A dream is arising!

[Hans Witteman]

Hi fellow shipmates,

How would you like to see a totally new games with a fully dynamic campaign never before seen in any game covering all the theaters of u-boat warfare ex:

*Ability to have a Kaleun starting in u-boat scool with training ability that are really adding to gameplay.

*Ability to walk everywhere you please on the dock area like having a beer in a tavern with fellow shipmates, having a brawl in bar, playing card etc

*Developing your character which decision impact on the storyline.

*State of the art models of u-boat and ships and crew, building totally historically accurate , to recreate true era atmosphere.

*Accurate sea behavior and real weather effect with beautiful environment.

* Realistic 3d damage models with great flooding behavior and repair system.

* A satisfying and gruesome experienced when your boat is gliding to the bottom with your crew fighting the flooding to the bitter end.

Sound like a dream come true eh!

You all know that game here in Montreal are one of our major industry and we have plenty of talented folks willing to get their hands dirty on such endeavor.

A good friend of mine is a senior C++ programmer with a lot of experienced on game design and we are both u-boat and historic nutters:up:

In a word we are starting to seriously thinking of making the ultimate sub simulation.

We all know the amount of work that will be required to achieved this ambitious project, the decision is not officially taken yet but after my mod is release thing will probably go on fast forward and we will be recruiting more talented folks to achieve this dream of the ultimate sub simulation.

We will just like to have your different opinions on what would you like to see in your vision of the ultimate sub simulation?

Some testing have already begun in Unity 3D it is a free game engine available on the web.

Don't be shy and express even your most goofy ideas.

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

:hmmm:

[Hans Witteman]

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

:hmmm:

You have all the right to be skeptical but you definably not read my thread carefully my friend i am in the business since the 3ds max version on DOS.

I have been teaching game design for 5 years my friend programmer have 12 years of experience in C++ and like i say the game engine that i mention in the thread you obviously didn't read at all say Unity 3D the full license is about 1500,00 gran so you are a cheap fellow saying my grand mother worth only 1500 gran hummm you should be affraid of her she is reputed to haunt mockers :har:

If you have said that like 2 or 3 years ago i would have agree a 100 % with you but thing are evolving fast in the game industry and now it is possible.

And since i am experienced in the field i am not foolish enough to think it would be release this summer hum!

And i already mention in the thread that our decision is not taking yet another proof you are a selective reader.

We have already people interested who are experience in the field but like i say we are only gathering opinions from expert players to form our idea on the road to take.

Best regards Hans

[Magic1111]

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

:hmmm:

Hi Damo !

Very good words Damo, :up: and sorry Hans, but this is point-for-point my opinion ! ;)

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[Hans Witteman]

Another point that is tempting me to push this project forward is that even the most professionals game studio seem to not care about some very simple fact in design like the scale of texture!

This still baffle me when you look at brick on wall. pavement, grass you named it the scale is always disproportionate.

Game characters that look like stiff constipated muppets.

Proof that programmers should never attempt at design and vice versa

Best regards Hans

[TheDarkWraith]

The amount of resources and time needed from a small group of modders is unimaginable if one wanted to make an ultimate sim. Do you have a mathematician who is specialized in psychics AND who can program those into the sim? I could go on and on about other 'specialized' items needing programming but the point is made.

It is good to dream but reality causes you to wake up too soon from it :yep:

Wish you the best in your endeavor.

There was a group that tried making a submarine sim some years ago....can't remember the name of it.....I think they are still working on it. Point is it's been years they have been working on it and it's not finished yet. A major production studio can undertake a project like this in about a year or less time frame.

:salute:

[Hans Witteman]

Hi Damo !

Very good words Damo, :up: and sorry Hans, but this is point-for-point my opinion ! ;)

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

Hi mate,

I understand but what i don't understand is that none of you guys seem to have carefully read the first thread i didn't make any kind of promised .

As i see it, it is a crime here to ask for gamer opinions.

I won't request anything more and close this thread asap

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

Oh don't do that. I have an ever-growing list of things I think are essential to a proper subsim, and If I ever have the kind of money needed to hire the people to do it I will.

But I'm glad to help any way I can.

[Hans Witteman]

The amount of resources and time needed from a small group of modders is unimaginable if one wanted to make an ultimate sim. Do you have a mathematician who is specialized in psychics AND who can program those into the sim? I could go on and on about other 'specialized' items needing programming but the point is made.

It is good to dream but reality causes you to wake up too soon from it :yep:

Wish you the best in your endeavor.

There was a group that tried making a submarine sim some years ago....can't remember the name of it.....I think they are still working on it. Point is it's been years they have been working on it and it's not finished yet. A major production studio can undertake a project like this in about a year or less time frame.

:salute:

Hi Dark,

When i first wrote this thread do people really think i didn't analyze all the aspect involve in such an endeavor?

Of course i did and my programmer friend is already experience in physic coding.

And what most team failed to do in my own opinion is to get organized
and set clearly each one task in the pipeline.

Another point is sometime related to the age of the team the younger you are the less realistic you are and sometime immature i know i was 20 a couple years ago:har:

I am 45 years old and i am not talking without knowing just to make sure everyone noticed it!

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

Pardon me, I didn't intend on insulting you or your Grandmother, but seriously, what you are proposing is pretty far fetched, but then so was landing on the moon (and please, no conspiracy theorists please...). I'm not a selective reader, I was just in a hurry to eat my dinner so didn't word my post adequately. I feel a little hostility in your answer (only a little) which is something you need to get on top of as you'll more than likely face a few more disbelievers in time that will ask you a few more questions than I.

I've actually taken some time to look up the game engine and its site and wonder if you would be planning to release commercially or as a free to all software package? Given that you will need to pay out an initial $1500 for the pro version of the engine, would you need to pay additional fees to release the game commercially using someone elses engine? I would expect so. Also, by taking on other developers, you would need to reward them financially too if there's to be a commercial release, and if it's not to be commercial, they are effectively working in their free time for nothing, which, going back to the example of the flight sims in my original post, causes people to join and jump ship at inopportune moments leaving unfinished work that someone new then has to pick up mid flow, decipher, and finish.

All I'm saying is that it all sounds to me like a pipedream, a fanciful vision of what you believe you can do and the first instant that someone questions your vision you go a bit rude. If me being skeptical makes you more determined to prove me wrong then good, it means I've had a positive influence on you and your ambition, I don't seek to belittle you or to question your or your associates abilities.

The fact of the matter is, I've seen this kind of thing promised many times, and each time I made a similar post which kind of received the same response. We have a saying here in the UK; 'The proof is in the pudding'. In all the threads like this I've responded to, not one of them has delivered a working title onto my hard drive and until they do, I will always respond with skepticism.

But hand on heart Hans, I hope you prove me wrong. Now there's a mission for you. :up:

[Hans Witteman]

Pardon me, I didn't intend on insulting you or your Grandmother, but seriously, what you are proposing is pretty far fetched, but then so was landing on the moon (and please, no conspiracy theorists please...). I'm not a selective reader, I was just in a hurry to eat my dinner so didn't word my post adequately. I feel a little hostility in your answer (only a little) which is something you need to get on top of as you'll more than likely face a few more disbelievers in time that will ask you a few more questions than I.

I've actually taken some time to look up the game engine and its site and wonder if you would be planning to release commercially or as a free to all software package? Given that you will need to pay out an initial $1500 for the pro version of the engine, would you need to pay additional fees to release the game commercially using someone elses engine? I would expect so. Also, by taking on other developers, you would need to reward them financially too if there's to be a commercial release, and if it's not to be commercial, they are effectively working in their free time for nothing, which, going back to the example of the flight sims in my original post, causes people to join and jump ship at inopportune moments leaving unfinished work that someone new then has to pick up mid flow, decipher, and finish.

All I'm saying is that it all sounds to me like a pipedream, a fanciful vision of what you believe you can do and the first instant that someone questions your vision you go a bit rude. If me being skeptical makes you more determined to prove me wrong then good, it means I've had a positive influence on you and your ambition, I don't seek to belittle you or to question your or your associates abilities.

The fact of the matter is, I've seen this kind of thing promised many times, and each time I made a similar post which kind of received the same response. We have a saying here in the UK; 'The proof is in the pudding'. In all the threads like this I've responded to, not one of them has delivered a working title onto my hard drive and until they do, I will always respond with skepticism.

But hand on heart Hans, I hope you prove me wrong. Now there's a mission for you. :up:

Hi again,

I am sorry i am not rude at all it is just because even in this new reply you insist to mention i promised something again go read the top thread and tell me where i promised something please do that and after that we can have a serious respectful conversation.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

What i was hopping for that thread is only to get the experts player to say what are there vision of the perfect sim i should have formulated otherwise i think:hmmm:

[Hans Witteman]

Hi again gentleman's

Anybody know how to deleted a thread??

[Damo]

So basically the thread title 'A dream is arising' should be changed to 'A dream has been dreamt, but for now it must remain a dream'. The thread title, albeit through loss in translation, points me to believe that this thing is 'in the works' so to speak when it patently is not, and may never be. Plus it's in the mods workshop section, where we talk about 'mods' not dreams. Maybe it would have been better put in the SH3 forum, where all the other 'What would you like to see in your perfect subsim?' go.

No, this thread is designed to create hype for what 'may' become a reality that no one else has ever managed to do. If you wanted to avoid ridicule or disbelief you should have waited until you had some concrete foundations on which to say 'Ok, so I've done this, and I'm hoping to build it into this'. Right now it's pure speculation and doesn't 'fit' with the rest of the threads in this particular forum section.

Edit: And Hans, don't ask for the thread to be deleted, like I said before about your will to succeed, come back here everyday and read this thread and use it to spur you on to make your dream a reality.

With all due respect man.

[Hans Witteman]

So basically the thread title 'A dream is arising' should be changed to 'A dream has been dreamt, but for now it must remain a dream'. The thread title, albeit through loss in translation, points me to believe that this thing is 'in the works' so to speak when it patently is not, and may never be. Plus it's in the mods workshop section, where we talk about 'mods' not dreams. Maybe it would have been better put in the SH3 forum, where all the other 'What would you like to see in your perfect subsim?' go.

No, this thread is designed to create hype for what 'may' become a reality that no one else has ever managed to do. If you wanted to avoid ridicule or disbelief you should have waited until you had some concrete foundations on which to say 'Ok, so I've done this, and I'm hoping to build it into this'. Right now it's pure speculation and doesn't 'fit' with the rest of the threads in this particular forum section.

Hi again.

You won and your are still not happy with it i wonder who the rude person over here case dismiss.

I now feel like i am not welcome over here anymore thank mate.

Going back to what i do best modeling

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

And please can an OP erased my thread since i made an horrible mistake hoping just to get idea!

[Damo]

You think this is about 'winning'??! And you're 45? This is the most helpful and friendly community I know, and people do their best to share knowledge and help others. You may not have English as your first language (am I right?) so I'll understand your lack of understanding, I am not rude, I am not confrontational, but I AM a realist, some people can't separate the three. Gamers are a demanding bunch, if you can't take a little probing into your plans then there is no hope for you as a developer. Sorry I had to say that.

[Hans Witteman]

You think this is about 'winning'??! And you're 45? This is the most helpful and friendly community I know, and people do their best to share knowledge and help others. You may not have English as your first language (am I right?) so I'll understand your lack of understanding, I am not rude, I am not confrontational, but I AM a realist, some people can't separate the three. Gamers are a demanding bunch, if you can't take a little probing into your plans then there is no hope for you as a developer. Sorry I had to say that.

Hi again,

I was promising nothing and was just hoping to get some idea take it as creative conversation to orient our decision whether we will go or not go for it. And the only thing i have is a barrage of negativity from all.

I am no fool and i don't think that i am an inexperienced guy i was teaching game design for 5 years and i have 15 years to back it, was gaming before a lot where still in the idea of their mothers though.

So i am no beginner and deserved a little bit more respect when i am simply trying to get a creative discussion.

Anyway i can feel animosity from you toward me since the first reply so i think i should just forget about it and move on to more productive endeavor.

Best Regards Hans

[Damo]

Look Hans, you totally got this wrong. Not once have I questioned your individual ability in the areas of gaming, game design and everything in between. I have however, picked up on the issues that ALL developers face when creating a new title, and put them to you in a way that assumes this project is a possibility. But you now say that it's not, nothing's promised and due to me and my demanding ways you're going to abandon it altogether.

Well someone shoot me.... :nope:

All I can do is apologise to you personally, for any misunderstanding that may have arisen from the thread title, the details that you asked us to imagine being in a new great subsim that you suggested may be possible with the help of your friend and a few hired helps. I also take back any dorogatory comments about you selling your Grandmother to fulfill your dreams as this was childish and I should never use common sayings like that in any future posts. I would also like to apologise to the community for killing dead a project (which isn't a project (oh yeah, got it)), within 2 hours of it's thread being posted in the (seemingly) wrong forum.

I am to blame for this threads rapid decline into farce, finger pointing and subsequent death. And I sincerely, without question apologise to everyone who I dragged down with it.

Job done.

Now the serious version.

I am sorry Hans, it was not my intention to bring us to this point. I have seen your work on the type II and I actually use your remodelled torpedoes which are fantastic btw. I DO NOT doubt your ability, and just like everyone else here that puts in the hours to provide us gamers with a free addon to improve our game, I salute you, I love you, I respect you.

And finally, learn to follow your dreams, despite what anyone says. Again, I'm sorry.

:salute:

[BUKER]

Allow me to express my humble opinion.
Hans, do not worry about the criticism!
I do not know about other countries, but in Russia you have many fans.
They are waiting for your new works!
The fact that you know how to make you prove your mod Torpedo_HAHD version 1.0.
Better torpedoes in the game just never happened!
Unfortunately, I can not help you in programming, but always ready to support your voice.

I am confident that you will succeed.:yeah:

[Hans Witteman]

Look Hans, you totally got this wrong. Not once have I questioned your individual ability in the areas of gaming, game design and everything in between. I have however, picked up on the issues that ALL developers face when creating a new title, and put them to you in a way that assumes this project is a possibility. But you now say that it's not, nothing's promised and due to me and my demanding ways you're going to abandon it altogether.

Well someone shoot me.... :nope:

All I can do is apologise to you personally, for any misunderstanding that may have arisen from the thread title, the details that you asked us to imagine being in a new great subsim that you suggested may be possible with the help of your friend and a few hired helps. I also take back any dorogatory comments about you selling your Grandmother to fulfill your dreams as this was childish and I should never use common sayings like that in any future posts. I would also like to apologise to the community for killing dead a project (which isn't a project (oh yeah, got it)), within 2 hours of it's thread being posted in the (seemingly) wrong forum.

I am to blame for this threads rapid decline into farce, finger pointing and subsequent death. And I sincerely, without question apologise to everyone who I dragged down with it.

Job done.

Now the serious version.

I am sorry Hans, it was not my intention to bring us to this point. I have seen your work on the type II and I actually use your remodelled torpedoes which are fantastic btw. I DO NOT doubt your ability, and just like everyone else here that puts in the hours to provide us gamers with a free addon to improve our game, I salute you, I love you, I respect you.

And finally, learn to follow your dreams, despite what anyone says. Again, I'm sorry.

:salute:

Hi Damo.

I was truly not angry about you i was just in shock because i was not expecting such a barrage of negativity and believe me i am no wishful thinking nutter:O:

You don't need to apologize at all i should because i start to behave like a teenager on mountaindew:har:

But all that idea of building a sim as start already 2 years ago and we have read a lot about it from experienced indy game developers and many lecture on the pro and con on that ambitious project.

My friend programmer has made complete sea model in C++ and he made levels in know commercials titles.

Everything is good on my side now mate sorry if i was acting as a moron i am only a damn human like all of us!

But like you say i already pm Hitman to deleted this thread and will come back at a later stage with a complete demo of the sea and ships behavior.

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

Ahh, we just got lost in translation dude, last thing I want is an enemy here, after all, they all have torpedoes!! :o

I wish I could list all the flight sim threads that I mentioned earlier just so you can see where I'm coming from, but I think we've done enough point making for one day.

Whatever happens, it never hurts to have a dream and if you can bring it to a reality, then kudos to you. I never said it wasn't possible, just that it's not easy to realize and few have succeeded.

So sincerely from me, good luck.

[Hans Witteman]

Ahh, we just got lost in translation dude, last thing I want is an enemy here, after all, they all have torpedoes!! :o

I wish I could list all the flight sim threads that I mentioned earlier just so you can see where I'm coming from, but I think we've done enough point making for one day.

Whatever happens, it never hurts to have a dream and if you can bring it to a reality, then kudos to you. I never said it wasn't possible, just that it's not easy to realize and few have succeeded.

So sincerely from me, good luck.

Hi mate,

At least you make me realize how much even at 45 we can still be moron and over react emotively.

But you know with the state of the world right now the only thing we have left is our dream and sometime only sometime they get true but it is enough to drive human to achieve the impossible!

Just look at beer there is nothing closer to perfection than that:rock:

Cheers to all

[Damo]

Just look at beer there is nothing closer to perfection than that:rock:


Sorry to do this to you Hans, but I have to disagree.... LOL

Your statement is true up to a point, that point being when fat ugly women start to look like Claudia Schiffer...

:nope: :har:

[Reece]

There is nothing wrong with having a dream, I for one certainly hope it becomes a reality, all the best on your adventure!:yep:

[Hans Witteman]

Sorry to do this to you Hans, but I have to disagree.... LOL

Your statement is true up to a point, that point being when fat ugly women start to look like Claudia Schiffer...

:nope: :har:

:har:

[BUKER]

You do not want to return to the topic of discussion?

[Hans Witteman]

There is nothing wrong with having a dream, I for one certainly hope it becomes a reality, all the best on your adventure!:yep:

Thank Reece,

I was just starting to take the pulse because i am no fool and i know starting this would mean a least 4 to 5 years at spare time maybe a little bit faster if we could get some others talented folks to join and i know from experienced on another team i join in the past on a game name Guardians of Farok that a team should not be more than 6 to 8 peoples to keep synergy between every part of the pipeline.

I myself can model and texture at light speed with precision after 15 years you start to have your own worflow and thing get done pretty fast as an example if you look at the Langer Heinrich crane on video 4 how much time do you guess i put on the modeling plus texturing??

It took me 9 hours this include the custom unwrap process because i always do custom unwrap of my model to control where i will put higher detailing.

Damo made a very good point to, i was just to emotively involve and i over react but after that i felt that he was just trying to help and give warning that a broken dream is more painful than one that never was born.

All is good now maybe i should be more careful the way i try to get idea of what to advoid and what to push forward if we should start that mamoth task.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

You do not want to return to the topic of discussion?

Hi mate,

Sure go ahead before Hitman delete it:haha:

I am all ear my friend just trying yo know what experienced subsimer absolutely don't want to see in a sub simulator and what they would sale their soul to have in.

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

*Accurate sea behavior and real weather effect with beautiful environment.


My idea of accurate sea behavior includes:

tides
currents
thermal layers
accurate sea floor
rouge waves
accurate trough to crest distance

I don't care so much about how it looks, as long as it is accurate :yep:

[Reece]

Basically I would like to see something like SH3 but with better graphics, UBI's big mistake was patching up SH3 including all the old bugs and introducing new bugs into SH4, then patching this including the old bugs and introducing new ones in SH5, A whole new game including engine should have been done!:yep: so a new game with SHIII/GWX background, new graphics engine and completely moddable would be near perfect!:yeah: (Now that's a dream!:smug:)

[Hans Witteman]

Basically I would like to see something like SH3 but with better graphics, UBI's big mistake was patching up SH3 including all the old bugs and introducing new bugs into SH4, then patching this including the old bugs and introducing new ones in SH5, A whole new game including engine should have been done!:yep: so a new game with SHIII/GWX background, new graphics engine and completely moddable would be near perfect!:yeah: (Now that's a dream!:smug:)

Hi Reece,

Totally agree with you my friend that what driving me nut to do it with others talented fellows as a mention earlier there is also a complete open source program call Ogre 3D this one is truly free i read the license entirely.

A game name Venetica was recently release with it and many others know titles, the only thing you need to know C++ to use it.

My programmer buddy is having a look at the code structure to see wich game engine will be the easiest for him to work with.

Best regards Hans

[BUKER]

*State of the art models of u-boat and ships and crew, building totally historically accurate , to recreate true era atmosphere.

*Accurate sea behavior and real weather effect with beautiful environment.

* Realistic 3d damage models with great flooding behavior and repair system.

* A satisfying and gruesome experienced when your boat is gliding to the bottom with your crew fighting the flooding to the bitter end.

Sound like a dream come true eh!


Hans

I chose the best moments of your dreams.
Plus, add quality and distinction of explosions.

But the main thing is new and quality models of submarines..:wah::wah:

[Hans Witteman]

Hans

I chose the best moments of your dreams.
Plus, add quality and distinction of explosions.

But the main thing is new and quality models of submarines..:wah::wah:

Hi Buker,

Special effect are another field that i have in my deck of card and if we ever proceed with that crazy titanic task rest assure that i will do it with the same level of quality of my 3d models,

Best regards Hans

[BUKER]

Hi Buker,

Special effect are another field that i have in my deck of card and if we ever proceed with that crazy titanic task rest assure that i will do it with the same level of quality of my 3d models,

Best regards Hans
Hans,

Thank you for your answers!
I believe that you are a magician and all your dreams come true!:):rock::rock:

[Hans Witteman]

Hans,

Thank you for your answers!
I believe that you are a magician and all your dreams come true!:):rock::rock:

Hi mate,

You are very kind my friend but take in mind that if we ever start that game it is going to be far longer than a mod, i myself could have a good probability of visiting Valhalla before i see the end of it but i am sure that the rest of our eventual team would finish it as a tribute to me :har:

But you know my father use to tell me that if you always try to stay away from your dream they will catch you on later as recurrent nightmares.

RIP Dad he was a soldier of the Canadian force in ww2

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Hi again fellows shipmates,

I forgot to mention that i already have ton of assets like models fully rig and texture of crews with all the kriegmarine correct uniforms. I also have standard wermacht soldiers and props like weapons almost all the standard wermacht weaponry, flak artillery models etc

I have vehicle you saw the Opel but i have a Kubelwagen, BMW R75 bike, Tiger tank, a Messerschmidt bf 109 E, Heinkel 111 p with full crew and gear, a spitfire and a Lancaster.

I got a lot of ww2 historic building and of course a lot of stuff related to u-boat.

Let's not forget that art asset are always the longest part of a game pipeline.

So i am not starting from scratch i build all those models in the past 5 years as a personal project.

Some of those models are high res but you saw the Opel and it took me about half an afternoon to convert it to fit in game.

I also have ton of reference in book and article from everywhere.

And best of all i am a complete 3d historical nutter with absolutely no kind of social life at all that take all is spare time doing nut stuff like modding:har:

I think if i found the right people to team with me that this dream can become reality.

Best regards Hans

[fitzcarraldo]

I like the idea of a new subsim....s-u-b-s-i-m, not a game. A German U-boat simulator, with AI crew (no droids), realistic environment (rain, snow, winds, thermal layers, currents...). A realistic maneuvering of the boat: independent engines, complete instrumental, failures, sabotage...

For the crew I like the AI of the type of the Close Combat series: realistic fatigue, moral (do you see Johann the Phantom in "Das Boot"? That fear, anxiety, desperation...). Also I like a crew making a moutiny...I like great comunications (a radio totally operative, for send messages and obtain responses), and a dynamic storyline for the captain (I think in the "campaign" of F1 2010, with interactive carachters, for example, Doenitz and AH for some insults....).

Good...A dream. It´s a great and hard work; all the luck in the adventure, Hans!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Hans Witteman]

My idea of accurate sea behavior includes:

tides
currents
thermal layers
accurate sea floor
rouge waves
accurate trough to crest distance

I don't care so much about how it looks, as long as it is accurate :yep:

Hi mate,

According to my programmer buddy :

tides: possible but not easy

current : possible but unnecessary and to difficult for little add on gameplay

thermal layers : possible without problem but to achieve perfectly would need lines of code.

Accurate seafloor : not possible so far no cpu could cope with that but something that look better than sh5 really possible.

rough wave : not sure exactly what you mean but if you are talking of ship behavior in rough wave he said possible

accurate trough to crest distance : possible to a certain point

To sum it all a lot of sea behavior could be achieve with code but nothing will be perfect like in any other simulation out there, maybe in a 100 years if we are still on the planet as a race.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

I like the idea of a new subsim....s-u-b-s-i-m, not a game. A German U-boat simulator, with AI crew (no droids), realistic environment (rain, snow, winds, thermal layers, currents...). A realistic maneuvering of the boat: independent engines, complete instrumental, failures, sabotage...

For the crew I like the AI of the type of the Close Combat series: realistic fatigue, moral (do you see Johann the Phantom in "Das Boot"? That fear, anxiety, desperation...). Also I like a crew making a moutiny...I like great comunications (a radio totally operative, for send messages and obtain responses), and a dynamic storyline for the captain (I think in the "campaign" of F1 2010, with interactive carachters, for example, Doenitz and AH for some insults....).

Good...A dream. It´s a great and hard work; all the luck in the adventure, Hans!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Hi Fitzcarraldo

Great list you have there it is very close to my own wish list.


For Admiral Doenitz your dream is already come true see pichttp://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/Hans_Witteman/Hans_Doenitz.jpg
It is not the final version but you can see it on the campaign loading screen in my mod it me shaking hand with the chief!

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Another screen of me in conning tower this one was suppose to be the mission menu loading but i remove it from the mod because i though that folks would be fed up seeing me everywhere in the menu :har:


http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/Hans_Witteman/SingleMissions.jpg

I never should have put this pic up now Buker is going to paint me a santa beard again lol

[Schwieger]

:har:

[Hans Witteman]

Hi again shipmates,

I was analyzing this thread and i came to the conclusion that if nobody want to attempt this then we will never see it because no developers will never be able to put all the details and behavior we are all craving for.

Simply put that a sub simulator like we all dream off would cost way too much in term of time and since subsimers like us are a very small market they would never make enough profit to cover the expense.

So my opinion is that our only hope is to at least try to make it!

Again i am not underestimated the task at hand but at least i am trying to start something, i know a lot of folks must be laughing out loud seeing me typing those lines.

But having a 3d senior artist plus a senior programmer in C++ should be a better start then a bunch of teenagers unorganized.

My dream team would be as follow :

Myself as lead designer
My buddy lead programmer
2 more 3d artists one senior and a junior
1 shader programmer
1 music composer
1 web designer

Just some toughs

Best regards Hans

[megadan]

Howdy Hans i say if u want to make it then do it, i agree with reece in that out of all the sh games i think sh3 is still the better sim unfortunatly most of us including me would like the game to have better graphics (thats why i am excited about your mega mod) although good graphics dont make a good game, my advice to u if you intend on making a good sub game is to make sure it is a sim first and put graphics second.

[Hans Witteman]

Howdy Hans i say if u want to make it then do it, i agree with reece in that out of all the sh games i think sh3 is still the better sim unfortunatly most of us including me would like the game to have better graphics (thats why i am excited about your mega mod) although good graphics dont make a good game, my advice to u if you intend on making a good sub game is to make sure it is a sim first and put graphics second.


Hi megadan,

Thank for encouraging me but if we ever decided to go for it graphic and simulation will be done in the best possible way technology allow, my programmer buddy is fast and very efficient at complex math but he can only draw stick figure:har:

My self i am not good in coding at all except some java scripting but i can draw anything in 3d and animated them:up:

Best regards Hans

[Robin40]

Howdy Hans i say if u want to make it then do it, i agree with reece in that out of all the sh games i think sh3 is still the better sim unfortunatly most of us including me would like the game to have better graphics (thats why i am excited about your mega mod) although good graphics dont make a good game, my advice to u if you intend on making a good sub game is to make sure it is a sim first and put graphics second.

I agree totally

Let us dream of SH3 (GWX, LSH£m WAC modded) with superior graphics

Then Hans you'll have your (our) dream to become reality:up:

[Sailor Steve]

Basically I would like to see something like SH3 but with better graphics, UBI's big mistake was patching up SH3 including all the old bugs and introducing new bugs into SH4, then patching this including the old bugs and introducing new ones in SH5, A whole new game including engine should have been done!:yep: so a new game with SHIII/GWX background, new graphics engine and completely moddable would be near perfect!:yeah: (Now that's a dream!:smug:)
I couldn't disagree more. I have a laundry list of things SH3 got wrong. It may be the best we have at the moment but it is not even close to being accurate, in any respect you can name.

It would be so much better to ignore everything Silent Hunter and start from scratch.

[TorpX]

Hello Hans,
I hope you are not discouraged by what others have said. If you know what you are going to need to do, and are willing to put in the effort, then go for it!

I know nothing about programming, but am a veteran player (in SH4), and like you, find some things in the UBI games very unsatisfactory. For me, the biggest flaws in SH4 are how subs/ships seem to defy the laws of physics, with poor weather modeling a close second. I think these are much more important than eye candy. From what I've read in the forum, SH3 flaws are similer. It is especially annoying when I notice, that something that was well modeled in SHCE, was messed up in SH4.

Personally, I feel that a big part of the reason Ubisoft has turned out a succession of lackluster efforts, is that there is no one around to offer direct competition.

Good luck.

[Hans Witteman]

Hello Hans,
I hope you are not discouraged by what others have said. If you know what you are going to need to do, and are willing to put in the effort, then go for it!

I know nothing about programming, but am a veteran player (in SH4), and like you, find some things in the UBI games very unsatisfactory. For me, the biggest flaws in SH4 are how subs/ships seem to defy the laws of physics, with poor weather modeling a close second. I think these are much more important than eye candy. From what I've read in the forum, SH3 flaws are similer. It is especially annoying when I notice, that something that was well modeled in SHCE, was messed up in SH4.

Personally, I feel that a big part of the reason Ubisoft has turned out a succession of lackluster efforts, is that there is no one around to offer direct competition.

Good luck.

Hi mate,

Don't worry nobody here or elsewhere will ever be able to discouraged and old stubborn kaleun like me:up:

Like i say i am in the decision process at the moment and i said to my self why not starting a thread to see idea from experienced players.

I already have read almost everything in this forum and no thread was never enough detail to have a real idea of what everyone was wishing for.

I saw this as an opportunity to start a creative discussion that could have oriented my choice to get into that hell hole or to stay out of it and continuing modding SH3.

Sincerely i know i have the necessary skill to achieve such a task i mean the modeling,texturing and animating part.

And if i am to succeed in this it will be with a great team alone i am nothing but coupled with a math guru who eat C++ and others dedicated artists the whole thing could start to take form very fast since a lot of asset are already done.

But the only problem i truly see ahead is the instability factor of both our country in the very near future and everyone here i am sure understand what i mean by that i won't go in the detail since it not the point.

So yes the possibility is real but yes i would need a lot of help any U-Boat philanthrope on this site who can give me a modest salary so i could put 80 hr a week on our dream??? :har:

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

I

It would be so much better to ignore everything Silent Hunter and start from scratch.

Hi Steve,

I love that last line starting from scratch without following the Sh3 approach i mean not coding the engine from scratch we don't want to spend the next ten years just doing that, but approaching the simulation aspect in a different perspective because we are too much focused on SH3 i don't know if you follow me but as an analogy the trees are hiding the forest:hmmm:

This tread is really getting interesting it start in uber chaos and now i start to see order from chaos:up:

Best regards Hans

[h.sie]

Hello Hans,

there is already a promising, non-commercial project called "danger from the deep". this project is about 3-5 (??) years old, consists of more than 2 programmers but seems to make no progress at all, because they don't have the manpower. they have an alpha version which looks promising. what about contributing to an existing project instead of starting a new one? this in only an idea without any insulting intentions behind it.

h.sie

[Hans Witteman]

Hello Hans,

there is already a promising, non-commercial project called "danger from the deep". this project is about 3-5 (??) years old, consists of more than 2 programmers but seems to make no progress at all, because they don't have the manpower. they have an alpha version which looks promising. what about contributing to an existing project instead of starting a new one? this in only an idea without any insulting intentions behind it.


h.sie

Hi mate

I have already saw the work they did so far pretty amazing they deserved respect but if i want to start it from scratch it is only because i am very exigent on the graphic quality and since a project as advanced as this one would not be a good starting point at least i think.

And sometime others teams don't like stranger trying to tell them what to do in their own project and i fully understand them.

And don't worry my friend your intentions are totally noble.

You know sometime starting from scratch is the only way to project a designer vision to fruition.

Best regards Hans

[fitzcarraldo]

@Hans: in the thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1587796#post1587796

There is a long interchange of opinions about a possible new game from Sonalyst. It´s for a modern warfare or subsim game, but there are a lot of good ideas about gameplay and dreams about a sub game. I recommend you to read it!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Hitman]

Hans,

you and your friend should consider joining Daemon in his long-term project to build a WW1 UBoat simulation. Basically, the same engine he is developing (With the most incredible and amazing attention to detail and realism I have ever seen -and I have tested some of his pre-alphas) would work perfectly as a WW2 UBoat simulation with just adding the new 3D models you so well develop.

A colaboration bewteen you guys would push the project forward easier, and Daemon's one is also a commercial one, so you could find the income there.

Ask him to send you per PM a dossier about his sim and an outline of his current progress and schedule, you will be amazed :up:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/main.htm

Forum here at subsim.com:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=178

Ignore that the page has not been updated for a long time, work is going on steadily behind the curtains.

[drakkhen20]

I see absolutly no problem with being a dreamer or a developer or both. How do you all think anything is made in this world. All our mods are made the same way, they start off as things we'd like to see ingame and then we take what resources we have and do our best just as developers do. Eh, all that negative talk in the beginning wow. Well good luck hans. I for one will happily try your game 5 years or 20 years from now. This forum is a great and wonderful resource for game development as should all forums of a specific game should be. Good luck.

[urfisch]

hey hans.

i would come aboard! truly...

:yeah:

i was trying to fascinate the people here several times the last years for such a great project. but its nearly impossible. so, dont take the reactions personal.

i am a studied graphics-artist. my skills are:

2d design, layout and conception
3d design, layout and conception

let me know, when your firm starts working. would be an option to buyout the sh5-code (or a license) from ubi. so nothing needs to be done from the scratch. the engine is great. and i think with access to the code of sh5, EVERYTHING we ever dreamed of would be possible.

:salute:

[Fubar2Niner]

@Hans

I love your drive and ambition kaleun. If this ever comes to fruition subsimmers will be worshipping you till the end of time mate. Unfortunately I can't offer any skills, just a suggestion..........

WOLF PACKS, WOLF PACKS, WOLF PACKS :salute::salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[NGT]

(sorry for bad English)


Hello Hans,

what are you think about that:

After the release of U-boottypIIA, according to the gamers feedback, starting enlarges this mod.

Instead of a absolute break of 12 or more months, better is adding something new every few weeks, and transform U-boottypIIA to simply U-boot.

Somebody starting a carrier with your future IIA can give feedback and, probably continuing play with the VII some weeks later, always giving feedback.

Meantime, the new campaign model will be ready, so the same players will start a really new campaign with the newcomer IXB.

During this road to perfection, new elements will come, and the players will be the continuous testers of all that. It happens like that for all the supermods here.

For me, is better like that, no several months of silent running, and after the "big bang" with 3.568 threads with questions and answers.

Like that people will stay longer inside The Game, and (new) people will be (re)interested.

Thank you for your time.

PS: For me, after playing for 5 years the (almost) same scenario over the 5 seas, a new campaign model with a new more complex behaviour for the (escaping) ships is the first priority. Drama graphics the second one (explosions, blood, flooding, fire, survivors...).

[danzig70]

This article might be helpful. It discusses the development process of a pirate game. http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15757

[drakkhen20]

I think the indepth character(first person) is a great idea. It really sucks you in and having characters to talk to and interact with is cool too, kinda gives you the effect of becoming a family. Set skills for your a.i. characters that you could build on would be awsome too. Like if your engineer was a greenhorn he would have a low skill level and as the years gone buy of wrench grinding he would become a veteran and now everything about his engine room and set experience on a set engine. Same thing for your own character as well. You first start off with no respect from crew and after a few years patrolling and some good tonnage and few close calls he could have alot of respect from his crew. Actual repair times and such. Enviroments are a plus too. You cant imerse yourself in a simulator if your enviroment is crap such as going through locks, sounds, actual navigational rules of the road, drift,wind speeds and current actually effect how your boat reacts in the water,diffrent water clarity transitions from sea to sea, some sea life would be cool too, random darkness at night and weather based on seasons and currents,jet streams and such. This forum actually has alot of mods that try to incorperate these suggestions. maybe you could contact some of the modders and ask to see if they would let you incorperate into your project.

[reaper7]

Hi Hanns, If anyone could complete a project of this scale - I belive that person to be you mate ;).
If you do start, if there's anyway I could help my services are yours :up:.
Not sure what I could do for you, maybe some Interface design or something.
As for what is needed in a uboat and so far has not been touched by the Silent Hunter franchise is a proper working Stadimeter.

Current Sh3/4 type use's a vertical stadimeter, where as Uboats had a one that switched between vertical and horizontal. Great when mast height and ship length are known - using stadimeter with these dialed in obtained the AoB.

Best of luck with the project mate :yeah:

[Hans Witteman]

@Hans: in the thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1587796#post1587796

There is a long interchange of opinions about a possible new game from Sonalyst. It´s for a modern warfare or subsim game, but there are a lot of good ideas about gameplay and dreams about a sub game. I recommend you to read it!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Hi Fitzcarraldo,

Thank for the link i will have a look later on today:salute:

Best regards hans

[Myxale]

Oi, Herr Witteman,:salute:

Like you, and most members here on SubSim, we dream of the ultimate Sim.

I too, am old enough, and I miss the days when Gaming-Studios released stuff like Falcon F16, or Janes never ending Sims on Planes or Helicopters.

Mechwarrior (yeah, i know :88))

I too would like a good SubMarine Sim.

PS. I love that render of you in the Tower!
But seeing you every day....lol! Good you removed it!

[Hans Witteman]

Hans,

you and your friend should consider joining Daemon in his long-term project to build a WW1 UBoat simulation. Basically, the same engine he is developing (With the most incredible and amazing attention to detail and realism I have ever seen -and I have tested some of his pre-alphas) would work perfectly as a WW2 UBoat simulation with just adding the new 3D models you so well develop.

A colaboration bewteen you guys would push the project forward easier, and Daemon's one is also a commercial one, so you could find the income there.

Ask him to send you per PM a dossier about his sim and an outline of his current progress and schedule, you will be amazed :up:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/main.htm

Forum here at subsim.com:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=178

Ignore that the page has not been updated for a long time, work is going on steadily behind the curtains.

Hi mate,

Thank for the link i have read it and this gentleman is doing a great job and seem to be very dedicated to this great project.

I am not closing the door completely on this possibility but the only problem i see is that for doing such an intensive work on any project development you first need to feel passionate about that particular era and theater of operation and ww1 doesn't trigger that gut feeling for me.

But like i say we have not take any final decision yet and don't be surprised if we simply abandoned the idea because we know how long and hard the road could be.

And i already mention that we have start sharing this idea 2 years ago and did some work on it.

Let's say that at the moment my hearth said do it at any cost and my brain is saying don't be a fool!

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

hey hans.

i would come aboard! truly...

:yeah:

i was trying to fascinate the people here several times the last years for such a great project. but its nearly impossible. so, dont take the reactions personal.

i am a studied graphics-artist. my skills are:

2d design, layout and conception
3d design, layout and conception

let me know, when your firm starts working. would be an option to buyout the sh5-code (or a license) from ubi. so nothing needs to be done from the scratch. the engine is great. and i think with access to the code of sh5, EVERYTHING we ever dreamed of would be possible.

:salute:

Hi mate,

If we ever start serious development of it rest assure that we will contact you mate.

As for buying the license i am on the poor side of thing so not an option for me unfortunately.

Our only true alternative is Unity 3d and Ogre 3D the developer of the imperial flotilla is using Ogre already so it is encouraging to see that Ogre seem fit for the task.

Anyway regarding coding i am almost illiterate so it up to my buddy to look at it he say he will analyze the possibility in the weekend so i will have more on this next week.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

@Hans

I love your drive and ambition kaleun. If this ever comes to fruition subsimmers will be worshipping you till the end of time mate. Unfortunately I can't offer any skills, just a suggestion..........

WOLF PACKS, WOLF PACKS, WOLF PACKS :salute::salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

Hi matey,

Please no worshiping i hate cult leaders :har:

For wolf packs it is a priority for both of us and if we ever start it don't expect to be playing that until 2014 or 2015 so if 2012 is true then nobody will ever play it!:har:

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

(sorry for bad English)


Hello Hans,

what are you think about that:

After the release of U-boottypIIA, according to the gamers feedback, starting enlarges this mod.

Instead of a absolute break of 12 or more months, better is adding something new every few weeks, and transform U-boottypIIA to simply U-boot.

Somebody starting a carrier with your future IIA can give feedback and, probably continuing play with the VII some weeks later, always giving feedback.

Meantime, the new campaign model will be ready, so the same players will start a really new campaign with the newcomer IXB.

During this road to perfection, new elements will come, and the players will be the continuous testers of all that. It happens like that for all the supermods here.

For me, is better like that, no several months of silent running, and after the "big bang" with 3.568 threads with questions and answers.

Like that people will stay longer inside The Game, and (new) people will be (re)interested.

Thank you for your time.

PS: For me, after playing for 5 years the (almost) same scenario over the 5 seas, a new campaign model with a new more complex behaviour for the (escaping) ships is the first priority. Drama graphics the second one (explosions, blood, flooding, fire, survivors...).


Hi NGT,

Nice point you are making here for sure this is what i have in mind for my mod to update it with new content each week and slowly but surely integrating the elements that fellows shipmates want to see in it.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

This article might be helpful. It discusses the development process of a pirate game. http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/15757

Thank mate will have a look later on:up:

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

I think the indepth character(first person) is a great idea. It really sucks you in and having characters to talk to and interact with is cool too, kinda gives you the effect of becoming a family. Set skills for your a.i. characters that you could build on would be awsome too. Like if your engineer was a greenhorn he would have a low skill level and as the years gone buy of wrench grinding he would become a veteran and now everything about his engine room and set experience on a set engine. Same thing for your own character as well. You first start off with no respect from crew and after a few years patrolling and some good tonnage and few close calls he could have alot of respect from his crew. Actual repair times and such. Enviroments are a plus too. You cant imerse yourself in a simulator if your enviroment is crap such as going through locks, sounds, actual navigational rules of the road, drift,wind speeds and current actually effect how your boat reacts in the water,diffrent water clarity transitions from sea to sea, some sea life would be cool too, random darkness at night and weather based on seasons and currents,jet streams and such. This forum actually has alot of mods that try to incorperate these suggestions. maybe you could contact some of the modders and ask to see if they would let you incorperate into your project.

Hi mate,

Yep good point you are making here to but regarding skill point it would be more relevant that you gain them on a per patrol basis and not year.

I don't know if you ever heard of an old game call wing commander even if old the dynamic career path was so well done and immersive that i still remember it today.

We have already find a easy way to add sea life without killing the fps
it would be trigger as random events based on sub coordinate ex:
you enter grid 51 and whale are swimming around when the whale lod dissapear at distance then another trigger a fish of school passing by etc same for the seafloor elements rock, plant etc.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Hi Hanns, If anyone could complete a project of this scale - I belive that person to be you mate ;).
If you do start, if there's anyway I could help my services are yours :up:.
Not sure what I could do for you, maybe some Interface design or something.
As for what is needed in a uboat and so far has not been touched by the Silent Hunter franchise is a proper working Stadimeter.

Current Sh3/4 type use's a vertical stadimeter, where as Uboats had a one that switched between vertical and horizontal. Great when mast height and ship length are known - using stadimeter with these dialed in obtained the stadimeter.

Best of luck with the project mate :yeah:

Hi mate,

How about finding a u-boat fanatic philanthrope for a start :har:

Where are the billionaires when we really need them:damn:

Don't worry mate if we ever start we will consider all the help that we can get and thank for encouraging us.

Best regards Hans

[Hitman]

I am not closing the door completely on this possibility but the only problem i see is that for doing such an intensive work on any project development you first need to feel passionate about that particular era and theater of operation and ww1 doesn't trigger that gut feeling for me.

I know, I know, that's why I said that you could colaborate in the common parts of the game (3D engine, physics, maps and some models) and then each one complete it with the period models and campaign you want :salute:

[reaper7]

I know, I know, that's why I said that you could colaborate in the common parts of the game (3D engine, physics, maps and some models) and then each one complete it with the period models and campaign you want :salute:

Seems like a good way to go forward :yep:.

[Hans Witteman]

I know, I know, that's why I said that you could colaborate in the common parts of the game (3D engine, physics, maps and some models) and then each one complete it with the period models and campaign you want :salute:

Hi mate,

Yes i understand your point that why i mention that i am not completely closing the door on it.:up:

My head is swirling in fury since i start this thread:O:

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

No, not here to start trouble..... :O::O::O:

I do like the idea of this corroboration, it's a scratch my back and I'll scratch yours kind of thing, you help them out with your expertise to finish their WWI scenario sim and they do the same with your WWII scenario sim, built from the same foundations they would be modules into the same engine, maybe even, dare I say it, leading to a modern Nuclear Submarine module at some point in the future, all the time adding patches to the previous modules as you discover new things / ways of doing things. Will cut development times down also, and we get 2 sims for the price of one (and yes, I would pay for it).

Ok, so that's my cloak of negativity safely packed away for the day... :yeah:

[Hans Witteman]

No, not here to start trouble..... :O::O::O:

I do like the idea of this corroboration, it's a scratch my back and I'll scratch yours kind of thing, you help them out with your expertise to finish their WWI scenario sim and they do the same with your WWII scenario sim, built from the same foundations they would be modules into the same engine, maybe even, dare I say it, leading to a modern Nuclear Submarine module at some point in the future, all the time adding patches to the previous modules as you discover new things / ways of doing things. Will cut development times down also, and we get 2 sims for the price of one (and yes, I would pay for it).

Ok, so that's my cloak of negativity safely packed away for the day... :yeah:

Hi Damo,

Yes i still consider it as a true viable alternative, this kind of work is so huge in scope that only cooperation could get thing done in a reasonable time.

But like i say earlier we are just doing our brain storming process because we need to analyze all the shortcoming issues before we say go for it.

For myself it is not a big problem i can spare lot of time on this since my kids are raised but my buddy is just starting a small family so this could be one of our main issues, i will never accept that he put is family aside for our project.

Best regards Hans

[GT182]

Hans, I know Canadians are a tough lot and don't give up, follow your dream and do it. Sounds like you have a great start for a new U-boat Simulation. Now if your forefathers had given up on building Canada, where would you all be now?

Heck, I've frozen my butt off for years up above Montreal in St. Therese. GM plant if you remeber it. Hauled cars out of there back to the States for Anchor Mtr Frt.

Maybe someday soon I can get back up that way to visit. I'd even like to stop by and say hi if it's ok. I'll roll two trips into one seeing that I have to stop in at Ventilation-Maximum Ltd up on Pierre Bonne.

[Hans Witteman]

Hans, I know Canadians are a tough lot and don't give up, follow your dream and do it. Sounds like you have a great start for a new U-boat Simulation. Now if your forefathers had given up on building Canada, where would you all be now?

Heck, I've frozen my butt off for years up above Montreal in St. Therese. GM plant if you remeber it. Hauled cars out of there back to the States for Anchor Mtr Frt.

Maybe someday soon I can get back up that way to visit. I'd even like to stop by and say hi if it's ok. I'll roll two trips into one seeing that I have to stop in at Ventilation-Maximum Ltd up on Pierre Bonne.

Hi GT182,

Thank for the good words my friend, i am a very stubborn type of guy and i like ambitious project that seem to have insurmountable odd.

And yes if you ever pass by you are welcome to my humble house:up:

Best regards Hans

[yamato9]

Hello mate!

Im lookng forward to your new project and i hope that he will see a broad daylight once. On other hand we saw in past many potent projects of indie subsims which developments where abandoned after certain time. Authors simply lose precious time, or interest and all works fell in water. But i like indie sims because they are special, they are produced with heart and feel you know, and this player can feel when play those games(Armured Brigade for example).

What whoud i like in this game is that crew really need to work, lets say that WO need some time to identify ship or make solution and that he is not perfect.
That you cant see ships or other objects in external view if you are not aware of them, like in Dangerous waters and SC. This always bugged me in SH3 when i wanted to look my sub from outside i always have feeling that i cheating. That feel is not present in DW and SC.
AND good model of Type IX, late war IX/40 especially. Most of us obviously noticed that almost everithing i maded on Type VII and Type II but nothing for niner. I cant belive that people (or maybe modders) are so much uninterested in this boat and that they like Type II more.

Anyway, Im holding fingers for you if you seriously accept this long and exausting task.:up:

[Hans Witteman]

Hello mate!

Im lookng forward to your new project and i hope that he will see a broad daylight once. On other hand we saw in past many potent projects of indie subsims which developments where abandoned after certain time. Authors simply lose precious time, or interest and all works fell in water. But i like indie sims because they are special, they are produced with heart and feel you know, and this player can feel when play those games(Armured Brigade for example).

What woud i like in this game is that crew really need to work, lets say that WO need some time to identify ship or make solution and that he is not perfect.
That you cant see ships or other objects in external view if you are not aware of them, like in Dangerous waters and SC. This always bugged me in SH3 when i wanted to look my sub from outside i always have
feeling that i cheating which is not present in DW and SC.
AND good model of Type IX, late war IX/40 especially. Most of obviously noticed that almost everithing i maded on Type VII and Type II but nothing for niner. I cant belive that people (or maybe modders) are so much uninterested in this boat and that they like mor Type II more.

Anyway, Im holding fingers for you if you seriously accept this long and exausting task.:up:

I Yamato,

Thank for your input and i understand your point of view on external view and if we decide to do it we will take care of that irritant .

You can be sure that typ IX will be included in our project and in full detail.

But the typIIA,C,D are quite fun boat to used like in the Black sea.

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

Type 9 reminds me too much of fleet boats, and if I want that I'll hop in SH4
Way too easy to get creamed with that giant boat against the Brits and Amis :har::haha:

[Hans Witteman]

Type 9 reminds me too much of fleet boats, and if I want that I'll hop in SH4
Way too easy to get creamed with that giant boat against the Brits and Amis :har::haha:

Yep i have to agree this boat was a real iron coffin:cry:

[yamato9]

But the typIIA,C,D are quite fun boat to used like in the Black sea.

Yes it is, I also liked to play with canoe but Type IX is my No1 so i often found myself frustrated why there are no new models for this boat.

[Hans Witteman]

Yes it is, I also liked to play with canoe but Type IX is my No1 so i often found myself frustrated why there are no new models for this boat.

Hi again Yamato,

I didn't make extensive research on it but maybe it is due to lack of references i am just guessing here:hmmm:

Let's say that if i can find a spot on my tight schedule i might reconsider modding it in U-BOOTTYPIIA_HAHD

[yamato9]

Type 9 reminds me too much of fleet boats, and if I want that I'll hop in SH4
Way too easy to get creamed with that giant boat against the Brits and Amis :har::haha:

Dont forget that T9b is top scorer.;)

Hi again Yamato,

I didn't make extensive research on it but maybe it is due to lack of references i am just guessing here:hmmm:

Let's say that if i can find a spot on my tight schedule i might reconsider modding it in U-BOOTTYPIIA_HAHD

Thanks mate, but dont take this to seriously. I know how hard modding knows to be, at least from texturing field.

[fitzcarraldo]

Yes it is, I also liked to play with canoe but Type IX is my No1 so i often found myself frustrated why there are no new models for this boat.

For Type IX, the best reference is the U 505 in Chicago; there are sites in Internet with photos and information, and several books.

And the best sim for IX is SH4 U boats mission with Ducimus´ Nine Delta Two mod. Only it lacks of a great campaign. (great failure, yes...).

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Bruce_Will_Es]

Hi all,

for collecting ideas you (Hans Wittemann) should start a wiki. Each article is a single feature of the game and will be refined in the inception and elaboration phase. For an overview it would be helpful to see a hierarchic structure like a sitemap for reflecting each point of the game. There has to be a story/campaign tree and a technical/design tree.

In a project like this you have to work like in each other serious IT projects. First you need a plan, which is refined in all parts. Each wish/feature must be defined in all single (atomic!) points. Maybe some points need to be split up into substructures. The refining can be done in discussions within forums like here (so you get a steady publicity). In the end you get a plan like you get when designing a complete new airplane where every part has to be newly developed. Then you use the experience you got out of the prototypes in the elaboration phase for the coding/design phase.

When you put this into action there is already enough done for the people here to help at least with comments and wishes. Important is a open and well documented project history with traceable versioning and well documented (!!!) programming so people can follow, jump into, interact and go in any step of the project for a steady progress. Most of this hobby projects die without strict project management.

[urfisch]

Hi mate,

If we ever start serious development of it rest assure that we will contact you mate.

As for buying the license i am on the poor side of thing so not an option for me unfortunately.

Our only true alternative is Unity 3d and Ogre 3D the developer of the imperial flotilla is using Ogre already so it is encouraging to see that Ogre seem fit for the task.

Anyway regarding coding i am almost illiterate so it up to my buddy to look at it he say he will analyze the possibility in the weekend so i will have more on this next week.

Best regards Hans

maybe so...maybe not. since i am member here and have seen only the gwx-team doing really organized projectwork, although we have many more modders here, i do not believe in non-profit-community-projects any more.

if something like that starts...it has to be profit orientated and modern, so we can sell this stuff later! what means, we have to invest some money. imperial flotilla 1914 is a nice try, but it looks really old fashioned and odd. if you start such a project, based on the open source 3d-engine, ok. but if this engine does not allow better models, water, fire, smoke, etc. fx...the try is not worth it!!! its wasted time.

IF such a project starts, do it professionally.

it has to be formed a real firm, even its a limited "ltd". further we need reliable members, who work with passion and for small money, just to reach the aim. as for the motivation, everyone should be shareholder of the firm, so the earnings later are for everyone. and the base for such a game MUST be the sh5 code, or the sh4 code. there is already documentation on these games and a lot of modded content. so they already have a very good content and A LOT of potential. finally our firm "just" needs to add content, functions and polish the existing stuff. this would be the way it works.

simply: do everything, the dev-team could not, due to a lack of time!...and finally sell the finished product as THE SUBSIM of all times.

:salute:

but starting from the scratch...i do not believe this works. why invest a lot of time into a game project, that might has gameplay depth, but looks like from the last century? a sim is playable reality. so it should look like reality. and if you want to create great stuff, you need poeple who do it. so give the people something, that motivates them. mostly this is money. so at the end of such a project there has to be the chance of earnings. but with a game looking like IF 1914...forget it. by the way, ALL content has to be created. there is simply nothing if you start from scratch. this takes so much time...and many people. forget it.

i have already worked on games the way, you want to do it. for example i was lead designer for the project "subwolves". i did it for nothing. no money, no game. the whole project ended in the mud. if somehing should work, it has to be with money. and money is alway available. all startups work with lended money, work on credit. this is how it works everywhere.

if you find people here, who are really confident about this project, it would be no problem to get it started.

[danzig70]

There is actually some resources for combining land, sea and air simulators here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Ground_Traffic_Simulation_Resources

FlightGear is the aircraft sim and has some interesting features.
http://www.flightgear.org/features.html

Bridge Command is the ship sim and would require a bit of work but at least it wouldnt be from scratch.
http://www.bridgecommand.co.uk/

[Hans Witteman]

Hi fellows,

This is such a beautiful day for shoveling .

Best regards Hans

[makman94]

From the first day that you showed up Hans...i ''smelled'' that something really good will start for sh3 ! it was about time (better late than...never) to show up a PROFESSIONAL and take the lead in modding !

when i reading that YOU are dreaming ...this is only getting me huppy and i really believe that this is just... the start ! when a PROFESSIONAL says these things ....we all have just to WATCH...FOLLOW and SUPPORT as much we can ! and even if the ''dream'' seems crazy to many 'realistic' people (no offence to you Damo here...i am speaking generally) i have to say only this : this world is moving on (better say that is ''pushed' forward) to the next level....ONLY by people that had a dream which ,in most cases in history, was named as 'crazy dream' from the others ...'realistic' people! (question: can someone be sure 100% that Tesla was just a ...fool ?...or does your grandfather would believe that people will get and walk at moon?)
many of these 'dreamers' gave their whole life ,some of them ..got crazy on the 'road' , trying to catch the 'dream' ! BUT SOME DREAMS ARE getting real and this IS exactly what moves the world forward ! IF THIS WORLD WAS BASED ONLY to realistic minds....the humanity now ,at these days,will be discovering the...wheel !!

Having said all these...Hans ...GO FOR IT ! and if it fails ....ok ! what did we had and lose ?AND i agree with H.Sie that you have to communicate with the 'Danger From The Deep''s or Daemon's project devs!you never know...what will come from this 'meeting'

all the best to you and your dream ! :up:

[Hans Witteman]

From the first day that you showed up Hans...i ''smelled'' that something really good will start for sh3 ! it was about time (better late than...never) to show up a PROFESSIONAL and take the lead in modding !

when i reading that YOU are dreaming ...this is only getting me huppy and i really believe that this is just... the start ! when a PROFESSIONAL says these things ....we all have just to WATCH...FOLLOW and SUPPORT as much we can ! and even if the ''dream'' seems crazy to many 'realistic' people (no offence to you Damo here...i am speaking generally) i have to say only this : this world is moving on (better say that is ''pushed' forward) to the next level....ONLY by people that had a dream which ,in most cases in history, was named as 'crazy dream' from the others ...'realistic' people! (question: can someone be sure 100% that Tesla was just a ...fool ?...or does your grandfather would believe that people will get and walk at moon?)
many of these 'dreamers' gave their whole life ,some of them ..got crazy on the 'road' , trying to catch the 'dream' ! BUT SOME DREAMS ARE getting real and this IS exactly what moves the world forward ! IF THIS WORLD WAS BASED ONLY to realistic minds....the humanity now ,at these days,will be discovering the...wheel !!

Having said all these...Hans ...GO FOR IT ! and if it fails ....ok ! what did we had and lose ?AND i agree with H.Sie that you have to communicate with the 'Danger From The Deep''s or Daemon's project devs!you never know...what will come from this 'meeting'

all the best to you and your dream ! :up:

Hi mate,

After such a bad day for me here how refreshing to read some positive stuff. thank you very much i have great respect for you since the beginning i have that special ability to identify the good folks only by talking to them and sir you are surely one of those gentleman.

Yes i still do believe everything is possible to the strong mind and will but not without analyzing and structuring such an ambitious task.

Me and my programmer buddy had a very intensive discussion last night
and we both agree that before starting anything serious we need to make good planning to avoid the major pitfall.

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

Hi fellows,

This is such a beautiful day for shoveling .

Best regards Hans

Thread bumping :har::haha::haha:

[Hans Witteman]

Thread bumping :har::haha::haha:
:har:

[Hans Witteman]

Hi all,

for collecting ideas you (Hans Wittemann) should start a wiki. Each article is a single feature of the game and will be refined in the inception and elaboration phase. For an overview it would be helpful to see a hierarchic structure like a sitemap for reflecting each point of the game. There has to be a story/campaign tree and a technical/design tree.

In a project like this you have to work like in each other serious IT projects. First you need a plan, which is refined in all parts. Each wish/feature must be defined in all single (atomic!) points. Maybe some points need to be split up into substructures. The refining can be done in discussions within forums like here (so you get a steady publicity). In the end you get a plan like you get when designing a complete new airplane where every part has to be newly developed. Then you use the experience you got out of the prototypes in the elaboration phase for the coding/design phase.

When you put this into action there is already enough done for the people here to help at least with comments and wishes. Important is a open and well documented project history with traceable versioning and well documented (!!!) programming so people can follow, jump into, interact and go in any step of the project for a steady progress. Most of this hobby projects die without strict project management.

Hi mate,

I totally agree with you on all aspect of the pipeline you sound like someone who has already been involve in such process:up:

Without a blueprint nothing is possible it is the base of any project.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

There is actually some resources for combining land, sea and air simulators here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Ground_Traffic_Simulation_Resources

FlightGear is the aircraft sim and has some interesting features.
http://www.flightgear.org/features.html

Bridge Command is the ship sim and would require a bit of work but at least it wouldnt be from scratch.
http://www.bridgecommand.co.uk/

Hi mate,

Very interesting finding there:up:

I will have a deeper look later on

Best regards Hans

[urfisch]

hey hans. you should read my post regarding "the how to" carefully.

just for notice.

:up:

[Hans Witteman]

hey hans. you should read my post regarding "the how to" carefully.

just for notice.

:up:

Hi mate,

Already did mate sorry if i didn't reply so far because yesterday was a bit crazy for me:hmmm:

I respect you opinion but disagree on certain point please don't bash the imperial flotilla because this guy only show you the rough prototype of his work when coding will be fully implemented then the beauty lift start with good 3d artists and environment designer.

At the beginning all game look in the rough.

He use Ogre as the graphic renderer just go and have a look at Venetica it is a German RPG release recently and it look gorgeous.

I think that sometime the only way to have exactly what we want in term of an unterseeboot simulator is to do it without being trap in another limited game engine.

An other point to is that most of the time you have to be a millionaire to afford a license from any game developers under 500,000.00 you have nothing.

But all your points are as valid as mine so we are at least progressing towards our goal.:up:

Best regards Hans

[urfisch]

Hi mate,

Already did mate sorry if i didn't reply so far because yesterday was a bit crazy for me:hmmm:

I respect you opinion but disagree on certain point please don't bash the imperial flotilla because this guy only show you the rough prototype of his work when coding will be fully implemented then the beauty lift start with good 3d artists and environment designer.

At the beginning all game look in the rough.

He use Ogre as the graphic renderer just go and have a look at Venetica it is a German RPG release recently and it look gorgeous.

I think that sometime the only way to have exactly what we want in term of an unterseeboot simulator is to do it without being trap in another limited game engine.

An other point to is that most of the time you have to be a millionaire to afford a license from any game developers under 500,000.00 you have nothing.

But all your points are as valid as mine so we are at least progressing towards our goal.:up:

Best regards Hans

ok...just wanted to point out really important things. maybe we just talked of the wrong game. i meant "shells of fury 1914". please show me, which game you mean, hans. i will take a look. and i just wanted to mention, the engine must me able to handle good graphics, with good perfomance!

and if you start such a project, you should keep in mind the manpower and how to motivate these people, if they might work from all over the world and not in a real office. this is mostly money. so without investing it, we wont be able to create such nice stuff!

generally spoken, to start from scratch is the best option. so you are free to create everything the way you want it. BUT as to what we have with sh4 (a good engine, a lot of content AND experience) one should think about using this existing work. 500k is a number, but we dont know what ubi wants for letting us dig into the (old!) sourcecode. maybe they are interested in a cooperation. who knows...who knows, hans.

:salute:

[Hans Witteman]

ok...just wanted to point out really important things. maybe we just talked of the wrong game. i meant "shells of fury 1914". please show me, which game you mean, hans. i will take a look. and i just wanted to mention, the engine must me able to handle good graphics, with good perfomance!

and if you start such a project, you should keep in mind the manpower and how to motivate these people, if they might work from all over the world and not in a real office. this is mostly money. so without investing it, we wont be able to create such nice stuff!

generally spoken, to start from scratch is the best option. so you are free to create everything the way you want it. BUT as to what we have with sh4 (a good engine, a lot of content AND experience) one should think about using this existing work. 500k is a number, but we dont know what ubi wants for letting us dig into the (old!) sourcecode. maybe they are interested in a cooperation. who knows...who knows, hans.

:salute:

Hi mate,

You have a good point there but who here would be our best ambassador to approach ubisoft to see what kind of possibility they are?

I don't want to sound negative but from my experience with Ubisoft Montreal they simply ignored those kind of requests.


Best regards

[Hans Witteman]

Hi shipmates,

For those who want to have a peak at the link it is about an open source physic engine just go and look at the list of included features.

Look like a serious contender to us and it is open source wow:up:

http://www.adrianboeing.com/pal/index.html

Best regards Hans

[Jankowski]

Great idea Hans!

I would love to play this game because judging from your previous work it will be awesome!

[Hans Witteman]

Great idea Hans!

I would love to play this game because judging from your previous work it will be awesome!

Hi mate,

Great idea for sure but i put it on the ice to let me finish my mod after that i will take the decision if i go for it or not, many talented folks have contact me to be in this ambitious simulator.

Time will tell:salute:

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

Hi mate,

Great idea for sure but i put it on the ice to let me finish my mod after that i will take the decision if i go for it or not, many talented folks have contact me to be in this ambitious simulator.

Time will tell:salute:

Best regards Hans

And time tells good things :woot:

[BUKER]

Hi Hans,

My dream is called - IXC/40...:wah::wah::wah:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3885/37504777.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4857/49249071.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3421/50485266.jpg

[Hans Witteman]

Hi Hans,

My dream is called - IXC/40...:wah::wah::wah:





Hi mate,

Your dream will become reality because one member here provide me with extensive pictures and plans for IXC/40 so it will be done right after i finish IX-B.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi Hans,

My dream is called - IXC/40...:wah::wah::wah:





Hi mate,

Your dream will become reality because one member here provide me with extensive pictures and plans for IXC/40 so it will be done right after i finish IX-B.

[brabham85]

@Hans Witteman

I read your "manifest" in this topic and I get very excited with the whole idea. But let me say:

- Think in a more customizable game that the SH series;

- If possible, think about the game as a platform to modifications that could transform the game in a naval simulator, not only sub sim.

- And at last: Cold War! Nuclear subs! Balistics! Red October! Sean Connery... yeah, I'm joking, but seriously, I think that u-boat and Second World War is a little bit overvisited (if this word exists, my english sucks and I a brazilian).

[Hans Witteman]

@Hans Witteman

I read your "manifest" in this topic and I get very excited with the whole idea. But let me say:

- Think in a more customizable game that the SH series;

- If possible, think about the game as a platform to modifications that could transform the game in a naval simulator, not only sub sim.

- And at last: Cold War! Nuclear subs! Balistics! Red October! Sean Connery... yeah, I'm joking, but seriously, I think that u-boat and Second World War is a little bit overvisited (if this word exists, my english sucks and I a brazilian).

Hi mate,

For the moment i am putting all efforts on my mod but later on we will decide if we go for it or not because it is not a ride in the park i have been involved in 2 games development in the past and each time the team was dislocated.

People think that they will still have a normal social life when embarking in such a project and they soon realized that they cannot take the pressure.

Best regards Hans