[WIP] Building an oil refinery [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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Kendras

08-20-17, 07:22 AM

gap

08-20-17, 07:43 AM

For a new single mission (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=233044), I'm currently trying to create a large oil coastal installation, in the same way as basic harbours, for Aruba and Curacao islands.

I think the oil storage tanks will be added as separated destroyable land units. Don't know if terrain locations can be destroyed.

http://www.lago-colony.com/WEB_SITE_DEC_30_2004/LAGO-COLONY/PHOTOS/PHOTOS2.jpg

They can't, and AI units won't attack them. Better following your main plan, and setting them as land units :03:

P.S: have you seen these models?
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search.html?backendClass=both&q=oil%20storage%20tanks&backendClass=both

Kendras

08-20-17, 09:30 AM

They can't

OK. :up:

P.S: have you seen these models?
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search.html?backendClass=both&q=oil%20storage%20tanks&backendClass=both

They are very pretty ! :yep: Perhaps we (you ? :D) might add them later in game. For a first try, I will use only stock game models.

:salute:

Kendras

08-20-17, 10:59 AM

How it is looking so far :

http://i.imgur.com/4nka6ME.png

Kendras

08-20-17, 11:26 AM

gap

08-20-17, 11:26 AM

They are very pretty ! :yep: Perhaps we (you ? :D) might add them later in game. For a first try, I will use only stock game models.

Roger that :up:

How it is looking so far :

http://i.imgur.com/4nka6ME.png

So nice! :yeah:

Kendras

08-20-17, 12:32 PM

gap

08-20-17, 12:51 PM

So, I added placement nodes which add models contained in Karbor_kit.dat, and the refinery is correctly placed in game. But then, I added placement nodes adding a new model placed into a different .dat file (still in Library folder), and the game crashes ... :-?

Any ideas ?

It must be a trivial error as we have already used placement nodes pointing to custom library files.
For a start, I would try and link the new model directly to the location file you are working on just to make sure that nothing is wrong with that model... :hmm2:

Kendras

08-20-17, 01:36 PM

It must be a trivial error as we have already used placement nodes pointing to custom library files.
For a start, I would try and link the new model directly to the location file you are working on just to make sure that nothing is wrong with that model... :hmm2:

OK, I will see that. :)

BTW, did you see my previous post ?

@ gap : Could you help me ? Go in Harbor_kit.dat in data\Library, and find the model called 300/150_rectangle (node 41). I need a triangle which is half this rectangle, well textured with the same textures. And the same triangle but in the other direction. Can you do that for me please ? :D

gap

08-20-17, 02:12 PM

OK, I will see that. :)

BTW, did you see my previous post ?

Sorry, I had missed that :doh:

@ gap : Could you help me ? Go in Harbor_kit.dat in data\Library, and find the model called 300/150_rectangle (node 41). I need a triangle which is half this rectangle, well textured with the same textures. And the same triangle but in the other direction. Can you do that for me please ? :D

No problem. After dinner I will do that :up:

Kendras

08-20-17, 03:22 PM

gap

08-20-17, 04:47 PM

OK. I give up. It seems impossible to have placement nodes in a terrain location file, which are linked to another node (in a .dat file stored in Library folder) containing also placement nodes (linked to nodes with 3D models in another .dat file of the library folder) ... although it worked one time !

:k_confused:

Do you mean that we cannot have on the same file placement nodes pointing to models stored in different library files? :hmmm:

If that is the problem, why don't you store the new models directly in the new location file? Or alternatively you could place it Harbor_kit.dat :yep:

gap

08-20-17, 05:03 PM

@ gap : Could you help me ? Go in Harbor_kit.dat in data\Library, and find the model called 300/150_rectangle (node 41). I need a triangle which is half this rectangle, well textured with the same textures. And the same triangle but in the other direction. Can you do that for me please ? :D

For making usre that I wont misunderstand shape and proportions, could you please quickly draw the two triangular-shaped objects that you need, next to the original 300/150_rectangle model? :)

Kendras

08-20-17, 05:36 PM

For making usre that I wont misunderstand shape and proportions, could you please quickly draw the two triangular-shaped objects that you need, next to the original 300/150_rectangle model? :)

http://i.imgur.com/DnKG3rF.png

http://i.imgur.com/zwJBfJb.png

http://i.imgur.com/ViFaeQ2.png

Else, I'm searching a solution for 3 hours, and still no result :wah: ... that's crazy ! Nothing is working ! It worked only 2 times, and then only CTD, even if removing modifications after first CTD following a working attempt.

Here is the structure of the current location file (no CTD, but nothing visible in game) :

http://i.imgur.com/wfM1cwm.png

gap

08-20-17, 06:43 PM

http://i.imgur.com/DnKG3rF.png

http://i.imgur.com/zwJBfJb.png

http://i.imgur.com/ViFaeQ2.png

https://www.mediafire.com/file/sssuy0l9go2httx/300-150_triangles.7z :up:

Else, I'm searching a solution for 3 hours, and still no result :wah: ... that's crazy ! Nothing is working ! It worked only 2 times, and then only CTD, even if removing modifications after first CTD following a working attempt.

Here is the structure of the current location file (no CTD, but nothing visible in game) :

http://i.imgur.com/wfM1cwm.png

Please upload somewhere the latest version of your mod (together with your testing mission), for me to dig into its files. Maybe, with a fresher eye, I will be able to spot the problem

Kendras

08-21-17, 02:49 AM

https://www.mediafire.com/file/sssuy0l9go2httx/300-150_triangles.7z :up:

Thank you very much, dear friend ! :yeah: I will try this right now.

Please upload somewhere the latest version of your mod (together with your testing mission), for me to dig into its files. Maybe, with a fresher eye, I will be able to spot the problem

I will try again this morning to solve the enigma. :03:

gap

08-21-17, 04:12 AM

Thank you very much, dear friend ! :yeah: I will try this right now.

My pleasure :up:

I will try again this morning to solve the enigma. :03:

Okay, I am sure you will manage :up:

Kendras

08-21-17, 02:35 PM

Okay, I am sure you will manage :up:

Indeed, I solved the problem during the morning. :)

Progress :

http://i.imgur.com/nwM9UEv.png

Next step is to build the harbor.

Kendras

08-22-17, 09:30 AM

http://i.imgur.com/xqcs6GE.png

http://i.imgur.com/DrksmCt.png

Kendras

08-23-17, 04:52 AM

Testing a new black smoke effect ... :hmmm:

http://i.imgur.com/RcCwdXQ.png

Kendras

08-23-17, 07:17 AM

http://i.imgur.com/cddncVE.png

gap

08-24-17, 10:24 AM

Looking very nice. :up:

My remarks in detail:

Port and oil refinery structures look a bit uncolorful. Not really your fault, since stock textures used on them are quite boring :03:

Would if be possible moving/rotating the Aruba location, so that its outline matches better the local coast outline?

http://i.imgur.com/A8H3THB.jpg

Some of the oil storage tanks located farther from the shoreline look like they are standing directly from the grass; could you raise a bit the whole location so that the concrete pavement will stand higher than the underllying terrain in every portion of the refinery area?

The smoke effect looks amazing, but maybe such a big dark plume is a bit out of place. I don't know what 40's US regulations on industrial emissions were (probably there wasn't any regulation), nor I know the technical details of oil refining of the time, but I know that black smoke is the result of incomplete hydrocarbon combustion, and I would expect a refinery to emit large quantities of it, only if it was set on fire, or if, due to poor offciency, there was a big quantity of side-products that had to be burned. In modern oil refineries, smoke coils getting out from cooling towers and furnace stacks are mostly composed of carbon dioxide and water vapour, and they are mostly white or white-gray:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horiavarlan/4273041695
http://www.gettyimages.it/detail/foto/smoke-emitting-from-smoke-stacks-of-an-oil-refinery-fotografie-stock/85903068

I think the only time you will see huge quantities of black smoke getting out from a refinery, it is when the plant has to be shutdowns/restarted, smoke getting out from the top of gas flares (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_flare) (the thin stacks used for burning-off the excess of natural gases, often surmounted by a pilot flame, other link (https://www.quora.com/In-refineries-why-do-they-have-a-constantly-burning-flame-at-the-top-of-some-tower-What-purpose-does-it-serve)):

http://www.gettyimages.it/detail/foto/smoke-emitting-from-smoke-stacks-of-an-oil-refinery-fotografie-stock/85903068 (top picture)
https://www.google.it/search?biw=1536&bih=711&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=oil+refinery+black+smokes&oq=oil+refinery+black+smokes&gs_l=psy-ab.3...0.0.0.8390.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..6 4.psy-ab..0.0.0.VHimtYXT6KA

propbeanie

08-24-17, 11:09 AM

... looks to me like it took a few hits from an 88mm deck gun there gap...

I am astounded by the amount of work you two do with this game. Excellent stuff. Don't forget that you can use the GWX Terrain Extractor to "level the playing field" (play on words) to help the "concrete" pad of the refinery fit the hill. In other words, you could do some digital "excavating" and / or "land-filling". You might even have to "dredge a channel" for the big tankers to come in and load... :salute:

gap

08-24-17, 11:44 AM

... looks to me like it took a few hits from an 88mm deck gun there gap...

You are probably right :doh:

If that was the case, the current smoke effect would be totally accurate, and my suggestion would be to add white smokes or pilot flames to some of the chimneys :up:

I am astounded by the amount of work you two do with this game. Excellent stuff.

I thank you for your praises, though I have no merit on this project :)

Don't forget that you can use the GWX Terrain Extractor to "level the playing field" (play on words) to help the "concrete" pad of the refinery fit the hill. In other words, you could do some digital "excavating" and / or "land-filling". You might even have to "dredge a channel" for the big tankers to come in and load... :salute:

Sure, that's a possibility, but due to extremely low resolution of SHIII terrain masks/elevation maps, editing those files is more useful for making some large scale terrain adjustements than for small fine-tunings :yep:

Kendras

08-24-17, 01:07 PM

Would if be possible moving/rotating the Aruba location, so that its outline matches better the local coast outline?

http://i.imgur.com/A8H3THB.jpg

Yes, I'm working on this, with satellite views.

Some of the oil storage tanks located farther from the shoreline look like they are standing directly from the grass; could you raise a bit the whole location so that the concrete pavement will stand higher than the underllying terrain in every portion of the refinery area

I will see what can be done.

The smoke effect looks amazing, but maybe such a big dark plume is a bit out of place. I don't know what 40's US regulations on industrial emissions were (probably there wasn't any regulation), nor I know the technical details of oil refining of the time, but I know that black smoke is the result of incomplete hydrocarbon combustion, and I would expect a refinery to emit large quantities of it, only if it was set on fire ...

... that's the case :)

... looks to me like it took a few hits from an 88mm deck gun there gap...

... that's the goal. For now, that's only land units which are emitting this black smoke. I have to create destroyable oil storage tanks, with the proper burning effect. I was testing the smoke effect. I would it to be bigger, as on this pic :

http://i.imgur.com/fhmrcuV.png

I have also to create the flames effect :

http://i.imgur.com/K7a1h1Y.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Cq7hUMPng

But I think I will need to create a special animation effect (I know it's possible, as in SH4 effects mod for SH3). :hmmm:

If that was the case, the current smoke effect would be totally accurate, and my suggestion would be to add white smokes or pilot flames to some of the chimneys :up:

Yes, that's my plan too, as on this picture of Aruba refinery :

http://i.imgur.com/59qDQGl.jpg

I thank you for your praises, though I have no merit on this project :)

You forgot the triangles ... :D

propbeanie

08-24-17, 01:52 PM

See gap? He's pulling you in... :har:

As "coarse" as the SH4 GWX changes can be, is it even coarser in SH3? I forget... 255 colors?

gap

08-24-17, 02:22 PM

Yes, I'm working on this, with satellite views.

[...]

I will see what can be done.

:up:

... that's the goal. For now, that's only land units which are emitting this black smoke. I have to create destroyable oil storage tanks, with the proper burning effect. I was testing the smoke effect. I would it to be bigger, as on this pic...

You might increase particle size, but the effect would look coarser probably, or you might increase particle spawn rate and radius, but the effect would use more computer resources :hmmm:

I have also to create the flames effect...

But I think I will need to create a special animation effect (I know it's possible, as in SH4 effects mod for SH3). :hmmm:

Sure it is, and it is used in SHIII too: there is at least an explosion particle that I am aware of, using an animated texture :up:

You can look on the web for a ready-to-use animated flame texture, or you can look for two or more flame textures, crop/resize them so they have the same size, and interpolate the animation frames between them with a morphing program :03:

Yes, that's my plan too, as on this picture of Aruba refinery...

Amazing :up:

Don't forget flames on top of flare stacks. Should SHIII miss a model of them, I think that extracting them from one of the 3Dwarehouse models and importing them in game shouldn't be too complicated :D

You forgot the triangles ... :D

See gap? He's pulling you in... :har:

Come on guys... a couple of triangles? :rotfl2:

As "coarse" as the SH4 GWX changes can be, is it even coarser in SH3? I forget... 255 colors?

Probably coarser :-?

Kendras

08-24-17, 03:14 PM

... and interpolate the animation frames between them with a morphing program

Mmh, I have to figure out what it is and how it works.

Don't forget flames on top of flare stacks. Should SHIII miss a model of them, I think that extracting them from one of the 3Dwarehouse models and importing them in game shouldn't be too complicated :D

There is a high chimney model in harbours_kit.dat. :hmmm:

gap

08-24-17, 04:47 PM

Mmh, I have to figure out what it is and how it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphing
https://www.appginger.com/free-morphing-software/ :03:

There is a high chimney model in harbours_kit.dat. :hmmm:

I am not an expert on this topic, buy far as I can tell, there should be two main types of chimneys tha can be found in a oil plant:

- chimneys surmounting distillation columns (these should have white smoke)
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/FCWPAM/distillation-columns-and-heating-furnace-the-equipment-for-oil-refinery-FCWPAM.jpg

- fase flares (much thinner and higher than the former, these should have a flame on top):
https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000fRQZ6U.4cV8/fit=1000x750/Oil-Refinery-Flare-013.jpg

MLF

03-20-18, 02:36 PM

Hi Kendras,

Have you made any progress on the refinery?

regards,

MLF