Soviet Campaign (North Atlantic 1984)

[aaken]

Fellow subsimmers,

here is the beta version of the Soviet Campaign.
It now includes both 1984 Campaign (you will find it in the campaign menu as North Atlantic Red 1984) and 1968 Campaign (North Atlantic Red 1968)

Link for download:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5264&act=down

To install, unzip the ColdWatersSovietCampaign.zip file, copy the override folder in you Cold Waters install path (typically C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Cold Waters\ColdWaters_Data\StreamingAssets).

Here is the main information:

Soviet Campaigns (North Atlantic Red 1984 and North Atlantic Red 1968)

The mod is an attempt at making 1984 and 1968 campaign playable from the soviet perspective.
Due to current (as of 1.05b version) lack of NATO surface ships, a few surface ships have been created and adapted using soviet ship 3d models.
Playable submarines:
* wp_ssbn_typhoon
* wp_ssgn_oscar
* wp_ssgn_charlie1
* wp_ssgn_charlie2
* wp_ssgn_echo2
* wp_ssn_sierra
* wp_ssn_alfa
* wp_ssn_victor3
* wp_ssn_victor2
* wp_ssn_victor1
* wp_ssn_november
* wp_ss_kilo
* wp_ss_tango
* wp_ss_foxtrot

Added NATO merchants (based on wp_vt_boris_chilikin, wp_vt_dubna, wp_vt_kazbek, wp_vtr_amguema, wp_vtr_andizhan, wp_vtr_andizhan_mod, wp_vtr_yuniy_partizan, wp_fv_trawler models):
* usn_vt_fleet-tanker
* usn_vt_small-fl-tanker
* usn_vt_oiler
* usn_vtr_transport
* usn_vtr_cargo
* usn_vtr_cargo_mod
* usn_vtr_small-cargo
* usn_fv_trawler

Added USN units:
* usn_bpk_perry (based on Kashin model)
* usn_bpk_knox (based on Kashin model)
* usn_bpk_spruance (based on Udaloy model)
* usn_bpk_adams (based on Kashin model)
* usn_bpk_farragut (based on Kashin model)
* usn_bpk_garcia (based on Kashin model)
* usn_takr_essex (based on Kiev model)
* usn_ssn_los_angeles_688i
* usn_ssbn_ohio (based on Narwhal)
* usn_ssbn_ethan_allen (based on Skipjack)
* usn_ssbn_washington (based on Skipjack)

Added USN aerial units:
* SH60 Lamp (based on Helix model)
* SH3D Sea King (based on Helix model)

Added weapons:
* MK-46 torpedo
* MK-50 torpedo
* ASROC
* P6 Shaddock
* P70 Ametist
* P120 Malakhit
* P500 Bazalt
* P700 Granit

Note:
* US submarines signatures have been added.
* Soviet submarines have, mostly, the weapon load-outs of the original game, with the exception of VLS equipped submarines (Oscar and Typhoon). Where changed, the changes were done based on information available on www.deepstorm.ru.
* Knox class FFG is equipped with 2 mk-42 guns, 4 mk-46 torpedo launchers and 2 ASROC launchers (4+4 missiles), 4 CIWS gun install, 1 LAMP helicopter, chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-26 A/P sonar, AN/SQR-18 TA, AN/SPS-10 radar
* Perry class FFG is equipped with 2 mk-38 guns, 6 mk-50 torpedo launchers, 4 CIWS gun installs, 2 LAMP helicopters, chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-56 A/P sonar, AN/SQR-19 TA, AN/SPS-49 radar
* Spruance class DDG is equipped with 2 mk-45 guns, 2x3 mk-46 torpedo launchers, 2 ASROC launchers (4+4 missiles), 2 Tomahawk launchers (4+4 missiles), 4 CIWS gun install, 1 LAMP helicopter, chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-53 A/P sonar, AN/SQR-19 TA, AN/SPS-55 radar
* LAMP helicopter is equipped with AN/APS-124 radar, AN/AQS-13 A/P dipping sonar, 3 mk-50 torpedoes, depth bombs, active & passive sono-buoys
* Farragut class destroyer is equipped with 2 mk-42 guns, 6 mk-46 torpedo launchers and 2 ASROC launchers (4+4 missiles), CIWS gun install, chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-23 A/P sonar, AN/SPS-10 radar
* Charles F. Adams destroyer is equipped with 2 mk-42 guns, 4 mk-46 torpedo launchers and 2 ASROC launchers (4+4 missiles), CIWS gun install, chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-23 A/P sonar, AN/SPS-10 radar
* Garcia class destroyer is equipped with 2 mk-33 guns, 6 mk-46 torpedo launchers and 2 ASROC launchers (4+4 missiles), chaff, noisemaker, AN/SQS-26 A/P sonar, AN/SPS-10 radar
* Essex class ASW carrier is equipped with 2 mk-38 guns, CIWS gun install, chaff, noisemaker, 14 SH3D Sea King helicopters, AN/SQS-23 A/P sonar, AN/SPS-10 radar

Each US unit has its own sensors, but no claim is made on sensors realism.
MAD detection range has been lowered to 500 yards, in config file.
Noise levels of all units has been adjusted (see database in excel sheet) in an attempt to make the sim more balanced yet realistic.

Playable submarines in the 1984 campaign are:
* Victor II
* Victor III
* Alfa
* Sierra
* Oscar
* Charlie I
* Charlie II

Playable submarines in the 1968 campaign are:
* Victor I
* November
* Echo2
* Foxtrot
* Charlie I

Main campaign scope is to cut off North Atlantic sea lanes.
Current mission types for player unit are SSN_Wolfpack, Resupply_Convoy apart of the usual (hardcoded) RTB and SSBN_Patrol.
Current mission types for enemy units are SSN_Patrol, Resupply_Convoy, ASW_Patrol

Credits: CaptainX3 for original model of Typhoon, Oscar and Los Angeles Improved with VLS, P500 and P700 missiles, Mk50 torpedo and soviet weapon sprites.

changelog:
ver 1.0 first release
ver 1.01 second release

- Merged files changed with version 1.05b.
- Temporary fix for asroc bug, with ship firing asroc but torpedo not dropping and missile circling over drop point. Apparently torpedo drop from missiles is hardcoded so Knox and Spruance class units will shoot ss-n-14 silex with range revised to meet asroc range. Silex torpedo has been changed to mk46.
- Slight adjustment to sonar parameters for US surface ships and helicopter
- Fixed ownship invulnerability bug

ver 1.01b hotfix1

- Fixed unsinkability of Perry and Knox frigates

ver 1.01c hotfix2

- Fixed Charlie2 bug that cause the game to crash upon selecting it

ver 1.02 third release

- fixed several errors in 1984 campaign and added 1968 campaign

ver 1.03 fourth release

- Reduced height of ownship icon on Condition display. Now bottom of ownship indicates depth of your boat
- Fixed problem with Charlie 1 and Charlie 2 damage control panels not showing
- Added missions to locate and sink Carrier group in both 1984 and 1968 campaigns

ver 1.03a hotfix

- created distinct models for early ASROC, firing Mk46 mod1 torpedoes and late ASROC, firing Mk46 mod5 torpedoes
- early ASROC associated to Farragut, Garcia and Charles F. Adams class destroyers, late ASROC associated to Spruance and Knox class escorts
- created late Essex class ASW carrier model for 1984 campaign, identical to Essex class ASW carrier but equipped with SH-60 helicopters instead of SH-3D
- adjusted warhead weight of light weight torpedoes.It will require more hits from Mk46, Mk50 and UGMT-1 to kill a submarine. Adjusted warhead weight of Soviet torpedoes and missiles
In case you want to let me know about bugs, please post here or send me a PM.

Aaken

[max-peck]

This sound very promising aaken :up:

[discfanatic]

so excited for this mod

[Fercyful]

Hurra !! :up:

[cookiemonste]

Why do I have the feeling that everybody is going to play as Alfa? :D
Sounds interessting. Keep up the work.

[aaken]

Link to first beta release added on first post of the thread
Cheers,
Aaken

[cookiemonste]

Some symbols are missing in the sonar screen and everytime I fire a torpedo, the wire breaks instantly.
And the US sensors seem a bit too good IMO.
Also, you can't die, your hull reaches a negative amount and you just spawn outside the mission area. (Was using a Victor III)

[aaken]

Thanks for feedback.
I'm merging files with 1.05b (which also happened yesterday) and fixing a few things.
I've kept the wirebreak as per original (only test-71 is wireguided though).
Which symbols are missing? I'll try to kill me in a campaign (which is not too hard :) ) and check the zombie issue.

Regards,
Aaken

[aaken]

Campaign updated (ver 1.01). Link updated in first post of thread

Aaken

[cookiemonste]

The arrow symols and the check box in the sonar screen was missing. Now it's there.
I also don't like the damage controll scematic of the Victor III.
http://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/cold-war/images/navires/urss/photos/v1submarine.id.ru.jpg this one is better imo, the colours confuse me in game.
And how weak did you make the soviet torpedos?
I've put 4 into a Knox and it's still floating.

[aaken]

The arrow symols and the check box in the sonar screen was missing. Now it's there.
I also don't like the damage controll scematic of the Victor III.
http://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/cold-war/images/navires/urss/photos/v1submarine.id.ru.jpg this one is better imo, the colours confuse me in game.
And how weak did you make the soviet torpedos?
I've put 4 into a Knox and it's still floating.

I did not change vanilla torpedoes or missiles (except the ss-n-14, since I had to use it to mimick ASROC). Please note that patch 1.05 has generally increased torpedo and missile warheads with respect to 1.04.
Cheers,

Aaken

[cookiemonste]

The Knox is unsinkable, I've put 5 in it as test, it will sink to a certain degree, but it will still move and shoot at you.
Radar does not seem to work, put the radar mast up and I got no contact updates.

[aaken]

Found the cause of the unsinkable. Correcting

[aaken]

Cannot replicate radar not working. Tried victor3 radar in a training mission and it seems to work

[aaken]

Updated with fix for unsinkable Perry and Knox.
Sorry, I had made a mistake. I gave to both classes the CIWS but the 3D model used (Kashin) does not have them and this created the problem.

[cookiemonste]

I will try again, maybe my radar was damaged and I did not see it.
Will report back when I tried it.

[suitednate]

Played one mission in an Oscar and promptly got blown up by an American helo dropping two torpedos on me. Man that Oscar handles like a brick. Lol. Anyways I was rescued by friendly comrades and went to select a new sub for continuing the campaign. I selected the Charlie 2 and the game seemed to crash/lock up at a screen that looked like this.......https://imgur.com/a/9Frp0.

PS. Arrggghh. Looks like I'm having trouble posting an image. I posted a link to my image at Imgur and it doesn't look like it's visible on here. Just follow the link I guess. Any tips for how to correctly post an I shed where it's viewable on here would be welcome.

[aaken]

Fixed crash with Charlie2. Updated link at first page

[suitednate]

Got a mission (as a Soviet) to find and intercept an enemy cruise missle submarine (I'm an Oscar class).........gotta be a bug right?

PS. I love this mod. ��

[suitednate]

I failed to find the cruise missile sub.......mission failed.....I get a news report of how I failed to protect "Soviet Convoys".....what??!! Didn't know the Soviets had convoys ding dongin around the Norwegian or Greenland Seas in the event of hostilities between them and NATO......

What Soviet convoys?! This wasn't a war strategy of their's (the Soviets)......this makes sense on no level.

Again I love your mod. These just seem like glaring oversights.

[cookiemonste]

The american subs are ultra hard to find.
That might be due to the fact that that the russians are not intended to be played.

[aaken]

Will check the coherency of the tasking messages. I am converting the 1968 campaign and thinking to include asw carriers (like essex, iwo jima and so on) to the asw groups. Unfortunately this week I will be on business trip. I may try to work a bit in hotel.
Cheers
Aaken

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[Daldryk]

Russian submarines are really too disadvantaged vis-à-vis the Americans. Their code must be rewritten.

[aaken]

Indeed the sonar and acoustic performance has not been changed with respect to vanilla 1.05.
Also consider that you are probably playing with more advanced soviet subs, like the victor 3. Wait to try the old november in the 68 campaign ; )
I have not changed any of those values since i don't have data to back the modification. I mean, i could arbitrarily increase or reduce the noise level of such boat but it would remain an arbitrary modification. But I'm open to suggestions

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[Daldryk]

Hello

I play the Alfa and before it detects something receives 3 torpedoes. :yep:

I would like to believe that the American submarines detects more easily but there is abuse there.
In fact the game is not made to play the Russians or you have to change the values.

[cookiemonste]

The Alfa is just noisy.
I tried the Vic III and the Sierra and I only detected a Permit at 3,3 kyrd with active.

[aaken]

I remember the lwami mod from early dangerous waters days. There is a pretty extensive list of units that can be compared (more or less) in terms of self noise. May be worth experimenting

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[aaken]

Actually in dw iirc the noise level is the base noise plus a noise increase that depends on speed. Iirc this noise increase with speed was also specified in database and could be set to values different from unit to unit. Not sure this is the case with cold waters

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[jonass]

Only Russian sub that I can play with some confidence is the Sierra (noiselvl 125). The rest are a pain and are very easily detected by nmy escorts and subs.

Only way (imho) to be competetive at a reasonable lvl is to alter the "SelfNoise=" setting inte appropriate vessel .txt file in the D:\Your game installation path\MODS\ColdWatersSovietCampaignRev1.01\ColdWate rs_Data\StreamingAssets\override\vessels

For example. Victor III is at SelfNoise=137, Los Angeles is at 115 and Narwhal at 105. Huge difference.

I play the Victor III and set SelfNoise to 125 which makes it (according to my skill lvl) competetive enough. Sure, somewhat harder than a fairly modern US sub (since hydrophones etc are worse as well) but that is how I want it.

Cheers :Kaleun_Salute:

[Doctor Haider]

Hmmm. Let's take a look to the well known picture from Polmar.
According to it Alfa should be roughly equvalent to Permit class in basic noise level (but Alfa is still more noisy when running at 40 knots of course). Also even early Akula is slightly less noisy than the Sturgeon class, which is still in service in 1984.

Also I've seen the exact meaning of the Charlie class noise level in the Russian sources. There it's claimed to be equal to 110 Db in the audible part of the sound spectre (at top speed). But this information seems to be doubtful to me.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Sub_Noise_Comparison_ENG.svg/640px-Sub_Noise_Comparison_ENG.svg.png

[denis_469]

Hmmm. Let's take a look to the well known picture from Polmar.
According to it Alfa should be roughly equvalent to Permit class in basic noise level (but Alfa is still more noisy when running at 40 knots of course). Also even early Akula is slightly less noisy than the Sturgeon class, which is still in service in 1984. The Charlie class is not on the scheme but it should be somewhat less noisy than Victor I.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Sub_Noise_Comparison_ENG.svg/640px-Sub_Noise_Comparison_ENG.svg.png

It is western point of view. Not need think, that it is really proprotion. So it is data most secret now.

[Doctor Haider]

It is western point of view. Not need think, that it is really proprotion. So it is data most secret now.

Yes, but it's better than nothing.

[suitednate]

Shouldn't the Charlie classes have anti-ship missiles and a VLS? I'm not seeing missiles for them when loading them out.

[aaken]

I am finishing the 1968 campaign. Fixed a few issues, including the Charlie vls. Reworked sound levels for all units. I think I should be ready to release this week

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[suitednate]

I am finishing the 1968 campaign. Fixed a few issues, including the Charlie vls. Reworked sound levels for all units. I think I should be ready to release this week

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Awesome. :salute:

[aaken]

Mod updated, link at first page

[Doctor Haider]

I would added some new types of missions such as:

Hunt for the US carrier strike group (when it's all too bad and NATO attempts to take control of Greenland - Barentz seas).
SSBN bastion defence.
Spetznaz group insertion.

[aaken]

The carrier battle group hunt is on my list of things to do. Ssbn bastion defence could be problematic since so far i don't know how to add friendly units in a mission (don't know if it's possibile )

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[Doctor Haider]

The carrier battle group hunt is on my list of things to do. Ssbn bastion defence could be problematic since so far i don't know how to add friendly units in a mission (don't know if it's possibile )

Inviato dal mio SM-A300FU utilizzando Tapatalk

Did you try some flag like NumberOfFriendlyUnits for example?

[ForumsTerrorist]

Only Russian sub that I can play with some confidence is the Sierra (noiselvl 125). The rest are a pain and are very easily detected by nmy escorts and subs.

Only way (imho) to be competetive at a reasonable lvl is to alter the "SelfNoise=" setting inte appropriate vessel .txt file in the D:\Your game installation path\MODS\ColdWatersSovietCampaignRev1.01\ColdWate rs_Data\StreamingAssets\override\vessels

For example. Victor III is at SelfNoise=137, Los Angeles is at 115 and Narwhal at 105. Huge difference.

I play the Victor III and set SelfNoise to 125 which makes it (according to my skill lvl) competetive enough. Sure, somewhat harder than a fairly modern US sub (since hydrophones etc are worse as well) but that is how I want it.

Cheers :Kaleun_Salute:
Maybe, in the same way it's possible to play the Narwhal, we could add the lone Victor II, K-467, that was a testbed (my guess) for the later tandem screw used on the Victor IIIs?

http://imgur.com/a/t6UjU

Admittedly I'm unsure when it had it, but given that supposedly the Soviets rarely changed the screws on existing hulls it's possible it had it during 1984. If the game ever adds proper diesel-electric mechanics then we could just add the various holes in the water the Soviets made. :v Also, if or when it's possible to add 3D models, other novelties that could be added would be the Papa class (ancestor to the Alfa, and still the fastest submarine ever built) in the 1968 campaign, and the Mike class (a combat capable technology testbed; kind of a proto-Akula?) in 1984.

[The Bandit]

Maybe, in the same way it's possible to play the Narwhal, we could add the lone Victor II, K-467, that was a testbed (my guess) for the later tandem screw used on the Victor IIIs?

http://imgur.com/a/t6UjU

Admittedly I'm unsure when it had it, but given that supposedly the Soviets rarely changed the screws on existing hulls it's possible it had it during 1984. If the game ever adds proper diesel-electric mechanics then we could just add the various holes in the water the Soviets made. :v Also, if or when it's possible to add 3D models, other novelties that could be added would be the Papa class (ancestor to the Alfa, and still the fastest submarine ever built) in the 1968 campaign, and the Mike class (a combat capable technology testbed; kind of a proto-Akula?) in 1984.

great link, had an interesting time reading it and I didn't know that the tandem screws weren't contra-rotating.

I agree with you that Victor II is probably the Soviet equivalent to the USS Jack, which trialed contra-roatating screws for the USN (somewhat unsuccessfully due to the weight of her direct drive sapping most of the efficiency, but she did keep the setup for her whole service life).

Papa would have JUST been launched in December of 68 and had a hell of a test process to go through (didn't commission until December 69). The Papa and the Alfa after it were way more anti-carrier platforms than anything else but I don't think there was a torpedo in existence that could catch the Papa in that time period.

Mike, being titanium is sort of a different ball of wax than the Akula and sort of like an Alfa successor in terms of automation and design concepts. Out of all the titanium boats the Mike was the first one that was really stressed for deep diving, and while I don't think she had any problems there, its my understanding the conclusion that was reached was that there wasn't as much value as you would think to diving that deep. I mean it likely could escape some / most / all-non nuclear weapons of the day but it wasn't any more stealthy (hit 3000ft. and then disappear) so basically not worth the trouble vs. how hard it was to construct a boat that could dive that deep.

[JhonSilver]

Let's take a look to the well known picture from Polmar.
it's propaganda.

671rtm MUCH less noisy, a little more than 688.

971 Akula was less noisy then 688 Fl.0

And Skipjack noiselevel was about 150dB
according to Tom Stefanick data 1987

-----------
Consider that Americans tend to overstate the secret characteristics and the Russians on the contrary are understated.

[FPSchazly]

Ships don't emit constant levels of sound across their speeds, though, so what does "a Skipjack makes 150 dB of noise" really mean? It's a very simplified graphic, and as the axes don't have units, should be interpreted as such. A graphic like this can't show that diesels are quieter at low speeds but louder at high speeds than a nuke boat.

[ForumsTerrorist]

great link, had an interesting time reading it and I didn't know that the tandem screws weren't contra-rotating.

I agree with you that Victor II is probably the Soviet equivalent to the USS Jack, which trialed contra-roatating screws for the USN (somewhat unsuccessfully due to the weight of her direct drive sapping most of the efficiency, but she did keep the setup for her whole service life).

Papa would have JUST been launched in December of 68 and had a hell of a test process to go through (didn't commission until December 69). The Papa and the Alfa after it were way more anti-carrier platforms than anything else but I don't think there was a torpedo in existence that could catch the Papa in that time period.

Mike, being titanium is sort of a different ball of wax than the Akula and sort of like an Alfa successor in terms of automation and design concepts. Out of all the titanium boats the Mike was the first one that was really stressed for deep diving, and while I don't think she had any problems there, its my understanding the conclusion that was reached was that there wasn't as much value as you would think to diving that deep. I mean it likely could escape some / most / all-non nuclear weapons of the day but it wasn't any more stealthy (hit 3000ft. and then disappear) so basically not worth the trouble vs. how hard it was to construct a boat that could dive that deep.

The Mike's basically where you see the transition between the Sierra and the Akula, it's worth including for the novelty alone I think. Fair point on the Papa though, I didn't catch that it just misses the bus on 1968. Maybe 1984, a la RSR? :v

Somewhat related: while looking for what sonar the Mike had (Shark Gill, same as the other attack boats of that era), I found this: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvpk.name%2Fnews%2F109348_est_li_v_r ossii_sovremennoe_gidroakusticheskoe_vooruzhenie.h tml Supposedly, it's the Russian perspective on the effectiveness of their sonars and the acoustic performance of American submarines. Given the Russian interest in selling submarines, take it with a grain of salt, but still interesting.

[aaken]

In version 1.02 of the mod I have adjusted the noise levels of all units (subs and surface units) based on the noise level settings used in Dangerous Waters Lwami mod.

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[Aktungbby]

ForumsTerrorist!:Kaleun_Salute:

[denis_469]

...and the Mike class (a combat capable technology testbed; kind of a proto-Akula?) in 1984.

Mike was not testbed for Akula class. It is first very deep diving submarine. After would be start more submarines, but USSR collapse and more submarines not building. It is submarine project 685. Main feature is very very big deep diving. Operational depth is 1027 meters or 3369 feet, safe depth is 1250 meters or 4101 feet and crush depth 1400 meters or 4593 feet. Mike was titanian submarine with very large depth for torpedo firing is 800 meters or 2624 feet. But in it depth can use USET-80 torpedoes. Depth USET-80 torpedoes was projected for launch from very depth submarine like "K-278" project 685. Project operational depth for submarine was 1000 meters and USET-80 have depth 1000 meters like.
During building "K-278" was testing in depth 1600 meters. Every compatment testing in this depth and after it submarine building.
In depth 800 meters and more submarine can not finding anti-submarine sensors so was below few thermal layers. In this depth was not cavitation or other hydrodynamic sounds. Submarine can have full speed without rise sound level.
Have superstels speed so have 2 electric motors and can speed 5 knots in electric motors in very large depth.
During 1980 years in world was not anti-submarine weapons what can hit "K-278" in open ocean. Soviet torpedo "USET-80" was deep diving in world and have 1000 meters.
It was ideal submarine in this time...

[Kapitan]

Mike was not testbed for Akula class. It is first very deep diving submarine. After would be start more submarines, but USSR collapse and more submarines not building. It is submarine project 685. Main feature is very very big deep diving. Operational depth is 1027 meters or 3369 feet, safe depth is 1250 meters or 4101 feet and crush depth 1400 meters or 4593 feet. Mike was titanian submarine with very large depth for torpedo firing is 800 meters or 2624 feet. But in it depth can use USET-80 torpedoes. Depth USET-80 torpedoes was projected for launch from very depth submarine like "K-278" project 685. Project operational depth for submarine was 1000 meters and USET-80 have depth 1000 meters like.
During building "K-278" was testing in depth 1600 meters. Every compatment testing in this depth and after it submarine building.
In depth 800 meters and more submarine can not finding anti-submarine sensors so was below few thermal layers. In this depth was not cavitation or other hydrodynamic sounds. Submarine can have full speed without rise sound level.
Have superstels speed so have 2 electric motors and can speed 5 knots in electric motors in very large depth.
During 1980 years in world was not anti-submarine weapons what can hit "K-278" in open ocean. Soviet torpedo "USET-80" was deep diving in world and have 1000 meters.
It was ideal submarine in this time...


Seconded the Mike is no prototype it is a completely stand alone class of vessel like the Project 661 Anchar or Papa class (which is pretty much a titanium hulled Charlie class in looks)

Project 685 Plavnik Mike class still holds the world record for deepest diving military submarine

as for linar succession the Project 671 RTK or Victor III were Succeeded by the Akula Project 971

As for the deeper you go sound still travels like the jet stream there is a thermal layer called the deep sound channel which was discovered by Dr Robert Ballard from Woodshole Oceanographic reasearch Laboratory.

[denis_469]

Seconded the Mike is no prototype it is a completely stand alone class of vessel like the Project 661 Anchar or Papa class (which is pretty much a titanium hulled Charlie class in looks)

Project 685 Plavnik Mike class still holds the world record for deepest diving military submarine

as for linar succession the Project 671 RTK or Victor III were Succeeded by the Akula Project 971

As for the deeper you go sound still travels like the jet stream there is a thermal layer called the deep sound channel which was discovered by Dr Robert Ballard from Woodshole Oceanographic reasearch Laboratory.

Mike submarine (or project 685) was first very deep diving submarine with more then 1000 meters. After it must be go project 954 with diving depth 1400 meters (operational), but USSR collapse and no one submarine project 954 was not building.

In large depth have few thermal layers and few sound channels. But USA not know about so have not submarine with large depth diving.

[Kapitan]

The deep sound channel was a test conducted of the west coast of Australia where a series of charges were let off in a certain sequence they rounded the Cape horn and were detected 6 hours later in the Bermuda listening station by SOSUS.

SOSUS led to the finding of USS Scorpion it also led the USN and CIA to K129 in the pacific with Project Jennifer and Azorian, SOSUS also tracked the 4 foxtrot submarines heading to Cuba in 1962 plus the two other November class submarines sent from the Med, and this is all from sea floor microphones.

However in Operation Atrina in the 80's the Americans did have serious issues finding the 5 victor III sent out from the Northern Flota 4 were found after 8 days while they were on thier way home after completing thier tasks.

The 5th under the command of captain 1st rank Victor Alikov (dubbed by the west as the prince of darkness) was never discovered

[aaken]

Mod updated to ver 1.03

- Reduced height of ownship icon on Condition display. Now bottom of ownship indicates depth of your boat
- Fixed problem with Charlie 1 and Charlie 2 damage control panels not showing
- Added missions to locate and sink Carrier group in both 1984 and 1968 campaigns

link at first page of thread

[ForumsTerrorist]

So after getting ripped apart by ASROC delivered Mark 46s for the 5th or so time, I took a peep in the weapons.txt since it felt like my usual torpedo dodging tactics weren't working. There's only one, and it has a seeker range of 2000 yards. This seems a little generous for 1984 (http://www.navysite.de/weapons/mk-46.htm has the Mod 5 at 1600 yards seeker range) but it's crazy for the 68 campaign (the Mod 1 that would have seen duty in 68 has a seeker range of 460 meters, or ~503 yards according to http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH14%20-%20Mk%2046.html).

Take those sources with the usual grain of salt, but 500 yards feels much more in line with general torpedo seeker capabilities in the 1960s.

[aaken]

So after getting ripped apart by ASROC delivered Mark 46s for the 5th or so time, I took a peep in the weapons.txt since it felt like my usual torpedo dodging tactics weren't working. There's only one, and it has a seeker range of 2000 yards. This seems a little generous for 1984 (http://www.navysite.de/weapons/mk-46.htm has the Mod 5 at 1600 yards seeker range) but it's crazy for the 68 campaign (the Mod 1 that would have seen duty in 68 has a seeker range of 460 meters, or ~503 yards according to http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH14%20-%20Mk%2046.html).

Take those sources with the usual grain of salt, but 500 yards feels much more in line with general torpedo seeker capabilities in the 1960s.

Thanks, will update to day (I hope)

[aaken]

ver 1.03a hotfix

- created distinct models for early ASROC, firing Mk46 mod1 torpedoes and late ASROC, firing Mk46 mod5 torpedoes
- early ASROC associated to Farragut, Garcia and Charles F. Adams class destroyers, late ASROC associated to Spruance and Knox class escorts
- created late Essex class ASW carrier model for 1984 campaign, identical to Essex class ASW carrier but equipped with SH-60 helicopters instead of SH-3D
- adjusted warhead weight of light weight torpedoes.It will require more hits from Mk46, Mk50 and UGMT-1 to kill a submarine. Adjusted warhead weight of Soviet torpedoes and missiles

[JhonSilver]

so what does "a Skipjack makes 150 dB of noise" really mean?
http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=79609&download=1

According to this American chart 1987, the noise level of Skipjack was in the range of 150-172 dB.
Permit is from 137 dB.
- 133 db. (Later reduced to 129 dB)

Old diesel subs (613, 641) from 127 dB (138 full speed). Kilo - 115 dB.
Sierra - 115 dB.
Alfa full speed - 165 dB (so on 5 knot must 129 db, surprize)

In general, it is clear that the developers adhered to this data, but apparently the skipjack came out completely unplayable

------
sorry bad english

[aaken]

http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=79609&download=1

According to this American chart 1987, the noise level of Skipjack was in the range of 150-172 dB.
Permit is from 137 dB.
- 133 db. (Later reduced to 129 dB)

Old diesel subs (613, 641) from 127 dB (138 full speed). Kilo - 115 dB.
Sierra - 115 dB.
Alfa full speed - 165 dB (so on 5 knot must 129 db, surprize)

In general, it is clear that the developers adhered to this data, but apparently the skipjack came out completely unplayable

------
sorry bad english

And to be honest the estimates of self noise tend to have relatively high spread between different sources.
I don't know at what speeds the 1987 chart indicates the self noise. Other published work, especially on SSBN tend to predict much lower noise. For example Yankee in 1987 chart is predicted 150 db at speed unknown. Paper below predicts 135-140 at 4kts.
On older boats difference in prediction seems larger. Hotel for example in 1987 chart is predicted 160-170 db, paper below predicts 140-145 at 4 kts.
https://fas.org/spp/eprint/snf03221.htm

[JhonSilver]

to be honest the estimates of self noise tend to have relatively high spread between different sources.
I don't know at what speeds the 1987 chart indicates the self noise. Absolute values have no differences for game purpose.
We need to display the relative noise in the game conventions more correctly

This diagram of topics is interesting because it correlates both American and Soviet boats.
Whereas in different studies data are usually given either for some or the other, while it is not known in what specific conditions.

[aaken]

Absolute values have no differences for game purpose.
We need to display the relative noise in the game conventions more correctly

This diagram of topics is interesting because it correlates both American and Soviet boats.
Whereas in different studies data are usually given either for some or the other, while it is not known in what specific conditions.
If you are familiar with dangerous waters, I took a look at the units database, specifically the Lwami mod database (since it had more units compared to original dangerous waters and had become widely used). I based the reworked self noise values in the soviet campaign mod on this.
In particular, the DW selfnoise value multiplied by 2 should pretty much correspond to CW selfnoise. What is different is that in DW each unit can have a noise increase/speed, whereas in CW all enemy units have same noise increase/speed.

[Doctor Haider]

Alfa full speed - 165 dB (so on 5 knot must 129 db, surprize)



How did you make such correlation from the chart? Do you substract speed from the max noise level? 165-41+5=129? And so does the game?

[aaken]

I think the 1 db per knot is the parameter called targetnoiseperknot un config file

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[Doctor Haider]

I think the 1 db per knot is the parameter called targetnoiseperknot un config file

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Understood. Thanks. In real life the speed/noise correlation is pretty unlinear I think and it's individual for each sub.

[Doctor Haider]

Alfa full speed - 165 dB (so on 5 knot must 129 db, surprize)


It's very compact submarine with single reactor suite. It should be relatively quiet on creep electric motors.

[aaken]

Understood. Thanks. In real life the speed/noise correlation is pretty unlinear I think and it's individual for each sub.
As a matter of fact it is. In Dangerous Waters that was simulated. It would be a nice addition to CW even just to linearize it but make it a vessel class parameter rather than a global parameter

[aaken]

Even better would be to make it piecewise linear in specific speed ranges, f.ex. 0,5 db/knot from 0 to 5 knots for submarines with electric creep motors and 1db/knot from 6 knots to full speed

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[cookiemonste]

Is it just me or am I the only one who finds the campaign impossible to play?
The torpedos never hit and you are blind and deaf.

[ChaosphereIX]

I am right there with you

only playable with an Alfa that can outrun torps as you charge into the centre of battle, any other class just gets demolished

I think the sensors are all out of whack, the surface vessels seem clairvoyant and helos psychic.

I should not be detected this easily driving at 5 knots, but it seems as if I am driving at full speed.

[aaken]

I am merging the campaign mod with russian playable submarines mod. To test the mod yesterday i played the 1968 campaign in a november. Interceped a convoy in the faroer islands region. Sea was rough and it was raining, plus sea floor was only 330 ft. With passive sonar i had huge difficulties tracking the convoy and could make out the escorts at 10km. Depending on the sub you choose it will be more or less difficult. Take into account that in merged mod I tried not to tweak too much the noise and sensors values. For example november noise level is 160db with passive sonar sensitivity at 30db whereas in mod version 1.03a (latest downladable ) the adjusted values are 145db and 30db. For Alfa I propose a noise value of 140db (against a vanilla value of 152db) with passive sonar sensitivity of 35. Victor 3 by comparison i proposed 132 db (vanilla value 137) with passive sonar sensitivity 39 and 44 for towed array. Los Angeles vanilla has 115db noise with 40db sensitivity on passive and 48 on towed

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[aaken]

Just to make matters clearer, Alfa in campaign mod is roughly as noisy as a skipjack or a permit68, with appoximately same sensors. A victor 3 roughly as noisy as sturgeon but with worse towed array (4db less taking the vanilla sturgeon).

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[cookiemonste]

I can't track anything with the Alfas passive or active, the Victor is alright, the I and III but they feel weaker as the american sensors.
If I go full speed in the Alfa I can't hear anything, even with active.
And I can't do anything with these torpedos.
They hear them, avoid them and they never aquire the target.

[aaken]

Hello again, concerning sonar, Alfa has squid arm sensor, Victor I and II have shark teeth sensor. They have same sensitivity for passive and active. If they work on Victor I they will work same on Alfa. Plus in campaign mod version 1.03a (latest) Alfa is as noisy as Victor II. As I said earlier, I'm working to merge the campaign mod with russian playable mod. There I'm adding a few more torps like 53-65M (wake homing, but in game I'm modeling as passive only although with higher sensitivity than set65) and 65-73 heavy torpedo.
Just finished a mission in 1968 with a Victor I where I intercepted a convoy bound for Trondheim. Killed both escorts with set65 and killed 3 merchants with other torpedoes. Many torpedoes missed (set65 sensor has 800 meters range, so you have to shoot accurately, with a TMA confidence over 70% if you want to make every shot count). Also consider that set-65 has not great range (17000 meters more or less). Much better test-71 with 27000 meters range.
All in all, I suppose soviet submarines are much more challeging as they are modeled with inferior sensors and more noise (especially earlier classes), but they are not impossible.
By the way, to make things a bit easier, in merged release I've increased the minimum distance at which ships and planes will spawn. This way I'm reasonably sure that you won't be blown out of the water due to helicopter dropping on your head in the first minute of the engagement.
Cheers,
Aaken

[cookiemonste]

I fire only with a 90% tma coverage. But they get picked up every time, even if I am in the baffles of the escort.

[Alesandro]

Well,

checked this Mode today and im sorry that i have too say it in my first post: I delete it after 2 hours. You might ask why ?

Point 1: Even with all quite, 600 feet deep, good layer and distance 15k Yards you get emediately spottet from Perry Frigats

Point 2: US Cargoships can Runout yor Torps ? 9k Distance......

Point 3: Instand lost of Controll after Toprs left the tupe (mulible speeds, directions and deephts testet

Point 4: No clear contact higher 10k Yards ?

Point 5: Only 1 out of 4 Torps hits - even active search didnt help...

So sorry. Maybe I am to bad, but this is no fun to get destroyed every single campaign Mission.

[aaken]

Just to inform that the soviet campaign has been merged with playable russian submarines mod. Further updates of the campaign will be in the playable russian submarines mod (addition of Royal Navy shipping and submarines etc).
The campaigns allow to choose all playable units, included newest generation russian submarines. Also the mod has been balanced especially with respect to noise levels.
Hope you enjoy.

[sencer]

Sorry about giving a negative perspective about your mod but atm there is no way to compete against nato in 68. Even you go to deep with semi decent ambient noise, when you open up your active sonar (since you are russian it is understandable) they spam you with rockets with pinpoint accuracy. I know russian powerplants are not that silent at that time but still even you are at 1000ft deep, they spot you even with a single beep from your sonar. And I am talking about more than 10kyd ranges from your target. I can get that they can launch rockets to some place near but they just launch them to your head. I may understand it in 1984 camp but in 68 this makes it much worse. Also NATO SSBNs have interestingly different torp layouts than attack SSNs. Just why? Washington got better wired control ASW torp than sturgeon/permit/skipjack. IMO original more sub mod is better balanced in terms of combat. I play that mod like for 30+ missions in 84 and 20+ in 68. It was fun and challenging but fair. If you can make it with a better detection mechanisms you can make a really good one.

[aaken]

Yes, it was noticed earlier last week about my error regarding Washington and Ethan Allen SSBNs loadout. Unfortunately couldn't correct it since I'm on vacation (actually will be back tomorrow, vacation over) but will correct it in next playable russian submarines mod release , along with corrected 65-76 torpedo sensor and some other things. I have been playing the 68 campaign on a victor 1. As i wrote in previous posts, it is challenging but definitely not impossibile. For example I interceped an ssbn in the northern approaches in less than 300 ft of water. In subsequent mission i managed to evade an asw group in the same shallow waters before being able to reach deeper zones and make it back to Murmansk to rearm. Take into account that after merge with russian playable submarines mod the noise levels have been rebalanced.

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[suitednate]

im confused. so in order to play this campaign, do I now download and install both the Campaign mod and the Russian playable submarines mod? or just the playable submarines mod?

[wastel]

playable Subs mod is enough.

68 and 84 campaigns for Red and Blue is included

[kilen]

Just to inform that the soviet campaign has been merged with playable russian submarines mod. Further updates of the campaign will be in the playable russian submarines mod (addition of Royal Navy shipping and submarines etc).
The campaigns allow to choose all playable units, included newest generation russian submarines. Also the mod has been balanced especially with respect to noise levels.
Hope you enjoy.

aaah, good to know !
i was just wondering if it was always possible to play them both together since last update of the game as i did before.
thats very sensed u merged with russian subs (y) :)
(i will download that one only then)

++

[naval_noob]

Very Nice! Keep up the good work!

[kilen]

all settings & menus infos reworked are great (!t was necessary since long)
and 6 campaigns now... its just, GORGEOUS ! lol <3

best news ever u mixed both mods together, it looks really good !
its a real reference for CW (about that, may change name of this mod now, and find something more revelant as tittle, since u merged both together... call it maybe "Calypso mod" for exemple ; or anything personalized to mark it clearly... coz ur both mods deserve to be known as a necessary part of the game to install now, i think !).

so glad, i loved already both on previous version of CW, but it wasnt yet optimized as it is now...here, its like playing a full consistent CW2.0, trully ! :D

just some questions more:
- could we have in summary statistics of campaign a line refering all times we have been sank & rescued ?
i would like to have that, on long term campaigns its usefull and a major info of own performances, etc (as i play "full realism challenges" in campaigns, i would like to see that on personnal stats ; FRC = without allow me to restart last mission if dead of captured, then need to restart from start the campaign if its the case, etc)
so, do u thnk its possible to add for next version of ur mod ?
(or maybe convince devs to add with in vanilla datas ofc)

- and last, BIG question & missing actually:
will there be MP games later ?
is it doable on CW base...? i dream to be able to play vs humans in many offensive/defensive scenarios (always driving subs only, but escorting fleets vs others human players, etc, etc), it could be awesome ! :D
but i am not really sure its realist to wait that, such the game has been thought for SP till here...
what u think about ?

thx again for both mods, its trully a F*CKING nice work ! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: :Kaleun_Salute:

[BigRed92]

select red then a sub but it doesn't give me any actual mission, just cast off and all the icons but my sub freeze

[Arianus]

Same problem here. I chose the sub, get no mission nor access to weaponary and gameplan fronze.

[harlikwin]

I'm having the same problem with this mod and the soviet sub mod.

Install the mods (override directory, next to "default" directory)

Game starts, I can pick a sub, but upon start there is no "mission" and on the strategic map my sub can move, but everything else (aircraft/fleets) are frozen.

What am I doing wrong?

This is for a steam install.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Cold Waters\ColdWaters_Data\StreamingAssets\ where default lives and I copy override.

[Al3ksandr1944]

I have the same problem

[Michaa]

Hallo zusammen,

sadly if i start a campaign (68 or 84) i receive no mission and the game instantly freezes. Does anybody know how to fix this?

:Kaleun_Salute: