How's the hold out crowd holding up?

[Blood_splat]

I was weak:wah:

[Nordmann]

I was weak:wah:

Did they get you to take the Toyota as well? :nope:

[klh]

I've got to admit, I've picked it up and held it a few times at Wal-Mart, but so far I've been able to avoid buying it. Besides the shortcomings and DRM, my PC won't even run it (but I was hoping for an excuse to upgrade :03: ). It will be an expensive game at $1050 ($50 for the game and $1000 for the new PC).

But like others, I keep checking the forums hoping for some good news and a reason to jump in.

[609_Avatar]

Sorry. :oops:

Hey, no worries. As others have pointed out, we all do it but try to minimize it. I'm doing my best to keep my "rants" to threads that have that kind of subject line.

My brother-in-law is enjoying his game so far, though I have thrown a wrench in it a little by pointing out a couple of things he thought were features as actually being bugs that need fixing... :oops: He's still mostly impressed with the graphics and cool explosions, now that he actually knows how to hit stuff. :)

[Dutch]

Yeah, you and me need to take this into the "Having fun playing SH5 and making the best of it" thread ;)

So it would appear two people would have a nice little thread to keep all to themselves in. How cute :hmmm:.;)

[Buddahaid]

I thought of the split and posted that too, but on further thought it is irrelavent as I relish all the opinion and learn from others rants and raves. I am having fun with it, have had no problems with the online requirement (that is actual problems), but can appreciate the historical and operational omissions that drive some to despair. Having said that, I don't think the list price, and the discounted price is very high at all. SH4 was $79.00 when first released three years ago (I think), and in that time I have experienced a 100-400% increase in the price of medical equipment replacement parts. Unrelated, but ask yourself what you can buy for $50.00 now anywhere?

Hold out or buy it as you please, but the game is NOT as expensive as previous releases, so don't expect the worlds greatest u-boat sim out of the box. If it was higher priced I'd be mad too, but it is cheap so I live with it and take it for what it is, not what it could have been.

[finchOU]

Holding out for a couple of reasons which were planned a long long time ago.

First off my computer. It wont run it, so its going to be at least an $800.00 purchase to run this game (Oh btw, bought the current PC for SH2 then upgraded the Card and Ram for SH3).

Secondly, the past incomplete/buggy releases from UBI make it easy to just wait till after the initial storm of patches and mods come through to make the game "playable" on a immersive level (and not have to keep starting over a career to load a new mod every week).

Next would be positive and realistic feed back. Because i'm in the Gameplay over Graphics crowd I know there is going to be a one to two month grace period where people really dont have a true idea what they think of the game. Once the OOOOs and AAAAAHHs wear off...whats left but good solid feedback of the most minute detail. True breakdowns of the game. This is especially true after major mods to fix the annoyances.

Wolfpacks... yeah ...i said it! I would have bought this day one if this was a feature that was implemented and worked decently.

Price.....because I'm from the 90's Sim crowd...(vise the 2000's Game crowd)...I really miss what we used to expect from a Sim and follow on installments. I guess now that we dont get the Big Box with all the goodies and the fact that games are not as polished when released...I'm willing to wait until I think the game hits an appropriate price (say $20-30 vice $50)

Lastly age....approaching 30, and have cooled down from my "got to have it now" period.

[Nimmo55]

I'm "holding out" quite well, thank you. The more I read about this thing, the more I am convinced of the wisdom of keeping my cash in my wallet. It ain't finished..it's full of bugs...they've ruined the look and the AI and while it has great potential, it simply is a disgrace Ubisoft released it in this state, half finished. So yea...I'm quite comfortable "holding out".

Nimmo55:DL

[JScones]

As someone who generally plays from hotel room while on business travel, and where internet connection is often priced at $50 a night (yes, you heard right) there is no way in hell I'm ever buying this game.
I was just in a country that wanted to charge me around US$1.00 PER MINUTE to access the internet! :o

Mind you, it made it very easy for me to stick to my self imposed "internet ban" whilst I was away.

Anyway, back to the OP's question... No probs holding out here, although "holding out" suggests an element of resistance...which is certainly not the case. I'm yet to be convinced that SH5 is even worth the time it takes to install it.

Besides, I'm getting far more entertainment just reading this forum each day than I would from any computer game. :yeah:

Ask me again though in six months or so, post patches...

[JackAubrey]

I'm with JScones on the "holding out" thing. Thanks to a friend of mine, who lent me his account, I did have the opportunity to play the game.
Played it for a few hours, got bored of running around the sub, found it a hassle not to have all information about the Boat available, got a little angry at all the bugs, got bored with the game, deinstalled and since then, never looked back.

It's a bit strange, but I really looked forward to be able to run around my sub. I wanted this really bad for many years. Now that I can, I am surprised how fast this feature gets old.

I nearly lost all interest in this Game.

If there will be a "Bargain Bin Version" without the DRM, then I will maybe buy it for nostalgic reasons. As long as a Game has this DRM-Scheme in place, I will not buy it.

[sav112]

As I’ve said this game will be fine probably by the end of the year if not later. But question is are the Mods interested in this or not as I’m sure its not got the players SHIII had to appreciate there work. :hmmm:

[TreverSlyFox]

Holding out just fine and as long as Ubisoft (or any other Publisher) has these stupid Persistent Internet Connection/DRM requirements I won't be buying ANY of their products.

There are many other Publishers with games like Morrowind/Oblivion, the Witcher, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., X3 and Sins of a Solar Empire that DO NOT need to use Stupid DRM scams. So why would I support any Publisher that does? :down:

I'm 61 years old, on a fixed income and a crappy 26.4 Kbps dialup internet connection (the best I can get without spending over $50 a month here). I'm old enough to know better when someone is urinating down my back and telling me it's raining. :damn:

[Boats]

I know I'm disqualified from the hold out crowd now, but dang nab it I started this shabang so I'll just say one more thing.

I was an avid flight simmer, but my disability has driven me from the cockpit, sitting in one position for too long really cramps my style and is a literal pain in the lower region. So the only other sim/game that holds my interest are subsims. If they go the way of the dodo I'm done with PC gaming altogether.
Hmmmm, would be alot cheaper in the long run, because even though I'm no longer a hold out I still haven't been able to play SH5 with my aged machine.:wah:
Anyway, what's the point of this closing arguement? I have no idea, read what you will into it. Could be I'm just sniveling.:D
Or I was afraid this sim would stop being sold in the stores and in time will become the mother of all subsims and therefore highly sought after but hard to find. (I never do business over the net). Striking first I've avoided future sniveling (oh woe is me I can't find a copy in the stores, the one I bought was the only one for 20 miles) while the sniveling of the present (oh woe is me I can't play on my dinosaur of a PC) is only temporary until the pig gets filled.

That's my story (excuse) and I'm sticking to it.:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

Could be I'm just sniveling.:D
Sounds more to me like an honest assessment of your feelings on the subject. Reflection is always good.:sunny:

[Dutch]

I know I'm disqualified from the hold out crowd now, but dang nab it I started this shabang so I'll just say one more thing.

I was an avid flight simmer, but my disability has driven me from the cockpit, sitting in one position for too long really cramps my style and is a literal pain in the lower region. So the only other sim/game that holds my interest are subsims. If they go the way of the dodo I'm done with PC gaming altogether.
Hmmmm, would be alot cheaper in the long run, because even though I'm no longer a hold out I still haven't been able to play SH5 with my aged machine.:wah:
Anyway, what's the point of this closing arguement? I have no idea, read what you will into it. Could be I'm just sniveling.:D
Or I was afraid this sim would stop being sold in the stores and in time will become the mother of all subsims and therefore highly sought after but hard to find. (I never do business over the net). Striking first I've avoided future sniveling (oh woe is me I can't find a copy in the stores, the one I bought was the only one for 20 miles) while the sniveling of the present (oh woe is me I can't play on my dinosaur of a PC) is only temporary until the pig gets filled.

That's my story (excuse) and I'm sticking to it.:salute:

Bit off topic I know but might I suggest getting a new chair? I had I wouldn't say an old chair but it did have alot of wear and tear on it and I had no idea how much the seat cushion on the back and the bottom had worn down. I casually remarked before Christmas that I was thinking about getting a new chair to my parents and they took the liberty of finding a very nice "fancy" chair that was worth 500$ but paid 40$ for.

Since I have gotten the new chair it is alot more comfortable to be at the desk so my suggestion would be to look around and see if you can't find a good deal on a new chair that might alleviate alot of your problems it sure helped mine.

[Yak]

I was just in a country that wanted to charge me around US$1.00 PER MINUTE to access the internet! :o

Mind you, it made it very easy for me to stick to my self imposed "internet ban" whilst I was away.


Only a few weeks ago I was paying what was about $33 USD for 33 megabytes of data download.

Yep, thirty-three-megabytes at roughly a dollar per mb, and the connection was slow they come.

[Boats]

Thanks Dutch but it goes deeper than that. Sitting for any amount of time in any chair can aggravate the "condition". I have rudders, Hotas joystick and track ir gathering dust. Some things just have to be accepted and dealt with.

It helps that I went to Parris Island and had "Pain is good, extreme pain is extremely good" drilled into my head. According to that axiom I'm in the best shape of my life!:D

[Captain Wreckless]

Just fine. Waiting for the inevitable. :har:

CW :arrgh!:

[Brag]

I want Ubi to go away ahd clear the decks for some comptetent U-boat sim dev to build a good game. Meanwhile I look forward to getting a new computer so I can get back to SH3 :DL

[Webster]

Thanks Dutch but it goes deeper than that. Sitting for any amount of time in any chair can aggravate the "condition". I have rudders, Hotas joystick and track ir gathering dust. Some things just have to be accepted and dealt with.

It helps that I went to Parris Island and had "Pain is good, extreme pain is extremely good" drilled into my head. According to that axiom I'm in the best shape of my life!:D

dont you love those pain management people and their stupid logic :damn:

its all in your head, accept the pain and soon it wont hurt anymore, once you get used to the pain it goes away, pain is good it makes you feel alive.

every one of those weasels probably would be the biggest crybaby around if they ever felt real pain.

i too suffer with constant cronic pain and as you said, sometimes life takes a back seat to managing the pain.

[Boats]

dont you love those pain management people and their stupid logic :damn:

its all in your head, accept the pain and soon it wont hurt anymore, once you get used to the pain it goes away, pain is good it makes you feel alive.

every one of those weasels probably would be the biggest crybaby around if they ever felt real pain.

i too suffer with constant cronic pain and as you said, sometimes life takes a back seat to managing the pain.

+1:up: I even got one guy who said to lie on my back and breath deeply, all well and good until you want to get up and live life. Aqua therapy was all right until I opened the cupboard in the pool area and saw all these votive candles in there. Being a former LE type I began to contemplate the possibility that the pool was being used for extra curricular activities by the staff, if you know what I mean.;)

Back to the subject at hand,

Brag I think with the way alot of people, including those who bought the game, feel about this, ehem, "sim", that Ubi pretty much cleared the decks themselves for someone else to get another subsim up and running.
This might be an opportunity for all the modders to get together and do a GWX mod for SH5 for a profit, sold here on Subsim.com. By the time they got done with it it would be another sim altogether.:up:

[Crimguy]

Quick chime in to OP - I'm not touching this one until:
1) Bugs fixed
2) Mods Out
3) DRM gone.

I was going to put 4) when it's in the bargain bin for $9.99, but in all seriousness I"ll pay full price once its done.

[The Enigma]

@Webster:

Being strong, holding on to the things you deeply believe in, is worth the pain and makes you even feel proud.

That is what lacks this world nowadays, willing to sacrifice. :salute:

[Brag]

+
Brag I think with the way alot of people, including those who bought the game, feel about this, ehem, "sim", that Ubi pretty much cleared the decks themselves for someone else to get another subsim up and running.
This might be an opportunity for all the modders to get together and do a GWX mod for SH5 for a profit, sold here on Subsim.com. By the time they got done with it it would be another sim altogether.:up:

I would definetely be willing to pay for a supermod like GWX. :up:

[GerritJ9]

Quite happy with SH3 + GWX 3.0, and SH4 + TMO1.9, SH4 + Battle for the Baltic and SH + OM. After UBM was released I hoped UBI would also release an IJN addon, plus perhaps an RN/RNethN addon, thus making SH4 a complete Pacific/Far East subsim with all the navies that actually played a role in the submarine war in that theatre. No such luck unfortunately- UBI releases another U-Boot sim. What kills any interest for me is the DRM- I haven't forgotten or forgiven UBI for the IL2 4.05m Boonty Box scam. I decided never to buy SH5 and I still stand by that decision- made much easier by the reviews published so far.
Oh, and just downloaded "Dangers of the Deep" to take a look at that. Plus, Il2: 1946 is also quite demanding of my time so I don't feel I'm missing anything at all.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Anyway, back to the OP's question... No probs holding out here, although "holding out" suggests an element of resistance...which is certainly not the case. I'm yet to be convinced that SH5 is even worth the time it takes to install it.

Ask me again though in six months or so, post patches...
What he said...

[Eightbit]

not to go too off-topic but man that boontybox thing sounds terrible. Hard to believe they didn't have a lawsuit on their hands for it.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Just fine and dandy, thank you very much!!!

(Answering the topic question)

[Captain von Keldunk]

After reading about DRM etc I too thought to hould out,:cry:
but then I remembered that I had voted in a poll that I would buy SH5
no matter what.:-?.... Lucky Me :D:woot:

[Task Force]

Well after buying the game, trying to be positive... I wish I had stayed in the hold out crowd...:shifty:

[Snestorm]

Less interest in SH5 today, than when this thread was started.

[Yak]

This might be an opportunity for all the modders to get together and do a GWX mod for SH5 for a profit, sold here on Subsim.com. By the time they got done with it it would be another sim altogether.:up:

Nobody will be able to make any modification for profit of a Ubisoft product without their express permission.

As it is I'm surprised they have allowed the GWX distribution of a 'donation' to subsim which is the only available source.

Anything more overt would attract the crabs from ubi's legal teams.

[Sharkfin]

Holding out fine. Still havent bought it, but will if UBI releases some quality patches and hopefully removes DRM.

[Boats]

Nobody will be able to make any modification for profit of a Ubisoft product without their express permission.

As it is I'm surprised they have allowed the GWX distribution of a 'donation' to subsim which is the only available source.

Anything more overt would attract the crabs from ubi's legal teams.

I'm not sure of that if the mod is on a seperate disc and contains none of the content of the original. The sim is said to be set up for modding so whatever work someone does and transfers it to another disc is their property. It's like an automobile that I lease (since the leasing analogy seems to be the pertinent issue here), I can add any assessory I like to a vehicle I lease. Radio, stereo, rims, what have you, and before turning in the car I can remove those items and sell them at my whim.

I remember there was a Pacific MOD disc for sale on this board for SH2. I almost bought it but SH3 came out before I did.

As far as where the profits go, supporting subsim would be fine by me.

[tater]

I remain opposed to the DRM simply because I know if I was ever delayed by it, I'd get mad, and I don't want a game to make me mad. Even if unlikely, it is possible with the DRM, so there you have it. SOme have said they'd buy it cheap, it's not the money to me, it's the potential for aggravation—I'd not log onto the DRM if Ubi gave me the game for free.

Regardless, I'm intrigued by some of the new features, and would enjoy having a look under the hood. I alternate between wishing I had it, and seeing things that make me wonder WTF they were thinking like the fact that apparently ships can no longer have multiple skins? WTF.

[Salvadoreno]

holding out just fine with SH4 Operation Monson mods... Not really interested in Sh5 anymore until some awesome mods come out. COnsidering i saw a few videos and the "virtual uboat tour", that seems to be the best thing about Sh5, is virtually empty of men. Sigh.. They coulda gone so far with it and made it so awesome... :down: Makes me wanna cry.. :wah:

::edit::

So how are sales doing anyway? Is Ubi taking it in the rear?? I hope so...

[alexradu89]

holding out just fine with SH4 Operation Monson mods... Not really interested in Sh5 anymore until some awesome mods come out. COnsidering i saw a few videos and the "virtual uboat tour", that seems to be the best thing about Sh5, is virtually empty of men. Sigh.. They coulda gone so far with it and made it so awesome... :down: Makes me wanna cry.. :wah:

::edit::

So how are sales doing anyway? Is Ubi taking it in the rear?? I hope so...
Cheapest copy is 13 pounds from amazon, so yeah I'm pretty sure they're :oops:... you know :salute:

[HundertzehnGustav]

pretty well!

have a clinch with my neighbor, who owns the game... but isnt intop forums and modding all too much.
he invoited me over yesterday, and i played that SHV mission up in the north, where you hae to split a convoy, and let the Luftwafles finish it off.

I didnt let 2 minutes pass without pointing out something that is less good than SHIII modded.

the only reply he had left in the end was "but you gotta admit, it looks faboulous!"

<-- hold out crew member holding up damn well.:yeah:

[IanC]

the only reply he had left in the end was "but you gotta admit, it looks faboulous!"


:haha:... yes SH5 is very purdy.

[KiwiVenge]

have a clinch with my neighbor, who owns the game... but isnt intop forums and modding all too much.


Heh, he should stay away from the entire SH series then ....
Unfortunately all unmodded SH games pale in comparison to their modded form. Hell, even after a month SH5 has a bunch of what I would call required mods.

[Silvensis]

First post - sorry it's a stroppy one... :-)

I admit, I wasn't terribly excited about SH5 anyway, truth be told. To me, it seems that we're just treading old ground anyway - I'm afraid I'm one of those players who'd like to have seen the new SH updated to the modern day or an alternate-history Cold War.

Still, that's a discussion for another thread. In fact, I'd probably have bought SH5 for no other reason than decent sub sims (even rubbish ones) are too rare to ignore them. I want to support the genre; I want to see more and better, more immersive and realistic sims. And although I think the Atlantic-theatre U-boat scenario has been well enough served by SH3, for now at least, that alone would have been reason enough for me to buy 5 as well.

But I won't. I absolutely will not pay to support the use of a high-handed, obnoxious, and insulting DRM system. While this system remains part of SH5, Ubisoft will not get a penny from me for their game. The moment the DRM is removed, I will buy SH5, legitimately, as I have bought - with real, legal money - its four predecessors.

Companies should not be rewarded for treating their legitimate buyers - or prospective buyers - like criminals. I would like to think that the industry, as keen as it may understandably be to protect its product, will soon learn that intrusive and unreasonable DRM of this kind is self-defeating. And let's not pretend that this sort of demand is reasonable. To run a single-player game I should need only the game code and a suitable rig to run it on. A demand that I keep a constant connection (never mind that I might otherwise choose to anyway - that's none of Ubisoft's business) is unnecessary and disproportionate. Behaving like cynical despots simply alienates the honest public while rarely causing any long-term inconvenience to pirates.

[KL-alfman]

The moment the DRM is removed, I will buy SH5, legitimately, as I have bought - with real, legal money - its four predecessors.


same with me.

welcome aboard! :salute:

[Brag]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvensis http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1338326#post1338326)
The moment the DRM is removed, I will buy SH5, legitimately, as I have bought - with real, legal money - its four predecessors.


same with me.

welcome aboard! :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

And ditto.

[IanC]

Am I authorised to Welcome Aboard members with my measly post count? I'll Welcome Aboard him anyways.
And ditto.

[Brag]

Measly?
I should remind you that false modesty is not allowed.
Secondly, a two poster is entitled to welcome a first poster if the secong poster comes in front of the first poster, though it would seem that a first poster was senior to a second poster wno seemingly followed the first poster but was actually ahed of the first poster :D

[Sailor Steve]

Brag, you're Balzing everything up again!:O:

[Brag]

Steve, believe it or not Balz lives. If I find a bit of time off earthquake relief work, Balz will re-emerge. :D

[Hanomag]

Welcome Aboard Herr Kaluen!! :arrgh!:

[Iron Budokan]

Secondly, a two poster is entitled to welcome a first poster if the secong poster comes in front of the first poster, though it would seem that a first poster was senior to a second poster wno seemingly followed the first poster but was actually ahed of the first poster :D

That made me all confuzzled. Which, I admit, is rather easier to do nowadays as I advance in years. :cry:

[momo55]

The moment the DRM is removed, I will buy SH5, legitimately, as I have bought - with real, legal money - its four predecessors .

same with me.

welcome aboard!:03:

[trenken]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.

[tater]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.

I refuse not because it will happen, or even that it is likely, but because it MIGHT happen. Ever.

Sounds like it's months away from even being worth playing though (assuming it gets modded into something resembling realistic submarine warfare).

[Sailor Steve]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.
It doesn't matter how well it works or doesn't work, wrong is wrong.

I notice you haven't said much about the game itself. Any complaints? AI? Interface? Ships running over themselves? Crew management? You didn't even comment on Neal's review. Just DRM. Tell us about your experience with the game, good and bad.

[Reaperman]

Why? So you can argue with him?

[Sailor Steve]

I have nothing to argue about. But since he's never talked about anything except how wonderful the DRM is, I'm curious to know what he thinks of the actual game features, and problems.

[Jimbuna]

Am I authorised to Welcome Aboard members with my measly post count? I'll Welcome Aboard him anyways.
And ditto.

I know the feeling only too well :O:

[jasonb885]

I'm back after another multi-year hiatus from looking at SH4 and walking away to say, yet again that, I'm going to walk away from SH5 as well. Between the DRM and the endless stream of bugs and a patch already released, no thanks! My wallet is still closed to UBI.

I'll be back to comment on SH6 if there is one.

:salute:

[mikeydredd]

No disrespects Sailor but I am definately NOT interested in what Mr Trenken has got to say.

This thread is for the Holdout Gang. We're the bad boys for not blindly throwing our money at UbiSoft like so many lemmings.

He ought to join the Pinkertons and get on one of the goody two-shoes threads or start his own "Why I think This Kind Of DRM Is Brilliant" thread.

Mwahahaha


Dredd :arrgh!:

[Reaperman]

hey! its that guy you guys said was me when i made my DRM thread! I assumed he was banned.

[Bubblehead1980]

Holding out just fine, when I have time want to play subsim I load up SH 4 with TMO or RFB.Once DRM is gone, I will purchase it, anyway it sounds like it will be quite a while before the game is fixed via patchs and mods.

[janh]

I'm back after another multi-year hiatus from looking at SH4 and walking away to say, yet again that, I'm going to walk away from SH5 as well. Between the DRM and the endless stream of bugs and a patch already released, no thanks! My wallet is still closed to UBI.

I'll be back to comment on SH6 if there is one.

:salute:

He is a pirate! He cost "a sale"! ;-)

[Mechman]

I was horribly tempted to buy it, but between the DRM, the cut down feature-set, and the limited hull choices, I'm gonna stick to 3 and 4 for now. I simply won't buy a game with this DRM, period, and I won't pay full retail for a game missing half the features of it's predecessors. If they released a patch a year from now that removed it, and it was $20-$30, I'd buy it in a second.

[Sub Marauder]

I guess the development team just decided to say "we'll just release the game as is and let the modders fix the problems". As much as admire the skills of the modders of Sub Sim, I think even they would have their hands full fixing this game. This is something the developers need to do themselves. If other people are going to fix this mess they should be paid too.

[Nafod81]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.

Just give the hold outs a bit of credit. We complain when they flood the forum with messages and threads. They condense to one thread and someone who hasn't had any issues with the DRM (plug-like me) calls em suckers. It's a bit tasteless honestly.

[frenema]

I'm actually sort of glad that the DRM issue surfaced before the release and gave me a chance for a second thought.

My original plan was to get a new high-end PC a week before the game's release and buy the game on the day of release. With the new DRM announced, I decided to hold out and wait to see how stable it is. If the new DRM was stable and the game was fabulous, I would have bought it right away. As it turns out, even more so than the DRM, the game by itself is broken and incomplete from what I've seen and heard. So I essentially went from: 'hold-out until DRM is out' to 'will not buy even if the DRM is taken out'.

I mean seriously, this game failed on epic proportions... :nope:

[janh]

Just give the hold outs a bit of credit. We complain when they flood the forum with messages and threads. They condense to one thread and someone who hasn't had any issues with the DRM (plug-like me) calls em suckers. It's a bit tasteless honestly.

Nafod, no worries. You can't take someone like Trenken serious who cannot argue in a mature way. There is just some level below which a person isn't even worth a negative reaction anymore. But respects to Neal, he got the situation well sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.

Though I am still very concerned about the implications of the new OSP-DRM trend for this game as well as future games, I am happy to be see some other topics than DRM and "it's broken" meanwhile. Unfortunatley most of the SH owners here still have to vent, and little interesting news about the game itself make it into the forum. A campaign walkthrough, or a few new pages in the modding Wiki about AI scripting would have been awesome (*hint* *hint* *hint*...).

[CapnHeck]

Every review I read, holding out gets easier. :) It seems --based upon reviews-- that perhaps Ubi rushed the devs or something, because the game not only seems to be riddled with poor design choices, but broken, as well.

I'm horribly disappointed, as I have nothing but respect for the Romanian team. But I'll say that every day that passes, my willingness to wait a very, very long time to own SH5 grows and grows.

[Zachstar]

Even with the patches the game seems riddled with issues. Holding out is easy at this point. Now if it was a Red Storm Rising type subsim it would be hard to do.

The DRM sucks even for someone who is now pro DRM like me. If I cant play offline then whatever I will keep my money and you keep your crappy game ubisoft.

[Commie]

Hold out a bit longer guys. Assassins Creed 2 after just 2 weeks is gone from the top ten steam sales chart so it seems that people are voting with their wallets increasing pressure on UBI to cut it's losses. When Settlers 7 and Splinter Cell Conviction go the same way it will be too much for UBI and the'yll have to back down, unless they really just want to abandon the PC market.

[IanC]

Even with the patches the game seems riddled with issues. Holding out is easy at this point. Now if it was a Red Storm Rising type subsim it would be hard to do.


Oh man that was a great subsim.. :rock:

[Der_Meister]

I've been splitting my time between GWX3.0 and Aces of the Deep + Dosbox. Despite it's age, AoTDs campaign is lightyears ahead of anything I've ever played. Finding a convoy, radioing the position to BdU, and then stalking it for days until the rest of the wolfpack arrives is, simply, amazing.

I don't think I'll ever play SH5 again. Just wish AoTD was multiplayer!

[Silvensis]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.
I'm pleased for you. Really, I am. I'm glad you're enjoying the game and that it's caused no problems for you yet. Although, from the sound of other people's comments, I'm not sure quite how you've avoided these problems.

But allow me to correct you on one small point: I'm not 'crying over nothing' in the sense that the game doesn't work properly for me - although I quite understand why people are complaining about that. We pay enough money for PC games these days and I think it's fair to expect that they work.

Nor is my complaint that SH5 isn't the same as the previous games in the series (although, again, I can see why this must frustrate some established fans). I can't comment on how good or how reliable the game is or isn't because I haven't played it.

My complaint is about the reason I haven't played it and why I won't buy it: Ubisoft have chosen to accuse me of piracy, and demand that I prove my innocence to them. I'm not prepared to jump through the hoops they've set up. And the deal - as complainers are often reminded in games forums - is that if you don't like the conditions you don't buy the game. Hence, I've not bought the game.

Please don't pretend I'm 'crying over nothing' when the DRM system Ubisoft have chosen to employ - the thing I'm 'crying over', if that's how you see it - exists as a matter of record. Honestly it makes no difference to me whether you find the DRM to be a hindrance or not: it's there, and it shouldn't be. Like the rest of us, I might be subject to the whim of corporations to an extent, but my pound (dollar, whatever) is what feeds those corporations, and tiny as it may be, it's the little influence we have over how they conduct themselves. But it's no use us withholding our money if we don't tell the companies why.

Hold out a bit longer guys. Assassins Creed 2 after just 2 weeks is gone from the top ten steam sales chart so it seems that people are voting with their wallets
Amazon UK currently shows SH5 reduced from £34.99 to £12.95; 27 1-star reviews out of 36. Assassin's Creed II down from £34.99 to £15.98; 53 1-star reviews out of 62.

One would hope they're getting at least an inkling that something's amiss...

(On a related note, I still wonder if they might boost their sales a little if they didn't start out charging nearly forty quid for a game...?)

[theluckyone17]

So I bought this really good documentary today on the Lagarto. Good stuff there... watched half of it while eating supper and tossing a load of laundry in. Oddly enough, the documentary came with this copy of SH5...

Yeah, I succumbed. :nope:

I ran into some extra cash, and blew a bunch of it on the wife. I never knew shampoo and conditioner was that expensive. She suggested I spend the rest of it on something for myself. I walked the Best Buy software aisle, dodging the teens, and realized the only game that tweaked my interest was SH5.

Then I watched all the teens picking up the FPS & RTS games... counted the stock levels of SH5 versus the others... and realized that it probably didn't matter.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Well ive spend many, many hours on this game so far, not a single disconnect. Lol @ ppl crying over nothing for many weeks over this, turns out it works just fine, just like the rest of my games that use anything similar to DRM.

Suckers.

I wish I could be just like you but alas :wah:

Australian gamers unable to play Settlers 7 due to DRM woes (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166750)


Anyway I take comfort in the fact that sooner or later you will get bitten bad by this DRM and I hope you have it real bad when you do :yeah:

[darkone999]

I dont cry about anything..I state my point and go on with life..I love the SH series..But I wont buy SH5 until the always on drm internet connection is out of the game..summer is almost here and I see the sales of SH5 droping like a rock because most people like me have been through a long winter and will be outside enjoying the great weather and not too worried about buying a game while I am cooking out,going to the lake and pool etc.....Anyways I have a PC,360,wii,and psp not to worry lots of other games to play..of course I still play SH3 and 4...happy summer ubi........


Tim
P.S
summer also brings girls in swimwear and your never to old for that...hehe

[Apache312]

Im still holding strong. I will not sway to Draconian DRM. Im all for protecting your investment, but this is too much...and I just say NO.

[SurfnSea]

Still easily holding out. I first posted on page 7 of this thread, on March 19th.

I check in here to see what the latest on SH5 is. I'm getting the feeling the game will not get to great even with modding. Even if it does and still has DRM I won't buy. Some other posters have eloquently stated why DRM is bad joke.

DRM stays in, my money stays in my bank account.

Besides, I'm busy trying to survive a depth charge attack from a Japanese DD (SH4). The USS Snapper is sitting on the ocean bottom with crew furiously making repairs as both bow and stern tubes have damage as we hear the churning propeller blades of that rusty tin piece of metal from Japan... Aft torpedo room is nearly full of water...our survival is very much in doubt.. If repairs reach the point where we can fight back we're going the blast that GD DD outta the water...eh...what was the original topic? Oh yeah...sorry...too engrossed with SH4 at the moment.

[Adriatico]

Following all DRM discussions: Assasin's Creed 2 is "DRM unlocked".

Kids from various forums are playing full game - with all chepters and sidequests... without Ubi server. (Don't ask for links or descriptions...)

So... in Ubi's DRM task force (AC2, Settlers, SH5) flagship AC2 is sinking... As it proves to be realy good game - it was the first one.

SH5 is not their primary target, due to bad name and rewievs... there is no "glory" in SH5 unlocking...

The black humor is that "group" was informing gaming crowd on each step of project... day by day.
And obviously Ubi managed to turn the bad guys - into "freedom fighters" and "virtual heroes"... with unbelivable support and cheering from various forums...

Just a comment on DRM developments...

[Iron Budokan]

I'm still happily manning the barricades. No interest whatsoever in the game under current circumstances. :salute:

Seriously, it's not a big deal. I'm kinda busy with other things anyway. I ordered my new computer Friday so when it comes in I hope to be back playing /3 and /4. I'm good. :yeah:

[theluckyone17]

...Seriously, it's not a big deal...That's the point that I got to... when the wife's two bottles of shampoo and conditioner cost nearly as much as SH5 did (within $5). More if you count my employee discount on SH5. As for the DRM... well, it hasn't impinged upon my ability to play SH5 yet... and if it does, we'll see what happens.

[KiwiVenge]

well, it hasn't impinged upon my ability to play SH5 yet... and if it does, we'll see what happens.

That seems to be the standard now a days. Other then one person from China I think it was, I haven't seen any 'can't connect' issues being reported for SH5 since the first two weekends.
It was my biggest concern at the time, I tentatively bought SH5 (after the first weekend where no one reported connection problems) knowing I would go off the deep end if I had chronic connection problems. So far I have yet to have a single problem whatsoever.
Installed a couple mods, shut off 'online saves' and SH5 has been 100% stable.
However I still think they should dump the DRM for those that do not have internet connections all the time.

[Uber Gruber]

Holding out is becoming easier by the day. I haven't been able to log on for a couple of weeks, i'm not sure why. Perhapps I criticised SH5 too much and got sent to the brig, or perhapps some unknown technical issue occured. Fortunately however, I was still able to follow SH5 events as a guest browser here and as a member of various other forums.

I have to say, I really do feel sorry for those having connection issues and the number of bugs you've been experiencing. I'm also happy for the few that seem to be having no problems at all. Its a bit of an unecessary lotery though.

As a software developer myself, albeit on a more scientific level, I have sympathy with the devs and the timelines imposed on them. No one goes home happy when they know their completely unfinsihed work is peddled on the market for the sake of a few sales extra on an end of quarter report. Such madness should never have been able to creep into the gaming industry. It's bad enough it existing in the business market.


Unfortunately, such irresponsible management and greed centric commercialism with scant regard to the customer base just makes me so mad. So mad that I find it hard not to vent my frustration in these SH5 forums.

So it is with great sadness that I have decided not to visit the SH5 forum anymore. Well at least until I buy the game. And I wont be doing that whilst it still has DRM.

So tally ho chaps, I really do hope they get it sorted for you all. In the meantime you'll find me hanging out in the SH3 mods forums.

Long Live SH3 and all who sail her.:salute:

Cheers, UG

[Tigrone]

I've been very carefully considering this. I have no problems with DRM, but the constant Internet connection requirement is just not acceptable to me without a significant value going with it. I do not like many aspects of the game play that I have seen, and I think some serious reconfiguration by modders is needed.

I will lurk about and keep an eye on improvements, but I am not hopeful. I am really distressed about this, as normally I would buy a couple of copies just to support the franchise. I will re-evaluate in September.

Oh, not being able to play in my beloved U-38 is not a small thing. I played SH3 out of the box and had a great time. Now, it is amazing, due to the work of the wizards of GWX. I do not see that in SH5.

[OldFrenchy]

I have not yet bought it- have been waiting to see how the DRM thing has impacted play, what has been fixed, and more importantly, what is still broken. It looks like a stunning game, but I don't like the idea of not really owning it....and I don't have time to endlessly fuss with it.

[supposedtobeworking]

Still doing fine here - and I don't have any urge to buy it after reading about the bugs anyways. I did the same thing with SH3 and waited until it was patched and looked worth playing, and I'll do the same with SH5 provided that the constant online connection is removed. Until then, I have no problem playing the SH3 and 4 with the superb mods out there and now that the internal compartments have been modeled and are continuing to be worked on, my SH5 withdrawal symptoms have vanished almost completely. I'll be able to hold out for a good while longer suffice it to say.

[Sekure]

I posted earlier in this thread but I had an idea and thought I'd update it.

Still holding out purely because of the DRM and the DRM alone.



Now to speak directly to the DRM. UBI says it's there to curb piracy. But it narrows their sales market as well.


Remove the DRM and in its place:
How about including in the box a USB key device. It would only cost a few pennies more to manufacture and only 1 per box.

Before you launch SH5 you would connect the USB device. When SH5 launches it would check the device and once it authenticates (encrypted unique serial number that matches the DVD etc or even a resistance chip) it would allow you to play.

It would absolutely useless to pirate the software since you'd also need the physical USB key but it would eliminate the need for a full time internet connection.

Also, if you wanted to re-sell your copy you could since you'd sell the USB key with the game.


While I agree that companies should protect themselves from piracy I don't believe that an intrusive DRM is the answer because of many reasons. I would buy the game if it came with some kind of hardware key - even if it cost $2 more to include the key.

[Placoderm]

I posted earlier in this thread but I had an idea and thought I'd update it.

Still holding out purely because of the DRM and the DRM alone.



Now to speak directly to the DRM. UBI says it's there to curb piracy. But it narrows their sales market as well.


Remove the DRM and in its place:
How about including in the box a USB key device. It would only cost a few pennies more to manufacture and only 1 per box.

Before you launch SH5 you would connect the USB device. When SH5 launches it would check the device and once it authenticates (encrypted unique serial number that matches the DVD etc or even a resistance chip) it would allow you to play.

It would absolutely useless to pirate the software since you'd also need the physical USB key but it would eliminate the need for a full time internet connection.

Also, if you wanted to re-sell your copy you could since you'd sell the USB key with the game.


While I agree that companies should protect themselves from piracy I don't believe that an intrusive DRM is the answer because of many reasons. I would buy the game if it came with some kind of hardware key - even if it cost $2 more to include the key.

Of course this is an excellent idea, and has been used quite successfully in games such as Steel Beasts Pro for years...but it incorrectly assumes that Ubisoft installed the DRM to prevent piracy. Regardless of the load of fetid horse feces that Ubisoft has been feeding the public about their war on piracy, the reality is that DRM is simply a way to control their customer as a captive market. As implemented by Ubisoft, DRM is no more than a distribution platform for their future downloadable content to increase the price of the product over time by incrementally releasing things that previously would have been included in the original game...and all at a cost to the consumer. Additionally, the DRM prevents the migration of the software to a third party, preventing any future reselling of the title to that third party when the original purchaser is done using it. Once you have installed it and registered it in your name, it is forever associated with you and you alone.

A USB dongle would be the wisest choice to truly prevent piracy, but that would require the assumption that Ubisoft valued it's customers as anything more than a captive revenue stream...and that is not the case anymore at all.



:salute:

[Sekure]

Of course this is an excellent idea, and has been used quite successfully in games such as Steel Beasts Pro for years...but it incorrectly assumes that Ubisoft installed the DRM to prevent piracy. Regardless of the load of fetid horse feces that Ubisoft has been feeding the public about their war on piracy, the reality is that DRM is simply a way to control their customer as a captive market. As implemented by Ubisoft, DRM is no more than a distribution platform for their future downloadable content to increase the price of the product over time by incrementally releasing things that previously would have been included in the original game...and all at a cost to the consumer. Additionally, the DRM prevents the migration of the software to a third party, preventing any future reselling of the title to that third party when the original purchaser is done using it. Once you have installed it and registered it in your name, it is forever associated with you and you alone.

A USB dongle would be the wisest choice to truly prevent piracy, but that would require the assumption that Ubisoft valued it's customers as anything more than a captive revenue stream...and that is not the case anymore at all.



:salute:

Thanks and yes, your points are all valid but in my post I was merely attempting to take UBIsoft at face value and offer an alternative to their current DRM that would prove to be more effective versus pirates.

And I'm going to investigate Steel Beasts Pro now because I've never heard of it. Thanks!

[supposedtobeworking]

Now that makes sense. I have personally seen a fully working cracked version of Silent Hunter 5 that plays with no problems as far as I could tell and does NOT need an internet connection, though I do not own the said copy and do not condone piracy. So the DRM is obviously not doing the job Ubisoft claims it would. I am ready, eager and willing to buy SH5 and support the franchise that I love, but am absolutely refusing to do so until this scheme is stopped. My wallet is on standby Ubisoft-you make the call.

[Dutch]

Still holding out and probably will not buy at all. SH3 and SH4 w/ O:M is much better from everything I have heard about SH5.

Oh yea did I mention I do not care about the graphics and the ability to walk?

[The Enigma]

Now that makes sense. I have personally seen a fully working cracked version of Silent Hunter 5 that plays with no problems as far as I could tell and does NOT need an internet connection, though I do not own the said copy and do not condone piracy. So the DRM is obviously not doing the job Ubisoft claims it would. I am ready, eager and willing to buy SH5 and support the franchise that I love, but am absolutely refusing to do so until this scheme is stopped. My wallet is on standby Ubisoft-you make the call.

Yep, I've seen it too.
No need for a connection, all levels available.

[THE_MASK]

I think if ubi dont patch out the drm then they are cutting off there nose to spite there face . The price has fallen to a level that if the drm is removed i bet there would have good sales of sh5 . I think people would buy sh5 now at a reduced price if the drm was removed .

[Ducimus]

They probably won't, just to save face. After running their mouths about how its not going away, reversal now might .. i dunno require something they don't have. A sense of humility. Snobby frenchmen that they are and all that. :O:

[SteamWake]

IBTL

sorry cheap shot.

[Nico09]

The classic whitesnake tune "here we go again" springs to mind. }:-(

[tater]

I'd buy it at full price sans DRM, and I won't even play it (though I will look at the editor, etc—heck I might even mod some, but only on ASW assets).

[gutted]

Since playing SH5 for a month i tried playing SH3 & 4 last weekend... and i just cant do it.

Yeah SH5 has its problems... but i just cant go back now.

[CaptainHaplo]

I have a friend who bought it - so I have played it just a bit. Probably 5-6 hours total.

I am in no rush to go buy it.... DRM even excluded at this point. With it, its as easy as pie for me to say no.

[Iridium]

It's not really a case of "holding out" for me anymore. I don't follow up on this forum anymore, I don't keep listening for news of patches or of the DRM being removed (or cracked).

I'm just not interested in the game anymore. Stopped playing SH4, too. This whole thing's just kinda soured me on SH in general.

[Takao]

I'm doing terrible! I don't think I'm going to last any longer.


DAMMIT release Civilization V and Diablo III NOW!!!!

Oh, wait...

This thread is about another game, right. Squirrel Hunter V, Silent Hunger V, It's an "SHV" game, it's definitely an "SHV" game!

[Steeltrap]

No difficulty at all.

I don't like the changes to the game play around the "speak to your troops about a load of nonsense".

Apart from that there are the innumerable quality problems.

Lastly, the "system that dare not speak its name"......

I'd have expected SHV to start from where SHIII with a super-mod (GWX or NYGM, I've played both) finished. It hasn't, so I've no longer any interest. I still visit the forum as I've been here quite a long time, but this is one I won't be buying. I'm happy for others to enjoy it, however, and wish them and the game well.

[TDK1044]

I'm in no hurry. The price has already dropped by 50 percent in under a month. The retailers can't sell this game. By Christmas, Ubisoft will have abandoned it and you'll find it in the bargain bin for $9.99.

Then I'll buy it...if there is a patch to play it offline. :)

[thyro]

I found a nice SH5 subsim replacemente and I've been playing it since, now writing few mods... UK Truck Simulator :P

yeah holding on nice... new sim truck driver the new terror on British Sim Roads - ACE of high speed haulage and motorway pile ups! :yeah:

SH5 perhaps one day... yeah one day... but not tomorrow neither next month

[mikeydredd]

Still holding out.

You can get it for just over a tenner (£10) now - a month after it was released!!

Draw your own conclusions. . . .

If I could pay the Devs and modders direct, and cut out Ubisoft and the DRM, I would still be happy to pay full price.

What twonks Ubisoft actually are.

Dredd :arrgh!:

[Ablemaster]

Ive got SH5 but to be honest hardly ever use it now, lovely graphics wrapped up nicely in pretty bows but that dont make a game. The ai is so bad its rediculous, they attack with guns which have sniper sights on, then they trundle on their merry way and ignore me. If the ai is improved may get into it a bit more, i keep going back from time to time just in case i can have a good game but no chance. Using SH3 and 4 more, and keep hoping for SH5 to improve, its a real shame, could of been so much and who knows may be some day. But until that day will be keeping a wide berth and just picking at it, from time to time. Not expecting too much from the patch, would need a super patch to make this baby work like it should.

[GlobalExplorer]

Currently playing SHIV + UBM with OM etc and I'm loving it. Maybe I'll reconsider SHV in one or two years if UBI makes an addon and removes the crippleware. But doesn't look like this will happen, more like they have given up this franchise before it was released. I think Ubis next subsim will indeed be Naval Assault - The Killing Tide ;)

[Randomizer]

No problems staying away. Even without the OSP "feature" SH5 has nothing to offer. For me, the fancy graphics are irrelvant, have zero interest in the RPG elements and disagree with the developers fundimental design philosophy, basing their version of U-Boat "history" upon a movie based on a novel - by definition a work of fiction.

If SH5, the Game of the Movie of the Book Das Boot represents the future of submarine simulations then for me the franchise ended with a well modded SH4.

Nothing else to see here, am moving on now.

Best regards to those who enjoy playing it. And to those who do not.

[ViperU48]

Still holdin' out here too. Graphics are very alluring but I am certain I will have many problems with DRM as my internet connection is quite unstable.

Being told I can't play a game I payed 50$+ for because my internet kicks-out will most likely raise my blood pressure to dangerous levels...

[Reece]

Not interested until the OSP is removed!

[scrapser]

I'm doing terrible! I don't think I'm going to last any longer.


DAMMIT release Civilization V and Diablo III NOW!!!!

Oh, wait...

This thread is about another game, right. Squirrel Hunter V, Silent Hunger V, It's an "SHV" game, it's definitely an "SHV" game!

Two words....

Carrier Command

[DarthVrooks]

I was so excited when I heard there was going to be a fifth game, read it the same day I saw talk of "MechWarrior 5" and a new "Crimson Skies" game. Then I read the details, and as more was revealed was completely disillusioned with it altogether. I could live with the DRM thing I guess if the game was worthwhile but with all the bugs and half developed concepts like talking to your crew and moving through the ship I have no plans to ever buy this game until if\when it is fixed. I don't usually buy a game because it can be fixed with mods, something about that just seems wrong. Supporting a company that throws out a game trying to exploit it's fan base really hacks me off. In fact only 2 games I've ever bought have been completely enhanced with community based mods, "Star Trek: Legacy" (holy crap did the stock game suck) and "Silent Hunter 4" (which led me here to subsim). I've been active in a few mod communities in the past 15 years beta testing\de-bugging and such and so far the subsim crowd is by far the best.

I think it's a shame that after putting out the only real submarine simulators in the industry UBIsoft changed their whole design around the way Hollywood "embellishes" an actual event (based on a true story!!) What's really upsetting is this is the same kind of fall that killed off the space sim games and the good flight simulators. 17 years later I'm still playing Wing Commander 3 and 4 and several of my Novalogic flight sims. The graphics are obviously quite dated, but they were well designed submersive experiences for me (w00t bad sub pun:p) That is what I look for in a game. Something that I can play over and over again and even though I may know exactly what will happen it doesn't matter because the experience is so much fun. A half assed buggy sub game that looks really pretty is junk....kinda reminds me of Windows Vista :O:

[Immacolata]

Still holding out here. Actually went and bought *blush* Settlers 7 :oops::oops::oops:, which I'm having a jolly good time with. Nice to see that Ubi still harbors ambitions that matches both their budget and developer's abilities. The DRM is a non-issue so far, knock-on-wood. I sure hope it stays that way!

[thyro]

Still holding out here. Actually went and bought *blush* Settlers 7 :oops::oops::oops:, which I'm having a jolly good time with. Nice to see that Ubi still harbors ambitions that matches both their budget and developer's abilities. The DRM is a non-issue so far, knock-on-wood. I sure hope it stays that way!

:nope:

They why you holding for? Who gets one DRM service can also have all other DRM services...

[Uber Gruber]

During my recent holiday I got the chance to take my nephew's SH5 for a spin. Don't worry, i'm still one of the holding out croud due to UBIs complete and utter nonsense that is DRM....but feel it only fair to log my oppinion of the game after finally having played it.

It is a very good game, fact. Yes, it has bugs, lots of them, and yes it took time to change the way I play from SH3 style to SH5 style, but the underlying game engine and mechanics are all there. I can see now exactly what the devs were alluding to when they said its a lot more moddable. It really does have the potential to run away with the Sub Sim crown - if only they would remove the stupid DRM which is strangling the game and UBI sales. Madness!

I love many aspects of the game and it offers much more immersion and uncertainty than SH3 or Sh4 and anyone who has followed my rants...err..<cough>...posts over the years will be quite shocked by my words here. It really is a thoroughbred, but the bugs make it more like a TVR (and DRM makes it more like a turbocharged Massy Fergusun).

I can see now why some of the older SubSimmers tend to defend the game. They can see what lies beneath its ugly skin, and now so can I. So a big thanks goes to the devs, they have done very well.

And yet, after this glowing report, I have decided I still will not buy the game whilst the imposing DRM exists. I love sub sims, i've been playing SH3 for 5 years, its the best game i've ever owned and the one that has garnered my attention the longest.....and I go all the way back to the Commodore PET days....but I just cannot and will not buy SH5 with it's intrusive DRM on principle.

I tend to be a bit of an optimist and thus wish for a better world....UBI's intrusive DRM has no part in that world so sorry UBI, excellent game but no thanks.

Cheers, UG

[Reece]

Yes I am hoping they will eventually patch the DRM out, then I will buy it, however if they never patch it out I will never buy it!!:hmmm:

[Commie]

With the money I saved by not buying SH5 I got Napoleon Total War Imperial Edition for a bargain.:rock:

[OakGroove]

Still holding out here. Actually went and bought *blush* Settlers 7 :oops::oops::oops:

:dead:

Now a motivational video. For those still holding out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF1PR_U03zA

[robbo180265]

:dead:

Now a motivational video. For those still holding out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF1PR_U03zA

Hehe quite funny that. I hear that the next patch is (hopefully) fixing all those harbour issues.

[Immacolata]

:nope:

They why you holding for? Who gets one DRM service can also have all other DRM services...

It wasn't the DRM holding me off SHV. It was being burned twice by SHIII and SHIV buggy releases PLUS a completely new and not properly tested DRM-system that made me hold on to my horses. You know a game that you KNOW is going to be hella buggy from a developer that also makes their own DRM system? Whats it gonna be? Probably buggy too :know:

[Bilge_Rat]

During my recent holiday I got the chance to take my nephew's SH5 for a spin. Don't worry, i'm still one of the holding out croud due to UBIs complete and utter nonsense that is DRM....but feel it only fair to log my oppinion of the game after finally having played it.

It is a very good game, fact. Yes, it has bugs, lots of them, and yes it took time to change the way I play from SH3 style to SH5 style, but the underlying game engine and mechanics are all there. I can see now exactly what the devs were alluding to when they said its a lot more moddable. It really does have the potential to run away with the Sub Sim crown - if only they would remove the stupid DRM which is strangling the game and UBI sales. Madness!

I love many aspects of the game and it offers much more immersion and uncertainty than SH3 or Sh4 and anyone who has followed my rants...err..<cough>...posts over the years will be quite shocked by my words here. It really is a thoroughbred, but the bugs make it more like a TVR (and DRM makes it more like a turbocharged Massy Fergusun).

I can see now why some of the older SubSimmers tend to defend the game. They can see what lies beneath its ugly skin, and now so can I. So a big thanks goes to the devs, they have done very well.

And yet, after this glowing report, I have decided I still will not buy the game whilst the imposing DRM exists. I love sub sims, i've been playing SH3 for 5 years, its the best game i've ever owned and the one that has garnered my attention the longest.....and I go all the way back to the Commodore PET days....but I just cannot and will not buy SH5 with it's intrusive DRM on principle.

I tend to be a bit of an optimist and thus wish for a better world....UBI's intrusive DRM has no part in that world so sorry UBI, excellent game but no thanks.

Cheers, UG

Very fair and objective post and a good summary of why I am giving SH5 a chance.

I am also hoping Ubi will drop this DRM scheme. I really can't see them keeping this in for more than 6-12 months and patching it out after most of the sales have been made.

[minsc_tdp]

I'm not going to go on a tirade here, not at all. I simply have decided not to buy until the DRM is gone, and my feeling is that there are many others like me. Seems like there should be somewhere we can sign up (kind of like a petition I suppose, but more of a "commitment to buy" list) which might get some attention. Wanted to see if something like this is already out there with a lot of signatures on it that I could hop onto.

[Nico09]

I'm not going to go on a tirade here, not at all. I simply have decided not to buy until the DRM is gone, and my feeling is that there are many others like me. Seems like there should be somewhere we can sign up (kind of like a petition I suppose, but more of a "commitment to buy" list) which might get some attention. Wanted to see if something like this is already out there with a lot of signatures on it that I could hop onto.


It wont go, simple as, i think DRM is here to stay, sorry :cry:

[mcarlsonus]

we've beaten this DRM thing to death! Let's get over it and start talkin' SUBMARINE !!

[Vreith]

not another drm thread! go away!

[mcarlsonus]

+ 812

[Brag]

DRM is about to collapse. It will happen first with AC2. The big problem is that you can't patch around DRM so peeps who bought SH5 will be pretty much stuck with it. What this does, unless Ubi releases a DRM free version one won't have much of a choice but getting a pirated version, which is DRM free.

A fine example of the law of unintended results.

Keep an eye on AC2 to see what will happen with SHV. It's going to be a laugh a minute. :D

[mcarlsonus]

DRM is about to collapse. It will happen first with AC2. The big problem is that you can't patch around DRM so peeps who bought SH5 will be pretty much stuck with it. What this does, unless Ubi releases a DRM free version one won't have much of a choice but getting a pirated version, which is DRM free.

A fine example of the law of unintended results.

Keep an eye on AC2 to see what will happen with SHV. It's going to be a laugh a minute. :D

Meaning no disrespect, but I believe there will be a lot of disagreement on that - see anything written lately by, "Ducimus" regarding his incredible talent with ensuring you_will_never_leave_this_place_alive !

[Brag]

Meaning no disrespect, but I believe there will be a lot of disagreement on that - see anything written lately by, "Ducimus" regarding his incredible talent with ensuring you_will_never_leave_this_place_alive !

Huh??????

[mcarlsonus]

Look at, "Ducimus'" postings regarding his AI mod he had to yank due to complaints of how much it added to the difficulty when his non-developmentally-disabled adversaries began to chase one's hapless boot! Here's the original:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905&highlight=ducimus+ai

[ddrgn]

Look at, "Ducimus'" postings regarding his AI mod he had to yank due to complaints of how much it added to the difficulty when his non-developmentally-disabled adversaries began to chase one's hapless boot! Here's the original:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905&highlight=ducimus+ai

Come on MC, Ducimus himself isn't the end all to things. DRM is here to stay and whether or not he likes it or not, Ubi could care less.

I have had no trouble using the DRM and modding, as my PC is always connected via a wonderful new technology called a cable modem ;P

I couldn't mod SH5 on a laptop during a flight anyways, imagine that?

[Ducimus]

I'm just a guy, i put my pants on one leg at a time, I have opinions that are no more important then anyone elses, i don't do squat without my morning pot of coffee, and i think i've have had more time being being brigged and heelhauled then anyone else that can still post on subsim (including dowly). I still wonder how i got "best of 2009" considering i was keelhauled for most of that year.

The magical myth of Ducimus the mad modder, was never really deserved, nor wanted, and ends with SH4. If i do anything with SH5, it will be playing the game and posting patrol logs or screenshots - same as everybody else.

On top of all that, there are FAR more talented modders floating around here then I.

[Westbroek]

Come on Duci, I've seen you put pants on...tell everybody the truth. :D

[SteamWake]

I'm not going to go on a tirade here, not at all. I simply have decided

Loss of interest in 3... 2...

[jazman]

The magical myth of Ducimus the mad modder, was never really deserved, nor wanted, and ends with SH4.

So it's "Ducimus the mad" then?

[Buddahaid]

So it's "Ducimus the mad" then?

That has a nice middle ages ring to it. :hmmm:

[janh]

Yeah, I read an Ubisoft statement on Eurogamer today that they definitely will stick tightly to the new DRM. In about 2 weeks Ubisoft Corporate will release the Q4 2009 sales report, which will surely give some insights on how sales peformed since SHV release. Particularly ACII and Settlers 7 will be very important indicators as to whether we can expect any change on Ubisoft policy there.
Unfortunately I agree with other statements here that DRM is likely there to stay in Ubisofts products... until they withdraw entirely from the PC segment within the next 18 months due to (I dare to predict) "extreme increase in piracy" (read: "having screwed their own loyal customers").

There used to be a petition thread here somewhere, but I had a sad 400 entries. Forget about that, subsim is too small and unimportant in the big picture. But there is somewhere a "big" petition online regarding ACII, with several 10.000 signatures meanwhile. If at all, ACII players make their voice heard.

[minsc_tdp]

Loss of interest in 3... 2...

Why are you posting?

bla bla bla nothing useful

Ok I found and signed this, only 42 signatures:

http://www.petitiononline.com/19391945/petition.html

[mcarlsonus]

The statement I was referring to, and chastised for, was, "The big problem is that you can't patch around DRM so peeps who bought SH5 will be pretty much stuck with it." in Brag's posting above

In the context of the commonly-assumed notion that independent Subsim modders will ultimately fix/enhance parts of the game that Ubi leaves in a primitive state, my statement remains valid.

[Steeltrap]

I still wonder how i got "best of 2009" considering i was keelhauled for most of that year.

Maybe that's why you got it? A sub-award (pardon the pun): most keelhauled of '09?

:D

[michaelws]

No problems here holding out. Loving SH 4.

[darkone999]

well summer is in full swing and I am loving every second of it..been swimming almost everyday..Rollacoasters at kings island,myrtle beach in seven days,cook outs on the patio.....love it...

Hum drum still holding out on SH5...have they removed drm yet....

hehe

later

[Akula4745]

On top of all that, there are FAR more talented modders floating around here then I.

Dunno about that, Sir D... I am playing your TMO 2.0 and loving it. Yes I am using the easier AI patch, but still enjoying the escorts aggressiveness. And for the life of me I dunno why... but I always thought there would be a shortage of targets in TMO - not the case at all, tagged a Kongo and a liner on the current patrol for some nice tonnage. Many thanks for your excellent work...

So basically, the holdout crowd is playing SH4 TMO 2.0... :smug:

[green_abobo]

i am holding out for both the DRM crap, and mainly because i don't have a dual core processor.

call me old fashioned.

it looks cool though. is it historically correct? how does this run on laptops? does it run on laptops?

[TarJak]

Still no plans to buy until the internet tether is gone and the bugs are closer to being fixed. The price is still too high here at AU$45. When it hits $10 I might go get a copy to see how sucky it really is.

[Justaguyinnc]

I stayed off this till it went on sale. At 30-35.00 I figure i did my part.
They paid for the drm on it, I got a deal on price. oh btw, their new UBIstore has it for 30 bucks this week.

I like sub games. I don't own the companies nor have any idea why they wish to do these drm things but, it's up to them. I feel as a community , yep we can boycott till the cow comes home, but who do we really hurt? How many more good submarine games (cough sims) are out there ?
How many days do you miss playing a wonderful game? controls are different? So, learn them again! it's a NEW version it suppose to be different! And hopefully better, which I find to "ME" is better.
Bugs? so? which version didn't have bugs that the community ended up fixing?

Did the lack of purchasing run UBISOFT off in support?
Who loses? and the big part..who cares? UBISOFT is not losing sleep.
More still buy this, and enjoy it.
Im through holding my breath and pouting.

This SH5 with a modding community will be the BEST in series!
You can stick your chests out and brag on SH3 and now SH4 , which was mudslung at first also. But in all honesty, i never seen a ships captian teleport to the next station. So out the window with the statements as best "sim". SH5 has the "feel" of being on a submarine and thats what I been looking for.

All SH5 needs is the modding community behind it. Which it seems to be having as of late. look up some mods..great work guys!!

I enjoy every minute in this SH5 and kinda wished I didn't pout at first about DRM which i could care less about and bought it at release, who knows, maybe then it would still be supported. sometimes, i think communites can hurt themselves. Subsim being the largest place for people to look at reviews etc by those that actually play it, could really damper a game as much as boost it.
Fortunate for myself, I know when enough is enough and go with my own thoughts. Especially when it deals in "my" fun time as I am not a fanatic about anything less then my grandchildren.

no need to flame me..it's all my opinion and I care less about anyone elses.. aint we all like that? lol

[tonschk]

I like sub games.

How many more good submarine games (cough sims) are out there ?

Controls are different? So, learn them again! it's a NEW version it suppose to be different! And hopefully better, which I find to "ME" is better.

Bugs? so? which version didn't have bugs that the community ended up fixing?

This SH5 with a modding community will be the BEST in series!

But in all honesty, i never seen a ships captian teleport to the next station. SH5 has the "feel" of being on a submarine and thats what I been looking for.


All SH5 needs is the modding community behind it. Which it seems to be having as of late. look up some mods..great work guys!!



:DL :yeah: I Totally and Completely AGREE :rock: :salute:

.

[TwistedFemur]

I have played it, and have no desire to buy it, or play it.

[Brag]

Undrt no circumstances will I buy something so stupid as the OBS/DRM. That´s the big firewall that keeps me from submitting. Totally unacceptable.

I´m happy with SH3/GWX. No server crud, no hassles. The longer the DRM crud stays, the less interest in SH5.

I´m a happy and independent sailor telling Ubi, Take your cruddy DRM and shove it where it belongs :D

[Yak]

Still no plans to buy until the internet tether is gone and the bugs are closer to being fixed. The price is still too high here at AU$45. When it hits $10 I might go get a copy to see how sucky it really is.

Yep, first time I saw it on store shelves, it was marked 50% off :har:

Even still I wouldn't buy it.

[Harmsway!]

Well DRM is holding me back but now with SH5 priced at $20 bucks it almost doesn't matter anymore. I mean I spent more on taking my wife to a movie and that last only a couple hours.

I'm still holding out though. More so until I get a better gaming machine.

[Sailor Steve]

The DRM is wrong, period. If somebody gave me a copy I would give it right back. If the DRM is removed, I will gladly pay full price. It's not a matter of price vs worth, it's a matter of principle.

[Icerider]

Still sailin' SH IV till the DRM dies. :D

[wingtip]

I bought sh 3 and sh4 but i still refuse to buy sh5... holding out just fine ubi... choke on that.

By the time they dump drm and fix some more bugs (not all im sure) they will be halfway finished with sh6 and i'll just wait for that...and if they decide not to do another sh title then its their own dam fault for shoveling that crap they call sh5 out the door..... I have no desire at the moment to purchase sh5 and be troubled by all its failures...

Currently im enjoying arma2 operation arrowhead for my sim needs :D

wake up ubi and smell the diesel fuel...

[WarlordATF]

Still holding out.

First off, i prefer fleetboats which is the true origin of Silent Hunter. U-Boats are ok, but they just don't draw me in like the US Subs.

Second, The DRM is too heavy handed IMO. Its like Ubi telling me that i can only play the game their way and thats not a good tactic to get money outta my wallet.

Third, Since FlakMonkeys Interior was released for SH3 i can almost walk the sub from one end to the other (minus the torpedo rooms) in a sim that spans the entire war and has most of the bugs worked out. A little bit of eye candy will never replace good solid game play IMO so SH5 does not have much to offer me over a modded SH3.

Lastly, from the screenshots i have seen, i hate the user interface. It should look like the actual controls, not something from star wars. That UI is so generic it could be used in almost any naval sim and reflects very little of what the actual U-Boat controls were like.

So, I'm doing just fine without it. If they drop the DRM i might buy it to check it out, but i doubt it will ever be on my "Must Buy" list.

[HEMISENT]

I guess I'm of the same mind set as Steve, I'll gladly pay full price for SH5 once the drm is no longer present. The way things are going that may be awhile and by then our modders will have more time to work their magic and hopefully make it closer to something it should have been in the first place.
I'm not looking for another patch and certainly hold out little hope to no hope for an expansion of the series. I think Ubi shot themselves in the foot with a dull bullet over this one.

[momo55]

The DRM is wrong, period. If somebody gave me a copy I would give it right back. If the DRM is removed, I will gladly pay full price. It's not a matter of price vs worth, it's a matter of principle.

Nothing to add ...i 100% agree .

[TDK1044]

No change here. Without additional patches and DRM removal, I'll follow with interest but won't purchase. :)

[The General]

There's no way a true Subsim fan could resist playing SH5 for this length of time. Have got hold of a pirate copy TDK1044?

I agree that the game needs another Patch, but that day is never gonna come. My hope is that the modding Community work their magic, they've already done so much. Of course you couldn't comment because you've never played the game...... right? :hmmm:

[TDK1044]

Nope. No pirate copy. I'm happily playing Silent Hunter IV 1.5. From what I've seen and heard, I have no desire to play Silent Hunter V at this time.

The modders can't fix everything that needs fixing with 5...it needs at least one more patch.

[aergistal]

Wasn't there a rule for this kind of talk? Or it doesn't count after one thousand posts?

[Sailor Steve]

There's no way a true Subsim fan could resist playing SH5 for this length of time.
Since by all accounts SH5 is not yet a true subsim... :sunny:

[Fincuan]

Since by all accounts SH5 is not yet a true subsim... :sunny:

Touché... :D

Sadly it's not entirely a joke either.

[HKLE]

No change here. Without additional patches and DRM removal, I'll follow with interest but won't purchase. :)

Same here - just slowly losing interest (no DRM removal in sight)

[thyro]

I'm having fun playing and modelling for Railworks...

btw what is that SH5? :haha:

[TDK1044]

I'm having fun playing and modelling for Railworks...

btw what is that SH5? :haha:


It's a game where the sub behaves much like the one in your sig! :DL

[Reece]

It's a game where the sub behaves much like the one in your sig! :DLLike a fish on dry land!:yep:

[soldat32]

Its not for me until I see full crew management like SH3,full host of uboats and full war (39-45),no online DRM crap.Not going to hold my breath though.I feel I am not missing anything.Graphics are not at the top of my priority list.Immersion and playability is.

[TarJak]

There's no way a true Subsim fan could resist playing SH5 for this length of time. Have got hold of a pirate copy TDK1044?

I agree that the game needs another Patch, but that day is never gonna come. My hope is that the modding Community work their magic, they've already done so much. Of course you couldn't comment because you've never played the game...... right? :hmmm:
Never played it myself but I can resist easily. The litany of problems starting with the DRM and especially the borked campaign, lack of units, AI problems reported here have been well and truly enough to keep me from even considering playing it even if I had a copy of any ilk. A free pile of turds is still a pile of turds, polished or otherwise.

Since by all accounts SH5 is not yet a true subsim... :sunny:Well played sir.:salute:

Touché... :D

Sadly it's not entirely a joke either.
There lies the rub. Ubisoft badly missed the mark with this release and unfortunately the community is now sadly suffering the demise of the genre.

[Commie]

Still ignoring SH5. Haven't followed what was going on for months. I hate to appear smug, but it's hardly a surprise to see it having been abandoned by UBI just as the doubters said it would be. I remember them taking a lot of flak from the UBI/DRM lovers for their heresy back in the day, yet it seems that they are the ones with egg on their faces now.

[John Channing]

Or perhaps they are just busy trying to make things better instead of patting themselves on the back for doing nothing?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172155

JCC

[Moeceefus]

Since by all accounts SH5 is not yet a true subsim... :sunny:


By what accounts is it not a true subsim?

[TheDarkWraith]

Never played it myself but I can resist easily. The litany of problems starting with the DRM and especially the borked campaign, lack of units, AI problems reported here have been well and truly enough to keep me from even considering playing it even if I had a copy of any ilk.

I'd like you to try my AI mod (IRAI) that is in the works currently. I bet you'll find a very marked improvement in the AI behavior. It's no longer attack convoys without consequences - you better watch how you attack convoys and better plan the attack. No longer can you high TC without consequences either - airplanes will take you out.
Yeah the game has problems but it's slowly coming around :DL

[thyro]

It's a game where the sub behaves much like the one in your sig! :DL


Indeed m8

what goes around comes around! :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm reporting that sig because it makes me dizzy. :O:

[Jimbuna]

I'd like you to try my AI mod (IRAI) that is in the works currently. I bet you'll find a very marked improvement in the AI behavior. It's no longer attack convoys without consequences - you better watch how you attack convoys and better plan the attack. No longer can you high TC without consequences either - airplanes will take you out.
Yeah the game has problems but it's slowly coming around :DL


Could prove difficult....I don't believe he ever purchased it :hmmm:

[Piggy]

Im playing it, had shelved it since release as it was clear MODs were needed, as well as patches.

Im currently using TDW's UI mod, AI Mod and a few other minor mods and Im finding it a lot better. Still has a way to go but there's promise.

Thanks TDW! :up:

I went back to SH3 GWX a few months ago but even when I was able to get it to run in widecreen on Win7 I just couldnt get the lovely SH5 graphics out of my head. So despite it being way better gameplay wise, SH5's graphics are so superior Im willing to lose some things.

[Sailor Steve]

By what accounts is it not a true subsim?
First, keep in mind that my post was a direct response to The General's comment that
There's no way a true Subsim fan could resist playing SH5 for this length of time.
That seems to attack anyone who hasn't bought the game as not being a "true subsim fan". I've played subsims since I bought Silent Service in 1987. We're talking about sub SIMS, not sub games, and I'd stake myself as more of a true fan than anyone who praises this game as it is now.

So, to your question.

When I say "By most accounts" I'm referring to the overwhelming number of complaints concerning what makes a game into a sim, and those complaints are legion.

Please note that I said "yet". I have high hopes for SH5, and I've heard many good things along with the bad, but the reports overwhelmingly indicate that while it's becoming better every day, it is currently still much more 'game' than 'sim'.

[TarJak]

I'd like you to try my AI mod (IRAI) that is in the works currently. I bet you'll find a very marked improvement in the AI behavior. It's no longer attack convoys without consequences - you better watch how you attack convoys and better plan the attack. No longer can you high TC without consequences either - airplanes will take you out.
Yeah the game has problems but it's slowly coming around :DLI'm sure your mod is a great step forward but I'm not sure how I can try that mod as I do not own the game. The point being I don't want to spend AU$45 on a drink coaster. I would like to buy it but there are things like the DRM, and the quality of the end product which stop me shelling out my hard earned.

[Hanomag]

W e W T!! :woot:

Im still holding out.. :hmmm: hmm I guess thats good and bad..

oh well.... :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

Hi Mike! It's been awhile. :sunny:

[Zedi]

...it is currently still much more 'game' than 'sim'.

That was my feeling about SH3. Teleport to stations, UI full with huge ugly dials, lock on target, shot, refit. Never felt the sim part so strong as it is in SH5 with this full 3D environment. The sim part here is lacking in the manual TDC and the retard AI, but that already fixed by mods. Personally I play only with ERM and IRAI mods with excelent results and I have only the external camera enabled for the visual candies in the realism options.

And do not forget, SH5 is still in his vanilla state with only 1 patch released and no super mods &stuff. There is no reason not to buy it, except still having an ancient rig and no stable net connection.

[THE_MASK]

With all the mods now the AI feels more real than any other game . The graphics are awesome . I have patrol areas given to me within the current patrol that is part of a mission/s that are part of a campaign . I have a fully modelled submarine i can walk around in . The crew feels alive and i am part of a team . The game teaches about the uboat war by teaching you as you play . I just completed a convoy attack and it felt like the most realistic pc game experience . cheers .

[SteelViking]

I agree with both Magnum and Sober, SH5 is a better sub simulator out of the box than SHIII or SHIV were out of the box. Also, the mods out for SH5 really address most of the problems that people have with it, and more work is being done every day to make it even better. Plus, here we have a group of our subsiming comrades pouring their hearts and souls into making SH5 a better game/sim, and people are still saying that they won't spend 20$ simply because they feel the game is not "complete" or "up to par", that's a shame.

However, to anyone who refuses to buy the game because of the DRM, I completely understand that, I disagree with it as well. I also understand why anyone without a top of the line computer would not buy it either since SH5 is so resource intensive.

[Jimbuna]

W e W T!! :woot:

Im still holding out.. :hmmm: hmm I guess thats good and bad..

oh well.... :nope:

Hi Muke....you not sick of that hat yet? :hmmm:

I keep checking the post :DL

[Sailor Steve]

That was my feeling about SH3. Teleport to stations, UI full with huge ugly dials, lock on target, shot, refit. Never felt the sim part so strong as it is in SH5 with this full 3D environment.
What makes a simulation is the feeling that you're there. In that you have good points.*

A simulator, on the other hand, represents the procedures involved in actually running the equipment and conducting operations. SH3 represents that quite nicely, and lets you run any major u-boat type during any phase of the war, and in any theater u-boats operated in. When SH5 gets to that point (and I'm confiident, or at least hopeful that it will) it will cease to be "just a game".


*Yes, walking to stations is a definite improvement. I am of course biased by the fact that I've been playing these things for twenty-five years or so and in all that time we've never had anything like walking, so it's something you learn to ignore. That said, I think the better way would be to hot-key the station and have it walk you there automatically. That way you could click 'Dive' from anywhere on deck and have it take you to the conning tower in real time, which is much better than having it tell you you can't dive because you're still on deck.

The "huge hugly dials" just happen to look like the real ones. I use a mod that removes the entire UI from the screen and turns it into a set of slide-outs. For me it's the perfect compromise.

"Lock on target" represents the fact that the captain can keep both hands on the periscope handles and the target centered in the reticle. How is that not realistic?

And do not forget, SH5 is still in his vanilla state with only 1 patch released and no super mods &stuff. There is no reason not to buy it, except still having an ancient rig and no stable net connection.
The DRM scheme is tyrannical at best. The fact that anyone without a stable connection is locked out affects me, even though I have a good connection now. But even if that is lifted, and I buy it right away, I will still have to keep playing SH3 and SH4 if I want to maintain my habit of running simultaneous careers out of all available flotillas and in all types of boats. So when SH5 lets me do that it will become my sole subsim.

Comparisons of immersion and simulation factors are of course subjective. My original post was solely in response to the intimation that if I didn't buy SH5 I was not "a true sub simmer".

[Zedi]

I'm not going into a sh3 vs sh5 debate, it's already boring. For me sh3 is history, period. What I wanna say is that the perfect subsim should have no UI at all, only voice command and a full 3D environment. Then just look into scope and give the crew your commands. Like a real captain did. Also, it should have a living crew with whom we can talk or even shot them if they disobey orders :P But I stop here now only because this will never happen under Ubi logo, so is pointless to talk about.

PS: I fail to understand whats the problem with the dive command. How the heck the sub suppose to dive when the captain is still on the deck?! Use the ladder, go safe then order dive... dunno why is this hard, why some people have such a hard time to use that simple ladder. For me to dive takes 2 seconds, jump into the hole, press F, done.

[Subnuts]

PS: I fail to understand whats the problem with the dive command. How the heck the sub suppose to dive when the captain is still on the deck?!

Well, there is a voice pipe on the bridge. Alternately, I could just scream ALLLAARRRMMM!!! down the open hatch - says so much with so little.

[voss]

Well, there is a voice pipe on the bridge. Alternately, I could just scream ALLLAARRRMMM!!! down the open hatch - says so much with so little.
Intriguing!

It might have been interesting if the devs had allowed the captain to screw up. Say, by ordering a dive, watching as the watch crew fly down the ladder, navigate down the ladder into the conning tower, and, then, forgetting to close the hatch and watching the water pour in! :O:

Oh well...

[Zedi]

Well, there is a voice pipe on the bridge. Alternately, I could just scream ALLLAARRRMMM!!! down the open hatch - says so much with so little.

And? Expect the sub to dive and leave the captain out? Should work for a Benny Hill sketch, not for a subsim.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm not going into a sh3 vs sh5 debate,
And yet when I criticized SH5 you started the debate yourself. All I did was defend myself against an intimation that I and those who haven't bought the game aren't "true sub simmers". You still haven't answered that.

PS: I fail to understand whats the problem with the dive command. How the heck the sub suppose to dive when the captain is still on the deck?! Use the ladder, go safe then order dive... dunno why is this hard, why some people have such a hard time to use that simple ladder. For me to dive takes 2 seconds, jump into the hole, press F, done.
Simple. The senior officer on the bridge gives the dive command. The crew scrambles down the hatch. THEN the senior officer goes through himself and dogs the hatch behind him. That's the way it's done. It's hard to hear you claim SH5 is the superior simulation and then defend one of the things it gets wrong.

[Moeceefus]

What makes a simulation is the feeling that you're there. In that you have good points.*

A simulator, on the other hand, represents the procedures involved in actually running the equipment and conducting operations. SH3 represents that quite nicely, and lets you run any major u-boat type during any phase of the war, and in any theater u-boats operated in. When SH5 gets to that point (and I'm confiident, or at least hopeful that it will) it will cease to be "just a game".





Aside from running any major u-boat, SH5 is already at that point. I appreciate peoples stance on the drm, but SH5 is indeed a sub sim. The gameplay between 3, 4, and 5 is almost identical aside from a few things. Not owning it doesn't make anyone not a true sub sim fan, but a lot of misconceptions seem to be spread by those who haven't played it. Eventually I'm sure the drm will be dropped and a lot of folks will be able to see SH5 for what it is, a sub sim. It has issues that need to be fixed just the same as the rest of them. I think the drm alone has been the reason of many inaccurate claims about SH5 and I like you guys, cant wait until it is dropped.

[SteelViking]

Aside from running any major u-boat, SH5 is already at that point. I appreciate peoples stance on the drm, but SH5 is indeed a sub sim. The gameplay between 3, 4, and 5 is almost identical aside from a few things. Not owning it doesn't make anyone not a true sub sim fan, but a lot of misconceptions seem to be spread by those who haven't played it. Eventually I'm sure the drm will be dropped and a lot of folks will be able to see SH5 for what it is, a sub sim. It has issues that need to be fixed just the same as the rest of them. I think the drm alone has been the reason of many inaccurate claims about SH5 and I like you guys, cant wait until it is dropped.

I agree with you here on all accounts, well said.:up:

[Kapitanleutnant]

And? Expect the sub to dive and leave the captain out? Should work for a Benny Hill sketch, not for a subsim.
It would have been simplicity itself to create a command that, once the dive key was pressed, forced the player viewpoint down the hatch and into the interior of the boat - just as happens in SH3, but with a smooth camera movement, rather than an abrupt jump.
This would have looked good and been an immersive experience for the player.
Naturally the SH5 devs chose not to do this, and instead chose the most idiotic and unimmersive route of forcing you to go inside and then press the dive key.

[Nisgeis]

The "huge hugly dials" just happen to look like the real ones.

I know that's a typo of ugly, but I like the idea of having "huge huggly dials".

[SteelViking]

It would have been simplicity itself to create a command that, once the dive key was pressed, forced the player viewpoint down the hatch and into the interior of the boat - just as happens in SH3, but with a smooth camera movement, rather than an abrupt jump.
This would have looked good and been an immersive experience for the player.
Naturally the SH5 devs chose not to do this, and instead chose the most idiotic and unimmersive route of forcing you to go inside and then press the dive key.

If I had my choice, this is exactly how I would have the dive command work if you were outside the sub.

I know that's a typo of ugly, but I like the idea of having "huge huggly dials".

:haha: Do you think we could have cuddly gauges also?:haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I know that's a typo of ugly, but I like the idea of having "huge huggly dials".
I didn't even notice that! :damn::rotfl2:

[Sailor Steve]

Aside from running any major u-boat, SH5 is already at that point.
I disagree. Does adding tonnage requirements and offering different branching campaign options make it more realistic? Talking to the crew may make for a better role-playing game, but does the ability to have the same trivial conversation over and over add to the simulation? Does boosting morale by having the cook prepare a 'special meal' increase the immersion? I would argue that none of the above were necessary to a proper simulator, nor even desirable.

To my mind the perfect simulator would have been AOTD's AI and gameplay, SH1's campaign structure and SH5's graphics.

[Moeceefus]

I disagree. Does adding tonnage requirements and offering different branching campaign options make it more realistic? Talking to the crew may make for a better role-playing game, but does the ability to have the same trivial conversation over and over add to the simulation? Does boosting morale by having the cook prepare a 'special meal' increase the immersion? I would argue that none of the above were necessary to a proper simulator, nor even desirable.

To my mind the perfect simulator would have been AOTD's AI and gameplay, SH1's campaign structure and SH5's graphics.



True, these things are not necessary for simulation. At the same time they do not take away from the simulation they were built around.

[Sailor Steve]

True, these things are not necessary for simulation. At the same time they do not take away from the simulation they were built around.
A good point. And while old problems aren't fixed and the new ideas are incomplete, it doesn't mean that it has to stay that way.

And I'm one of the ones who is definitely looking forward to playing it, or at least working on it once the DRM is lifted. Again, my whole responce was originally to that one statement, and I do support SH5. Of course if I had it right now I'd almost certainly still be playing the older ones, just as I still play SH3 because even though SH4 is basically better it's still lacking all the modding efforts that SH3 recieved.

[John Channing]

I disagree. Does adding tonnage requirements and offering different branching campaign options make it more realistic? Talking to the crew may make for a better role-playing game, but does the ability to have the same trivial conversation over and over add to the simulation? Does boosting morale by having the cook prepare a 'special meal' increase the immersion? I would argue that none of the above were necessary to a proper simulator, nor even desirable.

To my mind the perfect simulator would have been AOTD's AI and gameplay, SH1's campaign structure and SH5's graphics.

But this is where we get into trouble for people who don't have or are not currently playing the game.

There are two mods that fix this morale/crew thing completely. One removed the necessity to have those inane conversations (unless you want to) and the second allows you to be (for instance) on the Bridge with your Watchcrew and issue orders to the rest of the boat through your Watch Officer. I can turn to him and request a Weather report and he gets it for me. I can ask him to change course and he gets it done for me. I can also interact with a number of different officers throughout the boat, issue them orders, and they get it done. No more does the captain push a button and something happens. Now the Captain issues the order and it happens.

That, not being a Navy type, seems to me to be a prety accurate simulation of Captain/Crew interaction.

But someone who doesn't have the game (or refuses to use Mods on principle :88)) would not know that and could continue to obsess on the "Soup" conversation.

As to requirements for tonnage of course BDU had tonnage requirements and mission objectives for their Captains. At the start of the war Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage they had to sink to bring Britain to it's knees. Given that, I am certain that he did not give his captains the freedom to just go where they wanted and do whatever they wanted. They were sent to specific areas and given specific objectives. The ones who were successful were give the important assignments later. The reason Reinhard Hardegen was sent to America was that he had proven that he could accomplish difficult tasks. The reason Prein was sent to Scapa Flow was that Doenitz had confidence in his ability to succeed because he had accomplished his objectives in the past. This is modeled perfectly in the game. Do well and you get sent to the US Eastern Seaboard. Don't do well and you get less important missions.

As to requirements to sink certain ships one has to only look at the real life Norway campaign as an example. The captains sent there were instructed to expend their efforts on Naval vessels and, if that meant ignoring merchants, so be it. This exact scenario is represented in SH5, and has met with a lot of derision from some people here, but it is historically accurate.

Now before one of the usual suspects pops up with a list of the game's shortcomings, I am talking about what the game is, not what it could have been or should have been. That conversation would be different for every member of this forum. But what it is, and is becoming, is a pretty good simulation of a U-Boat experience. What the others have been is at most Attack Simulators. This is the first attempt to create a U-Boat Captain simulator. Does it fall short in a lot of area's? Hell yes. Is it a noble attempt that is being made better and better every day? Same answer.

But to know that, you have to be playing. Otherwise people can fall into the trap of regurgitating the same old points over and over an over, a lot of which are no longer relevant.

Or not.

JCC

[voss]

But this is where we get into trouble for people who don't have or are not currently playing the game.

There are two mods that fix this morale/crew thing completely. One removed the necessity to have those inane conversations (unless you want to) and the second allows you to be (for instance) on the Bridge with your Watchcrew and issue orders to the rest of the boat through your Watch Officer. I can turn to him and request a Weather report and he gets it for me. I can ask him to change course and he gets it done for me. I can also interact with a number of different officers throughout the boat, issue them orders, and they get it done. No more does the captain push a button and something happens. Now the Captain issues the order and it happens.

That, not being a Navy type, seems to me to be a prety accurate simulation of Captain/Crew interaction.

But someone who doesn't have the game (or refuses to use Mods on principle :88)) would not know that and could continue to obsess on the "Soup" conversation.

As to requirements for tonnage of course BDU had tonnage requirements and mission objectives for their Captains. At the start of the war Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage they had to sink to bring Britain to it's knees. Given that, I am certain that he did not give his captains the freedom to just go where they wanted and do whatever they wanted. They were sent to specific areas and given specific objectives. The ones who were successful were give the important assignments later. The reason Reinhard Hardegen was sent to America was that he had proven that he could accomplish difficult tasks. The reason Prein was sent to Scapa Flow was that Doenitz had confidence in his ability to succeed because he had accomplished his objectives in the past. This is modeled perfectly in the game. Do well and you get sent to the US Eastern Seaboard. Don't do well and you get less important missions.

As to requirements to sink certain ships one has to only look at the real life Norway campaign as an example. The captains sent there were instructed to expend their efforts on Naval vessels and, if that meant ignoring merchants, so be it. This exact scenario is represented in SH5, and has met with a lot of derision from some people here, but it is historically accurate.

Now before one of the usual suspects pops up with a list of the game's shortcomings, I am talking about what the game is, not what it could have been or should have been. That conversation would be different for every member of this forum. But what it is, and is becoming, is a pretty good simulation of a U-Boat experience. What the others have been is at most Attack Simulators. This is the first attempt to create a U-Boat Captain simulator. Does it fall short in a lot of area's? Hell yes. Is it a noble attempt that is being made better and better every day? Same answer.

But to know that, you have to be playing. Otherwise people can fall into the trap of regurgitating the same old points over and over an over, a lot of which are no longer relevant.

Or not.

JCC
Very nicely put, John! :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

But this is where we get into trouble for people who don't have or are not currently playing the game.

But to know that, you have to be playing. Otherwise people can fall into the trap of regurgitating the same old points over and over an over, a lot of which are no longer relevant.
I understand, and, believe it or not, I agree. Don't forget that I also said
Please note that I said "yet". I have high hopes for SH5, and I've heard many good things along with the bad
And that my original comment was in response to an implication that I and others like me are not "true sub simmers". I was on the defensive from the beginning, and I did not start this argument.

[Nisgeis]

And that my original comment was in response to an implication that I and others like me are not "true sub simmers".

I dislike that sort of labelling. I've seen people say that true subsimmers wouldn't play SH5 and I've seen people say that true subsimmers would play SH5. All it is, is another stick to hit people who disagree with your point of view with. How about... True subsimmers from now on will try not to label other people as not true subsimmers because of their beliefs :DL.

[sergei]

How about... True subsimmers from now on will try not to label other people as not true subsimmers because of their beliefs :DL.

Seconded :yep:

[krashkart]

I dislike that sort of labelling. I've seen people say that true subsimmers wouldn't play SH5 and I've seen people say that true subsimmers would play SH5. All it is, is another stick to hit people who disagree with your point of view with. How about... True subsimmers from now on will try not to label other people as not true subsimmers because of their beliefs :DL.

True subsimmers eat sub sandwiches while simultaneously playing a sub sim and posting at Subsim. While riding the subway. :know:

[Nisgeis]

True subsimmers eat sub sandwiches while simultaneously playing a sub sim and posting at Subsim. While riding the subway. :know:

That's a sub standard statement, if ever I heard one. No wait, I mean... er...

[krashkart]

That's a sub standard statement, if ever I heard one. No wait, I mean... er...

Your statement is not without merit, though it is lacking a twisty sub plot. :D

[Nisgeis]

Your statement is not without merit, though it is lacking a twisty sub plot. :D

That's subjective.

[Méo]

lol :rotfl2:

[SteelViking]

:rotfl2: The comic relief in this thread is pretty SUBstantial:rotfl2:

[Madox58]

Your all giveing me a subdural hematoma!
My head hurts.
:nope:

[SteelViking]

Your all giveing me a subdural hematoma!
My head hurts.
:nope:

Mine too, we might want to change the subject......Oh wait:damn:

[John Channing]

Perhaps this entire conversation should be subrosa?

JCC



Oh.. and Steve, I wasn't singling you out or anythin'. But I suspect you knew that. Besides... you talk funny.

[longam]

I'm starting to get those subterranean homesick blues.

[Madox58]

Perhaps this entire conversation should be subrosa?

JCC



Oh.. and Steve, I wasn't singling you out or anythin'. But I suspect you knew that. Besides... you talk funny.

I think Steve was a substitue for Woody Allen in some films?
:hmmm:

[John Channing]

Perhaps in some of his sub-par movies?

JCC

[Madox58]

Granted it's subjective on my part to assume this.
:hmmm:
But I did see Steve face to face in Houston.
:haha:

[Nisgeis]

:rotfl2: The comic relief in this thread is pretty SUBstantial:rotfl2:

Nice capitalisation there, but can you do a subliminal one?

[SteelViking]

Nice capitalisation there, but can you do a subliminal one?

Sorry, I am no good at working with people's subconscious.

[Harmsway!]

Back to the subject on how the hold outs are holding up. I'm still holding out but feel my knees getting weak. I now see SH5 at $19 + $4 shipping. If the total gets below $20 I'm going to fold.

In the meanwhile I'm setting aside funds for that new gaming machine.

[Sailor Steve]

Granted it's subjective on my part to assume this.
:hmmm:
But I did see Steve face to face in Houston.
:haha:
I wasn't really there.

That was my subaltern.

[Sailor Steve]

Besides... you talk funny.
Wuffo you gots to say a thing like that? Mesa no talk funny. Yousa talk funny.

[FIREWALL]

I personally think threads like this open up old wounds and only lead to flame wars.

When then people who held out buy it, they'll post.

I think the constant reminder threads are the real pain in the arse.

[robbo180265]

I personally think threads like this open up old wounds and only lead to flame wars.

When then people who held out buy it, they'll post.

I think the constant reminder threads are the real pain in the arse.


Yeah there does seem to be a SUBplot running through some of these threads...

[Sailor Steve]

Maybe Neal could assign a sub-lieutenant to remove them.

[Jimbuna]

Maybe Neal could assign a sub-lieutenant to remove them.

Was that a SUBtle hint?

[Nisgeis]

Yeah there does seem to be a SUBplot running through some of these threads...

I can't subscribe to that. I think it's more of a subtle subvervise subtext running through the subjects in the subforums here.

[SteelViking]

I can't subscribe to that. I think it's more of a subtle subvervise subtext running through the subjects in the subforums here.

Yeah, it does seem like something subversive is going on.

[Moeceefus]

Yeah, it does seem like something subversive is going on.


It is easy to substantiate this claim.

[FIREWALL]

It's all pure subterfuge.

[John Channing]

I believe that to be substantially correct.

JCC

[Sailor Steve]

I submit that it is unsubstantiated.

[SteelViking]

I submit that it is unsubstantiated.

You were a little slow on that response, definitely subsonic if you ask me......Ok, that one is a bit of a stretch lol.

[Nisgeis]

Definately a suboptimal response time.

[SteelViking]

Definately a suboptimal response time.

Yeah, we can only hope that your subsequent posts will be faster.

[Jimbuna]

Yeah, we can only hope that your subsequent posts will be faster.

...and less submissive.

[longam]

...and less submissive.

and include more subqueries

[Nisgeis]

...and less submissive.

Just say no to subservience!

[SteelViking]

Just say no to subservience!

Subservience? The only thing I am worried about is subjugation!

[Harmsway!]

Hmmm this thread has been hijacked with a subtopic.

[Moeceefus]

Hmmm this thread has been hijacked with a subtopic.


and has since become sublime.

[SteelViking]

and has since become sublime.

Aye, I think this subtopic may need to be subtracted from this forum subdivision aka-thread.

[Jimbuna]

Time to discuss....SUBmarines.

[Madox58]

Sub-Marines usually get kicked out of the Corps.
:haha:

[krashkart]

Sub-Marines usually get kicked out of the Corps.
:haha:

'Cuz they're sub-jar... :har:

[lostsm]

oh boy, the joys and rewards of reading a 34 page thread at subsim

[Madox58]

That's some substantial reading!

[Zygote]

Edit: Apparently my post was a breach of the rules. I don't see why that is so since paying for the game and removing the drm is obviously not piracy.

Piracy is more like selling SH5 for 100 aus dollars pretending its a finished game and then adding a DRM to it for the final kick in the guts.

[Madox58]

Let me tell you a story about crack.

Long ago cigarettes thrown down on the ground were call 'Dead Smokes'.
Until a couple Guys were driveing through Missouri on the way to California.

At a stop light they were face to face with a 'Moon'
presented by some local raffle roussers.

As the Driver of the passers by was nearly finished with his cigarette?
He flicked it at the 'Moon'.

It landed squarely in the Crack of the 'Moon'!

Needless to say,
We now call dead cigarettes 'Butts',
and that lead to Crack!
:har:

We don't do Crack.