Ferguson

[Oberon]

Doesn't make pleasant reading for law enforcement in the area.

Aye, that's the trouble when you get rotten eggs in a basket, makes the whole thing stink. Even if it's not representative of the whole basket, it still puts people off buying those eggs. :nope:

[AngusJS]

Summer of 2012. A 32-year-old African-American was cooling off in his car after a basketball game in a public park.
What comes next is a series of civil rights violations described in the Justice Department report that resulted in the man losing his job as a federal contractor.
A Ferguson police officer demands the man's Social Security number and identification before accusing him of being a pedophile and ordering the man out of his car.
When the officer asked to search the man's car, the 32-year-old refused, invoking his constitutional right.
The response? The officer arrested the man at gunpoint, slapped him with eight charges, including for not wearing a seat belt, despite the fact that he was sitting in a parked car. The officer also cited him for "making a false declaration" because he gave his name as 'Mike' instead of 'Michael.'
"The man told us that, because of these charges, he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government that he had held for years," the report says.http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/ferguson-justice-report-shocking/


Thank goodness our men in blue are protecting us from the basketball player/pedophile threat. Do whatever it takes, boys! Falsely arrest them and walk all over their civil liberties, if you must!

:/\\!!

Pathetic. This is why people don't trust cops - many of them don't deserve it.

[Jimbuna]

Aye, that's the trouble when you get rotten eggs in a basket, makes the whole thing stink. Even if it's not representative of the whole basket, it still puts people off buying those eggs. :nope:

Yeah, experienced some of that first hand over the years :yep:

[Oberon]

Yeah, experienced some of that first hand over the years :yep:

Aye, I figured you might well have. The UK police has had its own fair share of bad publicity, followed by restructuring and retraining, followed by another bit of bad publicity and so on and so forth.
Funny how it usually co-incises with government intentions, isn't it? :03:

[Jimbuna]

Aye, I figured you might well have. The UK police has had its own fair share of bad publicity, followed by restructuring and retraining, followed by another bit of bad publicity and so on and so forth.
Funny how it usually co-incises with government intentions, isn't it? :03:

Rgr that...very often the case, the tail trying to wag the dog :yep:

[Stealhead]

Well a police force is a microcosm of society and internal problems are a reflection of society as a whole. Some cops in the same squad may dislike each other or even fight each other like these guys http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nP5tX096BiY not really a fight but a good cop keeping a bad cop and an upset suspect under control.

I have only one "bad" encounter with the police once when I was on leave from the military and forgot that unlike Germany in Florida (and most states) having an open container of alcohol is illegal. So in this case one cop was a jerk the other was cool. I did not get in any trouble of course I watched my tounge.

The duty is supposed to be protect and serve and to uphold the law no matter who the person is.

Of course I can only say what I personally have experienced as true and unbiased.Of course I have heard things which I deem to be true from current or former LE about bad cops that would make me cautious. For example in school a friends father was a deputy he warned us in the next county that they very often planted illegal drugs even to avoid driving a certain roads.

[Von Tonner]

Ok, the department hears the community on its complaints, does an extensive investigation, identifies problems and unacceptable behaviour in some of its personel resulting in dismissals, resignations and puts forward a working solution to address grievances of the community.

Communities response? They hold a protest to demonstrate that they are not satisfied with the resignations and then shoot two cops.

And then some people still ask why the police dont "pussy-foot" when dealing with certain people or communities.


"Before the shooting Thursday, some at the protest were chanting to show they weren't satisfied with the resignations of Jackson and City Manager John Shaw, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.

In addition to Jackson, Ferguson's court clerk was fired last week and two police officers resigned. The judge who oversaw the court system also resigned, and the City Council on Tuesday agreed to a separation agreement with the city manager."

http://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-post-dispatch-2-officers-shot-ferguson-055552082.html

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/jat9/ferguson_zpsxgejvtmz.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/jat9/media/ferguson_zpsxgejvtmz.jpg.html)

[Oberon]

I think really that it's gone beyond the point of no return now. Although one should not tar a group of people for the action of a minority, it's clear that no matter what the local PD do there will be no satisfaction, and to be honest I suspect that only the closure and restructuring of the local PD will cause any acceptance, and perhaps might be the best solution.

[Betonov]

They should send in the special forces.
I'm guessing people trust the army and they have the most control over their weapons.

[Oberon]

They should send in the special forces.
I'm guessing people trust the army and they have the most control over their weapons.

I believe they sent in the Guard a while back, back when it was likely to flare up. I doubt they will at the moment since the protests themselves are getting smaller as time goes on.

[Betonov]

A trigger happy grunt os no better than a trigger happy cop.
A special forces operative on the other hand...

Sending in the army has mostly lost it's negative meaning it had a century ago. Especially in countries with a profesional army and a democratic government.

[Rockstar]

I believe use of Special Forces would be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. I say the City of Ferguson needs to step up to the plate and clean up the mess they made and be prepared to kiss the publics arse.

I also think maybe the DOJ should take a more proactive stance conducting nationwide reviews similar to what they just finished in Ferguson. Nobody gets singled out, departments are randomly selected like a random drug test.


http://pov-tc.pbs.org/pov/film-images/revolution67_480t.jpg

[Betonov]

Good point.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I believe use of Special Forces would be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. I say the City of Ferguson needs to step up to the plate and clean up the mess they made and be prepared to kiss the publics arse.

I also think maybe the DOJ should take a more proactive stance conducting nationwide reviews similar to what they just finished in Ferguson. Nobody gets singled out, departments are randomly selected like a random drug test.

<picture>
Could Ferguson PD be disbanded and law enforcement authority be temporarily handed over to U.S. Marshals? Would that be legally possible or is this state's issue?

Random inspections would be good idea. Some "not so random" inspection would also be warranted.

[Von Tonner]

I believe use of Special Forces would be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act. I say the City of Ferguson needs to step up to the plate and clean up the mess they made and be prepared to kiss the publics arse.

I also think maybe the DOJ should take a more proactive stance conducting nationwide reviews similar to what they just finished in Ferguson. Nobody gets singled out, departments are randomly selected like a random drug test.


http://pov-tc.pbs.org/pov/film-images/revolution67_480t.jpg

In my reading they have through their report etc kissed "the publics arse". Two cops were shot in response for kissing arse. So now we extend what Fergusen has done via DOJ investigation through other police departments and my bet is more police will get shot.

Here's why. There is an element in any society or community - no matter the ethnic group or race - who seek AND want confrontation to get attention. They will never be happy. They are in a hole be that hole their living conditions, their lack of opportunity at prosperity, or simply their OWN lack of determination to pull themselves out of their plight of poverty - they need to blame someone. And if they can instigate others to their mayhem all the better.

We have this type of thinking in abundance here in SA. I posted a heart warming post a few months back of a young guy born into gangland here in the Cape area yet, despite all the wrong peer pressure, rose to become the first chess master of SA.

I abhor some societies "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" acceptance of privilege, rightful expectancy and patronage but at the same time I fully subscribe to the principal that our lives are what we make of it. Regardless.

[Rockstar]

In my reading they have through their report etc kissed "the publics arse". Two cops were shot in response for kissing arse. So now we extend what Fergusen has done via DOJ investigation through other police departments and my bet is more police will get shot....

Frankly I think the timing of the report was way off and in response to an event which according to the Grand Jury, DOJ and other investigators had nothing to do with race. Putting that report out when they did only added fuel to an already burning fire and in my feeble mind could also have been a motivating factor in getting those two cops shot.

I would rather see the DOJ become proactive rather than reactive in conducting reviews like they did in Fergusen. To take out the trash BEFORE things fall apart. With the hope it will be used restore the publics faith and trust in the servants protecting their communities. Then those shady elements have little or no opportunity to sway Joe Q Public and cause trouble.

ok Im done rambling.

[Rockstar]

Could Ferguson PD be disbanded and law enforcement authority be temporarily handed over to U.S. Marshals? Would that be legally possible or is this state's issue?

Random inspections would be good idea. Some "not so random" inspection would also be warranted.

Disband Ferguson PD? Hell no! Thats too easy, I say remove the visiting police departments from Ferguson jurisdiction and make the City of Ferguson toe the line and EARN the publics trust. They made their bed now let them lie in it. Im also for sending the former elected officials and police chief who took part in creating this mess then ran from their responsibilities by resigning back out on the street to help restore order!

[AngusJS]

Ok, the department hears the community on its complaints, does an extensive investigation, identifies problems and unacceptable behaviour in some of its personel resulting in dismissals, resignations and puts forward a working solution to address grievances of the community.

Communities response? They hold a protest to demonstrate that they are not satisfied with the resignations and then shoot two cops.

And then some people still ask why the police dont "pussy-foot" when dealing with certain people or communities.

21,000 people in Ferguson. Wow, I didn't know that every one of them was armed and took part in the murder.

I guess the "just a few rotten apples" defense only applies to the police.

[Oberon]

Disband Ferguson PD? Hell no! Thats too easy, I say remove the visiting police departments from Ferguson jurisdiction and make the City of Ferguson toe the line and EARN the publics trust. They made their bed now let them lie in it. Im also for sending the former elected officials and police chief who took part in creating this mess then ran from their responsibilities by resigning back out on the street to help restore order!

That's a good idea. Probably more constructive than shutting Ferguson PD down, although it's hard to say if they actually could earn the publics trust back now. :hmmm:

[Von Tonner]

21,000 people in Ferguson. Wow, I didn't know that every one of them was armed and took part in the murder.

I guess the "just a few rotten apples" defense only applies to the police.

No AngusJS it most certainly does NOT apply only to the police. But the police through investigations of their own can identify and embark on getting rid if the "rotten apples" within their ranks.

Now you go and explain that noble principle you require from a police force to a new or wised police recruit assigned to go down a certain street in a neighbourhood community KNOWN for crime.

Do you seriously believe the good guys in that neighbourhood are going to rush out onto the streets and point out the bad guys to the police.

No - that ain't going to happen. If something goes down that law officer is on his own having to determine on a split second who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. And let us not forget in this equation, uppermost will be the safety of his or her own life.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Disband Ferguson PD? Hell no! Thats too easy, I say remove the visiting police departments from Ferguson jurisdiction and make the City of Ferguson toe the line and EARN the publics trust. They made their bed now let them lie in it. Im also for sending the former elected officials and police chief who took part in creating this mess then ran from their responsibilities by resigning back out on the street to help restore order!Would I be in charge (thank the God that I'm not!) I would do just that. Pick up the good guys/gals and send em' for vacation. Dirt bags and city hall can handle the thing alone... :D
That's a good idea. Probably more constructive than shutting Ferguson PD down, although it's hard to say if they actually could earn the publics trust back now. :hmmm:Clean sheet approach is in my opinion fastest and least painful way out of this mess. Maybe in decade or two current organization could regain trust if no one screws up before that... :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

Would I be in charge (thank the God that I'm not!) I would do just that. Pick up the good guys/gals and send em' for vacation. Dirt bags and city hall can handle the thing alone... :D
Clean sheet approach is in my opinion fastest and least painful way out of this mess. Maybe in decade or two current organization could regain trust if no one screws up before that... :hmmm:


you're right there are quite a few good cops in that department who keep the faith, and believe they can and do the right thing. But realistically we cant send them on vacation because they are the ones who have to rebuild what others destroyed. Whats worse yet is they're also the ones to get hurt or die trying. While the elected officials, dirt bags cops and police chief get fired or resign and flee the area like rats off a sinking ship.

[Aktungbby]

What it's all about IMHO and we' re not there yet...:hmmm:http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2011/07/norman_girl1-2011-thumb-640xauto-3675.jpgNorman Rockwell's painting of Ruby Bridges. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/US_Marshals_with_Young_Ruby_Bridges_on_School_Step s.jpg/220px-US_Marshals_with_Young_Ruby_Bridges_on_School_Step s.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Marshals_with_Young_Ruby_Bridges_on_School _Steps.jpg)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Bridges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Bridges)

[Rockstar]

Of course working at the corner 'Stop-n-Rob' selling chips and booze for minimum wage doesn't cut it either. Neither does saying to someone to go out and get a job when there are no jobs to be had. Career jobs bring about stable families giving children a sense of belonging which reduces gang activity which in turn reduces police presence and suspicions. Also from my own experience children are taught from the start to never trust police. That needs to change too.

There is a heck of a lot more to this than a few bad police.

[em2nought]

Neither does saying to someone to go out and get a job when there are no jobs to be had.

The welfare state has made a large percentage of the population unemployable, and it has nothing to do with race. You can try to employ someone, help them to find a place to live, loan them the money to do it, and they'll just turn on you and bite the hand that feeds them. Reduce their expenses, and they'll just increase their drug buying. These people are not civilized. It would probably take a real great depression to "fix" these people, but the good people better be armed.

...and no one owes anyone a job. If someone wants to work let them go buy a shovel and some seed and get to planting.

[Stealhead]

...and no one owes anyone a job. If someone wants to work let them go buy a shovel and some seed and get to planting.

Of course they will need the permit to dig the holes and a permit to plant the seeds. They'll also need to own or lease good tillable land. No where near as easy as you are claiming.

Now a young kid can get a job and go to school while he works and if he stays out of trouble and doesn't knock anyone up he will have a good chance at success. Trouble is when mom and dad are either working 24\7 or are lazy there's no supervision or good role model in the latter case. Then when they see the guys slinging dope and making in a day what at an honest low wage job would take a month its no wonder they choose crime.

I had good parents as do most people who tow the the line in society if I'd had bad parents or if they where always working and never around I can't say for sure I'd have picked the path through life that I have.

I'm not trying be a bleed heart or to justify I'm just doing a little "walking in their shoes".

[Oberon]

It does seem like some folk are stuck in the pre-war era... :hmmm:

What was those lyrics from Telegraph road?

"I used to like to go to work, but they shut it down
I've got a right to go to work, but there's no work here to be found."

[em2nought]

No where near as easy as you are claiming.


One word for them then, "Croatoan". :up:

[Rockstar]

Things that I trust more than a peaceful protest in Fergusen:

1. Mexican tap water
2. A rattlesnake with a "pet me" sign
3. OJ Simpson showing me his knife collection
4. Hilary Clinton not standing by her man like Tammy Wynette
5. Obama's investigation into the IRS Targeting Scandal
6. MeCHA, La Raza, and LULAC's claim they're not racists
7. Michael Jackson's Doctor
8. An Obama Nuclear deal with Iran
9. Bill Clinton's claim he never had inappropriate relationships
10. Gas station Sushi
11. A Jimmy Carter economic plan
12. MSNBC's news reports
13. Prayers for peace from Al Sharpton
14. Hilary Clinton's investigation into Bengazi
15. A business proposition from the Nigerian Minister of Finance
16. A Jeffery Dahmer dinner invitation
17. Rachel Dolezal's claim, ex-NAACP leader, that she's African American