Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested

[August]

Ignore it, just more daddys basement filthy pinko liberals who don't know what's best for them. Gordon Gekko capitalism is great.

I mean, if it was 2 people with signs I could understand everyone discounting it.

Multiple cities in the USA and overseas? Ah, it's nothing, Lets just keep privatizing the profits, and socializing the losses, then turn around and call the other side communist when they get mad at corporate welfare.

Use your brains, dont let your favorite news source make up your minds for you. Don't let your favorite political party do it either. They are into self preservation and do not represent you.

I don't think Steed was looking for a lecture on what to do. He was just saying they'd spread to Europe.

[soopaman2]

I don't think Steed was looking for a lecture on what to do. He was just saying they'd spread to Europe.


Whats your point besides to poke at me, did I unwittingly hit a nerve?

[August]

Whats your point besides to poke at me, did I unwittingly hit a nerve?

Gee you're kind of touchy Dude.

[soopaman2]

Gee you're kind of touchy Dude.



I took your post as condescending, this is serious to some folks...Alot of folks now.

No malice bro.

[JU_88]

I took your post as condescending, this is serious to some folks...Alot of folks now.

No malice bro.

Its serious to everyone, even to those who ridicule it, and pretty soon ignoring it will no longer be an option either.

[soopaman2]

Its serious to everyone, even to those who ridicule it, and pretty soon ignoring it will no longer be an option either.


I just saw the pictures from Romes version.

Not as nice as the Americans...:yeah:

[Jimbuna]

They're kicking off in London too:


Up to 3,000 people are demonstrating in London's financial district as part of a worldwide protest against alleged corporate greed.
Demonstrators inspired by the Occupy Wall Street movement are protesting outside St Paul's Cathedral.
Scotland Yard said three people had been arrested.
Organisers were aiming to set up a protest camp outside the London Stock Exchange in Paternoster Square in the City, but were prevented by the police.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15322134

[JU_88]

Its gone global.

[Armistead]

The problem is not Wall Street, it's what they're allowed to do through government officials. Obama is the bail out king, maybe they should protest him.

[Jimbuna]

That may yet come at the next election seeing how this issue is gathering momentum at such a rapid pace.

[JU_88]

The problem is not Wall Street, it's what they're allowed to do through government officials. Obama is the bail out king, maybe they should protest him.

The problem is not any one politican or party - they all prop up the banks, Bush, Obama - the lot of them.
If we could simpley vote the bad guys out via our democracy - we would not be seeing these protests.
The Banks have created this mess, and our politicans have supported them.
What we are seeing now goes way WAY beyond the usual left vs right BS, that is just a silly side show.
This is the people vs bankers and a request to our leaders that they reconsider their priorities.

[Jimbuna]

The problem is not any one politican or party - they all prop up the banks, Bush, Obama - the lot of them.
If we could simpley vote the bad guys out via our democracy - we would not be seeing these protests.
The Banks have created this mess, and our politicans have supported them.
What we are seeing now goes way WAY beyond the usual left vs right BS, that is just a silly side show.
This is the people vs bankers and a request to our leaders that they reconsider their priorities.

Agreed...and it may well be the perceived arrogance of some governments who appear not to be listening which will fan the flames of those who are protesting.

[Platapus]

Its serious to everyone, even to those who ridicule it, and pretty soon ignoring it will no longer be an option either.

Serious to everyone? You have polled everyone?

I don't have a problem ignoring it.

I applaud their right to protest just like I applaud other people's right to ignore them.

[Agiel7]

I'm pretty much ambivalent to the OWS protesters. I will say that some storms you just have to ride out and a good portion of Washington is doing what they can (granted, it has its share of crooks); as for "austerity measures," more times than not the right decision isn't the popular decision.

I think the really awful thing is people like Glenn Beck associating them with Robespierre and Marat.

Right... a bunch of bong-smoking college students and granola girls in the shape of radical 18th century demagogues...

[Jimbuna]

Right... a bunch of bong-smoking college students and granola girls in the shape of radical 18th century demagogues...

NO!!....it's now gone way beyond that.

This is turning globasl and the 'have nots' want a little of what the 'haves' have.

The working class (to coin a phrase) appear to have had enough of taking on the lions share of the economic burdon.

I'll get my coat.

[Oberon]

This is definitely something that is not going to go away, particularly not in the age of the internet, people can get organised now on a global scale, not just in counties/states or villages. It's no longer a case of gathering supports from nearby towns, you can gather supporters from across the nation, from across the globe. Sure, it's not exactly a October Revolution, but it's a warning signal that those in power would do well to listen to.

Alas, I suspect they will continue ignoring it and thus the snowball will continue to roll down the snow covered hill...

[yubba]

I feel for you folks on the east side of the pond, you are in some dire straights, I see Rome is burning, and people have turn to violence instead of solution. This is what our government is waiting for, but a Kent state event hasn't arised, due to the absence of Tea Party partisapaicion, the Democrats have jumped the gun by showing some support to the occupiers, so it wouldn't do well by gunning down the only supporters they have. The Tea Party has done well, by avoiding this issue, we will do our protesting at the ballot box, which you euro folk don't have the luxury of, my prayers go out to you, and hope you fair well with this bump in the road. If you folks resort to violence they will destroy you, that's what they are waiting for, that's what they want. If you want to know who they are, they are the ones that wants God out of your life, and if they don't stand with Israel they don't stand with you.

[MothBalls]

<puts on a tin foil hat>

First it was Arab Spring, now it's Western Fall. This may be the beginning of the end. I say this jokingly, but, it's pretty clear that almost everyone in the world is pretty fed up with the way things are heading. I'm sure some are wondering if this really is the small beginning of something much larger.

<takes off the hat>

Crap, looks like the US spread its crapola around the world again. <bows and shakes head in shame> Is there anything else we can screw up from here?

[Torplexed]

<puts on a tin foil hat>

First it was Arab Spring, now it's Western Fall.

To be followed by the Winter of our Discontent, Dismay and Dissolution.

And to make matters worse they cancelled the new Charlie's Angels. Those corporate scum. :damn:

[August]

To be followed by the Winter of our Discontent, Dismay and Dissolution.

And to make matters worse they cancelled the new Charlie's Angels. Those corporate scum. :damn:


They did? That's it! Time to bring back Madame Guillotine...

http://ms-brown.wikispaces.com/file/view/1-15--guillotine.jpg/167791865/1-15--guillotine.jpg

[1480]

And I will be dealing with these unwashed masses in May as G8 and NATO come to Chi-town.....at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uE2M7g_IWSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrTJb5IR1ro&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQVhTU_grrc&feature=player_embedded

[August]

And I will be dealing with these unwashed masses in May as G8 and NATO come to Chi-town.....at the same time.

Oh man you'll probably encounter the black hood brigade trying to smash the place up. Stay safe Brother.

[Torplexed]

They did? That's it! Time to bring back Madame Guillotine...



If she's played by Minka Kelly....cool. :cool:

http://entimg.s-msn.com/i/150/Movies/Actors6/Minka_sd1079547_150x200.jpg

[mookiemookie]

we will do our protesting at the ballot box, which you euro folk don't have the luxury of

Sometimes you start to type a response and then you're just like, "screw it, what's the point?"

Wow. Just wow.

[Torplexed]

This is what our government is waiting for, but a Kent state event hasn't arised, due to the absence of Tea Party partisapaicion,

You gotta be sipping more than tea to spell 'participation' like that. ;)

[1480]

Oh man you'll probably encounter the black hood brigade trying to smash the place up. Stay safe Brother.

Thanks Brother. We dealt with them with the war protests, a bunch of savages....

[krashkart]

Crap, looks like the US spread its crapola around the world again. <bows and shakes head in shame> Is there anything else we can screw up from here?

Uganda. :yep:

[1480]

Uganda. :yep:

How about Mexico.....:damn:

[August]

If she's played by Minka Kelly....cool. :cool:

How much does she make? Big money earners is what the mob wants to feed on.

[Torplexed]

How much does she make?

Not much now. They cancelled her show (Charlie's Angels) so I assume she's one of the unemployed masses until the next gig.

[yubba]

Well if you follow your beliefs you should get me a new machine that has spell check, in the interest of social justice and fairness, it took me five minutes to get that I figured some one would come along and try to put me down, but thanks for the spell check now I can go back and correct it, so how do you like your little revolution, not what you expected is it. You better get right with God and figure out who you are . I want too get this out to the Tea Party Folk stay out of this fray take care of your selves and others, this is the Liberals problem and I want too see how they handle it.. Oh by the way I'm an Honorably Discharged U.S. Marine I don't have to make sense, nor do I worry about it, I know who I am and where I stand. Semper Fi

[1480]

God bless you for your service :salute:.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/man-arrested-twitter-g20-us

http://biggovernment.com/thomasryan/2011/10/14/the-email-archive-of-the-occupywallstreet-movement-anarchists-socialists-jihadists-unions-democrats/

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks Brother. We dealt with them with the war protests, a bunch of savages....
Which war protests would that be?

[Tribesman]

Oh by the way I'm an Honorably Discharged U.S. Marine
Did you get a really bad bang on the head in service or were they recruiting straight from the asylum to make up numbers?
I know who I am and where I stand.
Yubba you are so confused you probably don't know that this is planet earth you are standing on.

we will do our protesting at the ballot box, which you euro folk don't have the luxury of

You are so right, I wish europe would introduce elections, it must be such a luxury to choose between a couple of idiots.

[Jimbuna]

we will do our protesting at the ballot box, which you euro folk don't have the luxury of,

Care to back up that riciculous statement?

Sometimes you start to type a response and then you're just like, "screw it, what's the point?"

Wow. Just wow.

Rgr that.



You are so right, I wish europe would introduce elections, it must be such a luxury to choose between a couple of idiots.

Elections?....I've just been informed that's a 'luxury' us 'Euro folk' are being denied!!

[antikristuseke]

So the presidential elections a few months back here were all just an elaborate fraud?

[Oberon]

So the presidential elections a few months back here were all just an elaborate fraud?

They usually are. :yep:

[Tribesman]

Care to back up that riciculous statement?

Forget that, I would be amazed if he could explain how any part of that post could possibly make any sense at all.
It must mean something, after all it has words and everything, but in all honesty they do just seem to be some random words thrown together.
Is yubba really a room full of monkeys hitting the keyboards as an experiment to write the works of Shakespear?...it would seem the more logical explanation

[yubba]

Gee it's almost sounds like you guys never heard of voting, it's like you can't remember 2010. I know your in denial, I know it must be awful that your dreams of a Socalist Republic here in America has been dashed, so sorry, but there's more of us god fearing, America loving folks than the commie nerds that are protesting in the streets and we will prove that at the polls, so if you want to be a commie might I suggest you move to Cuba I hear that they started flying there, good luck getting the internet there, give me a call and tell me how that works out for you.. Herman Cain will fix this vote Cain

[Tribesman]

^Definately a room full of monkeys

[antikristuseke]

Gee it's almost sounds like you guys never heard of voting, it's like you can't remember 2010. I know your in denial, I know it must be awful that your dreams of a Socalist Republic here in America has been dashed, so sorry, but there's more of us god fearing, America loving folks than the commie nerds that are protesting in the streets and we will prove that at the polls, so if you want to be a commie might I suggest you move to Cuba I hear that they started flying there, good luck getting the internet there. Herman Cain will fix this vote Cain

Is your world view black and white as it appears to be or does it come in technicolour?

[Gerald]

Protesters torched cars, smashed bank windows and attacked a church.Rome is counting the cost of its worst violence in years, which erupted on a day of global protests over austerity and banking practices.Hundreds of hooded protesters in Italy's capital torched cars, smashed bank windows and attacked a church.Saturday's protests affected 950 cities across 80 countries.The protests started in New York as "Occupy Wall Street" a month ago and on Saturday there were 70 arrests there during a march on Times Square.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15326561

Note: Update record,16 October 2011 Last updated at 10:56 GMT

[Betonov]

We'll to clarify some ''statements'' made in this thread, we in the EU, we even in the Balkans know what elections are and we will have ours in december :know:

We know what elections are since WWI. While a true multiparty republic came to being in 1991, mayors and other representatives were elected by public vote loooong before that

[soopaman2]

yubba.

Keep up the good work, you are a more than adequate representative of the average conservative voter.:salute:

Cuba sucks, I am as American as you. I wash and live on my own too. I have a job and a basement that no one sleeps in. Not all of them are pinko commies, this isn't the 60's McCarthy.

Be nice to my brothers. Remember the French Revolution?:D

I will vote for Cain though, for now that is.

[Tribesman]

Keep up the good work, you are a more than adequate representative of the average conservative voter.
Was there any need to be that insulting?
I suggest that you apologise to the average conservative voters.

We'll to clarify some ''statements''
Is there any need for clarification? It woulkd be a fair guess that an as yet undiscovered tribe living in Papua New Guinea would get it even if they didn't know what an election was or where Europe is or even how to read what was written.

[soopaman2]

Was there any need to be that insulting?
I suggest that you apologise to the average conservative voters.


Is there any need for clarification? It woulkd be a fair guess that an as yet undiscovered tribe living in Papua New Guinea would get it even if they didn't know what an election was or where Europe is or even how to read what was written.


I do apologize. I am a huge fan of all humankind.

I almost tried to describe to him what a parliamentiary political type system is, or a how a constitutional monarchy works...But ya know...
You don't blow your nose on Supermans cap, you don't spit into the wind.

Sometimes Nature is a beautiful (and generally amusing) thing if you leave it be.

[Torplexed]

Is there any need for clarification? It woulkd be a fair guess that an as yet undiscovered tribe living in Papua New Guinea would get it even if they didn't know what an election was or where Europe is or even how to read what was written.

Yubba probably thinks Papua New Guinea is in Europe. "It's one of dem ferrin' contrys ain't it?"

[yubba]

The French revolution sucked, the question is, if we win these elections are these folks that are in power, going to heed the wishes of the people, I don't think they are going to give up anything without a fight and that's scary. This administration is tearing this country apart, in the soul purpose to start a revolution, to start violence in the street, so they can crack down with martial law, this is the only way they can stay in power, what happen is the left couldn't wait they jumped the gun, and showed us who they are, thank god the Tea Party folk have laid back and not entered the fray, the lefts nightmare has come true they have their army on the street, and have an enemy they can't see, it must be unnerving too them, hats off to the silent majority, for you would make fine sub skippers. Now I've heard of a room full of monkeys trying to type fine works a couple of times in here, now is this the same room full of monkeys that typed out Obama care, and his new jobs bill that he is so proud of. :haha::haha:

[1480]

Which war protests would that be?

2003, when we lost LSD.....

[CaptainHaplo]

Gentlemen....

Lets not be insulting. While I am on the same side of the fence as yubba (obviously a bit closer to the fence...), there is no need to make fun of him.

He stuck his foot in his mouth regarding elections in europe. We all know it. It's been pointed out. Lets move on to the topic instead of avoiding it.

The issue with the OWS movement is that, unlike the Tea Party, it lacks a directed purpose. Some protesting are against "greed" - they disagree with TARP and other bailouts (which so does the Tea Party), others disagree with capitalism entirely. Some want serious tax reform, others call for revolution and an overthrow of the entire system. Some advocate peace, while others encourage and partake in violence.

Until the movement can stand as one and say "this is where the issue is, and this is the solution we want to see" without the solution being a violent end to the society that has been built in this nation - they will be seen as a fringe group - regardless of how the mainstream media wishes to portray them.

For those that doubt this - there is a historical precedent. Richard Nixon was re-elected in a landslide while there was a fervent, vocal and very publicized anti-war and anti-government movement. Yet, the "silent majority" spoke clearly, 47 states went Nixon's way. While some of his actions as president are worthy of scorn and derision, the example in this regard stands.

The vast majority of the country is not willing to see the entire system torn down - violently or otherwise. Until real platforms for significant and REASONABLE change comes from the OWS movement, they will remain a fringe.

[antikristuseke]

The French revolution sucked, the question is, if we win these elections are these folks that are in power, going to heed the wishes of the people, I don't think they are going to give up anything without a fight and that's scary. This administration is tearing this country apart, in the soul purpose to start a revolution, to start violence in the street, so they can crack down with martial law, this is the only way they can stay in power, what happen is the left couldn't wait they jumped the gun, and showed us who they are, thank god the Tea Party folk have laid back and not entered the fray, the lefts nightmare has come true they have their army on the street, and have an enemy they can't see, it must be unnerving too them, hats off to the silent majority, for you would make fine sub skippers. Now I've heard of a room full of monkeys trying to type fine works a couple of times in here, now is this the same room full of monkeys that typed out Obama care, and his new jobs bill that he is so proud of. :haha::haha:

What the hell are you talking about?:o

[soopaman2]

The French revolution sucked, the question is, if we win these elections are these folks that are in power, going to heed the wishes of the people, I don't think they are going to give up anything without a fight and that's scary. This administration is tearing this country apart, in the soul purpose to start a revolution, to start violence in the street, so they can crack down with martial law, this is the only way they can stay in power, what happen is the left couldn't wait they jumped the gun, and showed us who they are, thank god the Tea Party folk have laid back and not entered the fray, the lefts nightmare has come true they have their army on the street, and have an enemy they can't see, it must be unnerving too them, hats off to the silent majority, for you would make fine sub skippers. Now I've heard of a room full of monkeys trying to type fine works a couple of times in here, now is this the same room full of monkeys that typed out Obama care, and his new jobs bill that he is so proud of. :haha::haha:


I am going to gratify you with a response. I like your passion even if we generally disagree.

This is not a partisan movement. Alot of the views seem that way thanks to the systematic destruction of our government, starting back with Reagan, and "his trickle down bull-mess" aka supply side economics.
The abolishment of Glass-Steagall : Via wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

The repeal of provisions of the Glass***8211;Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm***8211;Leach***8211;Bliley Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act) effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_banking) which issued securities and commercial banks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_banks) which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks.

3 republicans did this...Think about what that means for a minute. Seriously...

"removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks."
And we are paying for it..

Hence savings banks (that hold our money, and use it) were able to merge with their investment divisions, making them... Ready?

TOO BIG TO FAIL, BAIL OUT TIME. BUSH AND OBAMA BOTH HAD A HAND IN IT.

They hate Obama too, most of us realize he got elected with Goldman sachs, and Bank of America money. Just like every other politician.

Of course they seem leftist, it seems like conservatives that have put us here.

Edit: Of course the other side is in on it...Dems are crap too.

Like a Cerberus.

A multi headed dog that guards the gates of hell. No matter what head eats you, you nourish the same monster. (the banks, and corporate sector)

[August]

For those that doubt this - there is a historical precedent. Richard Nixon was re-elected in a landslide while there was a fervent, vocal and very publicized anti-war and anti-government movement. Yet, the "silent majority" spoke clearly, 47 states went Nixon's way. While some of his actions as president are worthy of scorn and derision, the example in this regard stands.

The vast majority of the country is not willing to see the entire system torn down - violently or otherwise. Until real platforms for significant and REASONABLE change comes from the OWS movement, they will remain a fringe.


This ^

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

[soopaman2]

This ^

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

That could start with some kind of incentive to bring jobs back from China and India.

The severe trade imbalance and the manipulation of the Chinese RMB is another matter, nothing the American Citizen can do anything about.

America is expensive to live in, but corps think we should all be paid like peasants.

Even if you dislike the protestors (your right as a free man, sir) you sorta agree there is a problem. (?)
:salute:
This is the common ground we all must find as the citizens to change this.

We can go back to hating each other after we fix this.:)

[JU_88]

The vast majority of the country is not willing to see the entire system torn down - violently or otherwise. Until real platforms for significant and REASONABLE change comes from the OWS movement, they will remain a fringe.



+1
I think things so need to change rather desperatley, but I dont think capitalism needs to be destroyed or replaced, it merely needs to be revised, regulated (with some new cooperate laws) while its a flawed system, its still better than anything else on the Regime table.
A radical and violent revolution should be avoided at all costs as it innevitabley inflicts misery and suffering on innocent people, and I extend 'innocent people' to bankers and law enforcement offcials.
Im not a believer of colateral damage for 'the great of good' its easy to go with that so long as its not your family and loved ones who are caught in the crossfire.

[mookiemookie]

I don't think the solution is to dismantle capitalism, and I'd wager a large percentage of the protesters would say the same thing. But capitalism isn't bailouts. It isn't privatizing the profits and socializing the losses. It isn't where regulatory capture means that businesses write their own rules to their advantage and to the disadvantage of competition or fair trade practices.

To imply that these folks by and large want an end to capitalism is misrepresentation and strawman arguing on a massive scale.

There's fringe elements there, sure. The Tea Party had a lot of fringe elements as well. But the good thing is that it raises these issues in the national consciousness.

[Tribesman]

The issue with the OWS movement is that, unlike the Tea Party, it lacks a directed purpose. Some protesting are against "greed" - they disagree with TARP and other bailouts (which so does the Tea Party), others disagree with capitalism entirely. Some want serious tax reform, others call for revolution and an overthrow of the entire system. Some advocate peace, while others encourage and partake in violence.

I am afraid that on that part you are very wrong, the tea party ticks all the boxes you say it doesn't, you get the same jumbled and contradictory argements coming out at tea party protests as you get at wall street ones, the many splits within the tea party movement are due to their different agendas and aims, indeed the more nationaly united organised tea party groups are the ones being run by the very people a large number of tea partiers say they are against.

The rest of the post is good though.:up:

[JU_88]

I've long said that we need to replace the manufacturing jobs that we've lost with something comparable in benefits and pay. Not everyone can be a white collar worker and there is only so much need for service sector jobs but everyone needs to be able to support their family.

As long as we're not willing to let people starve in the streets our society needs to find a place for everyone regardless (within reason) of their education, intelligence and ability.

Agreed 100%, this applies here in the UK too.

[CaptainHaplo]

That could start with some kind of incentive to bring jobs back from China and India.

The severe trade imbalance and the manipulation of the Chinese RMB is another matter, nothing the American Citizen can do anything about.

America is expensive to live in, but corps think we should all be paid like peasants.

Even if you dislike the protestors (your right as a free man, sir) you sorta agree there is a problem. (?)
:salute:
This is the common ground we all must find as the citizens to change this.

We can go back to hating each other after we fix this.:)

Bringing back the industries from overseas is not a solution. Many republicans have talked about not taxing "repatriated" profits if companies move back here. Its a crock. It won't fix the problem.

But this post got me thinking about what WOULD fix the problem. And its not a single answer. But I will throw it out there for debate - its not a finished idea or even something I would fully support - but differing viewpoints would help me figure out if this would work to solve the equity problems.

So here goes:

1) Get rid of the National Minimum Wage - but read #2 before you think I have gone off the deep end.

2) Allow each State to set its own, statewide Minimum Wage. The reasoning here is simple - each state has its own cost of living. New Jersey, where soopaman2 is - costs (generally speaking) much higher to live in than it does in West Virginia. If each State sets their own, they can adjust as needed to various market factors while more accurately assessing the need of their citizens.

3) Get rid of the idea of regulating business profits - and replace it with:

4) requiring any business larger than what means the SBA definition of a small business (500 people) to institute a 25% profit sharing plan with its employees. The employees then have added incentive while still allowing corporate profits to be reasonably dispursed to investors. The great thing about this - is that investors (once this is instituted) know that its going to happen, and can be part of the solution instead of being the pariah. Plus, it takes a huge arguement away from the unions (and yes - I am not a union fan). However, its a slippery slope - why 25%, why not 50, or 75? See, this needs refining.

5) Accept that basic manufacturing is not going to return. Thus we need to focus on....

6) Innovation. Especially in the Energy field. However, this does not mean throwing good money after bad into the world of "green" energy - it means finding ways to use and improve the technologies and resources we have while still pursuing more sustainable energy sources. Energy independence alone would create a huge number of jobs and a driver to the economy that has been sorely missed.

I could go on, but that is a good start. Thoughts?

[Gerald]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/world/occupy-wall-street-protests-worldwide.html?ref=nyregion

[CaptainHaplo]

From link above:

In Chicago, about 175 people were arrested at about 1 a.m. on Sunday after refusing to leave Grant Park before the 11 p.m. closing time, said Officer Laura Kubiak, a spokeswoman for the Chicago Police Department.

The way that is worded - it makes it sound like they were arrested after being asked to leave prior to 11pm. Was it worded that way on purpose due to media bias, or was it merely bad linquistics? Note that the officer is not quoted - but paraphrased....

[Skybird]

On Saturday, a few thousand people demonstrated in Berlin and Frankfurt. In interviews they sounded all a bit diverse and confused over their goals and ideas, and the occasional anti-Nazi protester also was to be seen (identified by the poser he held up) as well as the general left-leaning declaration solidarity with Cuba on anothe rposter, and then some more of this and that.

The whole movement acted under the motto "We are the 99%" (refering to a statistic saying that over one third of the nation's real wealth and assets is owned by just 1% of the population).

But fact is much more than 99% of the German people stayed at home.

Today there was a very good essay on why the EU must be dismantled and rebuild from scratch, and why it is to be regarded as completely misled and ignorrant of realities and nationalist desirtes of different people. It is in German: http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article13653976/Die-Europaeische-Union-ist-eine-missglueckte-Maschine.html

I very much agree with the conclusions, and the analysis of the reasons why the EU has failed, and completely so.

I started to fear for my own material situation as well, I am no longer certain about the safety of my future prospects. But nevertheless I would celebrate it if I see the EU being buried, and a new structure of international cooperation between european states gets established. Cooperation in a diverse but cooperating Europe - not in a centralistic and uniform artifical entitity commanded by bureaucrats and aparatchiks without legitimation by the European people, an entity that reminds of things like the Soviet system of party, central committee and general secretary, hollowed-out pseudo-democracy, and the old Comecon the essay mentions. We have become far more a copy of the Soviet system than anybody could like as long as he is no member of the German SED-successor "Die Linke".

A new attempt for cooperation in Europe, based on realism, reason and not on idealistic megalomania and individual narcissism of individual self-displaying actor - preferably to be established without the interference of the current pesterous caste of politicians, bankers and industrial bosses - these, I honestely think, should be canned alltogether and dumped at the deepest place of the ocean we can find. Merkel, Ackermann, Berlusconi, Sarkozy, and all the many others - to me they are all the same sick breed.

[Tribesman]

The way that is worded - it makes it sound like they were arrested after being asked to leave prior to 11pm.
They were.
They were asked to leave before the park closed, two hours after the park closed they were arrested for not leaving before it closed. nothing wrong with the wording or linguistics.
the only confusion could be if you take the 11pm closing Saturday and think that it is after 1am arrests on Sunday.
Which would make the protests today not yesterday by reversing the calendar or make the arrests a week after the warning to leave.

[Jimbuna]

It would have been more accurate if the motto had of been "We are a part of the 99%" then.

[CaptainHaplo]

Yea it might have been just my confusion. Blasted flu/cold or whatever has me a bit foggy.

Tribesman - what are your thoughts on the points I raised above. While I know we often disagree - when we stay on subject good info flows.

[Tribesman]

There are so many ways around minimum wage and so many exemptions is it really an issue?
You say about going down to a Statewide level. Variances within a State can be huge, variances within a single city can be astounding, bringing it down to a workable local level just adds expence, another example of small and local meaning big and expensive.
One problem with minimum wage however is the low level, people on minimum wage jobs basicly pay bugger all income tax and usually qualify for welfare payments and have such small disposable income they don't even boost consumerism. In essence companies paying low wages are being massively subsidised by the taxpayer for very little return.

Business profits, I myself go for either a bonus method or price, or a combination of both. Changing one form of regulation to another form of regulation on profits will work effectively for just about as long as it takes an accountant to read through the changes.

Manufacturing, it isn't dead entirely and can be revived, though that will take either lots of lawsuits or a high level of protectionism.

Innovation is all well and good, but it does require government investment either in subsidies or exemptions as well as private finance....but unless you deal with the outflow of industry then all the innovations you fund will just get outsourced to some third world toxic dump

[yubba]

Well it ain't getting prettier is it ? I thought I'd throw some numbers at you, first one 14 million that's how many people that are claimed to be unemployed, 40 million on foodstamps that means you got 36 million people that aren't make-ing enough money to feed themselves, now I'm going to put a face with these numbers and you say well how are you going to do that??? Well it is me I've out work for 3 to 4 years no unemployment and just 15 weeks of foodstamps, I'm lucky that I had put some money away, I can get a few odd jobs here and there, I got good freinds, and a Lord that has a wild sense of humor, and I need no pity, now you can understand my passion, for conservative government and free markets. I don't blame the banks, they were only doing what they were told too do. I don't blame big corperations, what is it a crime to make money ?? I don't blame millioniares or billionaires, they aren't evil hell I'd like to be one. Heck I should be the poster child for all this occupy crap, and that's what it is, we had Occupy Merrit Island yesterday or today 200 people bused in and gone I missed it, freinds said it was uneventful, seen bigger tea party rallies here, by the thousands, the silent majority. Too finish it is government that got us here and the lack of it will get us out, there is a difference between us and the Euro folk when we vote, as citizens we vote for representation, subjects vote for rulers, the last I knew I was a citizen. We are the greatest nation ever and always will be. Vote Cain.

[CaptainHaplo]

OK see we are making headway.

While your right, states can have great variances - by definition the nation has a larger spread, and thus a national system serves the citizenry the least.

What do you mean by the "bonus method" or "price"? I might hazard a guess, but I'd likely be wrong and would rather have an informed discussion. Educate me.

[CaptainHaplo]

Too finish it is government that got us here and the lack of it will get us out, there is a difference between us and the Euro folk when we vote, as citizens we vote for representation, subjects vote for rulers, the last I knew I was a citizen. We are the greatest nation ever and always will be.

Yubba,

You are right when you talk about government being the problem and the lack of it being the solution. However, your wrong on your view of Europe. Europe as a whole uses a lot more "representative" government forms than you appear to be aware of. True, to hear most Euro's talk, they feel they are still under monarchies - just the monarchy of "party" instead of "king" or "queen". Still, is that so much different than the US today - where if a person isn't part of the "establishment" of one or the other "parties" they are below notice?

In many ways, the US and Europe are way to much alike in governance - and it shows because we are all in very similiar baskets.

Although if I were wanting to really throw a wrench into this - I could discuss how the US of A is really a corporation unto itself - and your SS# is actually your employee ID.

[Tribesman]

Price you just get paid just for what you do, bonus with me is a low basic plus a split.
It all depends on how many are on it, how much supervision I will have ther and how much paperwork I have to trawl through.
You can see why some prefer flat rate for ease but that provides neither incentive or penalty which in the long run costs you money.

[yubba]

you guys better figure it out, but then winter is come-ing see how long they last, and if europe falls I guess we won't have to worry about jobs at least my garden is in and the fishing is great.

[Tribesman]

Heck I should be the poster child for all this occupy crap
You should, on a huge poster with "I am very confused" written on it.
But forget just the posters, you could be the subject for a whole industry of humerous t-shirts and posters and they would never run short of ridiculous quotes to put on them.

We are the greatest nation ever and always will be.
That is just so British French German Italian Ethiopian Spanish Portugese Roman Greek Carhaginian Chinese Egyptian...
or is it more of a Soviet mantra:rotfl2:

[JU_88]

@Tribesmen, dont waste your breath on Yubba, hes too far gone and he aint never coming back. :D

[Tribesman]

@Tribesmen, dont waste your breath on Yubba, hes too far gone and he aint never coming back.
You never know, there is no shortage of people who have suddenly returned to reality after years of substance abuse and found it completely baffling and gone into meltdown, but some do eventually manage to clear their heads.
Then again Glenn Beck went from being just a drunken junkie to a full on frothing at the mouth crazy loon... another "poster boy" of the "tea party(mainline fringe)":rotfl2:

[AVGWarhawk]

Is it just me or is there a large lack of African American representation at these OWS protests? Keep in mind the only visuals that I have seen show a preponderance of whites. This of course offered by the media. Also, BO has some how associated MLK and the civil rights movement with OWS. I don't see the correlation.

[CaptainHaplo]

Oh, its noticed...

That is why "occupy the hood" was started.

Also - thats why the OWS is considering taking a number of its own "white" members, segregating them off and then disowning them as racist....


It has been pointed out by a variety of news organizations how "White" our movement is. I would like to propose that we dispel these accusations of racism by taking affirmative action via the following three steps.
1) Take a census of our attendees to determine how many people of color are in our numbers. 2) Divide the protest up into two groups: one which is proportionately representative of the ethnic diversity of this great nation, and another with however many white people are left over. 3) Move the "White" group to a new protest area that we can disown as a separate, racist group if necessary.
This will help the overall perception of the group as a just and fair group, filled with racial diversity.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-and-racial-inequality/

[Blood_splat]

Look at these horrible people picking on Wall Street. They should all be thrown into jail unlike the bankers.
http://i.livescience.com/images/i/20958/i02/occupy-wall-street-protest.jpg?1318521979

[mookiemookie]

Also - thats why one guy who posted anonymously on an OWS message board suggested they take a number of their own "white" members, segregate them off and then disown them as racist....


Fixed that for you.

[mookiemookie]

That is just so British French German Italian Ethiopian Spanish Portugese Roman Greek Carhaginian Chinese Egyptian...
or is it more of a Soviet mantra:rotfl2:

You forgot the Mongolians, the Ottomans and the Macedonians. :03:

[CaptainHaplo]

Fixed that for you.

Really? Because if you look at the responses - not one person was against the idea. Not one called it out as being racist in and of itself.

[Tribesman]

You forgot the Mongolians, the Ottomans and the Macedonians.
Well I didn't want to confuse the issue with that last one, them Macadamians are nuts you see.

[mookiemookie]

Really? Because if you look at the responses - not one person was against the idea. Not one called it out as being racist in and of itself.

And a handful of yahoos on a message board is an official position of a global group of protesters? Come on now, I don't take yubba's ramblings as the official platform of the Tea Party, and you shouldn't do something similar.

And you didn't read far enough down the page, because people did call it out as being racist.

[AVGWarhawk]

I did see Al Sharpton at the protest in NY. I'm not sure what this opportunity for Al is here. :hmmm:

[mookiemookie]

I did see Al Sharpton at the protest in NY. I'm not sure what this opportunity for Al is here. :hmmm:

If there's a camera around, Al Sharpton's going to do his darnedest to get in front of it.

[soopaman2]

If there's a camera around, Al Sharpton's going to do his darnedest to get in front of it.

They don't need that. Anything he grabs a banner for makes it a hoax.

Look at how many lives his brand of activism cost the Duke Lacrosse kids, as well as the ruined life of the prosecuter who feared him and hurriedly indicted innocent kids.

No thanks. They don't need a racebaiting blowhard mucking up their already huge accomplishments.:)

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-15320678

[AVGWarhawk]

If there's a camera around, Al Sharpton's going to do his darnedest to get in front of it.


Only if there is a opportunity for a few dollars. Opportunist: see Al Sharpton

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65515.html

[August]

Look at how many lives his brand of activism cost the Duke Lacrosse kids, as well as the ruined life of the prosecuter who feared him and hurriedly indicted innocent kids.

There's plenty to blame Al Sharpton for without making stuff up. Nifong made his own mistakes.

[soopaman2]

There's plenty to blame Al Sharpton for without making stuff up. Nifong made his own mistakes.

I don't think I am making anything up. He failed to follow due process, yes. It was also due to media pressure exerted by Sharpton. Like vultures to the corpse they all swarmed down there. Maybe Nifong wanted to be a hero, but the media would not have turned it into a hotbed racial issue if not for the racebaiter.
Tawana Brawly. (now that was just wrong) Sharpton is garbage.

[Jimbuna]

You forgot the Mongolians, the Ottomans and the Macedonians. :03:

Not forgetting the Martians and Daleks of course :)

[AVGWarhawk]

Not forgetting the Martians and Daleks of course :)

Klingon and Borg.

[Gerald]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1180/1149868752.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/1149868752.jpg/)

[AVGWarhawk]

and Tribbles. :DL

[Gerald]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5683/gw249bluetribbles.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/gw249bluetribbles.jpg/)

[Jimbuna]

Not forgetting Spambots

http://lolzombie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/spambots.jpg

[mookiemookie]

Now this is a great protest sign:

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/it%27s%20wrong%20to%20create.jpg

[Gerald]

She looks cute,:DL

[soopaman2]

Now this is a great protest sign:

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/it%27s%20wrong%20to%20create.jpg

Your a good human being Mr. Mookie. Few folks here realize the protestors are dead serious. Considering all the "jokes" made about them.

May you be blessed with the foresight others lack.

[soopaman2]

She looks cute,:DL

Reminds me of Kari Byron from mythbusters...The filthy things I would let her do....

Sorry for double post.:down:

[Jimbuna]

And so tou should be :O:

[JU_88]

She looks cute,:DL

I wouldnt say no either :)

[Gerald]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/he-made-it-on-wall-st-and-used-it-to-help-start-the-protests/?ref=nyregion

[AVGWarhawk]

Your a good human being Mr. Mookie. Few folks here realize the protestors are dead serious. Considering all the "jokes" made about them.

May you be blessed with the foresight others lack.

Realize Mookie was part of the loan process the young lady is displaying on the sign. :03:

[August]

Realize Mookie was part of the loan process the young lady is displaying on the sign. :03:

It's ok. He was just following orders! :DL

[mookiemookie]

Realize Mookie was part of the loan process the young lady is displaying on the sign. :03:

Hah! I didn't do mortgages. Home equity loans though, and those were indeed packaged up into asset backed securities. I remember seeing some absolutely terrible credit scores come in. And the funny thing was that if there was a middle aged, normal looking person with an awful credit score, there was about a 95% chance it was due to divorce. My parents actually had the best credit score I ever came across.

I don't recall any completely awful credit scores getting loans. Not to say that there wasn't, but I don't recall it. I worked at a bank though, and the real garbage came from mortgage brokers and lenders like Ditech and the Money Store, places like that.

It's ok. He was just following orders! :DL

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/70443/4a6633a19af95_70443n.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Just another brick in the wall Mookie. :O:

[tater]

I have no problem with legal protests of any stripe, but sleeping on the street, etc has got to be illegal, no? They'd roust bums doing so, so these protesters should sleep in their dorms and protest during the day (or night if they wish to take turns). No camping, it's a hazard.

Can backpacker tourists avoid NYC hotels and camp in parks, for example? If the answer is no, they should have all been booted the first night.

[soopaman2]

I have no problem with legal protests of any stripe, but sleeping on the street, etc has got to be illegal, no? They'd roust bums doing so, so these protesters should sleep in their dorms and protest during the day (or night if they wish to take turns). No camping, it's a hazard.

Can backpacker tourists avoid NYC hotels and camp in parks, for example? If the answer is no, they should have all been booted the first night.


I guess your not aware of the massive homeless problem in NYC?

Alot of people sleep on the street...

Generally they are left alone by the police, as long as they aren't causing a problem. Most don't. They simply want to be left alone from people who think they should be incarcerated because they are poor.

[AVGWarhawk]

I guess your not aware of the massive homeless problem in NYC?

Alot of people sleep on the street...

Generally they are left alone by the police, as long as they aren't causing a problem. Most don't. They simply want to be left alone from people who think they should be incarcerated because they are poor.

OWS is causing problems.

I'm not sure how factual this is but interesting to read:

These campers don't even have the legal right to camp in Zucotti Park, which is privately owned, let alone rename it. That third point has consistently shown up in the We Are the 99 Percent. Students got themselves into massive debt of their own free will, and thanks to some combination of factors including largely useless degrees and a horrible economy, can't get the jobs they need to pay off their debt. The government Obama's government is culpable at both ends of this, now, since on the one hand it took over the student loan industry, and on the other hand Democrats wrecked the housing and have blown the past three years as stewards of the economy. They made it worse, making it harder for these students to get jobs.

But instead of connecting those dots, the People's Assembly goes for freebies. Just give us your money or we'll keep on attacking the police and threatening to shut down Wall Street.

It's blackmail, basically, perpetrated by childish and gullible people who got themselves into trouble and now want a mulligan.

Funnily enough, the occupiers never adopted this manifesto out of fear that their homeless cadres would see the demand for student loan forgiveness as elitist pap. Imagine that.

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/17/ows-manifesto-massive-theft/

[CaptainHaplo]

Irony can be humorous....

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK

[tater]

I guess your not aware of the massive homeless problem in NYC?

Alot of people sleep on the street...

Generally they are left alone by the police, as long as they aren't causing a problem. Most don't. They simply want to be left alone from people who think they should be incarcerated because they are poor.

I don't see many, but then again, when I'm in the city I'm not in places where they likely crash. In ABQ, they'd have to go to a shelter. Pitching a tent in a park would get you hauled off.

Again, if backpacker tourists would not be allowed to simply camp at will on sidewalks or parks, they need to properly protest, and sleep at home.

[mookiemookie]

Irony can be humorous....

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/criminal_occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK

How is it ironic?

[soopaman2]

OWS is causing problems.

I'm not sure how factual this is but interesting to read:


http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/17/ows-manifesto-massive-theft/


Yes Mr. Warhawk I agree here. Zucotti park is privately owned, they should not try to take ownership.

But...

The list of demands given is fair. It would go a long way to bring justice...Which deep down inside is all we all want. Even if you see them as pinko commy traitors, dirty lazy Obama and Ron Paul voters, you realize their gripe has merit behind it.

They are fair demands. Thieves should go to jail. To bail out the banks was vile. you do that, you may as well bail out all the moron homeowners too.

Too much favoritism when it came to giving out aid...Glass-Steagall would have prevented most of this to big to fail mess.

Accountability. If the underwater homeowner must have it, then why should not the banks who packaged debt, sold it, then bet against the derivatives and made a killing from it.

Then got bailed out, and got performance bonuses?:06:

[mookiemookie]

Yes Mr. Warhawk I agree here. Zucotti park is privately owned, they should not try to take ownership.

But...

The list of demands given is fair. It would go a long way to bring justice...Which deep down inside is all we all want. Even if you see them as pinko commy traitors, dirty lazy Obama and Ron Paul voters, you realize their gripe has merit behind it.

They are fair demands. Thieves should go to jail. To bail out the banks was vile. you do that, you may as well bail out all the moron homeowners too.

Too much favoritism when it came to giving out aid...Glass-Steagall would have prevented most of this to big to fail mess.

Agreed. Anyone who says that this is about "redistribution of wealth" or getting rid of capitalism in favor of socialism is an idiot. Real capitalism is letting companies who screw up feel the repercussions of their screwups. It's not using taxpayer money to bail them out so they can continue to screw everyone.

[tater]

Most of those demands have no merit. Gotta love "forgive student loan debts."

LOL.

Unemployment for the under-educated is ~20% in the US, and remains pretty "normal" for those with a degree (and approaches zero for anyone with a post-graduate degree).

Anyone with college loans is lucky. Course the protesters probably have Art History majors.

Getting into the "1%" is also not terribly hard. They make it sound (as Obama does) that the top 1% are "millionaires." With jets. "Corporate Fat Cats." Top 1% starts around 400k per year. There are stagehands at Lincoln Center that make more than that (the average at LC is 290k/year for stagehands at AF HAll and AT Hall). Top stage hand at Carnegie Hall makes over 500k/year. I have friends in Chelsea that make nearly that much combined and live in a studio apartment the size of my master bedroom (their AGI doesn't get lumped as married because they are gay). "Top 0.1% doesn't make as good a placard, I guess.

40% pulling no weight, and the only the top of the next 60% pulling even their own weight, with only the very top subsidizing the bulk isn't enough I guess.

I'm fine with letting banks, etc fail. I was against bail outs. Ditto Obama's give away to unions at GM.

[CaptainHaplo]

How is it ironic?

Oh cmon, Mookie - you don't see irony?

Here these folks are, protesting to take stuff away from others (the "rich") and "share it" with everyone - but when its their stuff that gets taken - oh its just not right. They get all bent out of shape.

Someone didn't have $5,500 for a macbook, but someone else did. That isn't FAIR - so why shouldn't the taker be allowed one?

Course, if anyone had any sense - they would have put the money on something a little more useful than a macbook (man the 99% must be really poor to drop that kind of money on a piece of technology) - like paying off those college loans. Maybe hiring a professional to review their resume (if they have one). Even go take a certification test to make themselves more viable in the job market.

But oh nooooo - gotta have a 5500 buck macbook - and its MINE - but you have money so give me some of it!

Like I said.... IRONY!

[flatsixes]

... Anyone who says that this is about "redistribution of wealth" or getting rid of capitalism in favor of socialism is an idiot....

Well, okay then. Now at least we know who's camping out in Zuccotti Park (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop). You guessed it: a bunch of "idiots."*

The protesters have a distinct ideology and are bound by a deep commitment to radical left-wing policies. On Oct. 10 and 11, Arielle Alter Confino, a senior researcher at my polling firm, interviewed nearly 200 protesters in New York's Zuccotti Park. Our findings probably represent the first systematic random sample of Occupy Wall Street opinion.

Our research shows clearly that the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.

The vast majority of demonstrators are actually employed, and the proportion of protesters unemployed (15%) is within single digits of the national unemployment rate (9.1%).

An overwhelming majority of demonstrators supported Barack Obama in 2008. Now 51% disapprove of the president while 44% approve, and only 48% say they will vote to re-elect him in 2012, while at least a quarter won't vote.

Fewer than one in three (32%) call themselves Democrats, while roughly the same proportion (33%) say they aren't represented by any political party.

(*Not that there anything wrong with that!)

[mookiemookie]

Most of those demands have no merit. Gotta love "forgive student loan debts."

LOL. Forgiving them is far-fetched. Reforming a system that's stacked against the consumer is another matter. Student loan debt is not disgorged in bankruptcy. Thanks to the bank bailouts, neither is credit card debt. Many student loans are guaranteed by the government, so to the lender, it's essentially a riskless transaction. They still screw the borrower though.


Unemployment for the under-educated is ~20% in the US, and remains pretty "normal" for those with a degree (and approaches zero for anyone with a post-graduate degree).

Anyone with college loans is lucky. Course the protesters probably have Art History majors. Yeah, let's lump everyone together and make sweeping generalizations. That's the hallmark of a great argument.

Getting into the "1%" is also not terribly hard. Statements like this are why your posts are always so head shakingly funny. if it was easy to be rich, then everyone would be rich.

There are stagehands at Lincoln Center that make more than that (the average at LC is 290k/year for stagehands at AF HAll and AT Hall). Top stage hand at Carnegie Hall makes over 500k/year. Why don't you quote the average pay for stagehands, which is $9.79 an hour. Oh, I get it, quoting an outlier like it's the average makes your argument look strong. Righty-o.

protesting to take stuff away from others (the "rich") and "share it" with everyone -

No they're not.

Course, if anyone had any sense - they would have put the money on something a little more useful than a macbook (man the 99% must be really poor to drop that kind of money on a piece of technology) - like paying off those college loans. Maybe hiring a professional to review their resume (if they have one). Even go take a certification test to make themselves more viable in the job market.

But oh nooooo - gotta have a 5500 buck macbook - and its MINE - but you have money so give me some of it!

And you know this person's personal financial situation well enough to give this advice.....how?

Well, okay then. Now at least we know who's camping out in Zuccotti Park (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop). You guessed it: a bunch of "idiots."*



(*Not that there anything wrong with that!)

So a biased poll of 200 people, most likely cherry picked, tells the story of a global movement. Sure. By the way, quoting an opinion piece out of the Rupert Murdoch owned WSJ on the OWS movement like it's a reputable and reliable piece of journalism...that's a knee slapper. If that's the standard we're going for, why don't I just start quoting Daily Kos.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes Mr. Warhawk I agree here. Zucotti park is privately owned, they should not try to take ownership.

But...

The list of demands given is fair. It would go a long way to bring justice...Which deep down inside is all we all want. Even if you see them as pinko commy traitors, dirty lazy Obama and Ron Paul voters, you realize their gripe has merit behind it.

They are fair demands. Thieves should go to jail. To bail out the banks was vile. you do that, you may as well bail out all the moron homeowners too.

Too much favoritism when it came to giving out aid...Glass-Steagall would have prevented most of this to big to fail mess.

Accountability. If the underwater homeowner must have it, then why should not the banks who packaged debt, sold it, then bet against the derivatives and made a killing from it.

Then got bailed out, and got performance bonuses?:06:

Fair demands? Saying the government should just let the students loans go? What about my kids in a few year when they go to college and need a loan? Do they get the high hard one or a free ride like these folks want? Moron home owners? Yes, there are a few. How about the other morons who did not default on their home loans? Another high hard one? You bet'cha. Underwater homeowners do not have accountability. They are walking without much recourse. Some who can afford their homes are walking as a result of upside down loans. The picture is much bigger than performance bonuses and failed policy concerning lending money to of all things....a bank.

Gordon Gecko is not going to cutting checks. The protest is getting as stale as the park itself. They should be camping out on the mall in Washington. Not Wall Street.

[soopaman2]

Gordon Gecko is not going to cutting checks. The protest is getting as stale as the park itself. They should be camping out on the mall in Washington. Not Wall Street.


Exactly...DC is the problem, and I have said that alot here..
But it seems everyone who hates them inexplicably glosses over the other demands on that list. Glass-steagall? Breaking up too big to fails? Flash trading? Justice for fraudster bansters who got rewarded for breaking the worlds economy?

Sure just read what you hate and harp on that one point only, to invalidate the ones that are relevant. (Works for Fox News and MSNBC)

Why are you so in favor of the status quo? (honestly, you don't think something is wrong here?)

[mookiemookie]

Why are you so in favor of the status quo?

This is what I don't get either. It's like it would be poison for some people to admit that the government is corrupt and money holds more say than a person's vote. That's the root of the whole protest, but for some reason, people buy into the smears that it's about communism or a bunch of lazy people wanting free stuff.

The people with their hand on the throat of democracy and true capitalism in this country feel threatened by the protests. They can only maintain their grip so long as nobody points it out. When it's pointed out, they put out a story that these people are communists or socialists or whatever in order to divert the attention away from themselves. And the rubes lap it up and spew it back at anyone who dares say that the protesters have a point. Unbelievable.

[CaptainHaplo]

No they're not.

Yes Mookie - they are. Look at what they are protesting...

Social and economic "injustice". The only fix presented is the same one that the left has been on about for months now - tax the rich. And where does the majority of taxes go? Social programs. Who uses the social programs? The disadvantaged.

So its

Take from the rich
Give to the poor.

Just don't take their 5500 dollar macbook - cuz they are the 99% poor remember...

[mookiemookie]

Yes Mookie - they are. Look at what they are protesting...

Social and economic "injustice". The only fix presented is the same one that the left has been on about for months now - tax the rich. And where does the majority of taxes go? Social programs. Who uses the social programs? The disadvantaged.

So its

Take from the rich
Give to the poor.

Just don't take their 5500 dollar macbook - cuz they are the 99% poor remember...

So where does "bail out the rich and let them continue to screw everyone" fit into that story? Because I don't know if you were paying attention over the past 3 years or so, but that's kind of what's happened.

The rich have taken from everyone else - they blow up the economy and now are back to doing better than ever, while everyone else gets to pick up the pieces and gets stuck with the tab. Where's that fit into the story?

Why are you okay with money having more say in politics than your vote? Seriously, how is that okay or at all how the Founders intended the country to work. I'd love to hear the explanation, because you're sure defending that system pretty hard.

[Tribesman]

This is what I don't get either.
What is even more illustrative is those who go beyond praising the system that shafted them and have gotten into lapping up a proposal which asks them to bend over even further for an even bigger backdoor delivery.

[AVGWarhawk]

Exactly...DC is the problem, and I have said that alot here..
But it seems everyone who hates them inexplicably glosses over the other demands on that list. Glass-steagall? Breaking up too big to fails? Flash trading? Justice for fraudster bansters who got rewarded for breaking the worlds economy?

Sure just read what you hate and harp on that one point only, to invalidate the ones that are relevant. (Works for Fox News and MSNBC)

Why are you so in favor of the status quo? (honestly, you don't think something is wrong here?)

Really guy? In favor of status quo? You are participating in the Cain threat driving the Libs crazy correct? Honestly, there is something wrong here...at PA Ave. Wall St is like a kid given a lollipop. They ate it all without sharing. What did Washington expect when they handed the lollipop to banks?

My issue is protesting at Wall St make very little sense and you agree as well. However, do these folks believe Wall St is going to do anything? Do you think Obama who embraced the protest is going to do anything? No sir...status quo is what is going to happen.

[mookiemookie]

My issue is protesting at Wall St make very little sense and you agree as well. However, do these folks believe Wall St is going to do anything? Do you think Obama who embraced the protest is going to do anything? No sir...status quo is what is going to happen.

The first step is speaking up. Nothing else can happen unless people speak up.

[AVGWarhawk]

What is even more illustrative is those who go beyond praising the system that shafted them and have gotten into lapping up a proposal which asks them to bend over even further for an even bigger backdoor delivery.


I have not seen anyone praise the system. Maybe in the Reagan era. :hmmm:

[Tribesman]

Really guy? In favor of status quo? You are participating in the Cain threat driving the Libs crazy correct?
And don't you understand that it is more of the same with Cain?
More of the same on steroids, his "change" is to go further along the path that got you where you are. Cain isn't status quo he is doubleplusstatusquo

[August]

This is what I don't get either. It's like it would be poison for some people to admit that the government is corrupt and money holds more say than a person's vote. That's the root of the whole protest, but for some reason, people buy into the smears that it's about communism or a bunch of lazy people wanting free stuff.

The people with their hand on the throat of democracy and true capitalism in this country feel threatened by the protests. They can only maintain their grip so long as nobody points it out. When it's pointed out, they put out a story that these people are communists or socialists or whatever in order to divert the attention away from themselves. And the rubes lap it up and spew it back at anyone who dares say that the protesters have a point. Unbelievable.

What unbelievable is how you always go right for the personal insults. "Rubes"? Do you really think your rudeness is going to win you any allies among the middle class? I mean the real middle class, not the union guy who thinks that sweeping the floor ought to provide a "living wage" or the Ivy league college student who has absolutely no conception of what it takes to hold down a job?

[mookiemookie]

What unbelievable is how you always go right for the personal insults. "Rubes"? Do you really think your rudeness is going to win you any allies among the middle class? I mean the real middle class, not the union guy who thinks that sweeping the floor ought to provide a "living wage" or the Ivy league college student who has absolutely no conception of what it takes to hold down a job?

"Always" Hah. And you "always" mischaracterize and strawman the other person's argument. But I stand by my opinion that anyone against getting Wall Street money out of Congress and bringing back real capitalism and ending corporate welfare is deserving of being called a much nastier name than "rube."

[soopaman2]

Really guy? In favor of status quo? You are participating in the Cain threat driving the Libs crazy correct? Honestly, there is something wrong here...at PA Ave. Wall St is like a kid given a lollipop. They ate it all without sharing. What did Washington expect when they handed the lollipop to banks?

My issue is protesting at Wall St make very little sense and you agree as well. However, do these folks believe Wall St is going to do anything? Do you think Obama who embraced the protest is going to do anything? No sir...status quo is what is going to happen.

No they will crumble. Both sides do not want change...:-?

But if this fails, the next iteration will be alot worse. (Look at Rome's versions of the protest)

Only thing that will heal us now is a bloody revolution... As is our right in the Declaration of independance. (need the quote?)It's why we don't have all our guns taken away like other countries...

Sorry, It would truly suck, but money wins right now...And the protestors are not moneyed enough to be represented....

We are not as far apart as it seems. None of us as Americans are.

[CaptainHaplo]

So where does "bail out the rich and let them continue to screw everyone" fit into that story? Because I don't know if you were paying attention over the past 3 years or so, but that's kind of what's happened.

The rich have taken from everyone else - they blow up the economy and now are back to doing better than ever, while everyone else gets to pick up the pieces and gets stuck with the tab. Where's that fit into the story?

Why are you okay with money having more say in politics than your vote? Seriously, how is that okay or at all how the Founders intended the country to work. I'd love to hear the explanation, because you're sure defending that system pretty hard.

Now this is where you and I actually agree 100% - the bailouts should not have ever happened. If its a business in a capitalist system, then it should live and die on its own merits. I was just as against Tarp and QE/QE2 as anyone. I was against government bailouts of GM.

We can agree those were wrong. However - GOVERNMENT made those happen. Yes - the wall streeters had lobbyists - but lobbyists don't enact legislation - politicians do! The wall street crowd used the system - it was the politicians who sold us out! Thats why we conservatives say the OWS folks are protesting in the wrong place.

Where we differ - is the solution. Regulate them? Where the hell were Frank and Dodd while this happend? It was their job to be providing oversight - they didn't so now they pass laws to increase oversight. Oversight and regulation doesn't help when the people entrusted to do it are asleep at the wheel. Instead - it simply makes our economy struggle more with the burden. For the OWS crowd the answer is take from the rich. We got shafted - shafting someone else (who committed no crime - just used the system that the politicians put into place) isn't going to fix anything. Ultimately - this is a case of 2 wrong's don't make a right (which OWS would create) and while I can understand the angst of the OWS crowd, they are targeting the wrong people with the wrong solutions.

[AVGWarhawk]

And don't you understand that it is more of the same with Cain?
More of the same on steroids, his "change" is to go further along the path that got you where you are. Cain isn't status quo he is doubleplusstatusquo

Yes, but little less steroids than the other running who are part of the status quo. A little less than the establishment. At this point I would vote in Gumby.

http://www.funcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/gumby2.jpg

[mookiemookie]

Now this is where you and I actually agree 100% - the bailouts should not have ever happened. If its a business in a capitalist system, then it should live and die on its own merits. I was just as against Tarp and QE/QE2 as anyone. I was against government bailouts of GM.

We can agree those were wrong. However - GOVERNMENT made those happen. Yes - the wall streeters had lobbyists - but lobbyists don't enact legislation - politicians do! The wall street crowd used the system - it was the politicians who sold us out! Thats why we conservatives say the OWS folks are protesting in the wrong place.

Where we differ - is the solution. Regulate them? Where the hell were Frank and Dodd while this happend? It was their job to be providing oversight - they didn't so now they pass laws to increase oversight. Oversight and regulation doesn't help when the people entrusted to do it are asleep at the wheel. Instead - it simply makes our economy struggle more with the burden. For the OWS crowd the answer is take from the rich. We got shafted - shafting someone else (who committed no crime - just used the system that the politicians put into place) isn't going to fix anything. Ultimately - this is a case of 2 wrong's don't make a right (which OWS would create) and while I can understand the angst of the OWS crowd, they are targeting the wrong people with the wrong solutions.

The politicians are owned by Wall Street. Whatever changes come, they're only temporary until corporate money corrupts the next crop of politicians and so you have to get at the root of the problem. The United States has become a corporatocracy - government for the donors, by the donors. Campaign finance and lobbying money has so utterly corrupted Congress that elected officials might as well just wear "For Sale" signs around their necks. Heck, even state AG's are getting in on the act. Florida AG Pam Bondi took campaign contributions from financial firms that were at the time under investigation by her office for foreclosure fraud. How screwed up is that?

We need to take back the system where one person, one vote is the way things are done. The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation

[soopaman2]

Yes, but little less steroids than the other running who are part of the status quo. A little less than the establishment. At this point I would vote in Gumby.

http://www.funcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/gumby2.jpg

Can I ask you to respectfully reconsider changing your vote?:salute:
Mr. Hand is running for senate and will fillibuster anything Gumby tries to do. With a firm "smash"

Vote for Lady Gaga and the vice president Pee Wee Herman (Paul Reubens)

I mean, we couldn't be any more of a joke than we are.:D

And I apologize for accusing you of supporting the status quo, we really aren't far apart IMHO.:oops:

[AVGWarhawk]

Can I ask you to respectfully reconsider changing your vote?:salute:
Mr. Hand is running for senate and will fillibuster anything Gumby tries to do. With a firm "smash"

Vote for Lady Gaga and the vice president Pee Wee Herman (Paul Reubens)

I mean, we couldn't be any more of a joke than we are.:D

And I apologize for accusing you of supporting the status quo, we really aren't far apart IMHO.:oops:


Pee Wee does funny things in the darkened theaters. Lady Gaga is much farther out than Pluto. :O:

No reason to apologize. I do support some of the status quo. All be it a small portion. And honestly, I see plenty of injustice every Friday. It starts in columns such as Federal Income Tax, State Tax, MED, SS. MD M4 and 401KE(that really is the sham of all shams) We have been hoodwinked on 401K retirement plans. That is whole other thread.

[AVGWarhawk]

The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation


Never happen. To much money involved for campaigning.

[CaptainHaplo]

We need to take back the system where one person, one vote is the way things are done. The only way to do it is to take the corrupting influence of Wall Street money out of the equation

Again - we agree - at least to a point. I don't think corporations, pac's, unions or anything (or anyone) else that can't walk into a voting booth and "pull a lever" should be able to give one dime to a politician - or run a political ad.

The problem is - its not just wall street. You going to be willing to bust the unions who put millions of dollars into the hands of politicians when the money came from members who may not support the person? You going to be willing to tell every PAC that exists that they have to shut down?

And lets not forget -taking the money out of wall street will impact us ALL in a very negative way - wny not just put a dividing wall between wall street, unions , PAC's etc? Because the POLITICIANS won't allow it.

The POLITICIANS take the money.
The POLITICIANS make the laws.
The POLITICIANS screw the people.

Seems the root of the problem is the POLITICIANS! And that goes for both "parties"! So why are we all, black, white, yellow, polkadoted, liberal, conservative, OWS, Tea Party, etc - not focusing on where the real problem is?

Because the establishment is pulling the strings on groups like OWS. They are using them to deflect blame away from the politicians. The only reason the left gets more grief is because they have been the ones in power for a little while. Which is why they are using OWS. Its not the OWS'ers fault - they are just following the line they were given - without using critical thinking. Its easier to blame than think.

THINK - and you will see the problem isn't the "left" or the "right" - the problem is those who have used the play off the other side to consilidate their power to the point where people refuse to see the real problem.

RENO!

Re
Elect
No
One

[AVGWarhawk]

The only reason the left gets more grief is because they have been the ones in power for a little while.

Biden admitted today's economic situation is all Obama's(BO administration). They have been in power long enough to acknowledge they own the current economic system.

[CaptainHaplo]

AVG - the thing is "they" do own it - and "they" isn't the democrats any more than its the republicans. BOTH sides have shafted us. This bailout crap started with Bush.

The two parties simply move at different speeds. Now, with the arrival of the OWS and Tea Party, you have the real differences. Socialism or a return to constitutional governance.

Yes - that is a generalization on both - but its still fairly accurate.

[mookiemookie]

Again - we agree - at least to a point. I don't think corporations, pac's, unions or anything (or anyone) else that can't walk into a voting booth and "pull a lever" should be able to give one dime to a politician - or run a political ad.

The problem is - its not just wall street. You going to be willing to bust the unions who put millions of dollars into the hands of politicians when the money came from members who may not support the person? You going to be willing to tell every PAC that exists that they have to shut down?

And lets not forget -taking the money out of wall street will impact us ALL in a very negative way - wny not just put a dividing wall between wall street, unions , PAC's etc? Because the POLITICIANS won't allow it.


"At bottom, the Court's opinion is thus a rejection of the common sense of the American people, who have recognized a need to prevent corporations from undermining self government since the founding, and who have fought against the distinctive corrupting potential of corporate electioneering since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. It is a strange time to repudiate that common sense. While American democracy is imperfect, few outside the majority of this Court would have thought its flaws included a dearth of corporate money in politics." - John Paul Stevens writing the dissenting opinion in the Citizens United case.


Now, with the arrival of the OWS and Tea Party, you have the real differences. Socialism or a return to constitutional governance. Yes - that is a generalization on both - but its still fairly accurate.

The opposite of plutocracy is socialism now. Interesting. And completely inaccurate.

[August]

"Always" Hah. And you "always" mischaracterize and strawman the other person's argument. But I stand by my opinion that anyone against getting Wall Street money out of Congress and bringing back real capitalism and ending corporate welfare is deserving of being called a much nastier name than "rube."

Ok maybe "always" is an exaggeration but in this thread alone you have called those who you disagree with you rubes, idiots, malicious, ludicrous, butthurt, yahoos and a joke.

Heck your first comment about that Coulter article I posted was "the mangled blood coughs of a rhetorical emphysemic on her last bits of lung". I had to press you for you to give a decent answer that wasn't filled with personal insult and invective.

Not to mention the fact that your side constantly refers to "the rich" like they were united in their beliefs and practices. That's not a mischaracterization of them? Saying "they" are all out to steal your money, that's not a strawman?

Whatever. You just keep alienating potential supporters. We'll see what nastier names you can call us when your movement fails.

[soopaman2]

I just wish for non partisan press. MSNBC is for Paul krugman far left Liberals/ Fox is for Karl Rove far right repubs. CNN is a dog with its tongue hanging out its mouth trying to keep up. (Forget Bloomberg news, Owned by the mayor of New York City, a wall Street Billionairre...Great mayor though)

All love to vilify them... As if they fear them...:)

It's why people put so much energy into discrediting them, and people put so much energy into defending them.

Love them or hate them, they are a force to be at least listened to and taken seriously, Rather than being made fun of.

[CaptainHaplo]

Mookie - kind of makes sense, does it not?

A plutocracy is rule by the wealthy and powerful - in this case - big business.

Socialism is a lack of big business - where the State owns everything - and of course the "people" make up the State.

So yes - they are polar opposites as one is antithetical to the other.

Also, in case you didn't catch my earlier comment - I am in full agreement with the dissenters on Citizens United vs FEC. It was a horrible decision, and I don't mind calling out the "conservative" justices on it.

[mookiemookie]

We'll see what nastier names you can call us when your movement fails.

I'll ask you why you hate democracy and capitalism so much and wish to see them fail.

(Forget Bloomberg news, Owned by the mayor of New York City, a wall Street Billionairre...Great mayor though)

Actually they do a pretty good job balancing their op-eds on both sides.

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG - the thing is "they" do own it - and "they" isn't the democrats any more than its the republicans. BOTH sides have shafted us. This bailout crap started with Bush.

The two parties simply move at different speeds. Now, with the arrival of the OWS and Tea Party, you have the real differences. Socialism or a return to constitutional governance.

Yes - that is a generalization on both - but its still fairly accurate.

However, Biden admitted this is the Obama economy. At what point, after TARP, bailouts and stimulus packages does one realize it is a Obama economy? I fully understand both have put the thumb screws to us. I see it daily. OWS/Tea Party are very similar. Socialism does not look to fly presently. Constitutional governance looks to be the only viable means to stability?

[CaptainHaplo]

Well AVG - I think the constitution is a pretty nifty way to go. I man heck, it worked for a while, then the government decided to start ignoring it. Look where that got us.

If your lost in the woods because you left the trail, then you see the trail again - its probably a good idea to get back on it....

[August]

I'll ask you why you hate democracy and capitalism so much and wish to see them fail.

Demanding that someone else pay your bills is hardly democracy or capitalism.

[soopaman2]

Demanding that someone else pay your bills is hardly democracy or capitalism.

Agree!:salute:

Now tell that to Wall Street and GM. (they don't listen anyways)

[AVGWarhawk]

Well AVG - I think the constitution is a pretty nifty way to go. I man heck, it worked for a while, then the government decided to start ignoring it. Look where that got us.

If your lost in the woods because you left the trail, then you see the trail again - its probably a good idea to get back on it....

You think it is a nifty way to go and so did those the had written it.:up: I agree the Constitution has, for a lack of a better sentence, been used to wipe their butts. Throw in some amendments created by poor "interpretation" of what the originators intended and viola...mayhem. Who is it, Ron Paul, as the man with Constitutional knowledge like no other that are running?

I hope there was popcorn dropped when the trail disappeared under foot. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Demanding that someone else pay your bills is hardly democracy or capitalism.

Is the correct name entitlements?

[Sailor Steve]

Heck your first comment about that Coulter article I posted was "the mangled blood coughs of a rhetorical emphysemic on her last bits of lung". I had to press you for you to give a decent answer that wasn't filled with personal insult and invective.
But personal insult and invective are Coulter's stock-in-trade. She brings out the worst in people, even good folks like Mookie. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

Well AVG - I think the constitution is a pretty nifty way to go. I man heck, it worked for a while, then the government decided to start ignoring it.
Which was about five minutes after the first Congress met.

[CaptainHaplo]

Who is it, Ron Paul, as the man with Constitutional knowledge like no other that are running?

Actually - the man with the best Constitutional knowledge that is running is Newt Gingrich. Few people know it - but he has a PH.D in History. While his own education did not focus on US history, his long friendship and work with Dr. William Forstchen has furthered his understanding immensely. Newt is a history buff, he loves it, and I have had the pleasure of hearing him and Dr. Forstchen discuss early American history.

Now, just because he knows it, doesn't mean he is a constitutionalist. I make no claim that he is, nor a claim that he is not. But he knows it overall better than any presidential candidate running - on either side of the coin.

[soopaman2]

Actually - the man with the best Constitutional knowledge that is running is Newt Gingrich. Few people know it - but he has a PH.D in History. While his own education did not focus on US history, his long friendship and work with Dr. William Forstchen has furthered his understanding immensely. Newt is a history buff, he loves it, and I have had the pleasure of hearing him and Dr. Forstchen discuss early American history.

Now, just because he knows it, doesn't mean he is a constitutionalist. I make no claim that he is, nor a claim that he is not. But he knows it overall better than any presidential candidate running - on either side of the coin.

Newt is actually a brilliant man. I respect him alot.

He just seems to have a trail of filth behind him. Sadly.
He is more moderate than most Republicans and will never get the "hardliner vote" Being a softer tpye the repub bosses would never throw weight behind him, like they are with our favorite polygamist.

[flatsixes]

So a biased poll of 200 people, most likely cherry picked, tells the story of a global movement. Sure. By the way, quoting an opinion piece out of the Rupert Murdoch owned WSJ on the OWS movement like it's a reputable and reliable piece of journalism...that's a knee slapper. If that's the standard we're going for, why don't I just start quoting Daily Kos.

If you'd like to quote the Daily Kos, go right ahead. That's what differences of opinion are all about. But I think that your wholesale rejection of the poll that I linked to is a bit knee-jerk. Yes, the article appeared in the Wall Street Journal, and yes, that paper is owned by News Corp, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. But if you actually read the piece, you would have noticed that the author is a Democratic pollster, and that he was (in essence) warning his fellow Democrats about getting too cozy with the OWS movement before learning more about them.

Of course, you're free to agree or disagree with his results, but I suggest that you spend a moment or two to read the article before dismissing the source out of hand. You can always slap your knees later.

[August]

But personal insult and invective are Coulter's stock-in-trade. She brings out the worst in people, even good folks like Mookie. :O:

That is definitely true Steve.

[yubba]

Lions and tigers and bears oh my lions and tigers and bears oh my, Liars and commies and nazis oh my, been a little busy, learned that the American Nazi and Communist parties are giving support too the occupiers, yubba also learned new word, the word of the day, boys and girls is sedition, you guys seem pretty smart, explain to yubba why this isn't sedition. http://www.ask.com/wiki/Sedition and why the government has not denounce this movement, I guess this is why they are not burning store fronts here in the states. Heard on the radio that the occupiers are having things like cameras and laptops being stolen from them, liberals stealing from liberals what a tootie fruity world they live in, if they don't believe in capitalism why do they have such things. Last yubba heard nazis were pretty racist, now who did they hate:hmmm::hmmm: yubba hate nazis, nazis kill family members on big beach in France in big war, yubba not fond of france either. So who's the terrorist the Tea Party or the Occupiers.

[nikimcbee]

Wow, these flea-baggers are brilliant!:haha:

They need to keep these obamavilles alive and kicking through the election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY

3 cheers for obamunism.


Abolish the money!
Share everything.

Yubba, now you stay away from those flea-baggers. I can't afford the the flea meds again.:haha::D

[nikimcbee]

Global equantity!:har:

[JU_88]

Its very very long, but I think everyone should watch this :nope: (Especially Americans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?index=0&feature=PlayList&v=WHOujO-Qnlw&list=PL0E538EF1638B57DF

[nikimcbee]

The leaders of obamunism. The Green Guard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0qkbQfszp0

[joea]

Its very very long, but I think everyone should watch this :nope: (Especially Americans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?index=0&feature=PlayList&v=WHOujO-Qnlw&list=PL0E538EF1638B57DF


Doubt some here will even click on it...:shifty:

[JU_88]

Doubt some here will even click on it...:shifty:

That is a shame, its disturbing to say the least but it explains ALOT.

I'd urge everyone to watch it from start to finish before drawing conclusions, try not to dismiss it after 2 minutes or just attack its credibility, please give him a fair chance and hear what he has to say from his own experience and try to crossreference any thing you doubt. What he is presenting is NOT a conspiricy theory its an account - and his actions and investigation have cost him his career.
He is not asking viewers to take his word for it at face value either, hes encouraging everyone to look in to it for themselves.
Its not easy to digest but its certainly something of a wake up call.

[CaptainHaplo]

JU_88,

I watched the whole thing. Its not a conspiracy theory. It is however a purely leftist presentation of the facts.

The first 4 minutes is all about how corporations are evil and lists isolated scandals as if they are pervasive. At around 5:20 the interviewee admits that the issue was the SEC failing to do its job. Later, in the 7:00-8:00 minute time frame, the same is repeated.

The SEC is run by politicians - they are political appointees of the President confirmed by the Senate - and has a majority of Democrats as its oversight.

It proves what I have said elsewhere - the corporations are not the problem - the problem is in the governmental construct (the SEC) that has failed in ITS job to oversee business. But the "documentary" doesn't want to touch that fact - because supposedly - the government that screwed us all the first time is the answer to fixing it all.

Its propoganda - easily punctured by fact.

[mookiemookie]

The SEC is run by politicians - they are political appointees of the President confirmed by the Senate - and has a majority of Democrats as its oversight.



If you want to play partisan politics on this, you will lose. Not to mention, you're flat out wrong.

"The last six months have made it abundantly clear that voluntary regulation does not work." - Christopher Cox, Republican, George W. Bush nominee and then-Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission in September, 2008

Anyone that wants to blame one side or the other for the financial crisis is sorely mistaken.

the corporations are not the problem

It's defies belief that after all that's happened in even just the past four years, let alone longer, someone could state this with a straight face. Giving the companies who blew up the world economy a free pass is galling.

I will agree that lack of governmental oversight is one of the key causes of the financial crisis. But the solution to that is not more lack of governmental oversight. That makes no sense.

[CaptainHaplo]

Once again, you miss the point mookie.

Tell me - how will taking the wealth of corporations or the "rich" create jobs? How will trusting the politicians who sat by and watched this happen the first time, with the expectation that they are going to fix it now - going to help? How is taxing every "millionaire" - when the vast majority of them are small business owners who don't MAKE a million - but simply have a REVENUE of 1 million or more - going to help our economy?

None of it will!

What's amazing is that you want to refuse to THINK about this, and instead react with "well company XYZ didn't pay any taxes, they should PAY!" - yes they should - so lets agree to end all the loopholes. But who put the loopholes there? Lobbyists ask for em - but POLITICIANS put them there because they are the ones that write the laws!

Want to say business screwed us? Fine - but guess what - if so, they did it (in most cases) legally - which while you don't like it, and I don't like it - your angst should be pointed at the ones who wrote (and enforced - or in this case - failed to enforce) those laws.

This whole OWS is all about jealousy - take from those rich cats, but don't touch my $5500 macbook. Whats theirs is mine and whats mine is mine. Its not justice, its selfishness. Course you avoided that whole discussion, didn't you.......

Has anyone noticed that the crowd is generally 20 somethings and 40+ somethings? Those of us in "Generation X" - labelled slackers and whatnot so long ago - are the ones that are keeping this country afloat. 99% my a$$ - OWS has had so many polls done in it - by the left and right both - and it consistently polls as hard, hard left. 30+% support violence to take from the "rich". 65% support government funded higher education and health care to all - regardless of the cost.

Its nothing more than the old hippies and the new hippies, just with different hairdo's, screaming in the streets like they did in the 60's, while the silent majority looks on with disdain. The silent majority will speak again soon. And the left won't like it.

If government oversight failed - why is more government oversight the answer then Mookie?

[mookiemookie]

Tell me - how will taking the wealth of corporations or the "rich" create jobs? It's not about taking the wealth from the rich. It's about them paying their fair share. Why does a multibillion dollar corporation pay no taxes? Why do they receive corporate welfare when corporate profits are at record highs? Meanwhile, schools are overcrowded, bridges are crumbling, property taxes are going up in order to make up the shortfall. How is that even remotely fair to ask those with the least ability to pay to take up the slack of those getting a free ride?

How will trusting the politicians who sat by and watched this happen the first time, with the expectation that they are going to fix it now - going to help? You're missing the point now. The point is telling the politicians that we're not going to put up with them sitting back and collecting lobbyist dollars without reigning in the excesses. If they refuse to listen, they'll be replaced.

How is taxing every "millionaire" - when the vast majority of them are small business owners who don't MAKE a million - but simply have a REVENUE of 1 million or more - going to help our economy? How is shifting the tax burden on to the lower and middle class going to help it? You have to tax and cut spending on them a hell of a lot more to make up the revenue lost by letting people like GE get away with paying no tax at all.

What's amazing is that you want to refuse to THINK about this No, I've thought about it and I reject your viewpoint.

and instead react with "well company XYZ didn't pay any taxes, they should PAY!" - yes they should Damn skippy

- so lets agree to end all the loopholes. Yay!

But who put the loopholes there? Lobbyists ask for em - but POLITICIANS put them there because they are the ones that write the laws! And who wouldn't be against crony capitalism?

Want to say business screwed us? Fine - but guess what - if so, they did it (in most cases) legally - which while you don't like it, and I don't like it - your angst should be pointed at the ones who wrote (and enforced - or in this case - failed to enforce) those laws. It is. But it takes two to tango. Politicians aren't going to work for you unless you pay them off. That's the WHOLE POINT of the protests. It's letting them know that they work for US, and that money and politics DON'T mix.

This whole OWS is all about jealousy - take from those rich cats, but don't touch my $5500 macbook. Whats theirs is mine and whats mine is mine. Its not justice, its selfishness. Course you avoided that whole discussion, didn't you....... Because it's absolute bullschitt and has no substance. Ending crony capitalism is jealousy? What planet do you live on? Thinking something's wrong when unemployment is at multi-generational highs yet corporate profits and income for the top 1% of earners is at multi-generational highs is jealousy? No, it's pointing out that there's a disconnect in the system.

Watch this:

This whole corporate welfare thing is all about jealousy - take from the taxpayers, but don't touch my profits. Whats theirs is mine and whats mine is mine. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits. Its not justice, its selfishness. Course you avoided that whole discussion, didn't you.......

Has anyone noticed that the crowd is generally 20 somethings and 40+ somethings? Those of us in "Generation X" - labelled slackers and whatnot so long ago - are the ones that are keeping this country afloat. 99% my a$$ - OWS has had so many polls done in it - by the left and right both - and it consistently polls as hard, hard left. 30+% support violence to take from the "rich". 65% support government funded higher education and health care to all - regardless of the cost. Has anyone noticed that the opportunities for 20 somethings are not there like they were for 20 somethings in generations past because of the situation they're protesting? You don't think they're going to be a little pissed off over that fact? There's been studies that have shown that this will be the first generation to earn less than their parents. You don't think that something's changed?

Its nothing more than the old hippies and the new hippies, just with different hairdo's, screaming in the streets like they did in the 60's, while the silent majority looks on with disdain. The silent majority will speak again soon. And the left won't like it. The silent majority is dying off every day, taking with it the fear and hatred and ignorance that it revels in.

If government oversight failed - why is more government oversight the answer then Mookie?
Did you read anything I posted? If lack of government oversight helped cause the failure, how is more lack of it the answer?

[JU_88]

I watched the whole thing. Its not a conspiracy theory. It is however a purely leftist presentation of the facts..

In what way? Can we not step out side the left/right box for 30 minutes?
He is hardly a communist for crying out loud. there is no suggestion of his political alignment at all.


The first 4 minutes is all about how corporations are evil and lists isolated scandals as if they are pervasive. ..

And we can prove these scandles are not pervasive because...?
I agree thta intro is presented as a bit of a cliche, but the content of the interview has no bearing on 'leftism' or 'rightism' he is not placing the blame on either side of the spetrum,


At around 5:20 the interviewee admits that the issue was the SEC failing to do its job. Later, in the 7:00-8:00 minute time frame, the same is repeated.

It proves what I have said elsewhere - the corporations are not the problem - the problem is in the governmental construct (the SEC) that has failed in ITS job to oversee business.
.

I fail to see the contradiction here. It seems the interviewer confirmed what you already believe? I dont understand your point.
If co-operations were not a problem - there wouldnt need to be a SEC in the first place. Yes the SEC failed, and the result is what? the co-operations do as they please. :dead:

Its propoganda - easily punctured by fact .

Which 'facts' are those?
How can you be so 100% sure that this is the propoganda and what you believe is not?
This guy is telling us what he has seen the going on first hand, are we to believe he has fabricated the whole thing? and if so for what purpose, whats in it for him exacly?

[soopaman2]

The thing is with government cabinet positions is they typically either came from or are aspiring to serve on the boards of companies they are supposed to regulate.

Look at the CEO of GE, the billionaire profits, tax evaders and subsidy abusers.

Man names Jeffrey Imelt runs it...He is also in charge of Barak Obammys so called jobs council...Conflict of interest anyone? No wonder we have 20% real unempkoyment here. The council to advise and provide is ran by an outsourcer and subsidy abuser. (yes I said it again)

Conflict of interest or....

Systematic corruption.

I choose the latter.

[August]

The silent majority is dying off every day, taking with it the fear and hatred and ignorance that it revels in.

Fear, hatred and ignorance? It sounds like you're describing your average OWS protestor to me...

[Gerald]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9619110.stm

[AVGWarhawk]

Its very very long, but I think everyone should watch this :nope: (Especially Americans)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?index=0&feature=PlayList&v=WHOujO-Qnlw&list=PL0E538EF1638B57DF


They make movies about this activity. Good video though. This activity happens at all levels of business. Just not on the same scale. So, this type of problem does not happen in other countries?

[JU_88]

They make movies about this activity. Good video though. This activity happens at all levels of business. Just not on the same scale. So, this type of problem does not happen in other countries?

Im sure it does, we are talking about multi-nationals after all, but thats not what this is focusing on in the video.

I almost find it frustrating seeing people continue to push the same tired old aguments, blame it on the Demos / Reps.
Its like watching a cat chase its own tail.
What happens when we have situations that don't fit inside this redundant partisan mindset?

Different puppet - same hand, even a child can see that they have both sold out, so which ever one youre gunning for - its pretty much academic really.
Private funding for political parties doesnt work, lobbyiest can virtually buy the policies they want.

[August]

So much for the "peaceful movement". Hey at least they didn't threaten to use guns eh Mookie?

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/101511_0115.jpg

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/101511_9883.jpg

[Tchocky]

It's always possible to pick out the most outrageous signs from a protest, we saw it happen plenty with the Tea Party protests earlier. I'll point out that I've seen more violent/unsettling things from Tea Party-associated rallies and such, but I'm pretty biased here.

The Tea Party object to being compared to OWS on grounds of incoherence and no settled message. They have mounted a fairly strong PR offensive to disavow any comparison. The TP aren't incoherent or unsettled now, but they certainly were once at the stage OWS are now, hence the grumpiness and anger about the comparison. I think the TP feel like they're not getting credit for growing as a political force.

[mookiemookie]

To quote tater from long ago:

Yeah, a couple hateful signs means that the the basic sentiment of the movement.

What % of all the signs were hateful. Be precise.

What does that % tell you about the other people there? That's right, nothing since there was zero control over who came.


But I'm sure it's completely different this time.

[soopaman2]

At least they aren't openly armed like the early Tea party raliies.

Screaming hate about Obama with guns on their hips.. Yeah much more moral than the OWS scumbuckets.

Take note of the shirt the first guy was wearing, call that bull.

[JU_88]

So much for the "peaceful movement". Hey at least they didn't threaten to use guns eh Mookie?

ahh stop clutching at straws, you dont really percieve that as threaterning in the slightest. :O: they look like they couldnt intimidate a child, much less a riot cop.

[AVGWarhawk]

Im sure it does, we are talking about multi-nationals after all, but thats not what this is focusing on in the video.

I almost find it frustrating seeing people continue to push the same tired old aguments, blame it on the Demos / Reps.
Its like watching a cat chase its own tail.
What happens when we have situations that don't fit inside this redundant partisan mindset?

Different puppet - same hand, even a child can see that they have both sold out, so which ever one youre gunning for - its pretty much academic really.
Private funding for political parties doesnt work, lobbyiest can virtually buy the policies they want.


I agree, it is the same old arguments. Same old good old boy network. I don't think it will change any time soon though.

[mookiemookie]

I agree, it is the same old arguments. Same old good old boy network. I don't think it will change any time soon though.

A little anecdote from my business: It's well known that if you want to make partner at Goldman Sachs, you have to leave to work for the government for a couple of years, and then come back to GS.

[flatsixes]

A little anecdote from my business: It's well known that if you want to make partner at Goldman Sachs, you have to leave to work for the government for a couple of years, and then come back to GS.

You don't know the half of it mook. Doing your two year stint in government service is a goddamned bonanza (http://www.forbes.com/2006/06/01/paulson-tax-loophole-cx_jh_0602paultax.html) for these guys.

That's why we say "Goldman Sachs has more stops in D.C. than the Metro."

[mookiemookie]

From a couple years ago...made me laugh

Goldman Sachs in Talks to Acquire Treasury Department
Sister Entities to Share Employees, Money

In what some on Wall Street are calling the biggest blockbuster deal in the history of the financial sector, Goldman Sachs confirmed today that it was in talks to acquire the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

According to Goldman spokesperson Jonathan Hestron, the merger between Goldman and the Treasury Department is "a good fit" because "they're in the business of printing money and so are we."

The Goldman spokesman said that the merger would create efficiencies for both entities: "We already have so many employees and so much money flowing back and forth, this would just streamline things."

Mr. Hestron said the only challenge facing Goldman in completing the merger "is trying to figure out which parts of the Treasury Dept. we don't already own."

Goldman recently celebrated record earnings by roasting a suckling pig over a bonfire of hundred-dollar bills.

http://www.borowitzreport.com/2009/07/16/goldman-sachs-in-talks-to/

[JU_88]

Well Lockheed Martin are now contracted to run the census here in the UK. :woot:
lol our governents are going for a complete Cooperate take over, Ill proabably be voting for the Mcdonalds Party come next election :D
Seriously though... what a bunch of sell outs.

[Tribesman]

ahh stop clutching at straws, you dont really percieve that as threaterning in the slightest. :O: they look like they couldnt intimidate a child, much less a riot cop.
The top one isn't threatening at all, he is reminiscing about the job he used to have in the stationary office.

[AVGWarhawk]

The top one isn't threatening at all, he is reminiscing about the job he used to have in the stationary office.

Also known as the mail room. :haha:

[August]

To quote tater from long ago:



But I'm sure it's completely different this time.

I was just addressing claims made on this board that you don't see such signs at OWS protests. Obviously these signs show that is not true right?

[JU_88]

Signs dont kill people, people kill people. :03:

[August]

Signs dont kill people, people kill people. :03:

Not quite my English friend.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-29/news/chi-motorcyclist-hits-construction-sign-is-killed-20110629_1_motorcyclist-construction-site-major-injuries

[Tchocky]

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

[mookiemookie]

Now money's being occupied:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6214/6239420178_47f47c2a56_o.jpg

[Tribesman]

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
Especially Hay rappers, they can be deadly

[JU_88]

Not quite my English friend.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-29/news/chi-motorcyclist-hits-construction-sign-is-killed-20110629_1_motorcyclist-construction-site-major-injuries

No -he killed him self because HE drove in to the sign, the sign didnt attck him! :)

Hey actually that reminds me or an insurance claim quote,
"The telephone pole was approaching fast. I was attempting to swerve out of its path when it struck my front end."
you might enjoy thie site it came from, some great ones on there :D
http://rinkworks.com/said/insurance.shtml

[August]

No -he killed him self because HE drove in to the sign, the sign didnt attck him! :)

Guns don't jump up and shoot people on their own either.

[JU_88]

Guns don't jump up and shoot people on their own either.

I know they dont, i never said they did :)
I was just having a laugh, I wasnt hasve a dig at anyone whos pro-gun or anything, hell I'd love to have my own gun somtimes, A Spas 12 would be sweet! or maybe an M-60, (just incase civil unrest ever reaches my front door...... :O:)

[August]

I know they dont, i never said they did :)
I was just having a laugh, I wasnt hasve a dig at anoyone whos pro-gun, hell I'd love to have my own gun somtimes, A Spas 12 would be sweet! :O:


Hey if it only saves one protestor... :03:

Nice scatter-gun. I favor a solid stock though because if you think about it the bullets are only one part of the weapon.

[MothBalls]

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.Tupac and Biggie might disagree with this, guns killed them.

[TLAM Strike]

Guns don't jump up and shoot people on their own either.
:hmmm:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6241/bouncingbetty.gif

:O:

[Sailor Steve]

Tupac and Biggie might disagree with this, guns killed them.
Really? Did the guns hunt them down? Did the guns have a grudge against them?

[Buddahaid]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd52/sirwinpb/psychologist_cartoon_gun_confessions.jpg

[JU_88]

as far as guns go - I agree with Eddie Izzard. :O:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsN0FCXw914

[Sailor Steve]

He's right, but...

Cars kill a lot more people than guns do. Where's the outrage?

[Morts]

He's right, but...

Cars kill a lot more people than guns do. Where's the outrage?
Cars werent made to take lives im guessing

[Krauter]

:hmmm:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6241/bouncingbetty.gif

:O:

I believe that's more of an explosive then a gun :D
:O:

[MothBalls]

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Tupac and Biggie might disagree with this, guns killed them.

Really? Did the guns hunt them down? Did the guns have a grudge against them?ooops, that's why I get for drinking and posting. At least I wasn't driving.:cool:

[soopaman2]

ooops, that's why I get for drinking and posting. At least I wasn't driving.:cool:


It's ok. I can understand your grief

Tupac and Biggie was a great loss. Rap today is pure sheiss since they left us. Yes I am a white guy.:D

[Penguin]

Cars kill a lot more people than guns do.

The difference is cars do it on their own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TpH79Q7dh4 :know:

[Tchocky]

ooops, that's why I get for drinking and posting. At least I wasn't driving.:cool:

Hey, I was just remembering some awful tune from long ago ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXzFp1lshBE

[Sea Demon]

I was just addressing claims made on this board that you don't see such signs at OWS protests. Obviously these signs show that is not true right?

Or this at an Oakland OWS event:

http://bigjournalism.com/abreitbart/2011/10/20/source-abc-reporters-life-allegedly-threatened-at-occupy-oakland-we-shoot-white-bitches-like-you-around-here/

reader in the San Francisco East Bay area who informed us that a local reporter***8217;s life had been threatened by an activist at the Occupy Oakland demonstration.We shoot white b*****s like you around here.

Scum of the Earth.

[Tribesman]

Scum of the Earth
Don't talk about Beitbart like that, he is only making money peddling crap to the gullible, it doesn't make him that scummy.
But I never knew a suit could prevent you getting maimed by a vicious dog:yawn:
This could be a major story...but its only from our anonymous source even though lots of reporters were there and the police allegedly were there and say nothing and the reporter who alledgedly was there says nothing ...but hey it could be a big story if more people reported on a anonymous source a wingnut dug up :rotfl2:

[Torplexed]

http://media.salon.com/2011/10/occupy-tundra-460x307.jpg

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QFBTP00.htm

When Alaskan Diane McEachern heard about the Occupy Wall Street protests, she thought, "How can I get in on that?"

Soon after, she marched onto the tundra near her home, where she was photographed with a homemade cardboard sign bearing her protest message: "Occupy the Tundra."

Little did McEachern, 52, know then that her solo effort -- and the photo of herself bundled up against the cold and holding her sign, with her three rescue dogs by her side -- would become one of the more famous images of the Occupy Wall Street protest movement.Occupy the Tundra. This should keep those capitalist caribou in check. :D

[nikimcbee]

http://media.salon.com/2011/10/occupy-tundra-460x307.jpg

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QFBTP00.htm

Occupy the Tundra. This should keep those capitalist caribou in check. :D

A new "occupy" movement has arisen.

http://www.ktrh.com/pages/michaelberry.html?article=9277029

[Gerald]

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/10/18/nyregion/100000001121044/a-night-in-zuccotti-park.html?ref=nyregion

[TarJak]

The madness spreads: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/protesters-arrested-as-chaos-descends-on-cbd-20111021-1mb07.html

Occupy Melbourne protesters were arrested today after around 5 hours of sit in protest in Civic Square.

[Gerald]

Good thing the police have something to do, :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Reece are you with this....if so I hope this is better be important :hmmm:

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15406865

[CaptainHaplo]

Targetting religion without making it so obvious on top of everything else... And people don't see this group as extreme.

[Tribesman]

Targetting religion without making it so obvious on top of everything else
If there was a park which was the available open space by the Stock exchange would they be targetting parks?
If it was a pub car park there would they be targetting pubs?

And people don't see this group as extreme.
People view this group for what they are, you seem to be viewing them for something they are not.

[mookiemookie]

Interesting read on the situation from BCA Investment Research

The Occupy Wall Street movement is rooted in the secular decline of the American middle class. Judging from the GINI coefficient, the distribution of income is more unequal in the U.S. than OECD countries in general. Moreover, real wage growth in the U.S. has stagnated since 2000, while education and healthcare costs have soared. High education costs have serious social repercussions since they are a strong drag on upward class mobility.

While it is currently impossible to boil down the Occupy Wall Street movement to a single issue, it is a symptom of deepening social strife, political polarization and spreading discontent in the U.S. These are ingredients that, if left unchecked, can lead to potentially radical shifts in policy made to score political points with the extremes, rather than to address underlying economic problems. Both the extreme right and left of the political spectrum will be energized by genuine social discontent - which can nonetheless translate into completely opposing policy preferences - leading to further political polarization. If the clash between left and right intensifies, policy making will become even more difficult. This would mean a heightened political and policy risk premium on equity prices among all G7 markets.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Total-Wages.gif

[Jimbuna]

A spokesman for the cathedral - which costs £20,000 per day to run and draws between 2,000 and 3,000 worshippers each Sunday - said it would lose about £16,000 in visitor donations for every day it is closed.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15415296

Despite the above, the spokesman refused to be critical of the protestors when interviewed on camera this evening.

[Tribesman]

Despite the above, the spokesman refused to be critical of the protestors when interviewed on camera this evening.
That is because the clergy at the cathedral have been backing the protests.
Strange targeting of religon eh.

[TarJak]

Particularly as it was because the protesters were unable to access the privately owned square in front of the London Stock Exchange and the Cathederal actually advised them they could set up camp in front of St. Pauls.

Arrests now in Sydney: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-deny-excessive-force-used-in-occupy-sydney-raid-20111023-1me59.html

[Jimbuna]

They've now moved away from directly in front of the cathedral and some protestors are actually cleaning the steps.

Cathedral should be partially open today.

[Gerald]

The protests begin to decline now.

[CaptainHaplo]

Its getting colder, wait till they start protesting that the gubment should be providing them with heaters so they can stay warm.....

[August]

Its getting colder, wait till they start protesting that the gubment should be providing them with heaters so they can stay warm.....

Or start tearing off limbs from park trees and bushes.

[AVGWarhawk]

The protest seems to be getting a bit old and stale. The news will get bored with it. Soon to be back page fodder. Still not certain what these folks want.

[JU_88]

The protest seems to be getting a bit old and stale. The news will get bored with it. Soon to be back page fodder. Still not certain what these folks want.

If we have another recession or worse, an all out crash, banks will collapes and millions of people have their lifes work, savings and pensions wiped out - if our goverments continue to prop them up with bail outs at our expense (and punish no one)....
....They will no longer be 'occupying' Wallstreet, they will be burning it to the ground.
I'll think it will become crystal clear to you then....

[AVGWarhawk]

If we have another recession, more banks collapes and millions of people have their savings and pensions wiped out - while our goverments continue to prop them up with bail outs at our expense (and punish no one).
I'll think it will become crystal clear to you then.... also, expect large scale civil unrest if this happens.
Next time they will not be 'occupying' Wallstreet, they will be burning it to the ground.

What is crystal clear is repeating the same mistake should not occur. Hence Congress not passing the current jobs bill or any other nonsense that comes from PA Avenue. More stimulus after bad stimulus is not in the game plan and should not be. It's clear enough. The protest is still getting old.

Civil unrest? Stop paying unemployment benefits and see the unrest start. Hence the extension after extension after extension. Currently the new career market is on the government plan.

Again, they should be burning Washington. DC gave Wall St a lollipop. Wall St is not sharing. What did they expect? DC sits on their thumbs doing nothing but agreeing and attempting to keep their own political careers by backing OWS. The epitome of stupidity.

[August]

....They will no longer be 'occupying' Wallstreet, they will be burning it to the ground.
I'll think it will become crystal clear to you then....

That sounds like a threat. Well 79 years ago here in the US there was similar unrest. Look what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWvCCxOUsM8

[JU_88]

That sounds like a threat. Well 79 years ago here in the US there was similar unrest. Look what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWvCCxOUsM8

A threat? the only threat is our entire monetary system, which is a ticking time bomb. Im saying when it goes down. there will me huge civil unrest, and possibly martial law to follow up.
If you worked your whole life, and your savings where wiped out, tell me what you would do?
I have a link for you too August: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D71aiYq7jeM

[CaptainHaplo]

The rate of millionaires in the senate is 140x greater than the per capita rate. 140x....

So why is it that OWS is boycotting in cities - but not washington again?

So what your saying is - that when the country goes broke because of Obamacare, refusals to reform social programs, bailouts to banks and gm, loan guarantees to solyndra and sunpower and electric car companies that produce cars in Europe, and you cant get a job because the EPA won't let business exist - your going to riot in the street because its all the fault of the rich?

Yea.... ok.....

That makes sense...

[tater]

To quote tater from long ago:

But I'm sure it's completely different this time.

Are you suggesting that I have said these idiots are monolithic, and have a single purpose? I have said nothing of the sort. If these groups come up with an official platform, then you can hold them accountable for anything in it (wanting their college loans forgiven, for example, lol). Other than that, they are a scattered bunch, as was the tea party.

That said, it would be worth looking at the handful who are actually sleeping there to see if they have more overlap than the sort of people who show up for a 1 hour tea party rally. I have no idea, myself, but it might be interesting to know if there was some acorn-like organization someplace.

[1480]

The rate of millionaires in the senate is 140x greater than the per capita rate. 140x....

So why is it that OWS is boycotting in cities - but not washington again?

So what your saying is - that when the country goes broke because of Obamacare, refusals to reform social programs, bailouts to banks and gm, loan guarantees to solyndra and sunpower and electric car companies that produce cars in Europe, and you cant get a job because the EPA won't let business exist - your going to riot in the street because its all the fault of the rich?

Yea.... ok.....

That makes sense...

OMG I nearly rubbed one out....:rock:

People seem to think they can reinvent the wheel when they come out of college. The universities in the US are rife with professors who are nothing short of radical leftist cowards. No, I did not stereotype there. People who have done nothing in their lives but regurgitate information to developing minds and sitting around with others of the academia to posit their own inane arguments.

Who judges the worth of an educator? Of course, their own peers. Parents at this level of their child's education do not inquire much about what they are learning as they did in grade and high school. As long as their kid is putting up the grades, they are happy. This is where the socialist, liberal and progressive ideologues can shape the future into their own little fantasy land.

In order to test a theory in social sciences, one may destroy a great society because they do not agree with it. :down:


(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideologue#)

[tater]

Yeah, let's lump everyone together and make sweeping generalizations. That's the hallmark of a great argument.

The protesters happily lump those of us in the"1%," don't they? We have jets and yachts, apparently (wish someone would tell me where mine is tied down, I'm sick of Southwest).

Statements like this are why your posts are always so head shakingly funny. if it was easy to be rich, then everyone would be rich.

The point is that you need not even be skilled in the town that contains Wall Street. Most I've heard about OWS has been Planet Money, and other NPR stuff. The majority of the interviewees have been college educated. For the college educated, it is indeed fairly easy to get into the 1% if you make your goal income***8212;because they are already in the top % of people by virtue of their educations, for them it is not the top 1%, but the top ~4% for those with degrees (~27% of people have a degree). Their chances for top 1% get higher with advanced degrees. Have a 2-income family (most) and those chances double. "Top 1%" is a bumper sticker. The difference between that and the top 5% (or even 10%) is functionally nil. top 10% where virtually all are in the 27% with degrees...

It's not easy at large, but it is far easier for the protesters since they seem to be people in college (or already done) in a city where 200 grand a year means you get to live in a studio apartment.

Why don't you quote the average pay for stagehands, which is $9.79 an hour. Oh, I get it, quoting an outlier like it's the average makes your argument look strong. Righty-o. I gave the average pay for 2 halls at LC. It was 290k. Average. (least that's what the article said for Avery Fisher, etc).


BTW, it was not my post about the WSJ polling of the 200 people sleeping there, but they are the core, and polling them is entirely legitimate. They pack up, and this fades away. They are the drivers, and what they think matters more in terms of what the movement is actually for. Many that show up "in support" probably don't even know what those sleeping there actually want.

[AVGWarhawk]

A threat? the only threat is our entire monetary system, which is a ticking time bomb. Im saying when it goes down. there will me huge civil unrest, and possibly martial law to follow up.
If you worked your whole life, and your savings where wiped out, tell me what you would do?
I have a link for you too August: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D71aiYq7jeM


I posted it before and will again, if it were not for unemployment benefits there would be civil unrest. Hence the extension after extension. I think we are up to 2 years of receiving benefits. This benefit is about to be extended again.
Civil unrest occurred in the Great Depression were there was soup kitchen lines and no government monetary benefits. If we truly think the benefit extension is approved for 2 years plus because the politicians really care I would say our thinking is full of fallacy. It is done to prevent soup lines and civil unrest.

[August]

A threat? the only threat is our entire monetary system


"Our" entire monetary system? I wasn't aware you Brits got paid in US Greenbacks.

[CCIP]

OMG I nearly rubbed one out....:rock:

People seem to think they can reinvent the wheel when they come out of college. The universities in the US are rife with professors who are nothing short of radical leftist cowards. No, I did not stereotype there. People who have done nothing in their lives but regurgitate information to developing minds and sitting around with others of the academia to posit their own inane arguments.

Who judges the worth of an educator? Of course, their own peers. Parents at this level of their child's education do not inquire much about what they are learning as they did in grade and high school. As long as their kid is putting up the grades, they are happy. This is where the socialist, liberal and progressive ideologues can shape the future into their own little fantasy land.

In order to test a theory in social sciences, one may destroy a great society because they do not agree with it. :down:


(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideologue#)



I'm incredibly offended at this post :down:

What about people who've done not got any substantial education their whole life, don't know their right from their left, their history from their fiction - are they perhaps better-prepared to lead a great society? People who've been shaped by Fox News and sloganizing ****less right-wing ideologues who don't even know the basics of their own history - much better? Let the country be shaped by a general lack of theory and blind practice, perhaps? What basis do you have for making this stupid generalization, anyway?

I'm sorry but as much as I'd be the first to criticize the university system, this is really barking up the wrong tree here. What's more, you're being incredibly unfair.

[mookiemookie]

I'm incredibly offended at this post :down:

What about people who've done not got any substantial education their whole life, don't know their right from their left, their history from their fiction - are they perhaps better-prepared to lead a great society? People who've been shaped by Fox News and sloganizing ****less right-wing ideologues who don't even know the basics of their own history - much better? Let the country be shaped by a general lack of theory and blind practice, perhaps? What basis do you have for making this stupid generalization, anyway?

I'm sorry but as much as I'd be the first to criticize the university system, this is really barking up the wrong tree here. What's more, you're being incredibly unfair.

Clearly the answer is to go back to oral histories told around a campfire. Education and science are for the liberal elitists.

[CCIP]

Also, just for the record, f-e-c-k-less is not a swearword. I wouldn't be cursing like that :dead:

I guess it's the same curse as those ****less ****e-Wulf and ****er airplanes that the Germans were famed for! :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

At least this forum is smart enough not to censor **** O'Kane, as the Ubi forum does.

[CaptainHaplo]

I'm incredibly offended at this post :down:

What about people who've done not got any substantial education their whole life, don't know their right from their left, their history from their fiction - are they perhaps better-prepared to lead a great society? People who've been shaped by Fox News and sloganizing ****less right-wing ideologues who don't even know the basics of their own history - much better? Let the country be shaped by a general lack of theory and blind practice, perhaps? What basis do you have for making this stupid generalization, anyway?

I'm sorry but as much as I'd be the first to criticize the university system, this is really barking up the wrong tree here. What's more, you're being incredibly unfair.

Oh - so the people who are shaped by Fox News and sloganizing ****less right wing ideologues are the problem - but the people who are shaped by professors in universities who have never done any real work in their life outside academia (and remember - communism looks great academically - its simply in the real world the system fails) - who are sloganized by the ****less left wing ideologues should be the ones to be heard, right? Yea, not doing that would be "incredilbly unfair"......

Note - I did use the term f-e-c-k-l-e-s-s in case the filter freaks out.

[CCIP]

I didn't say anything particularly in the defense of the actual type of people you're referring to - but I did say that type is an unfair generalization. It's a fiction. It's something that someone with very little understanding and very little interest in anything other than sloganeering and generalization would come up with. If that's how you really see professional academics, I say that you know nothing about the education system nor about left-wing beliefs.

Understandably, I'm offended as someone who works in education and as someone who holds left-leaning beliefs. I don't take kindly to me or my colleagues being singled out as xxxx-less in a generalized and summary manner. Particularly the suggestion that any political beliefs or theoretical concepts social scientists have are a result of self-delusion and lack of contact with the real world. Sorry, but it's at this point that I get offended. Who are you to say that? What do you know about the real world and where does your knowledge come from? How do you know that people like myself live in some sort of sheltered shell? Sorry, but this runs sharply and painfully against my own personal experience. And again, I say that as someone who's in no romance with academia as such; but don't you touch the people. To me this rings about as fair and appropriate as someone running around yelling "baby killers" at US soldiers. And if some academics did something that, okay, they deserve flak personally. If they really are spoiled marxist brats, sure. But people like me and my many colleagues don't deserve this for what they may have done. And, I assure you, they are a small minority.

[1480]

I didn't say anything particularly in the defense of the actual type of people you're referring to - but I did say that type is an unfair generalization. It's a fiction. It's something that someone with very little understanding and very little interest in anything other than sloganeering and generalization would come up with. If that's how you really see professional academics, I say that you know nothing about the education system nor about left-wing beliefs.

Understandably, I'm offended as someone who works in education and as someone who holds left-leaning beliefs. I don't take kindly to me or my colleagues being singled out as xxxx-less in a generalized and summary manner. Particularly the suggestion that any political beliefs or theoretical concepts social scientists have are a result of self-delusion and lack of contact with the real world. Sorry, but it's at this point that I get offended. Who are you to say that? What do you know about the real world and where does your knowledge come from? How do you know that people like myself live in some sort of sheltered shell? Sorry, but this runs sharply and painfully against my own personal experience. And again, I say that as someone who's in no romance with academia as such; but don't you touch the people. To me this rings about as fair and appropriate as someone running around yelling "baby killers" at US soldiers. And if some academics did something that, okay, they deserve flak personally. If they really are spoiled marxist brats, sure. But people like me and my many colleagues don't deserve this for what they may have done. And, I assure you, they are a small minority.

CCIP, are you a Candian citizen or US? I stated US universities. Secondly I stated rife with, NOT all. If you do not fit in that mold, I give you my thanks. Unfortunately that is what I encountered when I pursued my undergrad degree is sociology, I know ironic. It is my opinion, from my observations. Spirited discourse and inter locution amongst folks who can actually form an argument and back them up is what the world needs right now more than anything else.

Gravity is something I can observe, feel and explain. It cannot be slanted by a professor's attitude or feelings about it.

Social theories are not so much, but can be skewed heavily by the person who is teaching it. Now you add statistics in the mix and you open up that can o' worms.

My main beef with academia (other than pure sciences) is that there is a huge disconnect with theory and what actually happens in real life. It's a laugh roaring riot when you have a new social worker or crisis counselor working in an ER. They are shocked when you suggest that a person is lying. Fast forward 6 months later and they have their epiphany. Utopia only exists in the minds of the misguided.

I forgot my credentials: BA in sociology, 19 year veteran of the 2nd largest police department in the US who has been a field sergeant for the last 4 of those years.

[JU_88]

"Our" entire monetary system? I wasn't aware you Brits got paid in US Greenbacks.

Your Monetary system is the same one as ours!

[CaptainHaplo]

I didn't say anything particularly in the defense of the actual type of people you're referring to - but I did say that type is an unfair generalization. It's a fiction.

Understandably, I'm offended as someone who works in education and as someone who holds left-leaning beliefs. I don't take kindly to me or my colleagues being singled out as xxxx-less in a generalized and summary manner..

So you don't like the "unfair generalization", the "fiction" or being singled out as "xxxx-less in a generalized and summary manner." - yet somehow you seem to think that your generalizations about those who watch Fox news and lean to the right (aka - sloganized) should somehow not be offended at your words?

If you don't like generalizations - its probably best to not make them about your political opponents. Or is it ok just because "he did it to you first"? Point out that its an inaccurate generalization, give examples that break the stereotype, be prepared to debate the matter and move forward. Slinging the same mud doesn't make you look "more correct".

[August]

Your Monetary system is the same one as ours!

Not unless we share a mint and a central bank it ain't.

[mookiemookie]

Not unless we share a mint and a central bank it ain't.

I believe he's talking about fiat currency.

[August]

I believe he's talking about fiat currency.

It's still two separate systems.