PERFECT SIM! What can we make out of SH5/SH3?

[urfisch]

hey folks.

i am following sh5 since release and sh3 also since release. i stopped playing sh5 and also sh3, due to some reasons. i always hoped to see sh5 reaching the state of sh3. but i begin to be in doubt about the ability of a development modders can give to sh5´s gameplay, as for mod-limitations from the game itself.

:shifty:

so i ask myself:

HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY IMPORT FROM SH5...OR HOW MUCH CAN BE EXPORTET FROM SH3, TO MAKE THE PERFECT SIM?

:arrgh!:

in my opinion and as a conclusion after reading through the forums the last month since release, gameplay is THE KEY for fun and immersion - uhh, what a discovery! ;) fact is, sh5 gameplay never REALLY kicked me and many of the people playing sh5. many switched back to sh3, or simply only play sh5 for a quick&dirty sub expedition. also for me sh3´s game-structure gives us the most immersive, realistic gameplay a subsim can have...BUT it got old fashioned, it should be polished! this is the point, where sh5 is interesting again.

for example, sh5 has a really, really, REALLY NICE enviroment, since w_clear got the hell out of the engine. looks nearly 100% real. and also the crew-models are very nice to look at. but gameplay still has, and will always have a lack of feeling, sh3 gave us...so what to do???

SH5 pros
------------

- Enviroment
- Water
- overall 3D models
- FX abilities (Fire, etc.)
- Engine potential


SH3 pros
------------

- Game structure
- Gameplay!!! (Immersion, Mission structure, atmosphere, etc)
- Modded AI
- Megamods
- Modability
- Communitys Mod Experience

so, TDW, Privateer, Skwasjer, W_clear, reaper7, Anvart, flakmonkey, diving duck, JScones, rowi58, HanSolo78, SteelViking and all other passioned modders. what can we do, to make the perfect sim? which way is better to walk on:

SH3 as base game, adding features from SH5

or

SH5 as base game, adding the most popular features from SH3

???

:yeah:

[fitzcarraldo]

hey folks.

i am following sh5 since release and sh3 also since release. i stopped playing sh5 and also sh3, due to some reasons. i always hoped to see sh5 reaching the state of sh3. but i begin to be in doubt about the ability of a development modders can give to sh5´s gameplay, as for mod-limitations from the game itself.

:shifty:

so i ask myself:

HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY IMPORT FROM SH5...OR HOW MUCH CAN BE EXPORTET FROM SH3, TO MAKE THE PERFECT SIM?

:arrgh!:

in my opinion and as a conclusion after reading through the forums the last month since release, gameplay is THE KEY for fun and immersion - uhh, what a discovery! ;) fact is, sh5 gameplay never REALLY kicked me and many of the people playing sh5. many switched back to sh3, or simply only play sh5 for a quick&dirty sub expedition. also for me sh3´s game-structure gives us the most immersive, realistic gameplay a subsim can have...BUT it got old fashioned, it should be polished! this is the point, where sh5 is interesting again.

for example, sh5 has a really, really, REALLY NICE enviroment, since w_clear got the hell out of the engine. looks nearly 100% real. and also the crew-models are very nice to look at. but gameplay still has, and will always have a lack of feeling, sh3 gave us...so what to do???

SH5 pros
------------

- Enviroment
- Water
- overall 3D models
- FX abilities (Fire, etc.)
- Engine potential


SH3 pros
------------

- Game structure
- Gameplay!!! (Immersion, Mission structure, atmosphere, etc)
- Modded AI
- Megamods
- Modability
- Communitys Mod Experience

so, TDW, Privateer, Skwasjer, W_clear, reaper7, Anvart, flakmonkey, diving duck, JScones, rowi58, HanSolo78, SteelViking and all other passioned modders. what can we do, to make the perfect sim? which way is better to walk on:

SH3 as base game, adding features from SH5

or

SH5 as base game, adding the most popular features from SH3

???

:yeah:

Because I uninstalled SH5 (for me, a comic game), I like to import some candies from SH5 to SH3. I think SH3 is the best U-Boot sim!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

I shelved SH3. SH3 is vastly inferior in comparison to SH5. I've only begun to figure out what SH5 can do. SH5 will be the best SH yet in time :yep: As of now SH3 can't touch it with mods - especially with my UIs mod, IRAI, Automation, Tutorials, Real navigation, and FX Update mods. Just finishing up lighthouses for SH5 currently :D. Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities :rock:

[fitzcarraldo]

I shelved SH3. SH3 is vastly inferior in comparison to SH5. I've only begun to figure out what SH5 can do. SH5 will be the best SH yet in time :yep: As of now SH3 can't touch it with mods - especially with my UIs mod, IRAI, Automation, Tutorials, Real navigation, and FX Update mods. Just finishing up lighthouses for SH5 currently :D. Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities :rock:

I prefer a seasoned mate to an infant sailor...SH5 needs an all-extensive-modification for a good comparission with SH3 modded. While the infant continue to be a baby...I´ll play SH3.

Regards!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[vlad29]

I shelved SH3. SH3 is vastly inferior in comparison to SH5. I've only begun to figure out what SH5 can do. SH5 will be the best SH yet in time :yep: As of now SH3 can't touch it with mods - especially with my UIs mod, IRAI, Automation, Tutorials, Real navigation, and FX Update mods. Just finishing up lighthouses for SH5 currently :D. Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities :rock:
+1
IMHO SH5 is a rough product but with great potential. Don't U remember what had hapened when SH3 stock version was just released?! - The same as we can see now with SH5 (users damns on the PCGforums, addressed to UBISOFT, and almost no good replies re. the game). After the first mods and oficial packs+addons have appeared, the gamers community's oppinion had changed directly.
Probably somebody knows about UBISOFT plans: if they are going to proceed with further official upgrading SH5 or just gave it up already in favour of next projects?

[Hitman]

Actually your questions had already a very solid response to our avail: The one which will probably rank first as most underrated submarine simulation in history ... Silent Hunter 4 :)

It is the perfect balance between the SH5 eyecandy and the SH3 gameplay, and has potential to surpass them both in their respective strong areas if developed hard enough. But there it is, collecting dust in many people's shelf, and far away from the attention of most of the talented modders. If it had received half the dedication and talent that SH5 already has, we would no doubt have the best ever submarine simulations. Sadly it didn't :shifty:, and probably the end of the GWX4 project meant the definitive burying of the promise SH4 had. With a GWX4 we would have seen many other mods flourish around that solid base, and many more people attracted into the game.

The irony is that SH5 not just killed itself, it also killed UBI's submarine gaming franchise and even also killed the amazing potential of his predecessor and our main hope of getting a fantastic and solid submarine simulator. That's for me reason enough to hate SH5 and lack any interest on it :nope:

[Myxale]

The irony is that SH5 not just killed itself, it also killed UBI's submarine gaming franchise and even also killed the amazing potential of his predecessor and our main hope of getting a fantastic and solid submarine simulator. :nope:


An interesting observation! And almost true!
The GWX team too had high hopes for SH5 hence them stopping on GWX4.

I think that one reason as to why SH4 bit it was the lack of support from Ubi. The whole series lacked proper support,and i think that the modders got tired looking for complicated workarounds for the simplest bugs and restriction.

It is still to early to give up on SH5. I really hope it too can become an solid platform for more.

[SteelViking]

I agree with TDW. I have worked pretty extensively with SH5, and I know for a fact that we have only scratched the surface of what the game engine can do. I don't think we should just throw away SHIII, but I am convinced that SH5 will be the future. Sure there are some obstacles in our path for further modding, but nothing that cannot be overcome with time. TDW has done tons of stuff that people thought was not possible, as have I. So, I of course believe that SH5 should be used as the base for future work.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi to all,

For me the question of finally having the game of my dream is coming alone in U-BOOTTYPIIA_HAHD for all the eye candy about 3d models i made my own props the way i want them to look.

So far since i am the only one testing it i can say that i will probably play with my mod for a very long time ahead.

SH5 was an attempt at grabbing a wider audience and unfortunately for the developers it was a massive failure.

Like i say in older posts people are getting poorer not richer so updating their computer is not what it used to be and don't expect thing to get better anytime soon!

So now the middle class is starting to see the true effect of what happen when a majority get poorer you won't get a lot of development, less games,less entertainment and less everything.

The game studio that are developing game for high end system are now starting to feel the pain for doing so.

The future of gaming is playability for the mass period.

The old school will prevail because the new one was rotting at the very beginning.

This is only my personal opinion on the matter since i have 15 years of experience in the field as a 3d and 2d artist and as a teacher in video game making.

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

SH5 as base game, adding the most popular features from SH3
That one. The features everyone likes about SH3 can be recreated much more easily in SH5 than the graphics and new features of SH5 could be retrofitted into SH3. The look and feel of the water and the new harbors is amazing; and I only know that from screenshots, since I don't even have the game!

Still, I agree with Hitman - SH4 is a great compromise in many ways, having SH3's flexibility and much better graphics and new features. I wonder if SH5's water is so far advanced it couldn't be imported into SH4?

[fitzcarraldo]

I like a SH5 without that ridiculous semi-nazi crew. I love the GUI without interact with the crew, from Sierra´s Aces of the Deep and SH1. I don´t know if exists a mod for eliminate the stock crew in SH5 and replace those guys with...nothing. Only the GUI and the sound answers, as SH4 (and SH3).

If a mod as Operation Monsun is more developed, I´ll leave SH3. But, for SH5 (I bought the game six months ago), only there are sweet hopes...I want to play now, and SH3 is alive.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Actually your questions had already a very solid response to our avail: The one which will probably rank first as most underrated submarine simulation in history ... Silent Hunter 4 :)

It is the perfect balance between the SH5 eyecandy and the SH3 gameplay, and has potential to surpass them both in their respective strong areas if developed hard enough. But there it is, collecting dust in many people's shelf, and far away from the attention of most of the talented modders. If it had received half the dedication and talent that SH5 already has, we would no doubt have the best ever submarine simulations. Sadly it didn't :shifty:, and probably the end of the GWX4 project meant the definitive burying of the promise SH4 had. With a GWX4 we would have seen many other mods flourish around that solid base, and many more people attracted into the game.

The irony is that SH5 not just killed itself, it also killed UBI's submarine gaming franchise and even also killed the amazing potential of his predecessor and our main hope of getting a fantastic and solid submarine simulator. That's for me reason enough to hate SH5 and lack any interest on it :nope:

Pretty much agree with what Hitman has posted and refuse to take issue with another individuals totally negative and IMHO 'biaised' comments.

One of the reasons GWX4 was cancelled and I repeat ONE was out of respect for Ubisoft and the developers of the forthcoming release of SH5.

Add to that the fact that some key members of the Grey Wolves were quite frankly knackered/worn out and in at least one instance paid a very personal price for their efforts, not to mention the constance war of words between different factions within the community.

Consider the above and let me quote a poignant statement from a team member shortly before the decision to pull the plug on GWX4 was taken....."Why are we busting a gut trying to teach a pig to sing when we already know in advance there is a newer SH release due"?

What we didn't know 'officially' at the time was the fact said release would be limited in time span and U-boat types.

I know Steve has already accurately stated publicly on this forum that some of the Grey Wolves have left, never to return, some remain and are working on one or two projects either singlehandedly or collectively and The Lair is not as busy as it has been in the past (he should know, he has unrestricted access) LOL.

Right now it is good too see fresh talent taking up the modding course and serving the community to the best of their abilities and long may it continue.

On a personal note I am simply awaiting the release of this and that....it is nice being the customer in the sweet shop for a change.

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Madox58]

There are ongoing projects by many to rape.........
I mean 'borrow' from SH5 for both SH3 and SH4.
Not that I have anything to do with that.
:03:
And one day, things will be placed in SH5 PROPERLY, from SH3 and SH4 also.

The old slugfests between SH3 - SH4 seem to be a thing of the past.
Lets not start a Ménage à trois between SH3/SH4/SH5!
:o

[FIREWALL]

I enjoy all 3 Silent Hunters. Each one has it's own flavor depending how it's modded.

I'm just thankfull for all the talented people at SubSim and their wonderful gifts. :salute:

With Multi-Install I have all versions to enjoy.:woot:

I only have one big problem.

I can only play them one at a time. :wah:

[Madox58]

Get 2 more systems, a divorce, and your good to go!
:up:

[Gerald]

I enjoy all 3 Silent Hunters. Each one has it's own flavor depending how it's modded.

I'm just thankfull for all the talented people at SubSim and their wonderful gifts. :salute:

With Multi-Install I have all versions to enjoy.:woot:

I only have one big problem.

I can only play them one at a time. :wah: You'll learn your wife any of the games, and the rest you can teach your nearest neighbor, :haha:

[Tigershark624]

Is there any chance, however slim, that GWX4 could be revived with a fresh team of eager young modders guided by the wizened involvement of as many of the old team that would be interested and able? If enough people got behind this I'm sure that the project could progress without burn-out. How close was it to being finished when it was abandoned?

[Madox58]

Not close enuff.
:nope:

And I've no idea how much of major parts may have been saved.
The Campaign work for one.
The 3D work on Harbors and Regalbau.
The new 3D modeled Subs and Ships and other Objects.
Your talking about a mass of work by many different Dev's,
all working thier specialty,
that was never complied into a collective group for safe keeping
to my knowledge.

I have bits and pieces, mere crumbs of what it was.
Prototype Tools that require the final files to be further edited.

But the Holy Grail is not real anymore.
Like the Knights Templer?
It will probably turn into a Myth.

GWX 4, for all that it was planned to be,
all the work in many radical areas,
(Which are being worked on daily now)
all the drive and real sacrifices each Member of
The Grey Wolves
made to try to further push a bar?

It's gone.
GWX 4 is a fantasy now.
I doubt any group could put together the right people,
in so many areas of knowledge,
keep them working nearly 40 hours a week,
place dead lines on them,
and they meet them.
And all for the weekly pay check of
ZILCH! ZIP! NAGDT!

So let GWX 4 remain where it is.
It's not the thing anyone should be worshipping or missing.
It should inspire the New modders if anything.
Just as the original GW inspired me,
Rumors of GWX 4 should inspire others.

Just my thoughts.
With Regards,
Privateer

[Tigershark624]

Not close enuff.
:nope:

And I've no idea how much of major parts may have been saved.
The Campaign work for one.
The 3D work on Harbors and Regalbau.
The new 3D modeled Subs and Ships and other Objects.
Your talking about a mass of work by many different Dev's,
all working thier specialty,
that was never complied into a collective group for safe keeping
to my knowledge.

I have bits and pieces, mere crumbs of what it was.
Prototype Tools that require the final files to be further edited.

But the Holy Grail is not real anymore.
Like the Knights Templer?
It will probably turn into a Myth.

GWX 4, for all that it was planned to be,
all the work in many radical areas,
(Which are being worked on daily now)
all the drive and real sacrifices each Member of
The Grey Wolves
made to try to further push a bar?

It's gone.
GWX 4 is a fantasy now.
I doubt any group could put together the right people,
in so many areas of knowledge,
keep them working nearly 40 hours a week,
place dead lines on them,
and they meet them.
And all for the weekly pay check of
ZILCH! ZIP! NAGDT!

So let GWX 4 remain where it is.
It's not the thing anyone should be worshipping or missing.
It should inspire the New modders if anything.
Just as the original GW inspired me,
Rumors of GWX 4 should inspire others.

Just my thoughts.
With Regards,
Privateer

For all you've done for the community, your word is sufficient. Let it rest in peace. Thanks.

[Jimbuna]

You'll learn your wife any of the games, and the rest you can teach your nearest neighbor, :haha:

:hmmm:

[Gerald]

Nothing to concern itself only one element of fatigue :yawn:

[Sailor Steve]

Is there any chance, however slim, that GWX4 could be revived with a fresh team of eager young modders guided by the wizened involvement of as many of the old team that would be interested and able? If enough people got behind this I'm sure that the project could progress without burn-out. How close was it to being finished when it was abandoned?
It would be possible for the people who created a lot of the best mods for SH3 to translate them to SH4.

Though as much as I wish for something like that, I don't see it ever happening.

[dcb]

To me, SH5 has the one single thing SH3&4 didn't have: a competent Uboat AI, hence the possibility of wolfpacks that behave like they should (sort of). After bugging and pestering the devs with it last year, after almost forcing them to spend a couple of months to hastily write the code, at a time when this whole feature had been dropped, I think we should give SH5 the chance to become the great sub sim it should have been in the first place. If not for something else, at least for the wolfpacks.

[Hitman]

I think we should give SH5 the chance to become the great sub sim it should have been in the first place. If not for something else, at least for the wolfpacks.

That is right, and of course I hope that SH5 gets further developed by modders, but to answer the question from the OP, I wanted to highlught how much Sh4 was a missed opportunity. Of course Sh5 might become a true star someday, but the thing is, the effort needed to make SH5 shine is proportionally much bigger than with SH4, since for the latter a lot of tools and knowledge from SH3 could be used directly.

[BigBANGtheory]

I am not a passionate modder (yet though I have modded other games), and I would consider myself fairly new to the SilentHunter franchise and can offer a point of view from this part of the comunity.

The PERFECT SIM to me would be playing a DasBoot campaign accurately resembling the mini-TV series and in my opinion (of limited weight granted) that can only be achieved in one of the two games as a base.

I would also wish to contribute to such a mod, and turn from player to modder/player.

[Robin40]

SH5 has a ridiculous campaign and an ominous crew management system

The perfect Sub Sim would be:

SH3+GWX with the graphics of SH5

May the modders gods help us:03:

[urfisch]

very interesting discussion here! thanks for all comments.

:salute:

SH5 has a ridiculous campaign and an ominous crew management system

The perfect Sub Sim would be:

SH3+GWX with the graphics of SH5

May the modders gods help us:03:


right you are! this would be the best sim ever.

That is right, and of course I hope that SH5 gets further developed by modders, but to answer the question from the OP, I wanted to highlught how much Sh4 was a missed opportunity. Of course Sh5 might become a true star someday, but the thing is, the effort needed to make SH5 shine is proportionally much bigger than with SH4, since for the latter a lot of tools and knowledge from SH3 could be used directly.

yes, hitman. this fact of having a lot more experience in sh3 (sh4) and a lot more possibilities in modding is why i asked myself this question of post no 1 - which game should be used as the core version for further modding on a so called "PERFECT SIM". the overall potential might be much bigger in sh5, i would agree to this point. but we do not have (and i dont think we will ever do) the ability to change things like the game structure itself. how to start missions, manage the whole crew again, etc. and also i have my doubts on beeing able to change/add content. privateer has done a lot on this! but if it will be possible ever, it will take very long. let me explain why...

:cry:

another fact that makes me feel, sh5 isnt the right choice is, many talented and skilled modders we had in sh3 (or sh4) are not onboard with sh5 any more. so the manpower might be another reason, why sh5 will never reach the state of an sh3. there a so many things still undiscovered, we need some passioned man to deal with ... not spoken of the tools we need to get further on.

why have so many skilled modders left with sh5? cause they where kicked in the ass by ubis "NEW GEN SUBSIM CONCEPT" and the very, very bad support for this game. some german mod group called "aces of the deep clan" has stopped working on their great mod "return of the aces" they started with the release of sh5. official reason is: "the game is so buggy and unfinished, no one of this team is motivated to repair all these errors, before you even can start modding itself". and also the so called "great and easy modability" of sh5, which was highly recommended by ubi, is not what was meant to be.

conclusion: to me sh5 is a big, raw diamond, which is complicated to handle and needs many experts to cut it. we might do have the needed experts, BUT we DO NOT have any more support by ubi - to tell how we should handle the diamond and which tools are used best.

:down:

[Nufsed]

conclusion: to me sh5 is a big, raw diamond, which is complicated to handle and needs many experts to cut it. we might do have the needed experts, BUT we DO NOT have any more support by ubi - to tell how we should handle the diamond and which tools are used best.

:down:[/QUOTE]

But!!! We do have TDW.

[tonschk]

I shelved SH3. SH3 is vastly inferior in comparison to SH5. I've only begun to figure out what SH5 can do. SH5 will be the best SH yet in time :yep: As of now SH3 can't touch it with mods - especially with my UIs mod, IRAI, Automation, Tutorials, Real navigation, and FX Update mods. Just finishing up lighthouses for SH5 currently :D. Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities :rock:

:DL I totally 100% Agree with :rock: TheDarkWraith :woot:

[Hitman]

another fact that makes me feel, sh5 isnt the right choice is, many talented and skilled modders we had in sh3 (or sh4) are not onboard with sh5 any more. so the manpower might be another reason, why sh5 will never reach the state of an sh3.

...

why have so many skilled modders left with sh5? cause they where kicked in the ass by ubis "NEW GEN SUBSIM CONCEPT" and the very, very bad support for this game.


In my opinion as modder, the main problem with SH5 is that while much more flexible than SH3 and a bit more flexible than SH4, the new functionality/flexibility has come at the cost of complicating modding the game.

So we now have an excellent basis ... that only a handful of talented guys with specific knowledge like The Dark Wraith or Privateer, for example, can actually mod in its core :stare:

If you check my own case, you will see that I learned to mod SH3 and produced several optics and GUI mods, but the new step in complication
with SH4 already stopped me there. With SH5 and Python knowledge required, I would not even bother trying to start it!!!

That's IMHO the main reason why many modders have stayed away from SH5, the enormous complication of modding it, which with SH3/4 was partially overcomed with Silent Editor, but in SH5 is ultimately still there.

[rocker_lx]

For me a good game is about immersion, this does mean for me that the graphics can never be good enough. I agree when people say that a dream would be SH5 with the campaign, U-boat types, equipment and time frame offered by SH3 (and maybe GWX).

I have high hopes in the work of privateer. I think SH5 has a nice future, if he can create a possibility to add all those things into SH5.
Also thanks to TheDarkWraith for creating this nice experience with his cool UIs.

[Obltn Strand]

Don't know about SH4&5 but I have my suspicions...
or modding or computers for that matter

A decent submarine simulator should have zig zagging ships.

[Schwieger]

so... what prevents modders from making SH3 look like SH5 graphic wise?

[JCWolf]

Hi there guys,


Here is my point of view as a SH3 Moder.


First after 3 years of making all kinds of graphic Mods and latter changing to larger mods of my own and merging along some other Mods upon my U.Boat releases i reached to a conclusion in the end, The first and most obvious one was that GWX was at least for me the Super Mod that really transported the SH3 game into its limits, as for game play and game engine capacity, GWX gave us all the extension and game upgrade that we and the game needed to finally be played in a totally different way and gave us a totally new experience.

from that a lot of new guys and other established moders made some important changes making at the end a game that we all loved and still love, but most of all, the doors were opened that we thought would never be opened, and the game jumped into a new level that I personally believe made UBI realize that could exploit the situation and launch 2 new New Sub Sim that in fact took the complete wrong direction, SH4 UBI's first attempt to refresh SH3 Game was in my opinion a failure cause of their choice of changing the Atlantic Scenery for the Pacific, Then later on SH5 another attempt from UBI to capture the Community again resulted in another bad move cause bring you to Middle Atlantic war taking us the all experience that we all loved in SH3...Game engines are the natural evolution in this 3 games, we all know that SH 4 and 5 have a superb game engine that is wasted in a game play that lacks horizon lines or if you want a better developed game base and story, With respect for the Pacific Sub war , nothing is compared to the German u-boat Atlantic campaign during the WWII years, so everything that UBI as done was taking out the "Candy" (SH3 Atlantic war) from the community and try to
change the outstanding community Modding creativity to explore new Sub Sim scenarios like the Pacific and then realizing their mistake go back to the German Atlantic war but again the wrong way by starting the game campaign in middle war....

I left the Modding Cause I had personal reasons but also cause the SH3
is in fact a game that is reaching its limits if didn't already, and cause his newest brothers are to limited yet to capture my creative vain....

I have all the SH3 games, stored and waiting for better days.

In my opinion, Sh4 is the game that can really support a major Modding change, Transporting the actual Pacific campaign to the Atlantic, with all the SH3 features and better graphics and with the possibility to had a lot more cause of its game engine...

...Can you imagine SH3 Ported to SH4 game and all the actual Major Mods that make SH3 a Land mark on this series?...

...Now imagine the modding possibility's that yet could be added into the game...


I think the community should be alert to this ...I still think that GWX is the right team to do it, I believe there are a lot of talented Modders in this place and that more can still born and make the SH4 the next SH3 sim...


But this are just my thoughts.:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

In my opinion, Sh4 is the game that can really support a major Modding change, Transporting the actual Pacific campaign to the Atlantic, with all the SH3 features and better graphics and with the possibility to had a lot more cause of its game engine...

...Can you imagine SH3 Ported to SH4 game and all the actual Major Mods that make SH3 a Land mark on this series?...
That's what I keep saying! Maybe they'll listen to you. :sunny:

[urfisch]

yes, maybe sh4 is the key to all our needs! i forgot to think about that...

[Schwieger]

If there was a way to transfer the damage control system of SH3 to SH4 it would go a long ways towards fixing one of the things I really dislike about SH4

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

Have been playing SH4 exclusively for several weeks, but no longer. The reason: too many CTDs (fully patched, with appropriate RFB mods). A necessary (but not sufficient) condition for a perfect sim is elimination of CTDs. Perfection is impossible, of course, but it still can be a target to aim for.

[Delareon]

Sh4 has lots of potential i agree also, the thing which keeps me really away from playing it is the Crew. Ok the SH3 Crew isnt an eye-candy but the Sh4 Crew looks way too much like a comic from my oppinion.
But this should be moddable. I havent experienced CTD's with SH4 but since my playtime in this part of the SH Series is very limited compared to SH3 i was just lucky maybe...

Are the CTD's a common issue or is it possible that they are "just" Mod-related?

SH5 is a no go for me, dont care about the possibilities in that case, my signature says enough about this i think...

[Sailor Steve]

so... what prevents modders from making SH3 look like SH5 graphic wise?
The transparent water is based on all-new internal stuff that, as far as I know, is impossible to retrofit. There is a mod that makes SH3's water look a lot like SH5's, but that whole transparency thing seems to be right out. Also, the ship models are much more advanced, using newer technology as well.

Have been playing SH4 exclusively for several weeks, but no longer. The reason: too many CTDs (fully patched, with appropriate RFB mods). A necessary (but not sufficient) condition for a perfect sim is elimination of CTDs. Perfection is impossible, of course, but it still can be a target to aim for.
I find SH4 to be much more stable. I pretty much never get CTDs in SH4, whereas SH3 is very touchy about what's installed.

Sh4 has lots of potential i agree also, the thing which keeps me really away from playing it is the Crew. Ok the SH3 Crew isnt an eye-candy but the Sh4 Crew looks way too much like a comic from my oppinion.
This seems to be a matter of personal taste. I think SH4's crew are much more acceptable.

[JCWolf]

That's what I keep saying! Maybe they'll listen to you. :sunny:


I believe that this pray was already listen my friend, what I believe is that such a work like porting the SH3 campaign and features to the SH4 game is in fact a huge work load that will probably take a long road to develop and that means time and mostly its free time that moves Modders here, it is a work that requires Patience and time, that right now is a key to real life engagements, it is a 1 or 2 years maybe more time task that also requires a lot of our real life time and that can be a problem for some of us that have not this time to give and dedicate building this huge work.

I would join any team that could do this, but I think that the only team that can really accomplish the task is the former GWX team along with some more valued reenforcements...:salute:

[Capt. Morgan]

As I sit stationary in my IIa at 512X TC, in the North Sea, waiting for the Hurricane to abate (7 days straight of zero visibility/15Kps winds), I have to say that I am hoping that someday soon, Op Monsoon will fully catch up to GWX.

SH4 + OpMonsoon + OMEGU is pretty close right now in terms of enjoyable play - if not number of cool mods available, but If parts of the New Interior mod can be successfully integrated into a SH4-type-IXD (Nine Delta Two), I imagine others will follow as OpMonsoon expands.

From reading this forum I hold no hope for GWX4 restarting, just as I hold none for an SH4-Commander, but I do hope that Op Monsoon will continue their work, and I'd say that is the best hope for the ultimate ATO subsim.

[Sailor Steve]

I believe that this pray was already listen my friend, what I believe is that such a work like porting the SH3 campaign and features to the SH4 game is in fact a huge work load that will probably take a long road to develop and that means time and mostly its free time that moves Modders here, it is a work that requires Patience and time, that right now is a key to real life engagements, it is a 1 or 2 years maybe more time task that also requires a lot of our real life time and that can be a problem for some of us that have not this time to give and dedicate building this huge work.
I know it would be a lot of work. I too would be glad to pitch in wherever I could. What frustrates me is that so many have put so much time into making mods for SH3 that could be converted for SH4 without too much more trouble. I just wish I had the skills to do that kind of work.

From reading this forum I hold no hope for GWX4 restarting, just as I hold none for an SH4-Commander, but I do hope that Op Monsoon will continue their work, and I'd say that is the best hope for the ultimate ATO subsim.
Unfortunately OM was mostly a one-man operation, and Lurker not only doesn't mod SH4 anymore, he doesn't even post here.

[Madox58]

I know it would be a lot of work. I too would be glad to pitch in wherever I could. What frustrates me is that so many have put so much time into making mods for SH3 that could be converted for SH4 without too much more trouble. I just wish I had the skills to do that kind of work.


There's many kinds of skills needed today.
Is there a Mod for SH3 you'd like to see in SH4?
Contact the original Modder, get the permissions and all the files.
Then post that you've done the leg work.
Someone is bound to say
"WTH!! The hard part is done, I'll go ahead and do this!"
Now you just may get that added to SH4.
You never know Who is doing What now days.
:yep:

[Reece]

another fact that makes me feel, sh5 isnt the right choice is, many talented and skilled modders we had in sh3 (or sh4) are not onboard with sh5 any more. so the manpower might be another reason, why sh5 will never reach the state of an sh3. there a so many things still undiscovered, we need some passioned man to deal with ... not spoken of the tools we need to get further on.

why have so many skilled modders left with sh5? cause they where kicked in the ass by ubis "NEW GEN SUBSIM CONCEPT" and the very, very bad support for this game. some german mod group called "aces of the deep clan" has stopped working on their great mod "return of the aces" they started with the release of sh5. official reason is: "the game is so buggy and unfinished, no one of this team is motivated to repair all these errors, before you even can start modding itself". and also the so called "great and easy modability" of sh5, which was highly recommended by ubi, is not what was meant to be.

conclusion: to me sh5 is a big, raw diamond, which is complicated to handle and needs many experts to cut it. we might do have the needed experts, BUT we DO NOT have any more support by ubi - to tell how we should handle the diamond and which tools are used best.

:down:Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!:yep:

[JCWolf]

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!:yep:


Reece my friend...

long time no see !:salute:

agree with your post totally.

[JScones]

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!:yep:
Yes, that's what I don't understand. Logic would suggest that you'd want to get a solid foundation first before building up into the lofty heights, yet with SH5 we're seeing extensions being built upon extensions. A shame, and with that approach it won't take long before the house of cards starts to fall. I mean, if you are new to SH5 now, there's no simple "add this one mod first as a base to get yourself stable, then choose what you want from this, this, this and this..."; it's just "good luck to ya, here's my random mods list which amazingly works fine for me...but ymmv. Someone will be along shortly to post a completely different mods list for ya".

A far better approach would have been, in the known absence of Ubisoft, to develop an unofficial community v1.3 "patch" that focused solely on fixing the bugs, at least those that could be "fixed" by modders. No subjective content, just fixes.

Yet after nine months we still have largely disparate and peripheral mods, most of which now are mere updates to mods that have been around for most of those nine months; in other words, no recent real big tangible (ie delivered, not just spoken of) breakthroughs (although the additional merchants is a nice start).

What I find poignant is that some of the most staunch defenders of SH5 before its release are now nowhere to be seen. Either they love the game so much that they play it 24/7 and don't have time for a break, or they've silently sunk below the waves. The clock keeps ticking...

[Reece]

Reece my friend...

long time no see !:salute:

Good to see you again too, and you as well Jaesen, hope you both had a good Christmas and wish you both a Happy New Year.:yep:

[rik007]

At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they didnot reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The immersion in SH3 with GWX and other mods such as FM New Interior remains on top. Because it is simple and gives you the best feeling how it should have been some 70 years ago.

My idea (or dream) is that if UBI releases the source-code and tooling for SH3 that we could add the so long missed Wolfpacks, real surface attacks and fixes for the long very well known list of bugs. I'm sure we then will have the ultimate sim.

I wish you all that that happens in 2011 and that the stuck in the middle with the SH-series will end as well as the silence from Ubi. Happy 2011!

[Hitman]

A far better approach would have been, in the known absence of Ubisoft, to develop an unofficial community v1.3 "patch" that focused solely on fixing the bugs, at least those that could be "fixed" by modders. No subjective content, just fixes.

Yup, that's exactly what Webster did for SH4 with his "Game Fixes Only" mod, and it was simply an excellent idea :up: but it sadly lacked success as a "common ground base" because by the time it was complete, many people had not waited and there were already lots of mods around.

Seems that lesson was -like many others- again not learned for SH5 :nope:

[BigBANGtheory]

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!:yep:

This would make a lot of sense after the SH5 Mega-mod is available, since clearly some of the gameplay/bug problems have been fixed or partially fixed.

[Stiebler]

Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they did not reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The problem was that the development team kept changing between SH3/4/5, and the later devs had difficulty understanding the code of their predecessors. This was stated specifically by one of the ex-devs in the SH5 main thread at SubSim, who used the word 'impossible' to describe the likelihood of any further development of SH5 from the same code base.

I pointed up in the same thread that, logically, this meant that there could never have been any extension pack planned for SH5, despite widespread belief among game players that this was coming next. No one denied the assertion.

You really cannot blame the devs. The most casual survey of threads for SH3, SH4 and SH5 shows that the strongest requirement among the great majority of players is for improved graphics and pointless graphical detail (repositioned flags, repainted propellers, that kind of trivia). Who cares about game play? (excepting a few eccentrics, presumably including the readers of this thread.) The great majority got the logical extension of what they wanted in the end, with SH5. Just sail round and round your home port, admiring the scenery.

My idea (or dream) is that if UBI releases the source-code and tooling for SH3... Why should they?
You might offer to pay for the code, though. But then, it is unlikely that anyone can understand it now, if the original devs could not.

Stiebler.

[tonschk]

At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they didnot reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The immersion in SH3 with GWX and other mods such as FM New Interior remains on top. Because it is simple and gives you the best feeling how it should have been some 70 years ago.




At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH3. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim

[Sailor Steve]

Everybody is disappointed by SH3.
Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.
Sigs that are political or religous in nature may only be displayed in General Topics. Only naval-oriented sigs are allowed in the naval and game forums.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=how_stuff_works_faq#faq_signature_imag e_faqs

[Jimbuna]

Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=how_stuff_works_faq#faq_signature_imag e_faqs

Careful Steve, it is just possible his forum password has been 'compromised' AGAIN and somebody is posting using his name :DL

[rik007]

The problem was that the development team kept changing between SH3/4/5, and the later devs had difficulty understanding the code of their predecessors. This was stated specifically by one of the ex-devs in the SH5 main thread at SubSim, who used the word 'impossible' to describe the likelihood of any further development of SH5 from the same code base.

I pointed up in the same thread that, logically, this meant that there could never have been any extension pack planned for SH5, despite widespread belief among game players that this was coming next. No one denied the assertion.

You really cannot blame the devs. The most casual survey of threads for SH3, SH4 and SH5 shows that the strongest requirement among the great majority of players is for improved graphics and pointless graphical detail (repositioned flags, repainted propellers, that kind of trivia). Who cares about game play? (excepting a few eccentrics, presumably including the readers of this thread.) The great majority got the logical extension of what they wanted in the end, with SH5. Just sail round and round your home port, admiring the scenery.

Why should they?
You might offer to pay for the code, though. But then, it is unlikely that anyone can understand it now, if the original devs could not.

Stiebler.

I didnot know & it is a pitty. I do not blame the devs. I understood that development of DirectX prohibited further development of the original code not that it was unstructeredly build and could not be understood anymore. Even though the algorithms could have been reused at least.

[Reece]

Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=how_stuff_works_faq#faq_signature_imag e_faqs
Easy does it Policeman Steve, I think it is a typo, I think he meant SH5, if so I would agree!:yep:

[Stiebler]

@Rik007:

I said in my post above: You really cannot blame the devs.Sorry Rik, I intended to use the word 'you' as an impersonal plural, as in 'One really cannot blame the devs.'

I did not intend to refer to you personally.

Stiebler.

[rik007]

@Rik007:

I said in my post above: Sorry Rik, I intended to use the word 'you' as an impersonal plural, as in 'One really cannot blame the devs.'

I did not intend to refer to you personally.

Stiebler.

No problem at all. As far as a blaim goes: the devs could have structured the code more so SH3 could have been reused but they were undoubtedly under time-pressure and other restrictions. Still SH3 remains the top-game. It should have been the base for the sequel. The game-engine should then have been preserved as it has a good balance. Of course debugged and improved while the eye-candy could then have been added as well as all the other feauture we all miss.

But of course I'm dreaming now. Probably the maximum is that we can export the 3D objects from SH5 into 3D Max - as already achieved - and import them into SH3. After playing for some time with SH5 my opinion is that it will never fly. Maybe I should try it again but I rather spent my time in campaigning in SH3.

[JCWolf]

Oops......

I think he meant sh5 as Reece says!

Thought his sig really is a political argumentation and might even be considered a offense to others and lack of respect for a country.

I think Steve just targeted his Sig, I Would do the same, this sig is
of very bad taste.

[Robin40]

No problem at all. As far as a blaim goes: the devs could have structured the code more so SH3 could have been reused but they were undoubtedly under time-pressure and other restrictions. Still SH3 remains the top-game. It should have been the base for the sequel. The game-engine should then have been preserved as it has a good balance. Of course debugged and improved while the eye-candy could then have been added as well as all the other feauture we all miss.

But of course I'm dreaming now. Probably the maximum is that we can export the 3D objects from SH5 into 3D Max - as already achieved - and import them into SH3. After playing for some time with SH5 my opinion is that it will never fly. Maybe I should try it again but I rather spent my time in campaigning in SH3.

That's THE idea....:up:

[urfisch]

yep...this is the maximum. but we also may get some fx-effects from sh5 into sh3. fire, smoke, etc...

[Sailor Steve]

I think he meant sh5 as Reece says!
No, he is on record saying SH5 is the best thing since sliced bread and anything SH3 is garbage. I can understand his anger at the people who trolled the SH5 boards with nothing but complaints, but that doesn't mean he needs to come here and do the same. What makes it worse is that he is not someone who ever discusses the situation - he only makes limited one-time statements such as the one in this thread.

A favorite quote from Benjamin Franklin, which in my opinion applies to him perfectly: "Praise-All and Blame-All are two blockheads".

[rik007]

yep...this is the maximum. but we also may get some fx-effects from sh5 into sh3. fire, smoke, etc...

Urfisch, Robin40,

That is still a lot of work. Of course we do not get a better sim but possibly a more fancy one. I do not consider putting my time into an attempt... Although I will have a glance like everybody does at its own.

Rik

[Ducimus]

Actually your questions had already a very solid response to our avail: The one which will probably rank first as most underrated submarine simulation in history ... Silent Hunter 4 :)

It is the perfect balance between the SH5 eyecandy and the SH3 gameplay, and has potential to surpass them both in their respective strong areas if developed hard enough. But there it is, collecting dust in many people's shelf, and far away from the attention of most of the talented modders. If it had received half the dedication and talent that SH5 already has, we would no doubt have the best ever submarine simulations.


I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1461193&postcount=2594)

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.

.
The old slugfests between SH3 - SH4 seem to be a thing of the past.
:o

I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171443),..... here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1448920&postcount=121)...... and here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1449876&postcount=139)....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.

Have been playing SH4 exclusively for several weeks, but no longer. The reason: too many CTDs (fully patched, with appropriate RFB mods).

CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

[Madox58]

I see SH4 getting attention real soon.
Many Modders waited for the release of SH5 as it was 'Highly Modifiable".
What we didn't know was you can't add PROPER Units.
By proper I mean new Units done right.
Not cfg trickery that mostly only works for a few additional Units.
Just what I want to do, Hunt the SAME Units Over and Over!
While I work on a solution to SH5 Unit imports?
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.
:03:

[Reece]

Yes I can vouch that Ducimus' Nine Delta Two was an excellent add-on for SH4, the only thing I missed was the SH3 campaign style, German ports and the Atlantic.:yep:
privateer said:
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.
:03:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/ArteJohnson.jpg
Very Interesting!

[rik007]

I do not see that by adding some units to SH5 something actually changes in the situation but I do not think that Privateer means that.

One of the aspects of SH4 what should be improved are the voices which do sound bad in SH4 as they are English. I had some crazy idea to do them over. A combined mod with contribution of well known modders of the community.

[makman94]

with the ubi trying to turn a whole community (which is full of passioned sub simulator fans) only to some 2d image editors or 3d importers-exporters ....you will all believe ,at the end , that the 'goal' is to manage to import some 3d models ingame or to 'heal' sh5's bugs...
well ,this is not healthy modding gentlemen !
from day one they should have give to modders tools for importing-exporting...this is not big deal and IS NOT CHANGING THE GAME and eventually is not MODDING the game .there is no difference at the game itself if you have to sink 10 different ships or...200 ships .
why they are not giving the tools ? i know the answer but i can't (and don't want ) to say about it in public but it is not so hard to think about the reason.(and i also believe that Skawjer and Jscones is the worst nightmare the guys at ubi-romania have )
sh5 brings nothing new in its code and maybe TDW believes that scripts can 'save' ubi's crap again .why 'crap'? becuase it is not a sub sim(also sh3 and sh4 are not sims...the only thing that is simulated is the manual targeting) ...it is a game for kids with some...'sub' in its files.this is the big fail of sh5 (not the bugs and neither the drm) ...it 'betrates' the last 'hopes' to see a SIMULATOR from ubi-romania...they choosed the easy way(a simple sub game) just to get some money in their pockets
...sh5...a ''5'' that is only a shame for a 2010 game. if you want to see pround ''5''s look at resident evil 5 or at gran turismo 5 ....these are real ''5''s from games fifth sequels on 2010 !

..... Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities :rock:.....

@for TDW(really no offence to you ,although, it may seems so):

can 'your' scripts add PROPER and complete physics to ships-subs that devs didn't add to sh5's code ?

can 'your' scripts add a proper and complete model for the sound's travelling in water or a complete simulation of sonarman's station that devs didn't add to sh5's code ?

can 'your' scripts add a correct code for making the sensors works
properly at last that devs didn't fix neither to sh3's neither to sh4's and now neither to sh5's code? wtf,are doing these guys...ruining things?at each sequel are just getting...worst (in case that you ''miss'' it ,sensors NEVER worked correct-night vampires- becuase of bad programming .... tell me,did you managed to solve this at your IRAI mod?)

can 'your' scripts add a complete code for having a working radar that devs didn't add to sh5's code?(radar....it is like a ..joke even to mention it)

and there are more to add to this list...
if i am wrong at this and devs have actually add something to sh5's code well ...please somebody ask them to tell us (and why not ..to advertise their work) at last what exactly they have add !i also want to know but ...THEY ARE NOT SAYING (is it...secret?)!

you see, TDW,i believe that the sh5 is actually the waste of time ... it needs too much work for nothing hot at the end..nothing ..new!
now ,if i am wrong, and 'your' scripts can add the aboves then ...i take back everything i said and i will agree and say the same thing with you:''yes,there is a potential to this game'' but if 'your' scripts can't add the aboves....where is that potential that you see ?to the nicer...graphics ,to the Kpt 'Forest Gump' or to the engine room ? (in which, btw,are allready totally lose by Flakmonkey's or Tomi's engines)
and ,now , that the 'road' is open at sh3 for editing the executables (have a look at H.Sie's thread) , i am sure that you can make 'miracles' with your knowledge .

ps: happy new year to every subsimer with health and smiles !

[h.sie]

@Makman94: Thanks for mentioning "my" thread. But with assembler and without SDK one can only change / add little things. No big deal is possible (for me).

I agree in many aspects you mentioned in your post above, but why are we both wasting our time with a - as you said - sub 'game' , since it is clear that we'll never get a sim that satisfies our wishes? would we both play if there were a perfect subsimulator? I doubt that.

[urfisch]

I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1461193&postcount=2594)

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.



I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171443),..... here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1448920&postcount=121)...... and here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1449876&postcount=139)....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.



CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

i feel ashamed, never seen this...an beeing honest, never expected this! REALLY great work ducimus! maybe we should convince some people from sh5 modding going back to sh4?

[Hitman]

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ... :wah:

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed :damn: For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! :sunny: And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3 :nope:

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

[fitzcarraldo]

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ... :wah:

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed :damn: For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! :sunny: And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3 :nope:

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Robin40]

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

I'm going on to start a OM campaign plus Real Environment and stock scope GUI

But I love sh3 crew management and are bored of the sh4 one anyway

Maybe is there a mod that transfers sh3 crew mng to sh4?

[Sailor Steve]

Really? I hate having to drag the little guys back and forth every four hours. I do it anyway because I feel guilty or feel like I'm cheating if I don't, but SH4's auto-crew is much more realistic. That's the way they do it in real life.

[Ducimus]

we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed :damn: For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! :sunny: And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3 :nope:



QFE.

[Myxale]

Wow, Duci, I wasn't even aware!

I got SH4 way back out of solidarity to Ubi, and the Genre, but I never really got into it, since I'm not much of a Fleet-Boater.:shifty:

And combing the cluttered SH4 Forums was kinda a pain. And I didn't have the time to Start following yet another Modding endeavor to the point of understanding it like i do SH3.

But you're right of course; It really seems that we can easier put SH3 into SH4 that in SH5.

[Schwieger]

I'm going on to start a OM campaign plus Real Environment and stock scope GUI

But I love sh3 crew management and are bored of the sh4 one anyway

Maybe is there a mod that transfers sh3 crew mng to sh4?

Keep the SH4 crew management, but transfer the SH3 damage control system over..

[Robin40]

Really? I hate having to drag the little guys back and forth every four hours. I do it anyway because I feel guilty or feel like I'm cheating if I don't, but SH4's auto-crew is much more realistic. That's the way they do it in real life.

you don't have to do it if you activate the 8 hour fatigue GWX mod


The GWX team believes we have found an approach that allows an intuitive approach to managing crew fatigue and stress while limiting the need to have the player intervene in the daily operation of the U-boat in line with real world U-boat operations. In this case, ―fatigue‖reflects the need for sleep and the degradation of human efficiency in a sleep-deprived state as well as ―stress,‖which is what the military called ―battle fatigue‖during World War II and what is known today as ―combat stress reaction.


GWX Manual

[Ducimus]

Wow, Duci, I wasn't even aware!
After all the past drama between mod groups and fan groups, it's not surprising and understandable.

I got SH4 way back out of solidarity to Ubi, and the Genre, but I never really got into it, since I'm not much of a Fleet-Boater.:shifty:

I did too. Infact, i bought the game twice (D2D first go around). As for being a "fleet boater", think of fleet boats as being a Type 9 on steroids. If your a type 9 fan, it's an easy transition. In fact, it will spoil you. If your a type 7 fan, it wouldn't hold much interest.

And combing the cluttered SH4 Forums was kinda a pain. And I didn't have the time to Start following yet another Modding endeavor to the point of understanding it like i do SH3.

A few details like Damage control is different, as is the UI. But the overall concepts and details of the simulation remain unchanged. Much of what you know and understand in SH3, is applicable to SH4.


But you're right of course; It really seems that we can easier put SH3 into SH4 that in SH5.

SH4 is however, not without its own set of issues. I just want to make sure that is understood. SH5 is worse in the "issues" department because it takes some of the unresolved issues in SH4, and add's its own on top of that. So in SH5, you have double the bugginess, double the "fun". What's worse is some of the fixes developed in SH4, no longer work in SH5. On top of that i've read that the statemachineCtr no longer works in SH5. That's a big kick in the nuts if you ask me.

At any rate, its my personal opinion that technology has moved away from SH3 as a game engine. There won't be any new submarine sim's for a very long time. Maybe never. So your left with SH4 or SH5 as a platform. (unless you don't mind "compatiblity modes" ) The former of which uses good ole, workable dat files, (as opposed to granny), has DDS texture compression, is a campaign writers wet dream ( I suppose SH5 is too, but its much harder to understand), and doesn't include a DRM.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi fellows shipmates,

As i follow that thread without intervention i could see a lot of humor emerging from it and i said to my self why not adding an epitaph for sH5 in my mod:har:

RIP Sh5 the game that kill the franchise forever, sorry guys i could resist:salute:

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

you don't have to do it if you activate the 8 hour fatigue GWX mod
I do use the 8-Hour Fatigue. Most of them last about 6, the engine room crew last 4. If a storm comes up the watch and engine crew must be rotated every 2 hours.

I don't like it, but I put up with it because of all the other SH3 goodies.

With SH4 they rotate themselves, which is exactly what they do in real life.

[Robin40]

With SH4 they rotate themselves, which is exactly what they do in real life.

yep...but it's so boring

and I noticed that they never get fatigued

instead in SH3 after a battle or days of stormy weather crew mng becomes essential

[denis_469]

About question I can say next:
1 - engine SH 5 is very good
2 - very hard made mod with SH 5. In SH 3 game was very good thinking and friendly for modding
3 - main weaks SH3 is (in my see) elderly engine and poor (in this time) grafics.
4 - SH 3 have many (now I have near 900-1000 ships and planes for SH 3) units what made for game. Like this have many land structures and objects made for SH 3. This very large database units can made excellent mods for game. In 2007 year I made my large mod "War Elite v.2.0" with use my data about germane submarine war WWII. And after it mod I can not made nothing more best, then "War Elite v.2.0" so I see game engine limited.
5 - SH 3 have limits in torpedo types in number torpedoes. It's problem can be cancel if rise number torpedoes types defore 1000 (for example). It can help made mods with more countryes (like it was in SH 4). Also SH 3 have limit on submarine types what can cancel if limite rise before 1000 types (for example)
6 - SH 5 have full submarines modelleing, but in my see it's was made before time, so it decision need more then power computers and most peoples in world can not buy sich power computers. In my see UBI need return in to modelling submarine like SH3/4.
7 - UBI need made AI subs what can dive and rise and launch torpedoes like it was in SH 1 (first game Silent hunter series).
8 - In my see UBI need return to graphic SH 3 game. My words base on base my mod "War Elite v.2.0". I see very large problem with weak video card during gaming in mod. It was so good modelling mod have many (few hundreds) various units (land, sea and air) and very large ships/planes routes. Good made mod need in more then hundreds various units for approachuing for reality. Every unit need video memory and every rout need no less then 1 unit and so need video memory.
9 - radio log (and possibility for modding) in SH 3 best then was made for SH4 and SH 5.
10 - UBI (if can made new germane sub sim) need made refueling (receive torpedoes) from submarines and ships in see before ending war patrol like it was in reality, but can not made in SH 3 total (engine limit).
11 - would be best, if UBI made detail patrol log with writing all facts during patrol.
12 - Mixies SH 3 and SH 5 not need, so SH3 have engine limit wat was use total in 2007 year in my mod "War Elite v.2.0". SH 5 not friendly for modding and I not see like can made mode like my "war Elite" in base SH 5 total...

It's my word about question topic autor. It's not all, but I not think, that UBI made SH 6 like normal subsim. So now in this time need to choose between good grafic and good gaming. Weaks computers and large cost modern computers not allow to have both that and other. In my see subsim would be with a stress on simulator, istead on a drawing.

[Hitman]

So your left with SH4 or SH5 as a platform. (unless you don't mind "compatiblity modes" ) The former of which uses good ole, workable dat files, (as opposed to granny), has DDS texture compression, is a campaign writers wet dream ( I suppose SH5 is too, but its much harder to understand), and doesn't include a DRM.

Yes exactly. The biggest problem with SH5 is not just its flaws and bugs, but also that it requires a much higher programming level to be modded. It might be more open, but not for the average modder, only for the ones with a background in software development :damn:

1 - engine SH 5 is very good
2 - very hard made mod with SH 5. In SH 3 game was very good thinking and friendly for modding
3 - main weaks SH3 is (in my see) elderly engine and poor (in this time) grafics.
4 - SH 3 have many (now I have near 900-1000 ships and planes for SH 3) units what made for game. Like this have many land structures and objects made for SH 3. This very large database units can made excellent mods for game. In 2007 year I made my large mod "War Elite v.2.0" with use my data about germane submarine war WWII. And after it mod I can not made nothing more best, then "War Elite v.2.0" so I see game engine limited.
5 - SH 3 have limits in torpedo types in number torpedoes. It's problem can be cancel if rise number torpedoes types defore 1000 (for example). It can help made mods with more countryes (like it was in SH 4). Also SH 3 have limit on submarine types what can cancel if limite rise before 1000 types (for example)
6 - SH 5 have full submarines modelleing, but in my see it's was made before time, so it decision need more then power computers and most peoples in world can not buy sich power computers. In my see UBI need return in to modelling submarine like SH3/4.
7 - UBI need made AI subs what can dive and rise and launch torpedoes like it was in SH 1 (first game Silent hunter series).
8 - In my see UBI need return to graphic SH 3 game. My words base on base my mod "War Elite v.2.0". I see very large problem with weak video card during gaming in mod. It was so good modelling mod have many (few hundreds) various units (land, sea and air) and very large ships/planes routes. Good made mod need in more then hundreds various units for approachuing for reality. Every unit need video memory and every rout need no less then 1 unit and so need video memory.
9 - radio log (and possibility for modding) in SH 3 best then was made for SH4 and SH 5.
10 - UBI (if can made new germane sub sim) need made refueling (receive torpedoes) from submarines and ships in see before ending war patrol like it was in reality, but can not made in SH 3 total (engine limit).
11 - would be best, if UBI made detail patrol log with writing all facts during patrol.
12 - Mixies SH 3 and SH 5 not need, so SH3 have engine limit wat was use total in 2007 year in my mod "War Elite v.2.0". SH 5 not friendly for modding and I not see like can made mode like my "war Elite" in base SH 5 total...

-SH4 does already have instant resupply (Milk Cows) without having to reach a base and cock there.

-It also supports many more units,

- And there is a certain AI for torpedoes, as planes do actually drop them :yep: (Yes we have plane-dropped FIDOS in the german campaign late in the war!!:D)

There have been already some close attempts to add AI subs in SH4, IABL has managed one to dive and surface, and IIRC Privateer did too and showcased it with a Type XXIII. I bet that if many talented modders joined forces, some kind of satisfactory wolfpack action could be added to SH4 :up:

[denis_469]

-SH4 does already have instant resupply (Milk Cows) without having to reach a base and cock there.

-It also supports many more units,

- And there is a certain AI for torpedoes, as planes do actually drop them :yep: (Yes we have plane-dropped FIDOS in the german campaign late in the war!!:D)

There have been already some close attempts to add AI subs in SH4, IABL has managed one to dive and surface, and IIRC Privateer did too and showcased it with a Type XXIII. I bet that if many talented modders joined forces, some kind of satisfactory wolfpack action could be added to SH4 :up:

About SH 4 I know... But question was SH 3 and SH 5.
Planes - not submarine. But total UBI need made new game on base SH 3 with features SH 4 and SH 5...
And if can made germane subsin WWII UBI need insert new secret features like magic eye. Many subs have sich device. And was many other unknow total (now) germane submarine devices. And this device (magic eye) work and with Metox/naxos and with sonars. F.e. radio message "U-185" (07.04.1943) "... also reported that the magic eye still indicates location when this can no longer be detected by acoustic means."

And about SH 4 engine - this engine have similar limits like engine SH 3. And so I not made War Elite in SH 4 engine. SH grafic in best, then SH 3 and so gaming would be poor then SH 3. Engine limits not allow have like in SH 3 engine so grafic SH 4 need more resources....

[Myxale]

Reading this topic and seeing some of the potential, I started itching for my SH4 discs...

I really hope the modders and fans of SH3-SH4 will come together for a dialog as to what can be done or should...

[Sailor Steve]

yep...but it's so boring

and I noticed that they never get fatigued

instead in SH3 after a battle or days of stormy weather crew mng becomes essential
It may be boring to you, but it's less tiresome for most of us, and much more realistic. That said, you're right to want to play it your way. That I think SH4's management is a great improvement is just my opinion, so we can continue to disagree, and have fun doing it. :salute:

[Reece]

The main thing that bugged me with SH4 was the U-boat buoyancy, has this been fixed?:hmmm:
I would like to see an open campaign like SH3 with German ports and operation in the Atlantic.:up:
I tried OM but Lurker done a lot of things his way that I and a lot of others didn't like, and is very stubborn to change, however that is his right but I choose not to play it, my prerogative!:yep:

[Ducimus]

The main thing that bugged me with SH4 was the U-boat buoyancy, has this been fixed?:hmmm:


What was the uboat buoyancy problem specifically? On rails? Dive too fast? Or the below the 183 meter issue?

[Reece]

What was the uboat buoyancy problem specifically? On rails? Dive too fast? Or the below the 183 meter issue?
On rails, the boat sort of stayed still while the water moved around it rather than the water move around the boat, plus it was hard to hold the boat level and although in reality the boat had to move to maintain depth it seemed a little overdone, it has been awhile you may have solved most in your mod, I didn't play for long mainly due to the fact that I like the Atlantic with much shorter patrols, plus the PC died and had to reinstall Windows and never bothered to reinstall SH4!:oops: The boat in OM dived far too slow!!:yep:

[Schwieger]

speaking of SH4 why do the boats disappear around 500 meters? I ran into this using some of the Modern sub mods...

[Ducimus]

The "on rails" effect i believe is solved for the most part. Very rarely do you notice it now. The fix for that is a combination of factors, from draft and CG_height in any given boat's sim file, to enviormental adjustments in the scene.dat, but also what i think more importantly, is offsetting the boats parent nodel in the dat file.

When working on Nine Delta Two, i noticed that by offsetting the parent node backward or forward, AND to one side or the other, it helped create a rolling effect. At least i think it did. I recall seeing a marked improvement after doing that. Originally, the parent node was sitting at 0 on all axis's in the 3d rendering. That puppy rolls nicely i thought. Though it could be made better through one more avenue of approach that is a can of worms i just don't want to open (wave attunation settings in the sim.cfg file). Major domino effect by doing that.

[Ducimus]

speaking of SH4 why do the boats disappear around 500 meters? I ran into this using some of the Modern sub mods...


Legacy feature from SH3 as i recall. Depth charges go POOF at 300. I forget the exact depth, but at some point in SH3, your boat ceased to be rendered.

[rik007]

But total UBI need made new game on base SH 3 with features SH 4 and SH 5...

That is what I hope. A kind of back to basic, ie creating a simulator as close to reality as possible. SH3 has the raw feeling which comes closes to what we percieve as historical reality. The SH3 team did enough effort to get into touch with that, visiting the U-995, interviewing Hardegen (or an other captain). It seems to be lost in SH5. I can remember the total shock when the first screenshots appeared with the periscope-view, the map with the radar like view on ships with red and orange to indicate detection area's. If you remember the discussions on this site (+ mods) to even remove the soundtails from the map in SH3 because they were unrealistic you see how far we drifted away with SH5 from the PERFECT SIM.

[urfisch]

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

[makman94]

......
I agree in many aspects you mentioned in your post above, but why are we both wasting our time with a - as you said - sub 'game' , since it is clear that we'll never get a sim that satisfies our wishes? would we both play if there were a perfect subsimulator? I doubt that.

i am ....afraid that you are ....right ! :cry:

[rik007]

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

Me too. I didnot touch Sh4+addon for years and i plugged it in this week.

[ReallyDedPoet]

i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...


It is a great sim in it's own right :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable. i also belonged the the ones, who never gave sh4 a chance. i played it 2 hours and never again. too many bugs and missing features. BUT as to what i see now...

would be interesting to hear some sh5 modders opinions, like from thedarkwraith, etc...

I have no more interest in SH3 or SH4 (I think I had maybe 12 mins total interest in SH4 and then it turned into a dust collector). They are 'locked' as far as the amount of new and original content that can be added to them. SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them (barring game limitations of course :DL). I'm having a blast tinkering with SH5. Every day I learn something new about the game from trial and error or just experimenting. Some people say it's just a script - not so. It's a version of Python, a version that can access the .NET framework. This version of Python can also interact with DirectX (haven't gone there yet ;)). So in affect these so called scripts are a way of extending the game. Prime example of this is my Automation class (the tutorial feature of my UIs mod is part of Automation). I have put a script engine inside a script engine :D
Once we are able to import into GR2 format or modify existing GR2 models you'll see more and more people turning to SH5 :yep: Majority of the real core problems have been fixed and all we're really missing is ability to import new 3D models into the game.
Gameplay and immersion wise stock SH5 is crap, pure garbage. But with mods it's utterly enjoyable and fun :sunny:
For those who haven't tried SH5 with a good set of mods you are missing out (you need a powerful computer though to really see the game in all it's glory)

[Ducimus]

They are 'locked' as far as the amount of new and original content that can be added to them.

Only locked amount of new/original content in SH4, that I'm aware of, is how many playable sub's you can have. The butt kicker in this regard is the Unitparts files in the UPCData directory. They're numbered sequentially, and once you run through numbers 1 through 9, the game gets wonky. So i believe, one is limited to theortical 9 playable, original submarine models, per side of the war. (possibly 8 if we're dealing with a null termination point in a fixed array somewhere in the game code) I know in TMO i'm at the max number for the allies, and can't add anymore.

(edit: that would be two S boats (inheirted), Narwhal, Porpoise, Salmon/Sargo(inheirted), Tambor/Gar(inheirited), Gato, Balao, and Tench classes. So.. that would be 8 boats total.)

[Ducimus]

after reading further on here, it seems as if sh4 has, beside the scriptability of sh5, the most potential to fit all our needs - unbelievable.

It has potential, but they're will always be short comings. Back to the thread title. The Perfect sim?

Take SH3, and then from SH4 add the following:

1 multiple resolutions and Wide screen support
2 DDS texture compression
3 direct X shader rendering
4 how the campaign is structured/written
5 fast loading times
6 ability to play either side of the war.
7 slightly higher poly count on some 3d models and normal mapping.

That, is really all there is to be gained. What's to be lost is:

1 crewman not changing to wet gear in high winds. (no need for any more foul weather gun mods i guess.)

2 diving and loitering at or below 200 meters due to negative bouyancy issue.

3 sonarman no longer calls out depth charges. (though there is a great workaround for this that works just as well as a sonarman)

4 familiar and old UI with interactive crew when clicked upon. (you could leave in the, "looking at the captain" animation, but there's no real need for it anymore since the menu system is different.)


The kick in the crotch is issues 1 through 3 carried over into SH5 and some the fixes/workarounds no longer work there. Some object controllers that worked in 3 and 4 no longer seem to work either.

At any rate, there's always potential, in ANY title, but perfect? That will never happen. All SH titles have their issues.

[Robin40]

Well...I think that up to this time the best sim is SH3 with Megamod. GWX or LSH3

All what you need it is to improve graphics...that's the perfect sim

Ah...SH3_GWX with the graphics of SH5:up:

[Schwieger]

It has potential, but they're will always be short comings. Back to the thread title. The Perfect sim?

Take SH3, and then from SH4 add the following:

1 multiple resolutions and Wide screen support
2 DDS texture compression
3 direct X shader rendering
4 how the campaign is structured/written
5 fast loading times
6 ability to play either side of the war.
7 slightly higher poly count on some 3d models and normal mapping.

That, is really all there is to be gained. What's to be lost is:

1 crewman not changing to wet gear in high winds. (no need for any more foul weather gun mods i guess.)

2 diving and loitering at or below 200 meters due to negative bouyancy issue.

3 sonarman no longer calls out depth charges. (though there is a great workaround for this that works just as well as a sonarman)

4 familiar and old UI with interactive crew when clicked upon. (you could leave in the, "looking at the captain" animation, but there's no real need for it anymore since the menu system is different.)


The kick in the crotch is issues 1 through 3 carried over into SH5 and some the fixes/workarounds no longer work there. Some object controllers that worked in 3 and 4 no longer seem to work either.

At any rate, there's always potential, in ANY title, but perfect? That will never happen. All SH titles have their issues.

Is it possible to add the following?

[rik007]

SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them (barring game limitations of course :DL). I'm having a blast tinkering with SH5. Every day I learn something new about the game from trial and error or just experimenting.....

Once we are able to import into GR2 format or modify existing GR2 models you'll see more and more people turning to SH5 :yep: ...

Gameplay and immersion wise stock SH5 is crap, pure garbage. But with mods it's utterly enjoyable and fun :sunny:


Can I conclude that your fun with SH-5 is hacking in python? From that perspective I can understand this is the game for you. :)

This week I plugged in SH4+add on. I got irritated by the English voices so I created a mod replacing them by the SH-3 german voice just to discover after it was finished that such a mod was already available :damn:

I plugged the SH-5 DVD in this morning to give it another try. Installed all the mods - including yours which are excellent by the way - but I still cannot get the feeling into this game. I hope we can remove all the fancy features from it making it simple as it was 70 years ago. I do not see that adding some new units will raise enthousiasm to create another GWX. It is not worth it.

[Myxale]

I hope we can remove all the fancy features from it making it simple as it was 70 years ago.

Can you expand what features you mean??

[fitzcarraldo]

Can I conclude that your fun with SH-5 is hacking in python? From that perspective I can understand this is the game for you. :)

This week I plugged in SH4+add on. I got irritated by the English voices so I created a mod replacing them by the SH-3 german voice just to discover after it was finished that such a mod was already available :damn:

I plugged the SH-5 DVD in this morning to give it another try. Installed all the mods - including yours which are excellent by the way - but I still cannot get the feeling into this game. I hope we can remove all the fancy features from it making it simple as it was 70 years ago. I do not see that adding some new units will raise enthousiasm to create another GWX. It is not worth it.

If we can conserve the graphics in SH5 and eliminate the "interactive play", plus the gameplay from GWX, we´ll have a great subsim. I don´t like the comic crew and the interactive play. I like a GUI as SH3 or SH4 (evolution of the oldies SH1 and Sierra´s Aces of the Deep).

I think we can make great things with SH4 OM, it´s the base.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[urfisch]

I have no more interest in SH3 or SH4 (I think I had maybe 12 mins total interest in SH4 and then it turned into a dust collector). They are 'locked' as far as the amount of new and original content that can be added to them. SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them (barring game limitations of course :DL). I'm having a blast tinkering with SH5. Every day I learn something new about the game from trial and error or just experimenting. Some people say it's just a script - not so. It's a version of Python, a version that can access the .NET framework. This version of Python can also interact with DirectX (haven't gone there yet ;)). So in affect these so called scripts are a way of extending the game. Prime example of this is my Automation class (the tutorial feature of my UIs mod is part of Automation). I have put a script engine inside a script engine :D
Once we are able to import into GR2 format or modify existing GR2 models you'll see more and more people turning to SH5 :yep: Majority of the real core problems have been fixed and all we're really missing is ability to import new 3D models into the game.
Gameplay and immersion wise stock SH5 is crap, pure garbage. But with mods it's utterly enjoyable and fun :sunny:
For those who haven't tried SH5 with a good set of mods you are missing out (you need a powerful computer though to really see the game in all it's glory)

yes, you are right. the scriptability is very nice and gives the game a lot of new features. BUT you forget, that even the scripting seems to have its limits - thus i do not see any chance, to change gameplay in sh5. the command structure and interface can be changed through scripting, but all the other things are very hard to change. am i wrong? please explain why!

this is where sh4 comes into the ring again. with all experience from modding sh3, which is quite a lot, a nicely modded sh4 would rise far over sh5. i love the graphics of sh5. but the overall gameplay and immersion is far from beeing such good as in sh3. the game structure of sh5 is the problem. it was designed to give you the feeling it gives now. an action game, no sim. even with changed mission objectives and more real parameters ingame, the core of the game will not change. and this is where the limits are. sad, but true.

any correction is welcome!

[rik007]

Can you expand what features you mean??

See fitzcarraldo comment in #107. The interactive gameplay and the map. I think that Ubi had better launched a cold war version instead of a WW-II sim with SH-5. Maybe even for the cold war the sim is too modern as the boats then where not more advanced as a type XXI.

[TheDarkWraith]

I like a GUI as SH3 or SH4 (evolution of the oldies SH1 and Sierra´s Aces of the Deep).

You have that option in SH5. I give you 3 UI choices: SH3, SH4, and SH5 Enhanced ;)

[rik007]

If we can conserve the graphics in SH5 and eliminate the "interactive play", plus the gameplay from GWX, we´ll have a great subsim. I don´t like the comic crew and the interactive play. I like a GUI as SH3 or SH4 (evolution of the oldies SH1 and Sierra´s Aces of the Deep).

I think we can make great things with SH4 OM, it´s the base.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

I must say that SH4 caught my intererest this week. I didnot touch this game for years but with the german voices it becomes acceptable. Who knows I gonna say that of SH5 within a few years although it would supprise me if we will get a SH6 announcement.

A lot of effort for SH5 has been invested into the interactive stuff which they should have put into the other aspects of the sim like Wolfpacks, more boats etc. There was nothing wrong with the SH4/5 approach GUI.

[TheDarkWraith]

A lot of effort for SH5 has been invested into the interactive stuff which they should have put into the other aspects of the sim like Wolfpacks, more boats etc. There was nothing wrong with the SH4/5 approach GUI.

Have you played SH5? It sounds like you haven't. Wolfpacks do exist in it and they do work (with my IRAI mod). I'll give you that we need more boats and ships but until we are able to import in the GR2 format that's not going to happen.

The UI can be made to be just like SH3 or SH4.

[Robin40]

If SH5 would have an acceptable campaign as GWX, WAC or LSH3, that would be fine

Otherwise it's a shoot'em game

[Hitman]

SH5 gives me the ability to program. And where one can program one can do just about whatever their imagination takes them

Yes, but that is exactly the problem. It gives YOU and only YOU and may be a few others with YOUR knowledge a chance. For 99% of modders like me, SH5 is as locked as Fort Knox. :nope:

[fitzcarraldo]

Yes, but that is exactly the problem. It gives YOU and only YOU and may be a few others with YOUR knowledge a chance. For 99% of modders like me, SH5 is as locked as Fort Knox. :nope:

...and if only a mate have the ability, when I´ll have SH5 modded and fine, the ultimate subsim will be SH8 - Gulf War!!!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Myxale]

See fitzcarraldo comment in #107. The interactive gameplay and the map. I think that Ubi had better launched a cold war version instead of a WW-II sim with SH-5. Maybe even for the cold war the sim is too modern as the boats then where not more advanced as a type XXI.

Aso, now I get what you mean.

[fitzcarraldo]

A question for the dedicated SH5 modders:

Is there for SH5 a GUI mod with the Angriffsscheibe? (as the MaGUI for SH3). Those funny things make a modded SH3 a great game...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

A question for the dedicated SH5 modders:

Is there for SH5 a GUI mod with the Angriffsscheibe? (as the MaGUI for SH3). Those funny things make a modded SH3 a great game...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

The RAOBF and Attack Disc have been incorporated into my UIs mod in SH5. They are also in Magnum Opus. :DL

[fitzcarraldo]

The RAOBF and Attack Disc have been incorporated into my UIs mod in SH5. They are also in Magnum Opus. :DL

Many thanks, Dark! I decide to reinstall my SH5 with all your mods. I watch the game conquest me...(SH3 is a hard adversary...).

What environment mod recommend you?

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[rik007]

Have you played SH5? It sounds like you haven't. Wolfpacks do exist in it and they do work (with my IRAI mod). I'll give you that we need more boats and ships but until we are able to import in the GR2 format that's not going to happen.

The UI can be made to be just like SH3 or SH4.

No I didnot try it But I'll give it a try. At least as appraisal for your work.

[Schwieger]

As for SH4 or even SH3, is it possible to add more SH5 like effects like visible internal flooding etc..?

[urfisch]

yes, but only with optical workarounds. real looking flooding will not be possible. you can only use particle emitters in the boat interior, which might present flooding.

[Schwieger]

yes, but only with optical workarounds. real looking flooding will not be possible. you can only use particle emitters in the boat interior, which might present flooding.

Someone should look more into this

[Hans Witteman]

Someone should look more into this


Hi shipmates,

I made some test and maybe we can fake the interior flooding but i won't play too much with that now but after my mod release i will have more time to look closely at it:up:

Best regards Hans

[Schwieger]

Hi shipmates,

I made some test and maybe we can fake the interior flooding but i won't play too much with that now but after my mod release i will have more time to look closely at it:up:

Best regards Hans

Ah,, just stow the idea away for future use, so to speak :sunny:

[lxpt]

reading all the posts i saw no answer to a simple question: can we change the campaign in sh5 to have all the subs, finishing in 1945 and have a scripted campaign like WAC 4.1 or GWX?
for me in personal i am no modder but i dont think sh5 will never have a interesting campaign but who am i?

but i recently discovored a work in a mod mayde by one man which i think it was great potencialy to be the best mod ever. please see this thread and make your own conclusions:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=156161&page=32

"Wolfes of the Kaiser"

sorry for my english:-?