Crash dive randomization ...

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

I added a code to the SH3 long patrol script (see here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193794 ) that randomize the crash dive behaviour.

All we feel that Sh3 is sometimes too previsible in it´s behaviour (in truth it don´t have almost nothing randomizible on it to we work on). The air attacks are that boring exactly because you will hit the C key to crash dive all tthe time and it will be almost always the same final attack result...

But no more! As said above, i added a code that made the crash dive suscetible to problems as it must be in real life as it was a emergency manouver that sometimes catch the crew outside the boat, engines in maintenance, open hatchs , etc. This is exactly what this code do.
Below a tease of it:

c::
Suspend, Permit
Send %_TC_1%
Random, rand, 0, 9
if rand <= 2
{
Send %_Crash_dive%
}
if (rand >= 3 and rand <= 8)
{
Soundplay, %A_ScriptDir%\data\Sound\SOUND1_.wav
Sleep, ((4000)*(rand-2)+6000)
Send %_Crash_dive%
Sleep, 30000
Random, prob, 0, 9
If prob > 7
{
Send %_Ahead_third%
Sleep, 10000
Send %_Maintain_depth%
Sleep, 5000
}
SoundBeep, 750, 150
;BlockInput, off
}
if rand = 9
{
Soundplay, %A_ScriptDir%\data\Sound\SOUND1_.wav
Sleep, 10000
Send %_Ahead_third%
Send %_Dive%
Sleep, 70000
Random, prob, 0, 9
If prob > 6
Send %_Hard_to_port%
If prob < 3
Send %_Hard_to_starboard%
Send %_Maintain_depth%
SoundBeep, 750, 150
}
return

This reduces the normal crash dive routine only to a propability of 30% chance. Then a trouble crash dive with dive or engine problems at 60% with variable delay in time to dive and finally at 10% that a crash dive could be not possible at all and just a messy and slow dive routine could be done.

I played the game a bit with it and it´s much more interesting because you never know what really await you over there.

If someone is interested i can update the Sh3 Long patrol script (it´s possible to only runs this crash dive routine from it if you want, etc)

Cheers!

Rubini.

[sublynx]

The randomization of crash diving would be a major boost in the realism of the game. I remember reading once that during a crash dive of Teddy Suhren's U-564 a rag of oily cloth dropped on the engine, got fire and they had to suppress a fire during the escorts approach. I'm not quite sure if I want my game to be that realistic but I would definitely try your mod. It would be good though, if the random effect could be controlled, so that playing would not become too difficult.

[VONHARRIS]

Just to make sure but I don't think this little add-on can be used without the SH3 long patrol script, right?

Thank you.

[Rubini]

Just to make sure but I don't think this little add-on can be used without the SH3 long patrol script, right?

Thank you.

It´s possible to make it alone but not necessary. If you start the game using Sh3 long patrol script the sound for snorkel up and down (absent on sh3 and impossible to mod until now) and the crash dive randomization are available without run it, i mean the main script can stay paused but these features works anyway. This way they are "independent" from each other.

Note that this crash dive feature isn´t on the SH3 LP script version that is available for download. I need to upload a updated version with it.

Yesterday I played the game for 8 hours (it was independence day here in Brazil), was found by torpedos bombers or rockets planes 4 or 5 times. Also some hunt killers groups. This crash dive feature is a must, the game is really much better with it. And not more difficult, but much less bored. It was late 1943 and in one campaign i lose my propellers by a FIDO, tried the Stieblers Surrender mod and was "rescue by a axis vessel" and my carrer could continue. In another one was very bad damaged by rockets and then cacth by 2 allied destroyers. If not the crash dive randomization my carrer should be only stoped by depth charges ... if it was.:up:

These were the very bad damaged encounters, but the crash dive randomization please me with a lot of other tenses moments where I needed to fight for the life of my crew and the integrit of my uboat!

In truth isn´t only it, I also run my game with much more random planes detection adjusting the RWR sensibility (and put on it a probability, absent on the game) and also my visual planes detection (Note: just for planes) is now much less accurate as it was in RL. So no more difficult game, but really a more challenge and enjoyable one. Stiebler´s and Hsie´s weather fix also are important for the above results.

[andqui]

In truth isn´t only it, I also run my game with much more random planes detection adjusting the RWR sensibility (and put on it a probability, absent on the game) and also my visual planes detection (Note: just for planes) is now much less accurate as it was in RL. So no more difficult game, but really a more challenge and enjoyable one. Stiebler´s and Hsie´s weather fix also are important for the above results.

Will the visual sensors randomization, that you mentioned here and a few days ago, be available for others? If so, I'd love to have it.

thanks

[Rubini]

Will the visual sensors randomization, that you mentioned here and a few days ago, be available for others? If so, I'd love to have it.

thanks
Thanks andqui by the interest!

No, yet not released. But is so easy to make it that I will explain how you can get a instant mod that to have different visual sensors for ships ansd for planes in few seconds!:

1. Open your Sensors.dat with S3D (make a backup of it first!)
2. Goes to Visual sensor and changes this entry:

MaxHeight=15000(may vary between mods) to MaxHeight=5

3. Also make sure that on zones.cfg your Observation or Attack periscope is indestrutible (they can take damage but will be not destructed). One of them is enough.

How it works:

The MaxHeight=5 on player main Visual Sensors is enough to you detect any surfaced vessel normally, but you will not more detect planes with it. The planes are now detected by the periscopes visual sensors (it work in paralell with the main Visual sensor). So, the planes visual detection is now much more short. I also added probability to my Visual periscope, no side effects for periscopes but the planes detection is yet more challange. This one needs some more changes on the files, so needs official release. But the above already make your game much better. Try it and see!:up:

[Myxale]

A nifty idea, Rubini!

You never stop being amazing_! :rock:

[Rubini]

A nifty idea, Rubini!

You never stop being amazing_! :rock:
Thanks Myxale,

It´s obviously also possible to add an entirely new Visual sensors just for planes (the player uboats can have infinite Visual sensors). But to do this is also necessary add a new node entry on each uboat .dat, then adds a new entry for it in each uboat .sns, etc. The above explained solution is just the best and simple, and disposable for all in a second!:up:

[messageboy101]

how to add this to your long patrol script
or will it be updated

[Rubini]

how to add this to your long patrol script
or will it be updated


Thanks messageboy for the interest!

I guess that the SH3 Long patrol Script potential were never correctly understood by the community because I never had any feedback, any third part idea, (positive or negative) about it´s real use on game by users. It´s very powerfull and simple to use and opens infinity possiblities for new (almost impossible) modifications on SH3.

SH5 have it made by TDW, and as SH5 structure allows, it is yet much more powerfull. TDW modified the entire game with it, from GUI to game behaviour. And people uses it obviously.

Now returning to your question, this update is ready, I´m using it. The unique necessary comment about the Crash Dive randomization is that to it really makes the difference is necessary the above explained adjusts on planes detection. If not, even with more delay to give a crash dive it is yet not enough to change your game. Well, abviously I can make a code yet more agressive in change the Crash dive time. For now, before any release, I shoud like to know comments, suggestions on the matter. It´s very easy for code anything on SH3 script. So, let´s start a debate with Crash Dive Randomization and any other good idea that could be done for now.:up:

[messageboy101]

So i can just enable your mod
And this is in it

Greets

[Rubini]

So i can just enable your mod
And this is in it

Greets
No, the Crash dive randomization is not yet released, it is not yet into the Sh3 Long patrol script that is available to download. Some days ahead after few discussion on the matter i will release it, ok?:up:

[Obltn Strand]

Just spend awful patrol circumnavigating british isles and crash diving about three times a day. I'll give it a try tommorow.

[messageboy101]

No, the Crash dive randomization is not yet released, it is not yet into the Sh3 Long patrol script that is available to download. Some days ahead after few discussion on the matter i will release it, ok?

great i will be looking forward to it
your SH3 LP mod is great to
superb work:yeah:

[HEMISENT]

Hi Rubini
It sounds like you have another great mod in work. I would love to try it out once you release it.

I love the randomization concept going way back to the days of the sabotage and malfunctions mod we worked on.

Cheers!
H

[CaliEs]

This reduces the normal crash dive routine only to a propability of 30% chance. Then a trouble crash dive with dive or engine problems at 60% with variable delay in time to dive and finally at 10% that a crash dive could be not possible at all and just a messy and slow dive routine could be done.

I doubt that the "30%", "60%" "10%" reflects the real life crash diving behaviour. Crash diving was a livesaving, essential task and therefore always on the crew's mind when the boat was surfaced.
I would sugggest 80 16 4 or something similar.

[sublynx]

This is a U-boat's crash dive procedure:

1. An electric bell gives the alarm.
2. The bridge watch prepares the bridge (close voice tube, demount portable machine guns, remove water-tight binoculars from UZO, remove radar detector aerial if necessary, etc.).
3. Simultaneously, vent valves for ballast tanks 5, 2/4, Quick diving tank (if empty) and 3 are opened in that order flooding from bow to stern to overcome the natural stern heaviness of the boat. If fuel is in ballast tanks 2 and 4, the main vent valve is opened with the inner vent valve remaining closed to equalize pressure in the ducts.
4. Simultaneously, the Petty Officer of the Watch goes below to his action station at the forward hydroplanes; the port quarter look-out follows to his action station in the conning tower with the Commanding Officer. The starboard quarter look-out goes below to the after hydroplanes. The Officer of the Watch is the last to go below. It is his duty to close the conning tower hatch. He then goes to his action station in the Control Room.
5. Simultaneously, close Supply and Exhaust air ventilation valves and any other openings in the pressure hull.
6. Planesmen position fore plane down and stern plane up. If it is a crash dive personnel not on watch might be ordered to move to the forward torpedo room to help get the bow under water. Initial angle of dive 4-7° to avoid propellers "racing".
7. Simultaneously, engine room personnel shut down and unclutch Diesel engines and shut the external air intake and exhaust valves.
8. Simultaneously, electric motor room personnel start electric motors
9. When the desired down angle is achieved (normally 12-15° but can go as high as 30 ° in a crash dive - at more than 40° acid may leak from battery cells) vent valve for ballast tank 1 is opened.
10. Simultaneously, the planes are brought to neutral position. Shut off Papenburg depth gauge at 18 meters and Precision depth gauge passing 20 meters.
11. Quick diving tank is blown just short of empty to avoid releasing bubbles. This should result in the boat being at slightly positive buoyancy because the Regulating/Compensating tank is adjusted and maintained to achieve that.
12. Once tanks are flooded, the valves are shut
13. When desired depth is approached forward dive planes were moved up and stern down to level the boat at desired depth.
14. Boat is maintained at depth dynamically by use of the dive planes.
15. Because air in the regulating tanks compressed with increasing depth the boat would grow heavier and the ballast pump or compressed air would be used to keep the boat at slightly positive buoyancy the opposite would occur if the boat moved to a shallower depth and water would be taken in.

There' a lot can go wrong in a procedure this complicated. The seamen in a U-boat are also tired and stressed, their close ones might have just died in the Eastern Front or in the bombings of German cities and most of the seamen are recruits, not professional soldiers with years of practice behind them.

However I agree with CaliEs that the failure percentage could be smaller. Playing the game might get too difficult with the values now planned. I hope that the values can be changed easily to match each player's preferred difficulty level.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini
It sounds like you have another great mod in work. I would love to try it out once you release it.

I love the randomization concept going way back to the days of the sabotage and malfunctions mod we worked on.

Cheers!
H
Hi mate,

It´s ready in truth. I´m just playing a campaign with all this on it to have a last (and complete) feeling having all working together.

I will release it some few days ahead, just waiting then, for this fining tunning.:up:

[Rubini]

I doubt that the "30%", "60%" "10%" reflects the real life crash diving behaviour. Crash diving was a livesaving, essential task and therefore always on the crew's mind when the boat was surfaced.
I would sugggest 80 16 4 or something similar.

There' a lot can go wrong in a procedure this complicated. The seamen in a U-boat are also tired and stressed, their close ones might have just died in the Eastern Front or in the bombings of German cities and most of the seamen are recruits, not professional soldiers with years of practice behind them.

However I agree with CaliEs that the failure percentage could be smaller. Playing the game might get too difficult with the values now planned. I hope that the values can be changed easily to match each player's preferred difficulty level.

Hi mates,

Thanks by yours comments and suggestions. :up:
As I said one post above I´m playing the game with all these things together (also with last Hsie&Stiebler fix) and I can say that the result is very good!

IMHO, the main problem in stock crash dive time is that it is exactly the same all the time. In real life we can guess for sure that it was not. Even the different sea states probably make it be different for each time, just imagine now with all the above procedures described by sublynx ...

The Crash dive randomization (as it is now) just abort completely the crash dive by 10%, the others 90% is just a normal crash dive with different times to acomplish it. In the game that I´m playing now, it is setted to vary from 0 sec (normal) to more 40 sec. It´s in truth a very small difference: probably in real life the difference was much major if just one of the above procedure had only a small delay.

So, I agree that a very big differences in CD could be not the best option, but as it is now on CD randomization it is far from this.

I intend to make the CD randomization adjustable by users, it´s relatively simple to implement this on the code....Then probably you will finish with yet more agressive times than the ones that i´m playing now ... just for challenge purposes!:up:

[sublynx]

Then probably you will finish with yet more agressive times than the ones that i´m playing now ... just for challenge purposes!:up:


:haha:

True,that is very likely to happen. You seem to know well how we SH3 gamers think :arrgh!:

[andqui]

Have you had the chance to test it out more- is the code working as intended? And do you have any more information on changing the sensors? I've gone and reduced the maxheight of the visual sensor to 5, which seems to work ok- but when leaving port, with constant planes buzzing around, I only "spotted" one of them with the periscope sensor, out of the maybe 5 flying around lorient. Does this sound correct- to me, it seems as if I'd only see maybe 1/5 planes around, which seems a bit extreme. What is the detection like on your end?

thanks

[Rubini]

Have you had the chance to test it out more- is the code working as intended? And do you have any more information on changing the sensors? I've gone and reduced the maxheight of the visual sensor to 5, which seems to work ok- but when leaving port, with constant planes buzzing around, I only "spotted" one of them with the periscope sensor, out of the maybe 5 flying around lorient. Does this sound correct- to me, it seems as if I'd only see maybe 1/5 planes around, which seems a bit extreme. What is the detection like on your end?

thanks

The suggested fix is working as intend at my end. Obviously you will only detect airplanes by visual (crew) at 6000m max (the default periscope visual sensor max dist setting) if using this fix. I don´t know if any supermod have changed this max dist, could be a good idea to check your sensors.dat. Anyway, even for 6000m, using 16km environment, will be much more restrictive for detect planes, but this is exactly the idea! Isn´t important, IMHO, to detect axis planes at harbours or even allied ones if any. The game is out there on the open ocean at first, do you not agree?

[andqui]

The suggested fix is working as intend at my end. Obviously you will only detect airplanes by visual (crew) at 6000m max (the default periscope visual sensor max dist setting) if using this fix. I don´t know if any supermod have changed this max dist, could be a good idea to check your sensors.dat. Anyway, even for 6000m, using 16km environment, will be much more restrictive for detect planes, but this is exactly the idea! Isn´t important, IMHO, to detect axis planes at harbours or even allied ones if any. The game is out there on the open ocean at first, do you not agree?

Yes, I agree. I just would think that the mechanics would be the same, harbor or not. I haven't had time to start a patrol and take it out into the ocean to check, so that's the only reason I was asking. If it works, it's fine by me. And 6 km sounds pretty reasonable. Will the extended crash-dive times be released sometime soon?

thanks for the hard work

[Rubini]

Yes, I agree. I just would think that the mechanics would be the same, harbor or not. I haven't had time to start a patrol and take it out into the ocean to check, so that's the only reason I was asking. If it works, it's fine by me. And 6 km sounds pretty reasonable. Will the extended crash-dive times be released sometime soon?

thanks for the hard work
And I just tested it at open ocean, so if you have more comments/observations on harbour side please let me know.:up:
Don´t forget to also check your sensors.dat periscope visual sensor max distance to we accumulate info on the matter, it will be useful.

The crash dive randomization is ready as i already said, i´m just finning tunning. Yesterday I lose alll my self modded sh3 by clicking on JSGME wrong button - that one that disable all mods...a bit tired, late night...and...GOD! How were the 60 mods last 3 years install ordem? I had not a recent snap shot of my mod ordem install!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

Well, seems that now i have it working again. JScones, JSGME author, really needs to put that button away or make it generate a instant snap shot of the mod install before uninstall everything. A suggestion!:/\\!!

[corvus]

Hi Rubini! Thanks for mods, I use some. I can offer a few ideas

Is it possible to increase the dive from the surface at hot keys * D * and * P * to 3-5 minutes? Minimum depth, which takes type 7 at crash dive was 40 meters. Dive in shallow waters require more time.

You can make the sound FuMB. This output from the shipboard internal sound system, like alarm. But I don"t know how it sounded.

My English is bad. Do all clear?

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini! Thanks for mods, I use some. I can offer a few ideas

Is it possible to increase the dive from the surface at hot keys * D * and * P * to 3-5 minutes? Minimum depth, which takes type 7 at crash dive was 40 meters. Dive in shallow waters require more time.

You can make the sound FuMB. This output from the shipboard internal sound system, like alarm. But I don"t know how it sounded.

My English is bad. Do all clear?
Hi Corvus,

Nice to have you at subsim!

If I understood well:
- You suggested to make also the normal dive and periscope dive to be more long in time - yes it´s possible, but I like as it is now...unless someone could show us that the RL normal dive time was much major than the one that we have in stock game...

- To adjust your crash dive for each uboat look at it´s .cfg file. You just need a simple text editor to change it - so no mod is necessary

- The FuMB had "sound" in RL? Anyhow I noticed that the SH3 script sounds aren´t always synchronized with objects that have short annimations on SH3. This can be a limitation.

[sharkbit]

Have ypu worked any more on the crash dive randomization? I loooked thru the long patrol script thread and didn't notice anything.

Just wondering.

Thanks.

:)

[brett25]

this looks really cool, cant wait to try:up:

[Rubini]

Have ypu worked any more on the crash dive randomization? I loooked thru the long patrol script thread and didn't notice anything.

Just wondering.

Thanks.

:)

this looks really cool, cant wait to try:up:

Thanks guys by the interest!

Yes, the crash dive randomization is already ready since some months; i also added to the package a update to "Long patrol Script" mod, including an "real time" Abandon boat" mod (with lifeboats going away from your uboat, real scutlle charges that sink your uboat and a roll dice on your fate after that). The Crash dive randomization also includ randomization time to normal dive, PD and SnorkelDepth, all them optional. Lately i also update the Air torpedo mod to version 3 that includes dolphins and whales eventually at your campaign that are really detectable (visual and hydrophone), just to "add" atmosphere for the game.

But never released any of them because i´m too busy at RL, so I have not the time to adapt all these features to the big mods or to support the possible users of these mods in time. I guess that I will have a better and more fun life in some months ahead, then, I probably will release this package.

I just can say that I´m playing the game a lot with all this package and, IMHO, it adds a lot to the game, much more fun and challenge than before, because the game have more action in a good sense, more variety, more possible fates, more tense moments. Obviously all these in top of our communitty lastest graphical and improvement mods.:up:

[sharkbit]

Thanks for the update. I eagerly await the release. I would rather see it sooner than later but I totally understand how real life gets in the way of things. Enjoy life, have fun.

Without modders like you and your dedication, Silent Hunter would be dead. Thanks. :salute:

:)