The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[zulus]

This technique reminds me a bit of GTA IV. No big deal IMO, Razor1911 likes to take these kinds of challenges. They will free majority of users from doing these kind of nonsences which casual player doesn't wish to mess around with.. Personally if they will include DRM into SHV I will seriously reconsider whether it is worth buying or it worth simply bein downloaded via torrents with necessary tools to bypass forced internet registration to play the game.

[Reece]

@ zulus, PM sent.

[HundertzehnGustav]

zulus, look out where ya walking... you be dancing the chicken dance in a minefield.

with closed eyes.

:nope:

[THE_MASK]

If everyone bought the game we wouldnt be in this mess .

[zulus]

zulus, look out where ya walking... you be dancing the chicken dance in a minefield.

with closed eyes.

:nope:

Sorry can't help myself, I'm the adrenalin maniac :) Seriously, I just wanted to point out the main thing that doing such things like Implemetation of DRM system will not asure security of a product. For example Rockstar to GTA4 has invested thousands of bucks into copyright security but RZR "sorted" this thing in 3 days or so. So you do the conclussions, what's for me is I dunno is it wise to waste money into things like DRM, actually this system is just silly. I would like to hear more from UBI about this. And are they actually thinking implementing DRM into SH5 ?

[zulus]

So in my poor opinion I think that DRM is just creating more troubles for users who actually bought it than it gives any benefits.. It's like you never bought a game but more like renting the game. Question is Ubi can also make registration account expirable with any let's say patch released. So UBI might pull the strings on you despite that you payed for the very first version, later you might be asked to repay for patches or addons released. Finally you can't say I have all this game in my PC! No because your arms is tight with the Internet connection, no internet no game ? Nah.. I'm not supporting this idea in any way. Sue me if you don't like my opinion, it;s just the way I see it.

[Boris]

If everyone bought the game we wouldnt be in this mess .

Yes, but never in the history of PC gaming has this ever been the case. So they're trying to revert to a state that never was.

[Rosencrantz]

Ok, to me the question is simple: Buy or not to buy. With DRM it'll be very likely not to buy. No matter if I have decent connetion, I just don't like the idea that a legitimate customer need to prove his legitimacy 24/7 just because the company is crying after money lost to the piracy.

As long as I don't pirate - Why should I care?

As long as I buy my product - Why should I fight the company's war?

As long as I don't steal - Why should I be punished?


So simple is that...


Greetings,
-RC-

[Alienfresser]

[QUOTE=Highbury;1247568]This looks so much like the Rise of Flight forum before release. Now hardly anyone talks about the DRM, just the game. Thousands happily play it and if it was not a business success then Ubi would not be following it (not that they are directly mimicking neoqb, but you can bet they would know if it was a failure).
QUOTE]

Have to disagree with you. Stopped, and many other players too, playing RoF because of constant errors with the server-connection. Missions don't get saved, MP dropping, server not reachable and so on. Or why do you think they plan to remove the always-on "feature" from the game.

They simply making the same mistake as neoqd.

[sk065]

My connection is crappy I cant even stream youtube videos during peak times. There ie absolutley nothing i can do about this other than move to the city. On top of that I use a laptop for internet and a gaming rig not connected to the net to play games.

So its not about principle for me - its about not being able to play this way. Therefore, I cant purchace SH5.

I also see it promiting piracy - not hindering it.

[zulus]

In short Ubisoft as games dev company of course wants to protects their products and adds themsleves into war against piracy and all the evil it costs to them and that's fine and commendable. It's just they just don't realize yet, they have chosen wrong weapons for that. Despite good wishes some users will be pushed to behave illegaly with these kind of restrictions..

[DaWu]

thats it 4 me too. I really looked forward to it but this has become something personal now. I am not let me get treated like a pirate when I buy a legit copy. I am buying games for twenty years now and this is the most idiotic idea I heard of so far. even though my computer is connected 24/7 and my con is very strong I wont buy it and accept this drm. just because I dont accept the way ubi thinks they can treat their customers.

this protection will be passed by in a hurry and with so many other great games coming out this spring I can easily put sh to the side.

[John W. Hamm]

No idea if i will get put in the brig for this or not but...I found this @ UBI.com

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2700/hitelryescanubi.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2460/sinkubisoft.jpg

[Barra1]

the way I see it is that the price of piracy is factored into the price of the software. It is a garbage argument to say piracy cost's us this much blah, blah, blah. Sorry Ubi but the way I see it is if we are to continue to put up with this sort of rot then surely this will be the cheapest Silent Hunter ever as the community will no longer have to foot the bill for piracy. "Sorry what was that? You were just going to add it to the bottom line of your profits were you?":x:x

[rea00cy]

To me, this is the last nail in the coffin for SH5...:mad:

and remember.... the hate you'll take is = to the hate you give....

[Danji]

i'm not sure if this joke exist in english too. but i'll try to translate a romanian joke. There once was a fox. The fox suddenly felt like eating pancakes, but it (in romanian it's "she" ) had no frying pan. So she went to the bear to ask him for a frying pan. On her way to him ( the bear is considered male so i'll reffer to it as "him" ) she thought : "what if the bear will ask me for some pancakes as thanx for borrowing me the pan ?" . Half way there she though " what if he will take advantage of his size and place in the forest and demand half my pancakes? " . Almost reaching the bear's house she thought "what if he'll take half my pancakes and charge me for the pan too?". Finally reaching the bear's house, she rang the bell, the bear answered, and as soon as the bear opened the door she madly told the bear : " F you and your stupid pan, i don't even want it anymore! ".

Sorry if this seems like trolling or spamming or offtopic.

[simsurfer]

If the reviews of SH5 are good, most of you will come crawling back like a beaten dog.

As for me, the Pacific awaits: Silent Hunter 4, and War in the Pacific.

How wrong you are, in my case anyway.

[Ryokosman]

Well crud. What a bummer to read the OP article. We're building a new house off the beaten path and there will probably not be high speed there for decades.. Guess I'll just have to wait and see what the cracker crowd comes up with so I can play.

[vigilante]

Wel, I'm a bit ashamed SH5 it's a product made in my country, but I guess the decision of using DRM came from France headquarters.
At this point, SH5 have tons of requirements and offer a pretty lousy product in exchange.

- SH5 ask for high-end hardware
- SH5 offer just one sub type and their war ends in 1943
- SH5 need a powerful and stable Internet connection to run
- SH5 wants my details when I pay them for the product, now they want my game saves. Probably they will spy further.

That's too much for a niche game. It doesn't worth it.

[Jotte]

My main concern is what happens down the road when they decide to pull the plug on said authentication server either through a will of selling us some new product or by UBi going out of bussiness.

And blaming this move on piracy is outright daft. Its to simplify the situation far to much.

[theluckyone17]

I gain nothing from this particular DRM:
I've got plenty of other games where I have to insert the disc to play.
I have only one gaming PC.
I have plenty of hard drive space to save games locally.

I have no interest in buying into DRM that does not provide a single benefit to me, while placing additional limitations upon me.

Constantly connected to the internet? Yeah, I am... most of the time... until Roadrunner goes out, my router acts up, cat chews on the ethernet cable.

God forbid I go wireless with my desktop, as I have in the past. A few dropped packets? Pop, I'm out of my game 'cause Ubisoft can't reach me.

I realize the EULA states I only bought a license to play, and I have not purchased the game itself. As a result, there are limitations placed on the license. Well, I don't like those limitations. Unfortunately, unlike most contracts, I can't negotiate for a EULA without those limitations. Guess I won't be entering into that contract.

Congratulations, Ubisoft. Your implementation of DRM has taken my die-hard "Gotta *HAVE* SH5 when it comes out" attitude and converted it into a "I'll pass, thank you very much". Add one more reason a niche-market game can have to bomb.

[ReM]

I am disappointed to hear that UBI are shooting themselves in the foot by forcing this too-intrusive DRM software upon us.

To be honest I am not sure whether I will buy the game or not. Chances are that the connected-to-internet obligation will be lifted after the first hype an biggest part of sales have passed.

Although I own an original Starforce-infected copy of SHIII I was able to find another one in the bargain bin, without map and booklet, but also without Starforce and patched to 1.4b as well (for a whopping € 5,-) I see the same scenario for SHV; a little patience may solve the whole matter.

I am also still counting on IW to make dedicated servers possible for MW2 as well...maybe not overly realistic but I think everything will work out fine in the long end. Same goes for SHV.

[tonschk]

.


The Silent Hunter SH3/4 game is the ONLY one game I play ( the first person shooters games are silly/boring ) and I have excellent and permanent internet connection , UBISOFT is the owner/developer of this software/game ,unfortunately we dont have plenty of other submarine simulations to choose from , http://1.2.3.11/bmi/forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif therefore without a doubt I will buy this SH5 game http://1.2.3.11/bmi/forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


.

[zulus]

UBI BEWARE THIS SIGN IT BITES HARD: I hope UBI will still reconsider the choice about DRMAnd please x1000 times don't make me be a sinner.Make me want to buy it proudly.

[Danji]

UBI BEWARE THIS SIGN IT BITES HARD: I hope UBI will still reconsider the choice about DRMAnd please x1000 times don't make me be a sinner.Make me want to buy it proudly.

I'm not sure, but i think that's one of the reasons they're protecting the game with such an anti-piracy system. It's a vicious circle.

[Hitman]

It's funny that some people I have seen in this thread being not bothered with this kind of DRM are americans. The sons of the land of freedom are now ready to provide real time info to a foreign commercial company about their gameplay habits, their saves, the names they choose, wether they machine gun survivors from sunken ships, etc.

I think most of you still do not realize that this is not just about your confort while playing the game, about chances of getting an internet failiure and losing progress, about the chances that UBI goes bankrupt and you lose your game, about UBI requesting money for patches and the server not allwoing you to play an unpatched version, or anything like that.

It's about OUR PRIVACY

And that is something that I value more than any game present or future.

How sad I feel about this all :wah:

[mstang67]

I'm sorry if you have no internet and live in the boonies, but cutting edge PC gaming is not something you should be doing, fair or not. Just like you should not be buying a Ferrari to drive on them dirt roads.

You know, I lived in remote islands in Alaska for years when I was younger while my father worked his ass off. We didn't have internet. Sometimes we had to drive a mile and a half to use a satellite phone because one place we lived at didn't have phones. There are a lot of hard working people living in places like these, and according to your statement they shouldn't be able to use new games? Do they not deserve it? Their kids shouldn't be able to enjoy games? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that was really a jackass statement. If SH5 comes with this BS I won't buy it, which is too bad because I was really excited for it. I won't support a company that says "screw our fans" like that. Stupid crap like this just makes people more desperate and creates more pirates and cracks and crap like that. I don't support them, but can definitely see where this will lead to more of it. Bad move Ubi :down:

[martes86]

I'm telling you, if there's a cracker interested enough with plenty of spare time, SH5 will be cracked. I like to have contacts around, and I'm being told that nowadays, games are being cracked even before they're released, about 99% of protected games can be cracked (as opposed to "will actually be cracked"). Even Steam was cracked. I didn't believe it myself until I saw live proof of it (I ain't telling you how to make it, though :D ).

Interest on the subject in question (passion for it, the will to archieve the goal), and spare time. With these 2, ALMOST ANYTHING can be cracked. And note I'm not justifying anything on piracy, I'm just telling you what the reality is, just like it's also reality that the modern world is becoming a worse place because of the financial crisis.

Cheers. :rock:

[zulus]

True.. Seeing such desperate moves from UBI makes difficult to hold a grip on yourself and try not to spit something nasty into the ocean.. Not to mention all of the recent news about game make-up that already gave hard times to spectate it with impotent calmness. Maybe we shouldn;t be so sceptic, cuz maybe more awfull news going to follow soon ?.. Sad, just sad..

[Axlwolf]

I think this is the end for me :)
In this last years,i have become deeply concerned about all those DRM in various game.
I think this trend will only get worse,and really end my gaming days.
I can say that i own only ORIGINAL copy of game.
My player career started in the 1998,Unreal the first game i bought,i REALLY miss those days.
I purchased a complete game.

-Now if i buy a game i NEED to install some patch because the game has heavy fault from the beginning.

-I NEED to download some DLC because some mods use it.This trend started for me with Fallout 3,it's not the end of the world but...:cry: i miss some mod.It's the only game i own with some kind of online arrassement,the infamous Windows Live,and i can say i buyed it only when i understood i can have an OFFLINE account.

-I NEED to authenticate online my install (I can accept to go online...ONE time)

Like many other i have two rigs,one for the net,and one for games.
But my connection it's not stable,and i live in a big city,and even if i asked many times at my ISP what is happening when i have some unexplainable down time or heavy slow down,they never explain anything.
I've been in this situation for many years.
Now,many said that this is the 21 century,but i can say that here,where i live,it's NOT YET the 2010,regarding technology.
It could be true in some big country like the U.S.A. where it seems that technology and innovation are easy to get,but where i live(i am from europe)it's NOT that easy.
I've waited almost two years for my ADSL :damn:.
And one time i've lost TOTALLY my connection and phone for two months because they decided that it whas too cheap for them and simply they shut down the service,without any explanation!!!
And like me there are several others people in all my country in the same condition.

I can't stand to be in the hand of others to play my game.
I purchase a product to enjoy it,not to literally eat my liver in rage because something i can't control does not work.

I Buyed and loved Silent Hunter 3

I Buyed Silent Hunter 4 because,despite some bad comment on the net i was sure this glorious community would have made the game better.And i even buyed the addon U-Boat mission.I have to say a big "THANK YOU" to the many modders in this community.

And many other game from other publisher...i would really liked to buy,but...

Now...

Well,it was fun till it lasted.

Like many other i have two option

1)-Go ahead and throw my hard earned money in what it seems a big gaming nuisance.

2)-Simply move to other thing...

I've loved the community here,and even if i don't post often,i check it every day,and i will continue to do so.
Till the end!
Good luck everyone.:salute:

[hyperion2206]

Well now that Ubisoft has confirmed that you need to be connected to the internet while playing and that all my save games are stored online, they have lost a customer.

I was really looking forward to play that game but I won't let Ubisoft tell me how to play a game. Besides: You can't play your game you paid a lot of bucks for if your internet connection brakes down? WTF!

What's next? Mercedes or GM will put GPS trackers i your car and won't allow you to drive if you don't have a connection to a satelite?:yeah:

[tiger shark]

Well I was monitoring the situation on this forum for i long time,and i haven't posted any complaints about SHV because I was hoping for the best,but know i really have to say this:
I will never ever ever ever buy a game or anything with DRM,this is terrible mistake for ubi,and I just hope that they will wake up on time!
this really makes me mad,very mad....

[MRV]

The most funny thing is that this will damatically decrease the number of sold copies of SH5 and probably make UBI cancel the franchise because they think no one wants u boat sims anymore....

What's next? Mercedes or GM will put GPS trackers i your car and won't allow you to drive if you don't have a connection to a satelite?:yeah:thats good *lol* I'm waiting for support accounts for cars you can access with the car radio. It starts up every time you start the engine and checks if there are chinese 3rd-party spare parts built in....


Here is my confession: MY legally bought copy of SH5 will be NO CD CRACKED! I also would suggest that in case SH5 really comes with such a system the community should openly distribute such cracks as an act of protest.

Why? because I want to make sure I still can play a game in case ubisoft declares bankrupticy and shuts down its servers, which is soon going to happen if they go on like this....

[irish1958]

I will not purchase a game with these restrictions, no matter how good, period.
If or when the game becomes available without them, I will reconsider.

[Boris]

I love how they euphemistically package a drakonian and annoying DRM as "our online service"... as if it were something special they're doing for us.

[martes86]

Here is my confession: MY legally bought copy of SH5 will be NO CD CRACKED! I also would suggest that in case SH5 really comes with such a system the community should openly distribute such cracks as an act of protest.

Right reasons, wrong approach. It's been said like a thousand times (or more) that here in Subsim, you can do whatever you please with cracks at home, but that you should not discuss it here or encourage others to also crack it. That just grants you problems with the moderators.

Cheers. :rock:

[zulus]

I wouldn't say no to protest remotely:http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6136/2007052809525621drmprot.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/2007052809525621drmprot.jpg/)

[karamazovnew]

Here is my confession: MY legally bought copy of SH5 will be NO CD CRACKED! I also would suggest that in case SH5 really comes with such a system the community should openly distribute such cracks as an act of protest.


Be careful with such statements. However it would be funny if the game is cracked and some people that say they won't buy the game (including me) will eventually buy it thanks to the cracked version :haha:. That would close up the weirdest piracy/drm cycle ever. :har:

[JSLTIGER]

Be careful with such statements. However it would be funny if the game is cracked and some people that say they won't buy the game (including me) will eventually buy it thanks to the cracked version :haha:. That would close up the weirdest piracy/drm cycle ever. :har:

It wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened, and it likely wouldn't be the last.

[connan]

Well it would be ok for me if players that are online then they could coperate to finish some special missions during campaign, something like you have to do a special mission but that would be impossible to do it alone. If ubisoft could make something like that then noone will complain about the online gaming.

[floundericiousWA]

I also would suggest that in case SH5 really comes with such a system the community should openly distribute such cracks as an act of protest.


:timeout: sorry, mate, you're on your own

I'm going to wait until a month or two after release and read about other people's experiences, then decide. If I don't like the DRM execution, I won't buy, but I will NOT participate in this type of criminal activity out of simple frustration or angst. UBIsoft owes me <I>nothing</I>.

UBI has the legal right to offer this game (their IP) and include whatever data protections they deem fit. If I disagree with their implementation, I have no problem posting that to their forum (or here) and refusing to purchase the product. That's how the marketplace works. :shucks:

There's always my GWX 3.0 Silent Hunter III and my GFO RE Silent Hunter IV (I should try trigger maru!) which give great service. :arrgh!:

:ping: raise the radar antenna! Let's keep an eye on it...

[floundericiousWA]

Be careful with such statements. However it would be funny if the game is cracked and some people that say they won't buy the game (including me) will eventually buy it thanks to the cracked version :haha:. That would close up the weirdest piracy/drm cycle ever. :har:


I liked the post earlier in the thread about client-server based gameplay where you don't buy SHV, then wait three years for SHVI...rather you buy Silent Hunter and the client applies updates and patches every time you log in (see MMORPGs like WOW and LOTRO). Within reason, that could be a great model (if we're talking about the client checking at the start of game play instead of this persistent online nonsense).

I'm not saying that's preferable, but if gaming companies want to explore that avenue, it's a rapidly maturing business and architecture model and presents some interesting possibilities.

[KL-alfman]

It's funny that some people I have seen in this thread being not bothered with this kind of DRM are americans. The sons of the land of freedom are now ready to provide real time info to a foreign commercial company about their gameplay habits, their saves, the names they choose, wether they machine gun survivors from sunken ships, etc.

I think most of you still do not realize that this is not just about your confort while playing the game, about chances of getting an internet failiure and losing progress, about the chances that UBI goes bankrupt and you lose your game, about UBI requesting money for patches and the server not allwoing you to play an unpatched version, or anything like that.

It's about OUR PRIVACY

And that is something that I value more than any game present or future.

How sad I feel about this all :wah:


everything you state in your post is fully understood and supported by me!
though having a fast and stable connection I'd never allow anyone to screen my PC-statistics secretly.
I haven't pre-ordered yet but obviously never will if and only if this kind of "protection" is deleted. I just ordered a second copy of SH3 and my first of SH4. they will be modded and played off-line.
here are maybe some more infos on UBI's policy in the future:
http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/


Online Services Platform Q&A

Frequent Asked Questions about Ubisoft's Online Services Platform for PC

What is the added value of this platform for PC gamers?
A CD/DVD is not required to play the game. The protected game can be installed as many times and on as many computers as you like! Saved games are also synchronized online so the user can continue playing from where he/she left off from any computer; at work, at a friend's place etc.

How many players can play at the same time (concurrently)?
There is no limit to how many players can play at the same time. For each title, we carefully study the demand and allocate servers accordingly. We will also of course allocate back-up servers in order to be able to respond to fluctuations in demand.

How many computers can I install the game on?
There is no limit to the number of computers on which you can install the game! However you can only play with your individual Ubisoft account on one computer at a time.

Is there an "off-line" option?
No. The added services to the game (unlimited installs, online storage of saved games and the fact that you don’t need the game disc to play) require you to have an online connection while playing the game.

Can I play my game from another computer?
Yes. As long as the game is installed on the PC, you can play from any computer and your Ubisoft account will recognise your last saved position as well as automatically save any updates.

Can I play from an airport or when I'm travelling ?
Anywhere you have an internet access, you can play.

Can I use the Ubisoft account for both single player and multiplayer online?
Yes, using your Ubisoft account , once you are signed in, all aspect of the gameplay are available to you.

I am in a strict environment with lots of firewall rules etc. Can I still play the game?
If you can access the Internet from the computer, you can play the game.

What if I lose my account or my computer crashes?
Customer service is available to help you re-access your account. If you experience a computer crashes, the game will kwill still recognise your license and all synchronizations made before the crash will be stored online.

What if Ubisoft decides not run these online services in the future? Will my game stop working?
Ubisoft is committed to being a forerunner in providing new exciting online service. If any service is stopped, we will create a patch for the game so that the core game play will not be affected.

What will happen if I lose my Internet connection when I play the game?
If you lose your Internet connection the game will pause while it tries to reconnect. If the Internet Connection is unable to resume you can continue the game from where you left off or from the last saved game.

Why do I need to register with a Ubisoft account?
The synchronized saved games are personal, so to access them you need to log in. Even if your computer crashes you will be able to access your saved games with your Ubisoft account and continue your game from another computer. The services tied to your account will work regardless if you purchase the game as a physical or digital copy from any distributor.

Will all my saved games be stored online?
Yes! They will be stored both online and on your PC.

Will customers need to upgrade their Internet connection to broadband speed?
No. We've made sure that the game is playable even with the lowest (A)DSL connections.

Will I need to be online the whole time when I play the game? Including for single player?
Yes. You will need to have an active Internet connection to play the game, for all game modes.

Will this platform use Uniquekeys?
Yes. Uniquekeys are verified throughout this system.

Do any services run when I am not playing?
No. The only service that might be running after you exit the game is the online synchronization of saved games which runs until it is completed. It is not a hidden window, so you can cancel it at any time, and it will finish the synchronization the next time you start the game.

Do you add any monitoring tools to my computer?
No! We respect your privacy and will only access information needed for the new services and game to function. There are no hidden programs or monitoring tools installed.

Do you send information to third parties?
No. We offer the option opt-in to receive news and updates from Ubisoft, but we do not send any nformation to any third parties

Will this affect the performance of my PC?
No. The services that we offer run only when you start the game and there are no background services.

Can I resell my game?
Not at this time.

Can I resell my game along with my Ubisoft account?
Your Ubisoft account features your personal data and cannot be given or sold to anyone.

Do you have to be a member of Uplay to use this service platform?
This system requires you to have a Ubi.com account. A Uplay and a Ubi.com account are the same. You don't need to use Uplay to use this service platform, but if you wish to do so, it's very simple.

Do you plan to implement this system on home consoles?
This system is for PCs only.

What happens if I pre-ordered my game without being aware of the permanent online connection requirement ? Can I get a refund?
Please check with your retailer to find out their return policies.

Will this system be available for every Ubisoft game?
Most upcoming Ubisoft PC games will make use of this system.

How does Ubisoft use my personal information? How can I control which data is actually provided to Ubisoft?
Ubisoft uses information provided by its customers only to ensure our services run properly for an optimal gameplay experience - including the customer service. Ubisoft does not use personal information for any other purposes, unless you have explicitly accepted for us to do so.

What happens if the server crashes on weekends or at night? Will there be 24/7 support?
Yes, Ubisoft provides 24/7 support on servers.

Why is Ubisoft forcing their loyal customers to sign up for a Ubisoft account when they don't want to give their private data and only play single player games?
We hope that customers will feel as we do, that signing up for an account will offer them exceptional gameplay and services that are not available otherwise.




edit: just recognized that there's already a thread about this quote I posted. it may be deleted if moderators feel like ....
sry for the unconvenience

[melin71]

Have i understand it right, you need first to log on to ubisoft, then on steam to play? What fu..moron come up with that. Its ok to login to steam, I use steam every day and like steam. but to forced to log in everywhere to play is just stupid. And why keep the save files online? that I don't get at all.

And need to stay online all the time, it not a dam mmo game I wants to buy.

[jclasper]

Reading that quote makes me wonder why we pc gamers are being singled out It is a fact that ps3 and xbox have ways to play copied games (To which i think is wrong playing copies) they also have net connections so why is it not across the board with Ubisoft that no matter what title you purchase for whatever system then you need to be online to play
Just a thought
Also could it be that games companies would rather we all did our gaming on a console due to the fact that the unit cost of a console game is 10-20% higher than the pc therin making them alot more money cynical i know but just a thought

[Sailor Steve]

Don't have a reliable online connection? Get one. You'll be sunk without one. You need it anyway. Grow up and join the 21st century. It's already ten years old.
My financial situation is so poor that I haven't been able to afford one for the last two years. I'm at this moment posting from the local library. And did you read the post by the guy who spends half his time on a mountain retreat without even a phone?

Thanks for preaching.

[Rosencrantz]

Danji wrote:


i'm not sure if this joke exist in english too. but i'll try to translate a romanian joke. There once was a fox. The fox suddenly felt like eating pancakes, but it (in romanian it's "she" ) had no frying pan. So she went to the bear to ask him for a frying pan. On her way to him ( the bear is considered male so i'll reffer to it as "him" ) she thought : "what if the bear will ask me for some pancakes as thanx for borrowing me the pan ?" . Half way there she though " what if he will take advantage of his size and place in the forest and demand half my pancakes? " . Almost reaching the bear's house she thought "what if he'll take half my pancakes and charge me for the pan too?". Finally reaching the bear's house, she rang the bell, the bear answered, and as soon as the bear opened the door she madly told the bear : " F you and your stupid pan, i don't even want it anymore! ".




Exactly!

Listen, folks, if SH I - IV didn't sell good enough, there never was SHV, right? So, the very basic problem is not that the product doesn't sell, but that UBI just want to make MORE money from it by preventing probably BOTH piracy AND second hand marketing. That's fine, company has it's rights, but with DRM the ordinary, legitimate user is the Sucker of the Game, IMHO.

Greetings,
-RC-

[himlaviz]

If this means that their games will be impossible to pirate I guess they have a win-win situation, sure some who might not have the means to play the games due to no internet connection is a lost sale but on the other hand those who rather want to steal something is forced to buy.

But if/when we find a pirated version with no need for internet connection to play I would say that the publishers has once again slapped true costumers in the face while the pirates can enjoy a "better" version yet again.

[Sailor Steve]

It's funny that some people I have seen in this thread being not bothered with this kind of DRM are americans. The sons of the land of freedom are now ready to provide real time info to a foreign commercial company about their gameplay habits, their saves, the names they choose, wether they machine gun survivors from sunken ships, etc.

I think most of you still do not realize that this is not just about your confort while playing the game, about chances of getting an internet failiure and losing progress, about the chances that UBI goes bankrupt and you lose your game, about UBI requesting money for patches and the server not allwoing you to play an unpatched version, or anything like that.

It's about OUR PRIVACY

And that is something that I value more than any game present or future.

How sad I feel about this all :wah:
And this finally made up my mind for me.

Thanks, Alberto, for explaining this in terms I can understand. I owe you.:sunny:

[vigilante]

Be careful with such statements. However it would be funny if the game is cracked and some people that say they won't buy the game (including me) will eventually buy it thanks to the cracked version :haha:. That would close up the weirdest piracy/drm cycle ever. :har:

Please consider in your country (and mine), just a few gamers buy the games. Piracy it's up & shinning due to people's low incomings and Internet education deficit.
I have the guts to admit: I first installed a cracked copy of SH3, simply because I was not aware of this game and I just wanted to check it out. Next week I've bought a legal copy.
I was at the point of making a pre-apply for SH5, when I saw this topic. Now I'll told you, with the risk of getting my ass banned: I WILL NEVER BUY SILENT HUNTER AGAIN. Not so much due to DRM, but because they HIDE this aspect and let us pay for the product.
By the way, DRM is a trojan, but it's made by a major company, so will never be admitted as spy.

[bratkorv]

WTF ??!! I hate those pesky clients putting my private system at security risk.
Online all the time? There is no way I would pay for that. Even Steam use an offline feature.
Bye bye UBI. Nati ad Infernum evertendum.

[karamazovnew]

Please consider in your country (and mine), just a few gamers buy the games. Piracy it's up & shinning due to people's low incomings and Internet education deficit.
I have the guts to admit: I first installed a cracked copy of SH3, simply because I was not aware of this game and I just wanted to check it out. Next week I've bought a legal copy.
I was at the point of making a pre-apply for SH5, when I saw this topic. Now I'll told you, with the risk of getting my ass banned: I WILL NEVER BUY SILENT HUNTER AGAIN. Not so much due to DRM, but because they HIDE this aspect and let us pay for the product.

Greets from Bucharest. Nice to see Constanta represented here (main port of Romania for those who don't know). I go there every week for studies at UMC, who knows we might've rubbed shoulders without knowing.

They didn't hide the truth, don't be mad at them for this reason.
You won't get banned for saying you won't buy the game, don't worry. Coming from the same country IT-mentality you might understand me much better than people who grew up in the west. Piracy here is a fact of life as a young person just out of university can't expect more than 400 euros per month. The cost of living here is among the biggest in the world. Check some financial surveys if you don't believe me. Food, clothing, electronics, houses, everything here is more expensive than in the UK or US. We simply wouldn't buy a game unless we really like them. That means that either the game has perfect reviews (for example I've just bought Mass Effect and I'm loving it) or we first play cracked versions and decide for ourselves. 99.9% of those games are absolute rubbish and we'd never buy them even if we were swimming in money. We'd just use the money to play WoW.

But these games still make us upgrade PC's and spend a lot of money on them, fueling a decent IT market. If our gov would really crack down the crackers, the IT market would crash inevitably. Since Ubisoft Romania decided to use such a drakonic DRM, it's safe to say that they were "inspired" by the poor sales they get here in their own country. So yeah, you can blame us :shifty:. Permanent Online check ups really work, we really need to buy the game to play. We did it with L2D, we did it with WoW, Modern Combat 1 so yeah, it actually works for multiplayer games. But this type of game content and DRM is new.

I am pissed that Ubisoft spent so much time answering silly questions and have only now revealed the Big Trio (VII's only, till 43, new DRM). I had already saved money for the collector's edition and I actually WANT to PLAY the freakin game. Hard to do when I'm on the move constantly and have to travel overseas for months on end. So no, I won't buy the game, because of the DRM. I don't care about privacy, or piracy I simply won't have internet :haha:. Right now it's the same thing for me if I buy another MMO, for example Star Trek Online. Being a trekkie made things simple for me :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I'll told you, with the risk of getting my ass banned: I WILL NEVER BUY SILENT HUNTER AGAIN.
Saying you will never buy something won't get you into trouble here, though once you've said it you might get people asking why you feel a need for ever posting again on that particular subject.

It's talking freely about cracking games that gets people in trouble.

[Boats]

I find what amounts to a No CD crack for the internet requirement of the game. AND I can still mod it, since the need for modding SH has been the norm since SH2. But I'd have to find that first and then I'd go out and buy the game.

A slice of big brother with every purchase of a game from here on out? Time for me to get a life, as the non-gamers say.:salute:

[bratkorv]

Directly or indirectly related:

http://www.albumoftheday.com/facebook/

"It will soon be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and to maintain up-to-date, complete files, containing even most personal information about the health or personal behavior of the citizen in addition to more customary data. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."
- Zbigniew Brzezinski

[skwasjer]

Hmm, the requirement to be online to play is a very poor choice to say the least. I don't understand why you'd waste a chunk of cash on such a system when:
a) it will lose you more customers to piracy
b) the cash could be spent on the game itself (including server costs)
c) unstable internet connections, server issues, etc. can cause legitimate customers to become highly annoyed over time (and when SH6 is released they will be part of a))
d) pirates will overcome any protection scheme in days

All points are 'proven' in the past with other titles, so why try again... :rotfl2:

It's not piracy that kills the PC-game... :nope:

[Rosencrantz]

Sailor Steve wrote:


It's talking freely about cracking games that gets people in trouble.



I think this time forum have to loose the rules a bit. Otherwise half of the members will be in brick sooner or later. It's difficult to talk about DRM without talking about cracking games at the same time. And no good progress can't be made without open discussion, I believe.


Greetings,
-RC-

[U-SERB]

DRM is more than good reason to boycott new SH5... I really hope that SH5 team will have ears to hear what we, hard core fans of SH games thinks about that silly idea... If they don't want to hear us, they will be the only lossers in the future... Sorry for that, but they must teach the lesson!!!

[simsurfer]

I find what amounts to a No CD crack for the internet requirement of the game. AND I can still mod it, since the need for modding SH has been the norm since SH2. But I'd have to find that first and then I'd go out and buy the game.

A slice of big brother with every purchase of a game from here on out? Time for me to get a life, as the non-gamers say.:salute:

Not so fast, if you have to stay connected to the internet while playing the game, how do you suppose you get updates for the game, by downloading them to a file on your HDD? No, there server will d/l it for you when you connect. No connect, no updates.

[GREY WOLF 3]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1247042#post1247042)
Don't have a reliable online connection? Get one. You'll be sunk without one. You need it anyway. Grow up and join the 21st century. It's already ten years old.

:har::har::har: you are the one to grow up,why buy a game then have to rent it:zzz::zzz::zzz:.
Some people cannot aford it.What happens to them, in your words sod them'

[trenken]

Not so fast, if you have to stay connected to the internet while playing the game, how do you suppose you get updates for the game, by downloading them to a file on your HDD? No, there server will d/l it for you when you connect. No connect, no updates.

It doesnt work like that. Guild Wars uses this same system, and it works really great. When there's an update, there's a prompt telling you to restart the game (which you do at your convenience), it installs the updated data to you computer, which is still where the game actually resides.

The server is only for tracking, serving updates to you, and your progress in the game. People dont seem to understand this.

And lol @ anyone complaining about privacy. Privacy for what, what you're doing in a VIDEOGAME? Who cares... the positives of DRM far outweight whatever that privacy complaint is all about.

[pythos]

I really, really hope, Ubi sees this thread, and possible other threads concerning this and takes it as a petition against having this "Big Brother" program from being part of SH5

Looking at this thread I would say UBI just shot themselves in both feet.

This is an intrusive program and I am amazed at the number of Americans that are just rolling over.

What was that phrase Ben Franklin said? I urge you to find what he said about giving up privacy for security, and deserving neither.

This was a stupid move on the part of UBI.

I don't think the devs had a hand in this.

[simsurfer]

Sailor Steve wrote:




I think this time forum have to loose the rules a bit. Otherwise half of the members will be in brick sooner or later. It's difficult to talk about DRM without talking about cracking games at the same time. And no good progress can't be made without open discussion, I believe.


Greetings,
-RC-

Well said.

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

there totaly killing the pc gaming world as a enjoyment on my part..

it's just like all thing's in life when they try and put barrier's in place to stop criminal's, it ends up hurting us more (the loyal gamer).

i realy hate all this online buy,download,play that is all over the place...prime example being steam!

i take enjoyment in collecting certain title's in the cases. or phyisical shipment as the sites put it....as i saw one chap said in this forum, what happen when the popularity drops below a level where it becomes to costly to run server's? do you realy think they'll keep pumping out cash so a hand full of people can play a game? no i think not..

.WE need the freedom to buy the game, and be able to play it when ever and where ever we want....i mean come on! it's bad enough in most cases to get the patch's/support to get the game to run...and that's not even thinking of the multiplayer side of things..

i dont blame the games industry in trying to protect there products, but they could do it in much better way's...

this is such an important topic that should be wide spread, or pc gaming is gona die out.

[trenken]

I really, really hope, Ubi sees this thread, and possible other threads concerning this and takes it as a petition against having this "Big Brother" program from being part of SH5

Looking at this thread I would say UBI just shot themselves in both feet.

This is an intrusive program and I am amazed at the number of Americans that are just rolling over.

What was that phrase Ben Franklin said? I urge you to find what he said about giving up privacy for security, and deserving neither.

This was a stupid move on the part of UBI.

I don't think the devs had a hand in this.

There's only 40k users on this site, many of which are inactive. We arent exactly going to get them to delay this game and change the way the entire save system is structured.

Let it go, dont buy the game, noone cares. The game is built, it comes out in march, it uses DRM. Crying about it on a message board is not going to get them to rebuild aspects of this game.

If you read about DRM, many aspects of a game must be tied into it for things to work properly. The server tracks all your stats and what not, you dont just flip a switch and say hey, "I want this game to now save to the HD instead!". It so much more complex than people that dont know anything about it realize.

[simsurfer]

It doesnt work like that. Guild Wars uses this same system, and it works really great. When there's an update, there's a prompt telling you to restart the game (which you do at your convenience), it installs the updated data to you computer, which is still where the game actually resides.

The server is only for tracking, serving updates to you, and your progress in the game. People dont seem to understand this.

And lol @ anyone complaining about privacy. Privacy for what, what you're doing in a VIDEOGAME? Who cares... the positives of DRM far outweight whatever that privacy complaint is all about.

Positives of DRM...:haha:
DRM only serves the interests of the companies that issues the game. I see that there are no positives to the person buying the game, only a whole lot of restrictions.

[Aleksandar the Great]

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu UBI!!!:down:

[trenken]

Positives of DRM...:haha:
DRM only serves the interests of the companies that issues the game. I see that there are no positives to the person buying the game, only a whole lot of restrictions.

Streaming updates, protected game saves, stat tracking, a new avenue to implement new games modes, are not advantages?

Because I get all that qith guild wars and its pretty fantastic actually. Why someone that has not played a game that uses it would actually try to trash it is beyond my understanding.

[simsurfer]

Streaming updates, protected game saves, stat tracking, a new avenue to implement new games modes, are not advantages?

Not when I can do that now right on my own hard drive with or without being connected to the internet, reconfiguring my firewall, having to worry what big brother is or is not collecting, not being able for some reason to connect to there servers due to a downed connection or a server.

No I see no advantage.

[Brag]

The DRM concept of "You pay, I keep" is phylosophically untenable. :nope:

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

I wouldve rather like to see something like having to register to UBI rather than DRM with internet connection..

i miss the good old day's of just having to put a code in.:nope:

one other prime example is Company of heroe's and Empire total war. via steam.

steam steam steam !! its all steams fualt haha :har:

only joking.

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

The DRM concept of "You pay, I keep" is phylosophically untenable. :nope:


spot on there....:yeah:

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

god, it would be easier if they made the registration of a game more like registering your car...:arrgh!:

[trenken]

Not when I can do that now right on my own hard drive with or without being connected to the internet, reconfiguring my firewall, having to worry what big brother is or is not collecting, not being able for some reason to connect to there servers due to a downed connection or a server.

No I see no advantage.

Please list for me the games you've played that use DRM.

[sidslotm]

Now it has been officially confirmed by an Ubisoft employee in the German SH5 forum, SH5 will contain exactly this new protection:

Well thats it for me, it's over honey, it ain't going any further.

Maybe SH4 will be re-examined, rebuilt to fore fill it's intended glory by the wonderous modders who dive deeper than allowed by Ubi safety rules.

In truth I expect that even SH5 will fall way short and will require a good deal of modding. This may seem cruel to Ubi soft, I know they do first rate work, I tried recently to animate two little figures for a space ship, it's so difficult. It's, I'm not prepared for another DVD drive change just for this, SH3 caused enough stress for me. But, I will wait and see it this is true, I hope it's not

SLOT

[ETR3(SS)]

And lol @ anyone complaining about privacy. Privacy for what, what you're doing in a VIDEOGAME? Who cares... the positives of DRM far outweight whatever that privacy complaint is all about. Well if that's how you feel about privacy, would you mind sharing your name, address, date of birth, sexual orientation, any major or minor health issues. Do you go to any adult sites? If so which ones? Privacy is a laughable matter for you so surely you would have no quarrel with sharing this information with us.

[vigilante]

Streaming updates, protected game saves, stat tracking, a new avenue to implement new games modes, are not advantages?

Because I get all that qith guild wars and its pretty fantastic actually. Why someone that has not played a game that uses it would actually try to trash it is beyond my understanding.

Man, with all respect, this is bull****. Political correctly bla-bla with no significance in REALITY. Updates are not coming every day, but very rarely and can be applied manually. If I WANT to apply it.
On the other hand, regarding your previous post, you're right - the game will be released as they want it, they don't care about our opinion.
SH5 will came out with DRM. My question is: as Ubisoft never recognise they have implemented DRM in SH5, what will happen with no-Internet access clients that already payed for SH5? The product is not usable, it's not working at all for these clients. Those people were not aware of that, because Ubisoft never tell them about DRM on SH5. And we're talking about many, many thousands. Think about sailors per instance that use to buy this game to have fun on the long days and nights.
And yes, privacy it's an issue on DRM, just because they log your IP aka location aka address aka NAME. Without permission.

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

Well if that's how you feel about privacy, would you mind sharing your name, address, date of birth, sexual orientation, any major or minor health issues. Do you go to any adult sites? If so which ones? Privacy is a laughable matter for you so surely you would have no quarrel with sharing this information with us.


and put that in yer pipe n smoke it ! ahhahaha:woot:

[Rosencrantz]

Trenken wrote:


There's only 40k users on this site, many of which are inactive. We arent exactly going to get them to delay this game and change the way the entire save system is structured.




Hello, Trenken!

I think we "haven't met" before. As you have joined in 2006, I assume you were not here when SH III was released and so you don't know the story about non-dynamic campaign of that version. But it was that UBI tried to bring the sim (III) in without the dynamic campaign, just like with SH II. However, all hell loose out within the community, and finally UBI delayed the release with months to get real dynamic campaign in. So we are not that much without any teeths, I think.


Greetings,
-RC-

[trenken]

Well if that's how you feel about privacy, would you mind sharing your name, address, date of birth, sexual orientation, any major or minor health issues. Do you go to any adult sites? If so which ones? Privacy is a laughable matter for you so surely you would have no quarrel with sharing this information with us.

You're talking about your game information, I think thats slightly different than my personal info. I dont care who knows what about what I do in a game, and thats how it should be. The day I start caring about that crap ill just find another hobby.

[Capt. Morgan]

Ummm. So does this mean there will be a GWX 4.0 for SH-III?
oh-please, oh-please, oh please.:D

GWX 4.0 was for SH4 ..... NOT SH3.:up:

DOH! SHIV then.

[vigilante]

Greets from Bucharest. Nice to see Constanta represented here (main port of Romania for those who don't know). I go there every week for studies at UMC, who knows we might've rubbed shoulders without knowing.

They didn't hide the truth, don't be mad at them for this reason.
You won't get banned for saying you won't buy the game, don't worry. Coming from the same country IT-mentality you might understand me much better than people who grew up in the west. Piracy here is a fact of life as a young person just out of university can't expect more than 400 euros per month. The cost of living here is among the biggest in the world. Check some financial surveys if you don't believe me. Food, clothing, electronics, houses, everything here is more expensive than in the UK or US. We simply wouldn't buy a game unless we really like them. That means that either the game has perfect reviews (for example I've just bought Mass Effect and I'm loving it) or we first play cracked versions and decide for ourselves. 99.9% of those games are absolute rubbish and we'd never buy them even if we were swimming in money. We'd just use the money to play WoW.

But these games still make us upgrade PC's and spend a lot of money on them, fueling a decent IT market. If our gov would really crack down the crackers, the IT market would crash inevitably. Since Ubisoft Romania decided to use such a drakonic DRM, it's safe to say that they were "inspired" by the poor sales they get here in their own country. So yeah, you can blame us :shifty:. Permanent Online check ups really work, we really need to buy the game to play. We did it with L2D, we did it with WoW, Modern Combat 1 so yeah, it actually works for multiplayer games. But this type of game content and DRM is new.

I am pissed that Ubisoft spent so much time answering silly questions and have only now revealed the Big Trio (VII's only, till 43, new DRM). I had already saved money for the collector's edition and I actually WANT to PLAY the freakin game. Hard to do when I'm on the move constantly and have to travel overseas for months on end. So no, I won't buy the game, because of the DRM. I don't care about privacy, or piracy I simply won't have internet :haha:. Right now it's the same thing for me if I buy another MMO, for example Star Trek Online. Being a trekkie made things simple for me :haha:

Glad to meet you mate. Indeed, for those who are not aware, Constanta had a few U-boots based here in the mid of the WWII. And its own 3 Romanian subs.
Funny enouch, you, from Bucharest, decided for UMC (Civil Naval Academy), and myself, from Constanta chose legal domain and studied on Bucharest.:o
Indeed, I guess many sailors bought SH3, games and movies are their only entertainment on the long days (and night) on the sea. Will Ubisoft pay for their access to satellite Internet now?...

[Ishigami]

Nice try UbiSoft.
Should they implement it in SH5 I will wait for cracked copy and download that one instead of buying it.
If you think it can’t be cracked than you are blond and have blue eyes.

To sum it up: Get rid of it and I may purchase it like I did with SH3 and 4 but trying to screw me won’t get them my money that’s for sure.

[tinitoon]

Imagine: Ubisoft sells SHV in such a low number because of this stupid DRM idea, they go bankrott and have to shut down their servers...

...quite ironic for those who are amongst the buyers!

[Oberleutnant nederlander]

Ummm. So does this mean there will be a GWX 4.0 for SH-III?
oh-please, oh-please, oh please.:D

GWX 4.0 was for SH4 ..... NOT SH3.:up:

[Learjetcap]

I'm going to pass for sure. That does not bother me, it's their company they can do what they want and so can I (not buy it). What does bother me are the ignorant prejudiced comments by many that assume because I built my home on 23 acres of mind-blowingly beautiful land 35 miles outside of St. Louis I am a hick and out of touch because I rely on sprint 3g (only option). The "double wide", "join the 21st century" comments are very shallow minded and stupid. I would gladly compare bank accounts, homes, cars, wives, etc with anyone here. -vent over

[simsurfer]

Please list for me the games you've played that use DRM.

I think it was called Band of Brothers? Bought it several years ago and now when you load the thing up it goes through 20+ updates with reboots required, you cant even play the game anymore unless you update the damm thing, needless to say but I threw the game out. Shame to cause it was a cool game when it first came out.

[karamazovnew]

Directly or indirectly related:

http://www.albumoftheday.com/facebook/

"It will soon be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and to maintain up-to-date, complete files, containing even most personal information about the health or personal behavior of the citizen in addition to more customary data. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."
- Zbigniew Brzezinski

That wake me up a bit. I tried deleting my account, no dice. You can only deactivate it... interesting.... And it would explain the amount of spam I've been receiving lately although all my details were reserved to "friends" and I had none... very very interesting.

[simsurfer]

The "double wide", "join the 21st century" comments are very shallow minded and stupid.

And I agree, very dumb comments. Must be an age thing :down:

[tater]

This encourages piracy/hacking.

99.9999% of Il-2 owners use the hacked exe file, and have for years—even if they bought it. I bought every installment, and I still have the "no-CD" hack exe (which took someone minutes to get out to the world, lol).

If they wish to force online, then make the damn thing subscriptive, with frequent updates.

As others have said, streaming updates kills modding dead.

The plus side is that this decision effectively sinks u-boats, which is my only interest in that particular subject matter. If SH5 were fleet boats I'd be pretty POed about now.

[theluckyone17]

This: http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=62 should list the business office contact numbers for Ubisoft across the world.

It may not do a thing, but I intend to contact Ubisoft and verbally express my displeasure. I'll also note that they won't see a dime from me for SH5 (or any of their other products... I was looking forward to Storm of War from Maddox & crew) until/if the DRM's removed.

[karamazovnew]

This: http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/index.php?p=62 should list the business office contact numbers for Ubisoft across the world.

It may not do a thing, but I intend to contact Ubisoft and verbally express my displeasure. I'll also note that they won't see a dime from me for SH5 (or any of their other products... I was looking forward to Storm of War from Maddox & crew) until/if the DRM's removed.

OMFG... SoW... let's hurry and spam Oleg about this DRM thing. I'd really hate loosing that one. I plan to get an HMD next year and a good stick just to play that game. Nice part about a ship rocking in 10 meter waves is that you feel you're flying :D

[KG_Jag]

Now it has been officially confirmed by an Ubisoft employee in the German SH5 forum, SH5 will contain exactly this new protection:

- you need an Ubisoft online account to activate SH5
- Save games be stored online on Ubisoft server
- PC must be throughout the playing session connected to the internet

If so, they can cross all sales from me off their list.

[simsurfer]

http://www.facebook.com/silent.hunter.ubi?v=wall

Write anything about the game that appears negative or questions the use of DRM and ou can actually watch your post getting deleted. Ubi must have a whole department monitoring there Facebook page.:down:

[sea snake]

im a us resident. will i need to be connected to the internet everytime i want to play? like some of the other players , i travel and play offline alot. thanks for the answer before given.

[karamazovnew]

im a us resident. will i need to be connected to the internet everytime i want to play? like some of the other players , i travel and play offline alot. thanks for the answer before given.

Yes, the instant the net connection cuts off, the game pauses and waits for your connection to come back on. Happy flyin....:shucks:

EDIT: and not just SH5, all future Ubi products will probably have this "feature"

[ETR3(SS)]

Looks like they got rid of Carotio's discussion as well. :nope:

[zulus]

Yes, the instant the net connection cuts off, the game pauses and waits for your connection to come back on. Happy flyin....:shucks:

EDIT: and not just SH5, all future Ubi products will probably have this &quot;feature&quot;

So you think this is an option UBI should be proud of ? Btw any ideas who owns ubisucks.com domain ? :D

[Elder-Pirate]

UBI is just trying to get rid of all the cyber thieves/pirates and I don't really blame them. But what I do blame them for is that they have turned into the biggest theft of all!

[zulus]

UBI is just trying to get rid of all the cyber thieves/pirates and I don't really blame them. But what I do blame them for is that they have turned into the biggest theft of all!

Just imagine, you're hunting the convoy and when you're about to shoot the first torpedo a window pops in and says: "Your session limit has been expired, please insert coin to continue" LOL!

[trenken]

im a us resident. will i need to be connected to the internet everytime i want to play? like some of the other players , i travel and play offline alot. thanks for the answer before given.

You have to be connected all the time. So yeah it would be an issue for you. But there are ways to make it work if you really need to. If you're using a laptop well you could always get those satellite cards, so you have access to the net all the time.

It's really the only downside of DRM. You need to log into the server to play. Everything else about it is good for the dev's and good for us. Dont listen to these people that have never played a game that uses it. Ive yet to have 1 bad experience on any games that I play that use DRM.

[simsurfer]

Everything else about it is good for the dev's and good for us. Dont listen to these people ...

You are a funny guy, thanks for the laugh!

Its obvious you work for Ubi$oft or have a interest in it somehow.

[trenken]

You are a funny guy, thanks for the laugh!

Its obvious you work for Ubi$oft or have a interest in it somehow.

No I dont, I dont care about them, but ive played a good handful of games that use DRM and it works just fine. Sure it kills the modding, but it also allows them to make expansions and charge for them, which is just fine by me. That means we may actually see some more sub sim games, instead of this very unpopular genre dying off.

Id rather get some more games than some mods to be honest. Im all for them making as much money as they can because that results in more games for us.

[tater]

"Sure it kills the modding"

LOL.

Neither SH3 nor SH4 were playable as anything but arcade games out of the box. So this in effect kills SH5 as a sub SIM in your own words.

That's the only problem... that's enough of a problem for me.

[zulus]

No I dont, I dont care about them, but ive played a good handful of games that use DRM and it works just fine. Sure it kills the modding, but it also allows them to make expansions and charge for them, which is just fine by me. That means we may actually see some more sub sim games, instead of this very unpopular genre dying off.

Id rather get some more games than some mods to be honest. Im all for them making as much money as they can because that results in more games for us.

Sigh... No Comments... Leaving already ?

[trenken]

"Sure it kills the modding"

LOL.

Neither SH3 nor SH4 were playable as anything but arcade games out of the box. So this in effect kills SH5 as a sub SIM in your own words.

That's the only problem... that's enough of a problem for me.

No, it allows them to create their own expansions and actually try to turn a decent profit on this franchise. When they can make more money, thats good for us too you know. Thats means we get more games.

None of us knows if this would have been the end of the road for SH, its certainly always possible in a genre like this. But if they can put a great expansion out, get a bunch of us to buy it, well that certainly helps raise the chances for SH6. Or if SH6 was going to happen either way, then it gives them some more $$ to dump into it. That works for me.

Thats how I look at things. I dont think about things in just the short term all the time, all negative about everything, hanging on to the past, only worried about myself. I actually want them to make as much money as possible, and ill give some of mine to them if I feel the expansions are good enough. Many people will regardless. You dont have to buy SH5 if you dont want.

[Thomen]

No I dont, I dont care about them, but ive played a good handful of games that use DRM and it works just fine. Sure it kills the modding, but it also allows them to make expansions and charge for them, which is just fine by me. That means we may actually see some more sub sim games, instead of this very unpopular genre dying off.

Id rather get some more games than some mods to be honest. Im all for them making as much money as they can because that results in more games for us.

Wow.. you are really something.

Just to make it clear, you propose, an unstable, pretty pricey and relatively slow satellite connection as solution for the connection problems detailed in one of the posts above? :shifty:

You keep mentioning that, you have played games that have a DRM like the one Ubi wants to use.. which are those exactly?

[MLF]

I think I will just wait until SH5 is released. I will then look at this site during the few times I am on line, see what peoples views are and then make a decision. I made 2 mistakes when I bought SH4 and then its add-on without first consulting the views of people here.

I do not see this is as just piracy protection but also as a marketing/statistic gathering exercise - I might be wrong, but usually when you have to connect to the Internet to activate something you are required to enter a whole lot of stuff about yourself - don't know, we'll see. It'll most likely be in the bargain basket after a year anyhow.

Meantime back to SH3:rock:

[ParaB]

Trenken, your reasoning is so naive that I'm beginning to wonder if you're some kind of viral marketing stunt.

:hmmm:

[trenken]

Wow.. you are really something.

Just to make it clear, you propose, an unstable, pretty pricey and relatively slow satellite connection as solution for the connection problems detailed in one of the posts above? :shifty:

You keep mention, that you have played games that have a DRM like the one Ubi wants to use.. which are those exactly?

Guild Wars, Spore, Fallout 3 (single player only by the way), just bought MAss Effect 2 (also single player only).

Works great in all of them. A slow satellite connection make no difference with a single player only DRM game, because game data from other player is not being streamed to you, its only for stat tracking, game updates and saves.

[Rosencrantz]

And why this topic is not sticky anymore?

Things are getting too hot (which might be, of course, bad for future sell figures) or what..?


-RC-

[trenken]

Trenken, your reasoning is so naive that I'm beginning to wonder if you're some kind of viral marketing stunt.

:hmmm:

Please list the games you've played that uses DRM, and please inform me of any bad experiences you've had. I've played 4 games that use it, not a single issue to report.

[tater]

No, it allows them to create their own expansions and actually try to turn a decent profit on this franchise. When they can make more money, thats good for us too you know. Thats means we get more games.

None of us knows if this would have been the end of the road for SH, its certainly always possible in a genre like this. But if they can put a great expansion out, get a bunch of us to buy it, well that certainly helps raise the chances for SH6. Or if SH6 was going to happen either way, then it gives them some more $$ to dump into it. That works for me.

Thats how I look at things. I dont think about things in just the short term all the time, all negative about everything, hanging on to the past, only worried about myself. I actually want them to make as much money as possible, and ill give some of mine to them if I feel the expansions are good enough. Many people will regardless. You dont have to buy SH5 if you dont want.

I don't begrudge them profit, before this DRM nonsense I would have bought this AND NEVER PLAYED IT just to give some money to the devs.

Regardless, they can make add-ons, fine. The trouble is that they have a history of making ZERO games or add-ons that are even remotely accurate historically. The SH4 stock campaign is 100% rubbish. Not worth playing. It is my understanding that SH3 was no better in this regard. So that means for those of us that wish a simulation are simply SOL without mods.

So what you are saying is that this is a great idea as long as the customer wants an arcade game experience, not a sub-sim. You may be right, but in this forum, I think you'll find yourself vastly outnumbered.

Or are you making some point I'm missing?

[bigboywooly]

Spore was the biggest pirated game of 08 BECAUSE of DRM
Go figure
And you havent had much dealings with the SH series if you think no mods will mean UBI will step up and release addons

Customer support ends real quick after release even if bugs still present
Which is why modding so important on these games

[Thomen]

Guild Wars, Spore, Fallout 3 (single player only by the way), just bought MAss Effect 2 (also single player only).

Works great in all of them. A slow satellite connection make no difference with a single player only DRM game, because game data from other player is not being streamed to you, its only for stat tracking, game updates and saves.

GW is a MMO. Care to share with us how you can enable the single player mode so that you can play without outside interference.

The slow, unstable and not always avalaible satellite connection does makes a different, if you can not connect to the satellite in the first place through external influences.

Mass Effect 2 DRM:

The boxed/retail PC version of Mass Effect 2 will use only a basic disk check and it will not require online authentication.

Fallout 3 DRM:

"We do NOT limit the number of installs. We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game"

Spore DRM:

A few things we wanted you to know:

We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.
We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.
You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
You can play offline.




Where exactly was the DRM that requires a constant internet connection again?

[Kefru]

When I found out about the game ending in May 1943 and there only being one U-boat I was annoyed but quickly got over it. I have been playing since SH2 and was determined to make the best of it and assumed that there would be DLC or Mods to add the extra content.

But this new Online DRM has completely ruined the game and I have not even played it yet. I understand that Ubi has to protect its self against piracy but this is too much. Why punish gamers in this way, it will not bother the pirates who will crack the game within a few days and avoid the online rubbish.

My only hope is that Ubisoft will read the backlash on this and the official forums and the Assassins Creed forums and reconsider what I can only see as a complete disaster.

This DRM has all the disadvantages of STEAM and none of the benefits.

I can imagine the complete chaos on the 4th March when thousands of gamers attempt to play SHV for the first time, I will not be one of them.

[Rosencrantz]

Tater wrote:


The trouble is that they have a history of making ZERO games or add-ons that are even remotely accurate historically. The SH4 stock campaign is 100% rubbish. Not worth playing. It is my understanding that SH3 was no better in this regard. So that means for those of us that wish a simulation are simply SOL without mods.




Exactly! :yep:

It's bad UBI is closing modders out. Because, what happened to III and IV without the mods? A sudden death?


-RC-

[karamazovnew]

Guild Wars, Spore, Fallout 3 (single player only by the way), just bought MAss Effect 2 (also single player only).

Works great in all of them. A slow satellite connection make no difference with a single player only DRM game, because game data from other player is not being streamed to you, its only for stat tracking, game updates and saves.

Fallout 3:

"We do NOT limit the number of installs. We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game," reads a Bethesda blog post about the DRM.

"We do not install any other programs and we don't have anything that runs in the background while you're playing the game."

Mass Effect 2:

Digital Rights Management (DRM) - The boxed/retail PC version of Mass Effect 2 will use only a basic disk check and it will not require online authentication. This is the same method as Dragon Age: Origins. Digital versions will use the retailers protection system.

Spore:

A few things we wanted you to know:
We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.
We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.
You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
You can play offline.

Guild Wars:

It's a bloody MMORPG!!!!


So really now... stop talking nonsense....


EDIT: roflamo... 10 seconds too late :), You beat me Thomen.

[trenken]

I don't begrudge them profit, before this DRM nonsense I would have bought this AND NEVER PLAYED IT just to give some money to the devs.

Regardless, they can make add-ons, fine. The trouble is that they have a history of making ZERO games or add-ons that are even remotely accurate historically. The SH4 stock campaign is 100% rubbish. Not worth playing. It is my understanding that SH3 was no better in this regard. So that means for those of us that wish a simulation are simply SOL without mods.

So what you are saying is that this is a great idea as long as the customer wants an arcade game experience, not a sub-sim. You may be right, but in this forum, I think you'll find yourself vastly outnumbered.

Or are you making some point I'm missing?

Here's what im saying. We can all agree that sub sims arent exactly hugely popular correct? Well what does that mean? That their profit on these games must be fairly low, its certainly not high.

To support a game, build a great campaign, release updates and expansions, etc...you need money to get that done. Look at Halo as just 1 example, its a money making machine, and it receives constant patches, new maps, expansions, etc... all these popular games do these days.

DRM is a way for them to control what can be done with the game, which allows them to put out expansions and charge for them, release updates more easily... its done nothing but work out fine for every games ive played.

What else does it do? Allows them to release their own dev tools to the community through the server which they could charge for, such as was done with Oblivion, another DRM game, this was done with Halo as well with The Forge, although it was free in that, shipped with it.

There are plenty of upsides to DRM, you're just not willing to see them for the simple fact that its different, and people hate change. Youll see soon enough it will all be fine.

[Greg Wak]

I would be 100% for this if it stopped all piracy cold dead. But as far as I know, nothing has done that. Even Wow apparently has fake servers you can play for free, at least I have read that in other DRM threads. Was ROF pirated at all? I have no idea. So once again this will inconvienence legitimate owners and do very little for stopping piracy. I wish they could find another answer. SH3 became unusable for me as starforce would not work with Vista 64. I understand I could buy a new version without it but just the idea of having to buy it twice infuriates me. UBI has said if they want to take down the servers in the future they will release a patch so you can play offline. I have been told that that means pirates will find a way to emulate that patch now. So the DRM will not even do what it's supposed to do, stop piracy.

[Thomen]

EDIT: roflamo... 10 seconds too late :), You beat me Thomen.

:yeah:
:salute:

[trynnallen]

Looks like I get to keep my $60. Might have spent it for a game that didn't require full time connections, but for this. Nope. Looks like SHIV and I will be sinking ships until Microsoft screws up and decides to change a DirectX format.

[Rosencrantz]

Dear Trenken,

and what about mods? Without mods there was no continuous SH brand, I bet. Why are you so keen on DRM? Why?


-RC-

[badkarma]

Yes, listen to Trenken.
He may not even know that his games don't have this type of constantly connected DRM (nice work Thomen and karamazovnew) but he is an expert on all these matters :yeah:

[trenken]

Dear Trenken,

and what about mods? Without mods there was no continuous SH brand, I bet. Why are you so keen on DRM? Why?


-RC-

Because I have over 2000 total hours logged on 3 games that use it, and it works great, thats why. How many hours do you have logged on it hmmm?

I already said im well aware it kills the modding community, but if it lets me get more SH games, maybe a dev tool I can buy to make my own stuff, maybe an expansion or 2, ill take it.

[Thomen]

Because I have over 2000 total hours logged on 3 games that use it, and it works great, thats why. How many hours do you have logged on it hmmm?

I already said im well aware it kills the modding community, but if it lets me get more SH games, maybe a dev tool I can buy to make my own stuff, maybe an expansion or 2, ill take it.

Eh.. no you don't.
There are different DRM schemes, and none of the games that you listed uses one that is similar to Ubi's.

[karamazovnew]

Guys, chill out, the mods will be in. There might be a few issues with Save file formats that won't allow us to mod in other Uboats, but only if Ubi are really mean and implement a check-up system... SH3 Commander will also be completely out of the picture. You won't have mods however if 90% of the modders don't buy the game because of the DRM.

Now Trenken, to quote some other posts, we don't really want a sub game... we want a sub sim. We're a niche market and it's only appeal is the sim part. We have no doubt that SH5 will be a GAME just like SH3 and SH4. It's the community that managed to turn them into sims. If the community stops it's support for SH5, game over.... You clearly missed the point on DRM, this is completely unheard of so far and it's simply stupid. There is a game that does work like this: Rise of Flight. It's the perfect example of a good sim gone sour. If they let us play SP for free, many more would buy the game and play MP, buy their silly DLC planes and so on. As it is, this concept of DRM is a graveyard. Ubisoft is walking straight into the greatest blunder ever. EVER.

[trenken]

""We do NOT limit the number of installs. We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game""

Lol @ the guy that posted this, because its when you look at the bold right there, that confirms exactly what happens when I launch FO3. If I pull that little internet cable out of my computer, I get a connection error when I try to launch the game.

Weird, right? Works just dandy as long as I keep that plugged in.

[Thomen]

Guys, chill out, the mods will be in. There might be a few issues with Save file formats that won't allow us to mod in other Uboats, but only if Ubi are really mean and implement a check-up system... SH3 Commander will also be completely out of the picture. You won't have mods however if 90% of the modders don't buy the game because of the DRM.

Now Trenken, to quote some other posts, we don't really want a sub game... we want a sub sim. We're a niche market and its only appeal is the sim part. We have no doubt that SH5 will be a GAME just like SH3 and SH4. It's the community that managed to turn them into sims. If the community stops it's support for SH5, game over.... You clearly missed the point on DRM, this is completely unheard of so far and it's simply stupid. There is a game that does work like this: Rise of Flight. It's the perfect example of a good sim gone sour. If they let us play SP for free, many more would buy the game and play MP, buy their silly DLC planes and so on. As it is, this concept of DRM is a graveyard. Ubisoft is walking straight into the greatest blunder ever. EVER.

^ This.
:salute:

[trenken]

Eh.. no you don't.
There are different DRM schemes, and none of the games that you listed uses one that is similar to Ubi's.

Go fire up Fallout 3 without an internet connection, smart guy. Tell me how that works out for you.

[karamazovnew]

With the original CD IN?! Works bloody great for me.
WIth the CD OUT? it tells me to put in the CD. Oh wait... maybe you have the online version... heck, if you have such a good net, yeah, you can afford a DRM like this.

[Thomen]

""We do NOT limit the number of installs. We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game""

Lol @ the guy that posted this, because its when you look at the bold right there, that confirms exactly what happens when I launch FO3. If I pull that little internet cable out of my computer, I get a connection error when I try to launch the game.

Weird, right? Works just dandy as long as I keep that plugged in.

I just can not resist..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/cali_dude45/Facepalm1.jpg

[Thomen]

Go fire up Fallout 3 without an internet connection, smart guy. Tell me how that works out for you.

Different DRM scheme. It does not require a constant connection to the server. Nice try, though.

[karamazovnew]

Thomen, EPIC!

[trenken]

Have to just quote this again for that guy so he can look even worse.

"We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game"

If I try and launch FO3 right now with no internet connection, game will not run. Same deal with SH5.

[Sailor Steve]

Go fire up Fallout 3 without an internet connection, smart guy. Tell me how that works out for you.
I can't. I don't have internet on my computer. I don't want to play a Massive-Multi-Mish-Mash-Online either.

Why can't I just buy a game and play it on my computer, at my leisure?

[tater]

Here's what im saying. We can all agree that sub sims arent exactly hugely popular correct? Well what does that mean? That their profit on these games must be fairly low, its certainly not high.

To support a game, build a great campaign, release updates and expansions, etc...you need money to get that done. Look at Halo as just 1 example, its a money making machine, and it receives constant patches, new maps, expansions, etc... all these popular games do these days.

What else does it do? Allows them to release their own dev tools to the community through the server which they could charge for, such as was done with Oblivion, another DRM game, this was done with Halo as well with The Forge, although it was free in that, shipped with it.

There are plenty of upsides to DRM, you're just not willing to see them for the simple fact that its different, and people hate change. Youll see soon enough it will all be fine.

This scheme kills play for many (halting when connection drops), and entirely kills modding since you can't play with a mod installed then have the game DL a patch and blow itself (and the mod) up.

Since modding is the ONLY WAY WE'LL EVER SEE REALISTIC CONTENT, this scheme is incompatible with the desire to play a realistic game EVER.

So again, you want an arcade game, I get it, but you will never see a realistic game under this nonsense. Not ever, since they either lack the resources or the desire to make one (the SH4 campaign was clearly a cut and paste job with zero research or attention to detail, so I assume it's the former, not the latter).



DRM is a way for them to control what can be done with the game, which allows them to put out expansions and charge for them, release updates more easily... its done nothing but work out fine for every games ive played.

Except you listed games that use nothing at all like this ubi scheme.

[bigboywooly]

Have to just quote this again for that guy so he can look even worse.

"We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game"

If I try and launch FO3 right now with no internet connection, game will not run. Same deal with SH5.

Not quite
With FO3 you can cut connection and drive off merrily playing
With SH5 you have to stay connected

Not the same then

[KL-alfman]

I can't. I don't have internet on my computer. I don't want to play a Massive-Multi-Mish-Mash-Online either.

Why can't I just buy a game and play it on my computer, at my leisure?


hmm, then I'm afraid to mention that you cannot take part in DRM's benefits! :D

[trenken]

I can't. I don't have internet on my computer. I don't want to play a Massive-Multi-Mish-Mash-Online either.

Why can't I just buy a game and play it on my computer, at my leisure?

Because, then you get people creating their own content and they dont see any money out of it. Its just the way it is, people forget that these are businesses, they need money to survive.

We're all adults here, you cant see things from their perspective as well? With DRM, it kills modding, and allows them to make some more money selling maybe a dev tool for the community which ive seen, and sell expansions. Its good for them and turns out to be good for us in the end as well.

[Sailor Steve]

hmm, then I'm afraid to mention that you cannot take part in DRM's benefits! :D
Poor me. :cry:

Somehow that doesn't bother me as much as some people think it should.

Because, then you get people creating their own content and they dont see any money out of it. Its just the way it is, people forget that these are businesses, they need money to survive.
What part of "I CAN'T get on the internet" did you miss? If they make a game that way I simply cannot play it.

We're all adults here, you cant see things from their perspective as well?
Yes, I can. But you haven't answered my question.

With DRM, it kills modding,
This is a good thing how?

and allows them to make some more money selling maybe a dev tool for the community which ive seen, and sell expansions.
All of which they could do now for SH3 and SH4, but they haven't. What makes you think they will for this one?

Its good for them and turns out to be good for us in the end as well.
"Us?" For you maybe, but for me and many others? Well, we're just screwed, aren't we. And all of your love for this toy won't change that.

[trenken]

Not quite
With FO3 you can cut connection and drive off merrily playing
With SH5 you have to stay connected

Not the same then

Come on man, thats the same thing. I know the point the other guy is trying to make, the constant connection. If I need a connection to launch it, I think I would have a connection later on as well.

Who has a connection to launch a game, and not one after that? Its the same deal with both games, you need a connection to run it.

[tater]

To be clear, checking at game launch is a special case. A single moment in time. So the chances of a net glitch during that tiny launch/check period are small indeed.

This scheme has the game stop if the connection even pauses during your X hours of play.

Completely, totally unacceptable. Full stop.

[mookiemookie]

We're all adults here, you cant see things from their perspective as well? With DRM, it kills modding, and allows them to make some more money selling maybe a dev tool for the community which ive seen, and sell expansions. Its good for them and turns out to be good for us in the end as well.

Anything that kills modding for the SH series is most definitely NOT good for us.

[tater]

Come on man, thats the same thing. I know the point the other guy is trying to make, the constant connection. If I need a connection to launch it, I think I would have a connection later on as well.

Who has a connection to launch a game, and not one after that? Its the same deal with both games, you need a connection to run it.

Not REMOTELY the same.
Not even a little.

Someone with dial-up could log in, start their game, then log out and still play.

Not with constant connection.

Someone like me with DSL at the range limits from the CO can have issues in bad weather (buried lines get wet) and have my connection drop for a few minutes here and there. 100% totally unacceptable.

[trenken]

Anything that kills modding for the SH series is most definitely NOT good for us.

Well I just dont see things that way. Im not going to sit here and cry on a message board about something I cant control when all of these game dev's are switching over to this.

I embraced DRM over 3 years ago and its worked out just fine for me. I NEVER have a computer that does not have an internet connection 99.99% of the time. Who here is on computer that doesnt have a connection at times? I would assume you must still be on dial-up.

[THE_MASK]

If you have to be connected the whole time while playing , i am just not buying it .

[badkarma]

Come on man, thats the same thing. I know the point the other guy is trying to make, the constant connection. If I need a connection to launch it, I think I would have a connection later on as well.

Who has a connection to launch a game, and not one after that? Its the same deal with both games, you need a connection to run it.

http://www.voxhub.com/voip/pages/images/products/laptop.jpg

You may not have seen one of these before.
It's called a laptop.. you can move them around! No really!
You can leave them on and keep playing games after they're authenticated and you leave your network cable. I know many people that do this.
Newsflash: Not everyone in the world is you.

[bigboywooly]

Come on man, thats the same thing. I know the point the other guy is trying to make, the constant connection. If I need a connection to launch it, I think I would have a connection later on as well.

Who has a connection to launch a game, and not one after that? Its the same deal with both games, you need a connection to run it.

Again all circumstances are different
I usually wait an hour for my girls to come out of school then drive them home
In that hour i can play games on my lappy
Now if I need to connect online to check disc I could do so at work and then drive away - game connected
Couldnt if need to stay connected all the time

Same for those who pay - hotels etc - connect check and then disconnect as opposed to stay connected and keep paying

Personally dont see the need to connect to net tp check eligable only on install and possibly updates - as Windows does

[trenken]

Not REMOTELY the same.
Not even a little.

Someone with dial-up could log in, start their game, then log out and still play.

Not with constant connection.

Someone like me with DSL at the range limits from the CO can have issues in bad weather (buried lines get wet) and have my connection drop for a few minutes here and there. 100% totally unacceptable.

Who the hell has a machine advanced enough to run a 2010 PC game with dial-up, you're grasiping at straws at this point.

I get that broadband isnt even offered in some places, but im sorry you just cant make a game these days for everyone. Most people have broadband and have an internet connection at all times, end of story. the contant connection complaint is so ridiculous to me. What is this 1996?

[jerm138]

This is like cutting off your arm to heal a broken foot.

This will not stop piracy. If anything, it's encouraging it. Like others have mentioned... a well-pirated version will be able to be played anytime without any of these hassles. Paying customers? Not so much.

I'll be saving my $60 until they see the backlash and stop the madness. Maybe by then it will be in the bargain bin.

Sad.

[Rosencrantz]

Ok,

if UBI will follow Trenken's way, then it probably should change it's name also. UBI-Microsoft could be appropriate, I think.


"There is no update availible to the product installed on your system. Buy a new version."

OR

"U-boat type IXC now availible! Price 15,99 USD for version Flak I! Optional Wintergarten upgrade for 5,95 USD! Order Now!"


-RC-

[tater]

Or I have some period to play one night. Kids are finally in bed, wife has to look at CT scans, etc online for about an hour on the other computer, then wants to hit the hot tub. I have 1 hour to play while she chews up our bandwidth. Period. I start up my game, and it downloads a huge patch. Server stinks (not atypical) and DL is slow enough, plus the odd MRI, etc, slowing things down. My hour is now 40 minutes or less. Never mind.

And that's without the mods getting killed—if it doesn't have organic (not JSGME) mod support, auto-updating is a 100% kill on modding. (since it will overwrite files replaced by JSGME, which will be in turn replaced with the pre-modded version when the mod is disabled.

[Sailor Steve]

Who here is on computer that doesnt have a connection at times? I would assume you must still be on dial-up.
I don't have an internet connection at all. Do I count?

[trenken]

I don't have an internet connection at all. Do I count?

No, and that's noone's problem but yours. There will come a day when you cannot buy a game that doesnt access the internet. Sorry, thats not something ubi or any game dev is going to worry about in 2010.

I dont mean YOU by the way, obviously you're on the internet, I mean those without it. They'll be left behind, happens every generation, people unwilling to accept the new ways of things. Its happening on this very site today.

[sergei]

Go fire up Fallout 3 without an internet connection, smart guy. Tell me how that works out for you.

Seems to work out just fine for me.
For some reason my copy of Fallout 3 does not insist that I stay connected to the internet whenever I play it.
Strange.

[bigboywooly]

I don't have an internet connection at all. Do I count?

Apparently not
Nor large parts of Aus as posters have already posted
Or those in rural areas
Meh
As long as Trenken can play all is well and the rest of us can go whistle

[mookiemookie]

Well I just dont see things that way.
Then it's absolutely crystal clear that you have no idea what you're talking about in terms of modding as it relates to the SH series.

[simsurfer]

No, it allows them to create their own expansions and actually try to turn a decent profit on this franchise. When they can make more money, thats good for us too you know. Thats means we get more games.

None of us knows if this would have been the end of the road for SH, its certainly always possible in a genre like this. But if they can put a great expansion out, get a bunch of us to buy it, well that certainly helps raise the chances for SH6. Or if SH6 was going to happen either way, then it gives them some more $$ to dump into it. That works for me.

Thats how I look at things. I dont think about things in just the short term all the time, all negative about everything, hanging on to the past, only worried about myself. I actually want them to make as much money as possible, and ill give some of mine to them if I feel the expansions are good enough. Many people will regardless. You dont have to buy SH5 if you dont want.

You actually "believe" this?

[trenken]

Seems to work out just fine for me.
For some reason my version of Fallout 3 does not insist that I stay connected to the internet whenever I play it.
Strange.

Noone said it needs constant connection, just that it needs internet to launch it, unless you're using FOSE, which I dont. Its a way to bypass the Steam and GFWL log-ins. I dont use it though.

If you have internet to launch a game, you should have it to run it. This is a single player game, its using the server for very minimal tasks. You could probably stream a movie while playing this game and I think you'll be just fine.

[Sailor Steve]

I dont mean YOU by the way, obviously you're on the internet, I mean those without it.
No, I'm not. I'm posting from my local library. I'm on a very limited income, and the simple price of a regular connection is way out of my league. If the wave of the future is doing things that way, then I guess I'll go back to playing the old games, and maybe read more.:dead:

[karamazovnew]

Trenken really now... for someone accusing us of having zero knowledge about DRM... it's just.... GOD!

DRM has been around since the first game where you had to put a floppy in just to play it. Double so for Cd's back in the 90's. Back then a hard-disk was sometimes 10 times smaller than a CD.

After the CD blanks and recorders came around, the companies had to implement disk-checking. That was also broken either through emulating the disk or changing executable files.

Fallout 3, Spore, Mass Effect 2 all fall into this category. Even Steam games! Heck, it only took a month to crack GTA4. Most games get cracked before they get to the shops!

99.9% of games share this easy to brake DRM that is more or less intrusive on the player that actually buys the game:
- some require online activation at first start (Spore)
- some require online check at every start (3d Sex Villa, shut up :oops:)
- Most require the DVD to be in the drive through Starforce, Securom or other DRM's
Most players just get cracks for them to prevent damaging their disks. I have a few mint-condition games myself, never removed from box.

Then there are games that have been cracked but also provide Online features for which you do need to register online and BE online: L4D, all MMO's, Rise of Flight. Again all of these have MULTIPLAYER as their main attraction.

SH5 will be the first game ever to require you to stay online permanently to play in OFFLINE! What part of that don't you get? If you have a good net connection, good for you, most of us don't.

[trenken]

Then it's absolutely crystal clear that you have no idea what you're talking about in terms of modding as it relates to the SH series.

You're right, ive only been playing these games for many years now. Im just not stuck in the past, thats all. Modding is over, let it go. Its up to ubi, so ill just roll with the flow. Crying about it here will do nothing for me.

[trenken]

No, I'm not. I'm posting from my local library. I'm on a very limited income, and the simple price of a regular connection is way out of my league. If the wave of the future is doing things that way, then I guess I'll go back to playing the old games, and maybe read more.:dead:

Yeah thats just the way it will be. Everything is on the internet now, a time will come when you cant even buy physical media anymore, digital distribution is the natural progression of things. That wont work for you at all.

Just saying, they cant worry about every soul on earth.

[badkarma]

They'll be left behind, happens every generation, people unwilling to accept the new ways of things. Its happening on this very site today.

Yeah, how dare they not be willing to move house. Absurd!
I've never seen someone on these forums in all my time here that acted like a little self-absorbed child playing some Halo game.. I guess no forum is free from such "people".

[Sailor Steve]

Poor you when you have a total power outage. You might not survive it.

[sergei]

Noone said it needs constant connection, just that it needs internet to launch it

But the point is that SH5 WILL need a constant connection the whole time you are playing.
Which is one of the reasons why people here are getting so annoyed.
Not really comparing like with like are you?

[badkarma]

Crying about it here will do nothing for me.

But repeatedly arguing your opinions is giving you thrills?

[floundericiousWA]

Because, then you get people creating their own content and they dont see any money out of it. Its just the way it is, people forget that these are businesses, they need money to survive.

We're all adults here, you cant see things from their perspective as well? With DRM, it kills modding, and allows them to make some more money selling maybe a dev tool for the community which ive seen, and sell expansions. Its good for them and turns out to be good for us in the end as well.

It could kill modding (though that didn't stop SHIII from having some truly awesome, epic mod content added over time)...but here's the problem with that: The ability of modders to keep people interested and active and excited about a game is one of the KEYS to having a long-lived series with a strong sales base. Without the ability to mod the silent hunter games, their appeal wanes over the course of a few months and it goes dark. :yawn:

The modding of SHIII has kept it relevant even now several years later (in the virtual computer world, that's a millenium or an age, speaking figuratively). The modding of SHIV made the game playable and fun and pushed the graphics engine to new heights. :yep:

I'd be stunned if the lead devs didn't constantly look at and play with the mod content for these games to mine the best ideas out and incorporate them in the next evolution of the SH family. The release of garysmod has kept HL2 and the source engine relevant even now several years after its release. Community modders are, again, pushing the source engine to its limits and I'd bet valve are constantly watching and taking notes for their own benefit. :yep:

Freespace 2 has/had the same thing going for it. :yep:

The common vein of ALL of these examples is the same. Free use of the software without cumbersome DRM controls allowed people to invest the hundreds and thousands of hours of their personal effort to improve a game they love. :damn::damn::doh: :salute::yeah:

As much fun as I have playing LOTRO, I routinely get burnt out because it's all the same types of gameplay over and over and over. I get new content when the developers decide to make it and sell it. Silent Hunter is not a "game" so much as a "brand" and a huge slice of that brand is a thriving amateur programmer modding community.

We don't know how this DRM will work, but it's sounding like something that would fundamentally alter the guts of the brand and exclude the possibility to see some of the truly AWESOME mod work that this community can produce. :down:

[trenken]

Trenken really now... for someone accusing us of having zero knowledge about DRM... it's just.... GOD!

DRM has been around since the first game where you had to put a floppy in just to play it. Double so for Cd's back in the 90's. Back then a hard-disk was sometimes 10 times smaller than a CD.

After the CD blanks and recorders came around, the companies had to implement disk-checking. That was also broken either through emulating the disk or changing executable files.

Fallout 3, Spore, Mass Effect 2 all fall into this category. Even Steam games! Heck, it only took a month to crack GTA4. Most games get cracked before they get to the shops!

99.9% of games share this easy to brake DRM that is more or less intrusive on the player that actually buys the game:
- some require online activation at first start (Spore)
- some require online check at every start (3d Sex Villa, shut up :oops:)
- Most require the DVD to be in the drive through Starforce, Securom or other DRM's
Most players just get cracks for them to prevent damaging their disks. I have a few mint-condition games myself, never removed from box.

Then there are games that have been cracked but also provide Online features for which you do need to register online and BE online: L4D, all MMO's, Rise of Flight. Again all of these have MULTIPLAYER as their main attraction.

SH5 will be the first game ever to require you to stay online permanently to play in OFFLINE! What part of that don't you get? If you have a good net connection, good for you, most of us don't.

I get all that buddy boy. Did you read the part where Ubi said you will need to INSTALL the game on your machine? This is NOT an MMO, data from 100s of players is not being streamed to you at all times.

My point is if youve got a connection to launch it, such as is the case with Fallout 3, then you should probably have a connection after that, and all this game is doing is dealing with game saves and stat tracking. If you're on broadband im pretty sure you could stream a freaking movie and play this game, wait and see.

If you're on dialup, well these games arent made for you. Go play checkers online or something.

[mookiemookie]

Modding is over, let it go. :doh::rotfl2:

Its up to ubi, so ill just roll with the flow. Crying about it here will do nothing for me.
Yes, how silly of customers to express their displeasure at a decision made by a business. Because clearly the men in the suits in the boardroom are never wrong.

[ETR3(SS)]

You're right, ive only been playing these games for many years now. Im just not stuck in the past, thats all. Modding is over, let it go. Its up to ubi, so ill just roll with the flow. Crying about it here will do nothing for me.How long have you been these games for? Serious question.:hmmm:

[karamazovnew]

You're right, ive only been playing these games for many years now. Im just not stuck in the past, thats all. Modding is over, let it go. Its up to ubi, so ill just roll with the flow. Crying about it here will do nothing for me.

I really think we should applaud you for this comment. You've said it better than anyone on the forum. You've just spoken the words we were all horrified to utter. You're right, it is over. For us old guys. The future will belong to you, have fun with it.

[trenken]

How long have you been these games for? Serious question.:hmmm:

Since SH1. Im a big fan. Im also not going to end up one of those dudes at walmart looking in the VHS bin when DVDs were the new thing.

Many PC games these days use DRM, its becoming more and more common. Modding, playing offline -- things of the past now. You can be a bunch of old farts complaining about here all day, its not going to change the trend of the entire industry. Sorry to inform you of that.

[Thomen]

I really think we should applaud you for this comment. You've said it better than anyone on the forum. You've just spoken the words we were all horrified to utter. You're right, it is over. For us old guys. The future will belong to you, have fun with it.

In that case, we old-timers can probably sell a lot of bridges to the new generation and get stinkin' rich that way.

[trenken]

I really think we should applaud you for this comment. You've said it better than anyone on the forum. You've just spoken the words we were all horrified to utter. You're right, it is over. For us old guys. The future will belong to you, have fun with it.

Im not saying that though. Noone wants anyone to be left behind. Just that SH3 was what it was, the mods were very cool, its changing now though, so all you can do is find something else you like. Maybe they will put out a super kick ass expansion now. You really dont know, try to be positive, thats all im trying to say here.

How else can you be? You cant be negative because that wont change a thing.

[floundericiousWA]

I embraced DRM over 3 years ago and its worked out just fine for me. I NEVER have a computer that does not have an internet connection 99.99% of the time. Who here is on computer that doesnt have a connection at times? I would assume you must still be on dial-up.

You sound like a recovering addict with that first phrase there...

What's wrong with having dial-up?????! You're missing the chief gripe...why is the internet connection required in order to play the single player game!?!?!?

What about people who play these games on laptops on long travel trips? What about the MANY active and reserve submariners who've served on honest to god military subs who frequent these boards and play these games during off-duty breaks while on deployment? "Skipper, can we surface so I can get a satellite internet connection to play my copy of Silent Hunter 5???"

Why is my being connected to the internet a REQUIREMENT to run a SINGLE PLAYER game...particularly one that is a SIMULATION and will have me spending long periods staring at the inside of the sub or the plot map?

[ETR3(SS)]

Since SH1. Im a big fan. And when did you start playing SH1?

[trenken]

why is the internet connection required in order to play the single player game!?!?!?


How is that your concern? It is what it is now, many of these dev's want to use this system, so what are the few of us going to do about that? Nothing. Go find a new hobby if you dont like it, but its sure as hell not going away, its allowing many of them to streamline their process of updating games, delivering new content, etc...

[bigboywooly]

Im not saying that though. Noone wants anyone to be left behind. Just that SH3 was what it was, the mods were very cool, its changing now though, so all you can do is find something else you like. Maybe they will put out a super kick ass expansion now. You really dont know, try to be positive, thats all im trying to say here.

How else can you be? You cant be negative because that wont change a thing.

If you been playing SH series from 1 as you say then you will know that historical accuracy and kick ass expansions are NOT what you will get from ubi

That may not matter in the games you listed as playing but in a SUB SIM it does
Note the SIM not game
World of difference

[trenken]

And when did you start playing SH1?

Well I was in florida at school, so I guess around 97. I got it after it came out though, I dont know when it was released.

[floundericiousWA]

If you're on dialup, well these games arent made for you. Go play checkers online or something.

Stuff it.

[floundericiousWA]

How is that your concern? It is what it is now, many of these dev's want to use this system, so what are the few of us going to do about that? Nothing. Go find a new hobby if you dont like it, but its sure as hell not going away, its allowing many of them to streamline their process of updating games, delivering new content, etc...

Yeah, that's right...it would all be perfect if it wasn't for all those stupid, what do you call them.... customers!

[trenken]

If you been playing SH series from 1 as you say then you will know that historical accuracy and kick ass expansions are NOT what you will get from ubi

That may not matter in the games you listed as playing but in a SUB SIM it does
Note the SIM not game
World of difference

Trust me, Im well aware of all the mods. I have tons of them installed on my PC, all kinds of boat skins, better textures of the land, random weather, all of it.

All im saying is that ubi has decided to end that, so what am I going to do now? Well im going to find some way to enjoy SH5. I guess im the freaking nut around here trying to be positive, but thats okay with me. Im a happy guy, I dont get mad about computer crap, especially changes in games. Total waste of time.

[karamazovnew]

You know what.. I'll go ask Neal to let me chill a bit in the Brig. If I continue this I might end up there anyway. However, if you completely ignore trenken's inability to comprehend why this type of DRM is different from all the others, you'll see that he is indeed right. Old farts like us better find something different to do. For example, play GWX... I will not support a game or a company that continues in this fashion. If the SH5 community must die before birth, at least it might prevent the SoW one from doing the same.

[badkarma]

What about people who play these games on laptops on long travel trips? What about the MANY active and reserve submariners who've served on honest to god military subs who frequent these boards and play these games during off-duty breaks while on deployment? "Skipper, can we surface so I can get a satellite internet connection to play my copy of Silent Hunter 5???"

They'll be left behind, happens every generation, people unwilling to accept the new ways of things. Its happening on this very site today.

They should obviously get another job, and move house in trenken's perfect world.
I was getting pretty pissed at you earlier trenken but now I just pity you. You're the exact reason people get away with things they shouldn't in this modern age.
"It's no use causing trouble"
"I can't change anything"
"It'll happen no matter what I do"
It's a tragic example of 21st century "Western" world thinking.

Seriously mate, I pity you.

[BulSoldier]

My gaming computer is where i live (not here from my parents home from witch i am writing) and there i dont have internet connection at all for reasons i cant explain here. So what it comes to is that i cannot play the game because i dont have internet.
And thats why i am copletly against things like steam or drm.I never liked them and i am pretty sure i never will.

[Webster]

You're right, ive only been playing these games for many years now. Im just not stuck in the past, thats all. Modding is over, let it go. Its up to ubi, so ill just roll with the flow. Crying about it here will do nothing for me.


modding is what this community is about and only from modding did the silent hunter series survive to this day and if you knew anything about the series you wouldnt be making comments like that so if you are not into modding then im not sure what you are here for.

you have stated your opinion on DRM and it is obvious the rest of the community does not agree with you on that but everyone is entitled to their opinion so if we dont have a problem with you liking DRM then why do you continue to insist we wake up and start loving it.

this is really getting old so please tone it down a little

[trenken]

Stuff it.

??

You seriously expect game dev's to just spend the next 10 years making sure their games work for dialup? I cant even relate to that kind of thinking.

Maybe you dont have money, maybe you cant get broadband in your area, but dont expect the entire industry to wait up. Thats a little silly.

[Rosencrantz]

Trenken wrote:



How is that your concern? It is what it is now, many of these dev's want to use this system, so what are the few of us going to do about that?



Why are you talking all the time what the community can and what it can't do?

"Many of the devs" and " the few of us"???


Jesus, there is over 40 000 of "us" only in the subsim. And much more around the globe and other sites. How many devs you think build up the game? 10 000 000???????????'


-RC-

[Thomen]

You know what.. I'll go ask Neal to let me chill a bit in the Brig. If I continue this I might end up there anyway. However, if you completely ignore trenken's inability to comprehend why this type of DRM is different from all the others, you'll see that he is indeed right. Old farts like us better find something different to do. For example, play GWX... I will not support a game or a company that continues in this fashion. If the SH5 community must die before birth, at least it might prevent the SoW one from doing the same.

Relax man. :03:
Have a beer or two. It must 5 o'clock somewhere, right? :D

[trenken]

modding is what this community is about and only from modding did the silent hunter series survive to this day and if you knew anything about the series you wouldnt be making comments like that so if you are not into modding then im not sure what you are here for.


Everyone loves user created content, it's my favorite part of games. I play a game on the xbox called forza 3, its a racing game. I hang out and just paint cars all day and sell them to people.

But this is all done through an in game system. The dev tools are built into the game for use to use. Its very cool, maybe they will put something out like this for SH5?

Charge maybe $10-20 for it, and suddenly you dont need to be a modder to make new things, you've got a tool to help you do it.

[floundericiousWA]

??

You seriously expect game dev's to just spend the next 10 years making sure their games work for dialup? I cant even relate to that kind of thinking.

Maybe you dont have money, maybe you cant get broadband in your area, but dont expect the entire industry to wait up. Thats a little silly.

I didn't say that, the "stuff it" was to your snooty "well you should go play online checkers" comment.

I expect the developers to do their best to make the best, most enjoyable game they can in the time and budget allocated to them. If I like it and can live with it, then I'll shake hands and buy it.

I'm struggling to figure out your angle here...you sure are bending over backwards.

[bigboywooly]

Trust me, Im well aware of all the mods. I have tons of them installed on my PC, all kinds of boat skins, better textures of the land, random weather, all of it.

All im saying is that ubi has decided to end that, so what am I going to do now? Well im going to find some way to enjoy SH5. I guess im the freaking nut around here trying to be positive, but thats okay with me. Im a happy guy, I dont get mad about computer crap, especially changes in games. Total waste of time.

Well according the the devs they have made it easier to mod
So one doesnt stack with the other
IF the SH series was in any way accurate or finished when released then there would be no need for mods and we would play as delivered BUT we all know that is never gonna happen

As I care not for shoot em ups it does matter to me the future of a decent ( ish ) subsim
And many here which is why ppl get a lil ticked off

[karamazovnew]

Relax man. :03:
Have a beer or two. It must 5 o'clock somewhere, right? :D

Join me, won't you? I hear she has a sister.

http://bensbreakfastblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/beer-girl3.jpg

[floundericiousWA]

Join me, won't you? I hear she has a sister.

http://bensbreakfastblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/beer-girl3.jpg

I'll take one of those!

ciao for now

[tater]

Who the hell has a machine advanced enough to run a 2010 PC game with dial-up, you're grasiping at straws at this point.

I get that broadband isnt even offered in some places, but im sorry you just cant make a game these days for everyone. Most people have broadband and have an internet connection at all times, end of story. the contant connection complaint is so ridiculous to me. What is this 1996?

Fine, Ubi wants to write-off X% of the box-game market because the customers have to have a full-time connection to play an offline game. great. Sub sims are huge sellers, they can afford to throw X% of the market share interested in their title in the trash.

Oh, and 80% of the people here on subsim who otherwise would have been sure sales.

I have broadband. None the less it can be flakey.

I'm fine with a way for the devs to protect their intellectual property. This is not it, and will, as many have said, be instantly cracked anyway.

[trenken]

You know what.. I'll go ask Neal to let me chill a bit in the Brig. If I continue this I might end up there anyway. However, if you completely ignore trenken's inability to comprehend why this type of DRM is different from all the others, you'll see that he is indeed right. Old farts like us better find something different to do. For example, play GWX... I will not support a game or a company that continues in this fashion. If the SH5 community must die before birth, at least it might prevent the SoW one from doing the same.

Come on, that's silly. All Im saying is give it a chance. Dont bail on it just yet, the damn game isnt even out. Wait for some reviews, see what the users think.

All you guys going nuts over this is crazy to me. I dont get it.

[THE_MASK]

Oh yeah, Sh5 is easier to mod . They didnt say you could play a modded game online with a drm though.

[trenken]

I didn't say that, the "stuff it" was to your snooty "well you should go play online checkers" comment.

I expect the developers to do their best to make the best, most enjoyable game they can in the time and budget allocated to them. If I like it and can live with it, then I'll shake hands and buy it.

I'm struggling to figure out your angle here...you sure are bending over backwards.

Oh I was joking with the checkers comment. Wasnt anything against you, I just mean in general you always see this with technology. Things are always progressing. Its great for people willing to accept it.

Thats why I brought up the VHS thing. There are still people out there in old vintage stores looking for VHSs, but its all DVD now.

Well same deal is happening with games, once again. Its getting to the point where you now need constant connections to play games. Well deal with it or be the guy in the used game bin trying to find games that dont require internet connections.

See what I mean?

[BulSoldier]

It pretty much is clear why the nonsense and holding back info in the dev q&a. It ramains to be seen what is going to happen to the genre, but the way i see it, the only way to support it is to show the publisher that the majority of the community doesnt want halffinished products at full cost that has more reqirments than a pair of babies.

[ETR3(SS)]

Well I was in florida at school, so I guess around 97. I got it after it came out though, I dont know when it was released.Mind if I ask what you were in school for?

[Thomen]

Join me, won't you? I hear she has a sister.

http://bensbreakfastblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/beer-girl3.jpg

I would! But would have to evade a very observant DD (wife) that guards the harbor exit.. :D

[trenken]

Mind if I ask what you were in school for?

3D Animation. That's what I still do, although Ive branched out a lot more since. Went to a school called Full Sail in Orlando.

[karamazovnew]

Come on, that's silly. All Im saying is give it a chance. Dont bail on it just yet, the damn game isnt even out. Wait for some reviews, see what the users think.

All you guys going nuts over this is crazy to me. I dont get it.

Look, I own a superb PC, and have a rock solid 10 megaBYTE connection. I can play the game at home, no problem. During this year I've had to travel about 20 hours a week by train to get to my naval university. I also live in a school dorm which doens't have net. But I'm also a cadet on VLCC's (tankers). I don't have net there for 4 months. I have a superb laptop too, 4000 euros worth. I can play anything except for online games. We have access to the ship's net, we can play LAN games, we're allowed to send and recieve 1 mail per day or even log on Yahoo on the Radioman's station. Now tell me, how am I supposed to play SH5? Traffic or speed isn't the issue here. I don't care if it's 1 kbps... I can't play it. Ubisoft is about to implement this DRM on all of it's future games, including the one which I've been waiting for since Il-2... Storm of War. I'll get an HMD just for it, and a good portable stick. How else to waste 8 hours a day? So you see? I can't afford this new direction. I can't afford to support such a dreadful thing. I want to support games, I like collecting game boxes, I don't want to see "Microprose" fall again. But I can't support this, not now. Maybe in the future we'll all have internet running through our blood-nanobots.

[makman94]

well, i think that it will be the first time that i will not pay for a silent hunter!
all previous versions were fully paid ,in order to express my thanks to the devs (to the devs...not to ubi) and then cracked .
now,who is 'hiding' behind its finger?
but,...what is doing ubi is unacceptable by any meaning! internet connections are very unstable for many many reasons and i don't want to depend from anyone once i have paid to buy the game !
the only way to get my money for 'rending' me a game (as a member very correctly said) is to get its price to 1 dollar ! no more than this becuase they can 'take' it from me anytime they want (or the time that i really would like to play it and the internet....#$@$@! !!)
this game will be fully paid when (and if) ever it is cracked .then they will get my thanks

ps: to ubi: it will be better to spent your efforts to give unbugged games to market ...instead of only trying to get the money !

[ETR3(SS)]

3D Animation. That's what I still do, although Ive branched out a lot more since. Went to a school called Full Sail in Orlando.Good to hear your liking it. How long have you been doing 3D animation?

[floundericiousWA]

Oh yeah, Sh5 is easier to mod . They didnt say you could play a modded game online with a drm though.


This is why, despite my frustration at the idea, I'm going to stay at least on the sideline watching how the release goes and monitoring the radio room. If it ends up being transparent and not obtrusive, I'll be receptive...if it ends up causing massive headaches, I'll :nope: and stay out.

We simply don't know how it's going to practically work until they actually release it.

[trenken]

Look, I own a superb PC, and have a rock solid 10 megaBYTE connection. I can play the game at home, no problem. During this year I've had to travel about 20 hours a week by train to get to my naval university. I also live in a school dorm which doens't have net. But I'm also a cadet on VLCC's (tankers). I don't have net there for 4 months. I have a superb laptop too, 4000 euros worth. I can play anything except for online games. We have access to the ship's net, we can play LAN games, we're allowed to send and recieve 1 mail per day or even log on Yahoo on the Radioman's station. Now tell me, how am I supposed to play SH5? Traffic or speed isn't the issue here. I don't care if it's 1 kbps... I can't play it. Ubisoft is about to implement this DRM on all of it's future games, including the one which I've been waiting for since Il-2... Storm of War. I'll get an HMD just for it, and a good portable stick. How else to waste 8 hours a day? So you see? I can't afford this new direction. I can't afford to support such a dreadful thing. I want to support games, I like collecting game boxes, I don't want to see "Microprose" fall again. But I can't support this, not now. Maybe in the future we'll all have internet running through our blood-nanobots.

I get what you're saying, that definitely sucks, but it's a specialized situation. Im not too sure the guys are Ubi are saying, "well what about the guy that has to go to school and cant get internet?"

I'm seeing more and more games using this, everyone's jumping on board, and some people will get left behind. That's just the way it is. Sucks for them, but apparently these dev's think that it's worth it. We cant change that, and there's not nearly enough people to start some sort of movement against it. People are still buying these games because the fact is most of us do have broadband at all times, not all, but most that would play these modern games.

[floundericiousWA]

what you mean 'we,' kemo sabe?

[hyperion2206]

Old farts like us better find something different to do.

You know what's really sad? That I'm an old fart now and I'm only 23...:wah:

[Webster]

well, i think that it will be the first time that i will not pay for a silent hunter!
all previous versions were fully paid ,in order to express my thanks to the devs (to the devs...not to ubi) and then cracked .
now,who is 'hiding' behind its finger?
but,...what is doing ubi is unacceptable by any meaning! internet connections are very unstable for many many reasons and i don't want to depend from anyone once i have paid to buy the game !
the only way to get my money for 'rending' me a game (as a member very correctly said) is to get its price to 1 dollar ! no more than this becuase they can 'take' it from me anytime they want (or the time that i really would like to play it and the internet....#$@$@! !!)
this game will be fully paid when (and if) ever it is cracked .then they will get my thanks

ps: to ubi: it will be better to spent your efforts to give unbugged games to market ...instead of only trying to get the money !

it is easy to see this is a translation error and you meant to say "DRM free" but speaking of cracks can get you in trouble so it is best avoid using this word

[trenken]

Good to hear your liking it. How long have you been doing 3D animation?

Honestly I didnt start doing it til I got to school. I played games and whatnot before, but I wanted to learn something new, so I just signed up and here I am, still doing it 12 years later.

It wasnt very hard at all to learn, even for me with no experience before getting there, but like anything else it takes practice to get good at it. Anyone can do it though, you dont need any sort of inherent skill aside from the ability and willingness to learn.

[Webster]

I'm seeing more and more games using this, everyone's jumping on board, and some people will get left behind. That's just the way it is. Sucks for them, but apparently these dev's think that it's worth it. We cant change that, and there's not nearly enough people to start some sort of movement against it. People are still buying these games because the fact is most of us do have broadband at all times, not all, but most that would play these modern games.


you know they said the same thing about electric cars and global warming and carbon emissions and with each one "they" found people will only be pushed so far before they push back and say no to such BS

[makman94]

it is easy to see this is a translation error and you meant to say "DRM free" but speaking of cracks can get you in trouble so it is best avoid using this word

sure Webster...."DRM free" ...exactly this ! :DL

[bigboywooly]

We simply don't know how it's going to practically work until they actually release it.

Valid point which stops me from preordering it - along with the DRM
I would have bought the game despite only one sub type and short war just to keep the series afloat, as i did with SH4 even though hated the look of it and didnt like playing it even with the add on - lol and if honest disliked working on it for GWX4.
But still bought it
The way Sh5 is being marketed lead me to believe ubi care not for its customers - moreso than usual - and care not for the SH series themselves
So why should I

Time will tell I guess unless ubi can start giving some answers
:rotfl2:
Fat chance of that

[Arclight]

This thing is moving so fast I can't possibly keep up. :doh:

For the recoerd, I think they said saves are synchronized to the server; which I interpret as local saves that are uploaded so you can continue your game anywhere. Not that horrible imho. :hmmm:

[Jades]

TBH I was pretty indifferent to SH5 anyway, but the stuff I've read here is the final nail in the coffin. I hadn't heard the thing about only having one boat and ending in 1943 - you're making that up, right? RIGHT!?

The great thing for me, particularly if the new game from the IL2 developers will be published by Ubisoft and have the same DRM scheme, is I'm going to save a FORTUNE on PC upgrades and have a whole lot of other games to play. I may well reinvest the money in drink.

DRINK!
GIRLS!
ARSE!
****!
DRINK!
DRINK!

;)

[bigboywooly]

This thing is moving so fast I can't possibly keep up. :doh:

For the recoerd, I think they said saves are synchronized to the server; which I interpret as local saves that are uploaded so you can continue your game anywhere. Not that horrible imho. :hmmm:

Aye tis true tho likely uses Ubi save to fire up game as you can play from any comp you have it installed on
And of course as long as you are connected to the net :dead:

[trenken]

This thing is moving so fast I can't possibly keep up. :doh:

For the recoerd, I think they said saves are synchronized to the server; which I interpret as local saves that are uploaded so you can continue your game anywhere. Not that horrible imho. :hmmm:

Correct. But doing that puts all of the modders out of business. Of course bad for them, but SH1-4 were what they were, great games, time to move on, so the series is heading in a new direction now. Not that big of a deal to me, and I loved the mods believe me.

I can sure live without them though if they put out some content creation tools for us to customize things, maybe set up some new missions, anything. Maybe some expansions, who knows. I cant change the way they're going, so ill hope for the best and see what happens with this new direction for SH.

If they dont do any of that, big deal, im buried in a backlog of games I need to play. SH wont last forever.

[Onkel Neal]

Trenken, your reasoning is so naive that I'm beginning to wonder if you're some kind of viral marketing stunt.

:hmmm:


Let the man state his opinion. You have to know that even though a lot of people react negatively to this DRM, not everyone cares that much.

[maurader]

Have to just quote this again for that guy so he can look even worse.

"We do NOT use online authentication or any other SecuROM functionality except for a disc check when you install the game and when you launch the game"

If I try and launch FO3 right now with no internet connection, game will not run. Same deal with SH5.

Read the quote again:

It doesn't use any online authentication.
It uses a DISK CHECK during install and launch.
My game machine is not hooked up to my router/switch. With the DVD in the drive, the game starts right up. An error pops up if I start it without the DVD.

NOT THE SAME DRM SCHEME AS SH5.

[trenken]

Let the man state his opinion. You have to know that even though a lot of people react negatively to this DRM, not everyone cares that much.

Well Im pretty much done. I remain positive about it, Im excited about the game, but people around here are really angry about this. All we can do is wait til the game comes out, but im done talking about it. I hope some of these guys will give it a chance.

[John W. Hamm]

Guild Wars, Spore, Fallout 3 (single player only by the way), just bought MAss Effect 2 (also single player only).

Works great in all of them. A slow satellite connection make no difference with a single player only DRM game, because game data from other player is not being streamed to you, its only for stat tracking, game updates and saves.





I own and bought Fall out 3 when it first came out and I have all the add-ons and I GUARANTEE Fall Out 3 is not and was NEVER DRM in the way that they want SHV to be.

You want to bring up Spore a quote from wikipedia: "The use of DRM scheme in 2008's Spore backfired and there were considerable protest, resuming in a considerable number of users seeking a pirated version instead. This backlash against SecuROM was a significant factor in Spore becoming the most pirated game in 2008."

What color is the sky in your world?

[Topo65]

When I imagine to 100 thousand users connected by an umbilical cord to a ONE single mother, I can not leave thinking it was an excellent argument for science fiction movie, like Alien, Matrix, Terminator or something.:hmmm:

What next? Commercial breaks while I play? Subliminal messages from Mother? I cant believe it. :nope:

[ETR3(SS)]

With a certain degree of certainty, I can say that I think I know where Trenken is coming from. His staunch defense of DRM and putting money in the pockets of the gaming company is a rightly biased opinion for him. Being a 3D animator himself, DRM for anything from games, to music, to movies puts more money in his pocket. It only makes sense to be a supporter of that. How can you convince someone that something that puts money in their pocket is a bad thing? You can't, plain and simple.

[floundericiousWA]

What next? Commercial breaks while I play? Subliminal messages from Mother? I cant believe it. :nope:

IF you play some of the latest football or basketball games, they stream commercial content to the simulated court-/field-side advertisement boards...THAT horse is out of the barn lol

[trenken]

I own and bought Fall out 3 when it first came out and I have all the add-ons and I GUARANTEE Fall Out 3 is not and was NEVER DRM in the way that they want SHV to be.


You've played SH5? Becuase you need an internet connection to launch FO3 unless you install FOSE and launch the game through Fallout Mod Manager and it will bypass both the Steam (if you have a Steam version) and GFWL log-in.

If you've got an internet connection to launch FO3, you've got one to run SH5. That's who this game is made for, which is the majority of us.

As far as the mod issue, well go play SH3 if you want that. SH5 is for other people apparently. What can you do? Nothing. Buy it or dont.

[trenken]

With a certain degree of certainty, I can say that I think I know where Trenken is coming from. His staunch defense of DRM and putting money in the pockets of the gaming company is a rightly biased opinion for him. Being a 3D animator himself, DRM for anything from games, to music, to movies puts more money in his pocket. It only makes sense to be a supporter of that. How can you convince someone that something that puts money in their pocket is a bad thing? You can't, plain and simple.

I expected to get attacked for trying to defend it, thats fine. No love lost, Im not mad at anyone and I hope noone is mad at me, we're all just sharing our opinions, its all good.

They see it one way, I see it from a completely different perspective in that SH3 was great with the whole mod community, this is a different game now. So if they dont like it they dont have to buy it, thats fine, but a lot of people will still buy it so we cant get this one changed I dont think.

I really dont care either way, I dont work for ubi, but I sure do understand why they're doing it. Hard for me to complain about them for trying to make a larger profit.

[floundericiousWA]

What can you do? Nothing. Buy it or dont.

OH GREAT AND MIGHTY DEVELOPER, PLEASE HEAR MY PITIFUL PLEAS!!!!:lost:

See, again, the screeching halt that the fan community forced on SHIII when they said they wouldn't include the "dynamic" campaign. There is such a thing as souring the people who SHOULD be your champions to the broader gaming community.

[ETR3(SS)]

I expected to get attacked for trying to defend it, thats fine.Don't misconstrue my post with an "attack." Simply knowing ones ground that they stand on can go very far in a discussion.

[mookiemookie]

What can you do? Nothing.

Bullcrap.

[GlobalExplorer]

If SH5 requires an online connection I will not get it. I also think if Ubi have made this decision they may have just given the series the kiss of death. It'd make me feel really sorry for the guys at Romania and the many fans, but it's not my fault.

I never bought a game that forces an online connection on me, and I never will. nuff said.

perhaps I'll wait until it's in the bargain bin and [..]

[karamazovnew]

Reminds me of that "Fiddler on the Roof" scene... You're all correct. Ubisoft has opted for this gimmick in the hope it will "give more support to the player" (sorry, I had to quote that, it sounds too... weird) and increase sales. If our community is of a certain importance and our threats of not buying the game stick to the end, Ubisoft will reap a sour harvest. Or not... Does anyone need a reminder on the subject of I-war and Freelancer? :haha:

[floundericiousWA]

Hard for me to complain about them for trying to make a larger profit.

man oh man...trying to get you to see the point is :damn:

This has nothing to do with whether they make a larger profit. This is frustration on the part of people who sincerely want to continue buying SH games and enjoying them who are being told that paying FULL RETAIL for the game will NOT get them access to the singleplayer component of the game which is a dramatic departure for the SH series. That is, a legal or high level dev choice determines whether or not they will even have access to the game if they spend the money to buy it.

As for UBI...I hope they make a nice profit and make more by releasing expansion content...hell, this community would be JUMPING for JOY if UBI constantly released expansion packs and new content in an UBI store.

Their track record doesn't reflect their willingness to release new content (qualifier: for this game market) once they've dumped the game onto the market.

[karamazovnew]

Their track record doesn't reflect their willingness to release new content (qualifier: for this game market) once they've dumped the game onto the market.

Please do remind me... is Ubisoft behind the respawn hell of Far Cry 2? :o We're doomed!

[floundericiousWA]

You got me, I have NO experience with FC2 and I'm guessing that's a good thing! :yeah: Inertia win! YES!

[karamazovnew]

You got me, I have NO experience with FC2 and I'm guessing that's a good thing! :yeah: Inertia win! YES!

The game is filled with road blocks that respawn after you've moved more than 50 meters away. Also, the 5-6 imbeciles there shoot you no matter if you're doing missions for their faction or not. They can spot you from beyond hills during the night. It's the one thing that EVERYONE asked to be fixed. And they never did. A simple timer would've been enough. They didn't care. They only fixed a few multiplayer issues. Maybe becuase of the DRM the game used... That must be it. Well no more lads, from now on they'll instantly fix any bugs :har:

[Holdit]

When they all become online auth, I guess you won't be playing games? :03:

Blame the pirates, they know who they are.

No, I blame the game companies for introducing systems that ensure that a pirate actually has a better playing experience than a paying customer - after all DRM doesn't bother pirates, does it? That's just logic turned on its head - and all based on the (IMO) false premise that each pirate foiled = an additional sale.

No sale. But never mind, the money willl go to a game whose distributor doesn't treat me like a crook.

Holdit

[tater]

If you've got an internet connection to launch FO3, you've got one to run SH5. That's who this game is made for, which is the majority of us.

As far as the mod issue, well go play SH3 if you want that. SH5 is for other people apparently. What can you do? Nothing. Buy it or dont.

I won't play SH3, since I don't own it. I will continue to play SH4, and would even if I bought SH5 (since I won't actually play a u-boat, even if I bought SH5 to support the devs) ...

which I now won't do.

Sub sims are a niche market. Planning distribution around the twitch crowd seems to be a poor business model to me. Of course as the game heads towards twitchville content-wise, maybe it will work, it's just not for me, or the vast majority here.

Protecting content from pirates is a great idea, but this WILL be hacked, and it will increase what they mean to stop. From a purely pragmatic standpoint it's a mistake all other issues aside.

[John W. Hamm]

You know a lot of people here have expressed their opinions including yourself and we all have a right to do so, but you seem to be responding to everyone when they complain..... You almost have one post for every other member post (yes this is an exaggeration but it makes a point) I even have more than one post myself but you have me trumped in spades.....We get your point, we understand...Hell many have said that, but we don't agree! you have said your piece now allow the other to do the same unabated.

You know it's not your beliefs or the points you are trying to debate being the reason that you are a douche bag. It's your attitude towards the other people in here that makes me feel like you have earned it. Sailor Steve in particular I have always held in high regards, among others and I refuse to sit back and see you speak to them in such a arrogant and insensitive manner.

I know it is Brig time Neal I'll start heading that way no need for an escort...


Edit: Well now I just sound like i'm babbling. To no one.

[capthelm]

ok now its getting to stupid , and i do agree on this method will never run or work correct, just piss people off imo.

what happens during a server malfunction? , your own internet connection issues during play? , game stops cant continue? ..this will never win the hearts and minds to people ubi am sorry this is the most ridiculous system i have ever herd yet to date.

...have to allow offline modes...
yes i agree register for offline modes maybe once to get in and run the sim.

online should be same as sh4 register login and a password and cd key.

......both game play types should have offline continue playability , due to the event of internet issues or a ubi server overload lockup , or maintance times.

..if ubi does this they will loose many sales and risk lots of customers turning away amfraid.


i fully suppport sh5 ..but this will never work ...see the flaws in this already.

[tater]

Come on, that's silly. All Im saying is give it a chance. Dont bail on it just yet, the damn game isnt even out. Wait for some reviews, see what the users think.

All you guys going nuts over this is crazy to me. I dont get it.

The forum response is 100% predictable. 100%.

It would be true in any sim forum I am on, too. All of them.

Such systems are designed to mitigate criminal behavior, but only actually impact honest customers. The pirates won't pay regardless. If the system actually works, no pirates will play the game at all. What % of them will buy the game they cannot steal? Ubi is betting that a higher number of those pirates will shell out money than honest people will bail on the title.

I think virtually none of the pirates will pay, so every loss here will directly affect total sales.

[sabretwo]

True, there are a few people on the planet who play games in their doublewide without internet accesss, and there are occasions where internet access is not available to play, but the PC gamer is usually connected to the web 24/7.


Neal,

With all respect, that is absolutely NOT true. There are many people out there with high end systems who do not "live in double-wides", whom are not connected to the Internet when they play games. I travel a lot for business teaching seminars for a living. Most of the opportunity I get to play SH3 is when I am traveling with my laptop on the road and saying in hotels. Depending on where I am and how long I'm there, I often do not have an internet connection.

I have been giving UBI the benefit of the doubt on everything so far...taking a wait and see attitude. But any authentication system that requires an active Internet connection is a deal breaker for me. If they implement such a system, they lost my sale. I'll stick with SH3/SH4 until someone comes out with a crack or a work around. Then I'll buy it.

[theluckyone17]

After a day's worth of thinking it over, I've decided to:

Call 'em tomorrow morning, anid politely express my displeasure.

Then I'll wait.

When SH5 comes out, I'll see what the result is. Maybe SH5 will be good enough to overcome my... reservations. Maybe it won't.

If it doesn't, I'll take the time I would've spent on playing SH5 and put it into helping out on the Danger from the Deep project.

Forget "finding a new hobby". Forget embracing the DRM nonsense and succumbing to the "future". If Ubisoft doesn't want to hand me what I want, maybe I ought to be helping make what I want.

[Snestorm]

Forget "finding a new hobby". Forget embracing the DRM nonsense and succumbing to the "future". If Ubisoft doesn't want to hand me what I want, maybe I ought to be helping make what I want.

Excellent post.

[John W. Hamm]

Nope you heard it right no more DRM
UBI has has decided do to an out cry from the gaming community's it will go into Operation BS (Bait and Switch! AKA Bull ****):woot:

UBI Will discontinue DRM and move into using the more hip initials of OPS:har:

and what does OPS do???? The same damn thing!:stare:

I honestly feel as though my intelligence has really been insulted.:down:

[janh]

I travel a lot on business, but I have always had fast gaming notebooks with which I use to play wherever I am. However, I don't typically have internet everywhere, and surely not fast connections.

I was really happy to hear about the new damage model and, most of all, wolfpacks. Seems to promise a deeper simulation aspect and historically accuracy, finally! A step forward from the brilliant SH3&GWX.
I wasn't too happy that they not have a complete campaign to 1945 as well as just one sub -- kind of a step back; the new graphics and the role playing feature dont add to the simulation part for me. But the wolfpack defintely convinced me that it could be a good compromise.

I hope they won't have the new copy protection, otherwise it is not an option for me. I guess they have earned enough money from me anyways -- time to assist the competitors a bit! To bad that they continue making the mistake that so many companies have started to reverse now, also in music industry.

"Possibly a former" customer.

[Lognoreng]

Aslong as i cannot play the game whenever i want, and under any circumstances, online/offline, on earth/the moon. I wouldnt really consider it to be a game i buy, but i game i rent.. If i buy a movie it will cost alot more than renting one at my local store. So, games sells for 10euro, ill get it.. 50. No way. This is just another really stupid (and most probably useless) way to stop piracy. When are they gonna get it? most ppl who get piracy games wont buy the games anyway. I think the majority just downloads it because its something new and shiny. Fiddle with it for and hour or so to never look at it again..

Next thing would be monthly subscriptions to keep the auth servers up and running..

I might get SH5 a bunch of weeks after release in a sales bin at one of those "We sell all the crap you never knew you needed" stores, next to the PS1 games. Where i personally think its going to end up rather quick..

My 2 cents

[Greentimbers]

I'm just going to wait and see what is actually in the box before I worry about any DRM scheme.

Cheers:salute: