2011 SUBSIM Werewolf Game: Intro, Rules, FAQ, & Aftermath

[mookiemookie]

That cuts both ways though. If you're a wolf, knowing he's human makes him a tasty target.

[Tarrasque]

Well both times he's been attacked (that we know about) it hasn't been that successful for the poor wolves has it! :D

[Tinman764]

[..]poor wolves[..]

Sympathiser!! Lynch hiiiiim! :arrgh!:

[Tarrasque]

Well you've got to be sympathetic to them. Poor buggers starved for the sake of a plot device. :har:

[Tinman764]

Well you've got to be sympathetic to them. Poor buggers starved for the sake of a plot device. :har:

It's hard to feel sorry for something that keeps finding bits of me stuck between it's teeth!

[Tarrasque]

You mean you got stuck between their teeth as well? That's just evil :rock:

[Jimbuna]

Well jimbuna is impossible to be lynched, because we know he's a human.

Humans can be lynched just as anyone else can. Look what happened to poor Rear.

Both of you are or could be correct...this is only a small part of the gameplay to be considered by the participants but a large part of what makes the game enjoyable.

[Onkel Neal]

2 hours to the vote ( and the roster keeps getting shorter)

AVGWarhawk ------- Enigma
jimbuna ------- AVGWarhawk
mookiemookie ------- AVGWarhawk
Takeda Shingen ------- AVGWarhawk
Tarrasque ------- Takeda
The Enigma ------- AVGWarhawk

--------------- --------------- ---------------
Dungeon - busted lock
Leave ---- every man for himself
Escaped -----No command stucture


Did we miss anyone??
Posted by Wendy
__________________

[Nisgeis]

Well done everyone so far. I was completely foolded by Lord Justice! Who's going to wake up dead tomorrow?

[Tinman764]

So AVG was the dark horse :hmmm:
That leaves 1 werewolf left? Well played everyone!
I have a theory who it is but I won't speculate, don't want to influence anyone.

[Tarrasque]

Why do I get the feeling, one way or the other I won't survive until nightfall tomorrow? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Whatever gave you that idea? :hmmm:

[Tarrasque]

The fact that everyone else is already discussing my death? :wah:

[Jimbuna]

Could possibly have anything to do with the fact we already knew the person you sided with was a werewolf? :hmmm:

[mookiemookie]

Why do I get the feeling, one way or the other I won't survive until nightfall tomorrow? :hmmm:

Because you won't. http://th269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/ImReallyNotOkay_TrustMe/Cute/Pixils/th_DevilSmiley.gif

[Jimbuna]

Because you won't. http://th269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/ImReallyNotOkay_TrustMe/Cute/Pixils/th_DevilSmiley.gif


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4872/1182400429cr.gif

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6356/av129190fjwl3.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

but Tarrasque must die so that we may live. "


Kind of selfish I would say.....:haha:

[Rear]

I think this is the reason that Rear started using the PA system - because people complained that they hadn't been told stuff. His reward for trying to make the game thread accessible to everyone? A bullet to the face.

Haha, yeah. I'm glad someone understood that :up: I was trying to move the game along and I felt the easiest way to do that was to end the German/British divide so that everyone was free to explore the island e.t.c.

Except Takeda of course - he belongs in the dungeon :smug:

[AVGWarhawk]

Haha, yeah. I'm glad someone understood that :up: I was trying to move the game along and I felt the easiest way to do that was to end the German/British divide so that everyone was free to explore the island e.t.c.

Except Takeda of course - he belongs in the dungeon :smug:


It was not a complaint about the PA system, it was part of the game and a tool to work over another character(player) in the game. It became some lighthearted fun. End result is it worked for the good of the game. :03:

[Rear]

Mookie began to look puzzled but at that point Jimbuna let out a rasping pump (for the benefit of any younger members who may be following this thread) it was so loud it would possibly wake the dead.

Mookie said "WTF"!

Jimbuna "Now I know why the werewolves never attacked me"

Mookie "Why is that"?

Jimbuna "Well isn't it obvious?....they would have had to consume that".

Both men gave each other an understanding look and nodded in agreement.

Don't roleplay for other players - Mookie might like your rasping pumps :rotfl2:

[Takeda Shingen]

Except Takeda of course - he belongs in the dungeon :smug:

If you had not tried to call me out, you'd probably still be in the game. You overplayed your hand, which, to be honest, wasn't all that strong to begin with. Besides, it should be obvious to you by now that you were shooting in the wrong direction.

[Rear]

If you had not tried to call me out, you'd probably still be in the game. You overplayed your hand, which, to be honest, wasn't all that strong to begin with. Besides, it should be obvious to you by now that you were shooting in the wrong direction.

To be honest, after LJ turned out to be a werewolf I realised that I didn't have a clue who any of them were but the dungeon was empty and I thought it would be funny to put the same guy back in :O:

[Lord Justice]

To be honest, after LJ turned out to be a werewolf I realised that I didn't have a clue who any of them Maybe you are all infected now, what if it actually spreads into seers and guardians ?? :har:

[AVGWarhawk]

I ended up in Jim's study.....:shifty:


http://www.hauntproject.com/images/werewolfhead.jpg

[Rear]

I ended up in Jim's study.....:shifty:

That's a dire (wolf) situation for you :O:

[Jimbuna]

Maybe you are all infected now, what if it actually spreads into seers and guardians ?? :har:

I'd probably be okay then :03:

[Jimbuna]

I ended up in Jim's study.....:shifty:


http://www.hauntproject.com/images/werewolfhead.jpg

ROFLMAO :rotfl2:

[mookiemookie]

Haha, yeah. I'm glad someone understood that :up: I was trying to move the game along and I felt the easiest way to do that was to end the German/British divide so that everyone was free to explore the island e.t.c.

Except Takeda of course - he belongs in the dungeon :smug:

Yeah, that would be my only constructive criticism of the game. The early days really limited the British because they were locked in a POW camp. Role playing a prisoner doesn't give you a lot of leeway. I understand the "escape/leave" mechanism was put in place to address this, but I would have just scrapped that whole idea and worked out some other way for the group as a whole to be free to roam and interact from the start.

[Nisgeis]

Well, it could be just me, since the hunt itself doesn't interest me that much and so I mostly play the game for the role-playing (Which I do enjoy a lot).

Yeah, different strokes etecetera. Last game I suggested to Tarjak he come up with a DNA test that would take 8 hours in darkness that he might like to role play setting up, monitoring and examining and announcing (which covering my seer ability). As long as people have fun is the main thing.

What's the normal rule as far as PMing someone in a game? Do people normally RP a whisper, or a secret note or are PM's totally secret?

I saw in the 1st hunt a lot of RP'd PM's, but not seen anything in this one though there must be a fair amount going on :)

It depends! I never saw any PMs in the first one, until the end and the first one was a demand for a screenshot of my iitial PM from Neal giving my class - I refused! And not just because I was a werewolf :D.

Whispering in game makes you look *REALLY* guilty, but it does at least make people ask 'what were you whispering about?'.

It's kind of embarrassing to admit this but for most of the game I really had believed that if I could verify someones location and status all night, pulling a guard shift with someone for example, and they didn't turn into a werewolf in front of my eyes (as it were) then for sure they weren't one.

I think you need one game under the belt to get the rules... I had the same problem in my first game and had a hard time understanding just exactly what was going on. I did wonder why you kept saying stuff like 'Well, at least we know we're definately human' - made you look dead guilty :DL.


The change between human and wolf form as well as the historically typical werewolf behavior (ripping the lungs out of anyone and everyone they can get their claws on) would be an impossible event to miss (or survive), at least it would be in any book or movie werewolf representation that I'd ever heard of. Same thing with the game werewolves ability to get past any defenses no matter how impervious. Heck, even Lon Chaney Jr. could be stopped by a stout door and a good lock!

So I played the game based on that idea, thereby casting undue suspicion against those who would deliberately separate themselves from the rest of the group. (Sorry Rear. :oops:), as well as undue trust in those who would seek to band together with others. Now I know that such devices are useless if I ever participate in this game again, i'll do so without saying or reading anything outside of official storyline posts from Neal.

This has been a lot more fun than I originally thought it would be when Neal invited me to play but without player interaction meaning something there are (to the plain human player at least) an insufficient number of reliable clues with which to accurately base decisions about anyone's guilt or innocence.

The game is an adaption of the 'Mafia' game where the 'Mafia' mob hire a hit man to rub out one of the town folk each night. In that game you have the same classes (mafia = werewolf, detective = seer, nurse = guardian, human = innocent townspeople) but you have absolutely no story at all. It is played live with everyone round a table. It's great fun.

The whole game was developed by a psychology professor in Russia, used to teach and demonstrate the behaviours of people in certain situations. I know it sounds weird, but you can get some cracking games with just suspicion and questioning alone with absolutely no story at all. In fact, that's the whole point. You question people and see if you can detect they are lying. Some people make stuff up that doesn't fit, or they accidentally let slip some bit of info they shouldn't have. It's all about accusal and rebuttal and of course it's all public.

Just look at the dialogue between AVG and Enigma. You can subtly tell from the dialogue that AVG is guilty!

Oh yeah also as a human you can wander about and try to find hidden things, which sometimes can be forgotten with the excitement of roleplaying.

[AVGWarhawk]

Just look at the dialogue between AVG and Enigma. You can subtly tell from the dialogue that AVG is guilty!



I knew my goose was cooked at that point. It is very hard to, let say, keep straight dialog when intimate knowledge of your being is now known. Kind of like when a suspect understands the cat is out of the bag and he begins to spill the beans about it all. :DL

[mookiemookie]

I tried to spice up my character a bit by having him spout a bit of Karl Pilkington's words of wisdom.

Sub-Lieutenant Mookie. Head like a ******g orange. :rotfl2:

[AVGWarhawk]

I swiped a few lines from the movies. :D A few good men...I changed the names to the players names.

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom.... You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. ...
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1692273&postcount=459

[Nisgeis]

How about next game the day / night cycles take a day each. That would sort out going to work / arriving home late to find you're already dead problems. Or would that make the game waaaay too slow?

I swiped a few lines from the movies. :D

I put one in from terminator. The werewolves abosultely will not stop until you are dead :-)

I didn't know Karl Pilkington had fame in the US. I'm impressed. God bless his perfectly round head.

[AVGWarhawk]

How about next game the day / night cycles take a day each. That would sort out going to work / arriving home late to find you're already dead problems. Or would that make the game waaaay too slow?



I put one in from terminator. The werewolves abosultely will not stop until you are dead :-)

I didn't know Karl Pilkington had fame in the US. I'm impressed. God bless his perfectly round head.


I also used Aliens 2 I believe. "Game over man, game over!"

[mookiemookie]

I didn't know Karl Pilkington had fame in the US. I'm impressed. God bless his perfectly round head.

An Idiot Abroad was on here. I absolutely loved that show. They show the Ricky Gervais show on HBO here as well.

[Nisgeis]

An Idiot Abroad was on here. I absolutely loved that show. They show the Ricky Gervais show on HBO here as well.

Oh my God, when he went bull riding in Mexico I cried with laughter. Just had another fit watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs7n0N8jzgY

Very funny at 2:30 onwards. "SWALLOW IT!"

[AVGWarhawk]

An Idiot Abroad was on here. I absolutely loved that show. They show the Ricky Gervais show on HBO here as well.

I read this as well. Friggin Carl man...hilarious! My daughts love that show. He is not doing a second season I hear. Millions watched it on the History Channel. Funny as hell....

[AVGWarhawk]

Little did Jim, Mookie and Enigma know...the island is home to:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v1nyF-OLGLU/TRyL1cCwkQI/AAAAAAAABKg/3VBsYJdZdGs/s1600/dogsoldierscover.jpg


Not much hope for the three Muskateers. :O:

[Nisgeis]

Well if Jim is saying he's not a guardian, I'd be interested to read WTH went on in the game :yep: and what the 'official' bits meant.

[mookiemookie]

I suppose since the game's effectively over, I can reveal all. Jim wasn't a guardian. I was. He was also the recipient of the talisman that I found from Lighthouse Keeper Steve. I used my guardian powers on Takeda every night. Our little alliance was safe and sound so long as I wasn't directly attacked.

[Takeda Shingen]

Indeed. I was a seer. On night one, I checked mookie's alignment. I approached him on day two via PM and we had been working together since. Night two was when I checked Jim, and we brought him onboard (although he was slow to trust us :D). I checked HunterICX on night three, found he was human, but he was killed before contact could be made. Around then, the Nisgeis/August situation occured, so we suspected them. I checked August. He was a human, and we brought him onboard. The rest you know.

I am very pleased with how our team worked out. We effectively steered the course of the game from behind the scenes from day three on, and were responsible for 3 of the 4 werewolf kills. :up: Rear was unfortunate collateral. We just couldn't risk people implicating the seer.

[Nisgeis]

So what was the inner glow about Jimbuna all about then? I may have been mislead about the seer...

[Takeda Shingen]

For that, we'd have to wait for Neal. None of us really have the answer there.

EDIT: Misread your post, Nisgeis. My bad.

[Rear]

So what was the inner glow about Jimbuna all about then? I may have been mislead about the seer...

The sun shining out of his arse? :sunny:

[The Enigma]

So, now its official. The Game is over.
The humans have won.

TaDaaaaaaaaa :rock:

[The Enigma]

So what was the inner glow about Jimbuna all about then? I may have been mislead about the seer...

I was a guardian, and that night was one of the nights, I've protected Jim.
I always thought, that it was the narrators way to tell he was protected by some kind of magic spell.

[Rear]

I think someone protected me on one of the nights because I was sure I was going to die :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

The first night I dispatched Bakkel. For no other reason than he was a cook.

When I went after Jim that really confused the hell out of me. I was not sure what Jim was. Seer, guardian human. I was not sure if he knew I was a wolf.

Nisgeis was up to something so I made him my next attack. This I believe threw a loop in the story for Neal because Nisgeis was coming back from the Nunnery. Those nuns talk too much!

Around this point Tarrasque reached out to me after I believe I attacked him. Thus we know both were wolfs.

No others reached out to me except Tak. Brief PM but I think Tak was on to me or was extremely uncertain.

I had a great time in the RP role.

[Rear]

Noone reached out to me until I was dead :stare: Got my post count up a bit though

[The Enigma]

I think someone protected me on one of the nights because I was sure I was going to die :O:

Must have been on night 2:
I've protected
Night 1: Tinman764
Night 2: Hauptman Rear
Night 3: Jimbuna
Night 4: Jimbuna
Night 5: mookiemookie
Night 6: Jimbuna
Night 7: Takeda

[AVGWarhawk]

I would have to say Enigma played a great roll at the end explaining those that are looking for answers and those looking to be loaners/dividing/protecting themselves. All valid observations and well written/played.

If we had to pick a player of the game....


My vote would be....


Tne Enigma!

Nice job sir!

[mookiemookie]

My strategy went thusly:

I was a guardian. I think I protected Raptor the first couple of nights. Tak approached me via PM once he found out what I was and we teamed up. I protected Takeda every night afterwards, as we needed a seer to help eliminate suspects and determine lynching targets. We brought jim and August on board, both humans, for their lynching votes.

When I found the Talisman, I PM'd Neal about transferring it to jim. I did this, but ran interference in the thread so that none of the wolves would know that I did. If they knew I no longer had it, I would be a target and if I was attacked I would lose my guardian ability and Tak would be unprotected. This worked from a role play stance, as in the last couple of games, guardians derived their ability from a charm they wore on their person, so I could make posts talking about fiddling with a necklace, and everyone would think I meant the Talisman, but I was really talking about my guardian charm.

Losing August was a blow to our voting bloc, but by that point, we had eliminated enough suspects and had whittled down the list to the point where our victory was a foregone conclusion.

[AVGWarhawk]

Noone reached out to me until I was dead :stare: Got my post count up a bit though


We reached out to you...then tied ya to a post. :DL:O:

[Onkel Neal]

Wowee! Man, that was cool, you guys kicked ass! :rock:


I hope you had a good time, this was the most interesting game yet.

I will return this evening with some observations, and a breakdown of the events. Nice job, guys.



I suppose since the game's effectively over, I can reveal all. Jim wasn't a guardian. I was. He was also the recipient of the talisman that I found from Lighthouse Keeper Steve. I used my guardian powers on Takeda every night. Our little alliance was safe and sound so long as I wasn't directly attacked.

As far as I can tell, I only made 1 mistake in the game management. It had no effect on the outcome, though. You were attacked by Ducimus on Night 5, but you were protected by Enigma that night. I don't think the rules covered this:


If the werewolf attacks the Guardian, he is unharmed, but he loses his powers, and can no longer protect anyone or himself against future attacks.



So, you were attacked, but you were protected, so I think that part does not affect you.


Indeed. I was a seer. On night one, I checked mookie's alignment. I approached him on day two via PM and we had been working together since. Night two was when I checked Jim, and we brought him onboard (although he was slow to trust us :D). I checked HunterICX on night three, found he was human, but he was killed before contact could be made. Around then, the Nisgeis/August situation occured, so we suspected them. I checked August. He was a human, and we brought him onboard. The rest you know.



It's always a mystery how a Seer gets anyone to trust him, though.... :hmmm:




So what was the inner glow about Jimbuna all about then? I may have been mislead about the seer...


That glow was just a narrative device to express the Guardian protect Jim enjoyed two nights in a row, as he was attacked both nights.

More to come...

[Jimbuna]

I suppose since the game's effectively over, I can reveal all. Jim wasn't a guardian. I was. He was also the recipient of the talisman that I found from Lighthouse Keeper Steve. I used my guardian powers on Takeda every night. Our little alliance was safe and sound so long as I wasn't directly attacked.

I was simply a human and the fatal error (in hindsight) of the wolves was their failure in attacking the guardian because he would then of lost his powers and I would have been forced to do the honourable thing and return the talisman to Mookie.

[Nisgeis]

Why did everyone vote so strangely then? E.G. for an idle player who could do not harm and then for me who was providing solid information about the number of werewolves?

[The Enigma]

I would have to say Enigma played a great roll at the end explaining those that are looking for answers and those looking to be loaners/dividing/protecting themselves. All valid observations and well written/played.

If we had to pick a player of the game....


My vote would be....


Tne Enigma!

Nice job sir!

THANK YOU SIR :salute:

It was an honor to take part in this game.
You all played your role great.

[Nisgeis]

I was simply a human and the fatal error (in hindsight) of the wolves was their failure in attacking the guardian because he would then of lost his powers and I would have been forced to do the honourable thing and return the talisman to Mookie.

How would they have known who was the guardian?

[Jimbuna]

So what was the inner glow about Jimbuna all about then? I may have been mislead about the seer...


Behave yersel bad boy...I was as puzzled as you after meeting a werewolf twice and surviving :DL

For that, we'd have to wait for Neal. None of us really have the answer there.

EDIT: Misread your post, Nisgeis. My bad.

Neal will no doubt reveal all in good time.

[AVGWarhawk]

I can say Jim confused the hell out of me and Tarrasque. We were uncertain if he was a guardian or protected. We planned a few times to attack together to overcome anything Jim might be. In the end we decided best to play the statistic game and try to reduce the human numbers by individual attacks.

[Nisgeis]

That glow was just a narrative device to express the Guardian protect Jim enjoyed two nights in a row, as he was attacked both nights.

I don't think I was the only one to have been confused by that narrative device. Whatever the actual meaning, I took it to mean Jimbuna is not a werewolf *official!* :DL.

[The Enigma]

I can say Jim confused the hell out of me and Tarrasque. We were uncertain if he was a guardian or protected. We planned a few times to attack together to overcome anything Jim might be. In the end we decided best to play the statistic game and try to reduce the human numbers by individual attacks.

How long did you know from each other, being a ww?

[AVGWarhawk]

Why did everyone vote so strangely then? E.G. for an idle player who could do not harm and then for me who was providing solid information about the number of werewolves?

I knew you were up to something at the darn Nunnery. I attacked and took your head off. At this point Neal was like..WOW...at least my impression. I think the game would have been busted open wide if you were left to live. I thought to take you out. The Nunnery could be no good for werewolves.

[Nisgeis]

How long did you know from each other, being a ww?

Yeah, did you attack each other early - and was that by accident or because you knew one was a werewolf?

[Jimbuna]

Wowee! Man, that was cool, you guys kicked ass! :rock:


That glow was just a narrative device to express the Guardian protect Jim enjoyed two nights in a row, as he was attacked both nights.

More to come...

Yes Neal...I am a tad confused how I survived two encounters with a beast and would also be interested in finding out who attacked me both nights and who, if anyone protected me :DL

[AVGWarhawk]

How long did you know from each other, being a ww?


I think three days. We kept getting blocked in our attacks. I went after Tak in the dugeon. No good. I went after Jim. No good.

[Nisgeis]

I knew you were up to something at the darn Nunnery. I attacked and took your head off. At this point Neal was like..WOW...at least my impression. I think the game would have been busted open wide if you were left to live. I thought to take you out. The Nunnery could be no good for werewolves.

To this day neither The Enigma nor I truly understand just what happened at the nunnery! It was emotional.

[Takeda Shingen]

Neal, that was a fantastically good time. Thank you for putting it all together. You did a first-rate job.

And thanks to all of you who played. What fun it was!

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes Neal...I am a tad confused how I survived two encounters with a beast and would also be interested in finding out who attacked me both nights and who, if anyone protected me :DL


The damn glow as the rasping pump! :haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

To this day neither The Enigma nor I truly understand just what happened at the nunnery! It was emotional.

Maybe Neal can explain it. I just know the Nunnery was no good for werewolves.

[Jimbuna]

Can I also say that IMHO the first werewolf game was way better than the next 'stranded submarine' one but this latest offering easily matches the first one.

I salute you all mateys...very well played :salute:

[mookiemookie]

How would they have known who was the guardian?

It wouldn't have mattered. If I was perceived to be unprotected, I would be an attack target. I wouldn't have been killed, but I would no longer have been a guardian with would have thrown a wrench into our plans.

[The Enigma]

Yes Neal...I am a tad confused how I survived two encounters with a beast and would also be interested in finding out who attacked me both nights and who, if anyone protected me :DL

Here is the answer to your question:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1695919&postcount=550

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, did you attack each other early - and was that by accident or because you knew one was a werewolf?


We attacked each other. In the attack Tarrasque knew I was a wolf. I did not know he was a wolf. He said..."there is enough blood on this island for both of us." Via PM of course. Since he thwarted my attack I was almost certain he was a wolf. We joined to work together. We did much via PM.

[The Enigma]

Neal, that was a fantastically good time. Thank you for putting it all together. You did a first-rate job.

And thanks to all of you who played. What fun it was!

I second that :up:

[EDIT]

And this goes for Wendy too!

[AVGWarhawk]

It was a great time. Love every minute of it!

[Jimbuna]

Here is the answer to your question:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1695919&postcount=550

So you were the second Guardian?

[The Enigma]

Yep, I covered your *ss ;)

In my final msg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1695773&postcount=795) at the game thread I more or less publish it.

[Bakkels]

Very, very well played gentlemen!! Especially after reading the explanation by Takeda :yeah: The end game was interesting, but at a certain point it just was clear AVG was a wolf. That's not his fault of course, he just got 'cornered' by the human's allied front. And at that point theres nothing one can do. (Great roleplaying btw AVG)

What I don't get is; did I get Neal wrong or something? I could swear that he made clear Jimbuna was a guardian in the narration? Something with a silver object?

Well anyway, I enjoyed reading it a lot.
But I got to ask, AVG: WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH COOKS???






;)

[The Enigma]

To this day neither The Enigma nor I truly understand just what happened at the nunnery! It was emotional.

For me, my stay at the nunnery was the hardest time during this game.
Not being allowed to write anymore msgs, nowhere.

I wanted to return, since I was pretty sure I knew the truth about whom being a wolf. But Neal told to wait until he said it was time and kept me waiting. :damn:

The positive thing about my stay:
I was able to prepare my speech and to check if my theory was solid as possible.

[Tinman764]

I wanna know who killed me :wah: I was also a seer, only had chance to investigate Nisgeis though I didn't contact him. Tried to investigate Rear on the 2nd night but got killed by 1 of those flee ridden mutts :dead:

I really enjoyed playing and also keeping up with the game though... Looking forward to the next one! :yeah:

[Nisgeis]

One thing I'll never get is why August and Nisgeis accused each other of being werewolves :damn:

You should have seen the PM Nisgesis sent me. Talk about trying to be sneaky! lol

I never accused August of being a werewolf publically.

As I was a human and had no powers at all, I decided that I would lie cheat and steal for the game. Now being cast as an SS officer was a bit of a handicap as no one would believe 'Bob the friendly SS officier', so I went all out creepy :-).

On the second night (I thought the first would be too unbelievable) I send the two most obvious werewolf candidates a PM. These candidates I determined by absence, post content and a sophisticated spreadsheet the likes of which no werewolf had seen before. The candidates I got back were Ducimus and August.

August was wandering about saying 'Oh yes! We're definately human!' Which was ultra suspicious - he later revealed that he didn't understand the rules in that regard, but none the less it marked him as a target as it did AVG (he was always going on about being a simple gardener and nothing more).

I devised a PM, which was risky, as if the recipient didn't fully analyse it, fully understand the message, the results could be disastrous. I selected Ducimus as he was absent, but was still logging in to subsim regularly and I also knew that Ducimus would examine the PM carefully and respond according to its implication. I also chose August, who, with a post count of 10,000, I assumed was a man that would read, understand and consider what was layed before him before responding off the cuff. Unfortunately I was wrong.

I sent the following PM to both August and Ducimus:

"Ah, <PLAYER>. I was hoping to catch you alone. I must inform you that last night in my altered form I tried to attack, but was told that I did not, as I recognised the scent of a fellow werewolf. It is fortunate I was able to supress my instincts and did not attack. Who knows what damage we would have done to each other." Ducimus recognised this as a potential trap (as he was a werewolf) and said nothing - I think a better response would have been to say that he understood that I was human.

I was unsure about August's ability to comprehend the message, so I sent a PM to Hunter to say that I had rattled his cage, in case August failed to 'get' the message, which he subsequently failed to get and posted in the game thread that I had 'confessed to being a werewolf' which of course I had not.

To explain fully:

Werewolf A attacks Werewolf B - Werewolf A knows Wereolf B is a werewolf.
Werewolf A atacks Human B - Human B dies.
Human A attacks Werewolf B - Not Possible.
Human A attacks human B - Not possible.

So, you receive a message saying that a werewolf attacked you... And YOU KNOW YOU ARE HUMAN. This means that you SHOULD BE DEAD!

But wait a moment! You aren't dead! This means that THE MESSAGE MUST BE FALSE! Yes! That's right. The message IS NOT TRUE. So this means that THE PERSON WHO SAID THEY ATTACKED YOU DID NOT! And therefore they must not be a werwolf but... yes that's right! they must be human.

But you'd only be able to deduce that if you were a human! If you were a werewolf you would believe that the person who contacted you was a werewolf and you'd do all sorts of odd stuff like:

If you were a werewolf, you'd know that the attacker could be genuine and would have to decide whether to interact with the imposter or ignore him. As a panicky werewolf you might even try to throw said werewwolf under the bus and accuse them directly and name them by posting in a public thread about what happened - thus also destroying that tactic and rendering it useless for the rest of the game "D'Oh!".

I did try to explain this rule implication to August and what it meant, but he just didn't seem interested, which was a shame.

[Nisgeis]

What I don't get is; did I get Neal wrong or something? I could swear that he made clear Jimbuna was a guardian in the narration? Something with a silver object?

That's what I thought, therefore don't lynch Jimbuna.

In review there was a glow that Jimbuna felt .... This for me was a definite sign that Jimbuna was a guardian. Named offcially as someone who had survived a werewolf attack at a time when all the werewolves would have been in lupine form and therefore a definite human.

[Tarrasque]

Very good game all. Well played.

Cheers to Neal for running it all.

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, here are the game notes I created before the game began:

Game NOTES and PLOT

Game consists of two groups, Brits in HMS Terrific, and Germans in Castle Collinswood. The roleplaying should begin along military lines, the dynamic of humans and werewolves should eventually supersede this and make the game more interesting--different players will react differently and some will be more and less likely to shed the Brit/German tags and play for survival.

Castle Collinswood is a ruins castle located in remote section of Finland.. HMS Terrific, after taking a pasting by Luftwaffe, sneaks in for repairs. They are surprised to find Germans, the Brits are taken prisoner. Germans keep them in a POW camp outside the walls of the castle.
Other setting elements: a path leads to a nunnery. Be sure to point out in the opening dialogue that only one man is allowed leave at a time. Some will be drawn to the nunnery like moths.

The Lighthouse is a ruin, the stair and floors have been destroyed by a fire from years ago. There will be a hidden chamber in the Lighthouse where Sailor Steve is hiding.
Interrogation dungeon, only one player can be locked here at a time, the Germans decide who, and the prisoner is safe from attack. It can be an enemy player (Brit) or a German player whom the other Germans are suspicious of.

During the Night, the Captain can choose one member of his crew to "escape"explore the area.

Tunnel is dark and blocked by debris. A player may clean it and gain safe passage to the lighthouse ruin.

Minefield has eight zones, four of which are safe, A, B, D, & F.

The woods are dangerous, but a player may venture through them one time.

Players cannot swim or fashion small boats to skirt the coast, the currents are too treacherous.



Plot Triggers:
· Dark spot in the woods: deep ravine, anyone who investigates is injured. He will awaken back at the castle wall, without knowing how he got there and cannot move around after being rescued. After the rescue, he becomes a secret werewolf and can move at night to kill.

· Any player who goes to the nunnery, stays at the nunnery and is safe for one day/night cycle. He is told in PM, none of the other players knows what happened to him -- he cannot post until the Narrator instructs him he has returned. He returns after one day/night cycle. If he is a werewolf, the sisters purge him of his evil power. He returns to the outpost with a scar 666 on his forehead. He can profess he is no longer a werewolf, if anyone will believe him.

· Minefield has eight zones, four of which are safe, A, B, D, & F. First player to go into the minefield through a non-safe zone is blown up, dead. After this, any other players any zones, no harm.

· Hidden man, cameo by Sailor Steve, in the Lighthouse. Basically, he will be an Easter egg, a man hiding in a narrow room in the lighthouse, surviving on honey, a pet sea gull that brings him fish, or something, maybe he stored a month's worth of salt beef and dry tack, and he can collect rain water, yadda yadda. He was staying in the castle alone until the Germans arrived. If a player finds him, Steve will post in the game thread with Official Discovery: Hello, I am will Tiresias. He will tell him where he can find a talisman that will protect him from werewolves (immunity). He can find it in the Widow's Den, beneath the 13th paving stone from the hollowed drinking scupper (or something). Steve will suggest the player climb over to the next nook and get a map of the minefield zones so he will know which zones are safe to cross. When the player does this, then Steve has disappeared and his part in the game is over. The player will likely go back to the castle and collect the talisman. A human with the talisman can fend off werewolf attacks. He can give the talisman to another player, but he must post in the game thread "I have the talisman and I "may" or may not give it to another player. Then he must PM the Narrator and the receiving player that he is transferring the talisman. Once he gives it, the other player may elect to keep it from then on. Only way you can lose the talisman is by being lynched. If you are lynched, the talisman goes to the first person who voted to lynch you. If a werewolf gains the talisman, he can keep it and prevent the humans from having this advantage.


Clues
Explore the chapel and you find a fragment of a journal, written by the lighthouse man, saying things about the island, "... and now the Germans have come, like the Teutonic knights, and the Vikings before them. The island will work its dark magic on them, and there will be blood and death. I must retreat to the only sanctuary there is on this island (lighthouse) and wait it out."

A Royal Navy tattoo on a werewolf game image


Red herrings:
The White Sands Beach is just a pretty place to chill, you can be killed there same as anywhere else.

[Onkel Neal]

Here are the identities and alignments:

Germans
The Enigma --- Guardian --- Schuetze
Tinman764 --- Seer --- Gefreiter
August --- Human --- Gefreiter
Oberon --- Human --- Schuetze
the_tyrant --- Human --- Schuetze
Nisgeis --- Human --- SS
HunterIXC --- Human --- Oberst
Rear --- Human --- Hauptmann
AVGWarhawk --- Werewolf --- Schuetze
Ducimus --- Werewolf --- Oberfeldwebel

British
Bakkels --- Human --- Cook
Raptor1 --- Human --- Captain
jimbuna --- Human --- Petty Officer
Task Force --- Human --- Sailor
Pioneer --- Human --- Sailor
Vendor --- Human --- Sailor (SPY)
mookiemookie --- Guardian --- Sub-lieutenant
Takeda Shingen --- Seer --- American News
Lord Justice --- Werewolf --- Petty Officer
Tarrasque --- Werewolf --- Chief

[Rear]

I can't wait for Neal's game summary :D

[mookiemookie]

It's always a mystery how a Seer gets anyone to trust him, though.... :hmmm:

It's a calculated risk. If someone's not a seer, and they PM another player and say "hey I'm a seer and I know you're a ____" they only have a 25% chance of guessing correctly. So you can be 75% sure they are who they say they are if they tell you correctly what class you are.

The benefits of teaming up with a seer outweigh that 25% chance that they're BSing you.

[Growler]

Fantastic tale well-told and well-played! Stuff like this, where the real creative genius of people (whom I've never met but consider friends and comrades nonetheless) comes out to play - this is what makes Subsim easily one of the best lil' corners of the Internet.

THANK YOU to Neal and ALL of the Players for a truly memorable Internet experience.

You guys really are the tops. :()1:

[Rear]

Here are the identities and alignments:


Vendor --- Human --- Sailor (SPY)


Spy? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, and since Vendor was MIA, that never got going.

Here's the activity log.
http://www.subsim.com/werewolf/2011/June_2011_werewolf_huntE.zip

The Story Elements

On Day 1, I set up the game, PMed each player his secret assignment and the basic for participating in character; they had to obey their superior officers. The POWs could only attempt a revolt if they had a numerical superiority of three over the Germans.

I supplied a map of the area, with several obvious features I hoped the players would investigate. There's the Forbidden forest, with its jagged dark area. The White Sands Beach, the minefield, St. Sophia's nunnery, and the Lighthouse Ruins. Each are would have some game trigger to reward the player.

Day 1: there will be no lynching, time for the players to get to know one another and develop their characters.

Night 1: Four werewolves and only 1 kill? Yeah, it was like the Keystone Kops. Ducimus decided not to attack anyone, and Lord Justice and Tarrasque both targeted AVGWarhawk, who is himself a werewolf. At least he tasted first blood, he took out the unfortunate cook of HMS Terrific, Bakkels.

Night 3: Jimbuna is the escapee, and he examines the kitchen. Nothing there worth noting. However, he is almost attacked by a WW, saved by protection from The Enigma. AVGWarhark's post #459 fairly gives himself away as a werewolf.

[Takeda Shingen]

It's a calculated risk. If someone's not a seer, and they PM another player and say "hey I'm a seer and I know you're a ____" they only have a 25% chance of guessing correctly. So you can be 75% sure they are who they say they are if they tell you correctly what class you are.

The benefits of teaming up with a seer outweigh that 25% chance that they're BSing you.

I agree, and that is why I am happy that mookie believed me. In the current game mechanics, a guardian-seer tandem is extreemly powerful. So, naturally, when I found a guardian on night one, I jumped at the opportunity to team up.

[HunterICX]

:salute: Great game all!

HunterICX

[Oberon]

Well played, the only comment I would make would be to reduce the amount of time which players are locked into position. I was itching to investigate the nunnery, woods or lighthouse but was stuck in the castle until Hunter gave leave, and I was killed before then. Bit of a shame but that's how it goes. I was lucky to get quite far in the last werewolf game before getting eaten. :arrgh!:

[Ducimus]

Night 1: Four werewolves and only 1 kill? Yeah, it was like the Keystone Kops. Ducimus decided not to attack anyone, and Lord Justice and Tarrasque both targeted AVGWarhawk, who is himself a werewolf. At least he tasted first blood, he took out the unfortunate cook of HMS Terrific, Bakkels.
.


I guess i misunderstood the rules or something. I was under the impression i wasn't supposed to attack anyone the first night for some reason. Either that or i just assumed id be the lone wolf, and wanted to draw things out a bit, and not make myself stick out on the first day.

The second time i missed an attack, was simply because i got caught up with other things and forgot to PM in an action.

So i missed two opprtunites to take someone out. bummer.

[August]

So, you receive a message saying that a werewolf attacked you... And YOU KNOW YOU ARE HUMAN. This means that you SHOULD BE DEAD!

But wait a moment! You aren't dead! This means that THE MESSAGE MUST BE FALSE! Yes! That's right. The message IS NOT TRUE. So this means that THE PERSON WHO SAID THEY ATTACKED YOU DID NOT! And therefore they must not be a werwolf but... yes that's right! they must be human.

Great theory Einstein, but how exactly was I supposed to know that you weren't exactly WHAT YOU SAID YOU WERE and that you weren't just sizing me up for your next target? You seriously expected me to tell a person who claims to be a werewolf that I was a human?

You're basically saying here "Well I lied about one part of my message so that is proof that i'm not lying in the second hidden part of my message".

Well I got news for you. Aside from the fact that going around telling people that you are a werewolf is a really dumb idea regardless of your intentions, no WW2 German soldier, (you know the WW2 German soldiers that we were role playing?) would ever receive such a message, from an SS man no less, and not IMMEDIATELY report it to his Commanding officer, which is exactly what I did.

I did try to explain this rule implication to August and what it meant, but he just didn't seem interested, which was a shame. Oh no you most certainly did not. The first communication between us, four days after your original PM by the way, was in response to my demand that you stop making calls about peoples alignment since you were out of the game.

Your excuse as I recall revolved around the fact that it was done to you in the last game and therefore you had a right to make those calls even though you personally didn't like the practice. Pretty hypocritical in my book.

As I told you then I don't care if the rules technically allow it, it's not the ethical thing to do and you'll notice that nobody else did it either so quit trying to blame your own bad game play on other people.

[Onkel Neal]

Well, deception and trikery are certainly part of the game.

[August]

Well, deception and trikery are certainly part of the game.

Exactly. But when one practices to deceive they can hardly blame the target of their trickery for failing to react as they intended.

[Rear]

*Harras pauses at the edge of the woods, he looks back towards the castle and hears the alarms going off. He barks once and then disappears into the forest, never to be seen again?*

Did he go into the dark patch in the forest and become a werewolf? :doh:

[August]

AVGWarhark's post #459 fairly gives himself away as a werewolf.

Ok I might be wrong about this but is that because he quoted Jack Nicholson?

http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/62/62_images/62wolfjack4.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok I might be wrong about this but is that because he quoted Jack Nicholson?




You can't handle the truth!

http://viz.cwrl.utexas.edu/files/afewgoodmenjacktruth.JPG

[August]

You can't handle the truth!

Horrible movie. Worse than Wolf imo.

[AVGWarhawk]

Horrible movie. Worse than Wolf imo.

Watched it twice. I'm not a fan of Tom Cruise but I think the movie was quite good.

[Onkel Neal]

Observations from the game.

The Allied side was stuck in a camp, yes, that would hinder them a bunch. With the one escapee, they had the same exploration opportunity as the one German on leave each day. The rest of the Germans were manning their duty. I did anticipate more scheming to take over the castle from the allies, maybe it was done in PM, behind the scenes.

Oddly, only one player took a look in the tunnel... and only one asked about skirting the minefield through the woods, and both were a few days into the game.

Rear using the PA was hilarious. And Nisgeis' comment about it even funnier. :haha:

No one mentioned or asked about the dark area in the woods. That would have been a real game-changer.

Yeah, when Mookie entered the lighthouse, there should be a subtle glow from the top window. He PMed me and thought
So basically what you're saying is there's no way to the top and I'm screwed?

No, man, get out your climbing shoes! :)

Really wished I had used a dog as an NCP, to give hints, etc. Man, that is so on my list for the next game.

On the werewolf hunt spreadsheet, you will want to unhide rows 3-11, those players died and I would hide the rows as time went. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to keep track of 20 players and various actions.

Night 2 was the werewolves' career night, 3 kills (Tarrasque took out Tinman, a Seer). At that point I began to think the wolves would win. They overcame their weak start, where two ww's piled on a third.

AVG and Tarrasque tied for the most ww kills, 4 each.

When the werewolves were unable to get a Guardian by Night 4, I felt the game went against them.

Jim led for the most attacks and still survived, twice, two nights in a row.

Castle Collinswood was named after Todd Collins.

Originally I was going to create room maps for the Great Hall, the chapel, and the Widow's Den. Haha, too time consuming.

I expected to see more torture and interrogation :(

Next game scheduled for Christmas holiday 2011. I hope to be a participant. Wanted to get in Letum's game, but he announced it and it didn't start for 3 weeks, and I had a trip scheduled when it started :shifty:

The role-playing, like I mentioned several times, was superb. And no one had a nervous breakdown, or got really frustrated. It was a really smooth game.

[Nisgeis]

Well I got news for you. Aside from the fact that going around telling people that you are a werewolf is a really dumb idea regardless of your intentions, no WW2 German soldier, (you know the WW2 German soldiers that we were role playing?) would ever receive such a message, from an SS man no less, and not IMMEDIATELY report it to his Commanding officer, which is exactly what I did.

Haha, thank you! It's a great idea and it worked with Ducimus, but not as well as I'd hoped. Unfortunately the tactic did rely on the person receiving it working out what it meant. A panicky werewolf would certainly try to throw another werewolf under the bus in order to prove their innocence, which was what it looked like you were doing - maybe that's why you were chosen as a seer target? You could have accused me privately in a PM to Hunter, but you did it publically so everyone could see - definate werewolf thing to do!

In fact, I had PMd Hunter to say that I had tried to rattle your cage and that you might flip out. He even posted that as a response to you to not take any action and that you had 'much to learn about the SS' but you missed it. Another suspicious thing happened and that was that I didn't see you post a vote, so you must have sent it via PM to Neal, which was itself suspicious.

It was because of your public accusal that I was lynch voted the next day as you were seered to be human, so people believed your accusation. Am I bitter about that? No, because it's a game and these things happen! :yep: The humans have to lynch a certain amount of humans before they start getting werewolves.

Also Rear mentioned you before I did and I only mentioned you once. After that I just posted a tally and pointed out some rules (which seemed to get confused in the roleplay). People (I think you at one point) were posting that there were three werewolves instead of the correct count of four, which also made them look guilty - misinformation etcetera. As I said, I don't agree with the talking after the game, as it puts pressure on the werewolves. But, it's Neal's game so Neal's rules and it was stated before I was lycnhed that we could post after death. Who knows what misinformation the datsardly werewolves were trying to spread, so the rules must remain in focus. I did not reveal my secret evidence, which I only read after I was dead, which was:

the bites that killed Oberst roughly match the ones that killed Tinman764.

LJ's teeth and claws appear to match the wounds on Oberon's body.
I didn't reveal anything after that either, when Tinamn PMd me to say he was a seer (I didn't expect two!), or when I was told that Tarrasque was the last WW.

Don't get caught up with the role play. Game play should take precedence over role play. We all know the rules and we all know there ARE werewolves, so there's no point losing a couple of days of solid investigation time to role play a WW2 soldier coming round to a slow realisation that there are werewolves. You have to hit the ground running - e.g. you KNOW there are werewolves and you know what they can do.

The whole game is about deception, counter espionage, accusal counter-accusal and outright bare faced lying.

[The Enigma]

Fantastic tale well-told and well-played! Stuff like this, where the real creative genius of people (whom I've never met but consider friends and comrades nonetheless) comes out to play - this is what makes Subsim easily one of the best lil' corners of the Internet.

THANK YOU to Neal and ALL of the Players for a truly memorable Internet experience.

You guys really are the tops. :()1:

I'm glad that you enjoyed the game. So did I.

After the debriefing, all actors will gather and there is an
opportunity for getting signed werewolf T-Shirts :D

[Nisgeis]

No one mentioned or asked about the dark area in the woods. That would have been a real game-changer.

The way I read it, the woods were dark and impenetrable, so I didn't even think to try there. I was looking for a Talisman, which I assumed would be in the religous place. Someone had searched the chappel, so I searched in the Widow's Den (and didn't find the hidden Talisman!), then went up the nunnery and we all know what happened there. I had a theory that religous things would hold the key to anti werewolf devices, but I looked in the wrong place.

I was going to go through the minefield to look at the lighthouse next, relying on my faith that God would guide me safely through, but my head accidentally fell off in a tragic case of suicide. As it turned out I was planning to go through sector H (which was deadly), so God wouldn't have been much help!



I expected to see more torture and interrogation :(

Tinman seered me first night, so he knew I was human, but didn't come forward and tell me. If he had of done, I would have suggested to Hunter that we put him in interrogation (for being drunk on duty AGAIN!) where he was safe and then asked Tinman to seer Hunter to see if he could be trusted. From there it would have been a solid power base to expand from, with the seer nicely protected. Takeda and the other group did a great job finding all the werewolves. Hunter could have been the common link to get us all together, but the game didn't go that way :DL and all three of us died horribly.

And a special thanks to you Neal. I know what an effort it can be compiling all the data so I can analyse it, so it must be ten times worse to try to collate it from all the players and weave the story round it. A magnificent effort and thanks very much for taking all that time to set it up and run it. :rock:

[The Enigma]

So there was no painting's secret to discover.
I nearly bought Pioneer's story, made me almost doubt my theory.

But his story was not backed up by an 'official discovery tag' and the fact
that he said that he survived a ww atack and the wolf lying at his feet made me decide not to take his story seriously.

Reading about all the back scene PM's.
Before the last day, the only PM's I've got were those from Neal.

The last day/night was fun.
Both sides where sending PM's to ask me to support their camp.
Also, both sides claim to have joint a pack of humans.

Since I wasn't PMed before and unaware what was going on behind the scenes, I was reluctant to reveal who I was.

I realize now I've been acting on my on most part of the game.

It was fun though :yeah:

[The Enigma]

And a special thanks to you Neal. I know what an effort it can be compiling all the data so I can analyse it, so it must be ten times worse to try to collate it from all the players and weave the story round it. A magnificent effort and thanks very much for taking all that time to set it up and run it. :rock:


Compliments for you role play.
You were a real blood adoring SS soldier.
Perfectly played. :rock:

[Tarrasque]

Both sides where sending PM's to ask me to support their camp.
Also, both sides claim to have joint a pack of humans.




That was more desperation on our part than anything else. We knew that if AVG was lynched, I would follow the day after. Therefore it was an attempt to delay things for one more cycle to hopefully give us a chance to eliminate sufficient humans to be able to survive the vote.

As it turns out, it wouldn't have worked even if you had believed us. The other alliance was just too well protected. We'd have needed two nights to destroy them - nights we just didn't have.

[The Enigma]

Indeed that wouldn't have saved you.

[Nisgeis]

Compliments for you role play.
You were a real blood adoring SS soldier.
Perfectly played. :rock:

I was never going to pull off 'Bob the emotionally sensitive caring SS officer', so I went full tilt evil. I was hoping that this would make me look like a good candidate to be seered (maybe that's why Tinman chose to seer me?) and also give me a bit of protecton from the werewolves, but that might have gone the other way as one might have attacked to confirm.

By the way to the wolves, what made AVG and his potatoes such an attractive target on the first night?

[Tarrasque]

In my case it was solely role play. An isolated gardener is an easier target than someone in a billet with several others or in a guarded castle.


That or I just like potatoes :O:

[Nisgeis]

Potatoes!

Oh my God, I can't believe I missed this the first time:

"Aye." The old captain rubbed his chin. "Aye, welcome aboard. Our next stop is Vanvikan. That's where we winter. It's a little village, but you're welcome to come along if you choose to earn your keep with shipboard duties."

That's Hillarious! :har:

[Tinman764]

Fantastic game, well played everyone! Defiantly a leaning process for me, I wish I had contacted Nisgeis after the 1st night but at the time I had no idea how to convince him I was telling the truth and I didn't know how he would react so early in the game to someone claiming to be a seer... I was worried I would be suspected as a possible werewolf.
Great to see there was a 2nd seer team kicking ass though! :yeah:

[Tinman764]

I was never going to pull off 'Bob the emotionally sensitive caring SS officer', so I went full tilt evil. I was hoping that this would make me look like a good candidate to be seered (maybe that's why Tinman chose to seer me?) and also give me a bit of protecton from the werewolves, but that might have gone the other way as one might have attacked to confirm.

By the way to the wolves, what made AVG and his potatoes such an attractive target on the first night?


That's exactly why I chose to seer you! Your opening post in the thread were you sized me up for various ways to be assassinated was awesome... Yet slightly worrying lol

[Nisgeis]

That's exactly why I chose to seer you! Your opening post in the thread were you sized me up for various ways to be assassinated was awesome... Yet slightly worrying lol

There was a joke I wanted to do, but it didn't fit in with the character. After arranging all the body parts I wanted to say:

" I have arranged all the right parts, but not neccessarily... in the right order."

[Jimbuna]

Here is the answer to your question:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1695919&postcount=550

So you were the second Guardian?

Yep, I covered your *ss ;)

In my final msg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1695773&postcount=795) at the game thread I more or less publish it.

Well thank you young man...most kind of you :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

That was more desperation on our part than anything else. We knew that if AVG was lynched, I would follow the day after. Therefore it was an attempt to delay things for one more cycle to hopefully give us a chance to eliminate sufficient humans to be able to survive the vote.

As it turns out, it wouldn't have worked even if you had believed us. The other alliance was just too well protected. We'd have needed two nights to destroy them - nights we just didn't have.

I think it was already too late by then...Takeda had seered AVG's identity so we knew he was a wolf, Mookie was protecting him and I was in possession of the Talisman...there fore as an alliance we were pretty much well covered.

At this point we were six left in game and the only question for us was 'Were you or Enigma the other wolf'?

AVG was lynched and Enigma joined the alliance meaning that there were only five players remaining and we had a clear voting majority.

If the vote to lynch you had of proved you were human the game would have simply ran on for one further day.

What I was never fully clear about: Three humans in an alliance gave one extra vote but did that mean Guardians and Seers were included in that calculation or would it have to be three 'ordinary' humans like myself?

Very well played to all who participated, I'll be checking all the windows and doors are firmly secured at work this evening :DL

@Neal

An excellent game mate....kudos and much credit to you :sunny:

[Oberon]

Concurred, and I hope to see you in the Politburo for the Thanksgiving Glasnost Comrade Neal. :salute:

[mookiemookie]

Next game scheduled for Christmas holiday 2011. I hope to be a participant.

I'd like to help run the next one in that case. I have a few ideas on how to juice things up a bit. :arrgh!:

[Onkel Neal]

I think you just volunteered to run it (see what I mean by "help") :Kaleun_Goofy:

[Tarrasque]

For what it's worth, if I'm around then I don't mind 'helping' to run it.

(Strongly emphasis on the help part - I doubt I could make it interesting running it on my own but don't mind helping out with the administration etc.)

[Raptor1]

Excellent game overall, but I think having the players locked up in the beginning wasn't the best thing to do. I didn't mind having two opposing groups, but if they're separated and unable to explore much it restricts a lot of role-playing. Things seemed to get more interesting after the Germans opened up the camp, but then I was murdered. (BTW, if I lived through the night, I planned on checking if I could get the submarine's deck gun working and put the Germans under siege, thus forcing their cooperation. :O:)

My guesses on who was the werewolf were disastrously mistaken until I died, though. My initial suspicious included Nisgeis, Hunter, Takeda and Task Force. Wrong! I did suspect Lord Justice some before he died, but not that much. And also Ducimus, but since he dropped out I sort of forgot about him, which I probably shouldn't have.

[Growler]

I know I wasn't a player, but I liked the POW angle - it definitely raised the tension level in the beginning, and became less important as other tension-raising aspects developed.

Just proves the adage: You can't please (or fool) everyone.

If life permits, I'm hoping to be in on the next slaughter.

[Bakkels]

Just wanted to add; great story writing / story telling Neal. :up:
I like the attention to detail with the map and pictures. Plus the various things to explore and find out. Greatly enhances the immersion-factor. Great job all round.


I know I wasn't a player, but I liked the POW angle - it definitely raised the tension level in the beginning, and became less important as other tension-raising aspects developed.

Just proves the adage: You can't please (or fool) everyone.

If life permits, I'm hoping to be in on the next slaughter.

Well you got a fitting / suspicious user-name already..:O:

[Growler]

Well you got a fitting / suspicious user-name already..:O:

:haha:LOL... well, it's not "Howler," at least. There's that.

[AVGWarhawk]

This was a first RP forum game for me. I did not completely understand the rules of play or the rules of engagement. Figured it out as I went along. Now that I have this one under my belt the next RP game will be that much more fun! :yeah:

[Nisgeis]

I was surprised there weren't more sign ups this time.

[The Enigma]

And also Ducimus, but since he dropped out I sort of forgot about him, which I probably shouldn't have.

I found his part of the game a bit misleading/unfair.
I thought he was unable to play the game any longer, due to RL.
So I took him of my list.

Later I learned that he wasn't posting anything, but still fulfilling his role of
werewolf.

How can one ever discover which role he is playing when he no longer takes part of the game? :hmmm:

[August]

I found his part of the game a bit misleading/unfair.
I thought he was unable to play the game any longer, due to RL.
So I took him of my list.

Later I learned that he wasn't posting anything, but still fulfilling his role of
werewolf.

How can one ever discover which role he is playing when he no longer takes part of the game? :hmmm:

As Neal said all a person really has to do is make a daily vote.

Maybe next time a rule should be added that if you don't vote or abstain your character gets killed off in some neutral fashion like tripping and falling off a cliff or something like that.

The way I see it no good can come from Role Playing. Best to just keep silent.

[mookiemookie]

Ok, there's good role play and there's cheeze role play. Good role play is playing your character in a realistic and believable fashion. Is he a scaredy cat? Is he brave? Is he stupid? Does he hate women? Is he left handed? Does he smoke? All of these sorts of traits make a fun and believable character. They also guide your decisions on how to react to game events as seen through the eyes of your character. Part of the fun of role playing is taking on a persona that's completely different than your own. Or playing your own persona in a different world.

Good role play also includes acting in a realistic manner to things. Are you a werewolf? Well it might be a good idea not to put your character in a situation where he's going to be watched all night long. Leave yourself an out so that your wolf can go out on his killing spree and be back without anyone knowing he was gone. Is he in a bunkhouse with people sleeping all around him? That's good - he can believably sneak out and be back without waking anyone around him. Is he up drinking with a group of other characters throughout the night? That's bad - it leaves him no time to make his transformation and kill and be back before someone missed him.

Cheeze role play also includes acting on information that you the player has, but your character could not have. Not that anyone would be foolish enough to do it, but if someone in-game was sat by themselves, a mile away from the group and said "I wish I wasn't a werewolf" then your character would have no in game knowlege of that, and it would be cheeze for you to act or vote as if he did. That's asking a lot of players in a game like this, but that's the spirit of what good role play is all about.

The way I see it no good can come from Role Playing. Best to just keep silent. Then why play? That's like saying "I'm going to start a SH3 career in 1944, but I'll probably get sunk so I'll just stay in port."

[Onkel Neal]

I found his part of the game a bit misleading/unfair.
I thought he was unable to play the game any longer, due to RL.
So I took him of my list.

Later I learned that he wasn't posting anything, but still fulfilling his role of
werewolf.

How can one ever discover which role he is playing when he no longer takes part of the game? :hmmm:

That's a very good point, see below.

As Neal said all a person really has to do is make a daily vote.

Maybe next time a rule should be added that if you don't vote or abstain your character gets killed off in some neutral fashion like tripping and falling off a cliff or something like that.



I think that's what we will do on the next round. My experience with the original Subsim Werewolf game told me that a few players would sign up but not participate, or only participate in the night actions. Now, in the case of Duc and August, they were both drafted to play, they did not volunteer :) And I appreciate that they were able to participate to an extent (August a great deal towards the end).

In the future, I think if a player is not active, he's fall off a cliff or something. Nothing personal, but it skews the game to have a low profile player.


Good role play also includes acting in a realistic manner to things. Are you a werewolf? Well it might be a good idea not to put your character in a situation where he's going to be watched all night long. Leave yourself an out so that your wolf can go out on his killing spree and be back without anyone knowing he was gone. Is he in a bunkhouse with people sleeping all around him? That's good - he can believably sneak out and be back without waking anyone around him. Is he up drinking with a group of other characters throughout the night? That's bad - it leaves him no time to make his transformation and kill and be back before someone missed him.



And that's a point August brought up in PM, about mid game. He was manning a guard post with another player to see if the other guy was a WW. But that won't work and allow the game to work, so no matter how determined you are to pin a player down in the game...these werewolves have the additional power to hypnotize you, go out and kill and return, and you will never know you were asleep :03:


Another factor the Narrator has to be wary of is writing character actions in the narrative. He has to be sure and not give away a character's identity while still making it interesting. Jimbuna was the only character I gave away, I felt I was allowed one, and it would make the game more dynamic.

You go back and read some of the narratives, I tried to make sure when mentioning characters, they could be seen in good or bad lights, independent of their identity.

[The Enigma]

In the future, I think if a player is not active, he's fall off a cliff or something.

That would/could solve it. :yeah:

[mookiemookie]

And that's a point August brought up in PM, about mid game. He was manning a guard post with another player to see if the other guy was a WW. But that won't work and allow the game to work, so no matter how determined you are to pin a player down in the game...these werewolves have the additional power to hypnotize you, go out and kill and return, and you will never know you were asleep :03:

This is true, there has to be that fall back for a game master to compensate for holes in a player's role play. Hypnosis, to me, is sort of a "soap opera amnesia" trope. It can work if you're forced to do it for storyline and game mechanics sake, but I personally try to not even go there. For example, when I was off in the lighthouse, I was trying to make it back to the castle in game (even though I had my day/night cycle screwed up) so that I could realistically perform my guardian role. It doesn't make any physical sense if I'm off on the other side of the island, but I somehow protect someone miles away. If you want to say it's a mystical psychic projection, then that's one thing. But I try not to lean too heavily on those sorts of plot devices. :up:

As for the inactive player thing - I agree. It's no fun to only have half a group playing. I'd kill them off too.

[Bakkels]

Well I guess it's also each player's responsibility to try to line up his actions with the overall storytelling and ingame roleplay of others. That way the narrator doesn't have to bend over backwards in order to keep everything credible and running smoothly.
But maybe next time it should be made very clear that

- This game asks for a lot of involvement, and may take up quite a bit of your (real-life) time. (Not that I would know anything about that though :haha:)
- The 'real' game can -for a large part- take place behind the scenes through PM's.
- Roleplaying is important -as it makes it fun, and it's not only about winning, but also about creating a great story with eachother- but generally has no effect on the storyline. Except when the narrator sees fit to make a particular action influence the storyline. (For example, digging yourself in with lots of guns and ammo doesn't protect you from anything, but certain plot-triggers do affect the game. And kudos to Neal for the plot-triggers in this one)

Just my two cents.

[Jimbuna]

Jimbuna was the only character I gave away, I felt I was allowed one, and it would make the game more dynamic.



Where was that ya bugga?....I must have missed that bit :doh:

I do agree on dispensing with those who don't vote or abstain even.

If people won't vote for fear of reprisals or drawing attention to themselves the game would soon get bogged down.

[Raptor1]

I agree with killing off players who don't participate at all or don't vote repeatedly, they just make the game unfair. I don't agree with removing players who properly abstain from lynching, though, there's plenty of valid reasons for not voting to lynch someone besides fear of reprisals.

[Bakkels]

The way I understood it, was that abstaining from a vote wasn't a problem as long as you actually PM it to the narrator.
I think you could have a reason to abstain from a vote, but at least PM it to Neal (or Mookiemookie next time? :03:) so it's clear you're playing the game.

[August]

Then why play? That's like saying "I'm going to start a SH3 career in 1944, but I'll probably get sunk so I'll just stay in port."

That's not really accurate. A player "leaves port" by just voting. I just think that role playing should be relevant. After all what is the use of having characters if their roles can be, really, should be ignored when it comes to game play?

[Nisgeis]

How can one ever discover which role he is playing when he no longer takes part of the game? :hmmm:

But that's a really big give away! One werewolf strategy is to keep quiet and not draw attention to himself. I was checking Ducimus' log in times and he was logging in consistently. I checked his posts and he had posted nothing at all, so the only reason to log in was to elect who to attack in a PM. I PMd him when I was suspicious and he didn't reply, even though he had logged in, so would have seen the PM. That's when I knew he was a werewolf, but of course I had no one to tell, without it looking like a diversion. Of course that's not roleplay, that's gameplay.

It's a good strategy for the opening and mid game, but not great for the end gane, when you can't suddenly say "Hey chaps! What's been occuring? Oh noes everyone is dead?! How could that have happened? Why are you all looking at me like that?".

Cheeze role play also includes acting on information that you the player has, but your character could not have. Not that anyone would be foolish enough to do it, but if someone in-game was sat by themselves, a mile away from the group and said "I wish I wasn't a werewolf" then your character would have no in game knowlege of that, and it would be cheeze for you to act or vote as if he did.

Didn't AVG do that? :DL. The original game is played round a table where everyone can hear everything anyone says, as the game is to pick up on what people say and the way they act if they know they are 'guilty', or possibly what slip ups they make - e.g. knowing how many werewolves are left, when they shouldn't know.

In game one, Neal put the corpses of my victims near the submarine and also in a later narrative mentioned that I was rowing back to the sub in the small hours alone in a rowing boat. Oh no! Not good, so I had to invent a raid on the pub to get some booze to explain why I was alone, otherwise that could have been as hairy as I was at night. I did this in the style of a journal entry, which no one could have read, but everyone did. But then, if everyone was asleep or not near the sub, how could they have even seen me rowing back? What if your character doesn't go near the scene of the crime? Then you are forced to rely on some other character telling your character specifically that a murder happened, then they'd have to repeat all the details and it would get rather spammy and you only have 12 hours to discuss who the werewolves are and all the time you don't know about the murder is time lost.

Even if two people are in the same room together, they can't read each others thoughts, but people still read them. If you have strict RP rules so that you are not all knowing, then the main feature of the game - the questioning and counter questioning is lost.

I personally, as the SS man had an array of bugs around the whole castle, so I could listen in on everyone's conversations :D and gain intelligence that way :yep:.

The main point of the game if for werewolves to kill all humans and humans to kill all werewolves. Gameplay has to beat Roleplay - as we saw when people were roomed together. Otherwise we could all just cluster in one room with AVG's stockpile of weapons of the future and keep a good eye out for who turned into Robin Williams. Gameplay has to come first, as there are so many ways for roleplay to get in the way of gameplay.

But to help this... how about at the start of the game everyone sees a werewolf attack someone and then they werewolf gets shots so we can all have a good look at it. I think that's how the first game started - with an attack on an NPC. It works for cluedo :DL. Then we don't have to go through the 'werewolves don't exist' stage, which I tried to help along with a good examination of the body and saying that it looked like a bear attack with immense power, so people could start talking about a monster straight away.

[The Enigma]

But that's a really big give away! One werewolf strategy is to keep quiet and not draw attention to himself. I was checking Ducimus' log in times and he was logging in consistently. I checked his posts and he had posted nothing at all, so the only reason to log in was to elect who to attack in a PM. I PMd him when I was suspicious and he didn't reply, even though he had logged in, so would have seen the PM. That's when I knew he was a werewolf, but of course I had no one to tell, without it looking like a diversion. Of course that's not roleplay, that's gameplay.


Seeing someone logging on and posting nothing, doesn't mean that much to me.
I do so very often, when I have no time (due to RL) to participate in any thread.

Ducimus also stated somewhere in a msg that he felt sorry not to have time to participate more in the game. He promised to catch up, but he didn't come back in the game.

When it comes to choosing to participate and afterwards discovering that you can't, since RL affairs need your attention is a very good reason to me for no longer taking part of the game.

But how can we (the players and narrator) deal with such situation?
If someone says "Sorry but I can't participate any longer" then that should fall within the category "official statement".

Therefore I'm in favor for the proposed solution to write such person out of the game (done by a narrator).


And about the "cheesing acting".
My approach is to dive into the role, like it were you who is actual living there.
What you say must be consistent, but you have good players and less good players.

Good players can act and play their role, no matter what happens.
I, as a matter of fact, haven't been that consistent with my role.
That happened at the moment when the feeling "winning the game" takes over from the role play.

I can imagine that everybody has strong moments in his role and weaker moments in his role. But is this such a bad thing?
For me it isn't since we all are amateurs in acting and perhaps a better Kaleun.

Also, an extra difficulty for me, was English not being my native language.
Not that I feel ashamed about my grammar, but finding the right words for
describing a place or situation was much harder then I ever imagined.
That you should also take in account as a possibility for less good acting.

[Nisgeis]

Who knows what's true and what's not in a game of deceipt?

Writing them out is a good way to go, as it frees up a lynch vote, though would affect the balance of the game. If a werewolf goes AWOL, their class could be trasferred to another player - but anyone who had seen that person previously would have to be informed of the change, or you'd get a wolf in sheep's clothing. Likewise if a seer went AWOL, their power and also results from previous seeings they had done would need to be transferred. Even transferring a werewolf has a problem, as you have no way of knowing if a seer told a human that they were a seer and for that human to suddenly become a werewolf and know who to attack...

If a seer/guardian/werewolf does not select a target, then it could be chosen at random. Werewolves can try to lie low or simply miss the dealine - perhaps they should be forced to attack by the maddening blood lust and their target chosen at random?

[The Enigma]

Writing them out is a good way to go, as it frees up a lynch vote, though would affect the balance of the game

But hasn't that already happen?
When someone suddenly stops participating, then the story has become unbalanced.
It's up to the remaining participants how to deal with the situation.

Maybe it's a better Idea to write him out of the game, but don't reveal his secret game role.

So when the player who stops, is a werewolf, it may not be necessary to reveal his role.

Sure, there will be some confusion about the amount of werewolves in the game, but I guess that this a part of the fun too.

When done so, everybody knows the actor isn't in the game no more and other players can concentrate on everybody else.

[The Enigma]

Maybe this idea is even better.

Neal, is it possible for a next game to give all the participants a new (temporally) logon to subsim?

Example:

The narrator creates all the characters not only for the story, but for logging on to the Subsim forum (game thread only) too.

A German with name "Heinz Oberhause" gets a login with the same name and so on.
Jimbuna get's the roleplay and the logon ID for "Heinz Oberhause", but after a while can no longer participate for reasons of his own.
Behind the scenes, I volunteer to take over the role of "Heinz Oberhause".

The game could continue without any problems.
Or do I miss something?

Also, since nobody knows who's actual ID is behind the actor's ID, the discovery will become even more fun.

[August]

Maybe this idea is even better.

Neal, is it possible for a next game to give all the participants a new (temporally) logon to subsim?

This is a great idea. It was a little mood breaking to type "Private The Enigma" or Lt. mookiemookie.

[Tinman764]

That's an excellent idea.

[Onkel Neal]

Maybe this idea is even better.

Neal, is it possible for a next game to give all the participants a new (temporally) logon to subsim?


Also, since nobody knows who's actual ID is behind the actor's ID, the discovery will become even more fun.


I like that part, would be cool, because then you have one more layer of deception...

[mookiemookie]

I really like that idea. Kind of goes along with one of my ideas for the next game - NPCs with their own login and avatar. That way it'd do even more for "immersion" (barf) Of course if you were going to do both, you'd have to make it clear in the beginning who the actual players are so they don't get confused and vote for lynching poor Joe the NPC. If you said something before the game started along the lines of "Ok players, you may encounter NPCs. Their posts will be made in green text." This way you could create new characters on the fly, give your players a push towards some place you wanted them to see, and create a world that feels alive and big.

[The Enigma]

I really like that idea. Kind of goes along with one of my ideas for the next game - NPCs with their own login and avatar. That way it'd do even more for "immersion" (barf) Of course if you were going to do both, you'd have to make it clear in the beginning who the actual players are so they don't get confused and vote for lynching poor Joe the NPC. If you said something before the game started along the lines of "Ok players, you may encounter NPCs. Their posts will be made in green text." This way you could create new characters on the fly, give your players a push towards some place you wanted them to see, and create a world that feels alive and big.

I've done my best MookieMookie, but I fail to follow your message.

In my idea it should not be revealed who's using a game logon ID (only Neal knows this).
That part remains secret until the game is over.
That's what it makes even more attractive.

[mookiemookie]

I've done my best MookieMookie, but I fail to follow your message.

In my idea it should not be revealed who's using a game logon ID (only Neal knows this).
That part remains secret until the game is over.
That's what it makes even more attractive.

No, no one is being revealed at all until the game is over. Players are assigned their role - Enigma plays "Obergefreiter Hans Ullmann", Mookie plays "Sgt Thomas Jones" etc. Who is who is kept a secret until the game is over. But then in addition to the players playing the game, you also have other characters who are not players. "Townsman Joe the Drunk" or "Mayor Petr Kranz". What I'm saying is that you just have to be sure to let the players like Mookie and Enigma know in the beginning that Joe the Drunk and Petr Kranz are story characters only and not suspects for lynching.

[Jimbuna]

I've done my best MookieMookie, but I fail to follow your message.

In my idea it should not be revealed who's using a game logon ID (only Neal knows this).
That part remains secret until the game is over.
That's what it makes even more attractive.

Remember....Neal will be playing the next game :DL

[The Enigma]

Remember....Neal will be playing the next game :DL

That doesn't need to be a problem.
Neal could assign a moderator with sufficient forum rights to do the game setup.

[August]

I've done my best MookieMookie, but I fail to follow your message.

In my idea it should not be revealed who's using a game logon ID (only Neal knows this).
That part remains secret until the game is over.
That's what it makes even more attractive.

What he means is two classes of game characters.

A player driven one, possibly anonymous as you suggest

and a NPC character controlled by the game master who could appear to interact with the human characters for purposes of helping along the game play.

[The Enigma]

What he means is two classes of game characters.

A player driven one, possibly anonymous as you suggest

and a NPC character controlled by the game master who could appear to interact with the human characters for purposes of helping along the game play.

Ah, now I get it.
Indeed, you can introduce such character then too.
I guess, NPC = Non Playing Character.

[August]

Ah, now I get it.
Indeed, you can introduce such character then too.
I guess, NPC = Non Playing Character.

Close, Non Player Character.

[Jimbuna]

That doesn't need to be a problem.
Neal could assign a moderator with sufficient forum rights to do the game setup.

Yeah, possibly :yep:

[The Enigma]

I've just donated a few bucks to SubSim.

Another way to say thank you for the fun I had last week here at subsim.

[Jimbuna]

I've just donated a few bucks to SubSim.

Another way to say thank you for the fun I had last week here at subsim.

Well send a few bucks my way for all the entertainment I'm accused of supplying...apparently :03:

[The Enigma]

Well send a few bucks my way for all the entertainment I'm accused of supplying...apparently :03:

and still are supplying... :haha:

[Rear]

Maybe the next game could be set on some Pacific Island with a US naval base on one side and a Japanese-controlled airfield on the other side or something...:salute:

I don't know if this has been done before since this was my first WW game (and first thread posts :O:) but it might be a nice change from the german/english setup?

[Jimbuna]

A bit like 'find the Jap sniper' :DL

[Oberon]

A bit like 'find the Jap sniper' :DL

Oh Christ, the game would go on forever... :haha:

[Growler]

Oh Christ, the game would go on forever... :haha:

Flamethrowers. We'll burn 'em out.

[Oberon]

Flamethrowers. We'll burn 'em out.

Do we have enough fuel? :doh:

[Growler]

Do we have enough fuel? :doh:

As long as we have these guys, beans, and a lighter, we're golden.

[Lord Justice]

And as the humans left, the lost remains of bakkels finger, suddenly immitated into form of a wolf like creature HOWELLLLLLL :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Oh Christ, the game would go on forever... :haha:

Just cut all the trees down :03:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/253342-2/f+_40_

[Oberon]

Just cut all the trees down :03:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/253342-2/f+_40_

That just leaves the four million bunkers, traps, hiding holes and random dense patches of grass that the buggers could hide in.

[Rear]

Oh noes, what have I done? :wah:

[The Enigma]

Oh noes, what have I done? :wah:


You... you... How could you...... :hmph: :03:

[Jimbuna]

That just leaves the four million bunkers, traps, hiding holes and random dense patches of grass that the buggers could hide in.

That's why we cut all the trees down....gives em more opportunites at ground level :DL

[Oberon]

That's why we cut all the trees down....gives em more opportunites at ground level :DL

Well, we are an equal opportunities army now I guess... :hmmm:

[Gangrene]

I love werewolf!!!!! I didn't know Sub Simmers played?!? Someone PM me please.

[Jimbuna]

I love werewolf!!!!! I didn't know Sub Simmers played?!? Someone PM me please.

That was months ago :DL