View Full Version : Question for the naval design experts
How accurate are Wargaming's (World of Warship) ship models?
I ask so because...
https://p3dm.ru/xfsearch/World+of+Warships/
well I am not expert or anything but I think they are pretty accurate. But scaling could be wrong.
well I am not expert or anything but I think they are pretty accurate. But scaling could be wrong.
Scaling is not an issue, as long as all the parts have the correct proportions :03:
I don't know how long they will keep ripping WoW models, but in the last few weeks that I have been checking pack3d downloads, they have been updating the list of available ships with some regularity.
Kendras
11-01-17, 02:25 PM
This one would be perfect for harbours !
https://p3dm.ru/files/avio/other_avia/9856-steam-tug-goliath.html
the_frog
11-01-17, 04:16 PM
Hello,
the WoW models are all acurate, including equipment and weapon details. That comes at the cost of a very high poly count. Also, the texturing (all details have individual texture files) is not ideal for SH3 purposes.
Worse, some of the hulls and details are distorted. Especially guns have often bended barrels, deformed muzzles etc. Considering the overall high quality of the models, I think these defects result from the exporting process.
Many of the hulls, however, are well done and may serve as templates or starting point for new SH3 models. I do not think we should spend too much time on re-working the models for SH3; building them from scratch is likely an easier task for an experienced 3D geek.
One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example, the naval trawler/drifter is another. Also Medway Queen, Lorina, and some of the smaller boats look fine.
The model that caught my attention was the HMAS Vampire. I have been thinking of re-doing the V&W destroyers since a while and so I had closer look. The model ist accurate but I realised that it is an Admiralty V leader and not one of the more standard Admiralty Vs and Ws. So, it is not the best representative of that group of destroyers (which anyway was pretty diverse). So, I decided to try what can be done during some brief evening sessions:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/1447/q4v0389d4kxq9bj6g.jpg
... not too bad for a few hours of work ... :03:
@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV; the textures are individual but may require colour adjustment. There is also a model of the 35ft fast motorboat but I like the one I did better :D
Sorry for the long text, including the shameless self-advertising :O:
Cheers
Kendras
11-02-17, 06:19 AM
One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example
@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV; the textures are individual but may require colour adjustment.
So, I may try to import these models for SH3. :)
Kendras
11-02-17, 10:43 AM
When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out. :wah: Could you say me what's wrong ? Here is the imported unit :
https://www.mediafire.com/file/y6qia3dtson65yg/WoW%20-%20Goliath%20tug%20boat.7z
This one would be perfect for harbours !
https://p3dm.ru/files/avio/other_avia/9856-steam-tug-goliath.html
...or for a WWI mod, since she served in the US navy from 1918 to 1919 as
escort/rescue tug and patrol vessel :03:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Goliah_(SP-1494)
Apparently, Goliah had three sisters, all built by Dialogue & Co (http://shipbuildinghistory.com/shipyards/19thcentury/dialogue.htm) of Camden between 1907 and 1908:
Hercules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(1907)), Ontario and Western.
It is my understanding that their design is all but uncommon for a tugboat of their period, so I suppose we could import the model in game as a more generic "old US tugboat", "old oceangoing tug" or something along these lines. :yep:
the WoW models are all acurate, including equipment and weapon details. That comes at the cost of a very high poly count. Also, the texturing (all details have individual texture files) is not ideal for SH3 purposes.
...
Many of the hulls, however, are well done and may serve as templates or starting point for new SH3 models. I do not think we should spend too much time on re-working the models for SH3; building them from scratch is likely an easier task for an experienced 3D geek.
Good to know, thanks. :up:
Indeed, it is difficult finding free 3D meshes that fit perfectly all the cracteristics of the ideal SH model but, as you said, those models canbe used as templates to speed up the modelling process. As an amateur 3D modeller, I often spend more time looking for pictures and construction plans or (when I don't find them) trying to figure out shapes and proportions, than in actual modelling lol.
Worse, some of the hulls and details are distorted. Especially guns have often bended barrels, deformed muzzles etc. Considering the overall high quality of the models, I think these defects result from the exporting process.
Really? I didn't notice that, but I must admit that I have only downloaded those models ans added them to my personal collection without having a closer look to them in a 3D editor.
Distortions like the ones you are describing often happen when models are ripped from memory. I can be wrong, but I think that WoW and WoT have their own model editors, capable of reading/writing game files, so the bent/deformed elements could actually be part of damage models :hmmm:
One group of models is an exeption -- those created as background decoration for scenarios, such as Operation Dynamo. These models are fairly well done, with reasonable poly counts and often one single texture file. The Goliath tug is an example, the naval trawler/drifter is another. Also Medway Queen, Lorina, and some of the smaller boats look fine.
:up:
The model that caught my attention was the HMAS Vampire. I have been thinking of re-doing the V&W destroyers since a while and so I had closer look. The model ist accurate but I realised that it is an Admiralty V leader and not one of the more standard Admiralty Vs and Ws. So, it is not the best representative of that group of destroyers (which anyway was pretty diverse). So, I decided to try what can be done during some brief evening sessions:
... not too bad for a few hours of work ... :03:
Looks promising. What sub-class(es) are you planning to model? :up:
Sorry for the long text, including the shameless self-advertising :O:
No need to say sorry. The time reading your messages is always well spent :salute:
Kendras
11-02-17, 02:29 PM
@kendras: The HMS Warspite has models of the 45ft motor pinnace and the 45ft fast motorboat. You may consider to use them for the KGV
The 45ft fast boats don't seem to be accurate. Here a comparison between SH5 KGV + WoW fast boats, and a very detailed 3D model :
https://i.imgur.com/InLfvJc.png
the_frog
11-02-17, 02:38 PM
...or for a WWI mod, since she served in the US navy from 1918 to 1919 as escort/rescue tug and patrol vessel :03:
... all the equipment and the deckhouse point at a pre-WWI vessel. For the WWII time, the deckhouse might be re-modelled.
As an amateur 3D modeller, I often spend more time looking for pictures and construction plans or (when I don't find them) trying to figure out shapes and proportions, than in actual modelling lol.
Correct.
... I must admit that I have only downloaded those models ans added them to my personal collection without having a closer look to them in a 3D editor.
:D ... another 3D model collector. I am not the only one ...
... so the bent/deformed elements could actually be part of damage models :hmmm:
Yes, that's likely the cause. Many of the smaller guns seem to have of parts of the respective damage models.
Looks promising. What sub-class(es) are you planning to model? :up:
The model is based on plans of Vidette and Vega as in 1918, with the 1920/30 changes to the bridge. So, it's the Admiralty V class in the fleet destroyer version (after the 1920/30s changes, the W class was almost identical). The model may also represent the 'modified' W class with the original boiler and funnel arrangement. It does neither respresent any of the Thornycroft specials nor the modified W class with reversed boiler layout.
The model is intended to replace the SH3 model. Let's sse, I probably will prepare WAIR and Long Range Excorts versions. The WAIRs I like best of all V&Ws :D.
the_frog
11-02-17, 02:48 PM
The 45ft fast boats don't seem to be accurate. Here a comparison between SH5 KGV + WoW fast boats, and a very detailed 3D model :
https://i.imgur.com/InLfvJc.png
The model of the 45ft fast motorboat is prefectly correct; the one on the right picture is a 45ft motor/diesel picket boat :03:
Those picket boats were often used on modern British capital ships as Admiral's barge. Usually, only one was carried, along two 45ft fast motorboats. Many model plans on the market do not include the 45ft fast motorboat but only the 45ft motor picket boat.
Edit: The 45ft fast motor boat and picket boat shared the same hull. So, creating a model of the picket boat based on the motorboat model is possible ;-)
Kendras
11-02-17, 03:08 PM
I have a question about Wings3D : would it be possible to resize several objects while keeping their relative position to each others, without being forced to do 3 different actions : combine them, resize and separate them again ?
And also : would it be possible to resize a model, while keeping centered on the origin (0) point ?
the_frog
11-02-17, 03:25 PM
I have a question about Wings3D : would it be possible to resize several objects while keeping their relative position to each others, without being forced to do 3 different actions : combine them, resize and separate them again ?
Mark the objects in question, switch to vertex mode, resize.
And also : would it be possible to resize a model, while keeping centered on the origin (0) point ?
No idea.
Jeff-Groves
11-02-17, 04:34 PM
I want the 1939 Langley!
How the heck do you DL them?
Kendras
11-02-17, 04:46 PM
I want the 1939 Langley!
How the heck do you DL them?
Hey ! I'm glad to see you ! It has been a while ! :)
To download a model, click on the large square with a arrow and text "CKAHATb YDALEHHO", then in the next window wait for a few seconds until you have a new square with a arrow again with text "CKAHATb FAUL" and click on it to download.
Jeff-Groves
11-02-17, 04:51 PM
That never comes up for me.
:oops:
Can you DL it and send it to me?
When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out. :wah: Could you say me what's wrong ? Here is the imported unit :
https://www.mediafire.com/file/y6qia3dtson65yg/WoW%20-%20Goliath%20tug%20boat.7z
Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase):
https://image.ibb.co/eb3VSb/tug.jpg
Best regards,
Vd
the_frog
11-02-17, 05:46 PM
To download a model, click on the large square with a arrow and text "CKAHATb YDALEHHO", then in the next window wait for a few seconds until you have a new square with a arrow again with text "CKAHATb FAUL" and click on it to download.
I use the button with the Union Jack on ... then reading becomes easier.
the_frog
11-02-17, 05:57 PM
That never comes up for me.
:oops:
Can you DL it and send it to me?
Hmmm, it's a Russian webside. Is that probably a problem?
The Langley model is nice but it is one with oddly shaped gun models.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/oykwt57ueqar8zs/Langley_1939%21.7z
the_frog
11-02-17, 06:04 PM
Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase):
https://image.ibb.co/eb3VSb/tug.jpg
Best regards,
Vd
In case you want a working model of the Hotchkiss 6-pounder, I did once a model of the 3-pounder. Since very similar, it might not take much to create the 6-pounder, too.
Otherwise, remove them and replace it by more modern devices :D
I have a question about Wings3D : would it be possible to resize several objects while keeping their relative position to each others, without being forced to do 3 different actions : combine them, resize and separate them again ?
And also : would it be possible to resize a model, while keeping centered on the origin (0) point ?
Easy:
select all the objects you want to scale;
right click in the geometry window to make the contextual menu to pop up;
click on "scale uniform"using the right or middle mouse button;
select the point that you want your objects to be scaled from (it can be a single vertex, or an edge, a face or a group of faces/edges/faces, in which case Wings will calculate the scaling point as the median of the selected elements);
right click to confirm;
scale as usual (by dragging the mouse; tab button for numerical input) :03:
Do you still need help with the Goliah unit?
In case you want a working model of the Hotchkiss 6-pounder, I did once a model of the 3-pounder. Since very similar, it might not take much to create the 6-pounder, too.
Otherwise, remove them and replace it by more modern devices :D
If you want, 6-pounder could be an interesting addition, not only for this unit =) Can you create them please? :salute:
Best regards,
Vd
Jeff-Groves
11-02-17, 06:46 PM
Hmmm, it's a Russian webside. Is that probably a problem?
The Langley model is nice but it is one with oddly shaped gun models.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/oykwt57ueqar8zs/Langley_1939%21.7z
I don't care about most of that model.
It is a base for the USS Cyclops though.
:03:
Kendras
11-02-17, 11:13 PM
Easy:
select all the objects you want to scale;
right click in the geometry window to make the contextual menu to pop up;
click on "scale uniform"using the right or middle mouse button;
select the point that you want your objects to be scaled from (it can be a single vertex, or an edge, a face or a group of faces/edges/faces, in which case Wings will calculate the scaling point as the median of the selected elements);
right click to confirm;
scale as usual (by dragging the mouse; tab button for numerical input) :03:
Thank you. I've found another way to do it : select all sub-objects, choose vertices selection, right click and select absolute values for scaling. Then, I can choose 0 for every X Y Z for the center of rescaling.
Do you still need help with the Goliah unit?
Yes, I don't understand why SH3 is stuck when I launch a mission containing the new boat. Maybe it's the number "6" in the 3D model preview of S3D, I don't know what number to choose (0, 1, 6 ????) ...
Else, I have converted the russian destroyer Gremyashchy, but it doesn't appear in the list of sea units of the mission editor ... :doh: I have no luck today.
Preview :
https://i.imgur.com/V8s2t4v.png
I wonder if I can share this work with public, there may be copyrights. :o
The model of the 45ft fast motorboat is prefectly correct; the one on the right picture is a 45ft motor/diesel picket boat. [...] The 45ft fast motor boat and picket boat shared the same hull. So, creating a model of the picket boat based on the motorboat model is possible ;-)
The hulls of both ships don't seem identical. I will delete these boats from KGV, until you feel OK to model them. :-)
the_frog
11-03-17, 02:34 PM
The hulls of both ships don't seem identical. I will delete these boats from KGV, until you feel OK to model them. :-)
Do we mean the same things? The of boat/ship is the body that sits in the water ... the parts on top of it the superstructure. The hulls of the 45ft fast motor boat and 45ft motor picket boat had slightly different bows but the rest was pretty much same. The superstructures, however, were much different.
I am not planing to model a British capitol ship and so I won't model any of the respective boats. So, you either stay with the 45ft fast motor boat or with the generic SH5 boats :03:
the_frog
11-03-17, 02:36 PM
I don't care about most of that model.
It is a base for the USS Cyclops though.
:03:
Right, Langley = Jupiter :D
Jeff-Groves
11-03-17, 06:12 PM
Right, Langley = Jupiter :D
Yep. Sister to the Cyclops.
Interesting damage model on it. Would be great to have that in SH4/5
Oh! Thanks for the DL link!
Kendras
11-03-17, 09:56 PM
When I add the newly imported Goliath tugboat in a mission, SH3 is stuck on the launching screen, and I have to kill the program to go out. :wah:
So, I have the same problem for the Gremyashchy ! :wah: :wah: :wah:
the_frog
11-04-17, 04:43 AM
Interesting damage model on it. Would be great to have that in SH4/5
Yes, nice damage models. Despite very few flaws, the WoW models are of remarkably high quality.
Oh! Thanks for the DL link!
You're welcome
the_frog
11-04-17, 04:45 AM
So, I have the same problem for the Gremyashchy ! :wah: :wah: :wah:
Have you tried using small texture files?
Kendras
11-04-17, 07:49 AM
Have you tried using small texture files?
That was the right way ! I put out of the .dat file the big textures, and now SH3 runs fine ! Thank you Sir ! :yeah:
https://i.imgur.com/N0jmAJE.png
Hi Kendras!
That's amazing, i also was working on this little model :P
At moment, i'm just mapping textures (early wip phase)
:up:
Here's my own WIP version assembled for trials: :salute:
https://image.ibb.co/hbrg2b/SH3_Img_4_11_2017_15_14_40_272.jpg
Note old paddle tug's textures...
Just a question: how we can release those works without copyright problems? Can we ask someone permissions for fair use? :timeout:
Best regards,
Vd
Kendras
11-04-17, 11:41 AM
Here's my own WIP version assembled for trials: :salute:
https://image.ibb.co/hbrg2b/SH3_Img_4_11_2017_15_14_40_272.jpg
Note old paddle tug's textures...
Nice work, mate ! :salute:
Just a question: how we can release those works without copyright problems? Can we ask someone permissions for fair use? :timeout:
I think we should ask them directly.
How accurate are Wargaming's (World of Warship) ship models?
I ask so because...
https://p3dm.ru/xfsearch/World+of+Warships/
So, what's your idea ? :)
I appreciate ship models with realistic hulls :D
I know you also like destroyers ... What do you think about this one ?
https://i.imgur.com/bmnJCqp.png
the_frog
11-04-17, 07:11 PM
@VonDos & kendras:
The tug looks good with the original well as with the SH textures.
Whom to ask for permission to release the models? Those who ripped and uploaded them? The original owner? The release of the ripped models is likely covered by the webpages statement that all models are only for private use. Is non-profit distribution of the models for other games alos covered? No idea.
I will use the models as already stated -- as kind of 3D plans for my own creations in case I cannot find useful plans.
There are already models of the Gnevny-/Gremyashchiy-/Project 7-type destroyers in SH3/SH4. They are rather simple. The WoW model, however, is a different thing. It captures nicely the fine lines of those ocean greyhounds. The Italian design influence is striking :D
Kendras
11-09-17, 05:51 AM
The release of the ripped models is likely covered by the webpages statement that all models are only for private use.
I didn't find such statement.
Is non-profit distribution of the models for other games alos covered?
That's the one million dollar question. :03:
There are already models of the Gnevny-/Gremyashchiy-/Project 7-type destroyers in SH3/SH4. They are rather simple.
I didn't know that ?!
------
Another question : is it possible to make a sea unit separate in more than 2 parts when it's hit by a torpedo ? :hmm2:
the_frog
11-09-17, 12:57 PM
I didn't find such statement.
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171109/5iayqo7o.jpg (http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171109/5iayqo7o.jpg)
I didn't know that ?!
The first, very simple versions came early in the SH3 mod history, an improved model is included in the SH4 Soviet Waterways Mod.
Another question : is it possible to make a sea unit separate in more than 2 parts when it's hit by a torpedo ? :hmm2:
As far as I understand, in SH3 and SH4 ships can only break into two parts. Air planes seem to disintegrate into more parts.
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