followed by loading the save-game (in the base before the mission)

I noticed two things:

1) My 22nd mission (without SH3C) started at 11/April/43. With SH3C the same 22nd mission started at 8/May/43.

2) Once I put my feet in the sub, I received as 1st message "CE: Sonar is destroyed, sir"

:(

The GW additional atmosphere mod that I'm using is "Atmosphere mod V2 16km Light"

[JonZ]

I had the sonar destroyed message on stock game.

This was with the IX sub on France pens.

[JScones]

Yeah, I'm sure I've read about the issue before, even recently, but definitely last year. There's definitely a combination of events causing it, and the seed is in one of the default (or updated) game files.

[JScones]

:hmm: So thyro, you are running stock SH3 just with GW, right? Just like me.

So, pls zip up the entire affected career folder (including save games) and, size permitting, email it to me. I'll have a look on my machine.

[magwr]

I have upgraded from SH3 commander 2.4 to 2.5 and am now also getting this gremlin in the works. So far only my stb desil is 'destroyed'. I have been running SH3 via Sub Cmdr 2.4 successful with no glitches at all. Until the upgrade.

My Mods are as follows:

GW ver 1.0
Tonnage War Mod ver 1.03
extended unified campaign [GW/NYGM]
original rudder guage
1500 bearing overlay
alternative dial faces
aces high res uniform mod
imrpoved insignia mod
enhanced nav map plotting tools
atomsphere mod v2 16km light
SHIII NYGM crew managment
GW-IOU update
JCW uboat faces

I installed 2.5 as per the instructions. I have now gone back to 2.4 but the problem still occurs.

I have been running several careers at different time periods and with different boats, all my careers and boat types are so effected.

hope this bit of info on mods being used might help.

hope the gremlins can be erradicated.

have always loved SH3 commnander, so hope the issues can be resolved. :D

[JScones]

Let's go back a step - is anything actually destroyed? Or is it just a message that appears?

Does it just happen when loading save games, or also when starting "in base"? Does it happen with new, freshly started careers? Have you installed *any* of your mods, including SH3Cmdr whilst mid-patrol?

Sorry, but if you guys want whatever it is fixed, you really need to do some thorough testing. Circumstantial evidence may sometimes be nothing more than a red herring...

Anyway, some suggestions...

FULLY remove SH3Cmdr (ie delete ALL files and folders EXCEPT SH3Cmdr.ini), then reinstall SH3Cmdr R2.5.

WITH SH3 v1.4b ONLY installed (ie NO mods or changes):
1. Start a new career *without* SH3Cmdr. Save mid-patrol. Exit SH3. Reload SH3 direct and reload the save game. Note any messages.
2. Start a new career *without* SH3Cmdr. Save mid-patrol. Exit SH3. Reload career via SH3Cmdr and reload the save game. Note any messages.
3. Start a new career *with* SH3Cmdr. Save mid-patrol. Exit SH3. Reload career via SH3Cmdr and reload the save game. Note any messages.
4. Start a new career *with* SH3Cmdr. Save mid-patrol. Exit SH3. Reload SH3 direct and reload the save game. Note any messages.
5. If any of teh above results in the message, delete \SH3 Commander\Cfg\Miscellaneous.cfg and \SH3 Commander\Cfg\Randomised Events.cfg. Repeat tests 2 to 4.

**Don't recycle careers - start fresh ones for each test iteration. For consistency, start all careers with the same settings, including flotilla, start date and sub type - notate these settings.**

REPEAT the full test cycle WITH GW installed and note the results. If the results are still inconclusive, START a NEW career WITH ONLY SH3 v1.4b installed, start and finish a patrol. INSTALL GW, load the career, start and save mid-patrol. Exit SH3. Reload SH3 direct and reload the save game and note any messages.

Keep testing different years, flotillas and subs until you identify problems. Then note what's different and continue to hone in on the problem.

In the absence of a magic wand, this is prolly the only way to get to the bottom of the problem. Post back your results.

[JScones]

Kpt Lehmann: Perhaps unrelated, but I was just searching through the archives and found a similar message way back last year about repeating "rudder destroyed" messages. Anyhoo, the problem was traced back to zones.cfg. I just had a look at zones.cfg in relation to this issue, and noticed that the [DieselEngine1] HitPoints is 180 yet the [DieselEngine2] HitPoints is 130. I am *assuming* that 1 is port and 2 is starboard. Why the difference? Could it have any bearing here?

Anyway, I see the problem (or one similar) has also existed prior to R2.5... http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48999&highlight=destroyed I've searched the forum archive and excluding the known sonar destroyed message for the IXD2, there's a number of posts from people since around mid-last year (before SH3Cmdr) with similar "x destroyed" messages on patrol startup. No solutions though.

Does IUB and GW share any files/settings? It may be coincidence, but the problems are shared by users of both mods.

[thyro]

@ JScones - How to email the file to you? (sorry the noob question) :oops:

I'd probably load it into my by weby and give you a link to it...


Now regarding your question.

Let's go back a step - is anything actually destroyed? Or is it just a message that appears?

In my case, it appears not to affect the equipment at all.

This glitch is just that missleading message (which also shows on "F7" that item X is destroyed - in red). However everything seem to work fine, stb diesel engine, radar (and now with IXD2) the sonar... like I said in one of my previous posts... its just anoyance than a problem.

BTW is there a way to clear the sub from upgrades (while in the base)?

So to start a new mission without any upgrade... then reload and try the same but reassigning new upgrades? to see if this issue continue to appear? Thanks

Cheers

[JScones]

@ JScones - How to email the file to you? (sorry the noob question) :oops:

I'd probably load it into my by weby and give you a link to it...
That's fine.

This glitch is just that missleading message (which also shows on "F7" that item X is destroyed - in red). However everything seem to work fine, stb diesel engine, radar (and now with IXD2) the sonar... like I said in one of my previous posts... its just anoyance than a problem.
The sonar destroyed message on the IXD2 is a well known SH3 bug. It is NOT SH3Cmdr or mod related. The radar error has also come up before - apparently it's to do with the placement of the radar on the boat, but it still works. It's the second most common example I found when I just did my forum search. The stb diesel message, well that seems like the new one.

The other common thread I found through my search was that the problem more likely occurs with upgrades (for example the Nibelung sonar on the VIIB and schnorkel fitted radar on the type XXI). Have you upgraded your equipment, especially the diesel engines or radar? If so, perhaps downgrading in SH3 may help. Anyway, here's some earlier analysis... http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=36387&highlight=sonar+destroyed+ixd2

[gouldjg]

I have yet to experience anything except the usual rudder damaged repeat so am at a loss.

I popped the hp of rudders up to 1000 cos I did not want to hear it as much. I still think it comes though so I suspect hardcode issue.

I will look at the sub.zon files as I remember Jungman reporting weird issues when we played with them but I think this was only hp and armour levels.

Maybe it is time to re-visit the sub model but I would hate it if this was not related to the faults reported. Mind you I am currently re visisting everything so will try and set a new one up based on new knowledge.

The sub zones may need checking over and comparing to the original.

I have tried to warn about setting things to destructable or playing with this and that as I had problems when I did this. I will check the ships, planes and subs to see if any obvious mishaps have happened.

There have been some adjustments to the zones.cfg that have not been done by myself. It is time for a proof reading session

Personally I would be suprised if it had anything to do with the damage model as modded cos I am not getting the issues.

Have patience,

I will check my side but I am away for 3 days so this may take some time.

[thyro]

@ JScones - email(s) sent :)

Now, regarding your last post, about sonar issue.

What am about to write would probably backup what you mention.

After I've read your post, I removed SH3C2.5 from my system again, after rolling back SH3 files (using SH3C option)

I wanted to replicate my previous sucesseful test (that I post its results this morning), which were:

Starting SH3, loading the game (while in the base) and not getting the "sonar destroyed" error message on my IXD2.


Now the results are:

1st attempt (without SH3C installed) got "sonar destroyed" :hmm:

2nd attempt (also without SH3C installed) nothing was destroyed :doh:

Oh! well I'm now confused and tired of this. :damn:

[dize]

ve started a career in gw with a XIc/40 from bordeaux. everytime the game starts off im getting a strabord engine destroyed message, and its actualy marked as destroyed in the damage control screen. it dosnt seem to have influence on my boats perforamance tho. is it me or is this a bug?
is this a known issue? i have to say that i never played with a XIc/40 before.

im using gw + unified camp + latest sh3 cmd. i had 2.4 sh3cmd before, and deinstalled it before i put up 2.5 in it.

[gouldjg]

So are people getting these messages in vanilla games with no mods at all?

[mike_espo]

This is something definately with SH3 Commander 2.5. Before, never got this message: now, only when I play a scenario with type IX. Does not happen all the time, but I get the message, and in crew management/DC window, the stbd diesel is marked destroyed. But is not really destroyed.

I have RuB 1.45z, Btty mod, NYGM crew management mod, and IXD2 torp fix. I was running 2.4 and all was OK.

Maybe something with random files :hmm: I did go back and change the crush depths of all boats and the upper/lower limits. Also changed the time DDs search after losing contact......

[JScones]

This is something definately with SH3 Commander 2.5. Before, never got this message: now, only when I play a scenario with type IX. Does not happen all the time, but I get the message, and in crew management/DC window, the stbd diesel is marked destroyed. But is not really destroyed.

I have RuB 1.45z, Btty mod, NYGM crew management mod, and IXD2 torp fix. I was running 2.4 and all was OK.

Maybe something with random files :hmm: I did go back and change the crush depths of all boats and the upper/lower limits. Also changed the time DDs search after losing contact......
:damn: :damn: :damn: Have you actually read any of this thread??

[JScones]

So are people getting these messages in vanilla games with no mods at all?
The link I included in one of my posts above suggest that "x destroyed" messages are prevalent in stock SH3. I found others too that suggest the same.

[JScones]

@ JScones - email(s) sent :)

Now, regarding your last post, about sonar issue.

What am about to write would probably backup what you mention.

After I've read your post, I removed SH3C2.5 from my system again, after rolling back SH3 files (using SH3C option)

I wanted to replicate my previous sucesseful test (that I post its results this morning), which were:

Starting SH3, loading the game (while in the base) and not getting the "sonar destroyed" error message on my IXD2.


Now the results are:

1st attempt (without SH3C installed) got "sonar destroyed" :hmm:

2nd attempt (also without SH3C installed) nothing was destroyed :doh:

Oh! well I'm now confused and tired of this. :damn:
As I said, the sonar destroyed message for the IXD2 is a well known SH3 bug - been there since day 1. Not related to SH3Cmdr and not fixable by SH3Cmdr. More here http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48560&highlight=sonar+destroyed (last few posts on page 1) although a forum search will find *many* discussions on the matter dating back to March last year. You'll also see it mentioned on the known SH3 bugs list.

The radar destroyed message is also not SH3Cmdr - it occurs because of poor placement of the radar. Again, not SH3Cmdr related, not fixable by SH3Cmdr and discussed many times on this forum. Such topic are here http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46439&highlight=sonar+destroyed and http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37062&highlight=radar+destroyed

You'll also get various equipment destroyed messages if you start an IXD2 or XXI in a subpen - the equipment is too big for the pen and gets destroyed. Another known bug.

I am not interested in these already identified SH3 bugs.

You must understand that as these bugs are in the core SH3 they will also be apparent via SH3Cmdr. As you have already determined, they occur randomly. Anyway, if you are still convinced that they are related to SH3Cmdr, search the forum archives: "sonar destroyed"- all terms. FYI, SH3Cmdr did not exist at all until July last year, and even then was quite crude compared to now.

Anyway, that only leaves the stb engine destroyed message. That's all I'm interested in. On this topic, the last few posts seem to relate it to the IX. Are we talking IXB, IXC, or IXC/40? What upgrades do users have? Does anyone get the stb engine destroyed message with any other sub type? If it is just IXC related, I may have a tweak that you can try.

[mike_espo]

Yes... :-? You said in one response that vanilla version was getting message... I NEVER got the destroyed message before loading SH Commander 2.5 :stare:

Just trying to help.....

[VonHelsching]

Just two wild shot in the dark ideas:

a) What if there is a corrupted zones.cfg with the starboard engine having zero hit points.
b) What if changes in the basic.cfg by GW in availability of engine upgrades either before they are supposed to exist or forced as default engines to the boat.

BTW the sonar destroyed in the IX boats and the radar destroyed in the XXIs are stock game bugs.

Best,

VonHelsching

[JScones]

On a hunch I have made some minor adjustments to the IXC and IXC/40 entries in the SH3Cmdr Crush Depth mod. If you are running an IXC or IXC/40 career, replace the current values in "Miscellaneous.cfg" with:

IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275

and see what happens. I haven't changed the other subtype values as I think the problem is linked to the IXC and IXC/40.

I've never really paid much attention to these values as they were given to me as part of the mod inclusion, but if the stb engine destroyed problem is related to SH3Cmdr, this change may help. Note though, that even if the error goes away, all this has done is bandaid it. Someone who understands the game, such as Jason, will need to review the game's damage models or whatever to determine why the stb engine gets the attention. My guess is something to do with the differing hitpoints values in zones.cfg (180 v 130). But anyway, one step at a time...I could be waaay off here...

[Skubber]

Just a note on my first post. I had originally said in error that I was getting the engine destroyed message with no actual damage.

But the starboard diesel is marked as destroyed, although it does not affect ship performance. This is consistent with what others are reporting.

Don't know if that helps or not ...

[Skubber]

By the way, JScones, Commander is perhaps the single best mod in existance,
you are an amazing modder,
and your responses and support in these forums are beyond amazing.

Just for the record.

Now, back to the issue ...

While I am running an IXC in my current campaign, your "band aid" suggestion to the Miscellaneous.cfg file did not work in my case. The problem persists.

If I did not mention, I am running IUB 1.01 (heavy HT option, clear water option). No other mods.

You said something earlier in the thread about repeat patrol grids ... null patrol grids ... and I am getting some variability in the appearance of the stb engine error when I try to input my own patrol grid in Commander. (that is, I don't get the error sometimes.)

I will play around with this and see if I can figure out a pattern to what makes the message go away, and what makes it appear.

[JScones]

Now, back to the issue ...

While I am running an IXC in my current campaign, your "band aid" suggestion to the Miscellaneous.cfg file did not work in my case. The problem persists.
Did you test on a new patrol, or on a current mid-patrol save game? If the latter, then I *think* that once the message is in the save file, it's there until the patrol finishes. You (ie all with the problem) may want to try starting a few *new* IXC careers with both sets of values (ie original and ones posted above) and see if there is a difference in the number of occurances. Or complete the current patrol and see what happens at the start of the next, and when reloading the *next* saved mid-patrol.

You said something earlier in the thread about repeat patrol grids ... null patrol grids ... and I am getting some variability in the appearance of the stb engine error when I try to input my own patrol grid in Commander. (that is, I don't get the error sometimes.)
Yes, these other problems are all side effects of the HT/Milk Cow mod. Could the engine damaged message be related to the same mod? :hmm: Users with the problem seem to be running either GW or IUB - both contain the HT/Milk Cow mod by default.

I will play around with this and see if I can figure out a pattern to what makes the message go away, and what makes it appear.
Thanks.

[Beery]

Just noticed this thread. Given the history of bug reports with SH3 Commander I tend to be a bit less willing to believe there could be a problem. Also, given my knowledge of how the program works and what files it adjusts, it just seems inconceivable to me that this could be caused by SH3 Commander. There is very VERY VERY little chance that such a problem can possibly be caused by SH3 Commander. I'd say the likelihood of this being a problem in SH3 Commander is about the same as the chances of me winning the lottery this week (and I don't play the lottery). ;)

99.9% of all problems that have, in the past, been laid at SH3 Commander's door have been caused by other mods, or by the standard game itself, or by people misusing SH3 Commander. The other .1% were found and fixed by us before anyone noticed. Hell, IIRC we've only had a single verifiable bug with the mod in the 12 months since we started the project. In that time we've had countless posts saying "This bug MUST be caused by SH3 Commander because it goes away when SH3 Commander is uninstalled". ALL of these bugs, ALL OF THEM, were found to be completely unrelated to SH3 Commander, and ALL were caused by the standard game, other mods or user error.

Trust me, it's just not going to be an SH3 Commander problem. If you're uninstalling SH3 Commander and the problem goes away, then it's either a coincidence or you're uninstalling SH3 Commander wrongly and taking out a file from another mod.

[mike_espo]

On a hunch I have made some minor adjustments to the IXC and IXC/40 entries in the SH3Cmdr Crush Depth mod. If you are running an IXC or IXC/40 career, replace the current values in "Miscellaneous.cfg" with:

IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275

and see what happens. I haven't changed the other subtype values as I think the problem is linked to the IXC and IXC/40.

This Worked! :up: No more erroneous message. Thanks. :D

[Beery]

Hehe, I guess I spoke too soon. :oops:

Ouch! LOL.

Hey, does that mean I'm likely to win the lottery this week?

[JonZ]

Depth damage settings.. that make sense to me.

Perhaps something to learn to fix the sonar destroyed message bug in Vanilla SH3.

[JScones]

Hey, does that mean I'm likely to win the lottery this week?
No, not yet ;)

My fix was really just an intuitive test - what it did was what I hoped it would do - bandaid the problem (you know Beery, like we've done with SH3Cmdr to overcome SH3 bugs countless times before). Underpinning this though is a fundamental problem relating to the stb diesel engine in one of the game files, either introduced by a mod, or inherent in the original game. Like throwing a coat of paint on a dodgy wall, it will just be a matter of time before it appears again in another guise. As I've said before, SH3Cmdr does NOT play with damage models or boat components - other mods do.

Anyway, the advantage of what we've observed here is that perhaps we can apply these learnings to the stock game bugs, ie particularly the sonar destroyed one. I've developed some theories on that one over the last few days too, but I have yet to test them.

I will still state categorically that whilst SH3Cmdr undoubtedly *highlighted* the bug, it is not the underlying *cause* of the bug. As I keep saying, remember all the other issues over the past 12 months which were attributed to SH3Cmdr, because the common thread was all users had SH3Cmdr? Well, as Beery said, not ONE of them ended up linked back to SH3Cmdr...it's just not that kind of application. That is, the changes it makes are harmless periphery changes, not core gameplay changes.

[Beery]

I will still state categorically that whilst SH3Cmdr undoubtedly *highlighted* the bug, it is not the underlying *cause* of the bug...

Hehe, I stand corrected again. This is starting to become a bad habit, LOL.

So I guess it's looking like it might be the same old story again - as with the fatigue issue we found a while back - sloppy programming by SH3's original programmers. :88)

[magwr]

Just checking i've got the right "Miscellaneous.cfg" file. I haven't got the SH3Cmdr Crush Depth mod. But i've found a "Miscellaneous.cfg" file in the following folder:

SH3 sub commander/Cfg

in that file i have the following values under a heading:
[CRUSH DEPTH]

IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|x2C43|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|x2C43|275

Is this the one to change?

Also, how is it possible to get SH3 to add the medals/qualifications that you can apply in the Sub Commander crew managment window?

Thanks, just love sub commander.

[JScones]

in that file i have the following values under a heading:
[CRUSH DEPTH]

IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|x2C43|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|x2C43|275

Is this the one to change?
Yep.

Also, how is it possible to get SH3 to add the medals/qualifications that you can apply in the Sub Commander crew managment window?
Sorry, I don't understand your question.

[magwr]

thanks, re the file to change.:up:

re SH3 cmdr medals etc.

I have SH3 Cmdr open and i click on 'click for available actions'

this gives me the drop down menu of 3 options. i select manage crew and then another window opens with a heading of crew u68[in this case] and a list of the crew on the left and bottom right is a display with medals etc. I have asigned qualifications & medals to my various crew members by draging and droping and then clicking assign.

when i have created a crew list from this window the qualifications/medals i have assigned all show up.

However, when i load my career via SH3 cmdr and go to the crew [F7] in SH3 and look for the qualifications/ medals i have assigned to them the only ones that show up are the ones given to them in SH3 only. Hence i wondered if there was a way to get the SH3 cmdr ones to be acknowledged by SH3?

Nigel :D

[JScones]

Are you mid-patrol when you make the changes? If not, are you in base *before* your next patrol (ie you have not deleted any save points)?

Also, have you read the SH3Cmdr FAQ.html file? There could be any reason for your problem.

You really just need to make sure that you are doing everything that you are supposed to be doing, when you are supposed to be doing it. Then the quals/medals/badges you award via SH3Cmdr will automatically show up in SH3.

[magwr]

problem resolved, altough i only do changes when my career is in base, i have always rolled back SH3 cmdr prior to any changes regardless.

This time i didn't, added medals etc, launched my career, checked my crew [F7] and bingo the medals etc show up :D :up:

thanks

[Skubber]

I did some additional testing.

Just to confirm, a clean install of SHIII and the 1.4b patch, using commander, produces the engine destroyed error...

And the "band aid" in the miscellaneus config file seems to fix it.

[JScones]

Thanks Skubber. The reasoning behind the error message I'll leave to a damage expert to resolve, but if the band-aid fixes it 100%, that's great for now. The changed settings will be in the next SH3Cmdr release.

Now let us hear no more of the error...

[Salvadoreno]

Was this ever resolved?

[JScones]

Well, my suggested fix made the error "go away", but beyond that I don't know. I left it with the modders to play with...

As the problem disappears with the fix, I suspect looking any further is not a priority at this point, what with all the (somewhat more important) activity going on in the various mod camps. ;)

[Seminole]

I just had this problem pop up as I upgraded to an IXC.:down:


I read through the replies and there seems to be a fix for it in there.....somewhere.:hmm:


Dogged if I can pinpoint it though.:shifty: :nope: :oops:



Would some kindly soul please tell just what the fix is?.....Thanks!

[zzsteven]

Quote " On a hunch I have made some minor adjustments to the IXC and IXC/40 entries in the SH3Cmdr Crush Depth mod. If you are running an IXC or IXC/40 career, replace the current values in "Miscellaneous.cfg" with:

IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|x3007|275

and see what happens. I haven't changed the other subtype values as I think the problem is linked to the IXC and IXC/40." End quote

zz

[Seminole]

Thank-you kindly soul :sunny: :up:


It worked!