[WIP] Historical Guns Specs [Archive] - Page 4

gap

03-17-13, 12:37 PM

Gabriele :salute:

never.. all the deck equipment (I mean - flaks, deck gun, scopes, antennas etc.) usually repaired very quickly.. even if Rongel's mod (Longer Repairs) enabled.. and funny and very annoying stock bug: all the deck equipment able repaired when submerged..

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway

At least this is my experience. As I told before, looking into their settings I have noticed our guns don't have any zone assigned to them, therefore I am surprised that we still get the message "deck gun damaged, sir" at times. Adding damage boxes/spheres around our guns in not a big deal. I have also noticed that there are two special categories, 'Light Weapons' and 'Heavy Weapons' in Zones.cfg file, which are used for AI unit's armaments (whose guns, incidentally, can be disabled by damage). I hope that the same tag will work with player's guns.

Also notice that player gun's damage is converted into efficency reduction rates and repair times according to the settings contained in Weapons.upc.
There's a set of settings for each gun. For the single C/38 they are:

;DamageDescription1= Taken_DamageType, MinDamage, MaxDamage, MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance, chancefactor, Message, Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP, Spawned_Damage_Type, EfficiencyReduction, repair_skill, repairtime_in_hours
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Jam, 0, 0, NULL, 1, 0.3, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0, 1, 0, 0.5, 1, Chamber Explosion, 50, 5, NULL, 1, 2, 10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun

for each row, we have:
Taken_DamageType: not sure about this. Stock setting is invariably NULL for all the equipments
MinDamage, MaxDamage: this is a percent of equipment's hit points; it set the range of damage at which the next settings will be applied;
MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance: not sure about this
chancefactor: the probability in percent that the next settings will be applied [?]
Message: damage description (probably not used)
Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP: the damage spawned to nearby zones [?]
Spawned_Damage_Type: see mi comments on 'Taken_DamageType'
EfficiencyReduction: this is how much the functionality of the given equipment is affected by the damage, in percents. In our case, I am not sure how this setting would be reflected in therms of gun performance, but a value of 1 (=100%) should totally disable it;
repair_skill: the crew training in percents required for repairing the damaged equipment; if bigger than 1, the equipment not reparable
repairtime_in_hours: self explanatory :03:

keysersoze

03-17-13, 01:34 PM

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway

This has been my experience. When attacked I will often get the message "Flak gun damaged!" immediately followed by "Flak gun operational!" I also noticed during my experimentation with depth charge settings that the deck and flak guns are almost never damaged, even when I increase the strength of the depth charges to absurdly high levels. Coincidentally, I also get these contradictory messages with other subsystems at times, but in those cases the equipment actually does get damaged.

volodya61

03-17-13, 01:39 PM

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway..

You got me right :03:

a. yes
b. yes

And what do you think about:

very annoying stock bug: all the deck equipment able repaired when submerged..

gap

03-17-13, 02:03 PM

This has been my experience. When attacked I will often get the message "Flak gun damaged!" immediately followed by "Flak gun operational!" I also noticed during my experimentation with depth charge settings that the deck and flak guns are almost never damaged, even when I increase the strength of the depth charges to absurdly high levels. Coincidentally, I also get these contradictory messages with other subsystems at times, but in those cases the equipment actually does get damaged.

Okay, I think this odd behaviour can be fixed. My plan is to:

1. mimic jamming guns, for the FlaKs which were reportedly more prone to this kind of problem
2. make guns to take actual damage
3. make guns to malfunction when they get damaged over a given limit
4. make gun repairs to take a realistic time, depending on the type of damage
5. make destroyed guns irreparable

any suggestion?

And what do you think about:

Giving our frogmen a long leave could be a bit trickier, if possible at all :hmm2:

P.S: thank you guys for your fast answers :salute:

gap

03-18-13, 08:27 AM

Just found this (http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=1953&st=0&sk=t&sd=a) interesting thread about a SH5 U-boat physics mod by Ducimus & Co, which was in the doing back in 2009. Thank you guys if you are reading us! :sunny:
First information I got from it, is that guns drag coefficients are not in the same scale as the drag coefficients used for ships, submarines, etc; in the first post of the aforementioned thread, it is stated:

Deck gun with 3000 drag Coef = speed reduction of 0.9 kts

I propose to change accordingly our settings. My calculations, based on weight (gun + mount + ammo loadout), are as follows:

20mm_C30: 580 = 0.17 kn
20mm_C30_2: 575 = 0.17 kn
20MM_C38_Twin: 895 = 0.27 kn
20MM_C38_Twin_shield: 925 = 0.28 kn
Vierling: 2,665 = 0.8 kn
37_mmM: 2,955 = 0.89 kn
37_mmSA: 2,185 = 0.66 kn
37_mmTSA: 3,530 = 1.06 kn
Deck_Gun_GE88mm: 4,125 = 1.24 kn
Deck_Gun_GE105mm: 4,120 = 1.24 kn

I propose to use them as base settings during our tests, provided that you can't provide better figures than the ones estimated by me :salute:

volodya61

03-18-13, 01:22 PM

I propose to change accordingly our settings. My calculations, based on weight (gun + mount + ammo loadout), are as follows:
....
I propose to use them as base settings during our tests, provided that you can't provide better figures than the ones estimated by me :salute:

That's great, Gap.. very, very essential and important part I think..
I would slightly reduce your settings (don't get me wrong, just IMO :O:)

gap

03-18-13, 02:11 PM

That's great, Gap.. very, very essential and important part I think..
I would slightly reduce your settings (don't get me wrong, just IMO :O:)

At the moment we have no quantitative information relative to the effect of guns on sub handling. Unless keysersoze or someone else can provide historical data, we are free to set those parameters as we want. :up:

For your information, conning towers got too their additional drag coefficients. :sunny:
After setting them, we will need to finetune U-boat physical parameters, so to make boat performances (with standard equipment) to match historical specifications. Do you agree with the plan?

volodya61

03-18-13, 02:52 PM

After setting them, we will need to finetune U-boat physical parameters, so to make boat performances (with standard equipment) to match historical specifications. Do you agree with the plan?

Compare :salute:

You know, I was, am and will totally agree with you.. seriously..

gap

03-18-13, 03:52 PM

Compare :salute:

You know, I was, am and will totally agree with you.. seriously..

That's perfect. :D

Another idea I had: I think you should really sign a blank check and send it to me... :O:

volodya61

03-18-13, 04:09 PM

Another idea I had: I think you should really sign a blank check and send it to me... :O:

:rotfl2:

In our 'bearish' country, we almost don't use checks.. just bags of cash.. :yep: :O:

gap

03-18-13, 04:30 PM

:rotfl2:

In our 'bearish' country, we almost don't use checks.. just bags of cash.. :yep: :O:

In this case I think that a case will be enough. High-denomination banknotes, please :cool: :03:

THE_MASK

03-18-13, 04:34 PM

Just on a side note . I think that DDs fire there guns at your general direction if you are submerged at periscope depth .
Silent Hunter 5\data\Env\SeaParameters
TransparencyDistanceUnder=19.000000

volodya61

03-18-13, 04:39 PM

In this case I think that a case will be enough. High-denomination banknotes, please :cool: :03:

Do not you satisfied in small denominations? couple of bags? :03:

gap

03-18-13, 04:42 PM

Just on a side note . I think that DDs fire there guns at your general direction if you are submerged at periscope depth .
Silent Hunter 5\data\Env\SeaParameters
TransparencyDistanceUnder=19.000000

Is that parameter really applied? IIRC, the feature that you are talking about didn't work before IRAI fixed it :hmm2:

gap

03-18-13, 04:44 PM

Do not you satisfied in small denominations? couple of bags? :03:

Okay, since you are a good friend I will accept your proposal :haha:

keysersoze

03-18-13, 10:20 PM

At the moment we have no quantitative information relative to the effect of guns on sub handling. Unless keysersoze or someone else can provide historical data, we are free to set those parameters as we want. :up:

I took a short break from studying today and found some information that might be useful to understand drag. Much of it is highly technical, but it might give you some ideas for balancing drag coefficients. First, here are a couple quotes from Ulrich Gabler's Submarine Design:

Regarding wave drag at different depths:
At a depth equal to 4.5 times the diameter of the boat (measured from the center of the pressure hull to the water surface), the wave drag will not yet have disappeared completely in the higher speed ranges. Consequently, a vessel of 5 m in diameter must dive to 25 m (measured from the keel to the water surface) before it can escape the adverse effect of wave drag on its cruising performance in the higher speed ranges. At the slower speeds, however, wave drag is insignificant, even at periscope depth. (p. 31)

Regarding periscope drag:
An extended periscope on a submarine of 500 cu. m. displacement of the total form and good lines will cause an additional drag of 30 percent at 4 knots; the drag decreases to 8.5 percent at 10 knots.
(p. 32)

Note that he is talking about true submarines, as opposed to submersibles like U-boats, in the above quotation. I would imagine that the physics for an extended periscope would be similar, but I don't know enough about modern submarine design to say for certain.

And this:

The submerged drag increases approximately with the square of the speed. (p. 32)

Here are two PDFs that might also be helpful. I have only had time to skim them very briefly, so I can't give you any specifics. This first Australian defense study is interesting. It also contains a concise summary of drag equations as an appendix:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d0opglynbhsr9it

The second PDF is probably less useful, but I included it for good measure:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?134360wcio6bwoe

gap

03-19-13, 11:39 AM

keysersoze

03-19-13, 12:42 PM

Thank you Keyser. I am currently busy with a more trivial task (I want to replace the poor shell icons visible in gun camera with real shells used on U-boats), but I will have a look into the essays pointed by you as soon as possible :salute:

Sound like a great project :up:

The two PDFs are quite long, so it's probably not necessary to read them in their entirety (unless you enjoy that sort of thing :03:). The Australian defense study is actually fascinating, even if it is not always directly relevant to flak gun drag. I would not spend too much time obsessing with the drag equations. Unless we can find specific numbers pertaining to U-boats, this information is more useful as a general guideline for game balancing.

gap

03-20-13, 10:37 AM

Just found some more information on U-boat gun ordinance:

U-boat Munitions (http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,59377,59381#msg-59381) thread on uboat.net. Talking about type IX U-boats, it reports (unrefernced):

20mm ammo: 8100 rounds (when using 2 twin 20 mm guns); HE tracer and HE tracer incendiary, (Minengeschoß (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minengescho%C3%9F) used after June '43);
37mm ammo (gun model not specified): 2575 rounds; HE , HE tracer and HE incendiary;
105mm ammo: 150 rounds; AP, HE, incendiary and star shells.

U-boat deck guns (http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,45838,45839#msg-45839) thread on uboat.net:

88 and 105mm ammo: AP, HE and star shells (David Miller's "U-boats" mentioned as source);
HE (with or without tracer) were surely available, but some doubts are raised on the utility of carrying star shells and AP rounds; the following reasons are abduced:

HE rounds would have been more than enough to breach the 5-8 cm plating of merchants (and destroyers, escort destroyers, frigates, sloops, etc);
moreover, HE rounds would have caused a bigger hole ( 2.5 feet for 10.5 cm ammo) than AP shells.
on the other hand AP rounds were reportedly known to pass right through merchant hulls and explode in the water on the far side of the ship, thus causing an hole of the same diameter as the projectile
their use would have been productive only against vessels that U-boats would have normally avoided.

F.d.U./B.d.U.'S War Log 16 - 30 June 1943 (http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30326.htm):

The unsafe 2 cm ammunition (incendiary H.E. tracer shell self destroyer) was superceded by the incendiary H.E. without tracer and on 1.7.43 by the A.P.H.E. shell tracer self destroyer.
Advantages of the first: Explosive charge three times as late. (Hexogen), very effective against unprotected surfaces (mine projectile)
Disadvantages of the first : No tracer, or effect on armor plating.
Advantage of second: Good armor piercing performance, tracer.
Disadvantages of second: Small explosive charge, no effect on unprotected surfaces.
For the time being both kinds are to be fired in the ratio of 1:1.

keysersoze

03-20-13, 03:17 PM

I've been doing some work on turm and flak availability and cost, but I have questions about two issues

First, if I'm not mistaken the starting turm arrangement in SH5 is with the flak gun sited on the after deck, rather than on the bridge. But Robert Stern writes that this arrangement was abandoned before the war, due to a number of disadvantages with having the flak gun so far from the tower hatch. He says:

This siting for the 2cm gun [on the after deck] didn't last long. Its disadvantages, whether the gun was to be used against aircraft or ships, were so obvious that remedy was demanded by BdU. By the beginning of the war, all Type VIIs already launched had the 2cm resited to the after end of the tower and all subsequent boats were built to this configuration (p. 100).

My second question has been bothering me for a while now. Does anyone know what the C/30 twin that exists in SH5 is supposed to represent? Most of my sources never refer to a C/30 twin being fit to any U-boat towers. As far as I can tell, the upgrade path went from single C/30 to single C/38, then to twin and quad C/38s, and finally to the 37mm guns. There were variations along the way, especially with the MG151 and the Breda 13.5mm guns.

Stern is the only source that explicitly mentions a C/30 twin:

As soon as the materials were available, all boats were to receive a second flak platform (known as the Wintergarten) with a twin 2cm C/30 mounting, below and aft of the existing one. Until this twin mount was available, boats were to keep their single 2cm C/30. This arrangement was to be the basic Flak defence suite, known as Turm 1....These plans were modified a number of times during the following months in the light of experience. On 28 September 1942, BdU reported to Hitler that the MG151 was inadequate due to poor range and penetrating power. The one boat that had been fitted with the Turm 1 Flak suite, U553, had failed all test (p.101-103)

I'm probably just missing the obvious, but is it safe to assume that the C/30 twin and the MG151 are the same gun? Is he using "C/30 twin" and "MG151" interchangeably? As an additional complication, I've found conflicting evidence about whether the MG151 used a 15mm or a 20mm cartridge. The wikipedia article suggest the original Luftwaffe gun was redesigned to fit the 20mm round in 1941, which might be the source of this confusion. Does anyone have additional information about this?

gap

03-20-13, 06:47 PM

I've been doing some work on turm and flak availability and cost...

:yeah:

...but I have questions about two issues

First, if I'm not mistaken the starting turm arrangement in SH5 is with the flak gun sited on the after deck, rather than on the bridge. But Robert Stern writes that this arrangement was abandoned before the war, due to a number of disadvantages with having the flak gun so far from the tower hatch.

That's true, in game, the standard armament for Type VIIa U-boats includes a single FlaK C/30 mounted on the deck, abafter stern. I will check my sources to see what they say on the topic.

My second question has been bothering me for a while now. Does anyone know what the C/30 twin that exists in SH5 is supposed to represent?

The gun that you are talking about is designated as twin C/38 in stock game, but it got practically the same specifications as the twin C/38 with shield. Since in my opinion it was pointless to have two slightly different models of the same gun, I decided to convert the unshielded version into a double C/30. :yep:

Most of my sources never refer to a C/30 twin being fit to any U-boat towers. As far as I can tell, the upgrade path went from single C/30 to single C/38, then to twin and quad C/38s, and finally to the 37mm guns. There were variations along the way, especially with the MG151 and the Breda 13.5mm guns.

Stern is the only source that explicitly mentions a C/30 twin:

Your historical specifications document makes mention of a twin C/30, and I am sure that it is also listed in some of my sources (I need to recheck them, though). The gun was probably only of marginal use, or maybe its use was initially planned but never really implemented. I will post an update on it as soon as I find the above mentioned sources :hmm2:

I'm probably just missing the obvious, but is it safe to assume that the C/30 twin and the MG151 are the same gun? Is he using "C/30 twin" and "MG151" interchangeably? As an additional complication, I've found conflicting evidence about whether the MG151 used a 15mm or a 20mm cartridge. The wikipedia article suggest the original Luftwaffe gun was redesigned to fit the 20mm round in 1941, which might be the source of this confusion. Does anyone have additional information about this?

There are no many sources on the MG151, besides the one you have already mentioned. In any case, it is sure that the FlaK C/30 and the MG151 were two completely different guns :yep:

keysersoze

03-20-13, 07:16 PM

That's true, in game, the standard armament for Type VIIa U-boats includes a single FlaK C/30 mounted on the deck, abafter stern. I will check my sources to see what they say on the topic.

One other source mentions that the transition happened "before 1940."

The gun that you are talking about is designated as twin C/38 in stock game, but it got practically the same specifications as the twin C/38 with shield. Since in my opinion it was pointless to have two slightly different models of the same gun, I decided to convert the unshielded version into a double C/30. :yep:

Ohh, that makes more sense. So there is no C/30 twin in the stock game? I never survive long enough to make it to the later years so I don't know from experience :O:

Your historical specifications document makes mention of a twin C/30, and I am sure that it is also listed in some of my sources (I need to recheck them, though). The gun was probably only of marginal use, or maybe its use was initially planned but never really implemented. I will post an update on it as soon as I find the above mentioned sources :hmm2:

Yes, my mentioning the twin C/30 in that document was a consequence of the aforementioned quote from Stern's book, as well as the fact that I thought I had seen a C/30 twin discussed in this thread. It was a misplaced desire to be complete, whereas I should have raised my concerns immediately :oops: I don't believe I have ever found any specifications for a C/30 twin. I see that I listed range and ceiling data for it, but I believe that was a copy & paste mistake from copying the C/38 twin chart. I'm pretty sure Skwiot does not mention a C/30 twin either.

I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps BdU requested a twin C/30 mount with dual MG151 twin in June 1942, but no twin C/30s were ever produced or fitted, since the C/38 proved a better adaptation anyway.

There are no many sources on the MG151, besides the one you have already mentioned. In any case, it is sure that the FlaK C/30 and the MG151 were two completely different guns :yep:

Sounds good and thanks for the clarification :up:

gap

03-20-13, 07:53 PM

One other source mentions that the transition happened "before 1940."

I need more time to gather all the information I have on conning tower usage. As soon as I get it ready I will share it, so to make you able to take a more pondered decision.

Ohh, that makes more sense. So there is no C/30 twin in the stock game? I never survive long enough to make it to the later years so I don't know from experience :O:

...

Yes, my mentioning the twin C/30 in that document was a consequence of the aforementioned quote from Stern's book, as well as the fact that I thought I had seen a C/30 twin discussed in this thread. It was a misplaced desire to be complete, whereas I should have raised my concerns immediately :oops: I don't believe I have ever found any specifications for a C/30 twin. I see that I listed range and ceiling data for it, but I believe that was a copy & paste mistake from copying the C/38 twin chart. I'm pretty sure Skwiot does not mention a C/30 twin either.

...

I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps BdU requested a twin C/30 mount with dual MG151 twin in June 1942, but no twin C/30s were ever produced or fitted, since the C/38 proved a better adaptation anyway.

Navypedia lists all the possible gun/mounts conbination. No mention is made of a twin C/30, so you are probably right: this gund didn't exist anywhere but in my fantasies :doh: :O:
Unless we find some contrary evidence, I will revert its specs to C/38 standards, but with slightly better handling and lesser armor than the shielded version (hoping that my destructible gun tweaks will work) :03:

keysersoze

03-20-13, 08:26 PM

I need more time to gather all the information I have on conning tower usage. As soon as I get it ready I will share it, so to make you able to take a more pondered decision.

Thanks and take your time

Navypedia lists all the possible gun/mounts conbination. No mention is made of a twin C/30, so you are probably right: this gund didn't exist anywhere but in my fantasies :doh: :O:
Unless we find some contrary evidence, I will revert its specs to C/38 standards, but with slightly better handling and lesser armor than the shielded version (hoping that my destructible gun tweaks will work) :03:[/QUOTE]

Sounds good. I will let you know if I find anything else...fingers crossed that the destructible gun tweaks work :yeah:

gap

03-20-13, 08:44 PM

Thanks and take your time

Have you looked into uboat.net (http://uboat.net/technical/flak.htm) yet? It says:

In 1939 and 1940 the weapon [the FlaK C/30] was located aft of the tower and it served its purpose up to a point. But it was quickly apparent that this was no an effective defence. In the following years the conning tower (Germ. Turmumbau) was rebuilt several times for better AA defence.

Then it lists some turm upgrades (from I to IV) plus a few special configurations.

Sounds good. I will let you know if I find anything else...fingers crossed that the destructible gun tweaks work :yeah:

:sign_yeah: :D

keysersoze

03-21-13, 12:41 PM

Have you looked into uboat.net (http://uboat.net/technical/flak.htm) yet? It says:

Then it lists some turm upgrades (from I to IV) plus a few special configurations.

More controversy :hmmm: If that is correct, then maybe Stern meant that all previously constructed Type VIIs were in the process of having the gun re-sited at the outbreak of the war. I'm not sure why this would take until 1940, though. I will see if Skwiot mentions anything about this.

gap

03-21-13, 01:10 PM

More controversy :hmmm: If that is correct, then maybe Stern meant that all previously constructed Type VIIs were in the process of having the gun re-sited at the outbreak of the war. I'm not sure why this would take until 1940, though. I will see if Skwiot mentions anything about this.

From David Miller's U-boats History, Development and Equipment, 1914-1945 (p. 30):
"Also, The original Type VIIA mounted a single 20mm cannon at deck level abaft the tower, which was principally intended for use against surface ships, but with a secondary anti-aircraft role. However, it was so close to the tower that it had only a limited field of fire and on the Type VIIB it was moved to a platform at the after end of the bridge."

If we have to believe it, we should deduce that the deck-mounted 20mm gun was the one armament design used on VIIA U-boats, abandoned with the Type VIIB.

EDIT: I am attaching Miller's description of Type VII's tower variations. He also makes some light on the MG151's controversy :yep:

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/7/conningtowervariations.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4241/conningtowervariations.jpg)

gap

03-21-13, 02:23 PM

Quick addition: David Westwood's The Type VII - Anatomy of the Ship got some good drawings of various armament and conning tower arrangements. You can get this book for free from scribd (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23575323/Anatomy-of-the-Ship-Type-Vii-U-Boat).

Of special interest:

table A2: General arrangement Type VII as in 1936-39 (p. 28-29)
tables A3-A4: General arrangement Type VIIB as in 1940 (pp. (pp. 30-31)
tables A5/1 and A6/1: General arrangement Type VIIC as in 1944 (pp. 33, 37)
tables A12/1 to A12/16: Variations in bridge layout and armament (pp. 42-47)

In particular, from tables A12/1 and A12/3, it can be seen that Type VIIA, and the VIIB in its original form, had one 20mm gun mounted abaft tower. This layout was modified on 1940 for the Type VIIB, with the addition of a wintergarten to the turm :up:

gap

03-21-13, 02:43 PM

Another piece of the puzzle: according to Möller and Brack (The encyclopedia of U-Boats, p. 69), Type VIIA's armament included:

"...one 2cm Flak or (from 1944) one 3.7cm and four twin 2cm Flak."

so it seems that even VIIA boats had their conning tower upgraded, but indeed by the reported date, no one of them was a front boat anymore. :03:

keysersoze

03-21-13, 04:02 PM

Thanks for the citations :yeah: Skwiot also indicates that the re-siting of the 20cm occurred in early 1940:

The first alterations were made in early 1940 aboard Type VIIC U-boats. The rear part of the bridge was widened and a 2 cm MG C/30 installed there, but this soon proved inadequate (p. 368).

I think we can safely discard Stern's statement.

As for the MG151, it's not really imperative that we model it, as I have only ever found reference to its installation aboard U553, and then only for trials. Skwiot also mentions that there was some experimentation as early as 1936 with a twin C/30 mount for destroyers, but that these tests were unsatisfactory and were discontinued. Maybe BdU thought of reviving a Dopp. C/30 mount in June 1942, but then gave up on the idea when the C/38s became available.

All of our sources seem to be in relative harmony about the dates and composition of the turm upgrades, so I don't think it will be too difficult to set renown cost and availability for them. But on the same subject, do you know how the game handles replacing the tower in relation to replacing the flak guns? It seems that upgrading the tower and the flak guns happened simultaneously. For example, upgrading to Turm II should not just change the tower arrangement, but it should also add a second C/38 mount on the wintergarden. Will the game automatically add a second gun, or will we need to purchase it with renown? I don't think a boat would have been upgraded to Turm II unless a second C/38 was available and ready to be installed.

keysersoze

03-21-13, 04:05 PM

Another piece of the puzzle: according to Möller and Brack (The encyclopedia of U-Boats, p. 69), Type VIIA's armament included:

so it seems that even VIIA boats had their conning tower upgraded, but indeed by the reported date, no one of them was a front boat anymore. :03:

Yes, Blair notes that the Type VIIA boats were hampered by poor range (they lack the saddle tanks of the later Type VIIs) and problems with their diesels. Of the ten Type VIIs built, I think only about three or four of them survived to 1940, and these quickly became training boats in the Baltic.

gap

03-21-13, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the citations :yeah: Skwiot also indicates that the re-siting of the 20cm occurred in early 1940:

I think we can safely discard Stern's statement.

I agree :)

As for the MG151, it's not really imperative that we model it, as I have only ever found reference to its installation aboard U553, and then only for trials. Skwiot also mentions that there was some experimentation as early as 1936 with a twin C/30 mount for destroyers, but that these tests were unsatisfactory and were discontinued. Maybe BdU thought of reviving a Dopp. C/30 mount in June 1942, but then gave up on the idea when the C/38s became available.

I also agree. In any case, since the MG151 is currently not modelled in game, reasoning on it is a bit premature, though I don't exclude the addition of new guns when we will discover how GR2 animations do work. Whe are relying on TDW and our talented 3D modellers on it. :03:

All of our sources seem to be in relative harmony about the dates and composition of the turm upgrades, so I don't think it will be too difficult to set renown cost and availability for them. But on the same subject, do you know how the game handles replacing the tower in relation to replacing the flak guns? It seems that upgrading the tower and the flak guns happened simultaneously. For example, upgrading to Turm II should not just change the tower arrangement, but it should also add a second C/38 mount on the wintergarden. Will the game automatically add a second gun, or will we need to purchase it with renown? I don't think a boat would have been upgraded to Turm II unless a second C/38 was available and ready to be installed.

Good question. I haven't gone that far in the game. I think turm upgrades are selectable as other upgrades from the upgrades selection interface. Nonetheless, they are not listed among other upgrades in UpgradePacks.upc. Any ideas? :hmmm:

Even so, the available conning towers are visible in the Submarine Parts folder of each playable U-boat type: type VIIA got only one of them, VIIB got three, two for VIIC and again two for the VIIC/41. Subtracting the standard towers which each U-boat is issued with, it means respectively 0, 2, 1 and 1 upgrades. Each configuration got a number of "slots". I didn't look in depth into the way these slots are set yet, but I think each of them can accept only some guns. UnitParts*.upc files might play a role in assigning the standard gun mounted on each slot of each conning tower, and in setting the ones which can be accepted as upgrades.

I am currently dealing with other stuff, but investigating the aforementioned settings before dealing with dates and renown costs might be opportune, if you get time for it. :yep:

gap

03-21-13, 06:27 PM

Little request: can someone send me an unmodded copy of UpgradePacks.upc, found in data\UPCDataGE\UPCUnitsData?

Seems that I have overwritted it with by mistake... :-?

volodya61

03-21-13, 07:17 PM

Little request: can someone send me an unmodded copy of UpgradePacks.upc, found in data\UPCDataGE\UPCUnitsData?

Seems that I have overwritted it with by mistake... :-?

whatever you want :03: - http://rghost.ru/44669804

gap

03-21-13, 07:37 PM

whatever you want :03: - http://rghost.ru/44669804

Thank you mate :salute:

gap

03-23-13, 06:59 AM

gap

03-24-13, 03:40 AM

first trials with menu editor successful :up:

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/837/sh5img20130324033910.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/753/sh5img20130324033910.jpg)

I tried to keep the screen as clean as possible, grouping most of the FlaK camera items toward the right edge of the screen (notice the scaled down ammo loading progress bar).

Round selection icons represent the Long Solothurn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20%C3%97138mmB) cartridges, really used by C/30 and C/39 FlaK's:

http://www.questmasters.us/sitebuilder/images/2cm_Boxes_6s-397x296.jpg

The remaining guns will get as well their own ammo selection icons, representing as closely as possible their real counterparts. Moreover, tooltips for each round were customized, so to have different designations for each caliber; I used the British/American designation followed, for immersion, by the German one: :|\\

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/804/sh5img20130324033827.jpg

On a slightly unrelated note, I have tried playing with 'AmmunitionIntervalOptions' and 'AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent' settings (Ammunition.upc), for having different ammo outfits at different stages of the war (see below):

[Ammunition 1]
ID= 20mmAPGer
NameDisplayable= 2cm APHE-T ammo
Type= AmmoShell
Subtype=20mmAPUS
AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= 1943-06-16, NULL, 0
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1943-06-16, NULL, 0
Volume= 1
PackSize=40

[Ammunition 2]
ID= 20mmHEGer
NameDisplayable= 2cm HEI ammo
Type= AmmoShell
Subtype=20mmAPUS
AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= 1943-06-16, NULL, 0
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1943-06-16, NULL, 0
Volume= 1
PackSize=40

[Ammunition 3]
ID= 20mmAAGer
NameDisplayable= 2cm HEI-T ammo
Type= AmmoShell
Subtype=20mmAPUS
AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, 1943-06-16, 0
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= NULL, 1943-06-16, 0
Volume= 1
PackSize=40

Unfortunately, it didn't work: all the round types assigned to each gun in its sim file are loaded onboard, both in campaign and in single mission, no matter the availability dates I had set. I wonder if the Ammunition setting are applied at all, when it comes to shell ammo :hmmm:

EDIT:

I have just accomplished another test: I have created some new shell definitions in a custom dat file (I have called it 'Shells_1.dat'), and assigned the new shells to the C/30 FlaK and... guess what? I was able to fire the new shells in game flawlessy. It means that we can have as many shell dat files as we want, as far as they are located in te correct folder. Good finding for compatibility with other mods affecting the stock file.

I am going to do the same test with Baza_FX and particles.dat now :sunny:

Trevally.

03-24-13, 08:30 AM

Good work there Gap:woot:

gap

03-24-13, 10:27 AM

Good work there Gap:woot:

Thank you Trevally :salute:

...we can have as many shell dat files as we want, as far as they are located in te correct folder. Good finding for compatibility with other mods affecting the stock file.

I am going to do the same test with Baza_FX and particles.dat now :sunny:

It works!
I have created a custom dat file, where I have placed a trace particle generator with tweaked color settings; I then assigned the new tracer effect to one of the new shell definitions. This is the result: :cool:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9448/sh5img20130324134000.jpg

Now I want to try making tracers trails longer and adding some white smoke to them. Any suggestion on how they would have actually looked, guys?

keysersoze

03-24-13, 11:07 AM

more discrepancies LOL :doh:

uboatarchive (http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesArmament.htm) lists some typical specifications pertaining to U-boat armaments. Practical rates of fire reported for deck guns and 2 cm FlaKs are in line with our settings, but not the ones relative to 3.7cm guns:

SK C/30U: 12 rpm (slower than the 10.5cm deck gun!) vs. 30-40 rpm reported by other sources;
M42 U: 40 rpm vs. 150

Moreover, it is specified an M42 clip size of 8 rounds which, even considering the trick of loading one or two loose shells in advance, doesn't add up with the 5 rounds reported by most other sources :hmm2:

I'm not sure what to make of the numbers reported for the SK C/30U and M42. John Campbell (Naval Weapons of World War II) also reports 30 rpm for the C/30U and 160-180 rpm for the M42, though he does set the magazine size of the M42 at six instead of five rounds. I think we can probably discount the magazine size given in the uboatarchive.net source. Although I have trouble believing the SK C/30U could fire slower than the deck gun, I will admit that 30-40 rpm seems very fast for a manually loaded gun. :hmmm:

first trials with menu editor successful :up:

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/837/sh5img20130324033910.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/753/sh5img20130324033910.jpg)

I tried to keep the screen as clean as possible, grouping most of the FlaK camera items toward the right edge of the screen (notice the scaled down ammo loading progress bar).
...

Looks beautiful gap. Great work! :yeah:

I have just accomplished another test: I have created some new shell definitions in a custom dat file (I have called it 'Shells_1.dat'), and assigned the new shells to the C/30 FlaK and... guess what? I was able to fire the new shells in game flawlessy. It means that we can have as many shell dat files as we want, as far as they are located in te correct folder. Good finding for compatibility with other mods affecting the stock file.

I am going to do the same test with Baza_FX and particles.dat now :sunny:

:up: Is there any chance of simulating the Minengeschoss 20mm by adding a new shell type for June 1943? I suppose we would still run into the problem of not being able to control ammunition loadout by date :hmmm:

It works!
I have created a custom dat file, where I have placed a trace particle generator with tweaked color settings; I then assigned the new tracer effect to one of the new shell definitions. This is the result: :cool:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9448/sh5img20130324134000.jpg

Now I want to try making tracers trails longer and adding some white smoke to them. Any suggestion on how they would have actually looked, guys?

Very cool. I don't know much about tracer appearance, but you might be interested in this link as a reference for tracer color and the frequency with which tracers were loaded:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/german/flak2_dmourtizsen.html

One suggestion, which might be impossible given pixel limitations, would be to make the tracers "thinner." They always seemed a little bit too thick to me. At around 0:50 of this video, you can see an example of Flakvierlings firing at night. The tracer pattern seems a bit sleeker than what we have in stock SH5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCYiIKa1w1g

gap

03-24-13, 01:09 PM

Thank you for your feed-back keysersoze :salute:

I'm not sure what to make of the numbers reported for the SK C/30U and M42. John Campbell (Naval Weapons of World War II) also reports 30 rpm for the C/30U and 160-180 rpm for the M42, though he does set the magazine size of the M42 at six instead of five rounds. I think we can probably discount the magazine size given in the uboatarchive.net source. Although I have trouble believing the SK C/30U could fire slower than the deck gun, I will admit that 30-40 rpm seems very fast for a manually loaded gun. :hmmm:

Okay, I will keep M42's magazine size unchanged and, as for for M42 and SK C/30 practical RoF's, I will try devising some compromise settings. I would happily discard uboatarchive.net's data at all but I suspect that, applying directly to Uboats, their information is lesser generic than the average figures provided by other sources.

:up: Is there any chance of simulating the Minengeschoss 20mm by adding a new shell type for June 1943? I suppose we would still run into the problem of not being able to control ammunition loadout by date :hmmm:

yes, I have currently set 3 types of 2cm shells: HEI-T, HEI (the famous Minengeschoss) and APHE-T. My original plan was making HEI / APHE-T (1:1 proportion) to replace HEI-T ammunition after mid June '43. Unfortunately all my tests with gun ammo availability dates failed miserably; however, we can differentiate ammo loadouts for each gun and, as a compromise, we can give later guns late ammo outfit. This is not the best option indeed, but still better than nothing. :hmm2:

Very cool. I don't know much about tracer appearance, but you might be interested in this link as a reference for tracer color and the frequency with which tracers were loaded:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/german/flak2_dmourtizsen.html

Cool web page, thanks. As you can see from 20mm ammo selection icons, I had actually planned to use red tracers for APHE-T ammo, and green ones for HEI-T, but maybe I should switch colors, as red tracers were reportedly the most common type, and HEI-T ammunition is going to be the only one used by 2cm Flaks for the longer part of the campaign. As for Minengeschoss, ideed I won't give tracer to it.

One suggestion, which might be impossible given pixel limitations, would be to make the tracers "thinner." They always seemed a little bit to thick to me. At around 0:50 of this video, you can see an example of Flakvierlings firing at night. The tracer pattern seems a bit sleeker than what we have in stock SH5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCYiIKa1w1g

Good video. I like especially the smoking muzzles, I didn't think that small caliber guns could have produced that mutch smoke lol. I will make 2cm tracer's trails much longer and narrower, and I will try mimicing that smoke. :up:

By the way, here's another good video (original color footage!), showing U-boat's armamaments in action: torpedoes, deck gun, and what I think is a single Flak C/30. Just skip to 2:16 :03:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-2JH_uBuyg

keysersoze

03-25-13, 12:05 AM

I would happily discard uboatarchive.net's data at all but I suspect that, applying directly to Uboats, their information is lesser generic than the average figures provided by other sources.

You are probably right that their data can be applied much more specifically to u-boats than information found in most of our other sources. I wish there were sources listed for their figures. :hmmm:

yes, I have currently set 3 types of 2cm shells: HEI-T, HEI (the famous Minengeschoss) and APHE-T. My original plan was making HEI / APHE-T (1:1 proportion) to replace HEI-T ammunition after mid June '43. Unfortunately all my tests with gun ammo availability dates failed miserably; however, we can differentiate ammo loadouts for each gun and, as a compromise, we can give later guns late ammo outfit. This is not the best option indeed, but still better than nothing. :hmm2:

While not a perfect solution, I think this is quite acceptable. AA armament changed very little for the first three years of the war, but then evolved rapidly in 1943, just when many of the new shells were also entering operational service. :yeah:

Good video. I like especially the smoking muzzles, I didn't think that small caliber guns could have produced that mutch smoke lol. I will make 2cm tracer's trails much longer and narrower, and I will try mimicing that smoke. :up:

:up:

By the way, here's another good video (original color footage!), showing U-boat's armamaments in action: torpedoes, deck gun, and what I think is a single Flak C/30. Just skip to 2:16 :03:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-2JH_uBuyg

Wow, thanks for that video. I am tempted to say it was "cool," but that's not quite the right word for it. "Intense" is maybe better. There must be lots of great U-boat footage hidden away in archives around the world. It would be really interesting to know which boats were depicted in those film clips and whether they were shot spontaneously or for propaganda purposes.

THE_MASK

03-25-13, 12:53 AM

What about getting rid of tracers altogether like i did with my latest gun mod . Reasons for this were . Increase the suspense by a massive amount during game play by the player not knowing which ship is firing at you unless you can see the muzzle flash . The player is more likely to not attack a convoy surfaced unless early in the war , which is more realistic i think . Its harder to use the deck gun yourself which is more realistic , thats the crews job . No gun tracers combined with the smoke screen mod bring the suspense to a whole new level (no external cameras) .

gap

03-25-13, 04:57 AM

You are probably right that their data can be applied much more specifically to u-boats than information found in most of our other sources. I wish there were sources listed for their figures. :hmmm:

So do I.

In general, information reported by uboatarchive is directly derived from first hand sources; they even publish their sources, when possible. :up:

The best first hand documents I was able to access from their website so far, are the Cumulative Edition - CB 04051(103) of British Interrogation Reports (http://www.uboatarchive.net/CumulativeEdition.htm) and, even better, the U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII C (http://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm), directly issued by Kriegsmarine. They are respectively dated June '44 and July '40, which is also good, because they account for both early and late war specifications, thus complementing each other.

Unfortunately, the German U-boat manual doesn't make reference to any rate of fire, but it provides precious information on early ammo outfits (p. 56):

Ammunition.
Total amount of ammunition that can be carried:
8.8 cm munitions: 205 rounds HE shell C/35
MG C/30 munitions: 1500 rounds
Of these in munitions magazine in officers room between Frames 50 ½ – 53:
177 rounds 8,8 cm HE shell C/35
1200 rounds MG C/30

Ready-use ammunition for the S.K. C/35 is stored in pressure-proof canisters [one shell to a canister placed in a rack] in the upper deck just aft of and outside the operating circle to both sides of the conning tower:

28 rounds 8.8 cm HE shell C/35
3 ammo clips with 20 rounds each are stored in the conning tower.
The munitions magazine in officers room is connected to the flooding and drainage installation.

As for the British document, it is more explicit. On 42M, it states a rate of fire of 40-50 rpm in a table at p. 16, and it further details the above figure in another table at p. 18, by stating: "40 approx. (semiautomatic) 60 (fully automatic)". This is in partial accordance with the practical RoF of 40 rpm, stated elsewhere in the same website. :yep:

Moreover, in the table at p. 18, under the 'Ready use rounds carried' column, it is said "21 containers on deck each holding 25 clips of 5" and, in a note the first table:

(a) This 37 mm. is fully automatic; the 37 mm. which was fitted to some U-Boats earlier in the war was breech loading and had a much slower rate of fire. The new 37 mm. has since late 1943 been replacing the quadruple 20 mm. as a standard fitting (fact) but there are indications that it may itself now be removed because of frequent jamming under marine conditions. (B2)
(b) Ammunition is in clips of five.

This should dispel any doubt about the size of M42's magazines :up:

Summing up, in our settings I would reduce M42's practical RoF to 60 rpm (maximum) by altering reload times, and I would keep the 5-round clip size. As for the SK C/30, I am tempted to use the same RoF as the 88mm deck gun: 18-20 rpm.

Lastly, please note that nowhere it is said that the new 40-round magazines entered service in Ubootwaffe. 20 rounds is the figure stated by most sources relative to U-boat armaments; I start wondering if we shoudn't revise our settings accordigly though it would suck indeed :-?

While not a perfect solution, I think this is quite acceptable. AA armament changed very little for the first three years of the war, but then evolved rapidly in 1943, just when many of the new shells were also entering operational service. :yeah:

Unfortunately, this is the only option left, unless TDW can devise a patch for making the game to use ammo shells availability settings. :yep:

Wow, thanks for that video. I am tempted to say it was "cool," but that's not quite the right word for it. "Intense" is maybe better.

Yes, "intense" is probably a more appropriated definition.

Sad as they are, let's share this sort of visual documents, whenever we can. Talking about it, this is another video I had previously shared in another thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Mvy7uNHxY

Despite the silly background music, quite making it to resemble an ILS-2 video capture (I usually don't disdain trance music, but in other contexts), it is actual wwii footage showing some P-47 Thunderbolt as they are shooting their tracer ammo on enemy targets :-?

There must be lots of great U-boat footage hidden away in archives around the world. It would be really interesting to know which boats were depicted in those film clips and whether they were shot spontaneously or for propaganda purposes.

I bend toward the propaganda. Right then, film recording cameras had to be a rare item, and I doubt that a "free lance" documentarist could have got so close to Nazi weaponry :03:

What about getting rid of tracers altogether like i did with my latest gun mod . Reasons for this were . Increase the suspense by a massive amount during game play by the player not knowing which ship is firing at you unless you can see the muzzle flash . The player is more likely to not attack a convoy surfaced unless early in the war , which is more realistic i think . Its harder to use the deck gun yourself which is more realistic , thats the crews job . No gun tracers combined with the smoke screen mod bring the suspense to a whole new level (no external cameras) .

I see your point sober.

This mod will feature tracer ammunition in limited stocks. Where possible, the tracer/no tracer proportion will reflect historical usage.
Currently I am more concerned about giving tracers a lesser gamey look, but I don't exclude the development of an optional patch removing tracers at all, as per your suggestion :up:

gap

03-25-13, 06:56 AM

Increase the suspense by a massive amount during game play by the player not knowing which ship is firing at you unless you can see the muzzle flash

I forgot to mention that by tweaking the TimeToStart property of the TrailParticleGenerator, we can probably simulate delayed tracers thus making attacker's position lesser obvious. However, it is to note that according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition#Other_applications), delay element are more typical of "most modern tracers".

keysersoze

03-26-13, 11:49 AM

So do I.
In general, information reported by uboatarchive is directly derived from first hand sources; they even publish their sources, when possible. :up:

The best first hand documents I was able to access from their website so far, are the Cumulative Edition - CB 04051(103) of British Interrogation Reports (http://www.uboatarchive.net/CumulativeEdition.htm) and, even better, the U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII C (http://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm), directly issued by Kriegsmarine. They are respectively dated June '44 and July '40, which is also good, because they account for both early and late war specifications, thus complementing each other.

These are great documents. I've read much of the "U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII" document before, but had never seen the British interrogation reports.

This should dispel any doubt about the size of M42's magazines :up:

:up:

Summing up, in our settings I would reduce M42's practical RoF to 60 rpm (maximum) by altering reload times, and I would keep the 5-round clip size. As for the SK C/30, I am tempted to use the same RoF as the 88mm deck gun: 18-20 rpm.

I think these are sensible alterations. I am also beginning to wonder about the SK C/30's rate of fire. From a subjective perspective, I think it would be hard to manually reload such a weapon fast enough to achieve anywhere near 40 rpm.

Lastly, please note that nowhere it is said that the new 40-round magazines entered service in Ubootwaffe. 20 rounds is the figure stated by most sources relative to U-boat armaments; I start wondering if we shoudn't revise our settings accordigly though it would suck indeed :-?

Yes, this is also troubling. In fact, many of our sources, such as Skwiot and Mehl, mention the 20 round magazine at least as often as they mention the 40 round magazine. It seems clear to me that both magazines were used at some point in the war, but it is difficult to pinpoint exactly when transitions occurred or the frequency with which different size magazines were employed. It might be that the 20 round magazine stuck around longer than we originally thought :hmmm:

Unfortunately, this is the only option left, unless TDW can devise a patch for making the game to use ammo shells availability settings. :yep:

I have faith...TDW can do anything :03:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Mvy7uNHxY

Despite the silly background music, quite making it to resemble an ILS-2 video capture (I usually don't disdain trance music, but in other contexts), it is actual wwii footage showing some P-47 Thunderbolt as they are shooting their tracer ammo on enemy targets :-?

Very interesting video, and another good example of historical tracer appearance.

I bend toward the propaganda. Right then, film recording cameras had to be a rare item, and I doubt that a "free lance" documentarist could have got so close to Nazi weaponry :03:

That is probably true, although there were many reporters aboard U-boats, such as Lothar-Günther Buchheim in U-96. I don't think he took any videos, but there are hundreds of excellent pictures from the famous "Das Boot patrol." Of course, these guys were not really journalists—they were basically on board the U-boat for propaganda purposes, but that did not stop Buchheim from expressing some strong anti-war views. But at least the pictures or videos they took are footage of the "real" war, not contrived images from training boats in the Baltic made to look like they are on patrol.

TheDarkWraith

03-26-13, 01:25 PM

Unfortunately, this is the only option left, unless TDW can devise a patch for making the game to use ammo shells availability settings. :yep:

Game already has this. You just need to assign a different gun to the date in the unit's .cfg file. That gun would have the shells wanted/needed. Obviously you would have to clone the gun in the GR2 file for this to work. The GR2 Editor/Viewer is not at that point yet.

Targor Avelany

03-26-13, 01:36 PM

gap

03-26-13, 01:37 PM

These are great documents. I've read much of the "U-boat Information for U-boat Type VII" document before, but had never seen the British interrogation reports.

yep, precious sources that will come in handy for the next phase of our project :03:

Talking about the British interrogations, besides the cumulative edition you can also access the individual reports from link below:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BritishInterrogationReports.htm

They are great when it comes to appraise the usage of any specific equipment at various stages of the war, and how useful it was considered by U-boat crews :yep:

I think these are sensible alterations. I am also beginning to wonder about the SK C/30's rate of fire. From a subjective perspective, I think it would be hard to manually reload such a weapon fast enough to achieve anywhere near 40 rpm.

Exactly! This is especially true if you think what an unstable and cramped gun platform U-boats had to be. In view of your approval I will implement the suggested modfications right away :up:

Yes, this is also troubling. In fact, many of our sources, such as Skwiot and Mehl, mention the 20 round magazine at least as often as they mention the 40 round magazine. It seems clear to me that both magazines were used at some point in the war, but it is difficult to pinpoint exactly when transitions occurred or the frequency with which different size magazines were employed. It might be that the 20 round magazine stuck around longer than we originally thought :hmmm:

For sure, by June '44 they had to be so rare (if used at all), that British reports don't mention them at all; I am way more convinced that we should downsize C/38 magazines, at least for single and twin mounts. What do you think?

I have faith...TDW can do anything :03:

Yes I trust in him too. But we must also consider that he is involved in many other SH5 projects, and that he had not much time for modding lately. Let's hope that he will read this post, at least :D

Very interesting video, and another good example of historical tracer appearance.

:yep:

by the way, I am still working on flares appearance. Many cool effects can be achieved by messing with SH particle generators, though discerning the effect of each of the many parameters of their controllers can be an hassle and on a side note, I have given the 20mm flak C/30 a new sound hoe you will like it :)

That is probably true, although there were many reporters aboard U-boats, such as Lothar-Günther Buchheim in U-96. I don't think he took any videos, but there are hundreds of excellent pictures from the famous "Das Boot patrol." Of course, these guys were not really journalists—they were basically on board the U-boat for propaganda purposes, but that did not stop Buchheim from expressing some strong anti-war views. But at least the pictures or videos they took are footage of the "real" war, not contrived images from training boats in the Baltic made to look like they are on patrol.

Ah okay, I see what you mean now. Answering your question might be possible, but we should first indentify the nationality of the ships getting shelled/torpedoed :hmm2:

gap

03-26-13, 01:45 PM

Game already has this. You just need to assign a different gun to the date in the unit's .cfg file. That gun would have the shells wanted/needed. Obviously you would have to clone the gun in the GR2 file for this to work. The GR2 Editor/Viewer is not at that point yet.

mmm... this is a workaround, but the need to "buy" another gun upgrade would "unveil" the trick. In my opinion, being automatically given different ordnance after a certain date would be much more immersing ...

hmm... It partially is. Especially if animation/object itself will not change, that can be done, I think. I mean, that is what I'm doing with the IXb right now - that unit is purely cloned from 7B gr2

yes, provided that the existing animations are not messed up by the editor, this is already possible. An example? The 105mm deck gun featured by EUF is a clone of the 88mm gun :yep:

TheDarkWraith

03-26-13, 01:47 PM

mmm... this is a workaround, but the need to "buy" another gun upgrade would "unveil" the trick. In my opinion, being automatically given different ordnance after a certain date would be much more immersing ...

How would you not get the gun? If it's specified in the unit's .eqp file to be used at so-and-so date the game would use it. No intervention by player would be needed :hmmm:

gap

03-26-13, 02:17 PM

How would you not get the gun? If it's specified in the unit's .eqp file to be used at so-and-so date the game would use it. No intervention by player would be needed :hmmm:

:hmmm:
do you mean that armaments listed in the eqp file don't require to be selected as upgrades? IIRC I once tried to modify boat's equipment using that method, but the guns specified in the eqp file didn't show up in single mission...

TheDarkWraith

03-26-13, 02:35 PM

:hmmm:
do you mean that armaments listed in the eqp file don't require to be selected as upgrades? IIRC I once tried to modify boat's equipment using that method, but the guns specified in the eqp file didn't show up in single mission...

IIRC you also have to specify dates for the guns in the UPC and UPCGE files :hmmm:

gap

03-26-13, 03:13 PM

IIRC you also have to specify dates for the guns in the UPC and UPCGE files :hmmm:

I have never fully understood those files. It is about time for me to try and decipher all their settings :doh:

Targor Avelany

03-26-13, 03:20 PM

gap, share the info with me, as I will need it for the IX boats.

gap

03-26-13, 03:27 PM

gap, share the info with me, as I will need it for the IX boats.

Okay, but you only need for it if you want to make the unit playable; if not, an eqp file is all you need :up:

V13dweller

03-31-13, 09:51 AM

gap

04-02-13, 05:33 PM

Hey Gap, I was experimenting with creating clones of ships and I decided that I would make an Emden Light cruiser with guns of same size, but in the 5.9in_SK_C36_turret_GER, but when I saw it in action, their was no muzzle flash or sound, and I am not that skilled with GR2 editors to work this one out myself, could you help?

HI v13, I see the problem, and fixing it is quite easy. As you probably know, lately I have focused mostly on U-boat guns. I thought to work on ship guns at a later stage, but as you are requesting it, tomorrow I will post an update of the "Armaments & equipments patch" addressing the issue pointed by you :up:

volodya61

05-10-13, 07:30 AM

Finally returned to testing our existing project :D.. I'm still trying to remember all the nuances :).. three months have passed..

gap

05-10-13, 11:23 AM

Finally returned to testing our existing project :D.. I'm still trying to remember all the nuances :).. three months have passed..

:up:

volodya61

05-10-13, 01:34 PM

Completely forgot everything :nope:..
Forgot to change ammo amount to 0 for other guns when testing any gun :shifty:..
Just lost time in vain :)..

volodya61

05-10-13, 03:14 PM

Gap, remind me please what is Vierling patch?
Also, maybe it's time to ask TDW what's wrong with the M42 Twin GR2-model.. I can't get it work with human player too.. AI gunners are able to use only.. :hmmm:

gap

05-11-13, 09:35 AM

Gap, remind me please what is Vierling patch?

It is the patch making Flakvierling to switch from four-guns fire to two-guns fire :03:

Also, maybe it's time to ask TDW what's wrong with the M42 Twin GR2-model.. I can't get it work with human player too.. AI gunners are able to use only.. :hmmm:

yes, AI handles the gun normally, but as soon as I move my avatr towards the gun, everything but game clock gets stuck. I suspect it has to do with some camera setting or with gun tooltip.

Unfortunately, every time I asked TDW on it, he cordially ignored my questions... :D

volodya61

05-11-13, 10:10 AM

It is the patch making Flakvierling to switch from four-guns fire to two-guns fire :03:

Ah.. now I remember..

yes, AI handles the gun normally, but as soon as I move my avatr towards the gun, everything but game clock gets stuck. I suspect it has to do with some camera setting or with gun tooltip.

There is one trick :).. teleport.. but after that I can't even rise to the bridge :D..

Unfortunately, every time I asked TDW on it, he cordially ignored my questions... :D

:03: it happens with our requests to him..

volodya61

05-11-13, 10:36 AM

Forgot to say.. change animation time (start, end indexes) was a bad idea :O:..
If not change your elevation values back then I will have to re-configure all indexes :03:..

gap

05-11-13, 11:04 AM

There is one trick :).. teleport.. but after that I can't even rise to the bridge :D..

:-? :wah:

:03: it happens with our requests to him..

:haha:

sometimes we are like little kids in a pastry shop :O:

Forgot to say.. change animation time (start, end indexes) was a bad idea :O:..
If not change your elevation values back then I will have to re-configure all indexes :03:..

These are the least changes I have done, you can retrieve your current settings if you want. Anyway the settings I have applied are not casual: every time I changed elevation values I recalculated animation time settings accordingly. I have tested my new settings with a couple of guns, and aiming accuracy was still okay, so my method should be correcr, but I could have done some mistakes in other cases. Let me know which guns are eventually "misaligned" and I will recheck them :up:

volodya61

05-11-13, 12:13 PM

:haha:

sometimes we are like little kids in a pastry shop :O:

Yep.. we are :har:

I have tested my new settings with a couple of guns, and aiming accuracy was still okay, so my method should be correcr, but I could have done some mistakes in other cases. Let me know which guns are eventually "misaligned" and I will recheck them :up:

Which guns :hmmm:? even C30 need 250-300 shots to down the plane.. in calm sea..

gap

05-11-13, 12:48 PM

Which guns :hmmm:? even C30 need 250-300 shots to down the plane.. in calm sea..

Weird, the single C30 was aiming correctly during my tests. Tried several times :yep:

Are you testing with our test mission? If so, try playing it again. Sometimes gun gun perfomances get worse than usual, no matter how good are teir settings, for several abort/reload mission cycles. Dunno why it happens :hmmm:

volodya61

05-11-13, 01:12 PM

Are you testing with our test mission? If so, try playing it again. Sometimes gun gun perfomances get worse than usual, no matter how good are teir settings, for several abort/reload mission cycles. Dunno why it happens :hmmm:

No, I tested it using Trevally's test campaign (thanks).. never mind, I now know how it works :D and I'll set it all over again if needed :up:

gap

05-11-13, 01:27 PM

No, I tested it using Trevally's test campaign (thanks).. never mind, I now know how it works :D and I'll set it all over again if needed :up:

Okay, but don't waste too much of your time on it. :up:

If you see that some of my elevation/animation settings are wrong, and you just can't fix them in 5 minutes, just retrieve your previous ones.

Why, you may ask? Well, I am almost sure that gun elevation is limited anyway to what is allowed by their animation, so setting their elevation beyond stock min/max ranges (as I did) might make little or no sense, at least until when we won't be able to edit GR2 animations... :hmmm:

volodya61

05-11-13, 02:17 PM

Why, you may ask? Well, I am almost sure that gun elevation is limited anyway to what is allowed by their animation, so setting their elevation beyond stock min/max ranges (as I did) might make little or no sense, at least until when we won't be able to edit GR2 animations... :hmmm:

As I remember, I too have changed some elevation values.. perhaps for C38, don't remember exactly.. I did it because otherwise it was impossible to achieve even the minimum accuracy..

keysersoze

05-12-13, 11:50 AM

gap,

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, you asked me to set renown costs for the reworked flak guns. On account of my laziness and being distracted by other things, I started but never finished that project :oops: Volodya's recent posts reminded me to finish compiling the sources. I'm sorry for the long delay, but here are some preliminary cost suggestions with accompanying citations to explain my rationale:

Flak Guns
C/38
December 1942: 1500 [1]
15 January 1943: 1000
15 February 1943: 750
15 April 1943: 500
15 May 1943: 250
15 June 1943: 100 [2]
15 July 1943: 0

C/38 Zwilling (unshielded)
15 July 1943: 1000 [3]
15 August 1943: 750
15 September 1943: 500
15 October 1943: 100 [4]
30 October 1943: 0

C/38 Zwilling (shielded)
30 October 1943: 500 [5]
15 November 1943: 250
30 November 1943: 0

C/38 Flakvierling
1 May 1943: 3000 [6]
15 June 1943: 2000 [7]
15 July 1943: 1000 [8]
15 August 1943: 500 [9]
15 September 1943: 250
15 October 1943: 100 [10]
15 November 1943: 0

37mm SK C/30U
15 October 1943: 2000 [11]

37mm M42
15 October 1943: 3000 [12]
1 December 1943: 2500 [13]
15 December 1943: 2000
1 January 1944: 1750
15 January 1944: 1500
1 February 1944: 1000
20 February 1944: 500 [14]

37mm M42 Zwilling
1 November 1944: 3000 [15]

Notes on Deck Guns
27 April 1943: removal of all deck guns authorized; Polar and Med. boats can apply to keep gun; some large (IX?) boats retained 10.5 cm gun or exchanged it for another 3.7 cm C/30U [16]

Summer 1944: some VIICs have deck gun refitted for operations in Gulf of Finland [17]

Citations
[1] Fitting begins but encounters technical problems until mid January (Rossler, 188; Stern 108)

[2] no boat allowed into action without at least two 2 cm; 72 boats converted to Turm II/III, 57 under construction, accounting for 60% of U-boatwaffe (BdU KTB 16.6.43)

[3] first forty C/38 Zwillings begin to be installed (Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[4] C/38 installation begins on all boats, so that “practically no boats without twin mountings were putting out for operations as from October 1943” (Rossler, 188; Stern 108; BdU KTB, 1.12.1943)

[5] October 1943: BdU ordered fitting of armored shield to all C/38 Zwillings, which “involved an extensive revision of the mount (Stern, 108)

[6] Flakvierling trials begin (BdU KTB, 16.6.1943)
[7] Turm IV reconversions begin, 50 Flakvierlings available under accelerated delivery program (BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[8] 150 additional Flakvierlings delivered (BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[9] no boat allowed on patrol without Turm IV, even if it meant long delays in port; 150 more Flakvierlings delivered (Rossler, 188; Stern, 108; BdU KTB 1.12.1943)

[10] all boats have Flakvierling installed or are being converted (Stern 108-109)

[11] some Turm IVs converted to 3.7cm C/30U; because of delivery problems with M42, “some U-boats (approximately 20 percent) remained equipped with either the 2cm quadruple or a single 3.7cm quick firing C/30” (Rossler, 193, BdU KTB 20.2.1944)

[12] Four boats have 3.7cm M42 installed; delivery problems encountered (Rossler, 193)

[13] standard installation of M42 begins, with 18 boats equipped by 1 Dec. 1943 (BdU KTB, 1.12.1943; BdU KTB, 20.2.1944)

[14] 80% of boats have M42 installed (BdU KTB, 20.2.1944)

[15] M42 Zwilling introduced on U-870, whose first and only patrol began on 15 Nov. 1944 (Skwiot, 329; uboat.net)

[16] (Rossler, 188; BdU KTB 27.4.1943)

[17] (Rossler, 188)

Additional Notes
I have intentionally not decreased the M42’s cost below 500 renown, to simulate delivery problems and the fact that 20% of the U-boatwaffe was still equipped with the Flakvierling and 3.7cm C/30U in 1944.

I’ve had trouble finding much information for the 3.7 cm C/30U’s availability. Since it was available long before the 3.7 cm M42 (and was installed on Type IXs fairly early), it seems to have been a stopgap measure to cover the dearth of M42s during the Turm IV reconstruction. Do you have any information?

Similarly, I don’t have much about the M42 Zwilling, other than its date of introduction and several references to its being “rare.”

Again, sorry for the long delay in getting this to you.

gap

05-12-13, 01:05 PM

As I remember, I too have changed some elevation values.. perhaps for C38, don't remember exactly.. I did it because otherwise it was impossible to achieve even the minimum accuracy..

I had taken into account your new elevation settings, when adding my tweaks :salute:

gap,

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, you asked me to set renown costs for the reworked flak guns...

Excellent work you have done on those reward cost settings. It will take me a while to look into them with the deserved attenction, but I promise I will do it as soon as possible.

At this moment I have just one remark: I have seen you have deviced costs only
for the fitting of one of each gun model. Nonetheless looking into UpgradePacks.upc, I have noticed that there are also options for fitting a second gun of each type, or two guns of each type at once. How should we apply your suggested costs to these upgrade options? :hmm2:

keysersoze

05-12-13, 02:25 PM

I had taken into account your new elevation settings, when adding my tweaks :salute:

Excellent work you have done on those reward cost settings. It will take me a while to look into them with the deserved attenction, but I promise I will do it as soon as possible.

At this moment I have just one remark: I have seen you have deviced costs only
for the fitting of one of each gun model. Nonetheless looking into UpgradePacks.upc, I have noticed that there are also options for fitting a second gun of each type, or two guns of each type at once. How should we apply your suggested costs to these upgrade options? :hmm2:

Do the options for for fitting multiple guns represent Turm upgrades? A while ago, I looked into the relationship between tower and flak gun upgrades based on our discussion in posts #731 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2029355&postcount=781)and #733 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2029442&postcount=783). As we discussed, the best way to simulate changes in AA armament would be to merge flak guns with the turm upgrades, since, in most cases, the only purpose of a tower upgrade was to increase AA capability.

When upgrading from Turm 0 to Turm II in the campaign, my U-boat was outfitted with two C/30s, instead of the historically accurate two C/38s. I looked through the UpgradePacks code to try to determine whether there is a place where the game defines the default flak loadout for each tower, but I couldn't find one (I have a pretty limited grasp of code, so it's quite possible that I overlooked something obvious).

If we could define the default flak armament of each turm, we could simply ignore individual flak upgrades and instead set the cost of the towers themselves. This might get a little tricky with Turm IV, since there are so many variations, but there's no reason we can't have Turm IVa, IVb, IVc, etc. I have already mapped out the default loadouts and cost progression for combined tower/flak upgrades in case we were able to use this method. I am away from my main computer right now, but I'll check UpgradePacks.upc later tonight and get back to you.

keysersoze

05-13-13, 01:12 AM

have seen you have deviced costs only
for the fitting of one of each gun model. Nonetheless looking into UpgradePacks.upc, I have noticed that there are also options for fitting a second gun of each type, or two guns of each type at once.

I've looked at UpgradePacks.upc and think I understand your point about fitting multiple guns. It seems like the packs are designed to replicate different turm arrangements although some of them, such as the single 20mm Zwilling, are not so historical. Would it be possible to customize the existing upgrade packs to suit historical turm configurations, deleting the ahistorical upgrade packs and keeping those that work for our purposes? One problem is that none of the packs combine different caliber flak guns, such as the 20cm Flakvierling and the 2 x 20cm Zwillings of the early Turm IV. Instead, there are single and double variations of the same gun. Do you think we could combine multiple guns for one upgrade pack?

gap

05-13-13, 05:06 PM

I've looked at UpgradePacks.upc and think I understand your point about fitting multiple guns. It seems like the packs are designed to replicate different turm arrangements although some of them, such as the single 20mm Zwilling, are not so historical. Would it be possible to customize the existing upgrade packs to suit historical turm configurations, deleting the ahistorical upgrade packs and keeping those that work for our purposes?

I think so. I still haven't found the cfg file(s) where turm upgrades are set, but we should be able to edit their availability dates, renown costs, U-boat types which accept them, guns accepted by each turm, etc, just as we do with other upgrades.

I really need to find and look into these settings :hmm2:

One problem is that none of the packs combine different caliber flak guns, such as the 20cm Flakvierling and the 2 x 20cm Zwillings of the early Turm IV. Instead, there are single and double variations of the same gun. Do you think we could combine multiple guns for one upgrade pack?

The game treats light (20mm single and twin) and heavy Flak guns (37mm and Flakvierling) separately. Type VIIA boats have just one "gun linking point" in the aft deck, and it can be equipped with just one light gun. Other U-boat models, with more advanced conning towers, can accept one or two light guns on top of the tower (but I suppose that, if 2 guns are selected, they must be of the same type), and one heavy gun in the Wintergarten. Light and heavy guns can be used in any combination. :yep:

volodya61

05-13-13, 05:58 PM

I think so. I still haven't found the cfg file(s) where turm upgrades are set, but we should be able to edit their availability dates, renown costs, U-boat types which accept them, guns accepted by each turm, etc, just as we do with other upgrades.

.upcge? data/submarine/NSS_Uboat**?

gap

05-13-13, 06:23 PM

.upcge? data/submarine/NSS_Uboat**?

yes, and also data/UPCDataGE/UPCUnitsData/UnitParts*.upc

those files contain a lot of settings. Some of them seem to be related with conning towers, and Flag guns slots. But where are availability/cost settings? IIRC, conning towers are available in campaign, depending on date, and they are subject to a cost as any other upgrade, but I cannot see these settings in game files :-?

Jace11

05-21-13, 06:49 PM

You are quite welcome to use these files. They are made with the older version of the GR2 editor again, sorry. I am wary of using the latest version if, as you said, it doesn't open files I have already changed. I've made quite a few edits in my install and would have to start from scratch with the new editor and I can't remember half of what I've done already.

Some of the eqp entries I modded previously to bring forward some throwers and HHog to be in game before the campaign ends. Historically I think HHog was in general use mid 43, but I have read of it being installed on a few ships in late 42. You can edit the dates etc if you wish, its just the GR2 files that are essential for the new hardpoints. I've attached the new "bones" to the relevant hull parts where necessary.

Flower + 2 extra KGuns 19410102
A Class + 2 KGuns 19400402, "A" turret NULL 19420702, HHog from 19430302
B Class,+ 2 KGuns 19400202, "A" turret NULL 19420602, HHog from 19430202
Tribal,+ 2 KGuns 19410102

HogIsland, All inverted AA guns flipped to be above deck and they seem to have correct field of fire without further edits. + 4" gun at stern with 20 -340 degree traverse - basically copied Liberty stern turret values and its fire restrictions but used a british uncovered deck gun instead???. It is linked to the the HogIsland stern, so should the player blow the stern off it shouldn't float in the air or look weird, it should stay attached. The sim file for this ship is necessary as it contains the turret angles, but it also contains a further mod to remove the ship reflection on water.. sorry.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/23332315/Escorts+and+Hog.zip

P.S Ill get back to aircraft at some point but Im away next week :(, I did find the float plane still switches skins even when it is the only plane present. So while your new method can replicate this extra skin thing, it still means the skins will flip at a certain LOD for the secondary skin (e.g British), If only 1 plane is presnet and it uses the primary skin no LOD switching is seen. If 2 planes are present (1 of each nation) both planes LOD switch skins :(. Much like ships do with external cam... I thought this was hardcoded, but I saw lots of LOD values in the ship GR2s, I wonder if these control switching things in and out of view..

Are there any other ships that have very broken guns etc? I use the Ditmarchen as a Dale class tanker (a ship mod from OHII) I think that could use a couple of guns as its pretty defenseless from what I remember.

gap

05-21-13, 07:46 PM

You are quite welcome to use these files.

Thanks sir, tomorrow I will have a deep look into you files :salute:

They are made with the older version of the GR2 editor again, sorry. I am wary of using the latest version if, as you said, it doesn't open files I have already changed.

If you limited yourself to add/flip bones, there are high hopes that your files are not corrupted.

I've made quite a few edits in my install and would have to start from scratch with the new editor and I can't remember half of what I've done already.

The good news is that some of the older versions of the editor opens the GR2 files (planes) modified by you, so you can get again an idea of your changes, and redo them with the latest version of TDW's util :up:

Some of the eqp entries I modded previously to bring forward some throwers and HHog to be in game before the campaign ends. Historically I think HHog was in general use mid 43, but I have read of it being installed on a few ships in late 42. You can edit the dates etc if you wish, its just the GR2 files that are essential for the new hardpoints. I've attached the new "bones" to the relevant hull parts where necessary.

Flower + 2 extra KGuns 19410102
A Class + 2 KGuns 19400402, "A" turret NULL 19420702, HHog from 19430302
B Class,+ 2 KGuns 19400202, "A" turret NULL 19420602, HHog from 19430202
Tribal,+ 2 KGuns 19410102

For some warships, it is relatively easy to get information on the evolution of their armaments. Little by little, I am building a little library of web sites and e-books covering this topic. I will check the units listed by you, and I will let you know if I find anything.

HogIsland, All inverted AA guns flipped to be above deck and they seem to have correct field of fire without further edits. + 4" gun at stern with 20 -340 degree traverse - basically copied Liberty stern turret values and its fire restrictions but used a british uncovered deck gun instead???. It is linked to the the HogIsland stern, so should the player blow the stern off it shouldn't float in the air or look weird, it should stay attached.

Are there any other ships that have very broken guns etc? I use the Ditmarchen as a Dale class tanker (a ship mod from OHII) I think that could use a couple of guns as its pretty defenseless from what I remember.

Yes, there are many of these gross mistakes. Several of them don't take long to be fixed. Flipping bones, adding new ones, tweaking turret controllers, etc. are easily done, but the other day I had to change the parent of some of Rocket's gun linking bones (the guns were floating in the air when her hull broke apart), and I had to edit manually the parent id of several controllers, because all the id's connected with the relocated bones (including their old and new parent bones) had changed :-?

The sim file for this ship is necessary as it contains the turret angles, but it also contains a further mod to remove the ship reflection on water.. sorry.

Okay, no problem, if needed retrieving those reflections shouldn't be a bif deal anyway.

P.S Ill get back to aircraft at some point but Im away next week :(, I did find the float plane still switches skins even when it is the only plane present. So while your new method can replicate this extra skin thing, it still means the skins will flip at a certain LOD for the secondary skin (e.g British), If only 1 plane is presnet and it uses the primary skin no LOD switching is seen. If 2 planes are present (1 of each nation) both planes LOD switch skins :(. Much like ships do with external cam... I thought this was hardcoded, but I saw lots of LOD values in the ship GR2s, I wonder if these control switching things in and out of view..

Lod models use the same rules as main unit models. If you want them to use the correct skin (as assigned in cfg file) you should edit their main material as per my instructions otherways, they will alway use the first texture :yep:

volodya61

05-22-13, 06:47 AM

Here is All the torpedoes modified for torpedoe's failure patches (GenericPatcher add-on) - already included in the Generic Patcher (MODS folder) (since v1.0.100.0)

The fixes contained in this package were especially designed for working together with TDW's torpedo failure patches, and for bringing in game balanced torpedo failure probabilities. For better results, it is recommended to use either of the versions listed below and to enable ALL of the failure patches by TDW.

List of the versions:

- Stock torpedoes: regular version. Enable it anywhere in your mod list using JSGME.

- Stock torpedoes - MagDet range 3m: as above, but magnetic detonator's range of activation increased from 2 (stock setting) to 3 m.

- FX Update torpedoes: FX Update compatible. Enable it after the said mod.

- FX Update torpedoes - MagDet range 3m: as above, but magnetic detonator's range of activation increased to 3 m.

gap

05-22-13, 07:02 AM

Thank you Volodya, link added to the first page :salute:

volodya61

05-22-13, 07:03 AM

My new (old) thoughts about Reworked U-boat Guns -

I decided to revert to the old values for elevation animation because new fine tuning of animation start/end indexes will take too much time..
I'll test all guns again to see how they works in rough sea.. and then we could release sub guns mod as a part of future Historic Guns mod..
I think, M42 Twin we could to include later, as soon as its issue will be solved..
As for the folder UPCDataGe, we can make two versions -
stock - included only gun's .sim files
EUF compatible - included all the files of UPCDataGe

e.g. I'm using my own edition of EUF and I need only .sim files, the files of UPCDataGe I will to edit anyway..

gap

05-22-13, 07:05 AM

My new (old) thoughts about Reworked U-boat Guns -

I decided to revert to the old values for elevation animation because new fine tuning of animation start/end indexes will take too much time..

I'll test all guns again to see how they works in rough sea.. and then we could release sub guns mod as a part of future Historic Guns mod..
I think, M42 Twin we could to include later, as soon as its issue will be solved..
As for the folder UPCDataGe, we can make two versions -
stock - included only gun's .sim files
EUF compatible - included all the files of UPCDataGe

e.g. I'm using my own edition of EUF and I need only .sim files, the files of UPCDataGe I will to edit anyway..

subscribed :up:

volodya61

05-22-13, 07:09 AM

subscribed :up:

Good :)

I think it will not take much time.. a week or less :up:

gap

05-22-13, 07:48 AM

Good :)

I think it will not take much time.. a week or less :up:

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version? :hmm2:

volodya61

05-22-13, 08:27 AM

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version? :hmm2:

Not sure I got you right.. what do you mean? :06:
On the other hand two versions not needed, just inform that to use without EUF requires to remove folder UPCDataGE..

EDIT: on the third hand (:D) everyone use EUF now.. those like me who use edited EUF version will be able to edit files by themselves.. at least I think so :know:

volodya61

05-24-13, 12:42 PM

It is the patch making Flakvierling to switch from four-guns fire to two-guns fire :03:

Gabriele :salute:

I'm sorry :oops:
four-guns fire and two-guns fire :hmm2:, is this mean - at the same time?
two-guns fire: at first the first pair, then the second pair, while the first one recharges, correct?

PS: if so, I think we should keep in the mod two-guns fire only..

gap

05-25-13, 05:45 AM

After a second thought, what about merging my and your changes to EUF files, and releasing our guns in one version? :hmm2:

Not sure I got you right.. what do you mean? :06:

I meant that if you have improved EUF general settings, we could base the new gun settings on your version of UpgradePacks.upc, rather than on the one from EUF :yep:

Gabriele :salute:

I'm sorry :oops:
four-guns fire and two-guns fire :hmm2:, is this mean - at the same time?
two-guns fire: at first the first pair, then the second pair, while the first one recharges, correct?

PS: if so, I think we should keep in the mod two-guns fire only..

It should work like this:

four-guns fire: this was the firing mode used in emergency cases, because it allowed to dispatch an heavy gunfire load in a short time; in game: the four muzzles will fire in short sequence (i.e: top right, then bottom left, then bottom right, then top left and again top right, etc.). Gun reloading times will be a bit longer, because the two couples of guns will need to be reloaded at the same time.

two-guns fire: this was the firing mode used most commonly, because it allowed for a more accurate fire control and for a more continuous gunfire flux; in game: only a pair of muzzles will fire (either top right/bottom left or top left/bottom right, I don't remember exactly now). In reality, the firing couple of guns alternated, but there is no way to simulate it in game. Gun reloading times will be a bit shorter, because one pair of guns would have been reloaded while the other pair was still firing.

That's all :salute:

volodya61

05-25-13, 12:12 PM

I meant that if you have improved EUF general settings, we could base the new gun settings on your version of UpgradePacks.upc, rather than on the one from EUF :yep:

I just removed many excess things (in my point of view).. like camos etc..

It should work like this:

I see :yep:

I'll report soon.. after tests..

Choum

05-25-13, 02:37 PM

quick update of the patch to v 0.2:

http://www.mediafire.com/?6tpc3e3gkbx9txj

What is new:

corrected the rate of fire of the British 5.25" (13.4 cm) Mark I (twin turret) gun from 40 to 7 rpm per muzzle; gun used on King George V class battleships and Dido class light cruisers.

Previous version:

v 0.1:

fixed a wrong setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the US 5" (12.7 cm) Mk. 12 gun (single mount Mk. 30), used on Fletcher class destroyers;

fixed a wrong setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the US 5" (12.7 cm) Mk. 12 gun (twin mount Mk. 28), used on North Carolina class battleships;

fixed a wrong setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the US 5" (12.7 cm) Mk. 12 gun (twin mount Mk. 22), used on Somers class destroyers;

fixed a wrong setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the Italian 152 mm (6") Model 1926/1929 gun (twin turret), used on Giussano (Bartolomeo Colleoni) and Montecuccoli classes light cruisers;

fixed a wrong setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the British 5.25" (13.4 cm) Mk. I gun (twin mount), used on King George V class battleships (including Duke of York), and Dido class light cruisers;

fixed a missing setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the British 6" (15.2 cm) BL Mk. XXII gun (twin mount), used on Nelson class battleships.

v 0:

added 3 new shell definitions for 11" AP, HE and AA ammunition, with intermediate damage, damage radius, and armour piercing settings between 8" and 14" shells of the same type;

fixed a wrong ammunition setting that prevented from firing the German 28 cm (11") SK C/34 gun (three-gun turret), used on Scharnhorst and Deutschland classes pocket battleships; the gun is now firing the newly introduced 11" AP and HE shells;

14" AP and HE shells replaced with more correct 11" ammunition of the same type for the German 28 cm (11") SK L/40 gun (double-gun turret), used on Deutschland class battleships;

fixed a missing setting that prevented muzzle flash effects for the German 10.5 cm (4.1") SK C/33 gun (twin mount), used on Bismark class battleships, Scharnhost and Deutschland classes pocket battleships, and Admiral Hipper class heavy cruisers.

This mod can be enable after IRAI (file overwrite) ?

Mikemike47

05-25-13, 05:23 PM

Bathrone

05-25-13, 07:33 PM

Hi volodya61

What happens if I use say "FX Update torpedoes - MagDet range 3m (modified for torpedoes failure patches)" if I dont enable the torpedo faillure patches in TDWs generic patcher?

TheDarkWraith

05-25-13, 07:54 PM

Hi volodya61

What happens if I use say "FX Update torpedoes - MagDet range 3m (modified for torpedoes failure patches)" if I dont enable the torpedo faillure patches in TDWs generic patcher?

Your torpedo malfunctions won't work correctly :yep:

gap

05-26-13, 06:20 AM

This mod can be enable after IRAI (file overwrite) ?

Sure, you can enable gap - armaments & equipments patch v 0.2 after IRAI BUT you will cancel out some of the fixes/corrections.

I installed gap - armaments & equipments patch v 0.2 BEFORE IRAI because the IRAI file dates are newer.

Generally, for all mods, I install from oldest to newest especially with overwrites.

The changes of this mod are based over IRAI's version of guns_radars_01.sim.

As far as I can see, every time TDW releases an update of his mods file their file dates are also updated, no matter if their settings have changed or not. Looking at the release notes of the latest IRAI version, I can exclude that they affect the aforementioned sim file. In other words, overwriting it with this mod is safe :up:

volodya61

05-27-13, 12:48 PM

Gabriele, I need your help.. I tired a little, we can't check all what we want in a custom missions.. so I need a couple of weather fixes for DynEnv for the Trevally's test campaign.. I need wind speed near the Kiel 5-6 m/s and 9-10 m/s.. always.. month - March..

gap

05-27-13, 12:55 PM

volodya61

05-27-13, 01:04 PM

I will see what can be done, but I can't promise anything... this SH5 weather engine is maddening me :doh:

I thought that's possible to set strict/rigid limits :hmmm:

gap

05-27-13, 01:44 PM

I thought that's possible to set strict/rigid limits :hmmm:

I will send you a DynEnv patch in a few :salute:

gap

05-27-13, 04:42 PM

I will send you a DynEnv patch in a few :salute:

Here it is. Sorry for the delay :oops:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wz1titjvuse8cj4

This is also a good occasion for testing once and for all wether wind speed settings are applied as expected or not :up:

volodya61

05-27-13, 05:02 PM

Here it is. Sorry for the delay :oops:

Thank you :salute:
No need sorry :)

This is also a good occasion for testing once and for all wether wind speed settings are applied as expected or not :up:

OK, we will see.. soon :up:

volodya61

05-27-13, 06:59 PM

OK, we will see.. soon :up:

Unfortunately, it's not working.. at least in this case.. I think, too close to the ports (there is not only Kiel).. :-?
I'm afraid we should ask Trevally to move mission area further to the open sea.. perhaps to the Baltic Operations area (old), near the Scaggerak-Kattegat :hmmm: :06:.. I've often saw the wind speed 10-15 there.. maybe it will work in that area :06:

Trevally, could you help us.. again? :)

V13dweller

05-27-13, 08:20 PM

I'd like to submit what could be a bug, when the Admiral Graf Spee's main guns fire, it appears to only fire two round and not three.

I hope this thread is still dealing with these kinds of gun specs.

gap

05-28-13, 03:36 AM

I'd like to submit what could be a bug, when the Admiral Graf Spee's main guns fire, it appears to only fire two round and not three.

This is happening because the gun got only 2 muzzle entries set in guns_radars_01.sim. Fixing it is a no-brainer.

I hope this thread is still dealing with these kinds of gun specs.

yes, it is indeed, even though lately we have focused on U-boat armaments and other stuff unrelated with this mod. If you send me a reminder of all the gun bugs that you know of which are still waiting for a fix, I will post an update of the 'Armaments & equipments patch' fixing them :up:

gap

05-28-13, 06:04 AM

Unfortunately, it's not working.. at least in this case.. I think, too close to the ports (there is not only Kiel).. :-?

This is exactly what I was talking about :-?

volodya61

05-28-13, 06:33 AM

This is exactly what I was talking about :-?

I hope Trevally will help us :03:

gap

05-28-13, 06:43 AM

I hope Trevally will help us :03:

If you need for foggy weather go patrolling off Scapa :haha:

volodya61

05-28-13, 01:05 PM

..I'll retest it to make sure.. anyway my tests of NewUIs 7.5.0 were stopped..

Nope.. in this case it doesn't work too.. will wait Trevally's new missions :yeah:

volodya61

05-30-13, 02:35 PM

Trevally moved the mission area a little further than expected :D
Should work your weather fixes in this area? What do you think?

http://s19.postimg.org/qdohghjb3/mission_marker.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/qdohghjb3/)

volodya61

06-07-13, 02:26 PM

Well, it was long way :).. more than four months.. and finally I finished..
Next tests on the next stage - user's tests in campaign mode :)..

Also made a few dozens tests with the DC's settings.. no luck so far.. if DCs are safe for DDs then they are safe for the player's sub too.. if dangerous - the same.. still can't catch the golden mean :hmmm:.. any thoughts?

volodya61

06-07-13, 03:09 PM

Forgot to say in PM, I changed only Elevation speed and animation for AA-guns + Traverse speed for deck-guns..

and this :D -

gap has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

gap

06-07-13, 04:14 PM

Forgot to say in PM, I changed only Elevation speed and animation for AA-guns + Traverse speed for deck-guns..

and this :D -

Well done Volodya. :up:

Starting from tomorrow I will have a look at your finetunes and I will update accordingly the specs displayed in the gun selection interface. Moreover, I need to retrieve my work on gun effects, ammo, ammo selection hud, etc. It has been so long that I don't even remember how far from completion were these features when I left working on them :doh:

volodya61

06-07-13, 04:35 PM

Well done Volodya. :up:

:salute:

Starting from tomorrow I will have a look at your finetunes and I will update accordingly the specs displayed in the gun selection interface. Moreover, I need to retrieve my work on gun effects, ammo, ammo selection hud, etc. It has been so long that I don't even remember how far from completion were these features when I left working on them :doh:

In my opinion, everything fine with ammo and ammo selection in the game..
Not sure I got you right with the gun selection interface and gun effects.. do you mean selection in the bunker?

gap

06-07-13, 05:08 PM

In my opinion, everything fine with ammo and ammo selection in the game..
Not sure I got you right with the gun selection interface and gun effects.. do you mean selection in the bunker?

German 20/37/88/105 mm ammo and ammo selection interface:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2030609&postcount=788
Not only we can make the game to display miniatures of the German ammunition used during WWII, and to show their designation in tooltips, we can also set new ammunition types, and customize them. At this moment we can just give the new shell definitions generic settings, and finetune them on a later stage :yep:

Gun/shell effects.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2030684&postcount=790
I have already started working on better tracers, and I was thinking to increase a bit muzzle flash smoke :up:

as for "gun selection interface", I meant gun specs and notes readable in U-boat upgrades interface, in bunker.

P.S: any news on Keysersoze? It as been a while since his last post on the forum, and this thread looks empty without his precious historical annotations :)

volodya61

06-07-13, 06:27 PM

German 20/37/88/105 mm ammo and ammo selection interface:
Not only we can make the game to display miniatures of the German ammunition used during WWII, and to show their designation in tooltips, we can also set new ammunition types, and customize them. At this moment we can just give the new shell definitions generic settings, and finetune them on a later stage :yep:

Gun/shell effects.
I have already started working on better tracers, and I was thinking to increase a bit muzzle flash smoke :up:
as for "gun selection interface", I meant gun specs and notes readable in U-boat upgrades interface, in bunker.

Okay, I see now.. as always you can't stop :haha:..
You think that the work what was done so far is not enough.. you decided to make a comprehensive mod :D

P.S: any news on Keysersoze? It as been a while since his last post on the forum, and this thread looks empty without his precious historical annotations :)

Nope..

gap

06-07-13, 06:43 PM

Okay, I see now.. as always you can't stop :haha:..
You think that the work what was done so far is not enough..

It is never enough: currently we are only using a bare 10% of the full potential of this game. But we can alway release a first version of the "reworked U-boat Guns" mod containing just the core (sim) files without all the goodies :up:

you decided to make a comprehensive mod :D

Indeed this is the idea since post #1: a total SH5 overhaull bringing (the real) WWII in game. But this ambitious objective requires a first rate team. We are just two members of it...

WHERE ARE RONGEL AND KEYSERSOZE?! :stare: :D

volodya61

06-08-13, 06:14 AM

It is never enough: currently we are only using a bare 10% of the full potential of this game. But we can alway release a first version of the "reworked U-boat Guns" mod containing just the core (sim) files without all the goodies :up:
Indeed this is the idea since post #1: a total SH5 overhaull bringing (the real) WWII in game. But this ambitious objective requires a first rate team. We are just two members of it...

WHERE ARE RONGEL AND KEYSERSOZE?! :stare: :D

I know that.. but strategic concept should be structured somewhat differently, in my opinion.. we need the kernel on the basis of which will be built part of the mega-mod, armaments+equipment part..
Look at the NewUIs and recall its first versions.. look at the FX Update and recall its first versions..
As soon as we create the kernel/base, we will be able to move further.. next step is a full rework and revision of EUF+REM and merging it into our work.. next step is full rework and revision of UHS and merging it into our work.. also new Rongel's torpedoes settings should be merged into it etc. etc.
So in the end we will have a large mod includes all the possible settings of armaments and equipment compatible with other large parts of the mega-mod - NewUIs, OHII, IRAI, FX etc..

gap

06-08-13, 07:28 AM

I know that.. but strategic concept should be structured somewhat differently, in my opinion.. we need the kernel on the basis of which will be built part of the mega-mod, armaments+equipment part..
Look at the NewUIs and recall its first versions.. look at the FX Update and recall its first versions..
As soon as we create the kernel/base, we will be able to move further.. next step is a full rework and revision of EUF+REM and merging it into our work.. next step is full rework and revision of UHS and merging it into our work.. also new Rongel's torpedoes settings should be merged into it etc. etc.
So in the end we will have a large mod includes all the possible settings of armaments and equipment compatible with other large parts of the mega-mod - NewUIs, OHII, IRAI, FX etc..

This is exactly my idea :yep:

volodya61

06-08-13, 08:20 AM

This is exactly my idea :yep:

Sooo...? :D

gap

06-08-13, 08:35 AM

Sooo...? :D

I will just make sure that gun specs detailed in U-boat upgrade interface are matching the new settings. It won't take long, as I have kept them costantly updated while I and keysersoze were working on them; I only need to review your changes and make sure that UPCLocalization.tsr reflects them. I hope you didn't have to alter too much previous settings :)

volodya61

06-08-13, 10:27 AM

...I hope you didn't have to alter too much previous settings :)

I didn't touch any settings described in the UPCLocalization.tsr :)

gap

06-08-13, 10:57 AM

I didn't touch any settings described in the UPCLocalization.tsr :)

UPCLocalization.tsr doesn't contain any setting. It is the file used for storing upgrade descriptive texts. :03:

volodya61

06-08-13, 11:20 AM

UPCLocalization.tsr doesn't contain any setting. It is the file used for storing upgrade descriptive texts. :03:

Language barrier? :)
Again? :nope:

I didn't mean settings in the UPCLocalization.tsr.. I know this file.. this is one of the files that I work with for translation/localization :D
I mean, I didn't touch any settings in the .sim files which are described or mentioned in the .tsr.. :03:

gap

06-08-13, 11:23 AM

Language barrier? :)
Again? :nope:

I didn't mean settings in the UPCLocalization.tsr.. I know this file.. this is one of the files that I work with for translation/localization :D
I mean, I didn't touch any settings in the .sim files which are described or mentioned in the .tsr.. :03:

I have added a few lines to the tsr files, which include all you need to know before fitting a gun aboard :03:

volodya61

06-08-13, 11:34 AM

I have added a few lines to the tsr files, which include all you need to know before fitting a gun aboard :03:

I know that :yep:

gap

06-08-13, 11:45 AM

I know that :yep:

So, what don't you understand? I need to match the new lines detailing traverse/elevation rates in the tsr file, with your updated settings in the sim files :know:

volodya61

06-08-13, 11:59 AM

So, what don't you understand? I need to match the new lines detailing traverse/elevation rates in the tsr file, with your updated settings in the sim files :know:

As always I've looked at the files inattentively.. I haven't seen traverse/elevation rates there :oops:

gap

06-08-13, 01:13 PM

As always I've looked at the files inattentively.. I haven't seen traverse/elevation rates there :oops:

No problem :up:

Rocko

06-10-13, 07:12 AM

Hi Volodya61,

Thanks for providing the torpedo updates. However, I can't find the link for downloading the package. Please advise.

Regards

As always I've looked at the files inattentively.. I haven't seen traverse/elevation rates there :oops:

volodya61

06-10-13, 07:55 AM

Thanks for providing the torpedo updates. However, I can't find the link for downloading the package. Please advise.

Hi

All the needed torpedo's updates you can find in the Patcher's pack.. folder - MODS :up:

volodya61

07-05-13, 11:12 AM

Hi Gabriele :salute:

What about our reworked sub guns? :06:

gap

07-05-13, 01:22 PM

Hi Gabriele :salute:

What about our reworked sub guns? :06:

Sorry Volodya, our guns slipped my mind :oops:

I promise to release it within this week-end :salute:

volodya61

07-23-13, 04:39 AM

http://s19.postimg.org/6d2kql39f/still_waiting.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

:O: :03:

gap

07-23-13, 06:15 AM

http://s19.postimg.org/6d2kql39f/still_waiting.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

:O: :03:

Okay, okay, message received :haha: :D

Let's take stock of my many still open projects:

I am at a deadlock with B-25's usage of its guns (though I still have some tests in mind to possibly see what's going on with it);
I will better wait for Rongel and Trevally before keeping on my work on the new cargo models;
I had promised Trevally to import a proper model of the Polish/French Wicher-Bourrasque class destroyer, but I think she can wait;
new tree/rock/terrain zones for DynEnv can also wait, as it is not such an essential mod;
ditto for my rework of sober's smoke screens mod;
still no news by TDW on the radio damage patch.

Did I forget anything? :hmm2:
Okay time to finalize and release our U-boat guns mod at last :up:

volodya61

07-23-13, 06:29 AM

Let's take stock of my many still open projects:

I am at a deadlock with B-25's usage of its guns (though I still have some tests in mind to possibly see what's going on with it);
I will better wait for Rongel and Trevally before keeping on my work on the new cargo models;
I had promised Trevally to import a proper model of the Polish/French Wicher-Bourrasque class destroyer, but I think she can wait;
new tree/rock/terrain zones for DynEnv can also wait, as it is not such an essential mod;
ditto for my rework of sober's smoke screens mod;
still no news by TDW on the radio damage patch.

Did I forget anything? :hmm2:
Okay time to finalize and release our U-boat guns mod at last :up:

If you don't mind I want to join to these projects to the best of my ability.. and we were talking with you long ago about the ships reflection rework, if you remember..

PS: when.. if.. I get new memory sticks I will ready to start.. and of course work on my mod-pack or mod-soup.. or mod-soap :)

gap

07-23-13, 06:41 AM

If you don't mind I want to join to these projects to the best of my ability..

If you can join? Had you just to ask about it? Of course you are very welcome to any of my projects. Better said, I rely on you for all of them :up: :D

and we were talking with you long ago about the ships reflection rework, if you remember..

Yes, this is also an important aspect. We will make those reflections lesser intrusive :up:

PS: when.. if.. I get new memory sticks I will ready to start.. and of course work on my mod-pack or mod-soup.. or mod-soap :)

On a side note, I have almost finished my work on the art of you mod-champoo. It only needs the final touches :up:

Mikemike47

07-23-13, 11:30 AM

Okay, okay, message received :haha: :D
Let's take stock of my many still open projects: 1,2,3,4,5,6.............??
Okay time to finalize and release our U-boat guns mod at last :up:

Go gap, go. :rock: We appreciate your hard work and dedication.
Thanks to the both of you, gap and volodya61.

Sjizzle

07-23-13, 11:43 AM

@ gap and volodya when is ready this mod ? :har:

volodya61

07-23-13, 12:13 PM

@ gap and volodya when is ready this mod ? :har:

:rotfl2:

If I remember correctly it was almost ready in late February/early March.. it needed a little testing at that time.. but sometimes we are too lazy :D.. I believe it will be released this Summer.. I'm sure :yep:.. :har:

EDIT: but while this mod was lying on the shelf, we have done a lot of work.. I think that "New torpedo explosion" was a big step in understanding how the effects work in this game :yep:

gap

07-23-13, 01:11 PM

@ gap and volodya when is ready this mod ? :har:

Ready, probably never; released, anytime soon :03:

EDIT: but while this mod was lying on the shelf, we have done a lot of work.. I think that "New torpedo explosion" was a big step in understanding how the effects work in this game :yep:

:sunny:

Fifi

07-23-13, 03:03 PM

Did I forget anything? :hmm2:

:hmm2: Maybe the electric engine new values? :D

volodya61

07-23-13, 03:26 PM

:hmm2: Maybe the electric engine new values? :D

I think existing values are enough good for the moment.. searching for new, more accurate values is nit-picking.. in Russian it sounds "fleas catching".. I think this can wait.. there are more interesting and useful projects to work on.. :03:

Fifi

07-23-13, 03:47 PM

Ok...no prob...just thought Gap had forget :03:

volodya61

07-23-13, 03:56 PM

Ok...no prob...just thought Gap had forget :03:

I'm not Gap as you can see :O:.. I just said my opinion/point of view on this issue :smug:

gap

07-23-13, 04:38 PM

Thank you for the reminder Fifi, :)

unfortunately at the moment we don't know how the game combines ratio, max rpm and max speed settings to generate rpm / speed outputs. The biggest problem is that engine outputs are not linear in game, whereas they were in rality. Only TDW can understand what is going on in game and possibly fix the problem.

Another poblem is that astern bells tend to be consitently faster than espected. Following your suggestion we can investigate wether gun and conning tower's additional drag coefficients have an effect on forward/backward speeds.

At least, by now we know that game takes drag into account, and this is good news. :up:

P.S: today I was affected by a fastidious backache, and I couldn't stay too long in front of my computer (I am getting old :dead:), but I hope to resume working on our guns starting from tomorrow :salute:

volodya61

07-23-13, 04:57 PM

P.S: today I was affected by a fastidious backache, and I couldn't stay too long in front of my computer (I am getting old :dead:), but I hope to resume working on our guns starting from tomorrow :salute:

None of us are getting younger :-?.. unfortunately..
Take your time mate :salute:

gap

07-23-13, 05:21 PM

None of us are getting younger :-?.. unfortunately..
Take your time mate :salute:

:Kaleun_Sick: :Kaleun_Crying:

Rocko

08-19-13, 11:44 AM

gap

08-19-13, 11:59 AM

Please advise on the following matter. I'm using Sober's mega mod and each time I fire torpedoes I-V, I need to resurface to reload. Even if 'Auto Loading' is selected. How can torpedoes be reloaded without the need of resurfacing. I'm on the 'Turning Point' campaign.... type VIIC-41 I think....

Thanks for your insight!

Torpedo reserves are limited. When internal torpedo reserves are used up, your crew will load torpedoes from external reserves; this means that the U-boat must be surfaced long enough for the unloading procedure to be accomplished, and that during it weather must be good. IIRC, you can disable "realistic torpedo loading" with from main menue's realism settings.

Rocko

08-21-13, 10:13 AM

Hi gap,

Thanks for your feedback. Just want to clarify that in the previous post I was referring to resurfacing for reloading a second set of 4 torpedoes from the bow of the boat even after selecting the 'Autoloading' option in the Weapons page. What is the purpose of this option then?

Please advise.

Please advise on the following matter. I'm using Sober's mega mod and each time I fire torpedoes I-V, I need to resurface to reload. Even if 'Auto Loading' is selected. How can torpedoes be reloaded without the need of resurfacing. I'm on the 'Turning Point' campaign.... type VIIC-41 I think....

Thanks for your insight!

Torpedo reserves are limited. When internal torpedo reserves are used up, your crew will load torpedoes from external reserves; this means that the U-boat must be surfaced long enough for the unloading procedure to be accomplished, and that during it weather must be good. IIRC, you can disable "realistic torpedo loading" with from main menue's realism settings.

vdr1981

08-21-13, 10:43 AM

gap

08-21-13, 11:00 AM

Hi gap,

Thanks for your feedback.

My pleasure :)

Just want to clarify that in the previous post I was referring to resurfacing for reloading a second set of 4 torpedoes from the bow of the boat even after selecting the 'Autoloading' option in the Weapons page. What is the purpose of this option then?

Autoloading means that you don't need to drag torpedoes from your reserves to empty tubes for them to be reloaded. If torpedoes are still available, your crew will load automatically any empty tubes at their earliest convenince; still loading will require some time to be accomplished, and if only external torpedoes are available, you need to be surfaced for the reloading to start.

If you want torpedo tubes to be reloaded immediately, no matter if internal reserves are used up and you are submerged, go to main game menu, select 'Game options', go to the 'Gameplay settings' tab, uncheck 'Realistic reload', and click on 'Apply changes':

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa419/sartoris36/sh52011-09-0220-38-56-15.jpg

CaptJulius

08-30-13, 03:17 AM

Looks Good :up:

vdr1981

08-30-13, 12:02 PM

Little bit propaganda for brave tehnicians ... :know: To boost moral and make work easier ...

http://youtu.be/pXZH9DTPSFk

Keep them cooming! :up:

gap

08-31-13, 11:00 AM

Looks Good :up:

thanks, I am currently busy with other small projects, but I think Volodya released a beta version of our work on the AA guns somewhere in another thread :up:

PS: here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2105743&postcount=397)

Little bit propaganda for brave tehnicians ... :know: To boost moral and make work easier ...

http://youtu.be/pXZH9DTPSFk

Keep them cooming! :up:

Wonderful footage, thank you for sharing :yeah:

gap

09-11-13, 11:39 AM

Just found this huge collection of scanned manuals on WWII ordnance and weaponry: :sunny:

http://www.lexpev.nl/manuals/index.html

plj

10-13-13, 05:43 PM

gap

10-13-13, 06:45 PM

I noticed a discussion about the tracer color in the beginning of this mamoth topic, and didnt care to check, but red would deffinately NOT be a good alternative, and I think the color is quite historically correct tbh.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-7020.html

Some discussion on tracer rounds there .. fluorecent lime green ... that would be almost yellow as far as most colormaps go.

I have done quite an extensive research on the topic. Green, yellow, red and white tracers were all used on Kriegmarine's and other WWII navies's ammunition. I can post here some of my sources, if you like it.
The point is: which shade of green, which shade of red, how much transparent, etc? WWII Color footage is pretty rare, and the link you have posted, though possibly giving us some clues, refers to tankers. Any furthter contribution very much appreciated :salute:

vdr1981

12-29-13, 04:28 PM

So Gap, when do we start to entering data from your spreadsheet into gunsradars.sim file? Next year? :)

Your document contains little fortune of data, it would be really shame not to use it . :up:

gap

12-29-13, 05:13 PM

So Gap, when do we start to entering data from your spreadsheet into gunsradars.sim file? Next year? :)

Your document contains little fortune of data, it would be really shame not to use it . :up:

I agree: wasting all the work done so far (not only by me: also Volodya, keysersoze and several other subsim members have given a decisive contribution to this project), would be a shame.

Putting this mod in stand-by was not in vain though. In the meanwhile I have learned a lot about SH5. Most notably, with your help, I have got an insight of the u-boat equipment/upgrade settings and I have a better knowledge of the parameters affecting guns' accuracy and fire rates of fire, not to mention the damage system modelled in game. This experience will be precious for the continuing of this project :up:

There are still some unsolved problems though. As you know, just entering historical specs in game is not enough for getting SH5 gunners to behave as expected. I am especially concerned about practical rates of fire and hit rates. In WWII warfare, the above factors varied heavily depending on a number of other factors, including crew training, fatigue, and sea state. Sure enough, destibilizing SH5 guns is an hard task, as elevation/training rates and gyro stabilization rates are strictly connected, if not identical.

This is to say that the completion of the present mod will require a lot of beta testing and fine-tuning. If you are ready to undertake at least part of this work, I will be side-by-side with you, that is sure :salute:

U-190

04-04-21, 06:34 AM

As announced in another thread, I've started collecting information on historical specs of both AI and human playable guns featured in game. If I manage to do it, this knowledge is going to be included in a mod that will introduce a general rebalance of armaments /ammo / zones and armour system in SH5. So far, this the detailed list of features I plan to implement:

Realistic guns specs:
- train and elevation min and max angles;
- train and elevation speeds;
- train and elevation dispersions;
- cyclic and practical firing rates (i.e. recoil and reload times);
- muzzle velocity;
- gun's max range;
- gun's additional drag coefficients (left/right, up/down and front/rear for guns selectable as U-boat upgrades).

Realistic ammo outfits for each gun:
- round types;
- number of round carried for each type;
- number of rounds held per magazine.

New shell definitions, reflecting different ammo used with different guns of the same caliber, with realistic damage figures:
- detonation range;
- min and max damage effects;
- armour penetration;
- min and max radius.

Reworked FX:
- different sounds for each of the main guns used in game (especially for sub's guns);
- if needed: improved/new GFX effects for guns and shells featured.

Reworked damage zones for ships and guns whose historical armour figures are known:
- new zone definitions with realistic armour settings;
- if needed: reworked/improved damage zones to reflect available historical data and expected sinking dynamics (including both vanilla and recently imported dat units).

New ship definitions, with different and realistic gun equipments for each of the nations that operated them:
- when needed: existing units cloned to reflect subclasses or different riggings/equipments of the same unit (for both GR2 and inported dat units);
- if needed: revised ship's specs to reflect available historical data and expected in game behaviour (for both existing GR2 and dat units and their clones);
- when needed: revised ship's equipment to reflect different armament outfits during the war and for different nations;
- cloned units assigned in roster to the nations that historically used them.

In future, I could decide to make similar changes to torpedo / depth charges / aircraft weapon's systems.

This is the list of mods that, with permission by their respective authors, my project should be based on for maximum compatibility with (and among) them:

Multiple UI's (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1332669&postcount=1) by TheDarkWraith
IRAI (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1436291&postcount=1) by TheDarkWraith
Fx Update (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1485167&postcount=1) by TheDarkWraith
Alternate Sinking Mechanism (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1861943#post1861943) by Bilge_Rat
Ship inertia (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1905432&postcount=1) by TheDarkWraith
AI Damage Control Patch (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1621039&postcount=1) by TheDarkWraith
Equipmen Upgrades Fix (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1636046&postcount=1) by TheBeast
Reworked Morale & Abilities (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1883408#post1883408) by Rongel
SH 5 Longer Repairs Equipment Upgrades Fix-version (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197800&page=2) by Rongel
Additional Merchant Ships (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1481870&postcount=1) by Cerberus62
Historical Ship Equipment (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1504132&postcount=1) by Cerberus62
Open Horizons II (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1791496&postcount=1) by Zedi and Trevally
Mehr Traffic, Nationen und Schiffe (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1652560&postcount=1) by Uekel
Smaller Flags for Warships (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?p=1836528#post1836528) by Uekel

Moreover, selected features and fixes from the following old mods will be possibly included in the present mod (again, granted that permission to do so will be given by their original authors):

Wamphyri's Plane Attack Mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1309433#post1309433) by Wamphyri
Funelsmoke, Planes and Sounds (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1306223#post1306223) by AOTD_MadMax
Rückkehr der Asse (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1297685#post1297685) by AOTD_MadMax
Better and Realistic Flotation (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1316407#post1316407) by Arclight
Natural Sinking Mechanics (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=619183#post619183) (SH IV) by WernerSobe
Tracer Mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=666) (SH IV) by Von M
Gun Sound Muzzle Flash (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?p=1831779#post1831779) (SH IV) by Karle94

If you think that my list is missing any important mod that the present project might conflict with, or that shoud be included in it anyway, please let me know and I will get in touch with its author.

Indeed, I am also open to anyone wanting to co-work with me on this project and to any suggestion or complaint about pertinent aspects of the game that need still to be addressed.

I rely on your inputs, guys :yep:
:)

================================================== ========

EDIT:

this mod is still in its alpha stage. At this moment only few of the aforementioned aspects have been addressed with separate patches that will be merged in the final release of the mod. You can get their latest versions from the following links:

Rongel's Torpedo malfunctions test v 2
download link and realease notes available HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2011321&postcount=472)
NOT COMPATIBLE WITH LATEST TORPEDO FAILURE PATCHES BY TDW

Armaments & equipments patch v 0.2
download link and realease notes available HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1988650&postcount=96)

Thank you for testing! :salute:
WOW :o :up: