RMS Titanic Hit Points

[AndreasT]

Hi all, my query is that I loaded a few extra ships into SH3 using GWX. I actually encounted the Titanic in a convoi. Great I thought, tons and tons of ship to sink. I fired three torpedos at it. Of course two missed. One torpedo hit it, and it sank in a flash. Now for a ship which is unsinkable I found this a bit annoying. Can I, may I change the ships hit points? How do I do it?
I have no knowledge of modding and do not want to stuff up the game.
Thanks in advance.
Andreas

[Aces]

Hi mate,

I can't answer your question about hit points I'm afraid but the best and safest way to go about modding so as to avoid "stuffing up your game" is to do a second "modding" install of the game and any "core" mods such as GWX etc. and use JSGME to install any trial mods. You can use Multi-SH3 so that you can have two (or more) installs of the game each with their own save game folders.

Edit: I think that you should be looking at zones.cfg and find your ship entry in that file.

Cheers

Aces

[Madox58]

Grab S3D and open the zon file.
(I use a Hex editor myself)
Look for the ColisionableObject controller.
HitPoints are listed there.
Just up the setting to your taste.

[Aces]

There you go!, thought an expert would appear soon enough to answer your query :), Hi Jeff, hope you are well mate.

cheers

Leigh

[Madox58]

Doing fine Leigh.
:yep:

As to the zone.cfg,
Messing with the HitPoints there causes a universal change to all Units useing the zone you change.

Working the Unit .zon file only applies to that Unit.
For example:
the Junk has a value of 175
while the Bismark has a value of 800

Not sure what the Titanic has as I don't have that installed.
Don't even know how well the zon for it is setup.
That's a whole different ball game!
:haha:

[Aces]

Thanks for the info Jeff, always nice to learn new tricks :)

Glad to hear that you are doing well mate.

Why not stop by Modders United for a gander when and if you have a bit of time.

Take care mate

Cheers

Leigh

[Madox58]

Well now I feel stupid!!

Just read the credits from VonDos and seems I worked the zon file!!
:oops:

I think I'll go through it again.
But remember this!
For an unsinkable Ship?
It went down pretty fast in real life!
:haha:

[Aces]

don't worry mate, I have those "Senior" moments quite often nowdays :D

[Herr-Berbunch]

Just read the credits from VonDos and seems I worked the zon file!! :oops:

:har:

I don't know why I'm laughing, I know squat about modding. And to be fair, you've done quite a lot so I doubt you'd remember it all. :doh:

[Madox58]

I looked at the zon setup and remember doing it now.
:haha:

It was a side project to help VonDos while We were finishing up GWX 3.

I also recall it was not as good as it could be given the proper attention.
Now that means there are some areas that a torpedo could possibly hit that would cause no damages at all.

I'll have to install it and do a few test shots on the areas I saw today to be sure.

I don't use S3D for zone work by the way.
:03:

[AndreasT]

Thanks for the tips. As far as know six of the sixteen watertight compartments were ripped open on the collision. A singel torpedo would open maximum two if it hit the middle of two.
The ship is massive and the reward is a bit stale when it goes under with one hit.

[Madox58]

Well, there's been ALOT of research into the actual cause of the sinking.
Substandard metal used and bad design, etc.

The Brittannic went down in 55 minutes from a single hit.
(Mine or torpedo. It's not clear which)
And the Britannic was completed AFTER the Titanic disaster and included upgrades to avoid such a sinking.

That's one factor used when the zon file was originally built for VonDos's Titanic.

[AndreasT]

Mmm now that is a dilemma, but my feelings tell me one torpedo for such a large ship is not right. If I would like to change the ZON file is it under "ColisionableObject"? Am I right there?

[Madox58]

Yep. It's set to 700 hit points now.
You can up that as you wish.
:D

[AndreasT]

I think I will have to learn this all, no don't let me become a modder.
The titanic has 700 and the Bismarck has 800, not really much difference.
What value does 100 have. I need to do some studing here I realise.
Thank you very much.
This all remind me of my youth when I used to play war games. I played this naval war game with ship models and we had a formula to calculate ship strengths using the armour strength of turrets, belts, decks etc.

[Sailor Steve]

According to reports, there were many factors contributing to the loss of Britannic, including such minor but avoidable things as the nurses leaving portholes open to ventilate the lower decks. Silly, but you never know.

As for the differences between Britannic and Bismarck, I don't know how hitpoints work in the game, but there are major differences. For a WW2-era battleship things are different. The armored belt is all but useless against torpedoes, first because despite being hardened armor where an underwater blast of that sizes is concerned it's just plain old steel, and second because the armor belt is heavy and its size has to be limited, so normally torpedoes can pass under it. Battleships carried special anti-torpedo bulges below the armor belt, which were designed to be frangible, and for the most part they did a pretty good job. Once hit they became useless against another hit at that same point, but that was unlikely. Yamato was observed to take two hits at the same point, the second of which damaged one of the engine rooms, so it could happen.

Ocean liners had nothing like that.

[AndreasT]

But I would think a battleship is build to take a hit or two and survive, I mean they are build to get shot at. The Germans did regard the Bismarck as unsinkable, like the Titanic.

[Sailor Steve]

Of course. I was just explaining the special bulges needed to protect against torpedoes. The armored belt protects against incoming gunfire (within certain limits), and does a great job, but not against torpedoes.

[Madox58]

I've seen every ship in SH3 go down in mere seconds.
One thing we can never control is how the Game works EVERYTIME.
It's a trade off.
What you are free to do is mod things as you wish.
What we did was do a damage model VonDos liked.
I've seen reports that it took days in Game for it to sink to mere seconds in Game.
I can make it nearly impossible to sink but the facts say it was a rock to start with.

So the Nurses left ports open. That still does not cover the fact that that very situation was NOT supposed to happen after the re-design!
Not for a single hit!
And that was WWI explosives. Not WWII.

[Sailor Steve]

I've seen reports that it took days in Game for it to sink to mere seconds in Game.
And that's the best you can ever hope for, and as close to reality as it gets. :sunny:

[Jimbuna]

But I would think a battleship is build to take a hit or two and survive, I mean they are build to get shot at. The Germans did regard the Bismarck as unsinkable, like the Titanic.

As fine a design as the Bismarck was (and Tirpitz for that matter)...no ship is or ever was unsinkable.

[AndreasT]

As fine a design as the Bismarck was (and Tirpitz for that matter)...no ship is or ever was unsinkable.
Well many things like that have been claimed in the past and will be claimed in the future. Although there is a crowd which claim the Bismarck was scuttled. Regarding the pounding she got she would have gone down one way or another.

Actually what I would like to know what does the "ArmorLevel" do in the ZON file?

[Sailor Steve]

Although there is a crowd which claim the Bismarck was scuttled.
She was scuttled. She was also torpedoed. Both sides have claimed the other was wrong for the past seventy years. I've always like the words of Baron Von Mullenheim-Rechberg in the documentary I saw: "To both I say 'Yes, you sank us.'"

Regarding the pounding she got she would have gone down one way or another.
Exactly. I once had a 'discussion' with one of those who believed Bismarck to be 'unsinkable'. I pointed out that the ship was a burning, listing wreck which would have gone down within hours anyway. The torpedoing and scuttling were both merely attempts to prevent the wreck from being salvaged by the other side.

Oh, and I have to thank you. In looking online to get the Baron's name right, I stumbled on the book written by himself. Now I have to buy it. :sunny:

WOOHOO! $1.99 + shipping from Amazon for a collectible = $5.98 total!

[AndreasT]

I will check up on Baron Von Mullenheim-Rechberg. I think often that people like to build up a kind of nimbus about certain thing like an unsinkable Bismarck, the 88mm Flak cannon, the Tiger and Panther tanks. The stronger the enemy the better the victors.

[Sailor Steve]

Yeah. I had another "conversation" with a fellow American who insisted that the P-51. was absolutely the best fighter of WW2. I tried to show him that the Mustang's reputation came mainly from the fact that it was the only single-engine fighter that could fly from England to Germany and back, thus escorting bombers all the way. The latest marks of Spitfire, Bf-109 and FW-190 all had points in which they were superior. Of course he refused to give up the propaganda he had grown up with, and it was a lost cause.

Except in certain specific times, there is rarely an absolute "best" of anything.