[REQ] Navigation bouys in SH5 [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Zedi

05-05-11, 01:20 AM

Outside LaSpezia/Italy.

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/1-1.jpg?t=1304575981
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/2-1.jpg?t=1304575985
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/3.jpg?t=1304575986
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/4.jpg?t=1304575986
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/5.jpg?t=1304575987

I dont even know whos permission to ask, the credits list is very long. And where exactly these buoys are used?

They float a bit low in the water and the texture need an update, but they are oke and every light works.. tested red, green and white.

Im not 100% sure about this as I tested these only for 20minutes/5 hours ingame.. but seems like they also block the patrol ships. From 5 patrol ships in port, only one was active when I arrived in the test area.. the rest... stuck. Similar to the problem with the mines. And this is with stock game, no mods ..

TheBeast

05-05-11, 02:37 AM

Zedi

05-05-11, 03:04 AM

I think it would be very easy to import these Bouy's to SH5:hmmm:

Update all CFG files to SH5 format
Undate Collusion Models - Damage Model doesn't matter
Copy the Bell Sounds controls from end of SH.sdl to your favorite Sound MOD SH.sdl
Place in Campaign
:rock:

The images posted by me are already from SH5 campaign, not single mission or SH3. Screens taken in LaSpezia in Mare Nostrum campaign.
Only the sdl need a bit of editing, everyhting else works ok.

stoianm

05-05-11, 09:42 AM

@Sober... seems that your wishes become true very fast... can you tell us all your wishes... seems it is the proper time for this:DL:

Navigation-bouys-in-SH5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGZQ2PY2qKs)

TheDarkWraith

05-05-11, 09:53 AM

I dont even know whos permission to ask, the credits list is very long. And where exactly these buoys are used?

DivingDuck is the one you should ask. He originally made this for SH3.

These bouys are used to mark channels for shipping lanes.

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 02:23 PM

The black/yellow buoys are used to mark dangerous Areas, like Wrecks or sands.
http://www.abload.de/img/600px-cardinal_mark_dign1a.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=600px-cardinal_mark_dign1a.png)
Green and red are for the shipping Lanes, red/white (vertical) mark the middle of a shipping Lane.

http://www.abload.de/img/lateral2d7qx.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=lateral2d7qx.jpg)

From Sea coming, the green buoys are on Starbord side.
Here an Example:
http://www.abload.de/img/boyen88hl.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=boyen88hl.jpg)

Sorry for the many Pictures, but i would bite in my Mouse if they where of the wrong Side ingame. :lost:

The Lights are reglemented too, but i think its too much work. But you can count the Flashes (at Pic 1) and see, where you must pass the Buoy.
But it is a great Advancement in my Opinion. Nice to see that.

Zedi

05-05-11, 03:02 PM

Huh... excellent info, thanks so much. So according to these rules.. in ports I will place only green and red ones. And the red ones will be in middle and green.. where? Im a complete noob with these things but I wanna make it right. So for example in Kiel I will place the red buoys on middle and green ones on booth shore side?

We have no wrecks in SH, so where I can use the yellow ones? Should I mark with them a mined area? :P Actually that would be very cool, so I can guide the players out of the mine fields in friendly areas, like Helgoland/North Sea.

stoianm

05-05-11, 03:06 PM

Huh... excellent info, thanks so much. So according to these rules.. in ports I will place only green and red ones. And the red ones will be in middle and green.. where? Im a complete noob with these things but I wanna make it right. So for example in Kiel I will place the red buoys on middle and green ones on booth shore side?

We have no wrecks in SH, so where I can use the green ones? Should I mark with them a mined area? :P Actually that would be very cool, so I can guide the players out of the mine fields in friendly areas, like Helgoland/North Sea.

I noticed that not all the buoys have a ringing bell ... the red and the green ones for sure:hmmm:

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 03:39 PM

Here a Chart from the Kieler Förde:
http://www.nv-pedia.de/pedia/?q=node/471
Parts of the Baltic coast, Florida and Caribbean you can find there.
With a right click enlarge.
Nice, in the Eckernförde Bight is the Torpedo Trail Area from the Torpedoversuchsstation, Torpedo Test Center. These are Yellow Buoys with a lying Cross on top.

Or look at openseamap.org, but this is uncomplete i think.
http://www.openseamap.org/

Bells was used on important Places, like the red Buoy at the Sands from Laboe or Weser 9, 2,5nm westward from Lighthouse "Roter Sand".
Here the Chart from Laboe, the Buoy is marked with "Bell".
http://www.abload.de/img/kielyugs.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=kielyugs.jpg)

The Yellow/Black you can use like the Kleverberg-Ost:
[/URL]
[url=http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=kardinalujeu.jpg]http://www.abload.de/img/kardinalujeu.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=kardinalujeu.jpg)

And i prefer yellow Buoys for Minefields. :D

Zedi

05-05-11, 03:59 PM

jwilliams

05-05-11, 04:06 PM

Zis ist nicht funny! Now I need to reorganize completely the whole port traffic and force the ships to sail on the correct side... and I thought this will be easy and fun. :dead:

Thanks again for the info, appreciate it.

Ouch....

But glad to see that your going to implement the correct harbour rules. :yeah:

Now I'm going to have to learn how to navigate correctly through a harbour.

Awesome work Zedi. :rock:

Budds

05-05-11, 04:21 PM

http://www.abload.de/img/lateral2d7qx.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=lateral2d7qx.jpg)

From Sea coming, the green buoys are on Starbord side.
Here an Example:
.

From :
http://yachtpals.com/how-to/navigation-us3

"Lateral Aids to Navigation generally indicate which side of an aid to navigation a vessel
should pass when channels are entered from seaward. In the
absence of a route leading from seaward, the conventional
direction of buoyage, generally follows a clockwise direction
around landmasses. The most important characteristic of an
aid is its color. The "3R" rule "Red Right
Returning" is the essential rule of thumb for using the
lateral system. This means that when entering one body of
water from a larger body of water (i.e. returning to a harbor
from a bay or sound), keep the red aids to starboard (right)
side and green aids to port (left) side. In addition, each
aid is numbered, and these numbers increase as entering from
seaward. "

Was how I learned it....
Red on Right when Returning...... if you have Both red and green, green on right when leaving Port. ( Green means GO,,,,, Red means STOP..... Green on Right when GOING out..... Red on Right When COMING home.)

Ya want a real mystery......
Figure out the lights on Ocean going Tugs and Cargo ships !
They got more than a Christmas Tree in Times Square !
So many Lights, in Rows, with different colors.... :hmmm:

Anywyas...........

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 04:30 PM

Zis ist nicht funny! Now I need to reorganize completely the whole port traffic and force the ships to sail on the correct side... and I thought this will be easy and fun. :dead:

Haha. :D' sry about that.
Its bad that the Wrecks are not permanent, also stranded Ships, that were a little sightseeing Effect at Harbor Approaches.

Edit:
@Budds: these are different Rules, Europe, Africa, Australia and most Parts of Asia use the Lateral A System, America, Japan, Phillipines and Korea the Lateral B System. There are the Starbord Buoys Red and the Port Buoys green, but the top Marking is the same as in A.

urfisch

05-05-11, 04:37 PM

this is getting interesting, guys!!!

Zedi

05-05-11, 04:49 PM

Haha. :D' sry about that.
Its bad that the Wrecks are not permanent, also stranded Ships, that were a little sightseeing Effect at Harbor Approaches.

Yeah right... TDW is already planning to add wrecks.. soon.

But seriously, were these things functional in ww2? How were these lights powered? With candles or .... ?

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 05:16 PM

Mmh, i think they use Petroleum, but not all Buoys are equipped with Lights. In the War there were less Buoys than normal, but i dont know.
An other Problem is, that they can used different Painting as today. I didnt find anything about that in the War.
But i think its o.k. to use green and red, so that anyone who drove an Uboat into the Port of Kiel, in Real Live know what to do in an Emergency Situation. :D

@Budds: i edited my last Post if you miss the Aswer of your Question.

Budds

05-05-11, 05:31 PM

"By 1910, Congress discontinued the Lighthouse Board and created the Lighthouse Service. The new agency was under the control of the secretary of commerce. The first Commissioner of Lighthouses was George Putnam. Putnam was the first and, very nearly, the last commissioner of the Lighthouse Service. His tenure extended from the service's inception until his retirement in 1935. Putnam did more for the cause of navigational aids and their maintenance than any other individual. He continued the Lighthouse Board's policy of experimentation and encouragement of new buoy designs. He also convinced Congress to allocate money for Lighthouse Service vessels, and crusaded for his employees. Under Putnam the most important advances in long-range aids took place. The United States led the way with the new technology - the radio beacon. The advent of radio-beacon technology made buoys, lightships and lighthouses "visible" from significantly greater distances. No longer did a mariner have to physically see a buoy. The radio beacon made it possible for vessels equipped with a radio direction finder to take a bearing up to 70 miles from a navigational aid and, once identified, set a course relative to the aid. Lighted buoys using compressed gas as a fuel gained popularity during Putnam's superintendence. Thirty years of trials and improvements, however, did not render the buoys entirely safe. The service issued instructions concerning safety in tending Pintsch, Willson, and American Gas Accumulator buoys because of the explosive nature of compressed gas. Most safety problems occurred during pressure tests. For example, in December 1910, an explosion of a Pintsch gas buoy killed a machinist attached to the tender Amaranth. The machinist had completed a routine pressure test and had shut down the compressor. According to Lighthouse Service reports, the buoy's cagework sheared away the mainmast of the Amaranth. The force of the explosion separated the top cone of the buoy from the body at the weld and hurled it through the roof of the depot's lamp shop. The blast forced the body of the buoy and its counterweight through the dock. The next issue of the Lighthouse Service Bulletin carried detailed instructions for pressure testing Pintsch gas buoys. The Willson buoy, designed and patented by Canadian inventor Thomas Willson, was inexplicably adopted by the Lighthouse Service. It also was a compressed- gas buoy, but worked on the carbide and water principle. Instead of pressurized gas, the fuel was solid calcium carbide, soaked with kerosene oil during the loading or "charging" process. This helped reduce the risk of explosion of the calcium carbide. The Willson buoy was charged by drying the inside of the buoy completely and applying mineral oil to the sides of the fuel chamber. The calcium carbide slid through a canvas chute into the chamber. This was risky business. Even with the best precautions the risk of explosion still existed, as happened aboard the tender Hibiscus in 1913. One explanation for this explosion was that a lump of carbide struck the side of the chamber and created a spark. This accident occurred in a dead calm. Charging this type of buoy on a blustery day or in a fast-moving current must have been exciting, if not nearly impossible."

From :
http://www.themaritimeguardians.com/coldfusion/buoy_history.cfm

:cool:

THE_MASK

05-05-11, 05:37 PM

Some sand banks in harbors would be the next step . It would be way more interesting in game if you had to negotiate sand banks and use the buoy system , now that we have real navigation . Just another piece of the puzzle i am imagining .

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 06:55 PM

Than i buy SH5 too.

...
:cool:
They dont need any Mines with that Buoys. :o

stoianm

05-05-11, 07:34 PM

@... i noticed that the sh file from sh3 and sh4 used for sounds the max volume to 200... the sh for sh5 can take max 100... because of that the sounds related to them are not heared (the first 3 of them) and the one wich is a bit louder you can hear just a bit... we need to rework again all hose 4 waves and to increase the volume in the wave sound:hmmm:

ETsd4

05-05-11, 08:26 PM

In the War there were less Buoys than normal, but i dont know.

This book with 400 pages from year 1943
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/snDf1/Lighthouses_02.jpg

has all the infos for buoys, lighthouses of the world war II area: (one page extract below)
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/snDf1/img_0022_77.jpg
(flashsequence, operated with gas & petroleum & dark, which colour, exact position, etc etc)

Maybe Kartengruppe can help us out here and can offer a scan.

LtzS_Petersen

05-05-11, 11:11 PM

Wow, that will be a big Treasure. :arrgh!:

Mmh, while searching this, i found at the Site of the National Library of Australia the Uboothandbuch of the East Coast of North America online:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g370932cm+gct00203)) (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/gmd:@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g370932cm+gct00203%29% 29)
With Maps in it. Free Download, one Map has 18 MB. Perhaps you will need a jpg2000 Plugin.
Small Detail:
http://www.abload.de/img/karteuboothandbuchz847.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=karteuboothandbuchz847.jpg)
Thanks Astralia! :salute:

Zedi

05-06-11, 02:15 AM

I found no strong evidence about buoys being used in ww2 inside ports. IMHO it would be a suicide gesture to light up your port in time of war. Same as sailing into a convoy with the lights on.

So maybe they could be placed in neutral places, like straits, shallow waters ... or to signal a minefield.

LtzS_Petersen

05-06-11, 08:11 AM

But approaching a Port were very hazardous after Sunset, especially in the shallow Waters of the Northsea Coast. You need something to navigate the Ship, astronomical Navigation is useless there.
The Light of the Buoys light not so far as a Lighthouse ( you can see it above, 3-4 nm) and can simply camouflaged against Aircraft.

jwilliams

05-06-11, 03:52 PM

Most light houses and light buoys were turned off during WWII, not all though. some were just dimmed. Escort ships towing lighted buoys were used to guide ships into port during fog and nights.

http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/news_info/press-resources/faqs.html#22
The lights on many lighthouses and lightvessels were extinguished during the Second World War, but not all lights were extinguished outright. Trinity House worked extensively with the Admiralty to decide which lights should be merely dimmed, so as to aid navigation for Britain's merchant and fighting ships.
Trinity House Pilots worked throughout the nights to get ships into safe ports, and Trinity House Tenders worked to help clear minefields, evacuate the occupied Channel Islands and take part in the events of D-Day.
Many lighthouses on enemy flight paths were painted with camouflage paint. Many Keepers on Lighthouses, and crewmen on Lightvessels lost their lives, and are commemorated on a memorial in Trinity Square in London.

stoianm

05-06-11, 03:55 PM

Make sens because the lights near ports show the position for enemy aircrafts in war time

Zedi

05-09-11, 11:57 AM

Just to get this right.. when im leaving port I need to have on the right side of my ship the red buoys, and when I enter the port the green ones. Is this correct?

This mod have the following type of buoys:
Green Buoy Steady Light
Green Buoy Flashing Light

Red Buoy Steady Light
Red Buoy Flashing Light

Orange Buoy Steady Light
Orange Buoy Flashing Light

Danger Buoy Steady Light
Danger Buoy Flashing Light

Whats the difference between the flashing and steady lights, I mean.. where and when I use them? And whats with the Orange buoys? The danger ones have also 2 type.. flashing one is for big dangers like wrecks, mines etc and steady for shallow water?

unionemerald

05-09-11, 01:36 PM

Take a look at this website:

http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse9.html

Zedi

05-09-11, 02:24 PM

Very confusing. Seems like this system is not universal and was not valid in ww2.

These lights and marks are prescribed across the world by the International Association of Lighthouse Authorities (IALA). In 1977 this IALA endorsed two maritime buoyage systems putting an end to the 30 odd systems existing at that time. Region A - IALA A covers all of Europe and most of the rest of the world, whereas region B - IALA B covers only the Americas, Japan, the Philippines and Korea. Fortunately, the differences between these two systems are few. The most striking difference is the direction of buoyage.

Quoting from this site (http://www.fish4fun.com/buoys.htm):
Generally speaking, green markers are kept to the RIGHT when leaving a harbor and red markers are kept to the RIGHT when returning to harbor, thus coining the phrase, "Red, Right , Returning".

So that means.. I have red light on my right side when I enter in port and green when I leave it. Im a total noob regarding these stuff, so someone with sailing experience pls clarify these things.

LtzS_Petersen

05-09-11, 03:13 PM

http://www.abload.de/img/boyen88hl.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=boyen88hl.jpg)

The green Buoys are on the Starbord Side (Right, if you look ahead), when you enter the Port. When you leave, Red are on your right Side.
In Europe. America use red Paint for the Starbord Buoys. :doh:

I think, this System wasnt use during the War, cause its from 1978. But i didnt find anything about the System in Germany during the War. The Book "Leuchtfeuer und Signalstellen" (ETsd4 show this) isnt cheap to get. 153 Euros... :o

The Light Sequences are different, so you can count the Flashes and look in the Chart, which Buoy you pass. So there was no Mistake about the Position of the Ship. You can mix it, if you have only two Versions of them. But steady Lights wasnt used on Buoys, cause you can confound it with the Position Light of a Ship.
Orange Buoys u can use to mark some special Areas, like Shooting Ranges ore similar. What color have the Danger Buoys?

Zedi

05-09-11, 03:44 PM

Danger bouys are yellow.

But im very confused now. You say "When you leave, Red are on your right Side" and most of the nautical websites says "green markers are kept to the RIGHT when leaving a harbor". So what should I do now? Or green on right when leaving port is used in US only?

Budds

05-09-11, 03:54 PM

Yes I was confused at first as well,,,,,,,,,,

I have never had the chance to navigate Europes waters !

There is a system for your region :
http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/buoy_lateral.htm

"IALA A (http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/iala_a.htm)Covers Europe, Africa, Australia and most of Asia.
IALA B (http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/iala_b.htm) Covers North and South America, Japan and Philippines."

Helps?
:)

**edit**

From all I could gather...
Marker colors were just starting to follow standards at that time, but was in no way "Universal".
Some were black, some were mere wood poles, some Harbors chose their own colors !
I'm sure with more research it could be found what was used for the time period and a specifc area .... maybe...lol...

:D

Zedi

05-09-11, 04:12 PM

Aight, then this is it.

IALA A covers Europe, Africa, Australia and most of Asia.
Entrance to harbour -
Green light in STARBORD side
Red light in PORT side

http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/graphic/entrance.gif

http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/graphic/chanel.gif

IALA B covers North and South America, Japan and Philippines.
Entrance to harbour -
Green light in PORTside
Red light in STARBORD side

http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/graphic/entrance1_B.GIF

http://cgate.co.il/eng/Seamanship/graphic/chanel_B.gif

crist.. my eyes are flashing now.

Thanks folks!

LtzS_Petersen

05-09-11, 06:22 PM

SH5 plays on german Side, so i would prefer german Rules. So you can place the Buoys like in the Chart, that i posted before. (http://www.nv-pedia.de/pedia/?q=node/471) I think its easier than use the american Rules, cause you can place the Buoys like in the Chart.

Coming Home= green to green. :salute:

The Danger Buoys yuo can use like you want, some are shown in the Chart on dangerous Sands.

THE_MASK

05-09-11, 06:43 PM

Danger will robinson
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6979/reef3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/reef3.jpg/)
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2122/reef.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/reef.jpg/)
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8242/reef2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/reef2.jpg/)

THE_MASK

05-09-11, 06:53 PM

Is it possible to script harbor traffic to follow a narrow path , IE following a navigation path thru a channel ?

stoianm

05-09-11, 06:59 PM

stoianm

05-09-11, 07:00 PM

Is it possible to script harbor traffic to follow a narrow path , IE following a navigation path thru a channel ?
I think yes:hmmm:... zedi show me something yesterday and i remember that you can well define port trafic

Zedi

05-10-11, 01:28 AM

Is it possible to script harbor traffic to follow a narrow path , IE following a navigation path thru a channel ?

Yes. Its a bit tricky because somethimes the ai tend to get stuck, but with patience and a lot of testing everything is possible. And now we have buoys.. getting out and in the port with tc1 is just awesome.

@LtzS_Petersen
Im using IALA A for Europe and IALA B for US.. not sure about the last part, but now Ive got more people willing to help with the campaign, maybe we can rework the US ports too. Thank you all for the help, much appreciated.

LtzS_Petersen

05-10-11, 02:33 AM

That will be perfect. :yeah:
The Sands in Sobers Pictures are perfect for some Danger Buoys.

Will the Position of the Buoys shown in the Map too?

KarlKoch

05-10-11, 03:17 AM

As far as i remember a friend of mine saying, US buoy system is different than the one for the rest of the world. I don't know if it already was during WW2, but i think it was.
Difference is, (afair) that the direction of the path is different. If in europe red buoys are on the port side of the ship when entering harbour, it would be red buoys on the starboard side of the ship when entering harbour in US.
I have no direct source for this, but it might be worth to search for some maps.

Zedi

05-10-11, 05:24 AM

KarlKoch

05-10-11, 05:31 AM

Thats correct.. IALA A and IALA B, see me post on the top of this page. Is what I will use in the game in every major port.
Whoops, seems as if i missed half of your post. Sorry for that. Good work. :)

stoianm

05-12-11, 04:09 AM

:DL here some flying buoys:

MOVIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKDAS1O-5kY)

But i am geting close:cool:....

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 04:26 AM

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-edJSRwaz0&feature=fvsr

From 1:09 round about.

B.t.w.: Funny Vid of your Buoys. :D But nice work.
They moving not so heavy, cause their gravity Center ist low (due to the Chain or Steel Cable at the ground Weight of 3 Tons).

stoianm

05-12-11, 04:42 AM

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 04:57 AM

Good. :D
Formerly the Moving looks like they are filled with Vodka.

Zedi

05-12-11, 05:09 AM

Good. :D
Formerly the Moving looks like they are filled with Vodka.

In case you missed it, I released a public test version of MN campaign (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=182964) where I have placed these buoys outside the start base.. I would be interested to have your feedback after you test them in the game.

Stoian is working on the buoys flotation, sound etc.. but Im interested if they are placed in the right position, if the distance between them is alright etc. So if you have time, pls test and give feedback.

stoianm

05-12-11, 06:36 AM

I need to know pls if they are moving more up and down or they are moving more left-right when the sea is agitate... also i need to know what is the maximum distance that we supouse to hear the sound made by the ringing bell that is on a buoy
tnx

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 08:16 AM

...So if you have time, pls test and give feedback.
I had to buy SH 5 first. But that is in Progress. :D

@stoianm:
Moving Buoys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeinSYKLUOE&feature=related
Higher Waves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIGUmbCG98&feature=related
Bell buoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfc3SWrwAt4
The Bell you can hear about 1-2 nm.
at the Begin of these Video, you can hear it very quiet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZMN-Kt29w&feature=related

stoianm

05-12-11, 08:39 AM

I had to buy SH 5 first. But that is in Progress. :D

@stoianm:
Moving Buoys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeinSYKLUOE&feature=related
Higher Waves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIGUmbCG98&feature=related
Bell buoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfc3SWrwAt4
The Bell you can hear about 1-2 nm.
at the Begin of these Video, you can hear it very quiet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZMN-Kt29w&feature=related
tnx mate:salute:

stoianm

05-12-11, 01:00 PM

I fixed the first buoy... the balance and the sound... i have 7 left but will be more easy now... here:

MOVIE-BUOYS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpvu52u4JM)

What do you think.. it is ok? ...i can not do better than that:hmmm:

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 02:08 PM

You did a really good Job. :up:
Draft is perfect, the moving Sound (hope you know what i mean) is really good.

A little more left/right Moving, like in the second Vid would be great.

stoianm

05-12-11, 02:13 PM

You did a really good Job. :up:
Draft is perfect, the moving Sound (hope you know what i mean) is really good.

A little more left/right Moving, like in the second Vid will be great.
The left - right is increased in the second movie because the waves increased also... i used the same setings for left-right in both movies... gap made the sound now from the movie that you posted... i am going to test now... i liked more the sound from the video that you posted... is more realistic:)

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 02:20 PM

stoianm

05-12-11, 02:29 PM

Oh, i mean the second Video that i have posted, the Buoy in the high waves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIGUmbCG98&feature=related
:D
And yes, the Sound could be a little darker. Nice to hear, that you will use the original Sound.
I can not... if i will makelike this will be to much balance in low waves also unfortunatelly... ... but i increased a bit more than the video i posted after you told me that will be more realistic to increase left-right:up:

Zedi

05-12-11, 02:29 PM

stoianm

05-12-11, 02:37 PM

Texture done, now looks like a danger buoy and is visible from great distances.

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5%20misc/SH5Img2011-05-12_221258.jpg?t=1305228304

Sux that we can see the under water part from above and has no shadow.. is like being in sh3 :/ But even so, it looks, feel and most of all.. sounds absolutely great. And I love how you worked out the collision model. Nice work Stoian.
Look very nice the texture... i made all 6 of them... now i want to rework the sounds... gap took the sounds from that video and now we try to fine tunning... is more realistic... also i increased just a bit the lef and right... i will send you all of them in few minutes... do you think 6 is enough?: green (with and without bell), red (with and without bell) and yellow (with and without bell)... the other 2 i did not reworked... if somebody think that we need them also i will rework ... but i think the 6 that we have are more than enough:hmmm:

LtzS_Petersen

05-12-11, 02:59 PM

I can not... if i will makelike this will be to much balance in low waves also unfortunatelly... ... but i increased a bit more than the video i posted after you told me that will be more realistic to increase left-right:up:
There is ever a little moving in Waves, also in small Waves. But i know what you mean, i tried to change the Moving of the playable Destroyers in SH4. Its a really fine Adjustment needed.

Nice Texture Zedi!
I hope that Amazon is fast, so that i can see the Buoys tomorrow. :|\\

THE_MASK

05-12-11, 06:15 PM

Fantastic work you blokes . Now we need a pull out chart with the navigation bouy colors and rules :salute:

Zedi

05-13-11, 02:01 AM

Sober, we count on your work on terrain so we can mark the shallow and dangerous waters too .. keep us updated ;)

urfisch

05-13-11, 01:20 PM

nice progress!!!

LtzS_Petersen

05-14-11, 10:23 AM

O.k. Zedi, ich checked your Buoys in La Spezia, they looking very good. :yeah:
I ask me, how he made different Lights.

At the First try i run into a Pier, cause i couldnt find the Rudder in SH5. Very strange...

Sepp von Ch.

05-14-11, 03:06 PM

Absolutely brilliant looks this navigation bouy Zedi!:yeah:

THE_MASK

05-14-11, 05:19 PM

Tanker wreck placed on sea floor with the objects editor . Further testing .
I thought i collided with it but i must have been dreaming .
[Object 1]
File=data\Terrain\Locations\CustomAreas\ship wrecks\wreck1.GR2
Long=963452.000000
Lat=6444689.000000
Height=-0.621918
Rot=0.000000
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6010/wreck.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/wreck.jpg/)

stoianm

05-14-11, 05:23 PM

Tanker wreck placed on sea floor with the objects editor . Further testing .
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6010/wreck.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/wreck.jpg/)

awsome... so you want to put areas where we will have wrecks... very nice:DL

Trevally.

05-14-11, 05:28 PM

Blockships:yeah:

LtzS_Petersen

05-14-11, 06:09 PM

How can i make some changes in the Chart?
I saw very often some stranded Ships, an really enjoy at the Watch to think about whats happen with the her. For Instance at the Entrance of the Red Sea, there are lay several Ships from different Ages, stranded and rusting, some cargo derricks crashed to the Deck and you can see some Paint of the Times, where it was a proud seegoing Ship. It was very romantic, if you know what i mean. So Wrecks are a really nice Enrichment for SH5.
Nice work!

THE_MASK

05-14-11, 06:17 PM

Only gr2 files at this stage , sucks .

TheDarkWraith

05-14-11, 06:23 PM

Only gr2 files at this stage , sucks .

What do you mean by only GR2 files?

THE_MASK

05-14-11, 06:41 PM

What do you mean by only GR2 files?
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6861/loadu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/loadu.jpg/)

Zedi

05-14-11, 07:25 PM

Brilliant, its exactly what I needed for Scapa and the mission there! :yeah:

THE_MASK

05-14-11, 07:39 PM

Brilliant, its exactly what I needed for Scapa and the mission there! :yeah:Nothing is tested yet like does it show up in the campaign ? Placed in a mission and will test in a campaign etc .

TheDarkWraith

05-14-11, 07:41 PM

Nothing is tested yet like does it show up in the campaign ? Placed in a mission and will test in a campaign etc .

what happens if you run into the obstacle? If you let say 30 minutes pass by does the unit still stay or does it sink into the abyss? Do they take damage from shells/torpedoes? Looking to ensure no CTDs happen from things people will try.

THE_MASK

05-14-11, 07:58 PM

what happens if you run into the obstacle? If you let say 30 minutes pass by does the unit still stay or does it sink into the abyss? Do they take damage from shells/torpedoes? Looking to ensure no CTDs happen from things people will try.Good questions , some testing i guess . Its placed as a terrain object but who knows until its tested .

stoianm

05-15-11, 12:55 AM

Good questions , some testing i guess . Its placed as a terrain object but who knows until its tested .
Somebody who made missions for sh3 or sh4 told me that when he tryied to put wreks he had often ctds... so i think we must to test like you said:yep:

THE_MASK

05-15-11, 01:49 AM

Somebody who made missions for sh3 or sh4 told me that when he tryied to put wreks he had often ctds... so i think we must to test like you said:yep:sh3/4 dont have in house editors .

stoianm

05-15-11, 01:51 AM

sh3/4 dont have in house editors .
have no ideea... never playied sh3 or sh4 and i dunno his structure... he told me that when he tryied to put wrecks on missions he had ctds

Zedi

05-15-11, 02:51 AM

Nothing is tested yet like does it show up in the campaign ? Placed in a mission and will test in a campaign etc .

Is just what I badly need for Scapa area so Im counting on your success to work out these wrecks. How these unit are placed on map if they are terrain objects? :06:

THE_MASK

05-15-11, 03:50 AM

Is just what I badly need for Scapa area so Im counting on your success to work out these wrecks. How these unit are placed on map if they are terrain objects? :06:I just use a mission and use TDW mission start map . The long/lat etc is saved in data/Terrain/locations/custom areas/map objects . They are in the campaign also because its terrain object .

[Object 1]
File=data\Terrain\Locations\CustomAreas\ship wrecks\wreck1.GR2 I made this folder
Long=963452.000000
Lat=6444689.000000
Height=-0.621918
Rot=0.000000

Zedi

05-15-11, 04:28 AM

When done, can you please place the wrecks around Scapa same as the original block ships were placed so I can add it to the campaign? Maybe you can also build up the Churchill's barrier in Scapa after Priens raid...

LtzS_Petersen

05-21-11, 11:14 AM

Are there something News with the Buoys?
http://www.abload.de/img/tonnentufb.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=tonnentufb.jpg)
If i can help with it, i would. I dont know how, but it will be a lot of work, if i think at the Kiel Canal for instance. :o

Zedi

05-21-11, 12:03 PM

Trevally is working on this part, still a lot of work to do.

LtzS_Petersen

05-21-11, 01:25 PM

Thanks for the Info, yes, it will be a lot of work. :salute:

The General

05-23-11, 10:25 AM

What it should sound like:

http://youtu.be/jz1VCgCONZM

Zedi

05-23-11, 12:08 PM

What it should sound like:

http://youtu.be/jz1VCgCONZM

Its exactly how it sounds right now thanks to a sdl made by Stoian, but there will be a lot of compatibility problems, FX is on top of the list.

gap

05-23-11, 03:36 PM

Its exactly how it sounds right now thanks to a sdl made by Stoian, but there will be a lot of compatibility problems, FX is on top of the list.

@ Zedi

is the new sound's volume okay?
those wav files were created by me on the base of a short video posted in this thread, but it seems that their volume was a bit too low in game. I don't know if in the meanwhile stoianm himself managed to amplify their volume without distorting them, but I think he was waiting for me to do it.
If so, get in touch with me and I will send to you the reworked wav's.

Zedi

05-23-11, 03:59 PM

Ye, the sound is ok. I can hear them from a long distance, its a really cool feature. But making the sdl compatible with another mods will be a pain.. I dont even wanna think about.

THE_MASK

05-23-11, 04:43 PM

Zedi

05-23-11, 05:13 PM

The best i could come up with is altering the terrain with the editor in certain spots where sandbanks are shown in google earth . Create small land protrusions and texture them to look like rocks etc jutting out of the water .

Any screenshots? No reason to work out the whole map, but the player bases and some of the major ports. Scapa badly needs a redesign, the water is just too shallow and ships inside have a hard time to navigate. Same apply for Kiel. If you have these areas worked out, send me some of your work so I can place it in the campaign and adjust the buoys and traffic.

THE_MASK

05-23-11, 05:28 PM

Still working a few things out .

stoianm

05-24-11, 05:55 AM

@ Zedi

is the new sound's volume okay?
those wav files were created by me on the base of a short video posted in this thread, but it seems that their volume was a bit too low in game. I don't know if in the meanwhile stoianm himself managed to amplify their volume without distorting them, but I think he was waiting for me to do it.
If so, get in touch with me and I will send to you the reworked wav's.
The sounds are from that original mod from sh3... i just increased the waves and i created the entries on the sh file... the ones made by you i did not used because when i tryied to increase the sound the wave was distorsionated... and you were outside for long time.... so you said you fixed in meantime?

LtzS_Petersen

05-31-11, 01:31 PM

After my fourth Turn in SH5 i would propose to make the Yellow Buoys red/white with Bell, to use it as Approaching Buoy for the Ports. I think it is easy to make with a new Skin. :88) But i dont know...

http://www.abload.de/img/29592977pli.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=29592977pli.jpg)

So you can approach the Seaway to the Harbour also in Fog (if you near enough to the Bell) and move Buoy to Buoy in the Port. :D
They were layed single 2-5 nautical Miles before the Beginning of the Approach, so you can say o.k., Approaching Buoy athward, now its the Course in the Port 153° for instance.

The Black/Yellow Buoys i would use as Danger Buoys, cause the Yellow Buoys are more used to limit a prohibited Area and are not so important for the Navigation, cause they are placed outside the regular Seaways.

Zedi

05-31-11, 01:50 PM

After my fourth Turn in SH5 i would propose to make the Yellow Buoys red/white with Bell, to use it as Approaching Buoy for the Ports. I think it is easy to make with a new Skin. :88) But i dont know...

....

Thats correct, its easy to change the skin and the yellow buoys are not used now as we use the orange for danger areas.

But its kinda hard to follow you with this idea. Right now the buoys are placed mostly outside the port, in harbors. There is no complicated navigation in the existing ports/harbors, except Norway. There we have set the green, red and orange buoys as guide buoys from the entrance in the fjords up to the port. So even in heavy fog and using real nav, you cant miss Bergen for example.

Trevally is working now on placing buoys around Suez and Panama, but the channels are to narrow to use buoys, so they are used only as guide to the entrance in the channel. Anyway, its up to Trevally, he is mastering the buoys... I can make the skin part if needed.

Trevally.

05-31-11, 02:06 PM

Hi LtzS_Petersen,

I am happy that someone has an interest in the nav buoys.:up:

If we could get new skins for the buoys - these are the ones i would wish for.

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9110/lateralwq.jpg

I had many situations where port and starboard junction buoys would have been used:up:

EDIT: Approaching Buoys would be nice too :)

Rongel

05-31-11, 02:31 PM

I really saw the bouys for the first time when testing Zedis Total Germany campaing (unreleased work in progress version). So I can't say if that is the current state or not. Anyway, I thought that the colours were too bright, well too saturated to be exact. The sound was nice, but it was too loud. Aproaching Kiel canal sounded like army of tinkerbells. So the sound needs to be not so frequent and I would also reduce the 3D audio range.

But I really like them still, a very good addition to the game!

Zedi

05-31-11, 02:44 PM

If Stoian wanna rename & duplicate the yellow buoy, I can make the 2 new skins. Hope he can adjust a bit more the sound too as I agree with Rongel.. is too much noise when sailing near them.

LtzS_Petersen

05-31-11, 03:02 PM

Hehe, the Navigation in Norway is difficould, but i never miss a Port there. :D
The Fjords are very deep and save, except some dangerous Stones. I like the Fjords more than the Northsea Coast, it was fun to drive with 36Knots there.

Here an Example what i mean with the Buoy:
http://www.abload.de/img/ansteuerungfehmarnsundog5o.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=ansteuerungfehmarnsundog5o.jpg)

The Red/White mark the Begin of a Seaway or Approach, you can use it to take direct Course on it (without Ramming please) and when passing steer the course trough the Buoys.

@Zedi: Buoys are important for the safe Approach in the Harbours, in the Port you have a Pilot and guaranteed Depths.
Here an Example from the Weser, the Approach to Wilhelmshaven, it is a really difficoult Way due to its shallow and changing Sands, not so easy like in SH5.
http://www.abload.de/img/aanwil770q.gif (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=aanwil770q.gif)
Similar for the whole Northsea-Coast.

@Trevally: The Junction Buoys mark a secondary Seaway, Port Junction Buoy is the Main Starbord Buoy and the first Port Buoy of a Secondary Seaway. Could be used for the Kiel Channel Approach in the Elbe-Main Way for instance. But red/white i think its more important.
As far as i know, there are only four different Buoys available?

Zedi

05-31-11, 03:15 PM

...
As far as i know, there are only four different Buoys available?

Now. We had like 8 or more, but we had no use for them.

Anyway, do not forget.. we are talking about ww2 here and not present days. We are using buoys mostly for spice up the game, but in war time a harbor should not look like its Christmas. We are already at the limit of realism/historical accuracy...

Trevally.

05-31-11, 03:17 PM

@Trevally: The Junction Buoys mark a secondary Seaway, Port Junction Buoy is the Main Starbord Buoy and the first Port Buoy of a Secondary Seaway. Could be used for the Kiel Channel Approach in the Elbe-Main Way for instance. But red/white i think its more important

There are a lot or areas where the approach to a harbour had a seaway options. Many small islands etc where there was an obvious route and a secondary.

The approach markers would be nice but im sorry to say that you will have no problems finding the safe seaway. The reason for this is that the buoys themselves cause a navigation hazard to AI ships:D. Seaways where getting choked due to traffic toing and froing to avoid them.
This has had the result that we have had to place the buoys a LOT further apart (wide channels) to stop this.
In areas where there is little traffic, I have marked (deep) channels where they are a lot closer together.

LtzS_Petersen

05-31-11, 03:31 PM

Hehe, thats o.k., it is a big Work for a whole Authority, but to much for a single Person.
No, it must be 100% correct, but it will be nice to see a Harbour Approach with some Buoys. And in War Times there were sure a small amount of it, but i didnt found anything, except a Book for 150 Euros. :o
We have no such dangerous Waters in SH5, so a small number of Buoys are o.k. and nice to see. And make me happy. :ahoy:
I cannot make it by myself, i can give only Suggestions.

Edit: @Trevally: O.k., that is a Thing what i live with since Destroyer Command. :D N.p., when i see the Ships acting near Wilhelmshaven i think there was nothing happen with the AI since the old Times. Nothing doing.

Zedi

05-31-11, 03:38 PM

Trevally, thats not a problem. I worked many hours today to rework the common/taskforce/uboat.mis to reroute the traffic so the ships will not collide with them. But im concerned about the realism and historical accuracy because this is the main goal with this campaign.

Trevally.

05-31-11, 04:06 PM

Zedi

05-31-11, 05:34 PM

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4812/buoys.jpg

Here we can see the current setup. the bouys are very close to the shore rather than marking the deep channel.

@Zedi - these are the new layers showing in this image. They now are more compact. Do you think i can tighten the buoys without choking?

Yes, I cam reduce the nodes radius and optimize the path.. but not much in Norway.. those fjords are pretty tight already. I dont recognize this place shown in ur screen, but there is plenty of space left on the sides.

THE_MASK

08-01-11, 05:35 PM

The buoy lights shine thru objects like crew etc . There must be a fix .

Wolfstriked

08-01-11, 07:45 PM

The buoy lights shine thru objects like crew etc . There must be a fix .

First off really kool stuff going on for SH5 and sad that community of great talent is divided though.

I found this for SH3 and it might give you idea???

ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Volume_2/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/ANVART/HaloNotVisibleThroughBody.rar

ETsd4

08-16-11, 08:20 PM

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4812/buoys.jpg

Here we can see the current setup. the bouys are very close to the shore rather than marking the deep channel.

Where is that place?

TheDarkWraith

08-16-11, 09:08 PM

Any one know how to stop the light bouys from shining thru other objects .
Anyone , TDW , Devs , anyone . Is there anyone here , hello .

Adjusting DepthBias or DepthTestBias in the FPG (or PG if that's what it uses) would probably do it. Pure speculation on my part.

THE_MASK

08-16-11, 11:13 PM

Thanks TDW . I can really do it if i try .
I will upload the new bouys to Trevally for his OH2 hotfix .
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3461/bouylightfixed.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/bouylightfixed.jpg/)

ETsd4

08-17-11, 01:12 AM

Lovely photo.
And thxs for update/bugfixing the buoys.

THE_MASK

08-17-11, 06:47 AM

Luckily i fixed the bouys . I decided to take on the task of raiding scapa but had to get back to kiel for resupply . It was at night and light fog , pitch black . I couldnt see the crew on deck of my sub it was that dark . All i could see were navigation bouys thru the fog as i was entering Kiel . I would have had to wait for first light as the harbor pilot didnt show and i cannot waist any time if i am going to make the moon and tides for the scapa raid .

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4273/kielnight.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/kielnight.jpg/)
Leaving kiel to raid scapa
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3774/kielmorning.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/kielmorning.jpg/)