Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested [Archive]

Gerald

10-02-11, 10:50 AM

Demonstrator Henry-James Ferry: "'The police moved in with orange mesh barricade". Footage courtesy Robert Cammiso.

More than 700 people from the Occupy Wall Street protest movement have been arrested on New York's City's Brooklyn Bridge, police say.

They were part of a larger group crossing the bridge from Manhattan, where they have been camped out near Wall Street for two weeks.

Some entered the bridge's roadway and were met by a large police presence and detained, most for disorderly conduct.

The loosely-organised group is protesting against corporate greed.

They say they are defending 99% of the US population against the wealthiest 1%.

Occupy Wall Street called for 20,000 people to "flood into lower Manhattan" on 17 September and remain there for "a few months".

Several hundred remain camped at Zuccotti Park, a privately owned area of land not far from Wall Street.

A police spokesman quoted by Reuters said the arrests came "after multiple warnings by police were given to protesters to stay on the pedestrian walkway".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15140671

Note: 2 October 2011 Last updated at 06:26 GMT

Betonov

10-03-11, 07:40 AM

It looks like the biggest jaywalking incident in history :DL

Gerald

10-03-11, 09:09 AM

Just as practicing for the marathon, :D

soopaman2

10-03-11, 09:24 AM

the_tyrant

10-03-11, 09:42 AM

on one hand, by arresting them you are infringing on their right of peaceful protest

on the other hand, they are infringing on other's right of free movement

Rockstar

10-03-11, 10:04 AM

These jaywalkers were not arrested because they were protesting therefore their rights were not trampled. They were arrested for jaywalking and impeding the flow of traffic. They should do time and be put to work painting the bridge and sweeping streets

soopaman2

10-03-11, 10:08 AM

These jaywalkers should do time and be put to work painting the bridge and sweeping streets

I guess that means you already have yours, and don't care that Wall Street lost what was everyone elses (and still got phat bonuses at the end of the day, thanks to people like me who pay taxes to bail them out, and barely get by).

This Wall street mess affects the world. I'm glad your happy in your hamlet, but a large percentage of us are not happy in our cardboard box.

Betonov

10-03-11, 10:30 AM

soopaman2

10-03-11, 10:38 AM

:agree:

I like this guy, his critical of his goverment :DL

And Rockstar is also right :hmmm: they could have costed someone elses job for making them late for work. But I also wonder, would the police be so vigilant in their arrests if the protests werent aimed at their corporate overlords

Bingo! as Hans Landa said.

The mayor of New York City is Micheal Bloomberg, a man who made his fortune on Wall Street, also the owner of Bloomberg News. 2 plus 2 is 4, unless your on Wall Street, then 2 plus 2 is whatever you can fool someone into thinking it is.

joea

10-03-11, 10:40 AM

Bingo! as Hans Landa said.

The mayor of New York City is Micheal Bloomberg, a man who made his fortune on Wall Street, also the owner of Bloomberg News. 2 plus 2 is 4, unless your on Wall Street, then 2 plus 2 is whatever you can fool someone into thinking it is.
That I did not know! :hmmm: :x

Ducimus

10-03-11, 12:16 PM

Betonov

10-03-11, 12:24 PM

Small busineses that are the bright star of capitalism will suffer when rioting begins, big business will bunker down and wait until it everything dies down and damage will be done to the ones that suffer the most because of the reasons this protests began.

mookiemookie

10-03-11, 12:26 PM

I'd be surprised if that protest has any effect, or isn't snuffed out in one way or another. Money equals power, and wall street has lots of it. I think constitutional right's won't make much of difference in our system with it's many loopholes.

I don't think any of the protesters have any illusions of changing the system overnight. But it's a start. These people have decided that the status quo isn't good enough and that it's an unfair system that exploits people to line the pockets of the rich and powerful.

Don't think for a minute that common people coming together can't change things. The labor movement of the early 20th century, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam war protests - they were all about the little people getting in the face of those in power, and yes, people are going to be arrested for doing it. Yes, the police will try and crack down on it. But if they didn't could it really be called civil disobedience?

That's why the Tea Party was the joke that it was. It was astroturfing and its agenda set by the wealthy and those in power. It was a costume party and nothing more.

I'm all for anything that sticks it to the Corporatocracy. This country is being taken from us, and some rubes think its being taken by the immigrants or the socialists or the environmentalists or whatever boogeyman those in power want you to think it is, just so you don't realize that it's them doing the taking.

And there's my political grandstanding soapbox moment for the day.

soopaman2

10-03-11, 01:20 PM

I'd be surprised if that protest has any effect, or isn't snuffed out in one way or another. Money equals power, and wall street has lots of it. I think constitutional right's won't make much of difference in our system with it's many loopholes.

yes sir Ducimus. That is my fear. We want a better country and world for all, ruled by fairness in law for everyone. If a business messes up and fails, then it dies. That is how capitalism is supposed to work. not to be bailed out, then raise fees on debit cards like Bank of America did. And not loan after being given close to zero percent interest by the federal reserve. They took that money to play the stock market with, rather than lend to small business. (small business is where a massive majority of employment comes from)

The privatize the profits, and socialize the losses thing is why they are out there. It's not fair for the struggling to pay for the excesses of the sloppy bankers.

You all in Europe are paying for Wall Streets profligacy too, this garbage with the Euro and Greece is an indirect result of people playing war games with money.

It's not just America who has to gain from this protest. And it is in more cities than just New York at this point.

JU_88

10-03-11, 01:41 PM

Yep, everyone ignores protestors... until they have a riot, not that that works either, since the orginal protest message gets drowned in condemnation of the violence.

Anyway its too late, all im hearing now are alarm bells to stock up on supplies and secure assets because we are on the brink of a global economic meltdown that will make 2008 look like a picnic.
Plus we have solar flares and a possible polar shift.... on paper 2012 is looking to be a very crappy year indeed :down:

gimpy117

10-03-11, 03:10 PM

Good for them, it is entering it's 3rd week and the media can't ignore it anymore. It is our right to demand better governance...
...As of now corporations and banks hold too much sway over Americas political system, citizens are systematically ignored by our so called "representatives" in favor of moneyed interest.

More should stand up, I sent 5 pizzas down there yesterday, it's small but I'm sure quite a few were grateful.

Maybe the media will stop calling them dirty hippies like they did to the Vietnam protesters, they are college students, war veterans, blue collar workers who watched thier pensions evaporate. They are PEOPLE standing up for thier rights as human beings.

Edit:On a side note today they are marching to City hall to let Bloomberg (the same owners of Bloomberg news, and Wall street billionaire) know this isn't ending. And look up Anthony Bologna (Tony Boloney) on you tube, and see how a supervisor rushed to mace peaceful protesters.

Bought and paid for by Mayor Bloombergs Billions.

I agree with you man. lots of people look at these protests and say "well who are you to dislike the wealthy, There is nothing wrong with profit" and that may be true, but in my mind there is something wrong with profit which is made unfairly at the expense of others whilst congress is too busy being bribed to do anything about it. Sure, There are winners and losers in business, but that saying has always been in the context of a level playing field, which i feel america is not anymore, due to the level of palm greasing in Washington. The saying "winners and losers" does also in my eyes not really apply in the context of all the predatory banking, loans, and business that is being done these days either, as congress sits idly by, counting campaign contributions and lobby gifts.

Rockstar

10-03-11, 04:14 PM

I guess that means you already have yours, and don't care that Wall Street lost what was everyone elses (and still got phat bonuses at the end of the day, thanks to people like me who pay taxes to bail them out, and barely get by).

This Wall street mess affects the world. I'm glad your happy in your hamlet, but a large percentage of us are not happy in our cardboard box.

LOL ya I got mine, riiiight. If you have a case against someone then state it. But I have to tell ya using me for an example only makes you look foolish.

As an American and I am considered by some chart to live at the poverty level but to my friends in Kenya I live like a king because I have running water. I don't own a home, my back yard is where ever I happen to be. I like simplicity and I don't have anything for anyone to take. I don't work to collect crap for shelves and closets. I work to provide for needs with a treat sometimes in between.

For centuries people have worked for the sole reason to obtain things. They live cut throat lives coveting money, collecting crap they don't need and live in mansions that would house dozens of people. But ya know what Soopaman2 that's fine by me because I have absolutely no desire to live like that nor do I expect them to give me what they spent their lives working to obtain.

Now you may think you deserve what they worked for so you can move into a wooden box like them. But as for me, I like what I have and I wouldn't trade for the world.

Now are you protesting for the right to put on a suit and tie to go and work like them? Or are you protesting for the right to get them to give you things because you're to stupid to put on a suit and tie and work like them?

soopaman2

10-03-11, 04:23 PM

LOL ya I got mine, riiiight. If you have a case against someone then state it. But I have to tell ya using me for an example only makes you look foolish.

As an American and I am considered by some chart to live at the poverty level but to my friends in Kenya I live like a king because I have running water. I don't own a home, my back yard is where ever I happen to be. I like simplicity and I don't have anything for anyone to take. I don't work to collect crap for shelves and closets. I work to provide for needs with a treat sometimes in between.

For centuries people have worked for the sole reason to obtain things. They live cut throat lives coveting money, collecting crap they don't need and live in mansions that would house dozens of people. But ya know what Soopaman2 that's fine by me because I have absolutely no desire to live like that nor do I expect them to give me whats spent their lives working to obtain.

Now you may think you deserve what they worked for so you can move into a wooden box like them. But as for me I like what I have and I wouldn't trade for the world.

I'm happy with my life, and want nothing I didn't earn, they (protesters) don't either. I think your trying to call me a socialist? Typical right wing method.

I just want my future secured, i want the pension I paid into all my life to be there, and not gambled away by shylocks. Because when they lose it, their feet are not held to the fire, rather they are given bailouts using our taxpayer money that can be put into better things. Like back into SSI that we all pay into but the government keeps giving away to its pork projects and wars.

No money for SSI that Americans pay into, have to privatize it (so wall street can lose it) But plenty to feed the UN monster (that hates us) and to uphold 700 military bases around the world....

Dude enjoy the bliss.

edit: I reread my post and it come across as agressive, not my intention sir. Martin Niemoller (sp) comes to mind in this case.
the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

They will get to you eventually my friend. But I suppose we can agree to disagree. :)

yubba

10-03-11, 05:48 PM

So what, or who are these protestors, what are they protesting, they protest big government but want more government, that doesn't make scense, guess these folks aren't the Tea Party or it would be all over the news. So if these folks aren't the Tea Party then who are they ???????

Castout

10-03-11, 07:39 PM

Good for them, it is entering it's 3rd week and the media can't ignore it anymore. It is our right to demand better governance.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ***8212; That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ***8212; That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
-Excerpt from the American Declaration of independance.

As of now corporations and banks hold too much sway over Americas political system, citizens are systematically ignored by our so called "representatives" in favor of moneyed interest.

More should stand up, I sent 5 pizzas down there yesterday, it's small but I'm sure quite a few were grateful.

Maybe the media will stop calling them dirty hippies like they did to the Vietnam protesters, they are college students, war veterans, blue collar workers who watched thier pensions evaporate. They are PEOPLE standing up for thier rights as human beings.

Edit:On a side note today they are marching to City hall to let Bloomberg (the same owners of Bloomberg news, and Wall street billionaire) know this isn't ending. And look up Anthony Bologna (Tony Boloney) on you tube, and see how a supervisor rushed to mace peaceful protesters.

Bought and paid for by Mayor Bloombergs Billions.

There is no rights unless it is enforced. There's no law unless it is enforced. There is no state unless it is governed.

Thus the idea of liberty and rights will always be a struggle. A perpetual dynamic struggle of ideas in the people's mind and then in their practical day to day life.

It can be robbed, destroyed, denied or protected and ensured.
It's all up to the people consent whether they want to abdicate those rights and social contracts or they want to demand them to be held up.

In other words, constitution, rule of law, and rights all fall under the category of political ideas. They are intangible and not real. Of course they are the product of enlightened minds but they can be honored only by other enlightened minds as well. And that is a big ifs, generation in and generation out.

Torplexed

10-03-11, 07:47 PM

If all these Wall Street protesters look like her, I'm on the next plane. :D

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/6/648/64898.jpg

Rockstar

10-03-11, 08:44 PM

If all these Wall Street protesters look like her, I'm on the next plane. :D

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/6/648/64898.jpg

woof, where do I sign up?!

Gerald

10-03-11, 08:48 PM

If all these Wall Street protesters look like her, I'm on the next plane. :D

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/6/648/64898.jpg She is soooo young, but nice shoulder, :O:

Rockstar

10-03-11, 08:55 PM

You been duped by the people you're protesting just by paying into your pension, it just feeds the monster man. Stop paying into pensions quit using a credit card and save your money. Then you'll see Wall Street jump and ask how high on the way up. But like them you want your million too so you'll pay. Because it's what everyone else is doing, because you were told to, because they said you need it to retire. Good luck.

Gerald

10-03-11, 09:04 PM

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/10/01/nyregion/100000001084915/wall-street-protesters-speak.html?ref=nyregion

Gerald

10-04-11, 11:07 AM

As a man known as Mercury puts the finishing touches to his corporate zombie make up, he explains why he's joined the anti-capitalist protests here in the shadow of Wall Street."We are inspired by the Arab Spring. Americans have rights but they're too often apathetic." Welcome to Zuccotti Park, where the leaderless protest is now entering its third week. Sophie is here to protest about the execution of a Georgia man, Troy Davis.Will Estrella believes this is his generation's revolution.And Brian Phillips, a marine turned housing community official, wants to see the Federal Reserve abolished.The protesters aren't unified in their motivations or their demands, but they're tapping into discontent about inequalities in an America still struggling after one recession and fearful about entering a second.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15160953

Note: Update Record, 3 October 2011 Last updated at 22:58 GMT

MothBalls

10-04-11, 11:41 AM

If all these Wall Street protesters look like her, I'm on the next plane. :D

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/6/648/64898.jpgYou have a thing for short female police officers?

Oberon

10-04-11, 11:47 AM

You have a thing for short female police officers?

I dunno MB...where exactly is that aforementioned officer looking? :hmmm:

MothBalls

10-04-11, 11:53 AM

I dunno MB...where exactly is that aforementioned officer looking? :hmmm:Same place I was looking....

Sea Demon

10-04-11, 12:48 PM

Idiots on parade.....nothing more than that.

Gerald

10-04-11, 04:30 PM

A loose-knit populist campaign that started on Wall Street three weeks ago has spread to dozens of cities across the country, with protesters camped out in Los Angeles near City Hall, assembled before the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago and marching through downtown Boston to rally against corporate greed, unemployment and the role of financial institutions in the economic crisis. With little organization and a reliance on Facebook, Twitter and Google groups to share methods, the Occupy Wall Street campaign, as the prototype in New York is called, has clearly tapped into a deep vein of anger, experts in social movements said, bringing longtime crusaders against globalization and professional anarchists together with younger people frustrated by poor job prospects. “Rants based on discontents are the first stage of any movement,” said Michael Kazin, a professor of history at Georgetown University. But he said it was unclear if the current protests would lead to a lasting movement, which would require the newly unleashed passions to be channeled into institutions and shaped into political goals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/us/anti-wall-street-protests-spread-to-other-cities.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

Note: Update Record, October 3, 2011

mookiemookie

10-04-11, 09:45 PM

As a man known as Mercury puts the finishing touches to his corporate zombie make up

Idiots like this are not what this movement needs and are doing it more harm than good. They should stay home if this is how they want to support it. They make it too easy for the media to put these morons on TV and portray the whole as the hippie moron stereotype. They forget who they're fighting against - the corporate media, the masters of spin and image.

Good ideals, misplaced energy and execution. :nope:

Jimbuna

10-05-11, 10:27 AM

I dunno MB...where exactly is that aforementioned officer looking? :hmmm:

Looks like a female one too :o

Bubblehead1980

10-05-11, 11:15 AM

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 11:55 AM

Tribesman

10-05-11, 12:37 PM

Oh it's going to be so much fun drawing the Tea Party/OWS parallels here...
But its unfair to say the tea baggers are a bunch of retards, thats a real insult to retards.

Ducimus

10-05-11, 12:45 PM

Oh it's going to be so much fun drawing the Tea Party/OWS parallels here...
:haha:

Tchocky

10-05-11, 12:48 PM

frau kaleun

10-05-11, 12:51 PM

C'mon, guys, be fair. You know that comment probably sounded a lot better in the original German. :O:

soopaman2

10-05-11, 01:02 PM

Have you seen these retards? bunch of rejects with nothing better to do.Every one they try to talk too are incoherent idiots with no real idea, its mostly one big party.Sure the occasional dumb, naive hot girl is there but most of them are hipster scum.Should have seen the inarticulate retard they just had on the news lol, he allegedly just graduated college and found a job.Guy looked like a moby reject.

Basically a lot of trash on the streets of various cities.One time I kind of would not mind police doing some sweeping:arrgh!:
The same thing was said about the wretched tea party when it started. "A bunch of rascist rednecks" Now look at the repugnant-can party infested with them.

A Martin Neimoller quote... fits your blind kind perfectly. One day they will come for you, and no one will be there to stand . I suppose they are dirty hippies just like the Vietnam protestors were. Joey Goebbels would love to be in America, lots of silly willys around here. He wouldn't have to work as hard.

Keep letting the media skew your views, they ignored it for 2 weeks. Videos on you tube of cops macing sitting people put this in the spotlight. Is that what we do to peaceful-nonviolent protestors? Should we firehose them like we did the blacks in the 60s? Should we kill them all? How about internment camps for people you don't agree with.

This affects you too, your future may be secure, but your grandchildren will be slaves if this current cronyism between banks/insurance companies/wall street and government continues.

Do you know what the Citizens United decision is, and what it will and is currently doing to our political system?

And you call them rejects?

Bubblehead1980

10-05-11, 02:03 PM

The same thing was said about the wretched tea party when it started. "A bunch of rascist rednecks" Now look at the repugnant-can party infested with them.

A Martin Neimoller quote... fits your blind kind perfectly. One day they will come for you, and no one will be there to stand . I suppose they are dirty hippies just like the Vietnam protestors were. Joey Goebbels would love to be in America, lots of silly willys around here. He wouldn't have to work as hard.

Keep letting the media skew your views, they ignored it for 2 weeks. Videos on you tube of cops macing sitting people put this in the spotlight. Is that what we do to peaceful-nonviolent protestors? Should we firehose them like we did the blacks in the 60s? Should we kill them all? How about internment camps for people you don't agree with.

This affects you too, your future may be secure, but your grandchildren will be slaves if this current cronyism between banks/insurance companies/wall street and government continues.

Do you know what the Citizens United decision is, and what it will and is currently doing to our political system?

And you call them rejects?

The Tea Party is way different than this "social movement" of dirty, naive, and foolish kids(mostly) playing the working class hero BS.The Tea Party is a legitimate social movement advocating a return to the founding principles of the US Constitution.This movement is inherently left wing, now the unions and dumb celebs like Susan Sarandon etc are trying to get in on it, garbage.Oh yea, George Soros is involved as well.Yes plenty of dirty hippies like the Vietnam protesters, which were a particularly repugnant group of people.

Oh buddy, the media does not skew my views, I just do not care of the trash gathering and people trying top paint it as a legitimate social movement when it's a bunch of losers with nothing to do for the most part.I said nothing about we should firehose them, kill them etc, that would not right unless they began attacking or really causing trouble.Notice I said that I "kind of" would not the police doing some sweeping but my principles would prevent me from being for that.

Well I will be fine and my grandchildren will be fine if they do the right thing, it is called personal responsibility.The real enemy is the government trying to take from certain people to provide for people like the wall street protesters.Instead of being bitter, they could get their crap together and move up but they would rather blame those "evil bankers" etc and condemn a system that really has worked for majority of people because they are ignorant or just too stupid to understand how things work.

I am well aware of the Citizens United decision, and agree with it because the constitutional reasoning(First Amendment) was correct in that case.I along with others, spent several classes last year arguing with idiot liberals in my class about this.Bottom line, this was about the First Amendment and they could not offer any legitimate response other than "oh now those evil corporations can blah blah blah"

Ducimus

10-05-11, 02:21 PM

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/keeweeboy/keeweeboy1002/keeweeboy100200183/6469261-man-eating-popcorn.jpg
Nevermind me, im just enjoying the show here.

soopaman2

10-05-11, 02:38 PM

The Tea Party is way different than this "social movement" of dirty, naive, and foolish kids(mostly) playing the working class hero BS.The Tea Party is a legitimate social movement advocating a return to the founding principles of the US Constitution.This movement is inherently left wing, now the unions and dumb celebs like Susan Sarandon etc are trying to get in on it, garbage.Oh yea, George Soros is involved as well.Yes plenty of dirty hippies like the Vietnam protesters, which were a particularly repugnant group of people.

Oh buddy, the media does not skew my views, I just do not care of the trash gathering and people trying top paint it as a legitimate social movement when it's a bunch of losers with nothing to do for the most part.I said nothing about we should firehose them, kill them etc, that would not right unless they began attacking or really causing trouble.Notice I said that I "kind of" would not the police doing some sweeping but my principles would prevent me from being for that.

Well I will be fine and my grandchildren will be fine if they do the right thing, it is called personal responsibility.The real enemy is the government trying to take from certain people to provide for people like the wall street protesters.Instead of being bitter, they could get their crap together and move up but they would rather blame those "evil bankers" etc and condemn a system that really has worked for majority of people because they are ignorant or just too stupid to understand how things work.

I am well aware of the Citizens United decision, and agree with it because the constitutional reasoning(First Amendment) was correct in that case.I along with others, spent several classes last year arguing with idiot liberals in my class about this.Bottom line, this was about the First Amendment and they could not offer any legitimate response other than "oh now those evil corporations can blah blah blah"

So corporations using the billions they are sitting on (from outsourcing jobs to China and India for slave wages) to "buy" elections openly? You ever wonder why lobbying is illegal in most European countries? They call it what it is...Bribery...

You know why Obamacare is bad? Because single payer was killed by insurance company lobbyists to get a mandate for a whole bunch of new mandatory customers on the taxpayer (me and you, I bust my butt for a living) dime.

Do you think it is fair that massive banks should privatize the profits but socialize the losses, your a bigger communist than any of them filthy reject,scumbucket hippies down thier fighting for their future.

So keep on shilling for the people who would bury you just as fast as they would bury those "dumb kids"

ORRRRRRRR, we may have to agree to disagree:salute:

soopaman2

10-05-11, 02:44 PM

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/keeweeboy/keeweeboy1002/keeweeboy100200183/6469261-man-eating-popcorn.jpg
Nevermind me, im just enjoying the show here.

Instigator!:down::O:

It's a debate amongst fellow Kaleuns and countrymen , we still love each other at the end of the day:D

Right???

Tribesman

10-05-11, 02:58 PM

Oh buddy, the media does not skew my views
oh bubbles, you parrot the mainstream media opinions on a regular basis, its almost like you got plugged into newscorp at birth with a later infusion of Rush and a Beck irrigation process.
BTW how did you find time to tell all the students they were wrong, I thought you was spending your time in education telling all the teachers they are wrong:rotfl2:

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 03:44 PM

AVGWarhawk

10-05-11, 03:48 PM

"The OWS movement is way different than this "Tea Party" of white, naive, and foolish old people(mostly) playing the working class Joe the Plumber hero BS.

Was the tea party around when Joe the Plumber crap was going on?

OWS is a legitimate social movement advocating a return to the founding principles of the US Constitution.

What makes it legitimate?

This movement is inherently right wing, now Fox News and dumb celebs like Glenn Beck etc are trying to get in on it, garbage.Oh yea, the Koch Brothers are involved as well."

I have not seen this yet. :hmmm:

Ducimus

10-05-11, 03:49 PM

Instigator!:down::O:

I have learned that when details of personal political opinions are posted.. and those details i KNOW are going to come back with a scathing rebuttle of one form or another... it is best to not involve oneself, but instead, sit back and enjoy the show that is sure to come. :O:

It's a debate amongst fellow Kaleuns and countrymen , we still love each other at the end of the day:D

Right???

Two things i learned you don't discuss with friends. Politics and Religion.

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 03:49 PM

Was the tea party around when Joe the Plumber crap was going on?

What makes it legitimate?

I have not seen this yet. :hmmm:

Dude, you missed what I did. Read Bubbles' quote, and then see what I did there. :03:

AVGWarhawk

10-05-11, 03:51 PM

Dude, you missed what I did. Read Bubbles' quote, and then see what I did there. :03:

Sorry sir! :haha:

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 03:59 PM

The Tea Party is way different than this "

Correct on so many levels. The Tea Party want a reduction of taxes, less regulation, and less government waste. They demand nothing from anybody except less intrusive government. These Wall Street protest losers OTH don't seem to know what they want other than government to seize money and assets from the private sector to give to them. They want "free" education provided by other people, "free" healthcare" provided by others, and apparently the "right" to seize assets from private individuals based on income. They are there to take. These protestors are scum.

I've seen many of these OWS greedy little losers show up in their "corporate" made SUV's, using their "corporate" made IPODS and MP3 players to listen to music, using their "corporate" phones to talk to their useless friends, taking pictures of their idiotic event with their "corporate" made handhelds, and are eating at "corporate" fast food chains daily. What a bunch of tools.

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 04:13 PM

Correct on so many levels. The Tea Party want a reduction of taxes, less regulation, and less government waste. They demand nothing from anybody except less intrusive government. These Wall Street protest losers OTH don't seem to know what they want other than government to seize money and assets from the private sector to give to them. They want "free" education provided by other people, "free" healthcare" provided by others, and apparently the "right" to seize assets from private individuals based on income. They are there to take. These protestors are scum.

I've seen many of these OWS greedy little losers show up in their "corporate" made SUV's, using their "corporate" made IPODS and MP3 players to listen to music, using their "corporate" phones to talk to their useless friends, taking pictures of their idiotic event with their "corporate" made handhelds, and are eating at "corporate" fast food chains daily. What a bunch of tools.

An oversimplified partisan rant full of name calling....hmmm. You're pretty full of hate. Maybe it might be easier to take a step back from the keyboard and let it go.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:14 PM

An oversimplified partisan rant full of name calling. A+++++ would read again. :roll:

You really can't dispute any of it however. You know what both groups have as their goals. Not hate at all. Just sick of people wanting something for nothing, and wondering why things are the way they are.

Ducimus

10-05-11, 04:16 PM

An oversimplified partisan rant full of name calling....hmmm. You're pretty full of hate. Maybe it might be easier to take a step back from the keyboard and let it go.

All his posts are that way. I've had him squelched for the longest time now. If your looking for a fair and open minded discussion, you won't find it there. :O:

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 04:18 PM

You really can't dispute any of it however. You know what both groups have as their goals.

Oh I think you can dispute a lot of it. There's a lot of people out there who are angry, but they're not quite sure of what to be angry at, or exactly what they want done about it. That's something both groups have in common. To say that "everyone in this group is for the war in Iraq" or "everyone in this group wants free healthcare and education always and forever" is making a mistake.

There's a lot of dumb kids in this movement, sure, but what I think it's tapped into is that feeling of powerlessness and the sense of being wronged when they see a country that's ostensibly by the people and for the people being co-opped by corporations to further their interests at the expense of the people. That, I think is the overarching issue, and a very valid one. The rest is details. It's a nascent movement that's just finding itself, and it's people exercising their rights to petition government. They're free to do so and I hardly think that qualifies them as scum.

All his posts are that way. I've had him squelched for the longest time now. If your looking for a fair and open minded discussion, you won't find it there. :O:

Oh I know. I edited my post to include a bit of forum advice - if you find yourself getting that worked up over something on the internet, it's best to just walk away.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:18 PM

All his posts are that way. I've had him squelched for the longest time now. If your looking for a fair and open minded discussion, you won't find it there. :O:

Right back at ya.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:22 PM

There's a lot of dumb kids in this movement, sure, but what I think it's tapped into is that feeling of powerlessness and the sense of being wronged when they see a country that's ostensibly for the people being used by corporations to further their interests at the expense of the people. That, I think is the overarching issue. The rest is details.

That's great and all, however they seem to have no trouble with misplaced, overreaching, and corrupt government. Until they address that, I can't take any of them seriously. And just what is the stated end goal of these people?

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 04:24 PM

And just what is the stated end goal of these people?

I think that's what they're trying to figure out. They're mad, and they want something to change, but they don't know what. That's just my impression and all as I have no connection to any of it aside from thinking that regulatory capture and the influence of lobbyists and big business on government has gone too far.

Takeda Shingen

10-05-11, 04:28 PM

The short version, for all of you keeping score at home:

The world according to the political right--Wall Street good, government bad.

The world according to the political left--government good, Wall Street bad.

Betonov

10-05-11, 04:31 PM

The world according to me- goverment bad, wall street worse :D

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:32 PM

I think that's what they're trying to figure out. They're mad, and they want something to change, but they don't know what. That's just my impression and all as I have no connection to any of it aside from thinking that regulatory capture and the influence of lobbyists and big business on government has gone too far.

Yes, but what change do they seek? What are they there for? The change they wanted last Presidential election wasn't exactly good for business or jobs prospects. I hate to say it, but it's foolish to protest with no idea as to why you're doing it or what the outcome may be.

Madox58

10-05-11, 04:34 PM

Being as the Speculators 'bet' on prices going up?
Kill the Wall Street peeps.
Being as the people in Office 'owe' them?
Kill them also.

Not that that would change a damned thing.

Ducimus

10-05-11, 04:40 PM

Being as the Speculators 'bet' on prices going up?
Kill the Wall Street peeps.
Being as the people in Office 'owe' them?
Kill them also.

Not that that would change a damned thing.

Personally, id love to lynch the heard honcho's at the banks who got government help. A long drop with a short stop would do nicely for those SOB's.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:46 PM

The world according to me- goverment bad, wall street worse :D

Not quite. You can choose not to buy a corporate product or give money to corporate business interest. Much harder and deadlier to disassociate with a government bent on control of it's citizens.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 04:46 PM

Personally, id love to lynch the heard honcho's at the banks who got government help. A long drop with a short stop would do nicely for those SOB's.

Ain't ever gonna happen.

soopaman2

10-05-11, 04:58 PM

Ain't ever gonna happen.

Alot of people on the streets would just be happy with a perp walk.

Just like you said, won't happen. At least the right and left can agree on something.

Sea Demon

10-05-11, 05:11 PM

Alot of people on the streets would just be happy with a perp walk.

Just like you said, won't happen. At least the right and left can agree on something.

Well, yes. I may be pointing that out. But I do think some of these Wall Street suits do need the perp walk as well. Wall Street does have it's fair share of crooks indeed. So does government..and that's much more dangerous. I just think the protests are a waste of time, their focus is largely misdirected and hypocritical, and their goals are questionable.

Penguin

10-05-11, 05:21 PM

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

Samuel Adams (trust a man who makes good beer :03:)

soopaman2

10-05-11, 05:37 PM

Well, yes. I may be pointing that out. But I do think some of these Wall Street suits do need the perp walk as well. Wall Street does have it's fair share of crooks indeed. So does government..and that's much more dangerous. I just think the protests are a waste of time, their focus is largely misdirected and hypocritical, and their goals are questionable.

I remember (I think Jon Stewart) sent a "reporter" around to some of the early tea party rallies and asked what they were protesting for. They gave the same scatterbrained, uncoordinated responses these OWS are giving.

It all starts with an idea, an injustice.

I'm sure when the founding fathers started the revolt from England, they didn't know everything, but they had an idea, an idea that many were willing to fight and die for, and they let destiny see it through.

Do you think they envisioned us sweeping to the Pacific when they decided britain was not good? Not at all, but they had an idea, a hunch it would work, and the testicular fortitude to put the wheels in motion.

This is not right or left as the media spins it. It is all of us. Right and left thinking is what is turning this nation to the largest favela in the western hemisphere. As we fight amongst each other the crooks steal what they could. Then lobby government to get the rest.

August

10-05-11, 05:41 PM

Samuel Adams (trust a man who makes good beer :03:)Actually his family were Maltsters, not Brewers.

yubba

10-05-11, 08:04 PM

If this mob gets everything they are demanding, we would be just like North Korea. You need to pay attention who's in there backing this crap, so what are big unions doing there ?????

CaptainHaplo

10-05-11, 09:07 PM

The arrests with the "ows" group is not that they are protesting. Its that they are infringing on the rights of others in some of their actions. Just as their main focus is predicated on removing rights for the rest of the citizenry.

They represent the 99%? Bullhockey.

On October 05, 2011, at 3:00 in the afternoon the residents of Liberty Square will gather to join their union brothers and sisters in solidarity and march. At 4:30 in the afternoon the 99% will march in solidarity with #occupywallstreet from Foley Square to the Financial District, where their pensions have disappeared to, where their health has disappeared to. Together we will protest this great injustice. We stand in solidarity with the honest workers of:

AFL-CIO (AFSCME)
United NY
Strong Economy for All Coalition
Working Families Party
TWU Local 100
SEIU 1199
CWA 1109
RWDSU
Communications Workers of America
CWA Local 1180
United Auto Workers
United Federation of Teachers
Professional Staff Congress - CUNY
National Nurses United
Writers Guild East
And:

VOCAL-NY
Community Voices Heard
Alliance for Quality Education
New York Communities for Change
Coalition for the Homeless
Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy Project (NEDAP)
The Job Party
NYC Coalition for Educational Justice
The Mirabal Sisters Cultural and Community Center
The New Deal for New York Campaign
National People's Action
ALIGN
Human Services Council
Labor-Religion Coalition of New York State
Citizen Action of NY
MoveOn.org
Common Cause NY
New Bottom Line
350.org
Tenants & Neighbors
Democracy for NYC
Resource Generation
Tenants PAC
Teachers Unite

From: http://occupywallst.org/

That list of groups is NOT 99%. Its entirely far leftist driven, and neither the far left nor the far right are where the majority of people are at.

Want to see what the problem is? Its "THEM"...

http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/

The problem is - who exactly is "THEM"? Every capitalist enterprise - every corporation - every business.

So how to "fix" capitalism?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

The dangerous thing is, some ideas make sense, but when you list "demands" - you don't seperate the ones that suck from the ones that don't. Add in the fact you have people (even here on subsim) advocating for violence against others (like executions... ) without a trial. In fact - if you look at their list of grievances - they list "murder" as one of them - without anything to back it up. They want "justice" without the interference of the justice system - which of course they see as corrupt as well.

In other words - only the murderous mob is uncorrupted.

Yea - that really does speak for the 99% eh?

Bull Chips.

mookiemookie

10-05-11, 10:24 PM

That list of groups is NOT 99%. Its entirely far leftist driven, and neither the far left nor the far right are where the majority of people are at.

Wanting to reign in corporate and lobbyist influence is a leftist position? Well call me a leftist. I mean, even more than I already am. :rotfl2:

I think their list is great. Wall Street has tried to hamstring and gut even the mildest of reforms aimed at them after they took down the entire world economy. They have no place at the bargaining table. And this is coming from someone who works in the financial industry.

CaptainHaplo

10-06-11, 12:19 AM

Mookie....

Like I said - some things make sense. I am a big proponent of getting corporate money out of politics.

That wasn't my point and you know it. You want to take one position that they are right on? Sure, go ahead. They are right on a few things.

Its SOME of the solutions that are wrong - and some of the grievances that are too.

My point was that this OWS group claims - on their own site - to speak for the 99% of people in the world who are not rich, powerful owners or executives of corporations. Then you look at the list of who is a part of this process - and its clearly one sided politically.

With all the comparisons to the tea party - not one single interview with a "tea partier" was there ever the comment that blacks should be hung, or illegal immigrants shot, or corporations have free reign. Yet the tea party as a whole was "extremist", with extremism being defined as anything that would create a smaller, less intrusive government.

Yet they interview OWS folks, and its easy to find them talking about how they do not want to reform the system - but destroy capitalism entirely. Somehow, that isn't extremist. That isn't on the fringe.

The tea party was made up of a very broad spectrum of political ideologies. There were quite a few liberals who were and are tea partiers. Republicans in the OWS? Good look finding more than 1 or 2....

Oh, and lets not forget - its non-violent right?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/05/1023221/-UPDATE-VIDEO-VIOLENCE-at-OccupyWallStreet?via=recent

If you actually READ down, a bunch of masked folks in the front trying to break down barricades - then the cops move in. But its the 99% that are being "peaceful".

Like I said - only the murderous mob can be right, huh?

gimpy117

10-06-11, 08:10 AM

With all the comparisons to the tea party - not one single interview with a "tea partier" was there ever the comment that blacks should be hung, or illegal immigrants shot, or corporations have free reign. Yet the tea party as a whole was "extremist", with extremism being defined as anything that would create a smaller, less intrusive government.

But other things were dug up NOT in interviews. That racist letter from the high ups? Palin drawing "crosshairs" on politicians in her way? The rumblings of "we get our way or armed revolution!"? Shouts of Kill obama?There were some serious undertones (at least in my opinion) that, when taken as a part were harmless, but added together it was a bit scary. (oh and I'm mostly paraphrasing there)

besides, these people in the park ARE being called extremist by opponents, heck they are being called "far left" (which is usually a kind way of saying radical) just a few posts up.

mookiemookie

10-06-11, 08:23 AM

As I said a page or two back, this movement would do well to ostracize the idiots dressing up like zombies or the ones getting violent. In not doing so, they're only giving shills like Fox News ammunition to dismiss the movement and paint everyone as one of those morons. They need to remove that element in order to be taken seriously, or else they get bogged down with that stupidity.

Exact same thing with the Tea Party - by not publicly denouncing folks with the "We came unarmed - this time!" signs and the the racial overtones, they tacitly approved of it.

Penguin

10-06-11, 08:33 AM

:roll:
here we go, somehow this was expectable. One group of protestors is legitimate, while the other are either stinking hippies or retarded racists...
And don't forget to pick out the loudest and wierdest of them, with the most bs demands to point out: "See, that's how they roll!"

I find it a good thing when people organize themselves politically and do not swallow everything they get served by the government.
The problem I have with the tea party is the infamous astroturfing, sponsored by people who want to keep their priviliges, however this does not mean that there people with their own agendas and honest issues and concerns.
Now the Wall Street protestors. It's easy to laugh at hipsters who protest the raised prices of lattes, or 25 yr old fimmakers who cry that they have no money; easy pickings.
I find it also disgusting to see the lunatics from Code Pink trying to be spokesmen (hehe) of the protest, as seen on Al Jazeera last Sunday; a group I have only little more sympathies for than for the KKK.

However the protestors are much more diverse. I find it funny when people bitch about the bailouts, but put down people who protest the very real financial system that led to idiotic things like this.

Wanting to reign in corporate and lobbyist influence is a leftist position? Well call me a leftist. I mean, even more than I already am. :rotfl2:

Oh, you are in good company, together with Commies like George Soros. :03:

Gerald

10-06-11, 01:00 PM

Updated 12:47 p.m. | The total number of people arrested on Wednesday at the Occupy Wall Street protest was 23, the police said Thursday morning.Most of those arrested were charged with disorderly conduct, said Paul J. Browne, the head police spokesman.They included five people who rushed a police line at Broadway and Wall Street just before 8 p.m., Mr. Browne said.One of the five was charged with riot.Four others were arrested at State and Bridge Streets at 9:30 p.m., including one charged with assault after he knocked a police officer off his scooter, Mr. Browne said.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4436/06arrestcityroomblog480.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/06arrestcityroomblog480.jpg/)
The police arresting a protester in the financial district Wednesday night.

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said on Thursday that the Police Department “conducted themselves the way they should.”

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/23-arrested-wednesday-in-wall-st-protest/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record, October 6, 2011, 10:22 am

yubba

10-06-11, 07:25 PM

mookiemookie

10-06-11, 08:02 PM

I guess these folks are democrats, campaigning for Obama, I guess they took off their bedroom slippers and put on thier marching boots that's fine just as long they aren't stepping on anyones neck. Get a haircut and get a real job, that's if the government will let you.

Go ahead and say that to these gentlemen's faces. Go ahead, that is if you have the guts to. We'll wait.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsmhwkZKt11r2rpiuo1_500.jpg

yubba

10-06-11, 09:17 PM

soopaman2

10-06-11, 09:53 PM

I heard they were bus-ing folks in to protest, so they hijacked some vets, I bet those old guys, don't know they are hanging out with a bunch of commies, if they did know, they would be kicking some commie butt and telling them too get a haircut and get a real job. Liberals will do anything for a photo opt. So tell me what this protest is all about again, was it to perserve the constitution, stop wasteful government spending, stop the growth of government, illegal immagration, illegal government sale of weapons to mexican druglords. Government regulations impede-ing job growth, epa to shut down coal fire electical plants. I'm waiting

I dunno about that..

But I know for a fact the billionaire Koch brothers sent busses to over populate the Tea-farts rallies.

Your part of the poison, putting a liberal/conservative spin on this.

Feeding into faux news.

You know what they want? To not have to pay for the mistakes of the moneyed. To get lobbying (bribery) out of government. An equal voice in policy decisions.

Remember Dick Cheneys closed door secret energy summit with big oil execs? No one knows what was said but policy was shaped behind the Americans peoples backs.

You can hate them because they are kids or because Fox told you they were filthy Obama voters, you can be apathetic because you have yours already, but one day the theives hands will be in your pocket and no one will be left to fight for you.

Because of the passive lazy apathy that has gripped the people of our country.

The first Colony of Britains to win against them in open revolt, now look at us. Being ruined by partisan derpa derps.

Both houses are out to kill us, but as long as your attacking those long haired pinko commies, and them attacking you for wanting to cut rich people taxes to zero because they "create jobs".. The real culprits will never be looked at.

Conserva-tard /Demon-crat

I am American, how about you?

Tribesman

10-07-11, 03:09 AM

I am American, how about you?
He's a yubba:rotfl2:

Gerald

10-07-11, 08:34 AM

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/10/01/nyregion/100000001084915/wall-street-protesters-speak.html?ref=nyregion

yubba

10-07-11, 08:46 AM

I dunno about that..

But I know for a fact the billionaire Koch brothers sent busses to over populate the Tea-farts rallies.

Your part of the poison, putting a liberal/conservative spin on this.

Feeding into faux news.

You know what they want? To not have to pay for the mistakes of the moneyed. To get lobbying (bribery) out of government. An equal voice in policy decisions.

Remember Dick Cheneys closed door secret energy summit with big oil execs? No one knows what was said but policy was shaped behind the Americans peoples backs.

You can hate them because they are kids or because Fox told you they were filthy Obama voters, you can be apathetic because you have yours already, but one day the theives hands will be in your pocket and no one will be left to fight for you.

Because of the passive lazy apathy that has gripped the people of our country.

The first Colony of Britains to win against them in open revolt, now look at us. Being ruined by partisan derpa derps.

Both houses are out to kill us, but as long as your attacking those long haired pinko commies, and them attacking you for wanting to cut rich people taxes to zero because they "create jobs".. The real culprits will never be looked at.

Conserva-tard /Demon-crat

I am American, how about you? I'm a poor out of work American just trying to eek out a living with one foot in the woods, all our economic whaooos are the results of our government, our government is the real culprit.
I'm also a converted liberal, I have seen the error of my thinking not knowing what conservatism was really all about but I have been Hannitised and Beck ain't to far off, Mark Levin is spot on. If communism is a race, then I'm sorry I'm a racist. Yes the real culprits will never be looked at, you can see that right now in the network media they don't report on how corrupt this administration really is, why don't they look at this job bill , and see what really is inside this, just like Obama care, nothing but a great big tax bill, where did all that money go from the first stimulus????????????

mookiemookie

10-07-11, 09:05 AM

where did all that money go from the first stimulus????????????

The road I drive on to work every day was resurfaced with money from the ARRA.

Sea Demon

10-07-11, 09:58 AM

The road I drive on to work every day was resurfaced with money from the ARRA.

That's the point. We shouldn't need "stimulus" for road paving. Geez. The government should quit misappropriating taxes and fees meant for this purpose in the first place.

soopaman2

10-07-11, 12:14 PM

I'm a poor out of work American just trying to eek out a living with one foot in the woods, all our economic whaooos are the results of our government, our government is the real culprit.

That yubba!:salute:

The OWS guys are being portrayed bad by the media. Same as the TP was upon their inception by the liberal counterparts.

How did our government get so rotten? Because of PAC's (political action commitees) and lobbying (European countries call this bribery, and it's not allowed)

Obama wanted a single payer system for his Obama care. The insurance companies cried foul, a compromise was enacted. No a federal mandate saying EVERYONE HAS TO BUY IT FROM US.

These politicians know where their bread is buttered, so they bend over and go for it... And still they raise premiums, 9% just recently. In a few years they will have 300 million mandantory customers, so let's raise our rates now.. Government vouchers is free money to them, but not to a taxpayer.

Sea Demon

10-07-11, 12:21 PM

That yubba!

Obama wanted a single payer system for his Obama care. The insurance companies cried foul, a compromise was enacted. No a federal mandate saying EVERYONE HAS TO BUY IT FROM US.

In other words....government got involved in private sector operations and mucked things up in the process. See how it works??? Stop voting for it!

flatsixes

10-07-11, 12:23 PM

That yubba!:salute:

The OWS guys are being portrayed bad by the media. Same as the TP was upon their inception by the liberal counterparts.

How did our government get so rotten? Because of PAC's (political action commitees) and lobbying (European countries call this bribery, and it's not allowed)

Obama wanted a single payer system for his Obama care. The insurance companies cried foul, a compromise was enacted. No a federal mandate saying EVERYONE HAS TO BUY IT FROM US.

These politicians know where their bread is buttered, so they bend over and go for it... And still they raise premiums, 9% just recently. In a few years they will have 300 million mandantory customers, so let's raise our rates now.. Government vouchers is free money to them, but not to a taxpayer.

God forbid there should be an honest and genuine disagreement over how to fix healthcare.

Tchocky

10-07-11, 12:25 PM

In other words....government got involved in private sector operations and mucked things up in the process. See how it works??? Stop voting for it!

Because there was no government involved with the healthcare system beforehand.

EDIT - To be slightly less flippant - The system in existence before was neither a model example of public-private-partnership, nor an endorsement of free-market healthcare. To pretend that involving government in the regulation and structure of US healthcare delivery was an invention of the 111th Congress is absurd.

Armistead

10-07-11, 12:35 PM

Our healthcare system isn't about health anymore, since the massive corporate takeover of it, it's about mass profits. Now people are numbers with ratings. Medical care is fast coming unavailable to millions and millions get lil care.

Our nation agrees the government should run the army to protect americans, but not health. However, I do see the problem, our government is ran by pacs, corps, etc...so in the end corps own government anyway.

When health became connected to the stock market, it's been down hill from there.

Sea Demon

10-07-11, 12:35 PM

Because there was no government involved with the healthcare system beforehand.

There was supposed to be government oversight. At least that's the role government should take. They failed that as well. The system was not perfect before. But it's undeniable that the government made it much worse with this ridiculous health bill passed in the lame duck session during the Christmas holiday....under the radar. Premiums are skyrocketing right now. Nobody in their right mind should want to put this government in charge of their healthcare. They've proven they can't manage anything of consequence short of military operations.

mookiemookie

10-07-11, 12:41 PM

In other words....government got involved in private sector operations and mucked things up in the process. See how it works??? Stop voting for it!

When government looked the other way and removed/didn't enforce regulations, the financial industry blew itself up and took the world economy down with it. I saw how that worked as well.

Sea Demon

10-07-11, 12:58 PM

When government looked the other way and removed/didn't enforce regulations, the financial industry blew itself up and took the world economy down with it. I saw how that worked as well.

Well, you're kind of confused here. I wasn't lamenting government oversight, and the enforcement of laws by government. And yes, they did fail in their job of oversight as well. But when government tries to manage, overreach, require unneeded and costly mandates, be a player, and referee the game such as the healthcare bill.....well that's the problem. And too many Democrat voters want that type of interaction. It simply doesn't work. And they stand there and vote for more of it. Oversight is fine....taking over as a player and managing the industry is not. Government needs to provide oversight but let the private sector manage it's businesses and institute trade, finance, monetary, and tax policies that help them succeed, and not hinder their progress.

The financial downfall was not primarily caused due to lack of regulation. It has alot to do with government spending (fiscal insanity), burdensome taxes and costly REGULATION, and currency speculation and manipulation. In addition, governments role in the housing market crash cannot be explained solely through regulatory policy either. Fannie and Freddie for example were grossly mismanaged.

Bubblehead1980

10-07-11, 01:32 PM

In other words....government got involved in private sector operations and mucked things up in the process. See how it works??? Stop voting for it!

Not to mention how blatantly unconstitutional a federal mandate its.:damn:

mookiemookie

10-07-11, 01:43 PM

The financial downfall was not primarily caused due to lack of regulation. It has alot to do with government spending (fiscal insanity), burdensome taxes and costly REGULATION, and currency speculation and manipulation. In addition, governments role in the housing market crash cannot be explained solely through regulatory policy either. Fannie and Freddie for example were grossly mismanaged.

Fannie and Freddie were not even a proximate cause of the crisis. Rather than retype it all, I've already gone over it in depth here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1757126#post1757126 But that's getting way off track.

I agree to a point with you in regards to the health care bill. A quasi-public/private system doesn't work. If they're going to turn it over to private companies, they should remove some of the sweetheart deals that the insurance industry has wrangled for themselves in order to gouge the public, such as their exemption from anti-trust laws under the McCarran-Ferguson Act. I'd advocate a fully public solution as it's been shown around the world to provide the most effective outcomes at the lowest total cost, ideological or philosophical issues with it notwithstanding.

And what's the common theme here? The influence of lobbyists and corporations on the government has turned out a system that sucks for us, but is great for them. Investment banks lobby the government to remove leverage restrictions from them, and when they get it, they blow themselves up and hand the taxpayer the bill. The insurance lobby blatantly engages in monopolistic practices that end up costing the public tons of money, but then screams about how a single payer health plan would destroy the "free market." They turn it to their advantage by writing the health care bill and handing themselves millions of new customers.

Bubblehead1980

10-07-11, 01:49 PM

"The OWS movement is way different than this "Tea Party" of white, naive, and foolish old people(mostly) playing the working class Joe the Plumber hero BS. OWS is a legitimate social movement advocating a return to the founding principles of the US Constitution.This movement is inherently right wing, now Fox News and dumb celebs like Glenn Beck etc are trying to get in on it, garbage.Oh yea, the Koch Brothers are involved as well."

Oh I'm having too much fun with this. :rotfl2::har:

You are easily amused because that was weak.

white, naive, foolish? hmm well plenty of non whites in the tea party(not that it matters, not a requirement to have "diversity") there are plenty of young, middle aged, and old.Joe the Plumber was John McCain(RINO) BS and if you notice you dont hear much from that fool these days.

OWS is a left wing movement and no left wing movement advocates a return to the founding principles.The left hates the constitution because it often stands in the way of their dangerous ideology.The only time the like it is in first amendment issues IF it suits them.The right as a whole is not like this but there are some on the right who are as guilty but comparing the two, well the left is not exactly about the US constitution.Maybe the old soviet constitution:arrgh!: but the US? No.

I won't even address the Beck thing, I dislike him anyway.

The Koch brothers are the evil white boogeyman cooked up by Maddow and MSNBC.The Kochs are successful businessmen who are politically active, nothing more.State Media aka MSNBC wanted to scare people esp minorities so they found two wealthy, white guys and framed them as some type of hidden force that is against them, it really is laugable and disgusting.

Tchocky

10-07-11, 01:54 PM

Point location software status - RECALIBRATION RECOMMENDED

soopaman2

10-07-11, 02:21 PM

You are easily amused because that was weak.

white, naive, foolish? hmm well plenty of non whites in the tea party(not that it matters, not a requirement to have "diversity") there are plenty of young, middle aged, and old.Joe the Plumber was John McCain(RINO) BS and if you notice you dont hear much from that fool these days.

OWS is a left wing movement and no left wing movement advocates a return to the founding principles.The left hates the constitution because it often stands in the way of their dangerous ideology.The only time the like it is in first amendment issues IF it suits them.The right as a whole is not like this but there are some on the right who are as guilty but comparing the two, well the left is not exactly about the US constitution.Maybe the old soviet constitution:arrgh!: but the US? No.

I won't even address the Beck thing, I dislike him anyway.

The Koch brothers are the evil white boogeyman cooked up by Maddow and MSNBC.The Kochs are successful businessmen who are politically active, nothing more.State Media aka MSNBC wanted to scare people esp minorities so they found two wealthy, white guys and framed them as some type of hidden force that is against them, it really is laugable and disgusting.

Yes we can agree, Beck is a scumbucket.
But the tea party still had Koch funded busses running members to rallies..It's well proven, Faux news is full of crap, ask around what the owner (Rupert Murdoch) recently got in trouble for doing in Britain. And ask yourself that with Americas looser libel laws, if you think Old Rupert boy is willing to be even more fairer and noble here...The land of bought interests, he can buy himself out of trouble with lobbies and "campaign donations" just like BP did when they destroyed our gulf fishing industry.

These people (not just kids) are self funded, and relying heavily on donations. Like the many people sending pizzas and other stuff down there.
I'm one of the few lucky who's job isn't being done in India or China yet, and wish the same on others.

Have fun in your bubblegum O'rielly world. A man named Goebbels would have loved you status quo shill types in his time.

mookiemookie

10-07-11, 02:23 PM

The Koch brothers are the evil white boogeyman cooked up by Maddow and MSNBC.The Kochs are successful businessmen who are politically active, nothing more.State Media aka MSNBC wanted to scare people esp minorities so they found two wealthy, white guys and framed them as some type of hidden force that is against them, it really is laugable and disgusting.

"George Soros is the evil boogeyman cooked up by Hannity and Fox News.George Soros is a successful businessman who is politically active, nothing more.State Media aka Fox News wanted to scare people esp the gullible so they found a wealthy, Jewish guy and framed him as some type of hidden force that is against them, it really is laugable and disgusting."

Oh you really are making this too easy :rotfl2::har:

Tchocky

10-07-11, 02:23 PM

This thread could supply an aggressive round of Buzzword Bingo

soopaman2

10-07-11, 02:31 PM

"George Soros is the evil boogeyman cooked up by Hannity and Fox News.George Soros is a successful businessman who is politically active, nothing more.State Media aka Fox News wanted to scare people esp the gullible so they found a wealthy, Jewish guy and framed him as some type of hidden force that is against them, it really is laugable and disgusting."

Oh you really are making this too easy :rotfl2::har:

Mookie, I'm glad I am not the only pinko communist, long haired,potsmoking, dope sniffing hippie, godless , terrorist loving, America hating, person on this board who thinks a nations policy should serve everyone and not the people who "bought into the game"

Then again, we should go back to our drugs and socialism....

(Bank Bailouts=biggest socialism plan in history, Stalin would have pooped his pants)

yubba

10-08-11, 08:32 AM

So the left has George Soros, and the right has the Koch Brothers, sounds to me, that makes it a fair playing field, isn't that what the left is all about, being fair ?? Or are they, disreguarding their core values about being fair, if this is the case we can't beleive what they stand for. The left can't tell you what the plan is, and if they did it would be a lie, like all the legislation they have passed, hidden agenda's, backroom deals, and we got to pass this bill to see what's in it. I see Obama, Biden, and the big labor unions, have indorsed the occupiers hope-ing this is a counter to the Tea Party, in Boston the Tea Party had to get a permitt to march, and the occupiers didn't and the local government has done nothing so who's backing who ??????? The occupiers are what's wrong with the Democrat Party and the Left, they want something for nothing and are willing to take it from you, no matter if they deserve it or not, that's stealing and some call it communism. So calm yourself have a nice pipe-ing hot cup of TEA. Oh almost forgot who's going to pay to clean up this mess after they leave????? Oh and the occupiers would have created more jobs than the government, see they are contributing to capitalism. Remember the more they tax you the more they enslave you. I don't intend to spend more than 10 pecent of my time, nor should anybody else be working for this sorry Government so go get a haircut and get a real job.

Gerald

10-08-11, 09:26 AM

The simmering discontent that has provoked the Occupy Wall Street protests has prompted numerous historical comparisons. Some are calling the movement a liberal version of the Tea Party. Others see a repeat of the 1930s populism that accompanied the New Deal. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg seems to be reminded of the Vietnam War. Twice in the past two weeks, Mr. Bloomberg has cited protests from the Vietnam War era for comparison with current events. Last week, on his weekly radio show, he brought up the antiwar movement while discussing the current protests. “I remember in the Vietnam War there were enormous protests on Wall Street,” the mayor said, adding, “I’ve always thought one of the sad things is, when the Vietnam vets came back, we didn’t treat them the way they deserve to be treated.” On Friday, also on his radio show, he again found an occasion to bring up protests against the war, this time while discussing the 10th anniversary of the start of the war in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/nyregion/for-bloomberg-occupy-wall-street-evokes-vietnam-era-protests.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,Published: October 7, 2011

MothBalls

10-08-11, 11:39 AM

It's spreading to other cities....

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2011/10/occupy-dc-lead-2011-thumb-640xauto-4370.jpeg

Wonder how big it's going to get?

They did San Diego as well last night.

Gerald

10-08-11, 11:49 AM

The Wall Street-critical protests spreading like wildfire across the U.S. and worldwide. Currently scheduled events in 973 cities worldwide, according to the unofficial site Occupy together....:hmmm:

soopaman2

10-08-11, 11:50 AM

http://occupywallst.org/

Is the organizational website, in case anyone is interested. This is real, this is the "pitchforks". This is what makes America great to me, do something like this in China, and see what dark cell you and your family are thrown in...

Even if it does nothing in the short run, it proves a point.

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 12:10 PM

http://wordspy.com/graphics/torch-and-pitchfork.jpg

JU_88

10-08-11, 12:30 PM

I have a nasty feeling this is the calm before the storm :oops:

Gerald

10-08-11, 12:39 PM

Not incredible, but it will not, in my opinion to degenerate into a violent sense, unsaid is probably the best at the moment, :hmmm:

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 12:41 PM

I have a nasty feeling this is the calm before the storm :oops:

Are you still working for you know who F?

JU_88

10-08-11, 12:43 PM

Are you still working for you know who F?

The Conservatives? Hell no! :DL

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 12:50 PM

The Conservatives? Hell no! :DL

I forgot...when they're in power nobody works :DL

Gerald

10-08-11, 02:17 PM

Thus saith the king of Newcastle upon Tyne...

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7482/800pxsouthshieldscoastl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/800pxsouthshieldscoastl.jpg/)

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 02:45 PM

Your about ten mile astray...Newcastle is inland :doh:

Gerald

10-08-11, 02:51 PM

But you've said that I am traveling at the speed of light, a photo that will make the tourists come to town, a small appetizer, so to speak :DL

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 02:59 PM

Eh? :doh:

Gerald

10-08-11, 03:30 PM

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7307/newcastlebeach.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/newcastlebeach.jpg/)

:timeout:

JU_88

10-08-11, 03:30 PM

I forgot...when they're in power nobody works :DL

Touche :)

Jimbuna

10-08-11, 03:52 PM

Touche :)

LOL :03:

Gerald

10-08-11, 05:06 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/opinion/collins-wall-street-weeks.html

Rockstar

10-08-11, 07:13 PM

krashkart

10-08-11, 09:02 PM

Thousands of Occupy Wall Street supporters gathered in Washington Square Park on Saturday afternoon for a General Assembly intended to spread the movement's message. After several introductory speakers, the crowd lit up when an Egyptian activist named Mohammed Ezzeldin explained what he saw was the connection between Occupy Wall Street and the protests against Hosni Mubarak.

"I am coming from there -- from the Arab Spring. From the Arab Spring to the fall of Wall Street," Ezzeldin said, his voice echoed by the crowd of thousands. "From Liberation Square to Washington Square, to the fall of Wall Street and market domination, and capitalist domination."
Full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/occupy-wall-street-washington-square_n_1001775.html

Sea Demon

10-09-11, 01:48 AM

Saw this on Drudge. It's really beyond weird. A video shot at Occupy Atlanta "mike check" (mike check) this group (this group) makes it's decisions (makes it's decisions) by concsnsus (by consensus) we are (we are) a bunch of (a bunch of) zombies (zombies)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

The leftists in this video are the stupidest people on the planet. No seriously.......stupid as you're ever going to see. The stupidity displayed here seems infinite. This video proves that sheeple do exist. Giving up their individuality and freedom to turn themselves into a mindless drone? Sick. I can't imagine anybody thinking these people are sane or have any shred of intellectualism about them.

This is what stupidity looks like.

EDIT - Agree with him or not, Congressman Lewis deserves more courtesy than that. He is after all an iconic civil rights figure. These pigs know nothing about courtesy or respect.

Tribesman

10-09-11, 02:16 AM

It's really beyond weird.
The leftists in this video are the stupidest people on the planet. No seriously.......stupid as you're ever going to see.
:har::har::har::har::har:
Mike check ....Performance art.
I like the "Union Thug" shirts

JU_88

10-09-11, 03:51 AM

Its fine to say the system is corrupt unfair and crap (which it is) but if You want some kind of revolution, you need to have some ideas on how to fix or replace it. Just turning up on someones lawn in fancy dress with plackard that says " me no likey" isn't very constructive. :woot:
I don't like anarchists, because if they had to live in anarchy for just one day, they would probably piss there middle class pants and cry when some one kicks them in the face and throws their iPhone in the river.

Gerald

10-09-11, 06:59 AM

What began as a small group of protesters expressing their grievances about economic inequities last month from a park in New York City has evolved into an online conversation that is spreading across the country on social media platforms. Inspired by the populist message of the group known as Occupy Wall Street, more than 200 Facebook pages and Twitter accounts have sprung up in dozens of cities during the past week, seeking volunteers for local protests and fostering discussion about the group’s concerns. Some 900 events have been set up on Meetup.com, and blog posts and photographs from all over the country are popping up on the WeArethe99Percent blog on Tumblr from people who see themselves as victims of not just a sagging economy but also economic injustice. “I don’t want to be rich. I don’t want to live a lavish lifestyle,” wrote a woman on Tumblr, describing herself as a college student worried about the burden of student debt. “I’m worried. I’m scared, thinking about the future shakes me. I hope this works. I really hope this works.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/nyregion/wall-street-protest-spurs-online-conversation.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,October 8, 2011

mookiemookie

10-09-11, 07:04 AM

“We have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy. I’m taking this seriously in that I’m old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy. We can’t allow that to happen.” - Long Island Republican Congressman Peter King

Regular people affecting policy and not the deep pocketed corporations? Scandalous! Peter King is scared. And that makes me happy.

Takeda Shingen

10-09-11, 07:29 AM

This thread could supply an aggressive round of Buzzword Bingo

Absolutely.

soopaman2

10-09-11, 07:44 AM

Regular people affecting policy and not the deep pocketed corporations? Scandalous! Peter King is scared. And that makes me happy.

I know god forbid mookie, I appreciate the common sense you exibited on this thread.
I believe it is another example of someone who buys into trickle down economics.. The "I will get mine even if I have to take yours"

I bet that fella is a baby boomer whos retirement is secure, and who knows the SSI we all pay into will be there for him but not the younger generation.They will get theirs, at my expense, so it's easy to make such comments...

The selfish quick gratitude, gimme now attitude of some boomers is why we are in a fiscal mess in this country.... That and the banks you far right radicals love shilling for.

Ah yes, I love the trolls..

mookiemookie

10-09-11, 07:48 AM

Rockstar

10-09-11, 08:40 AM

I think people like Peter King that attempt to frame this as a "left vs right" debate are missing the point entirely, or purposefully and maliciously trying to obfuscate the issue. It's a "people vs. moneyed interests" debate.

Sounds like the same thing the current Wall Streeters were protesting back in the 60's when they were young.

Rockstar

10-09-11, 08:45 AM

Visited another fav Little Green Footballs http://littlegreenfootballs.com/

Someone who goes by Obdicut posted on Sat Oct 8, 2011 at 5:59 pm PDT. Now I know for you arm chair quarterbacks it isn't a 'scientific' poll from your one and only favorite news source (whichever it may be) This is simply an observation from someone who wasn't looking for news to rile up the viewers, or to uncover some secret left wing, right wing conspiracy. Enjoy.

I went down to the site of Occupy Wall Street (after first having been confused at Zucotti park, where I luckily found a few dudes from the protests who sent me in the right direction) to ask some random questions I thought would be illuminating.
Before I get into the data, here's some top of the mark good news:

There were virtually no signs advocating violence. The most that I saw were the 'revolution' signs or the sign that said "If nonviolent protest is crushed, violent protest will take its place".
There were no people in stupid costumes, unless you count dreadlocks or hipsters as costumed.
The sanitation level was not significantly worse than anywhere else in New York. For those seeing the pictures of large piles of garbage by the side of the street: that's normal in NYC.

The top of the mark bad news:

Paulian **** has earwigged its way in there. Not only was a lot of support for the end the fed argument, but people talking about cutting off foreign aid.
The most organized people there were the, socialist (actually Marxist) groups, who had tables, literature, etc. However, though they were tolerated, they were not popular; I didn't see their literature actually being read, consumed, etc.

Okay, now the data.
I polled 90-ish people. Obviously the selection of them was unscientific. I simply approached people who looked like they'd answer. This means I didn't engage with anyone doing anything highly active, nor working, nor, probably anyone who smelled too bad.
I know my numbers don't add up to 90 and in some cases I forget to record the don't know/others. Sorry.
Question 1: Are you registered to vote.

Yes : 64
No: 16
Question 2: Did you vote in the last presidential election?

Yes: 54
No: 28
Question 3: Do you identify with any political party?

19 Democrats, 6 Republicans, 2 independent party, 1 socialist party, 2 Libertarian party.
58 small-i independent.
Question 4: Do you know who Adbusters are?

Yes: 42
No: 42
Question 5: Do you feel corporations should continue to have rights derived from the rights of citizens? Do you think the 14th amendment should apply to corporations?

Yes: 6
No: 64
Don't know: 18
Question 6: Violence towards the police is justified in a protest.

Answers on a scale of 1-7, with 1 being the least agreement, and 7 being the most in agreement.
1. (Definitely do not agree with statement) 52
2. 2
3. 7
4. 5
5. 2
Question 7: The Federal Reserve should be ended.

1. (definitely do not agree) 8
2. 10
3. 8
4. 6
5. 4
7: 29
(None of the people who said 7 could explain what the fed does.)
Don't know: 30
Question 8: The banking industry needs to be more heavily regulated:

1. (definitely do not agree) 12
2. 0
3. 0
4. 8
5. 12
6. 0
7. 58
Question 9: The current political system is irrevocably broken:

1. (definitely do not agree) 3
2. 0
3. 2
4. 8
5. 14
6. 20
7. 30
Question 10: Do you know what progressive taxation is?

Yes: 62
No: 20
Question 11: The money that you're using to be at this protest, where did it come from?

60: Earned it myself.
20: Student, so parent's money.
9: Some bull****.
1: Trust fund!
To explain the large number of people who say they disagree with more banking regulation: They expressed no faith in the regulators.
So, there you have it. My first poll. I plan on going back during the week.
I asked one other question which was to tell me what question I should have asked, what question they'd like to ask everyone else at the protest if they could.
The by far most common answer was some variation on:
What do you hope to achieve? What issue should we focus on?
The other good answers I received to that were:
Are you ready to eat rats?
Where can I find good cheap craft beer in Manhattan?
Do any of these girls put out?
Are you employed?

soopaman2

10-09-11, 09:41 AM

I think people like Peter King that attempt to frame this as a "left vs right" debate are missing the point entirely, or purposefully and maliciously trying to obfuscate the issue. It's a "people vs. moneyed interests" debate.

I hereby award you with a pre football case of beer. :woot:

I keep bringing up words like lobbying, and Political Action Committees (PACS) as well as the the SCOTUS' rediculous Citizens United decision granting corporations personhood (except when being prosecuted for wrecking the environment [BP] and the economy [Goldman sachs, BoA, Lehman Brothers, bear Stearns, Chase, etc])

It's good being someone who can see outside what I'm told by my favorite news source, or political party (which is nothing better than rooting for your favorite hockey team)

Fools distractions, while the rich extract the wealth from the middle class, and starve the poor.

tater

10-09-11, 09:54 AM

krashkart

10-09-11, 10:06 AM

Since the communications director for the occupy wall street people stated in an interview that their goal was "to overthrow the government," couldn't the administration use the same legal justification they used on that guy in Yemen and just bump all of them off with drone strikes?

It is NOT a "people vs monied interests" debate. It is an idiotic protest, frankly. Their "manifesto" has so many bullets in the list they are bound to overlap with most people on some issues, but taken as a whole, it's absurd.

Taken as a whole the movement is wholly disorganized. They've got our attention, but... er, now what? :06:

EDIT: I can't swing with the whole "overthrow the gubmint" thing, either. That's not the way to get the right attention in these matters.

EDIT 2:

[...] as well as the the SCOTUS' rediculous Citizens United decision granting corporations personhood (except when being prosecuted for wrecking the environment [BP] and the economy [Goldman sachs, BoA, Lehman Brothers, bear Stearns, Chase, etc])

Now that corporations are 'people', how can that be turned to the advantage of the citizens? If they are 'people' then the people must push for a decision that would hold coporations fully accountable for their mistakes. There is absolutely nothing that makes them any more special than you or me or anyone else. Right? Nobody is above the law. :hmmm:

</stream of consciousness>

soopaman2

10-09-11, 10:51 AM

Since the communications director for the occupy wall street people stated in an interview that their goal was "to overthrow the government," couldn't the administration use the same legal justification they used on that guy in Yemen and just bump all of them off with drone strikes?

It is NOT a "people vs monied interests" debate. It is an idiotic protest, frankly. Their "manifesto" has so many bullets in the list they are bound to overlap with most people on some issues, but taken as a whole, it's absurd.

Why because it doesn't conform with normal Left vs right thinking?

Because the media tried to ignore it for 2 weeks, but the footage of sitting people being maced pushed it mainstream?

You make statements like you want them clipped. You compare peaceful protestors to a proven violent terrorist? Wow mister junior propaganda minister, thats a stretch.
A missile in NYC is smart, I guess you never been there.:down: You oughta have a missile hit your house just for suggesting it, you unpatriotic terrorist. **sarcasm please**

Obey , bend over, not enough money for lube, enjoy it or die conservatively in a conservative manner:rotfl2:.

How much you getting paid to post against your own interests?

mookiemookie

10-09-11, 11:20 AM

krashkart

10-09-11, 11:34 AM

Peaceful protest isn't the kind of threat that would warrant drone strikes anyway, even in the example illustrated above.

JU_88

10-09-11, 01:28 PM

Fools distractions, while the rich extract the wealth from the middle class, and starve the poor.

^This, only that the middle classes in America have finally had enough!

mookiemookie

10-09-11, 01:33 PM

Peaceful protest isn't the kind of threat that would warrant drone strikes anyway, even in the example illustrated above.

That's the point. I was just illustrating how ludicrous a statement it was.

^This, only that the middle classes in America have finally had enough!

Looks like they've had enough across the pond as well.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/09/8234525-occupy-wall-street-style-protests-spread-to-britain

Jimbuna

10-09-11, 01:47 PM

Looks like they've had enough across the pond as well.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/09/8234525-occupy-wall-street-style-protests-spread-to-britain

Cameron won't mind, mad Boris and him will hit them with a congestion charge :03:

JU_88

10-09-11, 02:06 PM

Cameron won't mind, mad Boris and him will hit them with a congestion charge :03:

Heh, who was it that suggested Boris is just a Blonde wig and suit Costume that anyone can jump into for a day and prentend to be Mayor. :haha:
Oh this is pricless BTW... its so so true :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2fZJR9JC0

Jimbuna

10-09-11, 02:32 PM

Heh, who was it that suggested Boris is just a Blonde wig and suit Costume that anyone can jump into for a day and prentend to be Mayor. :haha:
Oh this is pricless BTW... its so so true :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT2fZJR9JC0

Classic...never seen that one before :DL

krashkart

10-09-11, 02:56 PM

That's the point. I was just illustrating how ludicrous a statement it was.

Oh I understood. Just chirping in. :)

AVGWarhawk

10-10-11, 09:08 AM

Quite honestly, what do these folks sitting at Wall St expect to happen with sitting at Wall St? I really don't see anything being accomplished here. :hmmm:

soopaman2

10-10-11, 09:22 AM

Quite honestly, what do these folks sitting at Wall St expect to happen with sitting at Wall St? I really don't see anything being accomplished here. :hmmm:

Well it certainly has peoples attention, even yours.

I'm trying to figure out if your trolling or honestly curious. In case your curious I will respond. If this is right wing trolling then press control+alt+del and pour water in your computer, all the pinko commie scum will die instantly. (Don't tell no one, I don't want that liberal killing exploit patched, I may need it);)

You don't think some of the issues of this protest will come up during the election? It will force the right wingers to take a stance, and for spineless jellyfish Obama O'Rielly to either embrace it and denounce his Wall Street financiers, or die when all them kids vote Republican.

You may not see much but you look in the short term. I don't, then again, I am alot smarter than some of them, I stayed employed through this depression.

AVGWarhawk

10-10-11, 09:54 AM

I'm trying to figure out if your trolling or honestly curious.

Troll? :har:

I see this protest, no matter right or left, is not going to accomplish anything.

Sailor Steve

10-10-11, 10:00 AM

I'm trying to figure out if your trolling or honestly curious.
You're addressing one of the older, more respected members here. In all my time at Subsim I've never known AVG to troll. Be overexcited and wrong sometimes, sure, but no more so than the rest of us.

soopaman2

10-10-11, 10:04 AM

You're addressing one of the older, more respected members here. In all my time at Subsim I've never known AVG to troll. Be overexcited and wrong sometimes, sure, but no more so than the rest of us.

Then I apologize to AVG for doubting him:salute:. I am rather used to being attacked in the process of defending the protestors. I did give the benefit of the doubt and gave my rational answer. I don't mean to pee on anyones shoes here.

Sailor Steve

10-10-11, 10:06 AM

Then I apologize to AVG for doubting him:salute:. I am rather used to being attacked in the process of defending the protestors. I did give the benefit of the doubt and gave my rational answer. I don't mean to pee on anyones shoes here.
Not at all. There are some who will do that, but most of us deal well with disagreement and heated debates. Not all, to be sure, but we try to keep it clean and above board. :sunny:

[edit] No matter how I word that it still sounds like some kind of warning. It's not. It's just an explanation.

soopaman2

10-10-11, 10:13 AM

Not at all. There are some who will do that, but most of us deal well with disagreement and heated debates. Not all, to be sure, but we try to keep it clean and above board. :sunny:

[edit] No matter how I word that it still sounds like some kind of warning. It's not. It's just an explanation.

I understand, you were just letting me know his character because I was unsure. I didn't take it bad.:DL

I know I been mean at times on this thread, but this protest hits close to home. I know alot of these guys personally and the things that are said by the media, and neutral bystanders is sometimes so false, off base and at times partisan driven i have to respond.

It's not hate, it's passion!:rock::D

AVGWarhawk

10-10-11, 10:18 AM

Jimbuna

10-10-11, 10:24 AM

Chris a Troll?

Never thought he was tall enough :hmmm:

:O:

soopaman2

10-10-11, 10:27 AM

At any rate, what is the ultimate goal of the protesters? There is no organization here. What is the overall message? I would think protesting in front of the White House would be a better place to state their case.

I think they are directing their malice towards the culprits.

I completely agree. Marching on the white house and especially congress/senate would make a larger impact.

With it spreading to other cities it shows that the discontent is widespread, and not just suburban middle class spoiled white kids looking for their version of the Vietnam protest (draft dodging punks, huge difference)

Maybe in time it will catch political fire. If not the citizens will put down the sign and pick up the pitchforks...It is what it is, history has proven you can only pull on the populace so much before it snaps back like a rubber band.

On a side note everytime one of them scream Ron Paul into a camera they delegitamize (sp?) the movement.....:damn:

AVGWarhawk

10-10-11, 10:46 AM

I think they are directing their malice towards the culprits.

The banks, DC, Righty or Lefty? I suspect a few do not have a clue.

I completely agree. Marching on the white house and especially congress/senate would make a larger impact.

Of course it will. Overall, I do not think it will help their perceived cause.

With it spreading to other cities it shows that the discontent is widespread, and not just suburban middle class spoiled white kids looking for their version of the Vietnam protest (draft dodging punks, huge difference)

Again, showing discontent in other cities other than DC is not productive. I don't recall anyone likening these protesters to those during the Vietnam era. They look more like Grateful Dead concert goers.

Maybe in time it will catch political fire. If not the citizens will put down the sign and pick up the pitchforks...It is what it is, history has proven you can only pull on the populace so much before it snaps back like a rubber band.

I think in time the media will stop running coverage. To me, this movement, as it were, has no substance. It is disorganized discontent and sometime's known as a riot.

krashkart

10-10-11, 11:15 AM

32 protestors were arrested in front of the capital building in Des Moines last night. Was to be expected; they were given until 11pm to vacate the park.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111010/NEWS/310100027/Protesters-arrested-at-Occupy-Iowa-event?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111010/NEWS/310100027/Protesters-arrested-at-Occupy-Iowa-event?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFrontpage)

It is disorganized discontent and sometime's known as a riot.

They need a plan, bro! :haha:

AVGWarhawk

10-10-11, 11:20 AM

32 protestors were arrested in front of the capital building in Des Moines last night. Was to be expected; they were given until 11pm to vacate the park.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111010/NEWS/310100027/Protesters-arrested-at-Occupy-Iowa-event?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20111010/NEWS/310100027/Protesters-arrested-at-Occupy-Iowa-event?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFrontpage)

They need a plan, bro! :haha:

Exactly. It really reminds me of the scene in Forrest Gump were Gump is running. He does not know why he is running. He is just running. People ask him what he is running for but he does not have a answer.

krashkart

10-10-11, 11:46 AM

Rockstar

10-10-11, 12:21 PM

Exactly. It really reminds me of the scene in Forrest Gump were Gump is running. He does not know why he is running. He is just running. People ask him what he is running for but he does not have a answer.

The masses followed, only to disband in disappointment after Gump quit and went home.

http://www.retrojunk.com/img/art-images/lemmings1.jpg

soopaman2

10-10-11, 12:33 PM

Rockstar

10-10-11, 12:46 PM

I think they are directing their malice towards the culprits.

I completely agree. Marching on the white house and especially congress/senate would make a larger impact.

With it spreading to other cities it shows that the discontent is widespread, and not just suburban middle class spoiled white kids looking for their version of the Vietnam protest (draft dodging punks, huge difference)

Maybe in time it will catch political fire. If not the citizens will put down the sign and pick up the pitchforks...It is what it is, history has proven you can only pull on the populace so much before it snaps back like a rubber band.

On a side note everytime one of them scream Ron Paul into a camera they delegitamize (sp?) the movement.....:damn:

Since you seem to be all for the protest help me to understand what it's about?

Culprits? By that do you mean the ones who printed the trillions or the ones who received it?

Huge difference? What difference do you see?

Discontent? Explain what discontent they have and with whom?

I mean that's the issue I have with someone inciting others to protest. Is they don't have an answer or use vague reasons like "it's 'us'in agin them'in". The people are there but like the bunch following Gump I get this sense nobody knows why. All I can gather from someone who said he was there is they are organized socialists, Ron Paul supporters, students gathering to make love and not war, people against the FED but don't know what the Fed does and groups of grown adults repeating everything the main speaker says like we did trying annoy our parents when we were five years old.

So if you could clarify for me when that person or group (whomever it maybe) does decide to take the reigns and lead who is it you would like to see do this and why?

soopaman2

10-10-11, 01:03 PM

Since you seem to be all for the protest help me to understand what it's about?

Culprits? By that do you mean the ones who printed the trillions or the ones who received it?

Huge difference? What difference do you see?

Discontent? Explain what discontent they have and with whom?

I mean that's the issue I have with someone inciting others to protest. Is they don't have an answer or use vague reasons like "it's 'us'in agin them'in". The people are there but like the bunch following Gump I get this sense nobody knows why. All I can gather from someone who said he was there is they are organized socialists, Ron Paul supporters, students gathering to make love and not war, people against the FED but don't know what the Fed does and groups of grown adults repeating everything the main speaker says like we did trying annoy our parents when we were five years old.

So if you could clarify for me when that person or group (whomever it maybe) does decide to take the reigns and lead who is it you would like to see do this and why?

I will say that I think I know more what they want they they do. It is a developing movement. There was interviews at early tea party rallies and they were the same scatterbrained bunch (just heavily armed in public rallies) It was put together via twitter and facebook. Not George Soros....

My beef is the privatization of profits, and the socialization of losses.
The fact that Lobbyists can influence policy, cuts the 99% out of the legislation process. The American government is based on the people.

It would have been cheaper to give every American A check for 10k USD, it would have stimulated instant spending, spurring our dead economy instantly...

I know it's expensive, would cost almost a trillion dollars....

It's what they gave to the banks, on top of nearly interest free loans for them to loan (except they didn't, they played the stock market, have to get it over 10k) The Federal reserve is depleting our currency, which as I said above, alot of commodities are traded in USD.

It don't affect you in Britain/France/Russia/even blossoming Germany...Yes it does... Especially if you keep doing what we did and bailing out bad capitalism..

The rules of capitalism are simple. You either suceed or go out of business. Yet we saved them, and they gave nothing back.

Unemployment went up just as the capital the the corporations are sitting on went up. They get rich here, then ship it overseas for a quarter of the wages.

Make the rest feel "happy they have a crap job" and know they can be replaced by someone just as desperate to feed their family....

See it yet? Big business owns our government. Citizens United Decision. I said that before too.

They want to be represented, same reasons we knocked over Britain for, a few hundred years ago.
They want a voice. They want to be equal to moneyed interest.

They don't want whats yours, they just don't want to give what little they have to the few who have more than they can use in 5 lifetimes.

Fair request, or is that "communist" or "retarded"?

They just want to be heard, to be human. Not to be minimized because they don't have a lobby, or a political action commitee(PAC)

So why do you hate these people? (college graduates who can't find jobs, retired folks, war veterans, laborers, secretaries)

Osmium Steele

10-10-11, 01:14 PM

I think they are directing their malice towards the culprits.

I've deliberately stayed away from this thread as I could see it being bad for my blood pressure. :)

So here's my one and only foray.

If you think this begins or ends with the banks, bankers, or other wall street types, you are not digging deeply enough and are engaging in class warfare.

Just keep following the money both up and down the chain. And remember, there are multiple chains. Wall Street was not the only recipient of bail out funds.

You'll see it begins and ends in Washington. Though the goals for those responsible are almost as diverse as those of the OWS crowd today, it all comes down to greed for power, not money.

Despite the altruistic ideals of your friends, those protesting in NYC are simply dancing to the fiddles played by the nation's power brokers.

krashkart

10-10-11, 01:19 PM

Or how about Charlie from "Flowers for Algernon' Cuz he is stupid and does dumb stuff we can laugh at.

It sure is funny. I love it, you haven't been raped hard enough by these American banks who are given a blank check from the fed.

Which inflates the USD and makes oil, food and other "futures" more expensive. As you know they are traded in USD, and when our Fed prints it affects the world....So continue laughing from the outside, but we will need something to do with all this military equipment when we do fall....

I love when people don't know the full impact of the behaviour of the people they shill for.

Go ahead, they are all retards now, forest gump, the guy from "Of Mice and Men" and for good measure Charly from "Flowers for Algernon". Makes your arguments really valid.

It's not even satire, because satire is based on truths.

From a certain perspective the movement lacks focus and leadership. How on Earth can Occupy expect to get a message across to people like Eric Cantor or Herman Cain (both of whom have dismissed the protestors in their own way) without a clear statement of objectives and the ambition to propel change? If they don't get that foundation laid down the movement will ultimately burn out without accomplishing anything: in short, a waste of time and resources. *shrug*

I'm not laughing so much as pulling my hair out on the sidelines. My message to Occupy is "You need a plan, dudes!". They're gonna have to do more than take up space in public parks if they want to drive their message(s) home to the people who can actually do something about the troubles in our country. Maybe they're already working on that, I don't know; but they better move quick before people lose interest. :yep:

My two bits.

soopaman2

10-10-11, 01:32 PM

From a certain perspective the movement lacks focus and leadership. How on Earth can Occupy expect to get a message across to people like Eric Cantor or Herman Cain (both of whom have dismissed the protestors in their own way) without a clear statement of objectives and the ambition to propel change? If they don't get that foundation laid down the movement will ultimately burn out without accomplishing anything: in short, a waste of time and resources. *shrug*

I'm not laughing so much as pulling my hair out on the sidelines. My message to Occupy is "You need a plan, dudes!". They're gonna have to do more than take up space in public parks if they want to drive their message(s) home to the people who can actually do something about the troubles in our country. Maybe they're already working on that, I don't know; but they better move quick before people lose interest. :yep:

My two bits.

Whats strange my friend is I feel the same. It's not my defense crumbling mind you. It is simply as you said pulling my hair out. I feel the reasons I gave above are valid gripes, and lacking in self service.

It frustrates me they haven't gotten this together, it is as if they got the attention they didn't expect. It "grew legs" as they say and never thought of an endgame, I will agree with the detractors there.

I also gave a general analysis of what they are angry about, (above posts) And alot of those reasons have yet to be disputed as right or just.

I won't say they are organized and immaculate and perfectly right. I never did. Some are Ron Paul morons, and the friggin Marxists set up tables there. So yes, haters, your scum is out there.

But I echo krashkart and AVG who both stated this needs to be in DC impacting government. The police will continue to protect the gangster (banksters), because that is what the government tells them to do.

A fundamental shift in government on the other hand...

Sad Cain denounced them, he is one of the few TP guys to ever speak sense and is kinda my guy unless Obama grows a spine.

Gerald

10-10-11, 09:50 PM

At the Occupy Wall Street demonstration in Zuccotti Park, you’ll find all of the essentials of a state-of-the-art protest: drum circles, cheeky and plaintive handwritten signs, and, next to a thrumming generator, a hub of social media activity, including live streaming of the proceedings.But amid the accouterments of modern political action, you will also find, of all things, a broadsheet newspaper, The Occupied Wall Street Journal. It is not some tatty, hand-drawn piece of protest samizdat, but a professionally produced, four-color, four-page document of the demonstration, which began on Sept. 17. “Get your newspaper, get your free Occupied Wall Street Journal!” shouted one barker. Getting something in the hands of your average New Yorker is a pretty tough sell, but The Occupied Wall Street Journal was eagerly received, even by the people who just came to gawk, in part because it answered the question of what all the hubbub was about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/business/media/wall-street-protesters-have-ink-stained-fingers-media-equation.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,October 9, 2011

CaptainHaplo

10-10-11, 11:48 PM

Yea it has all the essentials....

Sex, drugs, and squatters.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/it_nyc_lam_sterdam_bmE4vlV5aDUWhBRv9IbaiK

Probably shouldn't mention the lack of sanitation either. After all, most of the protesters there want to "get back to being in harmony with mother earth".....

Its woodstock without the music.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 12:15 AM

Blood_splat

10-11-11, 12:20 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8o3peQq79Q

Tribesman

10-11-11, 03:13 AM

Probably shouldn't mention....
I notice you don't mention the singing christians.

Its woodstock without the music.
hey the music is gospel

JU_88

10-11-11, 04:00 AM

Well this thread just seems like its decended in to the usual Right vs Left
BS. :down:
Right now that doesn't matter. I think many of you are missing the big picture of what is actually going on in America and indeed the Western world right now - and what is forcast in the near future. This protest is only the tip of the iceberg.
The real Global financial problems we face dont care if we are left or right, they are gonna kick us in nuts regardless! and very soon!

JU_88

10-11-11, 04:51 AM

I walked around Occupy Sacramento over the weekend. I couldn't believe the signs being carried by many in this mass of human waste:

"Down with Capitalism - Up with Social Justice"

"Don't tell me to get a job...give me one"

And other such nonsense. The one thing I learned watching these people was that they have no idea how jobs are created, or why they're even possible. Jobs come from great thinking and inventive people with the incentive to carry forth an idea. They come from free markets and private sector CAPITALISM.

I wish these occupy leftist idiots would actually do their homework and understand where they get their iphones, mp3 players, desktop computers, PC and XBox games, and blackberry's they seem to love to have. I say grow up fools, bathe yourselves from the idiocy that is Marxism and really educate yourselves. Support those who create jobs and then by golly..work hard and get one yourself. Of course many of these people will also have to clean themselves up. Seeing what I saw at this event, nobody looked very employable. I can't say I could trust anybody out there with so much as showing up on time to empty a trash can.

Yes Capitalsim is nice for us, even for the protesters you speak of, (dispite their complaints) they live like kings compared to most people in the world.
Unfortunately capitalism only provides us with a good standard of living, because it denies it to somebody else.
For captialsm to work it requires a rich minority and poor majority on a global scale - that is simply how it operates.
Free enterprise is great too, it means anyone 'have have go' but on the flip side its also wide open to exploitation, and boy has it been exploited.

So yes, captialism has shaped the world around us and everything we know and love! I enjoy it as much as the next person as elsewhere people starve to death!
You know if we divided the world's current food supply up equally amongst everyone on the planet we would each get the equivillant of one bowl of rice a day? Now just think about that and how much we eat.... Oh and you BETTER be grateful

The current system we have is simply not sustainable, there is no way mankind will be able to carry on like this for another 50 years, let alone 100, that is an undisputed fact, the only question is are we brave enough to admit it, act and make sacrafices? Hell NO! we just cowardly deny it and continue down the same path of self destruction as we consume our way though the earths limited recources, leaving a huge trail of pollution waste and garbage in our wake. An yes Im as guilty as everyone here.

Also bear in mind the worlds population has almost doubled since the 1970s and it continues to snowball! We no longer have wars, famines and fatal deases on the same scale that we have had though out history. As the population grows, so does the anger and resentment.

Whatever happens something is gonna have to give pretty soon. And im not ashamed to admit it, I am quite scared.
I have a young son and I dont think he is going to grow up to enjoy the same security and freedom we have had.

Captialism has treated me well and so it is with alot reluctance, that I must acknowlege that it is unstable, unsustainable and rotten to the core :(
As for an alternative... I just dont think we have one. Preaching socialism and Communism is all very well, but try talking to someone who has actually LIVED under it.
I agree that too many Pro-Socialists dont seem to have a full understanding of what they are asking for, history has proven that it is very different in practice from what it is on paper.
But likewise Pro-Capitalists are kidding them selves if they think we can keep this system up for much longer. Just about every aspect of the worlds current climate says we can't.

AVGWarhawk

10-11-11, 05:48 AM

JU_88

10-11-11, 06:18 AM

Whatever the case, this movement simply has no substance IMO. I watched a interview with a protester here in Baltimore. His answers to why he was here protesting convinced me these protests are more disorganized and without a message today than yesterday.

You may or may not be right,
But were you really convinced by one person? or you took one bad example to support what you already believed?
Not saying im pro-protest, It just sounds more like you are convincing yourself from what you just wrote, Im just sayin.....

mookiemookie

10-11-11, 06:22 AM

Support those who create jobs and then by golly..work hard and get one yourself.

Jobs are created by demand, not by tax breaks to the wealthy.

Yea it has all the essentials....

Sex, drugs, and squatters.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/it_nyc_lam_sterdam_bmE4vlV5aDUWhBRv9IbaiK

Probably shouldn't mention the lack of sanitation either. After all, most of the protesters there want to "get back to being in harmony with mother earth".....

Its woodstock without the music.

Ah that bastion of unbiased truth, the New York Post. Quote the Weekly World News next time - they're better journalists than the Post. The fact that those in power feel threatened enough to use the media to smear these people is a positive sign.

I find it funny that the same people around here who got butthurt when anyone referred to the Tea Party as teabaggers or anything but "a movement of red blooded Americans exercising their constitutional rights of free speech" are the same one to call those who want money out of politics trash or scum. If wanting a fair democracy where the voice of the people holds more sway than money makes you trash and scum, then call me trash and scum.

AVGWarhawk

10-11-11, 06:38 AM

You may or may not be right,
But were you really convinced by one person? or you took one bad example to support what you already believed?
Not saying im pro-protest, It just sounds more like you are convincing yourself from what you just wrote, Im just sayin.....

No, this interview only confirmed what I have witnessed since this started. There is no goal. It is not a protest. It's more of a forum with no moderators.

JU_88

10-11-11, 06:42 AM

No, this interview only confirmed what I have witnessed since this started. There is no goal. It is not a protest. It's more of a forum with no moderators.

Fair enough, oh and good metaphore - made me chuckle :DL

August

10-11-11, 07:26 AM

JU_88

10-11-11, 07:41 AM

I swear America seems like this....

LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,

Annnd march off the edge of the cliff because no one was looking ahead!
:nope:

Why has every single political thought got to conform with right or left? WHY?
seems like its blinding everyone away from common sense.

August

10-11-11, 07:56 AM

...march off the edge of the cliff...

People have been expecting us to do that for over 200 years but we're still here.

Dread Knot

10-11-11, 07:57 AM

I swear America is like this....

LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,
LEFT, RIGHT,

Annnd march off the edge of the cliff because no one was looking ahead!
:nope:

Well, we used to have this weird thing called a "political center", but it was polarized out of existence years ago by the various 24-hour media machines that consider politics some sort of bloodsport.

JU_88

10-11-11, 08:01 AM

No offence But a 'dead centre' temporary dictatorship just might do you guys the world of good, give you all a chance to calm the f- down? :D
I think the problem with 'Dead center', is that it wouldnt inspire Americans as it wouldnt be able to demonstrate any real passion or ambition, just objectivity and / or indifference.
Its not macho enough for what American politics has become.
@Dread Knot, you have a media fuelled political bloodsport, because most of your country laps it up like a kitty with a saucer of warm milk.

Im not saying the UK is better or anything, but the line between Right and Left has now become so blurred its barely recognisable. To some extent I think its a good thing, since it forces more people to look carfully at whats on the table in terms of policies (the big picture)- rather than just blindly bowling for the same team as mommy daddy.
On the down side it also creates indifference.... just look at our last election (hung parliment).

mookiemookie

10-11-11, 08:03 AM

Well, we used to have this weird thing called a "political center", but it was polarized out of existence years ago by the various 24-hour media machines that consider politics some sort of bloodsport.

:rotfl2: Well said!

Dread Knot

10-11-11, 08:04 AM

No offence But a 'dead centre' temporary dictatorship just might do you guys the world of good, give you all a chance ot calm the f- down? :D

Temporary dictators....that sounds about as appealing as those temporary taxes that never are. :shifty:

Tribesman

10-11-11, 08:05 AM

People have been expecting us to do that for over 200 years but we're still here.
You have been doing that for the past 200 years and continue to do so, hadn't you noticed.

JU_88

10-11-11, 08:35 AM

Temporary dictators....that sounds about as appealing as those temporary taxes that never are. :shifty:

It also sounds like a joke :up:

Dread Knot

10-11-11, 08:38 AM

It also sounds like a joke :up:

Glad to hear it. I think the prospect of an American 'Cromwell' would be just as terrifying across the pond as here. :salute:

Sailor Steve

10-11-11, 09:05 AM

Why has every single political thought got to conform with right or left? WHY?
seems like its blinding everyone away from common sense.

Well, we used to have this weird thing called a "political center", but it was polarized out of existence years ago by the various 24-hour media machines that consider politics some sort of bloodsport.
Not quite true. One of the stated desires of the founders was to have no parties, as they had seen what that was like in Britain and France. They then immediately began to engage in partisan politics. You can blame the media all you want, but in their time the newspapers were sock-puppets for the politicians themselves. Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson waged war in the papers over several issues right from the start. The media are not solely to blame. People want to be right, and they want 'the other guy' to be wrong.

If you have an opinion on an issue, great. If you "know" you're right about it, you're part of the problem. Blaming someone else is the source of all partisan politics, so blame yourself first.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 10:21 AM

Jobs are created by demand, not by tax breaks to the wealthy.

Well, demand is usually derived by innovation. For example, the demand for cell phones was made possible by the invention of the product. A product from someone's creativity. A creativity that usually needs capital to help it flourish. "Tax breaks to the wealthy" is merely a slogan used to create class division among our citizens. Socialist politicians use it as a tool. The reality is that government does not make effective use of the tax dollars they receive, and too much waste comes from that direction. Because of this, it makes no sense to fork over more money to excess government waste. Government needs to keep taxes low and reasonable, and use the taxes they receive in smarter ways. The money is better kept in the pockets of citizens who can make better use of it.

Unfortunately capitalism only provides us with a good standard of living, because it denies it to somebody else.

That's simply not true. Capitalism requires participation. And not all outcomes are guaranteed. Some people fare better than others under this system. And that's OK as it also allows individuals the ability to fail and get back on the saddle to attempt another try at it. The fact is, capitalism has fed the world, brought tremendous innovations to the fore, and allows freedom of the individual to pursue their ideas. Socialism does not. I'll take this Capitalist imperfect system any day with all it's choices and freedom before I would take the inherent slavery, misery, and staleness of socialism.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 10:28 AM

I find it funny that the same people around here who got butthurt when anyone referred to the Tea Party as teabaggers or anything but "a movement of red blooded Americans exercising their constitutional rights of free speech" are the same one to call those who want money out of politics trash or scum. If wanting a fair democracy where the voice of the people holds more sway than money makes you trash and scum, then call me trash and scum.

The tea party and the "occupiers" are two distinct entities with no real similarities. The OWS crowd have had thousands of arrests, have harassed citizens trying to go to work and do their jobs. They have had confrontations with law enforcement and have destroyed public property. They are a disorganized unruly mob of shiftless protestors that has been reinforced by union and organized labor thugs. There were 700 arrests in New York city alone over the weekend. Their goal is to cause as much disruption as possible and force anarchy.

In contrast, there have been thousands of peaceful and respectful Tea Party rallies across the USA over the past three years. The Tea Party Express alone has hosted over 301 and there has not been one arrest or incident of violence. Usually they say a prayer, recite the pledge of allegiance and sing the national anthem before each rally.

Tea partiers usually have informed opinions and clear articulation of their principles and goals. The socialist mobs sitting around in NYC and other "occupied" zones rely on mind-numbing chants, bongo drums and bullhorns, because there is no substance to their message.

AVGWarhawk

10-11-11, 10:39 AM

You will never convince Mookie that the Tea Bag party is ok. :O:

mookiemookie

10-11-11, 10:45 AM

Tea partiers usually have informed opinions and clear articulation of their principles and goals. [/FONT]

That's good for a laugh. The "keep your government hands off my Medicare" guy was a great example of this. A willful and proud ignorance of history, science and economics are the hallmarks of the Tea Party. Sorry, but I just ain't buying it.

I'm on the side of someone who wants government to serve the people, rather than the donors. No matter how they attempt to smear the messenger, that's a message that's hard to fault.

And you have to ask yourself - why would people go to such lengths to smear someone with that message. Interesting....hmm...

In any case, they're two sides of the same coin. Both angry at a government who they feel is not serving their interests.

JU_88

10-11-11, 10:55 AM

That's simply not true. Capitalism requires participation. And not all outcomes are guaranteed. Some people fare better than others under this system. And that's OK as it also allows individuals the ability to fail and get back on the saddle to attempt another try at it. The fact is, capitalism has fed the world, brought tremendous innovations to the fore, and allows freedom of the individual to pursue their ideas. Socialism does not. I'll take this Capitalist imperfect system any day with all it's choices and freedom before I would take the inherent slavery, misery, and staleness of socialism.

Im afraid it is.
'Some people fare better than others' is an understatment.
I suggest you do some research in to the worlds wealth distribution.

Why do you think we have a third world?, is it because those people are just lazy can cant be bothered to create their own opportunities?
Or is it because they are trapped at the bottom of the pyramid, harvesting our crops and manufacturing our goods for next to nothing so we make a tidy profit?

We have half the world near enslaved. Its is not possible for everyone one of earth to have a high standard of living under Captialsm, the system simply cannot function that way.
Also it requires constant economic growth meaning we are tearing though the world resources like there is no tomorrow (and their wont be if we keep it up)
And you dont need me to tell you how wasteful we are either.

Yes it does have its benifits, the last century has indeed been increadible for innovation but at what cost to the planet and its people?

Lastly I was not suggesting Socialism as a better alternative, read my post carefully, critisizing captialism doesnt automatically make me a socialist. please dont jump to conclusions.

Armistead

10-11-11, 11:02 AM

That's good for a laugh. The "keep your government hands off my Medicare" guy was a great example of this. A willful and proud ignorance of history, science and economics are the hallmarks of the Tea Party. Sorry, but I just ain't buying it.

I'm on the side of someone who wants government to serve the people, rather than the donors. No matter how they attempt to smear the messenger, that's a message that's hard to fault.

And you have to ask yourself - why would people go to such lengths to smear someone with that message. Interesting....hmm...

In any case, they're two sides of the same coin. Both angry at a government who they feel is not serving their interests.

The Tea Party believe corporations work for the better good of americans....that should be a clue of how dumb they're.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 11:32 AM

I'm on the side of someone who wants government to serve the people, rather than the donors. No matter how they attempt to smear the messenger, that's a message that's hard to fault.

In any case, they're two sides of the same coin. Both angry at a government who they feel is not serving their interests.

I've been to both events, and there is a huge difference. Yes, there are morons at Tea Party events, but most people there are articulating ideas relating to freedom, constitutional principles, economics, taxes, and law. And many are very knowledgeable on these topics or are there to learn. It is organized, respectful, clean, and everybody goes home after the event. Change is evident at the ballot box as a result of these activities. In effect, Tea Party rallies have been successful.

The occupy event I saw, nearly everybody needed a shower, many were drunk or high on something, and nobody knew what they were doing there. It was more like a party atmosphere. Nearly everyone there was mindlessly droning on with some stupid chant. Many were there to demand government give them somebody else's property or the fruits of their labor. Most are simply there to demand stuff be given to them. Maybe that's what is meant by "government serving the people rather than the donors (taxpayers)". But at this occupy event I was at, it's just plain old socialism being pushed by a ragtag assembly of losers. Nobody knowledgeable about anything. Stupidity, intoxication, and filth everywhere. No substance to any message at all.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 11:41 AM

I suggest you do some research in to the worlds wealth distribution.

I don't know how it works in your part of the world, but here we earn our wealth. Nobody distributes any wealth to anybody. World's financial assets, and national wealth is a product of what they produce, innovate, and how they utilize their resources. It is not distributed. And although I never said we have a perfect system, it is alot better than the alternative. Freedom is non-negotiable for me. And while you type on the device brought to you by Capitalism, I recommend you consider that.

Sea Demon

10-11-11, 11:47 AM

The Tea Party believe corporations work for the better good of americans....that should be a clue of how dumb they're.

Corporations work to maximize profit and build supply chains to support their products. It's about making a living and improving quality of life. You can choose to participate if you wish. Or you can sit on your rump, whine about the system, loiter around Wall street chanting idiotic slogans, and demand people who do participate in Capitalism give you stuff....ala the occupiers.

mookiemookie

10-11-11, 11:58 AM

Corporations work to maximize profit and build supply chains to support their products. It's about making a living and improving quality of life. Really? How did the esoteric derivatives and instruments...the CDS, the ABS, the CDOs... that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, AIG et. al. came up with improve the quality of anyone's life? They did nothing but throw the world economy into a crisis that is still affecting the lives of millions of people. Teachers, firefighters, secretaries, electricians, painters, construction workers are the ones who paid the price for that fraud, not those who caused it. Those companies get billion dollar bailouts with no real strings attached. They're back to paying million dollar bonuses as if nothing happened, to people making use of tax loopholes that allow them to pay less than someone who makes 1/10th of what they do.

Meanwhile there's people out there out of a job because of the system that Wall Street rigged for itself blew up and we got stuck with their casino tab. And if you believe that every one of those people is a whiner or lazy or trying to get something that doesn't belong to them and they'd have a job is they just applied for one, then that "just world" delusion is as clueless as you paint the protesters to be.

But seriously, answer the question. How did a credit default swap improve people's lives? How did a CDO squared make anyone's life better?

soopaman2

10-11-11, 12:36 PM

Really? How did the esoteric derivatives and instruments...the CDS, the ABS, the CDOs... that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, AIG et. al. came up with improve the quality of anyone's life? They did nothing but throw the world economy into a crisis that is still affecting the lives of millions of people. Teachers, firefighters, secretaries, electricians, painters, construction workers are the ones who paid the price for that fraud, not those who caused it. Those companies get billion dollar bailouts with no real strings attached. They're back to paying million dollar bonuses as if nothing happened, to people making use of tax loopholes that allow them to pay less than someone who makes 1/10th of what they do.

Meanwhile there's people out there out of a job because of the system that Wall Street rigged for itself blew up and we got stuck with their casino tab. And if you believe that every one of those people is a whiner or lazy or trying to get something that doesn't belong to them and they'd have a job is they just applied for one, then that "just world" delusion is as clueless as you paint the protesters to be.

But seriously, answer the question. How did a credit default swap improve people's lives? How did a CDO squared make anyone's life better?

It's not worth expelling your energy over. People only care as much as it effects their own lives.

They only care about their own small sphere of influence, and not the countrys health as a whole. They aren't in debt with student loans and degrees, and only finding openings for Wal Mart and McDonalds.

They aren't working 2 jobs to barely get by, with the constant pressure of being replaced.

I am pretty much done here, I made alot of good points in previous posts that were ignored in favor of making fun of the drum circles, and the elite people here that would "never employ them" .
The media ignored them for 13 days, then found every hippy leftist liberal thing they could find and reported on that. Ignored the police brutality, talked to the stoners rather than the organizers.

I blame the media for fostering an age of ignorance, and repeating soundbite morons who lack independant thought.

Tribesman

10-11-11, 12:42 PM

I don't know how it works in your part of the world.....
You don't know how it works in your part of the world:rotfl2:

JU_88

10-11-11, 12:43 PM

I don't know how it works in your part of the world, but here we earn our wealth. Nobody distributes any wealth to anybody. World's financial assets, and national wealth is a product of what they produce, innovate, and how they utilize their resources. It is not distributed. And although I never said we have a perfect system, it is alot better than the alternative. Freedom is non-negotiable for me. And while you type on the device brought to you by Capitalism, I recommend you consider that.

And I recommend you read my post on the last page properly before you paint me as an ungrafeul socialist or whatever it is you seem to have decided I am.

So, since I own a PC, I must think captialism is fair and acceptable or else Im a hypocryte right? yawn*
I AM a captialist I have been born and raised in captalist country, Ive paid my taxes, been a consumer burrowed money, paid it back and supported our beloved system all the way.
In case you missed it already stated that Capitalism is very nice for me, as it is to you.
We are not the ones getting truley screwed by it, those that are couldn't be here because they dont have food, let alone an internet connection.
Im just thinking of them, the horrible selfish monster that I am.

As for earning our wealth.
Some 'earn it' more than others, Compare the salary of your average Wall street trader/ Banker/ professional sportsman/ TV soap star,
to that of your average Fireman/ Policeman / Doctor / Soldier.... Yeah 'the systems not perfect' :dead:

mookiemookie

10-11-11, 01:10 PM

I am pretty much done here, I made alot of good points in previous posts that were ignored in favor of making fun of the drum circles, and the elite people here that would "never employ them" .
The media ignored them for 13 days, then found every hippy leftist liberal thing they could find and reported on that. Ignored the police brutality, talked to the stoners rather than the organizers.

I blame the media for fostering an age of ignorance, and repeating soundbite morons who lack independant thought.

Great points, and I think you're right. Said all that needs to be said.

JU_88

10-11-11, 01:25 PM

^^ @ Soopaman2
That'll be the good old unbiast mainstream free media with no co-operate intreast in action once again. :yep:
Many in GT only listen to what they want hear.
Its easier to ignore, dismiss and discredit than to risk absorbing something that might (shock horror) actually challenge or even undermine our pre-existing beliefs and values.
The very concept seems to terrify some people half to death.

Torvald Von Mansee

10-12-11, 11:59 AM

If all these Wall Street protesters look like her, I'm on the next plane. :D

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/6/648/64898.jpg

In all probability, she and her bf (OF COURSE she has one) come from the 1% and went to school/are going to school w/other 1%ers at a 1% school, probably someplace like Swarthmore/Bard/Oberlin/Reed/Bowdoin/Bates/etc.

gimpy117

10-12-11, 02:33 PM

In all probability, she and her bf (OF COURSE she has one) come from the 1% and went to school/are going to school w/other 1%ers at a 1% school, probably someplace like Swarthmore/Bard/Oberlin/Reed/Bowdoin/Bates/etc.

so? does that make it not okay to march for the rights of others? Did not many white people also walk alongside MLK?

Torvald Von Mansee

10-12-11, 08:29 PM

so? does that make it not okay to march for the rights of others? Did not many white people also walk alongside MLK?

Do you think they'd like it if mommy and daddy donated ALL their assets to the poor?

JU_88

10-13-11, 03:59 AM

Do you think they'd like it if mommy and daddy donated ALL their assets to the poor?

You know what -you can actually defend others without having to actually become who you are defending.
Likewise you can critisize somthing that you yourself are apart of.

You dont need to be poor to sympathise with poor people,
You can still find faults with capitalism, even if you are a captialist.

The hypocracy lable is cheap and overused.

People who protest are exercising there freedom of speech and right to protest. Some are idiots who do just going long for the ride, but there is no such thing as a MASS protest without a message.
People protest to for a change of policy that is currently not on offer from their government, if enough people are behind it, then any fair democratic society should at the very least take them seriously enough to listen.
Not every protester will be united on opinion, just as every Christian, Liberal, Republican, whatever is not united in theirs.

The way some people seem so desperate to use their own freedom of speech -to discredit and insult and shut up the protesters, makes me wonder why they want to live in America - perhaps they would be much happier in China where those people they despise so much are forced to shut up. :shifty:
How's that for Hypocracy?

Anyone who is still struggling with what the protest is about, please watch this 4 minute cartoon that explains it in laymens terms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScS9Re_osac&feature=share

August

10-13-11, 07:29 AM

soopaman2

10-13-11, 07:34 AM

You know what -you can actually defend others without having to actually become who you are defending.
Likewise you can critisize somthing that you yourself are apart of.

You dont need to be poor to sympathise with poor people,
You can still find faults with capitalism, even if you are a captialist.

The hypocracy lable is cheap and overused.

People who protest are exercising there freedom of speech and right to protest. Some are idiots who do just going long for the ride, but there is no such thing as a MASS protest without a message.
People protest to for a change of policy that is currently not on offer from their government, if enough people are behind it, then any fair democratic society should at the very least take them seriously enough to listen.
Not every protester will be united on opinion, just as every Christian, Liberal, Republican, whatever is not united in theirs.

The way some people seem so desperate to use their own freedom of speech -to discredit and insult and shut up the protesters, makes me wonder why they want to live in America - perhaps they would be much happier in China where those people they despise so much are forced to shut up. :shifty:
How's that for Hypocracy?

Anyone who is still struggling with what the protest is about, please watch this 4 minute cartoon that explains it in laymens terms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScS9Re_osac&feature=share

I find it bad that someone from the UK knows more about how America works than most Americans. They barely even teach civics in our schools nowadays.

:yeah:

Rockstar

10-13-11, 09:06 AM

Anyone who is still struggling with what the protest is about, please watch this 4 minute cartoon that explains it in laymens terms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScS9R...&feature=share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScS9Re_osac&feature=share)

Sounds very much like the same thing the Tea Party was protesting. <runs for cover>

AVGWarhawk

10-13-11, 09:10 AM

Sounds very much like the same thing the Tea Party was protesting. <runs for cover>

no need to run. I think you are correct.

JU_88

10-13-11, 11:02 AM

They had a seminar at Brown yesterday to teach the student "activists" what they are protesting about.

http://newsblog.projo.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-inspires-te.html

Keep in mind that it costs over $50K per year to attend Brown university. I'm sure those students can really relate to the problems of the working poor...

its totally irrelivant, America is their country too, maybe they do like the way thing are being done, they are entitled to their opinion regardless of their financial background. And at the rate things are going, its possible that $50k wont be worth the paper its printed on in the not to distant future anyway.
The protesters are not just student and hippies, (and who the hell are we to look down on students and hippies anyway?) many are ordinary working and middle class Americans just like you.

This petty cuture of 'discredit what you dont like' seems to me like a cowardly way of attempting to side step around issues rather than face them head on.
The American mainstream Media does it extremely well and teaches american citizens to do the same.
Turn that garbage off, there are plenty of places online where you can hear it from the horses mouth, in this day and age you no longer need a co-operate sponsered middle-man to tell you what going on in your country right now.

Gerald

10-13-11, 11:04 AM

The Wall Street-critical protests spreading like wildfire across the world and has now reached Sweden. On Saturday, said several blue and gold rallies held at least nine Swedish cities.

August

10-13-11, 11:07 AM

The protesters are not just student and hippies, (and who the hell are we to look down on students and hippies anyway?) many are ordinary working and middle class Americans just like you.

You're describing Brown students as hard working and middle class folks just like me? Hardly.

If they were that much in tune with the situation as you claim then explain why they need to be told what they're protesting?

gimpy117

10-13-11, 11:08 AM

I find it bad that someone from the UK knows more about how America works than most Americans. They barely even teach civics in our schools nowadays.

:yeah:

because they are too busy catering to standardized tests. Now for college you need to to the Sat, ACT, Meaps (in Michigan during elementary) and the MME. Sadly, schools are judged by these.

JU_88

10-13-11, 11:40 AM

You're describing Brown students as hard working and middle class folks just like me? Hardly.

If they were that much in tune with the situation as you claim then explain why they need to be told what they're protesting?

No sorry I meant the protesters in general.

August

10-13-11, 11:44 AM

No sorry I meant the protesters in general.

I don't have a problem with protestors or protesting in general, it's just I too often see a bunch of pampered and spoiled Ivy league college kids manning the barricades (so to speak) who have no absolutely clue what it really means to be in bad financial straits.

AVGWarhawk

10-13-11, 11:46 AM

because they are too busy catering to standardized tests. Now for college you need to to the Sat, ACT, Meaps (in Michigan during elementary) and the MME. Sadly, schools are judged by these.

:yep:

You are correct gimpy. The reason they teach to test is simply the way to keep their teaching jobs. Tenure is becoming something of the past. The school, however, is judged by these but the individual teacher is much more closely judged as to performance.

August

10-13-11, 12:00 PM

:yep:

You are correct gimpy. The reason they teach to test is simply the way to keep their teaching jobs. Tenure is becoming something of the past. The school, however, is judged by these but the individual teacher is much more closely judged as to performance.

As a private school teacher I have some sympathy for my public school brethren. They have less and less control over their students, more and more restrictions on their ability to do their job. It's an increasingly difficult situation they're being forced to deal with.

JU_88

10-13-11, 12:08 PM

@ august, sorry pal, I misread your post at the top of the page, my bad.

August

10-13-11, 12:11 PM

@ august, sorry pal, I misread your post at the top of the page, my bad.

:up:

soopaman2

10-13-11, 12:24 PM

As a private school teacher I have some sympathy for my public school brethren. They have less and less control over their students, more and more restrictions on their ability to do their job. It's an increasingly difficult situation they're being forced to deal with.

Here in New Jersey charter schools are starting to pick up steam because of the superior education recieved. The teachers union fights it, even as we pay the highest property tax in the nation (A majority of which goes towards schools) Pair that with having a massive, densely packed population.

Keep up the good work.

Edit: sorry for the full on thread derail.

Rockstar

10-13-11, 12:29 PM

no need to run. I think you are correct.

If that's true then it would seem people are simply too stupid to realize they are being divided played for chumps by a very few working to consolidate their power over them.

I mean if these two protest groups quit watching the talking heads telling them what to think. And actually went out and met each other they just might find they are very much the same. Might help if they just turned off the TV for a week and then went out.

But no, it will never happen because OWS is a bunch of left wing stupid freeloaders and the Tea Party is a bunch of right wing racists and bigots!

Rockstar

10-13-11, 12:31 PM

Hitler rants about the Global Financial Crisis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hab85YBYnOg&feature=related

AVGWarhawk

10-13-11, 12:35 PM

As a private school teacher I have some sympathy for my public school brethren. They have less and less control over their students, more and more restrictions on their ability to do their job. It's an increasingly difficult situation they're being forced to deal with.

I disagree. Teachers have control. Normally it is not the students but the parents that are the issue. I do not see nor have heard of any restrictions to do their jobs. The only thing being forced is actually teaching and not riding it out as some teachers with tenure do. My wife works in a Title 1 elementary school. Both my kids attend public schools. Quite frankly I'm impressed with the schools and all that is offered to my kids. The only difficult situation I see is tenure being taken away and being forced to actually teach. Michelle Rhee is right.

soopaman2

10-13-11, 12:43 PM

Hitler rants about the Global Financial Crisis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hab85YBYnOg&feature=related

99.9998% of people who see those parodies will never appreciate how awesome Bruno Ganz was in that role.

August

10-13-11, 12:54 PM

Teachers have control. Normally it is not the students but the parents that are the issue.

Your first sentence is contradicted by your second sentence. A teacher can't do anything unless the parents back them up and from what I see nowadays that doesn't happen nearly as much as it did in my day.

Sailor Steve

10-13-11, 12:54 PM

Probably some 20% of us here are among the .0002%. Go figure.

JU_88

10-13-11, 01:13 PM

99.9998% of people who see those parodies will never appreciate how awesome Bruno Ganz was in that role.

Yeah he was very, very good indeed, so good you forget he is an impersonator :)
I could be mistaken, but i think these Downfall parodies may have been started by Celeon999 over at the official Ubi ShIII forums. :D

AVGWarhawk

10-13-11, 02:46 PM

Your first sentence is contradicted by your second sentence. A teacher can't do anything unless the parents back them up and from what I see nowadays that doesn't happen nearly as much as it did in my day.

August, the teacher is not left with nothing. A student gets in trouble or has poor grades. The teacher sends a letter home or the Principal places a call. Said parent does not believe little Johnny is at fault. Always the good boy.:doh: However, with proper documentation the kid can be removed from school. Teachers do not have to sit and take eggs in the face all day. But, you are correct, the parent believes the child first before the school staff. When my kids stay home sick we get a phone call in the evening and a email that our child was not in school that day. Documentation #1. Unexcused absences can be addressed by mom and dad now if said student is not sick at home under parent supervision. Mid-semester reports are sent home. Parent Connex is a program you can track you child's progress everyday. Just more documentation at the schools disposal if any action is required.

Gerald

10-13-11, 03:41 PM

The cost of policing the ongoing demonstrations by Occupy Wall Street is mounting, according to Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly.Nearly a month after protesters took up residence at a park near Wall Street, Mr. Kelly said that overtime costs to police their activities and marches had hit nearly $2 million.On Wednesday, word came that those costs had increased to $3.2 million. Where the final figure will land is anybody’s guess.“We use people who are working their regular tours of duty, but sometimes those tours are extended,” Mr. Kelly said in explaining the management issues after a news conference at 1 Police Plaza on Friday. “You know, we are down 6,000 officers from where we were 10 years ago, so it’s difficult to do any sort of protracted operation with people who are working in their regular tour of duty. So oftentimes, demonstrations of any type require overtime.”Those added costs come at a difficult time.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/overtime-solidarity-and-complaints-in-wall-st-protests/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,October 13, 2011, 11:22 am

Sea Demon

10-13-11, 04:24 PM

I mean if these two protest groups quit watching the talking heads telling them what to think. And actually went out and met each other they just might find they are very much the same. Might help if they just turned off the TV for a week and then went out.

I attended both protest events in Sacramento, and the two groups were completely different in thought and action. The "occupiers" I found to be lacking a unified message but had a variety of chaotic messages. Where as the tea party were concise and clear about theirs..."less government waste and interference, lower taxes". Simple as that. The Tea Party were also organized, respectful, and went home to their responsibilities after the event. The occupiers have left some trash lying about, are blocking normal citizens going about their business day to day, and refuse to leave. I observed what I observed...sorry.

In one instance, about 15 of the "occupiers" tried to stop me from using a parking garage downtown because the garage belonged to some "corp.". I of course told these jerks to stuff it and parked inside. I noticed a police officer later told these people to leave the area, and they walked across the street and just yelled at drivers who were going inside. Absolutely impotent.

The people at the occupy event were also doing weird stuff like playing "Pretend Government" with a "general assembly" and such. I thought that was hilarious. And sorry, I couldn't take these people seriously. That was plain looney.

As far as a comparison, the Tea Party wants less government and lower taxes. From what I saw..the "occupiers" want other people's money and control of their investments, their tuition paid by somebody else, free healthcare, and a right to a "living wage"...whatever the heck that means. That seemed to be a recurring theme. Sorry, there simply is no comparison.

Gerald

10-14-11, 03:55 AM

Young people in knit hats and jeans scurried around Thursday wielding brooms and trash bags, moving mountains of sleeping bags, backpacks and jackets out of the way.By cleaning up Zuccotti Park on their own, they were trying to persuade the parks owner, Brookfield Properties, to back down from its plan to send in cleanup crews Friday morning and begin to enforce new rules on the use of the park that would end the Occupy Wall Street protest, at least in its current form.But as the day wore on, it seemed that the protesters efforts to placate Brookfield might, in the end, not matter, and all sides were girding for a Friday showdown. The police said they were ready to step in if the company asked for help in removing protesters or enforcing the new rules, while protesters planned to form a human chain around the park and, using Facebook and Twitter, called on sympathizers to join them.Some protesters saw the cleanup as tantamount to an eviction notice, and they vowed to stand their ground, even if it meant being arrested.This is a public park privately held I dont even understand what that means, Travis Nogle, a 32-year-old protester and earthship builder from San Francisco said as he changed his shoes and prepared to pitch in with the cleanup. We have a constitutional right to protest.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/told-to-leave-protesters-talk-pre-emptive-strategy/?ref=nyregion

Note: Update record,October 13, 2011, 2:30 pm

Torplexed

10-14-11, 05:15 AM

The people at the occupy event were also doing weird stuff like playing "Pretend Government" with a "general assembly" and such. I thought that was hilarious. And sorry, I couldn't take these people seriously. That was plain looney.

From what I've seen of the Occupy Seattle event, it just comes across as a soggier, more urban form of Burning Man. Everybody doing their own weird thing. :-?

August

10-14-11, 10:13 AM

Love her or hate her that Ann Coulter sure has a way with words:

WINGLESS, BLOODSUCKING AND PARASITIC: MEET THE FLEA PARTY!October 12, 2011

So far, the only major accomplishment of the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters is that they have finally put an end to their previous initiative, "Occupy Our Mothers' Basements."

Oddly enough for such a respectable-looking group -- a mixture of adolescents looking for a cause, public sector union members, drug dealers, criminals, teenage runaways, people who have been at every protest since the Berkeley Free Speech Movement, Andrea Dworkin look-alikes, people 95 percent of whose hair is concentrated in their ponytails and other average Democrats -- they can't even explain what they're protesting.

The protesters either treat inquiries about their purpose as a trick question, or -- worse -- instantly rattle off a series of insane causes: "No. 1, abolish capitalism; No. 2, because 9/11 was an inside job; No. 3, because Mumia is innocent ..."

Curiously, the only point universally agreed upon by the protesters and their admirers in the Democratic Party and the mainstream media is that "Occupy Wall Street" should be compared to the tea party. Yes, that would be the same tea party that has been denounced and slandered by the Democratic Party and the mainstream media for the last three years.

As a refresher: The Democratic National Committee called the tea partiers "angry mobs" and "rabid right-wing extremists." ABC said they were a "mob." CNN accused them of "rabble rousing." Harry Reid called them "evil mongers." Nancy Pelosi said they were "un-American." CNN's Anderson Cooper and every single host on MSNBC called the tea partiers a name that referred to an obscure gay sex act.

But apparently liberals couldn't even convince themselves that tea partiers were an extremist group unworthy of emulation.

At least they're embarrassed about what the OWS protesters really are: wingless, bloodsucking and parasitic. This is the flea party, not the tea party.

The rest of the article can be found at:
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-10-12.html

mookiemookie

10-14-11, 10:20 AM

Love her or hate her that Ann Coulter sure has a way with words:

If by "way with words" you mean "the mangled blood coughs of a rhetorical emphysemic on her last bits of lung"

August

10-14-11, 10:28 AM

If by "way with words" you mean "the mangled blood coughs of a rhetorical emphysemic on her last bits of lung"

Gee Mookie, I thought you detested personal attacks. Can't attack the message so you attack the messenger?

mookiemookie

10-14-11, 10:41 AM

Gee Mookie, I thought you detested personal attacks. Can't attack the message so you attack the messenger?

I'm just doing exactly what she does. Besides, there's no message there. She's completely mischaracterized the issue and her "column" if you can call it that, is completely devoid of any analysis or truth. She puts out these diatribes full of invective to simultaneously inflame those she doesn't agree with, and pander to those who do. As she's gotten more and more irrelevant, her tirades have gotten more and more outrageous and crude in a desperate attempt to hang on to the spotlight. It's pathetic and adds nothing to the national dialogue.

How's that?

August

10-14-11, 10:51 AM

I'm just doing exactly what she does. Besides, there's no message there. She's completely mischaracterized the issue and her "column" if you can call it that, is completely devoid of any analysis or truth. She puts out these diatribes full of invective to simultaneously inflame those she doesn't agree with, and pander to those who do. As she's gotten more and more irrelevant, her tirades have gotten more and more outrageous and crude in a desperate attempt to hang on to the spotlight. It's pathetic and adds nothing to the national dialogue.

How's that?

Much better! :salute:

mookiemookie

10-14-11, 11:14 AM

Much better! :salute:

I aim to please! :salute::rotfl2:

AVGWarhawk

10-14-11, 11:27 AM

Love her or hate her that Ann Coulter sure has a way with words:

The rest of the article can be found at:
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-10-12.html

The first line of hers is absolutely hysterical! I busted out laughing!

Gerald

10-14-11, 02:51 PM

A number of Wall Street protesters have been arrested in New York during scuffles with police as they marched towards the city's financial district.The confrontation came after activists averted a showdown with authorities who agreed not to move them from a park.Demonstrators said officials' plan to clean Zuccotti Park, where they have been based for weeks, had been a ploy to evict them.The protests against corporate greed have spread to other US cities.Several demonstrations are reportedly planned this weekend in Canada and Europe, as well as Asia and Africa.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15300491

Note: Update record,14 October 2011 Last updated at 19:15

JU_88

10-14-11, 02:54 PM

Live stream of the protest here,
http://www.avaaz.org/en/the_world_vs_wall_st/?fDDzsab&pv=194

Jimbuna

10-14-11, 03:29 PM

Live stream of the protest here,
http://www.avaaz.org/en/the_world_vs_wall_st/?fDDzsab&pv=194

Cool link F :sunny:

JU_88

10-14-11, 04:27 PM

Cool link F :sunny:

Actually its not a 'live' feed LOL, 1 minute it was night, then it was day... its just er ....footage i guess - meh.

Gerald

10-15-11, 04:59 AM

Protesters in cities across the world are taking to the streets to demonstrate against alleged corporate greed and government cutbacks.Organisers say rallies will be held in 951 cities in 82 countries from Asia and the Americas, to Africa and Europe.Hundreds of people have already protested in Australia and New Zealand as well as other Asian cities.Many protest groups are taking their names from the high-profile Occupy Wall Street rally in New York.Organisers of the 15 October worldwide protests said on their website that the aim was to "initiate the global change we want"."United in one voice, we will let politicians, and the financial elites they serve, know it is up to us, the people, to decide our future," it said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15319924

Note: Update record,15 October 2011 Last updated at 09:12 GMT

STEED

10-15-11, 12:08 PM

I see the protests have spread to Europe.

soopaman2

10-15-11, 12:42 PM

I see the protests have spread to Europe.

Ignore it, just more daddys basement filthy pinko liberals who don't know what's best for them. Gordon Gekko capitalism is great. The number of people sleeping under bridges, is a positive indicator in today capitalistic society. The Dow Jones goes up with the poverty level. You might be starving, but the "bottom line" is healthy.

I mean, if it was 2 people with signs I could understand everyone discounting it.

Multiple cities in the USA and overseas? Ah, it's nothing, Lets just keep privatizing the profits, and socializing the losses, then turn around and call the other side communist when they get mad at corporate welfare.

Use your brains, dont let your favorite news source make up your minds for you. Don't let your favorite political party do it either. They are into self preservation and do not represent you.