What's up with London? (riots, merged)

[Paul Riley]

No. I have a nagging feeling that you are one of those people who like magic words. I was hoping you would prove you are not. I don't see how it would be trolling that you'd say who do you think here is a communist/socialist and then explain why do you think so.

I need to watch what I say,and will continue to do that.I enjoy this forum and the company of some members,and dont want to give the moderators any excuse to punish me for feeling outraged.

[Betonov]

You're "attacked" because of the hate and stupidity you've been spewing, that doesnt make people communists or socialists.
Plenty of people here have disagreements, left and right, and they dont resort to mocking.
But when someone like you or Snestorm comes along and spew your hate and stupidty, its called out and in many cases mocked

Mocking is actually the only response that does not include lowering to their level :shifty: Ignoring is preferable, but that is no response

[Tribesman]

I just dont understand why some of you are allowed to make sarcastic remarks to some of my posts all the time,and whenever I mention something controversial or defend myself I am instantly targeted by hordes of 'apparent' communists/socialists and virtually silenced.
Perhaps its what you say that is the problem and your attempts to defend what you have said that make it even worse.
Face it young man, casual racism and very extreme but unthoughtout views are very hard to defend and very open to ridicule

[Paul Riley]

You're "attacked" because of the hate and stupidity you've been spewing, that doesnt make people communists or socialists.
Plenty of people here have disagreements, left and right, and they dont resort to mocking.
But when someone like you or Snestorm comes along and spew your hate and stupidty, its called out and in many cases mocked

Gang up on me if thats what you wish to do,mock me,it will achieve nothing,and my views will remain in place.
I will stand my ground against ANY adversity,even when it comes to defending my opinions and 'rights'. ALL of us should have a right to differing opinions,you take that right away and then you can expect trouble.

[Hottentot]

I need to watch what I say,and will continue to do that.I enjoy this forum and the company of some members,and dont want to give the moderators any excuse to punish me for feeling outraged.

Dude, you have fantasized in this very thread about killing people with axe and haven't been brigged. That's a pretty thin excuse.

[Paul Riley]

Dude, you have fantasized in this very thread about killing people with axe and haven't been brigged. That's a pretty thin excuse.

And I also mentioned about using a spade like an axe and using a dustbin lid as a shield,do you realise how funny it would be to see someone try and fight like this? I was bloody joking. :doh:

[Tribesman]

I will stand my ground against ANY adversity,even when it comes to defending my opinions and 'rights'. ALL of us should have a right to differing opinions,you take that right away and then you can expect trouble.
Wow:doh:
The major problem there is that you are unable to defend your opinion as it makes very little sense, when it is pointed out that you make no sense you come out with meaningless insults and threats

[Morts]

Gang up on me if thats what you wish to do,mock me,it will achieve nothing,and my views will remain in place.
I will stand my ground against ANY adversity,even when it comes to defending my opinions and 'rights'. ALL of us should have a right to differing opinions,you take that right away and then you can expect trouble.
No one is taking away your right to say anything, they're just calling you out on your ignorant opinions

[Hottentot]

And I also mentioned about using a spade like an axe and using a dustbin lid as a shield,do you realise how funny it would be to see someone try and fight like this? I was bloody joking. :doh:

Really?

Remember what I said above,I (and many others) have an arm tied behind my back here...my axe is sharp and ready for action when the time is right

You're a really funny guy, you know.

[danlisa]

I am clearly law abiding and respect disciplined society with zero tolerance towards crime,some of you clearly are not and will be enjoying these scenes around England at the moment,and thats why I am readily attacked,and thats why the country is in the state that its in.

Admirable traits. So what do you do when you have no recourse to express your displeasure, what do you do when your 'voice' is not heard, what do you do when you feel abandoned by your country etc......Take comfort in the fact that the 'system' works?

England,for the love of god wake up!

^ TBH, I think this country is finally 'waking up'. It's about time too. It's up for discussion whether there's better ways of going about it.

Look, I don't deny that the recent scenes are extreme and excessive, but who's to blame? For close to a decade this country/government has been dumping all over the youth of this country and something eventually had to give. This is the result for not respecting that the participating generation is the future of this country and as a result, this generation feel they have no future.

If the government or 'law abiding' citizens believe that this will be solved with 'zero tolerance' and the heavy arm of the law, they are mistaken. All that will accomplish is an initial underground movement and then a more severe re-occurrance of the past events.

At the end of the day, people need to take responsibility for their actions, those taking part in the riots and those forcing the participants hand. Unfortunately, I do not expect either side to 'man up' and admit anything, blame will be swiftly cast and a PR war will ensue with nobody bothering to examine the endemic faults that caused it all in the first place.

Peace by Force.:yeah: Woot!

[Paul Riley]

Perhaps its what you say that is the problem and your attempts to defend what you have said that make it even worse.
Face it young man, casual racism and very extreme but unthoughtout views are very hard to defend and very open to ridicule

Dont patronise me with the 'young man' :nope:
What does ridicule do for you anyway?,do you really think that will combat racist ideologies around the world?. You ought to realise that there is a huge amount of racial tension around lately,and it is going to explode like a neutron bomb very soon,its inevitable.

[Tribesman]

And I also mentioned about using a spade like an axe and using a dustbin lid as a shield,do you realise how funny it would be to see someone try and fight like this?
It isn't funny at all spades are often used in that manner and I am sure Jimbuna will have no difficulty remembering when his fellow police were using dustbin lids as shields in another usual regular round of British rioting.

[Paul Riley]

Wow:doh:
The major problem there is that you are unable to defend your opinion as it makes very little sense, when it is pointed out that you make no sense you come out with meaningless insults and threats

Makes no sense to people like yourself because you have a biased mindset,so do I.I cannot understand YOUR views,do you see a pattern forming here?.

[Paul Riley]

No one is taking away your right to say anything, they're just calling you out on your ignorant opinions

Fine,but like I said,it wont change my views about things,and I dont intend to change yours,thats impossible.

[Paul Riley]

Really?



You're a really funny guy, you know.

My axe is my mouth,its sharp and can be to the 'point' ,and thanks for thinking i'm funny,so are you :up:

[Morts]

Fine,but like I said,it wont change my views about things,and I dont intend to change yours,thats impossible.
Actually, after reading through a lot of the politics threads here and reading up on things, i have found that my views have changed a lot.

[Hottentot]

So I guess you refuse to answer the question?

That's what I thought.

[MH]

Really?



You're a really funny guy, you know.

Funny has vast meaning here lol

[Tribesman]

Makes no sense to people like yourself because you have a biased mindset,so do I.I cannot understand YOUR views,do you see a pattern forming here?.
Sorry but you have demonstrated that you don't think, have mindless racial prejudice, are completely ignorant of your own countries recent and not so recent history and equally ignorant of current events involving your own country.
That is the pattern that has formed and you painted it yourself for all to see.

[Hottentot]

Funny has vast meaning here lol

At first I was about to say that he actually is funny, just not the way he thinks. Then I realized it's not true either. I stand by my worried state born few pages ago.

[Paul Riley]

Admirable traits. So what do you do when you have no recourse to express your displeasure, what do you do when your 'voice' is not heard, what do you do when you feel abandoned by your country etc......Take comfort in the fact that the 'system' works?



^ TBH, I think this country is finally 'waking up'. It's about time too. It's up for discussion whether there's better ways of going about it.

Look, I don't deny that the recent scenes are extreme and excessive, but who's to blame? For close to a decade this country/government has been dumping all over the youth of this country and something eventually had to give. This is the result for not respecting that the participating generation is the future of this country and as a result, this generation feel they have no future.

If the government or 'law abiding' citizens believe that this will be solved with 'zero tolerance' and the heavy arm of the law, they are mistaken. All that will accomplish is an initial underground movement and then a more severe re-occurrance of the past events.

At the end of the day, people need to take responsibility for their actions, those taking part in the riots and those forcing the participants hand. Unfortunately, I do not expect either side to 'man up' and admit anything, blame will be swiftly cast and a PR war will ensue with nobody bothering to examine the endemic faults that caused it all in the first place.

Peace by Force.:yeah: Woot!

Hi mate,

Problem is these yobs today have no shame,no heart,they would murder their own mothers in order to buy drugs etc.We are not dealing with normal people,I would never DREAM of carrying out such carnage in my own country!.We are dealing with degenerates in society that doesnt understand what it means to exist in a civilized fashion.The police need to remove the problem,and sling them in prison for a LONG time,with no Sky TV,no recreation rooms,no inside jobs,they need to be punished for these WICKED crimes :nope:

Hope you understand me here.

[Paul Riley]

Sorry but you have demonstrated that you don't think, have mindless racial prejudice, are completely ignorant of your own countries recent and not so recent history and equally ignorant of current events involving your own country.
That is the pattern that has formed and you painted it yourself for all to see.

I am ignorant to my own country? :o
Come on,give us all another wise crack remark.Idiot.

I'm out of here,thanks a lot!.I simply cannot bear being near people like you.

[Paul Riley]

At first I was about to say that he actually is funny, just not the way he thinks. Then I realized it's not true either. I stand by my worried state born few pages ago.

Glad you think its funny,because I and many others dont.You ought to be ashamed of yourselves for mocking and undermining this sensitive situation.

[Paul Riley]

No, they are found in Cyprus.


They pulled out of Basra over two years ago and Helmand is in central asia

They are in Cyprus are they,ok whatever you say.

Helmand is in Afghanistan you idiot,and thats the middle east!.

[Hottentot]

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves for mocking and undermining this sensitive situation.

Will you please show me where I have mocked the situation? Your proposition is as preposterous as it's insulting.

[Tribesman]

I am ignorant to my own country?
Yes, as you have indeed demonstrated very well.

Will you please show me where I have mocked the situation?
Its probably in the same place as where I said something I should be shot for

[Paul Riley]

Will you please show me where I have mocked the situation? Your proposition is as preposterous as it's insulting.

I dont need to do anything just to give you more satisfaction in 'bleeding' me for your own pleasure/s.
And yes,I expect to get banned pretty soon,its going to happen at this rate,and no doubt you and your mates will have a hand in that.At least I got all the best mods I can think of for GWX at the moment,might try and squeeze a few more in today if i'm lucky.
So much for democracy,what a crock of horse pi##.

Thanks :down:

[Oberon]

Will you two just get a room already?

[Tribesman]

Helmand is in Afghanistan you idiot,and thats the middle east!.
No that is the place on the other side of Iran just above the Indian sub-continent.

[Paul Riley]

Yes, as you have indeed demonstrated very well.


Its probably in the same place as where I said something I should be shot for

Make no mistake,you would have been shot at one time for some of your comments.Think yourselves lucky that you live in tolerant times.Now thats not just me saying that,its a fact,thats what they did,they didnt tolerate such slanderous speech.

[danlisa]

Hi mate,

Problem is these yobs today have no shame,no heart,they would murder their own mothers in order to buy drugs etc.We are not dealing with normal people,I would never DREAM of carrying out such carnage in my own country!.We are dealing with degenerates in society that doesnt understand what it means to exist in a civilized fashion.The police need to remove the problem,and sling them in prison for a LONG time,with no Sky TV,no recreation rooms,no inside jobs,they need to be punished for these WICKED crimes :nope:

Hope you understand me here.

No. I do not believe that. This action is too far spread to be just 'the seedy degenerate criminal type'. Yes a percentage may be but to tar all of the participants as murdering druggies is tantamount to the same high esteem that our government holds most of our countries youth in.

Being brutally honest, it's a very bigoted mind set you have there. Forcefully imposing 'peace' is not the answer, imprisoning mass offenders is not the answer (especially on an already over populated and failing prison system), the true answer is one that has eluded this government for a long time and I'm not sure I, or anyone else, can safely say what it is but it must start with the realisation that there has been a systematic failure when it comes to this particular demographic.

What needs to happen now is restraint, no heavy handed tactics and absolutely no casualties (on either side). We need to mediate this situation by whatever means are necessary. Forcefully quelling this action will only result in future outbreaks.

[Hottentot]

I dont need to do anything just to give you more satisfaction in 'bleeding' me for your own pleasure/s

You call people communists and socialists and accuse them of doing things they haven't. When asked to stand by your claim like a man and prove it, you bugger out and cry mommy. What a sad boy.

For anyone else reading this. You may notice that I have so far refrained and will refrain from the other thread concerning the topic for avoiding the very thing Paul here accused me of doing. I'm sorry this went the way it did and I am to blame as well, but I will not take this quarrel outside of this thread.

[Paul Riley]

No. I do not believe that. This action is too far spread to be just 'the seedy degenerate criminal type'. Yes a percentage may be but to tar all of the participants as murdering druggies is tantamount to the same high esteem that our government holds most of our countries youth in.

Being brutally honest, it's a very bigoted mind set you have there. Forcefully imposing 'peace' is not the answer, imprisoning mass offenders is not the answer (especially on an already over populated and failing prison system), the true answer is one that has eluded this government for a long time and I'm not sure I, or anyone else, can safely say what it is but it must start with the realisation that there has been a systematic failure when it comes to this particular demographic.

What needs to happen now is restraint, no heavy handed tactics and absolutely no casualties (on either side). We need to mediate this situation by whatever means are necessary. Forcefully quelling this action will only result in future outbreaks.

No casualties?
Well,a man was shot in his car last night,he died earlier today in hospital.

[Paul Riley]

You call people communists and socialists and accuse them of doing things they haven't. When asked to stand by your claim like a man and prove it, you bugger out and cry mommy. What a sad boy.

For anyone else reading this. You may notice that I have so far refrained and will refrain from the other thread concerning the topic for avoiding the very thing Paul here accused me of doing. I'm sorry this went the way it did and I am to blame as well, but I will not take this quarrel outside of this thread.

Thats fine,say hello to my ignore list.
You wouldnt be so smug if you met me would you?,I wonder if you would say half of that you just did.

[danlisa]

No casualties?
Well,a man was shot in his car last night,he died earlier today in hospital.

Yep, I know that. We're talking about moving forward.

[max-peck]

you may want to re-chek that, I think that you meant Cyprus as one of them Iraqs

You're right Tribesman, I totally typed that wrong.

I actually meant to type

British troops (along with those from many other nations) are still engaged in Afganistan.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Not sure what your fixation with Cyprus is though :06:

[Paul Riley]

Yep, I know that. We're talking about moving forward.

If ever we manage that :nope:

[Tribesman]

Make no mistake,you would have been shot at one time for some of your comments.Think yourselves lucky that you live in tolerant times.Now thats not just me saying that,its a fact,thats what they did,they didnt tolerate such slanderous speech.
This should be funny, I love it when some people use the word "fact".......
Can you possibly point out any comment which would have got me shot and then cite the law under which it would have been done?

[Hottentot]

Thats fine,say hello to my ignore list.

Is Tribesman there too?

You wouldnt be so smug if you met me would you?,I wonder if you would say half of that you just did.

Yes. Was that another threat?

[Sammi79]

Mega-smug quote of the century :-

0930 this morning,

Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast has urged the UK government to avoid "harsh confrontation" and exercise restraint when dealing with demonstrators, BBC Monitoring reports.

:har:

[Betonov]

You're right Betonov, I totally typed that wrong.

Fixed that for you.
The talk was about Cyprus so I thought you meant Cyprus. My mistake :03:

[Paul Riley]

15.000 officers have been drafted in for tonight's expected carnage.Lets hope they manage to hold their ground this time and arrest the scum,at least a large swathe of them.
Plastic bulllets and batons are probably going to be employed.The army MAY be put on standby in the meantime in case the police begin to struggle again.

[Tribesman]

You wouldnt be so smug if you met me would you?,
Is he Irish too?
You naughty hottentot , hiding your nationality like that:rotfl2:

[Paul Riley]

Mega-smug quote of the century :-

0930 this morning,

Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast has urged the UK government to avoid "harsh confrontation" and exercise restraint when dealing with demonstrators, BBC Monitoring reports.

:har:

Incredible isnt it :o

[Oberon]

Plastic bulllets and batons are probably going to be employed.The army MAY be put on standby in the meantime in case the police begin to struggle again.

Source?

[Sammi79]

I bet Gaddafi's chuckling to himself right now too.

[Tribesman]

Not sure what your fixation with Cyprus is though
Just that it is their only current middle eastern deployment.
Young Paul seem to thing British troops are getting killed daily in the middle east, but then again he thinks they are stilll in Basra, I wonder if he knows they pulled out of Aden years ago too.

[Betonov]

A bit on-topic

The general feel in my country in regards to the riots is a condemnation of the violence and vandalism, but a un-nearving feeling that the same might erupt here as well soon. The goverment is bumbling down the recesion by raising prices on everything, the elite is stealing anything they can touch despite everyone knowing it and the young feel that the future is not something to look forward to.

[Hottentot]

Is he Irish too?

No, I'm worse. I'm a Finn, but some of my ancestry are from Norway. Paul's beloved vikings, I guess. I'm an offspring of dirty immigrant traders, seeing that we have already proved that once an immigrant, always an immigrant. But it gets worse. I have bloodties to Ingria as well. Get it? Those weirdos whom the Finns call Ruskies and the Russians don't consider Russian (or that's what I heard a few times). They're like immigrants even where they live in!

Who wants to shoot me?

[Paul Riley]

Source?

I recent Sky News report,i've been watching it all day.

[Paul Riley]

Source?

A recent Sky News report,i've been watching it all day.
It wouldnt surprise me if they DO employ these methods,its that bad.

[danlisa]

I recent Sky News report,i've been watching it all day.

Pfft Sky News are sensationalist at best.

Try this for the PM's statement: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8691034/London-riots-Prime-Ministers-statement-in-full.html

[Oberon]

A recent Sky News report,i've been watching it all day.
It wouldnt surprise me if they DO employ these methods,its that bad.

Nah. They did discuss it...that's what Sky news probably latched on to, but tonight they'll be using the numbers game...whether that'll work or not, who knows? TBH I don't think even calling the army in will work, this will end when they either run out of things to loot or it starts raining.

[max-peck]

Sorry Betonov, I'm really not having a good day am I?

I should really proof read my posts before hitting the submit button :oops:

No offence meant mate.

[Oberon]

The President of the Association of Chief Police Officers on BBC News now makes a good point, water cannons and baton rounds are blunt weapons for use against static crowds...these are not static crowds. He was quite scathing of those making those 'uninformed comments about bringing in water cannons and baton rounds'.

[Betonov]

To bad you're not from my parts, you could blame the weather :DL

No offence, it was actually funny :DL

[Herr-Berbunch]

There is no way the Army would be deployed to curb the unrest! They don't have the training or experience of doing so (over 20 years ago does not give experience to todays intakes). They'd be unarmed, or worse - armed without ammunition (bin lids and sticks) which always raised a chuckle during briefings/training. Whilst in many other countries that would be the method used we would be hypocritical to do so - Syria, Bahrain, Libya, Egypt... all recent, all decried for their use of the military. Britishness dictates the military don't take to the streets against rampaging thugs. This is not the same as sectarian violence of NI.

(Edit: If however rioting starts in Wooton Bassett I'm sure every uniformed bloke throughout the land would gladly oppose!)

Talking of which, the only British water-cannons are in NI and it's marching season. And there's only six. So that's a no-no, but my preferred option (after parents keeping their kids in!).



On a lighter note, massive TVs looted from Currys, beer looted from the supermarkets, and tomorrows football match cancelled. What they going to watch now?

[Paul Riley]

I woulldnt rule it out just yet,tonight could get VERY ugly,and I really hope it doesnt kick off here in Sheffield,we had a few protests down near the Town Hall a few months back,something that hasnt been seen for quite a while.
The latest comments by a chief inspector regarding tonight's possible tactics are:

- the use of plastic bullets
- the use of baton rounds
- the use of columns of armoured police vehicles to 'seal off' vulnerable streets.

In a way i'm intrigued at the prospects of tonight's anticipated events,we are not accustomed to things on this scale here in England,maybe in the old days but certainly not in this age.

[Betonov]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-246698-galleryV9-oncb.jpg

How did they manage THAT :o

[Morts]

Helmand is in Afghanistan you idiot,and thats the middle east!.
No.

Afghanistan is a landlocked country in South and Central Asia

[Morts]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-246698-galleryV9-oncb.jpg

How did they manage THAT :o
Anarchist Socialist Communists have special powers

[Paul Riley]

There is no way the Army would be deployed to curb the unrest! They don't have the training or experience of doing so (over 20 years ago does not give experience to todays intakes). They'd be unarmed, or worse - armed without ammunition (bin lids and sticks) which always raised a chuckle during briefings/training. Whilst in many other countries that would be the method used we would be hypocritical to do so - Syria, Bahrain, Libya, Egypt... all recent, all decried for their use of the military. Britishness dictates the military don't take to the streets against rampaging thugs. This is not the same as sectarian violence of NI.

Talking of which, the only British water-cannons are in NI and it's marching season. And there's only six. So that's a no-no, but my preferred option (after parents keeping their kids in!).



On a lighter note, massive TVs looted from Currys, beer looted from the supermarkets, and tomorrows football match cancelled. What they going to watch now?

Hi Tony,

How about deploying units of SAS counter terrorist units (initially using only non lethal rounds),after all,the capital and other major cities are virtually under siege.THEY certainly are trained in these sorts of emergencies :|\\

[Paul Riley]

Why not let loose the football fans on them? they love to fight and all this is stopping their matches ;)
I reckon this is a GREAT idea! hehehe

[Paul Riley]

You're right Tribesman, I totally typed that wrong.

I actually meant to type

British troops (along with those from many other nations) are still engaged in Afganistan.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Not sure what your fixation with Cyprus is though :06:

I dont understand the fixation with Cyprus either,was totally not prepared for that one :06::-?

[Tribesman]

There is no way the Army would be deployed to curb the unrest! They don't have the training or experience of doing so (over 20 years ago does not give experience to todays intakes). They'd be unarmed, or worse - armed without ammunition (bin lids and sticks) which always raised a chuckle during briefings/training.
It did give me a laugh round Oakhanger and Bordon(what a dump) when they was out in army riot gear, shields and pick axe handles while out looking for suspicious bombs in the bins.

Talking of which, the only British water-cannons are in NI and it's marching season.
There is only the Apprentices and Blacks coming up, the only trouble this year has been the few bits in Belfast on the peace line and some tiny stuff after portadown.....unless of course the OIRA/PIRA/CIRA start beating each other up over who is really the republican at the internment march. But that is normally one group stands up and does their nonsense then the other gets up and does the same nonsense then the other ....,.

[Oberon]

With what though? And against what? By the time the police have shown up to the incidents there's no-one there or only those too slow to get away, and those are the people who have been arrested.
Rumour on Twitter has Bluewater getting hit tonight. So...that'll be different.

[Penguin]

Here is a pretty good article about the options the police has against the rioters and the (dis-)advantages they provide: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14459127

Some people also used other options:

In Dalston, with little protection from the police, dozens of Turkish men took matters into their own hands and chased away youths from their restaurants and businesses in Kingsland Road.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23976730-i-begged-them-to-spare-my-shop-but-the-thugs-kept-coming-back.do
Those damned immigrants know how to look after each other! :D :up:

The article writes about the little shopkeepers who lost all they have, really touchy!

On the other hand I see also a danger, when people take the law into their own hand, that we will have the first deaths soon... :shifty:

[Tribesman]

Why not let loose the football fans on them?
Because they are the people that are usually rioting anyway

THEY certainly are trained in these sorts of emergencies
No the SAS are highly trained special forces, they are not trained to stop thieving and arson.

[Growler]

There is a lot of fear, a lot of doubt, and a lot of uncertainty afoot in the Western world today. Calling in the military will only exacerbate those factors, and is political dynamite besides, entirely aside from the time-delay between the recall order and the troops' actual return. I don't even want to guess what kind of chaos would erupt if protestors discovered the military were on the way to intervene.

What happens when those military-augmented police kill someone in this age of cell phone cameras? Much like the video from the Iran protests, where a young woman was killed, the global condemnation - justified or not - would be devestating for British global presence in this wired age.

For Americans, it isn't a great stretch to remember what happened at Kent State, when National Guard troops opened fire on college students, killing four; and those protests were not at the level currently ongoing in England.

People are going to be hurt, and probably killed. Material losses are already high, and will doubtless increase. But deploying the military to try and control the situation will probably not help ol' Blighty at all, and may in fact serve as the primer to a cataclysmic explosion of dissent and discord.

[Paul Riley]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-246698-galleryV9-oncb.jpg

How did they manage THAT :o

Surely the work of Godzilla :dead:

[Paul Riley]

There is a lot of fear, a lot of doubt, and a lot of uncertainty afoot in the Western world today. Calling in the military will only exacerbate those factors, and is political dynamite besides, entirely aside from the time-delay between the recall order and the troops' actual return. I don't even want to guess what kind of chaos would erupt if protestors discovered the military were on the way to intervene.

What happens when those military-augmented police kill someone in this age of cell phone cameras? Much like the video from the Iran protests, where a young woman was killed, the global condemnation - justified or not - would be devestating for British global presence in this wired age.

For Americans, it isn't a great stretch to remember what happened at Kent State, when National Guard troops opened fire on college students, killing four; and those protests were not at the level currently ongoing in England.

People are going to be hurt, and probably killed. Material losses are already high, and will doubtless increase. But deploying the military to try and control the situation will probably not help ol' Blighty at all, and may in fact serve as the primer to a cataclysmic explosion of dissent and discord.

Most sensible people would not engage the military in hand to hand combat,they probably would get mauled pretty bad.At best they would merely serve as a further deterrant against 'charging' police lines.They dont necessarily have to shoot people,but they would have to if they believed theirs or anyone elses life was at risk from these rioters.No,these thugs have already shown that they have no reason (they even attack firemen as they try to combat fires!) or mercy for innocent people or their property,and should be dealt with in an appropriate manner.If England continues to turn a blind eye all the time it can only expect worse to happen in the near future.
I personally hope there is an armed presence before long,people are starting to get very scared now and some have already left their homes :cry:

Very sad.

[Penguin]

How did they manage THAT :o

I didn't know that your eyes are so bad. Look at the lower middle of the picture. See: just normal female parking :D

[Oberon]

On the other hand I see also a danger, when people take the law into their own hand, that we will have the first deaths soon... :shifty:

Thanks for the links. Alas we've already had one death from a shooting.

[Paul Riley]

I didn't know that your eyes are so bad. Look at the lower middle of the picture. See: just normal female parking :D

Women drivers eh,bloody awful ;)

[Tribesman]

Most sensible people would not engage the military in hand to hand combat,they probably would get mauled pretty bad.At best they would merely serve as a further deterrant against 'charging' police lines.They dont necessarily have to shoot people,but would if they believed their or anyone elses life was at risk from rioters.No,these thugs have already shown that they have no reason or mercy for innocent people,and should be dealt with in an appropriate manner.If England continues to turn a blind eye all the time it can only expect worse to happen in the near future.
I personally hope there is an armed presence before long,people are starting to get very scared and some are leaving their homes

Leaving aside issues like mob mentality and the dynamics of the crowd which I think may be beyond you, I must ask ....did you actually understand a single thing that Growler just wrote which you "replied" to

[jumpy]

I just dont understand why some of you are allowed to make sarcastic remarks to some of my posts all the time,and whenever I mention something controversial or defend myself I am instantly targeted by hordes of 'apparent' communists/socialists and virtually silenced.Reminds me of the Thought Police from 1984 :damn:
I have rights to speak and voice my opinions too,this is after all that ridiculous notion of democracy we are supposed to live in you know :yawn:
I am clearly law abiding and respect disciplined society with zero tolerance towards crime,some of you clearly are not and will be enjoying these scenes around England at the moment,and thats why I am readily attacked,and thats why the country is in the state that its in.

England,for the love of god wake up!


Sorry to say it Paul, but you have been thrashing about in this thread like a fire-hose without any firemen.

I know Tribesman can be a little pedantic (and you know you are chap ;) ) but you have not really done yourself any favours here with your rhetoric.

Even after you said you were going to drop the ball between you and Tribesman (with your ignore list), you kept on responding to the comments - you could have taken the choice to step back a little and take stock.
See my quote above - your comments are vastly out of proportion to what has been said, and I don't believe you are employing hyperbole in what you say.
You skirt the limits of what I consider to be acceptable behaviour here
You wouldnt be so smug if you met me would you?,I wonder if you would say half of that you just did.
That's nothing but an outright combative response. I could interpret it in the following ways - you think Hottentot is baiting you and wouldn't dare say that to your face because he hasn't the guts, or he wouldn't dare to say that to your face for fear of the consequences of what you imply might be his for speaking to you like that.
It all smacks of 'you get yours if you met me' and 'you spilled my pint' bs I see in town most weekends.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have just expressed your ire at the riot's situation badly, and lost in the moment, did not have the control not to respond in an ill manner when people called you out on it, But I know others will not be so easy in their assessment.

From what I can see of these 'riots' this is nothing compared to things that have happened in the past, and whilst circumstances surrounding them may be slightly different, so far they are not exceeding in scale or violence events that have happened previously - see miners strikes, poll-tax riots, bradford riots - the list goes on. All of these had much more dangerous and long lasting undertones. I know the media labelled the student fees protests as 'riots', but that's just media hype for you.

What we have here is a mass media coverage of some thuggery and expression of disaffection, all the more potent for its 'on the hour every hour' media coverage and its resultant 'spread' to a few other cities. You have to remember that there's nothing better than fearful mothers clutching children, and sobbing home/business owners to sell news. Look at how media vultures quickly move on to the next carcass of a story to institute their saturation bombing of headlines and self-righteous questioning of how authority is handling the situation.

I could be proved wrong in all of this, but declaring this has reached the scale of requiring the military to 'step in' is just foolish, in fact it is dangerous rabble-rousing of the sort promoted by incessant media coverage. FFS, the police have not resolved to use other means at their disposal yet, such as water cannons, preferring to stick to men on the ground to restore public order in these places.

I'm sure Tribesman would agree that there's a good deal more violence on the streets of ireland on a regular basis than compares to these events. It's not really reported as such, because we all know there's no such thing as 'sectarian violence' there anymore :roll: Most likely this is his reason for disagreeing with your point of view. Mine too for that matter if you want to call me on it.

Take a moment to relax. Turn off the news, go and make a cup of tea or something soporific, trust me it will do you good. It certainly will not change the events happening outside, in london or elsewhere, any more than ranting about it here will.

[Oberon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hpMzfKKg__8/S6rCBwremPI/AAAAAAAABxU/tHWOsha6sNk/s1600/Keep+Calm+and+put+the+kettle+on.png

[Growler]

Most sensible people would not engage the military in hand to hand combat,they probably would get mauled pretty bad.At best they would merely serve as a further deterrant against 'charging' police lines.They dont necessarily have to shoot people,but they would have to if they believed theirs or anyone elses life was at risk from these rioters.No,these thugs have already shown that they have no reason (they even attack firemen as they try to combat fires!) or mercy for innocent people or their property,and should be dealt with in an appropriate manner.If England continues to turn a blind eye all the time it can only expect worse to happen in the near future.
I personally hope there is an armed presence before long,people are starting to get very scared now and some have already left their homes :cry:

Very sad.


Paul, do you see what you did here? You started by saying, "Most sensible people..." and then follow-up with, "...these thugs have... no reason." That's exactly my point - small minds are travelling in great herds right now, and if you involve the military, it cannot end well for England, at any level. Sensibility on the part of the protestors is not in play any longer; if you give them bayonets to impale themselves upon, some of them will. I'm not suggesting turning a blind eye, but I am suggesting that someone take a level-headed approach to containing and resolving this crisis without provoking an uneasy population any further - and calling in the military will do exactly that.

[Paul Riley]

A tribute to Admiral Nelson,a true English warrior that defended his country to the bitter end.We could do with him today.
Plus its a great tune to have in your UBoats,I have it on mine :arrgh!:
No flaming remarks about this one,its a tribute to a good man nothing more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZfYtCLA23s

[Paul Riley]

Paul, do you see what you did here? You started by saying, "Most sensible people..." and then follow-up with, "...these thugs have... no reason." That's exactly my point - small minds are travelling in great herds right now, and if you involve the military, it cannot end well for England, at any level. Sensibility on the part of the protestors is not in play any longer; if you give them bayonets to impale themselves upon, some of them will. I'm not suggesting turning a blind eye, but I am suggesting that someone take a level-headed approach to containing and resolving this crisis without provoking an uneasy population any further - and calling in the military will do exactly that.

However you see it its a bloody mess we have ourselves in :nope:
How do you suggest the government/and or police deal with these disorderly insane mobs? Seriously,I would like to see some genuine solutions here.Multi-culturalism is obviously not working,in fact its one of the main causes of tension and unrest around the world.
Maybe we should put them in control of the country?,let them do as they please.
I am not being sarcastic here by the way.

[Paul Riley]

Looks like disturbances have now been reported in Nottingham and Leeds.
Would it be wrong of me to say "i'm starting to sh#t myself now" .Leeds is like 50 miles or so up the M1 from Sheffield.I dearly hope that most Sheffielders are better than this and dont stoop to this level of insanity.
If anyone mocks this post then that will be below the belt and is not called for.We need to put our differences to one side here and support each other...we are in deep trouble.I really DO feel nauseous with fear now.
Also,it appears that a 16 yr old male has been arrested in Glasgow for trying to incite riots.

Please,someone help us out :cry:

[Blood_splat]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-246698-galleryV9-oncb.jpg

How did they manage THAT :o

Lord Voldemort

[jumpy]

Anyone notice the hydraulic crane arm/piston in the top left hand corner? Without further evidence to the contrary, I'd wager that those burnt out vehicles are on the back of a transporter.

Did I spoil the magic? sorry... :O:

[Tribesman]

How do you suggest the government/and or police deal with these disorderly insane mobs
The same way Britain has dealt with them since the mid 1930s, the earlier fall out was very long lasting

Multi-culturalism is obviously not working,in fact its one of the main causes of tension and unrest around the world.

Should I even bother pointing out that that is pure nonsense?
You are still stuck on your "political" agenda and cannot see anything.

I am not being sarcastic here by the way.
But you are not being sensible. Take note of Growlers most important words "level headed"

[Oberon]

Calm down, I doubt Sheffield will go up and if it does, well Sheffield is a big place and they can't be everywhere at once, it might just pass you by. No sense panicking about something that you have no control over. Just have to watch and wait...like everyone else in the big cities tonight.

[Tribesman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC8nyBr9_-8&feature=related

[Growler]

However you see it its a bloody mess we have ourselves in :nope:
How do you suggest the government/and or police deal with these disorderly insane mobs? Seriously,I would like to see some genuine solutions here.Multi-culturalism is obviously not working,in fact its one of the main causes of tension and unrest around the world.
Maybe we should put them in control of the country?,let them do as they please.
I am not being sarcastic here by the way.

Firstly, fostering the mentality that there's an "us" and a "them" will NOT help; like it or not, there are British subjects in those crowds, of all races, all religions. You're going to have to learn to live with them to some extent when this is all over, so my first suggestion would be to stop banging on about multiculturalism, because that level of divisiveness won't help the current crises.

Second, Britain will need to assert the moral high ground here if they want to lower the tension preliminary to defusing this ticking bomb. Public opinion matters now; the wired world gets news much faster than it once did. Mistakes on the part of authority will only exacerbate the rioters' actions. Swift, but carefully deliberated actions are called for; video of police beating unarmed civilians will not help.

Understand that the forces of law and order are viewed by many as the forces of oppression - there will ALWAYS be some sympathy for the rioters in some parts of the global psyche, and you'll never win those over. What you do need to win over are those who can sympathize with the rioters' alleged purposes while not agreeing with their actions. That's going to be harder.

[Oberon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC8nyBr9_-8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URWXkPDwG0g

[HunterICX]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hpMzfKKg__8/S6rCBwremPI/AAAAAAAABxU/tHWOsha6sNk/s1600/Keep+Calm+and+put+the+kettle+on.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKr9eja-1cw&feature=player_detailpage#t=24s :03:

HunterICX

[Herr-Berbunch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MILArKLKUEk :O:

[Paul Riley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MILArKLKUEk :O:

Pretty much like how i'm feeling currently :timeout: !

[Paul Riley]

Boris Johnson was booed earlier in Birmingham and told to "go home!"

[heartc]

They are in Cyprus are they,ok whatever you say.

Helmand is in Afghanistan you idiot,and thats the middle east!.


However you see it its a bloody mess we have ourselves in :nope:
How do you suggest the government/and or police deal with these disorderly insane mobs? Seriously,I would like to see some genuine solutions here.Multi-culturalism is obviously not working,in fact its one of the main causes of tension and unrest around the world.
Maybe we should put them in control of the country?,let them do as they please.
I am not being sarcastic here by the way.

Makes no sense to people like yourself because you have a biased mindset,so do I.I cannot understand YOUR views,do you see a pattern forming here?.

Oh indeed. This needs to stop!
I'm getting eye cancer from it.

There is a blank between punctuation marks and the next word. And there is no way in hell to put a full stop behind an exclamation mark or a question mark. They are legitimate punctiation marks to end a sentence in their own right. You put EITHER a full stop there, OR something else, got it?

It is laughable how you "worry" about them dirty brown people ruining your culture while you yourself can't even write properly in your own language.

[Paul Riley]

Oh indeed. This needs to stop!
I'm getting eye cancer from it.

There is a blank between punctuation marks and the next word. And there is no way in hell to put a full stop behind an exclamation mark or a question mark. They are legitimate punctiation marks to end a sentence in their own right. You put EITHER a full stop there, OR something else, got it?

It is laughable how you "worry" about them dirty brown people ruining your culture while you yourself can't even write properly in your own language.

Get lost.
And my name is Paul Riley,not Paul RLY?,hypocrite.
Oh I get it,you were being sarcastic by highlighting my very blatant punctuation errors and so you purposely mispelled my name,my mistake.

[Oberon]

Boris Johnson was booed earlier in Birmingham and told to "go home!"

Which is interesting considering that he's in London...

Teleportation skills? Would explain his hair...

[Tribesman]

Boris Johnson was booed earlier in Birmingham and told to "go home!"
Lucky it wasn't Liverpool, they probably would have kicked the crap out of him after he upset the whole city.
BTW this Birmingham, is that part of Clapham?

[Paul Riley]

Which is interesting considering that he's in London...

Teleportation skills? Would explain his hair...

I'm only passing on what was said on the news earlier *sigh*

UPDATE - Sorry,it appears it was Clegg that was booed in Birmingham.Having said that Johnson still got a roasting from some fans whichever city he was in.He was also holding a silly green plastic sweeping brush and was urging Londoners to "help sweep the mess up from their great city" ...moron.

[Tribesman]

Sorry,it appears it was Clegg that was booed in Birmingham.
Clegg would probably get booed at his own party conference, I wouldn't be surprised if he got booed at home too.

He was also holding a silly green plastic sweeping brush and was urging Londoners to "help sweep the mess up from their great city" ...moron.
So was that the clip where he was with the londoners who were clearing up the mess?
morons eh I can't imagine why 70,000 people would suddenly sign up to a campaign to clear up the mess on their streets, they should be cowering in fear in case the mob cracks a safe with a machete:doh:

[Hottentot]

Careful, he might ignore you.

[Jimbuna]

Look....can the name calling, baiting and other behaviour that is contrary to the forum rules stop right now. This is the second thread on the same subject that is going downhill rapidly.







@Paul FYI (and meant separately from the above).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Cyprus

Britain has has had a military presence in Cyprus since before the day I was born and actually has two sovereign base areas.

In 1984 I honeymooned there and the number of personnel was in excess of 10,000 but is less than half that number today.

[Growler]

Paul, here's something a little more positive:

LINK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857)

Don't give up hope - there are folks of character of all races and all creeds working to make a better choice.

[Tribesman]

Careful, he might ignore you.
Who, Nick Clegg or Boris Johnston?:rotfl2:

Damn they are alll getting in on the act now, Jamie Oliver wants to thank the people in London and Birmingham who are cleaning up the mess round his propeerties.

[Oberon]

Oh yeah, this'll be the big "Big Society" act to get everyone together to 'Make Britain Great' by cleaning up the mess, etc, etc, etc.

Basically, politicians trying to gain credit off other peoples hard work and misery. So, business as usual then.

BBC News live text seems to indicate that West Bromwich has had a spot of bother, nothing too serious though and it seems to have been quickly brought under control.

A little more troubling though is this:

1644:
Two 18-year-olds are arrested in Folkestone, Kent, after Scotland Yard says a number of "inflammatory" comments were seen on Facebook in relation to rioting in London and other cities.

What is 'inflammatory'? Are they in support of the riots, against it? Were they involved? If not then why are they being arrested? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

This situation was always going happen. There's only so much that can be taken away from people before they start to rise up in protest. Saw this coming years ago.

.."

What did they "take away" from the people? And who are the they you are referring to?


I'm assuming you mean the govt, what did they take away from the people?

[Paul Riley]

Teleportation skills? Would explain his hair...

LOL

[Paul Riley]

Calm down, I doubt Sheffield will go up and if it does, well Sheffield is a big place and they can't be everywhere at once, it might just pass you by. No sense panicking about something that you have no control over. Just have to watch and wait...like everyone else in the big cities tonight.

God I hope you are right.

[heartc]

Get lost.

Get lost.
And my name is Paul Riley,not Paul RLY?,hypocrite.Oh I get it,you were being sarcastic,my mistake.


Get lost.
And my name is Paul Riley,not Paul RLY?,hypocrite.
Oh I get it,you were being sarcastic by highlighting my very blatant punctuation errors and so you purposely mispelled my name,my mistake.

How many more times are you going to carefully edit your response? I knew this would happen, since in your first response there was way too little drama. But I thought it was best the first time around. The last edition only shows that you didn't even get the reference / joke.

I think you're putting way too much weight into what you think is your "standing" here, trying to be the p. cool guy while in reality you're just making a fool out of yourself with your racist bigotry and your inability to comprehend what others are trying to tell you, punctuation be damned.

Maybe you need to get out more. You might even meet some of those brown people and realize they're human, too, and some might actually be smarter than you. You've already proven that you're not a learning animal by sticking to your "blatant punctuation errors".
OK, that's not fair, I know it's just a childish attempt of defiance, but again it makes you look foolish. Errors are errors, regardless who pointed them out. And suppose that I again knew you would react like that, in an effort to force you to keep making those errors out of defiance? You see, I've won both ways. I guess that now makes me an internet hero! Like you want to be with your tough talk.

A real man would have put his newly learned skill to use, like: "Well, thank you very much Sir for pointing that out to me, and now go ******* yourself!" ;)

Take care.

[Oberon]

Sales of Baseball bats on Amazon.co.uk up by 5149%.

I am not kidding.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bs_tab

:doh:

[jumpy]

Oh yeah, this'll be the big "Big Society" act to get everyone together to 'Make Britain Great' by cleaning up the mess, etc, etc, etc.

Basically, politicians trying to gain credit off other peoples hard work and misery. So, business as usual then.

BBC News live text seems to indicate that West Bromwich has had a spot of bother, nothing too serious though and it seems to have been quickly brought under control.

A little more troubling though is this:



What is 'inflammatory'? Are they in support of the riots, against it? Were they involved? If not then why are they being arrested? :hmmm:

There was talk the other day of the police monitoring social media sites so they could crack down on people stirring up trouble - make of that what you will. I'd suppose it was incitement to further violence, but as I don't do twitter or FB I can't say for sure.

[Paul Riley]

Sales of Baseball bats on Amazon.co.uk up by 5149%.

I am not kidding.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bs_tab

:doh:

I'm getting one,and i'm going to write 'Peacemaker' on it :dead:
Only kidding,but still,the idea is there.Think we could all (those that give a s##t that is!) do with a Peacemaker for home defence?.

[Oberon]

There's a hockey stick lying around here somewhere.

Snag with weapons in untrained hands though is that they can very very easily be taken off you and used against you by a determined attacker...and then you've just given the guy (or girl) something to beat you into a bloody pulp with.

In this case...if I was in London, I'd have spent today getting wooden boards and boarding up my windows and doors. Metal shutters would be preferable, but not cheap, alas. A fire extinguisher wouldn't go amiss either...and if I had anything in the garden I didn't want smashed up then I'd bring it indoors.

Batten down the hatches, stock up with some good food, and watch it all on TV. It's the best thing to do, it's the safest thing to do, and you're not getting in the way of the police doing their work outside. :salute:

[Paul Riley]

There's a hockey stick lying around here somewhere.

Snag with weapons in untrained hands though is that they can very very easily be taken off you and used against you by a determined attacker...and then you've just given the guy (or girl) something to beat you into a bloody pulp with.

In this case...if I was in London, I'd have spent today getting wooden boards and boarding up my windows and doors. Metal shutters would be preferable, but not cheap, alas. A fire extinguisher wouldn't go amiss either...and if I had anything in the garden I didn't want smashed up then I'd bring it indoors.

Batten down the hatches, stock up with some good food, and watch it all on TV. It's the best thing to do, it's the safest thing to do, and you're not getting in the way of the police doing their work outside. :salute:

IF and I mean IF it flares up here in Sheffield i'm taking me,my mother and my brother in the car and 'digging in' in the nearby hills.
Food,blankets,a good baseball bat,air rifle,erm,couple of decent books,and some sleeping pills may be a good thing to stock up on.

Also,using Spartan tactics could help here,I mean,become an immovable object in your doorway wildly swinging your bat around like a viking berserker,that way only one can attack you at one time (unless others are throwing missiles at you from a distance),like the spartans at Thermopylae against the Persians,they held an area between two mountains (valley?) forcing the Persians into an attack on an equal frontage with the Spartans,even though the Persians massively outnumbered the Spartan defenders. :arrgh!:

Lastly,whats it like where you are?

[Hottentot]

Snag with weapons in untrained hands though is that they can very very easily be taken off you and used against you by a determined attacker...and then you've just given the guy (or girl) something to beat you into a bloody pulp with.

Amen. It for some reasons seem to be the tough guys with knives who get stabbed most often.

[Cohaagen]

It's interesting reading the posts from Betonov, etc.

The Eastern European media have been pretty open in their efforts to report these as "race riots" and then croon about the failure of "multiculturalism. The E. European states that are now part of the EU have been bricking it at the possibility of having to take in asylum seekers of the "tinted persuasion" and are shamelessly using the events in London as scare-mongering. As for the Russians, so many of them are inveterate, unredeemed racists and hyper-nationalists that this is just standard fare for them.

So, here's the script for anyone in those countries who might have been "misinformed" by their domestic media. These are no race riots. In any way or shape. It's just brain-damaged, mindless thieving and vandalism that is highly contagious amongst undisciplined adolescents and young adults because the breed likes free stuff and smashing things. Why do you think they robbed so many Carphone Warehouses? To spread the message of Dr King? Yeah right. You're pulling my plonker. The criminal gangs you can see on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, the TV, everywhere, are almost always of mixed racial makeup. There are blacks, whites, mixed-ethnicity, etc. in those crowds. The only thing they have in common is a desire to steal, destroy, and cover their faces.

Moreover, it's appalling to see the same kind of scare tactics from the usual suspects in the US right creeping in on the boundaries. You expect this kind of **** from Russian sources, not from people who should - despite constant efforts to the contrary - know better.

[MH]

I'm getting one,and i'm going to write 'Peacemaker' on it :dead:
Only kidding,but still,the idea is there.Think we could all (those that give a s##t that is!) do with a Peacemaker for home defence?.

What is that....British intifada?
Ahmadinejad will deploy peacemaker forces soon:D

[nikimcbee]

They're talking about this on the radio (in the US). So now I gotta read through all this.

[razark]

There're talking about this on the radio (in the US). So now I gotta read through all this.
You can skip a lot of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Anyway, back on topic. I just watched a few videos showing looting and persons being robbed. Sad sight really. Reminds me of LA. For some reason there is a mob mentality generated. Usually spurned by, of all things, a sporting event.

I think we will see this type of rioting more and more. Here in the states the mob will enter stores and steal. It is normally young kids doing it from the videos I have seen. With an economy as it is lawlessness is more prevalent.

[nikimcbee]

You can skip a lot of it.

:haha: I noticed.

[Betonov]

Anyone notice the hydraulic crane arm/piston in the top left hand corner? Without further evidence to the contrary, I'd wager that those burnt out vehicles are on the back of a transporter.

Did I spoil the magic? sorry... :O:

Damn, I noticed that after posting the picture, wanted to explain it now to make myself look smart :O: You beat me to it

[jumpy]

^^

:arrgh!:




What did they "take away" from the people? And who are the they you are referring to?


I'm assuming you mean the govt, what did they take away from the people?

I'd guess in part social funding cutbacks, jobs (though not directly attributable to government). There's been a lot of local amenities closed down near me - libraries and community centres, not to mention all (and I mean all) of the non privately run training and vocational opportunities at job-centres on a national level.
There are places like Learn Direct and Intraining, but they have an agenda all of their own - in order to secure training with them, you end up doing something totally unrelated to what you need experience in in order that their subsidy from the government last long enough before you complete your training course so that LD makes a profit. There are many many companies and private businesses who make a lot of money in this way, by exploiting the unemployed for government cash, more often than not they are sanctioned by the job-centre itself who know that they are just doing it for the money and are not interested in the candidates on their placement schemes. :o

Add to that the recent changes to disability benefit (now called 'employment support allowance') honestly some of what I hear about that is awful... try imagining making a terminally ill cancer sufferer work for his benefit, just because he can 'sit in a chair without discomfort' for 40 minutes, or making someone with osteo-porosis apply for a manual working job in warehousing.
These are not anecdotal incidents. I know the people involved, and the way the system is being run is absolutely shocking. The government agenda for 'reform of the benefits agency' is simply a blind to save money across the board because of the deficit.

Unfortunately this recession and its impact on ordinary people is much more insidious than a few banks loosing money - business refuses to grow, jobs are not created and those who fall through the employment market gaps are persecuted as scroungers because they cannot secure jobs that actually pay enough to live on in an economy that refuses to grow. By all accounts it is a vicious circle.

It's a god-awful mess imo. Not that freebooting and random thuggery really reflect these aspects of our damaged economy and social communities, they are more indicators of how bad things are in some places that the yobbos who had no respect for anyone to start with think they can openly do what they try and hide the rest of the time.

I said once that you cannot borrow your way out of a recession, but there's a good argument against cutting government spending too far during a recovery from a recession - it's liable to stall the recovery, leaving it stagnating. This is exactly what I think has now happened to the UK economy. As I said, it's a bloody mess; Likely as not to get worse.

[jumpy]

Lastly,whats it like where you are?


Sunny, with a little high cloud. Pretty nice for august.

[Lord Justice]

I think you're putting way too much weight into what you think is your "standing" here, trying to be the p. cool guy while in reality you're just making a fool out of yourself with your racist bigotry and your inability to comprehend what others are trying to tell you, punctuation be damned.

You've already proven that you're not a learning animal by sticking to your "blatant punctuation errors". Errors are errors,



Sir your conduct here leaves me no option to get involved. :doh: Whilst Paul postings may be slight, and his composure less than apt when on the ropes, does that mean he should suffer? Insisting he provide you better? You find fault which indeed are far removed from elegance, and in some respect not of proper conduct. Whilst you pin him, you are unloading low blows. :nope: Will you not be so good or kind as to avoid and excuse the menial inaccuracies of others ? Must you really bear sheets of comment to injure, and provoke more ? I find you sir of sound mind, but of bad performance. :doh:

[Egan]

And then add in stuff like the ending of the EMA (Educational Maintenance Allowance) which allowed young people from disenfranchised backgrounds a slight financial aid to staying in education, the HUGE and sudden rise in tuition fees for higher education, the growing resentment to the blind eye this government has given to tax evasion by corporations and rich individuals and the continuing and simmering anger over the leniency shown to the banks, the recent disgust with the way MP's were creaming money from the public purse...

People are angry about a lot of different things just now. It's not just young, black kids.

[AVGWarhawk]

Unfortunately this recession and its impact on ordinary people is much more insidious than a few banks loosing money - business refuses to grow, jobs are not created and those who fall through the employment market gaps are persecuted as scroungers because they cannot secure jobs that actually pay enough to live on in an economy that refuses to grow. By all accounts it is a vicious circle.

It's a god-awful mess imo. Not that freebooting and random thuggery really reflect these aspects of our damaged economy and social communities, they are more indicators of how bad things are in some places that the yobbos who had no respect for anyone to start with think they can openly do what they try and hide the rest of the time.

I said once that you cannot borrow your way out of a recession, but there's a good argument against cutting government spending too far during a recovery from a recession - it's liable to stall the recovery, leaving it stagnating. This is exactly what I think has now happened to the UK economy. As I said, it's a bloody mess; Likely as not to get worse.

I could not have said it better. As I posted, riots like this will be more prevalent in the near future.

[Paul Riley]

Sir your conduct here leaves me no option to get involved. :doh: Whilst Paul postings may be slight, and his composure less than apt when on the ropes, does that mean he should suffer? Insisting he provide you better? You find fault which indeed are far removed from elegance, and in some respect not of proper conduct. Whilst you pin him, you are unloading low blows. :nope: Will you not be so good or kind as to avoid and excuse the menial inaccuracies of others ? Must you really bear sheets of comment to injure, and provoke more ? I find you sir of sound mind, but of bad performance. :doh:

Thanks mate for the support.

Thats all they are fit for low blows,just like all dirty cowardly fighters,they continue to hit a man when he 'appears' floored.Dont worry about me,I can handle them :03:
There have been some vile comments made in this thread actually,absolutely outrageous.

Thanks again.

[Hottentot]

Thats all they are fit for low blows,just like all dirty cowardly fighters,they hit a man when he 'appears' floored.Dont worry about me,I can handle them :03:

Like you "handled" me asking you to stand by your insults two different times and finally putting me on your ignore list (which I won't believe for a second) because you couldn't.

Gah, I promised to stay away from this thread!

[Paul Riley]

What is that....British intifada?
Ahmadinejad will deploy peacemaker forces soon:D

Do people really have a choice :nope:

[Lord Justice]

Thanks mate for the support.

It is not support. It is a call for further restraint, and to remind that some should blush at there own degeneracy of manners. It is not my lot to witness such rude utterance. I wish you all a good day. :cool:

[Paul Riley]

It is not support. It is a call for further restraint, and to remind that some should blush at there own degeneracy of manners. It is not my lot to witness such rude utterance. I wish you all a good day. :cool:

Ok.

Well,thanks for the call for restraint then.

[Egan]

RIM got hacked by the sounds of it. Seems the hackers told them that if they hand over Blackberry messaging details to the police, they'll be handing over details and addresses of RIM employees to the rioters. Nice. There is no situation bad enough that LolzSec styled wanks can't make worse.

Maybe there's something in the air but I've been humming 'White Riot' by the Clash to myself all day.

Up here in sunny Glasgow there is absolutely no sign of any rioting whatsoever. I'm feeling kind of left out. Mind you, We'll see what happens when the Buckfast supply runs out! :rotfl2:

Radio says stuff going on in Salford as well.

[Paul Riley]

RIM got hacked by the sounds of it. Seems the hackers told them that if they hand over Blackberry messaging details to the police, they'll be handing over details and addresses of RIM employees to the rioters. Nice. There is no situation bad enough that LolzSec styled wanks can't make worse.

Maybe there's something in the air but I've been humming 'White Riot' by the Clash to myself all day.

Up here in sunny Glasgow there is absolutely no sign of any rioting whatsoever. I'm feeling kind of left out. Mind you, We'll see what happens when the Buckfast supply runs out! :rotfl2:

Radio says stuff going on in Salford as well.

Didnt you get the report about the kid on the internet that was arrested in Glasgow for trying to incite riots?.The report was on Sky News,who according to one or two in here can't be trusted,but personally if it IS true I would start donning your kilts and sharpening a few vintage claymores and preparing for the worst pal :arrgh!:
How is your whiskey supplies holding up?,I hear a tipple or two while laying in a trench is great for the spirit! hehehe

Really,its terrible though isnt it.

[Egan]

Didnt you get the report about the kid on the internet that was arrested in Glasgow for trying to incite riots?.The report was on Sky News,who according to one or two in here can't be trusted,but personally if it IS true I would start donning your kilts and sharpening a few claymores and preparing for the worst pal :arrgh!:
God its terrible isnt it.

Yes, one 16 year old says something stupid on teh interwebz. It's the end of the world or something.

There are two people sitting in their garden across the lane from me reading books. society is falling apart.

[Lord Justice]

Ok.

Well,thanks for the call for restraint then.If it be adhered, and if half are of good conduct (which should I call it?) I should absolutely fancy myself talking with some. :salute:

[Paul Riley]

Yes, one 16 year old says something stupid on teh interwebz. It's the end of the world or something.

There are two people sitting in their garden across the lane from me reading books. society is falling apart.

2012 by chance? in which case the end is almost upon us.Well,may as well go out with a bang eh?,either way we are going to get the big rock YU55 in November or the massive solar storms predicted late 2012-early 2013 are going to 'cut us all off' even further.
I really hope though tonight nothing happens like last night.There is a very deep sense of foreboding about all this to be honest,i've even lost my appetite at the moment,together with all the insulting going on in here earlier.Very distressing :nope:

[Paul Riley]

If it be adhered, and if half are of good conduct (which should I call it?) I should absolutely fancy myself talking with some. :salute:

I dont quite follow you there,sorry mate.Could you re-iterate please?
You mean,if it quietens down in here and we resort to more HUMAN qualities you would like to talk with some of us?,well,you can talk to me about anything,but not so sure if I can do the same.Best to put a restraining collar on myself hehehe.
Never mind,I shouldnt beat myself up about anything,its a trying time for all of us,and nerves are being shattered.

[Paul Riley]

I think we ought to keep a current fix on things as they develop.
Here is a recent article from the Telegraph,which most but not all of you may be aware of:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8691406/London-and-UK-riots-August-9-morning-as-it-happened.html

Good to see the black bobby in the background guarding number 10,will certainly help with race relations during this testing time.

[Paul Riley]

Oh no,reports coming in from Manchaster now with some confrontations with police in the city centre.Thats only over the pennines! dear god I hope the police stop this soon :nope:
We really need to have our soldiers helping the police and protecting people here,there just seems to be no stopping them!

[papa_smurf]

Heres another looter that got away with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILrWeO5QYs

[Paul Riley]

Heres another looter that got away with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILrWeO5QYs

I dont know if to laugh or cry.Really,that was comical but I have lost all sense of humour tonight,I havent hardly even eaten any food all day :cry:

[jumpy]

Look, I know you're agitated about this and I'm not trying to piss on your parade by making a direct attack on you as a person, but you seriously need to relax a little - the world is not coming to an end and the hordes are not about to bust your door in and pillage your family and rape your stuff.

Go eat something and find something else to focus on until tomorrow, eh?

Try this to add a little humour to events, and maybe a little perspective too
http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

@ papa_smurf - are you on ocuk, by any chance... that was on there earlier

[Egan]

Oh no,reports coming in from Manchaster now with some confrontations with police in the city centre.Thats only over the pennines! dear god I hope the police stop this soon :nope:
We really need to have our soldiers helping the police and protecting people here,there just seems to be no stopping them!

Dude, you really need to lay off the coffee, your beginning to sound like the Daily Mail and nobody wants that. :hmmm:

Go and eat something and watch the Simpsons. Anything but the news. You're beginning to seem a bit manic. Just go and chill for an hour or so and them come back if you feel the need too. This isn't good for you. If we don't hear from you by 9pm we'll just assume you've been looted by feral youths or something.

[gimpy117]

A bit on-topic

The general feel in my country in regards to the riots is a condemnation of the violence and vandalism, but a un-nearving feeling that the same might erupt here as well soon. The goverment is bumbling down the recesion by raising prices on everything, the elite is stealing anything they can touch despite everyone knowing it and the young feel that the future is not something to look forward to.

that's what I was saying. I feel the same way. No offense to you older guys, But I feel you were handed the keys to the family mansion, and you threw a huge party and made a whole bunch of money selling cups...and after your wild time was over...you left us to clean up the mess you made. For the first time, were projected to have a lower standard of living than our parents. That really scares me, especially since my family has never been really well of, which give me visions of a cardboard box under a bridge. All this time, when the middle class is shrinking, everyone else's future is looking bleak, we are all being asked to pay more taxes and make "sacrifices" because the economy is down, the rich are getting oodles richer and getting to keep their tax breaks. Coming from the mind of a 20 year old, this seems really dismal, It conjures up visions of the serfs working in the medieval fields for their lord who "is their for protection" but only sits in his castle 99% of the time.

[Paul Riley]

Manchester is not that far from me.I wonder how the Londoners tonight feel that lost their homes?,I bet they said it would "never happen".
I hope you guys are right because i'm ready for bugging out if reports start coming in from the Steel City.
Also,Wolverhampton appears to be having problems,anyone live near there tonight?

[Paul Riley]

Look, I know you're agitated about this and I'm not trying to piss on your parade by making a direct attack on you as a person, but you seriously need to relax a little - the world is not coming to an end and the hordes are not about to bust your door in and pillage your family and rape your stuff.

Go eat something and find something else to focus on until tomorrow, eh?

Try this to add a little humour to events, and maybe a little perspective too
http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

@ papa_smurf - are you on ocuk, by any chance... that was on there earlier

How can you be so sure though that some of the above wont happen?,the scenes on TV are certainly not doing much to strengthen that point.I mean,are any of you concerned at all?

[Betonov]

Gimpy117

Just like you said. Especially for former Yugoslav republics. My parents had it good under communism. Houses were built cheap and of the record (no tax), everyone had a job that had decent wage (even when production lagged behind, the goverment supported failed busineses to keep employement, wasting money on projects that would never yield profit), everyone stole and bamboozled everything not guarded by the army (that was stolen by the army) and now it falls on us to settle the bills :damn:

[Sailor Steve]

WOW! :o Eight pages since I went to bed last night!

Okay, I think it's time to explain some things.

1) Arguing with people won't get you banned, or even brigged, no matter how heated the debate gets. To get brigged you need to actually attack people directly, or call them names. Even then, you'll be warned first, unless the attack is extreme. So, Paul, you can stop saying you won't say something that might get you in trouble, which you've done several times in this thread. Just say what you think.

2) You won't get banned or brigged for racist comments, unless they are extreme, as you should have already discovered.

3) You say people are ganging up on you. The problem is that everyone is free to say what they think. If most of the people disagree and think you are wrong, and they say so, it's a bunch of individuals expressing their opinions. There is no organized, or disorganized, group here. I don't like Tribesman's tactics normally, and I've said so many times, but in this case I agree with his summation if not his methods. Does that mean we've formed a gang? No. But just because I agree with what he says should I not say so myself.

4) The Ignore Function. It only works if you actually use it. Threatening to do so and then continuing to argue with that person only brings you in for more derision.

5) 1984. It was about a repressive government, not a bunch of people expressing opinions. If anything, it sounds more like what you desire than what's going on here.

6) Racism. Be honest. Do you really, truly believe that this is happening because people of one color or another are bad? As I've said, I've lived long enough to have known good people and bad people of every description you can imagine. Most of 'them' are people just like you. Do you really think that if you could get rid of 'them' your problems would go away? People are individuals. Some of them are worth knowing, and some of them are worth avoiding, and some of them are not worth much of anything. Unfortunately it's part of human nature to be easily influenced, and when individuals get together in large groups they tend to forget to think, and become a mob, which is a dangerous thing. But it also has nothing to do with religion, color or race. We all do it.

6) Language. You are free to express any opinion you like. That said, when you blame this on groups of one color or another, and someone disagrees, calling them "anti-white" is not only completely mistaken, but it's also an attack. While it may not get you brigged or even warned, you really can't complain if it gets you mocked. Just because one of my closest friends is black and one of my bandmates is brown doesn't mean I don't have white friends as well, nor do I prefer one over the other. I also don't hate myself because I'm white. To quote a famous white man, "I am what I am, and that's all what I am!" I do sometimes dislike myself, but that is for completely different reasons, and they are based on individual traits, not group characteristics.

When I told Snestorm "If you want to see the real enemy, look in the mirror", I was only partly suggesting that his attitudes and beliefs are the cause of the problem. The other part is again individual, and refers to him, you, Tribesman, and everyone else, including myself. As Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Or, as Thomas Carlyle put it, ""Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world."

[ABBAFAN]

It's kicking off in Liverpool and Manchester now. They are looting Boots and Asda about a mile from me.

[Paul Riley]

WOW! :o Eight pages since I went to bed last night!

Okay, I think it's time to explain some things.

1) Arguing with people won't get you banned, or even brigged, no matter how heated the debate gets. To get brigged you need to actually attack people directly, or call them names. Even then, you'll be warned first, unless the attack is extreme. So, Paul, you can stop saying you won't say something that might get you in trouble, which you've done several times in this thread. Just say what you think.

2) You won't get banned or brigged for racist comments, unless they are extreme, as you should have already discovered.

3) You say people are ganging up on you. The problem is that everyone is free to say what they think. If most of the people disagree and think you are wrong, and they say so, it's a bunch of individuals expressing their opinions. There is no organized, or disorganized, group here. I don't like Tribesman's tactics normally, and I've said so many times, but in this case I agree with his summation if not his methods. Does that mean we've formed a gang? No. But just because I agree with what he says should I not say so myself.

4) The Ignore Function. It only works if you actually use it. Threatening to do so and then continuing to argue with that person only brings you in for more derision.

5) 1984. It was about a repressive government, not a bunch of people expressing opinions. If anything, it sounds more like what you desire than what's going on here.

6) Racism. Be honest. Do you really, truly believe that this is happening because people of one color or another are bad? As I've said, I've lived long enough to have known good people and bad people of every description you can imagine. Most of 'them' are people just like you. Do you really think that if you could get rid of 'them' your problems would go away? People are individuals. Some of them are worth knowing, and some of them are worth avoiding, and some of them are not worth much of anything. Unfortunately it's part of human nature to be easily influenced, and when individuals get together in large groups they tend to forget to think, and become a mob, which is a dangerous thing. But it also has nothing to do with religion, color or race. We all do it.

6) Language. You are free to express any opinion you like. That said, when you blame this on groups of one color or another, and someone disagrees, calling them "anti-white" is not only completely mistaken, but it's also an attack. While it may not get you brigged or even warned, you really can't complain if it gets you mocked. Just because one of my closest friends is black and one of my bandmates is brown doesn't mean I don't have white friends as well, nor do I prefer one over the other. I also don't hate myself because I'm white. To quote a famous white man, "I am what I am, and that's all what I am!" I do sometimes dislike myself, but that is for completely different reasons, and they are based on individual traits, not group characteristics.

When I told Snestorm "If you want to see the real enemy, look in the mirror", I was only partly suggesting that his attitudes and beliefs are the cause of the problem. The other part is again individual, and refers to him, you, Tribesman, and everyone else, including myself. As Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Or, as Thomas Carlyle put it, ""Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world."

I have to say Steve that was brilliantly executed.I have no effective response to that.
Now THAT is how you correct people's mistakes in a friendly and intelligent manner,and not how some of us have been conducting ourselves in here recently.Do I detect change in the air already?

I must therefore :salute: you.

[BossMark]

Nice post and very well said Steve :yep:

[Paul Riley]

Nice post and very well said Steve :yep:

Yep,that was a death move and half!.Steve should be included as a character in all future beat em up video games,like Mortal Kombat.

FINISH HIM! :arrgh!:

[gimpy117]

hunker down and stay safe. It's madness, and there isn't an excuse for it...but Britain has to take a step back and wonder what they did to make their young so angry.

[BossMark]

Stay indoors and watch Leeds United v Bradford City :D

[Paul Riley]

I have always liked that Ghandi quote (which Steve included) about change in the world,and he had brown skin,surely I cant be THAT racist can I? I actually admire the little fellow for his guts and standing up for himself in the face of overwhelming hostility.
So,from Ghandi's lesson,in order for these criminals to change that are causing all this mess in Britain we need to see a mass if not TOTAL transformation in the consciousness of youths today,and how the hell do we go about achieving that? when they are so indoctrinated with feeling 'left out' by the government,and listening to some rap music doesnt help them either,not to mention the drugs and alcohol they are pumping into their bodies from a young age.
I think building more (not knocking them down!) youth centres (like I had as a kid) where they can blow all this excess steam off could help,initially at least.However this probably needs to be done from a VERY young age to get them on the right track,some of these older ones today are lost in oblivion.
It truly is the 'system' to blame,and we are all paying for that right now.

[max-peck]

Thats only over the pennines! dear god I hope the police stop this soon :nope:




Look, I know you're agitated about this and I'm not trying to piss on your parade by making a direct attack on you as a person, but you seriously need to relax a little - the world is not coming to an end and the hordes are not about to bust your door in and pillage your family and rape your stuff.

Seconded.

I live about one mile from Woolwich, a fair part of which got wrecked and burnt last night whilst I was watching it on the TV.
All very exciting.
But I am managing to keep a level head about it.

That's not to say I don't want all this scheisse stopped.

But please, stop panicking.
It's probably not helping your state of mind.

I don't mean this as a dig Paul.
It's a genuine piece of friendly advice. :03:

[Winston]

Good luck tonight, to you and you neighbours. It's quite horrifying.

[Sailor Steve]

A real man would have put his newly learned skill to use, like: "Well, thank you very much Sir for pointing that out to me, and now go ******* yourself!" ;)
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

HeartC, you always manage to bring humor into a situation in the best possible way. It's like Cyrano teaching his opponents how to 'properly' insult his nose.

You don't drop in nearly often enough. :rock:

[Egan]

Stay indoors and watch Leeds United v Bradford City :D

Ooh, is it on the radio? I might have to listen to that.

[Oberon]

Batten down the hatches mate, stay safe.

[August]

hunker down and stay safe. It's madness, and there isn't an excuse for it...but Britain has to take a step back and wonder what they did to make their young so angry.

They did nothing if "it's madness and there isn't an excuse for it". Either there is or there isn't. It can't be both.

[jumpy]

How can you be so sure though that some of the above wont happen?,the scenes on TV are certainly not doing much to strengthen that point.I mean,are any of you concerned at all?

nope.

Most people are inherently decent; communities at large do not want this kind of thing and will not support it.

To say that the only thing that causes people to live together in peace and relative harmony is the rule of law or the apparatus of state security is nonsense.
Fact of the matter is the government do not have enough security forces to contain 60 odd million people should they decide to kick off. A few bozos taking advantage of the situation while they can is nothing to get worried about.

That leaves how many million people who are not out rioting and pillaging each others stuff?

c'mon fella, have a little perspective.



I live in the middle of a city, and I know my neighbours and they know me. There's community right there.

[Paul Riley]

Seconded.

I live about one mile from Woolwich, a fair part of which got wrecked and burnt last night whilst I was watching it on the TV.
All very exciting.
But I am managing to keep a level head about it.

That's not to say I don't want all this scheisse stopped.

But please, stop panicking.
It's probably not helping your state of mind.

I don't mean this as a dig Paul.
It's a genuine piece of friendly advice. :03:

Thanks,it SORT of helps a bit.Once we get tonight out of the way and the police hopefully nip it in the bud I may rest a bit easier,in fact we all will.

Best of luck down there :yep:

[max-peck]

Best of luck down there :yep:

Thanks mate :DL

[gimpy117]

They did nothing if "it's madness and there isn't an excuse for it". Either there is or there isn't. It can't be both.

not really. This outlet for dealing with the problem is not excusable. If they were protesting or marching on the capitol I would applaud.

just because they are dealing with the problem via "madness" does not mean something didn't set them off.

[Winston]

I was just thinking, is there anything outside the frount of the house that a mob might take or burn? It might be an idea to move things like bins and flowerpots etc, but just stay in doors if you hear or see any trubble.

[Oberon]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bsms_nav

:doh:

[Oberon]

I was just thinking, is there anything outside the frount of the house that a mob might take or burn? It might be an idea to move things like bins and flowerpots etc, but just stay in doors if you hear or see any trubble.

Seconded.

Meanwhile at a Subway store in Manchester:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/368733394.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1312917480&Signature=a4VccSxFewCaDN1%2FpztgVdD%2BH7w%3D

[Betonov]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bsms_nav

:doh:

Why are they called movers and shakers :DL

[max-peck]

Thanks Oberon, that gave me a bloody good laugh :haha:

[BossMark]

London needs these two :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMVWAVrVAw

[Paul Riley]

Thanks mate :DL

A pleasure.

[Paul Riley]

London needs these two :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMVWAVrVAw

Oh man I remember that one.Bloody hilarious :har:

[Sailor Steve]

^^^ Good questions, and ones for which I have no answers at all.

[Growler]

Why are they called movers and shakers :DL

What this? An upturn of vibrator sales?

[August]

not really. This outlet for dealing with the problem is not excusable. If they were protesting or marching on the capitol I would applaud.

just because they are dealing with the problem via "madness" does not mean something didn't set them off.

These punks aren't protesting anything Gimpy. It's all about thuggery and greed.

[Jimbuna]

These punks aren't protesting anything Gimpy. It's all about thuggery and greed.

Agreed....and opportunist thieving and law breaking :yep:

[Betonov]

Well, at least when we go rioting, the parliament is hit, not small shops and busineses

http://cdn1.siol.net/sn/img/10/139/634098930026840541_parlament1.jpg

[Growler]

Agreed....and opportunist thieving and law breaking :yep:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_I2i8xqihwqQ/TAMUUn_GFhI/AAAAAAAAAQo/S_mlrjQcPRw/s1600/JohnBender.0.0.0x0.600x330.jpeg

You forgot, "Ugly, lazy, disrespectful..."

[BossMark]

These punks aren't protesting anything Gimpy. It's all about thuggery and greed.
You talking about the government or the rioters? :D

[gimpy117]

These punks aren't protesting anything Gimpy. It's all about thuggery and greed.

but why would the be soo pissed off? there's a reason behind this.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The only reason is they think they can get away with it!


Back to the origins: the dead guy didn't fire at police.

But he's still a 'family man with no ties to gangs' armed with a loaded pistol, so the outcome should still have been the same.


Fingers crossed for you ABBAFAN, even if you're a fan of ABBA (with a backwards B somewhere!). :D

[flatsixes]

but why would the be soo pissed off? there's a reason behind this.

Not enough free stuff?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Steve is the SUBSIM daddy :yep:

[MH]

I have always liked that Ghandi quote (which Steve included) about change in the world,and he had brown skin,surely I cant be THAT racist can I? I actually admire the little fellow for his guts and standing up for himself in the face of overwhelming hostility.
So,from Ghandi's lesson,in order for these criminals to change that are causing all this mess in Britain we need to see a mass if not TOTAL transformation in the consciousness of youths today,and how the hell do we go about achieving that? when they are so indoctrinated with feeling 'left out' by the government,and listening to some rap music doesnt help them either,not to mention the drugs and alcohol they are pumping into their bodies from a young age.
I think building more (not knocking them down!) youth centres (like I had as a kid) where they can blow all this excess steam off could help,initially at least.However this probably needs to be done from a VERY young age to get them on the right track,some of these older ones today are lost in oblivion.
It truly is the 'system' to blame,and we are all paying for that right now.
Maybe the 'blame the system' attitude is the problem to begin with.
People want nowadays everything handed to them on silver platter.
If not done, its the system to blame so **** the system lets riot.
Im not saying that its all well in western world but we got spoiled and its hard to take a step back.
People want everything at once and blame the system when thrown out of their homes.
People vote for politicians who are ready to give away everything on silver platter for a chair in parliament,then whine few years later about deficit and depression.
Now you have politician who tights the budget and well... it a riot.
OK its system to blame as representative of its people.
Just like spoiled 6 year old kids that go nuts in a shopping mall when mom doesn't buy the toy...

well....somthing like that....lol

[Jimbuna]

You forgot, "Ugly, lazy, disrespectful..."

No, not at all....simply citizens intent on breaking the law of their country.

[razark]

Steve is the SUBSIM daddy :yep:
Even when you disagree with him, he's worth listening to.

[ABBAFAN]

I was just thinking, is there anything outside the frount of the house that a mob might take or burn? It might be an idea to move things like bins and flowerpots etc, but just stay in doors if you hear or see any trubble.

I don't mind them taking the rubbish. The council never do haha.

[Paul Riley]

Maybe the 'blame the system' attitude is the problem to begin with.
People want nowadays everything handed to them on silver platter.
If not done, its the system to blame so **** the system lets riot.
Im not saying that its all well in western world but we got spoiled and its hard to take a step back.
People want everything at once and blame the system when thrown out of their homes.
People vote for politicians who are ready to give away everything on silver platter for a chair in parliament,then whine few years later about deficit and depression.
Now you have politician who tights the budget and well... it a riot.
OK its system to blame as representative of its people.
Just like spoiled 6 year old kids that go nuts in a shopping mall when mom doesn't buy the toy...

well....somthing like that....lol

You're right what you say :yep:

[ABBAFAN]

My friend in everton can see a burning car and there is smashing of cars going on where I used to live. Liverpool's new massive shopping complex is under attack.

[Paul Riley]

Even when you disagree with him, he's worth listening to.

Well he poleaxed me with his post with the Ghandi quote,I had to agree with everything he highlighted.

[Paul Riley]

Steve is the SUBSIM daddy :yep:

Come ere!,who's yer daddy! :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

Madness! Stay safe!

[frau kaleun]

Steve is the SUBSIM grand-daddy :yep:

Fixed.

:shifty:




*runs*

[Penguin]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/ref=zg_bsms_nav

:doh:

4-6 weeks delivery time for a baseball bat?
No wonder the people loot sport shops.... :DL

hey and hammock sales also had an 800% rise - one gotta relax after rioting...

A question: is the first item - the telescope tonfa really legal in Britain? Can't clcik the link to check out the describtion, but I thought telescope batons were forbidden.

Well, at least when we go rioting, the parliament is hit, not small shops and busineses


:o are the holes from slingshot projectiles?

[ABBAFAN]

I've got my longbow here ...

[Betonov]

:o are the holes from slingshot projectiles?

Granite pavement cubes. I have no idea how they were thrown that far :o

Which were not the only things thrown :DL
http://www.erevija.com/files/pictures/23858/2385884.jpg

[Betonov]

He's more like a consigliere of the forum, and Jim is the godfather

[Jimbuna]

He's more like a consigliere of the forum, and Jim is the godfather

Oh I wouldn't go that far...but I do wonder when people PM you asking for advice then agree with your response and then ignore it :hmmm:

[frau kaleun]

Oh I wouldn't go that far...but I do wonder when people PM you asking for advice then agree with your response and then ignore it :hmmm:

You shoulda made 'em an offer they couldn't refuse.

[Jimbuna]

A toadstool perhaps?

[Jimbuna]

You shoulda made 'em an offer they couldn't refuse.

That may yet turn out to be the case :hmmm:

[Penguin]

Granite pavement cubes. I have no idea how they were thrown that far :o

I meant the holes in the upper windows, cubes don't make those round impressions, could be from pebbles in a sling :hmmm:

Which were not the only things thrown :DL


I really have something on my eyes tonight - had some hard work to do...
Could be a dildo or a bong? :DL

[Sailor Steve]

He's more like a consigliere of the forum, and Jim is the godfather
No, Neal is the godfather. Jim is the enforcer.

Fixed.

:shifty:




*runs*
:rotfl2:

Just be grateful there's someone here old enough to call you "little girl"...









MOM! :O:

[Betonov]

I meant the holes in the upper windows, cubes don't make those round impressions, could be from pebbles in a sling :hmmm:

Possible they were from slings. There were reports of paintball guns, but it was mostly cubes, cans and bottles. Even golf balls.

I really have something on my eyes tonight - had some hard work to do...
Could be a dildo or a bong? :DL

The first one

[Betonov]

No, Neal is god. We rarely see or hear him, but all our alter ego's can be killed by his godly wrath :O:

[Sailor Steve]

Hey, the godfather has that power, too. :sunny:

[Lord_magerius]

It's all kicked off where I live now :nope:

[Betonov]

Yes, but can he completely shut down all servers and wipe them clean :arrgh!:

[Betonov]

Don't point that thing at me

Nice one though, home made ??

[ABBAFAN]

Cheers. No, I bought it from a bowyer in the Northeast.


I don't really have the knowhow for making things like that myself.

[Winston]

Nice Abbafan, I'd crap my pants if I were a yob. Hope things are still quiet up there.

[Paul Riley]

Latest events:

Tomorrow's newspaper headline (forget which paper it was) 'police given orders to shoot'

200 or so youths confronting police in Manchester,various shops damaged,police appear to be having trouble in getting on top of the situation.

Groups of about 100 local residents patrol their streets in some London districts in an attempt to defend their homes from these scumbags.And good luck to them,about time some folk got tough with this lot now! British vigilantes here we come! Plus they could be a valuable asset to the police as they would be able to make citizens arrests,after smashing their faces in that is.

Sikhs in London (I think it was,could have been Birmingham) band together with other locals of all colours and backgrounds to defend their communities and their temples.Well done Sikhs!,dont take no crap from them! *So much for my apparent bigotry and racist views*

Sorry to sound like a news reporter here ;)

Stay tuned folks...the drama goes on.

[frau kaleun]

No, Neal is the godfather. Jim is the enforcer.


Jim is Luca Brasi? I thought he slept with the fishes!

[Betonov]

Anyone notice the hydraulic crane arm/piston in the top left hand corner? Without further evidence to the contrary, I'd wager that those burnt out vehicles are on the back of a transporter.

Did I spoil the magic? sorry... :O:

jumpy was right
http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/Aug2011/60731471.jpg

[Armistead]

One thing to remember, a government that gives is a government that can take away.

[frau kaleun]

I meant the holes in the upper windows

<snip>

Could be a dildo

I think you may have answered your own question. :O:




:hmmm:




I don't suppose any of you can make out a model# on that thing...

[Winston]

Granite pavement cubes. I have no idea how they were thrown that far :o

Which were not the only things thrown :DL
http://www.erevija.com/files/pictures/23858/2385884.jpg

This has probably been posted before but hay,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAVP1Xd4PsA&feature=related

They used a Battering ram all right. Boom boom, tish.

[Betonov]

I don't suppose any of you can make out a model# on that thing...

What ?? You missing one :DL You shouldn't throw your things into our parliament building, that's an act of war :DL

[Paul Riley]

Latest events:

Tomorrow's newspaper headline (forget which paper it was) 'police given orders to shoot'

200 or so youths confronting police in Manchester,various shops damaged,police appear to be having trouble in getting on top of the situation.

Groups of about 100 local residents patrol their streets in some London districts in an attempt to defend their homes from these scumbags.And good luck to them,about time some folk got tough with this lot now! British vigilantes here we come! Plus they could be a valuable asset to the police as they would be able to make citizens arrests,after smashing their faces in that is.

Sikhs in London (I think it was,could have been Birmingham) band together with other locals of all colours and backgrounds to defend their communities and their temples.Well done Sikhs!,dont take no crap from them! *So much for my apparent bigotry and racist views*

Sorry to sound like a news reporter here ;)

Stay tuned folks...the drama goes on.

Holy sh#t,a Nottingham police station on Canning Street? fire-bombed by a group of 40-50...men did they say?,yes I believe the term for these rats was men :o

[Penguin]

I think you may have answered your own question. :O:

:hmmm:

I don't suppose any of you can make out a model# on that thing...
:haha:

*puts nose close to the screen*
it says: m-o-d-e-l---p-r-o-c-h-n-o-w

This has probably been posted before but hay,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAVP1Xd4PsA&feature=related

They used a Battering ram all right. Boom boom, tish.

:har:
its alive! it's alive!
thanks for sharing, haven't seen this vid

[Sailor Steve]

Jim is Luca Brasi? I thought he slept with the fishes!
Jim's the one who put him there. :sunny:

[Dowly]

Latest events:

Tomorrow's newspaper headline (forget which paper it was) 'police given orders to shoot'



According to Sky News, Met Police is considering issuing officers with baton rounds.

Sky's crime correspondent Martin Brunt said the Met was
considering a change of tactics and that officers may even be issued with
plastic bullets.

Brunt said: "Police have promised to swamp the streets and act tougher if
there's another night of rioting in the capital.

"A change in tactics could include the use of plastic bullets (baton rounds)
to clear looters and vandals.

"Such a weapon has been available to police in the past three nights, but
commanders have resisted using them."

[nikimcbee]

Good thing Geordies don't engage in such behavior! Jim, go put your bobby hat on and open up a can of whoopass!:yeah:

[frau kaleun]

:haha:

*puts nose close to the screen*
it says: m-o-d-e-l---p-r-o-c-h-n-o-w



*faint*

[Paul Riley]

Holy sh#t,a Nottingham police station on Canning Street? fire-bombed by a group of 40-50...men did they say?,yes I believe the term for these rats was men :o

Events in Greater Manchester especially Salford are escalating out of control it seems.Police forces are stretched thin again as huge resources were sent to London anticipating violence there instead.
It is clear now this is not random as previously expected because the rioters are simply moving to where the police are weakest.This HAS to be a planned co-ordinated assault on British cities by a crime syndicate hell bent on mayhem and utter lawlessness.And as most of these disgusting wretches have access to the internet,ipods,mobile phones etc they are able to co-ordinate their hellish crimes even more while on the move.

I feel utterly appalled and utterly concerned.

Hope we make it through the night with no further violence (which I doubt) ,so good night and god bless :nope:

[MH]

Events in Greater Manchester especially Salford are escalating out of control it seems.Police forces are stretched thin again as huge resources were sent to London anticipating violence there instead.
It is clear now this is not random as previously expected because the rioters are simply moving to where the police are weakest.This HAS to be a planned co-ordinated assault on British cities by a crime syndicate hell bent on mayhem and utter lawlessness.And as most of these disgusting wretches have access to the internet,ipods,mobile phones etc they are able to co-ordinate their hellish crimes even more while on the move.

I feel utterly appalled and utterly concerned.

Hope we make it through the night with no further violence (which I doubt) ,so good night and god bless :nope:

Looks like a report of zombie attack :rotfl2:

[Paul Riley]

According to Sky News, Met Police is considering issuing officers with baton rounds.

I dont think its going to do much good to be honest,these thugs have gone totally berserk and should be stopped dead in their tracks.
This is becoming VERY VERY serious now.It wouldnt suprise me,and I know what the responses to this will be,but think about it real hard,that live rounds MAY be considered,what else can the police do?,they certainly cant make it look like they have 'given ground' or been routed.I dread to think what would happen then :o:nope:

[Paul Riley]

Looks like a report of zombie attack :rotfl2:

Bloody mindless zombies alright,give them a shotgun round to the head just like in Resident Evil :dead:

[MH]

Bloody mindless zombies alright,give them a shotgun round to the head just like in Resident Evil :dead:

So tell me are those Muslim minorities or not?
We had an Arab Israeli parliament member admitting that all the mess is done by Muslim "discriminated" British minorities.
It was a show about possibility of same situation happening with Israeli Arabs.
maybe he tries to scare us and be nicer?

[Penguin]

be afraid, be very afraid....

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4102/rageboyzombies.jpg

:D

[jumpy]

There's a bit of helicopter action over head here (nothing out of the ordinary there).... the only violence I've seen tonight is one of my more recent polish neighbours slapping his woman about after she spat in his face - she was making a lot of noise through the window, obviously some sort of argument, after she yelled at him then spat in his face, he open palmed belted her one in the face, then closed the window and blinds :o
Don't think much of a bloke who has to use his fist to control his woman's temper - she's a slender thing as well...
Pretty quiet here otherwise.

[Oberon]

It wouldnt suprise me,and I know what the responses to this will be,but think about it real hard,that live rounds MAY be considered,what else can the police do?,they certainly cant make it look like they have 'given ground' or been routed.I dread to think what would happen then :o:nope:

Live rounds will not be used, not today, not tomorrow, not any time during these riots, no Prime Minister wants to have his legacy to be the first man to authorise the use of live rounds on English soil.

The police will hail the lack of riots in London tonight as a success, but unfortunately that success has come at the price of chaos in other cities. This may mean that tomorrow they will reinforce the other cities with a couple of units from London until they get a balance which means that London and the other cities are well defended.

Either that or it'll start raining, that will stop the riots.

[Penguin]

There's a bit of helicopter action over head here (nothing out of the ordinary there).... the only violence I've seen tonight is one of my more recent polish neighbours slapping his woman about after she spat in his face - she was making a lot of noise through the window, obviously some sort of argument, after she yelled at him then spat in his face, he open palmed belted her one in the face, then closed the window and blinds :o
Don't think much of a bloke who has to use his fist to control his woman's temper - she's a slender thing as well...
Pretty quiet here otherwise.

good to hear that it's quite on your front.
too bad some people don't riot on your arsehole neighbours face...:x

I also wanted give you kudos for your post #72 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1724351&postcount=72
A very well to read description of the social situation in Britain and a great analysis of the motives without a glorification. Well done, Sir! :up:

The only thing which I think is more extreme than I have noticed from previous British riots, is the sheer amount of torched buildings.

[MH]

be afraid, be very afraid....

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4102/rageboyzombies.jpg

:D

Now that's scary face in frenzy zombie mode.:03:

[Tribesman]

wouldnt suprise me,and I know what the responses to this will be,but think about it real hard,that live rounds MAY be considered,what else can the police do?,
What else can the police do? :hmmm:
Policing is what the police can do.:know:
But think about it real hard, or even just think.....that issue has been thoroughly dealt with about twenty or thirty times already by people with views right across the board, yet not a single reasoned arguement has been put forward as to why that route you seem fond of might be remotely considered a good idea.

[frau kaleun]

ATTENTION all you folks "over there" - I know you're probably in bed now, but when you get a chance tomorrow, do pop back in and say "hey" at least once so the rest of us know you're okay. :yep:

[Torplexed]

Found this excerpt from a London eyewitness interesting....

High Street is a broken, twisted, boarded-off mess, eerily quiet. The electronics store Curry's has been utterly taken apart, as has Costa Coffee. Even the Boots chemist has been smashed in. Ironically, the only thing that hasn't been touched seems to be a bookstore, WH Smith's.The sad twilight of the book. The rich don't want them because they have a Kindle. The hooligans don't want them because they don't read.

[Torplexed]

Looks like Manchester is the city getting hit the hardest tonight.

When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth like loads of money?"

But they said it was not just about that, adding that it was in response to the government cuts.Oh yeah. Put a little politically correct rationalization in there.

[nikimcbee]

They talked about this on the radio today. They played the 2 girls, who were drunk, stealing stuff "because they could.":dead:

Those youths remind me of the US version; the anarchist types that you find in Seattle and portland. They will riot on a moment's notice.

So when I got off work, I went to watch the BBC, the show that was on; "How Bush had corrupted America with the war on terror."

Wait for it........:har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har: :har::har::har::har::har:

You've got to be $#@#%' (#@') kidding me. So is the BBC the same as MSNBC? God help us all, if the US gets to this state of nanny-statism.

So are you going to regulate/ban baseball bats now?

[Tribesman]

Wait for it........
So you don't think the long running war on terror is a bigger story than some silly riots thousands of miles away.
So is that the story about the two special prison facilitiess or the story about how the former secratary of defence can be sued for detention practices he instigated against US citizens despite trying to claim that Americans have no rights if they are in a war zone.
Damn BBC America how dare they report on American news in America:rotfl2:

[Sammi79]

Blatant consumerism in the face of poverty, growing divide between rich and poor, cuts in public services and education, political correctness gone mad. These are the root causes of these disturbances. This is not the revolution, this is a bunch of chavs who think they can get away with it. It is sad that they don't even really have comprehension of 'why' they are rioting - they are not educated well enough to understand (for the most part)

people have mentioned plastic bullets etc... if they use these things, children will die. On the other hand these 'children' are putting regular peoples lives in immediate danger. They are really asking for it, and they are in severe need of a lesson about consequence. Still I think that it should be avoided if at all possible. No one wants to see people shot in the streets.

Give the teachers, parents and police back the power to discipline the kids. Sort the bloody education system out, there should be 1 kind of primary school which does not discriminate the kids on religion or race of them or their parents, this voluntary segragation leads directly to group or gang mentality later on. Start properly taxing the banks who've been shamelessly ripping everyone off for decades and who caused the global economy spiral. Bring back higher tax rates for the rich - 'we're all in this together' after all, get yer wallet out then, Dave. Quite honestly this place could do with a revolution, parliamentary law needs to be re-written etc.. hell basic law needs to be re-written to stop protecting the haves as opposed to the have nots, but like I said this is not it, sadly. The real problem is that criminal gangs are using the kids as cover. While the kids create mayhem they can get on with whatever mugging/burglary/murder they like.

[Paul Riley]

So tell me are those Muslim minorities or not?
We had an Arab Israeli parliament member admitting that all the mess is done by Muslim "discriminated" British minorities.
It was a show about possibility of same situation happening with Israeli Arabs.
maybe he tries to scare us and be nicer?

Its looking like all colours and backgrounds are involved in these riots.News reporters last night questioned some of them and asked them why they were doing it,one said "we have no money,we have no jobs,we have no future etc etc".That is NO excuse for this behaviour,there are a lot of us without work but dont go around causing mayhem in our own cities.
But it does appear that the shooting of the black wannabe gangster triggered the events off.

[papa_smurf]

Nearest "riots" to me were the ones in Manchester (about 15 miles away), but they were bought under control at around 1am GMT. Still brings shame not just to Greater Manchester but the whole of the UK.
I'm sure glad the government announced those cuts to police forces - utter stupidity.

[max-peck]

Morning all.

Well, London was fairly quiet last night (relatively speaking), but it looks like it kicked off pretty much everywhere else.
Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Bristol, Leicester, Wolverhampton, Gloucester, maybe a few more that I've missed.


Listen to this kid.

"I'll keep doing this every day until I get caught," one rioter told him. "When I get home nothing is going to happen to me."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9560000/9560646.stm

He starts off trying to justify it as a reaction against government cuts.
Further questioning and he admits that it's actually an opportunity to get free stuff, knowing that there's very little chance of having to face up to any consequences for his actions. :nope:

Like those two stupid girls interviewed in Croydon yesterday, they keep repeating the mantra 'governments fault'.
When asked why they were smashing up their own town to 'attack the government' they then said it was an attack on the rich.
What actually got destroyed was small businesses and ordinary peoples homes.

They either don't understand, or don't care that their actions are ruining peoples lives.

[PhantomLord]

ATTENTION all you folks "over there" - I know you're probably in bed now, but when you get a chance tomorrow, do pop back in and say "hey" at least once so the rest of us know you're okay. :yep:

Thats why i came here (after 4 days) to read all about it from someone who lives "over there". Sad i had to grub through pages of... unrelated things first.

*looking out for they "hey´s" to come* :Kaleun_Binocular:

[Jimbuna]

ATTENTION all you folks "over there" - I know you're probably in bed now, but when you get a chance tomorrow, do pop back in and say "hey" at least once so the rest of us know you're okay. :yep:

Spoke to an ex-colleague/friend this morning and he informed me one of the local Tactical Riot Squads (35 crazies and some of whom I had trained briefly with in the past) have been transferred to Manchester today.

I've wished them well but part of me is worrying more than a little bit.

[Rockstar]

It's against the government? It's governments fault?

Not that I'm anti-government, but how come when protesters hit the streets in the middle east its everyone cheering for freedom and democracy! When it happens in our own backyard they're stupid, unthinking, children who should be shot.

Wonder if we'll see a headline with one of these unknown brave rebel freedom fighters for, democracy, social justice and regime change to start pleading the U.S. to bomb London like Bush did in Iraq. LOL


.

[STEED]

I found the news item on the looting in London was of note, a row of shops looted or burnt but when they came to a bookshop they left that untouched!

Cameron is boring the heck out of me with his speeches..."I will do what ever it takes". Well do it then.

No wonder shop owners took to the streets last night in London to protect there shops, clearly they saw it was down to them too do something.

[Paul Riley]

Sheffield police is on high alert for tonight after reports of minor disturbances in Huddersfield were reported earlier last night,but was quickly brought under control.
Sheffield is a proud city with a proud past and I dearly hope that most Sheffielders are better than this and will NOT tolerate any damage to our city under any circumstances.If trouble DOES flare up I suspect most residents opposed to these creatures plus Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield United football fans may band together and confront them,sending them back to the vile pit they were vomited from!
I went into the city centre earlier about 1 hr ago and a couple of riot vans were parked close to a busy shopping plaza but everything looks quiet.I sincerely hope it stays that way.
To those that think something of their cities remain vigilant and stick together if you can,the Rudeltaktik is not just useful at sea you know ;)

Keep us posted as and when you all hear of any new developments,be it on the news or in your local area.

Gods be with us!

[Paul Riley]

I found the news item on the looting in London was of note, a row of shops looted or burnt but when they came to a bookshop they left that untouched!

Cameron is boring the heck out of me with his speeches..."I will do what ever it takes". Well do it then.

No wonder shop owners took to the streets last night in London to protect there shops, clearly they saw it was down to them too do something.

Cameron needs a punch in the teeth mate,leaving locals to defend their properties.