Detection range for hydrophones

[rulle34]

I just wonder how to alter the detection range for the hydrophones.
There are two things that I want to alter:
1. There is a huge difference between the distance I hear something on hydrophone and when the sonarman calls out that he has detected something. I think this should be the same. Best would have been that he first reports a soundcontact, and when distance decreasing, even can determine if there is a warship or a merchant. But at least when something is hearable he reports it. Can't find where this is triggered. Anyone have some tip?

2. Hydrophone distance
In sensors.cfg all hydrophones is set for MaximumRange=20000m
Still it's possible to (very very faint though) hear a single ship at 34000m See also this thread (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=36851)

Realistic values where in best conditions 20km for single ships and convoys up to 100km
Where do you change hydrophone detection distance?

I have tried as follows:
1. Change MaximumRange from 20000 to 30000m in sensors.dat (for all hydrophones). No result!
2. Increased (different values tested)"Hydrophone range factor" in Sensors.cfg - No result!
3. Increased "Sensitivity" in Sim.cfg - No result!

Does anyone have a clue how to change this?

[timetraveller]

Hi rulle34,

Seems like I've heard contacts on the hydrophone out to about 15km if I remember right.

AISensors.dat has all the game values for that stuff. What's weird is that the hydro value there is set to 6000 meters. So I dunno.

SH3 Mini Tweaker program will be out with the hour.

TT

http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/7222/hydrophone3ak.gif

[rulle34]

Hello Timetraveller
I wonder if not Ai_sensors is the enemys hydrophone capacity?

About distance, I use atmospheremod witch has the16 km visibilty mod. With visibility mod the world is made bigger. I wonder if that's the reaso I had about double distance value from you?

Another thing TT. Is it possible to have a rule made for the SkyColours.dat file also. Then there is rules covering all files that is involved in the visbility mod (sensors.cfg, scene.dat, SkyColours.dat). Can be useful when trying to alter values for changing hydrophone distance as Im still not skilled in hexediting....yet :P

[gouldjg]

I was considering setting the intervals for the radio room quite low so that the sonar man would respond better.

NumberOfCrew11=2 This is where to change them for test
Interval1_11=1.1
Interval2_11=1.7
Interval3_11=4.1

Found in basic cfg

As it is a 2 man room I do not think it should knock on to anything else in a really bad way. I cannot remember any other 2 person slots though maybe a AA has one in one of the subs.

This would in effect make the qualification more useless in that room or maybe the qualification has other benefits in itself i.e. it triggers an added ability as well.

[rulle34]

Great Rubini :up:
So you mean there is the value set for making sonarman report contacts earlier?
What figures shall I use? larger?

[timetraveller]

Hello Timetraveller
I wonder if not Ai_sensors is the enemys hydrophone capacity?

Yes, possible. Maybe someone else here knows.

About distance, I use atmospheremod witch has the16 km visibilty mod. With visibility mod the world is made bigger. I wonder if that's the reaso I had about double distance value from you?

Not sure again. There are some experts on this I think.

Another thing TT. Is it possible to have a rule made for the SkyColours.dat file also.

I'll have a look at that file and see what it looks like.

TT

[gouldjg]

Great Rubini :up:
So you mean there is the value set for making sonarman report contacts earlier?
What figures shall I use? larger?

If you are refering to the interval settings, the lower = the more effect.

I have not fully tested it yet as am too busy.

If you was actually refering to something Rubini wrote sry lines must have got crossed. :up:

[rulle34]

Sorry! :oops: Mistyping :damn: I of course meant you gouldjg :D

[Rubini]

Great Rubini
So you mean there is the value set for making sonarman report contacts earlier?
What figures shall I use? larger?
hehe,
Thanks for the credit rulle 34! :D
But gouldjg is the man!

Rubini.

[rulle34]

Another thing TT. Is it possible to have a rule made for the SkyColours.dat file also.

I'll have a look at that file and see what it looks like.

TT


Double Thank's TT :up:

[rulle34]

Great Rubini
So you mean there is the value set for making sonarman report contacts earlier?
What figures shall I use? larger?
hehe,
Thanks for the credit rulle 34! :D
But gouldjg is the man!

Rubini.

I know :damn: I confused and mistype, well you deserve a lot of credit anyway Rubini :P

[Marhkimov]

I wonder if not Ai_sensors is the enemys hydrophone capacity?

AI_sensors is the for enemy AI's visual, radar, and sonar detection (I think).


About distance, I use atmospheremod witch has the16 km visibilty mod. With visibility mod the world is made bigger. I wonder if that's the reaso I had about double distance value from you?

Aside from the 16km and jungman's AI sonar and RWR tweeks, Atmosphere mod doesn't change any of the hydrophone or stock settings (meaning the visual distance has been changed just for show, with almost no further bearing on gameplay tweeks).

[timetraveller]

rulle34,

Try this for your SkyColors...dat files

The Atlantic, for example:

// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=data\Env\SkyColors_Atl.dat


[1]
DropDownName=Water Reflection
search,ClipHeight,1,single,>2,ClipHeight
search,Reflection,1,byte,>2,Reflection
search,Refraction,1,byte,>2,Refraction
search,FrustumTest,1,byte,>2,FrustumTest
search,MinVisDim,1,single,>2,MinVisDim
search,MaxVisDim,1,single,>2,MaxVisDim

I don't see any other changable values in these files. I played some with the reflectioon and refraction numbers. I pretty sure they are byte values. They're very touchy.

TT

[rulle34]

Thank's for helping TT :up:
hmm I wonder what Ortega has changed in SkyColour.dat files then..Im quite sure it's changed for visibility mod and the larger skydome. What are this "byte values" you mensioned?

[rulle34]

About distance, I use atmospheremod witch has the16 km visibilty mod. With visibility mod the world is made bigger. I wonder if that's the reaso I had about double distance value from you?

Aside from the 16km and jungman's AI sonar and RWR tweeks, Atmosphere mod doesn't change any of the hydrophone or stock settings (meaning the visual distance has been changed just for show, with almost no further bearing on gameplay tweeks).

Hello marhkimov
You are right about no values for hydrophone is changed. It was only a theory when the "world" is bigger, then maybe this distanses are "stretched" in some way. But after some testing I doubt that too.

Just trying to figure out how to affect hydrophone detecting distance :damn:
Im always in to something impossible :dead:

[timetraveller]

Thank's for helping TT :up:
hmm I wonder what Ortega has changed in SkyColour.dat files then..Im quite sure it's changed for visibility mod and the larger skydome. What are this "byte values" you mensioned?

The Two byte values I meant are the Reflection and Refraction.

I seem to remember something about sky dome value in a thread awhile ago. If we can find it we might be able to locate the value.

TT

[timetraveller]

Sky dome is discussed in the 8KM visibility thread starting page 7 to about page 11. I don't see any reference to it after that.

TT

[rulle34]

I'll try to go through all this about visibility again..Phuu..see if I can find something.. :hmm:
Modding is for sure nothing for impatience people :rotfl:

[rulle34]

rulle34,

Try this for your SkyColors...dat files

The Atlantic, for example:

// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=data\Env\SkyColors_Atl.dat


[1]
DropDownName=Water Reflection
search,ClipHeight,1,single,>2,ClipHeight
search,Reflection,1,byte,>2,Reflection
search,Refraction,1,byte,>2,Refraction
search,FrustumTest,1,byte,>2,FrustumTest
search,MinVisDim,1,single,>2,MinVisDim
search,MaxVisDim,1,single,>2,MaxVisDim

I don't see any other changable values in these files. I played some with the reflectioon and refraction numbers. I pretty sure they are byte values. They're very touchy.

TT

Wow!! I just made my first rule to this magic tool :up:

Used that text, found out that I have to add:
// Game version for these changes.
Version=1.4b

// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=data\Env\SkyColors_Atl.dat


[1]
DropDownName=Water Reflection
search,ClipHeight,1,single,>2,ClipHeight
search,Reflection,1,byte,>2,Reflection
search,Refraction,1,byte,>2,Refraction
search,FrustumTest,1,byte,>2,FrustumTest
search,MinVisDim,1,single,>2,MinVisDim
search,MaxVisDim,1,single,>2,MaxVisDim

Named the file "SkyColors_Atl_dat", paste it in to the "TweakFiles-folder" And woula, I had a new rule to load in the mini-tweaker :sunny:

Well, tested this rule to a stock 1.4 clean install and compared values from visibility mod and they are identical :huh:
I wonder if there are some changes made. and in that case are there any other values that can be changed that this rule dont give us?? Is it possible or have some of lived in the beliefe that this file was changed for visibility? :hmm:
Some suggestions anyone? :o :o :o

[rulle34]

Sky dome is discussed in the 8KM visibility thread starting page 7 to about page 11. I don't see any reference to it after that.

TT

I'll try to go through all this about visibility again..Phuu..see if I can find something.. :hmm:
Modding is for sure nothing for impatience people :rotfl:

Well, after some heavy reading I found this on page 11 in the visibility thread: (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39588&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=250)

"All that was changed with Skycolors is the 3D model was made larger in size to fit the bigger world"

"About the skycolor files, the only item changed is the sky 3d hemi-sphere.
In the three files it is from address 111 (decimal) to 5402."

I guess that these are the values I have been looking for that makes the skydome larger!
@TT:Is it possible to implement that in the rules so it can be used in the tool? :o
(..hoping..) :roll:

[timetraveller]

Sky dome is discussed in the 8KM visibility thread starting page 7 to about page 11. I don't see any reference to it after that.

TT

I'll try to go through all this about visibility again..Phuu..see if I can find something.. :hmm:
Modding is for sure nothing for impatience people :rotfl:

Well, after some heavy reading I found this on page 11 in the visibility thread: (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39588&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=250)

"All that was changed with Skycolors is the 3D model was made larger in size to fit the bigger world"

"About the skycolor files, the only item changed is the sky 3d hemi-sphere.
In the three files it is from address 111 (decimal) to 5402."

I guess that these are the values I have been looking for that makes the skydome larger!
@TT:Is it possible to implement that in the rules so it can be used in the tool? :o
(..hoping..) :roll:

I see the area you are talking about. That's a lot of data, more than one value (5292 bytes). And we don't really know what it is.

Probably not a job for the tweaker. But, can you find out what the new data for this section is?

TT

[rulle34]

It must be the changes to sky 3d hemi-sphere that Manuel Ortega did so the skydome become bigger.
I can't read or do hexediting(.....yet :lol: ) so unfortunately I cant tell you any better than this :oops:

So if I understand you right, in that sektion, there is not some values that are changed for this?

[Kaleunt]

Rulle 34, the scene.dat file affects only the SHIII 3D world, with the 16km
scene.dat the 3D world was extended from 10000m to 20000m.
All detections values can be adjusted to the new scale, you can compare
the stockgame sensors values and adjust these values accordingly.
The only parameters wich can have an effect on a detection value(visual spotting) are the fog parameters defined in the scene.dat file.
The answer to your problem is not in the scene.dat file.
But has you know the new 3D limits (20000m) you can raise the hydrophone values in proportion.Exemple stockgame 3D world=10000m
stockgame hydrophone detection range=20000m.
You can go as far as 40000m for the hydrophone detection range in the
16 km mod.

[rulle34]

Hello Kaleunt
This is exactly what Im going for here, BUT whenalter values in sensors.dat and in .cfg files, there are no difference at all :damn:

The thing I want to do is to achieve some realistic sonar values.

Convoys up to 100km and single ship up to 20 km.
I also want somar man to report as soon something can be heard at sonar. Now its a HUGE difference from where you can hear something your self and when sonarman reports a contact.

But all my attempts to change settings has ended up in no result at all :damn:

I was trying to identify skydome changes to see if there was some value there that can affect this.
I guess I just have to give up on this :hulk:

[timetraveller]

It must be the changes to sky 3d hemi-sphere that Manuel Ortega did so the skydome become bigger.
I can't read or do hexediting(.....yet :lol: ) so unfortunately I cant tell you any better than this :oops:

So if I understand you right, in that sektion, there is not some values that are changed for this?

Unfortunately, the values or whatever data is in that area doesn't make any sense to me. We can keep the topic open till we learn what it is.

TT

[Kaleunt]

Hello Rulle 34, detecting undewater sounds up to 100km or over 100km
can only be possible via convergence zones, i don't know if this natural
effect is modeled in SHIII.
But on another subject, i wish to give some hints on visual range, maybe
it will be usefull for tweak the night vision capability.
In the scene.dat file you have some parameters wich affect the visual range;the fog factor and light factor: iF you use the Timetraller tolls you will find 4 values for Fog:
Fog 1= no fog, Fog 2= light fog, fog 3= Medium fog and Fog 4 = Heavy Fog.
All value for each case are percentage of max 3D range (10000m stock game, 20000m 16km visibility mod)
a value like "objectrelativezmax= 0,9" make a ship visible at 90%
of max range of the 3D world (so 9000m stockgame, 18000m 16km visibility mod)
Another paremeter is in "other environement" wich can be readable
SHIII miniTweaker you "Lightoverhorizon=25" wich means that the
light is displayed on a radis of 25000m stock game (25x10000m)
And now you begin to see that all parameters concerning the fog and light in 3D world
of the 16km visibility mod are out of proportion..........because they stay on base of 10000m and not 20000m. The problem can be found too in the camera.dat wich was forgotten. Manuel Ortega was right when he wanted
to give a new camera.dat file in is mod, file wich was overlooked.
To display the 3D world to 20000m Manuel as multiplied the camera parameter by 2 from 1000 to 2000. As the scale of the 3D worls is 10
you obtain camera 1000 = 1000x10(stockgame parameter, so 10000m)
or camera 2000= 2000x10(16km visibilty mod, so 20000m)
So real importants corrections need to be done to the 16km mod .

[rulle34]

:o :o :o
Hello Kaleunt. I'm impressed
You should be calculating on next spaceship instead of waisting your time on a subsimforum :rotfl:
Just joking :P
There is absolute sense in this and you mean that values should be doubled because of basis now is 20000m instead of stock 10000m? Logic, but how to I know what values to be changed?
And what values did what to visibility in darkness? (im stupid cos i didn't quite understand that)

[Kaleunt]

I point your attention on the fact that the fog parameters as soon as are
maitrised can be put at any range wanted to make the visual range more or less important from your uboat. But a little detail Manuel Ortega has totally disabled the Fog= 1 parameter to make the visual range to go as far as 20000m so without this limit the night visual range is really too important.

[rulle34]

But a little detail Manuel Ortega has totally disabled the Fog= 1 parameter to make the visual range to go as far as 20000m so without this limit the night visual range is really too important.

I have checked Fog=1 value in scene.dat for manuels vis mod, 16km Atmosph mod and in stock 1.4 scene.dat.
I can't see any difference.

Can you please be more specific in what value Ortega disabled and what other values to be changed for less night vampire visibility :roll:

I have now tweaked CCIP camera mod so it's now set for 25000m in all distances it was set for 10000m :up: There where 132 entrys so it was some lines to check :o
But now it's done. Will check if it'll be any difference in game though.

Im really devoted to this increased visibility so if you could help me in this so we can have a increased visibility mod without side-effects I (and many more I guess) would be very happy

I'll check in to this fog/lightning and come back with some suggestions/questions.
Big thank's for your help Kaleunt :up:

[Kaleunt]

For the cameras values you need to divide the Clip distance by 2 if you increase the visibility range to 20000m, i don't like the 25000m option because you give a greater visibilty range than the 3D world. The change
to the clip distance give better proportions to the 3D world.
The rule is simple: to make the things closer divide the values by 2,
multiply the values by 2 and you go on the oposite way.
For the fog distance disabled at fog=1, i didn't use SHIII tweaker
but an hex editor. But in SHIII mini Tweaker you have a parameter
called "Other fog distances" this parameter is the line just before
"Fog=1", click on it and you can read "Fogdistances=303" and
"Fogdistances=24" if the value of this parameter is not set at "24"
in your 16 km visibility mod, enter this value. Evidently at fog=1
you can't see a real difference but this has an impact anyway.
This fog distances values are the value ruling the position of the 3D
Fog object ,a kind of curtain closing the horizon of the 3D world.
Don't make any change to these values, if you divide the "Fogdistance=303" by 2, SHIII crashes to desktop, if you multiply the
"Fogdistances=303" and "Fogdistances=24" by 2 all fog effects in all weather conditions diseappear totally.
But have you tried to tweak the"Light value over Horizon"?
I'm pretty sure that is the luminosity factor wich has an effect on the detection potential, day and night.

[rulle34]

Well, I rechange the camerasettings. Manuel had set them all for 25000 that's why I did it too

About
"OtherFogdistances" and the values for
"FogDistances was set to 303 and 153!!
I changed 153 to 24 as you recommend.

I have tweaked "LightOverHorizon" to "10" just to see what happen to night visibility :up:

[Kaleunt]

Since i have made all these changes things are better displayed.
But i didn't have the time to make some tests at night. For information
if you divide all the fog=1 values by 2 you come back to a visibility range
of around 8000m so the best way is to go incrementaly.
I will test a modified "light over horizon" as soon as possible, i have set it at 12.5.

[rulle34]

Kaleunt
This seem to be just great
I have now night spottings at 5900m clear night and clear day 15300m
It's quite ok values :up:
Will do some more tweaks and more tests :P

[gouldjg]

Sounds Promising Guys

Well done

[Marhkimov]

Oh wow, I wonder if this could be it... :hmm:

Once you guys are sure that your discoveries work, could you explain it all again? I have trouble understanding what's going on... Thanks.

[rulle34]

Have run some tests now and it seem like value 10 looks best so far.
Another very odd thing that I discovered....
TC affects visbility in the opposite way, using TC spotting from LONGER distances occur??
Seem aslo depends on what kind of crew I use??
Having watchofficer and only sailors also rendered in LONGER spottingranges??
Using watch officer, watch pettyofficer and rest sailors gave SHORTER night spottings. In both options bar was fully green!
This was maybe only some stupid coincidence but this visbility can really test your nerfs :damn:
:sunny:

[Jungman]

Did not read whole post. The AI_Sensors.dat is for the enemy hydrophone.

Use Sensors.dat for the your crew hydrophone. Set the rate of sweep, and probability to detect higher. Hex edit it.

Some other stuff in Sensors.cfg file for using crew effeciency and stuff.

Wow, you guys figured out how to decrease Vampire Night Vision? That would be great! :yep:

The 'intervals' for the watch crew needs changed. It can go way beyond 100% and it wraps around.

[Kaleunt]

Rulle 34, i think that the problem with the TC ais not related to the adjustement to the scene.dat file or camera.dat file. As Jungman
pointed it you need to tweak some sensors and crew values. But i can't
be of real use on this matter because i have only worked on the scene.dat and camera.dat files.

[CB..]

:oops: i dunno how this relates to the sky-dome side of this discussion BUt--i opened the cloud texture files (shame they didn't go a little more crazy with the cloud texture variety--plenty of much older sims have far nicer cloud sky weather visuals) anyway i increased the contrast and toned the colours down a little (iron clad clouds) saved them and due to my lack of savvy with texture programs what i got was a fairly boring set of cloud textures --the up side was that i allso got a fuzzy white transition on the horizon (like some one had airbrushed a white/grey band around the horizon) --i allmost dumped the job with a sigh but i noticed that this made the smoke visible from the shipping long before i was able to see the ships them selves-- not a sensor job i know but it does allow for the smoke on the horizon effect and does in effect increase the range at which i can spot the ships even in fog--so i put up with the fuzzy band for the added interest of scanning the horizon for smoke-not sure why this effect happened as a result of the minor changes i made to the cloud textures--probably something to do with layered transparancy maybe--

on the camera dat does any one know how i could increase the zoom level for the external "follow me" camera - i would like to be able to get right up close to the conning tower in the ship camera mode