Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested [Archive] - Page 3

CCIP

10-26-11, 11:09 AM

I should point out that I have a lot more US colleagues and a lot of my work has been with the US. I also have a very large number of American friends in general, from all walks of life. So I think I can still speak on behalf of US-dwelling academics just the same.

And again, I apologize for some of my generalizations, but they're no more untrue than their opposites. Particularly as far as sloganization - that's happening. Happening right in this thread, at that. I don't think I'm being particularly unfair in that sense. Not that there aren't plenty of sloganeering left-wing hippies Occupying things right now either. But that's not the point. I just really felt personally offended - it's easy to look from the outside and see a stereotype, sure, but I really don't approve of the hostility. I've faced enough of it by now that I'm really, really sick of it.

Otherwise I may have an association with social science, but I also work with doctors on actual problems in medical communication and systems design; my teaching is focused on critical thinking and rhetoric and I do what I can to give room to a variety of standpoints. I've also grown up in less-than-ideal circumstances, watched my parents and relatives resist a Communist government, watched my country go into total collapse, was raised in total poverty while dodging immense levels of crime, immigrated with my family legally (who were forced to leave by political circumstances, in large part) and never begged or got any state handouts. Busted my butt for this education and have done everything from spellchecking to cleaning toilets for a living. Even now I have a lot of issues with academia and the school system - I'd be the first to attack some problems in it, but it just offends me that someone would think that my standpoints and political views in life come from some sort of theoretical illusion. I've got a lot of life experience, as do many of my US colleagues. Everybody does, by a certain age. I just happen to believe in communal solutions to problems and have a massive distrust of the consumer society - which I can rationally substantiate, thanks to having a proper education in history, economics and social science. But my experience of history, economics and society isn't purely or primarily in the classroom. And look, I'm not the only one. I'm not even a minority. There are a lot of people - many of them American academics, by the way - who've inspired me to go as far as I have, who also bring a wealth of real wisdom and life experience into academia. The system sucks some of that out of them, but it's still far from a liberal loonie paradise here. That's why I'm being so fiercely defensive here. It really isn't that simple.

Thus my defense of it. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, as all. On the other hand when I speak of sloganization, I don't think I'm all that far off the mark. That's precisely what you get out of a lot of mainstream media and grassroots political movements. That's why I've been cynical of Occupiers to begin with - I don't buy for a second the idea that they're some conspiracy by Obama to keep himself elected, but then I also don't doubt for a second that the movement has long devolved into slogans thrown at them from somewhere above. The moment it became about "99%", that movement was lost to me.

[edit]
PS - I apologize for raising such a stink over this. As you might be able to tell, I'm having a rough week at my already poorly-paid, stressful, long-hours teaching job. As you might guess, this was another thing that I didn't really want to hear about :(

1480

10-26-11, 01:02 PM

Don't you feel so much better now :salute:.

When I say disconnect, it has nothing to do with life experience. I will give you an example: there are officers at our training academy who have been instructors for some years now. They haven't been on the street in a while. There is a disconnect between their experiences and what is happening now. We have be fortunate enough to keep crystal meth a "minor" problem until the last few years or so. You can show recruits pictures of what a meth lab looks like till you are blue in the face, but since that instructor has zero actual experience with them, how can he give any reasonable answers to questions that are brought up. These places are death traps.

Welcome to my world brother! :rock:

And I actually think we believe in the same conclusion, just the causes we may disagree with.

tater

10-26-11, 02:01 PM

mookiemookie

10-26-11, 02:07 PM

I'd wager the "99%" at the protests in the US are better off than 99% of the people on earth.

(a study showed an American with an income of average for the bottom 10% is better off than 2/3 the population of the planet)

Yes, clearly we shouldn't try and voice displeasure at the corruption on Wall Street until everyone else in the world catches up to our standard of living.

AVGWarhawk

10-26-11, 02:19 PM

Yes, clearly we shouldn't try and voice displeasure at the corruption on Wall Street until everyone else in the world catches up to our standard of living.

Absolutely. In fact, we are busy helping many lesser developed countries do just that. :O:

nikimcbee

10-26-11, 02:43 PM

@1480
I saw a story the flea-baggers are going to storm your buddies office. Are you going to be in the middle of it?:haha: (not the mass of flea-baggers, just the situation.) If you are going to be amoungst the flea-baggers, I'll go to costco and pick up some advantage for you.:yeah:

http://placeitlocal.com/sites/default/files/Advantage%20Flea%20Drops%20for%20Dogs%2021-55%20lbs..jpg

nikimcbee

10-26-11, 02:46 PM

the story:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Occupy-Chicago-Takes-on-City-Hall-132605808.html?dr

Go take some funny pix for me. Just wash your hands when you're done.:dead:

Jimbuna

10-26-11, 03:26 PM

AVGWarhawk

10-26-11, 03:36 PM

As predicted a few pages back.....stale, boring and not news worthy anymore.

(Reuters) - "Occupy Wall Street" is occupying less space in TV broadcasts, newspapers and social media as the story settles into a familiar pattern and protesters dig in for what could be a protracted fight.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/25/us-protests-idUSTRE79N61O20111025

1480

10-26-11, 07:28 PM

the story:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Occupy-Chicago-Takes-on-City-Hall-132605808.html?dr

Go take some funny pix for me. Just wash your hands when you're done.:dead:

Oh yes I will. We will be on the line, according to preliminary plans, which are always subject to change. I found a body condom and have my gas mask, should be ready to roll.... :up:

1480

10-26-11, 07:31 PM

Yes, clearly we shouldn't try and voice displeasure at the corruption on Wall Street until everyone else in the world catches up to our standard of living.

Why not voice our displeasure over Solyndra, Operation Gun Walker, Black Panther voter intimidation, Light Squared, killing US citizens in foreign countries....oops that would be the Obama administration- move along, nothing to see here folks....

1480

10-26-11, 07:33 PM

Behave yersel...naughty boy :03:

It's one of the few jobs I know of having to wash your hands before and after using the washroom! :woot:

CCIP

10-26-11, 07:50 PM

tater

10-26-11, 08:35 PM

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tatersw/Misc/1percent.png

Boo Hoo, you have to pay back student loans you used to buy MacBooks and iPhones. (I also think them claiming "99%" status is pretty funny when they are very likely all well into the top 50% or higher.)

mookiemookie

10-26-11, 08:47 PM

Why not voice our displeasure over ...killing US citizens in foreign countries....

I did.

1480

10-26-11, 09:24 PM

I still think it's perfectly fine to voice displeasure. It's a civil right. That's what makes America great, right? As long as they keep it civil, they can occupy all they want. And I think the more reasonable among us will be able to tell what's crap and what's not. I don't think holding the financial sector to account actually damages the nation and society - it should strengthen it. And I think the only good proof that it's strong is if the protestors end up peacefully going home after reasonable actions are taken - and that's right, I think they should be heard because a bunch of things they say are pretty common sense.

Sadly, it's my suspicion that it's not what most of them are after. In fact it's rapidly turning into a movement for little more than media attention.

If you checked out some of my video links than you know that while there are valid criticisms, they are few and far between. It appears many of these folks would not know how to open up a bank account, let alone know how differing economic theories work. They had their 15 minutes and as you have stated, are no longer the cause celebre for the media. I have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It's when the unwashed infringe upon other peoples rights and liberties, that is where I draw the line.

I did.

I remember, that is why I included it. No other opinions on the other scandals? A US LEO was killed, along with hundreds of Mexican citizens. A DNC bundler was a lead investor in a "green energy" company that gets half a billion of our tax money just to go bankrupt less than a year later. Attempting to change an air force general's testimony for exclusive GPS rights, that would put our troops in harms way for a bottom line. Dropping an investigation of voter intimidation because its offenders are the same skin color of the POTUS and our governments AG....

Sea Demon

10-26-11, 09:36 PM

I still think it's perfectly fine to voice displeasure. It's a civil right. That's what makes America great, right? As long as they keep it civil, they can occupy all they want. And I think the more reasonable among us will be able to tell what's crap and what's not. I don't think holding the financial sector to account actually damages the nation and society - it should strengthen it. And I think the only good proof that it's strong is if the protestors end up peacefully going home after reasonable actions are taken - and that's right, I think they should be heard because a bunch of things they say are pretty common sense.

Yes. People have a right to speak their mind. These people , however don't have a right to infringe on the rights of others to have their voices heard. Nor do they have a "right to be heard". People around the capital are sick of listening to these jerks. The Sacramento event has a mass of human waste loitering around for days, banging on drums and chanting deep into the night (so nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods can sleep). They have also been leaving their garbage lying everywhere. These lunatics apparently believe it's a right to trash neighborhoods and keep people and their school age kids awake at all hours of the night to get their point across. But people with a sense of decency, common sense, and courtesy reject this kind of insanity. If anything, these OWS types need to be held acountable for it.

I say it's time for the firehoses.....at least here in Sacramento.

1480

10-26-11, 09:43 PM

Yes. People have a right to speak their mind. These people , however don't have a right to infringe on the rights of others to have their voices heard. Nor do they have a "right to be heard". People around the capital are sick of listening to these jerks. The Sacramento event has a mass of human waste loitering around for days, banging on drums and chanting deep into the night (so nobody in the surrounding neighborhoods can sleep). They have also been leaving their garbage lying everywhere. These lunatics apparently believe it's a right to trash neighborhoods and keep people and their school age kids awake at all hours of the night to get their point across. But people with a sense of decency, common sense, and courtesy reject this kind of insanity. If anything, these OWS types need to be held acountable for it.

I say it's time for the firehoses.....at least here in Sacramento.

Send them to tailgate before the next Raiders game :yeah:

CaptainHaplo

10-26-11, 09:48 PM

Send them to tailgate before the next Raiders game :yeah:

No - holding them accountable is one thing. Torturing them is another....

Sea Demon

10-26-11, 10:01 PM

No - holding them accountable is one thing. Torturing them is another....

I agree with this. I support their right to peacefully assemble, and spout their views. But I don't support their loitering, trashing parks/neighborhoods, blocking traffic, stopping normal people from entering parking garages and "corporate" controlled buidlings, and keeping people and their kids who happen to live close by up all night. They have no right to do it, and they're scumbags for thinking they can.

Law enforcement needs to do their jobs and put an end to it. And if necessary disperse the event or in the extreme cases, arrest the agitators if they don't cease that nonsense.

Personally, these freaks wouldn't survive a Raider's tailgate. Even that may be too harsh. LOL.

CaptainMattJ.

10-26-11, 10:02 PM

I get it. wall street holds ridiculous amounts of money with only a disproportionately handful of people in charge of it. They gambled that money and lost. WE had to bail them out, and there went the housing market. the fact they can do that should be a massive red flag. Capitalism? What a joke.

But this movement is merely a stain. It has no organization, seemingly ridiculous demands and it simply wont affect these corporations, because they just dont care.

help the world? We have our own problems. Until we actually have a surplus, and more jobs in the hands of hard working american citizens without having a 9% unemployment rate, then we can focus on the world. But with the way things are going, getting into absurd, costly guerrilla wars across the world, amnesty, and allowing these corporations to simultaneously ship jobs to cheaper parts of the world, decrease quality, and increase costs, its going to take a LONG time to actually have a surplus and pay off this debt. We shouldnt have to degrade our standards of living because of money hoarding greedy pigs and massive influxes of illegal immigrants Completely oversaturating the jobs market

1480

10-26-11, 10:06 PM

No - holding them accountable is one thing. Torturing them is another....

Is it actually torture or a right of passage....:arrgh!:

tater

10-27-11, 08:29 AM

Protesting is fine, and legal. Squatting is not. I'm fine with them commuting to a protest site, even playing tag-team and being there all night. I don't think they have the right to interfere with anyone else's right to go about their business, though. Crossing the street because one side is crowded with protest is fine for a few hours, but for days or weeks it is unfair to those with a legitimate right to use public streets, sidewalks, parks, etc.

AVGWarhawk

10-27-11, 08:55 AM

Baltimore is handling it differently. McKeldin Square is the spot to protest in Baltimore however it is not a camping site. As a result of this non-permitted campsite, the protesters have been told to vacate the square at night but can leave 1 tent with two people.

CCIP

10-27-11, 09:01 AM

nikimcbee

10-27-11, 01:53 PM

Actually that's one part about these protests that I don't get. Why the squatting? Why occupy public (or private, for that matter) land? There's a line between public protest and having a chance to air out views, and trying to do that through being a public nuisance.

Last I checked, being an annoyance is not a good way to instigate positive change.

I think it's a "lifestyle". The flea-baggers are just using the "occupy" movement to live the lifestyle. When the occupy fad goes away, they'll go away and will come out when the next socialist/communist/anarchist protest starts. Pornland and Seattle are infested with this lazy scum.

Oh, btw, the occupy leaders:haha::har: are angry that the flea-baggers are eating all of the free food.:har::har:

Peace, land, bread!

AVGWarhawk

10-27-11, 02:35 PM

I think it's a "lifestyle". The flea-baggers are just using the "occupy" movement to live the lifestyle. When the occupy fad goes away, they'll go away and will come out when the next socialist/communist/anarchist protest starts. Pornland and Seattle are infested with this lazy scum.

Oh, btw, the occupy leaders:haha::har: are angry that the flea-baggers are eating all of the free food.:har::har:

Peace, land, bread!

Some truth to this. There are career college students. There are professional protesters. The have learned to generate issues at the protests to get media attention. Things of this nature.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/made-in-china.jpg

Sailor Steve

10-27-11, 02:44 PM

HEY! I'm lowly offended by that picture! I'll have you know that my Official US Navy hat was made in Vietnam! The other one was made in China, but so what!:rotfl2:

AVGWarhawk

10-27-11, 02:50 PM

HEY! I'm lowly offended by that picture! I'll have you know that my Official US Navy hat was made in Vietnam! The other one was made in China, but so what!:rotfl2:

My wife was looking at a pair if New Balance shoes last night. Also made in Vietnam! There is so much manufacturing outside the US it's incredible. Not a wonder we are in a pickle.

tater

10-27-11, 05:50 PM

In some municipalities, other rallies have been required to take out insurance, rent toilets, etc. All to the tune of thousands of dollars for a rally of a few hours.

Wonder if any of the "occupy" protests are required to do the same.

yubba

10-27-11, 06:00 PM

It's funny there is more capitalism going on in communist countries than there is in the states. So much for the grand soceity they wanted us to be, a consumer nation with no manufacturing how stupid is that. I thought ows ers were for the little guy, and they are all bent out of shape the homeless are eating their food, I thought this was a share and share alike kind of thing what's this world come-ing to when you can't trust protesters and what they stand for. That's why I like TEA

CaptainMattJ.

10-27-11, 06:16 PM

we cant be a consumer economy if we have no money to buy anything. And what exactly creates more high paying jobs? tons of Walmarts selling tons of unreliable chinese low-grade items, or electronic engineering facilities and assembly plants.

China has now become the new Soviet Union. a massive nuclear superpower with torrents of disposable manpower to throw around. why? because we let them. WE ship ridiculous amounts of jobs overseas to china, and what do they expect?

And im totally loving the whole republican campaign solgan: "Blame it ALL [and i do mean ALL] on Obama. But if you vote for me, i can somehow improve the economy [although i cant tell you how im going to achieve this, just trust me]" funny how much criticism obama gets for the fact that republicans and democrats in congress, the true de facto leaders in this government, can and will NEVER agree to each others demands, no matter how logical they may be. That, and the fact that obama didnt single-handedly cause the recession and just BARELY got anything past congress.

1480

10-27-11, 06:33 PM

I blame it all on the death of Jerry Garcia! These are the same folks that would hold signs that read: I need a miracle!

Platapus

10-27-11, 06:39 PM

And what exactly creates more high paying jobs? tons of Walmarts selling tons of unreliable chinese low-grade items, or electronic engineering facilities and assembly plants.

The electronic engineering facility and assembly plant won't create jobs unless there is a demand not only for their product but also for the product at their price.

No demand = no buying = no selling = no production = no jobs

China has now become the new Soviet Union. a massive nuclear superpower with torrents of disposable manpower to throw around. why? because we let them. WE ship ridiculous amounts of jobs overseas to china, and what do they expect?

That's capitalism at its purest. The consumer wants the mostest for the leastest. It may be handy to blame the big evil corporations for shipping jobs overseas, but it is the citizenry right here that made the decision to buy less expensive instead of buy American. We started making this decision in the late 1940's and we have never stopped.

Is it realistic to expect the American consumer to deliberately pay MORE for a product when there is a chance to buy the same (or better) product for LESS? That is not what capitalism is about.

And that is something that American's need to understand. Capitalism does not always work in our favour. It is great when it did, but times change. Buying a product based on where it is produced would be a form of Nationalism, not capitalism. Capitalism, by its very nature, is unfair or at least nationalistically unbiased.

It is my opinion that there is no quick fix to the employment issue or the deficit problem. It took us decades to get in to this mess, it will probably take decades to get out of this mess. The problem is that there are no politicians interested in a solution that occurs after the next election.

It is a nice fantasy to think that we might have politicians interested in what is best for the country, but the reality is a politician's priorities are

1. Getting him/herself re-elected
2. Getting other politicians of the same party elected/re-elected
3. Furthering the politician agendas of their political party
4. Hindering the political agendas of the opposing political party
99. Doing what is best for the country.

If we could find a politician interested in putting country first, they would never stand a chance of being re-elected, assuming they would be elected in the first place.

Yeah, it is pretty depressing. :shifty:

August

10-27-11, 06:51 PM

CaptainMattJ.

10-27-11, 07:11 PM

The electronic engineering facility and assembly plant won't create jobs unless there is a demand not only for their product but also for the product at their price.

No demand = no buying = no selling = no production = no jobs

That's capitalism at its purest. The consumer wants the mostest for the leastest. It may be handy to blame the big evil corporations for shipping jobs overseas, but it is the citizenry right here that made the decision to buy less expensive instead of buy American. We started making this decision in the late 1940's and we have never stopped.

Is it realistic to expect the American consumer to deliberately pay MORE for a product when there is a chance to buy the same (or better) product for LESS? That is not what capitalism is about.

And that is something that American's need to understand. Capitalism does not always work in our favour. It is great when it did, but times change. Buying a product based on where it is produced would be a form of Nationalism, not capitalism. Capitalism, by its very nature, is unfair or at least nationalistically unbiased.

It is my opinion that there is no quick fix to the employment issue or the deficit problem. It took us decades to get in to this mess, it will probably take decades to get out of this mess. The problem is that there are no politicians interested in a solution that occurs after the next election.

It is a nice fantasy to think that we might have politicians interested in what is best for the country, but the reality is a politician's priorities are

1. Getting him/herself re-elected
2. Getting other politicians of the same party elected/re-elected
3. Furthering the politician agendas of their political party
4. Hindering the political agendas of the opposing political party
99. Doing what is best for the country.

If we could find a politician interested in putting country first, they would never stand a chance of being re-elected, assuming they would be elected in the first place.

Yeah, it is pretty depressing. :shifty:
Except we cant control Chinese ecocnomic standards. And we cant determine prices of chinese goods and services.

If we bring industrial jobs back here, we are able to not only increase quality standards, but increase the minimum wage for workers and cost of these items. The reason the hurt is being put on the average family is because everything BUT their salaries has increased in price. If we somehow manage to increase living wages, decrease prices, rebuild economic development and increase quality then the world will start to shape up back to its pre-2000's height. Of course, simply the fact that the american family can afford to buy the items they make helps countries who sell to us too.

As a country, like Germany per say, would you rather buy slightly more expensive, better quality items made here, where standards are higher, or in china, were you buy dirt cheap worthless items. Capitalism Has failed us, because corporations always go for china. Not only do you buy cheaper and are allowed to sell higher, but the fact that the low quality items break and need replacements much more often mean that your going to make BIG profit at the expense of the consumer. And when a slight breeze of economic downturns roll over, these corporations skyrocket the price. Not because of "decreased supply", but because its a crafty excuse to feed people as to why you skyrocket prices while disproportionately maintaining or decreasing salaries.

Platapus

10-27-11, 07:19 PM

If we somehow manage to increase living wages, decrease prices, rebuild economic development and increase quality

If you can figure out how to do all that at the same time, I will gladly subscribe to your newsletter. :up:

CaptainMattJ.

10-27-11, 10:06 PM

If you can figure out how to do all that at the same time, I will gladly subscribe to your newsletter. :up:
Big "if" right? :O:

But shipping jobs back here, enforcing the standards and regulations viciously, and SOMEHOW finding a reasonable median between free and enforced markets, then such a thing might actually happen. These oil companies pump up prices (no lame pun intended) to ridiculous levels, and claim that the oil is "in short supply" when theyre sitting on massive reserves. But in this "free market", where the prices of oil and subsequently everything else skyrocket over the wages we earn, things get messy. When theres only a couple companies truly in business in the food and oil game, there is no one else to turn to. And that means that they can put their prices as high as they want, and people wont have anyone else to turn to. either we somehow manage to make fair restrictions in place to prevent such gouges or we find a way to protect small businesses to compete with giants.

AVGWarhawk

10-28-11, 05:17 AM

Do not shop Walmart. I don't.:D

1480

10-28-11, 09:10 AM

Do not shop Walmart. I don't.:D

Why? You would miss out on gems like this "fella":
http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1036.jpg

AVGWarhawk

10-28-11, 10:03 AM

Why? You would miss out on gems like this "fella":
http://media.peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1036.jpg

I can not say we have seen unsavory characters as this at our local Walmart but we have seen something close. In reality, we do not shop Walmart because of the mass of people always there. The shelved items in one particular Walmart in our area looks like a bomb went off. The staff is normally disinterested in you, the store or their jobs. The patrons run amuck along with their kids. Most are just floating around the store on their cell phones with a cart that is empty. Overall, it is just a unpleasant experience. However, there is another Walmart close to our home and is a bit better. We sometimes drop by maybe once in a six month period. We shop Target every two weeks. Furthermore, stores like Walmart are nothing but a gorilla. Walmart squashes out the the small businesses. It has hurt Kmart. Target's number one competition is Walmart. Personally, I don't want one stupid mega-store like Walmart and nothing else to choose from when shopping. Walmart could close tomorrow with all it's containers full of China product and I would not miss it at all. :03:

mookiemookie

10-28-11, 10:18 AM

I can not say we have seen unsavory characters as this at our local Walmart but we have seen something close. In reality, we do not shop Walmart because of the mass of people always there. The shelved items in one particular Walmart in our area looks like a bomb went off. The staff is normally disinterested in you, the store or their jobs. The patrons run amuck along with their kids. Most are just floating around the store on their cell phones with a cart that is empty. Overall, it is just a unpleasant experience. However, there is another Walmart close to our home and is a bit better. We sometimes drop by maybe once in a six month period. We shop Target every two weeks. Furthermore, stores like Walmart are nothing but a gorilla. Walmart squashes out the the small businesses. It has hurt Kmart. Target's number one competition is Walmart. Personally, I don't want one stupid mega-store like Walmart and nothing else to choose from when shopping. Walmart could close tomorrow with all it's containers full of China product and I would not miss it at all. :03:

I refuse to shop at WalMart for the reasons you mentioned (the one closest to me is like going to a flea market in a third world country) but also because I don't like their receipt and bag checking policy. I bought the stuff, it's mine, I paid the money, transaction over. Nothing gives them the right to rifle through my things on the way out of the store. If for some reason I have to go to WalMart, I walk by the receipt checker guy on the way out and say "No thank you." I've never had a problem doing so. But then again, I can count the times I've been to WalMart in the last 10 years on one hand.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 10:35 AM

Wally World is a scourge.

Around here they try to sell food and the shelves are a joke. Lightly stocked. Everyone that works there is paid so little, and treated so bad by customers and bosses, they want to kick you for a simple question.

Shopping there is contributing to the low wage, union busting lifestyle the far right wishes on us.

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 10:37 AM

I believe our problems are the natural result of the transition to a world economy. Standards of living have always been tied to economic strength so it necessarily follows that our standard of living has to fall as we increase the strength of the rest of the world.
Is that a comparative or an absolute value? As our economic strength falls are we actually worse off? I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that "standard of living" refers to how we live, and, though comparisons are made, it's not really comparative. Does Dowly enjoy a better standard of living than I do? As more countries obtain modern conveniences, or necessities, does that really lower my "standard of living"?

per say
Per se. It's Latin, and means "by itself".

frau kaleun

10-28-11, 10:43 AM

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 10:46 AM

All you folks refusing to shop at Wal*Mart are elite, effete snobs. :O:

Or else you can afford not to. I, on the other hand, can't afford not to. When a can of chili costs half there what it costs at my local grocery store, I have no choice. Yes, there are many things there made in other countries, but many others are not, especially the food, which is much cheaper than anywhere else, at least in my town. Also, in my town the Wal*Mart stores are clean and neat, and the employees are no better or worse than those at any other store in the area.

"Made in China"? Take a good close look at the box before you buy anything from Sony - they outsource too. Phillips television? Look before you buy. Those are only the ones I remember from the brief Christmas job I had at the local Wal*Mart. Also, who else in town will hire the disabled or elderly who still have to work and put them by the doors as greeters? I can't go there as much as I used to because I have to ride the bus, and shopping several miles away is a hassle. So I walk to the local store and wish we had a Wal*Mart closer to where I live.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 10:50 AM

Despite hearing numerous accounts of receipt/bag checking issues at Walmarts nationwide, I have to say I have never once had anyone ask me to stop so they can check my stuff on the way out of a Walmart here locally (and I've shopped in 5-6 different WM locations over the years).

OTOH, I don't shop at any Walmart on a regular basis, so maybe I've just been lucky. But at the one nearest me, where I shopped maybe once a month or so when they first opened, I've never even seen any Walmart employees near the exits waiting to stop customers to check stuff. Of course it's not like I'm looking around for someone who looks like an employee who might want to stop me on my way out the door. No eye contact means if someone wants me to stop for that they are either going to have to really yell at me to get my attention or else physically prevent me from walking out the door. I don't see either of those happening, in fact the latter would constitute a crime on their part so... no.

With all due respect Frau, what is your appearance? Where do you live
(no need to answer madame, hypothetical question, not privacy invading:))

Around here we got alot of (hmmm....I hate being politically correct so hate me... I am what I am)
We got alot of minorities, with their pants hanging off their butts, not a dime of cash on them who go there to shoplift. If I was a profit based company that catered to low income folks, I would expect low income behaviors..

Sorry if I sounded mean. But it is what it is.

(this applies to here, coastal New Jersey, not saying it is like that in your Wally World, I am sure the same trash of the majority walks into the midwestern ones.. Trash is trash, regardless of ethnicity. )

frau kaleun

10-28-11, 11:00 AM

All you folks refusing to shop at Wal*Mart are elite, effete snobs. :O:

If you've got a Walmart that is clean and well-maintained and you are confident buying groceries there... lucky you! :O:

The Walmart nearest me - which is the only one where it would be convenient to buy groceries - probably has lower prices than other nearby stores, but I had too many experiences where I opened a freezer case and started to put something in my cart only to find it was halfway thawed, or pulled something out of a (supposedly) refrigerated case that turned out to be room temperature once I had it in my hand. *shudder*

Did not give me confidence when it came to buying groceries there in general, and I'm not going to one store to buy frozen food and dairy products and a second store for everything else, especially when the second store is the Walmart here and they have already reduced their floor space and thus their inventory by half since they opened. Most of the non-grocery stuff I used to go there to look for or buy... there's just no point in stopping there for it, as the chances of finding it are slim to none.

Combine that with the fact that they have two dozen registers but either can't convince or aren't willing to pay for more than 2-3 cashiers to show up for any given shift, which means a ridiculously long wait in line in a store that is not really that busy - ugh.

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 11:08 AM

If you've got a Walmart that is clean and well-maintained and you are confident buying groceries there... lucky you! :O:
Of course I was joking with that opening line, hence the smiley. But that said, I have a big collection of funny T-shirts, all $7.50 from Walstore. I just can't get over the simple fact that a can of Nalley's Chili is $1.79 at the store I walk to, and 98 cents at Walmart. On the other hand, as I said, I have to get on the bus and haul everything I buy home in a big duffel bag, so it's no longer worth it when I have a store I can walk to. Once in a blue moon I make the trip to stock up on cheap staples. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) these days I buy pretty much everything except food and clothes online.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 11:16 AM

Of course I was joking with that opening line, hence the smiley. But that said, I have a big collection of funny T-shirts, all $7.50 from Walstore. I just can't get over the simple fact that a can of Nalley's Chili is $1.79 at the store I walk to, and 98 cents at Walmart. On the other hand, as I said, I have to get on the bus and haul everything I buy home in a big duffel bag, so it's no longer worth it when I have a store I can walk to. Once in a blue moon I make the trip to stock up on cheap staples. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) these days I buy pretty much everything except food and clothes online.

Most the other supermarkets pay health benefits to both full time and part time help, whereas... Wal Mart makes them pay themselves, most the time it is more than they make.

So next time you buy that can of chili, just know the guy who put it up there was able to afford his kids tonsilectomy or dentistry. (not your fault for wanting a bargain, it's a broken system)

It all goes back to corporate greed (insurance companies especially in this case) , which according to alot in this thread, "is good"

(So trash the working man, far righties, go on...Your blame the victim thing is working, like the marine who got shot in the head with a tear gas canister in Oakland, being blamed by the police chief)

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 11:24 AM

Most the other supermarkets pay health benefits to both full time and part time help, whereas... Wal Mart makes them pay themselves, most the time it is more than they make.
Really? Do you have evidence? I only worked there for a couple of months, and as a seasonal employee I recieved no benefits, but I was shown the package I would recieve if I was hired on for real, and it was okay. On the other hand I don't know that the part-timers at my local store get anything better.

Yes, they have cut part-time benefits for new part-time employees, but existing part-timers are not having their benefits cut. And "more than they make"? You need to back that up or retract it.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 11:42 AM

Really? Do you have evidence? I only worked there for a couple of months, and as a seasonal employee I recieved no benefits, but I was shown the package I would recieve if I was hired on for real, and it was okay. On the other hand I don't know that the part-timers at my local store get anything better.

Yes, they have cut part-time benefits for new part-time employees, but existing part-timers are not having their benefits cut. And "more than they make"? You need to back that up or retract it.

My wife is a manager with Shopright supermarkets. I also worked 10 years ago as overnight stock in a Shopright. It's kinda how we met.:)

6 months on the job and your are in a UFCW union, If you are with meat or deli you get a different union, but same bennies. Meat guys were the top dogs with pay and benefits.

Maybe your place was family run or non union?

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 11:45 AM

Okay, but my real question was about Walmart.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 12:07 PM

Okay, but my real question was about Walmart.

Depressing wages, and unaffordable health care (once again, not Wally Worlds fault,bu unregulated health insurance companies)
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart/health_insurance_program.php
http://www.hel-mart.com/docs/georgemiller_walmartreport.pdf
http://www.campusprogress.org/articles/ten_things_wal-mart_doesnt_want_you_to_know
http://www.longviewinstitute.org/projects/moral/walmart/10.23.03/
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/46974857.html
http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/health.html

It is a start. I can go on and on smearing Wal Mart and their treatment of employees (for eons). I can't make you stop shopping there. I am sure a big business advocate (not you particular Mr Steve, who Is my favorite poster here) will call all the sites I mentioned written by Obamas teleprompter maiden and try to discount it.

But that is fine. I am used to being smashed here.

Or even call me unpatriotic.
The working man needs help nowadays. Even from lunatics with bad spelling like me.

AVGWarhawk

10-28-11, 12:28 PM

Walmart has many issues concerning workers wages and healthcare. Healthcare was a big issue a few years ago.

soopaman2

10-28-11, 12:45 PM

Walmart has many issues concerning workers wages and healthcare. Healthcare was a big issue a few years ago.

I have to echo, that is the fault of UNREGULATED insurance compainies.

Capitalism works fine usually. Except in some cases.

Car insurance is mandatory. If they raise rates, there is nothing you can do (Look up how expensive car insurance is in NJ, amongst the tops in the country)
Healthcare is so expensive (And using Obamacare as an excuse to raise rates even though they are about to get 308,745,538 (2010 census) mandated customers...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703720004575478200948908976.html

I picked a Rupert Murdoch owned paper as a source to prevent from being flamed by the hardcore righties here, but I can dig up the lefty sources too.

frau kaleun

10-28-11, 12:59 PM

I generally judge how an employer treats its employees by the way that treatment trickles down to me as a customer.

Yes, it's possible to encounter an employee who is friendly and helpful and seems happy even in a place that doesn't treat its workers all that well, because some people are just like that. And it's also possible to encounter an employee who has a bad attitude even in a place that generally treats its workers well, because some people are just like that.

BUT when you go into a store - or in the case of Walmart, several stores scattered across town, with neighborhood demographics that vary widely in almost every respect - and continually encounter employees whose attitudes transmit very clearly the fact that they do not like it there... it's hard not to get a really bad feeling about an employer over time. And in the case of Walmart, that's if you can even *find* an employee as they seem to be perennially understaffed. Either they don't want to pay to keep the stores fully staffed (heaven knows they can probably afford it) or else they cannot, even in this economy, attract enough reliable workers to keep the stores fully staffed even during busy shifts. :nope:

AVGWarhawk

10-28-11, 01:12 PM

with neighborhood demographics that vary widely in almost every respect

This comprises the largest portion of reason why a store is the way it is and the employees act like they do. IMO...of course. The two stores around me are are like night and day!

soopaman2

10-28-11, 01:16 PM

August

10-28-11, 02:17 PM

Is that a comparative or an absolute value? As our economic strength falls are we actually worse off? I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that "standard of living" refers to how we live, and, though comparisons are made, it's not really comparative. Does Dowly enjoy a better standard of living than I do? As more countries obtain modern conveniences, or necessities, does that really lower my "standard of living"?

I hate to use Wikipedia but it's a simple explanation and i'm kinda pressed for time atm.

Standard of living is generally measured by standards such as real (i.e. inflation adjusted) income per person and poverty rate. Other measures such as access and quality of health care, income growth inequality and educational standards are also used. Examples are access to certain goods (such as number of refrigerators per 1000 people), or measures of health such as life expectancy. It is the ease by which people living in a time or place are able to satisfy their needs and/or wants.

Standard of living is often used as an economic component to measure people's welfare. It usually refers to the economic level achieved by an individual, household or firm. It may also be a measure of the goals that individuals set for themselves as consumers. Standard of living refers to the level of wealth, comfort, material goods and necessities available to a certain socioeconomic class in a certain geographic area. The standard of living includes factors such as income, quality and availability of employment, class disparity, poverty rate, quality and affordability of housing, hours of work required to purchase necessities, gross domestic product, inflation rate, number of vacation days per year, affordable (or free) access to quality healthcare, quality and availability of education, life expectancy, incidence of disease, cost of goods and services, infrastructure, national economic growth, economic and political stability, political and religious freedom, environmental quality, climate and safety. The standard of living is closely related to quality of life.
Hence we can conclude that the Standard of Living, suggests the level of well-being of an individual, household or firm as measured by various parameters like income, consumption etc. However to be more specific the widely acknowledged measure for standard of living is: Average real gross domestic product(GDP) per capita. We can explain this terms as follows:

GDP measures annual economic output — the total value of new goods and services produced within a country’s borders.
Real GDP is the inflation-adjusted value.
Average GDP per capita tells us how big each person’s share of GDP would be if we were to divide the total into equal portions

So yeah there is more to it than just economic strength but like the saying goes: "Money doesn't buy happiness but being poor sucks".

tater

10-28-11, 04:12 PM

Car insurance is mandatory only to protect other drivers and cars. Not your own.

Since uninsured rates are so high, anyone without "uninsured motorist coverage" is an idiot. You have to have it. Which makes the idiotic requirement to buy it in the first place moot.

The government should not require anyone to buy any insurance of any kind, IMO.

Curtailing costs is not even part of Obamacare. It's trillions of dollars to insure a few % more people with medicaid. It is designed to make employers dump people onto the medicaid rolls. Medicaid pays specialist providers less than it costs them to treat patients (my family paid—out of pocket—20-something grand to take care of medicaid patients last year (and every year). That's not our FICA tax bill, that's in addition—a tax solely on us because my wife is forced to treat them, for which she receives this negative reimbursement). The only reason any take it is because they are forced to if they want hospital privileges since hospitals are forced to take it in the ER.

The government is the problem. Allow health insurance across state lines. Dump the idiotic paradigm of employer-provided insurance—people should shop for insurance as they do for car insurance, home owners, etc. If any government care is going to exist for the desperately poor, that's fine, but make it pay what it should so the private pays don't have to eat the cost. Do this by increasing copays.

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 04:25 PM

I hate to use Wikipedia but it's a simple explanation and i'm kinda pressed for time atm.
Never a problem with me. I'm aware of the possibilities for abuse, but I'm also aware when the author backs his article up with a multitude of references.
So yeah there is more to it than just economic strength but like the saying goes: "Money doesn't buy happiness but being poor sucks".
:rotfl2: Reminds me of something I heard in high school, more than forty years ago: "Money may not buy happiness, but you can sure be miserable in a nice apartment."

My point was simply that technically I live in poverty, yet I have my own place, a working toilet, good food to eat, books, the internet, reliable transportation and money to pay for it, in fact pretty much all I really need. I'm working on getting a new computer and a car. I have access to a gym and a pool. If someone elses standard of living increases to match or surpass that it won't affect me a bit. I call that a pretty high standard of living.

TarJak

10-28-11, 04:57 PM

Given the choice, I know where I'd rather live:
http://ujenzibora.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/6a01053579496a970c0133ec4d3ea0970b-800wi.jpg

http://www.utahrealestateguide.org/images/salt-lake-city-utah.gif

How many people from Kinshasa have an account here at Subsim?

August

10-28-11, 05:22 PM

My point was simply that technically I live in poverty, yet I have my own place, a working toilet, good food to eat, books, the internet, reliable transportation and money to pay for it, in fact pretty much all I really need. I'm working on getting a new computer and a car. I have access to a gym and a pool. If someone elses standard of living increases to match or surpass that it won't affect me a bit. I call that a pretty high standard of living.

Well technically you do live pretty well, at least compared to the folks whose home is in the first picture Tarjak posted, but then again who is to say that your standard of living won't continue to decline until it gets to that point?

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 06:19 PM

No one at all. We were discussing the concept that one standard of living has to fall as other rise. I don't see that as necessarily so. Ours might fall. If it does, is it connected to the rise of another? I don't know. I'm just not convinced anybody else does either.

August

10-28-11, 06:50 PM

Sailor Steve

10-28-11, 07:00 PM

I don't know what it would take to convince you Steve but it seems pretty logical to me.
As I said, comparative vs real. Many countries have improved theirs in the last several decades. While we are ranked below a lot of them, are we really worse of now than in 1945, or better? We're currently having economic problems. All the arguments I see here and elsewhere blame governments, corporations, and other factors. Has anyone blamed that on the fact that other countries are doing well economically? It looks to me like others are having problems as well. I'm not sure how someone else improving his lot has to mean that mine is getting worse. Mine is getting worse, but I don't see the connection, nor do I see any logic in it.

nikimcbee

10-28-11, 11:53 PM

http://ujenzibora.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/6a01053579496a970c0133ec4d3ea0970b-800wi.jpg

Detroit?

nikimcbee

10-29-11, 12:01 AM

Given the choice, I know where I'd rather live

Aussie Homes:
http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/ad7.jpg

http://www.crystalinks.com/aborhome.gif

TarJak

10-29-11, 12:54 AM

LMAO
http://nyc2img.soundclick.com/04/images/c/band/consise.jpg?version=0

CaptainMattJ.

10-29-11, 02:00 AM

Not exactly Steve. True, there are countries that are doing much better economically because of the sudden flow of jobs from overseas into their country, ultimately leading to a portion of our economic problems here as the job market becomes over-saturated with more and more Americans (and illegals) trying to find work.

But theres always a way to have win-win situations with the growth of two countries. Trade, for example, goes both ways most of the time. something we have that they dont and vice versa. Unless of course, that country cant afford to buy from you. Or that country imposes high tariffs on your goods, and sells their goods by the tons whilst intaking little from ours. That sort of thing can lead to disproportional growth. They get tons of our money in the goods they sell us and we get little from them because they arent buying anything of ours.

Thats why consumer economies dont work. you must be selling and buying (or just selling, but that requires alot of demand) in a sort of equilibrium. more jobs in manufacturing here = less unemployment. manufacturing here = money coming back to us through trade. less unemployment = more tax paying citizens which = more revenue to the government to put back into our infrastructure.

Of course, we must also rise back to economic growth with the rest of the well-established countries. We rise and fall together, it seems.

Gerald

11-02-11, 02:32 PM

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/wall-st-protest-is-hurting-areas-families-bloomberg-says/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,November 2, 2011, 12:38 pm

AVGWarhawk

11-02-11, 03:31 PM

OWS has turned into a camping trip. :88)

Jimbuna

11-02-11, 04:05 PM

LMAO
http://nyc2img.soundclick.com/04/images/c/band/consise.jpg?version=0

LOL :DL

Gerald

11-02-11, 04:09 PM

OWS has turned into a camping trip. :88)Free recreation and new tourist spots,great :doh:

1480

11-02-11, 07:34 PM

Free recreation and new tourist spots,great :doh:

Once again and I am sticking to it: If Jerry Garcia was alive, there would no such thing as OWS....

JU_88

11-03-11, 04:51 AM

To my mind the biggest underlying problem with captialism (or at least the version that we are running :))
It that it largley functions on lending and debt. We have has a nice boom between the mid 90s and 2008, but its modly been funded by lending! when we how reach the point that goverments are on the brink of bancrupcy we got our selves one hell of a problem.
The U.S now borrows 42 cents to each dollar it spends, 32% of Americas $14 trillion sovereign debt is owed to China.
The Euro looks like it will fail or be scrapped if Greece defults and starts a domino effect in Europe, this will bad - but not nearly as bad if the dollar fails as a result of a U.S default, if so all other fiscal currencies will likely fail too since the $USD is the worlds reserve currency.

If America defaults, we will all face the very VERY challanging task of trying to put all the toothepaste back in the tube.

I think if this worst case scenario comes to light, my guess is that after much rioting, martial law and god know what else....captialsm 2.0 with new currencies will likley take its place, many aspects of the current system will not be included in the new version. The stock exchange is likley to be one of them.

I personally think that a substansial change is pretty much innevitable and just around the corner, the problem I see is that we are too focussed on trying to resist it, when we should really also be preparing for it.
Its gloomy but it needn't be the end of the world.

Gerald

11-03-11, 08:11 AM

Good point, :yep:

AVGWarhawk

11-03-11, 09:54 AM

Once again and I am sticking to it: If Jerry Garcia was alive, there would no such thing as OWS....

I said this looked like a tour with the Greatful Dead. Welcome to the village the show will start in 2 hours. :doh:

Gerald

11-03-11, 10:14 AM

I said this looked like a tour with the Greatful Dead. Welcome to the village the show will start in 2 hours. :doh: Snowboard,:yeah:

Ducimus

11-03-11, 12:05 PM

I think if this worst case scenario comes to light, my guess is that after much rioting, martial law and god know what else....captialsm 2.0 with new currencies will likley take its place, many aspects of the current system will not be included in the new version.

And then , 50 to 70 years later, some of the regulations that were put in place to prevent bad things from happening are rescinded in the interest of the almighty profit by a people with a short term memory; and the cycle starts all over again.

1480

11-03-11, 12:26 PM

Definitely law abiding citizens exercising their 1st amendment rights:
http://s.michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/wfv.jpg
http://s.michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/vandwf2.jpg
http://s.michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/vand6.jpg

:nope:

Ducimus

11-03-11, 12:32 PM

Well, at least they aren't curb stomping women. :haha:

Gerald

11-03-11, 12:32 PM

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/03/bloomberg-angered-by-reports-of-unreported-crime-at-zuccotti-park/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,November 3, 2011, 12:52 pm

1480

11-03-11, 12:46 PM

Well, at least they aren't curb stomping women. :haha:

Touche :yeah:

Sea Demon

11-03-11, 12:47 PM

Definitely law abiding citizens exercising their 1st amendment rights:
:nope:

I am so sick of these lowlife idiots. This is vandalism. This is no longer freedom of speech here. This is not "Democracy in action". This is crime. This needs to be dealt with appropriately. Bring on the firehoses. And arrest these criminals. Get em' off the streets.

What bothers me about these freaks is that they think that this is a legitimate way to express themselves. They think vandalism is "free speech". They believe blocking people going about their business is "free speech". They think causing damage to buildings is a legitimate form of "free speech". Well I say their message sucks to begin with. And they need a lesson on what rights are and how it all works. Your rights end when they infringe on others.

Much of these OWS nitwits have also expressed a belief that the fruits of the labor of others are theirs for the taking. That's the dominant message I have seen. I've seen their idiotic signs. That is a Communist mindset. It is an anathema to the American way of life. We people who actually work, pay taxes and make-up the functional part of America reject this radical insanity.

Gerald

11-03-11, 01:13 PM

This whole story has been traced out...:yawn:

1480

11-03-11, 01:27 PM

This whole story has been traced out...:yawn:

True, but the left coast idiots are stepping it up a notch. All the pics I posted were from Oakland a day ago. Bloomberg finally found religion and took a step as the leader of NYC.

Even better yet:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/31/BAQ01LOK11.DTL&tsp=1

City offices will stay open, although City Administrator Deanna Santana said in a memo that employees can use vacation or other paid time off if they want to participate in the walkout.

What kind of moonbat got elected to the mayor of Oakland.

AVGWarhawk

11-03-11, 01:27 PM

I told ya it is nothing but a camping expedition now. What of any steam and pull it had long since died. I think it is time to "GOSE", Go Occupy Somewhere Else.

Gerald

11-03-11, 01:34 PM

Cuba! :yeah:

AVGWarhawk

11-03-11, 01:38 PM

I was thinking Siberia. :hmmm:

Ducimus

11-03-11, 01:53 PM

I honestly don't know what they expect to accomplish. If they're trying to enact change.. well im no political major, but it seems to me they're going about it the wrong way. Squatting on wallstreet isn't going to do much. All these people, are little more then gum stuck on a wallstreeters shoes; and they can more then afford to buy new pair of shoes.

The way their going, their only hope to accomplish anything would be to lynch all the wallstreet fatcats from the street lamps, but doing so would kill any hope of accomplishing anything politically, as a violent act removes all credibility and turns them from a movement into a mob to be squashed. So either way, the occupy wallstreet thing is kinda moot.

AVGWarhawk

11-03-11, 01:55 PM

I foresee hypothermia in their future as winter sets in.

mookiemookie

11-03-11, 01:57 PM

The use of agent provocateurs is well documented.

But while officers may be in a no-win situation, at the mercy of orders carried on shifting political winds and locked into conflict with a so-far almost entirely non-violent protest movement eager to frame the force as a symbol of the oppressive system they***8217;re fighting, the NYPD seems to have crossed a line in recent days, as the park has taken on a darker tone with unsteady and unstable types suddenly seeming to emerge from the woodwork. Two different drunks I spoke with last week told me they***8217;d been encouraged to ***8220;take it to Zuccotti***8221; by officers who***8217;d found them drinking in other parks, and members of the community affairs working group related several similar stories they***8217;d heard while talking with intoxicated or aggressive new arrivals.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/occupy-wall-street-central-a-rift-growing-east-west-sides-plaza-article-1.969320#ixzz1cfcaqouH

If any of this results in even some of the excesses of Wall Street being curbed, then the protests have done their job. It's funny to read some of the posts here and imagine them being spit through clenched teeth. Especially the ones with all of the name calling. Those are the funnest. I get a kick out of that.

People are mad at the government selling them out to the megabucks, and others call them scum. It's like a psych experiment - see how bad you can twist someone's brain into fighting against their own self-interest.

Gerald

11-03-11, 02:01 PM

I foresee hypothermia in their future as winter sets in. Before then, they probably disappeared ;)

Sea Demon

11-03-11, 02:45 PM

If any of this results in even some of the excesses of Wall Street being curbed, then the protests have done their job.

People are mad at the government selling them out to the megabucks, and others call them scum. It's like a psych experiment - see how bad you can twist someone's brain into fighting against their own self-interest.

That's where the problem lies. The productive among us want to curb the excesses of government. Government costs me money(by force), and I'm sick of the excess waste, the overreach, and the corruption in government. The productive among us are sick of the unproductive and lazy making demands that government confiscate more from us to give to them. That is the excess that is helping to devalue our currency, and making it difficult for businesses to create jobs and spur innovation. You..like the OWS types have got it completely wrong. And it's one of the reasons why OWS demands won't ever play out. The wheels of business won't be "curbed". At some point, economic reality is all that's left.

I agree with you that many people are mad that government gave bailout money to these institutions. (See the Tea Party) I am also mad about it. But the OWS losers should focus on protesting Washington DC.....not financial institutions, and corporations that actually add value to the economy. If you've been to an OWS event you would see the real motivation. What I saw wasn't pretty. They want other people's stuff. They want taxpayers to subsidize their "lifestyle".

The OWS types are merely disincentivizing job creation in their cities. Talk about fighting against your own self interests. Vandalism as a form of "free speech" doesn't help them either.

We'll let this man speak reality from long ago :O::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPayWN9elk

Very appropriate for OWS.

Platapus

11-03-11, 04:40 PM

All it would take to break up this movement is for the news media to all agree not to cover it. Without chances to mug before the camera or be interviewed, they will soon lose interest and go back home.

The problem is that the media will continue to feed this movement for the entertainment value.

August

11-03-11, 05:01 PM

The use of agent provocateurs is well documented.

That's what you call that well documented? Two anonymous drunks and some hearsay?

tater

11-03-11, 05:10 PM

They should have been booted the first night, or the first time they did anything that ANY other group would not be allowed to do.

The precedent is now set. Say some KKK, or Aryan Nation idiots want to "occupy" the same park? How could they possibly kick them out until they'd been there at least as many weeks? It would be the government supporting speech they agree with (or feel is politically useful/expedient), and disallowing similar speech they do not agree with.

1480

11-03-11, 05:20 PM

That's what you call that well documented? Two anonymous drunks and some hearsay?

Actually that is resourceful police work.... :har:

Jimbuna

11-03-11, 06:53 PM

Really? :hmmm:

AVGWarhawk

11-03-11, 07:02 PM

Really? :hmmm:

Apparently they have not watched Dragnet. :stare:

mookiemookie

11-03-11, 07:15 PM

That's what you call that well documented? Two anonymous drunks and some hearsay?

Before you make a sarcastic comment, you may want to do a bit of research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO) on the subject. It is well documented tactic of the NYPD, (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60F14F83F540C718EDDAB0994DD4044 82) not to mention other police departments. (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_10920817) So yes, the use of agent provocateurs is well documented.

But of course this is all different now and they'd never do that again, right? Completely out of the question, eh? Right wing newspapers like The American Spectator would never engage in the practice (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/10/09/american-spectator-editor-admits-to-being-agent-provocateur-at-d-c-national-air-and-space-museum/), right?

August

11-03-11, 08:05 PM

Before you make a sarcastic comment, you may want to do a bit of research on the subject. It is well documented tactic of the NYPD, not to mention other police departments. So yes, the use of agent provocateurs is well documented.

But of course this is all different now and they'd never do that again, right? Completely out of the question, eh? Right wing newspapers like The American Spectator would never engage in the practice, right?

I never said that police departments around the country have never engaged in the practice, nor did I claim it was out of any question. I just asked if the word of two anonymous drunks and heresay by some equally anonymous "community affairs working group" (whatever that means...) you cited is somehow supposed to mean "well documented" in this particular instance.

As for the media doing it too, that's a different subject, unless of course you think the American Spectator is an arm of government. I have no doubt that any "news" organization is capable of it. Heck they're willing to hack the voice-mail of accident victims, photoshop war zone pictures, outright stage events and scenes to promote a particular political agenda.

But the American Spectator is no more likely to be engaged in the practice than Moveon or the Daily KOS. I seem to recall a lot of disbelief around here that agent provocateurs were present at Tea Party rallies. Maybe this will open some eyes, maybe not.

1480

11-03-11, 08:10 PM

Before you make a sarcastic comment, you may want to do a bit of research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO) on the subject. It is well documented tactic of the NYPD, (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60F14F83F540C718EDDAB0994DD4044 82) not to mention other police departments. (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_10920817) So yes, the use of agent provocateurs is well documented.

But of course this is all different now and they'd never do that again, right? Completely out of the question, eh? Right wing newspapers like The American Spectator would never engage in the practice (http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/10/09/american-spectator-editor-admits-to-being-agent-provocateur-at-d-c-national-air-and-space-museum/), right?

God forbid the police should use undercover officers to conduct investigations. If they needed to get some cred from these people, then of course they will do things to prove they are "legit."

When conducting a 1st amendment "intelligence mission" there are many hoops to jump through to get it approved by the feds to conduct said "infiltration." That is for investigations that will go beyond what occurs on the public way. All bets are off if it happens on the public way because no one has the reasonable expectation of privacy.

The safeguard of entrapment is in place for a reason.

Based on what the individuals said, the equipment they carried and their almost immediate release after they had been arrested amid protesters or bicycle riders, The Times concluded that at least 10 officers were incognito at the events. No factual evidence presented by the Times BUT that is what they concluded. Where is there any unlawful behavior cited in the article? All I read were vague descriptions of actions by people who may or may not have been the police.

Reading about the Denver incident: piss poor planning. Every officer working crowd control should have been told beforehand.

And the last incident: buffoonary. Not an agent of the government...

JU_88

11-03-11, 08:34 PM

That's where the problem lies. The productive among us want to curb the excesses of government. Government costs me money(by force), and I'm sick of the excess waste, the overreach, and the corruption in government. The productive among us are sick of the unproductive and lazy making demands that government confiscate more from us to give to them. That is the excess that is helping to devalue our currency, and making it difficult for businesses to create jobs and spur innovation. You..like the OWS types have got it completely wrong. And it's one of the reasons why OWS demands won't ever play out. The wheels of business won't be "curbed". At some point, economic reality is all that's left.

I agree with you that many people are mad that government gave bailout money to these institutions. (See the Tea Party) I am also mad about it. But the OWS losers should focus on protesting Washington DC.....not financial institutions, and corporations that actually add value to the economy. If you've been to an OWS event you would see the real motivation. What I saw wasn't pretty. They want other people's stuff. They want taxpayers to subsidize their "lifestyle".

The OWS types are merely disincentivizing job creation in their cities. Talk about fighting against your own self interests. Vandalism as a form of "free speech" doesn't help them either.

We'll let this man speak reality from long ago :O::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPayWN9elk

Very appropriate for OWS.

while I agree that vandalsim and shouts of 'boo hiss captialsim' are far from productive?
Do you fully understand the cause of the financial mess you are in?
You have a 40 trillion dollar Frederal deficit Your goverment now borrows 42 cents to each dollar it spends, - to say that threshhold has put the dollar in jepody is an understatment. And the U.S has recenly lost its AAA credit rating.
Just ask it yourself the question, where has all the money gone?

Yes the Goverment bailed out financial institutions with a combination of your tax dollars and huge loans from other nations such as China.
but they only did it to prevent the house of cards from collapsing. (to protect the likes of you)

Do you know why the banks and co-operations needed the bail outs?
the answer is irresponsible, wreckless and in some cases illegal business practices fuelled by greed and lack of regulation.

As for the devaluation of the dollar try this for size, a huge fredral deficit (because the goverment would rather borrow from china than tax the wealthy as they should) two costly wars & occupations, the 2008 bank bailouts and Quantitive easing.....

Most co-operations are not the bad guys, but a select and powerful
minority of them have spent the last decade bleeding the tax payer, the econemy, and the dollar dry.
What they have pumped back in to your economy is nothing compared to what they have taken away and squirrelled away....and are continuing to do so.

This graph is from 2007 its gotten worse since then.
http://graphsfordemocrats.blogspot.com/2010/11/distribution-of-us-wealth-2007.html

So while many of the OWS protesters are misguided, lets not forget that so are many those who oppose them.

Bubblehead1980

11-03-11, 09:02 PM

I knew this trash involved in these protests would get out of hand everywhere.Look at the NY "protest" aka unruly mob.Reports of rapes, theft, assault.Look at the human garbage in Oakland.This is one of the few times I am all for police busting some heads.Glad I don't live where this crap is going on.Although in my hometown in Florida there is one but they are staying respectful and cooperative with the city because they know better, the crap going on in NY and Oakland would NEVER fly there.

Have to blame some of this on high profile people such as Obama, Pelosi, Schultz etc endorsing this crap.Stoking the fires of envy etc. Forget how much fecal matter parading as human beings we have in this country until crap like this happens.Shows the stark differences in the quality of people on the sides.The Tea Party for example stays clean and peaceful.Aside from a few nuts, they don't have the crazies.

A inherently left wing protest such as the Occupy people are failing to bath, causing trouble in form of crime etc,disrupting business, affecting other people's day to day lives and deserve nothing more than that blunt end of a police baton, tear gas, and some jail time.

1480

11-03-11, 09:32 PM

Gerald

11-04-11, 07:59 PM

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/occupywallst-roundup-day-49/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record, November 4, 2011 6:43 PM ET

Gerald

11-05-11, 12:49 PM

Churn out this thread now ..... wait, it is rather expressed breast already :yawn:

Gerald

11-09-11, 05:14 PM

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/o/occupy_wall_street/index.html?ref=topics

CaptainHaplo

11-09-11, 07:05 PM

1480

11-10-11, 12:11 AM

Torvald Von Mansee

11-13-11, 03:34 PM

Wow!! All kinds of red herrings and strawmanning in here!! Any actual arguments?

Jimbuna

11-13-11, 03:39 PM

Wow!! All kinds of red herrings and strawmanning in here!! Any actual arguments?

Welcome to GT :DL

Platapus

11-13-11, 07:44 PM

Logic? We don't need no stinkin logic in GT.

Sailor Steve

11-13-11, 08:57 PM

Nothing like a little drive-by trolling to spice up the thread.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 02:29 AM

And of course - OWS in DC has now taken to beating up old people....

They sent a 78 year old woman to the hospital, real nice.

Blockading people in buildings, bowling over the elderly, and oh - it was a "conservative" dinner - but OWS isn't political - its about fairness...

Tell that to the 78 year old lady minding her own business. Or mayhap she attacked them like those mean, 1% cops are doing too huh?

Despicable.

Well, you know, the Occupy bunch is routinely compared to the Tea Party by leftist media types, right? Well:

Can we compare how many shootings have happened at Tea Party events vs. OWS events?
How many sexual assaults?
How many drug arrests?
How much violence in general, including calls to violence?
How about racist, anti-white or anti-semitic speech...which group actually has any of that on display?
How many Tea Party protests involved vandalism against "enemies", real and imagined that included destroying property of people including small business owners?

Yet the Tea Party is allegedly violent and racist....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/13/man-arrested-after-sexual-assault-at-occupy-philadelphia/

http://news.yahoo.com/man-shot-killed-near-occupy-oakland-protest-camp-084248154.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOkMizZjhBI&feature=related

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=32680

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18p23-mE4e0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlPY9AfQFqI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aINTb2ILHTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz22OvY6FTY&feature=related

JU_88

11-14-11, 06:23 AM

My god. This thread is well and truley stuck in a k-hole.
Who needs to read this thread when we can just go and watch the FOX coverage of OWS, (its basically the same thing) :woot:

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 07:42 AM

My god. This thread is well and truley stuck in a k-hole.
Who needs to read this thread when we can just go and watch the FOX coverage of OWS, (its basically the same thing) :woot:

People believe what they want to believe and reject anything to the contrary. Confirmation and disconfirmation biases at work. No sense in trying to reach them, they're too far gone.

Penguin

11-14-11, 08:16 AM

Funny how people complain about the bias towards "their" moevement, but use the very same methods to paint a picture about the "other" movement.

Methods that include:
- using the most extreme and wierd persons to claim they represent the whole movement
- using hearsaying combined with bias to make-up stories

A little about the amount of incidents that happened at OWS versus tea party incidents: It's basic mathematics, how many people took part in OWs and how many in tea party rallies? The latter are also temporary demonstrations, while the Occupy goes on for weeks, how many tea folks stayed overnight in tents?

The Occupy movement includes imo a much broader variety of people, with more different opinions than the tea partiers, who have much more clearly defined issues. OWS is a conglomeration of many different, even contrary opinions on issues, so it's not surprising to find crazy opinions there.

soopaman2

11-14-11, 09:30 AM

Let them ridicule, and have their fun.

The utter support for crony capitalism in this thread is just amazing.

After you cons bury the libs, they will throw you into the same pit...

But Megyn Kelly says they are not patriots, and so far left that Stalin would Blush. Must be true, hot girls employed by Rupert Murdoch are never wrong.. I call them newsbunnies. All skin, zero substance.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5503/100188600.jpg

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 09:32 AM

The Occupy movement has involved 1.4 million people in 950 cities and 82 countries around the world. It's no comparison to the tea party.

http://www.accelerated-degree.com/faceoff-occupy-wall-street-vs-tea-party-movement-infographic.jpg

JU_88

11-14-11, 02:17 PM

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5503/100188600.jpg

:haha: So true it hurts!

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 04:02 PM

Funny how people complain about the bias towards "their" moevement, but use the very same methods to paint a picture about the "other" movement.

I don't know about the biases. I think the left in general is delusional. The facts are there have been murders, rapes, calls to violence, actual violence, drugs, public disruptions, overt racism, and vandalism at OWS events. We simply did not see any of that at Tea Party events. It's a fact....deal with it.

In addition, I actually attended both rallies in Sacramento. And the video I posted above with the OWS nutcase was pretty much par for the course at that OWS event. In my experience, it was nothing like the Tea Party at all. And it was nothing like the stupid clown cartoon posted above. About 90% of the people there were clowns, hippies, freaks, public rejects, and socialist nutjobs. Many did not look, sound, or act employable. There were hardly any normal, family types participating. Nice try though.

I find it funny how people on the left have to pretend their event is "peaceful", "tolerant", and "patriotic" when it's nothing of the sort. :doh: These people simply want other people's stuff. If they wanted to find jobs and be self sufficient....they most certainly wouldn't be hanging out day to day at OWS.

August

11-14-11, 04:35 PM

The Occupy movement has involved 1.4 million people in 950 cities and 82 countries around the world. It's no comparison to the tea party.

Misleading liberal propaganda from biased sources.

JU_88

11-14-11, 04:41 PM

I don't know about the biases. I think the left in general is delusional. The facts are there have been murders, rapes, calls to violence, actual violence, drugs, public disruptions, overt racism, and vandalism at OWS events. We simply did not see any of that at Tea Party events. It's a fact....deal with it.

In addition, I actually attended both rallies in Sacramento. And the video I posted above with the OWS nutcase was pretty much par for the course at that OWS event. In my experience, it was nothing like the Tea Party at all. And it was nothing like the stupid clown cartoon posted above. About 90% of the people there were clowns, hippies, freaks, public rejects, and socialist nutjobs. Many did not look, sound, or act employable. There were hardly any normal, family types participating. Nice try though.

I find it funny how people on the left have to pretend their event is "peaceful", "tolerant", and "patriotic" when it's nothing of the sort. :doh: These people simply want other people's stuff. If they wanted to find jobs and be self sufficient....they most certainly wouldn't be hanging out day to day at OWS.

"They just want other people stuff"?

For 2 seconds forget the TeaParty and OWS and especially forget about Left and Right. because 'Left nad Right' has no bearing on the problems we are now seeing.
It is completley irrelivant.

Do you have a basic grasp of the problems faced by our western economies and societies today? are you aware how serious they are and how deep they run?
Do you have any idea how we have reached this critical point in time?
Do you know where all the money has gone - and why the Dollar is sinking?
Do you know what economists are forcasting?
Do you understand any of it all?

because I can assure you, the prosperity you and I have enjoyed all our lives is hanging by a thread.

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 04:59 PM

Misleading liberal propaganda from biased sources.

All those pictures of protests in Italy, Spain, Toronto, Sydney, et. al. are all just photoshop jobs from the liberal media, right?

You do realize how foolish that sounds? Just dismissing a wall of sources as all biased liberal propaganda. Ooooooookaaaay, buddy.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:04 PM

Do you have a basic grasp of the problems faced by our western economies and societies today? are you aware how serious they are and how deep they run?
Do you have any idea how we have reached this critical point in time?
Do you know where all the money has gone - and why the Dollar is sinking?
Do you know what economists are forcasting?
Do you understand any of it all?

because I can assure you, the prosperity you and I have enjoyed all our lives is hanging by a thread.

Indeed, I know. I'm not sure you have any grasp of how economies are derived, maintained, and grown. And I'm quite certain you have no understanding how economies are hollowed out by spending what you don't have (borrowing to spend), and how actions taken to disincentivize innovation and investment wreak disaster.

Ducimus

11-14-11, 05:04 PM

http://www.ducimus.net/temp/politics.jpg
Illustration: How politics is discussed; at the very least here on subsim General Topics, at worst, the entire US at large.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:07 PM

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 05:09 PM

Indeed, I know.

The way you carry water for the failed right wing policies of the past 30 years...the trickle down nonsense, I'm not sure you do.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:10 PM

http://www.ducimus.net/temp/politics.jpg
Illustration: How politics is discussed; at the very least here on subsim General Topics, at worst, the entire US at large.

Run and hide Ducimus. The people you support (leftist nutjobs, anarchists, perpetual "victims", and the lazy) and their movement is ineffective, weak, and intellectually dishonest.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:13 PM

The way you carry water for the failed right wing policies of the past 30 years...the trickle down nonsense, I'm not sure you do.

Trickle down has worked for my company. More to the point, freed up capital being put to use has put people to work and raised salaries. My company actually left Democrat controlled California for a Red State and is now thriving. You know California, where Democrat tax and spend failed policy has failed time and again. And where unemployment is still increasing, energy rates are sky high, and deficits are climbing. That type of government you support.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 05:15 PM

Run and hide Ducimus. The people you support (leftist nutjobs, anarchists, perpetual "victims", and the lazy) and their movement is ineffective, weak, and intellectually dishonest.

I could not, through any amount of word or illustration, have proven Ducimus' point as succinctly as you have.

JU_88

11-14-11, 05:15 PM

Indeed, I know. I'm not sure you have any grasp of how economies are derived, maintained, and grown. And I'm quite certain you have no understanding how economies are hollowed out by spending what you don't have (borrowing to spend), and how actions taken to disincentivize innovation and investment wreak disaster.

So if no such actions are taken there will be no disasters? everything will just keep ticking over as normal for another two decades? is that correct?
Ok fine feel free to enlighten me, im all ears.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:18 PM

Ok feel free to enlighten me, im all ears.

There are other views contrary to yours everywhere on this site. You're simply unteachable. You, by your words are set in your own paradigms.

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 05:19 PM

There are other views contrary to yours everywhere on this site. You're simply unteachable. You, by your words are set in your own paradigms.

Oh, the irony.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:21 PM

I could not, through any amount of word or illustration, have proven Ducimus' point as succinctly as you have.

Oh yes. Like Ducimus has not ever engaged in what he condemns. You'll have to forgive me if I can't take your post seriously here.

JU_88

11-14-11, 05:28 PM

Run and hide Ducimus. The people you support (leftist nutjobs, anarchists, perpetual "victims", and the lazy) and their movement is ineffective, weak, and intellectually dishonest.

And the people you support, will turn their back on you, the moment it all comes crashing down.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 05:30 PM

Oh yes. Like Ducimus has not ever engaged in what he condemns. You'll have to forgive me if I can't take your post seriously here.

Likewise. Like too many of my fellow Americans, you've become a caricature of what our nation has historically been about. You can't put your ideology down long enough to see what is there in front of you. Or, rather, I should say their ideology. That's what it is all about to you; party. You're misguided, lost in a sea of polemics. People like you cannot offer solutions to problems, can't fix the miss. People like you, like the blind that you are, are more concerned with being right than doing what is right. Your politics, and those of your counterparts on the left, have led us over this cliff, and now that we sit in a ravine of your navigation, all you clowns do is deify your political gods while damning your opponent's. Meanwhile, America dies.

And so, to return to your original insult, your respect has no meaning to me as I have none to give you. I would ask you to keep what I wrote in mind as you go to kneel before the altar of the right, but I have no misgivings about the fact that you have probably forgotten about it already.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:31 PM

And the people you support, will turn their back on you, the moment it all comes crashing down.

I don't expect anybody to come to my rescue. Just don't put barriers up so I can't get back on the saddle.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:38 PM

Likewise. Like too many of my fellow Americans, you've become a caricature of what our nation has historically been about. You can't put your ideology down long enough to see what is there in front of you. Or, rather, I should say their ideology. That's what it is all about to you; party. You're misguided, lost in a sea of polemics. People like you cannot offer solutions to problems, can't fix the miss. People like you, like the blind that you are, are more concerned with being right than doing what is right. Your politics, and those of your counterparts on the left, have led us over this cliff, and now that we sit in a ravine of your navigation, all you clowns do is deify your political gods while damning your opponent's. Meanwhile, America dies.

And so, to return to your original insult, your respect has no meaning to me as I have none to give you. I would ask you to keep what I wrote in mind as you go to kneel before the altar of the right, but I have no misgivings about the fact that you have probably forgotten about it already.

Huh? This relates nothing to my post to you. I didn't insult you in any way. But I won't be shut down because people say I "kneel before the right". That doesn't work on me. I strongly oppose what I see doesn't work. And I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. Too bad that offends you. But it doesn't change anything from my side of things. People voice strong opinions.....that's the way it is.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 05:41 PM

Huh? This relates nothing to my post to you. I didn't insult you in any way. But I won't be shut down because people say I "kneel before the right". That doesn't work on me. I strongly oppose what I see doesn't work. And I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. Too bad that offends you. But it doesn't change anything from my side of things. People voice strong opinions.....that's the way it is.

Again, likewise. However you are only partially right; I dislike the opinion, but it is not your opinion. I would explain, but it would be a waste of my time. You're happy with your gods.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:43 PM

Again, likewise. However you are only partially right; I dislike the opinion, but it is not your opinion. I would explain, but it would be a waste of my time. You're happy with your gods.

Don't assume you know who anybody's "gods" are. Or how they form their opinions. That's arrogant. Some of us do more than search internet articles and forums for knowledge.

mookiemookie

11-14-11, 05:43 PM

Huh? This relates nothing to my post to you. I didn't insult you in any way. But I won't be shut down because people say I "kneel before the right". That doesn't work on me. I strongly oppose what I see doesn't work. And I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. Too bad that offends you. But it doesn't change anything from my side of things. People voice strong opinions.....that's the way it is.

To be perfectly frank, you express your opinion in an aggressive, combative, belittling and often times insulting way.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 05:45 PM

Don't assume you know who anybody's "gods" are. Or how they form their opinions. That's arrogant. Some of us do more than search internet articles and forums for knowledge.

Once again, likewise. Don't assume that since I am not you I cannot know what you are. It is written all over you.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:47 PM

To be perfectly frank, you express your opinion in an aggressive, combative, belittling and often times insulting way.

You know, I'm certain I could dig up some of your posts that show the same. You have made some pretty combative remarks regarding wall street executives, Republicans, people who attended Town Hall events, etc. I hope you won't make it easy for me and deny that.

August

11-14-11, 05:47 PM

All those pictures of protests in Italy, Spain, Toronto, Sydney, et. al. are all just photoshop jobs from the liberal media, right?

You do realize how foolish that sounds? Just dismissing a wall of sources as all biased liberal propaganda. Ooooooookaaaay, buddy.

The entire comparison is propaganda. Apples vs. oranges. The Tea Party is a domestic movement created about a single domestic issue. That has absolutely nothing to do with whatever they're protesting about in Madrid or Rome.

Y'know for a guy who complains so often about Team D vs Team R rivalry you sure seem eager to promote it.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 05:49 PM

Once again, likewise. Don't assume that since I am not you I cannot know what you are. It is written all over you.

You have no idea who I am or where I'm coming from.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 05:53 PM

You have no clue.

Really? I know the words of your gods, and I see them here. You recoil at the use of the term 'god', but it is an accurate one. You echo their phrases, their tactics, their lexicon. You emasculate their enemies. You go through great pains to promote their agenda, to secure their power. If that is not worship then what is?

I have you fingered, and that makes you angry. It should.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 06:01 PM

Really? I know the words of your gods, and I see them here. You recoil at the use of the term 'god', but it is an accurate one. You echo their phrases, their tactics, their lexicon. You emasculate their enemies. You go through great pains to promote their agenda, to secure their power. If that is not worship then what is?

I have you fingered, and that makes you angry. It should.

It doesn't make me angry. Because you don't know me. But I do see that you're now engaging in some heated rhetoric yourself, and getting real personal. That's quite telling and interesting in itself.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 06:03 PM

It doesn't make me angry. Because you don't know me. But I do see that you're now engaging in some heated rhetoric yourself, and getting real personal. That's quite telling and interesting in itself.

Not personal. Truthful. Also, what you do to others on this forum. Tell me if I am wrong.

Tribesman

11-14-11, 06:18 PM

The Tea Party is a domestic movement created about a single domestic issue.
The tea party is about numerous domestic issues which are often contradictory.

Don't assume you know who anybody's "gods" are. Or how they form their opinions.
On appearance your god is Beck and your opinions are direct from the chalkboard

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 06:40 PM

Not personal. Truthful. Also, what you do to others on this forum. Tell me if I am wrong.

What do I do to people on this forum??? With all due respect (Oh, I forgot, you don't want my respect and have none for me. :hmmm:), I am not alone in voicing strong opinions.

This exchange with you is quite fruitless. No offense intended. :O:

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 07:07 PM

Indeed, I know. I'm not sure you have any grasp of how economies are derived, maintained, and grown. And I'm quite certain you have no understanding how economies are hollowed out by spending what you don't have (borrowing to spend), and how actions taken to disincentivize innovation and investment wreak disaster.

Perhaps the most recent example. The polemic response to Ducimus also would count. I suspect that you already knew this. You make the presumptions about people, issue the label. Of course, you recoil when the same treatment is applied to you.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 07:40 PM

Perhaps the most recent example. The polemic response to Ducimus also would count. I suspect that you already knew this. You make the presumptions about people, issue the label. Of course, you recoil when the same treatment is applied to you.

Well, OK. After going back a page or two, I can admit that my comment to Ducimus was out of line. And as such, I would like to apologize to Ducimus for it.

I however do not think the comment you cite in the previous post was anything to harp on about. I stand by that one. That was a response to a line of questioning I found to be ludicrous.

JU_88

11-14-11, 07:41 PM

There are other views contrary to yours everywhere on this site. You're simply unteachable. You, by your words are set in your own paradigms.

Spoken like a true hypocryte and a coward.

Sea Demon

11-14-11, 07:50 PM

Spoken like a true hypocryte and a coward.

:stare: Swallow glass.

JU_88

11-14-11, 07:53 PM

:stare: Swallow glass.

To match your level of maturity -You can stick your glass where the sun dont shine.
Pop corn anyone? :O:

August

11-14-11, 07:54 PM

Not personal. Truthful. Also, what you do to others on this forum. Tell me if I am wrong.

I'll tell you that I find such personal attacks from a moderator to be somewhat disturbing and you seem to be making a habit of it.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 08:03 PM

I'll tell you that I find such personal attacks from a moderator to be somewhat disturbing and you seem to be making a habit of it.

When someone treats another on this forum with disrespect, I make a point to do the same to that individual in the hopes that they will learn something from the matter. After all, that respect is the most valuable of social currency. I offer no apologies, nor do I owe any. That you find this offensive is interesting.

August

11-14-11, 08:13 PM

When someone treats another on this forum with disrespect, I make a point to do the same to that individual in the hopes that they will learn something from the matter. After all, that respect is the most valuable of social currency. I offer no apologies, nor do I owe any. That you find this offensive is interesting.

I didn't say I found it offensive, I said I found it somewhat disturbing. And I hardly care to hear your apologies. I just expected a little better from a moderator.

Takeda Shingen

11-14-11, 08:19 PM

I didn't say I found it offensive, I said I found it somewhat disturbing. And I hardly care to hear your apologies. I just expected a little better from a moderator.

I find that discourse is far more effective as a long-term solution than corporal punishment. After all, it is the behavior, not the opinion, that must change. This preserves both freedom of idea and interpersonal respect. So, I mirror the behavior to the one who has issued the behavior. It is a much better way to get the point across, especially with long-time members who have no record of infraction and should know better.

August

11-14-11, 10:36 PM

I find that discourse is far more effective as a long-term solution than corporal punishment. After all, it is the behavior, not the opinion, that must change. This preserves both freedom of idea and interpersonal respect. So, I mirror the behavior to the one who has issued the behavior. It is a much better way to get the point across, especially with long-time members who have no record of infraction and should know better.

Quite scientifical. And here it looked to me like you had just picked a side in the debate.

Takeda Shingen

11-15-11, 12:13 AM

Quite scientifical. And here it looked to me like you had just picked a side in the debate.

My interest is the forum, not politics.

Tribesman

11-15-11, 02:43 AM

Swallow glass.
wow, what a plonker.

Reece

11-15-11, 05:10 AM

Yes I have to agree!:x

Platapus

11-15-11, 07:01 AM

Reece

11-15-11, 07:09 AM

Yes I have to agree!:x

(Stuck record)

Penguin

11-15-11, 07:36 AM

I don't know about the biases. I think the left in general is delusional. The facts are there have been murders, rapes, calls to violence, actual violence, drugs, public disruptions, overt racism, and vandalism at OWS events. We simply did not see any of that at Tea Party events. It's a fact....deal with it.

murders? rapes? In your links, there was one example of a rape by a guy with a criminal record who came there from out of state and had nothing to do with Occupy; the murder in CA was near an Occupy camp...
I don't doubt that there are ugly things that happened at OWS events, but exaggerating does not help. How do these events differ from any other gathering of a large group, or the Saturday night violence in a typical small town, with as many inhabitants as an Occupy rally has participants?

Oh, and weren't calls to violence and overt racism things that the Tea Party was accused of, or did I misinterpret the discussion on here and in the media? ;)

In addition, I actually attended both rallies in Sacramento. And the video I posted above with the OWS nutcase was pretty much par for the course at that OWS event. In my experience, it was nothing like the Tea Party at all. And it was nothing like the stupid clown cartoon posted above. About 90% of the people there were clowns, hippies, freaks, public rejects, and socialist nutjobs. Many did not look, sound, or act employable. There were hardly any normal, family types participating. Nice try though.

Have you been at a job rally or at Occupy? I did not know that people who participate in a demonstration have to act employable. It's interesting however that you can judge by a person's looks how good they work. It shows your narrow and idealized interpretation of "normal people".

The Occupy demonstrations here consisted to a majority of Fritz Sixpacks.
Take a look at this pic from a German Occupy demonstration:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3389/topteasercrop27470468.jpg

The only people dressed up like clowns are the mom and pop in the front... :D

Takeda Shingen

11-15-11, 08:28 AM

Jimbuna

11-15-11, 08:32 AM

Yes.

Agreed but I suspect there will be an update in a day or two.

Tribesman

11-15-11, 08:52 AM

murders? rapes? In your links, there was one example of a rape by a guy with a criminal record who came there from out of state and had nothing to do with Occupy; the murder in CA was near an Occupy camp...
I don't doubt that there are ugly things that happened at OWS events, but exaggerating does not help. How do these events differ from any other gathering of a large group, or the Saturday night violence in a typical small town, with as many inhabitants as an Occupy rally has participants?

As an example the mainstream media are hollering on about "almost half a dozen" reported alledged incidents, that is in several weeks nationwide in events involving a huge number of people with an even larger number on the periphery.
Almost half a dozen is a big way of saying 5 isn't it.
For comparison take town two years ago on Plate day, a fairly large crowd for the racing in one town on one day, 6 reported incidents(which is a full half dozen not almost a half dozen) though by lunchtime on Ladies day 4 of those 6 reports had already been a "******* complete waste of my ****** time by stupid lying *******" according to the sergeant who was posted for special duties with sex crime victims(she was not a happy bunny being jerked around like that on such serious issues).
So the almost 6 reports Faux news is ranting about and its fanboys are echoing does seem to be a pretty bloody insignificant occurance on the scale of things.

Have you been at a job rally or at Occupy? I did not know that people who participate in a demonstration have to act employable. It's interesting however that you can judge by a person's looks how good they work. It shows your narrow and idealized interpretation of "normal people".

The Occupy demonstrations here consisted to a majority of Fritz Sixpacks.
Take a look at this pic from a German Occupy demonstration:

Just cycled past the local Occupy on the way back from the beach, seems to be mainly pensioners down there.
Apparently in a blow to local business they have agreed to move their camp to the other side of the square to facilitate the Christmas market

August

11-15-11, 10:22 AM

murders? rapes? In your links, there was one example of a rape by a guy with a criminal record who came there from out of state and had nothing to do with Occupy; the murder in CA was near an Occupy camp

They do happen with a fair amount of regularity:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/nyregion/at-occupy-wall-street-protest-rising-concern-about-crime.html

mookiemookie

11-15-11, 10:25 AM

Murders? Rapes? Clearly this means that we should not reinstate Glass Steagall.

soopaman2

11-15-11, 10:29 AM

http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

14 points of fascism, our country diplays most of them.

But lets continue to protect the status quo. As it is working out so great, right guys?:woot:

August

11-15-11, 10:39 AM

http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

14 points of fascism, our country diplays most of them.

But lets continue to protect the status quo. As it is working out so great, right guys?:woot:

It works better than anywhere else in the planet so far. Over 200 years in the present form of government, 150 years since our last civil war. Yeah I'd say we have a pretty good thing going here in our country.

Why do you favor turning us into another Balkans?

mookiemookie

11-15-11, 10:42 AM

It works better than anywhere else in the planet so far. Over 200 years in the present form of government, 150 years since our last civil war. Yeah I'd say we have a pretty good thing going here in our country. But that's not what he's saying. He's saying this form of government that's worked so well for 200 years is turning into fascism.

soopaman2

11-15-11, 10:43 AM

It works better than anywhere else in the planet so far. Over 200 years in the present form of government, 150 years since our last civil war. Yeah I'd say we have a pretty good thing going here in our country.

Why do you favor turning us into another Balkans?

So you agree with everything on that list is right and just?

Balkans huh?, please (respectfully) explain.:)

August

11-15-11, 12:13 PM

So you agree with everything on that list is right and just?

No I don't. Nor do I agree with your belief that we display most of them.

Balkans huh?, please (respectfully) explain.:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization

soopaman2

11-15-11, 12:29 PM

No I don't. Nor do I agree with your belief that we display most of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization

I believe we do display most of them. Corporate cronyism, police state/ lots of people in prison. Scapegoating (mexicans). Avid militarism, deny that? National security obcession? No? Ruling elite and religion tied together? No, repubs don't pull that card? Corporate power protected over the interests of citizens...No not that either. Fraudulent elections, 2000 ring a bell? Supreme court decided who was president, so much for separation of powers...

The only one we do not outright display amongst them is the inequality towards women, at least we are able to hide it.

Where do you buy your glasses from, I would love to see the world as you do. Would be so much easier to ignore the inequality.

And didn't you yell at me for using wikipedia to put some background on Friedrich Von Steuben? Yet you gladly use it here. I guess that rule only applies to new guys huh?

I guess wikipedia is only valid when you think it is right?

I know you enjoy disagreeingwith me, but that list reeks of the US as it is today.

August

11-15-11, 12:33 PM

Where do you buy your glasses from, I would love to see the world as you do. Would be so much easier to ignore the inequality.

Feel free to emigrate to the better nation of your choice.

And didn't you yell at me for using wikipedia to put some background on Friedrich Von Steuben? Yet you gladly use it here. I guess that rule only applies to new guys huh?

I guess wikipedia is only valid when you think it is right?

Don't whine. I didn't "yell" at you. You asked for a definition. I gave you one and now you don't like it. Too bad for you.

soopaman2

11-15-11, 12:36 PM

Feel free to emigrate to the better nation of your choice.

Don't whine. I didn't "yell" at you. You asked for a definition. I gave you one and now you don't like it. Too bad for you.

No I will fight to change my nation for the better, who the hell are you to tell me to leave? I am not a bend over and take it kinda guy, sorry bro.

And you still didn't answer why wikipedia is valid for you and not me, though i get what you were saying, and do not see the USA as culturally and religiously conflicted as the Balkans are.
Not that I didn't like it, I disagree outright.

No malice August, If everyone agreed with me, life would be dull:DL

August

11-15-11, 12:46 PM

No I will fight to change my nation for the better, who the hell are you to tell me to leave?

Here you go again attempting to redefine what I said into something I didn't say. I didn't actually tell you to do anything. I only suggested a course of action you might consider taking in order to avoid having to live under such horrible oppression any longer.

And you still didn't answer why wikipedia is valid for you and not me

I never said it was. If you'll go back to the post in question you'll note that I only commented on how there are those who will not accept a wiki reference without giving you a hard time about it, just as you seem bent on doing here.

Ducimus

11-15-11, 12:50 PM

We are up to 670 posts in this thread and I can't remember the last post here that really added anything to the original discussion.

Is this an indication that this thread has lived past its prime and should be allowed to die?

Yup. Which was one of the reasons why I posted this:

http://www.ducimus.net/temp/politics.jpg
Illustration: How politics is discussed; at the very least here on subsim General Topics, at worst, the entire US at large.

This is how political topics always end up. Any semblance to a discussion ended awhile ago. Now it's just a competition to get the last word in.

soopaman2

11-15-11, 01:00 PM

Here you go again attempting to redefine what I said into something I didn't say. I didn't actually tell you to do anything. I only suggested a course of action you might consider taking in order to avoid having to live under such horrible oppression any longer.

I never said it was. If you'll go back to the post in question you'll note that I only commented on how there are those who will not accept a wiki reference without giving you a hard time about it, just as you seem bent on doing here.

The reason I love my country is because it is a right of mine to speak against the establishment with no fear of prosecution.

That does separate us from a fascist regime.:)

I wasn't saying we are there, just that we are starting to show the symptoms.

You kinda used peoples aversion to wikipedia to discount my point, which is why I brought it up in this case.
I am not bent on nothing, I do not derive pleasure from berating people I generally like and respect on messageboards. My duty is to my wife and family, and no one else. I see the future of my children being threatened by greed. I care, yes I do. And I want them to have as good a future as I can ensure, and will fight hard to give them that. I am not about myself.:)

I see your point on discounting wikipedia, something rubs me wrong about 15 year old moderators discounting experts. (that tends to happen) And seedy sources not being vetted.

I don't want to tick you off August with constant responses, as I said before to you, we are not far off on whats wrong here. I am simply defending my point of view.

Jimbuna

11-15-11, 01:31 PM

My apologies but I thought this worth posting....

Occupy Wall Street: New York police clear Zuccotti Park

New York police have dismantled the Occupy Wall Street camp in Zuccotti Park and arrested about 200 people following a raid in the early hours.
Protesters were ordered to leave at about 01:00 (06:00 GMT), before police began removing tents and property.
The New York camp was set up in September to protest against economic inequality - it inspired similar demonstrations around the world.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15732661

Tribesman

11-15-11, 01:33 PM

They do happen with a fair amount of regularity:

Regularity????? 2 allegations about one individual and another allegation about a registered nonce thousands of miles away.
If the doctor asked if you were regular I suppose saying you had a dump two months ago would be an affirmative response in Augusts world of wierdness:doh:

CaptainHaplo

11-15-11, 01:53 PM

Fraudulent elections, 2000 ring a bell? Supreme court decided who was president, so much for separation of powers...

Seriously - do a little research once in a while....

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

soopaman2

11-15-11, 01:57 PM

Seriously - do a little research once in a while....

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

Yes I voted for Bush that year, just found my faith in Majority rules elections shattered at that time thank you.

Beginning of my skepticism in our government.

But yeah that surely invalidates anything else I said right?!one!!!

you got me mistaken for a partisan I thinks..

Takeda Shingen

11-15-11, 02:14 PM

Yes I voted for Bush that year, just found my faith in Majority rules elections shattered at that time thank you.

Beginning of my skepticism in our government.

But yeah that surely invalidates anything else I said right?!one!!!

you got me mistaken for a partisan I thinks..

I voted for George Bush. Twice. I also voted for Barack Obama. I'm thinking that I just won't vote this next time.

Betonov

11-15-11, 02:16 PM

Balkanizing the US ???

Pha, you wish, It would take you a 1000 years just to learn to cook that good

Hottentot

11-15-11, 02:23 PM

Pha, you wish, It would take you a 1000 years just to learn to cook that good

The man speaks the truth. Next time I'm in that region, I'll take an empty piece of luggage with me just to fill it with sausage.

propagandahatespeechmememerightwrongleftrightwingw ingwing

Betonov

11-15-11, 02:29 PM

The man speaks the truth. Next time I'm in that region, I'll take an empty piece of luggage with me just to fill it with sausage.

Forget the sausages, just take the entire roasted hog aka the odojek :Kaleun_Salivating:

Hottentot

11-15-11, 02:32 PM

You think I have enough self-discipline to save it until I'm home?

Betonov

11-15-11, 02:36 PM

You think I have enough self-discipline to save it until I'm home?

Take more than one :03:

C'mon Hottentot, lets derail this thread with food :D

http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/May2008/60139615.jpg

Penguin

11-15-11, 02:49 PM

Balkanizing the US ???

Pha, you wish, It would take you a 1000 years just to learn to cook that good

The wise and advanced Germans already have a party, the Anarchist Pogo Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Pogo_Party_of_Germany) which has the balkanization of Germany as one of its central demands. :know:

Betonov

11-15-11, 02:52 PM

The wise and advanced Germans already have a party, the Anarchist Pogo Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Pogo_Party_of_Germany) which has the balkanization of Germany as one of its central demands. :know:

And that concludes our WTF moment of the day :doh:

soopaman2

11-15-11, 02:56 PM

I voted for George Bush. Twice. I also voted for Barack Obama. I'm thinking that I just won't vote this next time.

That is me as well. Hence all my past jokes here about voting for lady Gaga.

Take more than one :03:

C'mon Hottentot, lets derail this thread with food :D

http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/May2008/60139615.jpg

Trust me, Americans know about roasting a pig and BBQ, you would be quite impressed with some of our cooking. We do eat more meat per capita, ya know?:O:

That pic has me so hungry, i will take a cut of bacon, and a few ribs please.

Penguin

11-15-11, 02:59 PM

And that concludes our WTF moment of the day :doh:

Don't worry, I never voted for them. My political agenda is the Vegetarization of the Balkans! :O: mmmhh, veggie Cevapcici!

Betonov

11-15-11, 03:00 PM

Trust me, Americans know about roasting a pig and BBQ, you would be quite impressed with some of our cooking. We do eat more meat per capita, ya know?:O:

Of course you do, 100 000's of immigrants from the Balkans went to America and brought with them the secrets of BBQ and grill :03:

:O: mmmhh, veggie Cevapcici!

BLASPHEMY :x :O:

Penguin

11-15-11, 03:14 PM

Trust me, Americans know about roasting a pig and BBQ, you would be quite impressed with some of our cooking. We do eat more meat per capita, ya know?:O:

:hmmm: according to this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/meat-consumption-per-capita-climate-change) statistics you are behind Denmark, New Zealand and Cyprus - you're only near the top because you guys count McD's as meat :O:

love your veggie turkey though - also in the form of soda from Jones
(double blasphemy points for me! :DL)

Jimbuna

11-15-11, 03:16 PM

We Brits know a thing or two about BBQ's also

http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-04-07/tn_hotdogcookers.jpg (http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-04-07/hotdogcookers.jpg)

August

11-15-11, 03:35 PM

Balkanizing the US ???

Pha, you wish, It would take you a 1000 years just to learn to cook that good

Our food is every bit as good as anyones because being a nation of immigrants we are everyone. If you don't believe me then c'mon over and i'll prove it.

soopaman2

11-15-11, 03:35 PM

:hmmm: according to this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/meat-consumption-per-capita-climate-change) statistics you are behind Denmark, New Zealand and Cyprus - you're only near the top because you guys count McD's as meat :O:

love your veggie turkey though - also in the form of soda from Jones
(double blasphemy points for me! :DL)

I have a personal recipe for roasting whole hog. I use Cherrywood, and mesquite, and slow cook it with the hog open. Before cooking I apply a mollasses, rosemary, salt, (and some secret ingredients) rub to it. I also like to inject the hocks with a worcester/honey/finely ground peppercorn mix.

I like to lay some of the trimmings from the carcass, over the ribs while cooking to help maintain moisture, and to let the fat soak into the meat as well. (fat equals flavor)

I know my pig:D
Also I refuse fast food. I would rather eat Ramen noodles and bread.:D

Eww, turkey based anything (besides turkey) is GROSS.:D

August

11-15-11, 03:35 PM

August

11-15-11, 03:37 PM

Eww, turkey based anything (besides turkey) is GROSS.:D

It's purly sinful but i've been wanting to try one of these:

Turducken
http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/turducken-thumb.jpg

Penguin

11-15-11, 03:40 PM

Isn't Jones soda from Canada?

It used to be from BC, but they moved to Seattle. I don't know if they already manufactured the Thanksgiving special sodas when they were based in Canada.

lol at the turducken, reminds me of stuffed camel (http://www.food.com/recipe/whole-stuffed-camel-67495)

August

11-15-11, 03:42 PM

It used to be from BC, but they moved to Seattle. I don't know if they already manufactured the Thanksgiving special sodas when they were based in Canada.

Oh yeah I saw those but just couldn't bring myself to buy gravy flavored soda. Did you try some? How was it?

soopaman2

11-15-11, 03:42 PM

It's purly sinful but i've been wanting to try one of these:

Turducken
http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/turducken-thumb.jpg

But thats real turkey, in its whole glory.

Not ground and processed to look like another meat. (turkey bacon, and turkey burgers)

After further review, the ruling on the field stands.
Turduckin is a valid meat, the offense will be charged a timeout.:D

Dig in!

Penguin

11-15-11, 03:57 PM

Oh yeah I saw those but just couldn't bring myself to buy gravy flavored soda. Did you try some? How was it?

Well, the turkey was disgusting, very salty - can't say how much it tastes like real turkey, haven't had one since 2 decades; others said the taste was alike. The broccoli was also horrible. The mashed potatoes soda was pretty good though, same with the pekan pie and the berry one (lingonberry?).

One good thing about the thanksgiving pack is that they donate the money to cancer research.

August

11-15-11, 04:06 PM

...and the berry one (lingonberry?).

Cranberry i'd think as that's traditional.

One good thing about the thanksgiving pack is that they donate the money to cancer research.

I now have a reason to pick up a 6 pack. Thanks! :salute:

mookiemookie

11-15-11, 04:07 PM

I now have a reason to pick up a 6 pack. Thanks! :salute:

We'll be awaiting your tasting results. Better you than me.

I suppose you could make your own gravy soda. Just mix up some club soda and gravy mix.

Betonov

11-15-11, 04:10 PM

If you don't believe me then c'mon over and i'll prove it.

I'll hold on to that promise. I'll come as soon as some logistical issues are taken care of (khm, money for trip) :O:

Jimbuna

11-15-11, 04:23 PM

I'll hold on to that promise. I'll come as soon as some logistical issues are taken care of (khm, money for trip) :O:

Upgrade to an IX boat and you'll make it no problem :03:

Penguin

11-15-11, 04:48 PM

Upgrade to an IX boat and you'll make it no problem :03:

I heard Betonov builds one from fiberglass at his work, to surprise us at the next subsim meet. I'll make some gallons "U-boot Spezial" drink. :D

soopaman2

11-15-11, 05:00 PM

I heard Betonov builds one from fiberglass at his work, to surprise us at the next subsim meet. I'll make some gallons "U-boot Spezial" drink. :D

Just as long as he brings some of the Balkan BBQ with him. Where ancient Ottomans and Europeans collide is where the good cooking come from, right?:)

Turmoil brings about perfection, as my USMC cousin likes to say.

Penguin

11-15-11, 05:11 PM

Turmoil brings about perfection, as my USMC cousin likes to say.

Yep, that's why we deliberately lost WW2: to invent the Currywurst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currywurst) :03:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6065/currywurst2.jpg

(also available with soy-meat :O:)

Hottentot

11-16-11, 01:46 AM

This thread has become much more interesting since yesterday. Especially when I haven't had a breakfast yet. :up:

gimpy117

11-16-11, 03:46 AM

It's purly sinful but i've been wanting to try one of these:

Turducken
http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/turducken-thumb.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xc5wIpUenQ

enjoy

JU_88

11-16-11, 04:11 AM

Our food is every bit as good as anyones because being a nation of immigrants we are everyone. If you don't believe me then c'mon over and i'll prove it.

From my short visit to the US (NewYork) back in 2000, I experienced two things America seemed to do very well on -regarding food,
1) Generous portions (good value for money)
2) Outstanding levels of Customer service in bars and resturants - (I think the tipping system has a lot to do with that ;))

And that was just 3 days in NYC, I can only imagine its even better in other parts of the country.
I'd love to go back to the states for a visit at some point. maybe some where on the west coast next time....

joegrundman

11-16-11, 04:12 AM

Cuisine surely knows no higher achievement than.....

Boodog

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/alesi/18pLrsuZdwfjDb0Ijeb1ztoSvp339AIzIuhh2H3GmlhdaT1dvH dAuoKamkQ6/boodog.jpg

Boodog is also a traditional Mongolian meat dish. It is usually made of borlon, a 2-year old goat, cooked with hot stones put inside of it. Therefore, boodog is a group meal, which is very popular in camping and outdoor activities. It is usually for at least 5-6 servings. Boodog cooking also involves a lot of fun and friendship; however, it requires far more artistry and practice than horhog cooking. A goat is filled with preheated hot stones and is tightly sealed. The skin is usually left on. The meat is cooked from inside by hot stones. Simultaneously, the meat is heated from outside with a gas burner to remove hair and roast the meat. This process must be handled with care and expertise. The temperature of stones and the amount of heat from outside must be well balanced and regulated. Otherwise, a lot of pressurized vapor will accumulate inside the meat and the whole package may blow up. When the cooking is done, the stones are taken out first and given to all boodog eaters. While still hot and greasy, stones should be rolled between palms or held with fingers to eliminate fatigue and boost stamina. A hearty stew is usually formed inside the goat. It is separated from the meat and put in a pot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCwoCoKXuE