Published on 2 August 2024

[Ruby2000]

Hi,

Uboat leaves the Early Access phase on 2 August and is published.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/494840/announcements/detail/6572523942435696664

https://www.level65.de/lvl0/uboat/pics_devlog/devlog7.png



Cheers Ruby

[jimbob]

Nice! I know what Im playing this fall :D

[FinessSzabi]

Eagerly waiting! :P:Kaleun_Cheers:

[XLjedi]

I hope they fix the Scapa Flow mission before release. It's historically embarrassing.

[jlc930]

So, are people here also seeing this early announcement of the final release as good news? But it’s only good news if you think the game is already perfect... Because for sure, in two weeks after leaving the Beta stage, the devs will not start to work more on it. . . :haha:

Currently, this game is made for casual players, with just a few options in the settings for those who want something less childish. But if you put aside the beautiful graphics and all the mini-games (like dressing the crew, diving in a suit on wrecks, researching technology at HQ, or scripted "missions"), you get something that an old, modded SH3 can challenge and surpass in some aspects.. One already mentioned, is the horrible UI of the Uboat game...
(Yes, the TDC is very well made in the Uboat game, but it’s not enough to make it a good simulator.)
Keep playing this game long enough, and you will notice all the little "bugs" (I say bugs, but mostly they are just barely finished features or annoyances due to misconceptions). You can easily overlook one of them, but there are so many that sooner or later they will finally make you give up.

in short, the only hope mow is in the modders. But even if making patches with Harmony/Reflection is easier than hacking an .exe, there are still things that will be too difficult and even impossible. :hmmm:

[nihilcat]

So, are people here also seeing this early announcement of the final release as good news? But it’s only good news if you think the game is already perfect... Because for sure, in two weeks after leaving the Beta stage, the devs will not start to work more on it. . . :haha:

Currently, this game is made for casual players, with just a few options in the settings for those who want something less childish. But if you put aside the beautiful graphics and all the mini-games (like dressing the crew, diving in a suit on wrecks, researching technology at HQ, or scripted "missions"), you get something that an old, modded SH3 can challenge and surpass in some aspects.. One already mentioned, is the horrible UI of the Uboat game...
(Yes, the TDC is very well made in the Uboat game, but it’s not enough to make it a good simulator.)

We are not going anywhere after leaving the Early Access.

Could you describe your specific annoyances with the UI?

[jlc930]

I cannot describe each annoying problem of this bulky UI one by one, but let me give you a good example of what’s wrong with it. (And also, you have the previous comment of XLjedi )

Ok, so imagine that your lucky hydrophone operator hears something. Of course, you want to know information about this sound contact. Well, all the data you need is scattered at the three corners of the screen... LOL
6035
6036
6037
(Screenshot taken with all settings options for 100% realism,
Contacts are not automatically drawn on the map.)

Can we just have some buttons to ask the hydrophone guy about the nearest sound contact or request him to track a warship, like in the SH3 game ?
Nah, instead, have fun hovering with your mouse each icon to find which one is the nearest. (contacts icons are not sorted by distances)

The SH3 UI provides a button for each thing you can ask.
So, in SH3, if you want to know the current weather, you click, and your crew answers. The same goes if you want information about course duration or range.

Uboat game, seems "afraid" of not showing enough to the player, so they put a lot of things everywhere, expecting that it will please everyone.

You don't like to see your crew members at the right of the screen? Well, you can also have them on the left side.
Neither of those? No problem, we also put your crew members in the middle of the screen.
6038

And once again, I repeat,
what I am showing right now is just a small issue that we can overlook.
The true problem is the sheer number of these small issues.

[nihilcat]

Each of the places that you've shown on the first 3 screenshots displays exactly the same data. Your complaint that you have to look at each of those places separately doesn't really hold. There is some intentional redundancy to make it more accessible, depending on the user's preferences.

[jlc930]

Each of the places that you've shown on the first 3 screenshots displays exactly the same data. Your complaint that you have to look at each of those places separately doesn't really hold. There is some intentional redundancy to make it more accessible, depending on the user's preferences.
No, that's not true. The screenshots are a bit blurry due to resolution limitations, but you can check in-game yourself. On the right side, you have the "notifications" icons, which only give the bearings of contacts. If you want the estimated range of one of them, you need to move your mouse to the other side of the screen to select or hover over one of them in the list.
(Note: what I am showing here is not a modded version of the game.)

There is some intentional redundancy to make it more accessible, depending on the user's preferences.
Yes exactly, and i am complaining about the result.
"As trying to please everyone, we end up pleasing no one."
Even Jesus Christ failed at that; they killed him. ;)

[nihilcat]

No, that's not true. The screenshots are a bit blurry due to resolution limitations, but you can check in-game yourself. On the right side, you have the "notifications" icons, which only give the bearings of contacts. If you want the estimated range of one of them, you need to move your mouse to the other side of the screen to select or hover over one of them in the list.
(Note: what I am showing here is not a modded version of the game.)

We've added the bearing display to this tooltip quite recently, about 2 weeks ago. Do I understand it right, that you would like to have this information in the selection panel as well? If so, that's not going to be a problem and we will add it.

[jlc930]

We've added the bearing display to this tooltip quite recently, about 2 weeks ago. Do I understand it right, that you would like to have this information in the selection panel as well? If so, that's not going to be a problem and we will add it.

No, thanks, no need to work for me.
Instead, continue to satisfy the casual players; They are your customers !
And they just enable automatic contact tracking on map, so ....
:yeah:

[RAM]

No, thanks, no need to work for me.
Instead, continue to satisfy the casual players; They are your customers !
And they just enable automatic contact tracking on map, so ....
:yeah:

You've just embarrassed yourself. You got the attention of a developer of the game, who's asked you nicely what can he do to make your experience with his game better, trying to help you out, and you throw it in his face, in the meantime insulting how other players experience the game too.

Yeah, if it pisses guys like you off, I like the 2 of August release date even more.




And for the record, and coming from someone who played SH3 and SH4 with no map contacts for YEARS...

No map contacts is hardcore mode. Not realistic mode. Skippers in real life didn't do plotting jobs. Heck some of them didn't even do firing solutions, they would have the XO working on that for him. If what you want is realism and immersion, put those contacts on again, and stop acting like an elitist douche because you have them off. Now, you can have a problem with the way map contacts on is represented (it is far too accurate), and I'll agree. Completely, in fact.

But act in a derogatory manner towards other players just because they play a single-player game in a different way than yours, it just makes you an ass.


If you were in a submarine as a captain you wouldn't be doing the navigation yourself, you wouldn't be making plottings yourself. Neither of that was your job. Your job would be making jugdement calls and decisions, giving orders to your crew. Others would do the legwork and present you with the information so you could do your job. That was their job.

You want to do the legwork yourself. That's fine, perfectly fine in fact. You want to play in hardcore mode where you not only are the skipper, but the navigator and XO at the same time. You're entitled to play the game whatever way you want. But the moment you step in and berate others, or somehow deminish their importance because they don't play your way (which again, is hardcore, but not realistic nor immersive), then you're acting like a very non-nice person (to put it in nice, non-moderated words).

[RAM]

Each of the places that you've shown on the first 3 screenshots displays exactly the same data. Your complaint that you have to look at each of those places separately doesn't really hold. There is some intentional redundancy to make it more accessible, depending on the user's preferences.


Now we're treated with the non-polite a$$ in the manner he deserves...

Yeah, the UI is not perfect. He might be a pain in the butt but he has a point on one thing - you can't directly ask for reports from the officers. This can be particularily felt with sonarmen while trying to track a particular target...

Another instance, on the video I uploaded just yesterday, I was given a "ship spotted" report, couldn't find it anywhere (until I sent the crew into battlestations and one of my leaders to command to increase sighting range as much as possible, so it would be shown on the map). I want to go up to the bridge, ask the officer of the watch "ok, where is he?" and get a bearing in return.

In SH4 you could ask for a continuous stream of information over time about the bearing change of a given contact from the guy at the hydrophone station, you can't in Uboat, the same as you can't directly ask for reports concerning their station, and having that could make the game better in quite many ways indeed.

I'm guessing it's something that's not easy to implement this late in the dev cycle, but yeah, I mean, I like the UI and I love the game, but it can be improved.


Oh and BTW...you gave us a working compass not that long ago...can you pretty please also give us a RPM dial so we don't have just 5 speeds forward to choose from? ... pretty, pretty plz? ;)


Amazing job with the game. Loving it to bits :)

[jlc930]

Well, I think I was polite enough. Do you see any insults in my message? And at the end, I declined politely, saying "thanks." Or maybe you consider "casual player" an insult? There is neither hate nor contempt in my critique of this game. And I do know that marking contacts on the map could be done by a petty officer in reality, but certainly not in the way it's done in the game when you enable the option (like radar scanning twenty ships of a convoy in one second...).

Sorry, but what I see from you is someone jealous who wants to push me out to seize the opportunity to tell the developers everything you desire, thinking that with some girly pretty pleazzz (kind of a virtual BJ, yuk...), you'll get everything you want, while saying at the same time that you wish to see the final version of this game released soon... That's neither very smart nor fair play. :o

[hombre al agua]

i am pretty sure that jlc930 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=426768) is the same guy in the uboat steam forums spamming provocations and copy/pasting same messages like "This game will only satisfy the Homer Simpsons and casual players"

[RAM]

Wow. Just wow.

[XLjedi]

As I continue to play and learn how Uboat UI works, it is a tad unusual and designed around a concept that a crew was going to be working out firing solutions with a countdown timer.

So, individual firing solutions are saved by target. You can click on hydrophone bearings and in the lower left corner of the screen see solution options on a target-by-target basis. That is a bit unfortunate as the TDC didn't save multiples of solutions and what we are wanting to do is setup the TDC for a future attack position. It is certainly doable, just a tad clunky.

There are some elements of the UI that result in 100% mode giving you perfect information on target movement that lets you plot the TC with greater accuracy and ease than playing with map updates on.

The chrono-speed tool is just weird. It seems to work regardless of ownship movement. So if you are on an intercept course (constant bearing decreasing range) and you use the chrono-speed tool, the device ignores the laws of relative motion and goes into this predesigned "ship scan mode" where the target ship just magically moves when it should not. It's like it instantly sets ownship speed to zero without actually changing your speed. It's kind of jarring when I turn that thing on. How does the scope know how to scan the ship to give me the speed like that? :hmmm:

The early model TDC does not have AoB update capability, but the attack scope UI (when E-locked on target) does. You can use the attack scope UI to calculate the AoB of any ship if the TC is known. Which I kinda like, but the vast majority of people playing probably have no idea.

I'm getting used to the UI and the cheaty 100% game that lets me use a sonar beam to pinpoint targets and determine TC in 2 clicks. :ping: I could rely on mods to remove it, but I kinda like having the shortcuts too. I could do the TMA and figure out the course the hard way, but I might not feel like doing it 3 or 4 times per patrol. Might do it once, and then say, "Meh, I could do it if I want but this shortcut is nice." ...and I still get 100% achievement credit.

[Captain Wreckless]

i am pretty sure that jlc930 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=426768) is the same guy in the uboat steam forums spamming provocations and copy/pasting same messages like "This game will only satisfy the Homer Simpsons and casual players"


:har:

[Herr Graf]

Well, I think I was polite enough. Do you see any insults in my message? And at the end, I declined politely, saying "thanks." Or maybe you consider "casual player" an insult? There is neither hate nor contempt in my critique of this game. And I do know that marking contacts on the map could be done by a petty officer in reality, but certainly not in the way it's done in the game when you enable the option (like radar scanning twenty ships of a convoy in one second...).

Sorry, but what I see from you is someone jealous who wants to push me out to seize the opportunity to tell the developers everything you desire, thinking that with some girly pretty pleazzz (kind of a virtual BJ, yuk...), you'll get everything you want, while saying at the same time that you wish to see the final version of this game released soon... That's neither very smart nor fair play. :o

Lol,
Just wow, what a clueless, rude, jerk you are.

[TheNolan]

One thing I noticed about following this game is the devs listen to the community, and the game has added a lot of realism elements from a year ago when I was playing. It seems like they are committed to a good simulation and are learning as they go, like me. Honestly I would never have gotten into heavily modded sh3 & 4 without U-boat so thanks for that, and I think that they also want to provide both experiences (the TDCs they have modelled a good example of this)

[Aktungbby]

The Nolan?:Kaleun_Salute:...after a year-long sient run!:up:

[XLjedi]

One thing I noticed about following this game is the devs listen to the community, and the game has added a lot of realism elements from a year ago when I was playing. It seems like they are committed to a good simulation and are learning as they go, like me. Honestly I would never have gotten into heavily modded sh3 & 4 without U-boat so thanks for that, and I think that they also want to provide both experiences (the TDCs they have modelled a good example of this)

I have specifically seen, inside the last month, at least two or three items that I have flagged in forum posts addressed by the devs. They deserve much praise.

[s0cks]

I still find the game UI somewhat clunky to operate imo.


Having to hold ALT when trying to operate the sub in periscope mode is a huge bugbear of mine. Turns out it's a toggle switch now. Not sure how long it's been that way, but I'm glad I realised this.
Periscopes move on their own when not in focus, presumably because the officer is moving it, but it is frustrating when switching views to come back and it's moved. Turns out this was caused by a mod.
Rotation speed of the periscopes is slow. I get that you can zoom out and then hold shift, but it's just more steps to go through, and you can't do that with binoculars.
When the boat moves the periscope moves to maintain heading, rather than maintaining relative bearing with the uboat (there is mod that fixes this but it also breaks locking onto target which may or may not be a good thing depending on how you play).
No way to get regular continued updates from watchmen or hydrophone operators on the target's bearing.

Also the lack of attack disk, RAOBF, and correction charts is a pain if you're trying to do manual torpedo solutions or interceptions. There is a mod for the attack disk which is welcome even if not perfect (such as how it can't be opened from map screen and the compass doesn't self align) but I would LOVE an RAOBF!



I also really don't like how ships sink in 10seconds. I tried realistic ship sinking mod but that just seemed to make the ships point their bow out of the water toward the sky each time and never fully sink. Perhaps that will get fixed by the modder.



Oh and one more thing, that is kind of a shame, although not a deal breaker. The way the ship floats on the waves as well as dives and surfaces just doesn't look right to me. I'm no expert, and maybe I'm wrong, but I will say that I can watch the boat in SH3 ride the waves for long periods of time just because it looks so realistic (physics wise, not gfx) but I don't get the same joy when watching it in this game.



This whole post sounds negative af, but please be assured I do think there is a relatively good game here. Most of my complaints are likely because I'm used to a certain style of play in SH3. If I treat UBOAT as a slightly more casual sub sim with a greater focus on crew & crisis management then I think it really shines.

[jibouil]

I've been following the development for a while and I'm very happy to see the release!
I bought the game and I'm going to start playing it as soon as I get back from vacation!

[Chris 6614]

[QUOTE=jlc930;2918268]So, are people here also seeing this early announcement of the final release as good news? But it’s only good news if you think the game is already perfect... Because for sure, in two weeks after leaving the Beta stage, the devs will not start to work more on it. . . :haha:

I generally try to avoid absolutist statements such as the one I am about to write, but....................

The above may be the most divorced-from-the-truth observation I have ever seen in any forum.

U Boat is a masterpiece.

[Captain Wreckless]

Hey,


I haven't played around much with UBOAT, but is the TDC manual only, or is there an option for the weapons officer to do it, like in SH3 and SH4. I've never really been interested in doing it manually and just let the game do it for me.


CW


:arrgh!:

[XLjedi]

Hey,


I haven't played around much with UBOAT, but is the TDC manual only, or is there an option for the weapons officer to do it, like in SH3 and SH4. I've never really been interested in doing it manually and just let the game do it for me.


CW


:arrgh!:

Not only can you assign crew to the task, but you can level them up with skills to do it better/faster as they gain experience.

[Sky_Masterson]

Hi to all

So to summarize. Is SH5 modded with wolfs of steel megamod still above this…let’s say good try but a bit off ? Taking into account the prize in steam until mid agoust…not sure If wanna give it a try though. Still consider myself a bit hardcore sailor.

[hombre al agua]

Hi to all

So to summarize. Is SH5 modded with wolfs of steel megamod still above this…let’s say good try but a bit off ? Taking into account the prize in steam until mid agoust…not sure If wanna give it a try though. Still consider myself a bit hardcore sailor.




You can buy the game, read the game manual 200+ pages and see if the features are good enough for you.Then test the game 2 hours and if you dont like it refund it and get the money again.

[Threadfin]

Hi to all

So to summarize. Is SH5 modded with wolfs of steel megamod still above this…


This is so subjective, but for me? No subsim or mod is above this. UBOAT is my top sub sim yet, and I revere some of the others, plus mods. UBOAT is that, plus adds many things that SH left out.


The campaign is great, the map is dynamic and beautifully done. Friendly boats at sea ask for assistance, vector you in to targets with beacon signals, attack and sink ships, divide escorts' attention. Their density and behavior may need to be tweaked, but this checks off one of my biggest wish-list items form SH.


Upgrades and tech are nicely handled. Awards system is better than SH, which always sucked anyway. The crew are functional, and have routines, rather than like in SH where they stand in the right spots and point at things convincingly, but is really just smoke and mirrors. In UBOAT they operate machinery, serve as medics, cook, sleep and play cards. Provisioning your boat for patrol includes food, which affects morale, or discipline as it is called here.


I try to avoid calling one or the other 'better' as it will invariably come down to our own preferences and biases. But for me, UBOAT is the closest we have come yet to what I want in a submarine sim.

[s0cks]

My opinion is that it's not as good as Silent Hunter if you're looking for something to simulate the hunt. The lack of tools (like an RAOBF) and lack of charts, as well as how the interface works (like having to move officers to a station before you can use it) makes manual hunting a bit tedious in this game imo. Plus there's way too few ship types, and they all sink roughly the same way in about 20 seconds or less.


However, if you turn on map contacts and play the game more like an RTS than a serious sub sim I think that's when it shines, and it's a lot of fun when played that way. Definitely worth the current price discount.

[Captain Wreckless]

Not only can you assign crew to the task, but you can level them up with skills to do it better/faster as they gain experience.


Good to know. :Kaleun_Salute:

CW
:arrgh!:

[RAM]

My opinion is that it's not as good as Silent Hunter if you're looking for something to simulate the hunt.


It's tremendously unfair to compare release Uboat with the very few release-compatible mods available right now, with a game series which best version of (SH3) dates back to 20 years and has a tremendous assortment of excellent mods that bring it's quality up to an amazing level during the whole time it's been out.

You can't expect a dev team of a handful of guys to compete with a game developed by a gaming studio backed by one of the publishing giants of the game industry (scumbags as they are, Ubisoft is a powerhouse), and then upkept by a legion of excellent passionate modders during the course of two decades.

Just compare the base versions. Which of both, is, in your opinion, the much better u-boat subsim?. Uboat, or SH3, or SH5?... With no mods, just the base product.

For me the answer is clear. Wait some time for modders to do their thing. Just to put an instance: Give a team like the one that developed GWX for Silent Hunter the same time they took to develop their megamod, to work in an Uboat Megamod. What do you think that would look like?. The result would make Uboat laugh (loudly) about any Silent Hunter iteration. Because the base game modders have to work with is so much better to begin with. As simple as that.

So I would plead everyone to stop comparing any of the ultra-modded SH games with a just-released Uboat because that's just not fair. Compare their base versions, or just give time for the modders to do what they did with Silent Hunter. The base to work with in Uboat is so much better than it ever was with SH that it ain't even funny.

look long-term, chaps. And again remember, this wasn't developed with Ubisoft backing as a publisher (THANK GOD!, but also means a lot less resources available), but by a tiny indie developer. The fact we have something this good from a team that small should be enough to be jumping in happiness. Of course the game isn't perfect, of course there are a lot of things to improve. Of course the UI can feel better or worse, but the OVERALL product, come on, guys, is really really good as a starting point, and coming from the limited resources the developers had to work with.

[hombre al agua]

My opinion is that it's not as good as Silent Hunter if you're looking for something to simulate the hunt. The lack of tools (like an RAOBF) and lack of charts, as well as how the interface works (like having to move officers to a station before you can use it) makes manual hunting a bit tedious in this game imo. Plus there's way too few ship types, and they all sink roughly the same way in about 20 seconds or less.


However, if you turn on map contacts and play the game more like an RTS than a serious sub sim I think that's when it shines, and it's a lot of fun when played that way. Definitely worth the current price discount.


You dont have the RAOBF (probably someone will do a mod) but you have more instruments simulated better than any SH game (the torpedo computer, echosounder...)

In uboat you can do everything you do in SH (and a lot more things) and the hunt is more realistic, you have help of other uboats, orders from bdu to track specific ships or convoys, you can be radio signaled to track enemy etc...

The sunking times are being changed by the developers (but there is already a mod that do it) and we will have more ships soon when the mods are updated (there is a mod with +70 ships and two more with +40 airplanes) and sure with more dlcs.

Uboat is second to none right now in the simulation aspect plus it has other casual options to play it and they are fun too.

[RAM]

You dont have the RAOBF (probably someone will do a mod).


I don't see how or why anyone will make such a mod. RAOFB was only present in very early uboats. Periscopes manufactured during WW2 didn't have it, so it would be anachronistic (and unrealistic) to have them on board a wartime U-boat.

[Threadfin]

To each their own, but things like charts and tools are only a matter of time. If you look at the bones in this one, for me, it surpasses what Silent Hunter is. The finer things are coming, if not already available as mods. With proper seasoning it will be far beyond what SH has achieved, but that's only my opinion, man :)


Playing a dead is dead career and we have reached August of 1941 (71% difficulty, started on VIIB U-48). Now command U-410 out of La Rochelle. It is the most fun I've had in a sub sim campaign, and that is some stiff competition. Despite what I'm writing, I love Silent Hunter like the rest of you. UBOAT though has become my top submarine sim.

[hombre al agua]

I don't see how or why anyone will make such a mod. RAOFB was only present in very early uboats. Periscopes manufactured during WW2 didn't have it, so it would be anachronistic (and unrealistic) to have them on board a wartime U-boat.


Because people likes to do mods doesnt matter if they are unrealistic, and perhaps someone coming from SH3 thinks it is a good idea to replicate it

[Threadfin]

It's surprising how little chatter there is about this game here at subsim of all places. I hope it picks up.

[hombre al agua]

It's surprising how little chatter there is about this game here at subsim of all places. I hope it picks up.


You have on steam the game and the workshop so the forum on steam gather uboat players. Most of silent hunter players who gather here dont know about the uboat reality at 2024, they think it is still the game it was in 2019 a casual game sim lite. It can be if you want but also can be a hardcore simulation if you chose the right options and mods.But they dont know or dont want to know.

The steam forums though has been wild last days, a lot of new and returning people after the release posting a lot. The numbers of concurrent players has gone to 7k almost x7 the numbers we had before the realese at peak times.

[s0cks]

It's tremendously unfair to compare release Uboat with the very few release-compatible mods available right now, with a game series which best version of (SH3) dates back to 20 years and has a tremendous assortment of excellent mods that bring it's quality up to an amazing level during the whole time it's been out.


It's perfectly fair to compare. What wouldn't be fair is to say that UBOAT will never be as good. Because like you, I imagine it's going to get modded over time to the point where it is clearly superior.


I even heard that the dev is working on sinking physics next, so that'll be another great addition.


But right now, I find modded SH3 a much smoother experience when hunting down targets without map contacts on and doing manual torp solutions. And considering I have the option to play it, then comparing is fine imo.


You dont have the RAOBF (probably someone will do a mod) but you have more instruments simulated better than any SH game (the torpedo computer, echosounder...)

In uboat you can do everything you do in SH (and a lot more things) and the hunt is more realistic, you have help of other uboats, orders from bdu to track specific ships or convoys, you can be radio signaled to track enemy etc...

The sunking times are being changed by the developers (but there is already a mod that do it) and we will have more ships soon when the mods are updated (there is a mod with +70 ships and two more with +40 airplanes) and sure with more dlcs.

Uboat is second to none right now in the simulation aspect plus it has other casual options to play it and they are fun too.


It's just my opinion, not a verifiably factual statement. And don't get me wrong, I'm having a lot of fun with UBOAT right now. I just personally find the flow of GWX SH3 easier in terms of play-ability when hunting in full manual mode. I've got all my charts, and tools. I can jump into any station without delay. Huge range of ships to sink. Decent sinking physics. Easier control of scopes, binoculars, and hydrophone. I can set my speed by knot. I can have continuous target reports from my watchman or hydrophone operator. I don't have to press ALT all the damn time. Less bugs too.



It's not always about what's most realistic. Rather it's the balance between realism and play-ability. But without a doubt UBOAT has more missions, varieties, and features.

[XLjedi]

It's surprising how little chatter there is about this game here at subsim of all places. I hope it picks up.

Problem is, no one here needs to ask any questions. That's just how good we are. LOL :haha:

[RAM]

It's perfectly fair to compare. What wouldn't be fair is to say that UBOAT will never be as good.

I have to insist that no, it's not fair. This is like comparing two products, one just bought off-the-self, the other customized with a gazillion aftermarket add-ons and custom made modifications. You should compare them off-the-self, not one like that and the other with the gazillion aftermarket mods fit in.

But, ok, let's agree to disagree. At least we can agree on the second part of that quote, that it really wouldn't be far to say that Uboat will never be as good ;).

[RAM]

Problem is, no one here needs to ask any questions. That's just how good we are. LOL :haha:

That's probably quite one of the biggest reasons, all jokes aside :).

[s0cks]

I have to insist that no, it's not fair. This is like comparing two products, one just bought off-the-self, the other customized with a gazillion aftermarket add-ons and custom made modifications. You should compare them off-the-self, not one like that and the other with the gazillion aftermarket mods fit in.

But, ok, let's agree to disagree. At least we can agree on the second part of that quote, that it really wouldn't be far to say that Uboat will never be as good ;).


But why would I compare to vanilla SH3 if I'm not going to play vanilla SH3? It would be weird to say "I'm not going to play modded SH3 because vanilla SH3 is worse than UBOAT".


But I do get where you're coming from. I'm comparing a game that has not realised it's full potential to one that has. That's something that's definitely worth pointing out, but I'm not sure it makes it unfair.


Happy to agree to disagree. I think we're all having fun in either game regardless. I'm also excited to see where UBOAT will go!

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Problem is, no one here needs to ask any questions. That's just how good we are. LOL :haha:




Good point. I did indeed fail to appreciate that we all know everything already and have run out of things to talk about.


Nice weather, eh?