Do you want MORE random names for SH3 Commander

[Marhkimov]

Here's hoping that Jaesen will use my updated version of the random names in SH3Cmdr. I've added quite a bit more German names to the list. These names are used by SH3 Commander in generating random Captain and Crewmen names.

Please scroll down and if you would like, feel free to browse through the list of names and post your comments (and don't forget to Vote!).


-PULLED DUE TO ISSUES- hopefully they will be worked out...

**EDIT**

SH3 Commander currently cannot support so many names. If you make it known that you would like more names to be added to SH3 Commander, VOTE YES! and let Jaeson know about it! :yep: :yep: :yep:






**NOTE: do not copy and paste this list into your 'SH3Cmdr.cfg' file; it is in 'html' format and will not work.

[FIRST NAMES]
FIRST=Adalbert,Adalbert,Adam,Adel,Adolf,Adolf,Adol ph,Adolph,Adrian,Alberich,Alberich,Albert,Albert,A lbert,Albrecht,Albrecht,Aldemar,
Aldemar,Alexander,Alexander,Alfred,Alfred,Alfred,A lfred,Alfred,Alois,Aloisus,Aloysus,Amelung,Andreas ,Andreas,Andreas,Anton,Anton,
Anton,Anton,Armin,Armin,Arndt,Arndt,Arne,Arnold,Ar nold,Arnold,Arnold,Arthur,Arthur,Artur,Asmus,Augus t,August,August,Aurel,Axel,
Axel,Axel,Baldur,Bastian,Bastian,Benedikt,Benedikt ,Benjamin,Benjamin,Benjamin,Bernard,Bernard,Bernar d,Bernd,Bernhard,Bernhard,
Berthold,Bonifaz,Bonifaz,Bonifaz,Bonifaz,Bruno,Bru no,Bruno,Carl,Carl,Carl,Carl,Carsten,Christian,Chr istian,Christian,Christian,Christian,
Christian,Christof,Christof,Christoph,Christoph,Cl aus,Claus,Clemens,Clemens,Clemens,Conrad,Conrad,Co nstantine,Cornelius,Cornelius,
Curt,Curt,Daniel,Daniel,Daniel,Dedrick,Dedrick,Ded rick,Dedrick,Degen,Degen,Detlef,Diederick,Dieter,D ieter,Dieter,Dierk,Dietmar,Dietrich,
Dirk,Dirk,Dirk,Dirk,Dirk,Dirk,Dominik,Dominik,Ebbe ,Ebbe,Ebbe,Edmund,Edmund,Edmund,Edmund,Edmund,Edmu nd,Emmanuel,Emmanuel,
Emmanuel,Emmanuel,Emil,Emil,Emil,Eckhardt,Engel,En gel,Erdmann,Erhard,Erhard,Ehrhard,Ehrhard,Erhart,E rhart,Erich,Erich,Erich,Erich,
Erich,Erik,Erik,Erik,Ernest,Ernest,Ernest,Ernest,E rnst,Ernst,Ernst,Ernst,Ernst,Erwin,Erwin,Erwin,Etz el,Eugen,Eugen,Eugen,Eugen,Evert,
Ewald,Ewald,Ewald,Fabian,Fabian,Fabian,Fabian,Fabi an,Franz,Franz,Felix,Felix,Felix,Frank,Frank,Frank ,Frank,Frank,Frank,Frank,
Ferdinand,Ferdinand,Ferdinand,Ferdinand,Ferdinand, Franz,Franz,Friede,Friedemann,Friederike,Friederik e,Friedhelm,Friedhold,Friedrich,
Friedrich,Friedrich,Friedrich,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fr itz,Fritz,Fritz,Froiland,Gabriel,Gabriel,Gabriel,G abriel,Gebbert,Gebhard,Geert,Geert,Georg,
Georg,Georg,Georg,Georg,Georg,Gerd,Gereon,Gerfried ,Gerhard,Gerhard,Gerhard,Gerhard,Gerhard,Gerhard,G erhardt,Gerhardt,Gerhold,
Gerhold,Gerrit,Gerwald,Gerwald,Gottfried,Gottfried ,Gottfried,Gottfried,Gotthard,Gotthold,Gottlieb,Go ttlieb,Gottlieb,Gottschalk,Götz,Götz,
Gregor,Gregor,Gregor,Gregor,Gregor,Gregor,Günter, Günter,Günther,Günther,Günther,Günther,Hagan, Hanke,Hannes,Hans,Hans,Hans,
Hans,Hans,Hans,Hans,Hans,Hans,Harald,Harald,Harro, Hartwig,Hartwig,Heinrich,Heinrich,Heinrich,Heinric h,Heinrich,Heinrich,Heinrich,
Heinrich,Heino,Heinz,Heinz,Heinz,Heinz,Heinz,Heinz ,Heinz,Heinz,Helmfried,Helmfried,Helmfried,Helmut, Helmut,Helmut,Helmut,Helmut,
Helmut,Hendrik,Hendrik,Henning,Henrik,Henry,Henry, Herbert,Herbert,Herbert,Herbert,Herbert,Herbert,He rmann,Hermann,Hermann,
Hermann,Hermann,Hermann,Hildebrand,Hildebrand,Hild ebrand,Horst,Horst,Horst,Huber,Huber,Hubert,Hugo,H ugo,Hugo,Hugo,Hugo,
Ignatz,Immanuel,Isidor,Ivo,Iwan,Izaak,Jan,Jacob,Ja kob,Jeremias,Joachim,Jochem,Jochen,Jochim,Johan,Jo han,Johan,Johan,Johann,
Johann,Johann,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes, Jonas,Jonas,Jörg,Jörg,Josef,Josef,Jost,Jozef,Joz ef,Julius,Jürgen,Jürgen,Jürgen,
Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Karl,Kilia n,Klaas,Klaus,Klaus,Klemens,Klemens,Konrad,Konrad, Konrad,Konstantin,Körbl,Kunibert,
Kurt,Kurt,Kurt,Kurt,Lambert,Lambert,Lambert,Lammer t,Lamprecht,Lanzo,Lanzo,Leberecht,Lenz,Lenz,Lenz,L enz,Lenz,Lenz,Leo,Leo,Leo,
Leo,Leon,Leon,Leonhard,Lorenz,Lorenz,Lorenz,Lothai r,Lothair,Ludger,Luitger,Luitpold,Lukas,Lucas,Luca ,Ludwig,Ludwig,Ludwig,Lutz,
Lutz,Lutz,Lutz,Lutz,Manfred,Manfred,Manfried,Marce l,Marcel,Marcel,Marcel,Marco,Marco,Marco,Marco,Mar co,Marius,Marius,Markus,
Martin,Martin,Mathias,Mathias,Mathias,Mathias,Math ias,Matthias,Mathis,Max,Max,Max,Maximilian,Maximil ian,Meinard,Meino,Meinrad,
Merten,Merten,Merten,Michael,Michael,Michael,Micha el,Michel,Moritz,Nicolai,Nickolaus,Nickolaus,Nikla us,Niklaus,Nikolaus,Nikolaus,
Norbert,Orel,Orel,Oskar,Oskar,Oskar,Oskar,Oskar,Ot to,Otto,Otto,Otto,Otto,Otto,Otto,Parsifal,Patrick, Patrick,Patrick,Paul,Paul,Paul,
Peter,Peter,Peter,Peter,Philipp,Radulf,Rafael,Rafa el,Raimund,Raimund,Raimund,Raimund,Raimund,Rainer, Rainer,Ralf,Ralph,Ralph,
Reimund,Rein,Reiner,Reiner,Reinhard,Reinhard,Reinh ard,Reinhart,Richard,Richard,Richard,Robert,Rolf,R olf,Roman,Ronni,Rudi,Rudolf,
Rudolf,Rudolf,Rupert,Sascha,Sebastian,Sebastian,Se bastian,Sebastian,Seppel,Severin,Siegfried,Siegfri ed,Siegfried,Siegmund,Sigmund,
Silvester,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan,Steffen,Step han,Stephan,Stephen,Sven,Theodor,Theodor,Theodor,T ill,Tomas,Tomas,Tomas,
Thomas,Thomas,Thomas,Thomas,Thomas,Tobias,Tobias,U do,Ulrich,Ulrich,Ulrich,Utz,Uwe,Valentin,Vestor,Vi ctor,Victor,Viktor,Viktor,
Vinzenz,Vinzenz,Volker,Waldemar,Waldo,Waldo,Waldo, Waldo,Walter,Walter,Walter,Walter,Walter,Walter,Wa lther,Walther,Walther,
Wendel,Wendel,Wendel,Wendel,Wendel,Wendel,Wenzel,W enzeslaus,Werner,Werner,Werner,Werner,Werner,Werne r,Werner,Werner,
Werther,Wieland,Wilfried,Wilfried,Wilfried,Wilfrie d,Wilhelm,Wilhelm,Wilhelm,Wilhelm,Wilhelm,Winfried ,Winfried,Winfried,Willi,Willi,Willi,
Willy,Willy,Willy,Willy,Wolfgang,Wolfram,Xaver,Yvo

[LAST NAMES]
LAST=Aachen,Abend,Abendroth,Achen,Ackermann,Ackerm ann,Ackermann,Adler,Apel,Arnold,Austerlitz,Baader, Baader,Babel,Bach,
Bäcker,Bäcker,Bäcker,Bäcker,Bader,Baer,Baier,B auer,Bauer,Bauer,Bauer,Baum,Bauman,Bayer,Bayer,Bau mgaertner,Baumgartner,
Bumgarner,Baur,Beckenbauer,Becker,Becker,Becker,Be ich,Beike,Berg,Bergmann,Berke,Berlitz,Berlitz,Beye r,Bielig,Biermann,Bilstein,
Blank,Blau,Bleek,Boch,Boehm,Böhling,Böhm,Böhm,B osch,Bothmann,Bouman,Brandt,Brandi,Braun,Braun,Bra un,Brehme,Brummer,Busch,
Bülow,Clausen,Claussen,Dabelow,Daimler,Dammeier,D ecker,Degen,Deuschmann,Deuschmann,Diederich,Dietri ch,Dresner,Dittmer,
Drechsler,Drescher,Drescher,Drechsler,Dreher,Dresd ner,Dresner,Dziallas,Ebersbach,Ebersbach,Eberhardt ,Eberhardt,Eichel,Eichmann,
Eichmann,Ehrlichmann,Eick,Eisenhauer,Eisen,Eisenho wer,Emerich,Emerich,Emmerich,Emmerich,Emmerich,End rass,Eschger,Esser,
Färber,Faust,Feierabend,Fiedler,Fischer,Fischer,F isher,Folkers,Folkers,Forstner,Fleischer,Fleischer ,Frankfurter,Frei,Freud,Frey,Freyberg,
Friedmann,Friedman,Frings,Fuchs,Fuchs,Fruehauf,Fue rst,Fuhrmann,Gaertner,Gante,Gärtner,Gelhaus,Gerbe r,Gersten,Gloeckner,
Glockner,Göseke,Gottlieb,Gottlieb,Gottlieb,Gottsc halk,Gruenewald,Grunewald,Grunwald,Gundlach,Gütsc how,Gysae,Haas,Hahn,Hahn,
Hahn,Hahn,Hänsel,Hänsel,Hänsel,Hardegen,Harowit z,Hartenstein,Hartmann,Hartmann,Heilmann,Heinz,Hei nz,Hellmann,Henke,Hentrop,
Herman,Hermann,Herrmann,Herrmann,Herrmann,Hertin,H ertz,Hertz,Hertz,Hertz,Hertzog,Hessler,Heyer,Heyse ,Hilse,Himmel,Hinrich,
Hinrich,Hirsch,Hirtl,Hoch,Hofmann,Hoffmann,Hoffman n,Hoffmann,Holstein,Holtz,Holtz,Hölzer,Holtzmann, Holtzinger,Hönemann,Hötzer,
Huber,Hueber,Ites,Jäckel,Jaeger,Jager,Jahnkow,Jan z,Jenisch,Jordon,Jung,Jung,Jungman,Junker,Kaeding, Kaeding,Kaestner,Kastner,
Kaiser,Kaiser,Kals,Kappel,Kasprzak,Kaufmann,Kaufma nn,Kaufmann,Kaufmann,Kaufmann,Keller,Keller,Keller ,Kiepert,Kilimann,Kissinger,
Kirsch,Kläbisch,Klein,Klein,Klein,Klein,Klein,Klu g,Kluge,Koch,Koehler,Koehler,Kohl,Kohl,Kohler,Köh ler,Köhler,Köhler,König,König,Koenig,
Konig,Kopp,Korth,Kraus,Kraus,Krause,Krause,Krause, Krause,Krech,Krey,Kriegel,Kroll,Krueger,Kruger,Kru pke,Kueper,Kuper,Kühl,Kühn,
Kuhnke,Kuppisch,Küsel,Lang,Lang,Lange,Lange,Lange ,Lasch,Lassen,Lehmann,Lehmann,Lehmann,Lehrer,Leidi g,Lemp,Libe,Limbach,
Lobin,Loewe,Loh,Löhr,Lösch,Lowe,Lowe,Lowe,Lube,L uft,Lüddecke,Lüth,Maddaus,Mahler,Mantyk,Maier,Ma us,Mauer,Maur,Maurer,Meier,
Meier,Meier,Merten,Metzger,Metzler,Meyer,Meyer,Mey er,Meyer,Miedza,Moehle,Moench,Mohr,Möller,Möller ,Muder,Mueller,Mueller,
Muench,Muller,Müller,Müller,Müller,Müller,Mül ler,Müller,Nacht,Nadel,Nagler,Nagel,Neudorf,Neuma nn,Neumann,Neustadt,Nimitz,Notsch,
Oehrn,Oesten,Oldekop,Oster,Osterhagen,Ostermann,Os termann,Pabst,Papst,Panknin,Pauss,Peters,Peters,Pe ters,Peters,Petersen,
Petersen,Petersen,Petersen,Petersen,Pfaff,Pfeffer, Pfeifer,Pfeifer,Pfeiffer,Pfeiffer,Piening,Popp,Pos ke,Prien,Probst,Radloff,Rappold,Rasch,
Reche,Reichmann,Reimann,Reinhard,Reinhardt,Reinhar dt,Reinprecht,Renken,Richter,Richter,Richter,Ritte r,Roethlisberger,Rogowsky,
Rohweder,Rollmann,Rollmann,Römer,Rösing,Rostin,R oth,Röther,Säck,Salman,Sammann,Sander,Schacht,Sc hacht,Schaefer,Schael,
Schäfer,Schäfer,Schäfer,Schall,Scheer,Schepke,S cherer,Schewe,Schiffer,Schlesinger,Schlesinger,Sch licht,Schmidt,Schmidt,Schmidt,
Schmidt,Schmidt,Schmidtt,Schmidtt,Schmitt,Schmitt, Schmitt,Schmitt,Schnee,Schneider,Schneider,Schneid er,Schneider,Scholtz,Scholz,
Scholz,Schönerr,Schreiber,Schreiber,Schreiner,Sch röder,Schröder,Schroeder,Schroeder,Schroder,Schr oder,Schuhart,Schulz,Schulz,
Schulz,Schultze,Schultze,Schuhmacher,Schuhmacher,S chuhmacher,Schultheiss,Schuster,Schütze,Schwab,Sc hwartz,Schwartz,Schwarz,
Schwarz,Schweitzer,Schweizer,Seiler,Switzer,Sellho rn,Simon,Smyczek,Soden,Söllig,Sommer,Spahr,Sporer ,Staats,Steimle,Steinweg,
Stephan,Strauss,Strauss,Strauss,Strelow,Strunk,Suh ren,Suhren,Suraj,Thalberg,Theiss,Theissen,Thewes,T homsen,Thurmann,Timm,
Timm,Topp,Traugott,Trojer,Trommler,Unger,Urner,Vog el,Vogler,Vogt,Waechter,Wagner,Wagner,Wagner,Wagne r,Walter,Weber,Weber,
Weber,Wechsler,Weiß,Weiß,Weiß,Weiß,Weingart,We iss,Weiss,Weiss,Weiss,Weiss,Weissmuller,Weisz,Weis z,Weisz,Werfel,Wessels,
Wiebe,Wiebe,Wiebe,Wiebe,Winkel,Wirth,Wirtz,Wissman n,Witt,Witte,Wolf,Wolf,Wolf,Worbs,Wulf,Wulf,Wurfel ,Zapp,Ziegler,Zimmer,
Zimmer,Zimmer,Zimmerman,Zimmerman,Zimmermann,Zimme rmann,Zimmermann,Zürn,Zweig,Zwick,Zwick

[Kpt. Lehmann]

THANKS MARHKIMOV!!! :up: :up:

[JScones]

:o

Wish I could add this many names - but unfortunately there's a system limit of 2048 characters plus commas. You'll find that you won't get many, if any, random names after about Haga and Krey respectively.

You could, however, prolly get in about 50-60 names each on top of the default list without hitting this limit.

If you want to trim your list, you may not know but you can also add names with spaces by surrounding with double quotes - ie "von Ronstedt".

Also, to preserve user data, SH3Cmdr never overwrites SH3Cmdr.ini, meaning that current users would still need to download and copy and paste. New users would get the extra names without needing to follow these steps.

And one more thing - not so much an issue with crewmen but it is with commanders - there's a 16 char name limit, so it may be best to limit the length of each name to around 8 chars (you'll also fit more in too ;) )

Great work though!

[Marhkimov]

Wish I could add this many names - but unfortunately there's a system limit of 2048 characters plus commas. You'll find that you won't get many, if any, random names after about Haga and Krey respectively.
aww, crap... i was hoping that wouldn't be the case... is there any way to get around the 2048 character system limit?? Perhaps use a seperate file or two (or three or four or five! ;) ) that contain only names??


If you want to trim your list, you may not know but you can add names with spaces by surrounding with double quotes - ie "von Ronstedt".
Yeah, I was wondering about that. Thanks!


Also, to preserve user data, SH3Cmdr never overwrites SH3Cmdr.ini, meaning that current users would still need to download and copy and paste. New users would get the extra names without needing to follow these steps.
Yep, that's why I didn't offer my own ini file as a download. I did not want anyone to lose their personal data on my behalf...


Great work though
It should be. I spent hours on this... :o

i hope it could possibly be made to work. :yep:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Very interested and watching :cool:

[Marhkimov]

And one more thing - not so much an issue with crewmen but it is with commanders - there's a 16 char name limit, so it may be best to limit the length of each name to around 8 chars (you'll also fit more in too ;) )

Got it! Ok, all of the long names will have to go...

[Marhkimov]

Considering that this is a videogame, the only real method that we have for knowing our crewmen, is by their names. That fact alone, makes me want to have a very deep and comphrehensive database of names, so that their is a similar variation in "personalities."

Perhaps you can already feel it, but I am very adamant about getting all of these names into SH3 Commander. It is not about getting my name in the credits or anything; I could care less... I just want my men to have more varied personalities. :yep:

[JScones]

If players are really keen on unlimited names, I could build a work around. It won't be the prettiest, but it will work. That is,

FIRST=Adalbert,Adalbert,Adam,Adel,Adolf,Adolf,Adol ph,Adolph,Adrian,Alberich...etc up to Fabian

FIRST2=Franz,Franz,Felix,Felix,Felix,Frank,Frank,F rank,Frank,Frank,Frank,Frank...etc up to Johann

FIRST3=Johann,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes, Jonas,Jonas,Jörg,Jörg...etc up to Siegfried

FIRST4=Siegfried,Siegfried,Siegmund,Sigmund,Silves ter,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan...etc up to Yvo

FIRST5...etc up to FIRST32767

The name split is just an example - as long as each line is no more than 2048 chars it should be OK. But I will only invest time in this if there is significant interest.

[Marhkimov]

You know what Jaeson? I will build the up the community interest, if necessary...

I am not only a first rate textureman, but I am also a second rate propagandaman. :lol:

[Marhkimov]

If players are really keen on unlimited names, I could build a work around. It won't be the prettiest, but it will work. That is,

FIRST=Adalbert,Adalbert,Adam,Adel,Adolf,Adolf,Adol ph,Adolph,Adrian,Alberich...etc up to Fabian

FIRST2=Franz,Franz,Felix,Felix,Felix,Frank,Frank,F rank,Frank,Frank,Frank,Frank...etc up to Johann

FIRST3=Johann,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes,Johannes, Jonas,Jonas,Jörg,Jörg...etc up to Siegfried

FIRST4=Siegfried,Siegfried,Siegmund,Sigmund,Silves ter,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan,Stefan...etc up to Yvo

FIRST5...etc up to FIRST32767

The name split is just an example - as long as each line is no more than 2048 chars it should be OK. But I will only invest time in this if there is significant interest.

Sounds great, but do you have an idea of how the programming will work?

Will it randomize between lists (FIRST1, FIRST2... to FIRST5) and then choose a name from that list?

That would work, but there is a flaw to that method. Rare names would have an increased chance of being chosen this way (i.e. names beginning with W,X,Y,Z). I'm not a programmer, but I am a theorist, and this is my two cents...

If you have another randomizing technique, what is it?

[Marhkimov]

Oh, and here's another thing I noticed...


Instead of writing Fritz nine times, like this:

...Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz ,Fritz...

would it be possible to do this?

...9Fritz... or ...Fritz9...



Now there is a REAL space-saver!

[Beery]

The problem, from my perspective, is the fact that the current names in the file are a commemoration of sorts. All of the names are derived from names of the commanders who scored 50,000 tons or more, the crewmen on the most successful U-boats, and the most decorated crewmen in the Ubootwaffe. I would not be too willing to have the names watered down (so to speak) by the addition of names that may have had nothing to do with the U-boat war.

Additional names are fine in theory, but I'd like to know how these new names were found - whether they have any historical significance?

[Marhkimov]

THey are GERMAN names, and that is their significance...

Not to bust your bubble or anything, but it was the German PEOPLE who fought in the war, not the German captains, leutenants, nor admirals...

IMOH, we give too much credit to the leaders and high ranking officers of WWII...
but what about THE GOOD OL' PEOPLE???





P.S. For the naming process, I used Germanic Geneology Databases... 99.9% accuracy.

[Beery]

THey are GERMAN names, and that is their significance...

Not to bust your bubble or anything, but it was the German PEOPLE who fought in the war, not the German captains, leutenants, nor admirals...

IMOH, we give too much credit to the leaders and high ranking officers of WWII...
but what about THE GOOD OL' PEOPLE???

Most of the names are regular crewmen, not captains, officers or other leaders.

[JScones]

Sounds great, but do you have an idea of how the programming will work?

Will it randomize between lists (FIRST1, FIRST2... to FIRST5) and then choose a name from that list?

That would work, but there is a flaw to that method. Rare names would have an increased chance of being chosen this way (i.e. names beginning with W,X,Y,Z). I'm not a programmer, but I am a theorist, and this is my two cents...

If you have another randomizing technique, what is it?
Are you telling me how to suck eggs? Just take a chill pill will ya.

Oh, and here's another thing I noticed...


Instead of writing Fritz nine times, like this:

...Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz,Fritz ,Fritz...

would it be possible to do this?

...9Fritz... or ...Fritz9...

Now there is a REAL space-saver!
No. It's single dimension only. I am most definitely *not* adding a second dimension to it.

[Marhkimov]

Well... on average 50 men crews and over 1,000 u-boats equals about 50,000 total names. Now, granted many of the names are repeats, but even if we had a third of 50,000 names, that is a helluva' lot of names!

And I do not even come close to 16,600 names... so you could argue that many of the "commemoration" names will still have a high chance of appearing... Only now we will be able to have a greater representation of the German population.

And there are many men who's names we have never heard of, will never read about, and will never know about, for as long as we live. That doesn't mean that they did not serve on a U-boat. This is just a generalization of who could have served on a U-boat during WWII. I mean, who can say for certain that Hildebrand Osterhagen and Gottlieb Strauss did not serve on a U-boat??

Sorry, I'm not trying to stir up controversy or anything. I just want more "personality" for our crews...



Are you telling me how to suck eggs? Just take a chill pill will ya.

HAHAHAHA! Sorry bud, sometimes I just get so worked up! It's only because I wish that I were a programmer. Then I wouldn't have to boss people around... I didn't mean anything by it...

[Beery]

All I'm saying is that I'd like to know where your names come from. Mine are derived specifically from U-boat commander and crew names. As such they are specific to the time and place - the names are representative of 1940s U-boat crewmen and also of North Germany where most of the crews came from. I have no idea if yours are as specific. Are they just German names picked at random? Are they at least Northern German names? Are they modern German names? Are they derived from 1920s popular boy's names? Or did you get them from names of modern German movie stars? I don't know. This may not seem important, but to a German playing the game, if he sees a name that is an anachronism, that tiny flaw will adversely impact the feeling of realism he gets from the game.

The thing is, if we're concerned at all with realism I believe we must impose rules that will achieve realistic names. If I was to just choose names at random from a modern phone book, the names generated would not be suitable as a simulation of 1940s names because common and popular names change very rapidly. These days you rarely see 'George' or 'Charles', but in the 1920s these were very popular names to give to kids. Sure, if no names lists were available for the game, a random list would have to do, but that's not the case in this situation.

[Marhkimov]

I edited this line from one of my previous posts, so you may not have seen it:

And there are many men who's names we have never heard of, will never read about, and will never know about, for as long as we live. That doesn't mean that they did not serve on a U-boat. This is just a generalization of who could have served on a U-boat during WWII. I mean, who can say for certain that Hildebrand Osterhagen and Gottlieb Strauss did not serve on a U-boat??



Bibliography:
http://german.about.com/library/blsurname01.htm
http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ger.php

I am also interested in historical accuracy, so... After doing research, I came to the conclusion that most ALL names are very ancient in nature. Meaning, there were very few Germanic names added after the 20th century, and same goes for almost all other Western cultures, excluding the US. So historical accuracy is pretty much intact.

As for the popularity issue of the 1940s era, I may have to do more research on that. Though, you have to admit, information such as that is very difficult to come by... I'm betting that I won't be able to simply "Google" it. Most name popularity lists do not go back so far in time... In order to obtain more accuracy for era names, we would probably have to do extensive research on our own, and I don't know of anyone who would be willing to go to that extent... I most likely will NOT do that much research...

And of course, my list will have to be checked and screened, preferably by a person of German decent. I hope that he/she will sweep through my list of names in search of any anachronisms. I would hate to release incorrect names...

And all I ask is that my list of names be given consideration, if and only if for the fact that I spent so much time and effort on it...




All I'm saying is that I'd like to know where your names come from. Mine are derived specifically from U-boat commander and crew names. As such they are specific to the time and place - the names are representative of 1940s U-boat crewmen and also of North Germany where most of the crews came from.

Really? I did not know that most crews came from Nothern Germany. Any specific reasons why?

Although the United States is a totally different country than Germany, I devised this contrasting but coinciding reasoning: Without proper statistical analysis, it would be incorrect to say that coastal states produce more seamen than infantry. And it also goes without saying that inner states do not necessarily produce more infantry than seamen. So why then, would Northern Germany produce more U-boat crewmen than South/East/West Germany? Of course, there may yet be a logical reason for all this...

[Beery]

...I did not know that most crews came from Nothern Germany. Any specific reasons why?

Although the United States is a totally different country than Germany, I devised this contrasting but coinciding reasoning: Without proper statistical analysis, it would be incorrect to say that coastal states produce more seamen than infantry. And it also goes without saying that inner states do not necessarily produce more infantry than seamen. So why then, would Northern Germany produce more U-boat crewmen than South/East/West Germany? Of course, there may yet be a logical reason for all this...

There is a logical reason. U-boat crews had to be technically experienced, and technical experience tends to be found in industrial centres. In Germany those are located in the North and North-West.

From 'Neither Sharks Nor Wolves':

"In 1944 British Intelligence studies of German POWs indicated that out of every group of ten U-boat petty officers and enlisted men, four came from North Germany, three from the Rhineland or Westphalia, and the remaining three proportionately divided between central Germany and all other parts of the Reich combined."

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well I wish I could vote yes more than once... and I too have modelled historic crews and will continue to do so... and make them compatible with SH3 Cmdr... with no offense intended to any one in any way.

Now there is a bit of a drawback to "historic" crews... it feels wierd sometimes to boss little pixelated people around... that actually lived and died on U-Boats.

I guess I have a bleeding heart.

Anyway, having a totally fictional crew using fictional German names... is no worse than playing SH3 in general... without subtracting from realism.

I understand there are limits to SH3 Commander, but I also personally see MIXING historic U-boatmen around and assigning them randomly to boats via SH3 Cmdr rather wierd.
(again... just my opinion)

What I'd like to see is the ability to choose from totally fictional crews or totally accurate crews... right down to the lowliest Matrosen.

The more options the better IMHO. I don't think my idea goes too far.

SH3 Cmdr seems to be an interface that allows for both realism enthusiasts as well as other schools of thought. There is a bit of a sense of community here and SH3 Cmdr only adds to it.

Lets not be quickly negative about any change that is easily implemented.

I am also conscious of modders who are running out of steam... even modding small things can turn into tasks much larger than apparent. My hat is off to everyone who has modded ANYTHING themselves.

BTW... I'm sure Marhkimov doesn't feel like he is anyone's boss... seriously there are no bosses here to begin with.

I think it is great that so much is going on lately that ya feel like ya have to run to keep up... and it makes for a few misunderstandings.

We all serve a purpose here... Lets finish all the things that we've started and work together where we can.

[Beery]

What I'd like to see is the ability to choose from totally fictional crews or totally accurate crews... right down to the lowliest Matrosen...

My point is that there's a big difference between fiction and fantasy. Fictional crew names would have some basis in reality, with names that wouldn't have looked odd to people at the time. The hard fact is, Marhkimov's prospective alternative crew names file includes three Daniels, six Dirks, and a number of other names that just sound odd to me. I would dread having people like Yvo Austerlitz, Bonifaz Weissmuller, Danny Fisher or ex-70's porn star Dirk Decker serving on my boat. :-j

The problem with the above poll is that it's biased. Of course people are going to want more names - more variety is always good. So people are naturally going to vote for the choice Marhkimov wants them to vote for. But what the poll is really asking is "which version of the names files do you prefer - the Marhkimov fantasy one or the deeply researched Beery one?" At some point Marhkimov is going to be saying that most people want his version, although that's not what his poll is really saying. I could put up a poll saying "which do you prefer, historically accurate names or fantasy names" and we would see the opposite result. But such polls are misleading because they are spinning the result in the way they are worded.

[CCIP]

I'd suggest checking out the crew lists on ubootwaffe.net. You can draw your data there; and it'll sure be historical.

Personally, although I usually like them, I have to say I'm a bit irritated to constantly get names that 'ring a bell' for me - a boat full of Mohr, Suhren and Topp seems awkward to someone who's read enough about these guys...

Expand. ubootwaffe.net's lists should give you all the realistic names you need :hmm:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

What I'd like to see is the ability to choose from totally fictional crews or totally accurate crews... right down to the lowliest Matrosen...

My point is that there's a big difference between fiction and fantasy. Fictional crew names would have some basis in reality, with names that wouldn't have looked odd to people at the time. The hard fact is, Marhkimov's prospective alternative crew names file includes three Daniels, six Dirks, and a number of other names that just sound odd to me. I would dread having people like Yvo Austerlitz, Bonifaz Weissmuller, Danny Fisher or ex-70's porn star Dirk Decker serving on my boat. :-j

Which names are incorporated is really subjective... and yes... generally speaking having crewmen with Germanic names is great... and I think GOOD in-game.

However, in my own reseach and crew modding I ran across and included some names that appeared to be Czech, Italian, Russian, and even what appeared to be Jewish... (don't kick me here people) ... all serving on U-boats during active war patrols.

For the sake of accuracy... there are a few naturally included in my crew mods.

Regarding porn... I wouldn't know... I don't go there.

[Beery]

Personally, although I usually like them, I have to say I'm a bit irritated to constantly get names that 'ring a bell' for me - a boat full of Mohr, Suhren and Topp seems awkward to someone who's read enough about these guys...

That's why the list is user-configurable. If you don't like a name you can just text edit it to remove or replace the offending names. I don't see why Marhkimov wants to replace a perfectly good names list. If people want options, why can't he simply release a mod for SH3 Commander which uses his expanded names? It's not like the SH3 Commander names are in some hard-coded format. I just don't see why we should fix something that isn't broken (especially when it's something I spent a good couple of days building). Building more space for names is one thing, and I'm for it, but changing the list I designed and turning it into something different 'just because we can' is not something I can agree to. I've been working on the SH3 Commander mod with Jaesen since April, and I must say it's a hard pill to swallow when someone comes along with ideas to disassemble parts of that effort. If it was clearly an improvement I wouldn't mind at all, but as I see it, it isn't.

[Marhkimov]

Hey, I haven't modded anything yet... it is totally optional... and I was only hoping for Jaeson to add it to SH3 Commander. And in all fairness, it was just a thought...



Yes, I agree... Danny, Dirk, and maybe certain other names are out of place, but no one ever said that I was perfect...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Personally, although I usually like them, I have to say I'm a bit irritated to constantly get names that 'ring a bell' for me - a boat full of Mohr, Suhren and Topp seems awkward to someone who's read enough about these guys...

That's why the list is user-configurable. If you don't like a name you can just text edit it to remove or replace the offending names. I don't see why Marhkimov wants to replace a perfectly good names list. If people want options, why can't he simply release a mod for SH3 Commander which uses his expanded names? It's not like the SH3 Commander names are in some hard-coded format. I just don't see why we should fix something that isn't broken (especially when it's something I spent a good couple of days building). Building more space for names is one thing, and I'm for it, but changing the list I designed and turning it into something different 'just because we can' is not something I can agree to. I've been working on the SH3 Commander mod with Jaesen since April, and I must say it's a hard pill to swallow when someone comes along with ideas to disassemble parts of that effort. If it was clearly an improvement I wouldn't mind at all, but as I see it, it isn't.

They are only suggestions... Do what you will in conjunction with what Jaeson wants.

What I have suggested is an easily altered issue/addition IF Jaeson felt he wanted to look at the issue... It is NOT disassembly and is of course totally up to the builder.

If there isn't room for other opinions/ suggestions please say so.

[Sailor Steve]

I agree with the others on this one: I would rather have a list of names who 'could be anybody' than only distinguished captains and crew members. Any last name in the Berlin telephone directory should be a possibility.

[Marhkimov]

Although you could look at the poll question and consider it to be a sort of spin, technically, it is proficient and sufficient in every regard. Would you like for SH3Cmdr to have more names in the RANDOM NAME DATABASE??? It is telling the entire truth: it is asking if people are in support of MORE varied names in the database. To certain people, my names might seem fantastical or ludicrous... But if so, I can and will go back to edit them; I only aim at pleasing people. All I have really done up to this point, is ADD ON to the list of current U-boat names. (I did remove a few Fritz's...)


So what's the big deal if Dirk Decker is a porn star? For all I know, that is a totally legitimate German name... Only our perception of it has degraded since it became synonymous with a porn star. Are we going to allow our current 21st century perceptions to dictate the way we play a videogame? If we want realism, we have to accept that Dirk Decker may very well have existed back in 1945.


And so what? These names may or may not be totally and historically correct in every aspect of the word "history." THEY ARE JUST NAMES! I almost feel sorry for the fact that I brought this up in the first place. Who cares if I have Fritz Prien or Dirk Decker as my engineer. No matter what his name is, he'll still be my damn engineer. Sheesh... :nope:

[Beery]

If there isn't room for other opinions/ suggestions please say so.

I think it's ironic that the SH3 mod-makers should be accused of not being open to suggestions. The entire mod is basically the result of player suggestions.

Of course there's room for suggestions, but that's not what was happening in this thread. The original post 'suggested' that Jaesen use an 'updated' version of a mod that I'd created. Apparently I had died and put Marhkimov in charge of all the stuff I created for the mod. Sure, Jaesen is the main guy behind this effort, but should that mean that people just assume my contributions can simply be co-opted and replaced by anyone who pops up with a new idea? I mean no one even asked me if they could use the list of names I had created, and all of a sudden I find someone has not only borrowed my list and added names that fundamantally change the meaning of it - which would be fine in and of itself, BUT he is also trying to get his own version of it published in a mod that I co-created, all WHILE I'M STILL ACTIVELY WORKING ON IT! I have no problem with people using my stuff and altering it to suit their needs (even without my go-ahead - in fact I urge them to do so), but I do care just a tad when someone borrows my stuff and uses it as a basis from which to attempt to supplant my own work IN MY OWN BLOODY MOD! The very idea is insulting. I mean many of you folks are modmakers yourselves. How would you feel? Would it make you happy? I don't bloody well think so.

What I'm saying is that it would have been nice to have been consulted before the attempt was made to change the SH3 Commander crew list. I am, after all, part of the team behind it and the author of the list itself. A quick note would have been polite at least. The lack of consideration just makes it seem like Marhkimov was hoping I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, enough said.

[Marhkimov]

By all means, improve my mods and release them as your own... I certainly wouldn't feel insulted to use them on my system.

In fact, I'd feel quite pleased if my mods could inspire people to create their own mods, regardless if they credit me or not... I'm not into modding for the ego boost or anything like that. I just want people to have a more fully "realized" videogame experience.

[Beery]

I agree with the others on this one: I would rather have a list of names who 'could be anybody' than only distinguished captains and crew members. Any last name in the Berlin telephone directory should be a possibility.

I agree. I think many such lists should be freely available - the more the merrier. But that's not what's at issue here. The point is, I just don't think that I should be expected to stand mute while someone urges my partner to remove my own work from a mod that I'm still actively working on.

[Marhkimov]

Ok, sorry Beery, I totally agree with your standpoint.

I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I didn't think deeply enough about my request.


So I guess we can call it a stand-off. My sincere apologies Beery.


But through this "ordeal", we now know something for certain: that people do desire variety and free choice...

So with that in mind, I think Jaeson can go ahead and make it so that the name lists are split into multiple files. BUT, the original release should still bear your historical names.

I will come in later and add my modded name list, as a seperate addon...


What do ya think, Beery? If at least we aren't friends, I hope we can agree on this... :yep:

[Marhkimov]

The last thing that I want to do on these boards is to create bad blood.

...But I fear I may have already done so... Sorry again...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

If there isn't room for other opinions/ suggestions please say so.

What is that supposed to mean? Of course there's room for suggestions, but that's not what was happening in this thread. The original post 'suggested' that Jaesen use an 'updated' version of a mod that I'd created. Apparently I had died and put Marhkimov in charge of all the stuff I created for the mod. Sure, Jaesen is the main guy behind this effort, but should that mean that my contributions are simply to be co-opted and replaced by anyone who pops up with a new idea? I mean no one even asked me if they could use the list of names I had created, and all of a sudden I find someone has borrowed my list, added names that fundamantally change the meaning of it, and is trying to get his own version of it published in a mod that I co-created! I have no problem with people using my stuff and altering it to suit their needs (even without my go-ahead - in fact I urge them to do so), but I do care just a tad when someone borrows my stuff and uses it as a basis from which to attempt to supplant my own work IN MY OWN BLOODY MOD! The very idea is insulting. I mean many of you folks are modmakers yourselves. How would you feel? Would it make you happy? I don't bloody well think so.

Anyway, enough said.

Marhkimov has also stated that he has come up with a name list of his own.

I am sure that looking at the file structure of SH3 was pretty much a requirement of generating such a list... and how a list of German names can be owned by a person I find a bit perplexing. This can be looked at as public domain.

I fully believe however, that as long as creators are recognized (because modding is real work) that blanket permission for usage as FREEWARE by the community should always be given... to include usage of individual files, and the blending of said files into future mods.

This forum is entitled the "SH3 Mods Workshop." Which infers an equality among us whether we build large mods, small mods, or compile them. Respectfully, it is not titled "The SH3 Mods Workshop- Beery's Viewpoint Final."

The closer we get to some fixes... will often call for compromise.

Also, frequent EMPHATIC resistance is bad for the unity of spirit you often find here and can be costly in terms of future discovery.

To be specific... I would take it as a complement if someone took any of my mods and added to or altered to taste... the work that I started. Wow, I'd feel great about it!

Getting your blood pressure up so often and being so emotional is counter productive to effective moderation. It should be expected that a moderator is rather dispassionate so as to not abuse the privelidges of his station, or be an arbiter for the validation of creativity.

Beery, my statement seems pretty clear to me. If the door is closed to the incorporation of popular ideas into SH3 Commander, would you please state so. The poles are indicating a need/desire for change. If you plan to veto the suggestion of changing the random crewmen available in SH3 Cmdr... just let us know and we will find an alternative.

[Beery]

The last thing that I want to do on these boards is to create bad blood.

...But I fear I may have already done so... Sorry again...

Well, I apologise for my part too. Maybe I overreacted. No bad blood here.

[Beery]

Getting your blood pressure up so often and being so emotional...

If you're going to make accusations, please cite specific examples of emotionality or rising blood pressure on my part on forums I moderate.

Sure, it's true of my recent posts in this thread, but I'm not sure where else it has happened. If you want me fired as a moderator, talk to Neal. I have no feelings either way on it.

[Marhkimov]

No no, that's ok... it is not yet in our best interest to have you fired... ;) ;) ;)


We just want some choice over the matter of names...

Beery, you did notice my previous post, right? I'm not going to impose my list of German names upon SH3 Commander. I want it to be totally optional.

[Beery]

We just want some choice over the matter of names...

I have no power over that (anyone can have any names they want in that file). Even if I did have the power to prevent people from using thir own lists, I would never impose such a restriction. Choice was never the issue here.

[Marhkimov]

So...... What does Jaeson have to say about all of this???

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No no, that's ok... it is not yet in our best interest to have you fired... ;) ;) ;)


We just want some choice over the matter of names...

... and the ability to present ideas, information, mods, and hard questions without the expectation of censorship or retribution when time is taken to employ tactful statements.

I can immediately think of four instances... to answer your previous question to me. However, these conversations are divisive and can factionalize the community more than it is already. Let's handle dirty laundry away from this place.
If you remain interested... I will PM you the examples... later. I have yet to sleep following a busy 24 hour shift and I plan to very soon. I've had to stay awake to run important errands and wait on repair technicians... when I'm normally sleeping instead.

Additionally, I'll tell you what I think are good things you have done.... Firstly.... right here and now.... THE FLOTILLA (how CAN you live without it...) MOD!

[Marhkimov]

No dirty laundry, guys.... Let's be nice for the time being...

[Beery]

So...... What does Jaeson have to say about all of this???

Jaesen has probably slept through it all, and he's probably lucky ;) . I do know that before all the fighting started he told me that he had already built your request in. I think that means a separate names file with more space for longer lists.

At the time, when he asked me about it, I told him: "I don't mind how it's done. My only real consideration is that the names should be proper names for the period." So, contrary to the impression people here may have, I was never against the idea of optional name lists.

[Beery]

If you remain interested... I will PM you the examples... later. ..

I'm not sure what good that would do. I already know what you think the examples are. ;) We've discussed it, and if you still have issues with the way I moderate, you really should talk to Neal. As I said, I don't mind either way whether I keep the job or not.

[Marhkimov]

So, uhhh... Let's all escape with our egos intact, ok? We don't need to knock each other out anymore. It's a good thing that Jaeson was asleep; he didn't have to witness any of this... Although it is a message board and he will come by later to read it... :hmm:

[Beery]

So, uhhh... Let's all escape with our egos intact, ok? We don't need to knock each other out anymore. It's a good thing that Jaeson was asleep; he didn't have to witness any of this... Although it is a message board and he will come by later to read it... :hmm:

Well, I could delete the whole thread. That's probably what Lehmann expects me to do. :-j

[Marhkimov]

No, don't delete it... History, no matter the content, deserves to be recorded. :yep:

And as it turns out, things didn't get TOO far out of hand. We're all grown ups in here...



EDIT: Rough Nights at Langtrees Brothel????????????????? WTH?!?!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

So, uhhh... Let's all escape with our egos intact, ok? We don't need to knock each other out anymore. It's a good thing that Jaeson was asleep; he didn't have to witness any of this... Although it is a message board and he will come by later to read it... :hmm:

Well, I could delete the whole thread. That's probably what Lehmann expects me to do. :-j

You are lucky this :damn: crewman is so :damn: :damn: fatigued that he can hardly :damn: see straight. :damn: it!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

.... and no comment :doh:

Why does everything have to be so complicated.... STOP!!! DON'T ANSWER THAT!!!

Gut Nacht! and S!

(Ritter von Lehmann charges Spandaus)

(Woops... wrong forum)

[Beery]

No, don't delete it... History, no matter the content, deserves to be recorded. :yep:

And as it turns out, things didn't get TOO far out of hand. We're all grown ups in here...

I wouldn't delete it anyway. It doesn't have any ad-hominem attacks or insults in it, and the off-topic attempts from Lehmann to make it into the 'Beery is the evil moderator' thread have flopped.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No, don't delete it... History, no matter the content, deserves to be recorded. :yep:

And as it turns out, things didn't get TOO far out of hand. We're all grown ups in here...

I wouldn't delete it anyway. It doesn't have any ad-hominem attacks or insults in it.

Ya know... THAT could be one in itself, Beery.

I will declare a slap-fight at dawn, okay?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No, don't delete it... History, no matter the content, deserves to be recorded. :yep:

And as it turns out, things didn't get TOO far out of hand. We're all grown ups in here...

I wouldn't delete it anyway. It doesn't have any ad-hominem attacks or insults in it, and the off-topic attempts from Lehmann to make it into the 'Beery is the evil moderator' thread have flopped.

NO!!! THAT WAS NOT MY AIM AND YOUR STATEMENT IS AN AD-HOMINEM ATTACK/INSULT!!!!

[Marhkimov]

Ok ok, you two can slap-fight each other all you guys want...

but just don't lock this thread, alright? ;)

[JScones]

:o Gee, haven't I missed out on the fun.

Firstly, my only comment on the content of any names list that is included with SH3Cmdr is that it reflects names of the period. We all have an Uncle Jack, George, Edward, Harry (or region equivalents) but I don't think many of us would have an Uncle Jesse, Bailey or Cody.

However, acknowledging that what you do with SH3Cmdr when it's on your hard drive is up to you (within the realms of the License Agreement ;)), I have made a change - with the creation of the Cfg folder and files I was thinking about it anyway, so this is just a catalyst.

In the Cfg subfolder of the next release of SH3Cmdr, there will be three lst files: Names_first.lst, Names_last.lst and Names_places.lst. These are, as the extension suggests, simply list files. That is:

Adolf
Albrecht
Albrecht
Alfred
Alfred
Alfred
Alfred
Amelung
Andreas
etc

The files will contain, by default, names commensurate with the period, viz Beery's researched names. However, if between now and release my co-designer gives the OK to add more, thy shall be done.

However, users will be able to add as many names as their system's memory will support.

The lists in the SH3Cmdr.ini will no longer be drawn upon. Users who have currently modified names will need to add to the new lst files.

[zombiewolf]

:|\ Y'all are trippen me out!

Y"ALL?... Oh My GoD, I'm elvis :dead:

[Marhkimov]

:|\ Y'all are trippen me out!

Don't tell me you read all of this crap... :roll:

[zombiewolf]

:rotfl: Thought it was a Monty Python Gag....
waiting for ....the parrot is pineing for the fiords :|\