[REQ] Japanese DD gun range check

[keltos01]

attacking an Asashio with the Surcouf (range 16000 m max 27 km) I couldn't help but notice that the DD only attacked me when they were 4000 y away, when their RL gun range was 21100 y !

http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm

Matsu : 3 x 5"/40 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_40.htm), Max. Range16,075 yards

Akizuki : 8 x 3.9"/65 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/100_65.htm), Max. Range21,300 yards

Yugumo : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Shimakaze : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Kagero : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Asashio : : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Shiratsuyu : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Hatsuharu : : 5 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Akatsuki : : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Fubuki : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards

Mutsuki: 4 x 4.7"/45 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/120_45.htm),Max. Range17,500 yards

do the various mods/super mods take it into account ?

keltos

[TorpX]

The 4,000yd range sounds reasonable. The max. ranges you list have little practical meaning. A sub, or any small boat would be difficult to hit. This would be especially true in rough seas. If they had no stablization or elaborate fire control mechanisms, 4,000yd might be optimistic.

[Karle94]

Japanese ships lacked proper fire control and radar. Getting in close would be logical if you don`t want to waste ammunition. Also you wanna get in close and fire, cause if you fire from far away the sub would dive and escape.

[Jan Kyster]

attacking an Asashio with the Surcouf (range 16000 m max 27 km) I couldn't help but notice that the DD only attacked me when they were 4000 y away, when their RL gun range was 21100 y !I just praise myself lucky not being a crew on your boat... :D


But isn't the gun range a setting in sim.cfg?


/edit: btw. Karle - that sig is so against forum rules. Way too big...

[Webster]

one thing to remember as well is the real range isnt always going to give you real numbers in the game so you cant just put in the real numbers and expect to see that in the game. often you must use very different numbers to get the correct realistic numbers in the game.the first thing you learn when modding this game is the numbers you use often arent the numbers you get in game


also max range isnt the best yard stick because its little more then blind luck at such ranges and most ships would try to close the range before firing to alert the sub to dive plus you need visual to adjust your aim so max range isnt going to allow this so you are firing blindly with no idea where your shells are going

[Webster]

plus if you want to replace the chrono in a mod then just delete the clock.dds file from that mod rather then the mod replaces it then you re-replace it with the original file you just replaced :doh:

it reduces mod conflict chances and the less you replace the more stable your game is

[Armistead]

I know in TMO the DD's start firing at 6000 yards if they can get a visual on you.

[Jan Kyster]

I know in TMO the DD's start firing at 6000 yards if they can get a visual on you.And that is the AI firing range setting in TMO's sim.cfg :hmmm:

Reading Keltos' first post I remembered a german captain, was it Lüth?, stalking a convoy, when suddenly shells began dropping around him. With noone in sight anywhere - turned out to be an english destroyer using radar guided guns from +15.000 meters.

Now that would be cool in SHIV... I guess... kinda... :D

[keltos01]

but of course the japanese, though they had really good shipborne binoculars, didn't use their radar to guide their gunfire..

from what I saw at 9500 y the DD was halfway under the horizon, so they couldn't really see me, and many of my shots missed but since they were 8 inch shells, well only a few would sink a DD right ?

is it only realistic that a ship at 9500y would be halfway under the horizon ? is the earth curved this much ? or is it a sh4 limitation ?

keltos

[Jan Kyster]

but of course the japanese, though they had really good shipborne binoculars, didn't use their radar to guide their gunfire..

from what I saw at 9500 y the DD was halfway under the horizon, so they couldn't really see me, and many of my shots missed but since they were 8 inch shells, well only a few would sink a DD right ?

is it only realistic that a ship at 9500y would be halfway under the horizon ? is the earth curved this much ? or is it a sh4 limitation ?

keltosThe japanese optical rangefinders would be placed very high up, but we'll have to find some blueprint to tell the exact position...
Personally I've always dived when the topsides are visible - if we can see that, then someone or something up there can see us... at least that's what I prefer to imagine.

I confess, I know absolutely nothing about french 8" shells - but can only imagine it would be a nasty experience being in the impact area... :O:

When I sit in one of my favorite places in the harbour, I can see ships as they enter the bay (between Fanoe and Skallingen :D ) - that's a distance of about 9 km - and as my position above sealevel is about the same as being on a sub, I would say SHIV has it spot on... this planet is a really, really tiny thing.

From another spot at the southern end of the harbour I can clearly see the curvature - overlooking the tidal area, the marsk. 18 km away I can see only the very top of one the oldest churches in Denmark and it's 52 meters high ~ height of a battleship :88)


/edit:
Here's a Shimakaze, where the rangefinder - and a lookout basket? - is clearly visible:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg/800px-IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg

For larger image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg

If you're referring to the image here (Surcouf thread) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1565622&postcount=184 then you're clearly visible from their rangefinder. And should imho be under heavy fire...

[Sledgehammer427]

The lookout basket probably contained a spotter with a high-powered telescope to mark the falling of shots. That basket is about 80 feet up... about 26 meters. I don't know the math involved with the distance you can see from a perch that high, but, as previously mentioned, I think a destroyer would wait until they got much closer to open fire on a submarine.

Jan, I'm very envious of your location. A trip to anywhere close to the ocean would take around 4 hours from where I'm presiding now.

[keltos01]

[QUOTE=Jan Kyster;1566961]The japanese optical rangefinders would be placed very high up, but we'll have to find some blueprint to tell the exact position...
:DL
Personally I've always dived when the topsides are visible - if we can see that, then someone or something up there can see us... at least that's what I prefer to imagine.
well I thought since the Surcouf had those big guns... ;)

then again yesterday I won a fight against a DD in a single mission where you recon a harbor (and find 3 carriers - all down thanks to the 24v torpedoes) but sank when I crash dived.. ! I was full of holes...

I confess, I know absolutely nothing about french 8" shells - but can only imagine it would be a nasty experience being in the impact area... :O:
yep, a nasty experience to say the least !

When I sit in one of my favorite places in the harbour, I can see ships as they enter the bay (between Fanoe and Skallingen :D )
beautiful place ! lucky you ! I just went and took a look on :
http://www.visitfanoe.dk/international/en-gb/menu/turist/sevaerdighedergb/fanoe-pitures/fanoebilleder.htm#
:yeah:

- that's a distance of about 9 km - and as my position above sealevel is about the same as being on a sub, I would say SHIV has it spot on... this planet is a really, really tiny thing.
right ! I remember now watching ships go by in Knokke, but i didn't know how far they were, true that outside the range of my binoculars they kindo disappeared...

From another spot at the southern end of the harbour I can clearly see the curvature - overlooking the tidal area, the marsk. 18 km away I can see only the very top of one the oldest churches in Denmark and it's 52 meters high ~ height of a battleship :88)
:o

/edit:
Here's a Shimakaze, where the rangefinder - and a lookout basket? - is clearly visible:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg/800px-IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg

For larger image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/IJN_Shimakaze_%28Minekaze_class%29_Taisho_11.jpg

If you're referring to the image here (Surcouf thread) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1565622&postcount=184
indeed...

then you're clearly visible from their rangefinder. And should imho be under heavy fire...

same basket on the Yukikaze :

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7648/yukikazea.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/yukikazea.jpg/)
larger image (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_destroyer_Yukikaze%3Bh73052.jpg)

can we change one destroyer type only, then have someone make a single mission with her, and see what gives ?

I can't make missions :(

keltos

[Jan Kyster]

Jan, I'm very envious of your location. A trip to anywhere close to the ocean would take around 4 hours from where I'm presiding now.A 4 hour trip in any direction in this ridiculously small country and you'll be in the ocean... :nope:

But I know what you mean. Couldn't live without the sea. And it's nice to play SHIV and hear seagulls outside the windows...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=esbjerg+denmark&SearchBox&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Esbjerg,+Danmark&ei=wS0kTYveHsKv8QO9_MDcBQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/biggrin3.gif

/edit:
can we change one destroyer type only, then have someone make a single mission with her, and see what gives ?Give me a minute - have nothing else to do while waiting for my monitor to arrive... :D

Here you go: http://www.mediafire.com/file/mlgtzgx079hyz6n/Gun%20Battle%21.zip
Just a quick and dirty. On collisioncourse with an Asashio... those 8"... wow! :o

But can't get anyone to fire beyond 6000 meters? Despite changing sim.cfg - must be defined somewhere else :hmmm:

[keltos01]

ok

take your pick of a destroyer
better one with the longer range guns

regards

keltos

[keltos01]

Asashio uses :

node 15 in guns_radar.dat

0x80a9a98ee5b6a239 5in_Double_base_Jp

in.sim :

max range = 18380 m

storage :

250 AP
250 AA

in RL :

Asashio : : 6 x 5"/50 DP (http://www.combinedfleet.com/127_50.htm), Max. Range20,100 yards



keltos

[Jan Kyster]

Made a revised mission with some cruisers as well... http://www.mediafire.com/?wehc4raapa4dtjt

Longest range before engaging was 6700 meters... pathetic.

Imho it's an issue that needs work. Haven't noticed it before, since I'm never engaged in such kind of combats... :D


Some brave testers...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/Surcouf/SurcoufGB.jpg

[peabody]

But can't get anyone to fire beyond 6000 meters? Despite changing sim.cfg - must be defined somewhere else :hmmm:

Try changing it in the CrewAI.cfg file.

Peabody

[Jan Kyster]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/doh.gif of course!

That's it!

Surcouf engaging TF - range ~ 16 km! They have no clue of what or who's hitting them! :D
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/Surcouf/GBII.jpg

Now some tests to see when the TF will strike back - guess they'll have to be within visual range...

[keltos01]

will try but now I'm going to Antwerp to buy a Dry Suit ;)

I made an (untested as of now) new version of the surcouf

includes :

armored turret (same value as asashio)
moved spheres and boxes for the conning tower

45 starshells for night action

your single mission is in the mod :oops: could I ?

keltos

d/l link :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/19uikiue9erckv7/Surcouf%20v1.7.8.7z

@peabody : Happy New Year to you my friend !!!!!

[keltos01]

engaged at 16 km

no hits :(

gun's crosshairs move from the left to the center ship back and forth ...

yes I'm using the no stabilize option :smug:

keltos

[Jan Kyster]

will try but now I'm going to Antwerp to buy a Dry Suit ;)Don't you take this sim testing a bit too serious now? :o

[keltos01]

Don't you take this sim testing a bit too serious now? :o

:har: no no I'm also a commercial diver (part-time)

I'll go another day

keltos