Mod related inappropriate aircraft A.I. behavior

[Yukicore]

Sooo, hoplefully nobody minds that I post this thread here, but I did not post this as a response to the mod thread, because it's not entirely related to the mod...? If I need to move this mod elsewhere, please do tell me, before deleting/moving, or at least after...

I installed Silent Hunter 5 mod for A.I. enhancement by The Dark Wraith. Ever since, aircraft is randomly attacking my submarine in the very beginning of the game (Randomly as of some patrolling units attack me, some not). And far as I know, the war has not been yet started, although declared, with England that is. I had played the game before without mods, didn't get any further than mission 3, but now I started a new Campaign with mods installed.

England's aircrafts, when playing without the mods, were just flying past me, didn't attack or anything, usually after me taking down a ship, to investigate. And if they'd saw me, they would send more aircrafts just to take watch at what I'm doing. But after installing the mod they have been randomly attacking me.

The issue is not that they are attacking me when war hasn't ''started'' yet, but that I can't figure out what determines their behavior. Also they are doing quite the damage, not sure if they did before, but a single aircraft damaged the submarines hulls by 55% on a single fly-by by mounted machine guns, perhaps, I don't know much about all the war stuff.

Although realistic, that they randomly attack, since frequently submarine attack radio messages get reported, it feels weird that some are attacking and some are not, since they shouldn't act on their own and have either permission to attack or attack order. Does anybody know about what makes them attack? Because the crew automatically spots them only when it's almost too late and sitting out the entire journey would be just too long and stupid. :shifty:

Thanks.

[gap]

3 thoughts:

- TDW's IRAI fixes partly the dumb aircraft AI. If you are using this mod, planes won't dive on you if they are out of ammo/bombs. :yep:

- IIRC, there's an unfixed bug in SH5, relative to the planes not attacking enemy contacts when following waypoints in campaign, even if they could. I may be wrong on this point, but I am sure Trevally will be able to provide some further detail on the subject.

- Machine guns (both aircraft and ship mounted) are overpowered in SH5. I will deal with this problem in the next future (I hope). I could release a quick fix right now, but I want to make sure that my changes are well balanced and free from whatsoever side effects. ;)

[Trevally.]

- IIRC, there's an unfixed bug in SH5, relative to the planes not attacking enemy contacts when following waypoints in campaign, even if they could. I may be wrong on this point, but I am sure Trevally will be able to provide some further detail on the subject.


Aeroplanes following waypoints in the campaign are only in the English channel - they are there for effect. They will fire at you if in range (cannons only) but will not leave their route. When these planes spot you, airbases (where free roaming planes are produced) will send extra out to attack you.

From 1943 forward - OHII added planes by waypoints in the Bay of Biscay.
These aeroplane are all fitted with radar. Planes following waypoints with radar will leave their route and attack:up:

[gap]

Thank you for your quick replies, Trevally!

Aeroplanes following waypoints in the campaign are only in the English channel - they are there for effect. They will fire at you if in range (cannons only) but will not leave their route. When these planes spot you, airbases (where free roaming planes are produced) will send extra out to attack you.

Well, since they are calling in for reinforcements they are not there merely for eye candy. They are just taking literally their patrol duties ;)


From 1943 forward - OHII added planes by waypoints in the Bay of Biscay.
These aeroplane are all fitted with radar. Planes following waypoints with radar will leave their route and attack:up:

:yeah:

Wonderful... ops, nevermind, I wanted to say horrible :wah:

(I think it's about time to recruit a German modder for him take over your work on OHII and dumb down a bit your terrific British defences :O:)

[Yukicore]

I'm using IRAI mod, so you guys mean that the planes, that aren't attacking me, have used all of their ammunition on other vessels/submarines? Why don't they go stock up and smoke a couple of cigarettes instead, that's pretty ridiculous, I have to dive so much because of the aircrafts. If only their guns wouldn't be so powerful and accurate, any mods relating to this?

Also, is there a way to take down their range of sight, because I highly doubt that everyone who flies the planes actually would look down all the time for something and spot submarines. There should be a randomizer that determines whether the plane will spot you or not. This would take down their chances of spotting me.

[Trevally.]

TDW has always said that the AI script for the planes was limiting.
He has done about as much as he can with it.
IRAI mod is the best mod for any AI scripting:ping:

Have you been attacked by a torp plane yet http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=188286

[Trevally.]

Dive bombed:arrgh!: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=188171

[Trevally.]

Another bomb run - this one missed:yeah:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196197

[Yukicore]

Another bomb run - this one missed:yeah:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196197

Do I have some kind of hardened mod of IRAI, because seriously from 1 plane dive with simple machine-guns I had hull integrity decreased to 56%.

I still completed the mission and got back, but with very cautious methods, as soon as I saw an aircraft headed my way, immediately dive to 30m and continue the course underwater for like 4 km, in case the support was called, and in night, I used full power to move as far as I can. I had decent amount of fuel, but always have to keep some in reserve, in case of unavoidable confrontation with warships, where you are forced to dive and wait.

I've never encountered torpedo bomber planes, I have a feeling, i'm not going to enjoy my first encounter, although it keeps the tension up, I like that. But the magnetic torpedoes are not working anyways, right? Just have to move or dive and move to avoid contact.


OH, AND please do tell me if the jiggly surfacing with the mods is realistic, because I'm not sure myself, it feels kinda cheap looking, what do you think? Trevally, what kind of mods are you using for sea parameters and buoyancy?

[THE_MASK]

I am playing on 100% realism with all the mods and hardly ever get detected by planes . I am only up to may 1940 though . What year are you playing in ? I stay well away from the coast where possible . Stay away from english ports .

[Trevally.]

OH, AND please do tell me if the jiggly surfacing with the mods is realistic, because I'm not sure myself, it feels kinda cheap looking, what do you think? Trevally, what kind of mods are you using for sea parameters and buoyancy?

This is still my mod list here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190656

I do not use an environ mod. I have made my own but it is mostly stock game setting.

[gap]

If only their guns wouldn't be so powerful and accurate, any mods relating to this?

not yet, but have you read my previous post:


Machine guns (both aircraft and ship mounted) are overpowered in SH5. I will deal with this problem in the next future (I hope). I could release a quick fix right now, but I want to make sure that my changes are well balanced and free from whatsoever side effects. ;)

A mod dealing with this and many other related issues is on its way to come here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1935329#post1935329

Do I have some kind of hardened mod of IRAI, because seriously from 1 plane dive with simple machine-guns I had hull integrity decreased to 56%.

IRAI has nothing to do with machine-gun damage: it deals "just" with AI :yep:

[Yukicore]

IRAI has nothing to do with machine-gun damage: it deals "just" with AI :yep:

But it has to do with accuracy and tactics.

[THE_MASK]

The only adjustments i know is in iRAI .

IRAI_0_0_37_ByTheDarkWraith\data\Scripts\AI\init
adjust the max numbers
No idea if this works on planes as well as ships .
################################################## ###############
###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 0.85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 0.85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 0.85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 0.85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 0.85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 0.85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 0.85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 0.85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 1.0;

[gap]

But it has to do with accuracy and tactics.

You said well: it has to do with accurate AI tactics, but not with accurate armaments. This is where the below said WIP mod will come in help. :know:

[Yukicore]

Anyone knows if ships after sinking go underground is a bug or it's mod related fix or something...? Under ground like trough it, they hit the underwater's ground surface and after 3 seconds or so, they go trough it.

My game is doing that, not a big fan of that, I preferred that they stay there...

Is this me only having this? Anyone knows how to fix this?

[volodya61]

Fix it? :o

Sunken ships should be output from the game (from memory, etc.)..
How else would you do this?

[gap]

Time to create a SH5 wrecks diving mod? :hmm2:

[Trevally.]

Time to create a SH5 wrecks diving mod? :hmm2:

Dive scapa flow (http://www.divescapaflow.co.uk/index.php/en/) :hmmm:

[Yukicore]

Fix it? :o

Sunken ships should be output from the game (from memory, etc.)..
How else would you do this?

Well, I am so not gonna find that, I am horrible at modding myself

I don't expect you to help me, but it would be really nice if you could find out what's going on with this. :dead:

Do you have this thing yourself?

Do any other users here have this?

[gap]

Dive scapa flow (http://www.divescapaflow.co.uk/index.php/en/) :hmmm:

I am at it :salute:

http://animated-gifs.org/wp-content/themes/frugal/graphics/cat/scuba-diving/scuba-diving-008.gif

mmm... this porthole has to be a souvenir of sober's last visit at Orkneys :hmmm: :O:

Well, I am so not gonna find that, I am horrible at modding myself

I don't expect you to help me, but it would be really nice if you could find out what's going on with this. :dead:

I am not even sure that it is moddable. Could be hardcoded :yep:


Do you have this thing yourself?

Do any other users here have this?

Everyone. But peple tend to consider it a RAM saving feature, rather than a bug. Maybe they are right :03: :)

[THE_MASK]

I guess the disappearing ships are one way to keep the RAM down . Not a bug if you dont cheat using external cams .

[gap]

I guess the disappearing ships are one way to keep the RAM down . Not a bug if you dont cheat using external cams .

:sign_yeah:

[Yukicore]

NO, NO, NO.

With the base model of the game the ships stay underwater forever, or at least until I'm gone from there, of course I know it because of external camera, but it impacts the gameplay actually, as in shallow waters the ships upper part would stay above waterline and you would have to avoid that are at all costs, unless you have a mod that ruins this.

Also another thing I noticed is that sometimes no holes are being created from torpedo impacts + when torpedo is about to impact, it first goes trough the ship, and when about in the middle, then it explodes.

I also think that I would have missed a torpedo, if it weren't for that bug, as it would have kicked off the ship, as it would have been at about 35 degree angle on ship's hull impact, if it would have entered trough the ship's hull and exploded. I was desperate for the kill and I was chasing and torpedoing the target from behind with my last torpedo and low fuel percentage.

I'm using TDW's FX Update.

[gap]

With the base model of the game the ships stay underwater forever, or at least until I'm gone from there

Never noticed it, but honestly I only played the unmodded game for no more than a few hours. Moreover I and many other players here, are using external cam only for taking screenies and for testing mods, so we might have overlooked this detail.

I'm using TDW's FX Update.

Since you are sure that without mods ships stay on the seabottom forever, there's a chance that FX Update is the mod making them to disappear. Call it bug or feature. On the other hand, the above mod adds in game so many other cool features, that I wouldn't recommed you to give it up just for this minor "side effect". :yep:


Also another thing I noticed is that sometimes no holes are being created from torpedo impacts + when torpedo is about to impact, it first goes trough the ship, and when about in the middle, then it explodes.

Have you enabled Open Horizons II?
This mod adds to the game many custom ships, imported from other versions of the game. They are in a different format than the one introduced in SH5, and they are thus affected by several flaws. Damage not visible from below water is exactly one of the main issues that have been reported since they were inported. Torpedo holes should be still rendered flawlessy on stock units though :up:

[volodya61]

With the base model of the game the ships stay underwater forever, or at least until I'm gone from there...

This has NEVER been..

EDIT: I just tried and loaded the full stock.. ALL sunken ships disappear/fall through the bottom within 20-30 seconds...

[Yukicore]

This has NEVER been..

EDIT: I just tried and loaded the full stock.. ALL sunken ships disappear/fall through the bottom within 20-30 seconds...

Interesting, well in deeper waters I was watching the ships underwater 30seconds max, after the impact to the ground.

And at shallow waters I had ship that had hit the bottom of the sea, but stayed there for as long as I was there, as I was passing it, as it was in the way of my set course.

That means that there is some way to increase/decrease the time it's there. Any ideas where that might be? Hopefully not each ship specific... :P

Never noticed it, but honestly I only played the unmodded game for no more than a few hours. Moreover I and many other players here, are using external cam only for taking screenies and for testing mods, so we might have overlooked this detail.

I often use it to enjoy the view of submarine in the sea, but of course with out it, nothing can beat the feeling when you are submerged and know that a warship is trying to scan you and blow you (that's what she said, sorry :D) up with depth charges

Since you are sure that without mods ships stay on the seabottom forever, there's a chance that FX Update is the mod making them to disappear. Call it bug or feature. On the other hand, the above mod adds in game so many other cool features, that I wouldn't recommed you to give it up just for this minor "side effect". :yep:

Yeah, I figured right after I said that :D I removed it, but yet haven't found any ship to blow up, maybe the dead ship problem will be fixed too.

Have you enabled Open Horizons II?
This mod adds to the game many custom ships, imported from other versions of the game. They are in a different format than the one introduced in SH5, and they are thus affected by several flaws. Damage not visible from below water is exactly one of the main issues that have been reported since they were inported. Torpedo holes should be still rendered flawlessy on stock units though :up:

Not yet, for some reason I am waiting till I complete the campaign, is that the right thing to do? Or should I activate it right not?

[gap]

Interesting, well in deeper waters I was watching the ships underwater 30seconds max, after the impact to the ground.

And at shallow waters I had ship that had hit the bottom of the sea, but stayed there for as long as I was there, as I was passing it, as it was in the way of my set course.

Possibly there's a trigger which despawns sunk ships when they go down a given depth. You can trust Volodya if he's telling you that this behaviour is already present in the stock game :yep:


That means that there is some way to increase/decrease the time it's there. Any ideas where that might be? Hopefully not each ship specific... :P

There is always a way. I don't think it is ship specific (never seen a similar command within ship files), but I supsect it is an hardcoded feature. If so, only very few people could try modifying it, and they didn't reply to this thread. At least nt yet :)


Not yet, for some reason I am waiting till I complete the campaign, is that the right thing to do? Or should I activate it right not?

Yes, if you are installing OHII for the first time it is better doing it before starting a new campaign. But it is worth it, believe me :up:

[Yukicore]

Possibly there's a trigger which despawns sunk ships when they go down a given depth. You can trust Volodya if he's telling you that this behaviour is already present in the stock game :yep:



There is always a way. I don't think it is ship specific (never seen a similar command within ship files), but I supsect it is an hardcoded feature. If so, only very few people could try modifying it, and they didn't reply to this thread. At least nt yet :)



Yes, if you are installing OHII for the first time it is better doing it before starting a new campaign. But it is worth it, believe me :up:

K. Thx.
Gotta find that ship despawn code somewhere, I'd like the ships to be visible for longer period of time, one of the activated mods I have has modified this value.

[TheDarkWraith]

K. Thx.
Gotta find that ship despawn code somewhere, I'd like the ships to be visible for longer period of time, one of the activated mods I have has modified this value.

Better be good with a Debugger. It's hard coded in an act file. I know where the code is in the act file but never went down that path :)

[volodya61]

:)

WOW!!!
You come back to us!!!
:woot::yeah::woot:

[TheDarkWraith]

WOW!!!
You come back to us!!!
:woot::yeah::woot:

I was never gone. Work has been keeping me out of the country and busy.