I think the pendulum has swung too far

[TDK1044]

When the developers were designing Uboat, it's understandable that they didn't want a copy of the Silent Hunter model. However, looking at the newly released U Tube videos, it seems like this game involves telling trained crew members to do what they should already be doing. I think that'll get old really quickly. I wish the game well, but it's not for me.

[Hjalfnar]

I am not so sure about it. A lot of the stuff will be automated in the future, I think...and it actually is already. People go to bed or play cards if you don't give them new orders. The cook will make meals from anything that's in the storage room, but you are able to give him specific foods. The engineers will do maintenance on the torpedos if there is nothing else you ordered them to do and they have slept already.

It's just more efficient to manage the crew then letting it do everything by itself.

[TDK1044]

I genuinely wish it well, and I know how much hard work and sacrifice went into making this game a reality, but to me, right now it feels like 'Millennial Boat' rather than a U Boat. I'll be interested to see how it can be modded though. :)

[Hjalfnar]

I genuinely wish it well, and I know how much hard work and sacrifice went into making this game a reality, but to me, right now it feels like 'Millennial Boat' rather than a U Boat. I'll be interested to see how it can be modded though. :)Well, the game will go in Early Access on 30th April, while the modding tools will be made available in June...so modding will be possible before the game is even fully released, and according to the devs modding options will be "extensive".

[bstanko6]

I’m definitely getting the game, but with the “Sims” expectation. And I’m ok with that!

There really is no true sub simulator out there in my opinion.

As long as TC exists, there can’t be a true simulator, just different genre.

I’ve said it before, I would love to see a modern silent hunter style sub game. With all the fixings of silent hunter and u-boat.

[derstosstrupp]

I’m definitely getting the game, but with the “Sims” expectation. And I’m ok with that!

There really is no true sub simulator out there in my opinion.

As long as TC exists, there can’t be a true simulator, just different genre.

I’ve said it before, I would love to see a modern silent hunter style sub game. With all the fixings of silent hunter and u-boat.

Until this bad boy happens anyway:
http://www.uboatsim.com

[TDK1044]

I’m definitely getting the game, but with the “Sims” expectation. And I’m ok with that!

There really is no true sub simulator out there in my opinion.

As long as TC exists, there can’t be a true simulator, just different genre.

I’ve said it before, I would love to see a modern silent hunter style sub game. With all the fixings of silent hunter and u-boat.

Right there with you. I like the idea of interacting with the crew to discuss the mission.....course....anticipated weather.....fuel.......expected enemy activity and so on, but I have no desire to see a puddle of water, and to then instruct someone to get a bucket and a mop. :)

[Rickster1]

Don't buy it then.

[TDK1044]

It feels too much like an arcade game at the moment. It's going to be very moddable though, so it will be worth waiting a few months and reassessing.

[Salvadoreno]

Wow my last visit was 2015, its been that long since I've been away from my Uboat fix!

Commenting on a few things, the game seems like an early SH3,4,5; knowing that there are modding tools available before the game even comes out gives me a ton of faith! There are brilliant modders out there that will turn this game into both a crew management subsim AND a Uboat sim! I personally cannot wait for this game, I was always so bad at torpedo solutions at SH3 that I wish I could just order my 1st Officer to take care of it (but I played fully manual all the time). But I would love for it to have all the things a Grey Wolves or NYGM mod had.



Cant operate deck gun in high winds
Fuel and Batteries decreasing VERY quickly at flank speeds
thermo layers
celestial navigation and manual navigation
even random Uboat problems/maintenance!

So many excellent features can be implemented via modding tools, I am really hoping to feel that nostalgia SH3 created so many years ago.

[W_clear]

Submarine search for merchant ships is very boring, so you can take the time to order the crew to be more interesting.

[TDK1044]

Submarine search for merchant ships is very boring, so you can take the time to order the crew to be more interesting.

Hence my point about the modding. I like the idea of more crew interaction than the SH series, but personally, I just want that interaction to be related to the strategy of the mission, and not what they eat etc. :)

[fullmetaledges]

I genuinely wish it well, and I know how much hard work and sacrifice went into making this game a reality, but to me, right now it feels like 'Millennial Boat' rather than a U Boat. I'll be interested to see how it can be modded though. :)

Why is that, because everyone 22-37 years old is lazy?

[TDK1044]

Why is that, because everyone 22-37 years old is lazy?

No, it's just that when you have to tell a crew member to get a mop and bucket in order to clean up a spill, you might wonder why that individual didn't have the initiative to do so without having to be asked. I don't think it's realistic, because U Boat sub crews were well trained. But if that kind of thing can be modded out, and the crew interaction can be more strategy and real time threat related, then it becomes interesting......to me anyway.

[fullmetaledges]

I understand what you're saying, the micromanagement seems to be a bit much, but I think that relating it to a generational age range is misinformed.

[TDK1044]

I understand what you're saying, the micromanagement seems to be a bit much, but I think that relating it to a generational age range is misinformed.

The reference was meant to be one of inexperience rather than a generational criticism. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

[fullmetaledges]

The reference was meant to be one of inexperience rather than a generational criticism. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

:up:

I think the modelling of systems to me is the most interesting aspect of this game. Like you I am not interested in bailing water, but the thought of turning things off to conserve battery charge is an interesting take.

[nihilcat]

You seem to be making up things on the fly a bit @TDK1044. There isn't really any "cleaning" orders in the game. You also don't have to manage your officers most of the time, if you don't like to as they perform most tasks on their own. They don't know what is your overall plan though and their actions may sometimes be suboptimal when you take that into consideration, so it's definitely rewarding to at least sometimes jump in.

It's also worth to distinct things that you CAN do in the game with things that you HAVE to do. As a skipper you can do a lot and we tried to allow the player to micromanage his boat as much as he likes to, even choosing what will be on the dinner, if he has such wish.

I also don't think you are being fair by calling the game "arcade". Simulation-wise there is more or less everything in the game that was present in the stock Silent Hunter games (and more!). It's true that you CAN order your crew to perform some of the tasks that were forcefully manual in SH, but again - you don't HAVE to :03:

[TDK1044]

You seem to be making up things on the fly a bit @TDK1044. There isn't really any "cleaning" orders in the game. You also don't have to manage your officers most of the time, if you don't like to as they perform most tasks on their own. They don't know what is your overall plan though and their actions may sometimes be suboptimal when you take that into consideration, so it's definitely rewarding to at least sometimes jump in.

It's also worth to distinct things that you CAN do in the game with things that you HAVE to do. As a skipper you can do a lot and we tried to allow the player to micromanage his boat as much as he likes to, even choosing what will be on the dinner, if he has such wish.

I also don't think you are being fair by calling the game "arcade". Simulation-wise there is more or less everything in the game that was present in the stock Silent Hunter games (and more!). It's true that you CAN order your crew to perform some of the tasks that were forcefully manual in SH, but again - you don't HAVE to :03:

Thanks for the answer, nihilcat. I really hope that it sells well for you guys, and I know that many here will really enjoy it. :up:

[Elphaba]

Thanks for the answer, nihilcat. I really hope that it sells well for you guys, and I know that many here will really enjoy it. :up:

Can I make a counter suggestion? I too am not sure it’s the right type of game for me, however, it’s been almost a decade since a new Subsim game has been released and Ubisoft and the makers of Dangerous Waters have both given up their sequel plans.

We all know this is a niche sub genre in gaming.

We’re all in this community whether there is a new game looming or not.

My point, is that for the cost of a pizza you can support devs making these games, even if you don’t intend to play the game.

A lot of us in this community support Neal and this site, with nothing asked for in return.

Why don’t we honour and say thanks to the few devs in the world trying to keep this genre alive, rather than listing things we don’t like or want changed?

They made this; its their vision. At least until it’s fully released, let’s just buy a copy, even if we don’t play it, to show support and gratitude?

For most people here the price of entry is nothing, but it would mean the world to the greater sub community.

That’s what I intend to do, even if it’s not the game I thought it was going to be.

[TDK1044]

I agree with you, and I contributed to the kickstarter account for Uboot, as it then was, when it first started a couple of years ago. I will watch its development with interest over the coming months. :)

[Rickster1]

I absolutely agree , I watched cold waters during development and bought it although in the end it was not the game for me as it was too far away from sh series (with mods), so I will buy this game as I think this is more my style and hopefully the Devs will take it from ea to full game. Even buying it will make me have to buy a new pc to run it. So I think that if I can still play sh3 nygm all these years on and sh5 twos I am hoping this game will keep me occupied for years to come, for me it address what sh series didn't, the crew management side of the U-boat and I think it's needed as just going out to sink ship's and avoiding being sunk yourself can get a bit stale over years. I also think that the streams I have seen are great but each one has used to for obvious reasons playing at real time for most of a patrol will be a different game all together. Can't wait.

[bsub]

100% correct. There is very little interest in games that don't give immediate satisfaction. Sub sims require patience and a lot of thought if they are played realistically. So I am all I favor of supporting the few devs who want to give us these wonderful "games".

[TDK1044]

I think that this small Dev team has done an awesome job, and I think that my concerns are easily fixable.......moddable, and to some degree subjective. I guess I'm looking for a common sense interaction with the crew, rather than micromanaging them, but nihilcat suggests that there is latitude here. So, let's have a glass half full approach and see how it goes :)

[Pelle71]

Of course i buy a copy, no question. But i hope i can buy a dvd version with a nice manual, and hope for a recognition manual also..

[JU_88]

Can I make a counter suggestion? I too am not sure it’s the right type of game for me, however, it’s been almost a decade since a new Subsim game has been released and Ubisoft and the makers of Dangerous Waters have both given up their sequel plans.

We all know this is a niche sub genre in gaming.

We’re all in this community whether there is a new game looming or not.

My point, is that for the cost of a pizza you can support devs making these games, even if you don’t intend to play the game.

A lot of us in this community support Neal and this site, with nothing asked for in return.

Why don’t we honour and say thanks to the few devs in the world trying to keep this genre alive, rather than listing things we don’t like or want changed?

They made this; its their vision. At least until it’s fully released, let’s just buy a copy, even if we don’t play it, to show support and gratitude?

For most people here the price of entry is nothing, but it would mean the world to the greater sub community.

That’s what I intend to do, even if it’s not the game I thought it was going to be.

Very, very well said sir!
:Kaleun_Salute:

[Slyguy3129]

I understand what you're saying, the micromanagement seems to be a bit much, but I think that relating it to a generational age range is misinformed.

You would be mistaken. That "generation" of gamers has all but destroyed the industry, both working in it, and their purchase habits. Unless you enjoy buying a game they've ripped into four or five pieces they intend to sell you back later, Bull**** loot boxes, or Leftist Circle Jerk Messages placed throughout.

My generation is responsible for the destruction of many things, and I hate them for it more than older people do.

[fullmetaledges]

You would be mistaken. That "generation" of gamers has all but destroyed the industry, both working in it, and their purchase habits. Unless you enjoy buying a game they've ripped into four or five pieces they intend to sell you back later, Bull**** loot boxes, or Leftist Circle Jerk Messages placed throughout.

My generation is responsible for the destruction of many things, and I hate them for it more than older people do.

So what you’re saying is that previous generations of businesses wouldn’t of tried to make more profits utilizing dlc and loot boxes had the same technology been available then as it is today? Do you have any facts to support this? Are people only in the millennial generation buying dlc and loot boxes? Tell me again how I’m mistaken to think that it’s a stupid to make generalizations based on people’s age alone.

[JU_88]

You would be mistaken. That "generation" of gamers has all but destroyed the industry, both working in it, and their purchase habits. Unless you enjoy buying a game they've ripped into four or five pieces they intend to sell you back later, Bull**** loot boxes, or Leftist Circle Jerk Messages placed throughout.

My generation is responsible for the destruction of many things, and I hate them for it more than older people do.

Loot boxes have been under heavy fire and looks like they may even be getting some publishers in to legal trouble for promoting gambling to the underage.
So that should get reigned in.

As for leftist circle jerk messages, I know what you mean, but i again i wouldn't blame the younger generation too much, yes, its tiresome that through media we often get brow beaten with preachy 'woke' progressive morality & values (ones that most cosmopolitan people more or less held already anyway since the 90's :P)
It comes from universities, politics,culture & gamergate (in that order) but its GenX and boomers that have been merrily shoveling it down millennial and GenZs throats for that past decade or two.
Companies are just doing what the free market does, and have in error thought that pushing this stuff is how to be 'down with the kids'
In reality, social justice (of the neo-marxist variety) sells about well as it get votes, not very well. and its already going out of fashion tbh.

[TDK1044]

I've watched several of the game play videos on You Tube, and the game does have an arcade feel about it to me. I know that nihilcat doesn't like that term, but it feels more like that than a sim to me. Maybe it needs to be in order to sell more copies. A personal gripe of mine going back to Beta testing on the SH series, is that the ships attacked are ghost ships. I remember Dan from Ubisoft telling me that that was due to the rating that could be attached to the game. Eventually, SH did introduce some activity on the ships being attacked, and I hope that this game does too. I'll purchase Uboat to support the genre, but I'll wait a few months to see what the modders do with it, before playing it. :)

[JU_88]

I've watched several of the game play videos on You Tube, and the game does have an arcade feel about it to me. I know that nihilcat doesn't like that term, but it feels more like that than a sim to me. Maybe it needs to be in order to sell more copies. A personal gripe of mine going back to Beta testing on the SH series, is that the ships attacked are ghost ships. I remember Dan from Ubisoft telling me that that was due to the rating that could be attached to the game. Eventually, SH did introduce some activity on the ships being attacked, and I hope that this game does too. I'll purchase Uboat to support the genre, but I'll wait a few months to see what the modders do with it, before playing it. :)

Well I've played the backer demo, and I can say there is no 'arcade feel' but there is not exactly a 'sim feel' either strictly speaking. It feels like neither,
since its not a binary thing, where games are either 'sim or arcade', modern games are typically way WAY more complicated than many legacy examples of either.

honestly the term 'arcade' is so out dated, to me it doesn't really mean anything now when applied to modern games. There are few modern PC /console games that play like an Arcade - in the Street fighter II/ Daytona USA/Time Crisis sense of the word.

Even 'simulation' is misleading, since simulators only simulate the aspects deemed important enough to be simulated, the trade off is that everything else is a mishmash and given little to no care.
e.g silent hunter 3/4/5, might take care to accurately simulate a torpedo launch, but if you get rammed by a another ship, - well its 'like an arcade' your boat just bounces off and appear to be intact like it was carved out of solid titatium, the watch crew still have their feet glued to the conning tower, still peering though their binoculars as if absolutely nothing happened. hell, GTA 5 provides a better 'simulation' of a collision than Silent Hunter does.

So it really depends what parts of a game you are looking at, my theory is that if the parts we think deserved the most attention, got that level of attention then, 'its a sim' if they didn't then 'its arcade'.
Truth is, 'Arcades' and 'Sims' are more or less history at this point -And alot of the references to them in modern games is just meaningless indervidual perception.

[TDK1044]

Maybe 'video game' would be a better term than 'arcade game'. From what I've seen in online videos, what it adds in crew interaction, it loses in atmosphere. In the videos that I've watched, there isn't the same fear of detection that I enjoyed in SH3. Now, in all fairness, SH3 had to go through four significant patches and heavy modding to get there, so I'm hoping that this offering can be similarly modded. I'm happy to purchase it though. :)

[JU_88]

Maybe 'video game' would be a better term than 'arcade game'. From what I've seen in online videos, what it adds in crew interaction, it loses in atmosphere. In the videos that I've watched, there isn't the same fear of detection that I enjoyed in SH3. Now, in all fairness, SH3 had to go through four significant patches and heavy modding to get there, so I'm hoping that this offering can be similarly modded. I'm happy to purchase it though. :)

I think that will come with time,
you should see Tmtc's stream where he gets torpedoed by an MTB, if that doesn't put the fear of god in to the player, I don't know what will.
But it might just be the way the beta testers are approaching the game, in a more technical way than an immersive one.
Ill admit silent hunter did the hunter/hunted part very well indeed. but outside of that most of the game was spent staring at the navigation map and UI in time compression - that part, not so good.

[TDK1044]

I think that will come with time,
you should see Tmtc's stream where he gets torpedoed by an MTB, if that doesn't put the fear of god in to the player, I don't know what will.
But it might just be the way the beta testers are approaching the game, in a more technical way than an immersive one.
Ill admit silent hunter did the hunter/hunted part very well indeed. but outside of that most of the game was spent staring at the navigation map and UI in time compression - that part, not so good.

Yep. Points well made.

[brett25]

Im excited about the release. If there is one thing I could suggest to the developers is to try and get the hunter hunted aspect in the game. The enemy needs to be intelligent, they need to feel like an adversary.

Its all about waiting below suface after an attack for you payback, waiting for that dreaded ping ringing throuout the boat, the intricate manouvers you have make to creep away. Descending down Dangerous depths with a creaking boat. Constant reports from hydrophone, etc etc. reparing leaks. these are the most immersive and intense moments of SH. Think Das Boot. What made that film so immersive. If you guys could model some of this game play along with this awesome management and uboat system details you have now, you will have a big hit

[captgeo]

I will be purchasing a copy to support my commrades @ subsim.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Nufsed]

Can I make a counter suggestion? I too am not sure it’s the right type of game for me, however, it’s been almost a decade since a new Subsim game has been released and Ubisoft and the makers of Dangerous Waters have both given up their sequel plans.

We all know this is a niche sub genre in gaming.

We’re all in this community whether there is a new game looming or not.

My point, is that for the cost of a pizza you can support devs making these games, even if you don’t intend to play the game.

A lot of us in this community support Neal and this site, with nothing asked for in return.

Why don’t we honour and say thanks to the few devs in the world trying to keep this genre alive, rather than listing things we don’t like or want changed?

They made this; its their vision. At least until it’s fully released, let’s just buy a copy, even if we don’t play it, to show support and gratitude?

For most people here the price of entry is nothing, but it would mean the world to the greater sub community.

That’s what I intend to do, even if it’s not the game I thought it was going to be.


+1000

[CrabKey]

I'm with you guys; impressed with the developers and excited for the possibilities to come! I will buy after my next Social Security check arrives.
Let's keep politics out of the Forums; it only divides US more. Sub Captains unite!:salute:

[Sniper297]

Can't remember which one, but I'm pretty sure it was Silent Hunter 2 that had a micromanagement "mini game" built in for the crew. There was no option to make a watch bill so they would automatically go on watch and go to sleep when off duty, you had to stop every few hours to shuffle crewmembers around and tuck in the tired ones while singing them a lullaby. Repeat repeat repeat, then uninstall and go back to SH1.

At the very least there should be an option to turn off silly stuff like that so you can focus on actually playing the game.

[Justaguyinnc]

Two years from now..the nay sayers of today will be bragging about how awesome UBOAT is and no other submarine game will ever match it... we have heard this story before.. sing along.. jus'sayin


:Kaleun_Cheers:

[fullmetaledges]

Can't remember which one, but I'm pretty sure it was Silent Hunter 2 that had a micromanagement "mini game" built in for the crew. There was no option to make a watch bill so they would automatically go on watch and go to sleep when off duty, you had to stop every few hours to shuffle crewmembers around and tuck in the tired ones while singing them a lullaby. Repeat repeat repeat, then uninstall and go back to SH1.

At the very least there should be an option to turn off silly stuff like that so you can focus on actually playing the game.

It’s almost like that is the game.

[LordInquisitor]

No, it's just that when you have to tell a crew member to get a mop and bucket in order to clean up a spill, you might wonder why that individual didn't have the initiative to do so without having to be asked. I don't think it's realistic, because U Boat sub crews were well trained. But if that kind of thing can be modded out, and the crew interaction can be more strategy and real time threat related, then it becomes interesting......to me anyway.


Im Betting that Uboat Wolwes of Steel will have AI initiative based on veterancy, So you are gonna enjoy a lot of Newbies needing to be told to Clean that freaking dirt :haha:

[Nordmann]

Two years from now..the nay sayers of today will be bragging about how awesome UBOAT is and no other submarine game will ever match it... we have heard this story before.. sing along.. jus'sayin


:Kaleun_Cheers:

Yeah, same old, same old. I would honestly be pleasantly surprised if this community actually showed some positivity towards the genre they are supposed to enjoy. There's more to it than just calculating torpedo solutions!