The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread [Archive]

Gilbou

01-26-10, 08:06 AM

I will not buy the game if this happens with SH5.

Recently I bought Rainbox Six Vegas 1 and 2 to play with friends,
and the security software fails on my new PC which has a brand
new combo drive (DVD reader+writer and Blueray). Ubisoft has not
been able to help (buy a new drive or a new PC even if I just spent
cash to buy a new one and it's under warranty unless I change a
piece of it so I'm not going to void my warranty...) and the company
that did the security check (Securom) never replied after three
help requests...

I won't make that mistake twice.

>> Last edited by Neal Stevens (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/posthistory.php?p=1246409); 01-26-2010 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Read forum rules about cracks
I understand the edit Neal. What I don't is you removed the most important
part of my post : DRM in various games has destroyed the gaming community
we had created with friends. We met, over the years, playing the same games.
We gathered, created our own website, keeping the patches there and game
info. We played, every day, together for years. And DRM broke all of that.
With each new game, each new DRM, some of our members, real friends,
could no longer play with us. They spent days, weeks trying to find a solution,
and they did not. The editors of the games offered no solution. The editors
of the security DRM code never bothered answering any request : NONE.
So others kept playing, and slowly, less and less players came to the games.
Today, the site is gone. The friends are gone. Left are our memories of
funny and great gaming moments spent together, in old games we no longer
play. It is a very bitter taste.

I do understand why you did edit the post, and I do agree with you.
But you did remove what was the most important and painful thing
about this whole DRM issue. You are pushing the finger in the wound
and turning it in doing so.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 08:12 AM

Reece

01-26-10, 08:37 AM

There are still a lot of people who don't have phone lines let alone an internet connection, and a lot with only 56k dialup modems, would cost a phone call every time they wanted to play, that sucks!!:down::down::down::down::down:

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 08:42 AM

Haha, not so many, I think. And how many of them play high end games?

Alienfresser

01-26-10, 08:56 AM

Hey even mass effect 2 will come without DRM, besides is the DISK in the tray.

TDK1044

01-26-10, 08:59 AM

I understand the point that Neal is making, and I think he's right, but I'm not happy with this kind of authentication. If DRM online is part of Silent Hunter V, then it will certainly give me pause for thought.

I'm glad I haven't pre ordered the game yet. By the same token though, Ubisoft has not yet stated that Silent Hunter 5 will require DRM online authentication.

If they do, then as the 'Sharks' say....."I'm out".

Sulikate

01-26-10, 09:40 AM

Crappy DRM would be the only reason for me not buying SH5. I don't care what the rationale behind this or that DRM is, it's crap. Eventually ALL games get cracked, no matter how "strong" their protection is, so a good old serial number is as good as any fancy protection, and it doesn't bother legit users.
Truth has been told here :|\\.

SteamWake

01-26-10, 09:54 AM

Which would you rather have that or a call to put the disk in every time you want to play?

Gilbou

01-26-10, 09:57 AM

Online authentication, okay.

And they day they stop the servers ? What will you do ?
Stare at the DVD cover ? Play with memories of the game ?

You're no longer buying a game you can play as much as you want.
You're renting a game. And when they pull the plug, it ends for you.

I will not accept online requirement to play a game. Not because of
the hassle, but because someday they can pull the plug and either
diseappear or don't care about you playing an old game.

Dowly

01-26-10, 10:00 AM

Oh yeh, the Ubisoft servers are known to be so easy to connect to (SH3/SH4 MP anyone? :haha:).

So, what we are looking at here is:

1. Launch game
2. Wait 15 minutes for the damn server to accept you
3. Choose new game/load game
4. Wait 15 minutes
5. Quit the game to tinker with your firewall to get the connection to work
6. Go to step 1.

:O:

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 10:03 AM

Dowly

01-26-10, 10:09 AM

Blame the pirates, they know who they are.

Same old song. :88)

razark

01-26-10, 10:10 AM

I recently upgraded a graphics card. Flight Simulator decided that this was reason enough to declare that I was no longer running an authorized copy of the game. So, I type in all the numbers of their code, and then wait for a bit, only to be told that the system cannot contact the server.

There was a phone activation backup, but what if that were to close down? Then, I'm left with only a demo mode game, that I paid for.

I understand the publishers feel the need to protect their profits, but should it come at the expense of their legitimate customers? Use some system that doesn't depend on a server or other entity that might not be there in two years.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 10:14 AM

I won't argue with that, it definitely is a concern.

Seeadler

01-26-10, 10:25 AM

longam

01-26-10, 10:26 AM

Link?

SteamWake

01-26-10, 10:28 AM

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 10:32 AM

I read that "Rise of Flight" is dropping the requirement to be connected to the internet the whole time you are playing in the next patch. Wouldnt this suggest that this approach is a fail?:hmmm:

Seeadler

01-26-10, 10:32 AM

Link?

post in the German Q&A thread
by Ubi_AnnikV one of the German Ubisoft community managers

http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431013487/m/1161085487/p/14

goldorak

01-26-10, 10:42 AM

What??!! :o

Somehow I think something was lost in the translation....

Why are you surprised ? Customers oops I meant consumers are the ENEMY.
EA doesn't give a damn about customers and they still sell a lot. Activision doesn't give a damn about customers and yet they still manage to sell a lot.
Why would Ubisoft have to be a nice publisher ? Just treat everyone like scum and wait for the money to start trickling in.

Really the only way not to get scammed by these publishers is to WAIT until they release a DRM free version of their games. If it means you'll be playing it 2-3 years down the road so be it. If they never release a DRM free version don't buy it. In any other case suck it up like a man and play the damn game. But don't come complaining afterwards about how draconian the DRM is.

TDK1044

01-26-10, 10:53 AM

If you've ever tried to connect to Ubisoft servers, then you'll know what bad news online DRM would be for Silent Hunter 5. Combined with this statement from a German Game Reviewer.....

'we still have to fight with crashes, control issues, graphic glitches and AI errors in this demo version'.

starts to give me a very bad feeling. I don't wish to be one of the ranters on the Forum at all, but for me, if this game is going to be as buggy as SHIV was at release, and on top of that I have to connect with Ubisoft servers in order to play it, then that would be the deal breaker for me.

goldorak

01-26-10, 10:53 AM

ETR3(SS)

01-26-10, 11:01 AM

ALL ABOARD!! Next stop monthly access fees starting at $14.99!:smug:

Some may laugh and think that's ludicrous, but Ubi has to maintain those servers somehow.

Kapitanleutnant

01-26-10, 11:03 AM

Silent Hunter 5 contains our new on-line services: You can install your play on as many as desired computers, your SaveGames become for on-line stored and you can her up from everywhere call and will play no more DVD/CD in the drive assembly needed. In order to ensure this, the play must be linked with Ubi.com and the PC must during the entire play time with the Internet be connected.

Okaaaaaay....

Gilbou

01-26-10, 11:04 AM

When they all become online auth, I guess you won't be playing games? :03:.

Yes. I will be playing my old games and I will vote with my wallet by not buying DRM-crippled games.

I have been buying games for years. Half of the time, I had to crack legit copies of the games I bought and be annoyed because most servers I wanted to play online required Punkbuster (which of course did not validate my genuine but cracked game).

And the crackers ? I checked on Bit torrent and Pirate bay. They are not only distributing copies of the game, but those copies have protection removed, so the pirates are happily playing the game without any hassle. They dont buy the games, they play them and they are not buying the game, getting home to find out that there's a problem between the game protection and my PC.

All I see is : they don't pay the games, I do.
They suffer NONE of the problems the copy protection has done to me.

So why do I bother ? Seriously ?

Since the last few years, I had to apply cracks to over half of the games I bought (and I bought them full price, not for 10 euro several years after they got published).

Vegas 1 : had to crack it.
Splinter cell : all except the very first one, I had to crack it to play
(and I am not telling about the 4 XP reinstalls I had to do because Starforce broke the system)
VC : got a new PC and had to crack it to install.. worked fine before.
The list goes on.

On my shelf where I store all the PC games I own, 2/3 require a crack to either install or play. And I bought all those games.

I have two CD-Rom readers on my PC : the previous one from my previous PC because the first Splinter Cell only validates using this one, I had to buy an external DVD reader/writer because I got 2 games that only validate protection with it... And the rest of the games don't validate with my previous CD-Rom reader, the current DVD one and the external DVD one.

The pirates are right now distributing every game I own with protection removed. They don't care, and they don't have the problems I had/have.
I have checked : for every game I have been in trouble with, I found cracked versions, downloaded them and discovered they had no protection at all. They just removed it.

So why do the editors keep crippling us ? The serial number to play online is a good idea. You can play your game on your PC at home, for years when it's not protected. When you want to play online, a check is made. That's how things should be. Because the pirates already distribute cracked games without protection, and because where the editors can nail them and hurt them is when they want to play online. This is where the editors should hit the crackers : when they try to play online.

I bought Vegas 2 : can't play it with friends. I had to sell it without ever playing it. Vegas 1 ? Only works if I crack it. Since most servers use Punk Buster I cannot join them. When I play with friends, we have to keep the server with a password to avoid cheaters that are interested by my Punkbuster-free server here at home....
Ubisoft support could not help me (I have 3 DVD-readers, am I supposed to keep buying them until I found one that works for each of my games ? And who will refund me for buying hardware that doesn't solve the problem ?)

Securom never bothered to answer me. I did use their tool, did three reports and asked for help. It's been six monthes over. Ubisoft doesn't care if Securom does no support, they each send the ball back at each other.

Meanwhile, crackers are distributing the games, full cracked and they even go play online... Great job.

I did play with three friends all the time in the last few years. We had created a kind of "clan" with our own online forum, we have over 10 members, and we all did buy each FPS-like game we liked. So each time there was a good game we bought it in group to play together online. We played all the Ghost Recon series games, all the Rainbow Six series games, and so on.

It all broke down. Because in the latest games we bought, about half of us had problems with copy protection : so people could not install the game. Or the game would install but then it would fail to connect to the online authentication server. And when it worked, you still had to cope with unfinished games, full of bugs and crashes. And each evening of play where about 1/3 to 1/2 the players were able to play... We had to restart the server between 3 and 5 times over 3/4 hours of play because it would either freeze or crash.

Today it's all gone. All players I played everyday with, good friends, are nowhere to be seen. I have only kept contact with two of them : one I tried to play online (Vegas1 and Vegas2 fiasco....) and failed. The other went back to play older games we played (Rainbox Six Ravenshield and VC) and all the others are only playing cracked games they download, because they were fed up of buying games full price, not be able to play.

Copy protection did break the community of friends I played with. This is reality.

You have no idea of what I could do to an Ubisoft representative talking to me about copy protection. I would probably break his both arms and legs just for fun. They ruined my gaming environment and ruined the small gaming community we slowly built over the last then years with friends. All gone because of copy protection and online authentication failing (about half players could not authenticate 50 % of each evening we tried to play at any Ubisoft Ghost Recon recent games online authentication....).

If SH5 does indeed require online authentication, I will buy SH3, install a mod and leave the SH5 and later versions series like I did give up on the Ghost Recon series and the Rainbow Six series and Splinter Cell too.

No surprise editors only try to sell to console players. It's not that PC people are no longer buying games, they're just disgusted to see crackers play at home and online without any hassle while we either can't install copy protected games, can install them but we're having trouble with online authentication, having to send to the editors PROOFS of purchase and wait between one or two weeks for an answer that half of the time, doesn't solve the problem, and most of the time they tell you to change your PC (albeit you bought it less than a month ago....) or to buy hardware (and when you do and it doesn't work they tell you to buy more DVD-readers until it works).

Some editors have realized this and their latest games have NO copy protection at all. Because if it had, a few weeks after the release the game will be downloadable with no protection at all online. And because people know they can buy the game without fear of having problems. This is where my money is going.

Just read about the Starforce fiasco. The Sony hidden-software scandal of the recent years. And keep in mind that you go to pirate bay and within a minute you can start downloading any protected game and not only play on PC but very often even play online. And then think about people like me that saw his community of friends broken and torn away because as each game went out, each evening less and less people could come play online, sometimes not even install the game.

I do not disklike copy protection. I utterly hate it to a level you are far from being able to imagine. And if I ever meet an official moron from a game company that patronizes me, I will torn him to pieces where he stands.

I will go back to the old games. And I will only buy unprotected ones.

I've had enough, Neal. Really.

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 11:05 AM

I never did mind the disk in the tray but like everything else I liked.......no more.

Arclight

01-26-10, 11:06 AM

Wait, this is a joke right? :huh:

'cause this would move my stance from "will buy no matter what" to "won't buy untill hell freezes over". :-?

Sulikate

01-26-10, 11:06 AM

Sad but true: it will take about -3 days before release date for someone to crack the online activation/save system. I'll still buy my copy and do as they say (even though I find it ridiculous), but I wonder why insist on bothering legit buyers when they know it won't keep piracy away for a single second.

SteamWake

01-26-10, 11:12 AM

If all this is true then this is absurd. I can see a one time verification, or even a 'quick check' when the game is started. But to have to be online the entire time? I think they probably loose close to 30% of the consumers right there. What if I want to play on my laptop while visiting my inlaws... no can do :nope:

Furthermore 'save games online' WTF :stare:

My stance has suddenly changed from "Oh boy cant wait" to "Oh crap what a shame".

Silent Hunter online :doh:

Way to loose a fanboy UBI bad decision bad indeed.

SteamWake

01-26-10, 11:13 AM

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 11:15 AM

Or like other titles the crack will be available before the game hits the shelf.

Warez versions too.

:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

johan_d

01-26-10, 11:15 AM

As far as I know, in the US it is practice to sell you a use licence, so you are in fact just renting itm or buy the right to use it, and get a disc as bonus.

I the Netherlands there was a judge who decided some years ago, that if you buy a CD its yours, and should be unrestricted. (like windows)
They legally cannot us the US way here, and I think it is in most EU countries this way.
You should get what you pay for and not a sneeky fee system or a hidden subscription, payed or not.

Then on the box should clearly state:
'you have the right to play it by online check as long as we see fit' Good luck.

JackAubrey

01-26-10, 11:20 AM

post in the German Q&A thread
by Ubi_AnnikV one of the German Ubisoft community managers

http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431013487/m/1161085487/p/14
He states: "und der PC muss während der gesamten Spielzeit mit dem Internet verbunden sein."

Which means, you'll have to be online during the whole playing session.
This is no mere online activation, which i could live with, besides, you also have to activate SH5 online AND you have to stay online while playing. The whole time. Sounds pretty much "Rise of Flight"-Style.

I am one of those gamers that are usually connected 24/7 to the net.
But my service provider sometimes shuts down the service for update or maintenance purposes or simply because something went "boom."
If this happens, that means I can kiss my game progress goodbye.

If SH5 would be an MMO then it would be pretty obvious that there is no other practical way around and I would be fine with the "online the whole time" thing. Same during Online-Multiplay. Just because it does not work any other way than with a connection to the net.

But we are talking about a mainly offline experience here. I am not playing against human opponents over the net, i am playing an offline game against the computers AI.
Having to be online the whole time, only to save my progress and losing it if the connection goes down, sounds simply ridiculous to me, and i have cancelled my preorder.

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 11:23 AM

I read that "Rise of Flight" is dropping the requirement to be connected to the internet the whole time you are playing in the next patch. Wouldnt this suggest that this approach is a fail?:hmmm:

With respect to Rise of Flight ^^^^^^

Gilbou

01-26-10, 11:23 AM

Well, well.

This settles it.

Today I was going to pre-order SH V.

Cancelled it and ordered a copy of SH 3.

I'm going back to SH3.

What I can accept when playing World of Warcraft (playing online and montly fee for weekly maintenance and 24/24 game masters for help) I cannot accept for a game I will play offline on my PC.

I will not support this.

Boats

01-26-10, 11:25 AM

I'll be out if this happens. RO sits in my drawer because I lost the account info and retrieving it is near impossible. (Impossible for me, but I'm told you can).

Why is it those who obey the laws are the ones who are consistantly the ones who have to pay for the actions of those who don't? The only direction that sort of Law enforcement leads to is the crooks finding another way to be crooks. Like the meth labs, to get Sudafed I have to hand over my license and fill out a form. Can't buy too many packages because they want the meth labs to shut down. The only thing they did was make people find a way to make their meth faster and with less sudafeds. So now more people have labs and more houses are blowing up. Sorry for the rant.

Sure I have a connection today, am I guarranteed one tomorrow?

johan_d

01-26-10, 11:29 AM

flakmonkey

01-26-10, 11:29 AM

I think mandatory online activation is the only thing that would stop me buying this, remember the fiasco that surrounded the realese of HL2 which to my knowledge was the first game that required manadatory online (steam) registration to play, in the end i took it back to the shop and got the console version!

What about folks like myself that have quite strict usage limits (5GB per month) This will suck, especially if the savegames are quite big as they are in sh3/4, its £100 per Gb excess over my limit, sh5 could cost me a fortune if i try to play when im near my usage limit!

(+careful talking about cracks/warez lest ye be keelhauled by Neal!)

Gatt

01-26-10, 11:30 AM

But we are talking about a mainly offline experience here. I am not playing against human opponent over the net, i am playing an offline game against the computers AI.
Having to be online the whole time, only to save my progress and losing it if the connection goes down, sounds simply ridiculous to me.

I totally agree.

Well, I canceled my preorder :-?

JackAubrey

01-26-10, 11:33 AM

Dont be affraid.. it will either be cracked shortly after release
Even if they manage to crack it and store the savegames locally:
There is no way that I pay for a game and have to use an illegal crack on it, just to be safe from disconnects while playing.

Ubisoft decided to hassle me, a paying, honest and loyal customer, with this sort of uncomfortable DRM-Crap so I am simply not giving them my money. And I also would not play any cracked version a) because i resent piracy and b) so Ubi cannot say "See, it's the pirates we have to take those measures!"

Gilbou

01-26-10, 11:35 AM

Dont be affraid.. it will either be cracked shortly after release or in a patch UBI will remove it, since they cannot hold this crap up.
Even microsoft removed the need for a disc in the drive with FS9 patch long time ago, and more did.

Sure. About 2/3 of my PC games are cracked because otherwise I could not play. But why should I pay full price for a game to crack it afterwards while I see crackers distribute an already cracked version on Internet ?

I think they won't listen unless we stop buying. I am not willing to play cracked games because that's how I've been raised, to be honest and not a thieve.

I just ordered myself a brand new SH3 for 13 euro, sending feeds included.
If SH5 goes out and they give us a patch to play offline and save our games locally, I'll reconsider.

johan_d

01-26-10, 11:35 AM

There are other ways, like what Behemia does, FADE..

ETR3(SS)

01-26-10, 11:38 AM

This just occurred to me and thought I'd share my thought...

Subsim: Last question: copy protection; what kind of copy protection scheme will SH5 use? Some kind of serial number, a program, or will the game be linked to Steam, or Uplay?

Alex: We cannot comment on that either right now.

JackAubrey

01-26-10, 11:40 AM

This just occurred to me and thought I'd share my thought...
Now we know why Alex could not comment this.

LtCmdrMaverick

01-26-10, 11:44 AM

I live in the Uk and where I live I don't even have GAS, so a stable internet connection is something that I dream of. In the last 4 weeks I have lost my internet connection on three occasions sometimes for 3 days. I then have to resort to a 'dongle' or through my mobile phone, neither of which are the best for a stable internet connection.

So now THEY are going to dictate to me that if I do not stay connected to the internet, then they WON'T let me play the game which I bought legitimately.

I have been asking them for 8 weeks now about whether the game would be connected to their Uplay system and they have refused to answer suggesting they were not prepared to discuss it 'yet'. No wonder, they had something worse up their sleeves.

A One sub, 1943 ending, internet required sim is fast becoming ....

'Shove it where the sun don't shine sim'.....(and that is the cleaned up version for the respect I have for this forum).

Maverick

Arclight

01-26-10, 11:48 AM

*sigh* Confirmed: Ubisoft's PC Games Will Soon Require An Internet Connection (http://kotaku.com/5457012/ubisofts-pc-games-will-soon-require-an-internet-connection)

I'm going off to cry in a corner now.

SteamWake

01-26-10, 11:53 AM

Now we know why Alex could not comment this.

Im pretty sure that the actual developers are aghast at this.

He was wise to not make any comment but now that the cat is out of the bag... :nope:

Two things...

I wouldent be tossing out statements like "2/3's of my games are cracked" or "you can crack it this way or that". If you want to conduct nefarious buisness keep it to yourself or suffer the consiquences.

Secondly I surely hope that this topic is in error and all this excitement is over nothing.

ParaB

01-26-10, 11:55 AM

That's it for me.

No Silent Hunter V.

A shame, since so far I've bought ALL games of the series.

I also have quite a bit of sympathy for the publishers in the days of high-speed internet, and I detest pirates who are not willing to spend money for the work of others. But THIS is going too far!

:stare:

My savegames are stored ONLINE only? And I have to be logged into some crappy UBI online server all the time? F*ck that! I don't want to install SH5 on 8 dozen computers! I want to install it on ONE PC, then play it whenever I want! And I want my save files on MY PC!

God, I haven't been angry about a PC game like that for a VERY long time. But if UBI thinks I'll eat that kind of crap and say thank you, they are VERY wrong.

Here's a lost sale from a VERY disappointed customer. And I will buy NO UBISoft game in the future with this kind of DRM.

:down:

Seeadler

01-26-10, 11:56 AM

Another question comes in my mind.

What about modding for game with a permanent online connection just for authentication and saving data on external server space? What is checked when you alter files through modding?

Gilbou

01-26-10, 12:00 PM

Im pretty sure that the actual developers are aghast at this.

He was wise to not make any comment but now that the cat is out of the bag... :nope:

Two things...

I wouldent be tossing out statements like "2/3's of my games are cracked" or "you can crack it this way or that". If you want to conduct nefarious buisness keep it to yourself or suffer the consiquences.

Secondly I surely hope that this topic is in error and all this excitement is over nothing.

I don't care. I own for each game an original copy.
And knowing the laws in France, they would have a lot of trouble explaning why a legally bought game cannot be played on legally sold hardware...
You see. The PC you buy is legally sold. The game is sold for PC. So if you cannot play a legally bought game on a legally bought PC on the market the seller is at fault. We have a lot of nice laws here in France to protect the consumer, to a degree far higher than in the US for example... We have people that sued and won against huge stores that have been forced not only to refund Windows because it's was considered a "joint sell" (which law forbids in France : you cannot legally tie a sale to another but have to separate each product and the consumer is free to only buy the PC without the operating system if he chooses to and the store is legally obligated to refund the Windows at its stand-alone price EVEN if the Windows pre-installed is valued 0 euro with the PC package. Neat huh ?)

I have bought legally games that do not play on legally acquired hardware. They are at fault and I am being very nice not suing their asses of about it. That's why they won't do anything because here in France, they know they will lose with very bad publicity.

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 12:00 PM

Kapitanleutnant

01-26-10, 12:01 PM

And I will buy NO EA game in the future with this kind of DRM.

Ubisoft!

TDK1044

01-26-10, 12:03 PM

We must keep in mind, Guys, that Ubisoft has only confirmed that online DRM is the way forward for them. It's possible that SHV will be one of the last games to be produced by that Publisher without online DRM.

I totally agree with the consensus here though. The thought of a buggy game at release, and us having to log onto Ubisoft servers to play it kills the deal for me.

ParaB

01-26-10, 12:04 PM

Ubisoft!

Ah, yeah! Sorry, mind slipped!

:D

BTW that new DRM has been confirmed by an UBI employee on the official german forum. Chances of SH5 actually NOT having that DRM are rather slim at this point.

Kapitanleutnant

01-26-10, 12:07 PM

Gatt

01-26-10, 12:08 PM

TDK1044

01-26-10, 12:08 PM

Well, I enjoyed SHIII and SHIV.....modded of course, but this statement ends my commitment to the franchise.

Silent Hunter 5 includes our new online services: You can install your game on as many computers, your savegames are stored online and you can retrieve it from anywhere and will play on any DVD / CD longer needed in the drive. To ensure this, the game must be linked with the Ubi.com, and the PC must be connected during the entire season with the Internet.

All good things must come to an end I guess...:)

SteamWake

01-26-10, 12:09 PM

I think the community manager on the German forum already confirmed SH5 will use this system.

Heh... and?

I confirm global warming is a hoax... :rotfl2:

We will just have to wait and see I guess. I can tell you this much ... no pre-order from me.

Wow this thread is moving fast... Never mind :D

JackAubrey

01-26-10, 12:10 PM

I think the community manager on the German forum already confirmed SH5 will use this system.
That's exactly what he did. He answered a SH5 specific question regarding copy protection.
But hey, he could have had false informations, who knows? :D

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 12:10 PM

Funny. They phrase it like they are doing us a favour!

ParaB

01-26-10, 12:13 PM

Also, UBISoft has announced exactly that kind of DRM for all its games in the future:

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-settlers-7-paths-to-a-kingdom/1063391p1.html

"One very interesting benefit of this new account management system is how it handles save games. Your saves will be stored remotely on Ubi servers, allowing access to your game saves on any machine."

Gilbou

01-26-10, 12:14 PM

Not really. We still dont know for SURE if this will be for SHV.

The german forum reply by the official Ubisoft representative makes it very clear that mandatory connection to Internet is required for the whole duration of Silent Hunter V play (and that games "can" be saved online so perhaps they can be saved online or offline).

But the official answer on the german forum of Ubisoft from the Ubisoft representative is connection is required not only to play the game (launch it) but is also required for the "whole duration" of play.

Kapitanleutnant

01-26-10, 12:14 PM

"One very interesting benefit of this new account management system is how it handles save games. Your saves will be stored remotely on Ubi servers, allowing access to your game saves on any machine."
Hmm yes that certainly is "interesting". :shifty:

01-26-10, 12:15 PM

I would say that it is very clear now, that SHV will have the new DRM(http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431013487/m/1161085487/p/14).
Has he got false informations? I wouldn't hope.
And I have got the feeling that the game structure of SHV is designed for the new DRM.

Well, goodbye SHV.
I know so many guys who haven't got DSL...:damn:

lorka42

01-26-10, 12:17 PM

razark

01-26-10, 12:24 PM

I'm seeing why they kept a tight lid on this game. Every time they open their mouths, they lose more customers.

I've found the direction they're going with SH5 to be quite interesting, but I wasn't that interested in playing it. With this model of DRM, I simply can't see buying it any time soon.

Weather-guesser

01-26-10, 12:26 PM

At least with STEAM you only have to be on-line to authenticate the game the first time you play. After that you could play in off-line mode. I wonder what this will be like? :shifty:

Gatt

01-26-10, 12:26 PM

I'm seeing why they kept a tight lid on this game. Every time they open their mouths, they lose more customers

Well, they kept their mouth shut for pre-orders.
I'd like to know how many pre-orders they will loose in the next month or so.
Mine for sure :hmmm:

Gilbou

01-26-10, 12:29 PM

I like to go to holidays in Portugal where we have a house there.
It's a calm place, on a top of a kind of moutain.
There, I don't have water coming in : we have a whell with a pump
that brings water to the house. No gas, we use wood we have
to go grab, cut and burn. And there's no telephone line there. It
was so expensive to bring telephone there that the national telephone
company brought ONE line to ONE house and the contract is everyone
there can use the line and pays for its own use. So if I need to call or
be called, I have to go to the neighboor's house which has the phone line,
and call/be called and pay for the use I do. Forget about cellphones
working there.

This is a quiet isolated place I like to go, and with a nice wood fire
turn on a confortable laptop to watch movies, play or reads books
and relax. And yes, I did play SH3 there.

So I am supposed to be connected to Internet all the time now ?
More and more often I no longer carry a cellphone because I'm fed
of people thinking I am supposed to be available for them when I lunch,
when I going to/from work and when I'm not working. I'm not keeping
the cellphone at home and less and less using it to have some moron
marketing suit tell me how I should live my life.

Offline play = no online Internet connection required

Man comes down from the monkey, and it seems some have missed
the ladder at Ubisoft.

Gatt

01-26-10, 12:30 PM

At least with STEAM you only have to be on-line to authenticate the game. After that you could play in off-line mode. I wonder what this will be like? :shifty:

Judging form the UBI official post it will be like Rise Of Flight: loose the connection and you can say goodbye to the game session.

However, due to players complaints, RoF will probably drop this system in one of the next patches.

Task Force

01-26-10, 12:35 PM

Well, there goes SH5... bummer...:shifty: NOW HURY UP OLEG!!! release storm of war, I want something else to play...:rotfl2:

Letum

01-26-10, 12:36 PM

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 12:43 PM

Well the poop is starting to hit the fan over at the UBI forums as well. I wonder if any phones are starting to ring in the upper echelons of UBI yet? :88):88):88)

ParaB

01-26-10, 12:44 PM

I have actually bought Rise of Flight to support a small developer/publisher, although with great reluctance. I won't put up with an IMO even worse DRM system from a major publisher.

Task Force

01-26-10, 12:44 PM

Lol, Im starting to think sh3s future just got abit more secure.:rotfl2:
I have actually bought Rise of Flight to support a small developer/publisher, although with great reluctance. I won't put up with an IMO even worse DRM system from a major publisher.
Yea, maby ROFs servers are working well. but what about ubi... and there servers... ya know, the day you try to log on and there servers are down.... or there servers crash, and what happens if your Internet goes out for a while... yer stuck with a game that dosent work... remamber, they plan on going all server online stuff... just think of how mutch server traffic they might get, and how slow it might go...

SteamWake

01-26-10, 12:45 PM

Yes UBI needs to step up and either confirm or deny.

This 'news' will trigger quite the firestorm.

Seeadler

01-26-10, 12:45 PM

Its confirmed in the UBI german forum by an UBI guy.

no it's a UBI girl :DL

left is Ubi_AnnikV and right Ubi_Marc, both community manager for SH5
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2662893612_9e9f8beed3.jpg

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 12:47 PM

Even tho I like the game very much, I refused to buy Rise of Flight for this reason.
Looks like I won't be buying SH5 either if this is the case. That's a shame.

I like to OWN the things I buy, not just own the right to connect to a
server to have assess to something I already paid for.

i have to agree here.

I'm still on the fence about this title... though im starting to lean more in a negative direction :shifty:

Webster

01-26-10, 12:51 PM

When they all become online auth, I guess you won't be playing games? :03:

yep thats exactly correct, there are plenty of older games that i can play, and when games stop selling they WILL get the message that only customers making mommy and daddy buy them will still buy their games.

i dont care if it stops Osama Bin Laden himself, i still will never "rent" a video game

i have no issue with a check in online authorization because that can be maintained with some little automatic check program after the game company no longer wants to support the game but this setup they are talking about is just stupid.

why waste my time at all, if thats what they want then forget the disk altogether and i'll log on with my credit card and buy one game play like the video arcade machines then play till i die and run my credit card through for another game.

thats 1000% pirate proof and i dont have to patch the game i DO NOT OWN

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 12:53 PM

Now it has been officially confirmed by an Ubisoft employee in the German SH5 forum, SH5 will contain exactly this new protection:

- you need an Ubisoft online account to activate SH5
- Save games be stored online on Ubisoft server
- PC must be throughout the playing session connected to the internet

if this is fact - forget it.

What happens when i have been stalking up on a convoy for 2 hours and my internet connection is lost for some reason???

My ISP decides its a good time for system maintenance? or some other issue happens and my connection is gone?

That will only happen ONCE my friend...

and SH5 will find its way into the GD microwave

thats insane.:nope::nope::nope:

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 01:11 PM

I take offense, sir are you implying that we, the wood-constructionally challenged, are somehow less because of our 2" walls, leaky roofs, and terminally leaning porcelain throne?
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Sorry, lol, I let my creative side get carried away :D As it happens, I live in a 14x70 when I got out of school.

TDK1044

01-26-10, 01:15 PM

This is a crucial stage for the future of this franchise. I think this will be the first time that a significant number of members here, and at other subsim forums, won't buy the game. We have heard over the years that people were not going to buy Silent Hunter for one reason or another, but those numbers were always insignificant in terms of total sales. That may not be the case this time...at least in terms of the subsim forums.

Ubisoft now needs it's precious casual gamers more than ever in my view, because I believe that this time there really will be a perceptible drop in sales from the subsim communites.

COWBOY10

01-26-10, 01:37 PM

I'm betting all PC games will go to online authentication eventually. True, there are a few people on the planet who play games in their doublewide without internet accesss, and there are occasions where internet access is not available to play, but the PC gamer is usually connected to the web 24/7.

Im Sorry Neal, I respect you mate and what you have done for our community, But I cant agree with this statement, There are more than a few who dont have internet access on our Gaming Rigs, I have internet on a Internet Rig, allows me to download patches, Surf, Email etc, Then I have a Gaming Rig alone.

This allows me to make sure its running at peak performance, without Virus's, Trojens, Spyware slowing it down etc. I have no problems with DRM, as a rule, BUT this course of going down the lone of permanant Connection at all times is a joke. A one off connection to validate connection, as I had to do with Blackshark and MSX then No Problem.

BUT I dont have a Gaming PC connected full time to the Internet for full time connection, Have the producers heard of a little Flight sim called Rise of Flight, Amazing idea, one the community was looking forward to a great deal, BUT They have lost many many sales by having such an awful way to play the game. E.G. Permanant connection, Server Crashes half way through mission and Bang you lose game.

They state one of the bonus's is that we can have multiple copys on different machines to play anywhere we want, our save games will be on the server etc, UMMM Guess they are thinking about laptops and gaming at work etc, Damn Im lucky to get a mobile signal where I live, let alone Wii Fii at a speed good enough to let this work.

Now I dont know about others, but another problem, is I play SH3 in Real Time, Now if I need a permainant connection, and Im playing Real Time, then Im guessing the connection will be open and info will be getting downloaded to pc right. Wont take long to hit the Download limit and then, Wham, You lose your whole internet not just SH5.

Sorry to Rant guys but Damn, This had so much to offer, and now looks like its sinking with all hands. I just wish the producers would start listening to us once, I am seriously thinking, that they are trying to kill the PC market, NOt just Ubisoft but you just have to look round at other producers and see the shafting PC Gaming is getting.

Seriously considering canning my Pre Order, It seems every peice of news we are hearing in the last few weeks, seems to fire another fish into us.

Cowboy10uk

:cry::nope:

himlaviz

01-26-10, 01:52 PM

This is the future...

I wouldn't mind this if they make it totally "drm" free after a year or two, then we don't have to worry whether Ubisoft will be around for years to come and as games grow old they might be tougher to get to run on new OS/hardware.

They are also working on a way to have you stream games, so you just need a client to be able to play the games streamed in real time to your client. Gone are the joy of building your own PC.

:down:

Though I use Steam I am torn about this, it has some advantages but it also makes you helpless if Ubisoft run's into problems... (same with Steam I guess). Personally I have a 100/10mbit connection 24/7 that has a 99.99% uptime and still feel like I should rather not buy Silent Hunter V. Sadly it's not because it might be a bad product but third party mess up... :(

Task force:
Doesn't 1C (Oleg) release their game through Ubisoft? If Storm of War is the next "IL2". :( This I am also looking forward too. :hmmm:

Gatt

01-26-10, 01:58 PM

no it's a UBI girl :DL

left is Ubi_AnnikV and right Ubi_Marc, both community manager for SH5
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2662893612_9e9f8beed3.jpg

Ah, I understand. And that must be their DRM development room. Advenced hi-tech stuff they use, indeed. :rotfl2:

COWBOY10

01-26-10, 01:59 PM

Task force:
Doesn't 1C (Oleg) release their game through Ubisoft? If Storm of War is the next "IL2". :( This I am also looking forward too. :hmmm:

I think so, yet another Sim, ive been looking forward to, Even i it disappered Years ago, Theres still a chance it will land, However If UBI do this with SH5, you can bet your Dollar they will do it to Storm of War.

Time to start looking for a new hobby guys,

Letum

01-26-10, 01:59 PM

same with Steam I guess

No, the vast majority of games on steam will run offline with no problem.

Doesn't 1C (Oleg) release their game through Ubisoft? If Storm of War is the next "IL2". :( This I am also looking forward too. :hmmm:Oleg and 1C took enough of Ubisoft's crap. Especialy their lack of support over some legal issues.
1C now develops and produces it's own games. No Ubi involved thank god.

danurve

01-26-10, 02:07 PM

****

Maybe we can get the GWX crew to reconsider 4.

Hitman

01-26-10, 02:08 PM

I'm speechless.

This is really, really sad news. I had not expected this, and now I'm very dissapointed. :wah:

I have bought 100+ legitimate games in my life, some of them only to support the maker because I liked to see them in the market. But I skipped one I had been waiting for very long, Rise of Flight, just because of this issue.

Internet activation of the game is bad enough, because you sometimes have to upgrade PC or reinstall a backup of Windows (I do it each three months to keep it clean, using an image of my HDD), and internet check for starting game session is even worse. But needing to stay connected ALL the time you are playing, is just pure madness.

No way am I going to tolerate this. I'm truly sorry, but UBI, I skip SH5 until I get the right to play my legitimally bought game wherever, whenever I want. I understand the reasons of the publishers and accept them, so I hope you also will understand and accept mines.

That was it. Now back to Sh3, and to the Pacific. :up:

Fire

01-26-10, 02:09 PM

DRM is great :yeah:

It helps me saving money :up:

Another 50 € saved

TDK1044

01-26-10, 02:09 PM

Topo65

01-26-10, 02:11 PM

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 02:18 PM

I have been buying games for years. Half of the time, I had to crack legit copies of the games I bought and be annoyed because most servers I wanted to play online required Punkbuster (which of course did not validate my genuine but cracked game).

Just a reminder, this is not the place to discuss cracks, ok?

Yes. I will be playing my old games and I will vote with my wallet by not buying DRM-crippled games.

I've had enough, Neal. Really.

Hey, I understand. We may not agree, but that's your call what to do with you money ;). I should have phrased my comment "When they all become online auth, I guess you won't be playing new games?"

Ubisoft decided to hassle me, a paying, honest and loyal customer, with this sort of uncomfortable DRM-Crap so I am simply not giving them my money. And I also would not play any cracked version a) because i resent piracy and b) so Ubi cannot say "See, it's the pirates we have to take those measures!"

That's a good place to stand on princicple. :yep:

I wouldent be tossing out statements like "2/3's of my games are cracked" or "you can crack it this way or that". If you want to conduct nefarious buisness keep it to yourself or suffer the consiquences.

Agreed.

Im Sorry Neal, I respect you mate and what you have done for our community, But I cant agree with this statement, There are more than a few who dont have internet access on our Gaming Rigs, I have internet on a Internet Rig, allows me to download patches, Surf, Email etc, Then I have a Gaming Rig alone.

This allows me to make sure its running at peak performance, without Virus's, Trojens, Spyware slowing it down etc. I have no problems with DRM, as a rule, BUT this course of going down the lone of permanant Connection at all times is a joke. A one off connection to validate connection, as I had to do with Blackshark and MSX then No Problem.

I thank you for your well constructed argument. Of course, I don't think I ever stated that I was in favor of this kind of DRM. I just said I can see this becoming the norm. :D I see a few people here decided to declare war on me, :O: I better make it clear, when asked, I have no problem with a copy protection scheme as long as it does not inhibit a legit customer.

I'm speechless.
Internet activation of the game is bad enough, because you sometimes have to upgrade PC or reinstall a backup of Windows (I do it each three months to keep it clean, using an image of my HDD), and internet check for starting game session is even worse. But needing to stay connected ALL the time you are playing, is just pure madness.

Well said.

tonschk

01-26-10, 02:21 PM

.

I have no problem with DRM , I have excellent internet connection :D , and I will buy SH5 :D

.

Q3ark

01-26-10, 02:27 PM

As long as they don't use starforce again i'll be a happy skipper:ping:

Lt commander lare

01-26-10, 02:27 PM

if this is true then im not interested at all i will stay in the pacific and remain there until the drm is removed my internet connection goes out all the time and to have to be connected to the internet to play is pure bs as far as im concerned i think ubisoft needs to reconsider its plans here or sh5 is sunk in the straits of gibraltar

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 02:30 PM

.

I have no problem with DRM , I have excellent internet connection :D , and I will buy SH5 :D

.

I have an excellent internet connection myself.

In the past year i have been without internet on perhaps 4 separate occasions.

on average, loss of connectivity lasts the better part of a day

one of those occasions, loss of connectivity lasted almost a week.

I would hate to gamble being able to play the game on whether or not my ISP was reliable, performing maintenance etc.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 02:39 PM

I have an excellent internet connection myself.

In the past year i have been without internet on perhaps 4 separate occasions.

I cannot think of any games I have they require a connection all the time to play, but to be honest, it would not affect my personal decision to buy the game. That's in part because I don't find it a problem to stay connected to the internet while playing *shrug*, and I don't have a principled stand against DRM. If they made a game that said you have to disconnect from the internet to play, I would have a problem :haha:

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 02:41 PM

I cannot think of any games I have they require a connection all the time to play, but to be honest, it would not affect my personal decision to buy the game. That's in part because I don't find it a problem to stay connected to the internet while playing *shrug*, and I don't have a principled stand against DRM. If they made a game that said you have to disconnect from the internet to play, I would have a problem :haha:

What about the issue of limited number of saves that was brought up in another thread?

What about ubi server issues?

i see it crashing in the first week or two of release personally.

mookiemookie

01-26-10, 02:42 PM

I cannot think of any games I have they require a connection all the time to play, but to be honest, it would not affect my personal decision to buy the game. That's in part because I don't find it a problem to stay connected to the internet while playing *shrug*, and I don't have a principled stand against DRM. If they made a game that said you have to disconnect from the internet to play, I would have a problem :haha:

I'm of the same mind. My net connection is always on, so that's not a problem. I am concerned a bit with my savegames being on the Ubi server, but so long as it works as advertised, I guess I'll be ok.

But if it becomes a problem, then all bets are off. But on the surface, and if all works as advertised, it should be ok for me.

longam

01-26-10, 02:42 PM

Simulators....don't leave! What am I going to do with my new rig? Surf the internet?

Getting hard to keep the faith with this game. :nope:

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 02:43 PM

This situation DEFINITLY needs a Hitler rant on youtube!!!

:yeah:

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 02:44 PM

I am concerned a bit with my savegames being on the Ubi server, but so long as it works as advertised, I guess I'll be ok.

thats more or less where im coming from?

WHY does ubi have a problem with save games being "local"?

Im confused

tonschk

01-26-10, 02:44 PM

.

QUOTE=Neal Stevens;1246932]

. If they made a game that said you have to disconnect from the internet to play, I would have a problem :haha:

[/QUOTE]

:yeah: :up: I Really Agree :up: :yeah: I Totally AgreE :yeah: :up:

.

CaptainNemo12

01-26-10, 02:44 PM

Congratulations Ubisoft... you just ruined SH5.

Arclight

01-26-10, 02:46 PM

:shifty:

Alright, I thought about it. I could post a rant that would make small children cry, but this is what it comes down to:

I am a gamer. As a gamer, I am presented with 3 options:

1. Give up on new games with these DRM measures. At this point in time, it seems likely that would include at least Assassin's Creed 2, SC Conviction and Silent Hunter 5.
2. Give in.
3. Piracy

Piracy is not an option. If anything, it would just make the measures more strict. I'm quietly hoping the system will be revised.

And I'm not going to give up on gaming either.

Leaves just 1 choice. Guess I'm luckily to have a stable connection 24/7.

I feel... depressed. Sick to my stomach. Like I sold my soul.

I better make it clear, when asked, I have no problem with a copy protection scheme as long as it does not inhibit a legit customer.
With all due respect Neal, we've reached that point. As soon as an internet connection becomes a requirement for play, not just activation, people with no or an unstable connection can not play it.

I hope you will consider your own words and give your stance a reevaluation. I'm not saying you should agree with me/us, all I ask is you give it a little more thought. I won't hold it against you or fight you on it if you stand by your statement.

SteamWake

01-26-10, 02:47 PM

What about the issue of limited number of saves that was brought up in another thread?

What about ubi server issues?

i see it crashing in the first week or two of release personally.

Heh I see it crashing on the day of release.. Kind of like what happend to Spore....

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 02:47 PM

Congratulations Ubisoft... you just ruined SH5.

I would have a hard time calling it ruined, especially since it hasnt even been played be the general public yet.

seriously flawed perhaps... but not ruined.

it is easy to get passionate about these things... I for one am dissapointed about the save game issue.

i dont care so much about the internet issue, BUT im going to be severely pissed off when i lose connection to the internet during a particularly heated battle.:cry:

flakmonkey

01-26-10, 02:53 PM

Well now its seeming certain this will part of sh5 i have to say a big thankyou to ubisoft, youve just lost a sale but saved me £40, its a shame, but at least ive now got an extra £40 to spend on cake:up:,

badkarma

01-26-10, 02:59 PM

I've had to make this decision a few times over games.
For 2 of them I gave in: when Railsimulator was released as Railworks on Steam, and with Batman: Arkham Asylum which requires a Windows Live Account.

Both of these were games I really wanted (and Steam also has an offline mode) so I went ahead and got them.
There are MANY other games I've passed on because of rediculously intrusive DRM that forces single player games to be "hooked up to the mother ship" all the time you want to play.
Having been reading the forums for the past few days after the Interview Email nudge I received, I was on the fence anyway.
I've not seen enough to make me want to leave SH3 and GWX for SHV as it is, and certainly not with DRM that stops me playing when I want to.

Sorry Ubi, I'm also out

Going to check the SH3 Mods forum and see if I can pep it up even further :up:

GoldenRivet

01-26-10, 02:59 PM

I'm still willing to give it a shot, but only after reading a LOT of reviews.

I was excited for many many many weeks about the release of SH3, because the ubi team was so forthcoming with TONS of videos, tutorials, screen shots, information, interviews with Oesten ALL PUBLISHED ON THE OFFICIAL SITE several weeks in advance of release.

but still... NOTHING at the official site for SHV

:shifty:

COWBOY10

01-26-10, 03:00 PM

I thank you for your well constructed argument. Of course, I don't think I ever stated that I was in favor of this kind of DRM. I just said I can see this becoming the norm. :D I see a few people here decided to declare war on me, :O: I better make it clear, when asked, I have no problem with a copy protection scheme as long as it does not inhibit a legit customer.

Hey Neal Mate, Just to answer that, I certanly am NOT declaring War on You, As I said at the start of my Post, I respect you and all you have done for our Community, I also didn't state you said you were in favour of this DRM, Just challenging the thought that most PC Gamers are connected 24/7. I agree most of us are Connected in some way 24/7 but it just might not be on our Gaming Rigs.

Sorry If I offended you mate, Certainly Not my intention. I Just wish The producers would listen to us for a change, I know theres always a complaint no matter which DRM they chose, but come on, Anythings got to be better than this.

Cowboy10uk

Iron Budokan

01-26-10, 03:02 PM

Wow...just wow.

Man. It's like they don't want us to buy the game.

I have excellent Internet connection. I play World of Warcraft so I have to have excellent Internet connection.

But that's WoW. Will I do this for SH5? Nope. Because WoW isn't the same game as SH5 and vice versa. Like someone said, I set up a convoy shot for two hours, lose my connection and lose the game? Forget that. In WoW if I lose my connect I don't really lose anything at all. I just get back on. My toon is still there with all her equipment and buffs and I get right back in it.

Oh, well. I was leaning against buying SH5 because of the other already well-documented atrocities....this is just one more weight on that side of the scale.

Iron Budokan

01-26-10, 03:04 PM

[QUOTE=GoldenRivet;1246967
I was excited for many many many weeks about the release of SH3, because the ubi team was so forthcoming with TONS of videos, tutorials, screen shots, information, interviews with Oesten ALL PUBLISHED ON THE OFFICIAL SITE several weeks in advance of release.

but still... NOTHING at the official site for SHV

:shifty:[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of warning flags in the wind for this game. A LOT. :down:

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 03:06 PM

Congratulations Ubisoft... you just ruined SH5.

Hey hey hey that is not fair. There was plenty of evidence to suggest that SH5 was ruined before this came about!:rotfl2:

roman2440

01-26-10, 03:11 PM

Its funny seeing everyone claiming this is the end of SH5 based on principles. You know this is deja vu, I saw the same vitrol coming from PC users about Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and their treatment of the PC community. You know what happened there? IW said wa-wa-wa, took their money, and laughed all the way to the bank. #1 selling game of all time, thats what happened.

It doesn't matter how many of you cancel based on this, its going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the sales they'll get regardless of DRM. Yes it does affect a community like this one, and yes that has an effect on further iterations of the game (like a potential SH6), but it has almost zero bearing on SH5 and its profitability.

BTW, this came down as an all or nothing type of approach, all Ubisoft games will require this - its not specific to SH5 at all. So even a local boycott of one game wouldn't have any effect other than to push Ubisoft away from spending money developing sub sims. Is that what you really want?

Look, is this the best of news for SH5? Hecks no. Is it good news for SH5, nope. Is it a death nail in its coffin, I certainly hope not. Yes it sucks for those that don't have a reliable internet connection, but really this is the 21st century, gaming and reliable internet are becoming more and more intwined. And as for one offs (like what happens if my ISP does maintenance in the middle of my game?) they are what they are - is it really a killer to lose out one gaming session? Is that one lost gaming session worth sacrificing all the other gaming goodness and the other umpteen good gaming sessions?

For me this is all about hours of entertainment for the money paid. For a 50$ game, I'd expect to get at least 10 hours of enjoyable gameplay out of it (to get it above parity with a movie). Do these restrictions affect that? not really, not at all.

Sgtmonkeynads

01-26-10, 03:12 PM

Hey hey hey that is not fair. There was plenty of evidence to suggest that SH5 was ruined before this came about!:rotfl2:

Andrew Dice Clay would say "OOOOHHHHH!" after that one:har:

COWBOY10

01-26-10, 03:19 PM

]Its funny seeing everyone claiming this is the end of SH5 based on principles. You know this is deja vu, I saw the same vitrol coming from PC users about Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and their treatment of the PC community. You know what happened there? IW said wa-wa-wa, took their money, and laughed all the way to the bank. #1 selling game of all time, thats what happened.

Ummmm, I think You will find, that only 10% of those sales were from the PC, The rest Console. All it really showed is teh PC Community getting Shafted Yet again.

sk065

01-26-10, 03:23 PM

Rockin Robbins

01-26-10, 03:26 PM

Well, online authentication and some indispensible online content necessary to play the game are the trend of the future. It is good. It is the end of piracy. In fact, the pirates would be Ubi's good friend, distributing the drink coasters so people could access the Ubi site and be sold the rights to play game!:D

I think there is a problem with that model in that only Ubi would gain any income from the sale of games. Selling your used copy would be impossible. That's a legitimate place for government to get involved, requiring game companies to prominently label store copies of Steam and similar games that they cannot be resold. Alternatively, they could require that all drink coasters be resellable. Registration numbers of games that must be played online or while connected online are stupid anyway. Why not reduce your cost of distribution and let people make all the copies they want. The disk would just be a gateway to the game.

Online authentication and game content truly hurts the pirates. Online authentication and game content truly helps the players. It is the very first anti-piracy scheme that can be said to do that.

Don't have a reliable online connection? Get one. You'll be sunk without one. You need it anyway. Grow up and join the 21st century. It's already ten years old.

Quote from me: "Mice don't belong on computers, they belong in medical laboratories." You think I might use a mouse today? You betcha. And you'll happily play online authentication and game content games in five years, wondering why it took so long to see the obvious! I'll see you guys then for all the apologies.

I use JSGME with wild abandon with the Steam version of L4D and there are no problems whatever. All this catastrophising is ridiculous.

kapitan_zur_see

01-26-10, 03:28 PM

And what about modding potential? Surely this will be affected when servers realise it is not vanilla and reject your copy of the games thinking its cracked or something. Its going to cause problems.

I have decided not to buy this game...Thank god for SH3 GWX (GWX team please reconsider GWX 4 for SH4)

Biggest concern here also... Though devs said it was even more modders friendly as before, so it's likely it won't be a problem I guess. Though I hope it won't limit modding of certain aspects of the game

sk065

01-26-10, 03:30 PM

Don't have a reliable online connection? Get one. You'll be sunk without one. You need it anyway. Grow up and join the 21st century. It's already ten years old.

Please get educated. Some people dont have access to the internet due to government restraints, rural locations ect etc

meanstreak

01-26-10, 03:31 PM

Well hi there guys... Thought time is now right for me to drop a line.
I originally joined these forums back when SHIII was released, only posted a few times and over the last few years have only dropped in for short visits on the odd occasion, so few in fact that when it became necessary to log in to view the SHV side of things I could not remember my log-in details so had to register again :salute:.

I have been reading all the recent ranting, negative threads with amusement but all along I wasn't put off by any of it and fully intended to buy on release, I was just thinking great, a new Sub-sim, can't wait, surely it will improve on the series regardless of what all the nay-sayers think.
However now that I hear about this and provided it is good information I definitely will not be purchasing, £40 or so is a lot of money to me and because I find myself with only paltry mobile internet at the moment and whatever problems this may bring then the money is better spent I think.

So looks like I'll be digging out good old SHIII, reinstalling on my gaming rig and finally trying out all those wonderful mods that I never tried before. The only downside is the time it will take to download with my sloooowww connection, still every cloud has a silver lining.

Chin up folks.

Iron Budokan

01-26-10, 03:31 PM

Hey hey hey that is not fair. There was plenty of evidence to suggest that SH5 was ruined before this came about!:rotfl2:

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Arclight

01-26-10, 03:34 PM

Rockin Robbins

01-26-10, 03:45 PM

Hanomag

01-26-10, 03:52 PM

XBOX 360 .. 4TW!!! :arrgh!:

I think pirates will hack it regardless.. online security sounds like gun laws to me.. only bothers the law abiders.. not the bad guys. So I am off to play COD MW2..:up:

Rockin Robbins

01-26-10, 03:56 PM

Please get educated. Some people dont have access to the internet due to government restraints, rural locations ect etc
And those people will not be playing the next generation of games, just as people without computers are not playing SH3 or SH4. Then those people will either get access or not play. Virtually all will get access.

We are entering a new age, where all game content will be online and subscription fees will be how you pay. The games won't even be distributed on DVD drink coasters, they are too darned expensive to distribute and freeze the state of the game to yesterday's technology. Games that are online only can be updated daily and evolve properly into the simulations we deserve. Subscription fees provide a constant income stream to continue to employ the same dev team so they can work for years improving the game we love.

SH5 is just on baby step in the right direction. That's what's happening. Your only choice is to get with the program. Well, you could learn chess.

Apos

01-26-10, 04:02 PM

I cant see serious reason why they want to use DRM. It will be hacked/pirated in 1st day or week anyway and only legal users will be in deep ****.

roman2440

01-26-10, 04:02 PM

About modding; I think it just makes a version check or calculates a hash for the executable; no mod changes it, so no problems. Besides, Dan already confirmed the moddability is there.

To RR and others about unstable connection: just about everyone I know with wireless has an unstable connection. I see several messages from Skype per day that my brother came online, even though I know he never went offline. I pray to god Ubi sets a reasonable time-out, or anyone with a wireless connection will be playing in constant fear of loosing progress.

About loosing progress and wireless connections: If the game loses connectivity in the middle of a game in progress it will Pause the game and retry the connection. Based on my experience with wireless this should basically make it a non-issue (one very short pause every game session or two isn't going to kill the game experience). If on the chance that it is unable to re-establish connectivity it'll give you the option of continueing from that spot or loading a save game. The FAQ doesn't specify if that is right away or if that is upon connection re-establishment:

See: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62098
Pay attention to the updated FAQ section.

sk065

01-26-10, 04:08 PM

And those people will not be playing the next generation of games, just as people without computers are not playing SH3 or SH4. Then those people will either get access or not play. Virtually all will get access.

SH5 is just on baby step in the right direction. That's what's happening. Your only choice is to get with the program. Well, you could learn chess.

I have the OPTION of buying a PC to play SH3 and SH4. Some people (myself included) have limited connectivity to the internet, epecially at peak times. This is due to my geographical location and ISP constraints. Now my options are limited through no fault of my own. I think you will find many in this situation. I see what you are saying. Perhaps Florida is ready for this. But where I live, this is far from ideal. So how do you propose i get with the program?

Webster

01-26-10, 04:18 PM

SH5 is just on baby step in the right direction. That's what's happening. Your only choice is to get with the program. Well, you could learn chess.

i completely dissagree with you on that.

oh, and by the way i'll be playing sh3 and sh4 for the next 15 years and wont miss out on anything as far as i am concerned.

for years i have laughed at any game when i see i have to be connected to the internet to play it and see it as no different then those console only games.

if a game company makes a game i cant play on my PC (IMO online only means i cant play it) then i go buy some other game to play, be it new or old.

game companies can try to force their will on everyone against their wishes and for a while they get away with it but sooner or later enough people say no and stop buying it (literally) and give their money to games that are customer friendly.

sooner or later customers voices and opinions will matter again.

you cant sell a product if your customers wont buy it.

Arclight

01-26-10, 04:18 PM

Thanks, roman2440. :salute:

With that updated info it seems a bit more reasonable as well. Still would be pain if your game keeps pausing every 50 min. though. :lol:

Lt commander lare

01-26-10, 04:20 PM

you cant get with the program because we just got handed the go to jail card do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars and no atlantic patrols for you by ubisoft so i guess patrol the pacific all you want because at this point thats all there is

lt commander lare

Randomizer

01-26-10, 04:22 PM

SH5 is just on baby step in the right direction. That's what's happening. Your only choice is to get with the program. Well, you could learn chess.

I like chess.

What I do not like is effectively renting a game that requires a third-parties blessing to play on every ocassion. It's like needing the publishers' permission to read a book that I have paid for.

mookiemookie

01-26-10, 04:29 PM

Just thought of something - what happens 2 or 3 years down the line when there's a Silent Hunter 6....and they shut down the Silent Hunter 5 server in order to force you to upgrade?

Thomen

01-26-10, 04:32 PM

sk065

01-26-10, 04:33 PM

Just thought of something - what happens 2 or 3 years down the line when there's a Silent Hunter 6....and they shut down the Silent Hunter 5 server in order to force you to upgrade?

Easy - there wont be a SH6 at this rate.

IanC

01-26-10, 04:37 PM

Ughh...forced to connect to the web to play a game, that I bought, in my own home? I think not. :down:
And I'm not just saying that because I don't have high speed. I guarantee you that even with the best high speed, I would still be against it. It just feels...wrong. It goes against 25 years of my PC gaming experience.
If I want to play a game, it should be myself and the game. Not me, the game, and a server somewhere across the world.

sk065

01-26-10, 04:41 PM

About loosing progress and wireless connections: If the game loses connectivity in the middle of a game in progress it will Pause the game and retry the connection. Based on my experience with wireless this should basically make it a non-issue (one very short pause every game session or two isn't going to kill the game experience). If on the chance that it is unable to re-establish connectivity it'll give you the option of continueing from that spot or loading a save game. The FAQ doesn't specify if that is right away or if that is upon connection re-establishment:

See: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62098
Pay attention to the updated FAQ section.

Sorry but why should i pay for a game that pauses (even if it is just one or two time a session) when i could have the choice of uniterupted gameplay. This would effect immersion and would kill my experience. Its comparable to a major bug in my book. If they are going to implement it, make sure it does not detract from gameplay.

codmander

01-26-10, 04:44 PM

grrrr this stinks:down::down::down::down::down::down::down::d own::down::down::down::down::down::down::down::dow n::down::down::down::down:

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 04:44 PM

You are into a career with 100hrs. invested and the server becomes infected and you are %H&K((............

verte

01-26-10, 04:49 PM

Don't bother with SH5. SH3 forever!

Arrakis

01-26-10, 04:59 PM

Has the news been confirmed by anyone from the dev team?? Dan??

I wish such a system was not implemented as I wanna be free to play whenever I like....and not necessarly while being online (well I play on a laptop)...

Thanks for the reply!

longam

01-26-10, 04:59 PM

I can only imagine the people on satellite, man that would s**k. They loose connection or slow down to a craw during peak times because of the overloaded satellites.

This would include a large population of internet users. You only have to be a few miles out of town to not have broadband, I know I was there.

Rockin Robbins

01-26-10, 05:06 PM

Just thought of something - what happens 2 or 3 years down the line when there's a Silent Hunter 6....and they shut down the Silent Hunter 5 server in order to force you to upgrade?
That's an interesting question. Actually there will be no Silent Hunter 6 when the transition is complete. There will only be Silent Hunter, a continually evolving and improving game. It will automatically update itself every time you start the game.

You can see the future in operation any time you want by playing Runescape at runescape.com. There's a game that is completely different from when RS2 was introduced five years ago. There is no version number. Once a week they push out an update and when you start the game it loads all updates without any interaction from you at all. Runescape could never exist in a drink coaster world, even as a single player game. It is a perfect example of the advantages of evolution over game versions.

Game versions are necessary because of the frozen state of a DVD or CD, not because of any other reason. Liberating the game from the drink coaster is the key to a quantum leap in quality, more income for the game company, developers who can work for years and years on a single game. We're about at the peak of quality a drink coaster game can deliver. Yes, they can jazz up the graphics, hurriedly add a feature or two, but they will introduce dozens and dozens of consequential bugs in the process.

Once the drink coasters are sold, income from the game ceases, just as patch maintenance costs ramp up. With no income to pay for it, the game company will always tend to give us just enough of a patch that we won't completely revolt. We're left with "rudder....rudder" for rudder amidships.

None of this has to be. Future games will be infinitely better than what we have now because the business model of gaming will change to give us what we require. Some of us will foolishly catastrophise. Some of us still drive horse-drawn buggies as well. Please scrape up the horse poop from the road.

As far as fast and reliable internet connections, ten years ago, most of us didn't have one. The customer always gets what he wants. Those of us who have good high speed connections have it because customers demanded it, not because phone companies and cable companies wanted to provide it.

Just like your cheap and fast as blue blazes computer, this capability will be financed by people with a lot more money than sense, who will pay ten times the cost you're willing to pay to get the system up and running. Think the first iPhones. Thank God for rich people. They make possible all the toys we enjoy for cheap. We need more rich people.

The Internet of the future will make ALL our connections seem slow and unreliable. It will come because applications demand it. SH5 and future games that will be Internet based will be important parts of making the Internet of the future possible. You don't see it now, but it's going to be freakin' GREAT! Those who complain the loudest now will be its strongest supporters.

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 05:15 PM

Excellent post "RR"........I just want to know when the time will come when there are no more keyboards and mice. You put on a helmet, cursor follows eye movement, and typing is done by thinking the letters.

[QUO
TE=Rockin Robbins;1247224]That's an interesting question. Actually there will be no Silent Hunter 6 when the transition is complete. There will only be Silent Hunter, a continually evolving and improving game. It will automatically update itself every time you start the game.

You can see the future in operation any time you want by playing Runescape at runescape.com. There's a game that is completely different from when RS2 was introduced five years ago. There is no version number. Once a week they push out an update and when you start the game it loads all updates without any interaction from you at all. Runescape could never exist in a drink coaster world, even as a single player game. It is a perfect example of the advantages of evolution over game versions.

Game versions are necessary because of the frozen state of a DVD or CD, not because of any other reason. Liberating the game from the drink coaster is the key to a quantum leap in quality, more income for the game company, developers who can work for years and years on a single game. We're about at the peak of quality a drink coaster game can deliver. Yes, they can jazz up the graphics, hurriedly add a feature or two, but they will introduce dozens and dozens of consequential bugs in the process.

Once the drink coasters are sold, income from the game ceases, just as patch maintenance costs ramp up. With no income to pay for it, the game company will always tend to give us just enough of a patch that we won't completely revolt. We're left with "rudder....rudder" for rudder amidships.

None of this has to be. Future games will be infinitely better than what we have now because the business model of gaming will change to give us what we require. Some of us will foolishly catastrophise. Some of us still drive horse-drawn buggies as well. Please scrape up the horse poop from the road.

As far as fast and reliable internet connections, ten years ago, most of us didn't have one. The customer always gets what he wants. Those of us who have good high speed connections have it because customers demanded it, not because phone companies and cable companies wanted to provide it.

Just like your cheap and fast as blue blazes computer, this capability will be financed by people with a lot more money than sense, who will pay ten times the cost you're willing to pay to get the system up and running. Think the first iPhones. Thank God for rich people. They make possible all the toys we enjoy for cheap. We need more rich people.

The Internet of the future will make ALL our connections seem slow and unreliable. It will come because applications demand it. SH5 and future games that will be Internet based will be important parts of making the Internet of the future possible. You don't see it now, but it's going to be freakin' GREAT! Those who complain the loudest now will be its strongest supporters.[/QUOTE]

HundertzehnGustav

01-26-10, 05:17 PM

roman2440

01-26-10, 05:18 PM

Sorry but why should i pay for a game that pauses (even if it is just one or two time a session) when i could have the choice of uniterupted gameplay. This would effect immersion and would kill my experience. Its comparable to a major bug in my book. If they are going to implement it, make sure it does not detract from gameplay.

A connection that cannot reliably handle an occasional keep alive packet is really a thing of the past for 98+% of the gamer population today. A wireless connection can handle it just fine - if there is a hickup its going to be a very minor thing. Yes there are some people where this will break their immersion because they've got a poor ISP, but that number is dwindling smaller and smaller by the day.

Why should a developer restrict its design to account for the 1-2% that don't have a reliable connection? You have a choice, you can choose not to buy the product - if your setup can't handle it then likely this is not the product for you. But I'd be willing to bet that only 1-2% of the prospective customers would have a connection that would regularly have a problem.

Look, if you've got a problem with it, fine, don't buy the game(s). However realize that the days of gaming without an internet connection is numbered and that a boycott on principle is meaningless (you'll never get anywhere close to a serious dent in sales).

Highbury

01-26-10, 05:19 PM

I have a solid net connection, I have never had trouble with online DRMs.. I have been using them for years.

The biggest games in the world require online play.. no amount of forum whining will change the view a production company sees. MMOs have MILLIONS of subscriptions and every one playing on a real copy. No corporate bean counter will ever see past that!

The biggest thing I hear about online DRMs is.. "but if my net goes down I can't play the game I own!!". Yeah.... well to set this straight, you don't own software. In the legal sense you are a "Licensed User" not an "Owner".. HUGE difference. When you click Yes and Next without reading during an install, you are passing the EULA which is a legal contract. When you say "Yes" to that page you are signing a contract. If you chose to sign contracts without reading them, then you have no right to bitch.

Webster

01-26-10, 05:21 PM

Hanomag

01-26-10, 05:21 PM

UGH..! RR.

Could you put that in idiot terms for the mentally less fortunate like myself? :oops:

Is that yea or nay for DRM?? :doh:

jclasper

01-26-10, 05:26 PM

I have very stable 24/7 connection but have no desire for online connection to play or store any part of my games
Once i purcase a game then i should not be told if or when i can play it
Guess for the time being im sticking with 3 and 4 and pre order now cancelled

Thomen

01-26-10, 05:27 PM

I have a solid net connection, I have never had trouble with online DRMs.. I have been using them for years.

The biggest games in the world require online play.. no amount of forum whining will change the view a production company sees. MMOs have MILLIONS of subscriptions and every one playing on a real copy. No corporate bean counter will ever see past that!

But we are not playing an MMO here. There is a slight difference between a single player game which basically require not outside input, and a game that massively relies on server data that tells your client where everybody is and what they do.

And yes, I do have a constant internet connection, but I do object to a connection over that I have no control and do not know what is send.

Furthermore, server side stored save games is total BS. I wont agree to that either until I see what exactly is stored.

longam

01-26-10, 05:35 PM

relies on server data that tells your client where everybody is and what they do.

If they was going to utilize something like that in SH5 I might consider it worth the time. :hmmm:

HundertzehnGustav

01-26-10, 05:35 PM

I am a SIMmer at heart. looks like i might hve to give up on simming and get a new Hobby.
I have startet getting into the PC business because i want to keep playing, but the pay is miserable, and a proper internet connection costs me 10-12 percent of my pay . I do not see that haoppening.

SHIII and a second or third GF is the Future, Sex is more fun than SHV, and condoms are cheaper anyway. Depending n how much i need.
Bye gaming... Welcome, Ladies!

ETR3(SS)

01-26-10, 05:36 PM

That's an interesting question. Actually there will be no Silent Hunter 6 when the transition is complete. There will only be Silent Hunter, a continually evolving and improving game. It will automatically update itself every time you start the game.

You can see the future in operation any time you want by playing Runescape at runescape.com. There's a game that is completely different from when RS2 was introduced five years ago. There is no version number. Once a week they push out an update and when you start the game it loads all updates without any interaction from you at all. Runescape could never exist in a drink coaster world, even as a single player game. It is a perfect example of the advantages of evolution over game versions.

Game versions are necessary because of the frozen state of a DVD or CD, not because of any other reason. Liberating the game from the drink coaster is the key to a quantum leap in quality, more income for the game company, developers who can work for years and years on a single game. We're about at the peak of quality a drink coaster game can deliver. Yes, they can jazz up the graphics, hurriedly add a feature or two, but they will introduce dozens and dozens of consequential bugs in the process.

Once the drink coasters are sold, income from the game ceases, just as patch maintenance costs ramp up. With no income to pay for it, the game company will always tend to give us just enough of a patch that we won't completely revolt. We're left with "rudder....rudder" for rudder amidships.

None of this has to be. Future games will be infinitely better than what we have now because the business model of gaming will change to give us what we require. Some of us will foolishly catastrophise. Some of us still drive horse-drawn buggies as well. Please scrape up the horse poop from the road.

As far as fast and reliable internet connections, ten years ago, most of us didn't have one. The customer always gets what he wants. Those of us who have good high speed connections have it because customers demanded it, not because phone companies and cable companies wanted to provide it.

Just like your cheap and fast as blue blazes computer, this capability will be financed by people with a lot more money than sense, who will pay ten times the cost you're willing to pay to get the system up and running. Think the first iPhones. Thank God for rich people. They make possible all the toys we enjoy for cheap. We need more rich people.

The Internet of the future will make ALL our connections seem slow and unreliable. It will come because applications demand it. SH5 and future games that will be Internet based will be important parts of making the Internet of the future possible. You don't see it now, but it's going to be freakin' GREAT! Those who complain the loudest now will be its strongest supporters.RR I have the perfect game for you then.:rotfl2:

http://www.ogamestore.com/images/tp/wow.jpg

Rockin Robbins

01-26-10, 05:37 PM

Is this some talk from authority from someone working in the gaming industry or is this just some baseless fantasy?

Watch and learn!:D

onelifecrisis

01-26-10, 05:41 PM

Someone please save me the hassle of reading the whole forum and tell me if this has been officially confirmed for SH5 or not?

HundertzehnGustav

01-26-10, 05:43 PM

Yep, OLC...Yep.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 05:59 PM

I'm of the same mind. My net connection is always on, so that's not a problem. I am concerned a bit with my savegames being on the Ubi server, but so long as it works as advertised, I guess I'll be ok.

But if it becomes a problem, then all bets are off. But on the surface, and if all works as advertised, it should be ok for me.

Yes, how it functions remains to be seen. I think those are legitimate concerns. The only games I currently play that require online connection are Steam games, afaik. I have never had a problem playing those. Ideally, an online copy protection scheme would have some provision for offline play, maybe a timer or x number of offline sessions... and of course, I want some assurance that the game will become independant of the publisher at some point in the future.

Letum

01-26-10, 06:04 PM

The only games I currently play that require online connection are Steam games, afaik. I

Almost all (Les than four exceptions) steam games can be played in offline mode.

Safe-Keeper

01-26-10, 06:07 PM

I hate the online part of BF2142. I'll fire up a map for testing and run about offline, on my own computer, all by myself, and all of a sudden I'm booted to the main menu with the explanation that "connection to the EA master server has been lost".

:damn:

But I'll reserve judgment until I get to actually try it out, and if it can reduce piracy, so much the better :) .

floundericiousWA

01-26-10, 06:08 PM

Yes, how it functions remains to be seen.

The single most factually correct thing stated at this time.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 06:08 PM

Almost all (Les than four exceptions) steam games can be played in offline mode.
Ok, thanks.

And those people will not be playing the next generation of games, just as people without computers are not playing SH3 or SH4. Then those people will either get access or not play. Virtually all will get access.

We are entering a new age, where all game content will be online and subscription fees will be how you pay. The games won't even be distributed on DVD drink coasters, they are too darned expensive to distribute and freeze the state of the game to yesterday's technology. Games that are online only can be updated daily and evolve properly into the simulations we deserve. Subscription fees provide a constant income stream to continue to employ the same dev team so they can work for years improving the game we love.

SH5 is just on baby step in the right direction. That's what's happening. Your only choice is to get with the program. Well, you could learn chess.

Yeah, that's sort of the point I was trying to make. Like it or not, I think that is the direction things are headed. It is likely that as time goes by, games will become interconnected with online authentication. Because whether you believe piracy affects sales or not, fact is, games are pirated and played by millions, and game publishers believe it.

The biggest games in the world require online play.. no amount of forum whining will change the view a production company sees. MMOs have MILLIONS of subscriptions and every one playing on a real copy. No corporate bean counter will ever see past that!

Yep, that's the reality. No way Ubisoft, EA or any publisher wants people playing their games without paying. It irritates me, knowing many people are playing a game for free that I pay for. If people like you and me do not buy the game, they sure as hell won't make them.

Sure, it stinks if you happen to be the few people who have no internet connection. But even rural people have internet-- (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160413)they have phones, don't they? I do not have any stats handy, but I'm going to say I think most people who own a PC and play new games, have great internet.

Von Taticus

01-26-10, 06:08 PM

Just read this on the official forum

UK Community Coordinator

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/ver1.3.5.2147483647/platform_images/blank.gif (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5181026566/m/3801097527?r=3801097527#3801097527) Posted Thu January 22 2009 07:56 Thu January 22 2009 07:56 There will be server downtime between 19:00 and 21:00 GMT. This will effect most of our titles online. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

_________________
kazzoo
Community Coordinator
Ubisoft UK

Great ehh.

onelifecrisis

01-26-10, 06:10 PM

No exactly but close. Ubi has announced this new DRM general policy, and someone from the staff of Ubi German forum announced that this was implemented for SH5.
I guess we'll hear confirmation (or not) in the next few days :ping:

Thanks for the clarification mate. :)

Letum

01-26-10, 06:12 PM

Sure, it stinks if you happen to be the few people who have no internet connection.

This stinks for all of us.
I don't think many of the people who won't accept this are doing it solidarity of the 56k chaps.

HundertzehnGustav

01-26-10, 06:13 PM

and game publishers believe it.

because it fits their sheme, and they see an opportunity to, "oppress" every actual or potential customer.

This is Madness, Neal, Madness. Greed! Woah.:o

Life is often not about facts,
life is often about what we believe is true,

and the Publishers and moneyholders WANT to believe they are losing money. in order to be even more oppressive in the future, in every shape and form.

take control of our online bank account, to verify we have actually bought the game, by 2015? Every time we start the Program?

V.C. Sniper

01-26-10, 06:18 PM

silent hunter 5 ON STEAM W00T!!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/5578/

TigerOmega

01-26-10, 06:19 PM

Rise of Flight lost me and now SH5. Guess I'll stick with SH3 and 4. Too bad I really enjoyed the Silent Hunter franchise, till now.

Adriatico

01-26-10, 06:20 PM

I just can't beleive... I thought it was a joke?
I still can't belive... that Ubi can force me - not to buy the game...:nope::nope::nope:

Letum

01-26-10, 06:20 PM

silent hunter 5 ON STEAM W00T!!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/5578/

Don't get over excited.
That doesn't mean Ubi's DRM policy isn't going to be in it.

ETR3(SS)

01-26-10, 06:23 PM

silent hunter 5 ON STEAM W00T!!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/5578/ I see a game trailer on a Steam website, but that's about it.:hmmm:

Prof

01-26-10, 06:25 PM

I pre-ordered Silent Hunter V through the Subsim Amazon link pretty much as soon as it was announced.

Having read about this ridiculous online verification, I have just cancelled my pre-order, and will not be buying SH V.

Looks like my time as a gamer is coming to an end. There is no way I'm paying for a game which might or might not be playable in a year or two.

Torp III

01-26-10, 06:31 PM

:nope: This is what "THEY" say is the straw that broke the camels back!
Canceled my pre-order.
I'll wait and see how this plays out. Ya in the future I'll most likely get SHV, but in meantime I'm still having a blast with SH III w/ GWX. Like Frau Kalun has said "SH III is the shizzle, yo"

j_o_nn_y

01-26-10, 06:59 PM

I have been reading with interest all the threads about Silent Hunter 5 on this forum. But now this new update is like a kick in the stomach especially now we have to keep logged in. Maybe it is time to leave the Silent Hunter series alone and hopefully some other company or individuals will step into the breach and produce a new subsim that dont have these draconian measures.

Reece

01-26-10, 07:02 PM

Well this confirms it for me!! I will not be buying SH5 unless a patch comes out to allow me to play off-line!:nope:
Back to SHIII!:up:

martes86

01-26-10, 07:09 PM

This is bad... maybe unnoticed in "best-selling" titles, but a major setback for titles like this one, of relatively small audience. I already see a lot of people hate the idea. This news haven't reached yet the spanish community (I've found out right now after reading a few threads here and there, and now I have to post the usual news there), but I'm guessing that a similar reaction to that seen here can be expected.

Sadly though, since it is a corporate-wide plan, I think that nothing we say here is actually going to make them change their opinions (probably would even make them withdraw support from the SH saga), they'd have to see a global impact in sales, which I seriously doubt will happen.

While I have 100% internet connection at home (14MB), I don't have internet at my Granma's. I usually take there my laptop, but she ain't a PC user, so I do stuff offline. But what if I want some games at there? Obviously, SH5 won't be one of them.
Also, what will I do when I get one of these absurd several-days internet breaks on the servers? I won't be able to play while I wait for the internet to come back?
Even more, say I've been playing like 3 hours, pure boredom well spent into my fave sim... then, the main breaker goes out. I have an UPS system, so my PC won't go out, but my router ain't plugged into that supply, so I'll lose connection. Then what? My 3 hours off the window?

These (absurd sounding, yet real in my life) situations are just a few of many possible combinations of how this new DRM stuff will go if it's as crappy as I'm thinking.

Some place quoted as reporting this, said that this was indeed a brave movement from Ubisoft... allow me to say it's a plain stupid, badly studied one... obviously they forgot to document the risks involved in such a massive change. Even Steam works better (I've like a dozen games bought there) than what we're being told about this Ubi system!

And, to finish quoting a nice fella: Meh! :haha:

Safe-Keeper

01-26-10, 07:18 PM

Yep, that's the reality. No way Ubisoft, EA or any publisher wants people playing their games without paying. It irritates me, knowing many people are playing a game for free that I pay for. If people like you and me do not buy the game, they sure as hell won't make them.EXACTLY. It's a leech thing - "Hey, I don't have to pay for this game, those suckers Safe-Keeper and Neal Stevens have done so for me! Goody for me!". I choose who to give free rides. If I know you, and want to share my game with you, fine, come over, have a coke, and let's sit down and play SH5. But people I don't know, leeching off of the fact that honest people like myself pay for our games?

You can cry about oppression, being "treated like an enemy", and all that other rhetoric all you want, but the fact is, you don't, nor have you ever, had the right to play commercial games without paying for them, and game developers and publishers have just as much of a right to make a money as do every other industry in the world, and if people keep using their services without paying for them, what are they supposed to do, just roll over and take it? I wouldn't expect this of any other industry, so why should I from the game industry? Let's say you run a grocery store. You experience significant shoplifting, so you tell your employees to try to stroll the shelves more, and you install a video surveillance system. Is this "treating customers like ENEMIES", too? Is it "oppression"? Is it "greed"? Nope, it's your right as a store owner to protect your business from theft. Plain and simple

Or another example - I went to the dentist today. They made me pay for the visit, with no leeway whatsoever. No ability to just not pay the giro, no way to "pirate" their service, no circumvention whatsoever. Is this "oppression", too, or do dentists have some kind of right that lowly game developers lack?

and the Publishers and moneyholders WANT to believe they are losing money. in order to be even more oppressive in the future, in every shape and form.It doesn't matter what they "want to believe". It matters that things cost money, and they're in the game, as you say, to make money. Just like your local baker, bus driver, deliveryman and bank.

onelifecrisis

01-26-10, 07:25 PM

EXACTLY. It's a leech thing - "Hey, I don't have to pay for this game, those suckers Safe-Keeper and Neal Stevens have done so for me! Goody for me!". I choose who to give free rides. If I know you, and want to share my game with you, fine, come over, have a coke, and let's sit down and play SH5. But people I don't know, leeching off of the fact that honest people like myself pay for our games?

You can cry about oppression, being "treated like an enemy", and all that other rhetoric all you want, but the fact is, you don't, nor have you ever, had the right to play commercial games without paying for them, and game developers and publishers have just as much of a right to make a money as do every other industry in the world, and if people keep using their services without paying for them, what are they supposed to do, just roll over and take it? I wouldn't expect this of any other industry, so why should I from the game industry? Let's say you run a grocery store. You experience significant shoplifting, so you tell your employees to try to stroll the shelves more, and you install a video surveillance system. Is this "treating customers like ENEMIES", too? Is it "oppression"? Is it "greed"? Nope, it's your right as a store owner to protect your business from theft. Plain and simple

Or another example - I went to the dentist today. They made me pay for the visit, with no leeway whatsoever. No ability to just not pay the giro, no way to "pirate" their service, no circumvention whatsoever. Is this "oppression", too, or do dentists have some kind of right that lowly game developers lack?

YEAH!
:rotfl2:

Love the passion. :up:

Seriously, I am also against piracy, though I doubt that all of the complainers are thieves.

Galanti

01-26-10, 07:27 PM

Server-side savegames is the final straw for me, I'm afraid. I can stomach (with a bit of Pepto-Bismol) online authentication and that ghastly UI, but I regularly backup my saves because of modding.

Plus, it's a bit of a longshot, but when SHIV was released, there were some game-breaking bugs that could only be resolved through hacking the savegames. And while I don't do it myself, renaming your boat can only be done through the savegame files with the current engine, and I'm betting SHV will be probably the same.

What a damned shame, looks like we'll be years away from a decent new subsim. Anyone want to start a pool to pay one of the Romanians to put out a patch the fix outstanding SH3 & 4 issues on the side?

Anachronous

01-26-10, 07:30 PM

They will have to implement an offline mode surely. It would be foolish of them not to at least have the ability play without a net connection. Even though you initially need an internet connection with Steam, you can play offline perfectly fine.

Prof

01-26-10, 07:30 PM

You can cry about oppression, being "treated like an enemy", and all that other rhetoric all you want, but the fact is, you don't, nor have you ever, had the right to play commercial games without paying for them, and game developers and publishers have just as much of a right to make a money as do every other industry in the world, and if people keep using their services without paying for them, what are they supposed to do, just roll over and take it? I wouldn't expect this of any other industry, so why should I from the game industry? Let's say you run a grocery store. You experience significant shoplifting, so you tell your employees to try to stroll the shelves more, and you install a video surveillance system. Is this "treating customers like ENEMIES", too? Is it "oppression"? Is it "greed"? Nope, it's your right as a store owner to protect your business from theft. Plain and simple
The difference is that I don't have to phone up Amazon to get permission every time I want to watch a DVD on my DVD player. Likewise, they can't deny me permission to use my DVD player just because Blu-Ray is available. I wonder how long the SH V server will remain available after SH 6 (if there is one) comes out?

To use your analogy, if a shop in town required customers to be followed by a security guard at all times to 'protect their business', I'd never go in.

StarLion45

01-26-10, 07:37 PM

:o:o:o This must be a joke :o:o:o

I don't believe this , this must be a false rumour ,
that somebody layed out on the internet , maybe sabotage
the game:hmmm:

Oh my:dead::dead::88):88)

HundertzehnGustav

01-26-10, 07:39 PM

To use your analogy, if a shop in town required customers to be followed by a security guard at all times to 'protect their business', I'd never go in.

And That is what i feel is happening if i have to be hooked up while playing...
And that feeling aint makin me comfortable. why are they doing that? I have nothing to hide, own multiple copies of SHIII because of worn out disks, before i knew certain things.
I dont need anyone looking over my shoulder as i want to chill out...
Useless feature, Gameplay wise. As a subsimmer, this soes not bring me anything. no new torps, no new Diesel, no protection from depthcharges.

At best what it gives me is a game crash because i lost my connection, and have to alt tab out to windows once in a while to see if i am still connected. Have to make sure that wireless dongle is stioll working, or even turn it on manually with a double-click.

So, i label this as useless BS, and call it "Control mania". For lack of better language.

unterseemann

01-26-10, 07:47 PM

Everyday day things get worse... I wonder what will be the next "update" :woot: from ubi?
And of course no SH5 for me... :down:

Adriatico

01-26-10, 07:48 PM

Imagine commercial-add at Gamespot:

"Change the outcome on Eastern Front by just one VIIc u-boat! Impossible? NOT ANY MORE! WITH NEW UBI SERVER EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE !"
...

DedEye

01-26-10, 07:50 PM

Sad times :down:

I don't believe this is as much about piracy as it is about publishers trying to kill the second hand game market. EA has lead the charge in this endeavour as evidenced by the move to steam; a service which has a no-transfer-no-sell policy. They also don't want people to be able to play games for decades ( I love DosBox :D), the beancounters feel we don't buy as many games.

EA has pulled the plug on authentication servers for games that are barely over a year old (I forget which ones, do a search on Blues News archives, they're there).

With much trepidation I bought RoF. Hell, I was still playing Red Baron 3D, and as someone mentioned previously, to me it seemed like a small developer doing it out of passion. My biggest concern remains that the servers will one day be switched off. Glad to hear that is going to change in a patch.

I hear ya with BF2142.

There are plenty of times when I'm at an airport and there is no i'net connection (or it costs hard earned $ to access it). When I'm waiting for a flight I fire up SH3, Civ 4, or Fallout 2.

Unless I have the option of using this product where and when I desire, and can be assured that some activation server won't be shut off because Ubi wants to kick another version out the door, it is a no sale.

Platapus

01-26-10, 07:54 PM

There are some of us who have two computers. One hooked up to the internets tubes and the other standalone for games. :stare:

Snestorm

01-26-10, 08:03 PM

This is not a good thing.

What happens to a game that requires internet connection to either register, or play, if the manufacturer goes out of business?

Ubisoft LOST money last year.
Ubisoft stock is DOWN.
Ubisoft sales are DOWN 50%.

Here is one example (They aren't hard to find):

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ubisoft-delays-key-titles-as-sales-drop-50-percent

This was a fear I had of StarForce going under, and my trying to figure out how to install SH3 on any new computer replacement.

I don't think it's a good idé to pay hard earned money for something one does not own.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 08:05 PM

To use your analogy, if a shop in town required customers to be followed by a security guard at all times to 'protect their business', I'd never go in.

What about shops with security cameras following you? Do you go into those shops? :)

Castout

01-26-10, 08:06 PM

I don't mind ETW like protection that though initial online activation is required it's not obligatory for each play that you could still play the game without connecting to steam.

Snestorm

01-26-10, 08:09 PM

Oh! Just for the record. My internet connection is outstanding, however . . .
SH3 + Vista + Live Internet Connection = Crash (In my case).

My impression of the people calling the shots at Ubisoft is Poor Management.
(This has nothing to do with the devs.)

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 08:10 PM

Phone rings with new text message from Verizon......." we have uploaded your new pictures to your new facebook account we created for you. Would you like to view them now. Thanks, customer service........

Elder-Pirate

01-26-10, 08:13 PM

i completely dissagree with you on that.

oh, and by the way i'll be playing sh3 and sh4 for the next 15 years and wont miss out on anything as far as i am concerned.

for years i have laughed at any game when i see i have to be connected to the internet to play it and see it as no different then those console only games.

if a game company makes a game i cant play on my PC (IMO online only means i cant play it) then i go buy some other game to play, be it new or old.

game companies can try to force their will on everyone against their wishes and for a while they get away with it but sooner or later enough people say no and stop buying it (literally) and give their money to games that are customer friendly.

sooner or later customers voices and opinions will matter again.

you cant sell a product if your customers wont buy it.

I agree 100% and also I might add: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/fighting431.gif to SHV.

I really wanted SHV even reading among all the pros and cons since the first mention of SHV but this so called step into the future is for people like Rockin Robbins ( I've always thought the best of you RR--And I still do-- but your posts in this thread stunk to high heaven, but that's your opinion and I'm sure a few others ) but I don't want any part of 24/7 online for playing games. I believe offline is the only way to fly.

I turn off the Internet 100% ( switch off HS Internet connection via IT Icon on tasktray ) remove about 85% processes running in the background ( Especially Anti-Virus ) and turn my AMD 9500 Phenom quad processor, GF 9600 GT OC 500mb video card and 3 1/2 Gigs loose on SHIV ( pretty much modded ). About 90% options running on SHIV and averaging 160-250 fps throughout the game ( have dropped down to 65 fps in huge battle with all kinds fire and smoke. ).

Am too old to cut the mustard anymore and in the near future I won't be above ground anyway so why torture myself with some fools whom want you to do your gaming THEIR way. NO thanks.

Here I thought it was a huge jump into the future when Ford introduced the 1949 ford which was a 100% body change from the 1948 Ford. :rotfl2:

Diesels, OMG they are taking over. :arrgh!: And then came DRM. :damn:

Well folks THATS ALL SHE WROTE, she sent your saddle home.:wah:

I just canceled my preorder, now I'm goning back to the rat race at the SHIV forum.

Sayonara and rotsa ruck. :up:

goldorak

01-26-10, 08:17 PM

What about shops with security cameras following you? Do you go into those shops? :)

Bad analogy Mr Stevens.
Once you get out the shop with your legitimate purchase thats it.
The security cameras don't follow you, and the shop owner doesn't under any cirmustance tell you how, when and if you can use the object you just purchased.

supposedtobeworking

01-26-10, 08:18 PM

Yep, count me among those who were going to buy SH5 at full price when it came out but now will not support this nonsense. I'm not going to buy a game that I may not be able to play due to internet connection failure or otherwise. I will wait until Ubisoft removes the online requirement before buying any of their products requiring this, even if it means forever.

Adriatico

01-26-10, 08:20 PM

And they even dare to serve us this c**p - WITHOUT ANY DEMO !

It's a crying shame that GWX4 was recalled for this mockery. We could have a great simulation for a yers...

Spokesman Jimbuna... did you finish your popcorn ?
;)

badkarma

01-26-10, 08:22 PM

Let's say you run a grocery store. You experience significant shoplifting, so you tell your employees to try to stroll the shelves more, and you install a video surveillance system. Is this "treating customers like ENEMIES", too? Is it "oppression"? Is it "greed"? Nope, it's your right as a store owner to protect your business from theft. Plain and simple.

To extend the analogy, if I turn up to said shop in normal opening hours and find it closed at random times, or occasionally I spend 2 hours picking everything I want to buy and when I reach the checkout they throw me out saying "sorry, our tills are down", all because of their new security.. I go shop somewhere else.
Worse than that for UBI Grocery Stores Inc, I need food to live.. I don't NEED what they're selling.

UK Community Coordinator

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/ver1.3.5.2147483647/platform_images/blank.gif (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5181026566/m/3801097527?r=3801097527#3801097527) Posted Thu January 22 2009 07:56 Thu January 22 2009 07:56 There will be server downtime between 19:00 and 21:00 GMT. This will effect most of our titles online. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

_________________
kazzoo
Community Coordinator
Ubisoft UK

This is the worst part:
Get home from a tough day at work, wife's out for the evening, want to sit down and relax with some sub simming? Tough luck!
Even though you want to play a game you payed for on your own with no multiplayer, because their server is FUBAR you can't.

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 08:22 PM

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 08:32 PM

Bad analogy Mr Stevens.
Once you get out the shop with your legitimate purchase thats it.
The security cameras don't follow you, and the shop owner doesn't under any cirmustance tell you how, when and if you can use the object you just purchased.

You're mixed up, my analogy said nothing about going outside the shop. You added that.

moose1am

01-26-10, 08:40 PM

I can't even play SH4 on my old computer. Won't be buying SH5 unless I get a new faster computer. And I would rather have to type in a serial number or insert the CD into the drive to play than have to depend on an internet connection.

Just recently (last three days) my home page was offline due to Two Hard Drives that crashed at the same time. The hard drives crashing destroyed the data base of my old ISP. So every time I tried to get online with IE8 it would stall because this ISP was my home page. Internet is not always dependable.

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 08:41 PM

With DRM foreign corporations can do what they please with the data flowing from your computer into their hands, and with the other data that they TAKE along with it, and are Excempt from US laws.......

I NEED TO SLOW DOWN........I LOVE MY NEW AVATAR.

Webster

01-26-10, 08:42 PM

UK Community Coordinator

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/ver1.3.5.2147483647/platform_images/blank.gif (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5181026566/m/3801097527?r=3801097527#3801097527) Posted Thu January 22 2009 07:56 Thu January 22 2009 07:56 There will be server downtime between 19:00 and 21:00 GMT. This will effect most of our titles online. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

_________________
kazzoo
Community Coordinator
Ubisoft UK

This is the worst part:
Get home from a tough day at work, wife's out for the evening, want to sit down and relax with some sub simming? Tough luck!
Even though you want to play a game you payed for on your own with no multiplayer, because their server is FUBAR you can't.

and from 7 to 9 pm is often the only time when most people have their free "down time" to game and relax and in your example its very likely for many people they would have just eliminated your ability to play the game for that day

Gilbou

01-26-10, 08:44 PM

The DRM is not here to stop piracy. It is here to kill games resales.

Check this :
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4020/pc_game_piracy_why_bother_with_.php

Near the end :

"Publishers aren't stupid. They know that DRM doesn't work against piracy," he explains. "What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold."

Ubisoft does not allow resale of games authenticated online through this system (you will not be allowed to resale your game ; in some US states, it is illegal to prevent first-buyer resale but you will need to go to court for that, and most people don't have the money to spend over for).

Ubisoft does not allow you to sale a game with the Ubisoft account either.

The next step will be game renting : you will pay to keep active your online account.
It will store all the authentication, no game resale will be allowed nor possible.
Stop paying : you cannot play any registered game, anywhere.

Now, you might think this is not a problem. So let's apply this to books you currently use.

Books, like games, are not really your property. You do own the book, the material piece. But the contents of the book,
the intellectual creation of its author, remains the author property (the copyright) and he lives on sales of the book.
You can offer the book, resale the book to anyone, friends and strangers.

I would be innaceptable to have to register to be able to buy a book, and read it.
Having to call someone on the phone to tell them "hello it's me. I want to read 1984 again, can I ?"
knowing that if the phone doesn't answer, you are not allowed to read the book anymore or again.
And forget about giving for free the book, or lending it, or even reselling it. No.

This is exactly the same thing with games. They want you to pay when you buy.
Make sure no one can lend (account is personnal - sharing is forbidden) nor sale (account is
personnal and all games and saves linked to it - selling the account is forbidden, so while you
can sell the box with the DVD you cannot sell the account where the game is registered...).

And some of you think there's no problem here ?

They are going much farther than the common copyright law allows. They want to kill game
resales.

People using pirated copies won't be affected by DRM. So DRM effectivness against piracy is
nil. They know it. They say that's why they put DRM but they are lying.

The lies must stop.

Highbury

01-26-10, 08:51 PM

This looks so much like the Rise of Flight forum before release. Now hardly anyone talks about the DRM, just the game. Thousands happily play it and if it was not a business success then Ubi would not be following it (not that they are directly mimicking neoqb, but you can bet they would know if it was a failure).

Sky isn't falling people, it just means you will have to use the internet connection you already obviously have, to play. Trust me that Ubi is not doing this in a clever scheme to get their hands on your juicy Visa info with the $5k limit... and you can also trust me that Ubi will not be going out of business while you have any interest in playing SHV still.

The only people negatively effected are those with no net, or those looking to steal the game. I'm sorry if you have no internet and live in the boonies, but cutting edge PC gaming is not something you should be doing, fair or not. Just like you should not be buying a Ferrari to drive on them dirt roads.

Platapus

01-26-10, 08:54 PM

What people need to do is contact Ubi and tell them that you have canceled your Pre-order and tell them why.

Or tell them why you are not deciding not to buy their game.

That is the only way Ubi will learn. They have to understand that they are losing customers specifically due to this.

I would start with Yves Guillemot and work your way down this list

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=63&art_id=&PHPSESSID=03905fe7bba071f4f07c4aab91e57304

If you are displeased with Ubi, don't just post on some game forum, let Ubi know how THEIR decisions are affecting YOUR decisions.

goldorak

01-26-10, 08:55 PM

You're mixed up, my analogy said nothing about going outside the shop. You added that.

Nice try, but you're splitting the hair in 4.
The grocery store can be protected better than Fort Knox for all I care.
The point is, and surely you realise this, that once you PURCHASE whatever it is you went inside the shop for in the first place thats it. Even if you remain inside the shop afterwards, nobody can tell you what to do with your legitimate purchase.
Maybe you should think about a better analogy ? ;)

paul_kingtiger

01-26-10, 08:59 PM

No problem at all with activating a game on line. In fact I hope the game is released on Steam, I'm a fan of the system and it's ease of use.

But I having to be connected to play is not ideal. I travel a lot and so play games to pass the time on planes and trains. Also I don't really want a Ubi account, I already have a Steam account and no way do I want to set up a separate account for each game I play.

But the only games that 100% pirate proof are MMOs and I guess Ubi wants a slice of that action.

Seeadler

01-26-10, 09:02 PM

The new system not only affects SH5 but all new Ubisoft PC games planned for release in 2010, eg Assassian Creed 2 or Prince of Persia.
The users in Ubi forums for these games are also upset.

Reece

01-26-10, 09:14 PM

I'm sorry if you have no internet and live in the boonies, but cutting edge PC gaming is not something you should be doing, fair or not. Just like you should not be buying a Ferrari to drive on them dirt roads.Dictator Highbury has spoken!:-?

Letum

01-26-10, 09:18 PM

This looks so much like the Rise of Flight forum before release. Now hardly anyone talks about the DRM, just the game.

That's because everyone who won't stand for it isn't there any more.

Several people here have mentioned that they didn't buy ROF for this
reason, myself included, even tho I tried the game elsewhere and loved it.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 09:25 PM

Nice try, but you're splitting the hair in 4.
The grocery store can be protected better than Fort Knox for all I care.
The point is, and surely you realise this, that once you PURCHASE whatever it is you went inside the shop for in the first place thats it. Even if you remain inside the shop afterwards, nobody can tell you what to do with your legitimate purchase.
Maybe you should think about a better analogy ? ;)

Again, somehow you are missing the point I made as related to the statement Prof made.

if a shop in town required customers to be followed by a security guard at all times to 'protect their business', I'd never go in.

What about shops with security cameras following you? Do you go into those shops?

He said nothing about purchases, I did not address purchases. If you just want to argue with me, have at it.

IanC

01-26-10, 09:33 PM

The only people negatively effected are those with no net, or those looking to steal the game. I'm sorry if you have no internet and live in the boonies, but cutting edge PC gaming is not something you should be doing, fair or not. Just like you should not be buying a Ferrari to drive on them dirt roads.

Silly statement.
I'm negatively affected, yet I do have the net and I'm not looking to steal the game. Just because I don't have a reliable connection, does that mean I should be kept from playing a single player game?
Ubi is now saying yes, but if you look at the polls, most people say no.

Letum

01-26-10, 09:35 PM

Both analogies are poor really; far from directly analogous.
I think that might be where the confusion and point-missing is coming from.

A good analogy for this is hard to come up with.

Onkel Neal

01-26-10, 09:41 PM

I never claimed I was making an analogy. "I would not like to shop where guards followed me." "How about a shop where they watch you on video."

Just a question, how can you make so much out of such a simple thing?

Tweety

01-26-10, 09:42 PM

I just looked at what DRM is all about.

I have never played a game on the internet or logged into some server just to play a game. If I can't play a single player game at home without the internet, then I will not buy that game. If UBI want a player to logged in then they don't have my business.

This will mess up any multinstalls or mess up any potential mods for this game.
So I will playing more SH3 and SH4, which is just fine by me.

Tweety

bigboywooly

01-26-10, 09:43 PM

The only people negatively effected are those with no net, or those looking to steal the game..

I think its fair to say that those wishing to steal the game will still do so and have the " facillity" to play offline

Its those that buy the game with poor internet connections that will suffer
Or those that want to play on the move

jclasper

01-26-10, 09:54 PM

Its not just the availability of internet its the principle
you buy the game and as a result you expect to be able to play it
I have a few games that if im online will let me play without a disc however if i am not online all i need to do is insert the disc and i can still play
I have no desire for online multiplayer and never have so why should i be tied to a constant connection to play why should any of us have to do that as many have pointed out most sh games are differant due to the mods we use how is that in the future going to be possible and is it going to be a case of this is how the game looks and plays oh and by the way you cant change it
I am all for stopping Piracy but history has shown for all new meathods the pirates just keep on getting past it as normal its a case of the majority suffering for the minority george orwells 1984 is slowly coming to life we are to be monitored in everything we do even down to our own leisure time

Ships-R-Us

01-26-10, 09:59 PM

I have read exhautively today most everything. "GILBOU" has made the most technical sense of it all. "DRM" will most doubtably cause the same issues as in the past. I understand Ubisofts reasons, and they are well intentioned with cause. Yes, DRM will cause a big problem in addition to what "GILBOU" has stated in that when the die hards are embarked on a long career and the UBISOFT server gets infected, ALL DATA may not be recoverable.

I have no information on my computer nor ever had any that would preclude me from turning all my information to the US Govt. voluntarily if the need arose even though they can steal it at any time.

I do have an issue with allowing a third world country to covertly take any information they choose "under the guise of protecting their IP assets, in order to steal other information from my computer that can be sucked out along with legit game information..........THIS IS AKIN to giving the REPUBLIC OF CHINA open acces to your computer. I run two wireless routers here and I view the logs and the intrusion attempts from China daily.

API,UPI: Los Alamos scientist reprimanded for playing SH5 in "DRM" mode on govt. computer while on duty..........

I am a strong advocate of privacy rights, and the abuse of "DRM" play by computers in the US should be outlawed.......

Letum

01-26-10, 10:06 PM

I understand Ubisofts reasons, and they are well intentioned with cause.

Preventing resale of what should be your property?
Not the best intentions...

TwistedFemur

01-26-10, 10:15 PM

Online only is fine until you get the "cannot connect to master server" error and dont get the credit for the 30,000 tons you sunk:down:

ironkross

01-26-10, 10:33 PM

Wow, so now we're at the point where we can look back at Starforce as "the good old days"! ?

"Players will be required to login to their Ubi.com account to authenticate each and every time they wish to play--and there will be no support at all for offline play." (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=62098)
I'm connected 24/7 but I'm not sure about 24/365. On those rare occasions when I'm disconnected from the internet, that is when I'm glad to have a pc game to play.

"What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold." (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4020/pc_game_piracy_why_bother_with_.php)
I almost never sell my old games. SHII sits up on the shelf even though I never play it.

"One very interesting benefit of this new account management system is how it handles save games. Your saves will be stored remotely on Ubi servers, allowing access to your game saves on any machine." (http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-settlers-7-paths-to-a-kingdom/1063391p1.html)
The game saves being stored online worry me the most. Conceivably this could wipe out hours of play for nothing.
So on the first two points theoretically I should have no problem, the third point, possibly more likely, so I think "OK, I'll try this game and if I'm not satisfied with online DRM, I've learned a lesson and won't buy another like it."
Then again, and just on principle, I think I may not buy SHV at all. If enough people don't buy it, Ubisoft will get the message; but I don't believe I would never regret not buying it either.

bigboywooly

01-26-10, 10:35 PM

The ony real loser at the moment will be subsim as no one will be buying thru Amazon and thats a shame - if all the cancelled pre orders are anything to go by, mine included

pythos

01-26-10, 10:37 PM

You may have torpedoed any chance of my buying the game.

I do not like the idea of someone else's computer drawing information from my computer. I barely like putting information over the net for registering with forums and chat sites.

I would much rather need the disk in the drive, than have this near Big Brother stuff.

I understand the security thing, but this is going too far.

Then again, perhaps I can view it like World of War craft, but that would require real time play....which with a subsim would be horrible.

simsurfer

01-26-10, 10:45 PM

Wow, what a shame to such a promising title, if this DRM is in fact going to be how one plays the game, then I'm out.

I can live with 1/2 a war, I can live with just one boat but them seeing whats on my pc & the fact that i have to connect to there's, forget this nonsense.

I will reinstall SHIII with Pleasure!

JSLTIGER

01-26-10, 10:47 PM

I won't buy the game with this protection scheme in place. I have no problems with DRM like Steam. That seems fair to me, and to be honest, I like having the games linked to an account and knowing that I can redownload and install them as many times as I please, thank you very much.

But, as others have said, I don't like the idea of not being able to access my games when the internet has gone down because my ISP sucks or because Ubisoft pulls the plug on the servers. With all due respect to Ubi, they're a good publishing warehouse, but from my perspective they don't have the best track record in supporting their games...Far Cry 2, for instance still has plenty of bugs in it that have not been (and do not appear to be in the process of being) fixed. I will not buy a product that I may not be able to play in a few years because Ubi has pulled the servers for it. This kind of thing and pay-by-the-month games like WoW drive me insane. I will not purchase them. I simply refuse. No way, no how, no thank you Ubisoft.

simsurfer

01-26-10, 10:53 PM

I wonder how many people have canceled there pre-orders? Nice going Ubi$0ft

Reece

01-26-10, 10:58 PM

Just imagine if the GWX team worked on GWX5, this can take a few years, you get everything spot on then UBI shuts down support for the game! Throw the disc in the bin!! everything was for nothing!!:nope: I can't get over how nasty they are!!:damn:

Tim D

01-26-10, 11:07 PM

This is really sad news, but I really learned my lesson with SHIII and Starforce (had to get a new computer). Thank goodness Ubi was able to make a version that did not include that software anymore. Hopefully they will get this worked out, it just might take some time (it took a while with Starforce)

Hornet

01-26-10, 11:08 PM

Well, I had issues with Ubi for sometime now over some aspects of SH3. You can't play human dd's in multiplayer and things like that. I felt that was the only thing missing from a perfect game....bring back the SH2/DC days...I LOVED it....which would have made SH3 even more awesome.

But I was actually looking forward to SH5 coming out because I thought UBI would actually listen to the modders, players and mission designers and give them what they wanted....BUT NOOOOOO, looks like they messed this up too...I've always questioned who was running the show over there.

If all of this IS true, then that might add about 5 years to SH3....LOL

Guys: if I ever win the lottery and have millions of dollars...I promise you this....We will design a game based on SH3 campaign, multiplayer and have everything in it we want.... Even If I have to hire the best people in the world to make it happen and sale it for a loss to get what we want. At that point I would be rich so what would I care???...Anyone have any lucky numbers I can play? :damn: Or just know a rich uncle?

Hornet

Lanzfeld

01-26-10, 11:13 PM

Guys: if I ever win the lottery and have millions of dollars...I promise you this....We will design a game based on SH3 campaign, multiplayer and have everything in it we want.... Even If I have to hire the best people in the world to make it happen and sale it for a loss to get what we want. At that point I would be rich so what would I care???...Anyone have any lucky numbers I can play? :damn: Or just know a rich uncle?

Hornet

I have had this dream myself. LOL.

But sadly it seems this will be the only way we will ever get a good AOD style sim again.:nope:

Letum

01-26-10, 11:15 PM

Don't forget danger deep.

Tweety

01-26-10, 11:16 PM

I wonder how many people have canceled there pre-orders? Nice going Ubi$0ft

I didn't order SH5. I wanted to wait and see what happened after it was released. Now that DRM is involved. I will not order at all. I like to play single player games without having the internet running in the background. I have played a lot of games in the past 20 years that didn't require internet to play. I will continue to play and have fun without the internet.

Sh3 is a good game that has a lot of immersion, where I can have a lot of fun playing.

It isn't a good thing for Subsim to lose out on the revenue they would receive with the purchase of SH5. So I will continue to support Subsim with donations and other games I can order that doesn't involve the internet to play.

Tweety

Steeltrap

01-26-10, 11:19 PM

This is what I feared when I started a thread about the question of copy protection.

Steam activation then play online is OK.

Constant connection to yet another game server, requiring a separate account? No thanks.

Yet another password/account? No thanks.

I do not run my connection all the time, although I have ADSL2+. A connection = risk, no matter how low that risk may be. I login for specific reasons, otherwise remain disconnected.

At least I won't have to worry about what quality this game will be. Shame as I've bought every single title (except the SH4 expansion), including the original Silent Service.

Cheers

THE_MASK

01-26-10, 11:32 PM

I wont be buying SH5 after reading this thread .

HMS Astute

01-27-10, 12:45 AM

Suicidal move by Ubi.

My internet connection is often pretty temperamental, periodic cut outs and the like, so I'd regularly be unable to play the game :nope:

henriksultan

01-27-10, 01:26 AM

Just read this at some random blog and jumped right here and found this thread, I just hope this isn't part of SH5 coz I really want this game.

Cloud saving is a great thing IF you can choose it, not being forced that is just a retard move. Internet trouble and no go, internet trouble while playing no saving? There is so many what if scenarios that this should not be implemented.

Truly I understand your fears of piracy but I can't understand why you keep kicking on the players that actually buy the game because they love it. Please stop it UBI. This might be a buy breaker for me... If you force me to be online and send data to you... I wont buy your games.

And will this **** up modding?

maurader

01-27-10, 01:49 AM

Mr Neal Stevens, it doesn't matter if the pc is or isn't connected to the internet 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Its a matter of principle. The moment a third party dicates what you can and cannot do to the game you have PURCHASED well you haven't purchased anything but a promise that they will let you use it. God know for how much time, and if they decide to cut you off you're f **** d.
Let me ask you, would you find acceptable to ask a third party for authorization everytime you would like to read a book in your personal library ?
I bet you wouldn't. See its the same issue. Giving up what you legally PURCHASED.

Funny you should bring up the example about reading a book.
For all those people who dont think it could happen, just look at this article:

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/08/ebook-drm-provider-g.html

In this case, the book publisher wasnt even the one who went belly up. The DRM provider just went away and left the customers out in the cold. The book publisher didnt even have the encryption keys to give their customers what they paid for. So even if the publisher promised to fix the issue, they couldnt do anything about it.

I am very disappointed because I have supported Silent Hunter (as well as many other simulations) since the DOS days. In fact I still play some of those old games (i.e. Nascar Racing 2003 was just played today) and some of those companies are no longer around. I really wanted to get Silent Hunter 5 and the new Ghost Recon but I guess that is no more Ubisoft games for me. I even put up with Starforce because at least I could play it whenever I wanted.

karamazovnew

01-27-10, 01:54 AM

We'll eventually all have free internet on our fingernails, through subspace, or whatever... But until then, if Ubi decides to use an online DRM for SH5, I won't buy the game. The main attraction of the game, for me, is that I can play it on my 4-month long VLCC trips. We do have internet there, but not like THAT. It's more like one mail per day or 10 mins of Yahoo Messenger to talk to the miss. It would be a major blow, I really was looking forward to playing the game. Oh well, we'll see. Not long to go now.

Radioshow

01-27-10, 02:07 AM

I belong to a clan for SWAT4 and COD4 with over 100 members, a great number of them are from Australia. Now their Inet costs twice as much or more than here in Canada and they are heavily restricted and limited in bandwidth. So what does an Aussie do when they are halfway through the month and are capped(limited to dialup speed or worse)?
Do you not play SH5 for the rest of the month because you don't have the bandwidth. There are other considerations besides just having a connection. My router likes to get fracked and stop responding once in a while and i have to restart it. What do I do then? How do I play on my other pc's without Inet?

DRM isn't so much the problem with me. Its the fact that they are giving us less and asking for more. I have over 80 store bought dos games that were not even close to 50$ when they came out. They had many hours of gameplay, a huge printed manual, and had replayability.
Why should I pay $50 or more for a game that will last one weekend and its done. Granted sh5 is not a one weekend game but most now are 10-15 hours gameplay at best with the odd exception of Oblivion or Fallout3.

All this to prevent piracy and resales is just :damn: Most pirates would not have bought the game anyway, dont tell me they would have bought it if they couldnt pirate it. So they really are not losing revenue just missing out on some potential revenue. The game costs $50 or more, if I want to trade or sell to a friend, well they got their money why cant resale it at EBgames or something after say a year. By then many games are hard to find in stores and I dont have a CreditCard to buy online. I got alot of old dos games used at EBgames. I pay for my games but I cant afford $50 on a game that "might" work ok or might not. I also dont have a lot of money, suppose I can no longer afford a net connection for a while?

If this was a DVD you bought ,and they get hijacked enough, would you be ok with calling everytime to watch it. Or having a limited number of viewings, on only 1 DVD player, that has to be connected to inet and if your net goes down you cant watch it? Movies cost alot more to make and I'm sure are pirated much more yet they do less to protect them.
I find a game not really any different. Its a piece of entertainment media you paid good money for to enjoy in your home at your leisure, not theirs.
If people aren't buying enough of your games UBI look to yourself!

Activation, fine. Online to check it, fine. Online while playing and online save games, not fine. I dont need them checking my PC for census info or whatever. If I'm paying good money for a game, I expect to play it when I want, where I want.

THE_MASK

01-27-10, 02:15 AM

I belong to a clan for SWAT4 and COD4 with over 100 members, a great number of them are from Australia. Now their Inet costs twice as much or more than here in Canada and they are heavily restricted and limited in bandwidth. So what does an Aussie do when they are halfway through the month and are capped(limited to dialup speed or worse)?
Do you not play SH5 for the rest of the month because you don't have the bandwidth. There are other considerations besides just having a connection. My router likes to get fracked and stop responding once in a while and i have to restart it. What do I do then? How do I play on my other pc's without Inet?

DRM isn't so much the problem with me. Its the fact that they are giving us less and asking for more. I have over 80 store bought dos games that were not even close to 50$ when they came out. They had many hours of gameplay, a huge printed manual, and had replayability.
Why should I pay $50 or more for a game that will last one weekend and its done. Granted sh5 is not a one weekend game but most now are 10-15 hours gameplay at best with the odd exception of Oblivion or Fallout3.

All this to prevent piracy and resales is just :damn: Most pirates would not have bought the game anyway, dont tell me they would have bought it if they couldnt pirate it. So they really are not losing revenue just missing out on some potential revenue. The game costs $50 or more, if I want to trade or sell to a friend, well they got their money why cant resale it at EBgames or something after say a year. By then many games are hard to find in stores and I dont have a CreditCard to buy online. I got alot of old dos games used at EBgames. I pay for my games but I cant afford $50 on a game that "might" work ok or might not. I also dont have a lot of money, suppose I can no longer afford a net connection for a while?

Activation, fine. Online to check it, fine. Online while playing and online save games, not fine. I dont need them checking my PC for census info or whatever. If I'm paying good money for a game, I expect to play it when I want, where I want.
Not only that , but there is no way on this planet i am paying $80 odd aussie dollars for a pc game that no one can say inthe future if i can play it .

John W. Hamm

01-27-10, 02:16 AM

Came back recently to catch up with RFB and see any new developments on SHV ...I started to get a bit excited and pre-ordered...and I guess that i'm not alone in the fact that the more I read about the content of the game the less excited I became. But i was still willing to give it a chance (knowing the modding community would be there. Now tonight (I guess I missed it the last time I was here) I find this information about DRM and my once great single player game will have to stay connected to the net??? Not a chance.

I have Empire total war and when I bought it I had no idea until I got home that I still had to wait on steam to get to play it! and wait mad as hell I did! I didn't use steam on purpose and bought a hard copy...then it turned out I still needed steam! Worse I could not just download patches and save them (which i eventually leaned how to do it just took some creativity)

But the worst part about Steam came later, after the Empire Mods came out. I would get the game right where I wanted it using Mods and BAMMM! I was hit with an update (no choice in the matter at all) and not only were the mods wiped out but also all the little tweaks I had made over time. But then I learned you could keep Steam from auto updating! Well that is not so true as you would like to think. 4 times I turned off auto update and 4 times it turned itself back on (I know this didn't happen to everyone but it certainly happened to several people)

Now I am not as totally against Steam as I once was. At least not now that ETW is finished being patched and I can play it with Steam turned off. Enough about Steam, DRM makes Steam look good.

Now can you imagine SH5 and being connected all the time... middle of a Campaign ...AUTO UPDATE....Sorry but do to the content of this update you will have to start a new campaign!!! and all save games will be unplayable (no matter what you say) I guarantee this will happen!

Never before have I seen an entire community be so one sided on an issue, and to be honest this community is the heart of the SH series...lets face it sub games really are a small niche in the gaming industry. And if the core people are this mad... I for once don't see a game getting very far without it's community, I honestly do not think this game will survive on the casual gamer alone.

It is my understanding there is a Flight Sim called Rise of Flight and it uses this DRM and in the forums for ROF things were in shambles over DRM, but now people have lightened up... and it's not so bad (this is according to some other post's i had read earlier) and that poster believed that the model he presented for that games community issues with DRM would most likely play out the same for this community with SHV. And that UBI will continue to get money....etc...etc...

Well i disagree first Flight sim games in general have a much larger fan base than sub sims. Second me and several friends are avid flight simmers and also fly in RL. Currently I have Falcon 4.0 and it's two top super mods, Flight Sim X, UBI's Pacific Fighters, and Microsoft's Flight Combat ET. So you could say I fly here and there and until I read this forum today I had never heard of Rise of Flight... and neither had any of my friends... so yeah they have a fan base but apparently it could have been a lot bigger. I wonder why it wasn't?

All that being said My internet connection actually went out 1 time while I was typing this...Not to mention Cox cable does repairs at least once a week between 3 AM and 5 AM here (which is my prime time to play due to my work schedule) So given the connection issues and the fact that it is just flat wrong I am killing my Pre-order!

I have one more thing to add I have always felt like this forum was a home that i could come back to over and over...

in this forum you have always been able to see a lot of the same people here time after time and I know all new people have always been given a warm welcome! and it has been next to never that i have ever seen dissent here (save the surface boat thing but that was partly my fault and I accept my share of the blame) but in just this thread there has been a lot of dissent.

Like i said earlier most people agree that they do not want to support UBI in this endeavor, I am also one of them, and if you choose to support them that is fine you have your right to your opinion. However to say things to your fellow simmer like (and I am not quoting) Well if you can't get internet or a good signal that is just your tough luck!!????? or this reason or that reason too bad for you???? Come on guys this is one of those things that are prima-facia! whats right is right! and whats wrong is wrong!

If you support UBI in this clearly you are going against a whole bunch of your core fellow sub simmers and in this case I really feel like there is a legitimate gripe here!

jazman

01-27-10, 02:33 AM

If the reviews of SH5 are good, most of you will come crawling back like a beaten dog.

As for me, the Pacific awaits: Silent Hunter 4, and War in the Pacific.

Highbury

01-27-10, 02:33 AM

It is my understanding there is a Flight Sim called Rise of Flight and it uses this DRM and in the forums for ROF things were in shambles over DRM, but now people have lightened up... and it's not so bad (this is according to some other post's i had read earlier) and that poster believed that the model he presented for that games community issues with DRM would most likely play out the same for this community with SHV. And that UBI will continue to get money....etc...etc...

Well i disagree first Flight sim games in general have a much larger fan base than sub sims. Second me and several friends are avid flight simmers and also fly in RL. Currently I have Falcon 4.0 and it's two top super mods, Flight Sim X, UBI's Pacific Fighters, and Microsoft's Flight Combat ET. So you could say I fly here and there and until I read this forum today I had never heard of Rise of Flight... and neither had any of my friends... so yeah they have a fan base but apparently it could have been a lot bigger. I wonder why it wasn't?

You might be talking about me here.. so yeah, flight sims do have a bigger fanbase. The reason you probably missed SimHQ's Sim of the Year for last year is either because you don't really follow flight sims as close as you may think, or because it was a first effort by a brand new, small company.. probably a bit of both.

My point is, if a game that was so small that it went under your radar can survive this DRM, and server hosted saves then something as big as a Ubi title in the Silent Hunter series will certainly survive it. You prove that point yourself. ROF even went one further then SHV is, they sell add on planes.

I am not saying it won't lose them some sales, I am just saying it will come nowhere near making the game a failure. The masses WILL buy it.

Letum

01-27-10, 02:38 AM

ROF hasn't exsactly had the biggest sales for a combat flight sim...
I'm told the multpilayer is dead.

John W. Hamm

01-27-10, 02:57 AM

You might be talking about me here.. so yeah, flight sims do have a bigger fanbase. The reason you probably missed SimHQ's Sim of the Year for last year is either because you don't really follow flight sims as close as you may think, or because it was a first effort by a brand new, small company.. probably a bit of both.

My point is, if a game that was so small that it went under your radar can survive this DRM, and server hosted saves then something as big as a Ubi title in the Silent Hunter series will certainly survive it. You prove that point yourself. ROF even went one further then SHV is, they sell add on planes.

I am not saying it won't lose them some sales, I am just saying it will come nowhere near making the game a failure. The masses WILL buy it.

Just got done checking it out, and you could be right maybe I wasn't paying attention the whole year straight through (digging sand out of my ears)....and from everything I just read neither were many others (in comparison to a decent portion of the market that clearly alienated) I think the fact that they are small could be a reason why they have survived (very low overhead and everything they made is then mostly profit.) their online community is in fact next to dead. I would venture to guess if they put out another a lot of the people that bought it last time just to see what it was about more than likely will not be buying the next time.

It's real shame too that games looks great but...I guess I will never know how it really works. DRM.

the games community has not given up! this is their recent wish list I stopped copying about half way down... but apparently they are still not happy with DRM.

And apparently the coGeneral:
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY WINDSOCK! (fix it)
Better UI (more in-flight options, menu for hand motions, saving convergence/loadout/paint)
Custom skins (with option to use in-game custom paint interface)
More detailed terrain (hills, valleys, different trees, etc.)
More detailed joystick options (setting of curves and deadzones, better profile mangement)
Quick mission generator
Decrease load times (in whatever ways possible)
External or in-game custom content access
SLI and Crossfire support
In depth manual on the mission editor (including tutorials)
An option to play offline (perhaps just easing up on the online verification frequency)<-----------------------------------------
Improved performace (Anti-aliasing, multi-core support, TrackIR support, etc.)
Ability to run dedicated server without an additional copy <--------------------------------------------