View Full Version : How's the hold out crowd holding up?
I count myself in the group, holding out until the DRM issue is deleted. BUT curiosity is attacking this cat. I come here and read the posts daily hoping for a big announcement that's it's safe to get back into the SH waters. This might be a mistake since I've been itching to see what the flashing lights and pretty pictures look like. I am interested in this game so it's not like I wouldn't like to buy it, as a consequence my principles are warring with my curiosity lately. I even went as far as calling my local Gamestop to see if they have any copies. They have 1. I'm loosing my grip, need to be refreshed to continue the course. But only one copy in this area, must... resist. DRM Bones, DRM!!!
So how many have fallen so far? I'm at the edge, need to step away from the precipise. Only thing to see is the red of frustration, of this I'm aware. Frustration abounds if I go over.
For those tired of us wannabe SH5 skippers whinning that we're not, back out of this post and shut the door behind you. Like I said, I want to buy SH5.
I'll never buy a title with this scheme unless the benefits outweigh the negatives. That'd require actual streaming content, or some sort of "drop in" multiplayer to even consider it worth the risk of ever being prevented from using the title due to server/internet failures.
Put that in the bank.
SteamWake
03-19-10, 02:17 PM
Try askin in the SH3 / 4 sections :03:
The General
03-19-10, 02:18 PM
@Boats,
you are missing out in a big way! SH5 is getting more and more fantastic every day! DRM is never a problem. Come on in and join the fun :up:
Sailor Steve
03-19-10, 02:21 PM
I was in Best Buy the other day, and saw it on the shelf. Picked up the box, read the front and back, saw the note on the front that's quoted in my sig, put it back, shook my head and walked away laughing.
They couldn't give it to me as long as they won't let me play it anyway. No problems here.
DRM is never a problem.
I can think of some consumers subjected to Starforce who'd disagree with you. Not to mention those who run into issues with Ubisoft's current monster.
As for holding out? Doing fine. The more I think about it, the more I doubt I'll actually like SHV all that much; having to run around the sub constantly sounds like it would get awfully old awfully quickly anyway, and like others have said, I'm certainly not buying it until the always-on DRM goes away. Wouldn't be able to play it when I go overseas in a couple months here anyway.
But as a former sailor I'm really interested in the ability to inspection my boat from stem to stern. Not being able to get past certain bulkheads was OK in the past, but development has come a long way. When I drove boats as a coxswain there wasn't any compartment off limits to me, even the snipes' hideaway. So to me the whole boat would make the game all the more immersive.
But DRM:damn:.
Kapitanleutnant
03-19-10, 02:29 PM
I'm doing fine. Not bought it, and don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not playing it. I follow this forum mostly to have a chuckle at all the fallout.
Nisgeis
03-19-10, 02:30 PM
One thing I would say Boats, is that reading about the game here won't prepare you for playing the game. It's really a new sort of experience and it's a little weird to start off with, but once you get used to it, it's no different to getting used to the strangeness of previous versions. Whatever you think the game will be like when you play it, it will probably 'feel' different to what you expect.
Sailor Steve
03-19-10, 02:30 PM
But as a former sailor I'm really interested in the ability to inspection my boat from stem to stern. Not being able to get past certain bulkheads was OK in the past, but development has come a long way. When I drove boats as a coxswain there wasn't any compartment off limits to me, even the snipes' hideaway. So to me the whole boat would make the game all the more immersive.
But DRM:damn:.
I completely agree: walking around the boat looks like fun while not in combat. In combat, I as the captain should be in the control room or conning tower, or on the bridge, giving orders directly, through speaking tubes or through messengers.
The way they apparently have it set up now seems silly - assuming the reports I'm reading are accurate and not that some people are just not understanding how to work it properly.
But as a former sailor I'm really interested in the ability to inspection my boat from stem to stern. Not being able to get past certain bulkheads was OK in the past, but development has come a long way. When I drove boats as a coxswain there wasn't any compartment off limits to me, even the snipes' hideaway. So to me the whole boat would make the game all the more immersive.
But DRM:damn:.
Oh, I'm sure it's certainly more immersive. However, I'm sure it also gets quite old having to run the length of the ship to get certain things done, if that is in fact the case.
You should absolutely do what you want. If you're opposed to the DRM, stick to your guns. Ubi's hoping you don't. If you're not that opposed and want to play, then buy the game.
If you stick it out, you'll be able to wait until the price drops, there have been some patches released, and the mods have been polished to a brilliant shine. If you don't, you'll get to play it right away and have your curiosity sated. Up to you.
HundertzehnGustav
03-19-10, 02:35 PM
Hate everything i see, hear and click.
major screwup.
First mission, invasion of poland, straight to battle.
aha. how do i get up the ladder?
UGH, FPS Style, just run against it and keep bangin yer head against the tubes. It ll get you up on the deck.
fast forward... message: sink a polish trio.
instructions: point your periscope, launch the eels.
no control over the boat whatsoever...
draw course, follow it, get back to last course... took me 30 minutes to find out.
Menues activate step by step... wtf... i have to be guided like a fekkin first time player, instructions are poor to nonexistant, how to move crews around can not be done at all so far...
getting back to kiel...wanna enter da subpen... get my nose stuck in the "damage Box" of the subpen...
entering a subpen is not what you are sposed to do.
gotta click an anchor icon. aha.
*Throws a VERY large trout at those who decided to go FPS style with this*
*Throws a slightly less small trout at those who did not stop this madness*
Never. never in my entire life can you sell me such a piesse of scheisse. Eyes wide open, i am shocked.
even vanilla SHIII was more intuitive than this.
and all the rest of the complaints are true: cannot dive with crew on deck, no appearent way to move the crew (management icon is not doing anything, in order to dive, as i said before, you sit in this VII/a like a Noob, trying to figure out WHAT the hell you are supposed to do with no indications on HOW to do it?
and only Half the Keyboard controls of the SHIII boats, roughly.
Absolutely disgusted.
Fire the entire team. the e.n.t.i.r.e team
Past achievements dont guarantee future successes.
KiwiVenge
03-19-10, 02:37 PM
Would love to buy it, could maybe even manage to accept DRM if it worked flawlessly.
However, I know I would go off the deep end if I caved in and bought the game and ended up being one of the ones that had problems logging into the auth servers or had any DRM related problems.
I would be telling myself I knew better but would not even listen to myself ....
magic452
03-19-10, 02:38 PM
Was in Walmart the other day, they had two copies and they still do.
Aside from OSP there is not much I really care for in SH5.
Just don't like the way the game plays, That silly mini map???????:nope:
I'm sticking to SH4 and TMO 1.9
Magic
I completely agree: walking around the boat looks like fun while not in combat. In combat, I as the captain should be in the control room or conning tower, or on the bridge, giving orders directly, through speaking tubes or through messengers.
The way they apparently have it set up now seems silly - assuming the reports I'm reading are accurate and not that some people are just not understanding how to work it properly.
I agree, battle station for the captain should be at the con or in the control room and I would hope the interface would reflect this (the issuance of orders without a need to move too much). I read that it may not be so, but if I could mod that would be one of the first things I'd work on. All commands handily available to the skipper from those two stations.
Still not going to touch it, I am currently playing SH3 and IV fully patched and modded.
I will not support UBI's DRM and continue to vote with my wallet.
Cheers
Garion
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 02:51 PM
still on SH3/GWX...
Ditto.
It is silly.
It's a novelty that wears off in about 10 minutes. Beyond that you start to realize just how stupid the idea of a "captain simulator" really is. The main problem is that the AI and orders interface that substitute, or should substitute for "team members" in such a simulator is, respectively, incompetent and messy. It's more work and frustration getting them to do what you need done than it is to just F-key your way to the station and do it yourself. I would argue that doing it yourself is more satisfying as well.
Another example of 1st person silliness is the diving procedure.
Old way: Hit P for periscope depth and the boat begins to dive. In my mind I've hit the alarm waited for my bridge watch to clear and then jumped down the hatch dogging it behind me as the boat goes under.
New way: fish around for WASD (or mod substituted) keys - which I hate using even in real FPS games - get lined up just so on the hatch, clank clank clank your way down into the sub (leaving the watch crew up on deck!), THEN push the p key to start the diving procedure. The watch crew at some point teleports into the boat. I've seen them go under water before that happens.
Immersive? It's not doing anything for me...
JD
I really want to buy this game but just not now, as I’ve said not remotely tempted plus the other plus is my old system cant play it. So not a chance I’ll be buying it.
If I had come in here and the View was “what a fantastic finished game, this could be the best game I’ve ever played” instead of the consensus on here it is what it is a rather poorly finished game that’s depending on Mods to work it all out.
Basically the guys manning the gun under water says it all, if they missed that what else is missed and is more important to the game play……Scary.
Tempted in getting SH III plus mods back on the old rig.:oops:
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 02:56 PM
Er... wasn't it standard practice for the highest ranking person present on the bridge to be the LAST one down the hatch if a dive was ordered?
Sailor Steve
03-19-10, 02:58 PM
Old way: Hit P for periscope depth and the boat begins to dive. In my mind I've hit the alarm waited for my bridge watch to clear and then jumped down the hatch dogging it behind me as the boat goes under.
I always hit the key and then instantly right-click to the conning tower. With DBSM I hear the crew shouting orders as they race to their stations. When I hear the hatch close I right-click again to the control room, usually just in time to see them appear in their seats (DD's Open Hatch mod). I only wish the earlier games had SH5's seated helmsman as well.
In SH3 in an external view the watch disappear immediately when you hit any dive key, as they should. In SH4 they stay on the bridge until the boat actually begins to sink. How come with each game the behaviour becomes less realistic?
Still holding out and not missing much by the looks of Neal's review.
At battlestations if you wander down the stern and chat to the cook he just says "Shouldn't you be in the control room kaleun"
Iron Budokan
03-19-10, 03:05 PM
I'm doing just fine. I have zero interest in this game. I made that decision when I learned it would only go up to '43. Really, that's all it took for me to give this game a pass. And that was bad enough. What I reallly didn't like was the interview where the devs tried to pretend the rest of the war didn't count and therefore didn't need to be modeled. I simply didn't care for being talked down to like that and being treated as if I were an ignorant POS because I believed the war didn't end in '43.
I can do without that kind of high-minded intellectual revisionism from Ubi, thank you very much.
The RPG, arcade and DRM elements only justified my decision not to give this game the time of day.
I have a life. I've got two little boys in baseball and it takes up a lot of time. I can live without /5 and I've always got /3 and /4 to play.
Speaking for myself, I have no intention of buying this game under the present circumstances. Of course, I understand others have said the same thing and then gone ahead and bought the game. That's cool. They can say one thing and do another (or blame it on their girlfriends, the height of moral emasculation, lol) if they think that's what they need to do.
mr chris
03-19-10, 03:06 PM
Still holding out and not missing much by the looks of Neal's review.
Aye. Have brought the game limited edition version via the SS link. Played a bit but as you have seen from my thread at the lair i find the game far from playable.
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 03:11 PM
At battlestations if you wander down the stern and chat to the cook he just says "Shouldn't you be in the control room kaleun"
The cheeky devil! :O:
But as a former sailor I'm really interested in the ability to inspection my boat from stem to stern. Not being able to get past certain bulkheads was OK in the past, but development has come a long way. When I drove boats as a coxswain there wasn't any compartment off limits to me, even the snipes' hideaway. So to me the whole boat would make the game all the more immersive.
But DRM:damn:.
Sure, it is good for immersion, walking the length of the boat, but gameplay shouldn't suffer from it.
Officerpuppy
03-19-10, 03:26 PM
I'm here almost everyday, going through threads and looking at the modding section but i still don't own the game.:hmmm:
I count myself in the group, holding out until the DRM issue is deleted.
Dear friend you are not the only one...
To me SH5 has sank to the bottom coz they forgot to close the hatch... till then, either they die without O2 or will run out of food... but if one day they managed to use the last O2 to come back to the surfice without DRM blasts then I'll glad open my wallet.
SH3 still rocks and SH4 rocks a bit high atm
609_Avatar
03-19-10, 03:28 PM
Doing just fine here. I actually have this OSP thing to thank for me checking out my old copy of SHIII. Amazing what's been done with it and now that it will use my full 32" wide screen monitor it looks better than ever. I'm still enjoying SHIV very much (especially with OM!) and get plenty of my eye-candy fix there. I love the look of SHV and some of the "improvements", like Wolfpacks (anyone actually get it to work in game yet?) for example but many things turn me off. Having to go all over the ship, like S.S says during combat I shouldn't have to run around to convey info/orders, the morale system, some of the targeting aspects, etc. All of this is assuming that what we've read is just not people not having figured it out yet- and how lame is that? You have to figure stuff out instead of read how it works in a manual... So the bottom line for me is I'm not missing it at all. Part of me would love to check it out first hand instead of through reading other people's opinions but I will never give the false impression that I support this type of DRM by purchasing it. Once that is gone I will order immediately so I can form my own first-hand opinion.
Webster
03-19-10, 03:28 PM
IMO i am not missing out on a thing really, maybe as a modderator i read more posts then most but everything i know about how things are going tells me that even with the 50 something mods already out there for it, its still not worth having until such a time as the game has been completely rebuilt from the ground up with some major work by a super mod.
this opinion is not even considering the DRM requirement issue, it is how i feel even if the DRM was removed yesterday i would still feel its not worth buying yet.
i really do see things in the game that can have great possiblities but its nowhere near ready IMO for me to spend money on it.
im actually very greatfull the DRM issue prevented me from buying the game when it was released, IMO its really only worth $10 in the bargin bin.
theluckyone17
03-19-10, 03:33 PM
Walked past it on the shelf at Best Buy. Picked it up. Looked over the packaging. Laughed at the "Permanent Internet Connection Required" sticker. Gave mental kudos to Ubisoft for its placement and size. Put it back on the shelf, and walked away.
Until the DRM is gone, I won't be playing SH5 or any other Ubisoft product.
danurve
03-19-10, 03:39 PM
This 'hold-out' is doing great, I bought and am playing SHIV for the 1st time and find it to be a great game. Didn't think I'd like the Fleet Boats, I was wrong.
I'd like to buy SHV but flat out refuse to.
I see Ubi's OSP-DRM as a solid brick 'firewall' with my money on one side and Ubi's big nose sniffing about on the other. It 'nose' my cash is there but ain't gettin it till the bricks come down. If the bricks never come down and SHIV is the last to be on my PC? So be it.
capt-jones
03-19-10, 03:41 PM
:woot:you guys dont know wot you are missing i was one of the first too complain about starfarce chewing up cd drives and raved about the no cd patch for SH3 but it did'nt stop me buying it,where are they now(years later)in davy jones locker where they should have always been,so dont just take it lying down , life is too short go get SH5 and drive it like you stole it .a true submariner would'nt hesitate ,:salute: its only a matter of time that you will get it anyway,go and treat yourself you know you deserve it :03:
LiveGoat
03-19-10, 03:43 PM
Oh, I'm sure it's certainly more immersive. However, I'm sure it also gets quite old having to run the length of the ship to get certain things done, if that is in fact the case.
You should absolutely do what you want. If you're opposed to the DRM, stick to your guns. Ubi's hoping you don't. If you're not that opposed and want to play, then buy the game.
If you stick it out, you'll be able to wait until the price drops, there have been some patches released, and the mods have been polished to a brilliant shine. If you don't, you'll get to play it right away and have your curiosity sated. Up to you.
Church's key layout and the modified UI from Darkwraith make it so I can pretty much do Everything I did in SH3. The only time the game feels "different" to me is when I'm on the bridge and order scope/dive/crash.
KL-alfman
03-19-10, 03:53 PM
intended to buy a new machine for SH5 I could save some money for the time being thanks to UBI.
when U-p(ay but cannot p)lay is dropped I might give it a try. until then I stay with SH3+GWX and the many many new mods which were released just recently or are soon to be. :up:
Sailor Steve
03-19-10, 03:59 PM
:woot:you guys dont know wot you are missing i was one of the first too complain about starfarce chewing up cd drives and raved about the no cd patch for SH3 but it did'nt stop me buying it,where are they now(years later)in davy jones locker where they should have always been,so dont just take it lying down , life is too short go get SH5 and drive it like you stole it .a true submariner would'nt hesitate ,:salute: its only a matter of time that you will get it anyway,go and treat yourself you know you deserve it :03:
I never had any problems with StarForce. On the other hand I don't have an internet connection, so I can't play SH5 even if I wanted to. While you're here telling me how wonderful it is, can you tell people who don't have connections or travel to out-of-the-way places exactly how they can run it?
Holding out just fine.
With Neal's review not recommending anyone buy it and the forums
littered with bugs, downed servers, missing features and all manner of
problems, sticking to ones principles isn't difficult at all!
The Enigma
03-19-10, 04:13 PM
I count myself in the group, holding out until the DRM issue is deleted. BUT curiosity is attacking this cat. I come here and read the posts daily hoping for a big announcement that's it's safe to get back into the SH waters. This might be a mistake since I've been itching to see what the flashing lights and pretty pictures look like. I am interested in this game so it's not like I wouldn't like to buy it, as a consequence my principles are warring with my curiosity lately. I even went as far as calling my local Gamestop to see if they have any copies. They have 1. I'm loosing my grip, need to be refreshed to continue the course. But only one copy in this area, must... resist. DRM Bones, DRM!!!
So how many have fallen so far? I'm at the edge, need to step away from the precipise. Only thing to see is the red of frustration, of this I'm aware. Frustration abounds if I go over.
For those tired of us wannabe SH5 skippers whining that we're not, back out of this post and shut the door behind you. Like I said, I want to buy SH5.
Well, I'm still holding out with no problem.
I'm not sure if I will ever gonna buy the game.
After reading Neal's review I don't think SH5 is my kinda game.
Chatting to my crew to get things done is not something what I have in mind
when playing a subsim simulation game.
Perhaps when the game is to be found in the bargain bin, I'll buy it as a
collectors item.
UnSalted
03-19-10, 04:14 PM
Haven't bought it, haven't been tempted to buy it ,and may never buy it since I honestly don't believe that paying a company for a flawed product is in anyone's best interest.
I'll wait and hope that another developer will look at the market for a good subsim and realize that Ubisoft's fubar is another company's open door.
Well, don't let it be said there's NO value here at all!
I was just going through the diving routine I described above... with me secure in the control room and my watch crew nowhere to be seen. So I hit F2 to look around outside and there they are on the bridge, just as expected, with the water swirling around their waists as the sub goes under. Only this time I had to stop and laugh out loud.
There above the Watch Officer's head, just as he disappears beneath the waves, is a [...] symbol indicating he has something to say. I tried to click on it, half expecting it to say something like WTF!!!!, but he teleported out before I could get my mouse cursor over there.
I wish I was able to get a screen shot of that...
JD
Hanomag
03-19-10, 04:29 PM
I completely agree: walking around the boat looks like fun while not in combat. In combat, I as the captain should be in the control room or conning tower, or on the bridge, giving orders directly, through speaking tubes or through messengers.
The way they apparently have it set up now seems silly - assuming the reports I'm reading are accurate and not that some people are just not understanding how to work it properly.
I AM WIT CHOO...!!! :arrgh!:
Overall I am not impressed with what I have read so far... :nope:
The Enigma
03-19-10, 04:29 PM
Well, don't let it be said there's NO value here at all!
I was just going through the diving routine I described above... with me secure in the control room and my watch crew nowhere to be seen. So I hit F2 to look around outside and there they are on the bridge, just as expected, with the water swirling around their waists as the sub goes under. Only this time I had to stop and laugh out loud.
There above the Watch Officer's head, just as he disappears beneath the waves, is a [...] symbol indicating he has something to say. I tried to click on it, half expecting it to say something like WTF!!!!, but he teleported out before I could get my mouse cursor over there.
I wish I was able to get a screen shot of that...
JD
:haha::har:
fireship4
03-19-10, 04:34 PM
Holding out just fine - though it has been a shame.
I did wonder recently whether I would have cared about this issue/thought it was wrong/noticed it if not for being a member here. Not only because it brought it to my attention - maybe I have just been swept into a mob fevour, fighting for freedom and values?
Hmm, a philosophical/psychologic question for me - again.
Nah I'll have a cigarette, play arma2, watch more DS9 and go to bed.
robbo180265
03-19-10, 04:38 PM
I say good on the lot of you for making a stand:up:
I caved in and bought the game, I got it cheap at Amazon uk £22 - I thought it worth the risk.
Downside - yes there are bugs , you've all read about them. Obviously the DRM. The first weekend outage didn't affect me much. The second outage did, can't tell you how frustrating it was to not be able to play the "new" game.
Upside - Tonight, in a massive storm in the atlantic (thunder, lightning , stormy seas) I ran into a convoy protected by only 1 dd. Sat myself infront , at periscope depth and waited for them to come to me. The dd went past me at about 1000 meters, could only see him now and again - the waves were so big.
First freighter we've been tracking looms out of the storm, I let him have an eel (set to slow) whilst its travelling I line up on the next and loose another. It's happy times so I'm feeling brave , I keep the scope up and watch as the first hits - pretty fireworks , he must have been carrying arms. He's a goner, slowly sinks as I watch
The second eel misses the target so I re-line up , recalculate and let the eel go. 30 seconds later it hits and the ship snks, check behind - the dd is homing in on me , I check depth under keel and dive to 50 meters, speed set to 3. As i reach 45 meters I hear the second torp hit, lucky shot , can't hear her sinking but she must be crippled.
I cut engines and let the "sound guy" do his job. The dd sails overhead and starts searching my old position, I've cut to 2 knots now and am sinking. I know I have an extra 50 meters or so before I have to worry and the dd seems to be searching the wrong area at least 2k away
I chance my luck , set speed to 3 and bring the sub up to periscope depth, look behind me and sure enough the dd is searching the wrong area (about 2k away) but better still , there's a freighter right in my sights. Again I lose an eel and 20 seconds or so later it hits, she goes down too - three sinkings and a possible cripple. This time I go all the way down and slowly move in the direction of the convoy. "Sound guy" reports the dd searching and then about 10 mins later moving away. I follow him till we loose him, wait an hour then bring the boat up.
We then head in the direction of the convoy (obviously we plotted their direction whilst we were down below) at Flank (extreme) speed. At this point I go below as there is a broadcast I want to hear on the radio(radio Germany mod).
30 mins or so later we see the crippled tanker. By now one of the bugs has kicked in (or its lag from the server, or lag from my machine) either way I can't lock the target. We get in pretty close (the weather is really awful) he's not zigzagging and he's only capable of about 2 knots or so. I target by eye (and luck) set to fast and let him have it - the feeling as it hit and he sank I really can't describe.
We then dived to 50 meters and I saved (yes you can do that) and left the game.
Notice I wasn't running from crew member to crew member, most of what I did , I did from the conning tower. I seriously believe that this game MAY go far
Honestly - it's not SHIII GWX , but by crikey I love it.
danurve
03-19-10, 04:44 PM
:woot:you guys dont know wot you are missing i was one of the first too complain about starfarce chewing up cd drives and raved about the no cd patch for SH3 but it did'nt stop me buying it,where are they now(years later)in davy jones locker where they should have always been,so dont just take it lying down , life is too short go get SH5 and drive it like you stole it .a true submariner would'nt hesitate ,:salute: its only a matter of time that you will get it anyway,go and treat yourself you know you deserve it :03:
Your so mistaken it's funny.
I know exacly what I'm missing, one just has to brouse these forums.
I do hope your right about one thing though, being a matter of time.
But that depends on Ubi, not me or your opinion.
Nordmann
03-19-10, 04:55 PM
I'm still holding out, not too difficult really, plenty of other games to keep me occupied. There's no point spending good money on something which is going to be a pain in the backside most of the time (the server outages are but one example).
The posters claiming that they have experienced no DRM related problems are the lucky few, that or they are mindlessly defending the game despite not being able to play it, it's hard to tell these days. Some of the posts on here are straight out of an advertisement for the game, honestly, these people should be put on Ubi's PR payroll!
CaptainHaplo
03-19-10, 04:57 PM
I guess I am a bit of a mixed bag......
I don't own the game. I won't buy it due to the DRM. Once that is gone - I will buy it. The funny thing is - I have played it. Not illegally - but a friend bought it and I have tried a bit of modding on his pc at his request. In doing so, I have also gotten a little play time in.
Let me say this - the game has ALOT of potential. But its currently unrealized. The FPS side of things don't bother me. Yes, I wish it was optional so that a player could CHOOSE to walk about or just jump around (or hit a hotkey and let the pc do the work of moving you to whatever station at a run or walk). The biggest gripes I have with the gameplay is the gui, targetting and bugs.
Let me give you an example of one issue I have. Lets say I use just basic autotargetting. It gives me the 1/2/3 and shows the same for the ship. These adjust based on the speed setting of the torp. Sounds good.... but what if I am firing a long range shot? The numbers don't correspond to any adjustable range - so if your shooting long, you are guessing once you get past the #3. It would be better to say give me a run of 1:30 and show me where the target and torp are.... then adjust your run time to where the numbers are at usable lengths (with the understanding that longer ranges introduce longer discrepencies) and then use that to fire. I mean - this is AUTO shot.... But its not really auto - its point, line up the dots and try to hit. It would work great for newbies to have a hotkey to increase of decrease the dot range - otherwise they have to use the sub to move to where something lines up. In other words - oh crap I misjudged it - hit EXTREME SPEED AHEAD to get the dots right.... Not a good way to do auto-targeting in my view. The idea is sound - the implementation needs work. Remember - that is on AUTO....
I haven't played long enough to work with manual tdc yet. Depth controls leave me lacking the patience to do it in my limited time with the game.
Now - on the flip side - something I think the devs did right - at least from the introduction to the player side - is the deck gun. The expected shell travel graphic is wonderful, as it lets a new player jump right in to the use of the station. It would be great if we could flip that off as an option and put in rough ranges at higher levels of difficulty - or just introduce more error in the graphic - but the concept was implemented very well on that function.
SH5 is much like its predecessors in that it is a work in progress. It likely will be a great game down the road. Should Ubi remove the OSP, it will be a great game I gladly purchase. If not, I will play it on the occasional weekend when I am at my friend's house. Its up to Ubi how badly they want my ~$50.00.
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 05:03 PM
The posters claiming that they have experienced no DRM related problems are the lucky few, that or they are mindlessly defending the game despite not being able to play it, it's hard to tell these days. Some of the posts on here are straight out of an advertisement for the game, honestly, these people should be put on Ubi's PR payroll!
And there are posters who do not own the game and have no first hand experience any of the bugs or outages who then accuse people of lying about it.
Nordmann
03-19-10, 05:07 PM
And there are posters who do not own the game and have no first hand experience any of the bugs or outages who then accuse people of lying about it.
Well, it does seem strange that the servers go down, there's about ten threads a minute posted on the subject, and yet there are many who claim they've never seen an outage. Bit odd don't you think?
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 05:10 PM
Well, it does seem strange that the servers go down, there's about ten threads a minute posted on the subject, and yet there are many who claim they've never seen an outage. Bit odd don't you think?
No it doesn't. Is it possible there is more than one server globally?
Also, if you look at the posts again you'll notice that a lot of the guys experiencing an outage where based in Europe.
robbo180265
03-19-10, 05:10 PM
I can only think of one poster who claims never to have seen an outage, and I take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Have I missed anyone else?
Nordmann
03-19-10, 05:17 PM
No it doesn't. Is it possible there is more than one server globally?
Also, if you look at the posts again you'll notice that a lot of the guys experiencing an outage where based in Europe.
It is possible, but has it been confirmed? I was under the impression that both US and EU users connected to a server located in Canada?
I find it somewhat ridiculous that so many individuals who haven't even purchased the game feel the need to go on and on about how bad the bugs are and the server outages based on heresay.
I'm sure many of the posters on here, experiencing said faults, would disagree with your calling it hearsay.
Nafod81
03-19-10, 05:17 PM
I can only think of one poster who claims never to have seen an outage, and I take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Have I missed anyone else?
And not having experienced an outage once I find it odd that you think it's so common. I'm in the US, Kansas to be precise. Only play during primtime M-F and Weekends.
I find it somewhat ridiculous that so many individuals who haven't even purchased the game feel the need to go on and on about how bad the bugs are and the server outages based on heresay.
I wonder if the outages have anything to do with location of player.
From what robbo (and others) said it sounds like Ubi gave tha allied side a secret weapon, DRM. Something along the lines of the Philidelphia experiment, only its the sub that disappears. Death Ray, Magnetic.
It's posts like his that cause me to chomp at the bit, but it's nice to see I'm not the only one that's still being obstinate.:DL
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 05:23 PM
It is possible, but has it been confirmed? I was under the impression that both US and EU users connected to a server located in Canada?
I'm sure many of the posters on here, experiencing said faults, would disagree with your calling it hearsay.
I don't know. I'm sure you could be right. If that is the case then the only other explanation of why some are experiencing outages and others not, is the time difference. If Europe suffers an outage in the early evenings, that's lunchtime in parts of the US, so I conclude there are less players based in the US online at the time the server goes down.
KiwiVenge
03-19-10, 05:27 PM
.
I find it somewhat ridiculous that so many individuals who haven't even purchased the game feel the need to go on and on about how bad the bugs are and the server outages based on heresay.
Some people here have know each other for several years. And when one of their long time fellow gamers state how the game is going for them they trust their words much further then mere 'heresay'.
Nordmann
03-19-10, 05:29 PM
I don't know. I'm sure you could be right. If that is the case then the only other explanation of why some are experiencing outages and others not, is the time difference. If Europe suffers an outage in the early evenings, that's lunchtime in parts of the US, so I conclude there are less players based in the US online at the time the server goes down.
That does seem plausible, it would certainly explain why some have experienced it, and not others. We still don't really know what set-up they are using, as they have not given any official info on servers.
CaptBackasswards
03-19-10, 05:30 PM
I've bought every Silent Hunter that's ever come out. But after all the free entertainment over here over the DRM stuff, I'll stick with SH 4. Maybe in a few months if they get the bugs worked out.
Nafod81
03-19-10, 05:32 PM
Some people here have know each other for several years. And when one of their long time fellow gamers state how the game is going for them they trust their words much further then mere 'heresay'.
Fair enough I guess.
Of course this doesn't exactly support their statements for an individual who doesn't know them as well as you.
Of course I'm the untrusting type myself.
Randomizer
03-19-10, 05:35 PM
Not buying. Have zero interest in the design philosophy of SH5, my own imagination can conjour a more realistic crew, boat interior and mission context than anything UBISoft can generate.
Nisgeis
03-19-10, 05:35 PM
From the 'heresay' or 'evidence' whatever you want to call it, it seems that there are two sets of servers. One set is the authentication servers that verify your username and password and the other set is the 'continuation servers' or whatever you want to call them. Some have said that when they were on playing, they were fine, but when they came off and tried to get back on they couldn't. Others said they had trouble 'getting on' but once they were 'on' they had no problems.
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 05:37 PM
Hearsay: unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge.
Well known friend or not.
KiwiVenge
03-19-10, 05:41 PM
Hearsay: unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge.
Well known friend or not.
Ok fair enough :)
But whatever you call the state of taking someone's word who you trust as reliable is what some people are going on.
Nafod81
03-19-10, 05:49 PM
Ok fair enough :)
But whatever you call the state of taking someone's word who you trust as reliable is what some people are going on.
I see open disagreement as a prefereable state for a forum. I'm not saying those having problems are full of it. I'm just saying I've had no difficulties. Thus these comments do not apply to me in any way.
Individual users should take that into account for their own personal decisons, whatever they may be.
I'm a bit puzzled by the doom and gloom that seems pervasive here. I'm fine with reading about these difficulties, but I continue to personally believe they are overstated to a degree. Nothing more. Hence the reason I post that I haven't experienced similar difficulties.
KiwiVenge
03-19-10, 05:54 PM
.... but I continue to personally believe they are overstated to a degree. Nothing more. Hence the reason I post that I haven't experienced similar difficulties.
And that's ideal, to get both side's opinion. I can not speak for others who have yet to buy it but for me it is all about hearing from both sides of the coin. :)
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 05:58 PM
Ok fair enough :)
But whatever you call the state of taking someone's word who you trust as reliable is what some people are going on.
Kiwi, My post may have seemed churlish. It wasn't intentional, I forget to add smileys (I'm old) So here ya go... :DL:DL
KiwiVenge
03-19-10, 06:01 PM
Kiwi, My post may have seemed churlish. It wasn't intentional, I forget to add smileys (I'm old) So here ya go... :DL:DL
rofl
All good mate, but I think you had a good point anyway. I am old too (at least it feels that way at times) and I still learn something new every day, I never realized 'heresay' actually meant what it did :)
BlackSpot
03-19-10, 06:11 PM
rofl
All good mate, but I think you had a good point anyway. I am old too (at least it feels that way at times) and I still learn something new every day, I never realized 'heresay' actually meant what it did :)
Hey, where does the time go? Jesus I'm 51 this year :cry:
Funny how ones perspective changes as you get older. I read the forums and think, "Hey, it's only a GAME..." I felt very differently when I was younger. I couldn't WAIT for games to be released. Now, I kinda shrug and say, "so what, I can wait" then shuffle off in my slippers.
Impatience is for the young and they're welcome to it. Cheers :()1:
drtechno
03-19-10, 06:13 PM
There is NO reason to buy the title in its current status. First is the whole DRM issue, and not being able to play when YOU have free time, rather when UBI's servers have freetime. Then there's all the bugs (use search function) that essentially make the game unplayable. Finally, there's the jackass UI and the need for us to walk around our boat giving pep talks to our boys to boost morale. Interesting the first 5 times, infuriating waste of time the other 95 times.. here we go, I need to ask him about the Bismark AGAIN :damn:
BTW- has there been ONE good review of this game?
I am still holding out for the continuous internet connection thing to be dropped. I do not have a problem with DRM, per se, but this continuous connection thing is bullsh!t.
I simply will not buy the game until it is dropped. If it isn't dropped soon-ish, I suspect my overall interest in the game might wane. Patching and moddin may change that, though.
My two cents,
Filson
sergbuto
03-19-10, 06:26 PM
I am still on the fence. Have not bought SH5.
It's easy for me because I don't like u-boats. If this was the PTO, it would be more difficult given that the "under the hood" looks interesting to me. I was gonna buy it just to support the devs, and take a peek at the guts of it.
I don't agree with the idea that there is anything nefarious about the DRM, BTW, I just know myself and don;t ever want to sit down to a game and have it not load up because someone at ubi is incompetent—that would piss me off, and I don't feel like getting POed.
Also, the ONLY way to express disapproval is to not spend money. If you bought it, you endorsed it, no other opinion you might hold about it matters.
Ginthis
03-19-10, 06:34 PM
I'm holding out just fine and will continue to do so. From what I've seen and read about the game so far its the same old story. Unfinished and riddled with bugs. It could of been something grand if they'd been given the time and resources to actually improve upon what came before.
What it looks like to me is they tried to please both simmers and casual players, yet didn't really do right by either group. I count myself in the simmer group. I want dials, knobs, rivets, rust and depth under keel dagnabbit! Not this morale management silliness. I know there are mods now for many issues, omissions and if not there will be in the future. I guess I'm just not too keen on having to pop the hood before even playing the game yet again.
But the main reason I wont give them my money is the intrusive drm. Just adds salt in the wound.
At the end of the day they couldn't pay me to play this. :down:
Nafod81
03-19-10, 06:44 PM
There is NO reason to buy the title in its current status. First is the whole DRM issue, and not being able to play when YOU have free time, rather when UBI's servers have freetime. Then there's all the bugs (use search function) that essentially make the game unplayable. Finally, there's the jackass UI and the need for us to walk around our boat giving pep talks to our boys to boost morale. Interesting the first 5 times, infuriating waste of time the other 95 times.. here we go, I need to ask him about the Bismark AGAIN :damn:
BTW- has there been ONE good review of this game?
This is exactly what I'm complaining about.
If you wanted to say:
There is NO reason to buy the title in its current status. First is the whole DRM issue, and not being able to play when YOU have free time, rather when UBI's servers have freetime.
Then it's fair. But the rest of what you said was pretty much useless drivel. As the bugs you speak of exist, but alas the game is playable, and maybe hell is freezing over but --GASP-- Enjoyable. At least to me.
Now if you wish to not buy the game due to DRM kudos to you.
If you wish to not buy the game due to DRM and interpret/speculate the impact of every negative/"I've found a bug post" about the game to strengthen your view. I don't see why anyone would lend any credence to what you say beyond:
There is NO reason to buy the title in its current status. First is the whole DRM issue, and not being able to play when YOU have free time, rather when UBI's servers have freetime.
Isn't this thread reminding you an AA meeting or something? :hmmm:
"Hi. I'm John. Haven't had a drop of SH5 the last 14 days and I feel allright..."
:DL
BTW I'm still "shadowing" SH5......
V.C. Sniper
03-19-10, 06:56 PM
i didn't realize that i needed to spend effort to "hold out"
Im holding up alright actually!
Kinda feel like a have been through a lot in SH5, only by visiting this forum in a daily manner. But I wont support DRM or a company who sells half-finished products, those days are over.
navyvet
03-19-10, 07:02 PM
Haven't bought yet. Planning as soon as Al Gore announces global warming has reached Hell.
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 07:13 PM
So I hit F2 to look around outside and there they are on the bridge, just as expected, with the water swirling around their waists as the sub goes under.
To be fair to Ubi, most people did seem to want more immersion...
:O:
OakGroove
03-19-10, 07:26 PM
What started as a objection against an atrocious form of DRM, has turned into objection of the product itself -the state it is in, the concept behind it. As someone said, they tried to cater all, and came with some malformity that i find hard to classify. To me it looks like a persiflage on SH3, stripped of the more complete and useful stuff, but retrofitted with different graphics and abstract "features", which mostly seem to be coming from a land that reality forgot. Same bugs, disfunct routines and shortcomings as it predecessors. Deja-Vu. 5 years in a row, and each release seems to be in worse shape than the previous. Long story short, still voting with my wallet, not only against this form of DRM, but also uninspired low quality products.:down:
UnSalted
03-19-10, 07:39 PM
Well it could be worse. With most games these days it seems the "casual" gamers want a romance option, same sex included.
Just be glad that all you have to do is talk to the crew. :)
Nafod81
03-19-10, 07:49 PM
What started as a objection against an atrocious form of DRM, has turned into objection of the product itself -the state it is in, the concept behind it. As someone said, they tried to cater all, and came with some malformity that i find hard to classify. To me it looks like a persiflage on SH3, stripped of the more complete and useful stuff, but retrofitted with different graphics and abstract "features", which mostly seem to be coming from a land that reality forgot. Same bugs, disfunct routines and shortcomings as it predecessors. Deja-Vu. 5 years in a row, and each release seems to be in worse shape than the previous. Long story short, still voting with my wallet, not only against this form of DRM, but also uninspired low quality products.:down:
So how much of this statement can one presume comes from your own experience?
To be against DRM is one thing. To be against the game as a whole requires well....oh I don't know....just playing it maybe.
hocking
03-19-10, 08:05 PM
I truly believe that UBI has done incredible damage to this series, and I think they are doing incredible damage to PC gaming as a whole. Making something harder and harder to use simply makes people not want to use it.
With that said, I think UBI has created a huge opportunity for another developer, or group of developers, to create a competitive new authentic UBoat simulator. With all the mods that came out for SH3, there is incredible talent out there. Has there been any talk about a serious competitor to the SH series?
OakGroove
03-19-10, 08:10 PM
So how much of this statement can one presume comes from your own experience?
Let's just say i´ve playtested the offline "Demo". Before jumping to conclusions, no, personally i didn't acquire the game in any shape or form.
Phoenix3000
03-19-10, 08:23 PM
Hi guys,
Well, I own SH5 - Collector's Edition, and yesterday I uninstalled it. I was just fed up with the bugs and gaming 'issues'! :damn:
I'm now planning on reinstalling SH3 with either GWX or LSH with some additional mods.
Graphically SH5 is better, but for gameplay a modded SH3 wins hands down. :up:
Like many of you I will keep checking the SH5 forums for future updates, but for now SH3 is the game for me.
Just my 2p-worth...
Px3000
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 08:27 PM
Frau K, priceless! :har::har::har:
Really, though, all they need to do is capture a Royal Navy vessel and get themselves some of those magic Jesus shoes (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1315860&postcount=26).
Nafod81
03-19-10, 08:28 PM
Let's just say i´ve playtested the offline "Demo". Before jumping to conclusions, no, personally i didn't acquire the game in any shape or form.
I really don't know what to say to that. Some might think what you said is clever but it remains pretty clear what you did.
holdin out :rock:
But thats been easy as I have been on the road alot recently and will continue to be on the road for a few weeks yet. By then the bike will be out of storage and I won't be spending much time gaming anyways..
Frederf
03-19-10, 08:35 PM
I appreciate the direction that SH5 has gone philosophically. WASD and being a "captain sim" and all that. I'm still not going to "get into the game" as yet because the execution is completely half-baked.
Half of the features have been lost in the player-interaction scheme changeover and we were dreadfully lacking in ability in SH3/4. The "you gotta run around and interact with crew" concept is absolutely sabotaged by the do-everything periscope interface and arcade-style minimap.
Holding Fast.
Will_Not_Buy.
Not with OSP, never.
Holding Fast.
Will_Not_Buy.
Not with OSP, never.
:sign_yeah:
edit: actually Holding Fast makes it sound like I'm tempted, which is not the case at all. A couple of years down the road, I'll probably buy it. You know, when it's finished.
frau kaleun
03-19-10, 09:38 PM
I think we should retire to the SH3 Chateau Dardinac Officer's Casino in Lorient where no Jesus shoes are required to dance all night. :DL
I'll radio Onkel Karl to leave the light on for us. ;)
Eightbit
03-19-10, 09:48 PM
Still going strong here. Reading about all the bugs makes it even easier tho lol. Then again I almost never buy games when they first come out for that reason. I think the last time I paid full day 1 price for a game with x3 terran conflict.
And the only time I see myself doing it again is if all my friends jump on some multiplayer game and push me to do it.
So maybe a good while from now when the price drops and bugs get fixed I can justify it. Still like to read about it tho.
SurfnSea
03-19-10, 10:33 PM
Will not buy SH5 with DRM/OSP: It's the principle of the thing.
Will not buy SH5 in it's current condition.
I didn't buy SH4 until it went down to under $20 and had been modded to playability. Even if SH5 gets to the point of playability it seems even less of a sub sim than SH3 or 4. I'm still enjoying SH4 a lot and play SH3 GWX too and that's plenty for me.
So, yeah, no problems here holding out.
theluckyone17
03-19-10, 11:04 PM
Done right, I think I could be happy with the FPS aspect. The RPG elements need to be fleshed out (a lot) before I'll be satisfied. I'd love to get my hands on SH5 and start exploring the possibilities.
OSP hasn't been removed, so I'm still holding out.
rditto48801
03-19-10, 11:10 PM
I had high hopes for SH5, hoping Ubisoft learned its lessons and would release a complete game this time, one that looked and played good.
Then came the DRM issue.
I lost much desire to get SH5 at that point.
(Ubisoft seriously needs to listen to some of the stuff said by Gabe Newell of Valve during the last GDC.)
Yet, despite the DRM issue, I decided to wait and see.
I was hoping to see excellent reviews of a game that was actually released in a working and easy to use state.
Maybe a solid game that would make the DRM tolerable, or lesser DRM that would allow for dealing with early minor issues easier to do.
What do I see?
What does Ubisoft do?
They leave in the absurd DRM and release a seemingly buggy and possibly incomplete game?
(They need to seriously pay attention to stuff recently said by Gabe Newell from Valve during the latest GDC.)
I see stuff saying that, despite its few good points, and even though the FPS and RPG elements look to be interesting, it still has, to me anyways, a few to many rough points that need to be smoothed out, a not to good tutorial, and bugs that need to be fixed. (and perhaps even a few 'features' that need to be reclassified as bugs/mistakes and 'fixed'/removed?)
So, I will still hold out, but I am a little low on hope right now.
For now, I get my sub needs via SH3 (a few minor mods and SH3 Commander), plus I got SH4 handy for when I get to missing US fleet subs.
thruster
03-19-10, 11:43 PM
this is tragic.
never thought i'd see a thread on a supposed fan site devoted to sub sims actually crowing over the genres demise.
Fantasm
03-20-10, 12:07 AM
I think what is sad is that so many of you are 'settling'. the game is not in the best of shape... it's full of bugs, the whole DRM thing, the need to install a patch and mods to get it to run even marginally successfully... and I have to ask, WHY? Why are you all 'settling' for an inferior product?
Yes, it's great how the modders are toiling away to try and render it playable... I admire them.... or pity them... not sure which at the moment... LOL
Send it back, get a refund and tell them you'd be interested in a few months or a year IF they can get it right... You can bet a lot of software companies are looking at this and are saying, "Well, look, they were fed crap, sure they bitched, but they still paid for it.... "
What kind of software experience are you hoping for in the future... ? you're setting yourself up for failure.... This game is so flawed , there is no demand even for a pirated copy any more... Think about it, people don't want it for free....Assassins Creed 2 is out there in the wild, with cracks and the whole game in various incarnations.... but not SH5... because no one wants it....
It's truly sad...
robbo180265
03-20-10, 12:25 AM
this is tragic.
never thought i'd see a thread on a supposed fan site devoted to sub sims actually crowing over the genres demise.
Quoted for the truth.
If you guys feel that strongly about UBI and the DRM - why are you not posting this stuff on the Ubisoft forum?
This is Subsim , a forum dedicated to subsimmers. I totally understand why you feel the way you guys do, and have loads of respect for you too.
However, do you not think it would make a lot more sense to let Ubisoft know how you feel - rather than us subsimmers?
To be honest I'm having so much fun playing the game that I'm tending to ignore these "boycot Ubi" threads nowadays. I am however letting UBI know exactly how I feel about the DRM - on their forums.
Quoted for the truth.
If you guys feel that strongly about UBI and the DRM - why are you not posting this stuff on the Ubisoft forum?
This is Subsim , a forum dedicated to subsimmers. I totally understand why you feel the way you guys do, and have loads of respect for you too.
However, do you not think it would make a lot more sense to let Ubisoft know how you feel - rather than us subsimmers?
To be honest I'm having so much fun playing the game that I'm tending to ignore these "boycot Ubi" threads nowadays. I am however letting UBI know exactly how I feel about the DRM - on their forums.
If you've already purchased the game, Ubi doesn't care how you feel about it. They have your money, and that's all they wanted. Trust me, you can hate their guts as long as you keep giving them money; they'll be quite fine with that relationship.
The point that most concerns me personally has already been made on Ubi's forums, multiple times, and I've never seen them bother to reply to the whole, "Well, if I'm in Afghanistan, I can't possibly play the game." They have no solution, and they don't care.
If their sales are strong on games that ship with this anti-consumer DRM system, that's all that matters. Keep in mind, there are still guys somewhere in that company who think this whole thing is a fantastic idea. People complaining about it aren't going to change their minds. Industry sites covering it negatively aren't going to change their minds. Only noticeable sales drop-offs would do that.
robbo180265
03-20-10, 12:37 AM
If you've already purchased the game, Ubi doesn't care how you feel about it. They have your money, and that's all they wanted. Trust me, you can hate their guts as long as you keep giving them money; they'll be quite fine with that relationship.
The point that most concerns me personally has already been made on Ubi's forums, multiple times, and I've never seen them bother to reply to the whole, "Well, if I'm in Afghanistan, I can't possibly play the game." They have no solution, and they don't care.
If their sales are strong on games that ship with this anti-consumer DRM system, that's all that matters. Keep in mind, there are still guys somewhere in that company who think this whole thing is a fantastic idea. People complaining about it aren't going to change their minds. Industry sites covering it negatively aren't going to change their minds. Only noticeable sales drop-offs would do that.
Ok fine- could you keep the anti DRM stuff to one thread then?
Makes it easier for me to ignore it ta:up:
Rockin Robbins
03-20-10, 01:02 AM
Not a problem. SH4 rocks!:D I can wait for years for Ubi to straighten this one out, and if they don't, too bad.
I have a mild curiosity about what's in SH5 but nothing that would bother me if I never bought Silent Hunter 5. The only one to hurt would be Ubi.
By the way, we need to keep the anti-DRM thing going in as many threads as possible. The goal is to make it impossible for our message to be buried by other stuff so UBI can't get away from the reason their game is a failure. Especially if SH5 is improved and continues not to sell, UBI needs to know how simple it is to fix. Get rid of the DRM. I'm not paying to be treated like a criminal. None of us should have to.
Hey robbo, have you read my stuff on Ubi forum? I'm really a mild mannered guy here compared to in the lair of the Monster.
Ok fine- could you keep the anti DRM stuff to one thread then?
Makes it easier for me to ignore it ta:up:
I haven't started any anti-DRM threads, and I couldn't possibly make promises for other people.
Rockin Robbins
03-20-10, 02:40 AM
Robbo you already told UBI what you think about the DRM. Your money said, "UBI's DRM system is the greatest thing since 2 ply toilet paper. Make more and more games with even more insulting and invasive DRM. I don't expect to have the same rights as an owner of your copyrighted materials that I have with a book, DVD, music CD or any other similar matter, and I'm happy with that. I don't care that service people in Afganistan can't use a game supposedly dedicated to the people who serve their country. Only my own immediate gratification matters and actually anyone who cares about anything else, I will just ignore them and post in Subsim about how unreasonable they are." (That's funny, my money only says "Goodbye.")
Anything you say against DRM in the Ubi forum will be ignored, as you have already voted. You can't vote twice, and a non-monetary vote counts for nothing. Money is the only vote that counts. Sending them money votes for the DRM. Withholding the money votes against. End of story.:D
I pointedly jingle my money in their general direction and wait for them to fix their disgraceful problem.
thruster
03-20-10, 03:29 AM
nobody can force you to buy a game, i would never even try. also, nobody is trying to condone a crap product.
there will always be flying games, car driving games, mindless gun blasters etc etc, but if the only subsim doesnt sell then there probably will not be another one. not trying to use emotional blackmail, just a very sad fact. for me, my current job/lifestyle currently makes me unable to play it yet, but i'll still buy it.
i will ultimately just be grateful to have the opportunity to play an upgraded version of SH3 which is what SH5 is. if it was not modable then it would be still-born, but it is modable, so there is life and potential in it yet.
i want to have a uboat sim, its a niche market, i do not expect a 'tailored solution in an off the rack world'.
Holding off on buying SH 5. Have entered "observation mode". Neals review gave enough water on my mill in regards to other flaws then the DRM.....
The only thing I love is the graphics.
The bugs kill this game for me and I find the walk around sub just ok.
Why they just didn't release SH3 with GWX and include a more interactive sub interior, the dynamic campaign and SH5 graphics, I will never know.
I suppose the devs were under pressure to innovate and the deadline got the better of them.
But I am currently playing SH4,uboat xpac and OM mod.
That makes me a happy man and SH5 has been shelved in the hope that in 1-2 years time it will be ALOT better.
If it isn't, then it will be nothing more than a learned mistake.
No more ubisoft games for me for my PC or PS3.
But then ubisoft has my money for this and that's all that matters really isn't it.
Uber Gruber
03-20-10, 06:01 AM
To answer the OP question, and because I have a mad tendency to jump at the chance to slate UBIs DRM/OSP/BOLOX.... i'm holding out very well. No doubt the game is pretty, but i've been around long enough to know that a pretty girl is not necessarily a nice girl.
And a pretty girl with DRM is like trying to hump a dead mermaid.
I suggest you SHFivers check out the latest developments in SH3....beautiful she is.
UG
It would be interesting to see some our US service brothers perhaps contacting someone like Fox News about the French Corporation denying not only service personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq, but Sailors in the US Navy the ability to play the historical and educational simulator.
It would be interesting to see how they run with it... ;)
RR is spot on, your money was the only statement Ubi really sees. If you bought it, you told them you love the new DRM, plain and simple. No other statement by any purchaser has any meaning. Money talks.
As for posting at the ubi forum—to what end? I suspect more devs read SS, frankly, and they know how we feel about it.
Kapitanleutnant
03-20-10, 11:47 AM
never thought i'd see a thread on a supposed fan site devoted to sub sims actually crowing over the genres demise.How many times do I have to say this... SILENT HUNTER IS NOT THE GENRE
The death of the SH series can only be good for the subsim genre at this point. A gap in the market is what's needed to draw in some other developer. No doubt it'll take a few years, but I'm prepared to wait. In the mean-time; good riddance to bad rubbish.
thruster
03-20-10, 11:56 AM
SILENT HUNTER IS NOT THE GENRE
cool! thats great news!! what other sub game is there [, WW2 in particular]?
what incentive is there for any high powered software company to invest in such a niche market, if the last one died?
please, im hanging for some good news at the moment.......
Rockin Robbins
03-20-10, 12:05 PM
And I don't see anyone crowing. This is the siege of Troy with the Acheans arrayed outside the gates, nobody really wanting to do battle but the prize worth fighting for. The prize is our right to be Customers with a capital C, the reason for the gaming company's existence, boss of their being, honored as the true fans, supporters, defenders of the franchise.
Ubi thinks THEY are the reason for their own existence, that they will dictate the terms of engagement and we are criminals, against whom they must defend with great prejudice. They believe they call the tune and we dance. In fact, they are utterly defenseless and completely at the mercy of the market, their delusions notwithstanding.
Customers with a capital C call the tune. We play the tune. We dance to our own tune. If they wish to meet our needs, fine. If not, another will be happy to. Somebody play "Free Bird!"
A Tale
Once upon a time, a behemoth monster named Wal-Mart espied Germany and counted the spoil. Just as they did in other lands, they would invade, subjugate and plunder at will because they were the mightiest corporate entity in the world, unvanquished on the plain of commerce. Launching an awesome assault, spending billions of dollars, they asserted their dominance in this quaint little land, shining power and majesty on all, commanding obedience to their higher power.
But little Aldi commanded no one. They merely asked what the Customer, their lord, wished and could they be so honored as to serve him. Where Wal-Mart saved the Customer 20% from the market if they would pledge their fealty and bow down at the altar of Walton to receive what Wal-Mart deemed they might receive, Aldi asked the customers to command them, and saved them an additional 20% over Wal-Mart's not so generous prices. Wal-Marts all over the land stood empty, their coffers bare, their stores bulging with inventory. They had deep pockets. They would force the people to obey.
But the people did not obey. Aldi had earned their loyalty by serving the Customer. The Customer had no need or desire to serve Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart quietly closed all their stores, sold their assets at an astounding billions of dollars loss and slunk out of Germany with its royal tail between its legs. And little Aldi prospered, quietly gathering momentum for its assault on the home of Wal-Mart, the United States of America. Now, without fanfare, after careful study of the American market so they can serve American needs, not German ones here, Aldi is advancing. Wal-Mart is very afraid, and they should be. At Aldi the Customer is King.
Kapitanleutnant
03-20-10, 12:06 PM
cool! thats great news!! what other sub game is there?
Danger From The Deep? And try AoTD while you're at it. It's a very good game. There's always Dangerous Waters too. Just because Ubisoft's newly minted turd is the latest and most visible it doesn't make it the entre genre in and of itself.
what incentive is there for any high powered software company to invest in such a niche market, if the last one died?The incentive comes from the fact that there would now a Silent Hunter-shaped gap in the market. Without the need to compete against Ubisoft the prospect would look much more promising to any smaller development house.
what incentive is there for any high powered software company to invest in such a niche market, if the last one died?
There isn't any. EA's not suddenly going to release a sub sim if SH tanks.
However, there are probably some smaller dev houses that might. Ubisoft Romania, if looked at solely as a development team, isn't exactly some monolith; they're a niche game development house, with H.A.W.X. being the possible exception to that statement. They get Ubisoft's worldwide publishing power and brand recognition.
I could see some Russian group picking up the torch if Silent Hunter went the way of the dodo - maybe Akella. Russians seem to love themselves some sims. It wouldn't be as graphically polished as an Ubisoft release, no doubt about that, but I don't think the genre would die. Uncertain hiatus for a couple years, sure.
I would not laud the death of SH, myself.
Contrary to most in the anti-DRM crowd, I'd actually prefer a subscriptive service with constant updates from the devs in return—and real responsiveness to demonstrated problems like the damage/collision model, historical campaign inaccuracies, etc, ad nauseum.
It would be interesting to see some our US service brothers perhaps contacting someone like Fox News about the French Corporation denying not only service personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq, but Sailors in the US Navy the ability to play the historical and educational simulator.
It would be interesting to see how they run with it... ;)
Heh. Much as I loathe Fox, that's actually not a terrible idea.
I'm not going to do it, though, despite that very fact being the main reason I haven't and won't pick up the game, as I've said several times.
It's also the one argument that the DRM proponents have absolutely no answer for, because there isn't one.
thruster
03-20-10, 12:30 PM
Danger From The Deep? And try AoTD while you're at it. It's a very good game. There's always Dangerous Waters too.
sure, all older titles. i played AoTD years ago, thats a DOS game right? [pardon my complete ignorance about computers]. ive still got SH3 and yes its very good, but its the new generation stuff im seeking. already SH5 appears a much more graphically immersive game, and the mod community is slowly correcting gameplay.
i can appreciate your concept of "let the contemptuous big company die to allow keen little one carry the mantle". its a brave call, im not so optimistic. flight games are a dime-a-dozen, i fear theyll try a more popular market, one that already has a strong interest base.
i hope you are right and i am wrong!
Kapitanleutnant
03-20-10, 12:34 PM
Danger From The Deep is about as new as it's possible to be, since it's still in development. AoTD can be run with DosBox. It may even work in XP compatibility mode.
thruster
03-20-10, 12:50 PM
....you DO have some good news!
thanks for the heads-up re 'danger from the deep'. ive obviously confused the title, as im not at all familiar with that. i'll go check it out.
cheers. :woot:
Kapitanleutnant
03-20-10, 01:03 PM
Here's a link. (http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/)
Soundman
03-20-10, 01:17 PM
Sticking to my guns. I will not buy it with DRM. Think about it this way....I still play some sims older than 10 years old. If they were to never release the game without removing DRM, how long could we expect them to keep the servers running? I doubt 10 years. ;) I'll hold out. Besides, it appears there are too many issues that need fixing in order to make it playable anyway.
msalama
03-21-10, 03:06 AM
SH5 seems to be a total stinker so I've no plans to buy it anytime soon. Not whining, though, because I'm perfectly happy exploring, learning and piloting the Shark for now (and occasionally playing some SH3 / GWX too).
But yeah, maybe later if the game gets fixed.
I'm holding out just fine! As long as this OSP/DRM is in place I will not buy/play it, ever!!:salute:
Snestorm
03-21-10, 04:25 AM
Still love my SH3.
SH5 just doesn't hold any appeal to me.
I do however stop by to see how the Damage Control is going.
Although it isn't for me, I hope those that have taken a keen interest in it can fully enjoy it, as much as I enjoy SH3.
Here's a link. (http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/)
and here the newest builds...
http://kawaii.indexof.co.uk/dangerdeep-latest/
and here the newest builds...
http://kawaii.indexof.co.uk/dangerdeep-latest/How big is this, I thought the whole thing was only 64mb, must have been an old version, the new versions seem to be around 200mb zipped, could you please elaborate!:hmmm:
How big is this, I thought the whole thing was only 64mb, must have been an old version, the new versions seem to be around 200mb zipped, could you please elaborate!:hmmm:
I use the 0.30 basebuild and install the newer builds via JSGME. Currently I use 3319.45 which has many improvements (vanilla 0.30 crashed sometimes when loading on my system) and lots more detail (e.g. nicer textures, which alone sum up to 100mb).
-> Artwork by Luis Barrancos, Thorsten Jorden, Martin Albertstadt, Marco Sarolo.
-> Soundtracks by Vera Lynn, and Betty Roche.
I hope it will get better and better. there is also a little thread here at subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=75759
mikeydredd
03-21-10, 09:45 AM
I'm holding out ok so far - still haven't bought it. And won't until the DRM is gone.
An unexpected bonus from this fiasco has been reading the convoluted logic from the DRM apologistas on these forums and having the best laugh I've had for ages.
I must admit I find the work Heretic is doing very intriguing.
Agree with Rockin Robbins wholeheardedly. The REAL power is in OUR pockets.
Up the revolution!!!
:arrgh!:
RR is spot on, your money was the only statement Ubi really sees. If you bought it, you told them you love the new DRM, plain and simple. No other statement by any purchaser has any meaning. Money talks.
The obvious flaw in the "hold out" plan is that UBI won't see or feel what YOU didn't buy. You and the other couple of dozen (or couple of hundred if you subscribe to the 10:1 lurker to poster ratio theory) are an insignificant minority that can't even be quanitified.
I would venture to say that 95% + of UBI's sales on a game like SH5 or AC2 come from folks who don't know what DRM is or don't care. As far as the bugs and missing features go?... they probably won't even play the games long enough to notice. **
The point is, from UBI's perspective it's quite safe to ingore us, the insignificant few... UNLESS we make noise.
Lots of unpleasant noise.
Far better, in this regard, to buy the game and return it, than not to buy it at all. That way your objections stand some chance of registering.
JD
** this BTW is probably the use case employed when deciding which bugs get fixed and which ship with the initial release.
.
I would venture to say that 95% + of UBI's sales on a game like SH5 or AC2 come from folks who don't know what DRM is or don't care.
Well, well, this hypothesis is being tested just now. Wait and see in a few month or a year what the result will be. I would judge so quickly. Although the number of subsim members "lurking" is probably small, just need to go out and check reviews and previews of (presently) SHV and ACII. Doesn't matter, you can even read the amazon(com/uk/de etc) customer reviews and you'll find that about 90% are worst possible rating. I assume ACII could have been big enough of a franchise for Ubi to make a difference once they get their next quarter sales report together. They'll need to explain to their stockholders...
Well, well, this hypothesis is being tested just now. Wait and see in a few month or a year what the result will be. I would judge so quickly. Although the number of subsim members "lurking" is probably small, just need to go out and check reviews and previews of (presently) SHV and ACII. Doesn't matter, you can even read the amazon(com/uk/de etc) customer reviews and you'll find that about 90% are worst possible rating. I assume ACII could have been big enough of a franchise for Ubi to make a difference once they get their next quarter sales report together. They'll need to explain to their stockholders...
Don't misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that a minority can't make a difference. What I am suggesting is that the way to make that difference is to do something that causes your complaints and objections to register in some way with the decision makers.
Review writers, professional or otherwise (eg, on Amazon), can make a difference. Store returns can make a difference (you are almost always asked about your reason for return). Industry writers, many of whom use forums like these to gauge the acceptance of a game release, can make a difference.
I just don't see a few dozen or a few hundred "hold outs" accomplishing that. Even if every single one of us who participate in the UBI and/or Subsim SH5 forums refused to buy the game, I doubt that would even register as a blip in UBI's revenue stream.
Just MHO...
JD
I see your point about not buying, but I'm not going to the trouble of buying and returning, and I simply cannot endorse the scheme by buying—personally.
It's funny, nothing about the game itself interests me right now except that the modder in me wants to have it just so I can fix it, lol. If the DRM went away, I'd buy it, and not even play, I'd just work on fixing stuff. My "game" would be taking it apart, lol (that or a fleet boat total conversion so I could actually play ;) ).
Webster
03-21-10, 11:12 AM
I see your point about not buying, but I'm not going to the trouble of buying and returning, and I simply cannot endorse the scheme by buying—personally.
its also giving them "sales and revenue projections" based off of those sales that ARE recorded while they dont "have to" advertise or even track or mention returns.
stuff like that is always hidden and lied about to protect peoples jobs from being lost and you cant even begin to assume those who would react to such data in a favorable way to customers would not be kept in the dark about it.
i_b_spectre
03-21-10, 11:29 AM
The obvious flaw in the "hold out" plan is that UBI won't see or feel what YOU didn't buy.
That cannot be possible. Ubi says they know that pirates cost them sales and can even whip up some lost dollar statistics for you. They also can tell you how much money they "lose" through used game resale. However, we all know that statistics are capable manipulation in support of whatever argument you're trying to make.
Businesses run on the "bottom line" and the bottom line for UBI is whether the amount of game sales versus costs equals profit. Buy it and you reinforce whatever business model they are pushing. If enough people don't buy it, sales figures suffer and will show the need to make changes. Your lack of purchase does count.
Never anticipated the feelings were so strong, or those not buying it would hangout here after all that's been said and done.
Alas I'm out, lost the contest like Kramer, lost the $50.00. So now I'm on the other side (dark it is), but from what I read in the manual it isn't all that broke.
But I won't be playing it anyway for sometime since the sim's technology has outpaced my PC. Maybe it would be good for Ubi to drop it if in doing so they give us one more patch removing DRM and the keys to the rest of the city so it can be fixed by those who know how to write a sim.
As for me, $50.00 use to be my warm up to a night of drinking, so I've wasted far more on far less.
I just don't see a few dozen or a few hundred "hold outs" accomplishing that. Even if every single one of us who participate in the UBI and/or Subsim SH5 forums refused to buy the game, I doubt that would even register as a blip in UBI's revenue stream.
I think you're overestimating just how widespread the appeal of the subsim genre is.
And that's the problem with getting anything "done" via SH5. If sales don't meet or even come close to projections, then whatever executive that was in charge of the anti-consumer DRM can simply paint it as the death of interest in the subsim genre amongst consumers. They can spin low SH5 sales however they want.
I do believe SH5 sales are pretty bad. As I mentioned in another thread, it hasn't held on to a top 10 spot on either Direct2Drive or Steam beyond its second week out of the gate - and Counter-Strike: Source actually beat it during that second week, which is kind of sad. The reviews are abysmal as well.
AC2's another matter entirely, and that's the one I'm watching. Great reviews, widely popular...if the PC sales go south, that might be something.
Question arises, if they wanted to kill the subsim genre why not just stop at SH4. Nobody was twisting their arm to make another. Couldn't twist their arm to drop DRM, don't think they cared if there was a SH5 or not. So they only endangered thier reputation by putting out a piece of crap just to kill off the genre. It could have been ended at SH4 and nobody would have noticed. What doesn't exist can't be ridiculed.
Question arises, if they wanted to kill the subsim genre why not just stop at SH4. Nobody was twisting their arm to make another. Couldn't twist their arm to drop DRM, don't think they cared if there was a SH5 or not. So they only endangered thier reputation by putting out a piece of crap just to kill off the genre. It could have been ended at SH4 and nobody would have noticed. What doesn't exist can't be ridiculed.
Who said they wanted to kill the genre?
They also can tell you how much money they "lose" through used game resale.
Stop the bull**** here. Right now.
If I buy a game, I buy a licence and download a game or get a physical copy of the game. When I buy the game, Ubisoft is PAID for it.
When I sell my game, I do not keep it. I give the game and the license to someone else. Ubisoft has been PAID for this very license and game.
Thus :
1. There is no loss for them. They have been paid
2. Only one copy of that license is used, and paid for
I will not stand this bull**** loss thru resale.
If Ubisoft is not happy, they can move to Corea, China or the closest fascist country of their choosin where they will be able to put a bullet in the head or send people that copy their games to prisonner camps to get tortured.
No company will prevent me from selling a license I bought.
Over. My. Dead. Body.
Platapus
03-21-10, 11:57 AM
I purchased the game but have not installed it yet.
Hans Schultz
03-21-10, 11:58 AM
I'm still holding out, and I'm holding up just fine thank you :03:. I really want to see a price drop or some answer to as UBI plans of finishing the game (or not). I would also like to see a change with the DRM requirements but I seriously doubt that will happen.
I'm still holding out, and I'm holding up just fine thank you :03:. I really want to see a price drop or some answer to as UBI plans of finishing the game (or not). I would also like to see a change with the DRM requirements but I seriously doubt that will happen.
What he wrote.
If they patch it again and change the DRM, then I may think about getting it. I'm happy enough with SH 4 + mods. I do have SHIII, but it regrettably won't be re-installed as it's an original edition w/Starforce. I'm not taking a chance with my DVDrom again.
Mike.
"And that's the problem with getting anything "done" via SH5. If sales don't meet or even come close to projections, then whatever executive that was in charge of the anti-consumer DRM can simply paint it as the death of interest in the subsim genre amongst consumers. They can spin low SH5 sales however they want."
I may have misunderstood this statement but I've heard others say that they're trying to kill the genre. I just took your words as saying the same in another way. You made it sound like the anti-consumer execs are willing to quickly drop the genre for any excuse. Without trying to ressusitate it, even by unextraordinary means. A word from Ubi would be a basic start. And their silence lends credence to those who say they want to kill off Ubi subsims. Me, I don't know. Maybe they do want it dead. Or maybe they're working hard to fix the mess and don't have time to issue a statement.
That's how I read it anyway, but that's the nature of the written word sometimes.
The devs read SS and other boards. They know how many feel about the DRM.
"And that's the problem with getting anything "done" via SH5. If sales don't meet or even come close to projections, then whatever executive that was in charge of the anti-consumer DRM can simply paint it as the death of interest in the subsim genre amongst consumers. They can spin low SH5 sales however they want."
I may have misunderstood this statement but I've heard others say that they're trying to kill the genre. I just took your words as saying the same in another way. You made it sound like the anti-consumer execs are willing to quickly drop the genre for any excuse. Without trying to ressusitate it, even by unextraordinary means. A word from Ubi would be a basic start. And their silence lends credence to those who say they want to kill off Ubi subsims. Me, I don't know. Maybe they do want it dead. Or maybe they're working hard to fix the mess and don't have time to issue a statement.
That's how I read it anyway, but that's the nature of the written word sometimes.
What I meant by that was simply that, if SH5 ends up underperforming as badly as it appears to be at present, there's no guarantee - or, really, even a reason - for Ubisoft to acknowledge that it's due to anti-consumer DRM. They could simply spin it as declining interest in the subsim genre. And I think they would.
I don't think the execs who made the call on the DRM would drop the SH series at any excuse, but I do firmly believe they would drop it long before they dropped the DRM itself.
The devs read SS and other boards. They know how many feel about the DRM.
Of course they do. Which is why I'm sure they'd drop the SH series before they dropped the DRM. They know it's almost universally hated, and those that don't hate it aren't exactly for it. They're getting hammered for it all over the place. Any site that allows user reviews/comments has had its SH5 rating dragged into the toilet over DRM. If they were going to back down, they would have.
BigBANGtheory
03-21-10, 12:39 PM
Its not just about DRM is also about quality, I am holding out fine whilst the game is in it current state and yeah I probably would pay $100+ for the perfect subsim game.
Yeah, DRM aint the only gemlin in the works, not by a long shot. If the game had rave reviews with the DRM being the only fly in the ointment I think there'd be a lot fewer holdouts.
Just look a Neal's reveiw as an example. There's a guy that didn't have any problems with DRM before the sim was released. And I'm thinking that DRM didn't influence his review one iota. Those execs need to play their own game.
As for me, I remember what was done with SH2 and that's the only hope I have att.
Of course they do. Which is why I'm sure they'd drop the SH series before they dropped the DRM. They know it's almost universally hated, and those that don't hate it aren't exactly for it. They're getting hammered for it all over the place. Any site that allows user reviews/comments has had its SH5 rating dragged into the toilet over DRM. If they were going to back down, they would have.
True. I know that I will seek out new ubi releases to ding down on places like Amazon as a sort of sport, even assuming I never buy another.
the_belgian
03-21-10, 01:06 PM
so,in the first post in this topic the big question is to buy SHV while DRM is still the only way to play the game,right?
i think i took that risk and even more!i knew my computer wouldn't reach the minimum requirements but that could not stop me from buying.
i was even able to have some playing in the historical missions as long as i didn't try to get on deck,for a unknown reason i can get up the stairs,climb up but with two steps to go i seem to run into a invissible wall(!?!).
but as far as i have been able to play and look at the game it's worth waiting for a new PC.
DRM,and i know i repeat myself on this one,is just a temporary problem that will be solved in time...
KiwiVenge
03-21-10, 01:38 PM
I have to admit, after a weekend without server problems I am pretty damned close to buying this game.
I have to admit, after a weekend without server problems I am pretty damned close to buying this game.
What's stopping you?
KiwiVenge
03-21-10, 01:52 PM
What's stopping you?
Not sure if I will be able to enjoy it if I experienced some of the myriad of problems that various folks seem to be having that makes the game unplayable. Server issues would of driven me nuts so was waiting to see if that problem settled down, and now it seems to of. At least for this past weekend.
I feel like I should know better and give it time before buying it, yet the pull to give it a go is definitely there. Yet I would have such a "I knew better but bought it anyway" feel if I did buy it and then had some of the bigger problems others are having and end up shelfing it because it doesn't work for me.
Nisgeis
03-21-10, 01:57 PM
Not sure if I will be able to enjoy it if I experienced some of the myriad of problems that various folks seem to be having that makes the game unplayable.
I've been playing for hours and hours, as have others, so there can't be any bugs that make the game unplayable. Sure there are a few bugs, but none that actually stop you playaing the game. There have been people who have said that this and that for them made the game unplayable - e.g. 'You can store electric torpedoes in the external stores?! WTF?! That's a game breaker for me! I hope everyone at Ubisoft dies' etcetera. If you aren't prone to throw your toys out of the pram and are open to a new way of playing, you won't have that problem.
KiwiVenge
03-21-10, 03:19 PM
Ok, this holder outer has caved lol
Should have the game in the next day or two. :ping:
Welcome to the club Kiwi.
Armistead
03-21-10, 03:53 PM
I'm still sailing the Pacific, happy and free. I won't buy SH5 until all the bugs are fixed. I can't play a game that is arcadish and even a few silly bugs ruin it for me. I don't want just a playable game, I want a realistic fun subsim. If I played it now I would end up just putting it on the shelf.
Hopefully in several months it will be patched, DRM dropped and a few supermods to make it a great game and I should be able to get it in a bargain bin...
Sh4 with mods is still GREAT!. Thank U MOD TEAMS!!!!!:rock:
I will never buy this title unless the DRM is removed.
Hell, I may NEVER buy it just on principle :stare:
At this moment I will not be buying another Ubi title..
:cry:
Lord help us all if IL-2(Storm of War) is published by Ubi.
:damn:
Chris
Flopper
03-21-10, 09:05 PM
I'll buy it right now if no DRM. Otherwise, I'm going try to hold off until it's 5 dollars. SH3 rules.
SteamWake
03-21-10, 09:20 PM
Lord help us all if IL-2(Storm of War) is published by Ubi.
Chris
Urkkkk.. choke ... gasp.... :oops:
Spartan
03-21-10, 09:47 PM
Doing just fine. DRM is pure evil and never believe otherwise. The sooner the vexing blight is gone from games the better. Any DRM beyond a basic serial number only harms legit customers.
I have likely saved over $3,000 the past couple years not buying UBI or EA games because of DRM. Additionally, arguably I have saved ten times that amount from not making music purchases either outside of Amazon where I'm at about the $4k mark in music purchases since it stopped using DRM.
sabretwo
03-21-10, 09:50 PM
I'm still holding out. No way I'm going to waste money on a game that I can't play when I want to play (usually when I travel).
So screw 'em...SH3 lives on!
DiverDan
03-22-10, 11:36 AM
I'm doing fine with holding out. A recent article showed how most developers drop DRM after a while, so I don't mind waiting. By then, maybe the bugs are fixed and the modding community will have made it a much nicer game. I'll purchase it in the $10 bargain bin, then contribute the extra money to the modders, who certainly deserve it more than UBI.
Besides, I'm not a hard-core gamer, and I'm still exploring more of III and IV. I want UBI to fail on this one and show DRM kills sales, so I won't be a part of rewarding them. You might say, if we don't purchase it, they won't produce another subsim. Who cares? If this is the kind of crap they are putting out, who needs a newer version of that?
Interesting read:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20000506-248.html
It popped up in stores, but most people don't know that you need a permanent connection. Saved two laptop travellers a couple of bucks this weekend. They were quite bummed out, guess we all wished it was a glorious installment.
TteFAboB
03-22-10, 01:03 PM
The only way to wane your curiosity and resist temptation is to stop looking at it and thinking about it.
As if it were a big chocolate cake or the girl next door.
:hmmm:
Just need to find something else to put on your radar :ping: until this game is online DRM-free, patched and modded, if ever.
scrapser
03-22-10, 01:17 PM
I'm holding out just fine.
SH5? I can't go for that...no can do. I also don't hit my thumb with a hammer over and over and do not use credit cards longer than 21 days.
I am actually really enjoying SH5. Despite the bugs and my complaints a few days/week ago, I haven't been able to put it down. I must be one of the lucky ones as I have never had any issues with the new DRM nor have I had any games crashes/ctds/etc..
As someone who generally plays from hotel room while on business travel, and where internet connection is often priced at $50 a night (yes, you heard right) there is no way in hell I'm ever buying this game.
Even if I was only ever playing at home, I refuse to buy a game that requires permanent internet connection.
What happens to those who bought it when the servers are down, your internet connection is swamped, or Ubisoft go bust?
If I buy it I have the right to play it when I want, where I want. Ergo as long as the DRM from hell exists I will never buy another Ubisoft game ever again.
Bilge_Rat
03-22-10, 02:31 PM
Ok, this holder outer has caved lol
Should have the game in the next day or two. :ping:
welcome to the club...be warned though, this game is addictive...:salute:
What happens to those who bought it when the servers are down, your internet connection is swamped, or Ubisoft go bust?
I think the official line now is that such things only happen to people who would have pirated the game if the new DRM wasn't in place.
Bilge_Rat
03-22-10, 02:35 PM
Quoted for the truth.
If you guys feel that strongly about UBI and the DRM - why are you not posting this stuff on the Ubisoft forum?
This is Subsim , a forum dedicated to subsimmers. I totally understand why you feel the way you guys do, and have loads of respect for you too.
However, do you not think it would make a lot more sense to let Ubisoft know how you feel - rather than us subsimmers?
To be honest I'm having so much fun playing the game that I'm tending to ignore these "boycot Ubi" threads nowadays.
:sign_yeah:
could'nt agree more...:salute:
shawnyp420
03-22-10, 02:59 PM
I bought it but I'm not playing it cuz this shiz sucks!
Hans Schultz
03-22-10, 03:10 PM
Ok, this holder outer has caved lol
Should have the game in the next day or two. :ping:
same here :haha: I bought it today via steam. I'm downloading it now. I was watching James Cameron's Expedition Bismarck today and it made me want to play SH5 so bad.. :damn:
Sailor Steve
03-22-10, 03:46 PM
Quoted for the truth.
If you guys feel that strongly about UBI and the DRM - why are you not posting this stuff on the Ubisoft forum?
This is Subsim , a forum dedicated to subsimmers. I totally understand why you feel the way you guys do, and have loads of respect for you too.
However, do you not think it would make a lot more sense to let Ubisoft know how you feel - rather than us subsimmers?
To be honest I'm having so much fun playing the game that I'm tending to ignore these "boycot Ubi" threads nowadays. I am however letting UBI know exactly how I feel about the DRM - on their forums.
Have you been reading the UBI forums? If not, how do you know who is or is not posting in similar threads there? The fact is, several people here stated they wouldn't buy it. Some of those changed their minds and bought it anyway. I have no problem with that. Now the OP of this thread asked how we were holding out, I assume meaning were we still not buying it? A perfectly legitimate question, asked (in my case, anyway) of a dedicated subsimmer, and I answered it. Why is that a problem for those whom UBI will allow to play it?
For your information, I sent an e-mail directly to UBI and signed all the petitions. I have started no threads, but don't feel any guilt at all about answering these threads and discussing my feelings.
Does that answer your question?
I bought it but I'm not playing it cuz this shiz sucks!
Too late. If you gave them your money then you told them it was okay.
robbo180265
03-22-10, 03:58 PM
Have you been reading the UBI forums? If not, how do you know who is or is not posting in similar threads there? The fact is, several people here stated they wouldn't buy it. Some of those changed their minds and bought it anyway. I have no problem with that. Now the OP of this thread asked how we were holding out, I assume meaning were we still not buying it? A perfectly legitimate question, asked (in my case, anyway) of a dedicated subsimmer, and I answered it. Why is that a problem for those whom UBI will allow to play it?
For your information, I sent an e-mail directly to UBI and signed all the petitions. I have started no threads, but don't feel any guilt at all about answering these threads and discussing my feelings.
Does that answer your question?
Too late. If you gave them your money then you told them it was okay.
Hi Steve,
Yes I do read the UBI forums and if you have a look there you'll see I've posted under my user name. I haven't seen to many of the people in this thread there - but that said , they may be using a different name.
Now to my post.
The one you've quoted here has been re-quoted and thus is out of context. I suggest you go back through the posts - read it in context and then tell me how you feel about it.
To be honest I was bemoaning the negativity in some of these threads combined with the complete lack of knowledge about the game, and yet a seemingly endless supply of "game breaking bugs" quoted by some.
TBH I'm sick to death of the whole "DRM is bad M'kay" "Silent Hunter is crap M'kay" threads, but if they float your boat (see what I did there:D) Then that is also cool.
In all honesty I belive the whole thing is dying down a bit anyway - I'm far to busy enjoying playing SH5 to worry about it either way:up:
scrapser
03-22-10, 04:14 PM
Quoted for the truth.
If you guys feel that strongly about UBI and the DRM - why are you not posting this stuff on the Ubisoft forum?
This is Subsim , a forum dedicated to subsimmers. I totally understand why you feel the way you guys do, and have loads of respect for you too.
However, do you not think it would make a lot more sense to let Ubisoft know how you feel - rather than us subsimmers?
To be honest I'm having so much fun playing the game that I'm tending to ignore these "boycot Ubi" threads nowadays. I am however letting UBI know exactly how I feel about the DRM - on their forums.
I was going to but when I went there and saw that they already are swamped with complaints I figured the message had already been sent. Now I'm waiting to see how it all plays out (and will check the bargain bin at the appropriate time).
talonclawz
03-22-10, 04:27 PM
To answer the original question, I am holding out just fine. From all indications and from my personal experience playing it at a friends, the game really sucks major bollocks. I have no intention of purchasing the game. Even if it didn't have DRM, I still wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It makes me sick to see how far this franchise has fallen. This is the worst one yet. If it is going to continue to suck, just fire the developers and shelve the series. I want something I can play that doesn't require 20 minutes of my time whenever I want to give/execute and order on my boat.
Hi Steve,
In all honesty I belive the whole thing is dying down a bit anyway - I'm far to busy enjoying playing SH5 to worry about it either way:up:
I'm not sure I'd go that far. A lot of the gaming public may have a short memory when it comes to DRM absurdities like Sony BMG and Starforce, but there'll be plenty of industry folks who won't let a company that once championed Starforce off the hook for requiring users to jump through freshly absurd hoops - direct connections to servers are a two-way street, after all.
robbo180265
03-22-10, 04:37 PM
I'm not sure I'd go that far. A lot of the gaming public may have a short memory when it comes to DRM absurdities like Sony BMG and Starforce, but there'll be plenty of industry folks who won't let a company that once championed Starforce off the hook for requiring users to jump through freshly absurd hoops - direct connections to servers are a two-way street, after all.
Oh - no I meant here in the forums , my bad I should have explained myself better :oops:
Sailor Steve
03-22-10, 05:10 PM
TBH I'm sick to death of the whole "DRM is bad M'kay" "Silent Hunter is crap M'kay" threads, but if they float your boat (see what I did there:D) Then that is also cool.
Actually I don't blame you for being "sick to death" of it. I said my piece long ago, and actually talked down to some of the folks who kept saying it over and over; so I'm tired of the most extreme comments myself. I guess I'm just used to seeing all these arguments and they don't bother me.
As for the UBI threads, I stopped being a regular there while waiting for SH3 five years ago, but I still go check them out. I suspect that these forums get read by UBI just as much as their own do.
And ass for how I feel, read my post in the 'Polarized' thread.
robbo180265
03-22-10, 05:15 PM
Actually I don't blame you for being "sick to death" of it. I said my piece long ago, and actually talked down to some of the folks who kept saying it over and over; so I'm tired of the most extreme comments myself. I guess I'm just used to seeing all these arguments and they don't bother me.
As for the UBI threads, I stopped being a regular there while waiting for SH3 five years ago, but I still go check them out. I suspect that these forums get read by UBI just as much as their own do.
And ass for how I feel, read my post in the 'Polarized' thread.
Just read it matey:rotfl2:
Sailor Steve
03-22-10, 05:46 PM
And I can't believe I just wrote "ass" for "as".:rotfl2::oops::oops::oops:
Thomas Kenobi
03-22-10, 05:55 PM
@OP:
Holding out just fine myself as well. In about 6-9 months time, when the mega-mods for SHV have reached maturity and assuming Ubisoft has by that time removed the DRM scheme, then I'll reconsider.
Until then Grey Wolves will do just fine... Plenty of new things left for me to explore and learn in that setup. Say... U-Jagd tools for example.
Haven't bought it yet (had it in my hands, though) and won't until that DRM is removed. There's no way I'm caving in at the current state of the game. Running around the sub and having very limited interaction options with the crew doesn't sound like much fun. I also don't like this arcadey campaign concept. While I don't have anything against being sent for some specific missions/tasks (on the contrary; I miss that in SH3), I have a problem with actually having to complete those successfully (sinking two carriers? yeah, right) to move on (unless I misunderstood something). I expect that modders will update the crew interaction and the campaign, but it will take some time by which point I hope the DRM will be removed.
I think, I shall leave this out.
First the DRM issue - for me THE showstopper - second the arcade type game - no - eye candy alone makes no game.
If there will be a DRM patch and the game is modded reasonably, a definite maybe.
If the mods are good, I am afraid, I shall fall back to some nodvd stuff. In this case, I shall buy a copy then.
I will not buy it until they remove DRM
Still holding out.
They better hurry.
I need to make those surface ships mutliplayer playable and import our working ones from sh4.
Not to mention a bunch of other things. :)
I don't want to get the game then watch a patch negate my work.
Schultzy
03-23-10, 06:42 AM
Still holding out here too. I just upgraded to a better PC, so I'm currently working through all the demos that wouldn't run previously.
There are a lot.
At the moment I'm ploughing my way through the Crysis demo for the first time. That's keeping me more than entertained. :cool:
Fine thanks,
Started a new campaign with GWX gold and tried a few mods for SH4 I never played before. SH3/4 graphics are good enough for me, thanks. It's supposed to be a simulation, anyway. :03:
goldorak
03-23-10, 07:21 AM
I count myself in the group, holding out until the DRM issue is deleted. BUT curiosity is attacking this cat. I come here and read the posts daily hoping for a big announcement that's it's safe to get back into the SH waters. This might be a mistake since I've been itching to see what the flashing lights and pretty pictures look like. I am interested in this game so it's not like I wouldn't like to buy it, as a consequence my principles are warring with my curiosity lately. I even went as far as calling my local Gamestop to see if they have any copies. They have 1. I'm loosing my grip, need to be refreshed to continue the course. But only one copy in this area, must... resist. DRM Bones, DRM!!!
So how many have fallen so far? I'm at the edge, need to step away from the precipise. Only thing to see is the red of frustration, of this I'm aware. Frustration abounds if I go over.
For those tired of us wannabe SH5 skippers whinning that we're not, back out of this post and shut the door behind you. Like I said, I want to buy SH5.
I'm holding out pretty well thank you. :D
Thankfully I have other games to keep up my interest. If and when Ubisoft decides to do away with the DRM and if the game at that point is at the level of GWX or even better then I will consider buying it. For less that 10 € most probably.
Hanomag
03-23-10, 08:51 AM
Actually thanks to the release of SHV and all the hullabaloo about it here on good ole Subsim I was able to reach 10th Prestige lvl 70 on ModernWarfare 2!!! :woot:
So I guess Infinity Ward and I thank you Ubi!! LOL :haha:
I know I will eventually break down and buy SHV cause Im a big softy and I just love the title after all these years. :yep:
Im sure that GWXV Gold Diamond Titanium 4.0 will be out by then! (Just Kidding guys)
Feuer Frei!
03-23-10, 10:08 AM
Incredibly, my "anticipation/excitement" has worn off (for the moment anyways)...
i'm havin' a blast at the moment with M.E. 2 and Batman AA.....
now there is 2 awesome games! :rock:
mikeydredd
03-24-10, 10:39 AM
Still holdig out...
To me it isn't even holding out anymore. I simply don't want to buy it now.
I've just finished my second playthrough of Mass Effect 2 - absolutely brilliant. THAT is what I call true computer entertainment.
Comparing this with SHV really is chalk and cheese. In every way ME2 is far superior. And you don't need to be Einstein to work out who got my 35 quid.
You don't even need an internet connection to play!! Although if you have one it is used for what it should be - DLC.
All arguing aside UbiSoft should be hanging their heads in shame over this utter farce.
Fork 'em!
:arrgh!:
Uber Gruber
03-24-10, 12:34 PM
Well said Mikeydredd, well said indeed. :up:
Still holdig out...
To me it isn't even holding out anymore. I simply don't want to buy it now.
Yeah, I'm in agreement with you there. Hey, I'm not saying I'll never buy it but....not for a while anyway.
To me it isn't even about the DRM issue. I don't agree with it but it's Ubisoft's baby and they can put whatever protection they want on it regardless of whether or not it turns out to be a commercial mistake.
I simply don't fancy a lot of the changes, mainly to the campaign both in form and end date. Maybe it'll be modded to perfection but I'm not holding my breath. Elements of it seem similar to what they originally had slated for SH3 and I didn't fancy that very much. I understand the probable reasons for both campaign changes and the fact we have only one class of boat - even if we have several marks of the Type VII - but I simply disagree with them. The only way I would have been interested is if the boat and it's systems had been modeled to a level not seen since Falcon 4 and, again, I'm not holding my breath for a Type IX or II mod to appear any time soon.
There are changes that I like and I applaud the devs for pushing it in the direction of a command simulator which I've been wanting for years. I just haven't heard enough positive feedback to make me think this is the one, though.
Had it been produced by a smaller publisher and team such as Battlefront or Matrix games I may not have had any problems giving them money for a game I didn't entirely fancy because they make games that I love and I believe that smaller independent publishers should be supported if they make the games you want to play. Ubi are a huge company, though, and I no longer see why I should give them my money when they are not really making games I don't want. Maybe if enough of us decide to keep our wallets closed that will change. If not, never mind: I've got three Combat Missions: NATO expansion, Normandy and Afghanistan, I've got Grigsby's War in Russia and who knows what else to look forward to this year. I'm sure I'll cope.
JetSnake
03-24-10, 01:55 PM
Haven't bought it. Won't buy it. I read this forum to see if DRM has either been cracked or dealt with via patch. Could be I just don't have the passion for sub games or games in general anymore. Too much bs with this title for me to want to deal with its enormous shortcomings.
I've got Grigsby's War in Russia and who knows what else to look forward to this year. I'm sure I'll cope.
Grigsby is remaking War in Russia??? Holy Sh__! It's first iteration 'Second Front' was my first and for a long time my favourite wargame!
Grigsby is remaking War in Russia??? Holy Sh__! It's first iteration 'Second Front' was my first and for a long time my favourite wargame!
Yep....and it's looking sweet! hopefully be out by the summer.
Check it out (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=695) over at the Matrix Games forum!
Should point out that the new title is actually 'War in the East' rather than 'War in Russia' My bad - but it's kind of an easy mistake to make! It's still a remake AFAIK.
I'm currrently addicted to another Grigsby game - War in the Pacific: Admirals edition. It's one of the best games I've ever played. I put of playing it for years because of the complexity and the price but I'm so glad I bought it. It's going to be on my hard drive for years.
weeksatsea
03-24-10, 02:17 PM
That's the thing , there are other games.
I think this release has bounced a lot of people off sub simming ,sadly.
Yep....and it's looking sweet! hopefully be out by the summer.
Check it out (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=695) over at the Matrix Games forum!
Should point out that the new title is actually 'War in the East' rather than 'War in Russia' My bad - but it's kind of an easy mistake to make! It's still a remake AFAIK.
I'm currrently addicted to another Grigsby game - War in the Pacific: Admirals edition. It's one of the best games I've ever played. I put of playing it for years because of the complexity and the price but I'm so glad I bought it. It's going to be on my hard drive for years.
Lot's of great stuff by Grigsby and Koger and others, I just don't have the time anymore to sit down and really get into a good wargame what with looking after a 3 year old. SIGH. World at War is about as complex as I have time for these days, not even EU or HOI anymore.
Holding strong and will continue to hold strong until UBI or Pirates release a no DRM patch.
If UBI does it I will buy it, if the pirates do it I will buy it and then use their DRM patch legal or not.
My router likes to remind me who is really in charge every 5-10 minutes by dropping connection from anywhere to 5 seconds to 5 minutes and I will not have a game that I legitimately purchased when and when I can not play it.
theluckyone17
03-24-10, 10:13 PM
My router likes to remind me who is really in charge every 5-10 minutes by dropping connection from anywhere to 5 seconds to 5 minutes...
DRM or not, it might be time to get a new router. Then I'd use a good three pound hammer to show the old router who's in charge :sunny:.
Oh yeah... still haven't bought it. Modding Oblivion has got my attention for now.
Onkel Neal
03-24-10, 10:24 PM
My router likes to remind me who is really in charge every 5-10 minutes by dropping connection from anywhere to 5 seconds to 5 minutes and I will not have a game that I legitimately purchased when and when I can not play it.
Yeah? Sounds like your internet service provider is screwing you. Are you going to take that? You going to let them dictate when you can be online? :O: Yes, I think you will.
BlackSpot
03-24-10, 10:32 PM
"How's the hold out crowd holding up" ? Is this a minority-group hug? :woot:
Please... get grip.
theluckyone17
03-24-10, 11:39 PM
"How's the hold out crowd holding up" ? Is this a minority-group hug? :woot:
Please... get grip.
Back when the DRM was announced, I remember a few statements regarding how many folk protesting OSP would end up buying it anyway. For those of us who are still holding out, this thread allows us to announce it.
A short time ago, a few members complained about the prevalence of anti-DRM statements throughout the forum. They wanted a neat thread where we could complain, and they wouldn't have to read it. Well, guess what? Here's the thread.
So don't trivialize us or our statements.
Onkel Neal
03-24-10, 11:42 PM
Fair enough :salute:
A short time ago, a few members complained about the prevalence of anti-DRM statements throughout the forum. They wanted a neat thread where we could complain, and they wouldn't have to read it. Well, guess what? Here's the thread.
So don't trivialize us or our statements.Exactly, I'm holding out fine, I have a genuine problem here in the country of South Australia, the wideband limit is around 4.5km from the local exchange, I am at around 5.5km, most times it works sometimes not, I have tried 4 different ISP's all the same, and different computers, so the OSP/DRM stops me from purchasing but due to the bugs I don't really want it either!:down:
DRM or not, it might be time to get a new router. Then I'd use a good three pound hammer to show the old router who's in charge :sunny:.
Oh yeah... still haven't bought it. Modding Oblivion has got my attention for now.
No doubt but I have a better idea than a three pound hammer. I would prefer getting around 3 pounds of plastic explosives and placing it very close to whoever in UBI Soft first thought of the idea of this new DRM.
As for Neal, it is not my ISP that is screwing me. I have sat at the two computers that I own. One is line connect to the modem, the other my laptop is wireless connect via the router. When my laptop goes down, the internet still functions on the wired computer.
So my point still stands. People here were foolish enough to pay 50$+ to rent a game that the company dic(takes)tates when you can or when you can not play.
Apparently the price of freedom for some is 50$ or the international equivalent. Shame, freedom is priceless to me.
And yes I hate my wireless router unfortunately it is on the bottom of my priority list for monthly expenses.
Onkel Neal
03-25-10, 12:57 AM
http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mel-gibson-braveheart-photograph-c101019223-241x300.jpg
I guess I just have trouble taking people seriously when they make grandiose remarks about freedom over a game.
Yeah? Sounds like your internet service provider is screwing you. Are you going to take that? You going to let them dictate when you can be online? :O: Yes, I think you will.
Sometimes you have no choice.
Until they moved a CO within the bleeding-edge limit of DSL, I had to use 802.11 for broadband. I had a directional antenna (dish) and an amplifier on the roof pointing downtown. Luckily for me I'm high in the foothills, and had unfettered LOS to the building in question 11 miles away, and 1500' below.
OTOH, if there was a really bad rain storm, or even a moderate snow storm, I was SOL for internet.
Onkel Neal
03-25-10, 01:03 AM
I know, I'm just trying to make a point, sometimes that's just how things are. I know I am not going to change anyone's opinion. :-?
Kptlt_Lynch
03-25-10, 03:41 AM
Holding out... but really, running away.
I Posted a thread pre-release that stated I wasn't interested in what UBI was intending to release.
With all the discussions on here as to the state of SH5, I went back to online racing. I'm having tons of fun... unfortunatly my car doesn't have 'extreem speed ahead'. Pitty.
Nordmann
03-25-10, 06:10 AM
A short time ago, a few members complained about the prevalence of anti-DRM statements throughout the forum. They wanted a neat thread where we could complain, and they wouldn't have to read it. Well, guess what? Here's the thread.
So don't trivialize us or our statements.
It's funny really, they come into a thread that they know is related to a topic they do not wish to discuss, and then they complain about said thread. Strange logic some appear to be displaying.
Lanzfeld
03-25-10, 08:26 AM
I am holding out just fine.
I had some pent up anger about what this sim COULD have been that came out rather, ummm, harshly when I had a few cocktails.:dead::woot::wah:
Yeah...sorry about that.:88)
guynoir
03-25-10, 08:43 AM
I was holding out mostly because I was angry that my sub-sim loving relative wouldn't be able to play it since he had a bad modem connection, but frankly... it hasn't been that hard after seeing all the bad press and negative reactions being pointed towards SHV.
I'm A-OK with being consumed by Bad Company 2, finishing Assassin's Creed 2 (on the XBox, not the DRM'ed PC version :DL), and starting Mass Effect 2.
Whenever Ubisoft decides to get with the program and get rid of their DRM, well, I guess we'll see... They definitely lost my day-one 50 bux, though.
Jim1613
03-25-10, 08:45 AM
I ended my hold out . . . I returned my unopened SV5 after holding it for three weeks. However, I am now starting a new holdout . . . no more Ubisoft games.
les green01
03-25-10, 08:56 AM
holding out good
theluckyone17
03-25-10, 09:53 AM
http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mel-gibson-braveheart-photograph-c101019223-241x300.jpg
I guess I just have trouble taking people seriously when they make grandiose remarks about freedom over a game.
Heh. My attitude might just be due to the Irish side of me :D.
Anyway, I see your side of it, Neal. It's just a game/sim. It's just entertainment. There's nothing saying I need SH5.
On the other hand, I see it as more of a slippery slope. It's not just Ubisoft, too. More and more companies (and the government, not that I want to take this thread off topic, so let's not go there, m'kay?) seem to be dictating what I can and cannot do with their product, after I've purchased it (Oh, excuse me... after I've purchased a license to use their product). Some of the restrictions I can sympathize with. Others, not. They grate on my nerves... OSP is one of these restrictions.
I don't see it getting much better, either. Some companies are relaxing on the restrictions, some aren't, and others are getting worse. Well, this is where I'm drawing my line, and I'm gonna sit here and make myself known. It may not be much, and my efforts may not be placed in the right direction (:damn:), but it's where I've chosen to draw my line.
Quite honestly, Ubisoft's attitude with OSP is just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sorry that they're the ones who have to deal with my attitude (not that they seem to be all that worried about it), but they're the ones that slapped that last piece of straw on. They won't get my cash until they stop treating me like a copyright infringer.
TDK1044
03-25-10, 09:56 AM
Holding out just fine here. :) Silent Hunter 5 was the predicted buggy mess at release that some of us said it would be. It will follow the same pattern as its predecessors, by being heavily patched over the next six months.
DRM is the disaster we thought it would be.
The assumption of risk was there for all who purchased the game at release because the allure of having the game was just too much for them.
Well, now you have it. Some will return it, or try to. Others will stay the course in the hope that it's what they want it to be at some later date.
I will look at purchasing it at Christmas time....if I can play it offline by then. :)
Kptlt_Lynch
03-25-10, 10:32 AM
I wouldn't be holding your breath for the DRM to go anywhere.
UBI lately has made a business out of bad software and bad ideas. Their still making money, nothing points to them correcting anything if people keep putting money on the counter.
Still holding out just fine, now lost all interest in SH5 whatsoever :dead:
http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mel-gibson-braveheart-photograph-c101019223-241x300.jpg
I guess I just have trouble taking people seriously when they make grandiose remarks about freedom over a game.
:)
I certainly see your point, it is just a game, but perhaps the last 18 months is a little fresh for me, I was living in Iran as a student, so I tend to place value on many personal liberties that many others like to take for granted.
ordinarily I tend to make jokes about [that dude's] law of the internet, where you're never X posts from someone being called a Nazi, but when I think of this DRM, there are two things that immediately come to mind:
"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
It seems grandiose and a little trite (and on anything else I would think it tacky to liken computer games to crimes against humanity) but it is something that needs to be stopped now for the sake of the hobby.
Nobody will die from DRM (well maybe a few heart attacks from stress) but ubi's bone headed decision is a bad thing, something that needs to be stopped.
They introduced Star Force, it didn't affect me, so I did nothing,
They introduced secureROM, I didn't notice it, so I did nothing,
Now they introduce Uplay, and I am kicked out of my hobby.
I never downloaded a game in my life, my only crime is my place of birth.
When will it be your turn Neal?
TDK1044
03-25-10, 10:51 AM
This thread is better than 'The View'! :DL
http://blog.buckheadchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mel-gibson-braveheart-photograph-c101019223-241x300.jpg
I guess I just have trouble taking people seriously when they make grandiose remarks about freedom over a game.
LOL FREEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOMMMMM!:yeah:
But naw seriously I can't help you if you can't admit you have a problem. I suppose you would accept a mortgage term for a cheap rate that dictated when and when you could not use/live in your home?
I suppose on the side I should thank the ones who were so easy to over look the obvious flaws with SHV. If I ever do buy it atleast by then it will be working.
Anyways Neal enjoy the game, its Thursday and you shouldn't be wasting your precious SHV time posting in the forums, it means you have one more day this week to enjoy the game before it goes back down for another weekend. Gee SHV is awesome.
KiwiVenge
03-25-10, 02:14 PM
Anyways Neal enjoy the game, its Thursday which means you have one more day this week to enjoy the game before it goes back down for another weekend. Gee SHV is awesome.
For the record, I had (and kept bumped to the top) a thread on these forums last weekend asking for any reports of any server outages. There wasn't a single reply which stated there was any problems whatsoever from any players here.
Will see what this weekend brings.
Onkel Neal
03-25-10, 03:13 PM
LOL FREEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOMMMMM!:yeah:
But naw seriously I can't help you if you can't admit you have a problem. I suppose you would accept a mortgage term for a cheap rate that dictated when and when you could not use/live in your home?
I suppose on the side I should thank the ones who were so easy to over look the obvious flaws with SHV. If I ever do buy it atleast by then it will be working.
Anyways Neal enjoy the game, its Thursday and you shouldn't be wasting your precious SHV time posting in the forums, it means you have one more day this week to enjoy the game before it goes back down for another weekend. Gee SHV is awesome.
Yeah, I have a problem? :hmmm: No problem here, mate. And as a matter of fact, I did accept a mortgage (of sorts) that specified when I could occupy my property. It was called a timeshare and it was sweet.
I'll let you know if I have any trouble playing SH5 this weekend, stay tuned.
Yeah, I have a problem? :hmmm: No problem here, mate. And as a matter of fact, I did accept a mortgage (of sorts) that specified when I could occupy my property. It was called a timeshare and it was sweet.
I'll let you know if I have any trouble playing SH5 this weekend, stay tuned.
Then I was exactly right, but you are correct it isn't a "true" mortgage in the sense that I was speaking on but sure if it worked out for you great!
Standing by and waiting to see how the weekend works for ya.
Interesting thread.
A little about me to give all you good folks some perspective:
I develop software for a living and have had some of it stolen.
My brother is a director for a very large music company and head of an anti-piracy board.
About 5 years ago my wife purchased the latest DMB CD for me. Since I work on my computer all day it's only natural that I popped it in. It refused to play .... ahhh the beginning of the end.
So, I vowed that day never to buy another CD until they get their DRM in order. I don't believe they have and therefore I have only purchased one CD in the last 5 years. I listen to the radio and I listen to my collection of CDs. Although I've purchased numerous DVDs and BR disks (I like the 2 disc BRs - one disk for your BR player and 1 disk for your PC) - none recently though but that's another story.
I vowed I would not buy SH5 because of the DRM and I still have not and believe me I'm stubborn enough to last 5 years.
I vote with my wallet as that's all I can do.
I guarantee you that if no-one purchased the game they would have removed the DRM (or made it less intrusive) and they then would have sold more copies. They have shot themselves (and us as gamers' that enjoy the genre) in the foot.
We, as consumers, have the right, nay the responsibility, to protect ourselves from this. IMO, this is what separates us, as educated consumers, from sheeple.
609_Avatar
03-25-10, 08:13 PM
Interesting thread.
A little about me to give all you good folks some perspective:
I develop software for a living and have had some of it stolen.
My brother is a director for a very large music company and head of an anti-piracy board.
About 5 years ago my wife purchased the latest DMB CD for me. Since I work on my computer all day it's only natural that I popped it in. It refused to play .... ahhh the beginning of the end.
So, I vowed that day never to buy another CD until they get their DRM in order. I don't believe they have and therefore I have only purchased one CD in the last 5 years. I listen to the radio and I listen to my collection of CDs. Although I've purchased numerous DVDs and BR disks (I like the 2 disc BRs - one disk for your BR player and 1 disk for your PC) - none recently though but that's another story.
I vowed I would not buy SH5 because of the DRM and I still have not and believe me I'm stubborn enough to last 5 years.
I vote with my wallet as that's all I can do.
I guarantee you that if no-one purchased the game they would have removed the DRM (or made it less intrusive) and they then would have sold more copies. They have shot themselves (and us as gamers' that enjoy the genre) in the foot.
We, as consumers, have the right, nay the responsibility, to protect ourselves from this. IMO, this is what separates us, as educated consumers, from sheeple.
Good post and wise words! :up:
BigBANGtheory
03-26-10, 03:28 AM
I defected to the owners club today :doh:
Three things changed for me:
1. Price drop
2. Patch v1.2 news beginning to surface
3. DRM stability
So for £12, I basically know what I am getting, I am prepared to work with that and take the risk regarding future support. I believe I will get £12 worth of digital entertainment out of this product and if nothing else join the modding crew.
I also believe that with the game becoming low value so quickly none of the retailers will be ordering more and it simply means the purpose of DRM is over. With that purpose gone its just a question of time now before we see DRM stripped out.
Nisgeis
03-26-10, 04:06 AM
Then I was exactly right, but you are correct it isn't a "true" mortgage in the sense that I was speaking on but sure if it worked out for you great!
Try an analogy constructed around owning or renting a car in some way and restrictions placed on its usage. They are great.
1) The DRM isn't very intrusive and certainly not "draconic" as I've seen some people call it.
2) On the whole, the DRM solution has worked pretty well in terms of outages and things. I haven't been denied access at all since my purchase 2 weeks ago. Also, most people seem to misunderstand the purpose of DRM and why most publishers drop their DRM a few months after release.
3) I'm not a fan of DRM at all, but I understand why publishers feel forced to go down that route.
4) SH5 isn't even nearly as bad as some would like to say. It needs work, but most games of this nature do. I'd love a patch that included a bit of a performance enhancing though. :D
I defected to the owners club today :doh:
Three things changed for me:
1. Price drop
2. Patch v1.2 news beginning to surface
3. DRM stability
So for £12, I basically know what I am getting, I am prepared to work with that and take the risk regarding future support. I believe I will get £12 worth of digital entertainment out of this product and if nothing else join the modding crew.
I also believe that with the game becoming low value so quickly none of the retailers will be ordering more and it simply means the purpose of DRM is over. With that purpose gone its just a question of time now before we see DRM stripped out.
£12? That is insanely cheap for what I think is a generally good game with even better potential. Good deal for you! :up:
severniae
03-26-10, 06:52 AM
I was initially going to hold out buying until DRM was removed or at least made less invasive. Plus the fact that my internet connection goes up and down constantly (darn router!).
However, I decided last weekend that I couldn't wait any longer and bought the game from my local computer games store.
I was initially impressed, I was amazed by the level of graphics and detail, less impressed by the lack of functionality that I've come to expect of SH titles.
However, the router has started being gippy again, and as thus, I've been unable to play for the last day or so, and got so annoyed about being unable to play that I have had to resort to going onto a warez site and download a crack just to be able to play a game that I have legally bought.... How is this right? I should just be able to put the disk in the drive, and play! Simple! It seems that this stupid DRM is penalizing the paying customer. The people, such as myself, who have paid hard earned money have trouble playing the game, whilst the illegal crackers get a better game experience! Has the world gone mad?
anyway,
/rant
James.
KL-alfman
03-26-10, 07:10 AM
not a wise decision to post that stuff here! :down:
I was initially going to hold out buying until DRM was removed or at least made less invasive. Plus the fact that my internet connection goes up and down constantly (darn router!).
However, I decided last weekend that I couldn't wait any longer and bought the game from my local computer games store.
I was initially impressed, I was amazed by the level of graphics and detail, less impressed by the lack of functionality that I've come to expect of SH titles.
However, the router has started being gippy again, and as thus, I've been unable to play for the last day or so, and got so annoyed about being unable to play that I have had to resort to going onto a warez site and download a crack just to be able to play a game that I have legally bought.... How is this right? I should just be able to put the disk in the drive, and play! Simple! It seems that this stupid DRM is penalizing the paying customer. The people, such as myself, who have paid hard earned money have trouble playing the game, whilst the illegal crackers get a better game experience! Has the world gone mad?
anyway,
/rant
James.
I fully understand your frustration on this issue, but to be fair you are only projecting your feelings of disappointment in yourself for disregarding your own misgivings about how the game would work for you with a faulty router on Ubi. You knew full well what the game required of you and your current situation with regards to your router and you still went ahead with the purchase. You also knew many people had levelled complaints at Ubi regarding the polish of the product, yet you couldn't help yourself. I'm certainly not writing this with any intent of insulting or belittling you, because I really understand how annoyed you must be right now. Essentially you made a choice and had the facts on the table, and in the end it didn't work out. It was always a known outcome.
I don't particularly agree with Ubi's decision to DRM-protect SH5, since I don't like DRM in general. But I knew I took a chance when I got the game and I stand by that decision. My urge to play around with the full product became larger than my misgivings about the DRM so I went for it. It's their product to take into whatever direction they want, and it is my decision to buy into their vision or not. If I really dislike what they do I can always e-mail them letting them know what I think and try to provide them with constructive solutions that makes sense from a business perspective as well as a consumer perspective.
severniae
03-26-10, 08:25 AM
I fully understand your frustration on this issue, but to be fair you are only projecting your feelings of disappointment in yourself for disregarding your own misgivings about how the game would work for you with a faulty router on Ubi. You knew full well what the game required of you and your current situation with regards to your router and you still went ahead with the purchase. You also knew many people had levelled complaints at Ubi regarding the polish of the product, yet you couldn't help yourself. I'm certainly not writing this with any intent of insulting or belittling you, because I really understand how annoyed you must be right now. Essentially you made a choice and had the facts on the table, and in the end it didn't work out. It was always a known outcome.
I don't particularly agree with Ubi's decision to DRM-protect SH5, since I don't like DRM in general. But I knew I took a chance when I got the game and I stand by that decision. My urge to play around with the full product became larger than my misgivings about the DRM so I went for it. It's their product to take into whatever direction they want, and it is my decision to buy into their vision or not. If I really dislike what they do I can always e-mail them letting them know what I think and try to provide them with constructive solutions that makes sense from a business perspective as well as a consumer perspective.
I agree entirely, I did know that there were problems with my router before. However now the problems are more speed related, im getting incredible low speed connection for whatever reason (new router didn't help :cry:)
However, I think you missed my point. I accept it was my risk, and I'll live with the consequences. However, my point is that a cracker should never be able deliver what is essentially a better product than the bought-and-paid-for retail version. Its basically punishing people who are actually bothering to support them. And the idea that someone can improve their own (paid for) game experience by using said cracks just makes the mind boggle.
I've been a supporter of PC games ever since they were available. I've never downloaded an illegal copy and always supported game developers by buying their products. If I was buying an MMORPG, then I'd understand the need for a constant internet connection, afterall, the game is played on the internet. But for a single player game it makes no sense at all.
And it would seem all rather pointless, the game was cracked on day one! The problem is, piracy will always exist, and no fancy DRM will ever solve the problem.
The way to increase sales is not to spend vast amounts of money on developing and then maintaining a massive DRM system. The best way, is to make people actually [I]want[I] to buy the game in the first place. I remember when games came in big boxes, with lots of extras inside, full manuals, maybe a map or two etc... And it wouldn't cost that much to include all that and make people actually want to go to the store and buy these games again. At some point, the game publishers are going to realise that 100,000 pirated copies does not equate to 100,000 lost sales. Only a small percentage of those people would actually bother buying the game if there was no pirated version.
-Sev
P.s. No offence taken at-all. Good well reasoned debate is never offensive. :)
609_Avatar
03-26-10, 08:46 AM
No offense guys, but this thread is intended for those that are still "holding out" and you two obviously don't qualify any more. ;) For whatever reasons, you have decided that the game issues and DRM are no longer that big of an issue for you and that's fine. But like others who have complained about non-buyers interjecting in other threads that have nothing to do with their anti-DRM or game issues opinions this one doesn't have anything to do with your decision either. Not complaining myself, just trying to ward off more of the same and point out this is one thread that's trying to consolidate opinions of people who are not supporting the idea of buying this product without it being side tracked into other discussions. I hope you enjoy your decision/purchase! (no intended sarcasm here)
I agree entirely, I did know that there were problems with my router before. However now the problems are more speed related, im getting incredible low speed connection for whatever reason (new router didn't help :cry:)
However, I think you missed my point. I accept it was my risk, and I'll live with the consequences. However, my point is that a cracker should never be able deliver what is essentially a better product than the bought-and-paid-for retail version. Its basically punishing people who are actually bothering to support them. And the idea that someone can improve their own (paid for) game experience by using said cracks just makes the mind boggle.
I've been a supporter of PC games ever since they were available. I've never downloaded an illegal copy and always supported game developers by buying their products. If I was buying an MMORPG, then I'd understand the need for a constant internet connection, afterall, the game is played on the internet. But for a single player game it makes no sense at all.
And it would seem all rather pointless, the game was cracked on day one! The problem is, piracy will always exist, and no fancy DRM will ever solve the problem.
The way to increase sales is not to spend vast amounts of money on developing and then maintaining a massive DRM system. The best way, is to make people actually [I]want[I] to buy the game in the first place. I remember when games came in big boxes, with lots of extras inside, full manuals, maybe a map or two etc... And it wouldn't cost that much to include all that and make people actually want to go to the store and buy these games again. At some point, the game publishers are going to realise that 100,000 pirated copies does not equate to 100,000 lost sales. Only a small percentage of those people would actually bother buying the game if there was no pirated version.
-Sev
P.s. No offence taken at-all. Good well reasoned debate is never offensive. :)
I agree, and thank you for your reasoned response! I think one issue is that the publishers have a very pragmatic way of looking at DRM in general. The main issue for them isn't protecting the game for it's entire lifespan, but delay the leak of the software onto the pirate scene long enough to keep possible customers from getting the pirated version before the game is available to buy in stores. After that it doesn't really matter to them if you use a crack to circumvent the DRM as long as you paid for it. That is also the main reason many publishers drop DRM from their games after a couple of months. It looks like they listened to their consumers and did something they had asked for. It also brings in some extra revenue from those honest consumers that really hated the DRM version but had enough integrity to stay away from the pirated version and finally forks out the dosh when the DRM is dropped.
No offense guys, but this thread is intended for those that are still "holding out" and you two obviously don't qualify any more. ;) For whatever reasons, you have decided that the game issues and DRM are no longer that big of an issue for you and that's fine. But like others who have complained about non-buyers interjecting in other threads that have nothing to do with their anti-DRM or game issues opinions this one doesn't have anything to do with your decision either. Not complaining myself, just trying to ward off more of the same and point out this is one thread that's trying to consolidate opinions of people who are not supporting the idea of buying this product without it being side tracked into other discussions. I hope you enjoy your decision/purchase! (no intended sarcasm here)
Sorry. :oops:
Onkel Neal
03-26-10, 09:22 AM
Sorry. :oops:
Yeah, you and me need to take this into the "Having fun playing SH5 and making the best of it" thread ;)
Nordmann
03-26-10, 09:24 AM
Yeah, you and me need to take this into the "Having fun playing SH5 and making the best of it" thread ;)
Do we actually have one of those yet?
Sailor Steve
03-26-10, 09:30 AM
Do we actually have one of those yet?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164941
Of course it's clear down on page 10, and ten days since anyone last posted in it, so...?:sunny:
severniae
03-26-10, 09:32 AM
haha, My appologies. I'll quit with the hijacking.
Sailor Steve
03-26-10, 09:34 AM
It's okay, sooner or later everybody does it...except me.
Okay, including me.
Okay, especially me.:D
Onkel Neal
03-26-10, 09:35 AM
haha, My appologies. I'll quit with the hijacking.
Lol, I was mostly joking, of course :)
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.