New 'forgiving' fatigue model

[sub_optimal]

Hi everyone,

I'm interested in creating a new fatigue model, designed to balance historical accuracy and playability. Specifically, I want to make a system which is relatively forgiving when the player forgets about crew management for a bit, but which still leaves the crew generally tired out by the end of a long patrol.

I know that there has been a lot of very sophisticated discussion of fatigue modelling on these forums, unfortunately, much of it seems to have been dropped from the archives, so I don't have the benefit of it directly (unless somebody knows of a way to read old posts). I would very much appreciate comments and advice from those of you who are old hands at this kind of work.

1. Mysteries of the Modelling System

I've worked out, from context, that xx0 means 'surfaced' and xx1 means 'submerged'. Further, I think that 'regular' is non-combat and 'specific' is combat conditions.

I've also worked out what I think is the rank and compartment structure of the numbering system (see below).

I have two important questions, though:
a) How do you control the time compression level at which the fatigue model switches off?
b) Does anybody know, specifically, what the numerical values used in the model mean in practice?

2. Assumptions I Would Like To Make

Ideally, I would like a system in which the crew tires quickly, and rests up quickly. I would like extreme conditions (combat, bad weather) to be punishing to the crew, and cause them to tire, get stressed and injured and make mistakes. However, when this happens it's very difficult for them to recover, as the hot-bunking system provides space for only a fraction of the crew. This also makes the default system less 'forgiving' if the player forgets about crew management for a while (something that could never happen in reality). There are times in which I've tired the whole crew out, and just had to spend a couple of in-game days sitting at periscope depth, shuffling the little blighters through the bunks.

The most intuative way to create these conditions, to my mind, are a) to make the crew a little hardier by decreasing fatigue induced by work and b) to provide additional, alternate places for the crew to relax and recuperate while the bunks are full.

Compartment by Compartment:

Deck Watch
In good weather, this is a pleasant, fresh air duty. The crew should tire slowly, worn out only by the monotony of the horizon. In bad weather, on a U-boat, it's like riding a wild bull while standing under a waterfall. A four hour watch should leave any man tired to the bone. Combat is tricky, in this station: while being hunted, the position feels horribly exposed. While attacking a lone, unarmed ship, not so much. All in all, the feeling of exposure to random bullets should make this an unpleasant duty station in combat.

Guns – both deck and flak
Weather is not an issue here, as these stations cannot be manned in heavy seas. When not in combat, the crew is merely 'training' and values should be identical to the conning tower watch. While in combat, values should probably also be about the same, as the extra hard work of operating the gun will be offset by the psychological value of actually being able to shoot back at the enemy.

Control Room
Out of combat, this is a medium. Anybody who's steered a ship knows that the constant adjustments get tiring after four hours at the helm. On the other hand, it's important not to set the fatigue conditions too harshly, here, as this is where most of the officers work, and officers' work is much lighter. In combat, this is one of the -best- places on the submarine, as the people here have the profound psychological advantage of knowing what's going on. Weather does not effect this station very much.

Torpedo Rooms (Bomb Shops)
Out of combat, there's nothing to do but train. Many modern submarines set up auxiliary bunking in the torpedo rooms. In combat, the loading and unloading of torpedoes is the hardest duty aboard. In bad weather, this is sheer hell. Since bad weather matters across the board, I think the best thing to assume is that any sailor assigned to the torpedo rooms is moving big heavy things around for training, maintenance or combat. Sailors could still hang out there to catch some rest, but they wouldn't be -assigned- there. So medium-hard station in non-combat, very hard station in combat, severe weather modifier.

Active Engine Room
The active engine room is medium-hard in non-combat, hard in combat, and very tiring in heavy weather, due to the tendency to accumulate small injuries.

Inactive Engine Room
The inactive engine room, however, can be used to represent one of those spaces aboard where the crew can take on light duties, rest and regain strength. Slowly, of course, as an engine room is never a pleasant place to hang out.

Damage Control
In combat, this is a hard, wearing station. Out of combat, this is a very light and pleasant duty and another one of those places where sailors can rest up while not actually sleeping.

Radio Room
In combat and out, the sonar and radar watches are two of the most psychologically tiring duties aboard, but -especially- the sonar watch. Unfortunately, however, only one of these stations is generally active at a time. On the surface, the hydrophone operator can do nothing but nap, submerged, the radio man is in roughly the same position. My instinct is to average out the fatigue of these to positions in the assumption that crew could spell one another.

3. My Reconstruction of the Rank/Compartment Structure:

based on basic.cfg

Ranks:
[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
[CREW_1] ;ABLESEAMAN
[CREW_2] ;LEADINGSEAMAN
[CREW_3] ;PETTYOFFICER
[CREW_4] ;CHIEFPETTYOFFICER
[CREW_5] ;CHIEFBOATSWAIN
[CREW_6] ;SUBLIEUTENANT
[CREW_7] ;LIEUTENANTJR
[CREW_8] ;LIEUTENANTSR

Compartments:
0 Bridge (aka 'Conning Tower Watch')
1 Radio Room
2 Control Room
3 Diesel Engine
4 Electric Engine
5 Bow Torpedo
6 Bow Quarters
7 Stern Quarters
8 Stern Torpedo
9 Deck Gun
10 Flak Guns
11 Unknown - Damage Control?

xx0 - Surfaced
xx1 - Submerged
Regular - noncombat
Specific – Combat

4. First Draft of the 'Forgiving' Model

Formatted for SH3 Commander
NB: I don't know what the actual numbers mean, so these are just guesses until I actually understand how they interact.

Station 'hardness' (based on GW/GWX 8 Hour Model):
Noncombat
- Easy: -0.001
- Regular: 0.001
- Hard: 0.003
Combat
- Easy: 0.01
- Regular: 0.02
- Hard: 0.045
Weather
- Weak Weather Modifier: 0.001
- Hard Weather Modifier: 0.01
- Hellish Weather Modifier: 0.02

[5]
Desc=Sub_Optimal's Forgiving - Experimental
; Crew Structure - for the time being, the same as default
CREW_0|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_0|FatigueStep=0.2
CREW_1|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_1|FatigueStep=0.2
CREW_2|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_2|FatigueStep=0.2
CREW_3|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_3|FatigueStep=0.1
CREW_4|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_4|FatigueStep=0.1
CREW_5|FatigueMax=0.5
CREW_5|FatigueStep=0.1
CREW_6|FatigueMax=0.6
CREW_6|FatigueStep=0.05
CREW_7|FatigueMax=0.6
CREW_7|FatigueStep=0.05
CREW_8|FatigueMax=0.6
CREW_8|FatigueStep=0.05
; COMARTMENTS - largely based off GW/GWX 8 Hour
;bridge
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor00=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor00=0.02 ; feeling of exposure to enemy fire
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather0=0.02
; radio
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor10=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor11=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor10=0.015 ; these values
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor11=0.015 ; balanced between stations
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather1=0.001
; control room
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor20=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor21=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor20=0.01 ; knowledge of the situation helps these folks
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor21=0.01
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather2=0.001
; diesel
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor30=0.0015
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor31=-0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor30=0.025
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor31=0.0001 ; rest without recovery in battle
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather3=0.017
; electric
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor40=-0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor41=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor40=0.0001 ; rest without recovery in battle
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor41=0.017
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather4=0.001
; bow torp
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor50=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor51=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor50=0.045
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor51=0.045
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather5=0.02 ; watch out for those swinging torps
; quarters
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor60=-0.1 ; this is the same value as in default
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor61=-0.1 ; sleep knits up the ravelled sleeve of care
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor70=-0.1
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor71=-0.1
; stern torp
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor80=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor81=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor80=0.045
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor81=0.045
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather8=0.02
; gun
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor90=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor90=0.02
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather9=0.02
; aa
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor100=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor100=0.02
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather10=0.02
; damage control
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor110=-0.05
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor111=-0.05
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor110=0.02
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor111=0.02
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather11=0.001

[Stiebler]

Most of the items you want were resolved long ago by Observer for the NYGM super-mod.

Download it from my signature, and save yourself a lot of work.

Stiebler.

[Kafka BC]

Your assumption that Watch Duty is a pleasant thing in good weather is entirely wrong. It is tiring work even in the best of conditions, it is not sightseeing. Nor is it just a matter of looking around, for then you will see almost nothing.

To quote the United States Navy Lookout Training Handbook in the section on surface search:

"To search and scan, hold the binoculars steady so the horizon is in the top third of the field of vision. Direct the eyes just below the horizon and scan for 5 seconds in as many small steps as possible across the field seen through the binoculars. Search the entire sector in 5° steps, pausing between steps for approximately 5 seconds to scan the field of view. At the end of your sector, lower the glasses and rest the eyes for a few seconds, then search back across the sector with the naked eye."

Then they start all over again, each sweep of a 110° sector (10° overlaps) taking at least three minutes in optimal conditions. Try standing in one spot and doing that for four hours. I have been told by someone who did it that it is very physically exhausting.

Regarding the Torpedo Rooms, you should note that torpedoes were lifted and moved constantly when not in combat. They had to be maintained as well. I can't remember where I read it, but each torpedo on board a U-boat was stripped down and every part checked and cleaned once every three or four days.

Otherwise, good luck in your endeavor.

- Kafka BC

[Sailor Steve]

^^^^ :yep:

Buchheim claims in Das Boot that he became friends with the crew by standing on bridge watch every day in their place, and it was grueling, which of course made him very popular.

[sub_optimal]

Thank you for your kind comments.

Beleive me, I have stood lookout watch for many hours myself, and I certainly don't mean to say that it is 'pleasent' in the usual civilian sense of the word. But we're talking relatively, here, in comparison to other submarine jobs. In my experience, the main problem with standing lookout is the extreme monotony. But the standard lookout watch is four hours and, at night, 4:15. Compare this to a sonar watch, where the crew is switched out every few minutes. In good weather, I found that the most trying part of a lookout watch was the extreme, almost hypnotic, monotony (especially life-bouy sentry, with that white, rythmic wake).

In bad weather, however, I freely acknowledge that lookout on a submarine must be hell on water. As you may recall, Buchheim had the engineer waterproof his camera so that he could work on deck. He had a very wet cruise with poor weather even by North Atlantic standards. And yet, even in these difficult conditions he found that one of the cheif hazards of non-combat sailing was the psychological difficulty of living in the cramped, rank interior of a submarine, which quickly left him feeling fuzzy-headed and overfed.

Stripping down equipment is, of course, one of the things that goes on in a torpedo room, but this is equally true of every part of submarine, and so I don't think that it should ideally factor into the numbers. These are, of coruse, crude approximations and... well all the usual disclaimers apply. The short version is that I am making the assumption that the 'hard job' that goes on in a torpedo room is that of trying to move the torps around rapidly and under combat conditions. Thus training will take its toll, as will combat. Maintainance, however, shouldn't be that much more exausting than in the engine room, battery compartment or galley.

[Kafka BC]

But we're talking relatively, here, in comparison to other submarine jobs.


Standing Lookout Watch on a warship in wartime, were the survival of the ship and crew depends on you, is just as tough as any other submarine job, and efficiency rapidly deteriorates...hence four hour shifts. Lookouts on warships require skill and training.



Compare this to a sonar watch, where the crew is switched out every few minutes.
I don't know where you got this, but on U-Boats the Radio/Hydrophone crew generally stood six hour watches and doubled as medics as well.



...especially life-bouy sentry, with that white, rythmic wake.
Not the same as standing lookout. There, if you are looking at the wake or anything else, then you are not doing your job.

[sub_optimal]

Standing Lookout Watch on a warship in wartime, were the survival of the ship and crew depends on you, is just as tough as any other submarine job, and efficiency rapidly deteriorates...hence four hour shifts.

Well I'm still not entirely convinced, but I'm willing to allow that my experience might be ideosyncratic. I'm a small guy with little physical strength but a very long attention span. Although I must insist that a lifebouy sentry is a lookout and, no, you really can't avoid looking at the wake becuase it's one of the areas you have to keep an eye on.

Lookouts on warships require skill and training.

Oh, undoubtedly.


I don't know where you got this, but on U-Boats the Radio/Hydrophone crew generally stood six hour watches and doubled as medics as well.

That's very interesting; I didn't know that. I wonder how they were able to keep it up for so long without losing efficiency very quickly?

Anyway, maybe it might be an idea to tweak the hardness of good-weather watchkeeping up a bit and tweak radio watch down.

[sub_optimal]

Most of the items you want were resolved long ago by Observer for the NYGM super-mod.

Download it from my signature, and save yourself a lot of work.

That's very intersting, I was under the impression that the NYGM mod was designed for hard-core realism.

Can I ask, because I'm genuinely interested in how this works, how you approached these issues?

[Kafka BC]

Although I must insist that a lifebouy sentry is a lookout ...


You can call it a lookout in the non-military sense. It is vital, yes. But again, it is not the same kind of job.

As a Lifebuoy Sentry you are looking aft from the quarterdeck at an area that is relatively close to the ship looking to see or hear someone who has fallen overboard.

As opposed to scanning the horizon 10 kilometers away, using the procedure I described above, searching for a tiny speck. Or in the case of aircraft, and using an entirely different procedure, searching the sky for a pinprick 15 to 20 kilometers away.

I've gone up the road a short bit from where I live to get a better look out of Halifax Harbour and tried to do it steady. Didn't even last 10 minutes.

Edit: As an afterthought for anyone following this thread.

You can get a .pdf copy of the United States Navy Lookout Training Handbook here (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/lookout.pdf).

- Kafka BC

[sub_optimal]

As a Lifebuoy Sentry you are looking aft from the quarterdeck at an area that is relatively close to the ship looking to see or hear someone who has fallen overboard

Ah, I think I see where we're talking at cross purposes. On many ships, the lifebuoy sentry is also the after lookout, responsible for scanning the back third of the horrizon while also waiting for somebody to fall overboard.

[Hitman]

First of all, let me applaude your attempt to create a better crew efficiency system :up: We are always in need of fresh people with fresh ideas, and taking on such a boring undertaking as the crew efficiency (Which requires lots of testing), but that is so decisive in gameplay enjoyment terms, always will get my applause and support :yeah:

That's very intersting, I was under the impression that the NYGM mod was designed for hard-core realism.

Can I ask, because I'm genuinely interested in how this works, how you approached these issues?

IIRC Observer was a real life ex-submariner, so I guess he had a lot of insight into all these matters.

[Kafka BC]

Ah, I think I see where we're talking at cross purposes...

I see that now, after looking through the handbook again and doing a quick google. I mistook Lifebuoy Sentry as civilian (ie. Cruise Ships and such) and Lifebuoy Watch as Navy. It appears that the terms are interchangeable.

I stand corrected.

I see you are from Toronto, were you in the Navy Reserve there?

PS. I heartily agree with Hitman. There it always a need for something new with a different perspective for people to try. Evidence all the different GUI and Environmental Mods that are floating around here. You might want to look at NGYM's fatigue model, I haven't tried it yet, but I read somewhere that it models efficiency over the length of a patrol.

- Kafka BC

[Jimbuna]

Good luck in your endeavours sub_optimal, I echo Hitmans applause and best wishes http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[sub_optimal]

I see you are from Toronto, were you in the Navy Reserve there?

Ha ha, no, my last official naval experience was as coxwain of my sea cadet corps many long years ago. We used to go out in YAG's and, one memorable summer, on repurposed lobster boats (being, under naval supervision, the cleanest lobster boats on Earth).

Since then I've been studying as a naval historian, and have spent some time academically observing (and occasionally teaching) militaries of various Western countries. Actually, I don't know very much about U-boats at all. I've always shied away from the Second World War as being too full of people who actually know that they're talking about and can show me up for the fraud that I am. Currently I'm working on questions of naval intelligence and institutional structure in the postwar period.

[sub_optimal]

Back on topic, though, does anybody know an easy way to access NGYM's fatigue model?

[Kafka BC]

Back on topic, though, does anybody know an easy way to access NGYM's fatigue model?

I think all you need is the basic.cfg file. I've extracted it uploaded it to Mediafire for you here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?agw4vvdtd387oww). It is from the NYGM3.3B patch from a year ago. The 3.3C patch didn't have it, So I think its the latest one. If something more is needed, maybe somebody in the know can get it for you.



...the cleanest lobster boats on Earth.
Living in a fishing village (Eastern Passage) that is now part of Halifax, I can tell you that is no mean feat.



Since then I've been studying as a naval historian, and have spent some time academically observing (and occasionally teaching) militaries of various Western countries.
Then, perhaps you know of this character (http://www.jimdunnigan.com/). I've followed him since the '70s when he used to publish my eagerly awaited Strategy and Tactics magazine and great wargames. He is now a Military Analyst and lecturer, and on occasion appears on CNN.



...and can show me up for the fraud that I am.
You probably have more creds than a lot of them.

And here is my shameless attempt (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=168923) at Naval History education.

- Kafka BC

[sub_optimal]

Thanks Kafka, that's great.

These values seem very interesting, and quite different from what I would have thought of myself, although they've clearly been thought through with great depth. For example, some of the SpecificFactor values seem really... well specific: For compartment 5, the value is 0.027225. I'd really like to understand where that number comes from. Also, unless I'm reading this wrong, there's no weather modification whatsoever, which seems strange.

Any comments?

[Stiebler]

@Sub_Optimal:

Hitman is correct, Observer was a real-life American ex-submariner. He departed from this forum about three years ago.

Observer spent a very long time with mathematical modelling/balancing of the various compartments for fatigue - and also for morale - which is why some of the figures look so precise.

I found after much experience that the morale figures were crippling any U-boat that went on an extremely long cruise, such as an IXd2 to the Indian Ocean and back to France. Similarly, very long schnorchel patrols in 1945 during stormy weather around the British coast were crippling the engine-room crew. For this reason, I toned down the effects of morale a lot, but retained the fatigue components.

I have no knowledge of the effect of weather patterns, I don't remember seeing any separate crew fatigue components for weather that could be adjusted.

Good luck, anyway,
Stiebler.

[Volk2]

What sections in basic.cfg are responsible for fatigue model? I'm playing from a long time with no fatigue, but maybe NYGM model would be good. I wish to try to copy it to GWX basic.cfg. Certainly its the sections [CREW_0]-[CREW_8]. What else? [COMPARTMENT]?

[sub_optimal]

Observer spent a very long time with mathematical modelling/balancing of the various compartments for fatigue - and also for morale - which is why some of the figures look so precise

Very intersting. Does anybody know where morale is configured?

I found after much experience that the morale figures were crippling any U-boat that went on an extremely long cruise, such as an IXd2 to the Indian Ocean and back to France.

That's an excelent point. Perhaps one sollution would be to have several different fatigue models to balance realism and playability in different conditions. An 'early war' and 'late war' war model might be an example, or different models for different classes (which would seem to make intuative sense anyway).

Does anybody know whether a schnorcheing sub is counted as 'surfaced' or 'submerged'?

[sub_optimal]

What sections in basic.cfg are responsible for fatigue model? I'm playing from a long time with no fatigue, but maybe NYGM model would be good. I wish to try to copy it to GWX basic.cfg. Certainly its the sections [CREW_0]-[CREW_8]. What else? [COMPARTMENT]?

This turns out to be a little complicated. The main section is under the heading [FATIGUE_COEF], but the values there are somewhat delphic, which is why I tried to work out what they exactly mean (detailed in my opening comment to this thread). There are also, as you point out, values describing how these fatigue values effect different rank catagories under [MEDALS_CREW] and the various [CREW_x] sections.

A simpler way to modify these values seems to be to use the excelent SH3 Commander programme, which allows you to easily switch fatigue models before launching the game. If you want to take this route, I can easily post the instructions, which are in the SH3 Commander help files.

I'd like to further add that the NYGM values are (at least as far as I can work out) indeed 'forgiving', but not necesarily in the way I had in mind, in which the point would be to allow fatigue to rise and fall quickly, creating a broad range of conditions over the course of the cruise. Not that this is neccesarily what you're looking for, but I'm still working on the problem for my own, personal satisfaction. :-)

[sub_optimal]

And here is my shameless attempt (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=168923) at Naval History education.

How very appropriately shameless, given that it reflects only credit upon you!

[Volk2]

Thanks for the info. Indeed, there is a "Crew fatigue models.cfg" in SH3 commander and as I see there are only options CREW_0... and FATIGUE_COEF... to copy from basic.cfg. I wonder if NYGM model would work this way in GWX and if its better than GWX 8 hours. The RUb is also interesting, but this "combat fatigue" model is not really convincing.

And how do you see the situation, that fatigue works in game only at less than 32x time speed?

[Stiebler]

Concerning adjustment of morale:
I did this a year or two ago, but find that my extensive list of SH3 mod-change notes does not address this issue for some reason. So I regret that I can no longer help here.

The problem with schnorchelling U-boats occurs in high winds (15 m/s), when the schnorchel dips repeatedly below the waves. This causes the engine room to transfer repeatedly between the diesel and electric engine rooms, which creates high fatigue.
The best solution is NOT to alter the fatigue settings, but instead to lower the maximum extent permitted for the rise and fall of the waves.

Fatigue changes are only seen at time control = 32x or less, but I have often had a suspicion that fatigue 'catches up' with its real value after you change time control from a high level to 32x. That is, after a long patrol at 1024x, there is no effect on fatigue or morale, but after returning to 32x fatigue and morale effects seem to change more quickly than usual. I am still not sure if this a real effect or my imagination. Has anyone else noticed the same effect?

EDIT:
Just checked - it is very easy to locate the coefficients for both morale and bad weather in file data\cfg\basic.cfg. Just open it up in Notepad, and search for 'morale' and 'weather'. No other file is required, if I remember correctly.

Stiebler.

[Kafka BC]

How very appropriately shameless, given that it reflects only credit upon you!

Thanks. Wasn't looking for any, but was trying to give it to the boys of the Royal Canadian Navy Volunteer Reserve, the Naval Reservists, and the good officers that commanded them.

[LGN1]

Hi,

a while ago I made a long-term fatigue model for myself. From reading old threads (thanks to all who investigated this earlier!), experimenting,... I found out the following things:

In basic.cfg every rank has this section

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30 <--- value below which morale cannot drop (see comment below)
MoraleMax=0.60 <--- value above which morale cannot rise
MoraleStep=0.05 <--- amount by which morale is increased in the crew comp. every 10 min.
FatigueMin=0 <--- value below which fatigue cannot drop
FatigueMax=0.80 <--- value above which fatigue cannot rise
FatigueStep=0.031 <--- amount by which fatigue is reduced in the crew comp. every 10 min.
CoefMorale=0.4 <--- see formula below
CoefFatigue=0.21 <--- see formula below
QualEffect=1 <--- see formula below
Hp=10
Wounded=-0.02 <--- amount by which morale is reduced if someone is wounded in the compartment
Dead=-0.05 <--- amount by which morale is reduced if someone dies in the compartment
SunkShips=0.1 <--- amount by which morale increases if a ship is sunk
TorpedoHit=0.05 <--- broken, does nothing
Experience=0

Now the question is how do these values influence the efficiency in a compartment. The answer is (assuming all men are healthy, never tested wounded men):

Efficiency = (M*(1-c_m)+c_m)*(F*(c_f-1)+1)

M: morale of crew member
c_m: CoefMorale in basic.cfg
F: fatigue of crew member
c_f: CoefFatigue in basic.cfg

The total efficiency is the sum of all the efficiencies of the crew members in the compartment. For petty officers the efficiency is multiplied with the QualEffect factor from basic.cfg (if they have the qualification corresponding to the compartment). For officers the total efficiency in the compartment is multiplied by QualEffect. Thus, having an officer with the right qualification is most important.

Ok, now we need to know how efficiency influences the different tasks. This is where my knowledge is limited. Here is what I think. We have several tasks: Repairs, torpedo reload, steering commands, sensor work.

Repair times: Repair time is given by (this is without a repair team, i.e. only the crew in the compartment is doing the repairs. I think you need at least two men in the compartment.)

T = Tfix(depends on damage amount)*Interval3/Eff,
Tfix: hardcoded 'basic' time
Eff: efficiency in compartment (formula above)
Interval3: specified for each compartment in basic.cfg
Interval1 and Interval2 seem to have no influence


Torpedo reload time:
T = Tfix*factor
Tfix: 'basic' time in sim file
factor=1 for efficiency in compartment >= Interval3
factor=3/2 for Interval2 < efficiency in compartment < Interval3
factor=3 for Interval1 < efficiency in compartment < Interval2
infinity for efficiency in compartment < Interval1 (i.e., no reloading)

I did not notice any influence of efficiency on giving commands. I also do not know for sure how efficiency influences the sensors. It seems that the Interval values have no influence. So, I guess a continuous scale is used (as with repair times, not as in the case of torpedo reloading). Engines will not work if efficiency in compartment < Interval1. It seems the other Intervals have no influence.

Finally, basic.cfg contains the [FATIGUE_COEF] values for each compartment:

RegularFactor50=0.001 <--- amount by which fatigue is decreased when a crew member is moved into the compartment
RegularFactor51=0.001 <--- unknown. No idea.
SpecificFactor50=0.045 <--- amount by which fatigue decreases every 10 min. when the sub is surfaced
SpecificFactor51=0.045 <--- amount by which fatigue decreases every 10 min. when the sub is submerged
BadWeather5=0.02 <--- amount by which fatigue is decreased in bad weather (I'm not sure whether it's added to RegularFactor or used without it. But this can be easily checked.)

That's how I think it works. If someone has more information or thinks something is wrong I would love to know it. Especially, it would be great to know more about how sensors are influenced by the efficiency.

Cheers, LGN1

PS: One has to be careful when playing with MoraleStep. If you make it negative the morale can become negative because it is not stopped by MoraleMin. IIRC, you can also get negative fatigue if you choose some strange settings.

[sub_optimal]

That's fantastic, LGN1. That saves a ton of work.

Do you mind if I ask a few questions?

Firstly, are you sure that "Efficiency = (M*(1-c_m)+c_m)*(F*(c_f-1)+1)" shouldn't read "Efficiency = ((M*1-c_m)+c_m)*((F*c_f-1)+1)"?

Second, what leads you to the conclusion that SpecificFactor is envoked when crews are moved from compartment to compartment? I've been sitting here moving my crews around, their fatigue doesn't seem to go up. Furthermore, in the default settings, the SpecificFactor for compartments 3 and 4 (diesel and electric engines respectively) are mirrored for the x0 and x1 conditions (ie 30 is 0.4, 31 0.1; 40 is 0.1, 41 0.4). This would seem to fit the model that these factors should reflect the submerged and surfaced postures of the submarine, as the electrics are only used submerged and the diesels surfaced. Thus:

30 - diesel surfaced - in use = 0.4 (high)
31 - diesel submerged - not in use = 0.1 (low)
40 - electric sufaced - not in use = 0.1 (low)
41 - electric submerged - in use = 0.4 (high)

[divingbluefrog]

LGN1, I see you have fine tuned your model since your discovery of the formula that changes my life... Thank you again for this fantastic breakthrough.
I can give you my two cents :
Regular - noncombat situation
Specific – Combat situation
This is not my own conclusion, I found this somewhere in the inmost depths of this forum, and copied it to my own Tips 'd Tricks file.

For the Tfix in the repair time formula, I incline toward a relation with the Hit Point of the equipment/compartment, even with the amount of hp lost or remaining...
Could you confirm the formula is T = Tfix/(Eff*Interval3) ?

By the way, do you have any idea about the Resilience factor? All I know is that it is influenced by crewman HP, the more HP, the less resilience. Should have an influence on Fatigue or Efficiency...

[LGN1]

That's fantastic, LGN1. That saves a ton of work.

Do you mind if I ask a few questions?

Firstly, are you sure that "Efficiency = (M*(1-c_m)+c_m)*(F*(c_f-1)+1)" shouldn't read "Efficiency = ((M*1-c_m)+c_m)*((F*c_f-1)+1)"?

Second, what leads you to the conclusion that SpecificFactor is envoked when crews are moved from compartment to compartment? I've been sitting here moving my crews around, their fatigue doesn't seem to go up. Furthermore, in the default settings, the SpecificFactor for compartments 3 and 4 (diesel and electric engines respectively) are mirrored for the x0 and x1 conditions (ie 30 is 0.4, 31 0.1; 40 is 0.1, 41 0.4). This would seem to fit the model that these factors should reflect the submerged and surfaced postures of the submarine, as the electrics are only used submerged and the diesels surfaced. Thus:

30 - diesel surfaced - in use = 0.4 (high)
31 - diesel submerged - not in use = 0.1 (low)
40 - electric sufaced - not in use = 0.1 (low)
41 - electric submerged - in use = 0.4 (high)

Hi,

I am pretty sure about the formula. Your version can be simplified to

Efficiency = (M-c_m+c_m)*(F*c_f-1+1) = M*F*c_f

which means for c_f=0 you have no efficiency. Also c_m has no influence. But in-game you can choose a purely morale-dependent model by choosing c_f=1. By choosing c_m=1 you get a pure fatigue model.

Sorry, about the regular and specific factors. I confused the two. It's the other way round (corrected it above). Look in this old thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=85656

Be careful, the formula given there for the efficiency is wrong, IMHO.

LGN1, I see you have fine tuned your model since your discovery of the formula that changes my life... Thank you again for this fantastic breakthrough.
I can give you my two cents :
Regular - noncombat situation
Specific – Combat situation
This is not my own conclusion, I found this somewhere in the inmost depths of this forum, and copied it to my own Tips 'd Tricks file.

For the Tfix in the repair time formula, I incline toward a relation with the Hit Point of the equipment/compartment, even with the amount of hp lost or remaining...
Could you confirm the formula is T = Tfix/(Eff*Interval3) ?

By the way, do you have any idea about the Resilience factor? All I know is that it is influenced by crewman HP, the more HP, the less resilience. Should have an influence on Fatigue or Efficiency...

About the specific and regular factors, see the thread I linked above. It's quite old, but I don't know any definite conclusion about the regular factor.

You are right about the repair times. I am pretty sure that the status of the damaged item (via hitpoints) plays a role. However, how hitpoints exactly enter is not known to me. The formula is just about how the efficiency enters (what happens if you send more men to repair). A more correct version would be

T = Tfix(damage/hitpoints)*Interval3/Eff

,i.e., Tfix is an unknown function of the damage/hitpoints. If you increase the Interval3 value, the time will also increase.

Which Resilience factor do you mean? The colored bar for each crew member? I think it's just 1-fatigue. I don't think that hitpoints influence the efficiency. At least I can predict the efficiency (green bar above the compartment) without using any hitpoint information.

Cheers, LGN1

[sub_optimal]

I am pretty sure about the formula. Your version can be simplified to

Efficiency = (M-c_m+c_m)*(F*c_f-1+1) = M*F*c_f

Wait... maybe I'm going crazy, but I thought that you had to do the addition and subtraction first, and then the multiplication and division.

[sub_optimal]

Second, what leads you to the conclusion that SpecificFactor is envoked when crews are moved from compartment to compartment?

... which is, of course, not what you said at all. I fail at reading.

[LGN1]

Just a small example to illustrate the formula (values taken from GWX):

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.80
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.21
QualEffect=1

--> A rested seaman adds 0.76 to the efficiency in a compartment. When completely exhausted he adds 0.76*0.368 = 0.27968.

[CREW_3] ;PETTYOFFICER
MoraleMin=0.40
MoraleMax=0.70
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.80
CoefMorale=0.3
CoefFatigue=0.3
QualEffect=2

--> A rested petty officer adds 0.79 to the efficiency in a compartment. When completely exhausted he adds 0.79*0.44 = 0.3476. If he has the correct qualification for the compartment he adds 1.58 and 0.6952, respectively.

[CREW_6] ;SUBLIEUTENANT
MoraleMin=0.50
MoraleMax=0.80
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.80
CoefMorale=0.2
CoefFatigue=0.4
QualEffect=1.5

--> A rested sub lieutenant adds 0.84 to the efficiency in a compartment. When completely exhausted he adds 0.84*0.52 = 0.4368.

If the officer is in a compartment with a sailor (both rested), the total efficiency is (0.84+0.76)*1.5 = 2.4 (assuming the officer has the correct qualification). Clearly, having an officer with the correct qualification is very important.

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

Wait... maybe I'm going crazy, but I thought that you had to do the addition and subtraction first, and then the multiplication and division.

... which is, of course, not what you said at all. I fail at reading.

Hi sub_optimal,

multiplication and division come first:

a*b+c = (a*b)+c
a*(b+c)=a*b+a*c=(a*b)+(a*c)

Concerning the specific and regular factors. I am pretty sure that (as you wrote) specific is for surfaced and submerged (my first post was wrong. I corrected it.). In the thread I linked it says that regular0 is a one-time hit when someone is moved to a compartment. I think I tested this once and confirmed it for myself. Maybe increase the value in basic.cfg and see whether you observe a change.

Cheers, LGN1

[sub_optimal]

multiplication and division come first

I looked it up; you're right. It's scary what I've forgotten from elementary school! Either that or I've hopped from one universe to another. :-) Yep, I'm sticking with that story.

I think I tested this once and confirmed it for myself. Maybe increase the value in basic.cfg and see whether you observe a change.

Yep, I tested this too, and it's correct. Still don't know what Regular 1 does, though. Might it be a hit when the sub takes damage or something?

[sub_optimal]

Earlier threads claim that the time compression above which fatigue will not increase (or decrease, depending on your perspective) is set by the "3d Render=" option, which defaults to "3d Render=32".

Does anybody know if this is true?

Also, how exactly do the fatigue coeficients work, in practice, and how do they interact with FatigueStep? Does anybody know the formula for this?

[sub_optimal]

Some more discoveries:

The fatigue system is divided into distinct 'rounds'
Each round is ten minutes long, and begins on the "0's" (1:10, 1:20, 1:30, etc)

[NB: I just double checked this, and it seems that fatigue is also sometimes recovered on the "5's"; clearly I haven't worked this out entirely yet.]

The fatigue penalty or recovery is assigned at the beginning of each ten minute round. If you put a guy into a compartment at 12:09 he will be just as fatigued at 12:10 as he would have been if he had been assigned at 12:01.

The above does not apply to the RegularFactor penalty, which is assigned as soon as a sailor is put into the compartment.

I think that the fatigue penalty defined by SpecificFactor is initiated at the beginning of each round by subtracting the SpecificFactor penalty from the man's fatigue score, where 0 is completely fatigued and 1 is completely fresh.

FatigueMax appears to define the point at which the ! shows up and the man is exhausted. However, this operates the opposite to way which one might expect given the way the other numbers work. It seems as if a sailor with a FatigueMax of .2 becomes exhausted fast (after 20% of his fatigue points are gone) whereas a sailor with a .8 score can tolerate 80% of his fatigue points disappearing before becoming exhausted.

FatigueStep seems to be the number added to the fatigue score for every round the sailor begins in a Crew Quarters compartment.

The SpecificFactor score for the Quarters compartments (which is negative) does not seem to be added to their fatigue score. This is very mysterious, because this is different from what others describe. However, I assigned a '-1' score to this compartment, expecting that it would bump the player up to full health immediately, and yet their fatigue seemed to dissipate at the usual rate.

I would be very grateful if anybody could shed light on this further.

[Hitman]

Earlier threads claim that the time compression above which fatigue will not increase (or decrease, depending on your perspective) is set by the "3d Render=" option, which defaults to "3d Render=32".

Does anybody know if this is true?

Yes it is. Fatigue will operate only under the TC set for 3D render.

Some time ago Kaa created a fatigue model I liked much, but that was dropped for unknown reasons. By setting 3D render to 1024 (Or whatever maximum TC you had), and giving all crew small fatigue values, they became exhausted over a period of months, hence making a good representation of overall fatigue in patrol. You didn't need to move crewmen around any more, they just tired always the same -and a bit faster during storms if surfaced-. I think this was a very good representation of one aspect involved, i.e. overall fatigue. Other models liek the one you are exploring represent better the normal watch shifts during patrol, but when a crewman is rested, he is as rested as if he had not been already one month in patrol. I prefer the other method, and as with all these simulations goes, it's always a trade-off; rarely will you be able to say "this or that is more realistic" ... it's a matter of choosing what aspect of reality you prefer to simulate in such a limited enviroment.

[sub_optimal]

Hmmm... in that case, do you know if it's possible to automatically load a 3d Render setting with a fatigue model in SH3 Commander?

[Hitman]

I don't know if it is possible to link those two parameters together (One fatigue model and TC), you will need to contact JSCones about that.

[sub_optimal]

I've posted a message to JScones. Let's see if he or she is interested in the idea.

[LGN1]

Some time ago Kaa created a fatigue model I liked much, but that was dropped for unknown reasons. By setting 3D render to 1024 (Or whatever maximum TC you had), and giving all crew small fatigue values, they became exhausted over a period of months, hence making a good representation of overall fatigue in patrol. You didn't need to move crewmen around any more, they just tired always the same -and a bit faster during storms if surfaced-. I think this was a very good representation of one aspect involved, i.e. overall fatigue. Other models liek the one you are exploring represent better the normal watch shifts during patrol, but when a crewman is rested, he is as rested as if he had not been already one month in patrol. I prefer the other method, and as with all these simulations goes, it's always a trade-off; rarely will you be able to say "this or that is more realistic" ... it's a matter of choosing what aspect of reality you prefer to simulate in such a limited enviroment.

I created a similar model for myself. Your crew starts fresh and is exhausted after 6 weeks (for the VIIB/C) (the efficiency of the exhausted crew stays above interval1). You don't have to move anyone around (except the lazy WO) as in the no-fatigue model, but in contrast you have some fatigue effect.

The NYGM team had the nice idea to use morale to get a long-term effect. IIRC, they did it by giving the morale step a negative sign. Unfortunately, this has two minor problems: 1) If the journey is too long or you choose a too large morale step, the morale can become negative. 2) Morale is only reduced in the rest quarters. So, you need to regularly move your crew around so that anyone gets a morale reduction (and you should set 3d Render to your max. TC rate). As a consequence, the long-term effect only works well with micromanagement. That's at least how I remember it. Stiebler, please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

FatigueMax appears to define the point at which the ! shows up and the man is exhausted. However, this operates the opposite to way which one might expect given the way the other numbers work. It seems as if a sailor with a FatigueMax of .2 becomes exhausted fast (after 20% of his fatigue points are gone) whereas a sailor with a .8 score can tolerate 80% of his fatigue points disappearing before becoming exhausted.

The SpecificFactor score for the Quarters compartments (which is negative) does not seem to be added to their fatigue score. This is very mysterious, because this is different from what others describe. However, I assigned a '-1' score to this compartment, expecting that it would bump the player up to full health immediately, and yet their fatigue seemed to dissipate at the usual rate.



IIRC, the ! does not show up when FatigueMax is reached, but 10% before it's reached.

You are right, the rest quarters have two variables: fatigueStep/moraleStep and the specific factors. I don't remember what the influence of the specific factor was, but I would not be surprised if it has no influence in this case.

The rest sounds quite similar to my observations.

Cheers, LGN1

[Stiebler]

LGN1 said:
The NYGM team had the nice idea to use morale to get a long-term effect. IIRC, they did it by giving the morale step a negative sign. Unfortunately, this has two minor problems: 1) If the journey is too long or you choose a too large morale step, the morale can become negative. 2) Morale is only reduced in the rest quarters. So, you need to regularly move your crew around so that anyone gets a morale reduction (and you should set 3d Render to your max. TC rate). As a consequence, the long-term effect only works well with micromanagement.Yes, that is substantially correct, and the reason why subsequently I reduced the morale effect for key personnel (especially officers) in NYGM. As a result, it has been a very long time since I last had any trouble with crew management on NYGM U-boats. (I don't think morale is improved in the rest quarters, in Observer's NYGM implementation; it was so long ago that I've forgotten now).

The big problem was persistent poor morale if you don't sink ships. Sail a couple of months without sinking anything, and morale fell too heavily. But if you command a IXd2 U-boat in 1944, you're not likely even to encounter any targets as you patrol from Bordeaux to Cape Town or the Indian Ocean (attacking convoys with such a large boat is suicide in 1944). Similarly, very long schnorchel patrols in 1945 from Norway to the English Channel area, without ever seeing any targets unless one encounters a chance convoy en route, ruined the crew's morale.

I never thought of changing the 3D-render effect, always left it at tc=32.

Stiebler.

[Volk2]

Is someone using RUb? It looks like something similar to "overall fatigue in patrol" (or "combat stress", or whatever):

Fatigue: the new fatigue is based on a combat stress model. It is no longer fatigue. The feature is meant to reward careful crew assignments while removing the burden of micromanagement that the original game placed on the player. In this mod the torpedo compartments and the repair area are the most stress-inducing areas of the boat, so try to keep crewmen out of these areas until they are required to work there. Also, try to limit placing watch crews on duty during bad weather. It's best to submerge when the weather is bad. Always make sure not to spend too much time at under 32x time compression.

Combat stress and crew management: When crewmen become fully stressed they will work at lower capacity. In the first couple of missions (until you train specialists) this can make it difficult to run the boat. In the short-term, place NCOs and officers in compartments which are having trouble. Between patrols, give the necessary specialist badges to NCOs and officers so that they can work the worst-affected compartments more efficiently.

Sleeping areas and fatigue: Fatigue (now combat stress) will no longer heal during time spent in the sleeping areas, but these areas will prevent crewmen from becoming more stressed. Fill these compartments with all non-essential personnel in order to keep them rested for duty.

Fatigue Marker: the fatigue marker's shape and colour has been changed. This is to remind players that high fatigue is not a 'red alert' situation. Crewmen can and will do their job even when highly stressed, but their efficiency will drop considerably. A stressed torpedo crew often takes 24 minutes to load a tube, while a fresh crew takes only 12 minutes.

[sub_optimal]

Ladies and gents,


I apologise for neglecting this thread for so long. Unfortunately, my important modding activities were rudely interrupted by this thing everybody keeps calling 'actual work'. Some people just don't seem to have a sense of priority.


So I've mocked up a spreadsheet, based on the assumptions and deductions mentioned in this thread, which should allow us to create fatigue models that behave in whatever way we want them to, and I post this first effort by way of example. This text is SH3 Commander-ready, so paste it in to the fatigue models file, under a new number, and it should Just Work.


Here is a description of my first attempt:


Name: combat-oriented, surface attack, 16h hold-down, forgiving – Draft 1


The model is...


Combat-oriented: The idea is to simulate fatigue in combat conditions, so 3d Render should be set to the same or greater than the max time compression during combat. Because of the 'forgiving' nature of the model (see below) this combat-oriented model is intended to be a bit like having 'no fatigue' during normal operations, while requiring fatigue management during combat.


Surface attack: The model is designed to be used during submarines that attack on the surface at night. In normal circumstances you should get about 8 hours out of your men on the surface, 4 hours in a storm.


16 hour hold-down: When a diesel-electric submarine is attacked by surface vessels, they will try to 'hold it down' in order to exhaust the crew. It is typical, then, for escaping submarines to spend long periods submerged. To simulate this, the model gives much longer fatigue times for a submerged submarine, averaging around 16 hours.


Forgiving: If, like me, you have a tendency to accidentally exhaust the crew during the course of normal operations, you can rest them relatively quickly, so that you don't have to spend ages and ages at 32 acceleration while your crew sleeps. All crew are set to completely recover in two hours game time. This is intended to make it difficult to do this in the middle of an attack, but easier if you're patrolling, as resting a whole watch will take less than four real-life minutes. Naturally, this means your crew might not be exhausted by the end of the patrol. In this respect, it's a bit like having 'no fatigue' turned on.


The model is also age-aware, in that as crew get more experienced, their stamina will go down. A young pup at the OS level will last about half an hour longer than the 'average' sailor, a grizzled old chief will become exhausted about a quarter of an hour sooner than average. (in this case, 'average' is set to the LS levels for ratings, Lt for officers).


I would greatly appreciate comments on this. Also, if anybody has any ideas for a model they'd like to see, I have a spreadsheet that makes them really easily (which I can share if people want to tell me how), so I can very quickly whip one up on request.


[instertNumberOfModelHere]


Desc=combat-oriented, surface attack, 16h hold-down, forgiving – draft 1 by Sub_Optimal
CREW_0|FatigueMax=0.8
CREW_0|FatigueStep=0.0166666666666667
CREW_1|FatigueMax=0.785
CREW_1|FatigueStep=0.0179166666666667
CREW_2|FatigueMax=0.77
CREW_2|FatigueStep=0.0191666666666667
CREW_3|FatigueMax=0.76
CREW_3|FatigueStep=0.02
CREW_4|FatigueMax=0.75
CREW_4|FatigueStep=0.0208333333333333
CREW_5|FatigueMax=0.742
CREW_5|FatigueStep=0.0215
CREW_6|FatigueMax=0.8
CREW_6|FatigueStep=0.0166666666666667
CREW_7|FatigueMax=0.76
CREW_7|FatigueStep=0.02
CREW_8|FatigueMax=0.74
CREW_8|FatigueStep=0.0216666666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor00=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor00=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather0=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor10=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor11=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor10=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor11=0.00697916666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather1=0.00279166666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor20=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor21=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor20=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor21=0.00697916666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather2=0.00279166666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor30=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor31=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor30=0.0160416666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor31=0.0003
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather3=0.00534722222222222
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor40=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor41=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor40=0.0003
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor41=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather4=0
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor50=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor51=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor50=0.0160416666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor51=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather5=0.0160416666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor60=-0.1
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor61=-0.1
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor70=-0.1
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor71=-0.1
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor80=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor81=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor80=0.0160416666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor81=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather8=0.0160416666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor90=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor90=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather9=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor100=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor100=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather10=0.0139583333333333
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor110=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|RegularFactor111=0.001
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor110=0.00930555555555556
FATIGUE_COEF|SpecificFactor111=0.00697916666666667
FATIGUE_COEF|BadWeather11=0.00279166666666667

[Magic1111]

Hi !

Very interesting Fatigue Model ! :up:

I´ve copy & paste the Lines into my Commander File and then I use your Fatigue Model on my next Patrol ! I give then an Feedback here.....!

Best regards,
Magic:salute: