So I'm planning a new mod... [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

vodkaphile

06-24-11, 11:03 PM

I wouldn't consider it a supermod as of yet. I've very busy in life and will work on it during my spare time.

I still need to get permissions from a lot of people because it will be based on the many mods out there, GWX/NYGM and many of the smaller mods for those as well as some older out-dated mods that have features I like/liked.

I'll be doing this by myself for the time being but later on I may enlist willing mod makers. I want to get a groundwork laid first.

My major goals are simple -

Make the most realistic mod yet to date with all the graphical updates and great new UIs integrated but modified to remove gamey elements.

Also included will be hardcoded changes such as stieblers/h.sie etc but I'm attempting a work around as to not allow 'hacked' versions of the game to work. However seeing as the game is 11 years old...these may be necessary.

I have many books and research materials, I will be basing a lot of changes on these. This mod will focus on REALISM and not gameplay as much.

It will be for folks who desire 'true' realism and not abstract realism imposed by game changes to make it more difficult/easy based on gameplay.

It will include plenty of total re-writes but as I said it will be based heavily of what the community has already done, modified to introduce more realism based on my research.

Since I have figured out how to edit hardcoded values, a lot of work will be done there. Such as having to change vent/pump settings based on depth.

Example; When you are deep 230m for example depending on sub, your pumps cannot keep up and you will slowly take on water and slowly fall deeper as your sub gets heavier due to water accumulation.

My main limitation are graphics, I can code all day but I cannot do graphics.

Anyway this will be a LONG work in progress. I will also attempt to incorporate SHIV/V elements into the game.

Schwieger

06-24-11, 11:33 PM

remove gamey elements.

+1

Got my attention there. Good luck with this mate, nice to see some more serious interest in hardcore realism. :D

Myxale

06-25-11, 01:41 AM

I think it's a good idea. Some kind of Mod-compilation with focus on Realism.

It'll be nice to have a Mod-pack that has the majority of smaller mods in it. Would save lots of time.

Keep us updated!:salute:

vodkaphile

06-25-11, 02:51 AM

Progress so far....

Edited hydrophone contact ranges based on historically accurate data.

Your SO will be able to detect targets out to the maximum range of the given hydrophone you have installed.

The ranges are estimates, eg short instead of being stock 1000m is random up to a distance, same with medium and long. This prevents the player from knowing exact range on first contact if they know the .cfg files.

WO is affected by the same visual impairments of player, eg fog, etc reduces their detection range. Also their range estimates are not precisely accurate, off up to 500m. (Fixes WO night vision)

Adjusted and randomized SO contact speed, slow - medium - fast, previously it was a set speed.

Slowed merchants top speed to historical values, this can only be done via class...so some merchants that could travel slightly faster wont be able to but it is an average... no more merchants @ 35kts.

Slightly sped up aircraft maximum speed against had to average it. Based the data on ASW aircraft. So say, aircraft based fighters with bombs will be slightly slower but they are rarer.

Slowed convoy speeds - they had a max speed of 35kts, I felt that was WAY to fast. Esp when most merchants cant get near that. Including the fact that convoys travelled slower historically to stay together and organized etc...

Randomized convoy speed more from waypoint to way point. Without giving away information it was almost a constant speed for all convoys, especially the early years of the war.

Reduced number of early escorts, increased number of mid-late war escorts and adjusted types slightly.

Added dynamic shadows.

Lowered chance of being attacked at night from the air.

Increased the probability of being attacked by air after being detected (slightly)

Reduced probability of being attacked by air after being detected at night.

Slightly increased the probability of friendly airstrike being called in upon reporting a contact depending on year.

Added the probability of being attacked by enemy air on reporting a contact.

Changed the airstrike logic slightly and increased the time between 'attack runs' from already attacking aircraft.

Added randomized events without use of SH3 Commander, early stages not near fully functioning.

This is what I have so far after a night of working on mostly the .cfg files.

FAR from done with even the .cfg files.

EDIT: These .cfgs alone are going to take ages haha.
=================

25.06.2011:

Heavily modifying Scene.dat to improve weather, randomize it a bit, make storms shorter, storm waves smaller in general, not a lot smaller but I've been in the Atlantic during a hurricane and didn't see waves like I sometimes see in SH3.

Also increased the random wind change frequency and speed variables. Consider it wind gusts. These are very short duration.

Increased rain drops slightly in intensity and made variable size, decreased overall rain intensity very slightly.

Editing lightning flashes, some will appear a fair amount closer now and some more distant, decreased to min time between lightning flashes but increased the maximum possible time between them as well to create a more variable and random looking effect.

Begun work on weather algorithms.

Rickster1

06-25-11, 06:45 AM

Excellent, look forward to this mod

Wolfstriked

06-25-11, 06:59 AM

vodkaphile

06-25-11, 02:05 PM

Great stuff Vodkaphile! I love realism and wait to see what you bring.About the merchant knots.....really 35kts???:nope:

Will you add in a real navigation aspect to SH3:hmmm: I do not want to have to use a sextant or whatever it is that was used to navigate but I find the sub icon on map moving along with the waypoint line to ruin immersion.Any chance to remove the subs icon and once a day you ask the NO to estimate location....with variances as to where you actually wanted to go?

This could be harder than it may seem.

It would also make judging enemy speed/course/aob etc from nav map extremely difficult.

It is a cool idea to be added for an ultra-hardcore optional pack but I suspect it will be extremely hard to implement.

If it is possible you could figure out your location by yourself just by using your speed over x amount of time travelled in @ y heading.

Now using time compression may make this more difficult but it could still be figured out using the methods above.

Actually adding a sextant too would improve the accuracy of your location.

It would definitely add a new challenge to the game, I suspect it would frustrate many people however.

It is also unrealistic in a way because your navigation officer would be keeping track of this data, so you shouldnt not know where you are. :D

Very cool idea, I'd love to try it myself! I will check into being able to change it but there are many variables involved and hardcoded issues that require a new set of changes- eg to sh3.exe which again go into copyright bs...etc.

Wolfstriked

06-25-11, 03:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcB8P5Iu7As

Here is a video from SH5 with real nav.He asks the NO to give location and it puts a dot on the map so you can work from there.

vodkaphile

06-25-11, 08:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcB8P5Iu7As

Here is a video from SH5 with real nav.He asks the NO to give location and it puts a dot on the map so you can work from there.

Coding is different.

I can incorporate it but it requires me to edit sh3.exe.

Fish In The Water

06-25-11, 09:12 PM

It will be for folks who desire 'true' realism and not abstract realism imposed by game changes to make it more difficult/easy based on gameplay.

Caught my eye here...

Haven't given it much thought, so I'm uncertain as to how this could be fully implemented, but the goal seems laudable. Best of luck with the project! :sunny:

vodkaphile

06-26-11, 12:47 AM

Caught my eye here...

Haven't given it much thought, so I'm uncertain as to how this could be fully implemented, but the goal seems laudable. Best of luck with the project! :sunny:

Well I've already decided my mod wont be...super...

It is based on nygm/gwx and the older real uboot mod...as well as some great german mods.

If it contains any gfx extra it'll be hitman's opticz....

im modifying GFX and nygm based on research.

I've avoided as much as possible to edit hardcoded sh3.exe files but isnt possible to what i want to do ,,

The mod will be large howeve due to the fact that i intend to include the best of the community mods thus far as well as some code from SHIV/V that I've managed to work in.

I'm currently trying to combine MAgui with Hitman's. Because Ilike Magui's interface but I feel hitman's optics is more realistic.

Thats about as far as im going on interface/gfx.

The rest will be more subtle...

weather algorithms, dynamic campaign algorithms and editing of hard coded data.

I'd say my biggest achievement so far is the pump/venting system,,,,think aotd...

the deeper you go the higher speed ypu have to run to prevent depth loss///etc

As of current .....if you are running @ 160m you'll have to add more crew to maintenance to maintain that depth - this is abstract, I have figured out how to add crew to position to compensate. For now it is maint.

If you go silent running you will slowly always lose depth due to shutting off your pumps to be more silent.

The deeper you go the more you will slowly 'dive' due to these effects. Unless you speed up and/or change dive plane. Yes I've figured out how to adjust the planes, so instead of setting 15m depth, you can set fore plane 5dgrees and aft a different depending on rate of descent/ascent.

This has to be done from 1O position.

Fore and aft dive planes will not allow counter productivity.

eg fore 10 aft 10

which would = no gain or loss in depth but a general slowing of the sub.

cannot get around this.

Added commands to open/close vents and pumps.\\

Silent runnind shuts off each, depending on depth you will gain or lose depth.

You cannot open vent until 20m and if you do this causes cavitation and will cause you to be detected by 'elite' ai crews,

sitting idle causes you lose depth due to boency + 120m

vodkaphile

06-26-11, 01:07 AM

Added thermal layers and games ability to recognize them.....the latter needs a sound or txt,. not added yet.

added randomization the sh3.exe w/o SH3 commander...bugged.

rewrote the entire weather algorithm (WIP)

The data is based on N,O,H,A archives...

The ultimate goal is RT weather/adjusted;;;

this will use an optional app to determine weather

SquareSteelBar

06-26-11, 02:55 AM

....However seeing as the game is 11 years old...What game are you talking about?

vodkaphile

06-26-11, 03:34 AM

What game are you talking about?
SH3?

Wolfstriked

06-26-11, 08:40 AM

Is it really true that a Uboat sinks when at zero speed.....I am asking about periscope depths mainly?I found this out about uboats and I would think that the DO would make exceptions for maintaining periscope depth and then blow negative tank when diving deeper for the safety reasons,so that they really would sink at slow speeds???

""n diving quickly, the negative tank is important. By flooding this tank the submarine becomes negatively buoyant. This gets the boat under water quicker. Once submerged, though, the negative tank will be blown or pumped out, to restore neutral buoyancy. You want to be heavier than water as you dive, but you don't want to stay that way once you're under. If the negative tank remained full and all power was lost the boat would quickly sink below crush depth and kill everyone aboard. The safety tank, which is normally kept fully flooded while submerged, is designed to hold the same volume of water as the conning tower. If the conning tower floods and has to be abandoned, the safety tank may be blown dry to compensate.""

Another point from same page

""Blow negative: When the depth is 15 feet short of the desired depth, the flooded negative tank is blown to restore neutral buoyancy. This tank is never blown completely dry at sea in order to avoid sending air bubbles to the surface. Once the flood valve is closed, the excess air pressure is vented into the hull.""

Sailor Steve

06-26-11, 11:54 AM

Is it really true that a Uboat sinks when at zero speed.....I am asking about periscope depths mainly?

It is theoretically possible to maintain depth while stationary. The problem is that this requires using the pumps, which is just as noisy if not more so than running the propulsion motors at slow speed. If it's the periscope wake you're worried about, at 2 knots the wake should be minimal, and they're just as likely to spot the 'scope itself as the 'feather'.

Sailor Steve

06-26-11, 11:58 AM

SH3?
March 2005. Six years and counting.

Wolfstriked

06-26-11, 12:28 PM

It is theoretically possible to maintain depth while stationary. The problem is that this requires using the pumps, which is just as noisy if not more so than running the propulsion motors at slow speed. If it's the periscope wake you're worried about, at 2 knots the wake should be minimal, and they're just as likely to spot the 'scope itself as the 'feather'.

Thanks Sailor Steve,what do you mean by the pumps?If you mean to pump the water that flowed in to the sub out....thats another area I wonder about.I can see gaining cracks from diving too deep or even bullet holes and hence flooding but aren't subs water tight without any damage taken?

Also from what I gather there are two "safety" tanks on a WW2 German sub. http://jtmcdaniel.com/diving.html

It would seem that it would be super easy to add or remove air from the negative tank while stalking a convoy to maintain periscope depth.This would also explain why the compressed air tank is not very relevant in SH3.Would be kool to hear compressed air being blown every once in awhile while at periscope depth to simulate the negative tank being played with.

Right now we have blow ballast....would be kool to have a blow emergency button say if flooding becomes severe.

And Vodkaphile,you mention playing with the dive planes.This is excellent news as many times I am getting DC'ed and can't believe my helmsmen have set such a shallow dive angle.In SH4 there is option to maintain deep dive and would be excellent for SH3.

Also,is it possible to improve the sound aspect of submerged escape gameplay in SH3.What I mean is first and very important is the sound meter stays green when you ping for depth under keel.Second is when getting depth charged it stays red when I feel that as soon as the explosions start happening it should stay green and for a good while after.Would make waiting for DC to go off and giving flank speed/turning for a few seconds to allow new position and depth change.This could be a request for the Hsie and Stiebler crew though.....

Wolfstriked

06-26-11, 01:26 PM

And some more findings.Just now I went and placed the compressed air gauge in direct view via SHIFT F2.I then went to 25m depth and did blow ballast and normal surface the boat.It behaves erratically....

Blow ballast sometimes causes the CompressedA gauge to lower by 1 and 1/2 tick mark.Standard surface sometimes causes the CA gauge to lower by 1-1/2 tick marks also.Makes sense since they both blow the main tank out with air just at slower rates.Whats wrong is it sometimes lowers the gauge and sometimes doesn't.

And if you blow ballast once and then blow it again it lowers the CA gauge all the way below the blue safety margin.This I believe is probably how much the CA should lower when filling the main ballast tanks with air.In the same way the devs simplified so many parts of sub management for gameplay reasons(to not not scare away most customers...understandable) the CA usage seems right now like an afterthought in gameplay.

How about a button for a negative tank control.Right now my sub does not dive if I try to at slow engine speed setting.I use NYGM but have tweaked it so that it stays stable at periscope depth for 10 minutes at which point it starts to surface.But what would be kool is a button to tweak this slightly so that it sinks a bit faster when fill negative tank is pushed allowing the sub to dive a slight bit faster and then I can blow out the negative tank to keep the sub slightly bouyant.Its easily done by a tweak of the surfaced displacement percentage to the mass of sub.Doing it though requires brains in the coding department though.:O:

Sailor Steve

06-26-11, 03:06 PM

Thanks Sailor Steve,what do you mean by the pumps?If you mean to pump the water that flowed in to the sub out....thats another area I wonder about.I can see gaining cracks from diving too deep or even bullet holes and hence flooding but aren't subs water tight without any damage taken?
All ships leak a little, and there's no such thing as a perfect watertight seal. Actually of course some manage to be perfect, but it's the same as the proverb "there's no such thing as an unloaded gun." Even with welded seams on the hull some might not be perfect, the hatches all have a chance of not seating perfectly, the rudder and propellor-shaft joins may not be perfect. Also even when the boat seems to be in perfect trim, true perfection is impossible. Sooner or later the boat will rise or sink, depending on the trim, and unless the boat is moving those adjustments must be made by shifting water fore or aft, or by pumping some out. It's a fact of life when you're a sailor.

Right now we have blow ballast....would be kool to have a blow emergency button say if flooding becomes severe.
'E' key. It's extra cool if you're using DBSM.

Also,is it possible to improve the sound aspect of submerged escape gameplay in SH3.What I mean is first and very important is the sound meter stays green when you ping for depth under keel.Second is when getting depth charged it stays red when I feel that as soon as the explosions start happening it should stay green and for a good while after.Would make waiting for DC to go off and giving flank speed/turning for a few seconds to allow new position and depth change.This could be a request for the Hsie and Stiebler crew though.....
The Noise Meter is an indicator of how much noise you're making, nothing else. Also, it's totally unrealistic and shouldn't be there anyway.

Wolfstriked

06-26-11, 05:18 PM

All ships leak a little, and there's no such thing as a perfect watertight seal. Actually of course some manage to be perfect, but it's the same as the proverb "there's no such thing as an unloaded gun." Even with welded seams on the hull some might not be perfect, the hatches all have a chance of not seating perfectly, the rudder and propellor-shaft joins may not be perfect. Also even when the boat seems to be in perfect trim, true perfection is impossible. Sooner or later the boat will rise or sink, depending on the trim, and unless the boat is moving those adjustments must be made by shifting water fore or aft, or by pumping some out. It's a fact of life when you're a sailor.

I see now.Its as you say a fact of life being a sailor as most boats do have bilge pumps.I am still not sold on the subs will submerge or rise when at zero speeds though.There are so many tanks that can be tweaked to maintain any depth.Taken from

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap18.htm

"""A stationary dive is made when the ship is dead in the water. The main ballast tanks are completely flooded and enough water is flooded into the variable ballast tanks to destroy the remaining positive buoyancy. Flooding and pumping may be alternated to maintain the ship on an even keel at any desired depth. This type of dive is sometimes used during builder's trials to test and inspect the hull at various submerged depths down to final test depth."""

'E' key. It's extra cool if you're using DBSM.

I was thinking more if the flooding gets so severe and you blow ballast and still are sinking then you could have a few more of the actual safety tanks to use....instead of the dreaded ship sunk screen.Could give you enough time to get the flooding under control.

The Noise Meter is an indicator of how much noise you're making, nothing else. Also, it's totally unrealistic and shouldn't be there anyway.

Your most likely right.Do you know if NYGM models the sensors of enemy ships being useless during DC attacks?I think I read somewhere of a mod that does that.Also what do you think of the unrealistic compressed air modeling in SH3.If you look at the CA gauge it shows a blue graph that I think is how much one fill of the ballast tanks takes away from the CA reserve.I assume:Dthis because the dial also has a redline towards the lower end that matches the blue area in size....most likely telling the crew that they have enough CA to surface one more time so they better have the negative tank blown before that line is reached.:arrgh!:

Sh3 rules!:haha:

Fish In The Water

06-26-11, 05:48 PM

I'd say my biggest achievement so far is the pump/venting system,,,,think aotd...

If you go silent running you will slowly always lose depth due to shutting off your pumps to be more silent.

The deeper you go the more you will slowly 'dive' due to these effects. Unless you speed up and/or change dive plane. Yes I've figured out how to adjust the planes, so instead of setting 15m depth, you can set fore plane 5dgrees and aft a different depending on rate of descent/ascent.

Very good, now I think I can see where you're going with this.

Your ideas seem to fit quite nicely with your original description of 'true realism' as opposed to typical 'gameplay realism' which generally relies on artificial (AI cheating or spamming type) means to increase difficulty.

Just between you and me I think there would be a real appetite for this type of mod as a lot of people would probably appreciate the enhanced controls for tasks that are currently taken for granted in a one button universe.

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date with your progress. If there's one thing I've learned here it's that this community is a rich storehouse of talent with many members who are willing to help formulate (and implement) new ideas toward greater clarity and eventual realization.

In other words, we're surrounded by good hands so I'd encourage you to stick with it and (if need be) ask for help along the way.

Best of luck and keep up the good work! :up:

Sailor Steve

06-26-11, 06:24 PM

I see now.Its as you say a fact of life being a sailor as most boats do have bilge pumps.I am still not sold on the subs will submerge or rise when at zero speeds though.There are so many tanks that can be tweaked to maintain any depth.Taken from

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap18.htm (http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap18.htm)

From your own link:
In all normal submerged operations, the submarine is underway at relatively slow speeds. This horizontal motion through the water enables the surfaces of the diving planes to correct the effect of any slight positive or neagtive buoyancy and also to increse or decrease the submirged depth at the order from the conning officer.

I was thinking more if the flooding gets so severe and you blow ballast and still are sinking then you could have a few more of the actual safety tanks to use....instead of the dreaded ship sunk screen.Could give you enough time to get the flooding under control.
Blowing ballast means blowing all ballast. In an emergency you don't have time to play games with "how much" and "when".

ps When you do that trick of replying in bold inside someone else's quote you make it impossible to quote you again. I had to physically retype each of your replies before I could answer them.

Wolfstriked

06-26-11, 06:59 PM

From your own link:

Blowing ballast means blowing all ballast. In an emergency you don't have time to play games with "how much" and "when".

ps When you do that trick of replying in bold inside someone else's quote you make it impossible to quote you again. I had to physically retype each of your replies before I could answer them.

You win about a subs non-ability to hover as it seems people are hell bent on this not happening.Not a perfect hover but it can be done with no speed.Can we agree that the negative tanks were blown out after submerging to ensure positive buoyancy.I see alot of people saying that at low speeds the subs sink but thats not what I have been finding online.For safety reasons you want a positive buoyancy,just in case something happens to your compressed air supply.

Yes blowing ballast means all in SH3 since its a simple model of a subs ballast system.It just models one tank.I have to disagree with you that it means blow all tanks in real life.Why would you want to rocket to surface to meet your maker when you can slowly use all the tanks you have at the subs disposal so that doesn't happen giving you time to stop the flooding.

There should be a poll.....should ships sink or surface when at low speeds.

Sailor Steve

06-26-11, 08:25 PM

You win about a subs non-ability to hover as it seems people are hell bent on this not happening.Not a perfect hover but it can be done with no speed.
I'm not trying to win anything. It's just a question that has been discussed in these forums for years, and every now and then someone comes along and wants to do it all over.

Can we agree that the negative tanks were blown out after submerging to ensure positive buoyancy.I see alot of people saying that at low speeds the subs sink but thats not what I have been finding online.For safety reasons you want a positive buoyancy,just in case something happens to your compressed air supply.
That is true, to a point. If you lose power you are suddenly faced with the question of sinking until you get crushed or rising to the surface and getting blown to pieces (or captured if you manage to surrender before they kill you). As I said, even if you set for positive buoyancy, sooner or later the boat is going to take on water and the buoyance will change. All of this is controllable, but you're not going to remain silent if you have to change anything, and the whole point of shutting down the motors is to be silent. It's much easier to run at the minimum speed required to maintain depth without having to run the pumps, and any change in any of the tanks will definitely make noise.

Aces Of The Deep modelled this very nicely. Even at slow speed if you set Silent Running sooner or later the LI would inform you "Sir, cannot maintain depth unless we run the pumps."

Yes blowing ballast means all in SH3 since its a simple model of a subs ballast system.It just models one tank.I have to disagree with you that it means blow all tanks in real life.Why would you want to rocket to surface to meet your maker when you can slowly use all the tanks you have at the subs disposal so that doesn't happen giving you time to stop the flooding.
Blowing ballast is for emergencies. If you just want to change your depth the easiest, most effecient and quietest way is to keep forward momentum and use the dive planes.

There should be a poll.....should ships sink or surface when at low speeds.
There has been, long before you were around. NYGM created the "Anti-Hummingbird Mod", which made the sub slowly sink. GWX, for a time, had the sub rise, but instead of rising to the surface it would only rise two or three meters, which meant the player had to take that into account but not really worry about it.

I long ago advocated a random factor, in which the sub might start rising, might start sinking or might stay where it was, and you would never know. Unfortunately this doesn't seem possible within the game's structure.

vodkaphile

06-27-11, 12:13 AM

March 2005. Six years and counting.

lol I'm retarded sorry. You are correct, I was extremely tired and not thinking clearly.

Wolfstriked

06-27-11, 11:50 AM

I'm not trying to win anything. It's just a question that has been discussed in these forums for years, and every now and then someone comes along and wants to do it all over.

That is true, to a point. If you lose power you are suddenly faced with the question of sinking until you get crushed or rising to the surface and getting blown to pieces (or captured if you manage to surrender before they kill you). As I said, even if you set for positive buoyancy, sooner or later the boat is going to take on water and the buoyance will change. All of this is controllable, but you're not going to remain silent if you have to change anything, and the whole point of shutting down the motors is to be silent. It's much easier to run at the minimum speed required to maintain depth without having to run the pumps, and any change in any of the tanks will definitely make noise.

Aces Of The Deep modelled this very nicely. Even at slow speed if you set Silent Running sooner or later the LI would inform you "Sir, cannot maintain depth unless we run the pumps."

Blowing ballast is for emergencies. If you just want to change your depth the easiest, most effecient and quietest way is to keep forward momentum and use the dive planes.

There has been, long before you were around. NYGM created the "Anti-Hummingbird Mod", which made the sub slowly sink. GWX, for a time, had the sub rise, but instead of rising to the surface it would only rise two or three meters, which meant the player had to take that into account but not really worry about it.

I long ago advocated a random factor, in which the sub might start rising, might start sinking or might stay where it was, and you would never know. Unfortunately this doesn't seem possible within the game's structure.

It will never be settled then.:cry:Its probably not possible but having the compressed air move down 1/3 when surfacing would start some realism.Now if we could have a button toggle that will blow and fill the negative tank we can play around with steeper dives for DC evasion and it will also eat away at the CA thats leftover.Maybe even just realistic amount of CA used for surfacing andwhen silent running avery slow reduction of CA to simulate the DO trying to maintain depth.Last night I surfaced right next to a destroyer and freaked and ordered crash dive and felt that if we had realistic CA usage I would be in a bind.

Of course its only a dream.:rotfl2:

Hitman

06-27-11, 12:06 PM

It will never be settled then.:cry:

Actually it is settled, more or less. I mean, those of us who have been here with these discussions since SH2 :o have along the years got a clear picture of how it all worked. It's just that there is sadly no perfect and easy way to implement that into the game, as you seem to be limited to one effect (negative or positive) whereas in real life this changed depending on the actions of the chief engineer over trim, and other non-controllable factors like flooding, thermal layers (A sub can actually rest hovering in one of them with no noise or movement), water salinity and temperature, depth charges, etc.

Another nice feature that sadly we have been unable to recreate is the depth charges unbalancing the sub and sending it into an uncontrolled dive or rise. Effectively, a sub hovering is in balance in the water, and as anyone who has been near a small ship knows, you can actually move it with a push of your hand, even it weigths a few tons. So imagine what a depth charge exploding and displacing tons of water over/under her keel can do ... there were instances recorded of subs whose tail or nose was hovered above the surface in 45º angle by a depth charge, and the sudden move of all things inside plus the extreme angle, can easily send it in uncontrolled dive.

Hopefully H.Sie finds a way to recreate that :DL

Wolfstriked

06-27-11, 12:08 PM

Just found a kool gameplay feature.This is with NYGM and its sinking unless at least ahead standard is used.Kinda too harsh IMO but I think thats because I have put my engine settings to realistic values and so ahead slow gives only one to two knots in calm seas.

Ok,say you are stalking a convoy,keep and eye out on your depth and every time it sinks a full meter blow ballast and instantly press maintain depth.It will blow some air into the main ballast amd youll rise about a meter.Now with realistic CA usage and stalking a convoy will be more realistic and fun:yeah:

I wonder if its possible to go into the commands.cfg and enter in one button press and it will do two things like first hit blow ballast and instantly hit maintain depth???

Wolfstriked

06-27-11, 12:11 PM

Actually it is settled, more or less. I mean, those of us who have been here with these discussions since SH2 :o have along the years got a clear picture of how it all worked. It's just that there is sadly no perfect and easy way to implement that into the game, as you seem to be limited to one effect (negative or positive) whereas in real life this changed depending on the actions of the chief engineer over trim, and other non-controllable factors like flooding, thermal layers (A sub can actually rest hovering in one of them with no noise or movement), water salinity and temperature, depth charges, etc.

Another nice feature that sadly we have been unable to recreate is the depth charges unbalancing the sub and sending it into an uncontrolled dive or rise. Effectively, a sub hovering is in balance in the water, and as anyone who has been near a small ship knows, you can actually move it with a push of your hand, even it weigths a few tons. So imagine what a depth charge exploding and displacing tons of water over/under her keel can do ... there were instances recorded of subs whose tail or nose was hovered above the surface in 45º angle by a depth charge, and the sudden move of all things inside plus the extreme angle, can easily send it in uncontrolled dive.

Hopefully H.Sie finds a way to recreate that :DL

I will pray:up: Yeah its crazy and I read that smaller subs could handle DC attacks that larger subs couldn't since they would be blown away while the larger ships mass prevented that and so the ship took more damage.:o

Wolfstriked

06-29-11, 06:46 PM

vodkaphile

07-02-11, 10:08 AM

Vodkaphile,if your still working on this,can you tell me if you will have realistic damage done?I mean like pumps destroyed,hydroplanes destroyed,air compressor etc?Would love to lose my compressor and have to head back to port under power to keep ship afloat,or lose front hydroplane and have to deal with the trek back to port for repairs.

Also,how different will stalking a convoy be in regards to sensors?Right now it seems like they do not use hydrophones until you attack or they spot the periscope.I would think that a DD would constantly be scanning and for the real distance they could.

If possible.

It'll have to be done by abstract means I believe though. Unless I can reprogram a lot of it from the ground up which would mean it would be for a single sub at least in the beginning, most likely VII mod since it was most common and already has a great nearly full interior model add-on. Also it is my fav sub and I'm working on the mod so..:D

urfisch

07-02-11, 10:16 AM

hey vp...what about a progress update? reads very well, what you have been doing in your mod!

is an overview list of done improvements made available?

:hmmm:

vodkaphile

07-02-11, 10:31 AM

Small update:

Added filters for attack and observation periscope. No Icon, only a key command to switch out. Red and Amber. I'll have to research on all filters that were available to uboat captains.

Red is pretty easy, Amber is slightly off. Will post screenshots at a later time, esp for the amber since I'm gonna need some feedback on that.

Partially added ballast system with more fidelity. Causes hydrodynamic cavitation which alerts AI. Currently abstract, eg using a short duration bold to cause the bubbles. Blow ballast command still performs a full blow. Adjusting depth while not using dive planes/moving causes this same effect now and depletes compressed air reserves accordingly.

Working on manual dive plane adjustment.
Still working on individual systems control, pumps etc
Changed default setting of battery recharge when surfaced to off. You will have to switch it on manually. Also at flank speed you cannot recharge batteries as you need both screws/engines to achieve that speed.

Reworking Attack and Observation periscopes to make them more different/useful in realistic ways.

Researching, researching, researching.

EDIT: Also working on a "8 hour crew shift" system. Crews do not fatigue above 256 TC. "Damage Control" does not cause crew stamina loss or regeneration. This is meant to house extra crew, watch crew etc... It can be thought of as crew on break but not sleeping, doing small maintenance, cleaning tasks..etc - I am trying to set this 'station' to cause stamina loss when doing repairs however. Harder to do than it seems. This is very much a WIP and a secondary WIP, as my main goals now are changing 'minor details' to sub operation, giving the user more control over his sub.

I want crew fatigue to be a factor in your head but I don't like babysitting nor do I like no fatigue. I don't even like switching fatigue off @ a certain TC but it is my current work-a-round.

Ideally a clicking an officer and telling him to change crews and having them switch up..keeping the same personnel in the same areas as would be more realistic. Similiar to SHIV.

urfisch

07-02-11, 03:07 PM

sounds great!!!

:yeah:

Fish In The Water

07-02-11, 06:31 PM

Thanks for the update! :salute:

Wolfstriked

07-02-11, 06:56 PM

Sounds great.Love to see less automation and more player interaction.

vodkaphile

07-02-11, 06:56 PM

Some gameplay footage of the mod so far, WIP! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngfUvUYCiQk

Tell me what you think...

:) HEHE

vodkaphile

07-02-11, 07:54 PM

Rewriting the AI -

starting with escort type ships then merchants then the rest.

I'm talking total reverse engineered re-write. Making the AI really...AI.

I know I am bouncing around a lot on this mod and it will take ages....but as I delve deeper into the workings of SH3 and understanding the little bits, I get ideas and fall into new things.

As a computer scientist/physicist these things interest me. In real life I generally design computer models of theoretical physics, string theory - m-theory and the like. I specialize in trying to create artificial intelligence to react to different physical laws, etc...

Instead of scripted AI, I wish to create a true ai that reacts and makes decisions. I want the AI to know what it is, what it is doing and how to do it but not so much as to always form the perfect equation for your action.

This may not even be possible in SH3. It seems so however. I really need source code though, hacking it as much as possible and reverse engineering it is time consuming and wasteful.

Anyway, just a random spammy update.

reaper7

07-02-11, 08:08 PM

Sounds great, hope this can be achieved - any update to the AI would be outstanding. Any chance of getting the AI for subs working, at the moment its totally broken?

vodkaphile

07-03-11, 02:32 AM

Amber filter

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/amberh.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/amberh.jpg

Wolfstriked

07-10-11, 08:29 AM

Dude???Any news on your mod or did you call it quits....if so its kool.:yawn:

urfisch

07-10-11, 11:33 AM

i am very pleased about your ideas...nice work!

any screens or vids?

brett25

07-10-11, 12:15 PM

subscribed! vodkaphile, I really like the direction you are taking, great job:salute:

amber looks good, its hard to see from that image, but it does have a warmish tint

vodkaphile

07-14-11, 06:24 AM

I'm still working on it, it is just coming more slowly hehe.

I've been busy with work and other things. Plus playing the game as well lol.

I'm currently doing my own work as mentioned above but also trying to utilize other mods/supermods and take what I can from them to make it go faster as I stated previously. Once I figure out what I can include from the other mods etc, I will put a better list.

I'm trying to combine what I liked about mods like RUb, NYGM and GWX and the various other smaller mods and UI mods like Manos UI and Hitman's Scopes. These things are especially important because I am not good with graphics. Plus since I am focused on trying to model realism the best I can within the constraints of the game engine, I feel Hitman has it done very well. e.g. No artificial enhancements etc, I understand OLC/Manos GUIs have added zooms, etc to negate the depth perception issues and that sort of thing due to the nature of games however I still feel it is more unrealistic adding something that wasn't there.

I do love their UI though and feel it is leaps and bounds above Ubisofts UI.