Explosions at Boston Marathon

[Skybird]

On the FSB, they knew since years about the fundamentalist background of the older brother, and thus had set their eyes on him and is family. No Putinistic conspiracy is needed to explain the FSB's interest, then.

And they tipped the FBI on its shoulder and told them to better watch them. Cooperation between intel services like this is nothing spectacular, but common practice - even between states not having the closest of ties.

It's amazing how desperately everybody and the media try to ignore and hide the role that Islam once again played in motivating these Muslim terrorists. The Chechnya wars always have been a confrontation not only for territorial sovereignity, but also about a religiously motivated confrontation. Which in Islam in the end is the same.

[TLAM Strike]

Uh Oh looks like this thread might have to be merged with the Gun Control super thread. It appears our bombing suspects didn't bother to get a licensee for their firearms.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/04/21/us/21reuters-usa-explosions-boston-guns.html?hp&_r=0

Oh dear, you mean Terrorists don't obey the laws? What is the world coming to? :haha:

[mookiemookie]

It's amazing how desperately everybody and the media try to ignore and hide the role that Islam once again played in motivating these Muslim terrorists. The Chechnya wars always have been a confrontation not only for territorial sovereignity, but also about a religiously motivated confrontation. Which in Islam in the end is the same.

I don't think anyone's been trying to ignore it or hide it. Certainly over here the news keeps harping on the fact that the dead one went over to Russia and had ties with extremists. It's hard to do anything more than wildly speculate at motives when up till now, there's been no statements or answers from the perpetrators.

[Tribesman]

I don't think anyone's been trying to ignore it or hide it.
I think what he really means is that the media isn't running "ITS THE MUSLIMS" as every second line in every broadcast during the ever repeating 24 hour news cycle.

Certainly over here the news keeps harping on the fact that the dead one went over to Russia and had ties with extremists.
Indeed. Far from ignoring it you would be hard pushed to find any news outlets which are not reporting it.

[Buddahaid]

Uh Oh looks like this thread might have to be merged with the Gun Control super thread. It appears our bombing suspects didn't bother to get a licensee for their firearms.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/04/21/us/21reuters-usa-explosions-boston-guns.html?hp&_r=0

Oh dear, you mean Terrorists don't obey the laws? What is the world coming to? :haha:

The article seems to suggest that the new legislation would have stopped them from getting, or keeping the guns. Hello, they didn't have a license to make bombs either! :dead:

[Jimbuna]

All I got to say is:

http://i.imgur.com/TUlx2iU.jpg

I think our LE did a great job in this.

Precisely :har:

And yes they sure did :rock:

[mookiemookie]

The article seems to suggest that the new legislation would have stopped them from getting, or keeping the guns. Hello, they didn't have a license to make bombs either! :dead:

But if you buy fertilizer used in making bombs in any sort of large quantity, you'll get a visit from Mr. FBI: http://abcnews.go.com/US/page?id=12992118

But nope, we can't keep track of gun sales. That'd be un-American. :doh:

[Buddahaid]

But if you buy fertilizer used in making bombs in any sort of large quantity, you'll get a visit from Mr. FBI: http://abcnews.go.com/US/page?id=12992118

But nope, we can't keep track of gun sales. That'd be un-American. :doh:

Useless comparison. The fertilizer sales are strictly voluntary reporting to the FBI according to your link.

[Jimbuna]

No surprises here then:


He was advised of his rights and charged with one count of using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction in the U.S. and one count of malicious destruction of property with an explosive device. The charges could carry the death penalty.


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite

[mookiemookie]

Useless comparison. The fertilizer sales are strictly voluntary reporting to the FBI according to your link.

No, it's a great comparison. Track every sale, require ID and send the FBI their way if they're buying "large quantity of pesticides, combustibles, or fertilizers containing ammonium nitrate out of season or with cash."

But if you're on the terrorist watch list? Heck, buy all the guns you want. The NRA made sure that was legal. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/28/fbi-247-people-terro-watch-list-bought-guns-2010/)

And if that same notice went out in regards to guns instead of fertilizer? You can bet the NRA's collective heads would explode.

[Sailor Steve]

No, it's a great comparison. Track every sale, require ID and send the FBI their way if they're buying "large quantity of pesticides, combustibles, or fertilizers containing ammonium nitrate out of season or with cash."
That's an advisory, not a law. They are asking for cooperation.

[mookiemookie]

That's an advisory, not a law. They are asking for cooperation.

Right. And what happens when gun dealers are supposed to report bulk gun sales to the ATF? The NRA fights it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/us/04guns.html?_r=0 It seems like if it were up to them, there would be no record keeping requirements, no requests for cooperation and no licensing at all.

[Madox58]

Geez. People exercising thier rights to support NRA..............
And I'd think Farmers did the same on the fertilizer stuff.
:hmmm:
:roll:

[vienna]

Right. And what happens when gun dealers are supposed to report bulk gun sales to the ATF? The NRA fights it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/us/04guns.html?_r=0 It seems like if it were up to them, there would be no record keeping requirements, no requests for cooperation and no licensing at all.


Sometimes the NRA shoots itself in the foot; a number of years back, when California was considering new gun laws, a spokesman for the CA NRA chapter actually responded to a reporter's on-air question regarding gun sales to known mentally impaired persons with the assertion that the 2nd Amendment cover those individuals as well and they had every right to keep and bear arms. I'll never forget the stunned looks on the reporter's face and the faces of the news anchors when they cut back to the station...

<O>

[Buddahaid]

Since the watch list is secret how are any gun dealers, or private sellers supposed to know? Catch 22. Heck, anyone could be on the watch list at any time, and for almost any reason. That's how you would disarm the citizens then. Just declare everyone on the watch list and start rounding the guns up. No need to explain why anyone is on the list either because it is secret.:stare:

[vienna]

Since the watch list is secret how are any gun dealers, or private sellers supposed to know? Catch 22. Heck, anyone could be on the watch list at any time, and for almost any reason. That's how you would disarm the citizens then. Just declare everyone on the watch list and start rounding the guns up. No need to explain why anyone is on the list either because it is secret.:stare:


Two points:

1:

The watch list is hardly secret. It is probably the worst kept secret in the entire "homeland security" apparatus. The number of agencies and individuals who have access to the list is quite large. Even if it were an "ultra top secret", when a check is done, the name submitted is checked against the list confidentially, just like at an airport, and, if found to be on the list, the sale would be prohibited. A background check for a firearm would work exactly the same as a check-in at an airport;

2.

The whole argument of "rounding the guns up" is logistically ridiculous. There are about 270, 000,000 privately held firearms in the U.S. They very idea of somehow going into every home and confiscating every gun is laughable. There are roughly 312,000,000 citizens in the US; of this number, roughly 234,000,000 are over 18 years of age. Any mass gun confiscation would require an armed force totally outside the realm of reason. There is also the cosideration the confiscation would have to be virtually simultaneous across the entire nation. You couldn't start with just a few states and fan out across the country; given the pervasive social media culture and the news media, in general, a stage-by-stage confiscation would be met with resistance before the first stage could be completed. The whole "they're coming for our guns" ploy is just that: a ploy to scare the gullible...

<O>

[Platapus]

The whole argument of "rounding the guns up" is logistically ridiculous. There are about 270, 000,000 privately held firearms in the U.S. They very idea of somehow going into every home and confiscating every gun is laughable. There are roughly 312,000,000 citizens in the US; of this number, roughly 234,000,000 are over 18 years of age. Any mass gun confiscation would require an armed force totally outside the realm of reason. There is also the cosideration the confiscation would have to be virtually simultaneous across the entire nation. You couldn't start with just a few states and fan out across the country; given the pervasive social media culture and the news media, in general, a stage-by-stage confiscation would be met with resistance before the first stage could be completed. The whole "they're coming for our guns" ploy is just that: a ploy to scare the gullible...

<O>


I am not a gun confiscation conspiracy guy. But your argument presumes that the confiscation would happen all at once. But it does not have to. It could start slowly, as in New York, with the express intention of NOT alarming all the citizens. You are right. A sudden general confiscation would be logistically problematic. But a sudden general confiscation is not the only scenario to be considered.

[vienna]

I am not for gun confiscation, either. I believe in responsible gun ownership. But I am appalled at how some of the gun advocates cheapen their arguments by resorting to laughably silly scenarios...

My argument is not that a confiscation would happen all at once; it is that in order for a gun confiscation to ever be rationally and realistically carried out, it would have to be in a mass fashion. If you started, as in your example, with NY state, the news of a confiscation effort would travel beyond those borders as fast as the news media, e-mail, Twitter, Facebook, and any other form of instant communication could travel, i.e., the speed of light. The idea of a gradual, state-by-state, confiscation just can not be logically, rationally, nad logistically be accomoplished. Even withing the city of New York, a physical, armed presence would have to be of such a size, its very assembly would not pass unnoticed and forewarning would be expected to anyone owning a gun. Start in New York? You've got 49 other states forewarned and ready to resist...

As an example, consider a city riot. Here, in Los Angeles, we had a citywide riot in 1992 that lasted about 3 days. The LEOs were overwhelmed just in the first hours (although, much of that has to do with very poor planning and preparation for just such anb event by the LAPD leadership). The National Guard was called in on the second day. The actual numbers of violent rioters versus the total city population was actually quite small, but it took a lot of armed law and military personnel to regain order. These troops were very rarely fired upon by the rioters. Imagine if all the citzens who possessed firearms actively participated in the riot and took up arms against the police and NG...

The idea of the forcible confiscation of arms is just ludicrous. Do the math: the numbers just just don't pan out...

<O>

[Buddahaid]

Please realize I wasn't advocating a round up, or expecting it to happen. I was responding to the use of the watch list to keep arms away from, well people being watched for lack of a better moniker. I don't like how rights can be revoked by just changing the labeling with the DHS magic wand. That smells of former eastern bloc tactics.

Anyway, I have no wish to derail the thread so will make any further argument in the gun superthread.

[Madox58]

I have no clue why Gun stuff would be posted in this thread.
It was freaking BOMBS!
The gun play was later on and also does not concern the topic as started.
I hate being confused and you all are doing a GREAT job of doing that to me.

[eddie]

Well, our surviving bomber says they were motivated by religion, and they were not part of a terrorist group. They got the information to make bombs off the internet.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-officials-hospitalized-bombing-suspect-says-he-and-brother-acted-alone-motivated-by-religion?lite

[Cybermat47]

I have no clue why Gun stuff would be posted in this thread.
It was freaking BOMBS!
The gun play was later on and also does not concern the topic as started.
I hate being confused and you all are doing a GREAT job of doing that to me.

My reaction to gun debates is OMFGWTFBBQ.

[Madox58]

Hmm...............
BBQ!
:D

[Buddahaid]

I have no clue why Gun stuff would be posted in this thread.
It was freaking BOMBS!
The gun play was later on and also does not concern the topic as started.
I hate being confused and you all are doing a GREAT job of doing that to me.

Because the thread is about the bomb attack and the perpetrators who according to the referred Reuters article in the NY Times didn't legally buy their guns. So it is related to the crime and part of the whole picture, but not to the extent of inviting long discussion over gun control.

[mapuc]

A friend send me this on Facebook

I can't say if it's a fake story or not.

http://dailycurrant.com/2013/04/22/sarah-palin-calls-invasion-czech-republic/

I can see that it's a satirical newspaper

Markus

[Vince82]

Well, our surviving bomber says they were motivated by religion, and they were not part of a terrorist group. They got the information to make bombs off the internet.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-religion?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-officials-hospitalized-bombing-suspect-says-he-and-brother-acted-alone-motivated-by-religion?lite)


Al qaeda has its own esquire magazine it about the jihad and it explains exactly how to build the bombs, their magazine is called Inspire. This was pointed out already by another subsimmer on page 13.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspire_(magazine)

[Armistead]

Not keeping up, but am I understanding they think the older brother or both may have been involved with 3 previous murders?

[TLAM Strike]

Turns out I know someone who works at the store where the Brothers purchased their Lock and Load mortars (a large fireworks kit).

From what I gather the material they could have salvaged from the fireworks would not have amounted to much black powder. But that is probably not going to be good for the company or the fireworks industry. These only became legal a year or two ago and Joe was saying they might outlaw them again.

[Catfish]

Seems there is a lot of 'inconsistency' in this case to say at least.

[Catfish]

Seems it was at least not direct state terrorism, but it explains why the brothers had been in contact with some agencies before. FBI ? CIA ? recruited the pair to infiltrate Islamic terrorists, but the ploy backfired. It's not the first time it happens.
Good we have such good friends like the Saudis :dead:

DEBKA files:
"The Tsarnaev brothers were double agents who decoyed US into terror trap".

Source:
http://debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-double-agents-who-decoyed-US-into-terror-trap

[Vince82]

edit (for obvious reasons):


DEBKA files:
"The Tsarnaev brothers were double agents who decoyed US into terror trap".




DEBKA isn't a reliable source, it's pretty rediculous to think they were double agents. I wouldnt believe that unless proven otherwise.

[Skybird]

It's starts to kill my nerves that the mother again and again tells how much she regrets that the family ever moved to the US and how innocent her sons had been and that the Us did not protect them.

Dear Mrs. Righteous-Selfcentrism from wonderful Chechnya , I'm sure you are not alone and that there are several hundred if not many thousands of people in America who - like you - also deeply regret that you have ever come to the US, and would have preferred that you would never have. Amongst them for example these three, to give just some of them a face.

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2247/e1ea877ae2e6070d300f6a7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/e1ea877ae2e6070d300f6a7.jpg/)

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/386/628x471lp.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/628x471lp.jpg/)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6267/16nk32ow6t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/16nk32ow6t.jpg/)

I looked in vein to read somewhere that media people or commentators refuse to give this woman the stage she claims most naturally to act as if her sons are the victim here. Family or not - this does not give her the right to behave like she does. Disgusting that she can get away with this instead of media making it clear beyond doubt who the real victims here are.

P.S. It is important to show the blood and the mutilations of people in media, so that people do not forget what terrorism is about and what it does, and why it cannot be compared to just any crime like shoplifting or cracking open a cash automat. I had to witness quite some disgusting comments in German media, radio and newspapers, trying to relativize the terror done and claiming that Americans face some responsibility by having provoked the aggression due to failing integration of native Americans to the foreigners. It'S a mental asylum I live in.

I've seen stuff like this myself, on scene, when I was young, I am always upset when seeing such pics in media, and I am totally pissed about this Cheynan primitive women lamenting about her family. If I would meet her, I would spit in her face - not for what her sons did and she being their mother, but for her notorious lamenting about America.

[Oberon]

I honestly don't get where people get these silly conspiracy ideas from.

Two young guys came to the US from a Muslim nation, they arrived in the US post-9/11 while Russia was stomping around Chechnya with T-90s and MiGs. They got asylum from fear of religious persecution.
The older brother never quite managed to fit in, so he went to his familys roots of Islam and fell into online extreme Islam, the parents probably never even knew about it. The younger brother managed to fit into society, but felt a deep bond to his brother in this new strange world, so it was easy for his older brother to talk him in to radical Islam and convince him to come with him and bomb Boston.
Now the older brother is dead and the younger brother will probably join him before the year is out.
The end.

[Tribesman]

I honestly don't get where people get these silly conspiracy ideas from.

Alex Jones

[Oberon]

Alex Jones

Touché... :nope:

[mapuc]

Alex Jones

Or
Jesse Ventura

[BossMark]

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/hC663EF83_zpscbbabf4e.png

[Oberon]

The mods have just helped to give terrorism a more humane face by deleting one single piece of opposing evidence, because although in some Western countries even little kids are taken to pistol and rifle ranges by their parents, and 17 and 18 year old are sent into wars, a single pic like was to be seen en masse in the news that everybody, no matter his age, has seen in past days, with a mild pattern of blood drops showing, was considered to be "unappropriate" or whatever it is called.

Call it what you want. I call it shizophrenia and infantile denial of reality.

The rules are the rules, calling the mods names isn't going to do anything.

[Skybird]

To explain Oberon's post, I posted that quote indeed, then found that maybe the link in my posting is not working, its still there in text, but leads to an error (did not when I posted). I deleted that post Oberon quoted, due to the doubt.

If mods confirm they edited it, then I stick to my criticism, because it is not "rules" then, but simply stupid - all TV stations showed material without age discrimination that was MUCH more disturbing than the missing photo I posted, and by today's standards was mild indeed.

If no editing took place, then I and we fell for a technical error for which apparently rapidshare is responsible. In that case I express my regret for the confused situation.

[Jimbuna]

I can categorically state that a moderator has not interfered or edited the post you have made reference to.

[mookiemookie]

That's why you use Imgur and not dodgy imageshack.

[Skybird]

I can categorically state that a moderator has not interfered or edited the post you have made reference to.

Nor would there have been a reason. I conclude that the link rapidshare gave somehow is messy, then. I just wonder why the pic after posting the entry was shown this afternoon.

Regrettable. I have already earlier withdrawn the initial angry reply of mine and hope my explanation why I was upset helps to let this event get booked under "technical mishaps". Its not the first time that rapidshare gave me troubles this year.

[Skybird]

That's why you use Imgur and not dodgy imageshack.

Imgur. Will check that out.

[Jimbuna]

Nor would there have been a reason. I conclude that the link rapidshare gave somehow is messy, then. I just wonder why the pic after posting the entry was shown this afternoon.

Regrettable. I have already earlier withdrawn the initial angry reply of mine and hope my explanation why I was upset helps to let this event get booked under "technical mishaps". Its not the first time that rapidshare gave me troubles this year.

Sorted then :salute:

[Tribesman]

The rules are the rules, calling the mods names isn't going to do anything.
I disagree, that post shows a lot.

[Jimbuna]

The suspect has now been transferred to a federal medical centre.


The Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been transferred from hospital to prison, US police say.
The US Marshals Service said the 19-year-old had been moved from the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center to a facility at Fort Devens, Massachusetts.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22308593

[Skybird]

A "suspect" sounds too harmless. At least one should call him the confessing suspect. A suspect is somebody whose guilt is still in doubt. That is not the case here.

[Feuer Frei!]

A "suspect" sounds too harmless. At least one should call him the confessing suspect. A suspect is somebody whose guilt is still in doubt. That is not the case here.
Well, i haven't kept up with this too much but, have they charged him yet?
If not, then i would assume he still remains a suspect.
Until he is formally charged and convicted.

[Tchocky]

A "suspect" sounds too harmless. At least one should call him the confessing suspect. A suspect is somebody whose guilt is still in doubt. That is not the case here.

Not at all. He's a suspect until found either guilty or innocent. Changing what we call him to make ourselves feel better accomplishes nothing.

[Catfish]

Now lets see what happened, from a US citizen's view:


" [...]
The Boston narrative continues, with latest additions at the bottom:

Feds claim that a Saudi is a suspect. Saudi kid is interrogated and quickly disappears, whisked out of the country. Media pretends it never happened.

Two new suspects are introduced. Feds claim they robbed a 7-11. Story turns out to be untrue. Cops let story stand uncorrected for days.

Feds then claim one began shooting at them and "throwing bombs." Turns out the only bombs were thrown by the police, who used flash-bang grenades against the suspects.

Feds claim older Tsarnaev was run over by his brother. This, too, was a lie. Now we know from witnesses that the Feds ran him over and then used his body for target practice.

Feds bring martial law to the city. It doesn't work. They find nothing until a private citizen runs across younger Tsarnaev by accident. Stupid Americans hail cops who found nothing as heroes.

We're told Tsarnaevs are Russian. Turns out they aren't.

We're told they're Chechnyian. Turns out they aren't.

Feds claim they never had any prior contact with Tsarnaevs. That's a lie, too. CBS News finds out they have.

CNN uses the same presumed actress (http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F-DvT-taQsJ_I%2FUXPP2w-ndJI%2FAAAAAAAAFVg%2FrJuprysLwkU%2Fs1600%2Fcrisis-actor-boston-bombing-cnn.png) for two crisis interviews, live on air, claiming to have been on the scene to witness two separate stories during the week.

Fox News appears to have done the same thing, this time borrowing an actress (http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoOZfX2O.jpg) from the alleged Sandy Hook incident. Note that they don't even bother to use a different image; they merely re-crop the same photo for use over the actress' voice.

Not only did our courageous officers cover themselves in battle-scarred glory by riddling David Henneberry's boat with a hail of bullets in an attempt to murder the lone, crippled teenager desperately hiding inside, but after the melee, they stole Henneberry's rare 21-foot Seahawk.

Police finally admit to the Washington Post that Tsarnaev was unarmed while hiding in the boat. This means he did not “shoot himself” in the throat. And it means that the entire narrative about a “running gun battle” during the “pursuit” of Tsarnaev was... you guessed it... another official lie.

Pressed for details, the FBI on Friday refuses to discuss what prompted them to fire hundreds of rounds at a wounded, unarmed teenage boy. [...]"


Only trolling .. ?

[Myxale]

Nice one Cat.

Too many inconsistencies.

[Tchocky]

That's a load of paranoid rubbish.

[Oberon]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv5w8hXlAm1qz80cmo1_500.jpg

[Wolferz]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/guy-fawkes-wal-smiley-project.png (http://s205.photobucket.com/user/Wolferz_2007/media/guy-fawkes-wal-smiley-project.png.html)

Manufactured news is nothing new.

[Catfish]

^ Manufactured news is nothing new.

No, but should you believe it ? :hmm2:

[swamprat69er]

I believe nothing I don't see with my own eyes. The news media is famous for manufacturing lies and BS.

[Takeda Shingen]

A very dear friend of mine was seriously injured at the Boston Marathon. She will have a long and painful road to recovery. And here you all are interjecting your personal politics and shoehorning various conspiracy theories of all stripes, sparing no effort to take it to your political rivals for the past 38 pages. Stay classy, SubSim.

[swamprat69er]

The Boston Marathon is a voluntary run for charity, right?
Being as the injured were volunteers, do they have to pay for the hospital stay regarding their injuries and the recovery (physio therapy)? :hmmm:

[Takeda Shingen]

The Boston Marathon is a voluntary run for charity, right?
Being as the injured were volunteers, do they have to pay for the hospital stay regarding their injuries and the recovery (physio therapy)? :hmmm:

Truthfully, I don't know. And I haven't thought it appropriate to ask her about any monetary compensation or coverage. She's just in a lot of pain, both physical and mental.

[Tchocky]

Best wishes for your friend Tak. I had one friend running who thankfully finished 15 minutes before it all happened.

[Takeda Shingen]

Best wishes for your friend Tak. I had one friend running who thankfully finished 15 minutes before it all happened.

Man, scary stuff right there. I've been in a few "that could have been me" situations before, but nothing like a tragedy like this. Still, the feeling you get from it is just indescribable. Almost a numbness, but not, if that makes any sense at all.

[swamprat69er]

Truthfully, I don't know. And I haven't thought it appropriate to ask her about any monetary compensation or coverage. She's just in a lot of pain, both physical and mental.
There is no doubt in my mind that the pain would be unbearable.
I think something like that would be the end of my volunteering for any public event.

[Takeda Shingen]

There is no doubt in my mind that the pain would be unbearable.
I think something like that would be the end of my volunteering for any public event.

I know, but you can't. You can't just stop being human and taking part in the human experience. It's easy for me to say that not having been in it, though.

[Tribesman]

I think something like that would be the end of my volunteering for any public event.
Why would you give in to terrorism?

[WernherVonTrapp]

A very dear friend of mine was seriously injured at the Boston Marathon. She will have a long and painful road to recovery. And here you all are interjecting your personal politics and shoehorning various conspiracy theories of all stripes, sparing no effort to take it to your political rivals for the past 38 pages. Stay classy, SubSim.My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your friend Takeda. It is a terrible tragedy for the friends and families of those who were killed or injured. Some of the injured have a long, slow, recovery ahead of them, also painful no doubt.

Conspiracy theories abound in society. Heck, there are still those who believe that the U.S. staged the Neil Armstrong lunar landing of 1969. Having been in the loop of such things over the past 25 years, I've heard people speculate and postulate to no end. Never were they correct in their assumptions/assertions (regarding incidents I had direct knowledge of or involvement in). Still, despite knowing the true story, I wouldn't argue or debate with them in their assertions. People will believe what they want or choose to believe, no matter what evidence is presented.

The news media is famous for manufacturing lies and BS.
Well, I myself have been misquoted in some local newspaper articles and have seen incidents that I was involved in misrepresented by local News media. Whether intentional or accidental, I know firsthand that it does happen.

[Takeda Shingen]

My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your friend Takeda. It is a terrible tragedy for the friends and families of those who were killed or injured. Some of the injured have a long, slow, recovery ahead of them, also painful no doubt.

Conspiracy theories abound in society. Heck, there are still those who believe that the U.S. staged the Neil Armstrong lunar landing of 1969. Having been in the loop of such things over the past 25 years, I've heard people speculate and postulate to no end. Never were they correct in their assumptions/assertions (regarding incidents I had direct knowledge of or involvement in). Still, despite knowing the true story, I wouldn't argue or debate with them in their assertions. People will believe what they want or choose to believe, no matter what evidence is presented.

Pedophilia is abundant in society. Shall we discuss the validity of it here on SubSim? Are we going to keep giving the conspiracies prominence here? You have to ask yourself what kind of forum you want. Do you want the type of SubSim that is a haven of conspiracy theories and political extremism? Do you want the type of SubSim that we used to have, where those sort of things were not a factor?

[Catfish]

Sry for being OT here:

Regarding ^ this is the General topics forum, things not related to submarines but to all things the public is interested in, and people write what they are interested in.
Me, I am not overly interested in guns (if partly fascinating, admiring good workmanship or historical weapons, all ok) but then i do not read those threads, or not entirely.

Regarding Boston, I did not write about a conspiracy, but about how strange this reporting is or has been. I do not think it serves the dead, wounded or their families if those in charge keep pumping out contradicting reports, and estimations.
My condolences.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[WernherVonTrapp]

Pedophilia is abundant in society. Shall we discuss the validity of it here on SubSim? Are we going to keep giving the conspiracies prominence here? You have to ask yourself what kind of forum you want. Do you want the type of SubSim that is a haven of conspiracy theories and political extremism? Do you want the type of SubSim that we used to have, where those sort of things were not a factor?Easy Takeda, I wasn't condoning conspiracy theories. Read my post again, slowly. I was being sarcastic about society and it's conspiracy theories in general.:up:

[Takeda Shingen]

Sry for being OT here:

Regarding ^ this is the General topics forum, things not related to submarines but to all things the public is interested in, and people write what they are interested in.
Me, I am not overly interested in guns (if partly fascinating, admiring good workmanship or historical weapons, all ok) but then i do not read those threads, or not entirely.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Conversely, it isn't an appropriate place to endlessly rant about your belief system, is it? And it certainly isn't appropriate in a thread such as this. This endless exposition has made this forum into something that I don't like. Even GT didn't used to be this way.

[Takeda Shingen]

Easy Takeda, I wasn't condoning conspiracy theories. Read my post again, slowly. I was being sarcastic about society and it's conspiracy theories in general.:up:

Read my post again, and slowly. This is an appeal to you and anyone that reads it. Grass roots action right here on the boards.

[swamprat69er]

Why would you give in to terrorism?
Self preservation. I hate pain, especially my own.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Read my post again, and slowly. This is an appeal to you and anyone that reads it. Grass roots action right here on the boards.OK, now I'm confused.:hmm2: I was agreeing with you somewhat on the subject of conspiracy theories in my post. Is it the words "conspiracy theory" that you don't want to see posted anywhere on this forum? I don't understand your reaction/reply.

[Wolferz]

Manufactured reality is a beast. 'nuff said.
>Insert P. T. Barnum quote here<


Evil people will do what evil people do best. If you are unfortunate enough to be a victim, my heart felt condolences to you.

These two wankers in Boston only succeeded in doing one thing...

They added a new sport to the Marathon...



A game our government plays well in other parts of the world.

[swamprat69er]

Manufactured reality is a beast. 'nuff said.
>Insert P. T. Barnum quote here<


Evil people will do what evil people do best. If you are unfortunate enough to be a victim, my heart felt condolences to you.

These two wankers in Boston only succeeded in doing one thing...

They added a new sport to the Marathon...



A game our government plays well in other parts of the world.

Given the present topic, don't you think that
was a little bit crude?

[Wolferz]

Given the present topic, don't you think that
was a little bit crude?

Too soon?
Jeff Ross would be proud.:03:

[Takeda Shingen]

Too soon?

Yes.

[Tchocky]

Not a fan of the "too soon" idea, people use humour* in all sorts of ways.


But seeing as a post barely a mouse-wheel away discusses a close acquaintance being gravely injured and calls for civility and respect - that "joke" falls under the rule of Don't Be A Jerk.



* = I say humour. It wasn't funny for a whole boatload of reasons.

[Tribesman]

Self preservation. I hate pain, especially my own.
Did you avoid buses the first time someone bombed a bus, what about trains planes pubs offices shops?
Are they all to be no go areas for you because terrorists have bombed them?

[Wolferz]

Not a fan of the "too soon" idea, people use humour* in all sorts of ways.


But seeing as a post barely a mouse-wheel away discusses a close acquaintance being gravely injured and calls for civility and respect - that "joke" falls under the rule of Don't Be A Jerk.



* = I say humour. It wasn't funny for a whole boatload of reasons.

Censorship is civil? My joke wasn't aimed at anyone but was summarily censored anyway.

@ Takeda,

I'm sorry your friend was injured by two anti social wankers and if you feel that I violated the terms of service then I will abide by your ruling. But nothing says I have to like it or even accept it as an insult to my freedom of speech. One of the rights I've helped defend for you and everyone else. No need to thank me.

[Tchocky]

Censorship is civil? My joke wasn't aimed at anyone but was summarily censored anyway.

You're making far too big a deal of it.

Of course it's civil in that occasionally things that are uncivil are moderated. Not censored. Censorship happens before the fact.

Summarily? ALL moderation is summary is as much there's no trial.

I'm sorry your friend was injured by two anti social wankers and if you feel that I violated the terms of service then I will abide by your ruling.Tak doesn't mod around here any more. Look at the post. It was Jim. Not that that changes anything
But nothing says I have to like it or even accept it as an insult to my freedom of speech. One of the rights I've helped defend for you and everyone else. No need to thank me. THis is Neal's house. Your freedom of speech doesn't come into it. Or your defense of said freedom. It's not even remotely relevant.

Basically you're wrong about everything here.

[HundertzehnGustav]

http://www.healthworksfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/burnlogo.png

[Wolferz]

I Agree to disagree only and we'll leave it at that to prevent any further escalation of hostile opinions.

Not a fan of the squelch knob when other people get their heart poked because they wear it on their sleeve. BUT, if that's the way they want to roll, I will respect it.
That's the end of it.
Any questions?

[Takeda Shingen]

I Agree to disagree only and we'll leave it at that to prevent any further escalation of hostile opinions.

Not a fan of the squelch knob when other people get their heart poked because they wear it on their sleeve. BUT, if that's the way they want to roll, I will respect it.
That's the end of it.
Any questions?

*Raises hand*

Since I didn't have anything to do with this, can I be excused? :doh:

[Buddahaid]

*Raises hand*

Since I didn't have anything to do with this, can I be excused? :doh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :O:

[Wolferz]

Since I didn't have anything to do with this, can I be excused? :doh:


Sister Mary Elephant said no, wait till the bell rings.:03::haha:

[Takeda Shingen]

Sister Mary Elephant said no, wait till the bell rings.:03::haha:

It's so cute when people laugh at their own jokes.

[mapuc]

For me this case is closed. They got the two who did it and now it's up to the police and their technician to gather all the evidence so they can be judged and put away for many years or whatever the verdict may be.

Markus

[Skybird]

Just saw on CNN International TV that they report on a Russian information some hours old that they (the Russians) have recorded telephone calls where the mother and the dead - the dead suspect (or is it agreed to see him as a dead terrorist by now? I mean he will never be sentenced by a jury) were talking, and mummy was telling him about jihad.

The Russians should have made those interrogation requests to the FBI from some years ago because they saw the older of the two brothers getting radicalized.

By his mother.

[Tribesman]

Just saw on CNN International TV that they report on a Russian information some hours old that they (the Russians) have recorded telephone calls where the mother and the dead - the dead suspect (or is it agreed to see him as a dead terrorist by now? I mean he will never be sentenced by a jury) were talking, and mummy was telling him about jihad.
That must be a strange version you are watching as they are saying they have a recording of a conversation between the woman and someone unknown that has vauge references to jihad.
I am sure that as the forums foremost expert on all things muslimish Skybird knows how wide a scope the concept of jihad is:03:

[Tchocky]

I Agree to disagree only and we'll leave it at that to prevent any further escalation of hostile opinions.

Not a fan of the squelch knob when other people get their heart poked because they wear it on their sleeve. BUT, if that's the way they want to roll, I will respect it.
That's the end of it.
Any questions?

Still don't think you get the idea of moderation on a private forum. I don't think anyone is being particularly hostile.

[Skybird]

After the Russian FSB overheared and recorded telephone communications between dead Tamerlan and his mother where she advised him on jihad and recommended him to join according groups in Palestine, it is reported now that not only Tamerlan got radicalized, but his mother fell for an extremist lineage of her Awari Sunni ethnicity years before him.It seems this happened not in her former years i8n Chechnya, but in the exile years in the US - this is to be taken note of, I think. She was still running a beauty salon in 2002 in the US, but by 2008 she was described to have completely changed and having turned to be extremely religious and socially and politically radical. Like her sons in recent years she declared 9/11 to be a US conspiracy, and that the Boston bombing ha snot taken place, but is another conspiracy staged by use of plenty of artificial blood and red paint.

Religious radicalization, resulting in a case of apparently total insanity and disconnection from reality. It seems my hostility towards her was justified from first sight on.

They are now examining possible links to a killed (in Chechnya) Islamic Russian, and an also killed former Russian who gained Canadian citizenship.

There seems to be a possibility that the bombing brothers maybe did not act all by themselves at all, like it was assumed initially, but maybe got support by any kind of a network.

I think I will never understood what drives women - not men, but women - to voluntarily submit to the status of slavery that Islam demands for them. :-? Does not sound like a clever idea to crave for that status voluntarily. Not at all. The father of the family does not seem to have dominated her for religious reasons, as far as one can say so far from the media reports.

[Jimbuna]

And.....

[Penguin]

The Boston police reports three more suspect have been taken into custody. (https://twitter.com/Boston_Police)
Will be interesting to see how they are connected to the bombings.

[Skybird]

Three more suspects taken into custody. So far no word on their ID.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22370695

[Skybird]

Wowh, Penguin, that was sharp. Right on the minute. :timeout:

[Penguin]

You Westphalians are too sloooow. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Wowh, Penguin, that was sharp. Right on the minute. :timeout:

A clear indication you are both co-conspirators :hmmm:

:03:

[Oberon]

A clear indication you are both co-conspirators :hmmm:

:03:

Germans, again?

Where did I leave my Hurricane... :O::03:

[AVGWarhawk]

The plot thickens. I see one drove a BMW with Terrorista #1 on his front tag?

[AndyJWest]

None of the three are implicated in plotting the attacks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22370695

[Skybird]

^ :06: ???
Obfuscation and hindering justice and/or police still is a punishable offence. That's why they write this:


If convicted, Mr Kadyrbayev and Mr Tazhayakov face a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a $250,000 (£160,000) fine, while Mr Phillipos faces up to eight years in prison and a similar fine.


Let's not forget that if the charges are true, they assisted and helped two mass murderers. Morally, that is almost the same severity like laying the bombs and pushing the button.

[Jimbuna]

If found guilty may the full weight of the judicial system/allowed penalty be imposed.

[Onkel Neal]

That little :88) is gonna die for his crime. Bet he's not smiling now.

[Oberon]

Eh, it'll be a less painful death than those who he was involved in killing.

I say supermax the sod, see how he manages with solitary confinement in a soundproofed cell with no way to commit suicide, just the same grey room, day in and day out for the rest of his life. Not even a face to see, or a television or book to occupy his thoughts.

Executions are quick, be it by bullet, injection or old sparky, five minutes tops and its over.

But a life-time of just this:
http://duderocket.com/sites/default/files/572406-supermax.jpg

And it will be a long life, it's not as if this guy is an old man.

He would be praying for death after a year. Stick him in ADX Florence and forget about him. :nope:

[August]

After only 11 hours of deliberation the jury has handed down a verdict of guilty on all 30 charges.

Such a short deliberation in spite of the pages and pages of documents they had to review (the judges instructions was 30 pages alone). That shows I think that there isn't much sympathy for the defendant and does not bode well for the defense going into the sentencing phase.

[nikimcbee]

That little :88) is gonna die for his crime. Bet he's not smiling now.

Sounds like a bet. If he was in Texas maybe....

Taking bets now.

[Jimbuna]

After only 11 hours of deliberation the jury has handed down a verdict of guilty on all 30 charges.

Such a short deliberation in spite of the pages and pages of documents they had to review (the judges instructions was 30 pages alone). That shows I think that there isn't much sympathy for the defendant and does not bode well for the defense going into the sentencing phase.

Rgr that :yep:

I do think Oberon makes a good compromise as well though.

[Aktungbby]

That little :88) is gonna die for his crime. Bet he's not smiling now.

Eh, it'll be a less painful death than those who he was involved in killing.


Executions are quick, be it by bullet, injection or old sparky, five minutes tops and its over.

But a life-time of just this:






I think that there isn't much sympathy for the defendant and does not bode well for the defense going into the sentencing phase.

Rgr that :yep:

I do think Oberon makes a good compromise as well though.

:nope: and no 72 virgins to boot BBY! http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/tmdsu15040920150410053345.jpg (http://townhall.com/political-cartoons/2015/04/09/129486)

[mapuc]

Latest news

A jury has sentenced Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to death

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/15/us/boston-bombing-tsarnaev-sentence/index.html

CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin said a years-long appeal process is expected, but "the overwhelming likelihood is that he will die."

Markus

[Oberon]

Ah well, that's how it goes. Pity for the family, but their son made his choice and now he's going to have to live with it...for a time...

[nikimcbee]

I wonder if he'll appeal the decision?
Anybody remember how much time elaped between McVeigh's conviction to when he was put down?

[Buddahaid]

Let him appeal. He'll suffer longer with the threat over his head. :yeah:

[donna52522]

I believe any death penalty has an automatic appeal process.

[Jimbuna]

Can't say I've any sympathy....he did the crime so now he must do the time or whatever other consequence is handed down as a result.

[Aktungbby]

Can't say I've any sympathy....he did the crime so now he must do the time or whatever other consequence is handed down as a result.
Yeah, but sometimes you just wanna do the job yourself...and you can't seem to find the sharpener! How is it this scum is even in the country?!
http://fscomps.fotosearch.com/compc/CSP/CSP991/k12153932.jpg

[Gargamel]

Bad joke of the week:

At the time of the verdict, coworkers and I are sitting around at lunch. One of them is reading the article, and asks:

"I wonder if they still use a pistol to start the race?"

I answered "Nah, they just toss a backpack in the street and everybody takes offs running."

[Rockstar]

I'll be honest I laughed.

But then I think I'm the only one here who got a kick too out of helicopter cat. I know, I know, Im going straight to hell. :D

[Aktungbby]

I know, I know, Im going straight to hell. :DI'll have a Hamm's waitin' fer ya....served at room temperature:D http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=7048&albumid=815&dl=1381536131&thumb=1 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=815)U-666

[mapuc]

yesterday I saw an American person on Danish news saying that they preferred that he got life instead of death penalty.

Life-then we will not hear about him anymore. He will be locked away, the press will write about it for some days and then he is forgotten.

Death penalty-every time he..(forgot the word) we will hear or read his name.

When I heard and read(subtitle) I thought.

I have never been thinking like that.

Markus

[Oberon]

yesterday I saw an American person on Danish news saying that they preferred that he got life instead of death penalty.

Life-then we will not hear about him anymore. He will be locked away, the press will write about it for some days and then he is forgotten.

Death penalty-every time he..(forgot the word) we will hear or read his name.

When I heard and read(subtitle) I thought.

I have never been thinking like that.

Markus

That's what I reckoned earlier in the thread. The whole process prior to execution is going to take years probably, and cost a fair amount of money in legal procedings. It will continue to generate headlines whenever an important landmark is reached, and his reactions will be broadcast to the world. By the time he actually gets to the injection room he'll be lauded as a martyr for his cause by the likes of Daesh and Al'Qaeda, and perhaps encourage more people to do their 'religious duty', because what they won't show is him twitching and spasming as the injection takes hold, nor him urinating himself or crying and begging before hand. It will just be reported that he was executed via lethal injection and that will be that. To be honest, even if half of the aforementioned stuff was broadcasted, it would be just denounced as the work of the 'Great Satan' and that he would be better off 'in the arms of Allah', etc.

There's a French word, Oubliette, it's used to describe a particular form of captivity in medieval times. That's the sort of treatment he should have received, in my opinion, bolted away in one of those Supermax prisons and the media discouraged from mentioning his name ever again.

[Stealhead]

The appeals process its called when a person receives a death sentence. I believe by law iin most states a certain amount of appeals are automatically granted unless the person demands at the first appeal that they wish to have the sentence carried out as soon as possible. Timothy McVeigh did that and his was a federal sentence.

Actually I think its a fair set up as it gives a chance for a conviction to be reviewed thus its a way to be sure so to speak that the law has been justly carried out to that point before the sentence is carried out. Or for the condemned to say get it over with.

[mapuc]

The appeals process its called when a person receives a death sentence. I believe by law iin most states a certain amount of appeals are automatically granted unless the person demands at the first appeal that they wish to have the sentence carried out as soon as possible. Timothy McVeigh did that and his was a federal sentence.

Actually I think its a fair set up as it gives a chance for a conviction to be reviewed thus its a way to be sure so to speak that the law has been justly carried out to that point before the sentence is carried out. Or for the condemned to say get it over with.

Thank you Stealhead.

appeal it was. When writing my post I kept on getting the word apple-No it's not apple-it's start with ap. but the word apple kept on coming up in my head-so I wrote forgot the word

Markus

[donna52522]

Thank you Stealhead.

appeal it was. When writing my post I kept on getting the word apple-No it's not apple-it's start with ap. but the word apple kept on coming up in my head-so I wrote forgot the word

Markus

Stupid apples, they are supposed to keep the doctor away....Yet I eat one every day and Dr. Who is still on. :/\\!!

[Oberon]

Stupid apples, they are supposed to keep the doctor away....Yet I eat one every day and Dr. Who is still on. :/\\!!

Try a banana, good source of potassium. :yep:

[Torplexed]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/df/b7/de/dfb7de1809349cc5a442c02665cf1f6d.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAItvqyPoJ0
:O:

[Platapus]

An apple a day will keep the doctor away. But you have to throw it just right.

[Tango589]

They should execute him they way King Edward II was supposedly executed, by skewering his cat-flap with a red-hot poker. That would deter other would-be terrorists!

[August]

An apple a day will keep the doctor away. But you have to throw it just right.

QFT! :)