Sub fuel leak

[John Pancoast]

I'd like to try to incorporate an AOD feature into SH3, that is when your sub has a fuel oil leak, the leak makes your detection easier.
I have an idea of how to do the detection part but my question is about the compartment damage notices you get in the game in the crew and damage mgmt. screen.
I.e., a notice appears in the command room compartment when there is fuel tank damage. Currently it is meaningless. But how/where in the game files are these notices produced ? Probably an .act file or the .exe file in which case I'm sol. But does anyone know ?
Also per AOD, it'd be nice to also have blowing tanks increase detection as it should, and damaged/destroyed batteries "produce" chlorine gas as they should (a simple O2 reduction maybe for SH3 ?) but so many of these things require hex editing. :wah:

[Mister_M]

I have an idea of how to do the detection part

How ?

[John Pancoast]

How ?


Add a .dat file that includes a hydrophone and/or sonar node to the GWX oil spill data. Could even make something else up to do the same.
Then thinking that those sensors would bring the escorts to investigate ala the function already in the game where if an escort, etc. detects you it "notifies" those in range.
Another idea would be to make a visual clue for the escorts that they couldn't miss seeing if in range, but that would probably be much more involved.
But it's all moot if a trigger with fuel tank damage requires hex editing which it probably would..............'cause I can't do that.

[Mister_M]

Add a .dat file that includes a hydrophone and/or sonar node to the GWX oil spill data.

I won't work, because a particule effect is not a AI unit... sorry.

[John Pancoast]

I won't work, because a particule effect is not a AI unit... sorry.


Right, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be a particle effect. Doesn't have to be any effect at all other than something to call the escorts to investigate, hence the idea of adding the nodes mentioned.
But I only know the very basics of the particle effects so I may be incorrect.

[Mister_M]

A more suitable approach would be to add the sound effect of the bold device to the leak oil particule effect, but I'm not sure if it can work... :06:

But I'm thinking.... : oil leak could also be interpreted by the escort ships as the destruction of the submarine... :D

[John Pancoast]

A more suitable approach would be to add the sound effect of the bold device to the leak oil particule effect, but I'm not sure if it can work... :06:

But I'm thinking.... : oil leak could also be interpreted by the escort ships as the destruction of the submarine... :D


True. Of course there wouldn't even have to be a special effect; just some action making the escorts detection ability increased, get their attention, etc.
I.e, along the lines of Stiebler's excellent FIDO mod. Purely functional, works great.
Also, historically an oil leak in itself was usually not enough for a confirmed kill to be credited. It had to be accompanied by other proof, ie., crushing/explosion sounds picked up, visual explosion signs (underwater explosions were seen by escort crews), debris/remains at the surface, etc.

[Mad Mardigan]

True. Of course there wouldn't even have to be a special effect; just some action making the escorts detection ability increased, get their attention, etc.
I.e, along the lines of Stiebler's excellent FIDO mod. Purely functional, works great.
Also, historically an oil leak in itself was usually not enough for a confirmed kill to be credited. It had to be accompanied by other proof, ie., crushing/explosion sounds picked up, visual explosion signs (underwater explosions were seen by escort crews), debris/remains at the surface, etc.

If, I am remembering correctly... isn't there a mod add in, that... when a merchant or even a warship, sinks... of it leaving what's supposed to be oil fuel spillage, on the water.

Could not that, spillage aspect or part of that mod, from that be repurposed... to work in conjunction along with the messaging, of fuel leakage from damaged tanks for the sub.

As for a means or method of a Destroyer or an escort vessel, being alerted to that... & tracking the subsequent signs... have to admit to, drawing a blank on.

Of course, I admit freely, am not well versed in all the ins & outs of things that make the game tick.

Been lurking about, following the replies & seeing what's been said... brought that particular to mind... & got Me thinking on it.

If it works & is doable, so much the better... if it's not... then... ehh... chalk it up to, a nice idea... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

[John Pancoast]

Yes, GWX has an oil leak on the surface from sinking ships at times.

[Mad Mardigan]

A more suitable approach would be to add the sound effect of the bold device to the leak oil particule effect, but I'm not sure if it can work... :06:

But I'm thinking.... : oil leak could also be interpreted by the escort ships as the destruction of the submarine... :D

As John pointed out... that, wouldn't nessitate an asw vessel, from breaking off... would have to bae a lot of other things... as was pointed out, as well.

1 thing that, on commenting that came to mind.

iirc, in das boot... before they set sail, there at the beginning. Didn't 1 of the crew, believe it may have been the chief engineer... state that a prop & shaft had to be replaced... which was what had been causing a bunch of noise while submerged... before they made it back to base. :hmmm:

what of a sound bit... of something along those lines... being worked up... to say... give away a subs location... per say... coupled with My earlier query about the oil fuel spillage idea, John... Jeff... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

[John Pancoast]

As John pointed out... that, wouldn't nessitate an asw vessel, from breaking off... would have to bae a lot of other things... as was pointed out, as well.

1 thing that, on commenting that came to mind.

iirc, in das boot... before they set sail, there at the beginning. Didn't 1 of the crew, believe it may have been the chief engineer... state that a prop & shaft had to be replaced... which was what had been causing a bunch of noise while submerged... before they made it back to base. :hmmm:

what of a sound bit... of something along those lines... being worked up... to say... give away a subs location... per say... coupled with My earlier query about the oil fuel spillage idea, John... Jeff... :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:


Exactly; using something already in the game to simulate something else.

I've been trying to figure out a non-hex editing method but nothing yet.
p.s. Another gem of AOD; it had prop/shaft damage that resulted in more noise/better chance of detenction, along with a message telling you of such.
p.p.s. Suddenly for some reason I'm not receiving email notices of thread replies............only from Subsim. :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

Maybe create a new zone file for a sub leaking fuel that calls a bold.
So Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20 would be Effect2=#Sub_Oil_trace, 20
That gets edited to have a bold effect in the particles.dat once you create the new #Sub_Oil_trace
:hmmm:

[John Pancoast]

Maybe create a new zone file for a sub leaking fuel that calls a bold.
So Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20 would be Effect2=#Sub_Oil_trace, 20
That gets edited to have a bold effect in the particles.dat once you create the new #Sub_Oil_trace
:hmmm:


Right, I was thinking of that ala H.sie's flare mod but then since the bold is meant to distract an escort(s) from where the sub is vs. an oil leak showing where a sub is, it may help evasion more than hurt it.
But it may also be an only way to do anything. Or maybe instead of a bold mock up an invisible "sonar buoy"..........:hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

There is a FollowParent command in the particles.

[John Pancoast]

Jeff, any idea what triggers console messages ? Something in the .exe file ?

[Jeff-Groves]

Jeff, any idea what triggers console messages ? Something in the .exe file ?
What do you mean? Any examples?

[Mad Mardigan]

What do you mean? Any examples?

Think maybe what John's after... would be like the trigger point for messages on fuel tank damages or that the sub's losing fuel... where that trigger point would be located, exactly... perhaps, Jeff... :hmmm:

Just a guess, off a hunch... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

[Jeff-Groves]

One could trigger a Statemachine controller to do things on a given basis.

[John Pancoast]

What do you mean? Any examples?


As M.M. said; I.e., when event x occurs, how is it's console message generated to appear ? What causes the game to use the en_menu.txt file phrases ?
On another note, I've found the hex info. for the batteries, fuel tank, pump, etc.
And looking at the particles.dat, there already is an oil trace node..............among other things I guess not implemented. :hmmm:
Even the zones.cfg file has a diesel room oil leak effect already.....


H.sie come back where ever you are; get rid of the external torpedo mod in your selector and add these instead ! :haha:

[John Pancoast]

One could trigger a Statemachine controller to do things on a given basis.


:up: Thanks. I'll take a look at an example.

[Jeff-Groves]

Take a Good look at the Zone file.
;************************************************* ******
;UBoat Items
;************************************************* ******

You should see part of the problem.

[Mad Mardigan]

One could trigger a Statemachine controller to do things on a given basis.

As M.M. said; I.e., when event x occurs, how is it's console message generated to appear ? What causes the game to use the en_menu.txt file phrases ?
On another note, I've found the hex info. for the batteries, fuel tank, pump, etc.
And looking at the particles.dat, there already is an oil trace node..............among other things I guess not implemented. :hmmm:
Even the zones.cfg file has a diesel room oil leak effect already.....


H.sie come back where ever you are; get rid of the external torpedo mod in your selector and add these instead ! :haha:

:up: Thanks. I'll take a look at an example.


And... on that note... am going to go back to lurking...

will pop in, if an idea, occurs to Me... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

[John Pancoast]

Take a Good look at the Zone file.
;************************************************* ******
;UBoat Items
;************************************************* ******

You should see part of the problem.


Right, that is where I saw the oil bubbles and oil trace effects already listed. Interesting.
The entire effect could be as "simple" as:
- the fuel tank, whatever, takes damage, normal message appears in the repair screen compartment stating such along with the info. that an oil leak could make detection easier. An audio file to go along with it would be even better. I.e., in AOD you get "Exterior fuel tanks have been damaged. We're leaking fuel. The leaking oil will make it easy to track our movements."
- that triggers an ahead 1/3 rpm level to increase chance of detection, even if the sub is going ahead slow. I.e., player would see the sub speed at ahead slow still and the sub actually would still be going ahead slow or any other speed the player wished, but have the damage trigger a separate ahead 1/3 rpm level for the escort(s) to possibly pick up on. Maybe use a "bold" type object to do this ?
- such affect would last until the repairs are done or some set time.
No graphical effects are even needed.
Anyway, if this could be implemented then similar effects for damaged batteries (chlorine gas) and the main pump (water accumulation/sinking), i.e., could be done.
Make SH3's damage levels actually mean something then, other than just repair times.

[Anvart]

One could trigger a Statemachine controller to do things on a given basis.
This is unlikely... Not all objects can work as a submarine crew.

P.S.
Jeff, did you receive my PM on the morning of 22.01.22 ...? :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

Alex,
That you very much for the message.
It's at times like now that it means so much to me!
:salute:
Knowing I have a very good friend in Russia gives me the Hope that things will not go bad for all of us.

Are you able to help with some Scripts for 010?

[FUBAR295]

John,

While rummaging around in my mod collection I came across this while looking for something else completely different.

Anyway I found this interesting ;

Real Damage Mod For 1.4b and new dc/sonar fix

Here it is

This has taken a good while to do but I am sure it is much better than the stock game. The good thing is that as long as you have made a copy of your original Zones.CFG and followed the backup instructions when installing Jungmans mod, you can easily roll back by just replacing your original zones.cfg.

Please ensure you use this with Jungmans excellent mod that fixes some late destroyer uber DC and sonar problems that previously made it absolutely impossible t evade two types of DD.

You can read all about that issue here.

Both Jungman and Beery have worked hard to confirm and delete this problem.

Anyway what does this Damage mod do?

For the eyes
************************************************** ****************************************

1. It adds exploding crew members to different areas of ships and planes, was not hard to do and it’s mainly for the eye candy guys like myself. (Watch carefully and you will see crew being thrown from the planes in a random fashion or thrown from ships life boats and command decks)

2. It has strengthened the upper parts of many of the ships, as someone said; it looked silly when a BB command deck gets blown of bye the U-boat deck gun.

3. It has slightly strengthened the planes, I was sick of them blowing up so easy, this has been rationally randomised to varying planes.

4. Oil leaks appear on sub when taking damage.

5. No more exploding conning tower because it was impossible to immediately destroy the U-boat once the conning was blown off.

6. The DD keel as been strenghened to reduce chance of flooding after collision with sub conning tower.

7. Change flooding times for various ship points

For the U-boat
************************************************** *********************************************

1. Increased the flooding probabilities as the new DC does damage at 15 metres and not 50, this looks more realistic when externally viewing.

2. Made it so you do not immediately die, however it does take some good co-ordination and crew management to recover now.

3. More chance of sinking out of control while trying to recover from flooding, I had a great time sinking and managing to gain control at 200 mtrs, hair raising stuff. Remember this is depending on various factors and not necessary all the time as it is impossible to balance the game to do this all the time.

4. Hull is still vulnerable to Hedgehogs and direct DC hits so be wary if you play RUB 1.3 lol.

5. Lots of damage tweak on systems and have also made it so you can lose speed etc.

6. To compensate for the realistic fans, I have added a couple of explosives on the sub in varying places where a direct DC hit could and I stress could cause extra damage. (This is all about a chance factor added to the game.


I have left everything else alone as I don’t want to start messing with other config files that people need to play real U-boat etc.
I was going to increase the chance of crew injuries but that depends on you lot. Saying this I did have one injury on board and he survived so I think I may have already cracked it.

Please ensure you back up and make a copy of your original Zones.cfg file found in your silent hunter Data folder.

Installation
************************************************** ************************************************
It is very immportant that you use Jungmans DC radious mod that change DC damage to 15 mtres. I cannot guarentee it will work with other settings but I will be updating it as the DC is changed.

To Install just copy this file into your data folder found in your silent hunter folder. This can be found by going to your program files and loking for the Ubisoft folder which stores the game.

I have included Jungmans mod so ensure you read the other readme please.

Have fun and die painfully
************************************************** *******************************************

Please give some feedback and any ideas you have to further improve the realism of this game.



It is part of the Hollywood Effects mod by Gouldjg. Not sure if you are aware of it?

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Thanks Bob, yes I remember those mods though I never used them much; I never had a problem evading the "uber AI", "pinpoint drops", etc. complaints and didn't consider such complaints as problems anyway as the AI needs all the help it can get. :)
Anyway, yes, producing an oil slick isn't really a problem, not even necessary really. All that's needed is a y reaction to x event so graphics aren't a necessity or even desired for that matter. Just adds unnecessary complexity and potential issues.
The confusing part is figuring out how to get that y reaction, what it would be, etc. and even more so, how the game could trigger it.
Just trying to make SH3's damage model better than the very poor case it is.

I'm good at coming up with ideas, not so good in implementing them. :haha:

[Anvart]

...
Are you able to help with some Scripts for 010?
Hi, Jeff.
I think, I can't help you for various reasons.
1. In January my computer broke... video card and SSD with OS. Right now I'm using the graphical processor built into the CP (~1.3 GB memory, it's very little). Now I installed OS (Windows 10) on the old SSD. Also I have to reinstall all my programs (there are quite a few), activate and configure them. This work will take a very long time.
2. The last script I wrote was, IIRC, in 2012 but now all my knowledge have effaced from my memory. And... I haven't 010Editor already ~ five years.
Sorry... :damn:

[Jeff-Groves]

Hi, Jeff.
I think, I can't help you for various reasons.
1. In January my computer broke... video card and SSD with OS. Right now I'm using the graphical processor built into the CP (~1.5 GB memory, it's very little). Now I installed OS (Windows 10) on the old HD. Also I have to reinstall all my programs (there are quite a few), activate and configure them. This work will take a very long time.
2. The last script I wrote was, IIRC, in 2012 but now all my knowledge have effaced from my memory. And... I haven't 010Editor already ~ five years.
Sorry... :damn:

Not a problem My Friend.
I did manage to get SweetScape to fix a bug I found recently.
:D

[Mister_M]

How could the enemy not spot it ? ...

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/02/09//22020912440218069017787721.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22020912440218069017787721.png.html)

Yes I agree that the effect is way too big, but that's a first try...

[Jeff-Groves]

Long ago GWX considered an effect for dropped sonar/dye marker buoys.
It was never finished nor included because it just wasn't practical back then.
I could think of ways to try getting a response for oil slicks but I highly doubt the out come would work very well.

[Anvart]

Oil stains on the water appear with certain damages of the submarine and are a pure visual effect. The game does not have a mechanism that reads oil stains as a unmasking factor for detecting a submarine... enemy ships and aircrafts do not respond to this factor.
:timeout:

[John Pancoast]

Oil stains on the water appear with certain damages of the submarine and are a pure visual effect. The game does not have a mechanism that reads oil stains as a unmasking factor for detecting a submarine... enemy ships and aircrafts do not respond to this factor.
:timeout:


Right, that is what would be nice to change if possible; so that enemy ships/aircraft did respond to the factor either visually, aurally, or both.

[Anvart]

You understood what I wrote?
Game hasn't mechanism... therefore, hasn't code that can be modified.
Our famous respected modders have modified the existing code.

[John Pancoast]

You understood what I wrote?
Game hasn't mechanism... therefore, hasn't code that can be modified.
Our famous respected modders have modified the existing code.


Yes, I understood. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, an oil stain per se isn't even needed. No graphic of any kind is for that matter.
Just a cause/effect model. Sub fuel leak causes x effect in the game. I.e., easier detection of some kind, even audibly would work. Doesn't have to be a direct correlation. I.e., because of leaking fuel the silent running function won't work for x amount of time would even work.

But it would require editing the .exe and/or an .act file, etc.
Just wishing out loud is all Anvart.

[Jeff-Groves]

Question is.....

Does the Game actually "Hear" your props/Sub?
Try moving the aud_NODES about 500 meters to one side.
If a ship goes for that? Then it may be possible to 'fake out' the Game.
:hmmm:


Does a Bold actually do anything? I can't recall them helping me any time in any way.

[Jeff-Groves]

Now. WAY BACK when.......

I was working on an AI Sub that would actually dive.
Never figured out a Good way to implement it and it did have issues I stopped looking at. BUT! I learned a lot of stuff from that!

Here's an old reference to that from Kpt. Lehamnn!

"Until very recently, no AI submarine can dive from the surface in SH3.

GWX Dev Team member 'Privateer' was the first to discover how to make them dive. However, once submerged other problems remain for these diving AI subs. Until these issues are fixed, there will be no diving AI subs released by the GWX dev team."

Since the Sub was mostly a visual 3D object with zones and such?
A Ship would attack it and drop DC's.

Thing is the CONTROLLING factor was 200 meters in the sky!
:o

Ships did not fire at that! But did DC runs!
I may someday rebuild that AI-Diving Sub knowing what I know now.
Create new and special Zones for it, adjust the geometry used to control dives, and link somethings differently.
So it is possible to FAKE things if one just works the problem and not allow the problem to work them.

[John Pancoast]

Question is.....

Does the Game actually "Hear" your props/Sub?
Try moving the aud_NODES about 500 meters to one side.
If a ship goes for that? Then it may be possible to 'fake out' the Game.
:hmmm:


Does a Bold actually do anything? I can't recall them helping me any time in any way.


Well there is no doubt that increasing the player sub rpms gets their attention as does turning off silent running, i.e.
I'll whip up a test with your node suggestion later on today.
Regarding BOLDS, that is my experience too; they don't do anything. Strictly a graphic effect.

[John Pancoast]

Now. WAY BACK when.......

I was working on an AI Sub that would actually dive.
Never figured out a Good way to implement it and it did have issues I stopped looking at. BUT! I learned a lot of stuff from that!

Here's an old reference to that from Kpt. Lehamnn!

"Until very recently, no AI submarine can dive from the surface in SH3.

GWX Dev Team member 'Privateer' was the first to discover how to make them dive. However, once submerged other problems remain for these diving AI subs. Until these issues are fixed, there will be no diving AI subs released by the GWX dev team."

Since the Sub was mostly a visual 3D object with zones and such?
A Ship would attack it and drop DC's.

Thing is the CONTROLLING factor was 200 meters in the sky!
:o

Ships did not fire at that! But did DC runs!
I may someday rebuild that AI-Diving Sub knowing what I know now.
Create new and special Zones for it, adjust the geometry used to control dives, and link somethings differently.
So it is possible to FAKE things if one just works the problem and not allow the problem to work them.


:salute::salute::salute: ! That sounds great Jeff !


"So it is possible to FAKE things if one just works the problem and not allow the problem to work them."


Exactly ! What an outstanding comment ! I don't care if an escort is nuclear powered with cruise missles as long as it ACTS like a ww2 escort to the player.

[Jeff-Groves]

There is a TON of controllers one can use to do things in SH3/4/5!
You just have to think about how they work, how to combine them to get what you want, and experiment!

Rubini did that and We got spray from Subs in SH3 without the controller used in SH4!
Also the Survivors Mods!
And the Air Raid sirens stuff in GWX! That takes and fakes shells,guns and search lights!

It took a single comment between GWX Devs about Air Raid Sirens to get me to develop the way to implement them.
Took me just a couple days if I remember correctly.

[John Pancoast]

There is a TON of controllers one can use to do things in SH3/4/5!
You just have to think about how they work, how to combine them to get what you want, and experiment!

Rubini did that and We got spray from Subs in SH3 without the controller used in SH4!
Also the Survivors Mods!
And the Air Raid sirens stuff in GWX! That takes and fakes shells,guns and search lights!

It took a single comment between GWX Devs about Air Raid Sirens to get me to develop the way to implement them.
Took me just a couple days if I remember correctly.


Right, I've seen the controllers list in S3D. Been looking at how other mods and the game itself use them and trying to learn from that.

Interesting stuff !

[Anvart]

...
I was working on an AI Sub that would actually dive.
...
Here's an old reference to that from Kpt. Lehamnn!
"Until very recently, no AI submarine can dive from the surface in SH3.
..."
I can't remember AI Submarines in the game Silent Hunter III... They were never in this game.
Those units that the modders made, calling them AI Submarines, have nothing to do with submarines ... since they have a base controller cmdr_AIShip and therefore this "AI Submarines" behave like an AIShip.