Explosions at Boston Marathon

[razark]

Edit:
I apologize. I forgot which thread I was replying to, and on further thought, I regret the level of snarkiness I brought here.

[AndyJWest]

Actually, that raises an interesting point. If you look at the DHS budget, a large chunk of their expenditure (57% by my calculations) goes on 'Customs and Border Protection', the Coast Guard, and 'Immigration and Customs Enforcement' - given Bubble's concerns over immigration, I'd have thought he'd be all in favour of them...

2012 DHS Budget: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2012-BUD/pdf/BUDGET-2012-BUD-12.pdf

[Stealhead]

Splitting hairs, trying to pivot.Nice try! DHS does not need to be in Army style gear, with rifles, APC's, Humvees. I am sure they have rocket launchers in their vehicles. I would not doubt they have attack helos, laws are supposed to prevent civilian aircraft from being armed but hey since when did the law mean anything to the current government right?



Paranoid lately? I do not know if you really are paranoid or if you just are bored and post such nonsense for the attention or what your deal is.

Honestly, I do not really care either but clearly "you still do not get it" as Sailor Steve has said so many times.

[NeonSamurai]

Can we please hold back on the conspiracy theories and general politicization of this event at least for now?

[Armistead]

Splitting hairs, trying to pivot.Nice try! DHS does not need to be in Army style gear, with rifles, APC's, Humvees. I am sure they have rocket launchers in their vehicles. I would not doubt they have attack helos, laws are supposed to prevent civilian aircraft from being armed but hey since when did the law mean anything to the current government right?

The whole point was, the feds have way more capability than they should.Show me real reason they can be trusted? Exactly, you can't.

I agree

Damn GW Bush and the right wing nuts for starting all these programs...

Obama cut HLS bombing prevention by 45% and many other cuts to HLS, which I guess you would agree is a good thing or now is it his fault?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310110/Obama-administration-SLASHED-budget-domestic-bombing-prevention-45-cent-says-Homeland-Security-Assistant-Secretary.html

[Bubblehead1980]

I agree

Damn GW Bush and the right wing nuts for starting all these programs...

Obama cut HLS bombing prevention by 45% and many other cuts to HLS, which I guess you would agree is a good thing or now is it his fault?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310110/Obama-administration-SLASHED-budget-domestic-bombing-prevention-45-cent-says-Homeland-Security-Assistant-Secretary.html

Bush is a NEOCON which is a liberal with different foreign policy views, almost as bad. Bush started DHS as a reactionary thing, don't believe it was the Army it is now when he left office.

[Bubblehead1980]

Paranoid lately? I do not know if you really are paranoid or if you just are bored and post such nonsense for the attention or what your deal is.

Honestly, I do not really care either but clearly "you still do not get it" as Sailor Steve has said so many times.

Not trusting the government is not paranoid, it is how everyone should be as they have shown time and time against they can't be trust, not just ours, it is the nature of government.

My deal is I enjoy debates whether in person or on a forum and I enjoy spreading the word. I get plenty of private messages from those who agree but are not the types to argue on here etc because this place does lean left, I enjoy watching certain people get angry because they are sensitive and live in their little bubble.Just like before election, I got 20+ people who were strong obama supporters to switch over because I did my best to expose to people withing my corner of this country, the truth! I simply told them things, then had them look it up.Unfortunately, we lost but there things out of my control.That is how real change comes about though, spread the truth, even if it takes a lot of time, something may get through, set off a light bulb etc.

One great joy for now as I am getting older is so many people I went to high school and college with, who were just far left as they could be, now that we are a little older, they have had a career, etc some are married, they have changed or are in the process.They are seeing how wrong the left wing is on so many things.I love it, because I have been fighting this fight since I was in high school.I recall debate where so many kids who just stupid liberals, because they felt they were supposed to be.I was raised better than that and am happy that via that I was able to see the truth of things such as how keynesian economics just don't work. I learned that our saving grace in our country is the rights we have granted by the constitution.I also learned that there are forces, as there always have been that seek to take these rights away to suit their agenda.

[AndyJWest]

this place does lean left

That depends where you look at it from...

[Hottentot]

I enjoy watching certain people get angry because they are sensitive and live in their little bubble.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are getting angry because you simply don't seem to get it. Not that in the light of this thread and the others you have posted in I'd expect you to have enough common sense not to use a tragedy for your own soapboxing, but FFS, when a moderator (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2043194&postcount=254), multiple ordinary members and even the owner of the bloody forum (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2042025&postcount=91) ask it to stop, I'd be optimistic enough to believe that even you would get the clue.

[Tribesman]

Bush is a NEOCON which is a liberal with different foreign policy views, almost as bad. Bush started DHS as a reactionary thing, don't believe it was the Army it is now when he left office.
if ever a demonstration was needed that someone simply does not understand the words they use that post makes a good example.

[CCIP]

So back on topic...

The internet seems to think it's this guy:
http://i.imgur.com/DYg0fqF.jpg

No ID or word from officials on him yet, but a couple more pictures have emerged, showing him in the crowd with the suspected bag:
http://i.imgur.com/8dHaVvw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iOMXbdz.jpg

[Cybermat47]

even the owner of the bloody forum (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2042025&postcount=91) ask it to stop,

Neal must be a shapeshifting homosexual lizard man!

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/8841/photoapr18133521.gif
OH MY GAAAAAAAHD!

[Tchocky]

So back on topic...

The internet seems to think it's this guy:


No ID or word from officials on him yet, but a couple more pictures have emerged, showing him in the crowd with the suspected bag:
http://i.imgur.com/8dHaVvw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iOMXbdz.jpg

I worry about this kind of thing. There is a kind of immense power available with the kind of crowdsourced crimefighting that reddit/4chan seem to be getting on with these last few days.

The thing to remember is that none of these people know what they are doing or know what to look for. I'm not saying law enforcement types are superhuman picture/video analysts, but it is what they get paid for. The kind of amateur detective work going on could badly mess up the lives of innocent people - then again I won't be saying this if someone on a messageboard ends up collaring the bomber(s).

Let's just say I'm on the fence so far.

[CCIP]

I worry about this kind of thing. There is a kind of immense power available with the kind of crowdsourced crimefighting that reddit/4chan seem to be getting on with these last few days.

The thing to remember is that none of these people know what they are doing or know what to look for. I'm not saying law enforcement types are superhuman picture/video analysts, but it is what they get paid for. The kind of amateur detective work going on could badly mess up the lives of innocent people - then again I won't be saying this if someone on a messageboard ends up collaring the bomber(s).

Let's just say I'm on the fence so far.

Oh I agree with that. I think it's unavoidable and interesting, and I'm also rather on the fence and uncomfortable about it. Digital lynch mobs are the last thing we need, but it's also hard not to see the potential benefits of "crowdsourcing" with things like this, and there have been useful cases of it at work. On the other hand the crowd have got it very wrong before and caused a lot of headache to some innocent people.
That said, with the proliferation of cameras and the internet, it's just going to happen whether one likes it or not. The information will get out, and will get attention either way.

I'm just hoping the professionals look at all leads and get this sorted out quickly.

[Sailor Steve]

Not trusting the government is not paranoid, it is how everyone should be as they have shown time and time against they can't be trust, not just ours, it is the nature of government.
I see that despite my warning and the fact that several members and at least one other moderator have asked you nicely, you still insist on turning this tragedy into a referendum for your own personal agenda.

Now I see that you have the website owner asking you to stop your games. You might want to rethink the way you say things.

[Vince82]

Creepy guy. Aside from the obvious fact that he's carrying the bag and the way he's holding on to it (must be heavy). It doesn't seem he belongs, his posture isn't right and the beard. About everything is wrong about him.

I'm not saying that means anything, but at least those middle eastern guys on the other pictures look like they belong.

I don't think it's bad to post pictures like this on the internet. I mean if it isn't him he could post a message with an explaination.

[Fitz505]

I wonder if they have a photo of him walking away without the bag, because what I see is a camera bag with the top right unzipped and a camera lens sticking out. At least, that's what I think I see.

[mookiemookie]

I worry about this kind of thing. There is a kind of immense power available with the kind of crowdsourced crimefighting that reddit/4chan seem to be getting on with these last few days.

The thing to remember is that none of these people know what they are doing or know what to look for. I'm not saying law enforcement types are superhuman picture/video analysts, but it is what they get paid for. The kind of amateur detective work going on could badly mess up the lives of innocent people - then again I won't be saying this if someone on a messageboard ends up collaring the bomber(s).

Let's just say I'm on the fence so far.

Those pictures were actually being distributed by a friend of mine who works at CrimeDex which is kind of an information clearinghouse for law enforcement. I think there's more to that than just some amateur internet sleuths.

[donna52522]

It doesn't seem he belongs, his posture isn't right and the beard.

Oh no, I know several guys with beards, should I alert the authorities?

Oh wait, my towns police chief has a beard, should I alert Bubblehead?

[Bilge_Rat]

Well you have always had civilians sending in tips to the police, it's not an internet phenomena. Most turn out to be useless. Even if someone is found, his guilt would still have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Oberon]

Well you have always had civilians sending in tips to the police, it's not an internet phenomena. Most turn out to be useless. Even if someone is found, his guilt would still have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The problem lies with the potential of internet vigilante-ism.

[Tchocky]

Those pictures were actually being distributed by a friend of mine who works at CrimeDex which is kind of an information clearinghouse for law enforcement. I think there's more to that than just some amateur internet sleuths.

Huh, that's interesting. I was wondering how the images got out there

[donna52522]

Those pictures were actually being distributed by a friend of mine who works at CrimeDex which is kind of an information clearinghouse for law enforcement. I think there's more to that than just some amateur internet sleuths.

It was a large sporting event, thousands if not tens of thousands of people there were carrying bags, backpacks, and coolers....any one of which can be pointed out in a crowd as "looking suspicious".

[AVGWarhawk]

It was a large sporting event, thousands if not tens of thousands of people there were carrying bags, backpacks, and coolers....any one of which can be pointed out in a crowd as "looking suspicious".

The backpacks look very similar. Leaving this person unaddressed would not be advisable. Everyone in the area is suspect. Even those carrying hello kitty nap sacks.

[Armistead]

News {CNN} reports that pictures have been passed out to LE only, but may later release to the public. Probably nothing more than they want to identify and rule out people.

[Stealhead]

The backpacks look very similar. Leaving this person unaddressed would not be advisable. Everyone in the area is suspect. Even those carrying hello kitty nap sacks.

My understanding is that the FBI has not released any photos or footage that they are specifically looking at this would be logical for obvious reasons.

Of course some of the photos they may be looking at are already in the public domain and can be viewed by anyone of course only the FBI knows the true persons of interest.this fact allows just about anyone to look though and find any person that they think is suspect and assume that the FBI must be thinking the same thing.

What the FBI is doing most likely is looking for people with items that they deem suspicious they then are most likely attempting as best as possible to ID the person/s and then question them to narrow things down.The FBI most likely with the data base they have gathered samples of the nylon bag and had someone analyze them in order to id the exact manufacturer of the bag so they can know what the nag looks like intact they are likely looking for people who have a specific model black nylon bag produced by a specific company that of course is black.

[Tchocky]

NYTimes reporting that FBI will release the images.

[TarJak]

Just watching an FBI media conference where they have released photos of the two suspects. The backpack and cap guys look like thier main targets right now.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston

[donna52522]

The backpacks look very similar. Leaving this person unaddressed would not be advisable. Everyone in the area is suspect. Even those carrying hello kitty nap sacks.

Like I said....any one in the crowd can be viewed as suspicious. :doh:

Sounds like you were disagreeing with me by saying the same thing I said.

[Stealhead]

Just watching an FBI media conference where they have released photos of the two suspects. The backpack and cap guys look like thier main targets right now.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston


Must be getting a lot of hits its crashed or at least you cant get through.

[Ducimus]

Must be getting a lot of hits its crashed or at least you cant get through.

CNN has a video where it really zooms in on the photos.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/boston-blasts/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The photo's don't look anything like the ones posted earlier in this thread.

[bertieck476]

The bag carried by the man with white cap could easily be the bag by the postbox in other photos prior to the explosion.

[Stealhead]

CNN has a video where it really zooms in on the photos.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/boston-blasts/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The photo's don't look anything like the ones posted earlier in this thread.


If you are referring to the two men in black jackets and one wearing a Punisher skull hat that would be because both of those guys went to the FBI and spoke with them so that they could confirm that they where not involved.

Not sure what outlet had penned those guys but just before that FBI briefing all the outlets stated to imply what I had felt all along;That the FBI had not publicly released any photos until this 5 PM briefing.

Some had the man in the blue jacket also posted here and I also saw some showing a man running whose clothes had been torn by the blast.You know how it goes though people want to stir the pot now of course they will shut up at least about one thing.

I think that the video footage is more useful because people can see how they walk which is more useful than a simple photo.They say that every human has a distinctive gait much like a finger print though it would take a computer analysis to measure the person gait I understand that there are some projects developing this technology.

I think what the FBI looked for was people showing up at certain times and also certain body language.Notice in the video the two men they do not display the body language that you expect to see at a public gathering theirs is almost hostile unlike other people around them who are enjoying themselves.The spacing is also interesting to me they are close but not too close to each other.My guess is that they looked for this behavior first then tried to find those same faces in crowds in shots that where poorer but more expansive.You ID a suspect person in more clear shot then try to find in him somewhere else or in a certain place for example where the bombs where placed.That would be my analysis of what the agents that where involved in this part of the investigation did.

[swamprat69er]

Oh no, I know several guys with beards, should I alert the authorities?

Oh wait, my towns police chief has a beard, should I alert Bubblehead?

I have a beard. Should I turn myself in to Bubblehead?

[Armistead]

I have a beard. Should I turn myself in to Bubblehead?

If you were carrying a pack and seen laying it down where the bomb went off and walking away, they might consider you.

One fact, these are great pictures and you know these two people have seen them. If they're innocent, they would want to step forward and clear their name. I think if no one steps forward soon, then it's them.

My guess is they will be identified quickly.

[August]

Speaking of beards does the suspect in the white hat have a Captain Ahab? It kind of looks like he does but it's hard to tell.

[Armistead]

Looks like it on the better profile.

and no doubt there will be some profiling here, both look mid-eastern to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

Like I said....any one in the crowd can be viewed as suspicious. :doh:

Sounds like you were disagreeing with me by saying the same thing I said.

It was in response to this post

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2043355&postcount=269

Followed up to the post I originally quoted.

[Stealhead]

Looks like it on the better profile.

and no doubt there will be some profiling here, both look mid-eastern to me.


Maybe on the one in the white ball cap though he looks more Persian or Turick than Arab.The other man hard to say he could be anything from a white with a dark tone or a Hispanic or Arab or many other several other ethnic groups.

[Vince82]

I have a beard. Should I turn myself in to Bubblehead?

Subsimmers are excluded for obvious reasons.:Kaleun_Salute:

[geetrue]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/redditors-may-found-picture-boston-235710891.html



Reddit, which has been studying every angle of this case from the beginning, responded quickly.

Commenters on the Reddit thread seem confident that the image is not photoshopped,
though this question is still up in the air.


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/hQjtjeSE8JTNLQCK3dKYLw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYyMA--/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/Finance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/suspect-2.jpg


Book him Dano :yep:

[geetrue]

You can see the second suspect in this picture, but it is copyrited.

You'll have to look for yourselves ... http://i.imgur.com/NFPlOCI.jpg

He's twenty feet behind the guy in the white hat on backwards behind the girl

These guys at reddit are something else ... 6,000 volunteers working on the case

[August]

You can see the second suspect in this picture, but it is copyrited.

You'll have to look for yourselves ... http://i.imgur.com/NFPlOCI.jpg

He's twenty feet behind the guy in the white hat on backwards behind the girl

These guys at reddit are something else ... 6,000 volunteers working on the case

To the right of the girl in the pink jacket?

[geetrue]

To the right of the girl in the pink jacket?


Yes! I think that's him ... hard to tell, but the first man has no backpack.

Check this out the man that ID the suspect lost both of his legs, but ID him anyway: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-19/boston-bombing-victim-in-iconic-photo-helped-identify-attackers.html

Jeff Bauman looked into the eyes of the man who tried to kill him.



Just before 3 p.m. on April 15, Bauman was waiting among the crowd for his girlfriend to cross the finish line at the Boston Marathon. A man wearing a cap, sunglasses and a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt looked at Jeff, 27, and dropped a bag at his feet, his brother, Chris Bauman, said in an interview.
Two and a half minutes later, the bag exploded, tearing Jeff’s legs apart. A picture of him in a wheelchair, bloodied and ashen, was broadcast around the world as he was rushed to Boston Medical Center. He lost both legs below the knee.

[geetrue]

I took a close up of these two on my computer and the guy in the white hat is the same one the FBI is looking for,
but the one behind seen 23' feet behind him is more white than the first suspect the FBI showed ... plus he has what looks like a red coat on his arm.

But what if the first man has a fake nose ... I'm thinking this due to why wear a white hat?

[eddie]

More trouble in Boston, shooting of a security officer at MIT, and sounds of gun fire, and what has been described as 2 loud booms. More bombs?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17817173-chaotic-scene-in-boston-area-after-explosions-gunfire-fatal-shooting-of-mit-officer?lite

[Dowly]

One down, one to go.

[Vince82]

yeah they got the one with the black cap.

[TarJak]

According to news here the two suspects were in a car at MIT together and the white cap escaped on foot.

[Platapus]

I don't like dead suspects. Sometimes you never can find out if you got the right guy.

[Tchocky]

AP reporting the suspects are Chechen.

[Jimbuna]

Here's hoping they get the other one before anyone else is harmed or killed.

[Tchocky]

http://www.wbur.org/listen/live

[Penguin]

local news channel, still accessible atm: http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
they repeatedly sum up the situation for the folks who just got up

[Oberon]

I don't like dead suspects. Sometimes you never can find out if you got the right guy.

I hope they manage to get the second guy alive, but at the end of the day, you've got to put the lives of the public and law enforcement first.

Chechens? That's unusual, normally they blow stuff up in Moscow rather than America. :hmmm: But, America would still be a valid target for them.

Sounds like, according to the livestream link just posted, that SWAT teams have discovered something.

[Tchocky]

Well, they're going house to house in Watertown - so a lot of things look like "they found the house!"

[Skybird]

Possible students from Chechen, Russia. Does not sound like a Nazi plot anymore. I had this on top of my list of possible scenarios, like in case of the ricin letters as well.

[VirtualVikingX]

Possible students from Chechen, Russia. Does not sound like a Nazi plot anymore. I had this on top of my list of possible scenarios, like in case of the ricin letters as well.

You specifically suspected Chechen perpetrators in this case? May I ask why?

[Oberon]

You specifically suspected Chechen perpetrators in this case? May I ask why?

It's being reported:

1148:

News agency Associated Press is reporting that the Boston bomb suspects are from a Russian region near Chechnya, and have lived in the US for at least one year. That information is as yet unconfirmed.


Naturally, like with the Boston bombings and the 'arrest' the other day, whether it'll still be the case within an hour or two is another question.

[Tchocky]

From what I hear the name of the suspect at large was discovered from a drivers license picture match.

aaaaand police are surrounding an address in Cambridge now. Norfolk Street.

[Skybird]

You specifically suspected Chechen perpetrators in this case? May I ask why?

German news report that, with reference to US media sources. Two main suspects should be brothers.

[Oberon]

Entirety of Boston has been put into 'shelter in place' mode, aka residents told to stay indoors, keep their doors locked and not to open up unless a properly identified police officer asks them to.

[TarJak]

Both suspects names as the Tsarnev brothers. The older brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26 was killed earlier and the younger brother Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass is still on the loose.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/terrorist-manhunt-underway-after-shootout-in-boston-area-20130419-2i4xc.html

Subway and Amtrak stations have been shut down and traffic in and out of Watertown has been halted.

[Oberon]

Both suspects names as the Tsarnev brothers. The older brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26 was killed earlier and the younger brother Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass is still on the loose.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/terrorist-manhunt-underway-after-shootout-in-boston-area-20130419-2i4xc.html

It's said that Tamerlan had an IED on his chest and may have suffered damage from it, also that during the incident in which Tamerlan was apprehended, his brother ran over him in a car whilst escaping.

Quite dramatic.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sounded like a war zone in Boston last night. :o

[Jimbuna]

Poetic justice.

[Tribesman]

You specifically suspected Chechen perpetrators in this case? May I ask why?
He means that he thought it was domestic nazis in both cases.

[Oberon]

It's all kicking off on the 7News video. Chopper overhead, K-9 units, SWAT teams focusing on a grey house.

EDIT: The police just shut the guy on the scene down.

[Jimbuna]

A swift conclusion.

[Oberon]

Sounds like they might have apprehended someone.

[Dowly]

In other news: WBC is planning to picket the Boston bombing funerals. :shifty:

[Jimbuna]

I should imagine that would go down like a lead balloon :shifty:

[JU_88]

Just heard that one of the Bombers is dead....
-here's a fitting song to play him out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CYkZcPYXQI&feature=player_detailpage#t=118s

[Armistead]

Just woke up from a long night of poker, does anyone know their motive or what they're pissed off about?

[Oberon]

Just woke up from a long night of poker, does anyone know their motive or what they're pissed off about?

Not yet, one brother had a suicide vest and was shot multiple times, and then run over by the other guy as he made his get away, he then died in hospital.
The other guy is still at large.
They're Chechens but they've been in the US for about eight years, possibly Muslim in origin, but that's about it. Just not enough info at the moment, but the FBI, BPD and Army are in the area and are combing it very thoroughly.
At the moment, from what I can gather, I think they may have cornered the guy and are trying to get him to surrender, but that's pure guesswork based on what I've been hearing from WHDH.

[TarJak]

CNN says police activity outside the house has 'dramatically increased'. Police have guns drawn outside the house and have told reporters to back away.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/terrorist-manhunt-underway-after-shootout-in-boston-area-20130419-2i4xc.html#ixzz2QvKftJsn

[Oberon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINnCBACIAAJ9pz.jpg

And, then, of course, the inevitable:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINv5ZCCEAAODKB.png:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINv7TXCQAAY60H.png:large

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

[TarJak]

:nope:

The brother's uncle has just been interviewed live and he says they are ethnic Chechen muslims born in Kyrgestan and have been in the US since 2003. He calls BS on the act being religious or ethnically motivated and called the brothers losers.

EDIT: Their father says they were set up: http://www.smh.com.au/world/my-children-were-set-up-father-claims-20130419-2i6c4.html

[Skybird]

German news reports that the dead older brother had a youtube account where he linked to fundamentalist hate videos calling for jihad in the name of Islam and against the Sufis' sub-branch that is playing a slightly bigger role in Chechnya than in most other Islamic countries. He last logged in to that account in February.

The younger brother should have had an account for a Russian social network that is something like Facebook, where he had linked some material of not so serious nature - but still linked to a Quran recitation and a political pamphlet calling Muslims to arms over the war in Syria.

Reported like this in German Frankfurter Rundschau.

Here I was, thinking just for once not "Islam" at first when I read something on terror - and dang, immediately get punished. Stupid me.

[Armistead]

German news reports that the dead older brother had a youtube account where he linked to fundamentalist hate videos calling for jihad in the name of Islam and against the Sufis' sub-branch that is playing a slightly bigger role in Chechnya than in most other Islamic countries. He last logged in to that account in February.

The younger brother should have had an account for a Russian social network that is something like Facebook, where he had linked some material of not so serious nature - but still linked to a Quran recitation and a political pamphlet calling Muslims to arms over the war in Syria.

Reported like this in German Frankfurter Rundschau.

Here I was, thinking just for once not "Islam" at first when I read something on terror - and dang, immediately get punished. Stupid me.

Seems it's either white entitled spoiled video gamers or Muslim radicals these days...

[Oberon]

German news reports that the dead older brother had a youtube account where he linked to fundamentalist hate videos calling for jihad in the name of Islam and against the Sufis' sub-branch that is playing a slightly bigger role in Chechnya than in most other Islamic countries. He last logged in to that account in February.

The younger brother should have had an account for a Russian social network that is something like Facebook, where he had linked some material of not so serious nature - but still linked to a Quran recitation and a political pamphlet calling Muslims to arms over the war in Syria.

Reported like this in German Frankfurter Rundschau.

Here I was, thinking just for once not "Islam" at first when I read something on terror - and dang, immediately get punished. Stupid me.

Be aware that there have been multiple reports of various 'accounts' of the people involved, twitter, facebook and the like that have already been proven to be false. While it is entirely possible that they are jihadists, it cannot be confirmed unless they capture the last suspect alive...which is not looking that likely to occur, or of course, when they finish picking through the belongings of the men.

[Stealhead]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINnCBACIAAJ9pz.jpg

And, then, of course, the inevitable:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINv5ZCCEAAODKB.png:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BINv7TXCQAAY60H.png:large

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


So true I think Americans in general have the most horrible understanding of the world and different nations. I'm not saying that you have to hug and tolerate everyone but you should know the difference between the Czech Republic and Chechnya.Not to mention the fact that some kid who spoke with the media that knew the younger brother is the source that they are from Chechnya highly reliable that.Then the media hears that the older brother was born in Russia nut he is 26 years old so that means the entire Soviet Union(1987). then the media with its "expertise" decides that they must be Chechen.

Even though no government official has yet stated exactly where they are from nor their exact ethnic background(that alone should imply nothing even if they turn out to be Chechen) nor the motive nor the connections if there are any.

I recall once in high school the teacher asked a student to point out the United Sates on a map he walked up and pointed at Italy.I feel out of my desk in laughter.

You'd be shocked at how many Americans think we have been fighting Iran for the last ten years.

Yeah, we are that stupid collectively.

[flatsixes]

<i>Yeah, we are that stupid collectively.</i>
I say that, collectively, we're right about average. :cool:

[Hottentot]

I'd like to believe that at least bunch of those posters are trolling and just created a running gag: someone mixed Chechnya with Czech and now the rest are making fun of it.

Please tell me it's so...

[mookiemookie]

So true I think Americans in general have the most horrible understanding of the world and different nations. I'm not saying that you have to hug and tolerate everyone but you should know the difference between the Czech Republic and Chechnya.

You do have to give them some credit for saying "Czech Republic" and not "Czechoslovakia"

[Stealhead]

<i>Yeah, we are that stupid collectively.</i>
I say that, collectively, we're right about average. :cool:


If by that you mean that everyone else in the world is just as collectively stupid you' re most likely correct and that is why we have some many problems in this world I suppose.

Everyone sees how they are different but never how they are the same.Everyone resorts to violence to "solve" problems.

[Skybird]

Be aware that there have been multiple reports of various 'accounts' of the people involved, twitter, facebook and the like that have already been proven to be false. While it is entirely possible that they are jihadists, it cannot be confirmed unless they capture the last suspect alive...which is not looking that likely to occur, or of course, when they finish picking through the belongings of the men.

I do not think they are organized jihadists, nor do I think they have links to a terror network of Islamic origin. I assume they are two social losers failing to come to terms with the new society they arrived in after the fled from Chechnya, and the older one then trying to find consolation in Islam, and being lured off track by that. German TV just mentioned also that he may have been a Salafist sympathizer, at least some Salfist material was posted on his account, that is a very dangerous and unforgiving school of Islam that is giving us plenty of troubles here in Germany, too. The older brother then probably pulled the younger one down with him. I assume both are lonely wolves, and not part of a greater network - else it would have been likely that said network would have organized either their martyrdom or their get-away.

That is my new working hypothesis at least.

[Stealhead]

I do not think they are organized jihadists, nor do I think they have links to a terror network of Islamic origin. I assume they are two social losers failing to come to terms with the new society they arrived in after the fled from Chechnya, and the older one then trying to find consolation in Islam, and being lured off track by that. German TV just mentioned also that he may have been a Salafist sympathizer, at least some Salfist material was posted on his account, that is a very dangerous and unforgiving school of Islam that is giving us plenty of troubles here in Germany, too. The older brother then probably pulled the younger one down with him. I assume both are lonely wolves, and not part of a greater network - else it would have been likely that said network would have organized either their martyrdom or their get-away.



That is my new working hypothesis at least.

The information that you are reading is pure speculation the a German newspaper can not know anything about the two men when the US Government has released no more information about them than their names and a few other basic facts.They have not even said where they came from originally yet.

[Stealhead]

The aunt of the two men is on TV right now they(the two men) are from Kyrgyzstan.

[nikimcbee]

The aunt of the two men is on TV right now they(the two men) are from Kyrgyzstan.

Beat me to it. This whole thing is going to be an absolute circus, if they are all as animated as her.:88)

[Méo]

I hate to judge before all the facts are in, but it seems obvious that it's a nutcase issue rather than an ideologic one. :nope:

The aunt of the two men is on TV right now

"We all, at some point, deny the truth in favor of a lie that feels better."

Good thing that the uncle seems more reasonable.

[nikimcbee]

I think that whole, extended family needs to lock the door, lawyer up and appoint an official spokesman.

[Armistead]

I would love to hear it when the uncle and aunt talk on the phone..

[nikimcbee]

I would love to here it when the uncle and aunt talk on the phone..

I think we have a new reality TV show on TLC.:o

On a serious note, Assuming these 2 guys are responsible for the bombing.

Did they act alone (own initiative)
or
did they have help?

If they had help, I think we need to call the expert on Chechen terrorism.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_slideshow_large/putin_09_04_2012.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=j4VT8phXei8_DM&tbnid=Kyw2N2gvNMlA_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalpost.com%2Fphoto%2F5718 148%2Fputin-09-04-2012&ei=O5NxUZeEEuTV2QX9zoDADg&bvm=bv.45373924,d.b2I&psig=AFQjCNE_Rc7-2qwDb86UvcgsLJdsR_bwdQ&ust=1366484118117236)

Yes, I be there.
What? Yes I bring migs and tanks.

[JU_88]

Heh, Putin, love him or loathe him, is quite a character....

"Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains."

I wonder if he actually said that? or if it was just one of those fabricated internet misquotes :hmmm:, this being my personal Favorite...

http://www.thezooom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Abraham-Lincoln-Quotes.jpg

[geetrue]

Found a loose connection with North Korea in all of this ...

The father, just a few minutes ago on the phone calling from
Kazakhstan, said that he thinks the Boston police have killed
his two sons as a cover up to the real bombers.

One of the boys just visited his father two years ago and one of
the boys had been here since he was eight years old.

They came from the Russian region near Chechnya, which has been plagued by an Islamist insurgency stemming from separatist wars ...

The two men suspected in the Boston bombings are reportedly from Chechnya, a Russian-controlled state with a long history of Islamist conflict and terrorism.

Here's a map is this the Chech Republic or is that somewhere else?


http://www.map-world.us/system/files/imagecache/fullSize/images/kazakhstan.jpg


Now for the loose connection: http://www.atimes.com/c-asia/AK19Ag01.html

North Korea purchased Mig 21's from this country for the bargin price of 8 million dollars


In August 1999, news reports indicated that North Korea had purchased 30 to 40 Kazakh MiG-21s.


But the MiG affair has thrown a wrench into relations with the West. The United States has responded with threats to suspend the $75 million in aid it supplies Kazakhstan each year

[Stealhead]

I would love to hear it when the uncle and aunt talk on the phone..


It would be in Russian though their conversation.I suspect that they do not speak to each other judging from what the aunt said.

From what the aunt said it seems that part of the family is ethically Chechen but they lived in Kyrgyzstan.In the USSR Stalin made sure to force ethnic peoples away from their home region and moved Russians in.They did this for control reasons of course.

Judging from what the aunt and uncle said it sounds like the family lived in what is now Kyrgyzstan for some time certainly pre USSR break up.When the Soviets left a place like Kyrgyzstan would not be a very welcoming place for a minority like a Chechen.

I think that the elder brother is a nut case and took advantage of the younger brother and convinced him to go long with the plot not to say that this would make the 19 year old any less guilty.

[Stealhead]

Found a loose connection with North Korea in all of this ...

The father, just a few minutes ago on the phone calling from
Kazakhstan, said that he thinks the Boston police have killed
his two sons as a cover up to the real bombers.

One of the boys just visited his father two years ago and one of
the boys had been here since he was eight years old.

They came from the Russian region near Chechnya, which has been plagued by an Islamist insurgency stemming from separatist wars ...

The two men suspected in the Boston bombings are reportedly from Chechnya, a Russian-controlled state with a long history of Islamist conflict and terrorism.

Here's a map is this the Chech Republic or is that somewhere else?


http://www.map-world.us/system/files/imagecache/fullSize/images/kazakhstan.jpg


Now for the loose connection: http://www.atimes.com/c-asia/AK19Ag01.html

North Korea purchased Mig 21's from this country for the bargin price of 8 million dollars

Uh no.

[JU_88]

Found a loose connection with North Korea in all of this ...

Huh :06:

[Méo]

Huh :06:

Uh no.

I feel a bit like Sheldon on this, not sure if this is sarcasm or not...:hmmm:

[mapuc]

There's one thing that have made me mad

Throughout the day I have heard the danish and Swedish journalist saying that it's important that we do not generalize the Muslim, just because two Muslim was behind the Boston bombings

I do remember clearly our journalist saying after the tragedy in Norway

"That's typical right wing"

Markus

[eddie]

geetrue, here are maps of Czech Republic.:)

http://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+czech+republic&hl=en&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS371US371&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2q5xUeT6Ho2DrQHDnoGoDw&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1218&bih=632#imgrc=_

[geetrue]

geetrue, here are maps of Czech Republic.:)

http://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+czech+republic&hl=en&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS371US371&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2q5xUeT6Ho2DrQHDnoGoDw&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1218&bih=632#imgrc=_


Thank you eddie ... I think they were making fun of my connection with North Korea ...

sometimes people forget old men on dial up need help

[JU_88]

There's one thing that have made me mad

Throughout the day I have heard the danish and Swedish journalist saying that it's important that we do not generalize the Muslim, just because two Muslim was behind the Boston bombings

I do remember clearly our journalist saying after the tragedy in Norway

"That's typical right wing"

Markus

Yes its important we dont reach conclusions like:
A Muslim planted bomb = All Mulims want to plant bombs
A right winger shot into a crowd = All right wingers want to shoot at crowds.
Because when we do, we have lost every last drop of intelligence.
Jesus, who hires these people, next they'll be telling us its important to breathe :P....

[Stealhead]

There's one thing that have made me mad

Throughout the day I have heard the danish and Swedish journalist saying that it's important that we do not generalize the Muslim, just because two Muslim was behind the Boston bombings

I do remember clearly our journalist saying after the tragedy in Norway

"That's typical right wing"

Markus


Ever since the Nazi party in WWII I will not trust any German,after the Oklahoma City Bombing I do not trust white people,after 9/11 I do not trust Muslims.:D

I am being very sarcastic.

[JU_88]

Ever since the Nazi party in WWII I will not trust any German,after the Oklahoma City Bombing I do not trust white people,after 9/11 I do not trust Muslims.:D

I am being very sarcastic.

Yeah, White German Muslims are the worst, constantly plotting to invade poland with box cutters and truck bombs, they dont even stop for lunch. :03:

[Stealhead]

Yeah, White German Muslims are the worst, constantly plotting to invade poland with box cutters and truck bombs, they dont even stop for lunch. :03:


No no the worst people are white,redneck,German,Japanese,Chechen Mexican,American,Canadian,black,Muslim,Christian, reverse right wing,reverse left wing people.

[TarJak]

Governor Deval Patrick says the stay indoors request has ended, but members of the community are asked to remain vigilant and look out for suspicious items.

[Skybird]

Yes its important we dont reach conclusions like:
A Muslim planted bomb = All Mulims want to plant bombs
A right winger shot into a crowd = All right wingers want to shoot at crowds.
Because when we do, we have lost every last drop of intelligence.
Jesus, who hires these people, next they'll be telling us its important to breathe :P....

Certain ideologies trigger certain motivations and attitudes easier than others, by motivating them, favoring them, directly or indirectly advocating them. Not all motivations are equal in respectability and humane quality. Neither are all ideologies. Some are worse than others, some are better than others.

[Armistead]

Ever since the Nazi party in WWII I will not trust any German,after the Oklahoma City Bombing I do not trust white people,after 9/11 I do not trust Muslims.:D

I am being very sarcastic.

You forgot women....

[Cybermat47]

You forgot women....

Zeus' final, bitter curse upon mankind... you can't live with them, you can't live without them.

I learned that in high school. The hard way :yep:

[Armistead]

Lot's of gunshots being heard near new reporters and police in a hurry.

[Armistead]

Zeus' final, bitter curse upon mankind... you can't live with them, you can't live without them.

I learned that in high school. The hard way :yep:

High school, wait until your first divorce...

[Madox58]

High school, wait until your first divorce...
Or your second.

[Tchocky]

A friend in Watertown says the sirens are going crazy as of a few minutes ago

[Tchocky]

Also lots of gunshots in the area

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully they have found him.

[geetrue]

The news conference could've been just "talking points"

because just minutes later after reporting they had not found the suspect yet

gun shots rang out with a dozen unmarked cars rushing into the watertown
area ...

I bet they got him cornered :up:

[Armistead]

Sounds like they have him cornered.

[Tchocky]

Unconfirmed reports say a body has been found on a boat in a driveway. Kind of vague as to alive or dead.

[Jimbuna]

Yep...just announced he is pinned down.

Not long now hopefully.

[JU_88]

Certain ideologies trigger certain motivations and attitudes easier than others, by motivating them, favoring them, directly or indirectly advocating them. Not all motivations are equal in respectability and humane quality. Neither are all ideologies. Some are worse than others, some are better than others.

That maybe so, their are still vastly more personality types than there are ideologies, when someone takes an ideology down a negative path, is it just the ideology? or are there a combination of other factors at work also?
And, of the many inhumane acts are carried out accoss the world each day, how many, have some mainstream ideology as the main driving force behind them?

Anyway, I know where this is going as we have been though it before (more or less)
Ill leave it at, "<insert what you want here> doesnt murder people, people do".

[mapuc]

According to the danish newschannel TV2 News
They have pulled back from Watertown without having caught him

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Looks like he was spotted hiding on and may well be trapped on a boat.

[Méo]

Kind of vague as to alive or dead.

Hope they get him alive, death is a too easy escape for this kind of scum. :huh:

Let them have a ''nice interrogation'' (sarcasm) and let him rot in jail for the rest of his life. :dead:

[Jimbuna]

Apparently the boat is situated in a residential backyard.

[Madox58]

BOMB it!!
Send in a drone and give it a Hell Fire.
If Daddy complains? We know where he's at also.
:shifty:

[Armistead]

Hope they get him alive, death is a too easy escape for this kind of scum. :huh:

Let them have a ''nice interrogation'' (sarcasm) and let him rot in jail for the rest of his life. :dead:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4505838311640051&pid=1.7&w=205&h=150&c=7&rs=1

"Give yourself up, American prison good, free food, medical and even cable TV"

Fox reports "robot going in"

[Tchocky]

More gunfire

Livestream here - http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon

[Jimbuna]

Off to grab some shuteye...should be over one way or the other when I come back to the surface.

[Oberon]

Fox reports "robot going in"

http://images.wikia.com/terminator/images/2/24/Terminator.gif

[Oberon]

Looks like they might have got him. Police moving out of defensive positions and some applause heard.

Judging by the lack of shots fired, I'd say he was alive, wounded and probably not able to fight back much.

Confirmed - They've got him, alive.

[Tchocky]

In custody.

Ah, Oberon!

[mookiemookie]

They got the sonofabitch alive!

[TLAM Strike]

Ambulance moving in. Looks like they apprehended him, and is probably wounded. No LEOs reported hurt from the capture of the 2nd suspect.

[Oberon]

Now, they patch him up and we try and find out just why.
Unfortunately I suspect the key figure in this is the dead older brother who is the one who likely brought his younger brother into the plan, given the description of the differences of the two men.

Time will tell. For now, it's time for celebrations tinged with sadness for the men of the law enforcement officers of Boston.

[Madox58]

"Suspect may be injured"

He sprung a leak in a few places I'd bet.

:har:

[Tchocky]

Alive and conscious.

[Oberon]

That hostage negotiator deserves a few beers alright. Managed to talk him into surrendering. Given the guys injuries, his dead brother, and his situation, he had two choices, go down fighting or surrender. Had it had been the older brother I'd have wagered the former, but since it was his younger...he made the sensible choice. :yep:

[donna52522]

We didn't need both alive, but glad we got one....Maybe we will find out what flipped their switches into a-hole mode.

I bet he claims it was all his brothers idea, which may be correct.

Now somebody should slap his Aunt for saying something like "Why is that 8yr old kids life worth more her Nephews lives"......(yes I know it's not an exact quote)..... My answer to her is "Because that 8yr old didn't decide to go out and try to commit mass murder with explosives."

I know she comes from a place where things like this are conspiracies, but just what motive would the USA have for framing two young men for something like this?

I am just rambling, if you don't agree with what I said......I really don't care. :O:

[Armistead]

I am just rambling, if you don't agree with what I said......I really don't care. :O:

typical:O:

[Madox58]

I know she comes from a place where things like this are conspiracies, but just what motive would the USA have for framing two young men for something like this?



Oh, I'm sure We'll hear from the 'Dark Side' about this!

[razark]

:salute: to those who brought him in.

Very glad they managed to do it without getting any more officers hurt.

[Wolferz]

Nineteen year old kid by the accounts I've read. I suspect his older brother was the bad influence. Now the elder brother is dead dead deadski and no longer a bad influence. Hopefully this kid gets a one way ticket to Gitmo never to be seen again. Save the taxpayers in Massachusetts some money in trial and incarceration costs.:up:

Be a good girl Donna and drink your Kool-Aid.

[Armistead]

Think the younger one is US. In about 4 years and 50 million tax dollars later, he'll be convicted.

[mookiemookie]

Save the taxpayers in Massachusetts some money in trial and incarceration costs.:up:

NO! Our justice system is what makes America great. Everyone gets a fair trial. Not just the ones we like. Even those we despise are entitled to a fair trial. That's what sets us apart.

[Oberon]

NO! Our justice system is what makes America great. Everyone gets a fair trial. Not just the ones we like. Even those we despise are entitled to a fair trial. That's what sets us apart.

Well said, the day you start stooping to the level of those who fight you is the day you forget what you're fighting for in the first place.

[mookiemookie]

Well said, the day you start stooping to the level of those who fight you is the day you forget what you're fighting for in the first place.

Exactly.

And I quote (emphasis mine):

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

[Oberon]

Exactly.

And I quote (emphasis mine):

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

That's the kicker...

In a story like this, how the heck does one get an impartial jury? :doh: :hmmm:

[Tchocky]

OK, off to bed now that it's all done.

Side note - did anyone expect this guy to be talked out of it as it seems has happened? It was one of the last things I expected to be honest.

[TarJak]

Largely irrelevant. They pick 12 good men and true and then send him down the river for as long as he gets. Unless he pleads guilty, then skip step one.

[TarJak]

That's what sets us apart.
Not just in America. Same goes for most countries that inherited versions of the British colonial justice system, (which is based on Roman laws with the same presumption of innocence), as well as some others that said that the presumption innocence and the requirement for the authorities to prove guilt was a good idea.

[mookiemookie]

Not just in America. Same goes for most countries that inherited versions of the British colonial justice system, (which is based on Roman laws with the same presumption of innocence), as well as some others that said that the presumption innocence and the requirement for the authorities to prove guilt was a good idea.

You're absolutely correct. I didn't mean to come across as one of those "'Murca's the best cause freedom!" types. I meant to draw a line between the Magna Carta based justice systems and the "we know the infidel did it so lock him up" kangaroo court types that would presume guilt just because.

It just really bugs me when I hear the phrase "save the taxpayer money" in relation to the justice system.

[Oberon]

OK, off to bed now that it's all done.

Side note - did anyone expect this guy to be talked out of it as it seems has happened? It was one of the last things I expected to be honest.

At first, no, but after hearing details about the two, I did kind of hope it, but like I said earlier, it could have gone one of two ways, and it's a good indication of the skill of the negotiator that he was able to stop him going the way most of us thought he would, and pretty quickly too.

[Stealhead]

OK, off to bed now that it's all done.

Side note - did anyone expect this guy to be talked out of it as it seems has happened? It was one of the last things I expected to be honest.


I was wondering this myself.This seems to imply that he was very much under the control of his older brother not to diminish guilt in any way.
It seems that he could have attempted a suicide attacks on the cops looking for him.Or fired at them.

I wonder if what he did was fire a weapon that he had on him to attract attention because it seems that there was not much of a stand off before he gave up.He could have held on for many hours even days but he gave up after only a few hours.He clearly had nearly 24 hours to decide what his fate was going to be.

[razark]

NO! Our justice system is what makes America great. Everyone gets a fair trial. Not just the ones we like. Even those we despise are entitled to a fair trial. That's what sets us apart.
Oh, phooey! You obviously don't have a clue, unlike certain people:
Now that the suspect is in custody, the last thing we should want is for him to remain silent. It is absolutely vital the suspect be questioned for intelligence gathering purposes. ... The least of our worries is a criminal trial which will likely be held years from now. Under the Law of War we can hold this suspect as a potential enemy combatant not entitled to Miranda warnings or the appointment of counsel.
Link (http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston-suspect-obama-enemy-combatant-2013-4)

[eddie]

At first, no, but after hearing details about the two, I did kind of hope it, but like I said earlier, it could have gone one of two ways, and it's a good indication of the skill of the negotiator that he was able to stop him going the way most of us thought he would, and pretty quickly too.

Good luck with the marathon in London this weekend. Hope they don't have any problems like we did in Boston.

[eddie]

Oh, phooey! You obviously don't have a clue, unlike certain people:

Link (http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston-suspect-obama-enemy-combatant-2013-4)

Do they want Cheney to waterboard him?:D

[Tribesman]

Oh, phooey! You obviously don't have a clue, unlike certain people:

Link (http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-boston-suspect-obama-enemy-combatant-2013-4)

Thanks for the link, it didn't take some politicians long to display their craziness.

[Catfish]

NO! Our justice system is what makes America great. Everyone gets a fair trial. Not just the ones we like. Even those we despise are entitled to a fair trial. That's what sets us apart.

Drones killing US citizens and lots of bystanders abroad, without any trial.
Guantanamo, being imprisoned and tortured without trial, a lot of them are obviously not guilty (see the taxi driver case).
Or did you mean this as a joke ? If this is what made America great i would politely refrain from ever wanting to go there.

Of course, i do not believe the US official justice and legal system accepts or supports this killing or torturing, with or without trial, but it seems they are not being asked. Those actions are performed in a clandestine way which unfortunately leaked out, otherwise no one would know about it.

This has been going on since after WW2 and the change from the OSS to CIA, but after 9/11 they do not care really much about hiding that anymore, it is all about the then declared condition of law of war (or condition yellow, red etc.), which took away a lot of liberties, and rights. Every eMail is being read, or at least automatically checked, and eavesdropping is now 'legal', as are trials without legal hearing. For how long ? Does anyone think this will be turned back at any time in the future ?

[Bilge_Rat]

apparently, the Russians had identified the older brother as a potential terrorist and had advised the U.S. two years ago:


Also Friday, the FBI confirmed that its agents in Boston had interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. A law enforcement official said the request came from the Russian government, concerned about Tsarnaev’s potential ties to Chechen terrorists. But, after that interview, the FBI did not follow him further, officials said.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/second-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-arrested-after-day-of-lockdown/2013/04/19/f53e1cf2-a911-11e2-b8ad-87b8baf4531b_story.html

[MH]

Drones killing US citizens and lots of bystanders abroad, without any trial.
Guantanamo, being imprisoned and tortured without trial, a lot of them are obviously not guilty (see the taxi driver case).
Or did you mean this as a joke ? If this is what made America great i would politely refrain from ever wanting to go there.

Of course, i do not believe the US official justice and legal system accepts or supports this killing or torturing, with or without trial, but it seems they are not being asked. Those actions are performed in a clandestine way which unfortunately leaked out, otherwise no one would know about it.

This has been going on since after WW2 and the change from the OSS to CIA, but after 9/11 they do not care really much about hiding that anymore, it is all about the then declared condition of law of war (or condition yellow, red etc.), which took away a lot of liberties, and rights. Every eMail is being read, or at least automatically checked, and eavesdropping is now 'legal', as are trials without legal hearing. For how long ? Does anyone think this will be turned back at any time in the future ?




https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2701435904/h5EE53721/

[swamprat69er]

Give him a 'fair' trial in a state that still has a death penalty. Then hang him by the neck until he is as dead as those three people he helped kill. That is fair.

[WernherVonTrapp]

From the beginning, my wife and I were watching these events unfold through the media. It has (pretty much) unfolded just as I described it would to my wife. From the FBI and local authorities confiscating video from the cameras of various local business security cams, to the quick identification of the suspects and the subsequent tips that lead to them being found.
When my wife asked me why the two brothers visited MIT and killed the officer there, I proposed that it might have been their intention to detonate an explosive device at a premier institute like MIT because the one suspect wanted to make some sort of statement related to (possibly) his own failure as an engineering student. I wasn't surprised to learn later that the authorities found an explosive device with a "trigger" mechanism on the one suspect. I suggested to my wife that the MIT officer (who was probably new and inexperienced) possibly interrupted their original plan.
I also proposed that they would take the second suspect alive, for one reason or another, but due to the fact that I thought the older brother played the leader while the younger played the follower. Truly a sad situation all around.:nope:

[Wolferz]

The younger one will get a one way ticket to Gitmo after they slap the domestic terrorist label on him. A really stupid way to screw up your life and give away your rights and liberty.:shifty:

How many more of these religious zealots is our government going to import? The burning question in my mind is... why?

[Jimbuna]

Good luck with the marathon in London this weekend. Hope they don't have any problems like we did in Boston.

Hopefully that will be the case.

Congratulations to all the emergency services that played their part.

[donna52522]

Give him a 'fair' trial in a state that still has a death penalty. Then hang him by the neck until he is as dead as those three people he helped kill. That is fair.

I don't believe that state has a Death Penalty, except for "cop killers". I may be wrong.

http://nodp.org/ma/s1.html

On November 7, 2007, House lawmakers again overwhelmingly rejected a bill to reinstate the death penalty by a vote of 46 - 110. Two years earlier in 2005, the House defeated Governor Romney's legislation 53 - 100.

[Jimbuna]

I don't believe that state has a Death Penalty, except for "cop killers". I may be wrong.

http://nodp.org/ma/s1.html

On November 7, 2007, House lawmakers again overwhelmingly rejected a bill to reinstate the death penalty by a vote of 46 - 110. Two years earlier in 2005, the House defeated Governor Romney's legislation 53 - 100.

I've obviously no idea with being British but didn't a police officer from MIT get murdered?

[eddie]

He won't go to Gitmo. His case will be on the Federal Level, so don't know about the death penalty there. If he doesn't get the death sentence, he'll spend the rest of his life in a Federal Prison, aka Super Max. No tv, no internet, no special privileges, he will only be let out of his cell 1 hour out of 24, every day.
But, Timothy McVeigh (the Oklahoma City bomber) was executed by lethal injection, and that was a Federal Case too

He actually worked for MIT Jim, Coillier, the officer you are talking about. So don't know if that would be treated like killing a policeman who worked for the city. It should though, I would think.

[Skybird]

Revenge-driven debate. Killing him does not do anything.

He does not pose a risk anymore when being in a prison. He will hardly run a criminal empire from inside prison. There is hardly a criminal empire waiting for him to be taken over again by him if he gets released from prison. He hardly will be the excuse for more terror done in an attempt to blackmail the state and have him freed. - As a rule of tumb, these are the reasons when I sometimes would agree to execute a sentenced criminal - and then it is no punishment, but a prevention. As I often argued, death as penalty makes no sense - since the offender does not exist anymore to endure the punishing stimulus, and to alter his behavior.

However, I also do not accept that the public has to pay for keeping the criminals off the streets, and has to pay for their lodging, food, and such. In prison, people should need to work to produce an income by which they pay for their food, clothes, heating, water, electricity, and the wages of the prison guard. That the maintaining of prisons is payed for by the tax payer, is not just a joke - it is an offense of the real or potential victims. In a way, the right of self-defense should not cost the ordinary innocent man his money. If you have to buy a right, then it is no right. Prisoners should also work to produce an income by which they pay compensations to their victims, as should be ruled by courts. Punishing an offender, and the state taking the money and the victims get nothing, or less, is not okay. Running prisons must not produce an economic profit, that is not what they are there for. But they should be run tax-neutral.

[Armistead]

They need to do what they can to see if other people are connected to this before he can lawyer up. I have no problem with him being labeled an enemy combatant.

[eddie]

The FBI got the cell phone off the first brother who was killed, so they hopefully will find a lot of info who they were in contact with.
Who knows where that might lead.

[Méo]

A really stupid way to screw up your life and give away your rights and liberty.:shifty:

Couldn't agree more!

http://ygreck.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c5dd653ef017eea68399f970d-800wi

Btw, he's 19, we can reasonably assume that he still have 60 years to live. I mean think about it, 60 years in jail without any hope of liberty...

I've been in hospital for 2 weeks recently and I was nearly going crazy.

...and I wonder how many times is he gonna be raped by his cellmates in 60 years? :dead:

Death penalty for this scumbag would only be a big relief for him. :shifty:

[Tribesman]

They need to do what they can to see if other people are connected to this before he can lawyer up.
What a way to hand the terrorists a victory
I have no problem with him being labeled an enemy combatant.
Why not label him a murderer and treat him for what he is?
Why elevate the scum?

[BossMark]

Does Boston (cant remember what State its in) have the death penalty?

[Méo]

Why elevate the scum?

Agreed.

[Armistead]

Sounds like he had a lot of radical influences, even his nut aunt. He made a choice, now time to reap it. It's just sad tax payers will have to spend millions on his trial, then millions keeping him up all his life. A bunch of lawyers are standing in line ready to get rich.

[Oberon]

Does Boston (cant remember what State its in) have the death penalty?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203749&page=28

[Armistead]

What a way to hand the terrorists a victory

Why not label him a murderer and treat him for what he is?
Why elevate the scum?

Obvious it's legal. Label him a murderer, give him a lawyer, a long trial to spew his gargage, chancing a jury system and some liberal pansy feeling sorry for him.

Make him a combatant, a military court, a quick execution and dump his ashes in the sea and be done with him.

[Platapus]

That's the kicker...

In a story like this, how the heck does one get an impartial jury? :doh: :hmmm:


Should not be too difficult. Emotions about the crime committed should not influence the partiality of the jury... as long as they are impartial against the defendant.

I would imagine that most juries consist of people with emotions and biases against the crime. Would you want someone on the jury who does not think that murder is naughty?

The impartiality concept is aimed at the defendant. Now if the media continues to convict this individual prior to any trial, then yes, it will be hard to find an impartial jury.

Which raises an inconvenient question: What happens when exercising one right infringes on another right?

Which takes precedence the first amendment rights or the sixth amendment rights?

Does the government have the right/responsibility to infringe on any right, when there is a conflict with the exercise of another right?

Now that's an ugly can of worms to open. :yep:

[Buddahaid]

Obvious it's legal. Label him a murderer, give him a lawyer, a long trial to spew his gargage, chancing a jury system and some liberal pansy feeling sorry for him.

Make him a combatant, a military court, a quick execution and dump his ashes in the sea and be done with him.

Thanks for the insult to anyone with any liberal thinking. I'm more worried about conservative pansies usually. They hide in closets and under the beds of little children. :O:

I like the idea of him just disappearing myself, however the liberal pansy in me wants to just make him wear a Gingham dress, get his hair done, and have a nice trial with friends. Maybe we could make some little sandwiches and have some tea. :yeah:

[WernherVonTrapp]

Right from the beginning, I did not suspect this to be an act of international terrorism, but something more close to home. Despite the older brother possibly having been a zealot of some type (religious, political), I thought it might have been an act perpetrated on a more personal level, though this remains to be seen. It just seemed to have more earmarks of domestic terrorism than international (e.g., localized area of attack w/o more widespread support or coordination). It also helped after factoring-in that no specific group immediately claimed responsibility as they usually are all too willing to take credit for.

I suspected it could have been an anarchist group or splinter, but after seeing photos of the subjects and learning that they were from Chechnya, I suspected it may have been more of a disillusionary motivation by the attacker. I certainly hope the authorities can reconcile any conclusion concerning conspirators during their investigation.

[Armistead]

Thanks for the insult to anyone with any liberal thinking. I'm more worried about conservative pansies usually. They hide in closets and under the beds of little children. :O:

I like the idea of him just disappearing myself, however the liberal pansy in me wants to just make him wear a Gingham dress, get his hair done, and have a nice trial with friends. Maybe we could make some little sandwiches and have some tea. :yeah:

I'm somewhat liberal myself, just not a pansy. Reading several other websites, I'm seeing a lot of "he's just a kid" and many comments he was brainwashed, didn't know better, a product of culture, etc.... I would hate to see even one like this on a jury.

[Buddahaid]

I'm somewhat liberal myself, just not a pansy. Reading several other websites, I'm seeing a lot of "he's just a kid" and many comments he was brainwashed, didn't know better, a product of culture, etc.... I would hate to see even one like this on a jury.

Yeah I know. I was just being tongue in cheek.

He's old enough to fight on the front line and old enough to die for it even if he looks like a nice kid. I still think silent obscurity fits best.

[mookiemookie]

Obvious it's legal. Label him a murderer, give him a lawyer, a long trial to spew his gargage, chancing a jury system and some liberal pansy feeling sorry for him.

Make him a combatant, a military court, a quick execution and dump his ashes in the sea and be done with him.

Why do you hate the American system of justice? That's what makes America, AMERICA.

You don't get to pick and choose who gets the right to a trial by jury. It's there in the Constitution - every citizen does. People shouldn't crap on the Constitution just because it suits their whims. It's what we've been yelling at Bush and Obama about for the last decade.

[Méo]

"he's just a kid"

he looks like a nice kid.

I guess that's exactly what his inmates will think when they'll gaze and smirk at him...

[Buddahaid]

He won't have any room mates.

[eddie]

First picture I've seen of him being arrested.

At 19 years old, he darn well knows right from wrong. This stuff that he's just a kid is crap, IMHO. You play, you pay!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/20/17837080-boston-bombing-suspect-and-victims-in-same-hospital?lite

[Stealhead]

He won't go to Gitmo. His case will be on the Federal Level, so don't know about the death penalty there. If he doesn't get the death sentence, he'll spend the rest of his life in a Federal Prison, aka Super Max. No tv, no internet, no special privileges, he will only be let out of his cell 1 hour out of 24, every day.
But, Timothy McVeigh (the Oklahoma City bomber) was executed by lethal injection, and that was a Federal Case too

He actually worked for MIT Jim, Coillier, the officer you are talking about. So don't know if that would be treated like killing a policeman who worked for the city. It should though, I would think.

The federal government can hand out the death sentence this is what Timothy McVeigh received.The fed can give you the death sentence even if the state that you committed the federal crime in does not have a death penalty.

[Méo]

He won't have any room mates.

Never, ever???

Not even when he'll be out of his cell. :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

Never, ever???

Not even when he'll be out of his cell. :hmmm:


Nope, as he would go to one of the federal supermax prisons they never encounter other inmates physically. A Few years back a journalist spoke with Eric Rudolph he described daily routine in the supermax.The only time they spend outside of the cell is once a week in a small enclosed recreation area they are alone during even this time.Rudolph said the only interaction is by yelling over through the walls to other inmates they pass a message down form one cell to another but of course guards are right there so nothing disallowed can be discussed.Ramzi Yousef is in the same supermax.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence

[Méo]

Too bad...

Anyway it wouldn't be surprising if he committed suicide someday. :dead:

[Jimbuna]

Yeah, I was wondering if he'd be put on 'suicide watch' but surely that's impossible for the entirety of a long term sentence :hmmm:

[Platapus]

Well if he is in Supermax, he won't have access to many materials in which to commit suicide. And since Supermax has cameras in the cells, it will be hard for him to conceal suicide attempts. Now whether the guards care is another thing.

[eddie]

Here is a rendering of what a cell is like in a Supermax. Notice, there is only a 4 inch wide window, and they can only see out into the prison yard. Has a black and white tv in it, but they can only watch Education or Religipous programs, monitered by the prison. Concrete base to the bed, with a thin rubber mattress to lay on. Concrete seat at a concrete desk. All in one toilet and sink. Just what they deserve. And like what has been said, hardly any contact with the outside world.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/cellinsupermaxprison_zpse2749836.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/cellinsupermaxprison_zpse2749836.jpg.html)

[mookiemookie]

Here is a rendering of what a cell is like in a Supermax. Notice, there is only a 4 inch wide window, and they can only see out into the prison yard. Has a black and white tv in it, but they can only watch Education or Religipous programs, monitered by the prison. Concrete base to the bed, with a thin rubber mattress to lay on. Concrete seat at a concrete desk. All in one toilet and sink. Just what they deserve. And like what has been said, hardly any contact with the outside world.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/cellinsupermaxprison_zpse2749836.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/cellinsupermaxprison_zpse2749836.jpg.html)

Wow. I'd go stir crazy. A fitting punishment.

[Stealhead]

Wow. I'd go stir crazy. A fitting punishment.


Indeed this place is the ultimate prison only the worst federal inmates go here.The article where Rudolph was interviewed was a in a Time magazine a while back form I read of it based on what Rudolph said and the author said it was pretty clear that you would not want to be here and that you are under control 24/7.This prison is not very large but has plenty of guards.For example each cell has a guard constantly stand outside of it observing according to what I recall of the article.

Of course the author could not go into any detail about the layout nor can anyone else so the above graphic would only be a generalization

[Méo]

Wow. I'd go stir crazy.

Exactly, that was my point. This is worse than death penalty.

But seems like even on this issue conservative and liberals have different views. :down:

[swamprat69er]

Mass. doesn't have a death penalty. But there are other states that do. I don't think that he would get a fair trial in Mass.

[Oberon]

I think only the next level would be the method of interrogation mentioned once in 'The Cardinal of the Kremlin' where the suspect was immersed in water, complete darkness and with audio suppression techniques. So there was utter blackness, no way of orientation, and no sound except perhaps that of your heart beating.

Would not be surprised if such a device was already used somewhere.

[Buddahaid]

Maybe isolation isn't hard enough. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1EbxYKh_4

[Méo]

Just give him high doses of decadron for few days or weeks.

He's gonna be on his knees and will do anything for this to stop.

[Platapus]

Here is another drawing

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59578000/gif/_59578557_prison_cell_2_464.gif

1. Window - partially blocked to leave only a view of the sky
2. Shower - water on a timer switch to prevent flooding
3. Fixed concrete stool and writing desk
4. Combined toilet, sink and water fountain unit
5. Polished steel mirror


But it should be noted that there are several different types of cells and different levels of confinement largely dependent on the inmate's conduct.


While there are some lifers who will never see the light of day, the average stay at ADX is 3.18 years before being transferred back to "normal" maximum security prisons. This number is disputed and other studies have indicated that the average stay at ADX is 8.2 years.



http://solitarywatch.com/2012/10/06/extradited-to-a-future-of-torture-in-a-u-s-supermax-prison/


The difference is because ADX has what is called a "three year program" where well behaved inmates (with few exceptions) are allowed, after 3 years to transfer to other programs/levels of confinement at the same facility with the goal of eventually to transfer to other facilities. So it may take an inmate 3.18 years to get out of Z-block and another 5 years to get transferred to an other facility.

[Platapus]

Mass. doesn't have a death penalty. But there are other states that do. I don't think that he would get a fair trial in Mass.


Why do you think that?

Unless the media taints the jury pool that is.

[Oberon]

Why do you think that?

Unless the media taints the jury pool that is.

Like I said earlier, this is a crime that's been broadcast across the whole of America, where on earth are they going to find an impartial jury? :hmmm:

[mapuc]

According to the Swedish newspaper, aftonbladet.se

He wasn't given the Miranda warnings(they did not read his rights) under his arrest and because of this it is not given if he will get the penalties

I have been trying to use google translate, but that translate doens't work at all.
(maybe one day in the near future it will work, the translate)

Markus

[eddie]

Actual photos of a cell.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/cellinsupermax_zpse5a44646.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/cellinsupermax_zpse5a44646.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/pg-6-supermax-ap_zpsb2df0ed3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/pg-6-supermax-ap_zpsb2df0ed3.jpg.html)

[Tribesman]

Obvious it's legal. Label him a murderer, give him a lawyer, a long trial to spew his gargage, chancing a jury system and some liberal pansy feeling sorry for him.

Make him a combatant, a military court, a quick execution and dump his ashes in the sea and be done with him.
Well the first bit is straight from planet yubba, the second bit shows that you havn't a clue what it is you want.
So why do you hate America and why are you so desperate to help the terrorists?

[Platapus]

Like I said earlier, this is a crime that's been broadcast across the whole of America, where on earth are they going to find an impartial jury? :hmmm:

But I think you are missing the point about impartiality.

It is not about finding a jury who is impartial about the crime. It is about finding a jury who is impartial about the defendant.

It is about not having preconceptions or biases about the innocence or guilt of the defendant; not how the jury feels about the crime itself.

You can be extremely emotional and biased about the crime itself and still be impartial about the defendant. It happens all the time.

There is a difference between the crime and the person accused of the crime.... at least there should be.

What we want to avoid is the media "convicting" the defendant before the trial or getting a jury who thinks that "well since he is accused of the crime, he must be guilty". (Edwin Meese likes that)

Hence my comment about conflicting constitutional rights.

Take yourself. Do you think you would be unable to be impartial about the defendant based on your feelings of the crime he will be accused of?

[eddie]

According to the Swedish newspaper, aftonbladet.se

He wasn't given the Miranda warnings(they did not read his rights) under his arrest and because of this it is not given if he will get the penalties

I have been trying to use google translate, but that translate doens't work at all.
(maybe one day in the near future it will work, the translate)

Markus

This is why they didn't have to read him his rights for now.

"U.S. officials said a special interrogation team for high-value suspects would question him without reading him his Miranda rights, under a public safety exception that exists to protect police and the public from immediate danger. Miranda rights include the right to remain silent and the right to have a lawyer."

[swamprat69er]

Like I said earlier, this is a crime that's been broadcast across the whole of America, where on earth are they going to find an impartial jury? :hmmm:
Who in U.S. of A. really cares whether or not he gets a 'fair' trial. Give him the same trail he gave the 8 yr. old kid who just wanted to give his Dad a hug, the same trial he gave the MIT cop. That is all he deserves.

[Tribesman]

Who in U.S. of A. really cares whether or not he gets a 'fair' trial.
That would be anyone in the U.S. of A. who believes in the rule of law and the constitution.

[Platapus]

Actual photos of a cell.

Awesome find. I am surprised there are photographs of the actual cells.

[Platapus]

Who in U.S. of A. really cares whether or not he gets a 'fair' trial. Give him the same trail he gave the 8 yr. old kid who just wanted to give his Dad a hug, the same trial he gave the MIT cop. That is all he deserves.

I do hope you are joking.

*I* care that he gets a fair trial.

While we have strayed in the past decade, I still feel that we are a nation of laws.

[donna52522]

I've obviously no idea with being British but didn't a police officer from MIT get murdered?

I am not sure if a Police officer is the same as a college police officer...I have been told and heard (though it maybe wrong) that college cops are not even allowed to carry side arms. They are not full fledged Police.

[Platapus]

I am not sure if a Police officer is the same as a college police officer...I have been told and heard (though it maybe wrong) that college cops are not even allowed to carry side arms. They are not full fledged Police.

Like most legal questions concerning the US, the answer is Yes, No, and Maybe.

It depends on the jurisdiction. Campus police can run the spectrum from less than a rent-a-mall-cop all the way to a sworn law enforcement officer.

If I had to make a generalization across all the jurisdictions, I would opine that most campus police are sworn law enforcement officers although many may only have jurisdiction within the campus boundary.

[Vince82]

Revengefull bunch of people here. What do you think the Tsarnaev brothers were thinking about?

[mookiemookie]

Who in U.S. of A. really cares whether or not he gets a 'fair' trial.Me. We stick to our principles because they're our principles. Giving them up when it's convenient is cowardly.

Give him the same trail he gave the 8 yr. old kid who just wanted to give his Dad a hug, the same trial he gave the MIT cop. That is all he deserves. He deserves the rights and process laid out in the Constitution.

[mapuc]

Me. We stick to our principles because they're our principles. Giving them up when it's convenient is cowardly.

He deserves the rights and process laid out in the Constitution.


Well said, we are a civilized people.

Markus

[WernherVonTrapp]

He won't have any room mates.
You're right, if he's charged, sentenced and committed Federally. On the other hand, if he's charged, sentenced and committed on the State level, he may very well have a roommate.
The inherent weakness in our Justice system is in protecting the "innocent until proven guilty" predilection. Not that this is a bad thing, but it can easily lead to a miscarriage of justice. Justice isn't always commensurate with the rules of law or what is (or isn't) considered Humane Treatment of suspects or convicts. It can get pretty complicated and philosophical. Skybird actually touched upon some of those points in one of his posts.

I'm actually indifferent about the death penalty. The most obvious danger in imposing the death penalty, is that someone who is actually innocent may be executed, despite all the apparent evidence at his trial. It has already happened in the past and even one error is too many.
On the other hand, how many convicted murderers are enjoying a better standard of living and a diet of three meals a day when so many in this country are living below the poverty level, maybe with one meal a day if they're lucky. That's only dealing with the issue of meals, not television, internet access or other privileges that are paid for by law abiding, tax paying, citizens.
I don't see any easy answers, but I do think that being convicted of a crime should negate certain privileges they would otherwise have as a law abiding citizens.

[eddie]

Revengefull bunch of people here. What do you think the Tsarnaev brothers were thinking about?

I can't get into the mindset of someone who would do something like this. Have no clue why you would just kill innocent people who have done nothing to you, they were just watching a marathon. The same applies to the bombings in London, or when they blew up the trains in Spain. Everyone asks themselves "Why"?

[Stealhead]

Revengefull bunch of people here. What do you think the Tsarnaev brothers were thinking about?


Being malicious most likely.The very strange part if it is true is that the younger one went to his college campus several times and went to class,and apparently hung around in the dorms as well.This was before the photos where released by the FBI.

This behavior is very strange indeed.On the one hand they plant bombs and then they just apparently went about their lives as if nothing happened.Why did they not do anything with all the weapons and bombs they had until Thursday night?

It would seem more logical to have just gone a bombing shooting spree across Mass. or New England.There is some clear irrationality to their actions after the bombings.Why not make threats and perform other attacks right away?Why not walk away form the marathon location and plant other bombs around to kill and harm people trying to walk away from the area?

I do not think that there was any rationality to their actions at all.

[Oberon]

Take yourself. Do you think you would be unable to be impartial about the defendant based on your feelings of the crime he will be accused of?

I would like to think that I could be, but if you were to ask me to be impartial about the July 7th bombers (had they survived) then I would struggle to do so given my thoughts and feelings about that day.

Do American jurors have to come from within the same state that the trial is taking place in?

[eddie]

More then likely Oberon, still not sure where the trial will be yet.

I was watching the CBS news show 48 Hours tonight, and one of the wounds our suspect has is pretty serious. He has a bullet wound in the back of his neck, but it is an exit wound. They believe he probably tried to shoot himself, by putting the barrel of his weapon in his mouth, and pulling the trigger.

He might never speak at all.

[Platapus]

Do American jurors have to come from within the same state that the trial is taking place in?

Yes, all the jurors must be residents of the state in which the trial takes place, and with few exceptions, the trial must take place in the state where the crime was committed.

Article 3, section 2 para 3 of the Constitution

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

For federal juries, you have to be a resident of the federal judicial district.

In most states, jurors are selected from the list of registered voters in that state.

[Sailor Steve]

Revengefull bunch of people here.
That's why the law works the way it does. Laws against murder don't just punish the guilty, they exist to prevent the chaos of vendettas.

[geetrue]

Listening to the news on TV I thought the father was from Kazakhstan, but that is now proven false.


The suspects' father, who lives in the Russian republic of Dagestan, told CNN on Saturday that he believes his sons were "never, ever" involved in the Boston attacks. He also said he plans to go to the United States


They sounded the same, but a long way from each other, plus a lot of people (not ya'll of course) thought they had something to do with the Czech Republic, but again that information is false: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/04/czech-republic-ambassador-dont-confuse-us-with-chechnya/


The Czech Republic and Chechnya are nearly 2,000 miles apart, but that didn’t stop people from mixing up their geography.


http://abcnews.go.com/images/International/ht_google_maps_czech_republic_chechnya_circled_thg _130420_wblog.jpg


Now that all of that is clear ...

CBS on this evening news (like eddie reported earlier) has reported that the neck wound on the
younger brother is an exit wound in the throat area which could be an attempted suicide shot through the
mouth and went clean through.

The twenty shots fired after they cornered him in the boat came from him and not from the police or FBI.

One more item I wonder if the MIT campus policeman had a gun?

They said he was a cool campus cop and that he would run up and down the stairs with the other
students for fun in full uniform with all of his gear on.

[eddie]

geetrue, they ambushed him. They just walked up to his car, and shot and killed him. He had no idea of what was about to happen to him, sadly. Never had a chance to defend himself.

[eddie]

This hack or Russian puppet knows why this event happended in Boston. Would love to meet him and set him straight,lol

http://news.msn.com/world/pro-moscow-chechen-leader-blames-us-for-boston-bombings

[Armistead]

geetrue, they ambushed him. They just walked up to his car, and shot and killed him. He had no idea of what was about to happen to him, sadly. Never had a chance to defend himself.

Not only that, the man they kidnapped stated they were laughing and bragging about what they did, including killing the cop. Really lucky for him they let him go.

[donna52522]

You're right, if he's charged, sentenced and committed Federally.

He won't have a room mate, whether he is convicted in State or in the Federal courts. In either case he has the right to seek Protective Custody. Otherwise known as PC......PC can also be forced upon him for his own safety. In such a high profile case they will not throw him into a prisons General Population, and they may even put him under a suicide watch.

Hey, I was a para legal once. Then I found out I could make more money with less tears.

[geetrue]

Not only that, the man they kidnapped stated they were laughing and bragging about what they did, including killing the cop. Really lucky for him they let him go.

I had not heard this story yet ...
shines light on their real personalities in all of this.

Does anyone have the missing clue of how the two brothers got to the MIT campus with all of the guns,
explosives and equipment they were acounted to have pocessed?

We can safely assume that they knew the authorities were looking for both of them by now. Did they leave their car behind?

Nothing in the news about leaving a car behind?

Tells us something about being dropped off perhaps and if they were dropped off how did they intend to leave MIT?



Here's a published time line: http://www.ktvb.com/news/VIDEO-Shootout-and-manhunt-for-bombing-suspects-203759931.html



At 5:10 p.m. Thursday, investigators of the bombings release photographs and video of two suspects. They ask for the public's help in identifying the men.

Around 10:20 p.m., shots are fired on the campus of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, just outside Boston.

At 10:30 p.m., an MIT campus police officer who was responding to a disturbance is found shot multiple times in his vehicle, apparently in a confrontation with the Boston Marathon bombing suspects. He is later pronounced dead.

-- Shortly afterward, two armed men reportedly carjack a Mercedes SUV in Cambridge. A man who was in the vehicle is held for about a half hour and then released unharmed at a gas station on Memorial Drive in Cambridge.

-- Police soon pursue the carjacked vehicle in Watertown, just west of Cambridge.

-- Some kind of explosive devices are thrown from the vehicle in an apparent attempt to stop police. The carjackers and police exchange gunfire. A transit police officer is seriously injured. One suspect, later identified as Suspect No. 1 in the marathon bombings, is critically injured and later pronounced dead.


Two and half hours go by (2 and 1/2 hours is a long time)



Around 1 a.m. Friday, gunshots and explosions are heard in Watertown, just outside Boston.
Dozens of police officers and FBI agents converge on a Watertown neighborhood.
A helicopter circles overhead.


Never mind I found it: it was the next day (morning that they found it)


Around 10:20 a.m., Connecticut State Police say a gray Honda CRV believed to be linked to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been recovered in Boston.



Around 11:30 a.m., Massachusetts State Police explain that the brothers suspected in the bombings were in the Honda CRV when they carjacked the Mercedes SUV. For a while, each drove one of the two vehicles, but then ditched the Honda and reunited in the Mercedes.

[donna52522]

I had not heard this story yet ...
shines light on their real personalities in all of this.

Does anyone have the missing clue of how the two brothers got to the MIT campus with all of the guns,
explosives and equipment they were acounted to have pocessed?

We can safely assume that they knew the authorities were looking for both of them by now. Did they leave their car behind?

Nothing in the news about leaving a car behind?

Tells us something about being dropped off perhaps and if they were dropped off how did they intend to leave MIT?



Here's a published time line: http://www.ktvb.com/news/VIDEO-Shootout-and-manhunt-for-bombing-suspects-203759931.html



Two and half hours go by (2 and 1/2 hours is a long time)




Never mind I found it: it was the next day (morning that they found it)

I am not sure where you are from, but a college campus isn't exactly a lock down facility. When I was like 15 or 16 years old I watched as people rolled kegs of beer out of the backs of pick-up trucks and into the dorm rooms. If you can smuggle a keg onto a college campus, then you can certainly get a gun there.

Grow up.

Btw...good times, good times.

[Jimbuna]

Not only that, the man they kidnapped stated they were laughing and bragging about what they did, including killing the cop. Really lucky for him they let him go.

Well I doubt he'll be doing much laughing and joking now.

[Stealhead]

This hack or Russian puppet knows why this event happended in Boston. Would love to meet him and set him straight,lol

http://news.msn.com/world/pro-moscow-chechen-leader-blames-us-for-boston-bombings


Yeah says the dope on a rope that lives in a nation where you must get permission from the government to print anything and the government must also approve what any news network says.

[mapuc]

I think I have a clue on why they made this terror bombing.

Late evening before yesterday, right after the youngest one was in custody, I heard on a radio show that the eldest of them, had been interrogated by the FBI by request by the Russians.

It was then, that I thought....could it be that it was because of that, a little seeds of hate against USA started to grow.

You have to understand that the Chechen HATE the Russians and when the FBI toke the elder brother into interrogation, maybe he saw USA as a friend of Russia

Just at thought.

Markus

[Vince82]

He's a muslim extremist. And he can't talk because of a bullet that went trough his neck. Priceless I would say. Especially if he tried to commit suicide, but was doing it wrong.

[Stealhead]

I think I have a clue on why they made this terror bombing.

Late evening before yesterday, right after the youngest one was in custody, I heard on a radio show that the eldest of them, had been interrogated by the FBI by request by the Russians.

It was then, that I thought....could it be that it was because of that, a little seeds of hate against USA started to grow.

You have to understand that the Chechen HATE the Russians and when the FBI toke the elder brother into interrogation, maybe he saw USA as a friend of Russia

Just at thought.

Markus

Well the thing you must consider is that the FSB are only concerned about protecting the Russian government.The FBI says that they did question Tamerlan Tsarnaev but only using the information that the FSB gave them.The FSB did not tell the FBI everything that they may have known about Tsarnaev so in the end the blame can be laid at the FSB because they did not give the FBI enough information required by US law further observe Tsarnaev.

You have also understand that the FSB also pursues any Russian whom under us law is not a criminal and that the FSB is a likely candidate to supply false information as well.In short the FSB is very untrustworthy.

It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want to make the FBI look bad.

[mapuc]

Well the thing you must consider is that the FSB are only concerned about protecting the Russian government.The FBI says that they did question Tamerlan Tsarnaev but only using the information that the FSB gave them.The FSB did not tell the FBI everything that they may have known about Tsarnaev so in the end the blame can be laid at the FSB because they did not give the FBI enough information required by US law further observe Tsarnaev.

You have also understand that the FSB also pursues any Russian whom under us law is not a criminal and that the FSB is a likely candidate to supply false information as well.In short the FSB is very untrustworthy.

It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want to make the FBI look bad.

I can only say what they said on that radioshow that FBI toke him in for a "small talk" and maybe it was after that he started to hate USA.. As I said, just a thought.

Markus

[nikimcbee]

Well the thing you must consider is that the FSB are only concerned about protecting the Russian government.The FBI says that they did question Tamerlan Tsarnaev but only using the information that the FSB gave them.The FSB did not tell the FBI everything that they may have known about Tsarnaev so in the end the blame can be laid at the FSB because they did not give the FBI enough information required by US law further observe Tsarnaev.

You have also understand that the FSB also pursues any Russian whom under us law is not a criminal and that the FSB is a likely candidate to supply false information as well.In short the FSB is very untrustworthy.

It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want to make the FBI look bad.

Yeah, too bad Putin/FSB aren't trustworthy. I bet they'd love to talk to him.:hmmm:

[Stealhead]

I can only say what they said on that radioshow that FBI toke him in for a "small talk" and maybe it was after that he started to hate USA.. As I said, just a thought.

Markus


I agree with your thought it is possible that he disliked this event and I also said this in my previous post you must have missed that part. I will re post it again so you can see it please in the future read posts in their entirety and take time to digest what was said before making a response.


From post number 448 last sentence;
"It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want to make the FBI look bad."




I am just getting a little annoyed at the media and their constant speculation.Not at what you said.

The FSB is highly untrustworthy and I would not put it past them not to inform the US about a serious threat.I think what they did is provide information enough for the FBI to be courteous and talk to Tsaranev.


I can easily see the FSB if they really had a concern they would have spoken to Tsaranev in the US without even telling the FBI or anyone else.I can also see the FSB not even saying if they had information at the time that Tsaranev was a threat directly to the US.

[WernherVonTrapp]

He won't have a room mate, whether he is convicted in State or in the Federal courts. In either case he has the right to seek Protective Custody. Otherwise known as PC......PC can also be forced upon him for his own safety. In such a high profile case they will not throw him into a prisons General Population, and they may even put him under a suicide watch.

Hey, I was a para legal once. Then I found out I could make more money with less tears.That's not necessarily true. Besides, it's not the cellmate who he'll need protection from. It's the general population during meals, showers, exercise or other free time. I doubt anyone would consider it "humane treatment" (be it by State request or his own) that he serves a life sentence of solitary confinement.

[mapuc]

I agree with your thought it is possible that he disliked this event and I also said this in my previous post you must have missed that part. I will re post it again so you can see it please in the future read posts in their entirety and take time to digest what was said before making a response.


From post number 448 last sentence;
"It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want to make the FBI look bad."




I am just getting a little annoyed at the media and their constant speculation.Not at what you said.

The FSB is highly untrustworthy and I would not put it past them not to inform the US about a serious threat.I think what they did is provide information enough for the FBI to be courteous and talk to Tsaranev.


I can easily see the FSB if they really had a concern they would have spoken to Tsaranev in the US without even telling the FBI or anyone else.I can also see the FSB not even saying if they had information at the time that Tsaranev was a threat directly to the US.

I'm terrible sorry :oops: I should have read your entire post, before I wrote mine. I hope that I will remember to read a comment throughly before answering it in the future.

Markus

[Stealhead]

I'm terrible sorry :oops: I should have read your entire post, before I wrote mine. I hope that I will remember to read a comment throughly before answering it in the future.

Markus


Don't worry about it everyone does it from time to time.

[Bilge_Rat]

Well the thing you must consider is that the FSB are only concerned about protecting the Russian government.The FBI says that they did question Tamerlan Tsarnaev but only using the information that the FSB gave them.The FSB did not tell the FBI everything that they may have known about Tsarnaev so in the end the blame can be laid at the FSB because they did not give the FBI enough information required by US law further observe Tsarnaev.

You have also understand that the FSB also pursues any Russian whom under us law is not a criminal and that the FSB is a likely candidate to supply false information as well.In short the FSB is very untrustworthy.

It possible as you say that entire incident may have made him have hatred for the US government.The thing that will never be known is what was the FSB interest in Tsarnaev of course now the FSB can easily say what ever they want
to make the FBI look bad.

its a bit early to be blaming the Russians. It is true that the FBI receives lots of tips, but no one will be able to say whether the FBI screwed up or not until all the facts are out.

[August]

All I got to say is:

http://i.imgur.com/TUlx2iU.jpg

I think our LE did a great job in this.

[Tribesman]

I doubt anyone would consider it "humane treatment" (be it by State request or his own) that he serves a life sentence of solitary confinement.
What is inhumane about it?

[mookiemookie]

I doubt anyone would consider it "humane treatment" (be it by State request or his own) that he serves a life sentence of solitary confinement.

I think that's exactly what he deserves. If only we could replace every death penalty sentence with that, I'd be happy.

Put them all in one of those Supermax cells with a picture of their victims on the wall. I think that'd be a great punishment.

[donna52522]

I think I have a clue on why they made this terror bombing.

Late evening before yesterday, right after the youngest one was in custody, I heard on a radio show that the eldest of them, had been interrogated by the FBI by request by the Russians.

It was then, that I thought....could it be that it was because of that, a little seeds of hate against USA started to grow.

You have to understand that the Chechen HATE the Russians and when the FBI toke the elder brother into interrogation, maybe he saw USA as a friend of Russia

Just at thought.



Markus

Another thought may be the fact that the older brother wanted to box for the US olympic team, but that dream was shattered when he was denied citizenship.

[donna52522]

That's not necessarily true. Besides, it's not the cellmate who he'll need protection from. It's the general population during meals, showers, exercise or other free time. I doubt anyone would consider it "humane treatment" (be it by State request or his own) that he serves a life sentence of solitary confinement.

I think there is a difference between Protective Custody and Solitary Confinement. It also depends on who charges him, the Feds or State. Massachusetts (I have read) has the death penalty for cop killers, whether the college campus cop meets that criteria or not I don't know for that state.