Question about NYGM

[ParaB]

Finally found the time to start a new carreer in 1939 using the NYGM mod. But on my 1st trip I've encountered something I consider a problem:

I torpedoed a tug boat. Hit midships with a torpedo set to 3m with a contact pistol. Consider me surprised when the tug boat stayed afloat after this hit. We're talking about a 1000ts boat. I waited two hours, but not only did the little ship NOT sink, no, it continued its voyage at full speed... :hmm:

Ok, so I set up a second attack. Again a fine hit a bit in front of the bridge. Again a contact fuse, 300kg of explosives detonate in a giant volcano of fire and water and the little tugboat...keeps swimming. Now, that's TWO perfect torpedo hits on one of the smallest ships in the game. At least she stopped moving. Still, the little tug boat sits in the water, not sinking. After TWO torpedo hits. After three hours of waiting I fire a THIRD torpedo, finally breaking up the tough little boat, sinking it.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with all this if that would've happened with a 5000ts cargo ship. But with a tug boat? A torpedo hit should blow such a small target right out of the water.

Is this something that will be changed in the future? Or was this simply a one in a million case of bad luck?


EDIT: Found the following by Teddybär:

The NYGM SD V2 tugboat has been totally rezoned and should be a pleasure to sink.

Guess that answers my question. :yep:

[ParaB]

Hmm... I'm not quite sure what to think about the NYGM. I just sank a C2-Cargo. Took four torpedoes to sink. First torpedo hit in the forward 1/3 of the ship, didn't seem to do anything besides scratching off some paint. Followed the ship for more than 1 hour, then fired a second torpedo, hit a couple of meter forward of the bridge. Ship continues on course, slowed down a bit (from 8-9 kts to 5 kts) followed it for 1 1/2 hours, ship sinks a bit but still continues rather unconcerned... A third torpedo hits in the aft third of the ship, in the next 90 minutes the ship sinks a bit deeper, but still seems to sail happily along at 5kts. After three torpedo hits... :hmm:

More than four hours after the first hit I send the fourth eel into the unfortunate cargo ship, and FINALLY, half an hour later, she begins to sink.

I really don't know what to think about this. Four torpedoes for a medium freighter (5000ts)? I haven't played a lot with NYGM but at the moment I'm less than happy with it. This just doesn't seem very realistic. I do support the idea of making sinking the ships a bit more realistic, but if that means a ship can now simplyshrug off a couple of torpedo hits it probably isn't my cup of tea. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but IMO a C2-class cargo ship should sink rather quickly after one-two torpedo hits. From my rather limited experience with NYGM it seems that a single torpedo hit has pretty much zero chance to sink a target.

[Observer]

Please make sure you read the User Manual. It explains in detail how ship sinkings occur in NYGM TW (or GW for that matter). The point is, you have to make the ship sink, not simply run out of hitpoints and explode. This means it takes a bit of practice to be effective in sinking ships as the tactics from the stock SH3 damage model will no longer work.

I can usually sink a medium merchant in 2 torpedoes and sometimes one (impact pistol). It is possible, but you have to be smart in your targeting.

[Boris]

I have mixed feelings about the ship sinking mod. I think overall it is better. Sometimes I do have ships that refuse to sink, but i also get lucky and they might sink on the first go.
A few patrols ago I fired a torp into an Auxillary Cruiser travelling in a convoy.
I set the thing to go off under the keel, I hit midships but then had to dive because of approacing escorts. While I was at depth the cruiser went down only about 5 minutes later.
Also there is still the occasional critial hit...

[ParaB]

I did read the extensive documentation that comes with the mod. I think the idea of ships actually sinking instead of running out of hitpoints and getting destroyed is very good. And the added uncertainty when and if a target sinks is indeed a nice addition for SHIII. But, unfortunately, in my (rather limited) experience so far it doesn't work as I expected. Mind you, I wrote "I expected". it is well possible that the creators intended something different than what I thought the mod would do.

But still, if cargo ships shrug off multiple torpedo hits something doesn't seem right. So, I guess I was just unlucky?

[Observer]

I did read the extensive documentation that comes with the mod. I think the idea of ships actually sinking instead of running out of hitpoints and getting destroyed is very good. And the added uncertainty when and if a target sinks is indeed a nice addition for SHIII. But, unfortunately, in my (rather limited) experience so far it doesn't work as I expected. Mind you, I wrote "I expected". it is well possible that the creators intended something different than what I thought the mod would do.

But still, if cargo ships shrug off multiple torpedo hits something doesn't seem right. So, I guess I was just unlucky?

It could be bad luck. It took me quite a bit of practice time before I figured it out too. There is no sweet spot, but you do get a pretty good feel for the locations of compartments. Even so, there is still some variability in the effectiveness of torpedoes which you may be experiencing. There are also some intrinsic issues with the current implementation, mostly in the form of shared zones. We hope to address this in v2.0 of the ship damage mod. You should see this reflected in the next version of NYGM TW (v1.04).

[ParaB]

Thx, I'll keep trying.

:yep:

[Montbrun]

It's just bad luck. I've had the same thing happen. I've seen C2s that would refuse to sink, or take upwards of 20 hours to go down. Last night, I ran across a Nelson Class BB in a convoy - 7 eels in various locations, only listing - never sank. Later, I nailed 1 Troop Transport, and 6 Destroyers, all with 1 Torp. Just chalk it up to duds, especially early in the war....

[Enfilade]

I posted in the NYGM Tonnage thread sticky but so far no reply. So let me try here.

During my last patrol, I torpedoed a C-2 but then had to crash dive. When I surfaced some hours later, the C-2 was half submerged and dead in the water. As I approached to finish her off, the merchant sank on its own by the bow... its stern standing straight up before plunging into the depths.

However, I received no credit for the sinking. :(

Is this any sort of a known bug with the NYGM ship damage model? Thanks for any help......

[Observer]

I posted in the NYGM Tonnage thread sticky but so far no reply. So let me try here.

During my last patrol, I torpedoed a C-2 but then had to crash dive. When I surfaced some hours later, the C-2 was half submerged and dead in the water. As I approached to finish her off, the merchant sank on its own by the bow... its stern standing straight up before plunging into the depths.

However, I received no credit for the sinking. :(

Is this any sort of a known bug with the NYGM ship damage model? Thanks for any help......

Sorry for the lack of response. Unfortunately this bug has been present since the original release of SH3. One area to be careful about is saving, exiting and reloading. If you damage a ship, save and exit, then upon reload the ship sinks you will not get credit.

[redbrow]

Para - reminds me of when i was a kid. We used buy model ships and armor them up according to certain rules, and then go out with a bb gun and sink each other's ships. my friend Richter was a cheat though, and once he stuffed his battleship with styrofoam. He almost got away with it, as my battleship - THE HATE - took 70 hits before it sunk. But then i saw bits of the white stuff floating out of his ship. Got even with him though - our next battle we used sailing ships, and his was a beautiful model of the HMS Victory. He made the mistake of allowing my brother and i to keep it over night and so we ran tests on it. Shot one bb through the hull and the plastic was soft like butter. He hadn't cheated with styrofoam, so we patched up the hole with a platic putty and touched up the paint.

The next day his ship got to fire 40 rounds where as our two ships only fired 20 per turn. By agreement my brother and i did not sink his ship right off. we spent our time raking his deck and knocking down all his rigging. we wrecked the whole ship with just 37 shots and then my brother put 3 just below the waterline.

ah, yes, the days before computers chips.

[Enfilade]

Sorry for the lack of response. Unfortunately this bug has been present since the original release of SH3. One area to be careful about is saving, exiting and reloading. If you damage a ship, save and exit, then upon reload the ship sinks you will not get credit.

Thanks for the info. That is exactly what happened. I'll know next time not to save /exit before any damaged ships sink! :)

[bill clarke]

Well the other night whilst on patrol I topedoed a freighter it broke in half and sank, but I got no credit for it :damn:

[ParaB]

Just thought I'd mention my latest experiences with NYGM. During the last patrols I've managed to actually sink small coastal merchants with one torpedo and C3-Cargos with two torpedoes. So, I'd say that contrary to my 1st impressions NYGM seems to work as expected on many occasions. I'm still not quite happy about the resilience of some of the smaller ships but in general I VERY MUCH like what the NYGM crew has done to SHIII.

:up:

[booger2005]

Just thought I'd mention my latest experiences with NYGM. During the last patrols I've managed to actually sink small coastal merchants with one torpedo and C3-Cargos with two torpedoes. So, I'd say that contrary to my 1st impressions NYGM seems to work as expected on many occasions. I'm still not quite happy about the resilience of some of the smaller ships but in general I VERY MUCH like what the NYGM crew has done to SHIII.

:up:

I had a similar experience when a small tanker took 6 torpedoes, and still didn't sink. (The damage textures covered the entire side of the ship). NYGM is great, most of the time on most ships, but a few are way too tough. Until V2, I think the best thing to do on ships that you think are too tough is to use mini-tweaker to restore the HP values back.

[Seminole]

Yesterday I hit a 110 ton costal vessel from dead astern with one torp and it blew the thing through the air for a number of yards...and it sunk like a stone.

Right now I've got a 7000 ton medium cargo merchantman dead in the water from just one fish. I have two torps left and in a few minutes I'm booting up the game to see what I can accompish with those.....even if I have to reload the save a number of times.

If you read the PDF readme with NYGM it clearly states that the prime objective was to remove the certainty from the game play and keep the player guessing about the outcome.

I don't think anyone can question that this objective has been achieved. Whether or not this uncertain aspect appeals to you is purely a personal matter. I'm still on the fence myself....sometimes it is just too difficult to believe the results achieved compared to the damage that ought to have resulted from the hits inflicted.

[Seminole]

Well with the 2 remaining torpedoes I was able to cut the vessel into two sections and it sank within 2 minutes....less than one hour game time from the time my watch spotted it.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/542019/QIHWF-NYGM.jpg

I don't think that it is that the ships are now too tough with NYGM...but rather it is a matter of exactly where you hit them. As the readme more or less stated.

Of course I was given an ideal situation in the above as the cargo ship was down to 0 knots and I had plenty of time to line up and aim the final blows. It would have been a much harder proposition in choppy seas and with moving targets ect...ect....But I am satisfied that the mod isn't impossibly hard but simply much more varied than before in the way the various ships take damage. No longer is it only a matter of hittng a C2 just behind the bridge area with a single torp and watching it go down in minutes.

Guess that is what the mod intended to accomplish....well done from what I have seen!


But a word of caution....had the ship not sank in a few minutes I was prepared to remain on station for as long as it took to see it go down. As it was I was leaving the area when a patrol plane from around Aberdeen came buzzing in and dropped a payload almost in my lap. I was lucky this time as we suffered no damage but next time I will leave (or remain watching) sumerged. :yep:

[Montbrun]

This post is just an example for the folks who complain that the NYGM Tonnage MOD is "too hard." "Successful" patrols can happen using the NYGM Tonnage MOD.

On my present Career, the first 5 patrols were rather uneventful, sinking between 3.8K and 22K of tonnage. The first 5 patrols allowed me to work out the tactics necessary to have a successful patrol.

Patrol 6 - January - February, 1940 - I managed to sink 9 ships (2 x Tramp Steamers, 2 x Small Cargo, 2 x Medium Cargo, and 3 x Large Cargo) for 45,400 tons with 14 Torpedos. The crew also managed to shoot down 2 Hurricanes.

Patrol 7 - April, 1940 - I sank 3 x Troop Transports, 2 x Tribal Destroyers, and 1 x Fiji Light Cruiser with 12 Torpedos for 44,782 tons. These were all from the same Task Force that I ran into North of Norway. It was pure luck that this Task Force was sighted where I could maneuver into perfect shooting position.

I have found that, with the NYGM ship damage models, you need to take your time when manuevering for shot setup. Also, make sure that you are using the "compartment targeting." I have found that, more often that not, with the Fuel Bunker, or Ammo Bunker targetted, a "critical" hit will happen. This definately makes up for the times when I've had to wait 20+ hours for an incapacitated ship to sink....

I'm looking forward the the updated NYGM stuff coming.

Thanks,

Montbrun