[REL] More realistic periscope [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Arclight

03-18-10, 05:56 PM

Changes some values for the periscopes to correspond to historical values;

Attack scope magnification: 1.5x/6x (low power/high power), stock was 1x/4x.
Attack scope elevation: -15/+20 (in degrees), stock was -10/+20.

Observation scope magnification: 1.5x/6.x, stock was 1x/4x.
Observation scope elevation: -10/+90, stock was -10/+80.

Changes attributes for all optics to be as authentic as possible.

Made another version that includes OPCF.

Range can be measured with scopes:

target height x 1000 / measured mils (in low power)
target height x 4000 / measured mils (in high power)

Say a target has a mast that stands 30m above the water. Put the horizontal crosshair on the waterline and measure the top of the mast on the scale. Say the measured height is 20 mils in low power:

30 x 1000 / 20 = 30.000 / 20 = 1500m

80 mils in high power, same target:

30 X 4000 / 80 = 120.000 / 80 = 1500m

Mils can be read from the horizontal bars, the "10" mark in attack scope is 100Mil. Took some liberty to make those marks more easily spotted, since the numbers from the stock game still show up in the wrong place.

Credit: To Hitman for the excellent illustrations. Everyone that contributed in this and the "graticule thread". To Elanaiba for his "freecam zoom" mod, which's changes have been incorporated into the .cam file (no more separate versions, too much clutter). To CCIP for his freecam tweaks.

Extract into JSGME "MODS" folder and enable 1 of 4 versions; OPCF adds a coloured overlay to the observation periscope.

DOWNLOAD (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1624) (565KB)

TDW UI package:

DOWNLOAD (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1708) (525KB)

-------------------------

MRP patch pack

Since the aspect ratio of the system the game is played on affects the accuracy of the periscope reticule, "More realistic periscope" needs patches to correct this.

Pack includes patches for these aspect ratios:

16:9 (ratio=1.7778)
25:16 (ratio=1.5625)
5:3 (ratio=1.6667)
5:4 (ratio=1.25)
85:48 (ratio=1.7708)
8:5 (ratio=1.6)

4:3 is supported by default.

If you need to determine which aspect ratio you're running, divide the first number of the resolution by the second number. Then compare the outcome to the ratios listed above and look for a match. Ratios are rounded to the 4th decimal.

Should you have any questions or problems, or if you have an unsupported aspect ratio, please comment in this thread.

DOWNLOAD (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1658) (31KB)

Note: this is designed to be enabled as a mod. JSGME will display an overwrite warning when enabling this after enabling MRP. This is normal and needed to correct the file in need of alteration.

Make sure you do in fact enable MRP first, before trying to patch it. ;)

-.-. .... .- -. --. . .-.. --- --.

v1.2
- updated masks to look more authentic
- tuned angular angle to make reticle usuable

v1.3
- include CCIP's freecam tweaks
- binocular 8x zoom
- further enhanced accuracy for measuring with reticle
- darker masks (light version also available)
- version compatible with TDW UI
- thicker shadow around egde (looked jaggy at some aspect ratios)
- circular UZO and binocs view
- changed reticle on attack scope, essentialy identical to obs. scope

Arclight

03-18-10, 05:58 PM

Normal; attack scope, observation scope, obs. + OPCF and UZO respectively:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_STOCKPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=STOCKPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_STOCKObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=STOCKObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_STOCKOPCFObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=STOCKOPCFObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)ht tp://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_STOCKTBT_1024.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=STOCKTBT_1024.jpg)
(Click to enlarge)

Light version, same order as before:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_LIGHTPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=LIGHTPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_LIGHTObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=LIGHTObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_LIGHTOPCFObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=LIGHTOPCFObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)ht tp://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_LIGHTTBT_1024.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=LIGHTTBT_1024.jpg)
(Click to enlarge)

ReallyDedPoet

03-18-10, 06:00 PM

Nice, I'll try this out later :yep:

Safe-Keeper

03-18-10, 06:08 PM

Well, it certainly will improve gameplay to be able to see your targets better:03:.

Excellent job either way.

Ablemaster

03-18-10, 06:13 PM

Excellent job Arclight, both realistic and immersive, thankyou. Much better than stock.

Arclight

03-18-10, 06:15 PM

Being something purely focused on realism, I doubt it will garner much popularity though. Problems are that you lose the reticules, and that a lot of mods mess with "cameras.dat" causing this to take a backseat most of the time. :hmmm:

Mav87th

03-18-10, 06:36 PM

Hitman made some REALY good grading graphics for NYGM and GWX that has the real scope gradings. He then also calibrated the camera.dat file to show the correct image.

One question Arclight:

Did you calibrate the scope linier field of view through the Angular Angle factor in the camera.dat file ?

Here is my own camera.dat mod showing the Emden Light Cruiser (146 meters long) at a distance of 1000 meters from the periscope. It so happens, that the scope in x6 has a 9° Angular Field of View and a Linier Field of View of 147 meters for a distance of 1000 meters.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/Mav87th/Silent%20Hunter%205/SH5Img2010-03-19_001605.jpg

As you see the Emden fills the entire scope from side to side with its 146 meters, witch it should.

This is adjusted with the "Angular Angle" factor/setting under Camera Parameters. I sat mine (after some tests forth and back) to 82 and got the above result. Next step will be to incorporate Hitman's old realistic graduations for the scopes. But I'm not really strong in that part of the Mod circus......

Able72

03-19-10, 09:54 PM

Mav87th

03-20-10, 04:03 AM

Try this thread

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164512

thats the mod i have installed for working TDC dials.

Arclight

03-20-10, 06:17 AM

No, I didn't tune the angular field. That's exactly the question I've been repeating for a bit: how do you calculate it? :lol:

Don't know how to determine proper placement for the marks either, for that matter. :hmmm:

Arclight

03-22-10, 03:25 AM

Updated link, made a few changes:

Observation scope zoom is the same as attack periscope (1.54->1.5 and 6.1->6).

Reworked mask to incorporate the reticule which disappeared after changing zoom. Purely cosmetic though, at least it looks the part.

Added a version integrating the colour filter from OPCF; 4 versions in all:

MRP
MRP+Freecam zoom
MRP+OPCF
MRP+OPCF+Freecam zoom

Credit for the freecam tweaks go to Elanaiba. :salute:

Striving for realistic optics, much like the ones Hitman did for SH3. For the moment, other similar projects are underway and I have my own as well, so I'll leave it at this for now. If the others don't work out or something, or other projects are complete, I'll pick this back up.

Previews in post #2 updated.

The General

03-22-10, 06:39 AM

If you're striving for realistic optics, then the Attack scope would be darker to look through than the Observation scope. The head was smaller and thus it let less light in. This became apparent particularly at night. I have seen this simulated before with a slighty darkened mask on the attack scope. Should be pretty easy to implement for someone with your talent :03:

Arclight

03-22-10, 06:59 AM

Aye, about 41% light transmission for the observation scope and even less for attack scope. :know:

Also smaller exit pupil on attack scope, so maybe add a little more shadow to restrict vision further. :hmmm:

Little busy at the moment, but will keep it in mind. :yep:

Mav87th

03-22-10, 04:05 PM

Ahhhh sorry Arclight - i thought you knew about the math behind it.

You can not per se calculate the value you need to put into camera.dat, but you can calculate what the Linier Field of View need to be at a certain range.
Thats what i did with the Emden Cruiser.

A is the Angular Field of View (for the scope thats 9° in high power fx.)

17,45 x A x 1000 = Linier FOV in mm at a range of 1000 meter

aka 17,45 x A = Liner FOV at 1000 meters

so in high power and a range of 1000 meters the scope need to cover 157 meters from the left edge to the right edge of the scope. That fits with an Emden Cruisers length.

I know that you CAN somehow calculate the value to put into the Camera.dat, but i have to "dig in" to find that. I allways found it easier to just adjust it to fit.

Ringy

03-22-10, 04:06 PM

Thanks makes a noticable difference excellent. :)

Snall request : any chance you could add more zoom to the binoculars as well ?

Thanks in advance,

Ringy.

Frederf

03-22-10, 04:30 PM

The UZO should have a single vertical centerline and nothing else. OBS or UZO shouldn't have stadimeter. I think UZO is 7x or 8x binocular.

Arclight

03-22-10, 08:14 PM

Uzo is 7x, yes. Noted on the reticule, knew about it, but hadn't thought of implementing yet. :doh:

Thanks for the example Mav, gives me something to work with. Had been sketching out a few triangles, but my pythagoras ain't what it used to be. :88)

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 09:17 PM

Took a quick look. It looks much better with the degree lines and the coloured filters. Its getting closer all the time to the real thing.

Arclight

03-23-10, 01:36 AM

Step by step. :yep:

Got my mathskills back up to scratch, think I'll do some calibrating.

Here's some samples of remade masks, sans markings, to give an impression of the shading and brightness. Let me know what you think.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_TBT_1024.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=TBT_1024.jpg)

Obs scope, att scope and uzo respectively.

Arclight

03-23-10, 02:18 AM

Mav, CL Emden is listed at 185M. CL Dido is listed as 156M though, gonna try it with that. ;)

Frederf

03-23-10, 03:39 AM

Arc, good start. I suggest playtesting during minimal lighting conditions. Marginal lighting (dusk, overcast) should make attack peri. impossible to use, observation peri. difficult. Night should make observation peri. not usable (unless it's full moon or something).

Mav87th

03-23-10, 05:00 AM

HMMM - Emden is in the Official guide listed at 156 meters length, same on its wiki page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Emden
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Emden)
Where did you find the other length ?

Ok i found this post in the old SH-4 mod forum threads.....

I haven't had time to try this, but here's how I would have done it (and how I have done it for Armed Assault). If you open the scope texture, you can count the pixels between each tick. The one I just measured has 68 pixels between each group of four ticks. If each tick is 15 MoA, then the scope is obviously scaled for 68/(4*0.25) = 68 pixels per degree in high magnification. High magnification is 6x, so the base magnification is then 68/6 = 11.33 pixels per degree at unity. The texture width is 1024 pixels, so the base field of view should be 1024/11.33 = 90.35 degrees. This number goes in AngularAngle.
so in theory (mind I never did this my self)

Texture size / pixels pr degree / zoom = angularangle parameter number

I tried to use the math on your graphic ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024.dds

measured pixels from 15° left of center mark to 15° right of center mark was 454 pixels (for 30°)

thats 15,1 pixel pr. degree. So 1024/15.1 = 67,815

dividing that with x1,5 for the zoom gives 45,21 witch should then be the AngularAngle value used for the Observations scope camera setting.

for the attack scope graphic I also got 15,1 pixel per degree, ending up with the same angular angle value of 45,21.

I tried it and it did NOT work as it should - the graphics must be changed in size somewhere.

Repeated checks in game showed me that your camara.dat file should have an AngularAngle value of 95,0 (attack and observations perí) to work as you want. But the viable whole in your periscope is too big (or the ticks are too close together - there should be 38 tics over the diameter of the hole if each tick is 1° in x1,5 zoom. )

image otw soon.

If i were you I would enlarge the "hole" and remake the tics.

Arclight

03-23-10, 06:22 AM

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 06:48 AM

I uploaded some screens of what it looks like in game:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/687/scope002.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5793/scope003.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5964/scope004.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3996/scope005.jpg

Mav87th

03-23-10, 07:20 AM

I am doing just that, but being a bleeping perfectionist, drawing the bleeping graticules is a bleeping pain in the bleep. Taking a little bleeping time... http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/thpanic.gif

Should work once done though, just a little fine tuning on the angular thingy to get it perfect. :)

* and shiplength I got from the .cfg files in the "Sea" folder. It better be accurate. :stare:

Heh - ill just bleeping have to wait a little then :know:

im not sure the shiplength from the .cfg file is of any use other then displaying it self in the recognitions manual......

The real ship was 156 meters long, and the model of it looks ok. The Dido should also be 156 meters long thats correct both in the old SH-3 manual as well as on Wikipedia.

Arclight

03-23-10, 07:28 AM

So the Dido is right? That's a bleeping relief. :rotfl2:

Sneak peak
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_sneak.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=sneak.jpg)

The General

03-23-10, 09:55 AM

Mav87th

03-23-10, 11:42 AM

Arclight

03-23-10, 01:46 PM

Wrote a lot of stuff, but SubSim threw me a curveball. :shifty:

So;

Changes attributes for both scopes and UZO to be as authentic as possible.

Made another version that includes OPCF.

Technically a beta since it has not been extensively tested, but I'm confident it is a proper release.

Range can be measured with scopes: mast height x 1000 / Mils = range.

Mils can be read from the horizontal bars, the "10" mark in attack scope is 100Mil. Took some liberty to make those marks more easily spotted, since the numbers from the stock game still show up in the wrong place.

Credit: To Hitman for the excellent illustrations. Everyone that contributed in this and the "graticule thread". To Elanaiba for his "freecam zoom" mod, which's changes have been incorporated into the .cam file (no more separate versions, too much clutter).

Extract into JSGME "MODS" folder and enable 1 of 2 versions; OPCF adds a coloured overlay to the observation periscope.

Download link updated, and HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1624) .

Edit: Darnit, always forget:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5-1.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5-1.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5-1.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5-1.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_TBT_1024-1.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=TBT_1024-1.jpg)

Arclight

03-23-10, 01:49 PM

Arclight it looks like your going for the gold medal :yeah:

Just now i received an email from Carl Zeiss AG with a positive respond on a request for help finding info on the graticles in the periscopes.

I'm looking forward to see what that will bring.
Cool, wonder what murky secrets will be revealed. :lol:
Thanks makes a noticable difference excellent. :)

Snall request : any chance you could add more zoom to the binoculars as well ?

Thanks in advance,

Ringy.
Sorry, missed that question.

Not gonna happen if they didn't have higher magnification historically. Striving for the real thing here. ;)

Dowly

03-23-10, 02:01 PM

Hey, Arc. I got a job for ya. :O:

If possible, could you include, as extra, binocs & UZO as "one eye" view? You know, as you see things in real life watching thru binocs, one round thingamaling instead of two?

Arclight

03-23-10, 02:09 PM

Excellent, hadn't thought of that yet. :oops:

Binocs might be tricky, they follow a different formula than the other optics, but I'm gonna figure something out. Angular stuff for UZO isn't calibrated yet, but it's still at stock zoom (correct).

Look for it in 1.3. :salute:

Dowly

03-23-10, 02:13 PM

Coolio! Thanks! :salute:

Not many games make the binocs like they should, can't remember any other than WWIIOL that does it as should. :hmmm:

Mav87th

03-23-10, 02:14 PM

Those graphics are just top prima stuff Arclight. And the mills should be very easy to calibrate the AngularAngle for.

(target length x 1000) / mill marks = distance to target

Dido/Emden classes @ 156 meters length placed at 1000 meters :

(156 x 1000) / Mills = 1000

ergo those ships should cover 156 mills when at 1000 meters distance. Starting the calibration of that now...

Hmm well the Bino's are x7 and the Angular Angle should be findable in some of all the optical forums i have plowed my way through. Ill come up with something Arclight.

Mav87th

03-23-10, 02:28 PM

Some Binocular info...

Pressure Night Sight Binoculars
30. The binoculars were manufactured by Carl Zeiss, Visnna, and bear the numbers: U.D.F. 7x50
309
170955
31. The measured optical data: Angular field 7° 25' Magnification 7.1 x. Exit pupil 7 mm.
32. The focus is fixed, being set at --).8 dioptre in the centre of the field. 33. The central definition is good provided the observer has normal eyesight and a reasonable amount of accommodation. 34. The definition over the field of view is also up to a good standard.
35. The light at the side of the field is cut down severely by the optical parts.
36. Measured light transmission:
Right limb 67.0 percent. Left Limb 67.2 per cent.
37. Internal surfaces of the lenses are treated with Cryolite or some similar substance.
38. No coloured glasses are embodied in the instrument.
39. The weight of the instrument is
Binocular 12 1/2 lbs. Stand 9 3/4 lbs.
Note. The weight of Pattern 1900C binocular with a rubber jacket is 3 lbs. 13 ozs.
40. A graticule is provided in the right limb. It consists of a vertical line which gradually thickens from the centre to the outside of the field. The line is provided with night illumination by a self-luminous placed in a compartment to the right of the graticule. There is an external lever which controls the illumination from "hell" (Bright" to "dunkel" (Dark). In the bright position the illumination is visible after 2 to 3 minutes' observation in the dark and plainly visible after 10 minutes. In the dark position it is just cut out completely.
41. The inter-ocular adjustment is effected by separating the limbs about the hinge by means of a bar and nuts with right- and left-handed threads. The amount of adjustment provided is from 54 to 74 mm.

Miscellaneous

Luminous Paint
The luminous paint is very good. It is visible immediately the lights are extinguished and so placed as to make it possible to move about without trouble. After a few minutes objects become visible.

Arclight

03-23-10, 02:32 PM

You take your readings from low-power zoom normally, don't forget to adapt your formula for high-power zoom. ;)

Damn, forgot about the reticule in the UZO, thought it was clear. Sources can contradict on that a bit. More concerned with the actual binocular though, they need a rework more desperately. :hmmm:

Mav87th

03-23-10, 05:34 PM

OK !!!

Done with the calibration of the AngularAngle for Obs. and Att. Periscopes :salute:

OBSOBSOBS

apparently there is a difference in the AngularAngle usage when using different resolutions in the game......
more to follow

I use 1900x1200 and have to use the following: Both should be set with the value 81,5 - I have a corrected dat if you want it pr. mail. I have left my MSN details for you in a PM, that might be easier to finish up the mod.

One thing - the Obs.periscope is placed to far to the right. It needs to be centered like the attack periscope.

They are Beautifull graphics :salute:

Arclight

03-23-10, 06:02 PM

For the record, to avoid confusion: it was already calibrated, and placement was never changed. We seem to agree it's a screen ratio issue, not sure what's going on yet. :hmm2:

Arclight

03-23-10, 07:21 PM

Yep, different aspect ratio ruins it completely. :shifty:

And since everyone switched over to LCD but me, that means only I can use it. Current version will work wonders on 4:3 screens, others will have to wait for a version that's tailored to their aspect ratio.

Mav87th

03-23-10, 07:27 PM

Arclight

03-24-10, 01:50 PM

Aye, thanks Mav. :salute:

Working on patches, got 1 for 16:9 and continuing. I'll put them up in a pack once complete.

Arclight

03-24-10, 05:53 PM

Since the aspect ratio of the system the game is played on affects the accuracy of the periscope reticule, "More realistic periscope" needs patches to correct this.

Pack includes patches for these aspect ratios:

16:9 (ratio=1.7778)
25:16 (ratio=1.5625)
5:3 (ratio=1.6667)
5:4 (ratio=1.25)
85:48 (ratio=1.7708)
8:5 (ratio=1.6)

4:3 is supported by default.

If you need to determine which aspect ratio you're running, divide the first number of the resolution by the second number. Then compare the outcome to the ratios listed above and look for a match. Ratios are rounded to the 4th decimal.

Should you have any questions or problems, or if you have an unsupported aspect ratio, please comment in this thread.

DOWNLOAD (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1658) (31KB)

Note: this is designed to be enabled as a mod. JSGME will display an overwrite warning when enabling this after enabling MRP. This is normal and needed to correct the file in need of alteration.

Make sure you do in fact enable MRP first, before trying to patch it. ;)

Hitman

03-25-10, 09:34 AM

Just now i received an email from Carl Zeiss AG with a positive respond on a request for help finding info on the graticles in the periscopes.

I exchanged some emails with the director of their museum last year. Looks like they had even less info than me in some areas :-? due to all their documentation having been taken by the allies after WW2. They were however collecting lots of data and much interested in expanding their museum, so it's a matter of time till they have all info. I know positively that there are microfilms with detailed reports (including pictures) of examination of german periscopes after WW2 in US national archives, but you need to go there and browse them, they are not in the internet.

For the record, I was also in contact with the curators of U505, U995 and Vessikko and they also have almost no info, nor are the periscopes installed in those subs longer operational. You just see black when looking through their periscopes. :damn:

gutted

03-25-10, 09:50 AM

Cool thanks.

I've been eyeballing this waiting for 16:10 widescreen support (.ie 8:5).

I tried the version with the tinted observation scope.. but i couldn't see squad at night time.

Using the plain version now.

gutted

03-25-10, 10:03 AM

Mav87th

03-25-10, 11:45 AM

Yep Gutted - its mutiplied with 4.

So if the measurement, like the distance from Deck to top of superstructure on Bismarck is in this image (in real life that height were 27 meters), are 108 mills then the range is:
((the REAL length or height of the object x 1000) / number of mills) x4

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/Mav87th/Silent%20Hunter%205/bismarck.jpg

eg. from the reading

27 x 1000 / 108 x 4 = 1000 meters

Arclight

03-25-10, 04:21 PM

So if if each tick mark in the obs periscope is 10mils in lower power..

what are they in high power?

.25?

.ie 1.5x / 6x = .25?

is that correct?

And why aren't there the same amount of tick marks in the attack scope?
Alternatively just read them as "10" in HP as well, but instead of 'object size' x 1000 / mils, it becomes 'object size' x 4000 / mils.

Attack scope matches the illustration; it's that way because to the best of my knowlegde that's what it looked like.

And yeah, they're fairly dark. You're going to hate the new version. :lol:

Which reminds me; Hitman, were the markings in attack scope in degrees or radian? :06:

wildcards

03-25-10, 05:16 PM

conus00

03-25-10, 05:31 PM

@ Arclight how did you achieve the yellow-greenish tint to the lens? Is it something done to the dds file or is it somewhere in data files?

I would like to replicate that for my mod.

Arclight

03-25-10, 05:34 PM

Quick question to clear up my own confusion.
When measuring range, do you do this from sea level or from ships hull?

I've seen both happening in tutorials and screen shots, so currently I'm a but confused. When do you use what or are both valid?Doesn't matter, you can measure anything you know the height of. You could even use the men on deck, or a lifeboat, gunturret, whatever.

However, if using the mastheight from the rec manual, measure from the waterline. That'll probably be the most used source since it's the only one provided with the game. ;)
@ Arclight how did you achieve the yellow-greenish tint to the lens? Is it something done to the dds file or is it somewhere in data files?

I would like to replicate that for my mod.
Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5.dds in data\menu\skins\german\gui\layout.

Added a layer to the image, pasted it with a highly transparent color, moved layer to bottom and merged. Saved as .dds with DXT5.

conus00

03-25-10, 05:39 PM

Would you mind to elaborate on that?
Like RGB value of the color of the layer, the amount of opacity etc?

Thanks!

Arclight

03-25-10, 05:42 PM

H 39
S 100
V 100
R 255
G 166
B 0

Opacity 12,5%

:salute:

conus00

03-25-10, 05:43 PM

Great, thanks! let me try it...

conus00

03-25-10, 09:20 PM

^Worked great thanks for help Arclight.:salute:

Mav87th

03-27-10, 03:55 AM

Arclight congrats on one of the best mods released to date!! :salute:

The graphics are stunning and precise, and the history has been taken into account to the furthest extend. In my opinion you could easily call the mod "Most Realistic Periscopes" 'cus they are the most realistic produced.

This mod should be made sticky if possible....

Bilge_Rat

03-27-10, 06:07 AM

gutted

03-27-10, 07:02 AM

could someone help me with the math, I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

I have the mod installed w. the 8:5 patch, since my res is 1920x1200.

I am using the mission that came with the BARF mod.

measured from the map, I am 1,500 meters from a Cimarron tanker and a Liberty Cargo.
At 6x, from attack scope, I read about 3.5 horizontal bars fom waterline to top of highest mast.

Using the enhanced recognition manual mod, I have a mastheight of 29.5 for the Cimarron, 27.5 for the cargo.

29.5 x 1,000 = 29,500, divided by 3.5 =about 8,500 :hmmm:

The horizontal bars in the attack scope are in 2's. Not sure why he didn't add the same amount of ticks as the obs scope.

So 3.5 marks is actually 7. Also, if you are going to just divide by the tick marks, dont use "Mast Height x 1000".. use "Mast Height x 100" instead. If you use 1000 you have to multiply the ticks by 10 (each tick is 10 mils).

These two formulas give the same results:
(Mast Height x 1,000 ) / (TickMarks x 10) = Range
(Mast Height x 100) / TickMarks = Range

Also, for x6 zoom.. you have to multiply by 4.

( (29.5 x 100) / 7 ) * 4 = 1,685

So bascially you just drop the decimal and add enogh zero's so its 4 digits...
29.5 = 2950

(2950 / 7) * 4 = 1,6850

or you could do like was said earlier for high power and factor in the x4 in your first multiplier.
(29.5 X 400) / 7 = 1,685

pretty easy.

Bilge_Rat

03-27-10, 08:18 AM

Danke, works perfectly now. :|\\

reaper7

03-27-10, 08:36 AM

Hi Arclight, PM sent. :up:

Mav87th

03-27-10, 10:58 AM

The horizontal bars in the attack scope are in 2's. Not sure why he didn't add the same amount of ticks as the obs scope.

Because that's how the scopes looked like...

Bilge_Rat

03-27-10, 02:40 PM

So after having spent some time testing out the scopes in a variety of settings and comparing with the exact range as calculated with map updates "on", I can say, the ranges are right on (running at 1920x1200 w. 8:5 patch). The range as calculated from the scope is usually within 10% of the real range, although that difference has more to do with my ability to guesstimate the actual mast height against the horizontal bars.

the formulas which I use are the following:

observation scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 100 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 400 / horizontal bars = Range

Attack scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 50 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 200 / horizontal bars = Range

excellent work. :salute:

reaper7

03-27-10, 03:05 PM

Bilge_Rat

03-27-10, 03:13 PM

Are you finding that the mast heights match those from the Cfg file the same ones as I placed onto the Recognition manual.
If so then it shows that the stadimeter is where the problem is not the stats reguarding use of the stadimeter.

reaper7, I have been relying only on the mast heights as shown in your enhanced recognition manual.

I am convinced there is a problem with the stadimeter.

Arclight

03-27-10, 04:58 PM

It's the Stadi that's broken, but not all the numbers in the rec manual are correct. The exceptions seem only to be for length and draft though. :hmmm:

As a side note; the real thing was never used at high-power to measure range, and initially I didn't set out to make them usefull at that magnification: consider it a bonus that you can in the game. ;)

I will further finetune the .cam files, for all aspect ratios, to make them more accurate. Not that there's anything wrong at this point, but still.

I'll post some samples of the new masks in a bit, on which I'd like some feedback. Personally I think they are too dark, but it should be closer to the real thing. :hmm2:

Thank you Mav, for the assistance. ;)

Arclight

03-27-10, 06:31 PM

Thumbs; click to enlarge:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5v2.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5v2.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5v2.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5v2.jpg)http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/th_ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5OPCFv2.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/?action=view&current=ObsPeriscope_Mask_1024_SH5OPCFv2.jpg)Attac k scope, observation scope and obs.scope + OPCF respectively.

Tell me what you think; too dark, shadows along the edge or prefer clear edge with gradual shadow (like current version). Any comments are welcome. :)

PL_Andrev

03-28-10, 02:41 AM

Please put at the first post the version number and changelog to follow progress of your mod, please!
:yeah:

Arclight

03-28-10, 03:10 AM

Changelog? Jeesh, busting my balls man, busting my balls. :O:

I'll update thread and download titles to reflect current version, at least then you know when you're lagging behind. See what I can do about those changelogs. ;)

kylania

03-28-10, 03:12 AM

Does the "freecam zoom" thing include the "closer to the boat" cam fix CCIP did?

These changes:

-Camera clip distance reduced to 0.25m (allows camera to get much closer to submarines/ships)
-Terrain clipping distance removed (free camera can pass through shore buildings and coastlines)

Arclight

03-28-10, 03:18 AM

Nope, is just Elanaiba's zoomable exterior cam. Which reminds me, should ask CCIP if I can integrate his tweaks with this. A lot of people are using it apparently and isn't compatible afaik. :hmmm:

Bilge_Rat

03-28-10, 06:30 AM

It's the Stadi that's broken, but not all the numbers in the rec manual are correct. The exceptions seem only to be for length and draft though. :hmmm:

as long as the height works, that's fine. The ship length method is only accurate at a 90 degree AOB. Plus, once you start actually looking at the numbers in the rec manual and comparaing them to what you see on the screen, instead of just blindly relying on the stadi, any number that is off will stick out.

As a side note; the real thing was never used at high-power to measure range, and initially I didn't set out to make them usefull at that magnification: consider it a bonus that you can in the game. ;)

I had read that because of the water pressure/resistance, the perisopes which are just long tubes, would vibrate very noticably at 6x which would not make it practical for anything other than pinpointing and identifying the target. There was also problems with lenses fogging up, getting scratched.

It would be neat if we could eventually get all that into the game...not that I am suggesting extra work though..:arrgh!:

Thank you Mav, for the assistance. ;)

thanks everyone involved in the project, great work guys.

Hitman

03-28-10, 07:48 AM

Tell me what you think; too dark, shadows along the edge or prefer clear edge with gradual shadow (like current version). Any comments are welcome. :)

The real attack periscope with its thin head had a noticeable image quality (Blurr and colour) deterioration at the sides of the field of view. Aproximately 1/4 at each side would degrade the colour to blueish/turquoise, while at the centre the image was perfect.

You can achieve this effect by extending the shadow in the mask to that 1/4, and painting the main graphic dark blue in that external rim, and black in the centre. This will cause that when the mask appears in the game, you see the edges deteriorating to blue and blurred, and the centre simply with lower light level.

because of the water pressure/resistance, the perisopes which are just long tubes, would vibrate very noticably at 6x which would not make it practical for anything other than pinpointing and identifying the target. There was also problems with lenses fogging up, getting scratched.

That's pretty much the reason for the twisted cable that runs along the upper part of the tube. It changes the vibration frequency of the tube and makes it move less. In any case, yes, high speeds would mean vibration and bad image. But no captain would anyway use the scope at high speed, as the big wake would be a complete give away of his position.

One more thing about the attack scope: Because it was used sparingly and with maximum stealth (The captain would make it pop in and out the water quickly like a cork) in quick glances, the markings are simplified (1 mark per 2 mils) and overall the design is intended to simply help the intuitive feeling of proportions by the observer. It was never intended to be used as a detailed observation tool, nor to plot an enemy attack with exact observations. The commander sat there and gave quick glances to control the advance of the target in the last and closest stages of the approach, eyeballing range, AOB and speed if it had not ben already determined during the previous overhaul maneuver at surface.

In my experience, and using my own custom optics mod in SH3, once you have enough practice with this system it becomes very effective and intuitive for short ranges attacks (As will always be the submerged ones). But it requires that the user has contantly the same mod installed and monitor used, to get used to the size of the ships as presented in the screen. When you are good enough at it, however, the feeling is AMAZINGLY satisfactory:o :yeah:

Mav87th

03-28-10, 08:11 AM

Here is a little info from the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual about how to figure out the correct height to measure with the stadimeter (or in this case the graticule's)

Basicaly count the number of decks and multiply them with 8 ft. (or 2.5 meters) then measure the same decks with the graticule's you know have an estimated height of the decks and a graticule count and can then calculate the distance the usual way. Say there are 3 visible decks above the deck you then measure with the graticule from deck to the top of the 3rd deck.

Estimated real height is 3x2.5 meters
Graticules says fx. 50 (in x6 zoom)

range is then :

7.5M x 1000 / 50 * 4

= 1500 meters

The method can also be used to "check" a stadimeter reading of range for gross errors.

(g) When radar ranges cannot be obtained the Approach Officer must rely upon his ability to correctly estimate the height of the funnel or masthead, or other prominent mark on the ship's structure above the water line. If the target ship can be properly identified an accurate value may be obtained from intelligence information supplied the ship. If this is not available the
following procedure will he of assistance:

(1) Count or estimate the number of decks that are seen above the main deck.
(2) Add to this figure the approximate number of deck heights equal to the observed freeboard.
(3) Multiply the total by eight to determine the height of the top of the bridge structure above the visible waterline.
(4) Using height of bridge structure above the visible waterline as a yardstick, approximate the masthead height. The masthead heights of merchant ships are on the average about 2.1 times the bridge height (above waterline). A masthead height which appears to be shorter than normal will be about 1.7 to 1.8 times the bridge height, while one which appears to be higher than normal is approximately 2.2 to 23 times the bridge height.
(5) Funnel heights may be estimated by approximating the number of deck heights of the funnel which is seen above the top of the bridge structure and adding this height to the bridge structure height.
(6) At extreme ranges it must be remembered that the waterline is below the horizon. This necessitates estimating the position of the waterline.

(h) The following points should be kept in mind in height determination:
(1) Masthead heights may be purposely altered by the enemy to cause inaccuracies in periscope ranges.
(2) Tops of masts may be camouflaged in such a manner as to be invisible under average visibility conditions at any except short ranges.
(3) Funnel height is normally sufficient to insure that the smoke which is blown in the direction of the bridge by a tail wind will pass well over the bridge.
(4) Coal burners require taller funnels to insure adequate draft.
(5) Funnels of modern vessels having forced draft do not require as tall a funnel as older vessels without forced draft.
(6) Diesel propelled ships require no draft. Funnels are normally short, are not required, and generally have such dimensions as to provide a good appearance on the ship.

Regardless of the methods employed by the individual Approach Officer, skill in estimating masthead heights, and ability to obtain accurate ranges can be acquired and maintain only by constant practice. Even when radar ranges are available daring an approach the Approach Officer should also obtain telemeter ranges as a means of improving and maintaining his skill.

Bilge_Rat

03-28-10, 08:30 AM

In my experience, and using my own custom optics mod in SH3, once you have enough practice with this system it becomes very effective and intuitive for short ranges attacks (As will always be the submerged ones). But it requires that the user has contantly the same mod installed and monitor used, to get used to the size of the ships as presented in the screen. When you are good enough at it, however, the feeling is AMAZINGLY satisfactory:o :yeah:

that is what I am aiming for. :|\\

Frederf

03-28-10, 02:59 PM

Hitman, always a pleasure to read your posts.

Chromatic aberration sounds like a very pleasant touch!

Txema

03-28-10, 03:03 PM

Very nice work !!!

Is it possible to use this mod on top of the new User Interfaces developed by TheDarkWraith ??

Or we need some changes to make them compatible?

Txema

gutted

03-28-10, 03:17 PM

reaper7, I have been relying only on the mast heights as shown in your enhanced recognition manual.

I am convinced there is a problem with the stadimeter.

And i am convinced that the mast heights listed for alot of the ships are wrong. Thats why you have to measure different locations for various ships. I saw this visually the last target i attacked.

Let's say the listed mast height was 25m and we're using the attack scope:
In high power zoom, the target should be 2 ticks high at 2500m (4 ticks if in the obs scope). If you look at the ship from that range.. you will see where 2 ticks falls... it wasn't at the mast it was at the funnel for this particular ship.

the math:

2 ticks is actually 4 for this scope so we use (25 X 100) / 4 ..... then multiplied by 4 for high power zoom. the divion and multiplication cancel each other out.. so it's just 2500. So you could just say that any ship when it is at it's mast height x 100 range.. should be 2 ticks high in the attack scope at high power. So a ship listed with a 29.3m mast.... when it is 2930m away the number 2 tick will show you where the mast is according to the value in the rec manual.

For the last escort i tried it against it was way up at the top of the mast.. for a large steamer it was near the horizontal parts of the mast... and for another ship it was at the top of the funnel.

So in summary... the listed mast heights in the ship .cfg files are off for some ships. If someone were to correct those we wouldn't be having this problem. Someone needs to go through the laborious task of figuring out where on the ship the lsited height is...

Easiest way to do it is to enable the "range to nearest visual contact" command. Fire the command and get the range from your WO in the message window. Use the stadimeter and move it up & down until you match the range with that of the WO's. Then look at where it is on the ship. If the listed mast height was 23.6m and the stadimeter is at the top of the funnel when it's set to the correct range... .. then the funnel is 23.6m high and not the mast.

Mav87th

03-28-10, 03:32 PM

Very nice work !!!

Is it possible to use this mod on top of the new User Interfaces developed by TheDarkWraith ??

Or we need some changes to make them compatible?

Txema

You need to alter his menu.ini and periscope ini files - ill doo that in a short while, but it will be for a 1900x1200 screen res.

TheBlobThing

03-28-10, 03:39 PM

You need to alter his menu.ini and periscope ini files - ill doo that in a short while, but it will be for a 1900x1200 screen res.

Aww, I can't just plaster this on top of Darkwraith's UI? I was sure hoping I could use this mod.

Just looks too good to leave alone :cry:

Edit: Anyone up for making a 16:10 (8:5) version?

kylania

03-28-10, 03:56 PM

You need to alter his menu.ini and periscope ini files - ill doo that in a short while, but it will be for a 1900x1200 screen res.

I tried that last night, and it ended... oddly. I'll wait for your fix. :)

Txema

03-28-10, 04:59 PM

You need to alter his menu.ini and periscope ini files - ill doo that in a short while, but it will be for a 1900x1200 screen res.

Thank you !!

Also looking forward to your fix !! :DL

Txema

Arclight

03-28-10, 06:10 PM

Jeesh, I take 1 night off and I get sidelined on my own project. :rotfl2:

- On stadimeter: as far as I understand it, the mast heights don't get send to it. No matter how you identify a ship, the result will always come out the same. imho ignore the thing, it's broken.

- 8:5 version is already included in the patch pack

- This mod changes the obs.scope ini, it might conflict with DarkWraith's mod there. Menu.ini has no changes made by this mod. I'll contact him and see about compatibility.

- I asked and got permission to integrate CCIP's tweaks. Will be included in v1.3.

- Hitman's point on discolouration to the sides of the attack scope view have been noted and integrated in v1.3.

- The horizontal part of the reticle in the att. scope will be moved to the bottom to correspond to new illustration.

- Will start work on binocular reticle to match illustration.

Sailor Steve

03-28-10, 06:32 PM

Hitman, always a pleasure to read your posts.

Chromatic aberration sounds like a very pleasant touch!
I agree, but how long do you think it will be before the complaints start coming in:

"I like your mod but the attack scope looks WEIRD! It's all blurry and I can't see anything at night!":wah:

Arclight

03-28-10, 06:32 PM

Requested permission to release patch for TDW GUI compatibility. Need to take his "page obs periscope.ini" and make 1 change. I'll put it in a patch, and integrate into v1.3. (if I get permission :))

Install his mod, then this one and finally apply patch.
I agree, but how long do you think it will be before the complaints start coming in:

"I like your mod but the attack scope looks WEIRD! It's all blurry and I can't see anything at night!":wah:
Too bad for them, there's other projects less dedicated to realism. ;)

Emtguf has one very similar, already distributed with TDW UI.

Bilge_Rat

03-28-10, 06:48 PM

some tests, PQ-17 mission, 21h00, attack scope is too dark to use because of dusk. view from the observation scope, using the latest build.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/329/pq17001.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3929/pq17002.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9147/pq17003.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9694/pq17004.jpg

surprisingly enough, after just a few days of using this mod, I am already at a point where I can now roughly guesstimate the range of a ship just by looking at it.

Sailor Steve

03-28-10, 06:50 PM

Ooh, nice!:sunny:

Arclight

03-28-10, 07:02 PM

Not just pretty, but functional. :lol:

Note on the colouration towards the edge of the field:

13. The definition in the centre of the field of the Zeiss instrument is good. Critical examination when the eye is moved across the exit pupil, however, reveals changes in quality which are not found in the Barr and Stroud instruments.

...

15. The exit pupil is strongly coloured when viewed from the side. This is a defect which causes the side of the field to become reddish or bluish in colour when the eye is displaced slightly across the exit pupil.

Since the defects only become apparant when the eye is displaced, I see no real reason to include the color-shift effect. We're (at least I am) assuming proper placement under normal conditions.

Any comments are welcome.

gutted

03-28-10, 07:11 PM

After more testing, yes.. i see the stadimeter IS broken. I was viewing the problem wrong i guess.

Anyway, I tested out a cimmaron tanker... i closed the range so that the top of his mast was at 50 in the obs scope. Did the math with the listed mast height.. and i was getting the correct range. Turned on the stadiemeter and put it at the 50 tick mark.. and the range it was showing was way off.

I stand corrected.

Arclight

03-28-10, 07:29 PM

Not sure what's wrong with it, most logical thing I heard was that the mast-height didn't get set when you IDed a ship, but just hear-say.

Might be related to aspect ratios and/or angular view/viewport settings.

Bilge_Rat

03-28-10, 07:43 PM

and here is a shot from the attack scope. I seem to have an issue with that saved game, local time was around 21h30, but now that I reloaded the save, it shows up as 17h30.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3192/pq17005.jpg

In game, the observation scope is easier to use in low light conditions than the attack scope, which I understand is how it was in RL as well.

Arclight

03-28-10, 08:04 PM

kylania

03-28-10, 08:24 PM

Indeed, even the obs. scope only transmitted about 40% of the light; attack scope should be useless at night, obs. scope only marginally usefull, like on a clear night. But SH5 has pretty bright nights (in stock), haven't had much difficulty yet with either. :hmmm:

Virtually all of my combat takes place at night, and it's a bitch to see anything as it is. Hopefully "realism" won't turn this into "you simply cannot see anything at night". :DL

Arclight

03-28-10, 09:27 PM

Frederf

03-28-10, 10:20 PM

some tests, PQ-17 mission, 21h00, attack scope is too dark to use because of dusk.

Now that's the kind of comment that makes me smile!

Arclight

03-29-10, 12:23 AM

Okeydokey, let's just do it like this for now:

1.3beta; CCIP freecam tweak included, no need to install that mod anymore. UZO mask updated. Also made package that can be installed with TDW UI. Each package contains 2 versions: 1 with and 1 without OPCF.

MRP 1.3beta (http://www.filefront.com/15962531/More-realistic-periscope-1.3beta.zip/)

MRP 1.3beta for TheDarkWraith UI (http://www.filefront.com/15962523/More-realistic-periscope-1.3beta-TDW-UI.zip/)

Periscopes are undergoing a rework and haven't even started on binocs. Thread will be updated with proper 1.3 release.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go bang my head against a wall...

EDIT: FEEDBACK! Thank you. :D

EDIT2: binocs magnification is now x8. Aparently Kaleun had a special pair, more powerfull than standard issue for crew.

kylania

03-29-10, 12:45 AM

Does 1.3 need the 8.5 patch thing too? Also, aren't those two links the same? :)

Arclight

03-29-10, 01:42 AM

Yes, patches will always be needed, and yes links are the same. :-?

Fixed, should point to the correct file now. :oops:

Txema

03-29-10, 03:59 AM

Arclight,

Thank you very much for making a version compatible with TheDarkWraith UI !!!!

Txema

Arclight

03-29-10, 04:07 AM

Thank you for bringing it to attention. Too busy with the projects to keep up with the ones from other people. ;)

Bilge_Rat

03-29-10, 06:18 AM

To be fair, I'm going for realism, not "realism". ;)

But yeah... kinda feel like I'm losing direction. Did a version with the discolouration and it looks nice, but I don't think it's nescesarily realistic. I'd really like some feedback, but then I'd have to halt progress untill I actually get any. I really want to move this forward to get stuff like CCIP's tweaks and TDW UI compatibility in (it's a go on that btw, only need to rename 1 file and drop the .ini from package).

Not really sure what to do at the moment so I end up just messing about. :-?

unless there is something wrong, I would leave it as is, it feels pretty much complete now.

1.3 beta. my first fully manual kill w. map updates "off", all info (type, range, speed, AOB) derived from visual sightings alone. 3 out of 3 torps hit at estimated 1,300 meters range.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2796/pq17006.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2828/pq17007.jpg

I also have BARF 1.3 installed and the ship went down in under 10 mins.

Arclight

03-29-10, 06:49 AM

Will rework bits and pieces, but the obs scope will essentialy stay as it is, except darker... but also made light version, so no worries. ;)

Can't stop a perfectionist. :lol: :-?

Anyway, nice shooting. Good to know it works out in practice, haven't tried it past the testing ranges yet. :salute:

TheBlobThing

03-29-10, 06:13 PM

Just tried this out. No effect whatsoever. I'm guessing I shouldn't have to be in port for this, right?

Edit: Should I install 1.2 first, then 1.3 beta for TDW UI and then patch for 8:5?

Arclight

03-29-10, 10:17 PM

Just go with 1.3 on top of TDW UI, then patch if needed. Can enable this anytime.

gutted

03-30-10, 12:14 AM

Have the patches been updated as well?

.ie does the 8:5 patch contain the free cam & binoc zoom tweak?

Arclight

03-30-10, 12:41 AM

Da**it! :damn:

Obviously not, no. I'll get on it. :doh:

Arclight

03-30-10, 01:05 AM

Fixed, pack updated. Link in the first post.

kylania

03-30-10, 01:20 AM

Umm.. what did I do wrong? :) Installed 1.3 beta TDW UI then the 8.5 patch and got this with the obs scope:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2497/oopsscope.jpg

Now, that's pretty sweet, but not what's supposed to happen right?

Edit: Figured it out, apparently I'd edited the obs.ini page directly at some point.

Arclight

03-30-10, 01:37 AM

Didn't point to "Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5_OBS.dds"? :hmmm:

kylania

03-30-10, 01:41 AM

Didn't point to "Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5_OBS.dds"? :hmmm:

Nope, had it pointed to something else. heh I did find another issue too, when you're in the pen and fully extend your periscopes you hit the pen roof on large wave swells! :O:

Arclight

03-30-10, 02:09 AM

"Ahead slow, take us out."
*KLUNK*
"Periscope damaged, Herr Kaleun!"
"BERNAAARD!"

Dowly

03-30-10, 03:22 AM

:har::har:

TheBlobThing

03-30-10, 06:04 AM

I have absolutely no idea what's going wrong here, but it just doesn't work for me. No change from stock periscopes or UZO. :doh:

Arclight

03-30-10, 07:00 AM

Alright:

When you download the mod, you get a .zip containing 2 folders. 1 folder is the standard version and the other includes OPCF. 1 of these 2 needs to go into your JSGME "MODS" folder. You can place them both there, but only enable 1.

So in the left pane of JSGME you should get "MRP 1.2" and/or "MRP 1.2+OPCF". Select 1 and enable.

I suspect you extracted the .zip into a new folder and placed that in JSGME. Most likely it would be called "More Realistic Periscope 1.2". That would cause the folder structure to become messed up, and the files end up in the wrong place.

To put it in another way: the folder containing the "data" folder needs to be moved into JSGME "MODS" folder. For example:

C:\downloads\more realistic periscope 1.2\MRP 1.2\data\...

Hope it helps. ;)

TheBlobThing

03-30-10, 07:16 AM

Thanks for the reply.

I've now double-checked to see if I made that rookie mistake, but alas, no. My problem must be with conflicting mods I fear. Although no conflicts were detected by jsgme. :hmmm:

Arclight

03-30-10, 07:22 AM

Strange, at least the att scope and UZO should overwrite default file, so should be noticed under any circumstances. Obs scope... you're not trying to put the TDW UI version on stock right? That would cause the obs scope to not change.

* and make sure to enable TDW UI first, then MRP.

TheBlobThing

03-30-10, 07:36 AM

Thanks for helping me out, much appreciated. :salute:

Just found out I was still using version 1.0 of Darkwraiths UI mod. Installed 1.1 instead and now your mod has overwritten some of his files. I'll just pop in to test out, report back in a moment.

Edit: That worked. Thanks for helping out. Oh, and very nice mod, thank you.

Arclight

03-30-10, 07:46 AM

Ah yes, a thing to note: the mod is designed to be compatible with the latest version of TDW UI. :lol:

Yoram777

03-30-10, 04:31 PM

Upcoming 1.3
- include CCIP's freecam tweaks
- binocular 8x zoom
- further enhanced accuracy for measuring with reticle
- darker masks (light version also available)
- version compatible with TDW UI
- thicker shadow around egde (looked jaggy at some aspect ratios)
- circular UZO and binocs view
- changed reticle on attack scope, essentialy identical to obs. scope

why do you make them the same?

MRP 1.3beta for TheDarkWraith UI (http://www.filefront.com/15962523/More-realistic-periscope-1.3beta-TDW-UI.zip/)

also, with this beta in my game the obs scope is the same as the attack scope :S
I use OldStyleSHControls_1_3_1_ByTheDarkWraith

Fattysbox

03-30-10, 09:43 PM

unless there is something wrong, I would leave it as is, it feels pretty much complete now.

1.3 beta. my first fully manual kill w. map updates "off", all info (type, range, speed, AOB) derived from visual sightings alone. 3 out of 3 torps hit at estimated 1,300 meters range.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2796/pq17006.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2828/pq17007.jpg

I also have BARF 1.3 installed and the ship went down in under 10 mins.

So, I don't know what the heck I'm doing wrong here but this is NOT the image I see through my scopes.

I have darkwraiths TDC dails and downloaded the most recent compatibility by Arclight. Installed MRP+OPCF for darkwraith and nada... :hmmm:

Stinks too since I've decided to go no map contacts and need some way to measure range.

Fattysbox

03-30-10, 09:47 PM

Ah yes, a thing to note: the mod is designed to be compatible with the latest version of TDW UI. :lol:

Well, this could saved me some trouble ;)

I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

BTW Arclight, this mod is very useful but jumping around the different posts is growing tiresome. Can you just put every update in one post? :sunny:

Arclight

03-31-10, 01:38 AM

why do you make them the same?

Not the same, same scales essentialy. Mkaes sense to have the same markings in both. Should be more historically accurate.

also, with this beta in my game the obs scope is the same as the attack scope :S
I use OldStyleSHControls_1_3_1_ByTheDarkWraith

Checked everything again, it should be compatible with his UI 1.1.0, I'll check the latest version to see if anything changed (shouldn't have).

So, I don't know what the heck I'm doing wrong here but this is NOT the image I see through my scopes.

I have darkwraiths TDC dails and downloaded the most recent compatibility by Arclight. Installed MRP+OPCF for darkwraith and nada... :hmmm:

Maybe check "page obs periscope.ini" and see if it points to "periscope_mask_1024_SH5_OBS.dds"

Make sure its: TDW UI > MRP > aspect ratio patch.

Well, this could saved me some trouble ;)

I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

BTW Arclight, this mod is very useful but jumping around the different posts is growing tiresome. Can you just put every update in one post? :sunny:
1st post has latest "official" release and patches, and a changelog. Made this early 1.3, which is still a WIP, available to add in CCIP's tweaks and TDW UI compatibility.

gutted

04-01-10, 12:01 PM

what DDS settings are you saving this with?

I made a very slight edit to the attack scope, but when i load it up in-game get some banding in the transparent part.

emtguf

04-01-10, 01:42 PM

Should be DXt5 with alpha

If you do 3 you get a lot of dithering.

reaper7

04-01-10, 01:59 PM

I have found (In photoshop, don't know if other appz have this setting) that if you want a non compressed Image with proper Alpha transperancy.
You can save the dds using 8.8.8.8 ARGB 32bpp unsigned rater than DXT3 or DXT5 both of which are 8bpp (files are larger but for no banding well worth it).
Here's an example of the difference: DXT3/5 on the left 8.8.8.8 on the right.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/Mods%20in%20Progress/Glass-Compare.jpg

The banding in the DTX3 Alpa channel is nowhere as good as the Alpha channel from using 8.8.8.8 option when saving .dds file

Now the 8.8.8.8 option is selectable in Photoshop with the nvidia plug-in, so I'm not sure if other progs have this option as well.

But the good news is Silent Hunter 5 has no problem loading in this format :).

emtguf

04-01-10, 02:04 PM

Glass Crap.dds
man you crack me up

I will have to see if I have that format in photoshop, havent noticed it before.

gutted

04-01-10, 02:08 PM

"glass crap" is exactly what my attack scope looked like in-game after my edit.

luckily i backed it up. :D

gutted

04-01-10, 02:34 PM

ok DXT5 did the trick (mostly).

emtguf

04-01-10, 03:32 PM

Fattysbox

04-02-10, 01:21 PM

So this mod is a MUST HAVE that gets around the eff'ed up stadimeter. But I'm having trouble measuring the range.

Let me get this straight:

(MH*1000 or 4000)/Tick marks

gives you range with either 1000 or 4000 beign the zoom factors?

Does this equation change with different scopes used? In the attack periscope, the tick marks are on a different scale so just want to clarify.

Thanks

J

Arclight

04-02-10, 01:59 PM

For now the att scope has slightly different marking, yes; 1 tick 20mil instead of 10.

Will have the new version this weekend, which has a reworked reticle for the att scope, making the marks the same.

lumat83

04-02-10, 03:31 PM

Hello Arclight :DL

Just a question : Will this new version fully compatible with "TheDarkWraith Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC" ?

Actually, It seem work with the Attack périscope and the UZO, but there is a problem with Obs Periscope : the optic is totally at the right of the screen and the TDC Hide a part of the view. :cry:

Arclight

04-02-10, 06:11 PM

The "official" 1.2 release is not compatible, but I have a beta/wip version that has the compatibility. There's a link at the bottom of the first post if you want a stopgap solution.

1.3 will have a TDW UI compatible version, should have that tomorrow or sunday. ;)

lumat83

04-03-10, 06:04 AM

Thank you, I think that we can wait without any problem :DL

Arclight

04-03-10, 01:48 PM

Changes:

- include CCIP's freecam tweaks
- binocular 8x zoom
- further enhanced accuracy for measuring with reticle
- darker masks (light version also available)
- version compatible with TDW UI
- thicker shadow around egde (looked jaggy at some aspect ratios)
- circular UZO and binocs view
- changed reticle on attack scope, essentialy identical to obs. scope

Note that the game stretches the binoc view, so it's got a little funny shape. Might change that in the future, but that would make the mod more complex (more files affected) and thus more likely to conflict with other mods.

Comes in 2 separate packages, 1 for stock and 1 for TDW UI. Each package contains 4 folders:

- normal
- normal + OPCF
- light version
- light version + OPCF

You should only use 1 at a time.

Link in first post updated, adding link for TDW UI shortly, and will update sample shots in post #2 as well.

java`s revenge

04-03-10, 01:55 PM

Arclight,

Your mod gives sh5 some extra. Better atmosphere when i look
through the scope.

Once again, thank you very much for all the time you gave to make this mod.

Arclight

04-03-10, 02:36 PM

Dank je. :shucks:

Posted some new samples, if you thought the old ones were dark, you're in for a nasty surprise. :lol:

Hence the lighter edition. If there are any issues, please let me know. It's 8 versions in total, so something might have slipped the net, despite the double-checking.

lumat83

04-03-10, 03:29 PM

This mod work perfectly. I've tried it with TDW UI.

Very nice :yeah:

Thank for the work :)

Yoram777

04-03-10, 03:32 PM

fantastic mod, thank you :D

I noticed two little things that seemed to be wrong though :06:

When using either version I'm able to slightly see through the black background (you can see it in the screenshot), or did you intend it to be this way?

When using the dark version I get red dots around the edge of the scope.

(I'm using the light version so I don't really mind, but I thought I'd just let you know, lol)

Example, dark version:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3706/image1oj.jpg

closeup, red dots in dark version:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5870/imgsge1.jpg

lumat83

04-03-10, 03:39 PM

Just a little question. Maybe its' not the good place here.:oops:

But can you explain in some words how use the graduations on the scopes ? Please ?

Arclight

04-03-10, 09:23 PM

Yoram, I'm squinting real hard, but I don't see it. :doh:

Sure you don't have a few dead pixels there? :hmmm:

Lumat, for the measurements:

target height x 1000 / measured mils (in low power)
target height x 4000 / measured mils (in high power)

Say a target has a mast that stands 30 above the water. Put the horizontal crosshair on the waterline and measure the top of the mast on the scale. Say the measured height is 20 mils in low power:

30 x 1000 / 20 = 30.000 / 20 = 1500

80 mils in high power, same target:

30 X 4000 / 80 = 120.000 / 80 = 1500m

The recognition manual doesn't provide mast heights (it should though). Either use a mod that adds them, or go through all the ship .cfg files and note the mastheights for all types... probably easier to go with the mod. ;)

Able72

04-03-10, 09:30 PM

Problem with the mod I have.

I use TheDarkWraiths new UI mod with full TDC dials. I am also on a 22" CRT which has a 4:3 aspect ratio. By default this puts the right TDC dials on top of the periscope view. I love the improved mag but can't live with the TDC.

Any suggestions or am I missing something?

Arclight

04-03-10, 09:36 PM

Ehr, I'm not responsible for the placement of either the dials or the mask. For the stock version, it's where it's always at, and for the TDW UI placement is controlled by his mod.

Make sure you have the compatible package for his mod, and that it does not overwrite "page obs periscope.ini" (if you see that overwrite warning, you have the wrong package). For that version, only .dds files get replaced.

TDC dials overlapping the view is something he'll need to fix. I did slightly increase the viewable area, but it's minor.

Able72

04-03-10, 10:06 PM

I may have had the wrong version.

*edit* in fact I know I did now that I've looked at it. Thanks.

Herz

04-03-10, 10:12 PM

Yoram, I don't see anything there either. My 1920x1200 monitor does not lie!

kylania

04-03-10, 10:42 PM

You guys gotta calibrate your monitors! :DL

Here's some color corrected (word used loosely) images to bring out the red a bit more so you can see it:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2686/somered.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8497/lottared.jpg

Arclight

04-04-10, 12:10 AM

Bilge_Rat

04-04-10, 07:15 AM

tried out 1.3, very nice Arclight.

Yoram777

04-04-10, 07:30 AM

In the shadow? Thought in the solid. Yeah, can't help that, probably result of DXT compression.

Still don't see the "see through" background problem though. :hmmm:

And my screen is perfectly calibrated, thankyouverymuch. :O:

kylania's pics show it clearly as well, the red dots (only in the dark version), but also the see through black (both versions).

Don't you see this? I can clearly see it.. :-?

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1375/58320611.jpg

kylania

04-04-10, 08:06 AM

haha, wow, I hadn't even noticed the sky, line and water in the black areas! :oops::D

Arclight

04-04-10, 02:51 PM

Nope, can't see it. Try turning down the gamma on your monitor, I think you just need to calibrate it. :hmmm:

At any rate, I colored it pure black. If you can see through it, it's a problem with the game engine.

* yep, tried doubling the gamma in GIMP, then I could see it. Seriously, either ditch that crappy LCD or calibrate it. :O:

Yoram777

04-04-10, 03:39 PM

I have a Samsung Syncmaster T220, thats not a crappy LCD :O: and it's calibrated just fine..
Besides i'm not alone, kylania sees it too :)

Arclight

04-04-10, 03:51 PM

And I have a truly crappy LCD here with the gamma turned down (0.7) and it doesn't show up on that.

Seriously, lower the gamma, either on your desktop or in the game.

Yoram777

04-04-10, 03:57 PM

And I have a truly crappy LCD here with the gamma turned down (0.7) and it doesn't show up on that.

Seriously, lower the gamma, either on your desktop or in the game.

Maybe it doesn't show "because" It's a crappy LCD? :DL

*EDIT, nvrmind I just tried SH5 with all mods disabled (reminded me just how bad it really was, wow! :)) and I can still see through the black
but hardly noticeable, somehow it becomes a bit more see through with mods? anyway, the see through itself is not your mods fault (lol) srry about that...
but there's still the red dots with the dark version..

It doesn't really bother me though..
I still enjoy your mod, but it would be nice if it could be fixed.

Arclight

04-04-10, 04:09 PM

I don't know, I don't see how.

Again, I had to double the gamma for the problem to show up on either my CRT or LCD. I don't think the problem is on this end, but I'll look into it. :hmmm:

kylania

04-04-10, 04:23 PM

I don't know, I don't see how.

Again, I had to double the gamma for the problem to show up on either my CRT or LCD. I don't think the problem is on this end, but I'll look into it. :hmmm:

Again, I've been playing daily for a month now and didn't notice the black area was see through till he pointed it out in that picture! I seem to remember SH4 having the same subtle issue as well. Most of that area is covered up with dials for me, so no biggie.

Yoram777

04-04-10, 04:23 PM

I edited my last post, don't worry about it anymore :O:
I wonder why it does that though..

reaper7

04-05-10, 02:06 PM

Hi Arclight just wanted to show how your graticules are fitting in to My mod that I'm currently producing.
I took a brake from the Panels and Started the Periscope - what with you releasing v1.3 and them sweet looking Overlays, I couldn't hold out any longer.
Again thanks for allowing the use of these in My mod, they sure add a lot to the authentic feel.

Here's the Periscope - I used your Alpha layer and incorporated it into my scope Mask (At 1080P). The black is fully masked so it should prevent across the 1920x1080 scope mask (So it should prevent bleeding for those that did experience it), although I can't say I've seen it.

Here's a Pic in-game. (Still some stuff to-do to the TDC Panels yet)
http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/SH5-First-Ingame-WIP.jpg

I really like the restricted light from the Attack perisope. This was during a bright daytime attack.
Noew It'll give reason for use of the Obs during nighttime runs. :salute:

Arclight

04-05-10, 08:21 PM

reaper7

04-05-10, 09:41 PM

Can't see a bloody thing, got half a mind to just use the light version. :rotfl2:

Glad it's to your liking. Keep in mind though that for the reticle to be functional, you need to calibrate the cameras.cam. Rescaling the mask/reticle ends up breaking it (for that particular angular angle setting), but I'm sure you're aware of it's functioning. ;)

Looks fantastic. :yeah:

Everythings fine, actual scaling of the recticule is 1:1 only difference is the fit into periscope that was a bit larger. Reworked the scope on my end to fit your alpha layer. :03:
And as I've created all my graphics at 1080P with no scaling it keeps that 1:1 scale.

Tested it out and ticks read perfectly. Measured distance perfectly. :up:

Cheers Arclight. Allthough I'll prob package this when done with the light version also.

Mav87th

04-06-10, 11:53 AM

Thats just a great job from both of you lads. Arclight and Reaper7

Arclight

04-06-10, 06:56 PM

Glad to hear it worked out, John. :yep:

Mav, ever heared anything from Zeiss? :hmmm:

Redlance88

04-08-10, 11:43 AM

Awesome job Arclight, I have been watching the progress on this mod and am thrilled.

I am trying to use ver 1.3 and my attack and obs scopes seem correct, but I am not seeing any changes to the Nocs or the UZO. My goal with the use of your mod is to be as close to historical as possible so bring on the dark filters and all the things that make it evil but true to history. I am sure back in the day there were a few different versions of the specific optics and the like, but just want to get close. With all that being said, what version of your mod do you recommend for me? If I understand some of the version changes, you have gotten rid of the mil count difference between the obs and attack scopes, is that correct? ( am ok with them being different if it is more correct but can understand the desire to keep things simple for people as well.) lastly I am getting easily seen number scales(not your darker ones) on one of the scopes without magnification is that normal or have I messed up the install some how ( kinda likely as I have many mods going ). Any way thanks again for doing this, and for working to make them correct as you can, for me it adds a lot to the Gaming experience. :yeah:

PS I have no idea what "OPCF" stands for? do I want that one vs the normal one? thanks again.

gutted

04-08-10, 01:35 PM

PS I have no idea what "OPCF" stands for? do I want that one vs the normal one? thanks again.

Observation Periscope Colored Filter.

It's an "always on" orange'ish filter added to the Obs scope. All it really does is make it near impossible to see things at night in the Obs scope. It looks cool at daytime though LOL.

Can't see a bloody thing, got half a mind to just use the light version.
Ugh, i find the new "lite" version to be just a tad too dark as well. But that's just my opinion.

TheDarkWraith

04-08-10, 01:42 PM

Observation Periscope Colored Filter.

It's an "always on" orange'ish filter added to the Obs scope. All it really does is make it near impossible to see things at night in the Obs scope. It looks cool at daytime though LOL.

Ugh, i find the new "lite" version to be just a tad too dark as well. But that's just my opinion.

why not script it to be disabled at night time?

kylania

04-08-10, 02:11 PM

why not script it to be disabled at night time?

I think the intention was to match the color filter of the real scope, not make it impossible to use the scope. :)

Bilge_Rat

04-08-10, 02:29 PM

I think the intention was to match the color filter of the real scope, not make it impossible to use the scope. :)

I have been using 1.3, it is dark, but usable. This is dusk, 21h30, arctic.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9694/pq17004.jpg

As for night, I was under the impression it was almost impossible to see anything through a periscope at night.

Arclight

04-08-10, 07:43 PM

I have been using 1.3, it is dark, but usable. This is dusk, 21h30, arctic.

As for night, I was under the impression it was almost impossible to see anything through a periscope at night.
That's not a shot from 1.3. :hmmm:

Using attack scope at night would be impossible as far as I know. Think even the obs. scope was only useable on bright, clear nights. There's a reason they attacked on the surface at night. :)
I think the intention was to match the color filter of the real scope, not make it impossible to use the scope. :)
Indeed, but it's another layer that partly blocks light, just like the real thing would have done. ;)
why not script it to be disabled at night time?
Why don't you script it to be disabled at night? :O:

Honestly, wouldn't know how; don't know my way around the menu editor. Aim always was to provide the option to turn it on and off, but don't know how.

The real thing could be rotated into place when desired.
Awesome job Arclight, I have been watching the progress on this mod and am thrilled.

I am trying to use ver 1.3 and my attack and obs scopes seem correct, but I am not seeing any changes to the Nocs or the UZO. My goal with the use of your mod is to be as close to historical as possible so bring on the dark filters and all the things that make it evil but true to history. I am sure back in the day there were a few different versions of the specific optics and the like, but just want to get close. With all that being said, what version of your mod do you recommend for me? If I understand some of the version changes, you have gotten rid of the mil count difference between the obs and attack scopes, is that correct? ( am ok with them being different if it is more correct but can understand the desire to keep things simple for people as well.) lastly I am getting easily seen number scales(not your darker ones) on one of the scopes without magnification is that normal or have I messed up the install some how ( kinda likely as I have many mods going ). Any way thanks again for doing this, and for working to make them correct as you can, for me it adds a lot to the Gaming experience. :yeah:

PS I have no idea what "OPCF" stands for? do I want that one vs the normal one? thanks again.
Think the latest version is closest to real. The change in reticle for the attack scope should be closer to the real thing.

Most binocs didn't have a reticle; they were for spotting targets, not estimating range or bearing. But the captain had a special set that may have typically had a reticle. Even then, it would have been a simple centermark, with a "10" and "20" engraved on either side, presumably reading mils.

Look at the samples in post #2; those are the masks used. However, the stock scales, numbers, and crosshair still show up. I could take it out (at least the numbers as far as I know), but then I'd be messing around with more files, creating more incompatibilities. For best effect, this should all really be absorbed into another mod that deals with the UI as well (those stock lines and such are technically part of the interface).

Same thing applies to the shape of the binocs btw, which I'll need to adress before I can incorperate a reticle.

Sink 'em all. :salute:

Bilge_Rat

04-09-10, 05:11 AM

That's not a shot from 1.3. :hmmm:

Sink 'em all. :salute:

good eye, I did not have one handy, that was from 1.2.

This is from 1.3. Pedestal mission, daytime, cloudy:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3888/pedestal001.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8700/pedestal006.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7299/pedestal008.jpg

panosrxo

04-16-10, 10:17 AM

Very accurate, now I can find distances fast. Are the magnifications of the obs and attack the same in reality?

Do you know if we can remove the stock vertical lines and numbers?

Watson

04-16-10, 10:29 AM

Looks real good, realistic thats excellent. :yeah:

rededge

04-16-10, 12:13 PM

Great mod this, thanks.

One thing, though- can I easily remove the yellow crosshair from the middle of the binos view?

Cheers!

Arclight

04-16-10, 10:41 PM

Very accurate, now I can find distances fast. Are the magnifications of the obs and attack the same in reality?

Do you know if we can remove the stock vertical lines and numbers?
Magnification and angular field of view are as close to real as practical, yes. :yep:

The stock lines and numbers would require some mucking about with the menu editor. I know the numbers could be removed with it, not sure about the lines. Might do that for the stock version, but it would raise a host of incompatibilities. :-?

M4XDmG

04-16-10, 11:09 PM

Hi! This is great mod, but I'm having hard time with range estimations... Can't get correct range, no matter what.

Now stupid questions:
1. I use metric system. Mastheightx1000/mils = range, in meters? Do I have to use imperial?
2. Which magnification setting do I have to use?
3. And (little of topic) is mast heights in enchanced recog. manual in meters?

Thanks for any help!

Arclight

04-16-10, 11:18 PM

It's a U-boot, it's all in metric. :yep:

target height x 1000 / measured mils (in low power)
target height x 4000 / measured mils (in high power)

Say a target has a mast that stands 30m above the water. Put the horizontal crosshair on the waterline and measure the top of the mast on the scale. Say the measured height is 20 mils in low power:

30 x 1000 / 20 = 30.000 / 20 = 1500m

80 mils in high power, same target:

30 X 4000 / 80 = 120.000 / 80 = 1500m

M4XDmG

04-17-10, 01:19 AM

Oh, thank you very much! Problem apparently was I used high power and multiplied mast height with 1000. Now everything makes sense.

Hitman

04-17-10, 02:16 AM

1. I use metric system. Mastheightx1000/mils = range, in meters? Do I have to use imperial?

The beauty of the equation is that it's a ratio. If you start with mast measured in meters, you'll get the result in meters, if you start with feet, you'll get the result in feet, etc.

Works universally :up:

Hitman

04-17-10, 02:19 AM

However, the stock scales, numbers, and crosshair still show up. I could take it out (at least the numbers as far as I know), but then I'd be messing around with more files, creating more incompatibilities.

You can get rid of them with a very simple tweak in cameras.dat (At least it worked in SH3 and SH4), look here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=161120

Arclight

04-17-10, 02:28 AM

I've tried that when you offered that solution before, but with no succes. ;)

Hitman

04-17-10, 02:47 AM

Ahh OK

Before SH5 was released, I opened a thread with modder's requests to make it easy to mod, and one of the Devs said that the reticle was no longer hardcoded but instead stored in an external graphic that could be modified easily. Wonder if this is still the case, or if it ended up being hardcoded again :hmmm:

Arclight

04-17-10, 03:12 AM

Probably moddable, just need to track it down. Mav pointed out the "10"s that show up in the attack scope are editable in the menu editor, maybe it's just a matter of finding the right page to edit for the lines. :)

Problem is most, if not all, the UI mods tend to alter the pages, so if I try to edit out the stock stuff, I almost certainly make this incompatible with every one of those mods.

rededge

04-17-10, 03:47 AM

One thing, though- can I easily remove the yellow crosshair from the middle of the binos view?

Sorry!

Bump! Is this at all possible?

Thanks.:DL

Arclight

04-17-10, 04:11 AM

Ehm, that's what was being discussed, and I figured I answered it by answering Panosrxo's question:Do you know if we can remove the stock vertical lines and numbers?

The stock crosshair may or may not be easily removed, at the very least we have had one of the devs state that it is at least possible, ie. no longer hardcoded:Before SH5 was released, I opened a thread with modder's requests to make it easy to mod, and one of the Devs said that the reticle was no longer hardcoded but instead stored in an external graphic that could be modified easily.

rededge

04-17-10, 05:11 AM

Ah, right :oops:

I know the centre crosshair activates the deck gun crew, so rather than get rid of it completely, maybe a better option would be to make it less "strident" in a future update...

Cheers!

Arclight

04-17-10, 05:19 AM

:O:

Centre crosshair activates the deckgun crew? :06:

rededge

04-17-10, 11:42 AM

Um, yeah, you've made me doubt myself now!! :-?

I think what happens is if you have your merchie (for example) in range you focus your binos on it and the crosshair will turn red, then hit spacebar and your deckcrew man up and fire at your target.

Someone else confirm please??

Not replied earlier as I've been out/about in the sun, most beautiful spring day of the year so far! (UK).

Arclight

04-17-10, 11:53 AM

Not sure, but think it's just about pointing your binocs on the bearing of your target. :hmmm:

Crosshair is probably just a graphic bit, no real function.

kylania

04-17-10, 08:24 PM

Is there a way to get a version that does away with the green marked thicker line here:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5676/cantread.jpg

When I can't read a bearing this becomes intrusive instead of immersive. :) This line wasn't there in earlier versions, was it?

Arclight

04-18-10, 01:51 AM

Think I'll just move the bearing strip instead. ;)

Shouldn't be there to begin with.

TheDarkWraith

04-20-10, 02:32 AM

I'm trying to merge many other great mods into my UIs mod. Would you mind if I packaged yours with my next release?

Arclight

04-20-10, 07:21 AM

Not at all, go right ahead. ;)

Let me know if there's any trouble, and I'll keep you up to date on updates.

Yoram777

04-24-10, 01:49 PM

just wondering why you made the UZO and binocs view circular?

Arclight

04-24-10, 03:46 PM

Because lenses are round. :)

Your brain combines the vision from your 2 eyes into stereoscopic vision. Looking through binoculars, the same thing happens.

That's the theory, anyway. Can't remember the last time I looked through binocs. :hmmm:

Capt Jack Harkness

04-28-10, 10:21 PM

Random question, quite possibly answered in earlier posts... Why are the top and bottom cut off of the obs scope mask?

Arclight

04-29-10, 12:08 AM

Because that's how it looked (to the best of my knowledge), not a clue on why it was like that though. :hmmm:

Capt Jack Harkness

04-29-10, 07:36 AM

Okay, another silly question that may have been answered previously... What causes the mask to be shifted to the right of my screen and does the shift have any effect on my accuracy?

Arclight

04-29-10, 07:47 AM

Not sure what you mean. :hmmm:

For me, offset to the right is default behaviour (4:3 res). I think it's the UI mods that center it. The mask being misplaced relative to the actual "view" will definetly mess up your accuracy.

I've only made a compatible version for DarkWraiths UI mod; getting overwrite warnings with anything but the TDW-UI version in combination with that mod will break something, typically the mod being overwritten.

Capt Jack Harkness

04-29-10, 04:20 PM

Hmm, strange. I've noticed that in stock as well as some UI mods the scope is centered, and only with your mod does it show up on the right side. I do have an LCD running 1920x1200 if that factors in at all... But I also use your 8x5 patch.

Arclight

04-30-10, 01:16 AM

Never did anything to change the placement, so I'm afraid it's not something I can help you with. ;)

Capt Jack Harkness

04-30-10, 01:26 AM

severniae

05-13-10, 04:16 AM

Hi guys,

Will this mod still work in 1.2? Adds too many good features and I don't want to lose them to an update!!

Arclight

05-13-10, 05:57 AM

Good question, one I won't have an answer to untill this weekend. I'll post an update on whether or not a re-download is required.

reaper7

05-13-10, 08:16 AM

Mmmkay, just thought I'd ask.

EDIT: Found my problem, was using the TDW version without the TDW UI... Works perfect together! On a seperate note does anyone know where the stock markings (the ones that indicate zoom level on the left) are located? If you could replace them with this mask then you could possibly have an accurate scale in both high and low power, just like a first focal plane variable zoom rifle scope...

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way, zoom only affects the Cameras.cam file.
When the user zooms in via the mousewheel if only bring the camera close/further to the screen and changes the zoom value on screen which is just a Txt variable taken from the cameras.cam file.
The current method for is to import new Graticules is by editing the stock mask which is the black screen with the hole.
Now in my UI I have taken the graticule out of that Periscopewithhole Mask and created seperate Graticules for day and night to get the different looks.
Your idea while not done yet could be done if I could figure how to access the Zoom level variable.
Now you have me thinking, I will look into it see if it can be done.

Hi Arclight,once again thanks for the use of your Periscope Mod in my initial phase of creating the High resolution UI Mod.
I would never of gotten so far with the Periscope side of things without seeing how you created yours. I'm still using your 16.10 cameras.cam file you created, but am currently re-creating the other resolution by varying the Angular Distance to get the Ticks lined up with mast heights.
The 16:10 is fine as that was the Aspect ratio I created the Mod for (1080P), but the other cam patches would not work out - I think its becase I using Fixed Scaling instead of the stock No Constraints (Therefore Graticule is not scaling at different aspect ratios).

Arclight

05-15-10, 05:18 AM

Hope you get it worked out, but having the scaling like that might cause trouble with different resolutions... if I understand it correctly (probably not). :hmm2:

Confirmed compatible with SH5 1.2. :up:

Krauter

05-15-10, 09:08 AM

So I don't really understand what the difference is between the Light version and the normal version.

Also, what is OPCF :hmmm: I read through your first post and didnt really understand.. Sorry to sound noobish

Arclight

05-15-10, 09:17 AM

Yeah sorry, I toss that term around rather lightly, like everyone knows it. :oops:

OPCF is a smaller mod I did for SH4&5; stands for Observation Periscope Color Filter. It adds a colored layer to the mask, can help a bit in low-light conditions.

The idea is historically accurate, though the effect on gameplay isn't nescesarily.

The differences between light and dark versions should be obvious, as well as difference between with and without OPCF: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1322880&postcount=2

Krauter

05-15-10, 09:33 AM

Ahh so basically the light version adds higher gamma I presume to give better light conditions (I assumed it was a 'light' version ie: less features)

Also, for the OPCF, can I install one when I leave for patrol and when I need the filter switch during patrol?

Also, are your aspect ratio patches compatible with TDWs UI Mod?

Arclight

05-15-10, 09:49 AM

Nah, it's different versions; either you play with or without OPCF. Messed around a bit in the past to make it switchable, but couldn't quite get it right in SH4. Now in SH5 I could do it with the scripting, but then the mod becomes less usable due to incompatibility with other mods.

The brightness isn't about gamma, it's about opacity. To "simulate" light-loss, a partially transparent layer of black is added, making the image darker. The light version just has more transparent masks.

As far as I know the patches are compatible, but let me know if you get overwrite warning with his mod. ;)

Krauter

05-15-10, 09:54 AM

Alright will do :up:

So which of your mods keeps the 'stock' light settings :hmmm:

Also, upon enabling the MRP 1.3 (OPCF) I get these conflicts :

"Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5.dds" has already been altered by the "NewUIs_TDC_2_3_0_ByTheDarkWraith" mod.
"Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5_OBS.dds" has already been altered by the "NewUIs_TDC_2_3_0_ByTheDarkWraith" mod.

Arclight

05-15-10, 09:59 AM

None, think even the light version is darker than the stock scopes. Periscopes actually blocked a lot of light, especially the attack scope, thanks to its smaller head. The dark version is my interpretation of "as close to real as possible".

Figured it might be a bit too dark for a lot of people, so I made another set that halves all the values, effectively making them twice as transparent as the dark version.

Arclight

05-15-10, 10:09 AM

About the conflicts: not sure. I know TDW UI comes with Emtguf's scopes, either optional or standard, and a while back we agreed to include MRP with his mod as well. I have not looked at his latest version pack yet, and never played with his mod enabled (in fact haven't really played since I started modding), so maybe have a look in-game or ask in his thread which scopes are used by default. Might be something in the documentation, I honestly don't know how he went about it. :-?

* should be alright though, only overwrites a bit of graphical stuff, which is just fine.

kylania

05-15-10, 10:10 AM

Also, upon enabling the MRP 1.3 (OPCF) I get these conflicts :

"Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5.dds" has already been altered by the "NewUIs_TDC_2_3_0_ByTheDarkWraith" mod.
"Periscope_Mask_1024_SH5_OBS.dds" has already been altered by the "NewUIs_TDC_2_3_0_ByTheDarkWraith" mod.

That's fine and required. :) Basically it just changes the shape of the scopes.

TheDarkWraith

05-15-10, 10:15 AM

About the conflicts: not sure. I know TDW UI comes with Emtguf's scopes, either optional or standard, and a while back we agreed to include MRP with his mod as well. I have not looked at his latest version pack yet, and never played with his mod enabled (in fact haven't really played since I started modding), so maybe have a look in-game or ask in his thread which scopes are used by default. Might be something in the documentation, I honestly don't know how he went about it. :-?

the default scopes are the stock SH5 ones in the UIs mod. They were just changed to be compatible with others scope mods (yours, emtguf). You have to enable another version if you want to use something different :up:

Arclight

05-15-10, 10:31 AM

Well, there ya go, couldn't have a better source. :)

No offense, Kylania. ;)

Krauter

05-27-10, 06:01 PM

Anyway to get the binoculars back to normal? I don't really like the look of the monocular..

kylania

05-27-10, 06:58 PM

Anyway to get the binoculars back to normal? I don't really like the look of the monocular..

Simply remove the Gui folder from data\Menu in the mod. All that is there are two dds image files, so by removing that you still get the better scopes and free cam zoom stuff, but you don't get the cyclops binocs and the circle UZO, both are full screen and 8-shape'ish per stock.

Krauter

05-27-10, 07:38 PM

Thanks :)

Arclight

06-27-10, 05:00 PM

I am not sure what trouble you are having.

Is it that you can not see at night?

Petr

08-24-10, 04:32 PM

I have just a little problem with this mod. I have in periscope diferent lines than I see on screenshots. There are also sme "extra lines" which look like from stock. I use TDW UI.
Does anyone have any idea what is wrong?

Arclight

08-24-10, 04:36 PM

Extra lines are hardcoded, not much I can do about that. Make sure you're using the TDW UI version, normal one isn't compatible with his mod. ;)

* and enable after UI mod, of course.

oscar19681

08-26-10, 09:40 AM

I lose the tdc,s in the obs scope with the UI mod. Also the periscope view go,s back to the right like in stock. I installed the UI compatible one.

Arclight

08-26-10, 09:45 AM

I'll have a look, gimme a minute.

TheDarkWraith

08-26-10, 09:58 AM

I lose the tdc,s in the obs scope with the UI mod. Also the periscope view go,s back to the right like in stock. I installed the UI compatible one.

I use MRP 1.3 with no problems with my UIs mod :DL

Arclight

08-26-10, 10:10 AM

I don't see a problem. Only module that changes the cameras.cam is emtguf's rework. Nothing else in TDW's mod makes changes to cameras.cam.

Make sure this is enabled after the UI mod, and check no other mods in the list conflict with cameras.cam. Maybe disable emtguf's module before enabling this one.

This mod makes no changes to the postioning of the scope, so that's really out of my control.

* ^ seem's I'm not the only one. :lol:

SteelViking

08-26-10, 02:46 PM

Hey Arclight, I did end up perfecting that .dds file for the binoculars so that they would be round instead of football shaped(an American football that is). You are welcome to use it if you like. It makes the binocs round without causing the conflicts of doing it the .ini route.

Arclight

08-27-10, 05:16 AM

Actually, I would appreciate it. Better than mucking around in a .cfg file causing who knows how many compatibility issues. :yep:

Abd_von_Mumit

08-27-10, 06:35 AM

Arclight: thank you for your mod. Just started using it yesterday together with TheDarkWraith's "super mod". Good work, keep it coming.

coolesp

09-16-10, 08:38 AM

Hello, I have 16:10 aspect ratio (1650x1090)

So, what I need to use?

Thanks

Arclight

09-16-10, 09:03 AM

Base mod and the 8:5 patch. ;)

Make sure you apply the patch after base mod, and please use the TDW UI version if you are using TheDarkWraith's UI mod.

nozaurio

09-16-10, 09:32 PM

Greetings Arclight.

:up:Let me first congratulate you on this splendid Mod

:hmmm:Sorry if I misunderstood, but my aspect ratio is 16:10 (1680x1050)...

Have to use the same patch that Coolesp (8:5 patch)??

Thanks...

Abd_von_Mumit

09-16-10, 09:41 PM

:hmmm:Sorry if I misunderstood, but my aspect ratio is 16:10 (1680x1050)...

Have to use the same patch that Coolesp (8:5 patch)??

Yes. 16/10 is exactly the same as 8/5 (i.e. = 1.6). :up:

nozaurio

09-16-10, 09:43 PM

:yeah:

nackl

12-11-10, 06:23 AM

Thx man

PL_Cmd_Jacek

01-04-11, 05:29 PM

Arclight, is your mod compatible with the newest TheDarkWraight's UI 6.2.0 mod ? I see a conflict with cameras.cam file .

"cameras.cam" has already been altered by the "NewUIs_TDC_6_2_0_ByTheDarkWraith" mod.

TheDarkWraith

01-04-11, 05:30 PM

Arclight, is your mod compatible with the newest TheDarkWraight's UI 6.2.0 mod ? I see a conflict with cameras.cam file .

no it's not but I'm working on making a compatible version currently :up:

PL_Cmd_Jacek

01-05-11, 04:02 AM

:yeah:Thank you, a lot I'm really waiting for it.

TheDarkWraith

01-05-11, 08:53 AM

:yeah:Thank you, a lot I'm really waiting for it.

I included a working version of it in v6.3.0 of the UIs mod

PL_Cmd_Jacek

01-05-11, 02:31 PM

I've checked it and worked perfect. :woot::woot:

Thank you :rock:

pgargon

01-29-12, 04:28 PM

Nice Mod. Many Thanks :yeah:

arechavala

03-10-12, 11:18 PM

It's fantastic. Thanks! :up:

Captain Gabriel Angelos

07-17-12, 04:51 AM

:yeah:

mamlasraz

01-20-13, 02:22 AM

I would like to say hello and thank for this amazing mod!!!! very well:D

skip

04-08-13, 03:55 PM

Hi Arclight

Just installed your mod with the 16x9 patch for my 1920x1080 resolution, hope I used the correct ratio patch, also just to clarify after I install TDW UI mod I install your MRP mod then the ratio patch.

Does this mod also work with the RAOFB wheel because I was trying it out with a practice mission and the range values were out.

Hope you can help, thanks

Arclight

04-09-13, 08:25 AM

That's the right ratio, yes. I really can't make any statements regarding compatibility, other than that anything overwriting it is going to break it.

Thing is, it was always a stop-gap solution to the broken stadimeter. Basically what this mod gives you is a manual stadimeter; it's working on the same principle to determine range. With all the other mods since then I see no practical way to keep this up to date and compatible.

(essentially all the work I did is deprecated. BRF went on to be included in other works and there are alternatives for range-finding)

Shadow4869

07-08-14, 11:30 AM

I'm not sure if anyone is following this mod anymore, but I have an installation question.

Does this mod require TDW? Because last time I tried installing TDW I had to reinstall my game and messed everything up:(

Defiance

07-08-14, 01:38 PM

Hiya,

There's two flavours, stock called More realistic periscope 1.3

And, MRP 1.3 - TDW UI compatible

And also MRP Patch Pack for res's

I had in the past used them with and without tdw's newui's

:salute:

Editidddddddddd

About your newui problem

I assume you d/loaded tdw's newui's, unrarred (7 zipped etc) then copied or unleashed the mod straight into the MODS folder ?

TDW crams as much optional stuff as he can into those ui's, so the actual ui mod is buried deep in the initial unrar etc that itself is called the same as the newui (mods folder iirc)

If so, just go in and find the newui folder (mod) and have fun with jsgme

I come across about four mods like this, tdw's is different as he as i say crams so many optionals in for us, it makes sense to pack as he does, other mods were just double foldered (eg : zed_mod/zed_mod/data/guff guff/blah blah/lol)

Shadow4869

07-08-14, 11:18 PM

I only downloaded the MRP package (the first one)
I installed the MRP 1.3 Light.
Should I also install the resolution package with this? Or is that only for the TDW option?

Edit:

I am going to install the res patch just to be sure.
Although I have a res question.

I use 1360x768 resolution as I am using an LCD tv. But I thought it was a 16:9 resolution, but according to the data it is showing me on the calculator 1.7708333.
So I should use this one, 85:48 (ratio=1.7708) or the 16:9 Ratio?

Aktungbby

07-09-14, 12:09 AM

Shadow4869!:Kaleun_Salute:

Defiance

07-09-14, 12:54 AM

Hiya,

As far as odd-ball res's go, only way to test is to see which one looks best (obviously but had to be said) and also your aiming may be off like mine was

I accidently loaded 16:9 instead of 8:5 besides missing about every ship but looked ok to me lol

:salute:

Shadow4869

07-09-14, 03:02 AM

lol thanks Akt!
I think I have her set up correctly now. the oddball res worked for me. I switched over to manual TDC yesterday, after getting sick of auto TDC missing the easiest darn shots!
Even managed to take out a warship that barely missed his depth charges.... Before he was able to line up again! In my defense, that was the 4th and last torp on my boat besides the rear one haha!
Trying to figure out the torpedo speed difference with a maxxed out crew is a little tough, but the worst is the warship hull depths! my first 2 missed because torp passed right underneath! Even though the picture showed a hit on the depth meter, but oh well. Time for bed as it's almost 3am lol!

So for any other new people. Just download the first link and the last link and install with the installer. Unless you have TDW.

Also, great mod! Goes perfect with my flooding mod.

I do have a question though.
My math skills are..... CRAP! Would someone be able to dumb down the math on how to figure out the range to target. I am guessing that I put my crosshairs at the waterline, center mast. Then count the little things on the left and do some math to figure it out?
Also where do I get the height of the ship to begin with?