[TEC] Mod Tools, HowTo

[urfisch]

FIRST STEPS IN MODDING:

Here are some basic steps to start with the modding (tools):

* do a back-up copy of the data folder. you'll thank me later for this http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif (you'll have a backup to help you undo changes and be able to create a installation kit for your mod using a comparing tool (Beyond Compare etc)).

* configure the game to run in window mode in a resolution smaller than your Windows desktop

* change the main.cfg file in MyDocuments\SH5\data\cfg:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9382/moddingoptions.png

* there are several types of editors for SH5:
** standalone (Mission Editor and GoblinEditor, the descendant of Kashmir) are executables placed in the same folder as sh5.exe. You use the editor to edit data, close it and then start the game to test the changes. Closing the editor is very important because it frees important system resources that will, otherwise, be locked and the game may crash because there's not enough memory (RAM or video).
** used while the game is running so you can see the changes in real-time (terrain editors, python scripts manager, menu style sheets)
** using the game engine but not the game itself (the Menu Editor). This is the way it has been done for SH3 and while it has its advantages, it also has its drawbacks (but there's never enough time to fix this).

* with the game running (but NOT while there's a loading screen), right click on the window's title bar to show this menu:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6097/toolsp.png
With the Windows versions that have the standard task bar, this menu also appears if you right-click the application's button in the task-bar. That's not true for Windows 7 since it has a new API for the task-bar buttons.

* although it doesn't say in the menu, the terrain editors also require the game to be "in patrol mode". As a basic rule, you can't edit something that has not yet been instantiated. So this is also true, you can start the script manager to edit the python scripts while you're in main menu but you can't change the script for the default HUD (since, duh, it's not yet instantiated). You have to be in patrol and the HUD to be running to be able to apply changes you do it (yes, it's something like Edit & Continue).

* the GoblinEditor is used to attach and edit behaviors (controllers) to the structure of every 3D object in the game. This is the way the GDS engine works (the one in the kernel.dll). There are literally hundreds of controller types in the game and can be edited visually using a property grid.

* [very important]setting up the GoblinEditor means typing the folder where the sh5.exe is located in the ActorsDirectory property in the Tools\Options window (e.g. K:\Games\Silent Hunter 5). The actors are the .act files in the SilentHunter5 folder and are the ones holding the code for all the controllers.

* This is a use case for the GoblinEditor:
** Open a GR2 file (the one with the 3D geometry, G stands for the Granny engine (http://www.radgametools.com/granny.html)). You'll see the object being rendered and its structure in the GDS Scene Tree panel.
** Merge the files containing the controllers (.sim, .dat, .chr, .cam, .val, .zon). The sim file contains the controllers for the simulation (see, SH5 is a simulation after all http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif) and the cam file contains the controllers for the camera parameters.
** let's try it. open data\Objects\Guns\Deck_Gun_GE88mm.GR2 and merge the Deck_Gun_GE88mm.sim and Deck_Gun_GE88mm.cam files. Open the Controller Editor (Ctrl+E) in the Tools menu. A window is displayed (you may have to resize it the first time) and click on the StationController to see the properties for the controller handling the situation when the player uses the deck gun as a station. The actual gameplay associated with the gun is handled by the wpn_Cannon controller.

* Now, a little about the folder structure. You can find GR2 files in many folders (Library, Objects, Submarine, Sea etc). The Library folder is special (hard-coded) and contains the objects that are always needed (e.g. torpedoes_g7a-e.gr2). All the other folders contain files loaded on-demand (e.g. there's a text configuration file indicating that the file is to be loaded).


Consider this the first episode of the series. There will be others following this one.


It strikes me that this info could be also stored in a SH5 wiki. :hmmm:



This is a generic thread, so post your questions here so all the modders can read the answer. I think this is much better than answering on every mod's forum thread.

Mihai

:ping: This is from a technical PM. I encourage you ask your questions on the forum, rather than on PMs because
1. the others will also see the answer and may benefit from it
2. it's a better use of my time, because people have similar questions so I don't have to write the same answer multiple times. Plus I may forget some details on the 3rd time I answer the same question. And I can answer more distinct questions in the same time rather than answering the same questions over and over.
3. I have subscribed to this thread so I receive emails when you ask something. So it's just like a PM, only better http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif

Hello

* Please stop changing the ini files by hand. That was the only way to create UI mods for SH4. Now we have given you the Menu Editor. Use it.
* the colors use the RGBA format
* matflags: 1 for transparency and 8 for bilinear filtering
* MatFlags=0x29 is 0x20 + 0x08 + 0x01. I don't know by heart what 0x20 means, i'll have to look into the DirectX headers. But it's not a value you normally encounter.
* menus use a system that resembles the CSS used in web development, e.g. you create a set of appearance properties (specific for texts, buttons, listboxes) and apply that style for any number of menu items. So StatesColors should usualy be set by means of style sheets (from the Menu Editor). As a bonus, style sheets can be changes while the game is running (very useful for list-boxes that only get filled with content at run-time, e.g. the Combat Log in the bottom right corner of the HUD). The style sheets themselves are stored in the Silent Hunter 5\data\Menu\StyleSheets\German.shss file.
* the FocusableMenuItem (button, check box, radio button) has 4 states: Disabled, Normal, Mouse Over, Pressed. So those are the colors for the 4 states.
* Drag, BmpState, NeedFocus, SelOne - were used in SH3 and are now obsolete (and hard-coded). The SH5 way is to use python scripting to implement your design (good examples can be found in scripts we wrote for the HUD, Navigation map and the Character dialog (the big .py files in data\Scripts\Menu)).

* While on patrol, open the script manager and click on a script from the tree on the left. Do your changes to the script code you see on the right and press the ApplyChanges button. That's it.
* There's a button called ViewGlobals to let you see the variables that the script is working with and see the exposed properties for those variables.
* The script manager has some useful features like text-auto-complete, jump-to-function-definition, find-text and go-to-line-number.
* Also, there's a tab called Class Definitions to see all the classes exported to the python scripts containing the inheritance tree, description, nested types, properties, methods and events.

Mihai




GENERAL OVERVIEW:



as elanaiba wrote in another thread, take a look on these screens:




Will game play be controlled by the same type of layers as in SH3? Will there be a mission editor included in the SH5 package?

The mission editor for Silent Hunter 5 was totally redone. It has many new features including layers, projects support, much better ship group customization, etc. Here are some screenshots from the editor:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8939/aidebugger.png



http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5226/aiscript.png

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2959/interfacescripteditor.png

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5451/menueditor.png

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9678/missioneditor.png

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9382/moddingoptions.png

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5118/terraineditor.png

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6097/toolsp.png
#
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1549/uniteditor.png

---

LINKS TO HOWTOS:

TERRAIN EDITOR:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162810

ENVIROMENT:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163370

ANIMATIONS:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163299

INTERFACE DESIGN
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163118
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163268

MISSION EDITOR:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163364

---

thread is generic...please check back...

[Drifter]

Why is this thread so dead? I mean, does no one here realize the potential for the ability to now script in SH5?!

This is BIG news. Wake up people! :timeout:

[Kretschmer the IV]

I see ultragiantenormous genial mods comming :hmm2:

[gutted]

I found everything but the script manager. where is it?

[Drifter]

I found everything but the script manager. where is it?

I wish I knew. But I don't even have the game yet. Maybe someone else can answer.

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm just about speechless. This is incredible. Terrain editing, script editing, menu editing, campaign editing... there's no end to the things you can do with this.

If only the GWX team had this many tools when they made their supermod:o. Maybe some or all of it can be ported?

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9678/missioneditor.pngWhat do these "nodes" do? Do they have to do with traffic or someething?

[Hartmann]

Well , seems that despite the drawbacks , limitations , and half finished game it´s like a blank board where modders can do everything they want. :hmmm::up:

[CCIP]

What do these "nodes" do? Do they have to do with traffic or someething?

My first hunch is that these are traffic lanes where ships/convoys may choose alternate routes. I.e. shipping routes are possibly less scripted than they were before. I did notice that traffic shows up in a lot more places than I would've expected; I also noticed traffic actually avoiding coasts (not always successfully). I suspect that the traffic scripting has undergone a pretty big overhaul towards the dynamic.

[gutted]

I found everything but the script manager. where is it?



found it!

with the modding controls enabled, you have to right click the Slient Hunter 5 Taskbar icon and select it from the menu... as was shown in the screenshots further up.

Took me abit to realize that's what it was showing.

[jmr]

I wonder how many of our talented modders will buy SHV though. How many of them are refusing to buy the game solely because of the DRM?

[Safe-Keeper]

My first hunch is that these are traffic lanes where ships/convoys may choose alternate routes. I.e. shipping routes are possibly less scripted than they were before. I did notice that traffic shows up in a lot more places than I would've expected; I also noticed traffic actually avoiding coasts (not always successfully). I suspect that the traffic scripting has undergone a pretty big overhaul towards the dynamic.I'm guessing traffic routes, too, they definitely seem to go in and out of ports and follow shipping lanes.

My hypothesis is that it's a way to increase performance by not making all ships plot their own routes. Instead of the game tracking I don't know how many different routes, now all you have to do is tell a ship to, for example, patrol between nodes X, Y and Z, and it will stick in that area. Hopefully you can add some randomness into the game, too ("go within 30nm of Node 60, then transit to Node 100 or within 2nm of Node 62, then...").
S
I see there is a "StateAbandon" and "StateSurrender" in the Script editor (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8939/aidebugger.png), too. So do crews actually abandon ship or surrender now?

[karamazovnew]

Well , seems that despite the drawbacks , limitations , and half finished game it´s like a blank board where modders can do everything they want. :hmmm::up:

That HAS to be the worst thing a dev would like to hear. Let's not go overboard just yet. There are a few things missing but I wouldn't call the game a "blank board". :shifty:

[etheberge]

Wow these tools are very promising!

Now if only I could figure out how to access them :-)

I did the changes in main.cfg but when I right click on the SHV taskbar when it's running I only see the standard window controls (restore, maximize, that sort of thing). Running Windows7 here.

[R-T-B]

That HAS to be the worst thing a dev would like to hear. Let's not go overboard just yet. There are a few things missing but I wouldn't call the game a "blank board". :shifty:

True that. I'm a very talented programme/scripter, but suck and at artwork and models. Guess which part Ubisoft probably did ok at? ;)

[Sailor Steve]

Why is this thread so dead? I mean, does no one here realize the potential for the ability to now script in SH5?!

This is BIG news. Wake up people! :timeout:
The first post was made at 0342 hours, my time, which is central US. That would be 2242 in London, where people are going to bed.

Your post was made at 0755 my time, so people here were just getting up. The reason this thread was so dead was because everyone was asleep.

[gutted]

Wow these tools are very promising!

Now if only I could figure out how to access them :-)

I did the changes in main.cfg but when I right click on the SHV taskbar when it's running I only see the standard window controls (restore, maximize, that sort of thing). Running Windows7 here.

which main.cfg did you edit?

You need to do it in the one in your \My Documents\SH5\ folder.. not in the main game path.

[etheberge]

Doh!

Yes that was it, thanks Gutted, it's working now.

[gutted]

Cool... now make an awesome mod :D

[Marko_Ramius]

This sound so promising :o


Few days ago, i said that i was not going to buy the game, because of DRM (and my poor internet connection). But more i see/read about SH5, more i think i will buy it ..

Thanks Devs :up:

[martes86]

Some outstanding modding capabilities here... this could possibly be the subsimming plataform of our dreams. We just need to join our efforts and make it possible. :rock:

And DRM shouldn't be an obstacle. Not anymore. :DL

Cheers :rock:

[Schunken]

Now it looks not we buy a subsim game.... we buy a subsime engine and maybe we could make the Sim of our dreams... :yep:

Andreas

[Friedl9te]

May the MATRIX be with us ... ;)

[Drifter]

Now it looks not we buy a subsim game.... we buy a subsime engine and maybe we could make the Sim of our dreams... :yep:

Andreas

Just look at what modders did for the Oblivion game. Unbelievable mods due to the wonderful editor they included.

[gutted]

The menu editor is abit confusing.

Looking through it i see all sorts of stuff in the menu pages thats not in-game.

[etheberge]

Did anyone figure out all the keyboard shortcuts for the Object Placement editor yet?

I couldn't figure out how to lower/raise an object, or even how to easily position them with the mouse.

[kapitan_zur_see]

tools for modders right out of the box! big suprise indeed! can't wait to try them out :up:

awesome news

[karamazovnew]

found it!

with the modding controls enabled, you have to right click the Slient Hunter 5 Taskbar icon and select it from the menu... as was shown in the screenshots further up.

Took me abit to realize that's what it was showing.

This doesn't work on Windows 7 because of the new QuickLaunch Taskbar thingie. :doh:
Even RightClick and then Shift RightClick doesn't work. We need a different solution. I'm not going back to Vista :stare:

[karamazovnew]

YEEES, found a way! All W7 users listen up.

Open the Menu Editor and right click on the window top. You'll get a menu that allows you to open any of the tools :rock:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6205/tutorial2v.jpg

[piri_reis]

It's weird, Menu editor, Script Manager and AI debugger works but the terrain geometry and object editors will not open.. :hmmm:

[blechritter]

Thanks! As Win 7 user I was at a loss.:oops:

But does anyone know already the names of all the waypoints on the u-boat?

I really would like to implemet a crash dive strategy which resembles the action of the trailer

Thanks in advance

[urfisch]

It's weird, Menu editor, Script Manager and AI debugger works but the terrain geometry and object editors will not open.. :hmmm:

just near land and in the game!

[maerean_m]

This menu is meant to be used only in patrol (I just didn't have the time to fix it being available in the menu editor):

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6205/tutorial2v.jpg

[maerean_m]

:ping: Here are some basic steps to start with the modding (tools):

* do a back-up copy of the data folder. you'll thank me later for this http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif (you'll have a backup to help you undo changes and be able to create a installation kit for your mod using a comparing tool (Beyond Compare etc)).

* configure the game to run in window mode in a resolution smaller than your Windows desktop

* change the main.cfg file in MyDocuments\SH5\data\cfg:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9382/moddingoptions.png

* there are several types of editors for SH5:
** standalone (Mission Editor and GoblinEditor, the descendant of Kashmir) are executables placed in the same folder as sh5.exe. You use the editor to edit data, close it and then start the game to test the changes. Closing the editor is very important because it frees important system resources that will, otherwise, be locked and the game may crash because there's not enough memory (RAM or video).
** used while the game is running so you can see the changes in real-time (terrain editors, python scripts manager, menu style sheets)
** using the game engine but not the game itself (the Menu Editor). This is the way it has been done for SH3 and while it has its advantages, it also has its drawbacks (but there's never enough time to fix this).

* with the game running (but NOT while there's a loading screen), right click on the window's title bar to show this menu:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6097/toolsp.png
With the Windows versions that have the standard task bar, this menu also appears if you right-click the application's button in the task-bar. That's not true for Windows 7 since it has a new API for the task-bar buttons.

* although it doesn't say in the menu, the terrain editors also require the game to be "in patrol mode". As a basic rule, you can't edit something that has not yet been instantiated. So this is also true, you can start the script manager to edit the python scripts while you're in main menu but you can't change the script for the default HUD (since, duh, it's not yet instantiated). You have to be in patrol and the HUD to be running to be able to apply changes you do it (yes, it's something like Edit & Continue).

* the GoblinEditor is used to attach and edit behaviors (controllers) to the structure of every 3D object in the game. This is the way the GDS engine works (the one in the kernel.dll). There are literally hundreds of controller types in the game and can be edited visually using a property grid.

* [very important]setting up the GoblinEditor means typing the folder where the sh5.exe is located in the ActorsDirectory property in the Tools\Options window (e.g. K:\Games\Silent Hunter 5). The actors are the .act files in the SilentHunter5 folder and are the ones holding the code for all the controllers.

* This is a use case for the GoblinEditor:
** Open a GR2 file (the one with the 3D geometry, G stands for the Granny engine (http://www.radgametools.com/granny.html)). You'll see the object being rendered and its structure in the GDS Scene Tree panel.
** Merge the files containing the controllers (.sim, .dat, .chr, .cam, .val, .zon). The sim file contains the controllers for the simulation (see, SH5 is a simulation after all http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif) and the cam file contains the controllers for the camera parameters.
** let's try it. open data\Objects\Guns\Deck_Gun_GE88mm.GR2 and merge the Deck_Gun_GE88mm.sim and Deck_Gun_GE88mm.cam files. Open the Controller Editor (Ctrl+E) in the Tools menu. A window is displayed (you may have to resize it the first time) and click on the StationController to see the properties for the controller handling the situation when the player uses the deck gun as a station. The actual gameplay associated with the gun is handled by the wpn_Cannon controller.
** click on the 3D representation and move around with W,A,S,D,Home,End keys and holding the mouse right button.

* Now, a little about the folder structure. You can find GR2 files in many folders (Library, Objects, Submarine, Sea etc). The Library folder is special (hard-coded) and contains the objects that are always needed (e.g. torpedoes_g7a-e.gr2). All the other folders contain files loaded on-demand (e.g. there's a text configuration file indicating that the file is to be loaded).


Consider this the first episode of the series. There will be others following this one.


It strikes me that this info could be also stored in a SH5 wiki. :hmmm:



This is a generic thread, so post your questions here so all the modders can read the answer. I think this is much better than answering on every mod's forum thread.

Mihai

[CCIP]

I agree, a Wiki would be great. Neal, any chance Subsim could host some sort of info repository like that?

And oh, thanks for the info Mihai, looking forward to more :)

[maerean_m]

Nothing official or anything, but maybe Ubisoft could help with the Wiki. :hmmm:

[karamazovnew]

Thanks Mihai, I never would've thought to use the game in window mode :woot:.

Edit: I'm having trouble with the drop down lists (for example when I try to select the Dial Type) in the Granny Editor. They open for just a second and then close and reset my values to a null value. And is there a way to open the Menu Editor while the game is running?

[maerean_m]

Thanks Mihai, I never would've thought to use the game in window mode :woot:.
Edit: I'm having trouble with the drop down lists (for example when I try to select the Dial Type) in the Granny Editor. They open for just a second and then close and reset my values to a null value. And is there a way to open the Menu Editor while the game is running?
* I've just tried the drop down list in the Goblin Editor and it works fine. Try using the arrow keys to change the value. (maybe you are opening a list that has so many values that it gets taller than the screen and closes itself).
* The menu editor is started after setting MenuEditor=Yes and clicking on sh5.exe. You'll be asked if you want to start the Menu Editor. That's the (only) way it works. You can change the behavior (the script) while the game is running.

[urfisch]

so, whats the goblin editor for? changing animations? link animations to certain situations? changing the 3d model (this doesnt work, i think)?...i tried to deal with this editor for some hours and still havent learned what it was designed for...

please leave some thoughts on that! thanks.

[jimimadrid]

:ping: Here are some basic steps to start with the modding (tools):


* with the game running (but NOT while there's a loading screen), right click on the window's title bar to show this menu:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6097/toolsp.png
With the Windows versions that have the standard task bar, this menu also appears if you right-click the application's button in the task-bar. That's not true for Windows 7 since it has a new API for the task-bar buttons.

Mihai

This do not work for me. WindowsXP Prof. I do not get the menu by right click.

I only get the "Do you want to activate Menu Editor?" Question at start.

[karamazovnew]

* I've just tried the drop down list in the Goblin Editor and it works fine. Try using the arrow keys to change the value. (maybe you are opening a list that has so many values that it gets taller than the screen and closes itself).
* The menu editor is started after setting MenuEditor=Yes and clicking on sh5.exe. You'll be asked if you want to start the Menu Editor. That's the (only) way it works. You can change the behavior (the script) while the game is running.

Got it to work by changing the W7 theme to Windows Classic. Roger on the Menu Editor thing. I love that I can see each script in the game when I click buttons. By the way, is there a "published" list of possible commands in SH5?


However I'm getting an error in Granny when I try to merge *.prt files (I got the following when merging the ROOM_CT.prt file:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/82/tutorial2c.jpg

Then the editor exits.



@Jimimadrid: as m_maerean said, open the game in Windowed mode. For me it worked at a resolution of 1024*768.

[urfisch]

is it possibe, to edit the particles.dat with a preview in goblin? this would be much easier, than editing it in s3d and trying it in the game...

i already tried to load it into goblin, but it says there are actors missing...dlls. where can i find them and what is meant with actors? and i see no preview of the different effects in the window of goblin. it simply does not work anything with the particles.dat in goblin. it just shows it file structure.

@kara
i also had this exit due to writing in protected memory.

[jimimadrid]

@Jimimadrid: as m_maerean said, open the game in Windowed mode. For me it worked at a resolution of 1024*768.


I do it. This is what i get.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3693/image2zd.jpg

[piri_reis]

[QUOTE=jimimadrid;1297445]I do it. This is what i get./QUOTE]

Did you modify your main.cfg to enable the dev.tools?
The cfg file in MyDocuments\SH5 not the one in the game folder.

[maerean_m]

This is what i get.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3693/image2zd.jpg
That happens because you right-clicked the task-bar button while the game was loading, during which it doesn't process the messages from the OS. So when Windows asks which options are enabled, it doesn't get an answer in a timely manner so it disables all of them.

In short (as specified in the 'big' post), right-click on task-bar only when there is no loading bar on the screen.
I know you may get impatient with all the loading times, but let the game do its job when it's loading (and don't touch the mouse :))

[karamazovnew]

is it possibe, to edit the particles.dat with a preview in goblin? this would be much easier, than editing it in s3d and trying it in the game...

i already tried to load it into goblin, but it says there are actors missing...dlls. where can i find them and what is meant with actors? and i see no preview of the different effects in the window of goblin. it simply does not work anything with the particles.dat in goblin. it just shows it file structure.

@kara
i also had this exit due to writing in protected memory.

Start the Damage editor and you'll see the animations. Not sure how much that helps, I've never modded particles. :03:

[maerean_m]

:ping: This is from a technical PM. I encourage you ask your questions on the forum, rather than on PMs because
1. the others will also see the answer and may benefit from it
2. it's a better use of my time, because people have similar questions so I don't have to write the same answer multiple times. Plus I may forget some details on the 3rd time I answer the same question. And I can answer more distinct questions in the same time rather than answering the same questions over and over.
3. I have subscribed to this thread so I receive emails when you ask something. So it's just like a PM, only better http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif

Some questions about entries in the page .ini files:

what are the possible values for these and what do they do?

Color=0xFFFFFF00 (ARGB or RGBA or ?)
Materials=1 (# of materials - associated with Mat x?)
Display=0;No stretch - what are all possible values here and what do they do
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/dialsfdb.dds - figured this one out
MatFlags=0x9 - what are all possible values here and what do they do
TexFmt=0x0 - what are all possible values here and what do they do
Drag=false - item is draggable?
BmpState=1 - what are all the possible values are what do they do?
NeedFocus=true - purpose is?
SelOne=false - ??
IdGroup=0 - ??
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF - what are the different states? What does each value above represent?


how can I debug scripts in real time? When I have the game loaded I can run the script manager and see my scripts. But how can I change them, save them, and have the game reload them while playing the game (thus testing changes)?Hello

* Please stop changing the ini files by hand. That was the only way to create UI mods for SH4. Now we have given you the Menu Editor. Use it.
* the colors use the RGBA format
* matflags: 1 for transparency and 8 for bilinear filtering
* MatFlags=0x29 is 0x20 + 0x08 + 0x01. I don't know by heart what 0x20 means, i'll have to look into the DirectX headers. But it's not a value you normally encounter.
* menus use a system that resembles the CSS used in web development, e.g. you create a set of appearance properties (specific for texts, buttons, listboxes) and apply that style for any number of menu items. So StatesColors should usualy be set by means of style sheets (from the Menu Editor). As a bonus, style sheets can be changes while the game is running (very useful for list-boxes that only get filled with content at run-time, e.g. the Combat Log in the bottom right corner of the HUD). The style sheets themselves are stored in the Silent Hunter 5\data\Menu\StyleSheets\German.shss file.
* the FocusableMenuItem (button, check box, radio button) has 4 states: Disabled, Normal, Mouse Over, Pressed. So those are the colors for the 4 states.
* Drag, BmpState, NeedFocus, SelOne - were used in SH3 and are now obsolete (and hard-coded). The SH5 way is to use python scripting to implement your design (good examples can be found in scripts we wrote for the HUD, Navigation map and the Character dialog (the big .py files in data\Scripts\Menu)).

* While on patrol, open the script manager and click on a script from the tree on the left. Do your changes to the script code you see on the right and press the ApplyChanges button. That's it.
* There's a button called ViewGlobals to let you see the variables that the script is working with and see the exposed properties for those variables.
* The script manager has some useful features like text-auto-complete, jump-to-function-definition, find-text and go-to-line-number.
* Also, there's a tab called Class Definitions to see all the classes exported to the python scripts containing the inheritance tree, description, nested types, properties, methods and events.

Mihai

[Heretic]

Thanks for all your help maerean_m, I have a few questions on crew scripting.

1. Can the in-game script manager be used for crew scripts? I looked through it briefly, but didn't see anything I recognized.

2. For Wp:IsCharacterPosture(x) values are A,B,C, etc. What do these represent?

3. I can't get Wp:IsCrewState(B_STATIONS) to ever return true. Setting battle stations in the game doesn't seem to set the trigger.

4. Looking thru animation_info.txt, it appears I should be able to offset an animation. Is that correct? Nothing happens when I add an entry to it.

Thanks!

[idl0r]

hey guys,

maybe i'm just blind but.. i don't find a script console or script debugging stuff.

i found a "Console" key in Commands.cfg but that doesn't work..
so now i need a way to debug some python stuff.
any hints?

[Nisgeis]

i already tried to load it into goblin, but it says there are actors missing...dlls. where can i find them

Have you configured the root dir of the game in the editor? Go into Tools->Options and set the game's home dir up, as in the 'big' post above:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1297134&postcount=33

From that post:

* [very important]setting up the GoblinEditor means typing the folder where the sh5.exe is located in the ActorsDirectory property in the Tools\Options window (e.g. K:\Games\Silent Hunter 5). The actors are the .act files in the SilentHunter5 folder and are the ones holding the code for all the controllers.

[TheDarkWraith]

* Please stop changing the ini files by hand. That was the only way to create UI mods for SH4. Now we have given you the Menu Editor. Use it.

Can you give me a manual that explains what everything on that application does and how to use it?
I'm having problems placing items where I want them with the editor. I fire up the editor, move the item on the screen to the location I want and press save changes. Now in the editor it's placed exactly where I want it. But when I fire up the game to check the change the item isn't where it's supposed to be. What gives?

Can the tools be made independent of the game launcher? I need to be able to test changes NOW, not when Ubi finally decides to get their servers working again. So far today I haven't been able to do anything with any of my mods because I can't access the game due to 'you need an internet connection' or 'invalid username/password' or whatever other reason. This is beyond absurd and totally unacceptable.

[bigboywooly]

Any tutorial for the mission editor ?
Can we edit the nodes
How about editing the node startpoints like Kiel where I guess you need to add the names of new groups for them to work

Thanx in advance

[Therion_Prime]

Has anyone figured out how the waypoint editor in the goblin editor works?

The textboxes are all empty after loading GR2s, even merged ones that contain waypoint info.

[Drifter]

This do not work for me. WindowsXP Prof. I do not get the menu by right click.

I only get the "Do you want to activate Menu Editor?" Question at start.

jimimadrid, the script menus cannot be accessed by minimizing the game during play. You must re-size the game resolution to be smaller than your desktop. Plus, the game option has to be set to 'windowed mode'. Then the script menus will show in-game. Hope this helps you. :know:

[urfisch]

Have you configured the root dir of the game in the editor? Go into Tools->Options and set the game's home dir up, as in the 'big' post above:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1297134&postcount=33

From that post:

yes, i got that. now everything works...but the dat files are damaged, when adding new controller entries - after loading them again.

take a look here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1303700&postcount=5

[Heretic]

I found this documentation on using various tools to edit GR2 files. I know very little about 3d modeling, so I don't know how much of this is of any use. I thought I'd post it here so that more knowledgable folks can provide some input as to it's usefullness.

http://gr2decode.altervista.org/docs.html
also this one
http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=14,36458,,10

[Seeadler]

I found this documentation on using various tools to edit GR2 files.
http://gr2decode.altervista.org/docs.html


With the tool from that site, it is possible to extract 3D data from GR2 and inport it into 3DSMax. The other way round from Max to GR2 should work with the Neverwinter Nights 2 Mod tools :smug:

Here I tried to get the La Pallice model into 3DSMax
http://s6b.directupload.net/images/100311/temp/a865gcow.png (http://s6b.directupload.net/file/d/2095/a865gcow_png.htm)

BTW:
Good job devs :up:, the La Pallice harbour layout now looks as near as in real life, although by today's time because in the 40's the harbor was a little different, but that could be possibly modded :cool:

[gutted]

Taskbar menu items are all greyed out.

Im in windowed mode, have the main.cfg stuff enabled in MyDocuments/SH5 and i'm not trying while at a loading screen (tried at main menu, and while on patrol). I'm using XP32-bit. what did i miss?

I'm trying to get at the Script Manager.

[Heretic]

I've been using Granny Viewer to look at the crew models and animations. Very quick and useful. When loading the character objects, it'll display all of the meshes in one big blob, so you need to use the 'hide all meshes' command and then pick the ones you want.

[voidster]

ive been trying to tinker (just tinker..nothing major) around with the VIIA's stats. On a bad day i just want to go out and well..sink stuff..(a lot..heh) so ive been tinkering with a hex editor on the .sim files to increase the ships speed. Well ive been told the goblin editor is better ..and much easier to use.

So far i cant get to work properly. Ive pointed the goblin editor where my actor dll's are (my main sh5 directory ) and when i try to load up the sim file for editing ..it informs me it cannot find many actor dll's and refuses to load. :damn: Am i missing something big here? this all new to me and ..im having a lot of trouble following this information provided. id appreciate any helps or thumps on the skull to get me thinking properly :salute:

[KarlKoch]

Try loading the *.gr2 file instead. It should load all children. However, i have no idea of editing anything there.

[sergei]

So far i cant get to work properly. Ive pointed the goblin editor where my actor dll's are (my main sh5 directory ) and when i try to load up the sim file for editing ..it informs me it cannot find many actor dll's and refuses to load.

Yep, I got that problem too. Pointed it at my SH5 folder, can open the GR2 file ok, but when I try and merge the sim, zon etc. files I still get the missing actors dialog.

[piri_reis]

Yep, I got that problem too. Pointed it at my SH5 folder, can open the GR2 file ok, but when I try and merge the sim, zon etc. files I still get the missing actors dialog.

You should highlight and open both files at the same time
NSS_Uboat7a.GR2 and NSS_Uboat7a.sim

also merging works alright on my side :hmmm:

[voidster]

You should highlight and open both files at the same time
NSS_Uboat7a.GR2 and NSS_Uboat7a.sim

also merging works alright on my side :hmmm:

just tried that, it fails to load the dll still.

[piri_reis]

just tried that, it fails to load the dll still.

and you got actors_directory and root_folder set properly..
In that case it's weird :-?

[voidster]

and you got actors_directory and root_folder set properly..
In that case it's weird :-?

LOL ok i get the darwin award today. i didnt notice there were two directorys to set manually. I just saw the root folder option not the one way up top for actors. :damn:

now maybe i can figure out how to edit the stats heheh thanks for putting up with my chaos.

edit: ..ahh..much easier than hex editing. Now ive got to figure out how to add about 100 more torpedo reserves *evil grin*

[Punkedit]

How do you set the two files?

[voidster]

How do you set the two files?

its listed in the tutorial, but its kind of buried..at least thats my pov.

you launch the editor, then click tools then options. From there you need to type in the location where your SH5.exe is located for the "Actors Directory" (should be the first blank area) then down at the bottom of the first menu you type in the same location info for the "root directory" (in my case it was D:\sh5 but i always install to diff directorys.)

it has a lot of potential but the learning curve is going to rank up there with Lightwave. Hmm i may have to tinker around and see if i can import stuff from LW, might be cool to put some of my modeling skills to use. ..er anyhow. hope that helps.

[maerean_m]

I'm trying to implement AOB, Range, Speed, and Heading dials for the UZO and periscope and have ran into a ro*******. See here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1309701&postcount=352

What I can't get are the dials to accept commands. When I click on them or try to rotate the dial or hand it does nothing. I noticed that the application is controlling the dials though - heading moves when I move my periscope or uzo, range doesn't seem to be working quite right, speed registers nothing even when I lock onto a target. AOB works correctly as the application is controlling it.
Now what I want to do is to take manual control of these dials and input my solution into them. This is what I can't get to work. I've done this before in SH3/4, it was a snap, but I think the TAI or this new 'arcade' style solution is screwing it all up. I don't like the current way the game computes the solution for me. I want to have to track the ship and figure out it's speed, couse, AOB, etc. and manually input them into the TDC for a firing solution. Is this possible?

Here's a link to my files for this if you would be so inclined to have a look: http://www.filefront.com/15805903/OldStyleSHControls-1-3-0-TDC-byTheDarkWraith.7z/


TheDarkWraith
:ping: I've looked in the archive and I can give you a big hint: python scripts only use tabs as indentation at the beginning of the line. Any spaces in that part make the script to behave unpredictably. That's why is very advisable to use the game's Script Manager. And most of all because of the word-auto-complete feature that is also aware of the game's SDK (exported classes, enums, properties, methods and events).
Copying python scripts from the forum is one cause for all the very bad spaces.

Now back to your mod:
The TDC page is still in the game (100% intact), you can see it the Menu Editor too. Just create an "empty" script (like the one in "Page obs periscope.py") with the same name of the ini file (Page TDC.py for Page TDC.ini) and you'll the have full access to all the menu items in the TDC page.
And from the Menu.PageActivated you hook on (+=) in every periscope's script you can bring that page on screen for the player.


#Page obs periscope.py
from menu import *
def InitializeScript():
Menu.PageActivated += Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated += Menu_PageDeactivated
def UnloadScript():
Menu.PageActivated -= Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated -= Menu_PageDeactivated
def Menu_PageActivated( page ):
if page == Pageobsperiscope:
from PageTDC import PageTDC
PageTDC.Visible = True
def Menu_PageDeactivated( page ):
if page == Pageobsperiscope:
from PageTDC import PageTDC
PageTDC.Visible = False
And you do the same for the attack periscope and the UZO.

Remember, copying python scripts from the forum is one cause for all the very bad spaces. Make sure you replace the spaces with tabs.


Also, you can also bring back the notebook:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/maerean_m/SilentHunter5/attackperiscopesolution1.jpg?t=1268370984

[TheDarkWraith]

Is there a way to get the goblin editor to give you the x,y,z coodinates of a position on a loaded 3D model? Like below, I loaded up the VIIa sub and I'm trying to get the coordinates of the center of the exhaust port. I move my mouse over the exhaust port but don't see any coordinates showing anywhere.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee4/tazmaniandevilrider/GoblinEditor.jpg

[maerean_m]

:ping: Also, copying the menu items what comprise a dial in the Menu Editor is not enough (those are just bitmaps). You have to create a new dial entry for it (in data\Menu\cfg\Dials.cfg).

And there's a restriction, you can't add dials to a menu page that didn't have any dials in the stock version of the game (because there has to be a specific line of C++ code for that menu page).

[maerean_m]

ah, so trying to add them to the UZO won't work because of the restriction right? got it. So by importing them into the UZO or periscope they will work? Do I understand this correctly?
Page UZO already has dials inside the Solution group (ID=0x28030000), so you can add dials to the UZO page.

My message is that the correct way to add the TDC dials in the periscope pages is to actually just show the TDC page to the player (with the script I gave you just a few minutes ago). So if you add a dial by hand to one of the periscope page, you'll have to do it all over again in the other 2 (attack, observation, UZO).

And since the layout I saw in the screenshot (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee4/tazmaniandevilrider/TDC_1.jpg) is different from the one currently in the game, all you have to do is to move the dials around in the Menu Editor.

That's all and is that easy.
Mihai

[maerean_m]

Is there a way to get the goblin editor to give you the x,y,z coodinates of a position on a loaded 3D model? Like below, I loaded up the VIIa sub and I'm trying to get the coordinates of the center of the exhaust port. I move my mouse over the exhaust port but don't see any coordinates showing anywhere.
picture of GoblinEditor (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee4/tazmaniandevilrider/GoblinEditor.jpg)

Handling 3D coordinates by hand is a very bad practice. The correct way is to have a dummy 3D object (and maybe attach controllers to it).

[maerean_m]

ah, so trying to add them to the UZO won't work because of the restriction right? got it. So by importing them into the UZO or periscope they will work? Do I understand this correctly?
See here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1309984#post1309984)

thanks. I'm trying to import them into the UZO currently but it's not working. Throwing some 'debug code' (ala MessageBox.Show()) to see if the functions to show the TDC page are getting called or not.
Use ScriptManagerManaged.ShowPythonError("") instead of MessageBox.Show()

[TheDarkWraith]

Handling 3D coordinates by hand is a very bad practice. The correct way is to have a dummy 3D object (and maybe attach controllers to it).

The reason I was looking for the 3D coords is to attach a FastParticleGen controller to that exact location (sub exhaust).
explain what you mean by a dummy 3D object. I've seen these before in SH3/4 but never really understood what they were for.

[maerean_m]

:ping: You haven't created the Page TDC.py . That file translates in the module the error is talking about.

And yes, there is a glitch in the Matrix. The script for menu pages are initialized when they are made visible for the first time. So you won't catch the first PageActivated. The solution is to call Menu_PageActivated( PageUZO ) as the last line in InitializeScript.

thanks maerean_m. I got it working now! I hadn't created a Page TDC.py like you said. Now how do I give the imported page a higher Z order priority (I want it on top of everything in the page that imported it)? Since I imported it does it fall under the hierarchy of the page that imported it (i.e. Page UZO imports Page TDC...does heirarchy look like this: PageUZO_PageTDC_XXXX?
:ping: The import keyword in python only imports the Globals from that script into your script so you can call those globals by their name. It has nothing to do with anything else.

The Z order is the one from the tree you see in the menu editor. If you want to bring a page closer to the player, drag it down in that tree. The Z order is saved in data\Menu\Pages\menu_1024_768.ini (so you include that file too in your mod).

The menu items also have methods for the z-order: MakeSureIsBehindOfZOrder, MakeSureInFrontOfZOrder, SendToBackZOrder and BringToFrontZOrder. BringToFrontZOrder must NOT be used on menu pages (will cause BIG bugs).

Mihai

[maerean_m]

The reason I was looking for the 3D coords is to attach a FastParticleGen controller to that exact location (sub exhaust).
explain what you mean by a dummy 3D object. I've seen these before in SH3/4 but never really understood what they were for.

A dummy is a 3D object with no geometry that's used for exactly that: to indicate a position in space. The very good part is that the object is placed using 3D Studio Max by using very friendly tools (you drag an object with your mouse). If you were a 3D modeler, you would hate to have to work with 3D coordinates by hand (each being made of 3 numbers with 7 decimals).

For you, it means you need to find an already existing dummy object on sub's hierarchy (there are plenty of those) and attach your controller to it.

[sergei]

LOL ok i get the darwin award today. i didnt notice there were two directorys to set manually. I just saw the root folder option not the one way up top for actors.

Can I have that Darwin Award when you're done with it?
That is exactly the source of my problem too.
Sorry for wasting everyone's time :oops:
Must have been having one of my now legendary obtuse episodes.

[Ablemaster]

Wondered if someone could point me in the right direction, now i have Vista 64 bit i cant find an DDS converter to work with it ive looked everywhere all the usuall ones dont work correctly with Vista 64 so now im a bit stumped here. DDS Converter was fine with my old xp rig but now im lost, ive got photoshop cs4 also but no joy there, any help appreciated.

[sergei]

You could try GIMP. Dunno if it works in Vista 64, but it's free, so is probably worth a shot.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1356

[Ablemaster]

Yeh Sergei i'll give it a go, thanks.

[Ablemaster]

Thanks for your help Sergei it worked fine, going to try my hand at some modding, now i can see the files, great help, cheers.

[sergei]

No problem. :salute:
Go get em!

[Therion_Prime]

If I add, say, a button to the gui with the menu editor, where is the "logic" for this button (where is the code that tells the button what to do)?

[gutted]

Taskbar menu items are all greyed out.

Im in windowed mode, have the main.cfg stuff enabled in MyDocuments/SH5 and i'm not trying while at a loading screen (tried at main menu, and while on patrol). I'm using XP32-bit. what did i miss?

I'm trying to get at the Script Manager.

Posted this a few pages back and got no reply. So i'll just give it one bump. I really want to access the script manager.

[TheDarkWraith]

If I add, say, a button to the gui with the menu editor, where is the "logic" for this button (where is the code that tells the button what to do)?

the 'logic' lives in the page's .py file. For example:

you add a button to Pagelayout_Groupfeedback. Now to 'handle' that button you need to open up \data\Scripts\Menu\Page layout.py and add the necessary code to handle click events, mouse in/out, etc.

[maerean_m]

the 'logic' lives in the page's .py file. For example:

you add a button to Pagelayout_Groupfeedback. Now to 'handle' that button you need to open up \data\Scripts\Menu\Page layout.py and add the necessary code to handle click events, mouse in/out, etc.
http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif
TheDarkWraith is the best student in his class http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif

[maerean_m]

First off, thanks for the help in getting the TDC dials working :up:

Where can I find a list of all the game states? I pulled this line from Page Default Hud.py:

if Game.CurrentGameState == GameWrapper.GameStates.Bunker:

I'd like to know what all the game states are if that's possible. Specifically when you start a campaign. Right at the beginning when you're in your rack and they're telling you to go to the bridge. What game state is that?

also you responded about bringing back the notebook (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1309958&postcount=70). I tried most of the day to get this to work to no avail. Is there something that controls the notebook (some kind of trigger? Like I have to have a target locked or something?) I've tried reposition it on screen, in the menu order, I've tried just about everything I can think of to get this to show and can't.

TheDarkWraith
Learn to use the Script Manager. It's your friend http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif. Open it and look for GameWrapper in the Class Definitions tab. You'll see that the GameWrapper.GameStates enum has 2 values: Bunker and Mission (Initial is for internal use only).

As for the notebook with the TDC solution, I don't remember right now, but maybe the C++ code hides it when the patrol starts. But that's not a problem, you know scripts now http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/1.gif. Just set the PageUZO_Solution.Visible property to True in the Menu_PageActivated function.

Also, use the Script Manager to view the Globals of the PageUZO script. Look for PageUZO_Solution on the left, click on it to show its properties and just set Visible to True. It's only a runtime value (it won't save when you close the game) but you can have some live fun with the menu items :)

Mihai

[gutted]

What am i doing wrong?

I've enabled the modding stuff in the main.cfg. I'm running windowed mode... yet all the items are greyed out. How can i access the script manager?

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/gorey666/wtf_mod.jpg

[Chebawookee]

@ gutted: You have to edit the main.cfg file in your 'my documents\SH5\data\cfg\' Folder, not in the 'Ubisoft\ Silent Hunter 5\data\cfg' folder.

[gutted]

@ gutted: You have to edit the main.cfg file in your 'my documents\SH5\data\cfg\' Folder, not in the 'Ubisoft\ Silent Hunter 5\data\cfg' folder.

i know which one to edit. i can access the menu editor just fine. also, it's pretty obvious i edited the right one because of all the modding entries in the right click menu... but they are greyed out for some reason.

[Chebawookee]

Oh I see, I never tried it with an unedited file.

[gutted]

Apparantly its working now. go figure. I didn't do anything different.

[jimimadrid]

What am i doing wrong?

I've enabled the modding stuff in the main.cfg. I'm running windowed mode... yet all the items are greyed out. How can i access the script manager?


I have had the same problem. Read here.

That happens because you right-clicked the task-bar button while the game was loading, during which it doesn't process the messages from the OS. So when Windows asks which options are enabled, it doesn't get an answer in a timely manner so it disables all of them.

In short (as specified in the 'big' post), right-click on task-bar only when there is no loading bar on the screen.
I know you may get impatient with all the loading times, but let the game do its job when it's loading (and don't touch the mouse :))

[Therion_Prime]

the 'logic' lives in the page's .py file. For example:

you add a button to Pagelayout_Groupfeedback. Now to 'handle' that button you need to open up \data\Scripts\Menu\Page layout.py and add the necessary code to handle click events, mouse in/out, etc.

Thanks, but I don't get it.

For example where is the code for "Page XO_TDC_Dialog.ini" ? :hmmm:

[gutted]

I have had the same problem. Read here.

I had already read that and followed it to the T.

[Decoman]

Wondered if someone could point me in the right direction, now i have Vista 64 bit i cant find an DDS converter to work with it ive looked everywhere all the usuall ones dont work correctly with Vista 64 so now im a bit stumped here. DDS Converter was fine with my old xp rig but now im lost, ive got photoshop cs4 also but no joy there, any help appreciated.

Nvidia has a .dds photoshop plugin that works with 32bit photoshop.

I can open dds files, but when I tried saving as dds it wouldn't allow me for unknown reason. So I use TheCompressonator instead for saving to .dds file format.

I have been doing this so far:
a) Load dds file into photoshop and rework the image
b) Save as Tif
c) Load tif into Ati's "TheCompressonator" (32bit and 64bit software) and do "save as original = save as" to store file as dds file.
d) I preview dds files in windows with TheCompressonator.

When viewing dds files in TheCompressonator, make sure to right click the image and switch to RGBA if the file has an alpha channel, or stick with default RGB if the file has no alpha channel. Right clicking the image offer three modes. RGB, RGBA & Alpha.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/photoshop_dds_plugins.html (I think this is the phtososhp plugin)
http://ati.amd.com/developer/compressonator.html

TheCompressonator is available if one register on Amd/Ati's developer website, no confirmation email is even required. Just register and you can download their tools.

[TheDarkWraith]

Nvidia has a .dds photoshop plugin that works with 32bit photoshop.

I can open dds files, but when I tried saving as dds it wouldn't allow me for unknown reason. So I use TheCompressonator instead for saving to .dds file format.

I have been doing this so far:
a) Load dds file into photoshop and rework the image
b) Save as Tif
c) Load tif into Ati's "TheCompressonator" (32bit and 64bit software) and do "save as original = save as" to store file as dds file.
d) I preview dds files in windows with TheCompressonator.

When viewing dds files in TheCompressonator, make sure to right click the image and switch to RGBA if the file has an alpha channel, or stick with default RGB if the file has no alpha channel. Right clicking the image offer three modes. RGB, RGBA & Alpha.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/photoshop_dds_plugins.html (I think this is the phtososhp plugin)
http://ati.amd.com/developer/compressonator.html

TheCompressonator is available if one register on Amd/Ati's developer website, no confirmation email is even required. Just register and you can download their tools.

do a google search for: dds_converter_v21.exe. Great program! :up:

Also if you use Photoshop CS4 64bit the nVidia DDS plug-ins don't work (bug with 64 bit version) but they do work with the 32 bit version which sucks for me since I have the 64 bit version.

[skwasjer]

@maerean_m, is there a way to have completely 'new' .py scripts to autoload when the game starts, without the need to hook into a stock .py file and calling "MakeSureIsLoaded( MenuPageWrapper.InitializeScript.Now )" (I have made a blank/empty Page in menu editor). I have completely isolated functionality and would like to be able to install my mod without overwriting a stock file (which could potentially conflict with other mods).

[TheDarkWraith]

@maerean_m, is there a way to have completely 'new' .py scripts to autoload when the game starts, without the need to hook into a stock .py file and calling "MakeSureIsLoaded( MenuPageWrapper.InitializeScript.Now )" (I have made a blank/empty Page in menu editor). I have completely isolated functionality and would like to be able to install my mod without overwriting a stock file (which could potentially conflict with other mods).

import it. In the Page Default Hud.py file add a line in InitializeScript:

from xxx import xxx
where xxx = name of page (i.e. Pageobsperiscope).
Oh you're probably wanting to have the game automatically import a new Page without having to use import huh?

[skwasjer]

Ya ;)

I really don't want to distribute a new Page Default Hud.py file for just one new line, when all of my code is in a seperate .py file and a DLL ;)

Currently I hooked via Page Background.py which is empty. But still, others may want to do so too, and then there's the drama of merging scripts. Being able to just dump a file in a folder and have it's initializer called would be alot easier for us...


[edit] Oh and import doesn't do the same thing as my little script above, I also need to invoke the script to run (at least, it doesn't work without it). Yea, I want an autoload folder of some sorts...

Currently my Page background.py file only does this... note, this is only to run the entire script in another file 'MyModule.py'. The target script does nothing UI related...


from MyModule import MyModule

def InitializeScript():
MyModule.MakeSureIsLoaded( MenuPageWrapper.InitializeScript.Now )

def StartGame():
pass

def EndGame():
pass

def UnloadScript():
pass


Really wish this wouldn't be necessary...

[Vorkapitan]

Hi Mates,

I'm trying to edit "Page Default Hud.py". What tools do I use?

I'm currently in the "menu editor" but can't find a reference to this file anywhere.

Thank you!

[skwasjer]

You can edit the scripts via the Script editor. Run the game in a window, then right click on the title bar to start the editor (one of the menu items). Each time you save the script it is reloaded so it's easy to test...

[Vorkapitan]

Sywasjer,

I was trying do do this "Open up Silent Hunter 5\data\scripts\menu\Page Default Hud.py
Search for:
def SetMiniMap( boolvalue ):
Look down a few lines and change these values to True:
Code:
PageDefaultHud_MapGroup_ParallelCourseButton.Visib le = False
PageDefaultHud_MapGroup_InterceptCourseButton.Visi ble = FalseThat's it."

I can't find it/or the method to do it.
Thanks for the info.

[gutted]

I'm sorta lost.

I was looking to add a thing or two into the UI. As a alittle "test" for myself i was just gonna do something simple like put an image onto the TDC page, and i was gonna have it rotate with the scope. Well I THOUGHT it would be pretty easy, as i have the mod that enables the TDC dials (by DarkWraith).. and i could just look at how the bearing dial works by peeking in the files that came with the mod.

No Joy.

I've got the graphic showing in-game no problem using the menu editor. But looking through the files that came with the TDC mod.. i just dont see where the bearing dial's hand is tied to the scope anywhere. I've looked through the .ini files, i've looked at the relevant scripts.. and i just dont see it.

If i could figure this one example out, it would go a long way to understanding how the UI modding works.

[reaper7]

Hi Gutted are you trying to port the AoB calculator into SH5. Nice good luck with it. :up:

Being going over this thread trying to figure out how to mod stuff into the UI, but its all gone over my head.
Maybe someone like a Dev or TheDarkWraith (No1 in UI mods to date) could do up a bacic tutorial on say getting in a custom dial and tying it into the interface. Hint hint... Please :|\\

[gutted]

I eventually intend to do that if i haven't given up on UI modding by then LOL.

Right now im just trying to figure it out, and see if i can get something spinning on the screen.

[SteveTRM]

These have obviously been left in by the devs - i personally dont think its a mistake by them - perhaps they where pissed with UBI soft aswell lol.

SH5 may have lots of bugs and many have moaned about its problems but to have access like this to a game is worth every penny i paid for it.

It has huge possiblities to the point where previous versions of Silent Hunter could be added to the game, i wonder how long it will be before some of the excellent modders here port over SH4 uboat missions lol

Perhaps SH5 will be the last in the series - but look what they have given us, all we need now is to get rid of the DRM!

[reaper7]

How do you import a 'stat bmp array'. Do not see anywhere to import bmp files only .dds files.
But when I try to import my own .dds files the editor crashes (windows 7).

[gutted]

what settings are you using to save the .dds?

I used DXT3 with no mipmaps and it loaded just fine. not really sure what the game expects though.

[reaper7]

Using the DDS plugin with Photoshop CS4, Exporting at DXT3 RGB 8bpp Interpolated Alpha, Likewise not sure the correct dds setting required but these worked ingame on the Recon Manual.
What prog are you using for dds files, I'm not convinced with the photoshop plugin.

[TheDarkWraith]

Using the DDS plugin with Photoshop CS4, Exporting at DXT3 RGB 8bpp Interpolated Alpha, Likewise not sure the correct dds setting required but these worked ingame on the Recon Manual.
What prog are you using for dds files, I'm not convinced with the photoshop plugin.

64 bit version of CS4? I have 64 bit version and can't get the DDS plugin to work. You're using the nVidia DDS plugin correct?

[gutted]

I used paint shop pro X2, with the nvidia plugin. it says it's a photoshop plugin, but works in paint shop pro (just had to google where to put it).

the setting i used was DXT3 ARGB 8bpp | explicit alpha /w no mimaps.

I had the transparent area loaded into the alpha channel, and it shows up fine in the menu editor, transparency and all.

[reaper7]

64 bit version of CS4? I have 64 bit version and can't get the DDS plugin to work. You're using the nVidia DDS plugin correct?

No 32bit, it seems very hit and miss though. Worked ok on on the *shipname*_sil.dds files but not on any psd files I try to convert to .dds using the same settings. :damn:

I used paint shop pro X2, with the nvidia plugin. it says it's a photoshop plugin, but works in paint shop pro (just had to google where to put it).

the setting i used was DXT3 ARGB 8bpp | explicit alpha /w no mimaps.

I had the transparent area loaded into the alpha channel, and it shows up fine in the menu editor, transparency and all.

I may try it with explicit alpha channels to see if that works.

Edit. No go getting up a "to many channels to export (5) error ???

2nd Edit: Found the error for above error. Even though I had merged layers in photoshop dds add-in appeared to see the layers even though they were no longer there. After selecting the flatten image command it allowed me to save.
Problem is its still crashing when I try to import dds file into editor. Do you need to define the size of the image before importing into editor?

[gutted]

no, after i loaded it int the editor i had to tweak the sizes to see it correctly.

[reaper7]

OK still having no luck getting this working.

I have created a dds file in Photoshop the file has an alpha layer.
Its exported as DXT3 ARGB 8bpp - explicit alpha and no mipmaps.
Now for the first import into the Editor I am using a selection of:
x=6, y=16, dx= 410, dy=892. This is the Selection for the Background Panel cover.

Photoshopped dds File with Alpha layer
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/TDC-DDS-Image-1.jpg?t=1268688069

I then open up the editor.

Goblin Editor
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/Editor.jpg?t=1268688147

In this I set up a new page called Test.
Then I create a new controls group called TDC Test.
(I drag yellow selection to the top left corner and drag out its size)
Next I create a Control - Static BMP called Panel (So far so good).
(I give it the ordinates of x=6, y=761, dx=410, dy=892)
Now I select the image file I wish to import the selection from
ie the .dds file from above that contains the image set.

At this point the Editor locks up and crashes to desktop. :damn:

Any idea where I'm going wrong. I'm attempting to learn how to import dial and stuff into the UI in the hope of someday creating a Hi-Res interfaces.
Although the phyton stuff might scare me of before then. :)

[reaper7]

Right I've redone all the above steps but this time I selected a .dds image file from TheDarkWrights UI mod and it loaded the selection OK tried it with a couple of other dds files and the loaded OK too.
For the life of me I can't figure out whats wrong with the dds file I created.
Is anyone else using the dds plug-in for Photoshop if so what settings are you using. Or can you recommend a reliable converter for dds files that work with psd files?

[gouldjg]

Is there a decent .zon editor avaialble. The one supplied with sh5 game just crashes. I think it was used for Sh3 .zon but not sh5 but cant be positive.

I basically want to see all the ship sections and edit damage values and re-size zones etc.

[Decoman]

Edited

Q: What file or type of files should I look for, when finding out how the graphics for the torpedo tubes are positioned, on the system torpedo menu?

Linky, png image showing the menu editor (http://www.decoman.net/linked/code.png)

I want to either change the width of a piece of the graphics by scaling, or simply draw new graphics in a free area on the current texture file, and correct the positioning in the code.

Here is a problem I have, when trying to replace old torpedo graphics, with new ones that are some pixels wider:
The dark overlay graphics seen when reloading a torpedo tube, is located in a different .dds file than the one the torpedoes are in.
The dark overlay graphics, seem to be currently limited to a certain amount of pixels in width. This overlay is currently scaled up, but still does not cover the width of my new torpedo. And I don't know how to either scale it wider, or to simply draw a new but wider overlay in the texture file at some different posision in the .dds file.

As I have modeled two different shapes for the new torpedoes, one for the gas turbine and the other being the electric one, the dark overlay will only fit one type of torpedo shpae, the way things work currently. But this will have to do. I am only interested in the width issue, the shape of the mask is not really a problem.

http://www.decoman.net/linked/torpcolors4.jpg

[reaper7]

Edited

Q: What file or type of files should I look for, when finding out how the graphics for the torpedo tubes are positioned, on the system torpedo menu?

Linky, png image showing the menu editor (http://www.decoman.net/linked/code.png)

I want to either change the width of a piece of the graphics by scaling, or simply draw new graphics in a free area on the current texture file, and correct the positioning in the code.

Here is a problem I have, when trying to replace old torpedo graphics, with new ones that are some pixels wider:
The dark overlay graphics seen when reloading a torpedo tube, is located in a different .dds file than the one the torpedoes are in.
The dark overlay graphics, seem to be currently limited to a certain amount of pixels in width. This overlay is currently scaled up, but still does not cover the width of my new torpedo. And I don't know how to either scale it wider, or to simply draw a new but wider overlay in the texture file at some different posision in the .dds file.

As I have modeled two different shapes for the new torpedoes, one for the gas turbine and the other being the electric one, the dark overlay will only fit one type of torpedo shpae, the way things work currently. But this will have to do. I am only interested in the width issue, the shape of the mask is not really a problem.

http://www.decoman.net/linked/torpcolors4.jpg

I'm not sure if I've got what you are trying to do. But if its a case that your trying to enlarge the Black box that shows up when the torp is reloading.
Have you found the graphic for that image? If so not only would you have to make the black box larger to suit your new torp in a graphics editor but you would also have to remove that part of the alpha channel for it to show through.
And if your trying to make it smaller you do the opposite and add to the alpha channel.
Usually painting with white adds to the alpha channel and black removes.

[Decoman]

Have you found the graphic for that image?

This image show the result of two modded files. Torpedoes.dds & TorpedoPage.dds (contain the dark reload overlay and such).

This image show the ingame result. The new torpedo gfx look ok. Let's say for example that it allows for a width of 200px (there is a limit), but the reload gfx in the other file only allows for 180px width. The two files for the gfx doesn't allow other modding than using the rather short default torpedo length gfx, when used together. They have to match together, else it the reload animation will look wrong because the dark overlay doesnt match the full torpedo length. Btw, the problem here, is not me not knowing how to create an alpha channel btw, just to clear up a potential misunderstanding.

http://www.decoman.net/linked/torpcolors4.jpg

[reaper7]

Ah sorry misread what you were trying to do. Will have a look at those files and see if I can spot anything. What dir are they located in?

Ok found them, see what your getting at. In order to this your going to have to create a new Torpedopage.dds in the size you require then the Interesting bit is in the editor for the torpedo page you will have to resize the sta BMP or stat BMP array and link it to the cordinates of your new replacement Torpedopage.dds file.
I'm just starting to mess around with the editior so I can't ealy explain how it works, TheDarkWraite is the expert on that here. What he's done with the replacment UI is basically similar to what you need to do.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5451/menueditor.png

[Madox58]

On the subject of doing new Units.
I don't need to export the old Units.
That's a waste of my time.

I can create New Units in GR2 format and implant them with Hex Editing.
Done that already.

It's the other Nodes I'm after now.
Like bomb placement nodes and such.

Any info?
:hmmm:

[reaper7]

What programs and setting are ye guys using to create a .dds file from scratch.
I have been messing about in Photoshop and Gimp and creating a 512x512 RGB/8 bit image, on this I place a simple dial pic of 128x128 select it as a selection and create an alpha channel from it.
Alpha looks good (Dial is solid white - Background Solid Black).
Save it to .dds from within both programmers an a DXT3 no mipmaps.
Now Going into the editor and bringing up a page e.g Page TDC and selecting a dial face I can import an image from other .dds files no problem but as soon as I try to crop the image from my file the Editor crashes.
I've been trying this for 3 days solid and can't get any further.
I really want to create my own .dds files rather that using other peoples from mods or from stock images with SH5.

Any suggestion's. Its most likely something I'm doing wrong creating the image. Either with the attributes of the image or the settings when exporting to .dds. :damn:

[TheDarkWraith]

What programs and setting are ye guys using to create a .dds file from scratch.
I have been messing about in Photoshop and Gimp and creating a 512x512 RGB/8 bit image, on this I place a simple dial pic of 128x128 select it as a selection and create an alpha channel from it.
Alpha looks good (Dial is solid white - Background Solid Black).
Save it to .dds from within both programmers an a DXT3 no mipmaps.
Now Going into the editor and bringing up a page e.g Page TDC and selecting a dial face I can import an image from other .dds files no problem but as soon as I try to crop the image from my file the Editor crashes.
I've been trying this for 3 days solid and can't get any further.
I really want to create my own .dds files rather that using other peoples from mods or from stock images with SH5.

Any suggestion's. Its most likely something I'm doing wrong creating the image. Either with the attributes of the image or the settings when exporting to .dds. :damn:

Have you tried using the Microsoft DirectX texture tools from the DirectX SDK (DxTex.exe)? You can use it to create .dds files and to view the alpha channels. See if you can load your created image using that SDK application.

[Anvart]

On the subject of doing new Units.
...
I can create New Units in GR2 format ...

Using 3ds Max (2008 as ex.) and Granny exporter...?
:cool:

[urfisch]

Using 3ds Max (2008 as ex.) and Granny exporter...?
:cool:

yes, that would be interesting...if this works!

[Madox58]

Using 3ds Max (2008 as ex.) and Granny exporter...?
:cool:

Yes.
3D Max 9 and Granny exporter.
:cool:

[urfisch]

9? that hasnt worked for me...which exporter did you use?

[reaper7]

Have you tried using the Microsoft DirectX texture tools from the DirectX SDK (DxTex.exe)? You can use it to create .dds files and to view the alpha channels. See if you can load your created image using that SDK application.


Yes, Yes, Yes finally figured out what the problem was.
My images and Alpha channels were fine all along. The problem was my file location, as I was creating my own images from scratch I had saved them into My Documents folder. SH5 Editor does NOT like this, once saved into the data/Menu/GUI/ folder in the SH5 director it loaded up ok 'No crash'.
Hence the reason it would load dds files from other mods and not mine.

:yeah:Finally.

[etheberge]

Guys,

I'm trying to find a way to edit/change the location names on the nav map and also the icons representing the contacts (merch, warships, planes,etc). The main idea would be to do something like TMO plot to remove the course tails, contact types, etc.

With SH4 all these used to be DDS files but now it seems all or most of it has been replaced with .shp files. My googling indicates that these are shapefiles, a standard used to draw shapes and polygons with spatial coordinates "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile".


1
TexturaGreyTarget.dds
88
0.0510535 0.935238 0.0
-5.72205e-006 0.935238 0.0
-5.72205e-006 0.571359 0.0
0.0510664 0.571359 0.0
0.0510592 0.694062 0.0
0.195963 0.66889 0.0
0.329418 0.616365 0.0
0.448348 0.539564 0.0
0.549675 0.441557 0.0
0.630332 0.325429 0.0
0.687236 0.194242 0.0
0.717314 0.0510774 0.0
0.571348 0.0510802 0.0
0.571363 -0.0510654 0.0
0.720862 -0.0510654 0.0
0.698918 -0.204501 0.0
0.646484 -0.345749 0.0
0.567108 -0.471264 0.0
0.46433 -0.577504 0.0
0.341703 -0.660914 0.0
0.202766 -0.717956 0.0
0.0510664 -0.745081 0.0
0.0510693 -0.571348 0.0
Does anyone know how to open and edit these types of files? I've found a few editors on line but I couldn't open the SHV files with any of them.

I also looked at the Goblin editor, the mission editor and the menu editor just in case but I didn't find anything related.

Any information would be appreciated.

[Safe-Keeper]

Okay, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but this is all I get:http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r292/safe-keeper/Window.jpg?t=1268863802
Running XP, with skin reverted to Windows standard, and I know I've edited the main.cfg file because I've checked twenty times by now. Is it important which folder I isntall the game to? Because my install is in D:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Cfg.

Either way, my "Developing" entry looks like this:[DEVELOPING]
Modding=Yes
MenuEditor=Yes
DebugScripts=Yes
I'm an expert at missing tiny little things, so please point out to me what I've managed to overlook this time:O:.

[bigboywooly]

When the tails were removed in SH3 it was using either the Contline or Dashline tgas

[bigboywooly]

Okay, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but this is all I get:http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r292/safe-keeper/Window.jpg?t=1268863802
Running XP, with skin reverted to Windows standard, and I know I've edited the main.cfg file because I've checked twenty times by now. Is it important which folder I isntall the game to? Because my install is in D:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Cfg.

Either way, my "Developing" entry looks like this:[DEVELOPING]
Modding=Yes
MenuEditor=Yes
DebugScripts=Yes


Done both main cfgs ?
My documents\SH5 AND Data\Cfg

And game has to load fully before available

[Safe-Keeper]

There's two of them?

Right, see what I mean:DL? Thank you for pointing that out to me, anyhow:up:.

[Madox58]

9? that hasnt worked for me...which exporter did you use?


I'm exporting from Max 9 to a GR2 file.
I've no interest in exporting from the SH5 files at this time.
It's getting a proper import done that is important.
I'm useing the Granny exporter from a link a page or 2 back.
:03:

[Safe-Keeper]

Problem solved, thanks for the assist.

[Arclight]

Anyone tried the zone-linking in Goblin yet? Any info on what it does or how it works?

(keeps telling me "cannot link a box to itself" when I try to link a "NFlotMain" to "NEngineRoom")

[Captain von Keldunk]

What version of IronPython is used for SH5:hmmm:
Is version 2.6 (latest stable)OK:hmmm:
Edit: hmm I think it is version 1.1.2

[Junglist]

1. How to change mouse sensitivity in this game?
2. Is it possible to tweak free camera for 2--4 levels of zoom, like periscopes or UZO have 2 levels of zooming. I wand wide ange, narrow and tele, for example 10 deg tele, 45 deg narrow and 75 deg wide FOV.

[Madox58]

Anyone tried the zone-linking in Goblin yet? Any info on what it does or how it works?

(keeps telling me "cannot link a box to itself" when I try to link a "NFlotMain" to "NEngineRoom")

Each Box is linked to a 3D object.
You can't link a damage Box to a damage Box as you found out.
You can place a new box inside an old box by attaching it to the same 3D object.

[java`s revenge]

I want to deepen me into modding. I want to make dutch navy ships.
Maybe this is the beginning.

[Arclight]

Can't do it, either tells me that or "only boxes can be linked". Either I don't get the procedure involved, or the links aren't showing up in the box (probably the former :haha:).

Is linking nescesary for proper functioning? I created a box that encased the superstructure and made a new entry in zones.cfg for it; worked as intended, without any linking involved. :doh:

[ERPP8]

oh my god, this is awesome!!!!!
I never knew how to use the mission editor!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Madox58]

Some new Source Code for NWN2 was released yesterday.
It includes Source Code concerning GR2 files.
Incase your nterested here's the link.
http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=721643&forum=119&sp=0

Also.
There is an exporter for EVE that exports to obj file format.
On testing it only the first mesh is exported.
However it does come with the Source Code.
Here's the link
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/evegr2toobj.2.zip
You may need to replace the older granny2.dll with the one in the SH5 folder.
Or error messages about wrong version popup.

[reaper7]

Ok, I have been trying to create a new Page into the editor with not much luck, and need some advice.

I have created a Copy basically of the TDC page and Called it Page TDC2 in the editor as a test.
This creates the relevant ini page in the Pages Folder (Page TDC2.ini). Ok.

I then Create a new script called Page TDC2.py
And edit it like the following : (My tabs are not showing up in the scripts when I paste them into forum)

def InitializeScript():
pass
def StartGame():
pass
def EndGame():
pass
def UnloadScript():
pass

Now as I want the Periscope to bring this page up in the game I edit the Page attack periscope.py file like this:

#Page attack periscope.py
from menu import *
def InitializeScript():
Menu.PageActivated += Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated += Menu_PageDeactivated
def StartGame():
pass
def Menu_PageActivated( page ):
if page == Pageattackperiscope:
from PageTDC2 import PageTDC2
PageTDC2.Visible = True
def Menu_PageDeactivated( page ):
if page == Pageattackperiscope:
from PageTDC2 import PageTDC2
PageTDC2.Visible = False
def UnloadScript():
Menu.PageActivated -= Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated -= Menu_PageDeactivated
def EndGame():
pass

These are placed into the correct folders and the game is launched.
Game loads ok, but when I activate the periscope the game freezes with the following script error.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/TDC2-Error.jpg

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong. I've no scripting experience but this appears to be the method as shown earlier in this thread.
The no module named TDC2 is baffling me, how do you create a module?:damn:

[Woodybcn]

Please, I've been sailing a few days on SH5 but I haven't heard any song from the radio because I don't know how it works! Please, let me know what button I must press.

Thank you.

[TheDarkWraith]

Ok, I have been trying to create a new Page into the editor with not much luck, and need some advice.

I have created a Copy basically of the TDC page and Called it Page TDC2 in the editor as a test.
This creates the relevant ini page in the Pages Folder (Page TDC2.ini). Ok.

I then Create a new script called Page TDC2.py
And edit it like the following : (My tabs are not showing up in the scripts when I paste them into forum)

def InitializeScript():
pass
def StartGame():
pass
def EndGame():
pass
def UnloadScript():
pass

Now as I want the Periscope to bring this page up in the game I edit the Page attack periscope.py file like this:

#Page attack periscope.py
from menu import *
def InitializeScript():
Menu.PageActivated += Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated += Menu_PageDeactivated
def StartGame():
pass
def Menu_PageActivated( page ):
if page == Pageattackperiscope:
from PageTDC2 import PageTDC2
PageTDC2.Visible = True
def Menu_PageDeactivated( page ):
if page == Pageattackperiscope:
from PageTDC2 import PageTDC2
PageTDC2.Visible = False
def UnloadScript():
Menu.PageActivated -= Menu_PageActivated
Menu.PageDeactivated -= Menu_PageDeactivated
def EndGame():
pass

These are placed into the correct folders and the game is launched.
Game loads ok, but when I activate the periscope the game freezes with the following script error.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/TDC2-Error.jpg

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong. I've no scripting experience but this appears to be the method as shown earlier in this thread.
The no module named TDC2 is baffling me, how do you create a module?:damn:

I see what you're trying to do and it won't work. The C++ code only allows dials on pages that already had dials on them. Sure you can add a dial to Page Default Hud but when you try to tie it to the the dial in the file dials.cfg it won't work. The game will not update the dial. It will be just a static bitmap. If you want to do TDC stuff then you have to keep the dials on PageTDC or use another page that already has dials on them.

[Heretic]

Hey DarkWraith, given what you've seen so far, what do you think the prospect of passing sim data to the AI scripts is? The menu stuff seemingly has all the depth, course, etc, info. There are python files that look to be an interface to the AI scripting in scripts folder. If that were possible, many cool things could be done.

[TheDarkWraith]

Hey DarkWraith, given what you've seen so far, what do you think the prospect of passing sim data to the AI scripts is? The menu stuff seemingly has all the depth, course, etc, info. There are python files that look to be an interface to the AI scripting in scripts folder. If that were possible, many cool things could be done.

if it's a python file and it's scripted should be fairly easy. I haven't looked into AI yet. Concentrating on UI. Have you researched the Script editor's included 'information'? You can see all classes and what properties, events, etc. are exposed to us. That is a gold mine :D

[Arclight]

No kidding. :lol:

I don't even understand python, but I definitely see the potential there.

See if I can make a battleship surrender to my u-boat. :arrgh!:


Seriously, those tools are a godsend. That debugger gives a look under the hood, see the AI operating. Goblin is much appreciated since I don't have 3D editor, working with the .zon files would be impossible without it.

:sunny:

[reaper7]

I see what you're trying to do and it won't work. The C++ code only allows dials on pages that already had dials on them. Sure you can add a dial to Page Default Hud but when you try to tie it to the the dial in the file dials.cfg it won't work. The game will not update the dial. It will be just a static bitmap. If you want to do TDC stuff then you have to keep the dials on PageTDC or use another page that already has dials on them.


Ah Ok, so I will have to use the original TDC page then. Thanks.

Have PM'ed this to maerean_m. But will post here in case anyone else could uptake.

"Hi maerean_m, can you tell me if there are any plans to do some simple tutorials on modding SH5.
This would be great for us newcomers to modding that are completly lost, even trying to understand what others have done with there mods is impossible as you cant tell whats been altered in some of the files.

For example a simple tutorial on how to introduce a single working dial eg the AOB dial into the User Interface.
This would show how to access the Editor, where to place the holders for the graphics, what .ini files are created and what scripts are required to introduce them into the game.
Just been able to see one solid example of how thing are done, would help people to go on from that and experiment."

[TheDarkWraith]

adding a single dial is a very simple evolution. If you want to teach yourself how do this:

using the menu editor:

we want to add the heading/rudder dial to PageTDC.

in Page layout find the Heading group (it's under Group feedback) and copy it's entire tree over to PageTDC. Now when I say the entire tree I'm talking about it's anchor group. What denotes an anchor group? The big 'G' in the box. For heading it's 'Heading'. Now if you just copy over heading and think you got a dial you are wrong. The 'whole' dial consists of 'Heading' - a Group, 'Rudder' - a Group, 'Toggle Rudder Heading Around' - a button, and 'Toggle Rudder Heading' - a button. How do I know this? Two ways. One is that when I click on each one I get a yellow outline box on the editor that shows me graphically that it's part of the whole dial. Two, as I click on each one in the menu editor and I look in the zone section I see that the anchor refers to some part of the dial (it doesn't have to but doing so keeps the coherency of the object). You'll notice that the button 'Toggle Rudder Heading' anchor is 'Bkgr'.
Now after you've copied all those items over to PageTDC you need to check their anchors. You'll notice that 'Toggle Rudder Heading' anchor is set to Null now. Why? Well before it referenced an item in Page layout but we're now in PageTDC so obviously that page doesn't exist here. I would set the 'Toggle Rudder Heading' anchor to the object on PageTDC that you want this dial to be anchored to. Best thing to do is set the anchors of all the copied objects to reflect the values of the object you copied from in the other page. After setting all the anchors to the values they should be, moving the 'Toggle Rudder Heading' will cause the whole dial to move with it (if all the anchors are setup to reference one another in the object). If one of the anchors is set to reference some other object then that part won't move when you move 'Toggle Rudder Heading'.
Okay so now we have a new dial on PageTDC. But how do we get the game to update it? That's the easy part. Go back to the page you copied this new dial from. I'll use the Heading/Rudder here as an example. For the game to update a dial it needs 3 pieces of information: the dial, the current value, and the new value. Open up the file \data\Menu\cfg\Dials.cfg. This is where we define the dials. Do a search for 'CompassFdbk'. This dial, [Dial22] is responsible for updating the 'Heading' dial in Page layout. How do I know this? Easy. Look at the values for CrtVal (current value), NewVal (new value), and Dial. They start with 3F (0x just means this is a hex value). If we go back to the menu editor and go to Page layout we see that it's ID is 3F000000. If we find the values for CrtVal, NewVal, and Dial on Page layout we see that they reference objects of the dial in question (parts of the Heading dial). Now if you correlate the CrtVal, NewVal, and Dial to the objects on the screen you can see what is controlling what. After you denote the correlation then add another entry to Dials.cfg at the bottom. Copy the whole entry for [Dial22] to the bottom and give it the next number in the chain (if you're using the stock file the next number will be 75. Now change the CrtVal, NewVal, and Dial IDs on this new entry to reflect the IDs of the dial on PageTDC. But wait we're not done yet. This dial has two states - Heading and Rudder. We have to create another entry in Dials.cfg. But what is this entry? Well I know that rudder needs to look like the entry [Dial21] (RudderFdbk). So copy the whole entry for [Dial21] to the bottom of Dials.cfg and give it the next number in the chain (would be 76 with stock file). Now these names - RudderFdbk, SpeedFdbk, etc. can be anything you want to call them for your new dials. Change the IDs of the new dial entry to reflect the object in PageTDC (parts of the Rudder dial). Don't forget to change the Dials.cfg's top number 'DialsNo=' to one plus the last entry in the chain of dials (it's zero based). For our example that line should read 'DialsNo=77'. Save the file.
Are we done yet? Nope. We have a new dial on PageTDC. The game will update it. But the game will not switch it between states - Heading/Rudder. Why? Because the original dial's 'Toggle Rudder Heading' ID is hard coded in the game. The game recognizes 'events' from that ID and responds to them. Your new 'Toggle Rudder Heading' ID means nothing to it. So you have to get creative and create some python code to make it switch states! :D Where do you place this python code? In PageTDC.py.

[reaper7]

:yeah: Thank you TheDarkWraith :yeah:

I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this, especially when your hard at work working your excellent mods.

This makes it great for us new guys, so much easier to figure out when there's a solid example in front - compared to trying to reverse engineer what others have already done. :up:
This is my first time getting involved in the modding scene, I'm usually the one sitting back waiting to see what some else does.
And with my only abilities on the graphics side, it can be hard to figure things out.

I've been spending the last 2-3 weeks going thru what has being released, thru the editor and trying to understand pyhton but its all going over my head.
So far I've only done graphic editing mods to the dds files. But with the help of the community I'm sure I'll be able to contribute a lot more in time.

Thanks again, its really appreciated. :yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

This makes it great for us new guys, so much easier to figure out when there's a solid example in front - compared to trying to reverse engineer what others have already done.

reverse engineering/ethical hacking is my second hobby ;)

[reaper7]

Thanks to TheDarkWraiths help in the previous post I've been learning from him the last 2 days. And have put together a tutorial on what I've learnt so far.
This should be of help to those starting to learn to Mod

Post can be found here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165968

:up:

[Thresher]

I've been using Granny Viewer to look at the crew models and animations. . . .

Heretic,

Are you actually using GV to see the animations in data/characters/animations?

I've been able to see tons of models/meshes, but haven't figured out how to apply an animation from that folder to a model.

BTW, thanks for all the instruction and great work!

[Heretic]

Heretic,

Are you actually using GV to see the animations in data/characters/animations?

I've been able to see tons of models/meshes, but haven't figured out how to apply an animation from that folder to a model.

BTW, thanks for all the instruction and great work!


Ok. Looks like you got the meshes in. That's the CharacterBodyParts.GR2 file. I right-click on the "Mesh List" tab and select "Hide All Meshes" so I don't have that huge mass. Then left click the Mesh List tab which shows a list of all the meshes so I can select the ones I want. I usually scroll all the way to the bottom and just select the first torso, pants, and head from there.

Then left click Animation List tab. Then click the grey bar that appears under it, it'll bring up a file window. Navigate to the character\animations folder, select whichever ones you want - you can select more than one. They'll then show up under Animation List just like the meshes did under Mesh list. Left-click the animation and it'll start playing in the window. If you don't have any meshes selected, you won't be able to see anything.


Hope that helps

[Thresher]

...They'll then show up under Animation List just like the meshes did under Mesh list. Left-click the animation and it'll start playing in the window. If you don't have any meshes selected, you won't be able to see anything.


Hope that helps

Works like a champ Heretic, Thank You Sir. For some reason I didn't realize each animation was running in its own little window in the list and clicking on it would animate the preview area. Too many days at sea squinting thru binocs I guess.

I find this all very robust, have made a crazy Ivan with my opinion of SH5, and can also see where mod integration could be a nightmare. I was actually in the process of doing my own scripting/crew additions when I ran across your MightyFine Crew. MightyFine Stuff! My stuff pales in comparison.

I see a project team on the horizon.

Thanks Again!

[reaper7]

Hi I've just started converting over my graphics from a Mod I have in progress.
I created the graphics in Photoshop and converted to dds using DXT3, but the compression I'm getting is terrible, I've tried all the options I can think of. These are the results. :damn:

DDS file on the Left: Origial PSD on the Right:
http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/DDS-Compression.jpg

As you can see there a lot of loss between the original and converted.
Is this Normal, was hoping for much better results.
Or is there a program that will give better results than the photoshop plugin?

[Arclight]

Maybe try DXT5, or switch to GIMP with dds plugin or Paint.net.

[reaper7]

Cheers Arclight, I'll give them a try. In this case Photoshop's just not cutting it. :)

[reaper7]

Sorry to double post, but I've just discovered something.

As you can see from my post above I've being having problems trying to convert to dds without incurring compression losses.

I tried all the compression options for DXT3 which was the dds format that everyone has listed as that required to import into SH5.
I tried all the other applications to see if the results would be better than photoshops, but they all had similar to worse results.

As I'm trying to create a High Resolution UI Mod the losses above were just not acceptable for the scale they were to be displayed at.
Not happy with the results, I started to mess with the .dds export setting in the DDS Photoshop Plugin - trying every export type and compression settings besides DXT3 and DXT5.
Importing each file type into the SH5 Editor.

I was very surprised to find this one actually worked and displayed perfectly in the Editor. (Alpha channels display perfectly as well)
Results are a 1:1 copy of the original PSD file, although file sizes for the dds file are just to big. The Following example has a file size of 4MB.
But the editor displays it with no problem.

dds export used was 32.32.32.32f ABGR 128 bpp / Floating Point. :yeah:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/HiResDDS.jpg

[Decoman]

Maybe we could create a floating point sky texture then? To remove the banding.

[reaper7]

Maybe we could create a floating point sky texture then? To remove the banding.

Being doing a load more testing and have found this gives the best results:
8.8.8.8 ARGB 32bpp | unsigned
File sizes are a lot better than 32.32.32.32f too so thats a bonus. :up:

[thfeu58]

Please, I need help :timeout:. How I come after the Game runs, the menu Editor is opened to load in the Game menu around a score. I come to here, but how further :hmmm:?

http://s3.directupload.net/images/100329/evva6t3o.gif (http://www.directupload.net)

[Arclight]

You do the editing there. You can acces all the pages from that point by navigating in the editor, and the window will update to show the components you selected and are working on.

You'll have to start the game without the menu editor if you want to actually load a mission. ;)

[thfeu58]

Thank you Arclight, if I a side to work on chooses, the window is updated. I can open the ScriptManager, the AIScriptDebugger, but with the TerrainEditor I fail. In a post of Urfisch I have read that this works only in land nearness. This is the point, how is it possible?

[Arclight]

When the little window pops up at game start-up asking if you want to start the menu editor, select "no". The game will start normally and you can load a mission, after that you can rightclick on the titlebar to bring up the other editors.

I'd disable the menu-editor unless you actually want to edit any menu's.

[thfeu58]

Yes, that's it :salute:!
Thank you!
Had I ever tried so, but the editors were inactive. Had probably done something wrong :hmmm:.
Now it's ok!

[TheDarkWraith]

With the tool from that site, it is possible to extract 3D data from GR2 and inport it into 3DSMax. The other way round from Max to GR2 should work with the Neverwinter Nights 2 Mod tools :smug:

Here I tried to get the La Pallice model into 3DSMax
http://s6b.directupload.net/images/100311/temp/a865gcow.png (http://s6b.directupload.net/file/d/2095/a865gcow_png.htm)

BTW:
Good job devs :up:, the La Pallice harbour layout now looks as near as in real life, although by today's time because in the 40's the harbor was a little different, but that could be possibly modded :cool:

what tool(s) did you use specifically? How did you do it? What version of 3DS max?

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm exporting from Max 9 to a GR2 file.
I've no interest in exporting from the SH5 files at this time.
It's getting a proper import done that is important.
I'm useing the Granny exporter from a link a page or 2 back.
:03:

this was done using freely available tools from Microsoft so don't anyone give me any crap about it :arrgh!: A .dll file provides services to programs that dynamically link to it during runtime. The way the .dll exposes what 'functionality' it has is through what it makes publicly available defined in exports in the file.

taking a look 'under the hood' of the granny2.dll file shows some interesting items available (exports). There are 1,014 functions available. Here are a few (some had a leading _ which for some reason the post underlined the whole thing):

285 3A 000942E4 GrannyFileInfoType
64 CA 00076A50 _GrannyBeginFile@20 (_GrannyBeginFile@20)
65 CB 00076D00 _GrannyBeginFileCompression@20 (_GrannyBeginFileCompression@20)
66 CC 000766B0 _GrannyBeginFileDataTreeWriting@16 (_GrannyBeginFileDataTreeWriting@16)
67 CD 00076A80 _GrannyBeginFileInMemory@16 (_GrannyBeginFileInMemory@16)
68 CE 00077360 _GrannyBeginLocalPoseAccumulation@16 (_GrannyBeginLocalPoseAccumulation@16)
69 CF 00077E60 _GrannyBeginMesh@20 (_GrannyBeginMesh@20)
123 103 00076D30 _GrannyCompressContentsOfFile@12 (_GrannyCompressContentsOfFile@12)
136 110 000769E0 _GrannyConvertFileInfoToRaw@8 (_GrannyConvertFileInfoToRaw@8)
137 111 00076A00 _GrannyConvertFileToRaw@8 (_GrannyConvertFileToRaw@8)
138 112 00079680 _GrannyConvertIndices@20 (_GrannyConvertIndices@20)
159 127 00077B40 _GrannyCreateMemoryFileReader@8 (_GrannyCreateMemoryFileReader@8)
160 128 00077B60 _GrannyCreateMemoryFileWriter@4 (_GrannyCreateMemoryFileWriter@4)
237 149 00076C90 _GrannyDecompressData@32 (_GrannyDecompressData@32)
238 14A 00076CD0 _GrannyDecompressDataChunk@24 (_GrannyDecompressDataChunk@24)
256 15A 00076AA0 _GrannyEndFile@8 (_GrannyEndFile@8)
257 15B 00076D90 _GrannyEndFileCompression@8 (_GrannyEndFileCompression@8)
258 15C 000766F0 _GrannyEndFileDataTreeWriting@4 (_GrannyEndFileDataTreeWriting@4)
259 15D 00076AE0 _GrannyEndFileRaw@8 (_GrannyEndFileRaw@8)
260 15E 00076B00 _GrannyEndFileRawToWriter@8 (_GrannyEndFileRawToWriter@8)
261 15F 00076AC0 _GrannyEndFileToWriter@8 (_GrannyEndFileToWriter@8)
459 21C 00077CD0 _GrannyGetMeshBytesPerIndex@4 (_GrannyGetMeshBytesPerIndex@4)
460 21D 00077CB0 _GrannyGetMeshIndexCount@4 (_GrannyGetMeshIndexCount@4)
461 21E 00077CE0 _GrannyGetMeshIndices@4 (_GrannyGetMeshIndices@4)
462 21F 00077BA0 _GrannyGetMeshMorphTargetCount@4 (_GrannyGetMeshMorphTargetCount@4)
463 220 00077C10 _GrannyGetMeshMorphVertexCount@8 (_GrannyGetMeshMorphVertexCount@8)
464 221 00077BE0 _GrannyGetMeshMorphVertexType@8 (_GrannyGetMeshMorphVertexType@8)
465 222 00077C80 _GrannyGetMeshMorphVertices@8 (_GrannyGetMeshMorphVertices@8)
466 223 00077CC0 _GrannyGetMeshTriangleCount@4 (_GrannyGetMeshTriangleCount@4)
467 224 00077BB0 _GrannyGetMeshTriangleGroupCount@4 (_GrannyGetMeshTriangleGroupCount@4)
468 225 00077BC0 _GrannyGetMeshTriangleGroups@4 (_GrannyGetMeshTriangleGroups@4)
469 226 00077C00 _GrannyGetMeshVertexCount@4 (_GrannyGetMeshVertexCount@4)
470 227 00077BD0 _GrannyGetMeshVertexType@4 (_GrannyGetMeshVertexType@4)
471 228 00077C70 _GrannyGetMeshVertices@4 (_GrannyGetMeshVertices@4)

Now if you use the granny viewer you'll notice that it gives you information that has to come from these functions. In theory, it should be possible to extract the mesh data and re-import new mesh data into the .gr2 files using the granny2.dll.
I found it interesting that the .gr2 files can be compressed (well it makes sense to save space).
Even more interesting is the _GrannyConvertFileToRaw. If the SH5 files are compressed and we uncompress them then we should be able to 'map' the .gr2 file to undestand it. There is code available that I found on the internet that does uncompress a .gr2 file to an uncompressed format using one of the functions from the granny2.dll file.
Now if you know how to look up what arguments a certain function 'takes' you can write code to use these functions ;)

[Heretic]

If a dev or someone knowledgable should happen to drop by, I'd really like know what the different values for Character Posture represent. The crew AI scripts reference values of A,B,C,D,and E for Wp:IsCharacterPosture(). Any info on what they mean would be greatly appreciated.

[Madox58]

The GR2 files are not compressed in SH5.
Open one with a Hex editor and you can see what plug-ins were used
on the 3DS Max 2010 system that exported them.

You can't read that info with Hex on a compressed file.
I can send you a compressed GR2 file if you wish to check.
:03:

However, the compressed files can be opened with Goblin.

[Anvart]

...
on the 3DS Max 2010 system that exported them.
...
???
3ds Max 10 <---> 3ds Max 2008

[reaper7]

* the FocusableMenuItem (button, check box, radio button) has 4 states: Disabled, Normal, Mouse Over, Pressed. So those are the colors for the 4 states.


I've being trying to create a Ckeckbox in the Menu Editor but The graphics does not display right.
I've created a 112x60 .dds file with 2 states for the switch (On and Off)
http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/Toggle-Switch.jpg
Now in the menu editor I add the Control type Ckeckbox.
Point it at the File above and it shows up as Tex Dim 112/60 ok.
I select then crop size in the Selected item dialog box as DX:60, DY:60.
I then set the start coordinates as X:1, Y:1 and this is what I get my graphics are cut nearly in half with No stretch selected.
http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/checkbox.jpg
What is going on :damn:
I have tried every value in the Tex Crop and still can not get the switch to display fully.

If I copy an existing Ckeckbox e.g. the AutoUpdate Ckeckbox for Auto/Manual switching and paste it in - it displays ok.
But if I recreate that Ckeckbox using exactly the same dimensions it displays in the Menu Editor, It gets cut up like my switch.

Somethings not working right In the Menu Editor when you create New Checkboxs. Is there a way around this. :06:

[RFB Team]

Whenever I try to edit a value in a drop-down box of the Goblin Editor, the drop down box flickers persistently, and when I try to make a choice from the drop-down options, they flash only briefly in the upper-left hand corner of my desktop. Is there a reason for this?

[Captain von Keldunk]

Whenever I try to edit a value in a drop-down box of the Goblin Editor, the drop down box flickers persistently, and when I try to make a choice from the drop-down options, they flash only briefly in the upper-left hand corner of my desktop. Is there a reason for this?
...................................
I have vista 32 bit, and for goblin editor, do not use themes setting is on, and use as adminstrator, and then no more flicker.:up:

[LukeFF]

...................................
I have vista 32 bit, and for goblin editor, do not use themes setting is on, and use as adminstrator, and then no more flicker.:up:

Excellent tip, thanks!

[TheBeast]

...................................
I have vista 32 bit, and for goblin editor, do not use themes setting is on, and use as adminstrator, and then no more flicker.:up:
Where do I disable Themes?:06:

[bigboywooly]

Where do I disable Themes?:06:

Right click the SH5 exe
Properties
Compatability

[Captain von Keldunk]

Right click the SH5 exe
Properties
Compatability
:DL Right click the GoblinEditorApp.:up:

[bigboywooly]

:DL Right click the GoblinEditorApp.:up:

Doh :damn:

[mangaroca]

With the tool from that site, it is possible to extract 3D data from GR2 and inport it into 3DSMax. The other way round from Max to GR2 should work with the Neverwinter Nights 2 Mod tools :smug:

Here I tried to get the La Pallice model into 3DSMax
http://s6b.directupload.net/images/100311/temp/a865gcow.png (http://s6b.directupload.net/file/d/2095/a865gcow_png.htm)

BTW:
Good job devs :up:, the La Pallice harbour layout now looks as near as in real life, although by today's time because in the 40's the harbor was a little different, but that could be possibly modded :cool:

I substituted the granny2.dll from the EVE Online Granny Exporter with the one from SH5 dir and tried importing the IIA boat model. The operation was completed with no crash or "bad/sad" message. However, after importing an .obj file into 3DS Max 2010 I only got "part" of the model - the conning tower. :nope:

Also, the .obj file is much smaller than the corresponding .gr2 file but it could mean nothing. Nevertheless, I suspect some 3D data is missing from the converted model file. I could be importing it wrong into the 3DS Max (many options there) but I don't think it's the case.

Any idea how to get it right?

PS. I know the tendency at the moment is to learn how to EXPORT new model/model elements into a .gr2 file but importing is also... important.:smug:

Thanks!

[Arclight]

Not sure, but I think the boat and CT have separate models. So the game can use different CTs; change them on the fly as an upgrade during game. :hmmm:

[tonschk]

:yeah: Thank you urfisch :salute: :rock:

[wittmann]

Hi all!

U-Jagd tools mod will not be translated to SH5?

[Obelix]

Hi people.
Guys, but how and what you do editing files *.RAW?
Need to edit the map files, but photoshop does not work properly to save the changes.

[Obelix]

Hi people.
Guys, but how and what you do editing files *.RAW?
Need to edit the map files, but photoshop does not work properly to save the changes.
The question is removed, the problem is solved.
Thank you for your attention

[Obelix]

Hi
People, tell me please, where sets the color of fonts?
It is necessary to change the color of some text on the navigation map.
Thank's

[Obelix]

Sorry for the trouble to find a solution to this problem:salute:

[lavr]

Hey mates,
Could anybody suggest me,where to look if I want to adjust AOBF scale? I is about TheDarkWraith UI mode, but his vertical scale does not work for me. I would appreciate any advise how I can change a distance between marks for periscope scale when AOBF is active.
Thank you.

[RdJ]

I'm trying to add a script file to the game, but it doesn't show up in the script manager...

How should I configure .ini-file(s) and where should my script be placed?

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm trying to add a script file to the game, but it doesn't show up in the script manager...

How should I configure .ini-file(s) and where should my script be placed?

what exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to create a new page? What is this script for? Are you trying to load it from another script?

[RdJ]

what exactly are you trying to do? Are you trying to create a new page? What is this script for? Are you trying to load it from another script?

What exactly is a page?

And it's for speech recognition. (I know there is a mod for that already, but that one doesn't work for me :( )

[TheDarkWraith]

What exactly is a page?

And it's for speech recognition. (I know there is a mod for that already, but that one doesn't work for me :( )

In order to get a .py file to show in the Script editor it has to have a page (a .ini file) with the same name as the script. The page would be located in \data\Menu\Pages. If you open up the menu editor you can create the new page. It can be blank, just click on the root in menu editor and select add new page. Give it the correct name.

[RdJ]

In order to get a .py file to show in the Script editor it has to have a page (a .ini file) with the same name as the script. The page would be located in \data\Menu\Pages. If you open up the menu editor you can create the new page. It can be blank, just click on the root in menu editor and select add new page. Give it the correct name.

And I have to put the script in \data\Scripts\Menu ?

[TheDarkWraith]

And I have to put the script in \data\Scripts\Menu ?

correct :up:

[RdJ]

And page ID?

[TheDarkWraith]

And page ID?

Give it some number in the 50's. Any number in the 10s will cause the game to crash. Open up menu_1024_768.ini (\data\Menu\Pages) and search for all the 5x numbers. Pick a 5x number that isn't used.

[RdJ]

Give it some number in the 50's. Any number in the 10s will cause the game to crash. Open up menu_1024_768.ini (\data\Menu\Pages) and search for all the 5x numbers. Pick a 5x number that isn't used.

It works. Thank you ;)

[RdJ]

Edit: how can I get the installation directory as string?

[RdJ]

Anyone?

[TheDarkWraith]

Anyone?

You can query the user's registry for it like I do in my UIs mod to gather all the ship's mast height data

[Truckerich]

these scripts are great. put the scripts in your MOD folder. That's all I did. I see a couple of gears upper right below the Casptians Log. I click it and there is 7 Patrol Scripts you can choose from. First I thought my boat was going crazy. It automatically dived, crused different speeds, jumpedf into the UZO and done a 360 search and also does different patterns. To Cool! I'm scared to install another script because if says it interfers with my UI's TDC 4.0.3 The Wraiths Mod so I didn't put it in. I guess there is 3 or 4 Different Scripts you can put in your MOD folder.

Anyone?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I'm scared to install another script because if says it interfers with my UI's TDC 4.0.3 The Wraiths Mod so I didn't put it in. I guess there is 3 or 4 Different Scripts you can put in your MOD folder.

It is extremely unlikely that any script author on this forums would write a script conflicting with TDW's mod. However any script mod will give you a warning when installed using JSGME - that's simply because the mod uses the same folder as TDW's scripts (it has to). You can safely ignore the warning and test any non-TDW-native script mods safely.

[RdJ]

You can query the user's registry for it like I do in my UIs mod to gather all the ship's mast height data

Thanks, I got it to work :)

Now, I have a new issue :damn:
class MyServer(DdeServer):
def __init__(self,service):
base.service = service

def InitializeScript():
# --- Start: Initialize DDE server --- #
global SpeechServer
SpeechServer = MyServer("shspeech")
# --- End: Initialize DDE server --- #


Everytime, it says: MyServer() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given)

I've tried giving more arguments, but that doesn't work...

[RdJ]

Anyone?

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks, I got it to work :)

Now, I have a new issue :damn:
class MyServer(DdeServer):
def __init__(self,service):
base.service = service

def InitializeScript():
# --- Start: Initialize DDE server --- #
global SpeechServer
SpeechServer = MyServer("shspeech")
# --- End: Initialize DDE server --- #


Everytime, it says: MyServer() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given)

I've tried giving more arguments, but that doesn't work...

you're trying to call the base class the incorrect way. You should do it this way:

super( MyServer, self ).service = service

[Abd_von_Mumit]

In a mod I'm makin I use TGAs from SH3 and SH4. I convert them to DDSs using GIMP + dds plugin. In game though they don't seem to be anti-aliased enough - I think I could achieve better visual results. What should I do when converting them? Right now the set of options when converting looks like that:

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4959/ddssaveoptions.jpg

I use "Bilinear" mipmap filtering, as I read in TDW's post that "Bilinear filtering" is the setting he used in his mod for graphics to be anti-aliased properly.

EDIT:
Using Photoshop in the convertion process is an option to me, if I knew the results would be better - luckily I have access to it.

[TheDarkWraith]

The filtering I used was declared in the .ini files. When you add new items to .ini files via menu editor it doesn't set the filtering. You have to edit the .ini files and change the values to make it use filtering.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

The filtering I used was declared in the .ini files. When you add new items to .ini files via menu editor it doesn't set the filtering. You have to edit the .ini files and change the values to make it use filtering.

I just substitute existing game .dds files with new ones, without editing .ini files (only 1 .cfg file is edited). I also want it to stay that way for simplicity and full compatibility with any other mods - as I understand editing .ini files would greatly increase chances of incompatibility with other mods.

[SteelViking]

My advice for anti-aliasing images(if it is critical), is to scale them up by factor 2 from stock, and apply a Gaussian blur factor <or= to 0.7. Then apply an unsharp filter of 0.10 or greater. All this can be done in GIMP. Plus, you will get slightly better quality if you use gamma corrected mipmaps.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

My advice for anti-aliasing images(if it is critical), is to scale them up by factor 2 from stock, and apply a Gaussian blur factor <or= to 0.7. Then apply an unsharp filter of 0.10 or greater. All this can be done in GIMP. Plus, you will get slightly better quality if you use gamma corrected mipmaps.

Thank you very much. I can't apply this procedure to the files I'm working on right now, but will save this tip for later. :up:

[SteelViking]

Thank you very much. I can't apply this procedure to the files I'm working on right now, but will save this tip for later. :up:

Ah, are you working on images for the UI? If so, you can still use a similar procedure. Skip the scaling(since it won't work) and do the other 3 things, using values half as big as I recommended. That should still help a pretty good deal.

Also, though you did not have it set to save the images compressed in that screen shot, it is imperative that you not save any image file with a compression unless it is gigantic. Saving with compression, no matter how high quality of a compression you use will damage/distort the image. It will do this in GIMP and in PS.

[RdJ]

you're trying to call the base class the incorrect way. You should do it this way:

super( MyServer, self ).service = service

I get the same error when I do that...

[Abd_von_Mumit]

For my Map Tools mod - do map tools, which are only displayed in one, base size, need mipmaps at all? :hmmm: Wouldn't it be better resources-wise to get rid of mipmaps in dds files?

And IF mipmaps are not needed and safe (for every configuration - this is a must condition), do we need the map tools in dds format? Dds files are 35% bigger than identical tgas.

[TheDarkWraith]

For my Map Tools mod - do map tools, which are only displayed in one, base size, need mipmaps at all? :hmmm: Wouldn't it be better resources-wise to get rid of mipmaps in dds files?

And IF mipmaps are not needed and safe (for every configuration - this is a must condition), do we need the map tools in dds format? Dds files are 35% bigger than identical tgas.

mipmaps are only needed for rendering at different X,Y,Z values from camera. Since these tools are not being drawn at different distances there's no need for mipmaps. Game can use TGA or DDS format.

[SteelViking]

For my Map Tools mod - do map tools, which are only displayed in one, base size, need mipmaps at all? :hmmm: Wouldn't it be better resources-wise to get rid of mipmaps in dds files?

And IF mipmaps are not needed and safe (for every configuration - this is a must condition), do we need the map tools in dds format? Dds files are 35% bigger than identical tgas.

mipmaps are only needed for rendering at different X,Y,Z values from camera. Since these tools are not being drawn at different distances there's no need for mipmaps. Game can use TGA or DDS format.

Exactly like TDW said. When I told you that gamma corrected mipmaps would help out quality a bit, I did not realize that you were working on images for the UI.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

mipmaps are only needed for rendering at different X,Y,Z values from camera. Since these tools are not being drawn at different distances there's no need for mipmaps. Game can use TGA or DDS format.

Much appreciated. Thank you! :salute:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

With every tiny mod I make my appetite for more serious modding grows. I hope to find a cure soon, as this actually keeps me out of game :har:, but got a question:

Is it possible (makeable) to have a draggable tool consisting of 3 elements overlapping each other (half-transparent), where one is fixed (is a "base" of the tool) and the 2 others move freely to sides (in 1 axis only, horizontal), where freely means when dragged with mouse coursor (part #2 moves independently of part #3)? :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

With every tiny mod I make my appetite for more serious modding grows. I hope to find a cure soon, as this actually keeps me out of game :har:, but got a question:

Is it possible (makeable) to have a draggable tool consisting of 3 elements overlapping each other (half-transparent), where one is fixed (is a "base" of the tool) and the 2 others move freely to sides (in 1 axis only, horizontal), where freely means when dragged with mouse coursor (part #2 moves independently of part #3)? :hmmm:

I did that in my attack disc front side....take a look at it :03: It's a little complicated to do but it can be done.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I did that in my attack disc front side....take a look at it :03: It's a little complicated to do but it can be done.

Somehow I knew it would be you to answer - you're an invaluable asset, SubSim community should catch you, keep in an isolated glass tank, feed and make you work harder. :D

Back to topic: your attack disc and the bits of information you dropped about how it was made actually incepted me with the idea described above. However you mentioned a few times, that the movable parts of AD are attached to circular indicators (variables?), and that you are already out of these variables for use with other interface elements. The tool I'm thinking about (a slipstick) would make little sense without the Attack Disc as well - or, rephrased: Attack Disc is more valuable a tool to have than a slipstick (it is my opinion, I know some would not share it - it's quite irrelevant now though).

So the question is - could we have such tool as an addition, without getting rid of the Attack Disc? The important part of its description is: none of the parts needs to be (or even could be) attached to any sub related value/dial.

[TheDarkWraith]

Somehow I knew it would be you to answer - you're an invaluable asset, SubSim community should catch you, keep in an isolated glass tank, feed and make you work harder. :D

Back to topic: your attack disc and the bits of information you dropped about how it was made actually incepted me with the idea described above. However you mentioned a few times, that the movable parts of AD are attached to circular indicators (variables?), and that you are already out of these variables for use with other interface elements. The tool I'm thinking about (a slipstick) would make little sense without the Attack Disc as well - or, rephrased: Attack Disc is more valuable a tool to have than a slipstick (it is my opinion, I know some would not share it - it's quite irrelevant now though).

So the question is - could we have such tool as an addition, without getting rid of the Attack Disc? The important part of its description is: none of the parts needs to be (or even could be) attached to any sub related value/dial.

you can share dials - i.e. multiple items can use the same dial. Therefore you could make your new tool and link the discs to any dial. You have to link them to a dial to get them to rotate with mouse or you can use keys to rotate the discs.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

you can share dials - i.e. multiple items can use the same dial. Therefore you could make your new tool and link the discs to any dial. You have to link them to a dial to get them to rotate with mouse or you can use keys to rotate the discs.

Bad news. Binding them to dials would render the tool much less useful. It would also be too much time consuming to use it - it's supposed to be handy, not a torment.

What about 3 independent mouse-draggable elements that can be moved only in horizontal dimension? (X-axis?) This would simulate the tool better than keyboard keys.

[TheDarkWraith]

Bad news. Binding them to dials would render the tool much less useful. It would also be too much time consuming to use it - it's supposed to be handy, not a torment.

What about 3 independent mouse-draggable elements that can be moved only in horizontal dimension? (X-axis?) This would simulate the tool better than keyboard keys.

dials can be linear instead of circular so yes should be possible. Having 3 mouse-draggable elements is not possible - or I should say would require much testing and trying to make it work if it's even possible to do

[Abd_von_Mumit]

dials can be linear instead of circular so yes should be possible. Having 3 mouse-draggable elements is not possible - or I should say would require much testing and trying to make it work if it's even possible to do

Realistically, as a non-programmer, can I ever figure this magic out, in a time not tending to infinity? And if yes - where should I start, from learning what tool? Right now this area is a black hole for me.

EDIT:
This is the toold I'm talking about (scales would need to be different):
http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/html/sims/javaslide/

[KarlKoch]

Okay guys, i think i need some help. I want to work on a radio traffic mod, but i can't seem to find where the page layout for the incoming radio message is defined. I am talking about this screen:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/radiomessagesr5cg.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=radiomessagesr5cg.png)
Another thing is how to get the actual sub-identification ingame. Like U-47, for example. Maybe someone can help me with that.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

In my map tools mod I thought it would be good to reduce somewhat number of files used - some tools are identical, so there's no need to store 2-4 independent files when just one would be enough. So I tested this (of course I also changed file names), but this CTDs the game without any error message just before Menu screen would show up:

Instead of [original mouse.cfg]:

[Cursor 11]
Name=PencilExt

[Cursor 12]
Name=LineExt

[Cursor 13]
Name=SquareExt

[Cursor 14]
Name=CompassExt

[Cursor 16]
Name=ProtractorExt


I tried this:

[Cursor 11]
Name=EQuaToolPencil

[Cursor 12]
Name=EQuaToolStandard

[Cursor 13]
Name=EQuaToolStandard

[Cursor 14]
Name=EQuaToolStandard

[Cursor 16]
Name=EQuaToolStandard


My question is - WHY? :hmmm:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I need to check what colours on the NavMap correspond with depths. Is there any particular file I could use to extract this information? I know I can just sail around checking depth and doing colour checks/measurements, but I hoped to use a simpler and less error-prone approach. Thanks.

[Obelix]

I need a help:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=354&pictureid=3095
How to change the attach of nomograph from the bottom right corner to the upper right?
At any screen resolution the nomograph should remain in the upper right corner.

[TheDarkWraith]

anchor=to the page you are using
ary = 1
dry = -1
arx = 1
drx = -1

that will put it in the top right corner providing the image is correct (not offset on a larger canvas size)

[ustahl]

I need to change the aspect ratio of a 4:3 format .bik video file to better fit a 16:9 widescreen; ie. I want to stretch the video sideways.:hmmm:

The situation I need to solve is described here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163605&page=3 in post 37, in case the original guys are not around here any longer...:timeout:

[Obelix]

Please tell me which files to run the boot screen missions, and images are displayed at startup (\data\Menu\Skins\German\Loading\Mission\)?

[Obelix]

Please tell me which files to run the boot screen missions, and images are displayed at startup (\data\Menu\Skins\German\Loading\Mission\)?

Oops! All elements of the loading screen missions operated from sh5.exe

[chrysanthos]

well i guess i have to wait until a playble battleship builds.....since i cant do it because no one helps:/

[MiTon]

Hello!

I hope it's the right place to ask, but I've got a problem triggering an action from a new checkbox. Maybe someone can help?

Here the situation:

To toggle SpeechRecognition on/off I created a new checkbox with the MenuEditor.
Located above the PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleAdvancedCk (NewUI)
It's showing ingame and I can click it.

The coressponding Lines in Page Default Hud.ini look like this:


[G0A I278]
Name=ToggleSpeechRecCk
Type=1033;Check box
ItemID=0xA1E0001
ParentID=0xA1E0000
Pos=253,-4,18,20
Zone= 255 46 18 20 0 1 0xA1E0000 0.952727 -0.29 0xA1E0001 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Materials=8
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 0=0.178711,0.105469,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 1=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 1=0.178711,0.128906,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 2=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 2=0.178711,0.105469,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 3=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 3=0.178711,0.128906,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 4=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 4=0.178711,0.105469,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 5=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 5=0.178711,0.128906,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 6=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 6=0.178711,0.105469,0.0175781,0.0195313
Mat 7=data/menu/gui/layout/hud3.dds
Crop 7=0.178711,0.128906,0.0175781,0.0195313
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0
Font=21
Text=0
TextPosFlags=0x2
TextOffsetY=8,8,8,8
TextFlags=0x0
CheckBoxWidth=0
StatesColors=0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FFIn Page Default Hud.py I added the these lines (the ... arent' there :))

from SpeechRecognition import ToggleSpeechRecognitionOnOff

...

def PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleSpeechRecC k_Clicked():
ToggleSpeechRecognitionOnOff()

...

def InitializeScript():

....

PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleSpeechRecC k.Clicked += PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleSpeechRecC k_Clicked

...

def UnloadScript():

...

PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleSpeechRecC k.Clicked -= PageDefaultHud_Feedback_BottomBar_ToggleSpeechRecC k_Clicked
Now I' getting namespace errors:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=471&pictureid=3841

So what went wrong importing Speech Recognition.py???

Called from Speech Recognition.py the command is working like expected!

What's the minimum of code needed for a new button like this? What did I miss?

What would be needed if I wan't to add a new group?

Thanks in advance!

Greets

MiTon

[TheDarkWraith]

If SpeechRecognition hasn't been 'opened' yet then it isn't initialized/valid. You must initialize it first either by opening it or using the MakeSureIsLoaded function of the ScriptManager.

[MiTon]

Thx for sharing your knowledge TDW!
It's realy appreciated!

Sorry for these dumb questions! Have been awake for over 30 hours, so concentration dropped quite low:dead:
But I think I'm making slow but steady progress understanding Python and SH5 internals


I may be misunderstanding, but since SpeechRecognition is started by the initScript it should be initialized from start, cause I can use it "out of the box".

See here:

def InitializeScript():
if SHSpeechEngine.IsSupported:
global speech

Game.SubmarineCommands.CommandWasGiven += test_CommandGiven
Game.SubmarineCommands.DelayedCommandWasGiven += test_DelayedCommandGiven

try:

if speech == None:
speech = SHSpeechEngine("de-DE")
speech.Confidence = 0.70
speech.OrderReceived += speech_OrderReceived
speech.Start()

except:
passOk. Open like this:

from SpeechRecognition import SpeechRecognition
SpeechRecognition.Visible = True
"MakeSureIsLoaded".
The name sounds promissing, already.

Will give it a try!


I have an other question related to the MenuEditor!

Under "Item text" you can find a dropdow list for localized strings, which seems to read menu.txt. I added my strings there but they don't show up in the dropdownlist?


Is there an other place to define those strings or do I have to set them throughSpeechRecognition_SpeechRecognitionSettings _ConfidenceLevelText.Text = "TEST"
?

Could be a strange bug since I'm having an other issue, as you can read in my post to NewUI:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1626814&postcount=6956


Thx again!

[MiTon]

Hi there!

How can I import standard python modules? They don't seem to be available in the ScriptManager.
Is there a way?

For example, I'd like to use this:


import os.path
from os.path import abspath as abspath
If I have to build a custom dll, what IDE would you recommend? IronPython Studio, eclipse (pydev)?

regards


MiTon

[Xrundel]

Hello guys!
I need a little help - spent hrs trying to find info but failed.
Working with .dds files I am using Photoshop with nVidia plug-in installed
I also have DXTBMPX just in case.
I am puzzled by .dds files that after opening looks like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=4360

I am trying to make a dial more readable by photoshoping it - but how I can get into it with all those dials and gauges being in pile like this and everything is black/white?
There are bunch of other .dds files that opened just fine - so I am able to edit actual image in color.
Can someone kick me in the right direction on how to work properly with those files. I've noticed that most of them have "AO" in their file names.

[reaper7]

Hello guys!
I need a little help - spent hrs trying to find info but failed.
Working with .dds files I am using Photoshop with nVidia plug-in installed
I also have DXTBMPX just in case.
I am puzzled by .dds files that after opening looks like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=4360

I am trying to make a dial more readable by photoshoping it - but how I can get into it with all those dials and gauges being in pile like this and everything is black/white?
There are bunch of other .dds files that opened just fine - so I am able to edit actual image in color.
Can someone kick me in the right direction on how to work properly with those files. I've noticed that most of them have "AO" in their file names.

Hi that is actual a Shadow map texture for all the Dials etc ingame - you need to find the texture file for the dials you wish to change.
If its for the 3D views steelviking will be better to help you locate the relevant textures.
For the UI you will find them in data/menu/Gui/TDC or layout ;)

[Xrundel]

Thanks.
I am looking for radar_dial - it's an object behind radar wheel and it's very dark, especially bottom part from 90 degrees to 270 degrees - very hard to see bearing reading.
I've look everywhere, I even pulled up with search every .dds file that game have and went through them for like 2 hrs - still no luck. :cry:

[rickyves]

Ok....

[mwebbo]

After following the step by step instructions on mod instaltions i have failed. Despite the generic mod enabler saying they are active and double checking main.cfg selected to modding=yes. ive tried reading through as many threads as i can.
All my script is in word pad and i am using yes, you guessed it Windows 7
I know i am missing something simple but fundermentle!! can anyone help!!

Many thanks

[Vanilla]

Please disregard... solved the issue myself.

[Dignan]

Does anyone know what parameters in the hdr_underwater file I need to mess with to DECREASE water clarity? I think the environmental mods for this game are great but the water is far too clear. I want to make it more murky.

[quink99]

For the last week or so I've been sitting in the bunker rearranging my MOD list prior to starting a new career and setting sail. Before posting that list in another thread I ran the JSGME Mod Validator and while it said that all MODS were installed correctly there were several conflicts. I've attached a small portion of the conflict section here;



Mod conflicts:
+D = creation dates equal, -D = creation dates not equal
+A = last accessed dates equal, -A = last accessed dates not equal
+W = last accessed write dates equal, -M = last accessed write dates not equal
+S = sizes equal, -S = sizes not equal

Dynamic Environment SH5 BrighterNights V2.1 conflicts with Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (realistic version) V2.1
\data\Env\EnvColors_Polar.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Polar_A.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Polar_A_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Polar_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Temperate.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Temperate_A.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Temperate_A_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Temperate_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Tropical.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Tropical_A.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Tropical_A_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S
\data\Env\EnvColors_Tropical_luv.cfg -D -A -W +S

Dynamic Environment SH5 Sleet For Winter Campaigns V2.1 conflicts with Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (realistic version) V2.1
\data\scene.dat -D -A -W +S

Dynamic Environmental SH5 Realistic Colors V2.1 conflicts with Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (realistic version) V2.1
\data\Filters\ColorCorrection\hdr_exterior.cfg -D -A -W -S


My question, then, based on the above passage highlighted in yellow, is how can we use this information to try to eliminate MOD conflicts.

Any help in understanding this would be most appreciated.

[Silent Steel]

My question, then, based on the above passage highlighted in yellow, is how can we use this information to try to eliminate MOD conflicts.
Any help in understanding this would be most appreciated.

In this case - those optional mods for the Dynamic Environment Basemod are designed to run just fine with the Basemod.
If there weren't any conflicts it would mean no files are changed.
If no files are changed when you activate an optional mod - what's the point in running that optional mod?

But I see what you mean about that yellow text.
Like Arnold said - I'll be back.

:03:

[TheDarkWraith]

The biggest one to look at is the +-S. If you have a -S then the sizes are different, which means the files are probably completely different (has changes).

[quink99]

BUMP. See post #247 in this thread.