Weird MP game

[drEaPer]

I just had a game with Worker321 and LoupJr.
We were using LWAMI 2.03.

All settings were set to expert (no quick weapon launch etc)

I just watched the replay with show truth enabled and I am really concerned.
A 688 got shot at, and spammed CMs, 2 a time. Quick launch was disabled.
The other weird thing was that, out of nowhere, exactly on the spot where an enemy akula was located, a hostile trawler spawned. Later in the game a 2nd hostile trawler spawned. The OHPs took care of em immdiatelly.

Another strange behavior was, that someitmes I couldnt assign a tracker to a clearly visible and strong signal in broadband. But when I went to NB and assigned a tracker to specific frequency it worked. Unfortunatelly the "command" to assign a tracker in BB was somehow enqueue and DW remembers it, so as soon as another signal changed bearing so that it crossed the point where I failed to assign a tracker to a clearly visible signal, the game designated that new signal. First I wasnt really udnerstanding what was going on, I just heard the sonar assinging contacts without me doing anything, but later I found out that the sonar enqued my assign command.

Now that was a really weird game. Might it be related to the new lwami? Or was the netcode totally freaking out? *shrug*

[Kapitan]

thts a bit like our game

re classifying contacts from the UUV rendering the nav screen inoprable

the ships rudder well we went round in circuls 3 times before we got to our course

me firing udaloys when i never even fired a weapon

torpedos not functioning correctly

and a few other things

[LuftWolf]

Did you have any database errors when you loaded the gamelobby?

[LuftWolf]

All of these wierd games that are happening are involving Kapitain, I'm not pointing fingers but if games without him are working fine, and games with him involved are all crazy... then I think we have a probable cause.

[Kapitan]

yeah i guess it is probly me or some currupt file

il re install DW and re patch it then we see

[LuftWolf]

I recommend getting a new UNZIP program!!!

[LuftWolf]

Let me know when you are all setup, I'll help test your configuration... we have to try to get you in the game without any database errors. :up:

[Kapitan]

should be ready in about 35 mins

[LuftWolf]

Ok, cool... I'll be on ICQ, I may be eating, but I can work tonight.

Get a new UNZIP program!!! Try to find one on the internet... I recommend PowerArchiver, you get a 30 day free trial of the program, you can get it from www.Download.com I believe.

[Kapitan]

thanks

[JoGary(sco)]

In stock DW somtimed the i have found the BB waterfall is not lined up with the actual contact sometimes. Usually at start of game. Like if i have a strong shrimp contact and i place cursor over it and try mark it i cant. I also cant hear the shrimp. But if i move cursor a few deg left or right of the signal on Waterfall screen i can hear the shrimp and mark them. I have mentioned this to others but no one i have asked has same prob.
Also one that i just dont under stand it the ADCAP become TASM. Cant remember if it has happened in Single player or is a MP only prob. I have asked a lot of players but i seem only one who has it happen to him Let me explain it. ;)
I start game with tubes 1 to 6 as Adcap and 7 & 8 as UUVs. I always do same thing in same order when i start a Dive. I first stram TA and hit charge air to get the extra 10% u can get without surficing. Then i go to Spher BB and mark any contacts i have. Then i goto NB flank and mark and classify the contact i had on Shere and any others i find there. I then go to Nav map and change contacts to Neutrals and hostiles as needed. And Bios :). Then i goto weapons station and set Floors of all adcap to max. Then set RTE to 15000yds insted of defaul 10000yds. At this point all tubes have what i loaded. Adcap and 2 UUVs. Then i goto sonar as TA should be streamed by now and check for any contacts Sphere and Flank couldnt see. Mainly subs. Some times i have one, somtimes not. If i have sub i mark if not i start search. If i have one or when i find one i then go to refine or assign some torps to the target. When i get there there is a TASM loaded always in tube 3. Once i had it in tube 1 but only once. It doesnt matter if it only been 1 min since i was there before and a ADCAP was in tube 3 at that time. It always fully loaded and ready to fire. It ok if i obly have one sub to fire at but when i have 2 it leaves me with only 2 torps for one of the subs. It doesnt happen all the time. Maybe 1 in 10 dives. Since it first happened i have reinstallled DW many times but it still happens. Last time was 2 days ago. :damn:
I not to bothered about a fix as it minor but i just want to know if anyone else has had same thing happen. Everyone i ask says no.
Also let me know if the BB misalingned thing has happened to anyone to. This happens much more often. Probebly at tha start of every dive i do i think. It is usually ok by about 10min into the dive. It happens on both Spher and TA but mostly TA i think.

[LuftWolf]

Thanks Jo... of course, when *anything* funny happens when someone is using a mod, it becomes the modder's fault. :dead: :oops: :cry:

[LuftWolf]

I just reread the first post... I thought I read that Kapitain was involved with this game...

I have no idea what the heck is going on or if it is involved with our mod.

Did you have any database errors in the game lobby?

This sort of thing is commonly caused by database mismatches.

[Kapitan]

1 i wasnt involved in this particular dive

2 i have DB errors even in stock mode

[LuftWolf]

Ok, sorry Kapitain...

Well, dP just posted that one of his opponents accidently reinstalled 2.01 back over 2.03, so that would be the cause of the problems with this game.

Kap, I don't know what to say, other than that means it isn't the mod... the most common cause of the db error with stock db is one person not having the hotfix installed.

Other than that, its just one of those things... but as long as you get database errors, there WILL be problems in MP games.

[Kapitan]

ding dong just remember what i forgot :huh:

sound and speed fix knew i forgot some thing

[drEaPer]

@LW:
-No database errors.
-The particular game with the 2.01 problem never started, until we solved the issue (I wouldnt want to play a game with non synched DBs)

@JoGarry:
I m also fighting this misallignment you are mentioning. I havent paid attention if it is occurin in the modded game only.
In addition I recently have problems assigning a tracker at all, like I described in the 1st post.

[LuftWolf]

:hmm:

[LuftWolf]

Well, I've just heard that the mod is being evaluated by professionals (who shall remain nameless as they choose), so I have every confidence that they will find any problems. :up:

Thanks guys! ;) :D

PS if there are any problems with 2.02/3, then we can easily go back to 2.01, which was out for weeks without any reported issues.

PPS As a closing thought, anything that is wrong with 2.02/3 is simply because of random corruption introduced somewhere in the process of building the distribution, and not due to anything we changed directly, so if there is a fault found, it should be simply a matter of rebuilding a new distribution from the 2.01 version with the same changes as 2.02/3.

[Molon Labe]

Well, I've just heard that the mod is being evaluated by professionals (who shall remain nameless as they choose), so I have every confidence that they will find any problems. :up:

Thanks guys! ;) :D

PS if there are any problems with 2.02/3, then we can easily go back to 2.01, which was out for weeks without any reported issues.

PPS As a closing thought, anything that is wrong with 2.02/3 is simply because of random corruption introduced somewhere in the process of building the distribution, and not due to anything we changed directly, so if there is a fault found, it should be simply a matter of rebuilding a new distribution from the 2.01 version with the same changes as 2.02/3.

I hope you're not talking about me. I'm not a professional by any means, and we'll be mostly evaluating gameplay implications for the Seawolves. Our tech evalutation won't go much further than "easy to install and remove and it reliable" or "causes more problems than its worth." Of course, considering how smoothly 2.01 ran, I have a hard time accepting that there is a significant reliability problem with the mod. I'm sure it'll all get sorted out soon.

[drEaPer]

Played some more games (in fact I played the whole night lol)

You changed stuff on the SA so maybe this is related:
Next to the issue I mentioned above (not being able to assign a tracker) I now had 2 games where the SA showed a signal on BB before the TA did! Funny enough those signals were not visible in NB. It was a SW vs Sw vs 688 game. I had both subs on SA for like 20 minutes but not on TA. Even though they were visible I couldnt assign a tracker. I came closer and closer until (SW) was really very close (<1nm) but still not possible to assign a tracker on BB SA. I did a snap and killed him. <s> mc_scow_sailor.
Something is broken I believe. Or it is my LWAMI install. But what could possibly go wrong? There are no DB errors.

I pressed print screen several times, but when I just checked the folder there were none. :(

Dang, just saw its HOME not print screen...

[drEaPer]

I tried to reproduce in singleplayer and although it was slightly different in MP I got my main prob on tape.
I will upload it in a sec.

[drEaPer]

Here it is
CLICK (http://www.verloren.org/darkreaper/gaming-related/dangerous-waters/vid/bug/strangebehavior.divx)
Its DivX so its not getting to big (16mb).
You might have to increase the size and brightness cause its rather dark.

Oh and please ignore me clicking on Tracker Assign in NB without selecting a frequency, stupid me...

[Fish]

Jo, did you try a fresh install?

[Amizaur]

Guys, if you get database warnings entering the game room, just DON'T start a game untill you find the reason and resolve it :)
From the start I though you get no warnings and still strange things happened - if there were warnings then databases WERE different and then absolutely no wonder that strange things happened :D

The ONLY question then is why databases are different (IF they were installed correctly).

Luftwolf, is it possible that SOMEHOW people have different versions of 2.03 ? Like mod sent to Bill and later replaced by another one ?
Maybe everyone should delete what they have and download it again, to be sure what they have ?

[LuftWolf]

Well, I did increase the sensitivity of the SA... perhaps too much for the interface to handle, that's why you can't assign a tracker.

I'm concerned foremost about the random corruption problems, because that means something is "wrong."

In terms of the gameplay issues, yes, these probably need to be looked at, but at least it is simply a matter of what has been entered into the database.

Have you guys seen anymore of the random issues?

[LuftWolf]

In terms of the performance of the SA vs. the TA.

The sphere array BB is designed to be much clearer than than the TA BB. Strong low frequency TA NB contacts won't have much of a distinct trace on the TA. The SA on the other hand, will display bright BB contacts on the long term, before there are distinct traces on the NB.

However, the TA should ALWAYS have a low frequency NB trace before it is picked up on SA BB. However, the difficulty is this: the TA NB contacts can be much harded to spot when using the interface, especially if the contrast on your monitor is not set correctly and you are scanning too quickly. However, a BB trace on the long term display is very hard to miss.

I've tested the sonars under a number of different conditions, with quiet contacts and with loud contacts, and the contacts always showed up first on the TA NB. However, I had the advantage of knowing where they are... so it made it easier to see the faintest trace on the NB display. For example, a Collins at 5kts will be picked up by the TB-29 at about 10nm and the SW SA will pick it up on the long term NB at about 5nm. However, the difference in the ability of the operator to distinguish these signals is very different (easier for SA BB).

In terms of the tracker issue, yes I did notice that some contacts on the BB can be seen on long term before you can assign a tracker, however, I've had this problem with stock DW as well, so I didn't think it had anything to do with the sensitivity. Personally, I'm not so worried about this issue, as long as at SOMETIME you can assign a tracker.

Like I said, these changes were fairly major, perhaps too major, and gameplay testing will decide their fate, this is a normal process... however, the issues with random corruption keep me up at night worrying about what has happened, and are NOT part of the normal process, so I am most interested right now in these problems, if they keep occuring.

Please keep the feedback coming! :up:

[drEaPer]

In the vid you can see that the signal is on SA BB long time before it is on TA BB.

[LuftWolf]

I couldn't watch the video for some reason.

It should show up on the TA NARROWBand before it shows up on the SA BroadBand... and if you don't have your contrast set right, you won't see it on the NB.

The BB performance of the TA is not so great, in the mod, and according to my information, in real life as well. Many quiet targets won't show a BB trace on the TA, depending on the acoustic conditions, and this hasn't been changed in our mod (the TA sensitivties were already set pretty good...).

[drEaPer]

The video is divx, if you want I can use another codec, but it will increase the MB.

[LuftWolf]

It's not the codec that's the problem... I'm not sure, I just can't access it. :hmm:

In any case, if you are having an issue picking up NB contacts, you should probably adjust the contrast on your monitor... I seem to remember Fish posting a screen shot where he said he couldn't see the NB trace at all, only assign a tracker, and most people on the forum saw the trace lit up like an Christmas tree. :hmm:

There should be a file in your DW folder that is a screen-test shot, for you to tune your monitor.

Other than that, I don't know what to say... again, I can't reproduce what you are saying.

Keep this in mind:

1) all contacts with a NB signature should show up on the TA's long before you have a BB trace on either the TA or the SA.

2) The BB traces for the TA aren't so great, especially when there is a lot of background noise.

3) The SA BB will light up more brightly than your TA BB in virtually every case in which you have a strong signal on both arrays.

4) Due to the setting of the interface, you can't assign a BB tracker on the SA until you have a very high SNR, but you still can assign the NB trackers (this is not ideal, but I can't change it, nor do I think it is a reason to revert the SA's back to a less sensitive, and virtually useless, sensitivity).

I hope this helps... if, after adjusting your monitor contrast, you STILL find the SA's to be more sensitive, keeping in mind what I have posted here and in other threads, please give me the specific details of the situation, or, better yet, PM so I can give you my email and you can send me the saved game, saved at the exact moment you are experiencing this.

Thanks! I'd be very interested to see if there are any conditions under which the SA would outperform the TA.

[JoGary(sco)]

Yes fish i have reinsatlled loads of times and i still get misalingment and TASM in tube prob.

I have just watched the video and it was a very bright contact that you could not mark. Others that where not so bright where markable. I noticed though that when you put cursor over it there was no range on the WAA sonar and no SNR. Others that seemed less bright had WAA ranges and some SNR. Seems like the contact was showing up but shere couldnt yet see it. Weird :hmm:

[Soulchaser]

Kapitains DB error marathon has ended. we fixed him. :lol:

[LuftWolf]

Please please tell me what is was! :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

Like I said, please PM me if you have a game saved at a moment when this is happening, and I will check it out on my system. :hmm: :up: