[WIP] Lighthouses mod [Archive] - Page 3 - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

gap

08-09-17, 05:03 PM

Yes, I know this. In the foam_particles generator, MaxParticles=40, life for each particle is 2s, and rate of creation is 10/s, so there is a maximum of 20 particles ...

Yep, you are right: it can't be that. It is possible that when generator's height is under the lower limit set in GenHeightControl, the generator is stopped and all its particles deleted instantly, thus causing splashes to disappear abruptly. BTW: shouldn't Runmode set to 'Stop'? :hmmm:

Talking about GenHeightControl, I forgot to mention that the idea of asscoaiting it with the FloatingObject controller to trigger the splash effect, is brilliant! Is it your, or you borrowed it from somewhere else? :up:

Yes ok, if it's still working.

Sure it is. On my HD, all of your particle genertors and materials are stored in the custom FX library file I had created for light effects. I wanted to create yet another library file to be used only for materials, but it didn't work. Apparently particle materials can only be stored either in Materials.dat, or in the same file as the particle generator(s) calling for them.

@ Anvar : :o :o The foam particles have a different texture from the one I added ... !

I think I should change its name in Materials.dat.

You will render a huge service to modders if you specify what you changed in Materials.dat and particles.dat.

That is what I was talking about. Tweaking those files and looking for compatibility with every single mod/megamod also changing them, is a mess. Please download my files below to fix this kind of issues once and for all :up:

The one with a bitmap particle item attached creates the visual effect. The other one creates one "object" which has a sound attached. Long time ago, I tried to create a particles generator with both bitmap and object items, and it didn't work properly, IIRC.

Okay, so the generator with the sound attached to it has no visual effect?

Really, no details can escape from you ! :haha:

http://anton-gabriel.at/forum/images/avatars/189197779843694dfe75b6a.gif :D

This node was part of an attempt to create a unique generator throwing several particles generators all around the beacon, but it didn't work.

Yes, I think that keeping them separate is a better idea, as they can be triggered independently from each other on different areas of the model. There is the other side of the coinn though: placing them all around bigger and irregular models, as the rock of La Vieille, will be a pita :doh::haha:

You can ignore/delete it. Same remark for both nodes called "$mat_int_halo_2".

well, that's weird: if I delete it, all the bitmap particles become opaque, and I can only see whitish squares where there used to be water sprays. Can you please have a look in the issue?

Yes, the direction of the foam is in the other direction of the wave, because (in my mind) the water crashes on the beacon, splashes in the air and returns in the other direction with foam.

Okay, I will give your configuration a second try, but as I said before, during my first tests I had the feeling that if a wave was coming from south, tsplashes appeared on the north side of the lighthouse base, and vice versa

Do you have a screenshot ? :D

I don't, but I have uploaded my tweaked files:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 2 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/cocv97k8t5375f5/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%202.7z)

Instructions: remove Particles.dat, Materials.dat and Materials.dsd from Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 1, enable it over Tourelle de La Plate v12 and then enable Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 2 on top of the two previous mods.

I fear it won't be possible.

Why not? Life Variation, Creation Rate Variation, Size Variation, Velocity Variation, Weight Variation, Opacity Variation, Spin Variation, RandomMotion
and Wind Coefficients are there for a reason. Many of the cool SH5 effects were created using more or less the same controllers and textures as SHIII, but making the best of the rendom features which are seldomly used in SHIII.

In the generator with the bitmap item attached, you can add as many items (with different materials linked, and different settings) as you want.

:up:

But I do not have the "Lighthouse" symbol on the map.

I want to deal with the problem now, whatever happens to the final version "Lighthouses mod".

The symbol gets visible on map at higher zoom levels than the lighthouse name :yep:

The problem was "GWX terrain +Sein" mod!

Okay, you have probably installed a buggy version of those files. There should be a working version of them somewhere in this thread, but I didn't include them in v12 as Kendras wasn't fully satisfied with them. We will keep working on terrain modifications when we will finish with the La Plate tower. Sorry for the inconvenience :salute:

gap

08-09-17, 08:01 PM

Guys can you please test this:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 3 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/2xtjt61qh2pu15z/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%203.7z)

Enable it on top of alpha v12, v12 patch 1 (making sure that you have removed Materials.dat, Particles.dat and Particles.dsd from it) and v12 patch 2 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/cocv97k8t5375f5/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%202.7z). I have enabled DX2/3 compression and alpha blending of the water spray material. The latter setting finally enabled me to get rid of the apparently unused fast particle generator (which might have messed with the other particle generators though). Last, I have rearranged the indices of the remaining particle generators.

Tested at a wind speed of 10 and 15 m/s, after the above changes the splash animation seems to me much more smooth. The stuttering still happens at times, but it is not as apparent and frequent as before. Let me know if it works for me as it does for me :salute:

Anvar1061

08-10-17, 02:13 AM

http://s6.uploads.ru/i/qrmzA.jpg
I get these streams of water.
Where can I download Materials.dat, particle.dat, particle.dsd And correct «GWX terrain +Sein»?

gap

08-10-17, 03:44 AM

I get these streams of water.
Where can I download Materials.dat, particle.dat, particle.dsd And correct «GWX terrain +Sein»?

Have you followed the instructions in my last post of yesterday? You probably don't, otherwise you woulndn't get those water columns. I repeat:

1. Enable the Tourelle de la Plate mod v12..
2. Remove Materials.dat, Particles.dat and Particles.dsd from Patch 1 (those files are not needed anymore by the mod), and enable it.
3. Enable Patch 2
4. Enable Patch 3

Links to Patch 2 and 3 are found in my last post of yesterday.
Scrap terrain modifications: for the monent you dont need them. :)

Anvar1061

08-10-17, 04:15 AM

Have you followed the instructions in my last post of yesterday?

Oh sure! But now I have only my Materials.dat, Particles.dat и Particles.dsd.

gap

08-10-17, 05:09 AM

Oh sure! But now I have only my Materials.dat, Particles.dat и Particles.dsd.

That's correct, those files are no longer needed; wave splash particles and matetials used by this mod are now stored in Lighthouse_FX.dat, but if you have correctly installed patch 2 and patch 3, splashes shouldn't look as in the picture you have linked in you previous post

gap

08-10-17, 05:19 AM

@ Kendras ;-)

https://youtu.be/FRu4Mk9KfUk

Kendras

08-10-17, 08:03 AM

BTW: shouldn't Runmode set to 'Stop'?

No. The generator is not 'reactivated' when the height is again above 1,8 (18 meters above sea floor).

Talking about GenHeightControl, I forgot to mention that the idea of asscoaiting it with the FloatingObject controller to trigger the splash effect, is brilliant! Is it your, or you borrowed it from somewhere else? :up:

My own idea. :smug:

Sure it is. On my HD, all of your particle genertors and materials are stored in the custom FX library file I had created for light effects. I wanted to create yet another library file to be used only for materials, but it didn't work. Apparently particle materials can only be stored either in Materials.dat, or in the same file as the particle generator(s) calling for them.

:up:

Okay, so the generator with the sound attached to it has no visual effect?

It shouldn't, even if I tried to attach a blue star (to see what happens), but for a reason that I have not discovered yet, it doesn't show it. :hmph:

during my first tests I had the feeling that if a wave was coming from south, splashes appeared on the north side of the lighthouse base, and vice versa

No, this was just an illusion. If the wave crashes south, the foam appears south.

Guys can you please test this:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 3 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/2xtjt61qh2pu15z/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%203.7z)

Tested at a wind speed of 10 and 15 m/s, after the above changes the splash animation seems to me much more smooth. The stuttering still happens at times, but it is not as apparent and frequent as before. Let me know if it works for me as it does for me

Very nice texture indeed ! :up:

Works very well, even if the 'stuttering' is still there.

http://i.imgur.com/xL0cqtY.png

@ Kendras ;-)

https://youtu.be/FRu4Mk9KfUk

Oh, very cool sound to relax and sleep ! :lol:

Uh, you want to add it underwater when waves crash on the rocks, right ? :O:

gap

08-10-17, 10:39 AM

No. The generator is not 'reactivated' when the height is again above 1,8 (18 meters above sea floor).

18 meters above sea floor (that would be 1m a.s.l in the Pointe du Raz area), or 1.8m a.s.l? :hmm2:

I am asking because I would like to create a second, smaller splash effect to be triggered by lower waves...

My own idea. :smug:

Hats off to you Sir http://www.proxywhore.com/invboard/uploads/emoticons/tippy.gif

It shouldn't, even if I tried to attach a blue star (to see what happens), but for a reason that I have not discovered yet, it doesn't show it. :hmph:

I noticed the same. It seems that only the particle generator with lower index is rendered in game.

No, this was just an illusion. If the wave crashes south, the foam appears south.

Okay :up:

Very nice texture indeed ! :up:

Works very well, even if the 'stuttering' is still there.

Okay, I am a afraid we will get to live with the stuttering. Something I have noticed is that every time test mission is loaded, sea conditions are slightly diffrent, and the stuttering gets better or worse depending on them.

On the other hand can you please test the patch below (It replaces patch 3) and tell me how it scores in therms of eye-candy? :DL

Oh, very cool sound to relax and sleep ! :lol:

:rotfl2:

Uh, you want to add it underwater when waves crash on the rocks, right ? :O:

You read in my mind: it should replace the main splash sound underwater in free camera view, and inside the boat :03:

Kendras

08-11-17, 05:50 AM

18 meters above sea floor (that would be 1m a.s.l in the Pointe du Raz area), or 1.8m a.s.l? :hmm2:

I am asking because I would like to create a second, smaller splash effect to be triggered by lower waves...

To be sure, try to replace 1,8 by 1,6. If it is 16 meters, then the effect will always be visible, even with windspeed at 5 m/s. If it is 1,6 meters, then the effect will be more or less the same. :03:

On the other hand can you please test the patch below (It replaces patch 3) and tell me how it scores in therms of eye-candy? :DL

Mmh, i don't see any link. What did you change ?

gap

08-11-17, 07:05 AM

To be sure, try to replace 1,8 by 1,6. If it is 16 meters, then the effect will always be visible, even with windspeed at 5 m/s. If it is 1,6 meters, then the effect will be more or less the same. :03:

I already made some tests: GenHeightControl is relative to the soil/seabed level. That means that we will need several copies of the effect, each with different Min/Max settings, depending on the sea depth at the location that different lighthouses will be placed at. :yep:

Mmh, i don't see any link. What did you change ?

Sorry, my bad

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1fpa9bo03doyyn2/Tourelle_de_La_Plate_v12_-_Patch_4.7z

Randomized a bit the effect, and made it to be affected by wind force/direction :03:
I am currently working at another version of the effect having two splash particles: shorter splashes for waves higher than 1m asl, and higher ones for waves higher than 2m asl. It looks cool so far, I will post it later :up:

MLF

08-11-17, 01:54 PM

Kendras

08-11-17, 03:35 PM

lighthouse text labels are much more smooth now, yet I can see some unwanted effects too: they are visible at lower zoom levels, meaning that the map will look a bit messy when there will be many lighthouses around the coasts

A bit messy, yes :O: :

http://i.imgur.com/lOqdWQu.png

A question: do enemy units still attack our lighthouse set as naval bases?

Tested : yes, they do.

----

Back to the 'stuttering' problem. I knew it ! The problem comes from the second particle generator (the one with the object item attached to). If you delete it, my foam effect is perfectly smooth. So, we might find a solution by changing time parameters in this generator (although I have very few hope), or another solution would be to add this sound generator independently from the foam generator, with an own genheight controller, and even an own floatingobject controller if needed.

Okay, I am a afraid we will get to live with the stuttering.

I don't want to. Visual effect is more important for me than sound effect.

Just had a chance to have a look at V12 Patched to 4 - what magic:Kaleun_Applaud:.

I'm glad that you like it ! :)

gap

08-11-17, 04:16 PM

Just had a chance to have a look at V12 Patched to 4 - what magic:Kaleun_Applaud:. The stuttering of the waves appear to be a switch-on , switch off and then resume where it left off - the waves splash, rise up, switch off, switch on with the splash still high and splash subsides. Is that how you see it? I have tried to keep up, but real life took over so excuse if I'm out of touch. Anything you need tested with screenshots?

Back to the 'stuttering' problem. I knew it ! The problem comes from the second particle generator (the one with the object item attached to). If you delete it, my foam effect is perfectly smooth. So, we might find a solution by changing time parameters in this generator (although I have very few hope), or another solution would be to add this sound generator independently from the foam generator, with an own genheight controller, and even an own floatingobject controller if needed.

Since the object particle that the sound is linked to is not supposed to be visual, we might try placing it in the same ParticleGenerator as the visual bitmap particle, as an array item. :hmmm:

I have also noticed that increasing the max number of particles makes the effect somehow smoother. My suspect is that the total count of particles spawned must be multiplied by the number of times the particle generator is linked to the object (8 times in our case). Anyway, here are two more versions of the effect:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 5 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/m4tbuc4jincjjvj/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%205.7z)

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 6 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/p3pp71lnmadfb46/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%206.7z)

Both versions: max number of particles increased from 40 to 400 and two splash effects used: one for waves higher than 1 m and another effect for waves higher than 2 m.

Patch 5: the lower particle effect uses the same waterspray bitmap particle as the high one, but squeezed vertically to look shorter.

Patch 6: the lower particle effect use a new bitmap particle.

Patch 3 to 6 are alternative to each other and shouldn't be enabled together.

Kendras

08-11-17, 04:56 PM

Since the object particle that the sound is linked to is not supposed to be visual, we might try placing it in the same ParticleGenerator as the visual bitmap particle, as an array item. :hmmm:

I have also noticed that increasing the max number of particles makes the effect somehow smoother. My suspect is that the total count of particles spawned must be multiplied by the number of times the particle generator is linked to the object (8 times in our case).

You are not searching in the right direction. :O:

Here, it works very well :

http://i.imgur.com/FMDBz7t.png

MLF

08-11-17, 05:04 PM

gap

08-11-17, 05:34 PM

You are not searching in the right direction. :O:

Here, it works very well :

Like this? :03:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 7 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/paglm47bcucjc73/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%207.7z)

IMO patch 5 is better - reduced stuttering but spray switches off too quickly. Patch 6 the splash is too reduced, you would expect some spray even in calmer weather.

Wait, I am going to post a couple of variants which might address the lack of spray you noticed with patch 6 :up:

What about splash refection - possible? If you look at the lighthouse from above it's weird that the splash is there and then is immediately gone without any aftermath.

Do you mean water reflections (they should be already there) or what else? We are planning to add foam on the surface...

gap

08-11-17, 07:17 PM

IMO patch 5 is better - reduced stuttering but spray switches off too quickly. Patch 6 the splash is too reduced, you would expect some spray even in calmer weather. What about splash refection - possible? If you look at the lighthouse from above it's weird that the splash is there and then is immediately gone without any aftermath.

MLF, can you please test the following:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 8 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/3ld3rk59blj921r/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%208.7z)

Two versions included:

Patch 8a:

- Particles, wave height ≥ 1m: 'shortened' vertical spray particles and horizontal splash particles used in the same quantity

half the quantity of vertical spray particles than used in patch 5 (not used in patch 6)
half the quantity of horizontal splash particles than used in patch 6 (not used in patch 5)

- Particles, wave height ≥ 2m: unchanged

Patch 8b:

- Particles, wave height ≥ 1m:

from no vertical spray particles to half the quantity used in patch 5 (this is random: the higher wave height, the higher the chance that some spray particles will spawn)
same quantity of horizontal splash particles as used in patch 6

- Particles, wave height ≥ 2m: unchanged

I recommend you to test both versions after setting wind speed of the test mission to 15 m/s, and to reload the mission several times (as it seems that sea conditions are slightly diffrent every time a single mission is loaded).

Thanks to Kendras' intuition, the stuttering should be gone for good with no need of giving up the crashing wave sound effect :up:

MLF

08-12-17, 03:59 AM

Hi Gap,

I've tested Patch 7, 8a and 8b.

Patch 7 - (Screenshots 1 & 2) Splash very smooth - no stuttering :salute:. Origin of spray segments are very apparent from above, with straight edges.

patch 8a - (Screenshots 3 & 4)Better spray effect, but edges still apparent when spray reduces/dissolves

Patch 8b - (Screenshots 5 & 6) IMO the best. Spray impressive, and density,height better. No straight edges apparent from above:up:

Would it be be possible to have the spray go higher and be more wind blown after spawning (depending on wind speed). At the moment I feel there is a certain lack of fury in the spray.

If the idea is to add foam then reflections of the spray would not be needed. The more the sensation of wetness in rough stormy weather, the better:03:

I edited the mission to increase wind speed to 15 m/sec, and I also set cloud cover to heavy with no changes. Unless the clouds are blue:roll: there didn't seem to be any change in the sky - have you noticed this?

Regards,

MLF

MLF

08-12-17, 04:52 AM

I have attached a screenshot of Patch 8b in calmer conditions, and the reflection of the spray is apparent:salute:
Funny thing is I edited the mission and added precipitation. It now rains from a clear blue sky - but don't suppose this has anything to do with this work.

regards,

MLF

gap

08-12-17, 09:13 AM

Patch 7 - (Screenshots 1 & 2) Splash very smooth - no stuttering :salute:. Origin of spray segments are very apparent from above, with straight edges.

patch 8a - (Screenshots 3 & 4)Better spray effect, but edges still apparent when spray reduces/dissolves

Patch 8b - (Screenshots 5 & 6) IMO the best. Spray impressive, and density,height better. No straight edges apparent from above:up:

Okay, I will keep working on the effect using v 8b as base then :up:

BTW: when referring to particles, you should specify if you are talking about the short ones that you always see when a splash effect is triggered, or the tall ones that you only see when waves are equal or higher than two meters. :)

Would it be be possible to have the spray go higher and be more wind blown after spawning (depending on wind speed). At the moment I feel there is a certain lack of fury in the spray.

I have already tried making splash/spray particles more affected by the wind than they are now, but the effect was not good because it looked like the whole splash (not only the spray) moved too far away from the lighthouse base. What I can do is making a third particle type, simulating vapourized water, to spawn with a certain delay, and to move further away from the splash following wind's direction. What do you think? Should I add this particle to both particle generators, or only to the one used for the highest waves?

If the idea is to add foam then reflections of the spray would not be needed. The more the sensation of wetness in rough stormy weather, the better:03:

I have attached a screenshot of Patch 8b in calmer conditions, and the reflection of the spray is apparent:salute:

Okay, as you have already noticed water reflections are already there, though they are not always very apparent, especially when sea conditions are very rough. In any case, dynamic foam effect is definitely in our to-do list :yep:

I edited the mission to increase wind speed to 15 m/sec, and I also set cloud cover to heavy with no changes. Unless the clouds are blue:roll: there didn't seem to be any change in the sky - have you noticed this?

Funny thing is I edited the mission and added precipitation. It now rains from a clear blue sky - but don't suppose this has anything to do with this work.

Honetsly I didn't mess too much with other mission parameters than wind speed, but as for many other "fixed" values in game, it is possible that the game code randomizes them :hmm2:

MLF

08-12-17, 11:12 AM

.

I have already tried making splash/spray particles more affected by the wind than they are now, but the effect was not good because it looked like the whole splash (not only the spray) moved too far away from the lighthouse base. What I can do is making a third particle type, simulating vapourized water, to spawn with a certain delay, and to move further away from the splash following wind's direction. What do you think? Should I add this particle to both particle generators, or only to the one used for the highest waves?

At sea, when it is very windy, the tops of the waves are whipped up into spray. I would therefore suggest adding it to the highest waves - it might look a bit messy otherwise. I'm not sure everything follows the wind direction anyway - the waves, for example, come from any direction as far as I can make out:doh:

Honetsly I didn't mess too much with other mission parameters than wind speed, but as for many other "fixed" values in game, it is possible that the game code randomizes them :hmm2:
I'm sure it's nothing to do with this work - I had to disable a few other mods to take screenshots etc, so most likely some tail-end charlie is messing up the clouds - my problem:yep:

regards,

MLF

gap

08-12-17, 12:30 PM

At sea, when it is very windy, the tops of the waves are whipped up into spray. I would therefore suggest adding it to the highest waves - it might look a bit messy otherwise.

Okay, working on it right now. I hope to release a new patch within the next few hours :up:

I'm not sure everything follows the wind direction anyway - the waves, for example, come from any direction as far as I can make out:doh:

Yes, once spawned, particles follow wind direction. Their spawn point around the lighthouse base doesn't follow wave direction though: they are triggered by wave height instead, i.e. they spawn wherever wave crests reach the set level near the lighthouse :yep:

I'm sure it's nothing to do with this work - I had to disable a few other mods to take screenshots etc, so most likely some tail-end charlie is messing up the clouds - my problem:yep:

Yes, I doubt this has anything to do with our mod :salute:

gap

08-12-17, 07:48 PM

Would it be be possible to have the spray go higher and be more wind blown after spawning (depending on wind speed). At the moment I feel there is a certain lack of fury in the spray.

At sea, when it is very windy, the tops of the waves are whipped up into spray. I would therefore suggest adding it to the highest waves - it might look a bit messy otherwise.

HI MLF,
could you please test the following patch?

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 9 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/fi8ur9y83dxobua/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%209.7z)

For this patch, I have added wind-driven spray to the highest waves. The texture used could be better, and there is still some space for improving the effect. Water spray could be done to go higher and/or to move further away from the splash, but unfortunately spray particles are not physical objects, so the ones spawned upwind go through-and-through the lighthouse building. In order to make this visual glitch lesser apparent, I had to limit the movement of sparay particles.
I hope you will like the effect anyway, and I am curious to know what you think about it. Please don't hesitate giving me your criticism and any suggestion you migh have for making the overall effect to look better :salute:

MLF

08-13-17, 04:11 AM

Hi gap,

Do you ever sleep? :o

I have tested patch 9 and the wind-blown spray is very good:yeah:. The screenshots don't do it justice - I shall try to get some better ones. However in the screenshots I was trying to show a couple of other things:-

Wind direction in the mission is 000 ie. it is coming from the north.
The U-boat is heading due south.
The rain is following the direction of the wind (vaguely) - north-east to south-west.
The foam movement on the sea is from north-east to south-west
The spray is going against the wind - South-west to north-east

I believe you have 8 placement nodes for the particle generation? What would be the effect of increasing these nodes, say to 10 or 12? As you can see from the 'above' screenshot the generation is quite apparent (this is being over-critical as who, in the game, tends to look at things from above, apart from pilots, and this is a sub sim:03:)

Regards,

MLF

MLF

08-13-17, 04:51 AM

I've been playing around with the mission editor. I set the wind direction to 180.

The rain now goes from the SSW to NNE.
The wave foam still goes from NE to SW
The spray goes from SW to NE still.

My conclusion is the spray is not affected by the wind direction.

I had the same problem with funnel smoke on ship's.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/search.php?searchid=2132889

I tried to get the smoke to go in a direction from the ship which was a combination of the ships speed/direction and wind speed/direction (apparent wind speed/direction) by changing Local wind and Global wind parameters. Seemed to work for the combination of ship's speed and wind speed, but not direction - ie: if the wind speed was say 25 knots and the ship speed 25 knots in opposite direction smoke went straight up. However when the ship was stopped, the smoke went in the direction set by the local and global wind parameters and not the direction of the wind set in the campaign/mission ie: the rain and smoke were never in the same direction.

Perhaps rain parameters would give a clue as to how things are done? Any idea where that is set - scene.dat, but not sure that parameters there set the rain to follow wind direction.........?

regards,

MLF

MLF

08-13-17, 08:21 AM

Hi Gap,

Sorry, but noticed another strange effect - when the wind blown spray is spawned the light tower goes double vision:doh:

regards,

MLF

gap

08-13-17, 08:42 AM

Hi gap,

Do you ever sleep? :o

At times, when I don't have anything better to do :O:

I have tested patch 9 and the wind-blown spray is very good:yeah:. The screenshots don't do it justice - I shall try to get some better ones.

So you are saying that except for particles not following wind direction and splash FX spawn points being not close enough to each other, the rest is good? :smug:

Wind direction in the mission is 000 ie. it is coming from the north.
The U-boat is heading due south.
The rain is following the direction of the wind (vaguely) - north-east to south-west.
The foam movement on the sea is from north-east to south-west

I've been playing around with the mission editor. I set the wind direction to 180.

The rain now goes from the SSW to NNE.
The wave foam still goes from NE to SW

To the best of my understanding, an heading of 0 corresponds to a South to North direction, and a 180 heading to a N to S direction. That's true in common navigation terminology and in game, as far as units are concerned. Maybe devs got wind hedings wrong? :hmmm:

Perhaps rain parameters would give a clue as to how things are done? Any idea where that is set - scene.dat, but not sure that parameters there set the rain to follow wind direction.........?

I don't see anything related with rain drop direction in scene.dat's rain properties, maybe rain following the wind direction is an hardcoded feature. Anyway in the Env.sim controller I see some Start/End WindHeading parameters which might apply to the issue of wind directions as perceived in game (from rain and waves) being inverted releative to wind headings set in mission editor :hmmm:

My conclusion is the spray is not affected by the wind direction.

Whatever is the convention used by devs, if spary direction didn't change after inverting wind heading, your conclusion must be right :-?

I had the same problem with funnel smoke on ship's....

IIRC, TheDarkWraith managed getting smoke to follow the wind direction in SH5. Let me check the settings he used for achieving that :up:

I believe you have 8 placement nodes for the particle generation? What would be the effect of increasing these nodes, say to 10 or 12?

The particle generators would be closer together, thus creating a better effect, especially if seen from above. :03:
I don't think increasing the number of particle generators placed around the lighthouse would have a big impact on game fluidity, as the generators we have set are not so particle-intensive. Nonetheless, should we notice any performance hit, we can always reduce the number of particles per generator. If we decide to increase the number of PG placement nodes from 8 to 12, A reduction to about 2/3 of the original particles should be okay :up:

As you can see from the 'above' screenshot the generation is quite apparent (this is being over-critical as who, in the game, tends to look at things from above, apart from pilots, and this is a sub sim:03:)

:lol:

No problem: if we can improve the splash FX with no side effects, why not to do it? If on the other hand we will notice any adverse factor, well, we will refrain our virtual pilots from taking aerial pictures of our lighthouses :D

MLF

08-13-17, 10:59 AM

So you are saying that except for particles not following wind direction and splash FX spawn points being not close enough to each other, the rest is good? :smug:

In a very long winded way, yes that's what I am saying.:D It is good and getting better.:salute: Not sure about the double vision problem reported in my last post, though:hmmm:

To the best of my understanding, an heading of 0 corresponds to a South to North direction, and a 180 heading to a N to S direction. That's true in common navigation terminology and in game, as far as units are concerned. Maybe devs got wind hedings wrong? :hmmm:

I don't see anything related with rain drop direction in scene.dat's rain properties, maybe rain following the wind direction is an hardcoded feature. Anyway in the Env.sim controller I see some Start/End WindHeading parameters which might apply to the issue of wind directions as perceived in game (from rain and waves) being inverted releative to wind headings set in mission editor :hmmm:

IMO they used the word heading instead of direction. If the wind direction is from the North it is blowing N to S. If it is from the South then it is blowing south to north. The wind is always stated in the direction it is blowing from - a South Westerly wind is a wind blowing from the SW:yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_direction

Not sure what convention (if any) was followed by the devs.

IIRC, TheDarkWraith managed getting smoke to follow the wind direction in SH5. Let me check the settings he used for achieving that :up:
:up: Hopefully you'll find something that has gone un-noticed before (re my thread and sub threads on Funnel smoke)

The particle generators would be closer together, thus creating a better effect, especially if seen from above. :03:
I don't think increasing the number of particle generators placed around the lighthouse would have a big impact on game fluidity, as the generators we have set are not so particle-intensive. Nonetheless, should we notice any performance hit, we can always reduce the number of particles per generator. If we decide to increase the number of PG placement nodes from 8 to 12, A reduction to about 2/3 of the original particles should be okay :up:

No problem: if we can improve the splash FX with no side effects, why not to do it? If on the other hand we will notice any adverse factor, well, we will refrain our virtual pilots from taking aerial pictures of our lighthouses :D

:up:

Regards,

MLF

gap

08-13-17, 05:57 PM

In a very long winded way, yes that's what I am saying.:D It is good and getting better.:salute:

:up:

I have increased the number of splash-spawn nodes from 8 to 12, and the effect looks pretty nice. Tomorrow I will release a new patch probably :)

Not sure about the double vision problem reported in my last post, though:hmmm:

Sorry, but noticed another strange effect - when the wind blown spray is spawned the light tower goes double vision:doh:

If you mean the sharp edge where the spray particle lays over the tower, that's due to the particle being on a plane which is behind tower's 3D mesh in that point. Maybe we can fix that glitch by playing with the DepthBias parameter. :hmm2:

IMO they used the word heading instead of direction...

That makes perfect sense. Dev's usage of the term 'heading' in place of 'direction', misled me :up:

:up: Hopefully you'll find something that has gone un-noticed before (re my thread and sub threads on Funnel smoke)

I have been doing some research on the forum, and I have read that every attempt to make FX particles affected by real wind in SHIII, has failed so far. The one thing that other modders managed, is having particles to move following a pre-set non-dynamic wind, which is exactly what we currently have in the present mod.

I seem to remember that TheDarkWraith (best known to SHIII players by his old forum name of RacerBoy) managed making SH5 smoke particles to follow real in-game wind. I didn't get time to dig into his files yet, but even if my memory was confirmed, that doesn't necessarily mean that we can achieve the same in our mod: his fix might only work in SH5, or he might have devised a workaround which can't be applied to our mod.

Fingers crossed :salute:

MLF

08-14-17, 03:29 AM

If you mean the sharp edge where the spray particle lays over the tower, that's due to the particle being on a plane which is behind tower's 3D mesh in that point. Maybe we can fix that glitch by playing with the DepthBias parameter. :hmm2:

I played about with DepthBias. It seems to affect the height and frequency of the splashes. If set to a negative number the splashes seem subdued. When positive splashes and spray are regular and high.(see screenshot below with set to 5.0 - don't know why, but seemed a nice number) I think the sharp edge is reduced and only appears on the base IMO. It's quite difficult because, as you pointed out yesterday, each time you run the mission the waves behave differently:roll: but each time I have run with a +ve number for depthBias the splashes are regular and reasonably high. No idea what DepthBias is really meant to do....worse than a crossword puzzle!!!!:doh:

I have been doing some research on the forum, and I have read that every attempt to make FX particles affected by real wind in SHIII, has failed so far. The one thing that other modders managed, is having particles to move following a pre-set non-dynamic wind, which is exactly what we currently have in the present mod.

I seem to remember that TheDarkWraith (best known to SHIII players by his old forum name of RacerBoy) managed making SH5 smoke particles to follow real in-game wind. I didn't get time to dig into his files yet, but even if my memory was confirmed, that doesn't necessarily mean that we can achieve the same in our mod: his fix might only work in SH5, or he might have devised a workaround which can't be applied to our mod.

Fingers crossed :salute:

There was his U-Boat exhaust mod that people thought had the smoke following the wind, but I think this was discounted in one of the threads
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=154338

As you say, fingers crossed :salute:

regards,

MLF

gap

08-14-17, 12:50 PM

I played about with DepthBias. It seems to affect the height and frequency of the splashes. If set to a negative number the splashes seem subdued. When positive splashes and spray are regular and high.(see screenshot below with set to 5.0 - don't know why, but seemed a nice number) I think the sharp edge is reduced and only appears on the base IMO. It's quite difficult because, as you pointed out yesterday, each time you run the mission the waves behave differently:roll: but each time I have run with a +ve number for depthBias the splashes are regular and reasonably high. No idea what DepthBias is really meant to do....worse than a crossword puzzle!!!!:doh:

Depth bias makes two objects that are co-planar in the 3D space to look as if they were one in front of the other by adding a z-bias to one of them. z in this case is not the z (North/South) global axis, but the "depth" axis that the virtual camera is aligned with at any given moment.
The approximate radius of the lighthouse base is 5 meters; your tests demonstrate that the depth bias setting in SH particle generators is in meters and that positive values mean particles closer to the observer :up:

There was his U-Boat exhaust mod that people thought had the smoke following the wind, but I think this was discounted in one of the threads
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=154338

As you say, fingers crossed :salute:

I followed the whole discussion about wind direction and particles in SHIII, but matters in SH5 are slightly different. Particles that are supposed to be affected by real wind in SH5 files, have one or both of the features below:

- a parameterless GlobalWind controller attached to the same node as the particle generator;

- a GlobalWindCoef among particle generator's parameters, whose
description in Silent3ditor and Goblin Editor reads "Global/game wind coefficient (0=not affected by in-game wind)".

Neither of the above features is found in SHIII. I have already tried adding the GlobalWind controller to our splash effect but after running the test mission I couldn't see any difference. What I want to try next, is copying the settings of one of our particle generators into a SH5 particle generator with GlobalWindCoef set to a positive value, and see what happens. Chances of success are quite low though :hmmm:

MLF

08-14-17, 03:06 PM

gap

08-14-17, 04:25 PM

Hi gap,

Is there any way of making the wave-splash sound change with the wind speed/ At 15m/s you cannot hear it, and I'm pretty sure, from my own experience, it would be close to a roar when close to the light house?

regards,

mlf

I think so, but you should help me finding the appropriate SFX.

BTW, this mod is slowly turning into a storm simulation mod lol :O:

MLF

08-14-17, 05:32 PM

BTW, this mod is slowly turning into a storm simulation mod lol :O:

You are right. :yep: I'm sorry. it was just an idea.:hmmm: I'll try and find a solution to my question, but I'm nowhere near as knowledgable in this area as you or Kendras.

I have been playing with the placement Y value to get the splashes visible during lower wind speeds, with 0.5 showing splashes less frequently at 10 m/s than at 15 m/s and very seldom at 5 m/s. I found your setting of 1.5 didn't show much at 10m/s but then that may have been just that time I loaded the mission.

The thread is about lighthouses, and perhaps that's where we should go back to?

There seems to be a lack of input/interest from elsewhere in the community.

regards,

MLF

gap

08-14-17, 06:11 PM

You are right. :yep: I'm sorry. it was just an idea.:hmmm:

I think you misunderstood my answer: I am into whichever suggestion might improve this mod, and I like very much your idea. Please point me to any sound effect that you think might be fit for it :up:

BTW: I have bad news regarding the wind-aligned spray particles. I have replaced our particle generators with one from SH5. It works, but after trying many settings and setting combinations, I couldn't get our particles to follow the in-game wind. I think the additional PG parameters introduced with SH5, are simply ignored by SHIII.

At this point, I guess that our only hope would be an hardcoded patch by our wizards: Stiebler, h.sie and the likes. While we wait for their magic, what should we do with our particles? Should we scrap the fake wind, or keep it? and if so, what wind direction should we set? :hmm2:

I have been playing with the placement Y value to get the splashes visible during lower wind speeds, with 0.5 showing splashes less frequently at 10 m/s than at 15 m/s and very seldom at 5 m/s. I found your setting of 1.5 didn't show much at 10m/s but then that may have been just that time I loaded the mission.

1.5 means 15m above the seabed level. i.e. 2m below the sea level in the point on map that our lighthouse is placed at. Anyway I don't think placement nodes' Y value to be critical, as the library FX node attached to them is set as a floating object and its Y position varies with wave height. The small wave effect is triggered when the floating node has an height of 18 or more metres above the seabed (i.e. wave height equal or bigger than 1m), whereas the bigger splash spawns at an height of 18 above the seabed (wave height = 2m or more) :03:

There seems to be a lack of input/interest from elsewhere in the community. I'll try and find a solution to my question, but I'm nowhere near as knowledgable in this area as you or Kendras - where is he by the way?

Kendras sent me a PM. He is in holidays like many other subsim comrades. I think in a couple of weeks the forum will be a more lively place. By then, the first release version of our lighthouse mod will be out, and hopefully there will be more interest around it :)

gap

08-14-17, 06:44 PM

New patch available:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 10 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/62g72mgoay5lndp/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%2010.7z)

Main changes:

Number of particle FX placement nodes around the lighthouse increased from 8 to 12; number of particles per particle generator unchanged.

Depth bias for all the particle generators set to 5, following MLF suggestion.

Added underwater wave sound to the splash effect. It should be audible inside the submarine too. Curiously, the SFX sounds better inside the sub than it does underwater, in free camera mode :hmmm:

The patch should replace all the previous patches, except v12 patch 1. As usual, I am looking forward to your feed-back :salute:

propbeanie

08-14-17, 08:29 PM

... There seems to be a lack of input/interest from elsewhere in the community...

... and hopefully there will be more interest around it :)
Just so you know, I for at least one, have been following this and a few other SHIII posts with keen interest, but especially this one... We have SH4 FotRSU reverse-engineers at the ready to beg, borrow and plead once you've "finalized" (is a mod ever ~really~ finished?)... This looks very nice. All should be commended. :salute: |;^) - I wish I had a little more time to noodle some in SH3 and help "test" this, but alas, I'm buried - "I’ve got my country’s 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I’m swamped."

P.S.: :subsim:

MLF

08-15-17, 04:24 AM

I think you misunderstood my answer: I am into whichever suggestion might improve this mod, and I like very much your idea. Please point me to any sound effect that you think might be fit for it :up:

:)

BTW I still haven't found the old admiralty chart symbol for lights (pre-metric chart). I had a book, "Bay of Biscay Pilot" but it's been buried somewhere under all my childrens' Uni stuff:roll: Internet is not much help.

BTW: I have bad news regarding the wind-aligned spray particles. I have replaced our particle generators with one from SH5. It works, but after trying many settings and setting combinations, I couldn't get our particles to follow the in-game wind. I think the additional PG parameters introduced with SH5, are simply ignored by SHIII.

At this point, I guess that our only hope would be an hardcoded patch by our wizards: Stiebler, h.sie and the likes. While we wait for their magic, what should we do with our particles? Should we scrap the fake wind, or keep it? and if so, what wind direction should we set? :hmm2:
I think we should keep it:yep:. It may be an illusion, but from my tests I have the impression that when the game wind goes against the fake wind, the effect of the spray isn't as dramatic as when the game wind goes with the fake wind ie. the wind-blown spray goes further when the 2 winds are combined....?:06: Is that possible or is it my imagination? I'll post screenshots later when I test Patch 10 (most likely tonight).

Kendras sent me a PM. He is in holidays like many other subsim comrades. I think in a couple of weeks the forum will be a more lively place. By then, the first release version of our lighthouse mod will be out, and hopefully there will be more interest around it :)

You are right of course :yep:. It's holiday time - I'll be off on mine next Tuesday:|\\ Just had a down moment last night:salute:

Just so you know, I for at least one, have been following this and a few other SHIII posts with keen interest, but especially this one...

Thanks propbeanie:salute:

Regards,

MLF

gap

08-15-17, 05:22 AM

Just so you know, I for at least one, have been following this and a few other SHIII posts with keen interest, but especially this one... We have SH4 FotRSU reverse-engineers at the ready to beg, borrow and plead once you've "finalized" (is a mod ever ~really~ finished?)... This looks very nice. All should be commended. :salute: |;^) - I wish I had a little more time to noodle some in SH3 and help "test" this, but alas, I'm buried - "I’ve got my country’s 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I’m swamped."

P.S.: :subsim:

Thank you for your interest and encouragement propbeanie :up:

As far as I am concerned, but I am pretty sure Kendras has no problem either, starting from now you and the other SHIV 'reverse-engineers' have full permissions granted on this mod. In fact, I wish the best parts of all the mods released so far for either of the SH games to be merged together one nice day, and to be adapted for all the games of the series :) :subsim:

BTW I still haven't found the old admiralty chart symbol for lights (pre-metric chart). I had a book, "Bay of Biscay Pilot" but it's been buried somewhere under all my childrens' Uni stuff:roll: Internet is not much help.

That would be a nice addition! Keep looking for it, please MLF :D

I think we should keep it:yep:. It may be an illusion, but from my tests I have the impression that when the game wind goes against the fake wind, the effect of the spray isn't as dramatic as when the game wind goes with the fake wind ie. the wind-blown spray goes further when the 2 winds are combined....?:06: Is that possible or is it my imagination?

If that was true, IF, we would be just one step away from solving the puzzle. What if we made the Wind X, Y and Z values extremely low, in particle generator's general settings, and we correspondingly increased the WindCoef value of each bitmap particle? :hmmm:

Should this last attempt fail, what would be the best wind direction for the "fixed wind"? A northerly wind maybe?

I'll post screenshots later when I test Patch 10 (most likely tonight).

Let me know your thoughts on it :up:

You are right of course :yep:. It's holiday time - I'll be off on mine next Tuesday:|\\ Just had a down moment last night:salute:

Poetic moment: may the firm and shining light of our lighthouses lead you and your family to the destination of your well deserved holidays, and elighten your way even during your darkest moments lol :O:

Back to work now :03: :salute:

MLF

08-15-17, 05:07 PM

If that was true, IF, we would be just one step away from solving the puzzle. What if we made the Wind X, Y and Z values extremely low, in particle generator's general settings, and we correspondingly increased the WindCoef value of each bitmap particle? :hmmm:

Should this last attempt fail, what would be the best wind direction for the "fixed wind"? A northerly wind maybe?

Haven't tried what you suggested here as I think, having started several missions, it varies so much I have to put it down to imagination.We need another opinion on this one, I think? See Screen shots below (I have my clouds back:))
The hard line was still apparent with DepthBias set to 5, so increased to 6 and no line.
I will continue testing tomorrow as it's been a long day:yawn::zzz:

Poetic moment: may the firm and shining light of our lighthouses lead you and your family to the destination of your well deserved holidays, and elighten your way even during your darkest moments lol :O:

Back to work now :03: :salute:
:) Thank you :salute:

regards,

MLF

MLF

08-16-17, 03:25 AM

Hi gap,

I've PM'd you.

Regards,

MLF

gap

08-16-17, 06:28 AM

Haven't tried what you suggested here as I think, having started several missions, it varies so much I have to put it down to imagination...

I have tried that myself, but it didn't work: the one wind direction that those particles are subject to, is the one set in particle generator's settings

The hard line was still apparent with DepthBias set to 5, so increased to 6 and no line.

Sometimes it works, some other times it doesn't :hmmm:

Hi gap,

I've PM'd you.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/Scale - La Plate.jpgHi Gap,

Thought I'd PM you with my findings on scale.
I took a screen shot of a type VIIC against La Plate. I imported it into MS Visio, and scaled it.
The height from W/L to top of the sub's conning tower is 4.2m
The height of La Plate real-life is 9.5m (Wikipedia)
However the in-game height of La Plate is 26m:hmmm:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fbs61lr4l9akvb1/Scale%20-%20La%20Plate.jpg
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/E:\Screenshots for subsim\V12\Scale - La Plate.jpg

I hope you don't mind me answering your remark in public, but as usual my inbox is nearly full.

I know the Wikipedia article about La Plate, but I think it got its focal plane wrong. My model is base instead on data from The Lighthouse Directory (https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/fns2.htm), where it is stated:

focal plane 19 m (62 ft); nine very quick white flashes every 10 s. 26 m (85 ft) octagonal solid reinforced concrete tower with gallery but no lantern.

Our model's overall heigh is exactly 26m, measured from the bottom of the (semi-)submerged base to the top of the concrete tower, and its height a.s.l is about 19m. This is not considering the metal platform, which has been removed in recent years (the lantern having been subsequently moved to a much lower position than originally meant):

http://media.rtl.fr/online/image/2015/1105/7780382920_la-vieille-le-phare-sur-la-pointe-du-raz-au-large-de-l-le-de-sein.jpg

Model's proportions are base on several picture available on the web. Had I scaled the model based on the focal plane stated by Wikipedia, or had I considered the 19m figure as relative to the original lantern position, railings and ladders would have been too short/narrow. At the current scale, those elements look more or less in proportion with the current standars. :yep:

MLF

08-16-17, 07:25 AM

I have tried that myself, but it didn't work: the one wind direction that those particles are subject to, is the one set in particle generator's settings

:yep: unfortunately.

Sometimes it works, some other times it doesn't :hmmm:
I increased DepthBias to 20 and the effect was terrible. So put back to 6 and reasonably OK. It's very difficult to test and come to a certain conclusion on a base that changes each time the mission is loaded:doh:

Our model's overall heigh is exactly 26m, measured from the bottom of the (semi-)submerged base to the top of the concrete tower, and its height a.s.l is about 19m. This is not considering the metal platform, which has been removed in recent years (the lantern having been subsequently moved to a much lower position than originally meant):

Model's proportions are base on several picture available on the web. Had I scaled the model based on the focal plane stated by Wikipedia, or had I considered the 19m figure as relative to the original lantern position, railings and ladders would have been too short/narrow. At the current scale, those elements look more or less in proportion with the current standars. :yep:

I agree everything looks right with your scaling, and I was very surprised to learn from Wiki and other sites (http://www.jplours.fr/pointeduraz.htm) that it was only 9m high.Obviously missed off a 1 in their numbers:03:
The photographs show that, compared with La Veille at 33m, your 19m would be much more accurate.:yep:
Very confusing though, hence my PM.

regards,

MLF

Kendras

08-16-17, 10:05 AM

I read all your posts during my absence. Good work mates ! :up:

BTW, this mod is slowly turning into a storm simulation mod lol :O:

Hehe, why not ? :D

http://i.imgur.com/MJW3zVC.png

Preparing Patch 11 with full explanations.

New main features :

- improved a bit the medium splash effect
- added a big splash effect (affected by fake wind)
- created a totally new concept to create foam around the rock

Kendras

08-16-17, 11:49 AM

Here V12 with Patch 11 : http://www.mediafire.com/file/zid19af3bbe7n5s/Tourelle_de_La_Plate_v12_-_Patch_11.7z

Please don't care about materials.dat modified directly inside. When we are satisfied with the graphics effects, we will put the modifications in Lighthouse_FX.dat. Else, I have to reload the game after each modification I've made into this file, and it's a huge waste of time and patience ...

The medium and large splash effects' parameters could be a little randomized.

The large splash texture might be improved. Only the large splash is (and should be) affected by wind.

About the new foam effect, we have to replace the experimental texture, but the idea is there ...

About the Depth bias controller, we should always set it at zero, else it's useless (IMO) and there are side effects.

Good tests ! :salute:

Kendras

08-16-17, 12:37 PM

By the way, in order to have sea with huge waves, open data\scene.dat, go to Sky > EnvSim : Wind > WavesProperties > 3 > Scale, and change the values to : 15 - 0.8 - 15 - 1.

:Kaleun_Wink:

MLF

08-16-17, 01:22 PM

Initial tests with sea as set in scene.dat (date 03/02/2008).

The spray doesn't seem to follow the wind:hmmm: see screenshots (u-boat heading south).
Overall effect improving all the time though:up: I really like the way the spray hangs in the air:salute:. Can you make the base of the spray denser, thinning out towards the top - a wave crashing, thrown into the air and caught by the wind, type of thing?:hmmm: All looks nice and wet though!
Like the concept behind the foam but in rough sea wouldn't see ripple effect I wouldn't have thought - wouldn't foam be the result of a crashing wave landing back in the sea?
Will test more later, increasing wave height as suggested but time to eat:yep:

regards,

MLF

MLF

08-16-17, 02:08 PM

:DIncreased wave size as suggested, but no difference as far as initial findings.
I don't see any of the lines that gap and I were trying to eliminate with DepthBias,so you are right, methinks, re this controller.:)
All in all looking really good, but still missing the full fury of a storm IMO

Worst scene scenario:-
http://twistedsifter.com/videos/huge-waves-crashing-against-lighthouses-in-france/ :03:

The sea appears to wrap the lighthouse with a cloak, and reluctantly let it go, leaving behind a mist of regret - how poetic is that?:D Amazing what food does!!!!!

regards,

MLF

Kendras

08-16-17, 02:15 PM

Salut MLF, merci d'avoir testé ce patch ! ;)

The spray doesn't seem to follow the wind:hmmm: see screenshots (u-boat heading south).

The big spray follows only the 'fake' wind, which is always going from south to north.

Can you make the base of the spray denser, thinning out towards the top - a wave crashing

Yes, I will try to do that.

wouldn't foam be the result of a crashing wave landing back in the sea?

Our model should be this :

http://i.imgur.com/49V7WWq.jpg

Kendras

08-16-17, 02:22 PM

All in all looking really good, but still missing the full fury of a storm IMO

Worst scene scenario:-
http://twistedsifter.com/videos/huge-waves-crashing-against-lighthouses-in-france/ :03:

Yeah, cool video ! :up: I will try to copy the effect.

The sea appears to wrap the lighthouse with a cloak, and reluctantly let it go, leaving behind a mist of regret - how poetic is that?:D

Not bad ! :yeah:

Kendras

08-17-17, 08:07 AM

I wanted to save time by uploading patch 11. Now, here a more detailed answer to your discussions :

What I can do is making a third particle type, simulating vapourized water, to spawn with a certain delay, and to move further away from the splash following wind's direction. What do you think? Should I add this particle to both particle generators, or only to the one used for the highest waves?

Yes, it's a good idea. I made a big splash effect in patch 11, but with same texture used with medium splash (i don't like new textures very much). We might also use a white smoke texture. Now, I would like to add to it this vapourized water effect, but I didn't manage to create a nice one so far.

To answer your question, this new effect (vapourized water) should be added only with the generator used for the highest waves. Let me create this effect, I only need a correct texture for it (I will try with white smoke).

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 9 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/fi8ur9y83dxobua/Tourelle%20de%20La%20Plate%20v12%20-%20Patch%209.7z)

For this patch, I have added wind-driven spray to the highest waves. The texture used could be better, and there is still some space for improving the effect. ... I am curious to know what you think about it. Please don't hesitate giving me your criticism and any suggestion you migh have for making the overall effect to look better

Yes, a better texture is needed. More looking like vapors.

In any case, dynamic foam effect is definitely in our to-do list

Not the easiest thing to create. Please test patch 11, which contains a new method to create foam, with an 'experimental' texture. Once again, a nice texture is needed for it. May I ask you to create these textures, I know you're very skilled (among other things) in creating textures. :yep:

I believe you have 8 placement nodes for the particle generation? What would be the effect of increasing these nodes, say to 10 or 12?

The particle generators would be closer together, thus creating a better effect, especially if seen from above. I don't think increasing the number of particle generators placed around the lighthouse would have a big impact on game fluidity, as the generators we have set are not so particle-intensive. Nonetheless, should we notice any performance hit, we can always reduce the number of particles per generator. If we decide to increase the number of PG placement nodes from 8 to 12, A reduction to about 2/3 of the original particles should be okay

With all the new particle generators we are creating, the number of placement nodes has a real inpact on game fluidity. I think we should go back to 8 nodes for the little La Plate beacon. Keep in mind that with La Vieille lighthouse, which is a much bigger object with its rock, we will have to add more than 8 placement nodes (or create a new effect with bigger particles to reduce this number of nodes). I'm searching for the minimum number of particles to have a correct effect.

If you mean the sharp edge where the spray particle lays over the tower, that's due to the particle being on a plane which is behind tower's 3D mesh in that point. Maybe we can fix that glitch by playing with the DepthBias parameter.

Depth bias makes two objects that are co-planar in the 3D space to look as if they were one in front of the other by adding a z-bias to one of them. z in this case is not the z (North/South) global axis, but the "depth" axis that the virtual camera is aligned with at any given moment.
The approximate radius of the lighthouse base is 5 meters; your tests demonstrate that the depth bias setting in SH particle generators is in meters and that positive values mean particles closer to the observer :up:

Very interesting controller. This was the kind of effect I was searching for light halos to be always placed in front of the lantern. We should use it for this purpose.

I followed the whole discussion about wind direction and particles in SHIII, but matters in SH5 are slightly different. Particles that are supposed to be affected by real wind in SH5 files, have one or both of the features below:

- a parameterless GlobalWind controller attached to the same node as the particle generator;

- a GlobalWindCoef among particle generator's parameters, whose
description in Silent3ditor and Goblin Editor reads "Global/game wind coefficient (0=not affected by in-game wind)".

Neither of the above features is found in SHIII. I have already tried adding the GlobalWind controller to our splash effect but after running the test mission I couldn't see any difference. What I want to try next, is copying the settings of one of our particle generators into a SH5 particle generator with GlobalWindCoef set to a positive value, and see what happens. Chances of success are quite low though :hmmm:

BTW: I have bad news regarding the wind-aligned spray particles. I have replaced our particle generators with one from SH5. It works, but after trying many settings and setting combinations, I couldn't get our particles to follow the in-game wind. I think the additional PG parameters introduced with SH5, are simply ignored by SHIII.

At this point, I guess that our only hope would be an hardcoded patch by our wizards: Stiebler, h.sie and the likes. While we wait for their magic, what should we do with our particles? Should we scrap the fake wind, or keep it? and if so, what wind direction should we set?

If that was true, IF, we would be just one step away from solving the puzzle. What if we made the Wind X, Y and Z values extremely low, in particle generator's general settings, and we correspondingly increased the WindCoef value of each bitmap particle? :hmmm:

Should this last attempt fail, what would be the best wind direction for the "fixed wind"? A northerly wind maybe?

Let's give up. I don't think we will manage to make our particles to follow the wind. Of course, this would be a very nice addition, and could be used also for ships' funnel smoke. But it probably requires a hardcode modification. So, I suggest using this feature only for big splashes and vaporised water, with a fake wind going north.

Is there any way of making the wave-splash sound change with the wind speed/ At 15m/s you cannot hear it, and I'm pretty sure, from my own experience, it would be close to a roar when close to the light house?

Please point me to any sound effect that you think might be fit for it

Yes, I agree on having a new and loudlier sound for very big splashes.

As far as I am concerned, but I am pretty sure Kendras has no problem either, starting from now you and the other SHIV 'reverse-engineers' have full permissions granted on this mod. In fact, I wish the best parts of all the mods released so far for either of the SH games to be merged together one nice day, and to be adapted for all the games of the series

Yes, permissions granted to adapt this mod to other SH series, but with full credits and non commercial use, as always.

Poetic moment: may the firm and shining light of our lighthouses lead you and your family to the destination of your well deserved holidays, and elighten your way even during your darkest moments

:salute:

Kendras

08-17-17, 02:44 PM

Here patch 12 :

- a bigger splash effect for stormy conditions.

- the experimental foam texture has been replaced with a basic texture used by SH3. This foam effect is more visible in calm sea. Flickering effect due to the waves, not looking very nice ... :-? What do you think ? If it was only me, I would not add any foam effect.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/7qm5522tvgzpa01/Tourelle_de_La_Plate_v12_-_Patch_12.7z

gap

08-17-17, 03:42 PM

Hey Kendras, sorry for the concise answer but I am writing from my mobile. I have seen the screenies relative to patch 11 and they look good!
I will test patch 12 and let you know my impressions, together with my answers to your remarks, ASAP.

Keep up the great work, :yeah:
gap

Kendras

08-19-17, 07:14 AM

So, after the splash effects, the only feature which has to be done is the damage model ? Let try it together with La Vieille lighthouse, as this lighthouse will have different damage boxes types, and is located very close to La Plate ... :D

MLF

08-19-17, 07:44 AM

Sorry for the delay in giving feedback, RL took over.

The splash and spray looks good now, more explosive (?). One suggestion, possibly, is to make the spray (not splash) more windblown - dependant upon windspeed? I couldn't see any difference between patches 11 and 12 as far as the foam is concerned - still white circles around the lighthouse looking like ripples.

Regards,

MLF

gap

08-19-17, 05:39 PM

Here V12 with Patch 11

Here patch 12 :

How should I use them? Do they require any previous patch? I see no particle library file in your patches, are the modified particle generators stored directly in materials.dat? :doh:

Preparing Patch 11 with full explanations.

New main features :

[...]

- created a totally new concept to create foam around the rock

About the new foam effect, we have to replace the experimental texture, but the idea is there ...

Not the easiest thing to create. Please test patch 11, which contains a new method to create foam, with an 'experimental' texture. Once again, a nice texture is needed for it. May I ask you to create these textures, I know you're very skilled (among other things) in creating textures. :yep:

- the experimental foam texture has been replaced with a basic texture used by SH3. This foam effect is more visible in calm sea. Flickering effect due to the waves, not looking very nice ... :-? What do you think ? If it was only me, I would not add any foam effect.

I have been experimenting myself with the foam effect, but I didn't release anything related with it as I wasn't not even remotely satified with it (yet).

I didn't get time to look into your files yet, so I don't know how you implemented the effect, but in my case the flickering problem was caused by foam particles being flat and not following wave ripples. The best solution would be finding a controller forcing the game to render particles directly on the sea surface (provided that devs had thought about such a controller). If that wasn't possible, I suppose that the second best solution would be making single foam particles quite small, and linking them to their particle generator as object particles, each of them with a floating object controller attached. I hope I am amking myself clear.

As for textures, please have a look at the link below:

http://unigine.com/articles/procedural-content-generation

We could extract a single frame from that big texture or, preferably, we could use it as a whole and set it as an amimated texture (has I have noticedm PG's support them). Should the resulting animation look too stuttering, we could extract just a few frames, and generate the intermediate frames with a morphing program :03:

About the Depth bias controller, we should always set it at zero, else it's useless (IMO) and there are side effects.

Very interesting controller. This was the kind of effect I was searching for light halos to be always placed in front of the lantern. We should use it for this purpose.

Tests with this controller have not given univocal results so far: sometimes it seems to work, other times it seems not to have any effect, and some other times it seems to do things worse. The game randomizing environmental parameters every time the testing mission is loades, doesn't help either :hmmm:

All in all looking really good, but still missing the full fury of a storm IMO

Worst scene scenario:-
http://twistedsifter.com/videos/huge-waves-crashing-against-lighthouses-in-france/ :03:

Yeah, cool video ! :up: I will try to copy the effect.

Our model should be this :

http://i.imgur.com/49V7WWq.jpg

Terrific and frightful at the same time :o :up:

I wonder how lighthouse keepers could live in those wet traps in days like those lol, anyway I hope you guys aren't really aiming at mimicing that effect: wind speeds in SH games are limited to 15 m/s and such an huge splashes would be totally unrealistic even for the highest wave we can experience in game :yep:

I made a big splash effect in patch 11, but with same texture used with medium splash (i don't like new textures very much). We might also use a white smoke texture. Now, I would like to add to it this vapourized water effect, but I didn't manage to create a nice one so far.

To answer your question, this new effect (vapourized water) should be added only with the generator used for the highest waves. Let me create this effect, I only need a correct texture for it (I will try with white smoke).

[...]

a better texture is needed. More looking like vapors.

The horizontal splash texture used for smaller waves is okay IMO, but I agree with you that the spray texture could be a bit better. Vapour mixed with small water drops is what whe should aim for. I don't think any of the smoke particles already in game are fit for it. I will see what I can do with it :up:

With all the new particle generators we are creating, the number of placement nodes has a real inpact on game fluidity. I think we should go back to 8 nodes for the little La Plate beacon. Keep in mind that with La Vieille lighthouse, which is a much bigger object with its rock, we will have to add more than 8 placement nodes (or create a new effect with bigger particles to reduce this number of nodes). I'm searching for the minimum number of particles to have a correct effect.

I have increased placement nodes under request by MLF, who complained about the poor look of the splashes when seen from top. During my tests with the modified files, I coudn't notice any notable side-effect, but I agree with you that, when in the same area we will have many models linked to the same PG's, some lagging could happen especially on low-end computers.
The cure to that could be restoring the number of placement nodes to 8 (as I think you did with your latest patches), or decreasing the number o particles per particle generator, so that the total number of particles won't change. In other words, the same number of particles would be distributed more evenly around the model (overall visual effect shouldn't change much when seen from the sea level, and it should be better from the top).
Talking more in general, something we should do is setting PG's opacity/density scale far parameters appropriately. By doing that, we would save computer resources and improve the far look of splash effects (not being affected by haze, when seen from far distance our splashes stand a bit too much on the horizon).

Let's give up. I don't think we will manage to make our particles to follow the wind. Of course, this would be a very nice addition, and could be used also for ships' funnel smoke. But it probably requires a hardcode modification. So, I suggest using this feature only for big splashes and vaporised water, with a fake wind going north.

I couldn't agree more :yep:

Yes, I agree on having a new and loudlier sound for very big splashes.

Have you found any good sound for that? The submerged wave sound could be improved too. Oddly, it sounds okay inside the sub, but I can hear some sound distorsion (like a clipping) at the end of the SFX when it is heard in free camera :hmmm:

Yes, permissions granted to adapt this mod to other SH series, but with full credits and non commercial use, as always.

:up:

So, after the splash effects, the only feature which has to be done is the damage model ? Let try it together with La Vieille lighthouse, as this lighthouse will have different damage boxes types, and is located very close to La Plate ... :D

During your absence I dealed mostly with effects, but now that you are back on duty I will leave them to you. Damage models are nearly ready. Below you can see how the top tower will look (more or less) after all the detachable eave pieces (12 in total) are blown up:

http://i.imgur.com/LmKMiuc.png

I only need to twist/smash up/rip away the rebar frame (most of it will be gone in the final version).

Talking about effects and features that still need(ed) our attenction, I have reworked a bit your light effect. I have set its flashing period according to this graph:

http://www.sailingissues.com/light/cardinal-buoys.png

light flashes duration: ca. 0.4 s
short dark pauses duration: ca. 0.3 s
long dark pausel duration: 4 s

All in all, flashes last a bit longer now, and they are more easily conted. I hope you don't mind me modifying your setting; tomorrow i will post here my update.

Still talking about the light effect, I have calculated that its range in the SH world, for the La Plate lighthouse, should be ca. 15 km (eqivalent of 8 nm at the same latitude in RW), and I have set effect's LOD distance accordingly. Despite that, in calm weather and with perfect visibility, the effect becomes invisible at a distance of ca. 9 km, whereas the lights of the generic lighthouse models you have added with patch 1 are visible from further away. I don't know if this difference is caused by the different sizes of the two light effect, or by the fact that 'unit' objects become invisible before 'terrain' objects. I have also read that SHIII's skydome is a 3d model, and that different mods have been released to increase the visible range of far objects; this limitation might also come in the picture. What do you know on the topic? What's the radius of the stock SHIII atmosphere, and what the rendering radius? Talking about the latter, as far as you know, is there any differenece between units and terrain objects?

Kendras

08-20-17, 05:17 AM

How should I use them? Do they require any previous patch? I see no particle library file in your patches, are the modified particle generators stored directly in materials.dat?

No, they don't require any previous patch, the particles generators are stored directly in LLH_LaPlate.dat and Materials.dat.

but in my case the flickering problem was caused by foam particles being flat and not following wave ripples.

That's my problem too ...

If that wasn't possible, I suppose that the second best solution would be making single foam particles quite small, and linking them to their particle generator as object particles, each of them with a floating object controller attached.

... even with floating objects.

As for textures, please have a look at the link below:

http://unigine.com/articles/procedural-content-generation

We could extract a single frame from that big texture or, preferably, we could use it as a whole and set it as an amimated texture (has I have noticedm PG's support them). Should the resulting animation look too stuttering, we could extract just a few frames, and generate the intermediate frames with a morphing program

Very nice textures, but can be used only if they are following the waves' shape.

The best solution would be finding a controller forcing the game to render particles directly on the sea surface

Sure ! :yep:

(provided that devs had thought about such a controller).

I think they didn't think about such a controller ... :damn:

Tests with this controller have not given univocal results so far: sometimes it seems to work, other times it seems not to have any effect, and some other times it seems to do things worse. The game randomizing environmental parameters every time the testing mission is loades, doesn't help either

Mmh. I set 0,5 for the light halo, and there is no visible change, the halo is not in front of the lantern as expected ... :-?

I wonder how lighthouse keepers could live in those wet traps in days like those

A horrible noise preventing you to sleep, and the building quaking as if it was on the point to fall in the raging sea ... :Kaleun_Sick:

I hope you guys aren't really aiming at mimicing that effect: wind speeds in SH games are limited to 15 m/s and such an huge splashes would be totally unrealistic even for the highest wave we can experience in game

True. Just a bigger splash effect when waves are 2 meters a. s. l.

The horizontal splash texture used for smaller waves is okay IMO

Precisely, it's not. I explain. This texture has not a round shape. And it's always looking at camera. So when you see it from the air, you see 'lines'. Don't know if I'm clear enough. This results in this problem :

I have increased placement nodes under request by MLF, who complained about the poor look of the splashes when seen from top.

So, we have to not use it.

Talking more in general, something we should do is setting PG's opacity/density scale far parameters appropriately. By doing that, we would save computer resources and improve the far look of splash effects (not being affected by haze, when seen from far distance our splashes stand a bit too much on the horizon).

Really don't understand what you're talking about.

PS : What do you mean with FX, SFX and PG's ?

The submerged wave sound could be improved too. Oddly, it sounds okay inside the sub, but I can hear some sound distorsion (like a clipping) at the end of the SFX when it is heard in free camera

:huh:

During your absence I dealed mostly with effects, but now that you are back on duty I will leave them to you. Damage models are nearly ready. Below you can see how the top tower will look (more or less) after all the detachable eave pieces (12 in total) are blown up

Good work. :up:

I only need to twist/smash up/rip away the rebar frame (most of it will be gone in the final version).

You mean the rusty metalic structure all around the top of the tower ?

Talking about effects and features that still need(ed) our attenction, I have reworked a bit your light effect. I have set its flashing period according to this graph:

http://www.sailingissues.com/light/cardinal-buoys.png

light flashes duration: ca. 0.4 s
short dark pauses duration: ca. 0.3 s
long dark pausel duration: 4 s

All in all, flashes last a bit longer now, and they are more easily conted. I hope you don't mind me modifying your setting; tomorrow i will post here my update.

Yes, ok, no problem.

Still talking about the light effect, I have calculated that its range in the SH world, for the La Plate lighthouse, should be ca. 15 km (eqivalent of 8 nm at the same latitude in RW), and I have set effect's LOD distance accordingly. Despite that, in calm weather and with perfect visibility, the effect becomes invisible at a distance of ca. 9 km, whereas the lights of the generic lighthouse models you have added with patch 1 are visible from further away. I don't know if this difference is caused by the different sizes of the two light effect, or by the fact that 'unit' objects become invisible before 'terrain' objects. I have also read that SHIII's skydome is a 3d model, and that different mods have been released to increase the visible range of far objects; this limitation might also come in the picture. What do you know on the topic? What's the radius of the stock SHIII atmosphere, and what the rendering radius? Talking about the latter, as far as you know, is there any differenece between units and terrain objects?

In stock game, the radius of the sky is 8 km. In GWX, it's 16 km. So, if the object is more than 8 km away from you, it will disappear.

The 'rendering radius' is controlled by the fog parameters.

gap

08-20-17, 09:13 AM

No, they don't require any previous patch, the particles generators are stored directly in LLH_LaPlate.dat and Materials.dat.

Okay, I will test them right after replying your other remarks :up:

That's my problem too ...

... even with floating objects.

Very nice textures, but can be used only if they are following the waves' shape.

Sure ! :yep:

I think they didn't think about such a controller ... :damn:

Okay, let me see if by digging stock files I can find any useful controller. If we don't, I think that animated particles might make the flickering lesser obvious. If also that trick doesn't work, we can always scrap the effect, though not seeing any foam on the sea surface after those big splashes, would be a bit unnatural :hmm2:

Mmh. I set 0,5 for the light halo, and there is no visible change, the halo is not in front of the lantern as expected ... :-?

You might try some higher values, what do you want to achieve? On my system, after restoring the dummy 3D model linked to the same node as the light effect, the light is normally in front of the lantern (its glass looks illuminated) unless I move the camera too close to the lantern, in which case, depending on the angle, the light pops on the back of the lantern. When this happens, clicking again on the free camera (eye) icon, resets the effect and moves it back in front of the glass :yep:

A horrible noise preventing you to sleep, and the building quaking as if it was on the point to fall in the raging sea ... :Kaleun_Sick:

I hope they were well paid for having to go through such an horrible experience throughout their lives :D

True. Just a bigger splash effect when waves are 2 meters a. s. l.

:up:

Precisely, it's not. I explain. This texture has not a round shape. And it's always looking at camera. So when you see it from the air, you see 'lines'. Don't know if I'm clear enough. This results in this problem :

During my tests I have never noticed anything similar to what you are describing, and I find that texture pretty appropriate as main particle for low-medium waves, but to be honest my comments are only relative to side views of the effect: I don't care too much how the overall effect looks from the top, as we will rarely see it from that perspective anyway :03:

Really don't understand what you're talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/LnYmy5s.jpg

PS : What do you mean with FX, SFX and PG's ?

FX = effects
SFX = sound effects
PG = particle generator

Good work. :up:

Thanks :smug:

You mean the rusty metalic structure all around the top of the tower ?

Exactly. Except for being rusty, that framework looks like it has been just set up and waiting for fresh concrete to be casted around it. I must try and imagine how the same structure would look after an explosion, with entire portions of it ripped away together with the eaves it supported, and the remaining portions badly twisted due to the explosion :D

Yes, ok, no problem.

You can copy/paste the reworked effect from the dat file linked below:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/5cpmfhqmh24iaa7/Lighthouse_FX.7z

I also suggest you to copy the light halo material embedded in the same file: it represents a light glow with rays not sticking out from the glow (as in the stock texture), but being part of the glow itself. The effect is best appreciated against a dark background, as the sea surface.

In stock game, the radius of the sky is 8 km. In GWX, it's 16 km.

The 16 km atmosphere mod is a separate mod of GWX, but during my tests I didn't enable it. I will for my next tests and I will let you know the results :up:

So, if the object is more than 8 km away from you, it will disappear.

This radius is actually longer than 8 km; a little more than 9 km measured on the nav map. After that limit the light disappears. What is strange, is that the effect linked to the generic models is visible from a longer distance...

The 'rendering radius' is controlled by the fog parameters.

I am talking about the radius beyond which any unit is treated in game as a dimensionless point on the map and information of its damage and remaining ammo storage is reset to standard values. This value in stock SH5 is equal to ca. 20 km and it is hardcoded (though there is a patch by TheDarkWraith for setting it at wish); I suspect it replaced the soft-coded atmosphere radius of older SH games.

Still talkin about SH5, dunno about SHIII and IV, fog parameters are only for player's visual, and they have nothing to do with the actual rendering radius (as far as an unit is within 20 km from the player, it will be treated as a physical object, whether the player can see it or not depending on weather conditions and fog settings).

Talking about our mod, I think the highest and most powerful lighthouses emit a light signal that, at best visibility conditions, can be seen as far as 60 km away from their source. I wish our mod to reflect those nominal ranges, but I am afraid that setting in-game rendering/atmosphere radius to 60 km, will be beyond the possibilies of the game engine and of our poor machines.
I am wondering what could be a good alternative. Scaling down the ranges by a factor 4-5 maybe, so that the longest ranged lights will be visible from a distance of 15-12 km, and shorter lights as La Plate will be visible within a radius of only 4-5 km? what do you think? :hmmm:

MLF

08-20-17, 11:26 AM

gap

08-20-17, 12:31 PM

Talking about our mod, I think the highest and most powerful lighthouses emit a light signal that, at best visibility conditions, can be seen as far as 60 km away from their source. I wish our mod to reflect those nominal ranges, but I am afraid that setting in-game rendering/atmosphere radius to 60 km, will be beyond the possibilies of the game engine and of our poor machines.
I am wondering what could be a good alternative. Scaling down the ranges by a factor 4-5 maybe, so that the longest ranged lights will be visible from a distance of 15-12 km, and shorter lights as La Plate will be visible within a radius of only 4-5 km? what do you think? :hmmm:

@ Kendras

I have noticed that Hitman had created a 20-km environment mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1108824#post1108824), but unfortunately the link is down :-?

I have also seen that you had a 30-km environment mod planned. Did you make any progress with it?

A set of optional long-range environment mods especially developped for this mod would be a cool addition to it, but I am afraid their settings are a bit tricky :hmmm:

The range of La Plate is 8 Miles (13km) - modern chart in screenshot shows characteristic as:
A group of 9 very quick flashes over a 10 second period, 19m high (as you said gap:)) with a range of 8 Miles (13km)

I have followed an empirical method in order to calculate (more or less) the equivalent range of 8 miles in the SHIII world.

What I have done, is plotting that 8-nm range on a nautical chart. Radius length on map was calculated based on the length of one degree of latitude/longitude at Raz de Sein's latitude. There are many on-line calculators that you can get this data from; I used the one below:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/degreelenllavcalc.html

The next step was squeezing the nautical chart I was drawing on, so that one minute of latitude was as long as one minute of longitude (as in the SH world). After doing that, La Plate's circular range became an ellipse.

I then measured the length of major and minor axes of this ellipse (real range), and I calculated the radius of the best-fitting SHIII range as the square root of the square of ellipse's semimajor axis plus the square of ellipse's semiminor axis. This is the result after drawing the SHIII radius on map:

http://i.imgur.com/WM853Vt.jpg

Legend:
Red ellipse - 'squeezed' real radius
Yellow circle - SHIII radius (calculated for maximizing overlapping over non-overlapping areas)
Orange area - overlapping area between the two ranges

At this point, knowing that in SHIII one minute of latitude/longitude is always equal to 2 km, calculating the desired in-game radius was a simple math. My result is 15,107 metres, with an ecceptable margin of error caused by the approximations used :)

Link to abbreviations and symbols - still searching for 1940's era symbols.

http://www.yachter.fr/shom/html5/symboles%20abreviations/index.html#56/z

Still looking forward to them :O:

MLF

08-20-17, 01:46 PM

If only all these converters were available when I was at sea:roll:

I'll resume the search for chart 5011 symbols mid-september. Off and away now:) Leave you in peace:yep:

Regards,

MLF

gap

08-20-17, 02:10 PM

If only all these converters were available when I was at sea:roll:

Were you in the navy? :)

I'll resume the search for chart 5011 symbols mid-september. Off and away now:) Leave you in peace:yep:

Enjoy your holidays mate, when you are back you will find us here :salute:

MLF

08-20-17, 02:38 PM

Were you in the navy? :)

Enjoy your holidays mate, when you are back you will find us here :salute:

18 years :03:

Thank you gap.

regards,

MLF

Kendras

08-20-17, 02:49 PM

Bonnes vacances !

:Kaleun_Salute:

MLF

08-20-17, 02:59 PM

J'espère bien.
Merci Kendras.

gap

08-20-17, 04:43 PM

18 years :03:

You have all my respect Sir :salute:

Kendras

08-26-17, 09:34 AM

@ Kendras

I have noticed that Hitman had created a 20-km environment mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1108824#post1108824), but unfortunately the link is down :-?

I have also seen that you had a 30-km environment mod planned. Did you make any progress with it?

No, I am stuck on this. The sky is always black, and I don't know why ...

Kendras

08-27-17, 09:46 AM

I've found a photography showing the aspect of La Vieille lighthouse during the 1930-1940s years.

And if it can help you, there are also drawings with precise measures.

http://mnesys-portail.archives-finistere.fr/?form_display_fulltext=%22Phares+et+Balises%22+ET+ %22La+Vieille%22&form_search_fulltext=%22Phares+et+Balises%22+ET+%2 2La+Vieille%22&btn_valid=Rechercher&label_dao=Avec+document%28s%29+num%C3%A9ris%C3%A9% 28s%29&form_search_dao=oui&action=search&id=recherche_grandpublic

MLF

08-27-17, 01:03 PM

Admiralty Charts of Scottish coasts, 1795-1963

http://maps.nls.uk/coasts/admiralty_charts_list.html

Browsing these gives an idea of chart symbols in use in 1940 on admiralty charts.

Regards,

MLF

Kendras

08-27-17, 02:26 PM

Admiralty Charts of Scottish coasts, 1795-1963

http://maps.nls.uk/coasts/admiralty_charts_list.html

What does the repeated black symbol mean ? :hmm2:

http://i.imgur.com/ZduncmK.png

MLF

08-27-17, 03:45 PM

Mooring buoys.

gap

08-28-17, 04:20 PM

Good findings guys, thank you for sharing them you are amazing :up:

I've found a photography showing the aspect of La Vieille lighthouse during the 1930-1940s years.

And if it can help you, there are also drawings with precise measures.

http://mnesys-portail.archives-finistere.fr/?form_display_fulltext=%22Phares+et+Balises%22+ET+ %22La+Vieille%22&form_search_fulltext=%22Phares+et+Balises%22+ET+%2 2La+Vieille%22&btn_valid=Rechercher&label_dao=Avec+document%28s%29+num%C3%A9ris%C3%A9% 28s%29&form_search_dao=oui&action=search&id=recherche_grandpublic

Excellent view!

As far as I can see from it, the lighthouse hasn't changed much during the last 80 years. The elevator tower (the one destroyed in 2008) is hidden behind the main lighthouse building in the picture but you can see the Termperly crane it housed, to the right of the lighthouse. Apparently, also the concrete hut on the same side of the lighthouse was already there (it probably housed transporter's motor), and the balcony towards the top of the lighthouse is clearly visible. My only complaint is that the picture doesn't show if the concrete house currently covering half of the gallery, was there in the 40s. Probably yes, but in any case I will set all the structures above as configurable equipments, so it will be easy "switching" them on and off.

Did you happen to find similar pictures of the Tourelle de La Plate. :D
As I have said in the past, I am not totally sure that its original painting featured the black/yellow stripes it sports now...

Admiralty Charts of Scottish coasts, 1795-1963

http://maps.nls.uk/coasts/admiralty_charts_list.html

Browsing these gives an idea of chart symbols in use in 1940 on admiralty charts.

Regards,

MLF

I wish we had similar charts (and of that quality!) for other areas, including the West of France. In any case, chart symbols for buoyage, lighthouse and tower beacons (as La Plate), seem not to have changes much since then.
The problem with SHIII map icons, is that their resolution is too low and there is no way to increase. Asa consequence, making them to look smooth is not easy, and the more edges and thin lines they have, the worse they look. In any case I will do my best to draw a set of icons which resemble more closely the one seen on your maps :up:

P.S: Work on La Plate "damage" models is finished. I am now importing the new meshes in game. Hopefully tomorrow there will be an update by me :salute:

Kendras

08-29-17, 11:06 AM

gap

08-29-17, 03:53 PM

Search findings :

http://mnesys-portail.archives-finistere.fr/?form_display_fulltext=la+vieille+1930+1940&form_search_fulltext=la+ET+vieille+ET+1930+ET+1940&btn_valid=Rechercher&label_dao=Avec+document%28s%29+num%C3%A9ris%C3%A9% 28s%29&form_search_dao=oui&action=search&id=recherche_grandpublic&id=recherche_grandpublic&doc=&page_ref=&keep=search&tri=0

You were right, the paint sheme of La Plate was different than today ...

I had this feeling... :-?

The picture is a bit blurred, but the light/dark gray area at the base of the tower is likely the unpainted base, the lower portion of it looking darker because of fouling and algae caking it; conversely, it seems that the tower and the tower-top metal platform might have been painted black, and/or a color which might have appeared black on a B/W film, i.e. red. My best guess for the WWII-era painting is either plain red (that would be compatible with a red lateral mark) or black/red (isolated danger mark). What do you think? :hmm2:

Please let me know if you find any better picture or a description of what La Plate's painting and illumination color/phase might have been during the 30-40's :)

gap

08-29-17, 06:43 PM

New "splitted" model imported in game, and damage boxes for each damageable sub-model added to the zon file. Everything looks fine in game.

I now need to create a few more new damage definitions for zones that are supposed to take damage but not to be destroyed, and I have to fine-tune zones/boxes/unit's hit points and armor levels.

The model will use two ObjectRemains controllers. One of them will be used for when the tower top is destroyed (it will be replaced by a rough concrete surface with protruding rebars that will cover the "hole" left by the destroyed model); the other controller will be used on the metal platform (its replacement model will feature only the three concrete cubes holding the platform and, maybe, portions of the metal poles sticking from the cubes).

@ Kendras:

I couldn't find any example of ObjectRemains being used in stock files. I know you have messed with it in the past, and finally got it to work. Could you please tell me all you know about its correct usage (type of file that it needs to be stored in, its position in the file/node structure, format of the field where you specify the replacement model, etc.)? :salute:

Anvar1061

08-30-17, 05:03 AM

[QUOTE=Kendras;2451598]
For .mis file :
For locations.cfg :

I use the GWX supermode and in it ClassName = CDSearchLight
UnitType = 408. I had to make changes to Campaigns, Land, Roster and Terrain. It took all evening, but it does not work for me.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Confused.gif

Kendras

08-30-17, 05:03 AM

I couldn't find any example of ObjectRemains being used in stock files.

This controller is used for destroyed models of the U-Boats' guns.

Could you please tell me all you know about its correct usage (type of file that it needs to be stored in, its position in the file/node structure, format of the field where you specify the replacement model, etc.)?

So, you have a 3D model that you want to be destroyed and replaced by a new 3D model or a special effect (particles). Link to this model a destructible damage boxe. Add the ObjectRemains controller as child of the node containing the 3D model. Specify the exact name of the node which will contain the new 3D model or effect. This node will be stored in a Library file. :know:

Kendras

08-30-17, 05:12 AM

For .mis file :
For locations.cfg :

I use the GWX supermode and in it ClassName = CDSearchLight
UnitType = 408. I had to make changes to Campaigns, Land, Roster and Terrain. It took all evening, but it does not work for me.
:k_confused:

Oh. You should have replaced each 403 by 408 in your mission file. And don't change GWX files ! :o

Anvar1061

08-30-17, 05:17 AM

[QUOTE=Anvar1061;2509540]

Oh. You should have replaced each 403 by 408 in your mission file. And don't change GWX files ! :o

This is the first thing I did. But the result is the same. Then I went the hard way.

Kendras

08-30-17, 05:20 AM

This is the first thing I did. But the result is the same. Then I went the hard way.

Didn't you forget to add a 'human' submarine ? :D

Anvar1061

08-30-17, 06:26 AM

Didn't you forget to add a 'human' submarine ? :D
It seems I made him work.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=Tourelle+de+La+Plate+Rus.7z

gap

08-30-17, 06:43 AM

This controller is used for destroyed models of the U-Boats' guns.

So, you have a 3D model that you want to be destroyed and replaced by a new 3D model or a special effect (particles). Link to this model a destructible damage boxe. Add the ObjectRemains controller as child of the node containing the 3D model. Specify the exact name of the node which will contain the new 3D model or effect. This node will be stored in a Library file. :know:

Thanks, that's right the information I needed :up:

I had this feeling... :-?

The picture is a bit blurred, but the light/dark gray area at the base of the tower is likely the unpainted base, the lower portion of it looking darker because of fouling and algae caking it; conversely, it seems that the tower and the tower-top metal platform might have been painted black, and/or a color which might have appeared black on a B/W film, i.e. red. My best guess for the WWII-era painting is either plain red (that would be compatible with a red lateral mark) or black/red (isolated danger mark). What do you think? :hmm2:

Please let me know if you find any better picture or a description of what La Plate's painting and illumination color/phase might have been during the 30-40's :)

No remarks? :D

Kendras

08-30-17, 06:55 AM

it seems that the tower and the tower-top metal platform might have been painted black, and/or a color which might have appeared black on a B/W film, i.e. red. My best guess for the WWII-era painting is either plain red (that would be compatible with a red lateral mark) or black/red (isolated danger mark). What do you think? :hmm2:

Hard to say. Plain black is very unlikely. Maybe plain red. I don't think it was an isolated danger mark, else, they would have just added a simple buoy, and not built a whole concrete tower. :hmmm:

Edit : But a red tower with a green light ? (from 1911)

gap

08-30-17, 11:46 AM

Hard to say. Plain black is very unlikely.

I agree

Maybe plain red.

Maybe :hmmm:
Look at the picture below portraying the nearby Tourelle du Chat:

http://a401.idata.over-blog.com/6/01/50/33/archives/7/DSC02196.JPG

You can see a coat of what looks like a solid red paint under the current black/yellow paintwork. Other lighthouses or day beacons with solid red or mostly red paint (possibly used as lateral marks):

http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/images-phares.jpg/richelieu.jpghttp://www.lighthouses.take-a-picture.net/images/800/D099769_01.jpg
Tourelle Richelieu (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/richelieu.html) (La Rochelle)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7212/7160981032_50240fb097_b.jpg
Tourelle des Vignettes (Saint-Nazaire)

http://listoflights.org/images/leuchtfeuer/gross/D1062.jpg
Tourelle du Pignon (Rivière de Penerf estuary)

Edit : But a red tower with a green light ? (from 1911)

You are right, it makes little sense, unless the steady green light was replaced with something else on a later date...

I don't think it was an isolated danger mark, else, they would have just added a simple buoy, and not built a whole concrete tower. :hmmm:

That's not so uncommon in especially dangerous areas, where the beacon and the light on top of it (if any) are better spotted from a longer distance than it is possible with an 'isolated danger' buoy:

http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/images-phares.jpg/lavardin.jpghttp://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/16/68/07/31/11242610.jpg
Tourelle du Lavardin (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/lavardin.html)

http://www.phares-et-balises.fr/12/Tourelle_des_Brillantes_01.jpg
Tourelle des Brillantes

http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/images-phares.jpg/birvidaux.jpghttp://phares.du.monde.free.fr/phare21/birvideaux1.jpeg
Tourelle des Birvideaux (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/birvideaux.html)

http://phares.du.monde.free.fr/phare04/lorient2.jpeg
Tourelle du Soulard (Lorient)

propbeanie

08-30-17, 11:50 AM

From https://www.us-lighthouses.com/faq.php

Q. Why are lighthouses painted differently? Do these designs represent something?
A. Lighthouses are painted different colors and designs to make them daymarks. So, if you were a Mariner out at sea during the day, you could look for the lighthouse. Let says for instance that you were off the coast of NC and you saw black and white swirling stripes down the lighthouse, you would then know that you were by Cape Hatteras. Or say you saw a lighthouse that had black and white diamond shapes on it....you would then know that you were farther south by Cape Lookout.

Q. If lighthouses are painted different to distinguish them during the day, how can you tell them apart in the dark?
A. Similar enough, each lighthouse also flashes a different sequence of light for the exact same reason. Cape Hatteras flashes a white light every 7.5 seconds. (The light actually rotates, but it gives the appearance of flashing from a distance.) Cape Lookout flashes a white light every 15 seconds. So, by scanning the horizon for the lighthouse, and then watching the light, you were able to figure out where on the seaboard you were.
All you need to find is the local "plan" for the lighthouses circa 1938 or so... easy peasy :roll:

The US University of North Carolina apparently has someone interested in lighthouses around the world:
https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/
perhaps someone there could direct you to historical data?

Kendras

08-30-17, 01:04 PM

That's not so uncommon in especially dangerous areas, where the beacon and the light on top of it (if any) are better spotted from a longer distance than it is possible with an 'isolated danger' buoy: ......

.... and here also : http://www.haka-spirit.net/spip.php?article159

Especially this sentence :

La Grande Vinotière à laisser du côté que l’on veut.Which means you can pass on the right or on the left of this red tower.

You are right, it makes little sense, unless the steady green light was replaced with something else on a later date...

OK. I agree to choose plain red mask, with a west buoy light, or simply red fix light.

gap

08-30-17, 01:23 PM

From https://www.us-lighthouses.com/faq.php

All you need to find is the local "plan" for the lighthouses circa 1938 or so... easy peasy :roll:

:lol:

The US University of North Carolina apparently has someone interested in lighthouses around the world:
https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/
perhaps someone there could direct you to historical data?

We know that website all too well: it is our main source of information :up:

I have never thought of getting in touch with the guys at UNC. That's not a bad idea, though I suppose that the information we need is more easily found in some dusty French archive lol :)

Kendras

08-30-17, 01:51 PM

I have never thought of getting in touch with the guys at UNC. That's not a bad idea, though I suppose that the information we need is more easily found in some dusty French archive lol :)

http://www.archives-finistere.fr/sites/default/files/Gerer_Archives_Publiques_Cadre_Classement_AD29.pdf

Probably in 4S ...

gap

08-31-17, 05:09 AM

.... and here also : http://www.haka-spirit.net/spip.php?article159

Especially this sentence :

Which means you can pass on the right or on the left of this red tower.

OK. I agree to choose plain red mask, with a west buoy light, or simply red fix light.

What if, after all, the Tourelle de la Plate was painted dark green and the nearby Tourelle du Chat red? They might have marked the narrow navigable canal between the Chaussée de Sein and the Pointe du Raz (i.e. the Raz de Sein itself) as a couple of lateral marks rather than as cardinal marks. Does it make sense? :hmm2:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Chausseedesein.png

http://www.archives-finistere.fr/sites/default/files/Gerer_Archives_Publiques_Cadre_Classement_AD29.pdf

Probably in 4S ...

Are those files accessible to the public? :D

Kendras

08-31-17, 05:38 AM

What if, after all, the Tourelle de la Plate was painted dark green and the nearby Tourelle du Chat red? They might have marked the narrow navigable canal between the Chaussée de Sein and the Pointe du Raz (i.e. the Raz de Sein itself) as a couple of lateral marks rather than as cardinal marks. Does it make sense? :hmm2:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Chausseedesein.png

Yes. :yep:

Are those files accessible to the public? :D

I think they are.

gap

08-31-17, 07:53 AM

Yes. :yep:

Probably the most logical configuration, and in accordance with the steady green light recorded for La Plate in 1911.
My one doubt is about the unusually dark shade of grey representing the lighthouse in the historical picture you have pointed me to. Human eye's spectral gamma and the one of B/W films are quite different. Usually, red shades look much darker on old B/W photographs than they would have looked to the nake eye, and conversely green shades are recorded as ligh grey, much lighter than the eye perceives them. This is especially true for old films and orthocromatic emulsions.
Going by the tone of grey seen on your picture, we should conclude that the lighthouse was painted red rather than green; nonetheless the picture might have been taken with a panchromatic film which is proportionally lesser sensitive to green than to red, and/or the green paint used on La Plate might have been unusually dark. The tower beeing photographed on the background of the brighter ocean surface, might also have enhanced the darkness of the tower, making it to appear as a silhouette...

I think they are.

How? Were they digitized? :hmmm:

Kendras

08-31-17, 09:21 AM

Probably the most logical configuration, and in accordance with the steady green light recorded for La Plate in 1911.
My one doubt is about the unusually dark shade of grey representing the lighthouse in the historical picture you have pointed me to. Human eye's spectral gamma and the one of B/W films are quite different. Usually, red shades look much darker on old B/W photographs than they would have looked to the nake eye, and conversely green shades are recorded as ligh grey, much lighter than the eye perceives them. This is especially true for old films and orthocromatic emulsions.
Going by the tone of grey seen on your picture, we should conclude that the lighthouse was painted red rather than green; nonetheless the picture might have been taken with a panchromatic film which is proportionally lesser sensitive to green than to red, and/or the green paint used on La Plate might have been unusually dark. The tower beeing photographed on the background of the brighter ocean surface, might also have enhanced the darkness of the tower, making it to appear as a silhouette...

If you look very close to the photography, you can see something looking as a darker band on the tower :

http://i.imgur.com/aJuI0Fg.png

perhaps a red band on a green tower, or a black band on a red tower ? :hmm2:

gap

08-31-17, 01:00 PM

If you look very close to the photography, you can see something looking as a darker band on the tower :

http://i.imgur.com/aJuI0Fg.png

perhaps a red band on a green tower, or a black band on a red tower ? :hmm2:

mmm... possible, but it is difficult to guess the exact paint scheme from those few pixels.
We definitely need a better picture, or a textual confirmation of our guesses.
Conversely, what seems already clear to me is that the gas tank/lantern platform had to look more similar to the drawings below than to the one seen in recent pictures :yep:

http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/images-phares.jpg/plate-du-raz.jpg
La Plate

http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/images-phares.jpg/le-chat.jpg
Le Chat

Kendras

09-01-17, 05:24 AM

It seems I made him work.

First post updated with new lighthouses, and no more searchlights but naval bases, so you can see the names on your navigation map.

Anvar1061

09-01-17, 07:24 AM

First post updated with new lighthouses, and no more searchlights but naval bases, so you can see the names on your navigation map.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif
Type 408 not defined for LHLaPlate!

gap

09-01-17, 12:35 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif
Type 408 not defined for LHLaPlate!

What are you testing Anvar?

Here with all the latest mod/patches, everything works fine :hmmm:

First post updated with new lighthouses, and no more searchlights but naval bases, so you can see the names on your navigation map.

Yesterday I have found this useful website, with accurate positions of many French lighthouses, navigation beacons and landmarks that we weren't even aware of:

http://test.chemineur.fr/viewtopic.php?t=4114 :)

Kendras

09-01-17, 02:06 PM

Yesterday I have found this useful website, with accurate positions of many French lighthouses, navigation beacons and landmarks that we weren't even aware of:

http://test.chemineur.fr/viewtopic.php?t=4114 :)

Very nice and useful ! :yeah: However, I don't see Tourelle des Vieux Moines.

If we want to add all this stuff, we really need to create generic models ! :88)

Kendras

09-01-17, 03:46 PM

Tourelle Richelieu (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/richelieu.html) (La Rochelle)

You are right, it makes little sense, unless the steady green light was replaced with something else on a later date...

But Tourelle Richelieu is red with a green light (red light before 1975). :lol:

gap

09-01-17, 04:45 PM

Very nice and useful ! :yeah: However, I don't see Tourelle des Vieux Moines.

Possibly some minor lighthouses and beacons are missing, but in general you can find there some navigation aids that are not easily found elsewhere, and with accurate position! :up:

If we want to add all this stuff, we really need to create generic models ! :88)

Definitely yes and, little by little I will replace them with realistic models. The more models I will create, the bigger the pool of models that you can choose from for usage as "proxy copies" of the real things.
Something you could do for now, is grouping all the lighthouses that we are aware of by appearance and dimensions, so I can focus on creating at least a model for each group, giving an higher priority to the most numerous groups.

But Tourelle Richelieu is red with a green light (red light before 1975). :lol:

You are right. In other words, you are suggesting that we paint the La Plate tower red? :)

On a side note: yesterday night I could not sleep and I was feeling a bit bored, so I decided to indulge in a small diversion from the other models lighthouses we are currently working on... :03:

http://i.imgur.com/LkPyY4z.png

Anvar1061

09-01-17, 09:38 PM

What are you testing Anvar?
Here with all the latest mod/patches

Where? Show me the most current version.

Kendras

09-02-17, 04:04 AM

Possibly some minor lighthouses and beacons are missing, but in general you can find there some navigation aids that are not easily found elsewhere, and with accurate position! :up:

Yes. :yep:

Definitely yes and, little by little I will replace them with realistic models. The more models I will create, the bigger the pool of models that you can choose from for usage as "proxy copies" of the real things. Something you could do for now, is grouping all the lighthouses that we are aware of by appearance and dimensions, so I can focus on creating at least a model for each group, giving an higher priority to the most numerous groups.

Yes, I was planning to do that.

You are right. In other words, you are suggesting that we paint the La Plate tower red? :)

Why not ? :rotfl2:

On a side note: yesterday night I could not sleep and I was feeling a bit bored, so I decided to indulge in a small diversion from the other models lighthouses we are currently working on... :03:

http://i.imgur.com/LkPyY4z.png

Amazing ! :o I love it. :yeah:

Where? Show me the most current version.

The most current version is V12 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2504774&postcount=478) + patch 12 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2507069&postcount=556)

gap

09-02-17, 04:08 AM

Where? Show me the most current version.

Tourelle de la Plate alpha v12 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2504774&postcount=478)

+

Tourelle de la Plate v12 - patch 1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2505374&postcount=491)

+

Tourelle de la Plate v12 - patch 12 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2507069&postcount=556)

Enable them in that order. Besides improving water spray effect from high waves, the last patch features an unfinished wave foam effect which uses a stopgap texture and it is meant just for testing purposes. Shouldn't you likeit, you can replace patch 12 with:

Tourelle de La Plate v12 - Patch 10 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2506583&postcount=540) :03:

Kendras

09-02-17, 10:47 AM

So, about (temporary) generic lighthouses, I've made a sorting by shape of the section (square, circle, octagon), size and general shape.

(***) means destroyed during WWII

The height of each lighthouse is given from the ground level (and not sea level)

1./ Circular section - high height

L'Ile Vierge : 82,5 m

Gatteville : 74,75 m

La Coubre : 64 m

Risban (Dunkerque) : 63 m

La Hague : 50 m (~), 47 m (tower)

Les Héaux de Bréhat (***) : 48 m (~)

Le Cap Ferret (***) : 47,7 m

Biarritz : 47,05 m

2./ Circular section - massive appearance

L'Ile de Batz : 42,60 m

Le Cap Gris-Nez (***) : 24 m

3./ Circular section

Créac'h : 54,85 m

Goulphar : 52,25 m

L'Ile de Sein (***) : 43 m (without foundations)

Chassiron : 43 m

Saint-Matthieu : 37 m

Ar-Men : 33,5 m ?

Chauveau : 30,70 m

4./ Circular section

Ouistreham : 38,2 m

Cayeux (***) : 27 m ?

Port-Maria : 24,8 m

5./ Circular section - Middle Age appearance

Kéréon : 44 m ?

Contis (***) : 39 m

Les Pierres-Noires : 28 m

Le Four : 28 m

Les Grands Cardinaux : 27 m

Le Petit-Minou : 26 m

6./ Circular section - Enlarged basis

Les Baleineaux : 31 m

La Banche : 26,5 m

Le Grand-Jardin (***) : 26,30 m

Le Grand Charpentier : 25,4 m

Les Barges : 24,81 m

La Pierre de Herpin : 24 m

Le Four du Croisic : 23 m

Sénéquet : 17 m

7./ Circular section - simple shape

Terre-Nègre : 26,64 m

Berck (***) : 11 m

8./ Circular section - small and massive appearance

L'Aiguillon : 21,8 m

La Teignouse : 16,35 m

Circular section - others

9./ Cordouan : 67,50 m

10./ Le Stiff : 32,4 m

11./ Trézien : 37,2 m

12./ Circular section - small lighthouses

Men Brial : 14 m

Port Manec'h : 8 m

----------------------------------------------

13./ Octagonal section - high height

Les Baleines : 57 m

La Canche (Touquet) (***) : 52 m (tower)

Calais : 51 m (tower)

14./ Octagonal section

La Jument : 47 m

Nividic : 35,55 m ?

Portzic : 35 m

Octagonal section - others

15./ Eckmühl : 60 m

16./ Le Cap Fréhel (***) : 29 m

----------------------------------------------

17./ Square section - Middle Age appearance

Grave : 29,2 m

La Vieille : 26,90 m

18./ Square section

Le Pilier : 34 m

19./ Square section - massive appearance

Pen-Men : 27,66 m

20./ Square section - small

Kermorvan : 20,3 m

Les Triagoz : 15 m

----------------------------------------------

21./ Small house-lighthouses

Pontusval

Tévennec

Le Toulinguet

Le Kador

La Pointe des Chats

Les Poulains

Kerdonis

gap

09-02-17, 12:48 PM

Yes, I was planning to do that.

:up:

Why not ? :rotfl2:

Well, the one con that I can think of about La Plate possibly having been red, is that the two tourelles (La Plate, and Le Chat) are quite close to each other and, as you might remember, I have shown you a picture that might demonstrate Le Chat being painted solid red before having been given the current paint scheme.
Close lighthouses are usually given totally different shapes and colors, to help their recognition by sailors in poor visibility conditions. Indeed, as you have already pointed, the La Plate tower might have had a central black band (isolated danger mark) which might have differentiated it from the Tourelle du Chat. Yet, I don't get the point of leaving the latter as an isolated red lateral mark, without a green mark marking the other side of the canal :hmmm:

EDIT: Well done on the lighthouse grouping. I have to go out now, more comments later :up:

Kendras

09-02-17, 03:05 PM

Yet, I don't get the point of leaving the latter as an isolated red lateral mark, without a green mark marking the other side of the canal :hmmm:

So, maybe the easiest way is to keep the current paint sheme. :)

Well done on the lighthouse grouping.

Thank you, that was a good exercice. Now, we have to find an average shape for each group. :hmmm:

I have to go out now, more comments later :up:

You return to Senegal ? :lol:

Anvar1061

09-03-17, 10:54 AM

[CENTER][URL="http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2504774&postcount=478"]
Enable them in that order.
It's in this order that I put. But this does not match #1

LLH_LaPlate.cfg
[Unit]
ClassName=LHLaPlate
3DModelFileName=data/Land/LLH_LaPlate/LLH_LaPlate
UnitType=407
MaxSpeed=0.000000
MinSpeed=0.000000
Length=7.5
Width=7.1
RenownAwarded=1
For .mis file:
[Unit 17]
Name=Tourelle de la Plate
Class=LHLaPlate
Type=408
Origin=France
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-571143.000000
Lat=5764737.000000
Height=-17.000000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

Kendras

09-03-17, 10:57 AM

But this does not match #1

LLH_LaPlate.cfg

[Unit]
ClassName=LHLaPlate
3DModelFileName=data/Land/LLH_LaPlate/LLH_LaPlate
UnitType=408
MaxSpeed=0.000000
MinSpeed=0.000000
Length=7.5
Width=7.1
RenownAwarded=1

Anvar1061

09-03-17, 11:23 AM

LLH_LaPlate.cfg

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif
This you had to fix Tourelle de la Plate alpha v12 and in the Roster folder, and I did not have to rack my brains.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/bangrt2.gif

Kendras

09-03-17, 11:34 AM

:Kaleun_Wink:
This you had to fix Tourelle de la Plate alpha v12 and in the Roster folder, and I did not have to rack my brains.
:/\\!!

Sorry, no definitive nor official mod has been released yet, we are still working on it. So use at your own risks ! :D

:salute:

Kendras

09-04-17, 04:24 AM

For generic lighthouses, I think they should be very simple 3D models, and we should be able to rescale them easily (different separated parts, easy scaling on Y axis to change only the height). The texture applied to them should be easily tweaked in order to have different textures for the same model, depending on the lighthouse). For example, Le Four and Les Pierres Noires are very similar, but the texture must be different.

https://i.imgur.com/kw01tA4.png

https://i.imgur.com/VU6ylJL.png

Anvar1061

09-04-17, 04:57 AM

Sorry, no definitive nor official mod has been released yet, we are still working on it. So use at your own risks ! :D

:salute:

No problem! I am a tester of your mod. But, if I put everywhere UnitType = 408, I get CTD. So I change it in Mis.file to 407! So that you know.
Good luck!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Salute-1.gif

gap

09-04-17, 01:34 PM

No problem! I am a tester of your mod. But, if I put everywhere UnitType = 408, I get CTD. So I change it in Mis.file to 407! So that you know.
Good luck!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Salute-1.gif

@ Anvar1061

there are UnitType settings in three different files:

- LLH_LaPlate.cfg in Land/LLH_LaPlate folder
- LHLaPlate.cfg in Roster/France/Land
- Lighthouses.mis in SingleMissions/English/Lighthouses

The three of them need to be matched, or the game will CTD on mission loading.

Tourelle de la Plate alpha v12 contains its own testing mission. If you run that mission, everything should work just fine with no tweaks required. The mod should already be compatible with most megamods / mod loadouts, since we have made our best not to include in it stock files which are also modified by other mods (two important exceptions to this rule being Zones.cfg and Sh3.sdl though).
Of course you can still customize the mod, or test it with your own test mission, but then don't complain with me or Kendras if your game happens to crash. All in all, my suggestion is to consult us before you make any modifications, specifying what is your purpose and what mod soup you are using; I am pretty sure that in most cases we will spare you a good dose of brain racking... :D

Thank you for taking your time and test our work BTW. Your help is very much appreciated, but let's coordinate our relative efforts :salute:

gap

09-04-17, 02:34 PM

So, maybe the easiest way is to keep the current paint sheme. :)

I am afraid the yellow/black cardinal mark system has been introduced after WWII. In any case, the historical picture you have posted here a few days ago seems to discard it. Pity, because it looked very cool :O:

Plain (dark) green, plain red and red with a central black band, all are likely alternatives with their own pro's and con's. Unless we find information on the paint scheme actually used at the time, I have no real preference for one or the other. Most of my remarks on the subject are more me thinking out loud, than actually suggesting/discarding any of the aforementioned options :hmmm:

Thank you, that was a good exercice.

I am impressed by your work :up:

Now, we have to find an average shape for each group. :hmmm:

More than looking for an average shape, I would rather choose a lighthouse for each category which fits better the caracteristics of the group. I would then model it as accurately as possible, but stripping it down as much as possible of any non-shared feature. Any accessory/specific parts can be stored in the library file, and set as configurable equipments that we can switch on and off at wish.
The advantage of this work-flow is that, within one model, we get an accurate representaation of at least one of the lighthouses in the group, and a generic representation of all the others :know:

You return to Senegal ? :lol:

No long trips on the horizon, for now :)

For generic lighthouses, I think they should be very simple 3D models, and we should be able to rescale them easily (different separated parts, easy scaling on Y axis to change only the height).

In general, I think we should not waste too much of our time in customizing the generic models. If I had to focus on making a generic model to resamble more closely to a specific lighthouse, I would rather model that lighthouse, maybe using the generic model as template. :yep:

That said, I hope to use stripped-down versions of specific lighthouse models as generic models, setting them as "proxy clones" (a "proxy clone" is an unit pointing to the dat file of another unit). This is a method used in SHIV and 5 for representing some sibling aircraft/ship classes, but it should work in SHIII too. Using this method, unit type, equipments and textures can be easily customized for each copy of the main unit, but unfortunately there is not way to customize its height, unless we divided the main model in slices, the lower ones being set as configurable library equipments (but that would be a very unhortodox approach lol :O:)

The texture applied to them should be easily tweaked in order to have different textures for the same model, depending on the lighthouse). For example, Le Four and Les Pierres Noires are very similar, but the texture must be different.

No problem for textures, but remember that not always modern paint schemes are indicative of the historical ones :03: :up:

Kendras

09-04-17, 03:14 PM

I am afraid the yellow/black cardinal mark system has been introduced after WWII. In any case, the historical picture you have posted here a few days ago seems to discard it. Pity, because it looked very cool :O:
...
No problem for textures, but remember that not always modern paint schemes are indicative of the historical ones

I think, our method should be this one : we create lighthouses with colors and light signal of nowadays, unless we have precise informations about how it was during WWII.

More than looking for an average shape, I would rather choose a lighthouse for each category which fits better the caracteristics of the group. I would then model it as accurately as possible

In general, I think we should not waste too much of our time in customizing the generic models.

If I had to focus on making a generic model to resamble more closely to a specific lighthouse, I would rather model that lighthouse, maybe using the generic model as template.

I have put a green color on groups that we should focus on first. In these groups, a lighthouse's name is sometimes also green, meaning that this lighthouse should be modeled first, and used as generic lighthouse for all the lighthouses of the group.

gap

09-04-17, 03:37 PM

I think, our method should be this one : we create lighthouses with colors and light signal of nowadays, unless we have precise informations about how it was during WWII.

If I have to choose, I would rather paint La Plate red with a black band, and Le Chat plain red, even though we miss definitive clues that those were their paint schemes :)

I have put a green color on groups that we should focus on first. In these groups, a lighthouse's name is sometimes also green, meaning that this lighthouse should be modeled first, and used as generic lighthouse for all the lighthouses of the group.

:up:

I hope you have also taken into account the availability of models in 3DWarehouse, as they somehow ease my work...

Kendras

09-04-17, 04:42 PM

I hope you have also taken into account the availability of models in 3DWarehouse, as they somehow ease my work...

My choice is indicative, do as you wish. :)

gap

09-04-17, 04:56 PM

My choice is indicative, do as you wish. :)

Okay :salute:

gap

09-05-17, 02:29 AM

I think, our method should be this one : we create lighthouses with colors and light signal of nowadays, unless we have precise informations about how it was during WWII.

Maybe we could get in touch with Jean-Christophe Fichou on this subject. He is the author of the article Les phares français pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale that I pointed you to a while ago, co-author of the book Phares: histoire du balisage et de l'éclairage des côtes de France and owner of the website http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr, which is the best source of historical information on French lighthouses I have found so far.
I think no one better than him can provide us with the information we are looking for, or point us to the appropriate sources, and being an enthusiat himself, he could take an interest in our little project. What do you think?

His email address is: JCF@phares-de-france.com. My written French sucks, could you drop him a line explaining to him what we are doing and the information we are looking for? :O:

Kendras

09-05-17, 04:10 AM

Maybe we could get in touch with Jean-Christophe Fichou on this subject. He is the author of the article Les phares français pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale that I pointed you to a while ago, co-author of the book Phares: histoire du balisage et de l'éclairage des côtes de France and owner of the website http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr, which is the best source of historical information on French lighthouses I have found so far.
I think no one better than him can provide us with the information we are looking for, or point us to the appropriate sources, and being an enthusiat himself, he could take an interest in our little project. What do you think?

His email address is: JCF@phares-de-france.com. My written French sucks, could you drop him a line explaining to him what we are doing and the information we are looking for? :O:

Mmh, you gave me all the informations. I guess I have no choice ? :haha:

gap

09-05-17, 10:37 AM

Mmh, you gave me all the informations. I guess I have no choice ? :haha:

We have no choice. The very same future of SH games modding, is in your and Jean-Christophe Fichou's hands :D :O:

Anvar1061

09-05-17, 12:11 PM

@ Anvar1061

there are UnitType settings in three different files:

In single missions I forgot to do the necessary correction.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Mad-1.gif

gap

09-05-17, 12:38 PM

In single missions I forgot to do the necessary correction.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Mad-1.gif

If you use the mission included in the mod, you don't need to do any correction, unless for some reason you want to change unit type from 407 (as currently used by our lighthouse) to something else. :yep:

gap

09-11-17, 09:50 AM

Yesterday I found on Pinterest this beautiful construction plan of the 1839 Sein lighthouse, the one destroyed by the Germans in 1944 (click to enlarge):

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/02/8a/7c/028a7cdf1c32e1498c8d6849a07d38d3.jpg (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/8a/7c/028a7cdf1c32e1498c8d6849a07d38d3.jpg)

This lighthouse was not among our top priorities, but I couldn't help but model it:

http://i.imgur.com/ESa76uO.png

The model includes fully modelled lantern house interior, with a realistic representation of a Frensnel lens visible through the glasses. Everything is in scale*, including the Fresnel lens (http://uslhs.org/fresnel-lens-orders-sizes-weights-quantities-and-costs)**

* as you can read from the plan, the lighthouse was 43.46 m high, from the soil level to the focal plane

** going by the lighthouse range, I assumed its optic to be a 1st order lens.

I will admit that model's poly count is a bit too high, so some downsampling might be required, especially for the gallery railing and for lantern room's framework. Other than that, some optional 3d jobs that I might decide to do on the model are:

modelling the keeper house and the two radio-beacon metal towers built in the same site in 1935 (https://www.mairie-iledesein.com/phares.htm) (you can see them in one of the pictures below).
Any small corrections that might become necessary aftre comparing the model with historical pictures.
Splitting the model for damage simulation (I will do that after UV-mappi
ng)

Those are all the original pictures I have found so far:

http://www.leuchtturm-welt.net/HTML/FRPK/ORIGINAL/I_SEIN.JPG
https://www.mairie-iledesein.com/images/a_visiter/photos%20anciennes/ancien_phare.jpg http://enezsun.chez-alice.fr/Phares/Photos/Goulenez02nousdosalilenbArchiveThymeur.gif

Let me know if you find any other photographs/drawings :salute:

Kendras

09-11-17, 11:54 AM

Really great work, gap ! :yeah: :yep:

Kendras

09-22-17, 03:18 AM

Any news about La Vieille ?

:Kaleun_Binocular:

gap

09-22-17, 04:35 AM

Any news about La Vieille ?

:Kaleun_Binocular:

Working on it right now.
While we wait for it to be ready, here are two simple beacons I have modelled during the last few days:

la pyramide des Chaumes - Saint-Clément-des-Baleines, Île de Ré ( 46°14'36.67"N 1°33'12.32"W)

https://i.imgur.com/vZHZczC.png
https://www.en-charente-maritime.com/sites/en-charente-maritime.com/files/sit/data/photos/6b44a60371a78d9640033416d21eb869.JPG http://www.journal-ile-re.com/images/fck/re27-18b.jpg

...et l' amer de Plas ar Scoul - Île de Sein (48° 2'27.45"N 4°52'8.91"W)

https://i.imgur.com/7ab4ymq.png
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/8235593.jpg

They are daymarks (no lights). See if you can spot them with your binoculars :rotfl2:

Kendras

09-22-17, 05:59 AM

While we wait for it to be ready, here are two simple beacons I have modelled during the last few days:

la pyramide des Chaumes - Saint-Clément-des-Baleines, Île de Ré ( 46°14'36.67"N 1°33'12.32"W)

https://i.imgur.com/vZHZczC.png
https://www.en-charente-maritime.com/sites/en-charente-maritime.com/files/sit/data/photos/6b44a60371a78d9640033416d21eb869.JPG http://www.journal-ile-re.com/images/fck/re27-18b.jpg

...et l' amer de Plas ar Scoul - Île de Sein (48° 2'27.45"N 4°52'8.91"W)

https://i.imgur.com/7ab4ymq.png
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/8235593.jpg

Very nice work ! :yep:

They are daymarks (no lights). See if you can spot them with your binoculars :rotfl2:

No problem ! Send me the D/L link.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

gap

09-22-17, 07:34 AM

See if you can spot them with your binoculars :rotfl2:

No problem ! Send me the D/L link.

:haha:

I meant these binoculars (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2514241&postcount=629), not these ones:

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Torpedo_01/Binoculars_zpsuugjvg1r.jpg

Out of jokes: the two beacons are still in wings format, but you can start adding coordinates for them and for the Tourelle du Chat (48°01'26"N 4°48'51"W), both in our mis and Locations.cfg files :up:

Kendras

09-22-17, 07:43 AM

Out of jokes: the two beacons are still in wings format, but you can start adding coordinates for them and for the Tourelle du Chat (48°01'26"N 4°48'51"W), both in our mis and Locations.cfg files :up:

Not in Locations.cfg, because they are very small and local marks, and they should be visible on the navmap only when at visual range. :ping:

gap

09-22-17, 08:50 AM

Not in Locations.cfg, because they are very small and local marks, and they should be visible on the navmap only when at visual range. :ping:

Well, we might mark them on map with a small icon. Just a square or a triangle, depending on their shape, without text: :hmm2:

https://i.imgur.com/GkmftwP.png

https://i.imgur.com/BT7wbvQ.png

A thought: should we include in this mod lightvessels? :03:

Kendras

09-22-17, 09:17 AM

Well, we might mark them on map with a small icon. Just a square or a triangle, depending on their shape, without text: :hmm2:

https://i.imgur.com/GkmftwP.png

https://i.imgur.com/BT7wbvQ.png

Yes OK. I prefer the first version. :O:

A thought: should we include in this mod lightvessels? :03:

Well, if you want to model them, why not ? :)

gap

09-22-17, 09:54 AM

Yes OK. I prefer the first version. :O:

Me too :up:

Well, if you want to model them, why not ? :)

For a start, what do we know about French light vessels active during the 40's? Information on the French Wikipedia article (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateau-phare) on the topic is quite meagre...

Kendras

09-24-17, 04:22 AM

For a start, what do we know about French light vessels active during the 40's? Information on the French Wikipedia article (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateau-phare) on the topic is quite meagre...

From this article : https://www.cairn.info/revue-guerres-mondiales-et-conflits-contemporains-2001-4-page-109.htm

"Au cours de cette période pour le moins confuse, le Service des phares conserve un semblant d’organisation mais ne parvient pas à empêcher la destruction du bateau-feu Dick, coulé le 24 mai 1940 par les Junkers de la Luftwaffe, ni celle du phare d’Ault. Par ailleurs un certain nombre de destructions d’appareils sont prescrites par la Marine française au moment du « repli » dans la région du Nord et dans le port militaire de Cherbourg. On peut toutefois s’interroger sur l’absence coupable de précautions élémentaires pour protéger ce type de bâtiments particulièrement exposés et totalement désarmés : que fait le bateau-feu au large de Dunkerque quinze jours après l’offensive allemande ? À la suite de cet accident, les autres bateaux-feux quittent leurs postes pour se réfugier à La Rochelle."

"La flotte, elle aussi, est littéralement anéantie. En 1945, il ne reste plus qu’un seul bateau-feu en état de fonctionnement, le Havre-1912, et un autre en restauration, le Dick-1935. Une coque est récupérée à Anvers mais vendue à la ferraille en raison de son trop mauvais état ; une autre coque fut signalée aux Pays-Bas mais c’était une épave irréparable. Le Sandéttié, coulé dans le port de La Rochelle, exige des réparations de renflouement si considérables que l’on ne les entreprend pas."

gap

09-24-17, 10:33 AM

Information on the Dick light vessel is a bit confusing:

in the first excerpt from Les phares français pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale quoted by you, Fichou states that the ship was sunk by the Luftwaffe on 24 May 1940. The text seems to suggest that the ship was sunk off Dunkerque, but nothing is said about her station and/or homeport.

wrecksite.eu (http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?2647) has a French lightship named Dyck (with the "y") in its database. Built in 1935 and sunk during an air raid on 25/05/1940 (about the same date as stated by Fichou), the ship had a tonnage of 500 grt and she was 42.5 m long by 6.25 m wide. The accompanying text states:

Ship based in Calais (region Nord-Pas de Calais). Was attacked by 3 German planes at 4 n. m. NE of her home port by bomb and machine gun. She sank without casualties. The crew was rescued by the patrol Joseph Marie with abother fron a minesweeper sunk during the same attack

Information on wreck position is only accessible to wrecksite.eu's premium members.The coordinates 51°06'56N, 02°14'16E are given in a note as a possible alternative though, and they are compatible both with the attack location stated elsewhere in the same website (NE of Calais) and with the position suggested by Fichou (off Dunkirk). It is not clear if that was ship's work station too, despite the fact that she had Calais, not Dunkirk, as home port.

Last, this is a picture of the ship provided by the website:

https://i.imgur.com/yF5ar0G.jpg

The French Wikipedia article I had previously mentioned, under the paragraph Bateaux-feux encore visibles (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateau-phare#Bateaux-feux_encore_visibles), mentions a Havre III lightship built as Dyck in 1935 and stationed 7 miles S of Cap de la Hève until 1981. Original text:

Le bateau-feu français Havre III (ex-Dyck), également au Havre, se visite depuis sa restauration ; il a été construit en 1935 et affecté au Havre en 1948 à 7 milles au sud du cap de la Hève jusqu'en 1981, où il a été remplacé par une bouée-phare. Il est amarré dans le bassin Vauban, devant le centre commercial des Docks Vauban, au Havre (ancien musée maritime et portuaire).

Name and year of construction correspond to the ones reported by the previous source, but all the rest is a mismatch.

bateaux-fecamp.fr (https://www.bateaux-fecamp.fr/havreiiiex-dyck/) has pictures of a "Havre III ex Dyck" light ship built in 1935 whose dimensions are given as 42.50 m by 6.65 m. This ship was apparently decommissioned in 1981 and is now used as museum ship in Le Havre's port.

Ship name, year of construction and dimensions are in accordance with the ship listed in wrecksite.eu but, similar to what is reported by Wikipedia, this ship is still afloat.

Recent pictures show that, if not identical, the ship currently in Le Havre is very similar to the ship of the same name sunk off Dunkirk though:

https://i2.wp.com/www.bateaux-fecamp.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/havre-III-36.jpg?zoom=1.25&resize=600%2C450

More details on the "Havre III ex Dyck" are provided by worldlighthouses.org (http://www.worldlighthouses.org/Lighthship/France/Havre/havre.htm):

- active lightship from 1935 until 1983 -

Technical data

Length: 42,50 m
Beam: 6,25 m
Draught: 4,60 m
Displacement: 523 tons

Year of construction: 1935
Shipyard: FCM in Havre-Graville, France
Material: steel
Elevation: 15 m
Range: 17 sm
Crew: 8 men changing every 15 days

History

1935 commissioned
1935-1939 Dunkerque station
1939-1945 during WWII withdrawn and sent to La Pallice
1949-1981 Le Havre station
1981 sent for automation
1981-1983 Le Havre station

Ship name, technical data and year of commissioning are in accordance with all the previous sources, but the ship is said to have been moved for the durion of the war from Dunkirk to La Pallice (La Rochelle) and to have been sent to Le Havre in 1949. This is something not mentioned neither by worldlighthouses.org nor by wikipedia (which, on turn, states Cap de la Hève as ship's station until 1981), but it might partly be in accordance with Fichou, where he states that after the sinking of the Dick, all the other French light vessels were withdrawn from service and moved to La Rochelle.

Last: in your second quote Fichou mentions a 1935 light vessel named Dick (with the "i", not the "y") being restored in 1945 (probably after the end of the war). He doens't say that she is the same vessel that he had reported elsewhere in the same paper as sunk in May 1940, but that's a likely assumption.

Summing up, we can conclude that:

there were two sister or nearly-sister light ships with almost identical names, both built the same year, one of them being stationed in the Calais/Dunkerque area and being sunk in May 1940, the other dispatched off cap de la Hève until the sinking of her sister, when she was withdrawn from service and sheltered in La Pallice until the end of the conflict, at which point she was restaured/modernized, renamed Havre, and re-stationed to Le Havre. This conclusion would assume several coincidences (too many to be likely). Those might explain the many contradictions between the various sources (they might have mixed up the histories of the two vessels)...

An alternative, and more realistic, explaination is that the Dick and the Dyck/Havre III are actually the same vessel, commissioned in 1935, registered in Calais, stationed off Dunkerque during the first part of the conflict, sunk in 1940 and salvaged/restored in 1945. What is curious, is that none of the sources mentioned above seems to be aware of this salvaging that might provide the trait d'union between the Dyck and the Havre III :hmm2:

Kendras

09-24-17, 04:09 PM

:rotfl2:

gap

09-24-17, 05:41 PM

:rotfl2:

Do you find it funny, Whatson? :O:

https://orig00.deviantart.net/23a0/f/2016/293/c/8/sherlock_snoopy_by_bradsnoopy97-dalm5e3.jpg

Kendras

09-24-17, 07:12 PM

Well, right, this deserves a complete investigation. :O: :hmmm: What a mess in these (this?) ships' story!... :k_confused:

gap

09-25-17, 07:51 AM

Well, right, this deserves a complete investigation. :O: :hmmm: What a mess in these (this?) ships' story!... :k_confused:

Yes, a real mess, and I have discovered why: those ships, as commissioned, were often named after the sandbank / shoal that they were inteded for, but it was common practice to change their designation name when, for any reason, they had to be changed of station, the new (unofficial) name being painted on both sides of the hull.
Apparently, the vessel sunk in 1940 that Fichou and wrecksite.eu are referring to, was built in 1921 as Sandettié and at the time of her sinking she was the relief (=reserve) lightvessel of the bank bringing the same name.

http://images.mesdiscussions.net/pages14-18/mesimages/6368/Numeriser%20338.jpg

On the other hand, the museum ship currently moored in Le Havre with the name of Havre III (that all the pictures and technical data I posted yesterday refer to), is the real Dyck built in 1935, used as primary lightship of the same sandbank at the outbreak of WWII (thence the confusion), and withdrwan from service shortly after the sinking of her "sister".

http://www.lightphotos.net/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_le_havre.jpg

More details on the Dyck (1935) available here (http://www.derbysulzers.com/shipdyck.html)
More details on the lightships off Dunkerque available here (http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Forum-Pages-d-Histoire-aviation-marine/marine-1914-1918/bateaux-feux-dunkerque-sujet_3818_1.htm)

Mistery solved :03:

gap

09-25-17, 08:18 AM

The plans of another French lightship named Sandettié:

https://i.imgur.com/rVCNZ9B.jpg
http://images.mesdiscussions.net/pages14-18/mesimages/6368/Numeriser%20339.jpg

This one was built in 1902 and sank in 1933, but its hull shape shouldn't be too dissimilar from the one of the more modern Dyck (1935), as they both were a "deep keel" design. Source: https://www.facebook.com/PharesdeFrance/posts/667333483286980

Kendras

09-25-17, 10:36 AM

Mistery solved :03:

:Kaleun_Applaud:

MLF

10-11-17, 04:56 AM

Returning to La Tourelle de La Plate :)

I am afraid the yellow/black cardinal mark system has been introduced after WWII. In any case, the historical picture you have posted here a few days ago seems to discard it. Pity, because it looked very cool :O:

Plain (dark) green, plain red and red with a central black band, all are likely alternatives with their own pro's and con's. Unless we find information on the paint scheme actually used at the time, I have no real preference for one or the other. Most of my remarks on the subject are more me thinking out loud, than actually suggesting/discarding any of the aforementioned options :hmmm:

I emailed the Service de l'Inventaire du Patrimoine Culturel Direction du Tourisme, du Patrimoine et des Voies navigables who replied with a b/w photograph from 1950 (possibly has already been seen on this thread) which shows the tower with a dark top and light coloured bottom. They also referred me to the following web site:-

http://www.dirm.nord-atlantique-manche-ouest.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/sites-des-subdivisions-des-phares-balises-a62.html

From that web site I emailed the address given there and received a reply and a scan of a notice to mariners dated 31/03/1922 basically stating that the light, which had been reported extinguished, was now back up and working.

There is also a section on the notice - Renseignements (Information) which states the following:-

Nature:- Permanent gas light
Shape:- Turret painted in red surmounted by a reservoir and a lantern
Colour of Light: Green

As, I believe, this department is responsible for the painting of these light towers, this is about as close as we will possibly get to knowing the colour of the tower

Regards,

MLF

gap

10-11-17, 08:35 AM

Returning to La Tourelle de La Plate :)...

Merci beacoup MLF,

your help and the kind support of the French authorities that you have been in touch with, are invaluable!

Summing up:

1911:

tower color not specified
steady green light

(source: Jean-Cristophe Fichou (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/plate-du-raz.html), Les Phares de France (website)).

1922:

tower painted red
green light, period not specified

(source: notice (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=2380&d=1507715703) by the Subdivision des phares et balises de Brest)

1950:

dark tower (black or red? Maybe fouling/seaweed at the bottom?) with a central light band (white or yellow?)
light color and period not specified

(source: picture (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=2381&d=1507716840) by the Service de l'Inventaire du Patrimoine Culturel Direction du Tourisme, du Patrimoine et des Voies navigables, another picture (http://i.imgur.com/GApJLpD.png) posted by Kendras (year unknown))

All in all, I think I will opt for the red tower and green steady light configuration, i.e. the best documented, though it might have changed before the outbreak of the war...

Any thoughts?

MLF

10-11-17, 09:11 AM

gap

10-11-17, 10:36 AM

hi gap,

Another picture from delcampe.net which shows La Plate - no dates though. I think it is showing the tower all red as per the 1922 notice?

I think you are right re. opting for the all red config (between wars). The 1950's one would be a post-war, and the cardinal would be post 1971 (or there-abouts)

Regards,

MLF

Another good picture, and it clearly shows that the dark portion near the waterline is just algae!

At this point, the 1950's paint scheme might be interpetrated as a North cardinal mark (black on top and yellow near the bottom), though the current West mark usage makes much more sense in that position :hmm2:

Since we are at it, let me know if you find anything about the nearby Tourelle du Chat. This beacon is currently painted as a South cardinal mark and I think it has been recently restored, but some pre-restoration pictures show traces of what could be the remains of a previous red paint coat, especially evident near the base. I would be glad if we found pictorial or written confirmation of my suspects...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_YFAoCRGTDM/UY6d63Gj17I/AAAAAAAAMfk/gHzTZy7bU8w/s1600/DSC00035.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TCFs-T20G8U/UY6eI4g2x3I/AAAAAAAAMgE/Cwe8x_W2QgM/s1600/DSC00073-001.JPG

Kendras

10-11-17, 01:41 PM

Merci pour tes recherches, MLF ! :yeah:

MLF

10-12-17, 07:03 AM

I received a b/w photograph this morning from the same source as the Notice to Mariners I posted yesterday. It is a close up (very clear) of the Tourelle de La Plate from 1936 which shows the tower all in one colour. i have asked for permission to post it in this thread. I have also asked about La Tourelle du Chat.

Regards,

MLF

gap

10-12-17, 11:10 AM

MLF

10-13-17, 04:56 AM

I have received permission from Direction Interrégionale de la Mer Nord Atlantique-Manche Ouest to publish the photograph on this forum. All photographs are copyright © DIRM NAMO
From the email: "vous pouvez utiliser nos photos à partir du moment où vous indiquer le copyright suivant: © DIRM NAMO "

The person who has supplied these will look for info on La Tourelle du Chat at the beginning of next week:yep:. They have emailed a photo of Le Chat taken in 1935 but I think I will wait for more info before publishing here as it looks somewhat different to La Tourelle du Chat of today - still with 2 platforms but somewhat thinner. The internet seems rather sparse on info re this one.

The photo of La Tourelle de La Plate is from 1936.

Regards,

MLF

gap

10-13-17, 12:57 PM

I have received permission from Direction Interrégionale de la Mer Nord Atlantique-Manche Ouest to publish the photograph on this forum

...

The photo of La Tourelle de La Plate is from 1936.

Excellent picture. Please, say thanks to the people from Direction Interrégionale de la Mer Nord Atlantique-Manche Ouest, and show them our little project if you think it can please them. :D
From the new photograph it is clear that the original gas cylinder with the annexed light platform, looked quite different compared to the one we have in place in our model. Since we are at it, I think I will correct the small inaccuracy

The person who has supplied these will look for info on La Tourelle du Chat at the beginning of next week:yep:. They have emailed a photo of Le Chat taken in 1935 but I think I will wait for more info before publishing here as it looks somewhat different to La Tourelle du Chat of today - still with 2 platforms but somewhat thinner. The internet seems rather sparse on info re this one.

Yes, it is true: information on this lighthouse is a bit scarce. Neither Rowlett (https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/fns2.htm) nor Fichou (http://phares-de-france.pagesperso-orange.fr/phare/chat.html) say anything in their articles about any rebuilding or restucture of the tower which might confirm your impressions, but they might have missed this piece of information.
Anyway, my model of the lighthouse, based on recent pictures and on Fichou's drawing, is pretty much ready though its texture is still WIP. So far, it looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/36sEHSU.png

MLF

10-13-17, 01:30 PM

Excellent picture. Please, say thanks to the people from Direction Interrégionale de la Mer Nord Atlantique-Manche Ouest, and show them our little project if you think it can please them. :D
I sent screenshots of the Tourelle de la Plate (V12) in game:yep:

I found this link on the internet - don't know if you've seen it?

http://www.leuchtturm-welt.net/HTML/FRPK/FR.HTM

Has another photo of La Plate (attached)

I've attached also the picture I received of Tourelle du Chat (1935 when it was finished) but I'm not sure- as I said it looks different and there isn't a rock showing (high water??/). I wonder if it was too thin so an outer skin of stone was added? We'll see what they can find next week:03:

https://i.imgur.com/36sEHSU.png

Your model looks excellent.:up:

gap

10-13-17, 06:27 PM

I sent screenshots of the Tourelle de la Plate (V12) in game:yep:

:up:

I found this link on the internet - don't know if you've seen it?

http://www.leuchtturm-welt.net/HTML/FRPK/FR.HTM

Has another photo of La Plate (attached)

Another excellent picture indeed. No, I had not seen it before, I wish I had :doh:

I've attached also the picture I received of Tourelle du Chat (1935 when it was finished) but I'm not sure- as I said it looks different and there isn't a rock showing (high water??/). I wonder if it was too thin so an outer skin of stone was added? We'll see what they can find next week:03:

Yep, it looks like a kitten... the small brother of Le Chat :O:

The tower missing its granite base and having no rocks around it, are not a big surprise: as you said, the picture might have been taken during hide tide.

What is strange, is the apparent weathering of the paintwork, especially around the base where there seem to be algae encrusted on the concrete: in 1935 the tower had to look (almost) new

Also note the position of the door relative to the access ladder, and its big size compared to the rest of the gallery :hmmm:

Your model looks excellent.:up:

But probably wrong, lol :D

Edit: Talking about Le Chat, Fichou says:

"autorisée par la D.M. du 7 janvier 1929. les travaux commencent en juin 1929 et sont totalement achevés en décembre 1936, après l'allumage du feu"

and, a bit below:

"28 août 1933 : feu à occultation toutes les 6 secondes"

That means that from 1933 to 1936, though being already in place and operational as a light, the tower might have been subject to improvements and possible reinforcements, but by 1935 it should have had gas cylinder and lantern already installed :yep:

Kendras

10-16-17, 02:52 AM

Why are you trying to be so precise ? The only important thing is to know if there was or not a lighthouse for each place. If it's too hard to find info about the aspect of the building and light color/sequence during the 1940s, let's use the nowadays characteristics. Moreover, the lights will be switched off during the war, so why taking so much care about them ?

If you agree, after La Vieille, La Plate and Le Chat are finished, I would like to focus on Le Four (which can be used on several places).

:Kaleun_Wink:

gap

10-18-17, 08:20 AM

Why are you trying to be so precise ?

I suppose more or less for the same reason that induced VonDos redoing two or three times, and with our blessings, Queen Marie's hull and superstructure :D

While I agree that we shouldn't let our common love for details (and the crhonic scarcity of information) to delay our working plan, I really think we should aim at a reasonably high level of historical accuracy to attein a decent (and not so "precise", after all) result and, above all, I don't see why we shouldn't make the best of the information MLF has patiently digged for us.

After all, it's our hobby: let's take our time on it, and enjoy it in the meanwhile :)

If you agree, after La Vieille, La Plate and Le Chat are finished, I would like to focus on Le Four (which can be used on several places).

:Kaleun_Wink:

I like it, but I think the list of WIP lighthouses and beacons that I currently have on my hd is longer than the ones you have mentioned above.

The following lighthouse are nearly ready and waiting to be imported in game:

tourelle de la Plate (damage-splitted, but I have to repaint it and to redo its gas cylinder/lantern platform);
Phare de la Vieille;
tourelle du Chat (but works on it are suspended until updated on it by MLF);
grand phare de l'île de Sein

Moreover, the following day beacons are game ready:

amer de Plas-ar-Scoul;
pyramide des Chaumes.

In additon to thos models I have a French lightvessel, the Dyck, on the making, though with a low priority. This is what I have got ready so far:

https://i.imgur.com/rnzOaJl.png

As you can see, even though I have kept relatively silent on this mod during the last few weeks, waiting or looking for new information to become available, I have not been idle on the rest :03:

Kendras

10-21-17, 02:48 AM

I suppose more or less for the same reason that induced VonDos redoing two or three times, and with our blessings, Queen Marie's hull and superstructure :D

While I agree that we shouldn't let our common love for details (and the crhonic scarcity of information) to delay our working plan, I really think we should aim at a reasonably high level of historical accuracy to attein a decent (and not so "precise", after all) result and, above all, I don't see why we shouldn't make the best of the information MLF has patiently digged for us.

After all, it's our hobby: let's take our time on it, and enjoy it in the meanwhile :)

:up:

I like it, but I think the list of WIP lighthouses and beacons that I currently have on my hd is longer than the ones you have mentioned above.

The following lighthouse are nearly ready and waiting to be imported in game:

tourelle de la Plate (damage-splitted, but I have to repaint it and to redo its gas cylinder/lantern platform);
Phare de la Vieille;
tourelle du Chat (but works on it are suspended until updated on it by MLF);
grand phare de l'île de Sein

Moreover, the following day beacons are game ready:

amer de Plas-ar-Scoul;
pyramide des Chaumes.

Waiting for them ! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon7.png

Anyway, my model of the lighthouse, based on recent pictures and on Fichou's drawing, is pretty much ready though its texture is still WIP. So far, it looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/36sEHSU.png

In additon to those models I have a French lightvessel, the Dyck, on the making, though with a low priority. This is what I have got ready so far:

https://i.imgur.com/rnzOaJl.png

As you can see, even though I have kept relatively silent on this mod during the last few weeks, waiting or looking for new information to become available, I have not been idle on the rest :03:

beautiful ! :yeah:

... as always :yep:

PS : texture of Le Chat looks enough good for me ! :D And I'm happy that you gave up on green algae ! :O:

Kendras

10-29-17, 03:10 PM

I like it, but I think the list of WIP lighthouses and beacons that I currently have on my hd is longer than the ones you have mentioned above.

The following lighthouse are nearly ready and waiting to be imported in game:

tourelle de la Plate (damage-splitted, but I have to repaint it and to redo its gas cylinder/lantern platform);
Phare de la Vieille;
tourelle du Chat (but works on it are suspended until updated on it by MLF);
grand phare de l'île de Sein

Moreover, the following day beacons are game ready:

amer de Plas-ar-Scoul;
pyramide des Chaumes.

In additon to thos models I have a French lightvessel, the Dyck, on the making, though with a low priority.

You forgot something :

1) As I told you a while back, the Düne (Helgoland) leading lights are 100% ready. I know that at this stage you are mostly focused on French lights and that the Helgoland-Düne islands are poorly implemented in SHIII, but nonetheless I think they might make a nice addition to the game. Moreover, importing them might provide us with some additional insight on the best importing method, which will come in handy when we'll be ready to implement other lighthouses. If you are on it, I can import the models in a set of SH files, and send them your way

:Kaleun_Wink:

gap

10-30-17, 01:14 PM

You forgot something

You are right :D

the_frog

10-30-17, 05:39 PM

Hello folks,

I like that thread and the project.

gap, are you going into the ship building business? :up:
I appreciate ship models with realistic hulls :D

Cheers

gap

10-31-17, 02:22 PM

Hello folks,

I like that thread and the project.

gap, are you going into the ship building business? :up:
I appreciate ship models with realistic hulls :D

Hi the_frog
I appreciate your appreciations. :D

This is the first ship model I build from scratch, do you like the full keel + bilge keels design?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/61862124.jpg

Probably the hull shape is not the most realistic, but I don't think I could do anything better having only a set of measures and a few pictures and a set of pictures to start from

the_frog

10-31-17, 03:52 PM

Hello gap,

even if not built to faired lines plans, the hull, look much, much more like a real ship hull than most of what SH3 offered.

Indeed, that lightship has striking keel features. A nice project. Hope to see it float on the SH3 ocean one day :D

Cheers

Kendras

11-01-17, 02:27 PM

A nice project. Hope to see it float on the SH3 ocean one day :D

Mee too ! :yep:

1mPHUNit0

11-03-17, 10:14 AM

Kendras can we use some of those yet?
I have sh3 +gwx gold....and sh3 + wac5
By the way.....great work, fantastic
this smells a very good taste

Kendras

11-03-17, 12:46 PM

Kendras can we use some of those yet?
I have sh3 +gwx gold....and sh3 + wac5
By the way.....great work, fantastic
this smells a very good taste

Hello ! I think there is not a lot of time to wait before having some nice lighthouses for the SH3 environment. The first one, La Plate, was nearly ready, until we discover that the color was not historical. Then, other lighthouses are on the way ! It all depends on the artist of this thread : Gap. If it only depended on me, there would be probably already half a dozen of new lighthouses available and placed at the proper locations. But Gap is so more talented than me, I can wait (now for one entire year !) ! :sunny:

The new light ship is a nice project, but I would give priority to lighthouses first, at least the standard models.

:Kaleun_Salute:

Aquelarrefox

11-03-17, 04:11 PM

Hello ! I think there is not a lot of time to wait before having some nice lighthouses for the SH3 environment. The first one, La Plate, was nearly ready, until we discover that the color was not historical. Then, other lighthouses are on the way ! It all depends on the artist of this thread : Gap. If it only depended on me, there would be probably already half a dozen of new lighthouses available and placed at the proper locations. But Gap is so more talented than me, I can wait (now for one entire year !) ! :sunny:

The new light ship is a nice project, but I would give priority to lighthouses first, at least the standard models.

:Kaleun_Salute:

Incredible work, I want to install in my game, I post if you realise it place make a separate files to much with any alternate version of files, I'm using aterrain, land and script layers from wac5 into nygm.

Wich sorrycoast have been done actually?

MLF

03-20-18, 02:32 PM

Bumpety-bump :03:

Any future on this one at all? A lot of good hard work went into this by all and it has died a death.:dead:

Regards,

MLF

gap

03-24-18, 08:42 AM

Any future on this one at all? A lot of good hard work went into this by all and it has died a death.:dead:

Hi MLF

I have just replied an e-mail by kendras on this subject. As you might have noticed I was busy with real life during the last few months and, unfortunately, kendras got his subsim account blocked in the meanwhile, I ignore how.
The good news is that both I and kendras want to keep on our work on this WIP project. Though still in a stand-by state, all the unrealeased material that we have been working so far and that will be part of the final mod, is still on our hard drives and waiting for better days which, I hope, are not too far away.

Let's keep in touch.

:Kaleun_Salute:

P.S: I have made some space on my PM box :03:

MLF

03-28-18, 10:57 AM

hi gap,
Thanks for the reply. It's nice to know the project isn't dead, just "resting" :up:

:Kaleun_Salute:
regards,

MLF

P.s i'm afraid my source in France didn't come back with any more info. I didn't want to press for more as she had been very helpful.

gap

03-28-18, 11:48 AM

hi gap,
Thanks for the reply. It's nice to know the project isn't dead, just "resting" :up:

Definitely so. Hopefully Kendras will be back to subsim in a short time, and I will resume my work on this project. I have many semi-finished French lighthouses and even a lightvessel waiting to come to life :D

P.s i'm afraid my source in France didn't come back with any more info. I didn't want to press for more as she had been very helpful.

No problem, she has already been very helpful. I hope you said thanks to her from my part too :up:

Dagoth_Ur

03-31-18, 02:45 AM

Very interesting project :D

If you need more work or informations about lighthouse all over the world, try this -> http://www.lightphotos.net/photos/

If you want to see old maps, look here -Ahnenerbe WideGui or http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=232178

"The source" have some old kriegsmarine maps (Wilhelmshaven 1938 for exemple)

gap

03-31-18, 10:07 AM

JAFO-

05-04-18, 11:51 PM

This project looks amazing!

I'm very much looking forward to seeing it one day. Great work, people!

gap

05-13-18, 11:23 AM

This project looks amazing!

I'm very much looking forward to seeing it one day. Great work, people!

Thank you very much JAFO- :salute:

since January Kendras has had problems logging in on subsim, and this project has been pun on stand-by. Hopefully all the problems will be solved in a near future, but in any case it is Kendras' and my intention to keep on working on this mod soon :up:

ArnoldR

11-16-18, 09:25 AM

Is this thing dead??? I can't see any download link???..... :06:

Anvar1061

11-16-18, 09:53 AM

Is this thing dead??? I can't see any download link???..... :06:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Wink.gif
WIP
http://kendras-sh3-modding.forumactif.com/

JeromeHeretic

11-20-18, 07:47 AM

Hello Kendras, i wasn't there long time and now i found this mod. I don't know in what state your work is, but if it can help you, you can use my old data for lighthouses. This data are taken from real positions of real lighthouses from whole world. After that i reduced number of lighthouses for some smaller amount (so for example i completely removed lighthouses from west coast of America, because are irelevant for atlantic war...) and fix some positions to corespond to SH map.
Here is my table: http://www.ucw.cz/~jerome/reduced.html

You can see there real coordinates and coordinates counted to SH too.
But be careful, at the bottom of table are aded coordinates of buoys and lightboats from GWX too. They are marked in row groups as GWX_SCR.

JeromeHeretic

11-20-18, 08:08 AM

Ah yes, and there is Bell Rock lighthouse too. If i good remember, so in SH map there is deep wather in position of Bell Rock lighthouse and i didn't know how to modify terrain. So only think i was able to do was, that i add this lighthouse to game and put it some 2 meters under sea level, so it was not floating in the air, when there was big waves, but in fact you was able dive under that lighthouse. I was not reading this whole thread, so i don't know if you can manage this, so get it just like a note from my memory, which is full of holes like an swiss cheese. :-)
(But i wanted to have this lighthouse in game, because this lighthouse is real legend...)

JeromeHeretic

11-20-18, 12:45 PM

I found my old questions and some notes about lighthouses to perfectly fit to terrain. It is in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=206346&page=2

And some note about lighthouse table: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2158672&postcount=172

There is written, that SH coordinates are modified to fit SH map, and real coordinates are real coordinates of real lighthouses. But remember, that when i'm talking about SH3 world, i mean GWX map (there are some modifications - Kiel canal for example, which in vanila SH3 are not... )

Seaowl

12-30-18, 06:43 AM

A few days ago I stumbled upon a great website concerning lighthouses and sea marks at the north- and balticsea coasts.
Check for example the information about Kiel and Heligoland.
Hoping that this cool project is still alive and since I know no better place, I will post the link here: www.baken-net.de

JeromeHeretic

12-30-18, 10:54 AM

@ Kendras

I have noticed that Hitman had created a 20-km environment mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1108824#post1108824), but unfortunately the link is down :-?

I know, that im answering about a year old post, but im reading this thread from first post...
If you want 20 km environment, install M.E.P. 6 (im not sure, but i think it was in v. 4.2 and later)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=229333&page=4

gap

12-30-18, 12:24 PM

Hi guys, sorry for the late replies,

unfortunately Kendras can't answer any longer on this thread since, apparently, an infraction by him was sanctioned with what now seems a permanent ban from subsim. You can get in touch with him on his personal forum:

http://kendras-sh3-modding.forumactif.com/

Since our last update here, we have made little progress with this mod: the Ile-de-Sein was added to the SHIII world (though I think Kendras wasn't too happy with its last layout), new lighthouse icons have been created, and together with several unfinished lighthouse models, I have worked on a port light model that I sent to Kendras for him to add it to the French ports. After that, there was a long stand-by caused by real life engagements.

As some of you already know, I have now started a new project for SH5 which deals mostly with therrain/tree textures, but among its features there are also terrain shape improvements, more realistic ports, and the modelling of natural and human-made landmarks, including daymarks and lighthouses. I am in constant touch with Kendras, and be sure that whatever I do will be passed on to Kendras for porting to SHIII :yep:

@ Seaowl:

Glad to read your comments on this thread too!

@ JeromeHeretic:

Thank you for your information mate. I will save it for future reference. In the meanwhile you might find interesting the following website gathering information on lighthouses worldwide:

https://www.ibiblio.org/lighthouse/

:salute:

JeromeHeretic

12-30-18, 05:22 PM

Registration to forum doesn't work to me. E-mail with code never come...

BTW: Also exist 20km unfficial patch for GWX: ftp://Maik:Woelfe@hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/HITMAN/GWX_-_20km_Atmosphere_Unood.7z

Try it too... Im not sure now, but i have strong feeling, that in one, or in second environment is not changed values for visibility in binoculars and so (it's in zones.cfg i think.. not sure when i try remember now).
So... in case of some problems you can diff this files and get correct one, or just change needed values.

And THX for that link, but i already know it. :-) I have ready list with about 2000 lighthouses (but still there are bugs, i know it and slowly repairing) and written scripts for automatic generating of LND.mis, locations.cfg, SCR.mis. (because script recognition lightouses and lightboats)
I'm only waiting if you both will finish some more lighthouses, so i can generate world with different lighthouses on different places. Now i'm using just one lighthouse and GWX lightboats.

When we are talking about this, i have few ideas, but i don't know how to do it. Sure it is possible, but maybe it is needed for every mutation add new dat file to game, so only some reduced amount of variations is possible to add to game.
But if it is possible, i think it will be enough even in this reduced form.

I was looking to previously posted page: http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse9.html and i got idea, that i like to have:

- Lighthouse with red light (as a marker to port side of route into the ports)
- I think, that "common" lighthouse used in game can be lighthouse which i have, with normal, long blinking white light.
But on the long coastal lines, where are a lot of lighthouses in some distances i want sometimes some specific lighthouse, from
which i can recognize where exactly i am. I know it already from transatlantic travels, that error of my position after transatlantic route is so big, that even if i find a lighthouse on horizont, im never sure which one it is...
So... idea is have few "morse" blinking lighthouses. I think that 4 "bit" table must be enough for everyone.
So when we look into morse code table, there are this possibilities for lighthouses:
B -...

C -.-.

F ..-.

H ....

L .---

Q --.-

V ...-

X -..-

Y -.--

Z --..
With lighthouse which i already have (lets call him "slow blinker") and when can be speed of blinking changed to quick, we have table of 12 unique lights (+ red one)!

So when i get the markings from that page, we can have FL, Q, MoB, MoC, MoF, MoH, MoL, MoQ, MoV, MoX, MoY, MoZ and Iso R.
Now question for you is, if it is possible? (Im sure just only about changing color of light, even if i don't know how to do it.)

EDIT:
Ah yes, i almost forget. In GWX are tugboats near lightboats. This is not looking much realistic, but it is great idea, because when you go on high TC and watch crew see a ship, TC falls to 1, so you know that you are near that lightboat!
Would be nice, if can be implemented, that watch crew reactions on lighthouse is the same as for ship. (Daesn't matter if crew say "ship spotted", it's not important that lighthouse is not a boat, is important, that i know about it and that TC falls to 1)
Is this possible? (Im afraid not... because it is "land unit", but better ask, than be silent and lost this functionality if it is possible)

bigboywooly

12-31-18, 03:26 AM

Yeah I put the tugs near lightships as they are not noticed by crew so saving you collision.

You could make a lighthouse model and class it whatever you like. The icebergs get spotted as a ship so you don't hit them. Not ideal but otherwise at high tc you run the risk of collision

Jeff-Groves

01-01-19, 01:09 PM

- Lighthouse with red light (as a marker to port side of route into the ports)
- I think, that "common" lighthouse used in game can be lighthouse which i have, with normal, long blinking white light.
But on the long coastal lines, where are a lot of lighthouses in some distances i want sometimes some specific lighthouse, from
which i can recognize where exactly i am. I know it already from transatlantic travels, that error of my position after transatlantic route is so big, that even if i find a lighthouse on horizont, im never sure which one it is...
So... idea is have few "morse" blinking lighthouses. I think that 4 "bit" table must be enough for everyone.
So when we look into morse code table, there are this possibilities for lighthouses:
B -...

C -.-.

F ..-.

H ....

L .---

Q --.-

V ...-

X -..-

Y -.--

Z --..
With lighthouse which i already have (lets call him "slow blinker") and when can be speed of blinking changed to quick, we have table of 12 unique lights (+ red one)!

So when i get the markings from that page, we can have FL, Q, MoB, MoC, MoF, MoH, MoL, MoQ, MoV, MoX, MoY, MoZ and Iso R.
Now question for you is, if it is possible? (Im sure just only about changing color of light, even if i don't know how to do it.)

You'd need to play with the particles settings on the light houses to try to get the morse code thing.
Each Light house can be done separately so it should be possible.
I'd suggest leaving the rotating white light alone and adding your morse code blinker as a separate light with no rotation.
On top of the Light House perhaps as a red blinking light?

Or maybe a small light near the base to simulate someone on shore sending you a signal?
Danged spies!

JeromeHeretic

01-01-19, 02:52 PM

You'd need to play with the particles settings on the light houses to try to get the morse code thing.

Blah... i don't know this stuff. Im glad, that now i realise reverse direction in animation... that's why i was asking for it and not to do it by myself.
But THX for info... now i know it's possible.

Or maybe a small light near the base to simulate someone on shore sending you a signal?
Danged spies!

I mean not as small light, but as main light of lighthouse. It is common, that lighthouses are blinking this codes.

Jeff-Groves

01-01-19, 02:56 PM

I have a separate light house saved from the Game.
IF I get time amongst all the other stuff I'll play with it and see what I can do. Could come in handy added to other projects I have.

gap

01-01-19, 07:38 PM

And THX for that link, but i already know it. :-)

:up:

Glad that you know it already. Very few lighthouse are not listed in the Lighthouse Directory, and it also provides general information and pictures of the active lights, as well as verbal and pictorial reference (when possible) of currently inactive or no longer existing lighthouses.

When we are talking about this, i have few ideas, but i don't know how to do it. [...]
have few "morse" blinking lighthouses. I think that 4 "bit" table must be enough for everyone.

Is this possible? (Im afraid not... because it is "land unit", but better ask, than be silent and lost this functionality if it is possible)

Yes, it is possible. As said by Jeff, by playing with light particle settings we can mimic even complex flashing schemes. Kendras is a master on this subject, but with some time and the help of a calculator, I can also handle this type of effects. The one lights that we couldn't find a way to reproduce so far, are sector lights: i.e. light beams that can only be seen when looking at them from some angles...

Terrain objects are not configurable, but if lighthouse models are set as land units rather than terrain objects, and if different light halos are stored in a library file, we can then link each lighthouse to any tipe of light effect (or even multiple effects) by use of equipment nodes. There are several advantages in this type of approach:

- Just like air and sea units, land units are handled by the AI; they can see and be seen by other units, attacked, and destroyed.

- they can be made to appear or disappear from the game based on date, simulating the destruction of some of them during the war.

- their lights, set as any other equipment, can be configured by date, simulating the change in usage (or the darkening) of some lights during the war.