US_NavalBases.mis

[Sniper297]

I used the mission editor back in 2009 to hack that file, adding a new resupply base closer to the action. It had a stationary sub tender and tanker with a few patrolling destroyers, and worked very well. I'm now trying to add another, and in the process screwed up the first, and can't for the life of me remember how I did the first one.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7600/52332111.jpg

The bases themselves work fine for resupply, the only problem I'm having is disappearing ships - I place one, set it as a docked ship zero speed, uncheck the "Delete on last waypoint" box and save, but for some reason it's not in the game and it's gone the next time I open the LandUnitsLayer US_NavalBases.mis in the editor. What am I doing wrong here?

[Sniper297]

Maybe I should rephrase this, am I doing anything right?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5775/42540233.jpg

I'm using "Open LandUnits Layer" to open US_NavalBases.misto place these ships, should I be using a different menu option and/or opening a different .mis file to add anchored ships in these supply ports?

[Sniper297]

Restored a zipped backup with my original hack;

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4694/20002539.jpg

And there's all the stuff at the original addon base.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2686/57147879.jpg

And they're all present & accounted for whatever year I start a career. Trouble is trying to remember how I did it in the first place, none of the keyword searches I've tried turned up any clues.

[peabody]

I used the mission editor back in 2009 to hack that file, adding a new resupply base closer to the action. It had a stationary sub tender and tanker with a few patrolling destroyers, and worked very well. I'm now trying to add another, and in the process screwed up the first, and can't for the life of me remember how I did the first one.

The bases themselves work fine for resupply, the only problem I'm having is disappearing ships - I place one, set it as a docked ship zero speed, uncheck the "Delete on last waypoint" box and save, but for some reason it's not in the game and it's gone the next time I open the LandUnitsLayer US_NavalBases.mis in the editor. What am I doing wrong here?

The base is really all you need for the resupply, this ships just make it seem more realistic.
Your mistake is saving and opening as a "LandUnit Layer". Saving as a Land Unit does just what it says it saves ONLY "Land Units" which is the naval base in this case, the ships do not save. Just save as a Normal mission but you will have to go to the Mission menu, and in Parameters check "Ignore Player Units" and DO NOT put a sub in the mission.

[Sniper297]

Crud, I was hoping to add a couple of S boats tied up to the tender. :|\\ Anyway opening as a normal mission I get this kind of thing;

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5453/44090371.jpg

Obviously the bases don't actually need waypoints since this ain't an earthquake simulator so they shouldn't be going anywhere, but the rest of these errors are with stuff that I didn't put in, those units were from the stock game AFAIK. I checked those three and all are set as docked, so what's with the "too close" errors?

[Sniper297]

go to the Mission menu, and in Parameters check "Ignore Player Units"

That appears to be the key to the whole thing, with that checked on it ignores any errors and just saves it.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/434/62079334.jpg

That's what I got so far for the secret Luzon Straits resupply base, added a couple of shore batteries to defend it - the Marines have landed.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/553057_419661344782769_1040576968_n.png

To do list;
1. Figure out where the trees and bushes are, add camouflage to the tender - something like that you would normally have a steep shore with deep enough water close to the edge with netting and brush, that could be faked with just a small strip of land with a line of palm trees, or trees set on the masts.
2. After testing figure out how to package and upload the little beast for those who are interested.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8309/55877903.jpg

That's what it looks like after the fall of Java, instead of shifting to Australia and having to go 2000 miles just to get to where the fun is, the new base is closer to the action and resupply is only 1500 miles from Tokyo.

[peabody]

Crud, I was hoping to add a couple of S boats tied up to the tender. :|\\ Anyway opening as a normal mission I get this kind of thing;

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5453/44090371.jpg

Obviously the bases don't actually need waypoints since this ain't an earthquake simulator so they shouldn't be going anywhere, but the rest of these errors are with stuff that I didn't put in, those units were from the stock game AFAIK. I checked those three and all are set as docked, so what's with the "too close" errors?


Two things:
1. When I said don't put a "Player Unit", I mean don't set it as "Human Control" if it is going to put into the Campaign/Career. If it is just a "Single mission" then obviously you will need a player unit. If it is for the Campaign you can put in subs just Don't select Human control, you will be assigned a human control sub when leave base and having two may cause problems.

2. As for the too close, that usually happens when they are docked ships as you pointed out. The mission editor checks how close the ships are so they do not run into each other when the mission starts, that is why docked ships are usually too close to each other. But since they are not moving it does not matter. Another common warning is the first waypoint is too close. Sometimes if the waypoint is too close the ship can not change direction that fast depending on how close it is. So by placing it farther away it gives the ships time to get up to speed and if it is a group they get into position before they have to maneuver.
Also if you note they are all "Warnings" and you can ignore "warnings", If it is an "Error" it must be corrected or the mission will not save.

"Warning" you can ignore
"Errors" you must fix.

Edit: One more point, according to the "SH3 Mission Editor Manual" ALL units must have waypoints. All it really does it help you position it and face it in the right direction. So you don't need to worry about it, but you will get a warning. This mission editor for Sh4 does not have a manual, but it is almost the same program, with a few changes.

[Sniper297]

Yeah, further testing shows that for this type of "mission" the "Ignore player submarine" is the key to the whole thing. Place and align anything with no waypoints wherever you want, as long as that "Ignore player submarine" is checked on it will accept anything. Playtesting is important tho;

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5931/58283381.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4721/53973524.jpg

Put the static scenery subs too close to the tender or each other and they have collisions when the seas get rough. Only thing I've been unable to find is trees and bushes, environmental apparently only has icebergs.

[TorpX]

Put the static scenery subs too close to the tender or each other and they have collisions when the seas get rough. Only thing I've been unable to find is trees and bushes, environmental apparently only has icebergs.
Is there a way to change the land contours so you would have a sheltered place where the seas will be calm?

[Sniper297]

Not that I can find, I think this is purely a mission editor and not a scenery editor like you usually find in trainsims or flightsims. For its intended purpose, carrying the war closer to the enemy, it works well with what I got now - so the remaining question is how do I upload it, assuming there's any interest in this kind of mod? I don't see an upload button or FTP page anyplace.

[peabody]

Is there a way to change the land contours so you would have a sheltered place where the seas will be calm?


There actually is a program to do that, but not the mission editor. Someone used it to make the Panama Canal among other things. I think it was Terrain Extractor and Repacker. It takes a while to learn to use it, at least for me. I don't know if I still have it hanging around or not.

[Sniper297]

Yeah, main question right now is how do I upload to the file library? It will be open source so anyone can take over and improve on it if they wish, right now I just don't see how you're supposed to upload mods.

[TorpX]

There actually is a program to do that, but not the mission editor. Someone used it to make the Panama Canal among other things. I think it was Terrain Extractor and Repacker. It takes a while to learn to use it, at least for me. I don't know if I still have it hanging around or not.
Thanks Peabody, I thought I remembered reading/seeing some posts where someone was trying to make coral reefs or shoals or something like that.

If you did make a sheltered cove or harbor, it would be calmer, would it not?



main question right now is how do I upload to the file library?

I think you would have to get in touch with a moderator for something like that.

[aanker]

It is the GWX Terrain Extractor by Ref :)
- GWX_SH4TerrainEX.rar

Too bad that wasn't a trivia question........ lol

Happy Hunting!

[Sniper297]

Might be a bit beyond my current skills, I can't even figure out how to upload a mod at the moment. The basic resupply base mod is ready to go now, I'm fooling around with a fleet action - start an Asiatic career in Manila, there's a Japanese fleet coming into Manila Bay on the 9th. :timeout: Add one US battleship and a heavy cruiser, couple of light cruisers and destroyers, trying to time them so the player can get close to the enemy fleet before the friendlies so the player can whittle down the odds a bit (4 heavy cruisers and 2 Fuso class battleships, along with a Shokaku class carrier that I can't figure out how it got in there).

Cool way to start a career, right in the middle of a fleet engagement resulting from a surprise attack.

Couple items;
1. Starting times don't work right, the usual starting time for the player in a career is 1600 on the 9th, so I set the Japanese fleet to start at 1600 and the Americans to start at 1700 so I have a head start with the S class. No joy, they all ignore the hour and just start when the career starts (which is apparently also a variable time), so I had to add back and forth waypoints to delay the American response, still trying to tweak that.
2. Torpedoed the carrier but it didn't sink, gunfire from one of the US cruisers finished him off - you get no credit for sinking it unless yours is the last shot apparently. :down:
3. Starting with a Sargo class instead of a Sugar boat I managed to get to the enemy before anyone else, but when I fired two fish at a Takao class cruiser one of our Clemson class destroyers ran between me and the target and intercepted one of the fish. :oops: Got friendlies in the area gotta watch where you're shooting.
3. One test with an S and one with a Sargo so far, the battle is really cool but haven't been able to turn the tables enough to save any of the friendlies. It is a little unbalanced;

Japanese fleet;
2 destroyers
4 heavy cruisers
2 battleships
1 rogue carrier from who knows where

Americans coming in piecemeal from all over the bay;
3 destroyers
2 light cruisers
1 heavy cruiser
1 battleship
player sub

The goal is to knock off the enemy while keeping half the friendlies afloat, haven't pulled it off yet. Since this is the US_NavalBases.mis I'm adding this to, the next thing to test is will it just do that at the beginning of the Asiatic career, or will it repeat for every new patrol started in that career?

[Sniper297]

Third test with an S boat, reprogramming the Tennessee to get there sooner.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3259/59265230.jpg

Still on the surface within gun range of 4 heavy cruisers, since they're all concentrating fire on the Clemson just ahead of me.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6488/39792350.jpg

Now they sunk the Clemson and shifted their main batteries on me, time to pull the plug!

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2772/43609668.jpg

There's my primary targets, two Fusos ganging up on the Tennessee.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7836/60799410.jpg

Fired a few at some of the heavy cruisers on the way, since theyr'e closer to the Tennessee and all four are banging away at her. In the confusion I fired twice at the same one and fired at another that was sunk by gunfire before the torpedo hit.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1449/59288554.jpg

Bad angle but close into 700 yards before shooting the fish and he won't have time to dodge it.

[TorpX]

Well, don't keep me in suspense!

Did the USN win? :)

[Sniper297]

Of course not, that's the whole point. The player starts an Asiatic career (preferably at the tender rather than outside the harbor) and if he just avoids the battle the US Navy is lost. :huh: It's up to the player to start his career by being a hero and turn the tables - player action in balancing the odds makes all the difference. Without the player the IJN advantage;

Destroyers USN 2 IJN 1
Light Cruisers USN 2 IJN 0
Heavy Cruisers USN 1 IJN 4
Battleships USN 1 IJN 2
Carrier again no idea how that got in there, doesn't affect the battle but it's another target.

Ideally the goal is to sink 2 or 3 of the cruisers and at least one of the battleships, then the US surface ships have a fighting chance. Doesn't affect the career one way or the other, Manila is lost on the historical date whatever the outcome of the starting Battle of Manila Bay. Most recent test with a Sargo going to flank speed from the dock I got there ahead of the US ships coming from 3 different directions, sank the destroyer, carrier and 3 cruisers, got 3 hits on the two battleships but no credit for sinking either one since the US battleship and cruisers finished them off. That's probably hard coded into the game, unless you get the last hit that destroys the target you get no credit for the sinking. Probably why you don't see many fleet actions with player involvement, but credit or not it's just plain fun. Working on a video now, probably have it on YouTube in an hour or two.

[Sniper297]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsA-iSv2BLA

[Sniper297]

Not sure if this is good or bad. The original idea was to start a career with a scramble to meet an attack, after that the career would proceed as normal. Started a new one, defeated the enemy losing only two of the six US ships, headed out to complete the mission and ran into the usual Lingayen task force. Sargo class, so started with 22 torpedoes, expended about 12 on the Battle of Manila Bay so I had about 10 left. Sank a couple cruisers and a bunch of destroyers, 2 or 3 transports, then ran into another task force with 2 Kongos and some heavy cruisers. Sank one Kongo, disabled the second, waited for the escorts to give up and go away. Surfaced on the high side so the Kongo couldn't bring any guns to bear, and after expending all the ammo for the deck gun he was still afloat so I gave up and beat feet to the new Luzon Straits base to resupply. Ran into another Lingwayen invasion force, the kind that sort of drifts around occasionally running in circles, expended all torpedoes on that, then headed back to Manila arriving on the 14th. Started the second war patrol and discovered the original scenario repeats - apparently the way I set it up, it's geared to the start of any patrol.

So I'll fight that one out, IIRC Manila falls after Christmas and home port shifts to Java, so even if it repeats on the third patrol it won't affect anything since the player will never see it. Unless he gets that mission to drop off spies in Manila Bay, in which case he'll see the dismal aftermath.

[Sniper297]

Screwed up the approach, dove too soon, couldn't get within range in time. Only two US ships left, the Tennessee and one of the light cruisers, when I finally started shooting at the IJN cruisers and battleships. Then I discovered that rogue carrier isn't the only random element in this, a Yamato class battleship showed up out of nowhere! :huh:

Another video showing how confusing this can be;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckj2ypU9p08

[Sniper297]

Okay, got a bug in this;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=202298

One of them "stealth" bugs that doesn't show up right away - refit at a base and that cocks the hammer, but to trigger it you have to reload a save game from after the refit. No idea why (1) resupplying would have anything to do with internal instrument animation, or (2) why the problem doesn't show up immediately, it's only if you save after resupplying, exit, and reload the save, then it fixes itself when you end the patrol and start the next one - until you repeat the above, resupply, save, exit, load save game triggers it every time.

One guess, since I added a tender and assorted other ships to each supply base I edited the normal mission layer - possibly the bases themselves plus coastal batteries and AAA have to be added in the land units layer, then the ships added in the normal layer later on.

So back to the drawing board with this, gonna restart from stock 1.4 and also see if I can add the Manila campaign starting raid to a different mission which is called by the Asiatic campaign.

[aanker]

I posted this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2014825&postcount=9

- in this topic:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2014825#post2014825

...... basically - welcome to the club, I guess. I'm going to search my old emails and notes and see if I found an answer.

This was right around the time I got burned out and quit everything and anything to do with SH4.... lol

Happy Hunting!

[Sniper297]

I'm still trying to figure out what the question is, like why does it wait til reloading a save to show up? I went thru a lot of screwing around to download the original game to reinstall from scratch, it was originally Direct 2 Drive which apparently has been taken over by GameFly now. Somewhere in mine I had a Midway career start and a resupply base named Mios Woendi that was supposed to activate in October 43. I hacked that a long time ago to be active at career start, and become the home port after the fall of Java, but it was so long ago I don't remember how I did it. Mios Woendi is apparently in the original, but I looked it up on google maps and the actual Mios Woendi is in New Guinea 1000 miles away from where they have it. So I'm starting from scratch creating two completely new bases, main problem is that blasted land units layer is either not used for bases or I'm using it wrong. Second problem is time acceleration, testing this requires about 3 months of game time to make sure the changeover works correctly. :/\\!!

[aanker]

Ed Howard put a tremendous amount of time and work into making historically accurate bases and missions for the Pacific Thunder Campaign that he made into a stand-alone mod available at:

http://www.subsowespac.org/silent-hunter-4-mods.shtml

Yes, including Mios Woendi and numerous other bases. His mod is the "Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod" available on that page. Charts/maps are available for each patrol area and an XL spreadsheet listing the codes for each mission although I believe his mod is also a stand alone career.

There is a tool made by Kim Ronhof that allows you to change your patrol area, date, hull number etc and another tool that is patrol report generator from data from a save before returning to base.

You may want to look into Ed's mod - I really like it; I say I really like it because it is Ed's "Cycles mod" that we used for years converted into a stand-alone mod. You may want to study how he made it. Sounds like it holds a lot of answers you're looking for.

Happy Hunting!

[Sniper297]

Main problem is I have a working version that I made over five years ago, I can't remember how I did it, so it's unlikely I'd be able to analyze what someone else did. Current problem is I got the resupply working without disabling the internal view instruments, but this latest version has a different bug. I made a new base called Phantom 42 near some different islands, changed the flotillas.upc to make that the new home base instead of Fremantle. Which worked for Mios Woendi in my original version, but this one the tilted anchor goes to the new Phantom 42 base instead of Fremantle March 1 1942, when you get near it you get the option to End Patrol. So select that, then start a new patrol - and you start outside Fremantle.

So something still isn't configured right, I got the usnavalbases.mis and flotillas.upc set up but apparently there's another file that determines the start location for each patrol.

[peabody]

Main problem is I have a working version that I made over five years ago, I can't remember how I did it, so it's unlikely I'd be able to analyze what someone else did. Current problem is I got the resupply working without disabling the internal view instruments, but this latest version has a different bug. I made a new base called Phantom 42 near some different islands, changed the flotillas.upc to make that the new home base instead of Fremantle. Which worked for Mios Woendi in my original version, but this one the tilted anchor goes to the new Phantom 42 base instead of Fremantle March 1 1942, when you get near it you get the option to End Patrol. So select that, then start a new patrol - and you start outside Fremantle.

So something still isn't configured right, I got the usnavalbases.mis and flotillas.upc set up but apparently there's another file that determines the start location for each patrol.

If your starting location and your tilted anchor (base) are not in the same place you need to change these numbers in flotillas.upc:

DepartureDescription1= 13887966, -3846858, 270
DepartureDescription2= 13888720, -3847296, 270
DepartureDescriptionOut1= 13792344, -3862100, 352.689484


DepartureDescription1 and 2 are inside the harbor, the game will select one.

The DepartureDescriptionOut1 is outside the harbor. You hover your mouse over the map where you want to start in the mission editor and then look at the status bar at the bottom to get the first two numbers, the third number is the direction you will be facing.

[Sniper297]

Thanks, found the coordinate numbers and edited them. Gonna be a while, gotta start a new career every time I change something and it takes a few days to run from Dec 8 to March 1st every time. :/\\!!

[Sniper297]

Still testing on V2, the locked gauges hasn't shown up in this new version, but the US task group goes screwy sometimes. One of the patrol missions is to photograph a pair of anchored Japanese carriers at the north end of Manila Bay (how they got there while the US still had possession of the PI is anybody's guess). That turned into a conflict because the US battlewagons sank them both before I could snap the pics.

So I made the four US ships into a group with a single set of waypoints, starting them a lot further south so they wouldn't interfere with the enemy carriers for that career mission. I have them run at 2 knots before the first waypoint, then accelerate to 12 knots, that tweaks the timing for slow S boats without having to start them so far from Manila. That worked well for a few dozen tests, then when doing it with a Sargo I sunk all the enemy ships except a couple of destroyers I let get past me. When the US force came to the end of the run, only the two BBs and Northhampton heavy cruiser were there, the Omaha light cruiser was MIA.

So I started another career to trail the Omaha and find out if it was actually being sunk by a destroyer. Nope. What happened when I just lurked around to watch was they all four attacked the destroyer and sunk it, the heavy cruiser just stopped, the other three began milling around in circles like they forgot their waypoints.

Can't find any reference to "return to formation and waypoint routine after any engagement" so unless someone has ideas I should probably split the group up and give them each individual paths. :down:

[aanker]

Well, you know what happens to the DD now.

Is there any way to be out of range 50 miles or so, and see if you can meet the US Task Force at the appropriate time it is scheduled to reach its final destination ...... after it sinks the DD??

[Sniper297]

Dunno, after researching what battleships might have been available on Dec 9 in the PI, I started over and left out US battleships. Replaced with heavy and light cruisers, then added a couple destroyer groups trying to get a little balance for the sugar boat drivers. I added one Somers class to each of the two US cruiser groups then two groups of 3 Somers DDs.

This was after trying a flank attack with a squadron of PT boats, then I found in this game the PTs will only attack with 50 cals, they apparently don't understand that the "T" in "PT" stands for TORPEDO. :nope: As far as anyone knows the cruisers and tin cans don't do torpedo attacks either.

So the current setup is;

First group 1 Hiryu, 2 heavy cruisers, 1 destroyer.
1 gung ho crazy destroyer running at full speed to Cavite by himself.
1 BB with 2 heavy cruisers.
Another crazy destroyer doing a banzai charge.
1 BB who didn't want to wait for escorts charging in alone .
1 BB blocking the bay entrance.

US:
2 groups of 3 destroyers, sacrificial lambs to soften up the enemy before the cruiser groups.
1 group 3 heavy and 1 light cruisers, 1 DD
1 group 3 heavy and 2 light cruisers, 1 DD

The US group despite the numbers is outclassed, if I do nothing the six cans sink the Hiryu, damage the two heavy cruisers, then are all six sunk. The two cruiser groups never make it past them two Japanese heavy cruisers, the bad guys are left burning and DIW, but all the light and most of the heavy US cruisers are sunk or out of action.

Destroyers do some damage when they attack all together, the problem is in one aspect they're similar to the PT boats - they're maneuverable, so by god they're gonna MANEUVER! Watching on radar (got a hacked Sargo with SJ1 in 1941) the cans attached to the cruiser group detach and wander off exploring, while the ones in the destroyer groups do whifferdills, crazy eights, and triple toe axle loops that would give a figure skating judge orgasms.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1732x1082q90/513/s499.jpg

The two "groups" on the left start together and in the mission editor stay close enough together to provide mutual fire support, but in game the scurvy dogs go nuts. The red lines represent ships out of formation (BEFORE any contact with the enemy!!) and every one of them is a Somers class DD. There are 8 total, four are out of formation and the leader of the far left group is just getting back on course after his whifferdills, so he'll be 15 minutes later than the first group. When they all arrive piecemeal instead of together it's like skeet shooting for the Japanese heavy cruisers.

I'm trying to find something in the mission editor that will give all the US destroyer skippers a double dose of Thorazine, but no luck so far. I'm about to try it with an S class on full realism, Manila is toast. :arrgh!:

[Sniper297]

Forget the cans, replace with light cruisers, destroyers are nothing more than traffic hazards. And I'm making the destroyer officers walk the plank, seems the most seamanlike manner of dealing with lubbers like them. :arrgh!:

The balance in this is nuts trying to give the US a fighting chance, I researched the 2 Japanese and 1 US heavy cruiser classes;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takao-class_cruiser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furutaka-class_cruiser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northampton-class_cruiser

In a single ship to ship engagement a Northhampton SHOULD be able to beat a Furutaka, and two Northhamptons should be able to take on a single Takao, but these two in game seem to be tougher than the Bismark. Originally I used 8 Somers DDs (or 5 maybe 6, however many showed up instead of deciding liberty call was a better option) with 5 Northhamptons and 5 Omaha light cruisers. First engagement is a Hiryu, Fubuki, Takao, and Furutaka. The cans can sink the Hiryu and the destroyer easily enough, but the entire combined fleet gets pounded into scrap metal by the two Japanese cruisers, leaving Takao and Furutaka dead in the water but still banging away at anything within range. Finally got a total of TEN Northhamptons ganging up on the blasted unsinkable bastards, and that time one of them actually sank after wiping out 5 US cruisers and leaving three DIW. I swear I could sink both those enemy cruisers by hitting them with a baseball bat if I swung as many times as they were hit with HE rounds.

Anyway the end result will be the enemy invasion force will be outnumbered by the US forces, but with the three BBs and the oddball unsinkability of the four enemy heavy cruisers the Yanks will be heavily outclassed. So if you're an S boat fanatic playing this career mission on 100% reality you might as well count on doing nothing more than mopping up in a junkyard full of sunken US cruisers.