[REL] Thomsen's Ships V3.1 is out! All credits to H.SIE (10/12/2008)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

This week is a deciding week in my life.

If what I'm thinking actually happens, I'm gonna backpack and hit the road, for good.

My modding days will be over, and I might spend two or three years without even posting here.

:up:

[mengle]

mister Thomsen don't leave , we need your great work , who else will do it :sunny:

[Sag75]

yeah, it's a dirty job.. but someone has to do it!

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3691/detectivewj4.gif (http://imageshack.us)


:up:

[msalama]

My modding days will be over, and I might spend two or three years without even posting here.

:-?

Should you however want to continue with the mod I have the following to share:

It now seems there're also some big ships there behaving pretty well with their engine power at 10%. ATM I'm chasing this vessel resembling a troopship (these stormy OLCE nights are very dark so it's hard to be positive yet) and the bugger is chugging along pretty fast, definitely at 10kts+ at any rate.

The seas are at least as rough as they were when I reported on the slow-as-molasses medium freighter, so maybe there's something there? Just an uneducated observation, though :ping:

[asanovic7]

MR SMITH! :rotfl:

Without you matrix will not be the same..

Honestly..
Why do you bother with phoenix and such..

I think your mods are improvement to the game.. More less irrelevant..
For instance phoenix says to me there is no need in fixing "WHATS needs no fix".
I dissagree. I think your chips idea is great, because it's lame for me or anyone to see 15000t ship hopping on the little waves like little cayack in hurricane.
So it's cool.. If it gets the distance you want(your mod) GREAT..
Any mod that gets released no matter how dumb, great, realism improved or decreased is one idea, one mod(:D ) that enriches sh3 world..
So, stop ranting with those "maybe I will go" ****..
And return to mr. smith cool talk.. :D

aND please stop with those lectures to people "read the readmes, discuss, not war, blabla bla".. :D Smart enuf guy will know what to do and what to ask.. Lazy guy also.. :rotfl:
But you cannot abandon lost sh(ee)ps and spit on them..

P.S. I got a reply about "usubs decrease speed" that it would be back to square one. I DISSAGREE. If you have problems with turning and speeding(not like now 10 secs from 2 to 15 kts) and dd has the same like in real life = SWEAT, TEARS, CURSING BLASTED LUCK ETC.. It would then be strategy simulation for real. IMO :doh: and maybe I am wrong.. With wind affecting the sea and THEREFOR sail, fuel consumption etc... :doh:

P.S. If you are going to some cruise trip around the world or such, have a nice trip! :up: (internet is everywhere available so don't bulls..t)

Cheers to everyone

ONE MORE THING: I would not like this to be understood as I want to fight with phoenix, or I don't like him. I just disagree with him.. On this matter..
And I think he may have took things a little too serious..

[mengle]

MR SMITH! :rotfl:

Without you matrix will not be the same..

Honestly..
Why do you bother with phoenix and such..

I think your mods are improvement to the game.. More less irrelevant..
For instance phoenix says to me there is no need in fixing "WHATS needs no fix".
I dissagree. I think your chips idea is great, because it's lame for me or anyone to see 15000t ship hopping on the little waves like little cayack in hurricane.
So it's cool.. If it gets the distance you want(your mod) GREAT..
Any mod that gets released no matter how dumb, great, realism improved or decreased is one idea, one mod(:D ) that enriches sh3 world..
So, stop ranting with those "maybe I will go" ****..
And return to mr. smith cool talk.. :D

aND please stop with those lectures to people "read the readmes, discuss, not war, blabla bla".. :D Smart enuf guy will know what to do and what to ask.. Lazy guy also.. :rotfl:
But you cannot abandon lost sh(ee)ps and spit on them..

P.S. I got a reply about "usubs decrease speed" that it would be back to square one. I DISSAGREE. If you have problems with turning and speeding(not like now 10 secs from 2 to 15 kts) and dd has the same like in real life = SWEAT, TEARS, CURSING BLASTED LUCK ETC.. It would then be strategy simulation for real. IMO :doh: and maybe I am wrong.. With wind affecting the sea and THEREFOR sail, fuel consumption etc... :doh:

P.S. If you are going to some cruise trip around the world or such, have a nice trip! :up: (internet is everywhere available so don't bulls..t)

Cheers to everyone

ONE MORE THING: I would not like this to be understood as I want to fight with phoenix, or I don't like him. I just disagree with him.. On this matter..
And I think he may have took things a little too serious..


I agree Thomsen must stay Führerbefehl :up:

[wizardmatt]

Just read some of the posts here.. Not all, no, but few..

Have to say, phoenixx, you really are a real tester for snooker skills of thomsen and in times it seems you seem to disturb the concentrating balance of the game.. :doh:
Or the calm lake..

:rotfl:

Yeah, pt, what's that other group? :up:

Kidding, kidding.. :rotfl:

The only problem here is IN MY OPINION is if you take away the speed of the ships, you have to take away the speed of the uboat, otherwise, you are like a new line of xxxiii(would go out 1948) in this game..

p.s. wizardmatt, a late responsefrom me! boooooooooooo!
Forza ferrari, that welsh guy in thomsens sportis the best(are there any welsh guys, and what is aston villa? :rotfl: (Wayne Rooney, half Irish, half animal :rotfl: , at last 100)

Who are Aston Villa? We are the team who have won more European Cups than Split, Chelsea and Arsenal combined :p
God Save the Queen :rotfl:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

My modding days will be over, and I might spend two or three years without even posting here.

:-?

Should you however want to continue with the mod I have the following to share:

It now seems there're also some big ships there behaving pretty well with their engine power at 10%. ATM I'm chasing this vessel resembling a troopship (these stormy OLCE nights are very dark so it's hard to be positive yet) and the bugger is chugging along pretty fast, definitely at 10kts+ at any rate.

The seas are at least as rough as they were when I reported on the slow-as-molasses medium freighter, so maybe there's something there? Just an uneducated observation, though :ping:

I told you guys zillion of times.

Reducing the engine power doesn't reduce the ship's maximum speed, just increases the time for a ship to accelerate to said maximum speed. If it's 20 kts, the ship will eventually get there, but will take more then half hour.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

MR SMITH! :rotfl:

Without you matrix will not be the same..

Honestly..
Why do you bother with phoenix and such..

I think your mods are improvement to the game.. More less irrelevant..
For instance phoenix says to me there is no need in fixing "WHATS needs no fix".
I dissagree. I think your chips idea is great, because it's lame for me or anyone to see 15000t ship hopping on the little waves like little cayack in hurricane.
So it's cool.. If it gets the distance you want(your mod) GREAT..
Any mod that gets released no matter how dumb, great, realism improved or decreased is one idea, one mod(:D ) that enriches sh3 world..
So, stop ranting with those "maybe I will go" ****..
And return to mr. smith cool talk.. :D

aND please stop with those lectures to people "read the readmes, discuss, not war, blabla bla".. :D Smart enuf guy will know what to do and what to ask.. Lazy guy also.. :rotfl:
But you cannot abandon lost sh(ee)ps and spit on them..

P.S. I got a reply about "usubs decrease speed" that it would be back to square one. I DISSAGREE. If you have problems with turning and speeding(not like now 10 secs from 2 to 15 kts) and dd has the same like in real life = SWEAT, TEARS, CURSING BLASTED LUCK ETC.. It would then be strategy simulation for real. IMO :doh: and maybe I am wrong.. With wind affecting the sea and THEREFOR sail, fuel consumption etc... :doh:

P.S. If you are going to some cruise trip around the world or such, have a nice trip! :up: (internet is everywhere available so don't bulls..t)

Cheers to everyone

ONE MORE THING: I would not like this to be understood as I want to fight with phoenix, or I don't like him. I just disagree with him.. On this matter..
And I think he may have took things a little too serious..

My journey has nothing to do with being pissed off at someone. (and I'm not).

Has to do with something I had planned for long time, and I feel the time has come.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134126

[h.sie]

does anyone know how to remote control a merchant by script for example. any ideas? i plan to do some researches, if ships really reach their max speed despite drastically reduced engine power. if so, realistic maneuverability can be modeled as PT did.

if so, the aqua-dynamic ship model used within sh3 does not correspond with physics (in RL then there would be no need for strong machines if ships could reach their desired speed with much weaker engines.)

[h.sie]

i want to have them at 0kn and then at a defined time (trigger) i want them to accelerate to max. speed.

[h.sie]

Oh ok, well you can put a ship dead stopped in the editor and set its first waypoint to its max speed, so you just have to start timing as the mission starts ? Maybe there's others ways to do it, I'm not too savvy with the mission editor except placing units & basic waypoints.

worth to try it out, thank you. i didn't know that one can assign a speed to a waypoint....but i will see......

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Guys, use your brain. :damn:

Set the uboat engine power to 10% of it's original power and go for a ride.

I already did it. And as I said before, the max speed doesn't change, just the time to get there.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Guys, use your brain. :damn:

Set the uboat engine power to 10% of it's original power and go for a ride.

I already did it. And as I said before, the max speed doesn't change, just the time to get there.

:up:
Yeah and if you use yours you'll notice that with your combination of low power + high drag a ship doing 15 knots will slow down to a mere 5 as soon as it starts zigzaging, compared to 10 without your mod.


BUT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!!!

I still don't understand what you want to fix!

[Madox58]

Oh ok, well you can put a ship dead stopped in the editor and set its first waypoint to its max speed, so you just have to start timing as the mission starts ? Maybe there's others ways to do it, I'm not too savvy with the mission editor except placing units & basic waypoints.

worth to try it out, thank you. i didn't know that one can assign a speed to a waypoint....but i will see......

You can do some neat stuff with mission Editor.
A usually use it to do Stunt flying for aircraft!
I'll script 5 aircraft flying in a wedge and have them increase speed and
start a split as they climb!

It's awesome to watch!
Sometimes I add Smoke in different colors just
for the thrill!
FPS really takes a hit but it's so Danged COOL!!

Here's an early example of Stunt Flying.
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/?action=view&current=Fly_By.flv

[Sag75]

Guys, use your brain. :damn:

Set the uboat engine power to 10% of it's original power and go for a ride.

I already did it. And as I said before, the max speed doesn't change, just the time to get there.

:up:
Yeah and if you use yours you'll notice that with your combination of low power + high drag a ship doing 15 knots will slow down to a mere 5 as soon as it starts zigzaging, compared to 10 without your mod.


BUT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!!!

I still don't understand what you want to fix!


the acceleration ability "linked" to the moment of inertia and not to the drag.

in other words,

if you get lower the power and increase the drag, you get a slower acceleration ability due to low power and high drag effect.

An other way to reach this, is mantaining the stock power, and increase the inertia momentum (that I don't know where is and if exists in sh3!). In this way you will have the same effect on take down the acceleration ability, but without a so big slow down effect during the turning.

[h.sie]

it is obvious to use an uboat for testing, but I'm not sure wheather freighters and uboats use the same implementation of aqua-dynamic model. sh3 uses so many inaccurate simplifications.....being pedantic and perfectionist, I prefer to do my testing with merchants to avoid unknown effects that falsify my results.

thanks, privateer. but my mission editor is hard to use (buggy?). if i move the mouse to a certain point (e.g. x=20, y=20) in order to place a ship at that position, the editor places the ship far away, at x=60, y=60. and it's very hard to mark units in order to change their properties.

[Lucky Starr]

.......but my mission editor is hard to use (buggy?). if i move the mouse to a certain point (e.g. x=20, y=20) in order to place a ship at that position, the editor places the ship far away, at x=60, y=60. and it's very hard to mark units in order to change their properties.

Servus h.sie!

Do you use the hi-res-fix (d3d9.dll)?? If yes, you had to rename this file temporarely and than start the mission-editor. Because hi-res-fix and mission editor don't like each ohter. :oops:

Hope this helps.

[h.sie]

Sag wrote: "An other way to reach this, is mantaining the stock power, and increase the inertia momentum (that I don't know where is and if exists in sh3!). In this way you will have the same effect on take down the acceleration ability, but without a so big slow down effect during the turning."

yep. the moment of inertia is proportional to the mass (if the mass is concentrated in one single point). one needs to enlarge the mass in order to get a higher moment of inertia and a lower acceleration. F(orce) = m(ass) * a(cceleration), so that

a = F/m.

One can edit the ships mass using S3D, but I'm afraid of unexpected side-effects....if I remember right, the mass is defined a) in the cfg-file of the ships and b) in the sim-file. I guess that the mass in the cfg-file is used for the recognition manual only and has no physicalic effect, while the mass in the .sim-file is used for the physicalic behaviour of the ship model. but I'm not sure, because I'm not a modder. I only want to have an halfway "realistic" game.

[h.sie]

Do you use the hi-res-fix (d3d9.dll)?? If yes, you had to rename this file temporarely and than start the mission-editor. Because hi-res-fix and mission editor don't like each ohter. :oops:

Hope this helps.
Yes, I use it. Thank you very much for your help. (This is a really cool forum.) One gets so much help. ...... wow. so many competent people here. what about programming an own subsim-simulator instead of debugging an buggy commercial game? (but without me, I program 8 hrs/day.)

[h.sie]

hi mikhayl:

I agree. I've stopped programming my tool which automatically sets values in the sim-files, because there must be research BEFORE programming. i have no experience with ships, except my rudder boat for fishing purposes, but according to my "feeling", i would estimate, that a speed reduction from 15 to 10-12knots would be okay when zigzagging.

a friend of mine is commander of a (real) frigate. i meet him next week and i'll ask him about that problem. in the next time, i will play around with the params (mass, drag, eng_power etc.) in the unit_Ship section of the sim-files for diffferent ship types. perhaps we could exchange experiences. but i don't know if it's polite to use this thread for that?

h.sie

[Sag75]

Hi to all, I tried to modify the mass of U-boat. I found very strange behaviours.

If I increase 10fold the U-boat surface desplacement, the Uboat floats on sea surface!
If I decrease 10fold the U-boat surface desplacement, the U-boat sink as a rock!
But, if I increase the U-boat mass (the vaule before surface/immerged nodes), the boat goes down as a rock!

And there isn't any value apparently linked to inertia momentum. SH3 plays with engine power and xyz drug coefficients, but probably the mass is linked only to floating properties..:hmm:

it's weird. Probably U-boats are not usefull for this kind of tests..

[Hitman]

You can do some neat stuff with mission Editor.
A usually use it to do Stunt flying for aircraft!
I'll script 5 aircraft flying in a wedge and have them increase speed and
start a split as they climb!

It's awesome to watch!
Sometimes I add Smoke in different colors just
for the thrill!
FPS really takes a hit but it's so Danged COOL!!

Here's an early example of Stunt Flying.
http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n...ent=Fly_By.flv

Wow, "GWX 3: Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" is coming :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

1. The rudder drag is related to how fast the ship will turn, and have almost nothing to do with how much speed will the vessel lose while turning.

2. A ship like a battleship, with a lot more power-per-ton coeficient than a merchant, with 3 propellers instead of one as a merchant, and with a lot better hull for speed, while turning would likely lose half of it's speed. I have those numbers. Now, are you telling me that a big tanker, doing 15kts, (which is a great speed for a tanker, but would be impossible while turning), and dropping to 5kts while zig-zaguing is absurdly irrealistic? You said yourself that you don't know what would be the accurate speed for a ship like that in conditions like that, so why are you questioning so hard about realism?

3. The rudder drag for merchants is set at 0,02. If you decreases that, the ship turning radius will become VERY large, there goes a lot of irrealism. I tested a lot this parameter, 0,02 is the smallest value you can imput on merchants. The stock value/gwx value would be 0,03.

4. You guys are talking beautiful maths, but sh3 don't allow us to party around with zillion values. If you open ship.sim in s3d, you'll see about 20 values, and only 2 of them are related to how much speed ships will lose while turning.

a) the engine power: sure, increasing the engine power to a kazillion would make the ships mantain the same speed while turning, but also would make them behave like a jet-fighter. The engine power as it is right now is the closest to realistic accelerating we can have.

b) the drag left-right: the ammount of drag between the hull and the water when moving left-right. In other words, the ammount of friction between the hull and the large ammount of water that is deslocated while turning, cos the ship is "pushing" tons and tons of water out of the way when turning. Remember, a ship does not turn like a car, front first cutting the water and the rear follows. Nope. The front does nothing, the rear pushes left or right, moving zillion tons of water out of the way, changing the heading. The value in my mod is 0,75. If you decrease that, yes, the ships will start to turn a little bit faster, but this is also the value that controls the "bobbing", so if decreased the ships would be back as gwx, behaving like rubber ducks in a bathub. Pointless.

Now, what can be done to improve the ship's maneuverability while turning, that would not be realism killer?

Increase the engine power by 100%. Yes, doubling the value.

This mod took the engine power and reduced to 10%. Now if you double it, you'll have about 20%. And 20% will not ruin too much their acceleration and breaking abilities, and will improve their speed while turning.

Why?

Simple, they will have more engine power, and that engine power will be able to sustain more speed while turning, the relation between power/drag will be bigger.

While hasn't it been done already?

I'm waiting h.sie finish his tool so I don't have to manually change 200 ships.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi to all, I tried to modify the mass of U-boat. I found very strange behaviours.

If I increase 10fold the U-boat surface desplacement, the Uboat floats on sea surface!
If I decrease 10fold the U-boat surface desplacement, the U-boat sink as a rock!
But, if I increase the U-boat mass (the vaule before surface/immerged nodes), the boat goes down as a rock!

And there isn't any value apparently linked to inertia momentum. SH3 plays with engine power and xyz drug coefficients, but probably the mass is linked only to floating properties..:hmm:

it's weird. Probably U-boats are not usefull for this kind of tests..

If you increase 10 tons in the displacement, you also have to increase 10 tons in the mass. Otherwise, the uboat becomes umbalanced and sinks, or floats.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Additional info:

The merchants have a particular maneuverability. Destroyers have another. Escorts also are different from destroyers and merchants. Battleships too.

So you cannot just find a right value for one ship and apply to all the others.

And no, I don't mind this kind of discussion in my thread. It's actually healthy. Like I said before, any kind of feedback can be constructive for the next update.

And like I said so many times, none of my mods are finished. They are constantly upgrading, based on feedback and discussions like this.

:up:

[Sag75]

"If you increase 10 tons in the displacement, you also have to increase 10 tons in the mass. Otherwise, the uboat becomes umbalanced and sinks, or floats."


thanks, I'll test changing both :up:

[h.sie]

I ve made a test scenario, in which a troup transporter suddenly had to accelerate from 1kn to its max. speed of 17kn. wind: 15m/s comes from ahead.

with eng_power = 10000 (original value) it accelerated to 17kn in a too short time.

with eng_power = 1000 (10% value from PT) it accelerated slowly, but it did reach 17kn a long time later - as desired!!!

i cannot believe that. in my opinion this is impossible in real life, because the machines have to overpower the speed-proportional resistance of the water. I'm sure, that in RL an engine with only 10% power can never reach the same max. speed as a 100% power engine (this is only possible in an ideal system without resistance). if weak engines lead to the same speed, there would be no need for strong and expensive machines.

but in sh3 it seems to work, perhaps because of a very simple physical model implementation.

[Sag75]

I ve made a test scenario, in which a troup transporter suddenly had to accelerate from 1kn to its max. speed of 17kn. wind: 15m/s comes from ahead.

with eng_power = 10000 (original value) it accelerated to 17kn in a too short time.

with eng_power = 1000 (10% value from PT) it accelerated slowly, but it did reach 17kn a long time later - as desired!!!

i cannot believe that. in my opinion this is impossible in real life, because the machines have to overpower the speed-proportional resistance of the water. I'm sure, that in RL an engine with only 10% power can never reach the same max. speed as a 100% power engine (this is only possible in an ideal system without resistance). if weak engines lead to the same speed, there would be no need for strong and expensive machines.

but in sh3 it seems to work, perhaps because of a very simple physical model implementation.


unbelievable.. I'm agree with you about RL! but that is in SH3! thank you for your experiment that give us the confirmation that drag in SH3 behaves in a different way by RL!

So... just a thought :hmm: .. is drag in SH3 more like an inertia momentum :huh:??

..and probably the SH3 water has not friction!! (I can stop the boat by stopping the engines probably because of drag value assigned to my boat, and not by the effect of a water value :hmm: ...?)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I told you guys about a zillion times, but you had to go test yourselves. Now you're beggining to understand the problems I'm facing.


Sorry but that's wrong. The difference between 5 and 10 knots is not what I would call "almost nothing". With an important rudder drag the rudder acts like a hydrobrake when the ship starts turning, so yes for the second part you're right, you would need more power to overcome that "brake".
I may not have historical data but hey, if you're trying to evade torpedoes common sense surely doesn't dictate that you should slow down to a crawl :D

Btw I'd be curious to know your source on a battleship losing half its speed because of it turning, that contradicts the few things I've read on the subject :hmm:


But you're not understanding. You cannot change the rudder drag, cos otherwise the ship won't turn. If a ship turning radius is 1 mile with 0,02, it will be 2 miles with 0,01.

The data is somewhere on this thread...

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I do understand, stop thinking you're the only guy with a brain ;)
In the post you quote I say that we need more power to overcome the problem, not less drag on the rudder. It would give realistic zigzags but unrealistic turning radius (Titanic had a turning radius of about 700m it seems, so the game figures look enough to me).

About the data you're talking about, if you care reading it you'll see that it contradicts your claim of "half of the total speed loss", so yet again, we need more power, or wholy different formulas :lol:

When I say half, it's a gross value. It's not exactly half, but close to that.

Yes, 20% of engine power is what we need, and I had it planned for two weeks already. Just don't have the time to do it hand ship by ship. :damn:

[Sag75]

I GOT IT!!

I increased the mass and surfaced/submerged desplacement by 10fold of U-boat VIIb.

Results.

-Stock (default) values:

1)
0kts->17kts in 30" , 300m run
during acceleration to max speed (ahead flank), the boat reaches 7kts in 4", 10kts in 6", 17kts in 30".

2)
17kts->0kts in 6'
during decelaration (engines stopped), the speed drops at 10kts in 20", 5kts in 1', 0kts in 6'.


-10fold mass and desplacement increase:

1)
0kts->17kts in 5' , 3000m run!
during acceleration to flank speed, the boat was at 7kts in 20", 10kts in 50", 17kts in 5'.

2)
17kts->0kts in 30' , 4500m run!
during deceleration (engines stopped) the speed drops to 10kts in 3'30", 5kts in 10', 1kts in 30'.


Moreover I looked into 12kts wind sea. The 10fold mass U-boat was feeling more heavy. Anyway, She was taking up to 10minutes to submerge!!

No modifications in turning rate/radius observed!


Conclusions.
The mass/desplacement appears linked to inertia in SH3, and appears have an heavy effect on acceleration/deceleration behaviour and a minor effect on pitch/roll stability.

I would suggest to increase the ships mass/despacement to change the acceleration/deceleration properties instead of modify the engine power (that might be increased close to the default value).

[Philipp_Thomsen]

:shifty:

Follow me...

Mass 10, engine power 2. Mass/Engine = 5.
Mass 100, engine power 20. Mass/Engine = 5.

So what's your point?

[Sag75]

Hi PT, yes you are right,

but just consider this: in the mod, the acceleration is slow down acting on engines power. But this has a somewhat effect on ship speed: for instance I played in the single mission Bismark, and all battleships were cruising at 3kts! I encountered the Aquitania and She was travelling at 3 kts near Gibraltar in heavy sea!

In other words, an engine power set at 2 (your example) could not have enough propeller torque to permitt the ship cruising in some sea state!


So, in order to slow down the sport-car acceleration and to permit a ship to decrease slowly the speed, (but without penalizing other characteristics like propeller torque) it might be better arise the engine power to default value and increase a lot the mass.

(probably in SH3 1kg is not modelled as 1kg! I mean, a 10.000ton ship maybe is handled in SH3 lika a 2000ton, even if the .sim value is 10.000!)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

You're still not getting it.

Increase the ship mass and engine power will result in the same problem.

Engine power 10 and mass 10.000 is the same as engine power 1.000 and mass 10.000.000. All the maneuverability and sailing behavior will be the same. Can you see?

Like a car with 500kg and 80hp, and a truck with 5.000kg and a 800hp engine, they will have the same hp-per-ton constant.

Reduce the engine power or increase the ship mass is exactly the same thing.

:up:

[Sag75]

I see..

but I meant:

we have eng_power 10 and mass 1.000 (ratio 1:100)?

okay, let have eng_power 100 and mass 100.000! (ratio 1:1000). So we will have nice turns and slow accelerations/decelerations.

Get the mass higher produce other effects than get lower the power.

In fact, my extra massive U-boat was able to stop after 4,5km after I stopped the engines! If I attempt to reduce the power, I'm not able to have this such of stopping length!!

[h.sie]

Hi Sag,

interesting results. but what about underwater behaviour of the boat with a 10-fold mass and displacement? what happens when it has a leckage and water comes in? is the boat still able to surface? are 10 minutes to submerge realistic? it's a little bit long, i think.....i'm afraid of the side-effects, especially for uboats.

at a first glance, reducing eng_power to 10-20% of it's original value, as PT does, seems okay for me. perhaps, increasing mass/displacement is equiavalent to that? but there still remains the behaviour while zig-zagging (see Mikhayls posts). i think there has to be some research to see, how real ships behave in that situation and what is the best way: decreasing eng_power or increasing mass/displacement. we have plenty of time for that.

[h.sie]

Yes, 20% of engine power is what we need, and I had it planned for two weeks already. Just don't have the time to do it hand ship by ship. :damn:
in 2 weeks my program is ready (with 80% propability) and can do the job for all ships with one mouseclick. one only has to choose the Sea-Folder of SH3 and the result will be a JSGME-ready folder-structure with the modificated sim-files. there can be made modification rules for each value in unit_Ship, depending on the UnitType (0=Patrol. 7=Destroyer Escort 103 = Tanker or something like that). contact me, if you don't want to make the changes by hand. and don't be afraid: it's still ThomsensShips-Mod. I'm only interested in a realistic game. Besides that, I will do own researches......

[asanovic7]

I read through that supertramp thread, thomsen.. :D I am writting an answer here because.. It's easier here..
Say, you couldn't pick some "wil country like tibet or Australia"? But america...
Also, I read deepiron's advices.. And other..
LOL, thomsen, I really didn't know you are such a romantic adventuristic soul :up:

If you have a visa, 6 months whatever, find a job in usa.. and you are good.. FOR A tourist.. I don't know how is it right now, but my friend went there a year ago, been for 4-5 months, worked there, used a flat with 5 others, earned enuf money for sightseeing and had a fun.. From his telling, it is not so scary.. But then again he went there with 1-2 people..
Canada must be even easier than usa.. If you can get in.. and stay in..
BUT how come you can move from a place like BRASIL, DAMMIT, to a place like Canada!?!? Soccer left out for snooker!?!? Who kidnapped the real thomsen? There must have been one? aliens?
:rotfl: It's not like I don't like Canada(blame canada for everything, some would say).. But how can you go from sunny atmosphere to snow and police horsemen??
It's Canada you are moving into.. :rotfl:

You, thomsen, must be on drugs.. :rotfl:

And you say stufff like "People work to earn money to pay bills, and have children to perpetuate the mankind. In my head this is freaking redundant!"? And go to Canada??
:rotfl:
Damn, man, go to madagascar or south africa or some other wil country if you are talking stuff like that.. :D
RDP will shurely tell you that moving to canada is not a wise idea :rotfl:

P.S. Wizardmatt! Aston Villa?? More EURO cups than Hajduk, Chelsea and Arsenal? Let me see.. 0 1/2 1/2.. Probably, but Hajduk had a bad luck in past to meet Ajax, St.Etienne and PSV in their peaks.. ;)
FREEDOOM!!!!!!! ;))))

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I see..

but I meant:

we have eng_power 10 and mass 1.000 (ratio 1:100)?

okay, let have eng_power 100 and mass 100.000! (ratio 1:1000). So we will have nice turns and slow accelerations/decelerations.

Get the mass higher produce other effects than get lower the power.

In fact, my extra massive U-boat was able to stop after 4,5km after I stopped the engines! If I attempt to reduce the power, I'm not able to have this such of stopping length!!

You still don't understand.

The weight of the ship is not important. The important is the power-weith ratio.

Before (GWX) it was 1:1000, and I changed to 1:100, and now you want to make it go back to 1:1000, so basically you would be going back to gwx's patter.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I read through that supertramp thread, thomsen.. :D I am writting an answer here because.. It's easier here..
Say, you couldn't pick some "wil country like tibet or Australia"? But america...
Also, I read deepiron's advices.. And other..
LOL, thomsen, I really didn't know you are such a romantic adventuristic soul :up:

If you have a visa, 6 months whatever, find a job in usa.. and you are good.. FOR A tourist.. I don't know how is it right now, but my friend went there a year ago, been for 4-5 months, worked there, used a flat with 5 others, earned enuf money for sightseeing and had a fun.. From his telling, it is not so scary.. But then again he went there with 1-2 people..
Canada must be even easier than usa.. If you can get in.. and stay in..
BUT how come you can move from a place like BRASIL, DAMMIT, to a place like Canada!?!? Soccer left out for snooker!?!? Who kidnapped the real thomsen? There must have been one? aliens?
:rotfl: It's not like I don't like Canada(blame canada for everything, some would say).. But how can you go from sunny atmosphere to snow and police horsemen??
It's Canada you are moving into.. :rotfl:

You, thomsen, must be on drugs.. :rotfl:

And you say stufff like "People work to earn money to pay bills, and have children to perpetuate the mankind. In my head this is freaking redundant!"? And go to Canada??
:rotfl:
Damn, man, go to madagascar or south africa or some other wil country if you are talking stuff like that.. :D
RDP will shurely tell you that moving to canada is not a wise idea :rotfl:

P.S. Wizardmatt! Aston Villa?? More EURO cups than Hajduk, Chelsea and Arsenal? Let me see.. 0 1/2 1/2.. Probably, but Hajduk had a bad luck in past to meet Ajax, St.Etienne and PSV in their peaks.. ;)
FREEDOOM!!!!!!! ;))))

Simple...

I HATE HEAT! I LOVE COLD!
I'm polish decendent... white skin.

I can't stand one more year in this place... I'm literally melting.

I want to live in a place where the hottest day is around 10ºC.

[Sag75]

interesting results. but what about underwater behaviour of the boat with a 10-fold mass and displacement? what happens when it has a leckage and water comes in? is the boat still able to surface? are 10 minutes to submerge realistic? it's a little bit long, i think.....i'm afraid of the side-effects, especially for uboats.

she was an underwater massive thing, too! Anyway, it was only a test to see the mass impact on sailing behaviour. Yes the boat was able to get again on surface, but very slowly, and depth changes were slow too! It's not realistic at all. I rammed a steam cargo: she had some explosions on the deck, but without sinking.

H.sie, thank you for your program, it will be cool!


About PT:
you convinced me, my only point was about ship deceleration when engines are stopped or back full. I guess a massive ship has a better deceleration in SH3 water, instead of keeping mass as it is and lower the engine: a mass increasing changes the mass/water_drag ratio.

PS. do you need cold? meet the Canada: now there are -15°C here where I live!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

interesting results. but what about underwater behaviour of the boat with a 10-fold mass and displacement? what happens when it has a leckage and water comes in? is the boat still able to surface? are 10 minutes to submerge realistic? it's a little bit long, i think.....i'm afraid of the side-effects, especially for uboats.

she was an underwater massive thing, too! Anyway, it was only a test to see the mass impact on sailing behaviour. Yes the boat was able to get again on surface, but very slowly, and depth changes were slow too! It's not realistic at all. I rammed a steam cargo: she had some explosions on the deck, but without sinking.

H.sie, thank you for your program, it will be cool!


About PT:
you convinced me, my only point was about ship deceleration when engines are stopped or back full. I guess a massive ship has a better deceleration in SH3 water, instead of keeping mass as it is and lower the engine: a mass increasing changes the mass/water_drag ratio.

PS. do you need cold? meet the Canada: now there are -15°C here where I live!!

-15????

SWEET!!! :D

[Sag75]

last Jenuary, for one week, we had -33°C during the night and -29°C during the day!! :yep:

the spring normally arrives in May, and usually the summer temperature is below +25°C here in Alberta.

[wizardmatt]

I read through that supertramp thread, thomsen.. :D I am writting an answer here because.. It's easier here..
Say, you couldn't pick some "wil country like tibet or Australia"? But america...
Also, I read deepiron's advices.. And other..
LOL, thomsen, I really didn't know you are such a romantic adventuristic soul :up:

If you have a visa, 6 months whatever, find a job in usa.. and you are good.. FOR A tourist.. I don't know how is it right now, but my friend went there a year ago, been for 4-5 months, worked there, used a flat with 5 others, earned enuf money for sightseeing and had a fun.. From his telling, it is not so scary.. But then again he went there with 1-2 people..
Canada must be even easier than usa.. If you can get in.. and stay in..
BUT how come you can move from a place like BRASIL, DAMMIT, to a place like Canada!?!? Soccer left out for snooker!?!? Who kidnapped the real thomsen? There must have been one? aliens?
:rotfl: It's not like I don't like Canada(blame canada for everything, some would say).. But how can you go from sunny atmosphere to snow and police horsemen??
It's Canada you are moving into.. :rotfl:

You, thomsen, must be on drugs.. :rotfl:

And you say stufff like "People work to earn money to pay bills, and have children to perpetuate the mankind. In my head this is freaking redundant!"? And go to Canada??
:rotfl:
Damn, man, go to madagascar or south africa or some other wil country if you are talking stuff like that.. :D
RDP will shurely tell you that moving to canada is not a wise idea :rotfl:

P.S. Wizardmatt! Aston Villa?? More EURO cups than Hajduk, Chelsea and Arsenal? Let me see.. 0 1/2 1/2.. Probably, but Hajduk had a bad luck in past to meet Ajax, St.Etienne and PSV in their peaks.. ;)
FREEDOOM!!!!!!! ;))))

"Freedoom"? Free-doom. hmmmm........is that a new word? :p :rotfl:

[Sag75]

for Asanovic7: there are not police horsemen here... The Mounted Police is in high-tech vehicles nowdays! Canada offers a very beutifull nature, have you never been on canadian Rocky Mountains? in Ontario? Nova Scotia? Newfoundland?? The canadian cities are quiet, they haven't at all that such of crime that you can see in US cities!! Are you scared by extreme cold? here you have all goods to fight it!

for PT: from Italy it's pretty easy enjoy a work into Canada by Canadian Embassy. I don't know from the Brazil, but you can get informations about. Just contact your Canadian Embassy in your Country! Or, try in northern Europe.. Norway? Sveden? They can speak english very well..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Thanks for all the info! I'm planning on going next year.

How about I pay you a visit? :hmm:

[Madox58]

Canada is a beautiful Country!
I live roughly 2 hours south of Canada and have been there many times.
And I have found the Canadians to be just as friendly as
the people around my home area.

It just depends on what part of the U.S.A. you go to that you see
the most common portrait that is concieved by most of the World.

Stay out of the Biggest Cities?
And if you have an accent?

You'd be over run with Women,
Everybody would want to talk to you,
and you'd be hard pressed to pay for a drink!!
:rock:

[onelifecrisis]

Canada is a beautiful Country!

:yep:

It just depends on what part of the U.S.A. you go to that you see
the most common portrait that is concieved by most of the World.

Stay out of the Biggest Cities?

Hmm. I found Chicago to be very friendly. But maybe that's cos of all the "Irish" people there. :hmm:

And if you have an accent?

You'd be over run with Women

:yep: :yep: :D :rock:

[Madox58]

Chicago is probably the friendliest Big City I've been to here.
And I have been in them all!

Houston is really cool also!!
Heck!
The Grey Wolves stumbled all over that place and had a GREAT Time!
:rock:
Most of the Cities in Arizona are really fun and easy going.
Any Major city in Alaska is cool.

And Hawaii?
OMG!
I'd move there in a heart beat!

Some of the Southern States can be a bit 'off'.
If they hear a Northern 'Twang'.

But for the most part?
The U.S.
Just like other Countries?
Is a collection of simple people that have nothing to do
with what the Government of the U.S. carries on
with in other Countries.

Just as Your Government does things that you don't like,
and can't control?

There be us!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for...

peace...

a place with traffic, no big buildings, no bunch of people...

A place where I can think, where I can have tranquility.

I was considering Halifax, but I saw a documentary about the city and seems like it's turn into a big city, huge buildings and all...

Maybe I need to go a little more north...

[ReallyDedPoet]

I was considering Halifax, but I saw a documentary about the city and seems like it's turn into a big city, huge buildings and all...


Halifax is not that big PT, trust me on that one.

Nova Scotia is a great Province, lots of places to get away. If you get a chance, check out the Cabot Trail ( in Cape Breton ) on the Web , an amazing place with spectacular views of the Atlantic Ocean.


RDP

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I was considering Halifax, but I saw a documentary about the city and seems like it's turn into a big city, huge buildings and all...


Halifax is not that big PT, trust me on that one.

Nova Scotia is a great Province, lots of places to get away. If you get a chance, check out the Cabot Trail ( in Cape Breton ) on the Web , an amazing place with spectacular views of the Atlantic Ocean.


RDP

Thanks for the tip, I'll surely take a research on that one!

How great would be to find somewhere like the county in lord of the rings... I would live until my last breath there, simple life... :rock:

[Sag75]

...a remote castle in Scottish Highlands?


do you like Scotch Whisky?

[anzacmick]

dont come to australia.....
its hot dry & dusty.....:sunny: there are small things here that can kill u...:rock:
theres is no beer women or fun...the beaches suck....full of noahs arks (sharks)
some wonder how australians make it past their teen years....

and the people are very unfriendly:shifty: .... so `koff and go elsewhere:rotfl:

luv mick;)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Before I leave, I must tell you.

Don't EVER buy a wireless rat.
Once it starts to run out of battery...
It's just a kick in the nutz.

[asanovic7]

I see I am overrun.. :rotfl:

I would be glad to burn in the hot sun whole day long.. :rotfl:
So that my true lazy being comes out.. :rotfl:
I don't like the damn snow or the cold.. Like now here in Croatia..

I guess people here didin't watch south park or other comedy stuff.. :rotfl:

OH CANADA
WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE!!!
:up:

p.s. wizardmatt, blast you!! :rotfl:

[mengle]

I see I am overrun.. :rotfl:

I would be glad to burn in the hot sun whole day long.. :rotfl:
So that my true lazy being comes out.. :rotfl:
I don't like the damn snow or the cold.. Like now here in Croatia..

I guess people here didin't watch south park or other comedy stuff.. :rotfl:

OH CANADA
WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE!!!
:up:

p.s. wizardmatt, blast you!! :rotfl:

In Belgium there is always rain and rain, so give me the snow instead:yep:

[Sag75]

In Vancouver it's known the same..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

In Vancouver it's known the same..

So you spent the night in bangkok??? :lol:

[kiwikapitan]

I was considering Halifax, but I saw a documentary about the city and seems like it's turn into a big city, huge buildings and all...

Halifax is not that big PT, trust me on that one.

Nova Scotia is a great Province, lots of places to get away. If you get a chance, check out the Cabot Trail ( in Cape Breton ) on the Web , an amazing place with spectacular views of the Atlantic Ocean.


RDP
Thanks for the tip, I'll surely take a research on that one!

How great would be to find somewhere like the county in lord of the rings... I would live until my last breath there, simple life... :rock:
Yeah come here PT. A bit small maybe but some of the best scenics in the world!! :smug:

Best of luck wherever you go mate. :up:

I need a new signature!

[Sag75]

OH GOD! HORRIBLE! Moderators! please change that!!




thanks......

[Philipp_Thomsen]

OH GOD! HORRIBLE! Moderators! please change that!!




thanks......

What is horrible?

[msalama]

What is horrible?

His wild night in Bankok was apparently too much to digest... :rotfl:

[Sag75]

...yeah.... :huh:

[nikbear]

I'm finding with this mod that in servere weather that ships hardly move,On my last patrol I've come across ships making less than 2knts and its making them sitting ducks:hmm:The same problem also happens in convoys, shoot up a couple of ships is making the rest of the convoy grind to a holt ,which then makes them back up and makes them easy to hit:hmm:Don't get me wrong,you are moving in the right direction,I just think it needs more work:up::rock::yep:

[Sag75]

I'm finding with this mod that in servere weather that ships hardly move,On my last patrol I've come across ships making less than 2knts and its making them sitting ducks:hmm:The same problem also happens in convoys, shoot up a couple of ships is making the rest of the convoy grind to a holt ,which then makes them back up and makes them easy to hit:hmm:Don't get me wrong,you are moving in the right direction,I just think it needs more work:up::rock::yep:

I'm agree.. :ping:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yes yes yes yes... I know!

1. Ships halt cos if one stop, all stop. They follow the ship ahead.

2. The fix for all these problems have already emerged, it's all about multiplying by 3 the ammount of actual engine power. Just need time to do it, or help from anybody with avaliable time. Pretty easy job.

[Sag75]

sorry PT! they're just observations :up:

[nikbear]

And I'm able to do any testing:up:you can do it PT;):rock::rock:

[h.sie]

hi PT,

my program is ready (pre-alpha version) and it could do the job for you. I have GWX 2.1 installed - this would be the basis for the modification.

you just have to determine the rules, e.g.

eng_power = 30% of orig value

drag = 0.02 for UnitType 100, 101, 102
drag = 0.03 for UnitType 11, 12, 13 and so on.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

hi PT,

my program is ready (pre-alpha version) and it could do the job for you. I have GWX 2.1 installed - this would be the basis for the modification.

you just have to determine the rules, e.g.

eng_power = 30% of orig value

drag = 0.02 for UnitType 100, 101, 102
drag = 0.03 for UnitType 11, 12, 13 and so on.

h.sie

GREAT! :rock:

That's what I've been waiting for.

The mod is great all around already, we just need to fix the eng_power.

Try this: Apply the changes in my last mod version, add 300% to the eng_power to ALL ships.

300% should multiply by 3 times the actuall amount. So, if a ship has 2000 of eng_power with chips v2.0, after the modification it should have 6000.

Do it and let's upload the file for people start beta-testing!

You're the man, H.sie! :up:

[h.sie]

hi pt,

the problem is, that your mod V2 has some bugs and did not reduce eng_power to 10% for all ships. some ships (e.g. a passenger ship) remained at 100% and NBB_Nelson at 30% (see a former posting from me). if i apply 300% to all now, some ships will have more power than they had in stock sh3. the little bugs of your V2 will remain and propagate.

i'm used to do precise work and i strongly recommend to use a clean GWX2.1 as the basis of your new version and to define new rules for the modification. no old bugs can remain this way and for me it's much easier to do, because I don't have to debug your V2 prior to run my program on it.

if you don't like my idea, I have to debug your mod manually, which will take time and the time-advantage of my program is gone.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

hi pt,

the problem is, that your mod V2 has some bugs and did not reduce eng_power to 10% for all ships. some ships (e.g. a passenger ship) remained at 100% and NBB_Nelson at 30% (see a former posting from me). if i apply 300% to all now, some ships will have more power than they had in stock sh3. the little bugs of your V2 will remain and propagate.

i'm used to do precise work and i strongly recommend to use a clean GWX2.1 as the basis of your new version and to define new rules for the modification. no old bugs can remain this way and for me it's much easier to do, because I don't have to debug your V2 prior to run my program on it.

if you don't like my idea, I have to debug your mod manually, which will take time and the time-advantage of my program is gone.

h.sie

Your theory is good, but on the practice it's not that easy.

1. If we use stock GWX 2.1 to do the changes, we won't be covering the community ships mod.

2. If we use the current V2, we only need to change one setting, all the others are already ok.

3. No problem with the 30% BB or the few units with 100% engine. The 30% BB was a fix for a low value of gwx, and the 100% engine power units are vessels with very low weight, below 100 tons. If that's the case, we can manually fix them later, since they are few (around 10).

4. If you want to do all ships from square one, you would need to separate all of them manually into 5 groups: Battleships and alikes, destroyers, destroyer escorts, merchants and ships with less them 300 tons. For group one, engine power 30%, rudder drag from 0,03 to 0,025, LR drag 0,75 and UD drag 1,0, and GC 0,1. For the second group, all the same except the rudder drag, which is 0,03. The third group (escorts), same as destroyers, except rudder drag (0,04). For merchants, same as the others, except rudder drag (0,02). For ships with less than 300 tons, no changes what so ever. They are too small, so they can accelerate fast and they pitch and roll a lot.

Now, with all this information, tell me: which is easier? What do you prefer?

It's your tool... You decide.

:up:

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

I think I'll install the community ships mod over GWX2.1. This will be the basis for the mod V3. I don't have to divide the five categories manually, because my program can analyse the UnitType Value (Destroyer, Battleship, Escort) of the .cfg file and it is easy to add functionality to also analyse the tonnage.

Depending on UnitType and Tonnage, your rules will then be executed to the five groups.

Two questions remain:

1) For Battleships and alikes you said: drag from 0.025 to 0.03. Is it okay to take 0.0275 which is the average value of both?

2) In most of your sim-files, mass was set to zero (or was it the displacement value? I don't remember.....). Is that important? If mass=0, SH3 sets mass=displacement. Shall I set mass to zero again for V3 or shall it remain unchanged?

By the way: The next 2 days I'm busy so that I ask for patience. I'll give you the mod, when I'm ready with it so you can test it and make some manual corrections if necessary.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

I think I'll install the community ships mod over GWX2.1. This will be the basis for the mod V3. I don't have to divide the five categories manually, because my program can analyse the UnitType Value (Destroyer, Battleship, Escort) of the .cfg file and it is easy to add functionality to also analyse the tonnage.

Great! :up:

Depending on UnitType and Tonnage, your rules will then be executed to the five groups.

Two questions remain:

1) For Battleships and alikes you said: drag from 0.025 to 0.03. Is it okay to take 0.0275 which is the average value of both?

The normal for GWX/Community ships will be 0,03 for rudder drag of battleships. 0,0275 as you suggest, won't be too different from 0,03, but since battleships have almost the same turning radius as destroyers, sure, you can do that.

2) In most of your sim-files, mass was set to zero (or was it the displacement value? I don't remember.....). Is that important? If mass=0, SH3 sets mass=displacement. Shall I set mass to zero again for V3 or shall it remain unchanged?

That's not a problem. If the displacement is zero, the game uses the mass. If the mass is zero, the game uses the displacement. If you want to insert value in both, both values should be the same, so it's redundant. Just leave it as it is.

By the way: The next 2 days I'm busy so that I ask for patience. I'll give you the mod, when I'm ready with it so you can test it and make some manual corrections if necessary.

Not a problem. It's a huge help you're giving to this community, take all the time you need. :up:

h.sie

Above in colour.

[johan_d]

So, then the Netherlands is the best option to go..

Cold, rainy, nice people.. and ...

[Philipp_Thomsen]

... and FREE SEX IN THE PARKS! :rock:

:rotfl:

[Madox58]

You make a big mistake by averageing units.
:nope:
Find the Happy Point then adjust each unit to match.
Short cutting by AVERAGEING?
That's lazy!
So what your figures should be is,
if reduction by 30%?
Check each ship, reduce by calculated figure.
Then TEST the heck out of it!!
Average will bite you on the naughty parts!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

You make a big mistake by averageing units.
:nope:
Find the Happy Point then adjust each unit to match.
Short cutting by AVERAGEING?
That's lazy!
So what your figures should be is,
if reduction by 30%?
Check each ship, reduce by calculated figure.
Then TEST the heck out of it!!
Average will bite you on the naughty parts!!

Yes, each ship should have it's own settings, including engine power.

But I don't have much time for foreplay... :lol:

[Madox58]

Sicko!
:rotfl:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

:lol:

Besides, you're missing the point here.

GWX already spent a lot of time and research to find the exact amount of engine power for each unit.

All I did was to reduce that value to 30% of the original.

So basically, all ships remain with the right amount of engine power for itself.

I trust GWX's work... those guys never miss! :lol:

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

V3 (beta version) of your mod can be found on my filefront page. I'll delete it after you downloaded it from there. I recommend to test it, because I only checked some values randomly. No errors found. Maybe you want do some changes by hand (NBB Nelson)?

V3 is based on GWX2.1 + Community Ships Mod + your rules.

Included in the mod you find a Log.txt file which contains all changes my program made. All changes took about 2 seconds. In the future, other mod versions can easily be made from new rules....

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

V3 (beta version) of your mod can be found on my filefront page. I'll delete it after you downloaded it from there. I recommend to test it, because I only checked some values randomly. No errors found. Maybe you want do some changes by hand (NBB Nelson)?

V3 is based on GWX2.1 + Community Ships Mod + your rules.

Included in the mod you find a Log.txt file which contains all changes my program made. All changes took about 2 seconds. In the future, other mod versions can easily be made from new rules....

h.sie

Thank you very much!
I'll update this thread right away! :up:

[Klaus_Doldinger]

Downloaded new version. Thanks!

[IFRT-WHUFC]

There's nothing in this mod and there's nothing pertaining to the u-boats! How does this work? (without a U-Boat Folder)?

Only asking!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

There's nothing in this mod and there's nothing pertaining to the u-boats! How does this work? (without a U-Boat Folder)?

Only asking!!

That part is not done yet... wait for 3.1 in a few days! :up:

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

I have a question regarding the Submarine .sim files. shall I take the sim-files from clean GWX2.1 as the basis for your mod or shall I use the sim-files from GWX2.1+Water_Stream_for_Uboats_V4 as the basis??? (I don't know what will happen if I use sim's from Water_Stream and someone uses your Mod but not the Water_Stream mod.)

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

I have a question regarding the Submarine .sim files. shall I take the sim-files from clean GWX2.1 as the basis for your mod or shall I use the sim-files from GWX2.1+Water_Stream_for_Uboats_V4 as the basis??? (I don't know what will happen if I use sim's from Water_Stream and someone uses your Mod but not the Water_Stream mod.)

h.sie

Water stream mod uses .val files, and not .sim files. :up:

Don't change anything except the LR drag and UD drag both to 0,75

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

I have a question regarding the Submarine .sim files. shall I take the sim-files from clean GWX2.1 as the basis for your mod or shall I use the sim-files from GWX2.1+Water_Stream_for_Uboats_V4 as the basis??? (I don't know what will happen if I use sim's from Water_Stream and someone uses your Mod but not the Water_Stream mod.)

h.sie
Water stream mod uses .val files, and not .sim files. :up:

Don't change anything except the LR drag and UD drag both to 0,75

I have Waterstream V4 and it contains .sim files for most of the Uboat-types. Are they redundant or added by mistake??

I read that you won't continue this mod. best wishes for your life and respect for your courage. I hope this mod can be continued.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

I have a question regarding the Submarine .sim files. shall I take the sim-files from clean GWX2.1 as the basis for your mod or shall I use the sim-files from GWX2.1+Water_Stream_for_Uboats_V4 as the basis??? (I don't know what will happen if I use sim's from Water_Stream and someone uses your Mod but not the Water_Stream mod.)

h.sie
Water stream mod uses .val files, and not .sim files. :up:

Don't change anything except the LR drag and UD drag both to 0,75

I have Waterstream V4 and it contains .sim files for most of the Uboat-types. Are they redundant or added by mistake??

I read that you won't continue this mod. best wishes for your life and respect for your courage. I hope this mod can be continued.

Sorry, I had the V3 version, and there was only .val files. I don't know what are the .sim files for in the V4. You would have to compare with the gwx's to know what are they for, what have been changed.

Yes, I stopped modding, but you may still ask me questions, I will help you where I can. This mod can be continued by anyone, including you. That applies to all my mods; They can be continued by anyone.

Best of luck, my friend! You got skill! :up:

[h.sie]

I've just finished ThomsensShipsV3.1.
It can be downloaded from my filefront page.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I've just finished ThomsensShipsV3.1.
It can be downloaded from my filefront page.

Well done!

I suggest you contact RDP and ask him to change the thread's title.
Also, ask him if it's possible to change the control of the thread to you.
:up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

I've just finished ThomsensShipsV3.1.
It can be downloaded from my filefront page.
Well done!

I suggest you contact RDP and ask him to change the thread's title.
Also, ask him if it's possible to change the control of the thread to you.
:up:

Probably the best thing to do would be to start a new one, then close this one with a re-direct link to the new thread. Let me know h.sie what you want to do :yep:


RDP

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Only problem with starting a new one is that all the questions would be re-asked. This thread would have to be consulted everytime.

But whatever H.Sie decides... Not my problem anymore! :lol:

[h.sie]

Hi RDP and PT,

so far, I only have programmed a tool which allows fast & easy changes to the mod in order to make PT's life easier. but the ideas and modification rules (eng_power = 50% and so on) mainly came from PT (and his beta-testing team). so I saw myself with the program only as a helper or assistant and I don't know if I have enough time for testing / online-support and enough knowledge for further development and improvement of this mod. I even do not know, if we are on the right way with it, because I've never played with it - programming my tools and doing other small mods took all my time.

I think, if there is enough interest in a further development, we'll find competent people with knowledge and new ideas to do that. Of course I'll help with my program. but I'm not the successor of PT. at time, I would neither deactivate this thread nor change it's title.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hi RDP and PT,

so far, I only have programmed a tool which allows fast & easy changes to the mod in order to make PT's life easier. but the ideas and modification rules (eng_power = 50% and so on) mainly came from PT (and his beta-testing team). so I saw myself with the program only as a helper or assistant and I don't know if I have enough time for testing / online-support and enough knowledge for further development and improvement of this mod. I even do not know, if we are on the right way with it, because I've never played with it - programming my tools and doing other small mods took all my time.

I think, if there is enough interest in a further development, we'll find competent people with knowledge and new ideas to do that. Of course I'll help with my program. but I'm not the successor of PT. at time, I would neither deactivate this thread nor change it's title.

If you would like I can add what you have here :roll: to the first post.
Let me know.


RDP

[h.sie]

If you would like I can add what you have here :roll: to the first post.
Let me know.
RDP
What I have here? Not sure if I understand correct??

I have:

1) Version V3.1 of PT's Ship Mod on my filefront-page.

2) A program, which I do not want to share, bacause it's been made quick&dirty and only I will be able to use it. No time for supporting it or to write a manual or to make it user-friendly.

3) Instead of sharing the tool, I offer to use it for further modding. If for example one person has tested new modding rules with a few test-ships and thinks to have good (realistic!!!) results, I offer him to mod all the 200-300 ships using the tool based on his new rules. my tool currently can only modify the unit_Ship section of the .sim files

more I do not have.

P.S. perhaps it makes sense to change the title of the thread to V3.1 and to set a link to my filefront-page, perhaps V3.1 cannot be found on PT's FF-page

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Lets make this easier.

Here's the login for my FF page.



Use at will.
:up:

[h.sie]

Lets make this easier.

Here's the login for my FF page.

Use at will.
:up:
I've changed the PW to prevent abuse and I'll put V3.1 on that page, which will stay unchanged until your return ...

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Lets make this easier.

Here's the login for my FF page.


Use at will.
:up:
I've changed the PW to prevent abuse and I'll put V3.1 on that page, which will stay unchanged until your return ...
Like I said, guys. My mods are your mods. Everyone's mods. All for the community.
H.sie found more safe to change the password. If anybody wants to manage it, upload something new, just ask him the password.

If someone decides that it would be fun to hack it and delete everything, go ahead. Have your fun. To each his own.

[ReallyDedPoet]

P.S. perhaps it makes sense to change the title of the thread to V3.1 and to set a link to my filefront-page, perhaps V3.1 cannot be found on PT's FF-page

That's what I meant in my previous post :yep:


RDP

[Dekessey]

Anyone tried this mod with GWX 3.0?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Anyone tried this mod with GWX 3.0?

Working fine at this end.

[timbob]

Anyone tried this mod with GWX 3.0?
Working fine at this end.

Do the comments on the first page of this topic about this mod breaking GWX not apply anymore now GWX 3.0 is out then?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Anyone tried this mod with GWX 3.0?
Working fine at this end.

Do the comments on the first page of this topic about this mod breaking GWX not apply anymore now GWX 3.0 is out then?

It has been fixed on the previous version.

[tater]

I was starting to muck around with SH4 for the very same reasons and found this thread. Awesome work, I'm likely to use a lot of this as the starting point for experiemnts in SH4 (heck, maybe the end point, too, but need to see how the AI behaves before I can makle a call).

[tater]

Was gonna edit, but it's stuill fubar.

What were the 5 edited values?

Sufarced LR, HP, drag and prop-factor under rudder... gc height?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Was gonna edit, but it's stuill fubar.

What were the 5 edited values?

Sufarced LR, HP, drag and prop-factor under rudder... gc height?

Surface LR and UD drag = 0,75
Propulsion to 30% of original value. Ex. 100=33
Rudder from 0,03 to 0,02 (only merchants)
GC Height from *whatever* to 0,1.

:up:

[tater]

Gotcha. I tested IJN Ise with these settings except HP. HP I set to 10%. She still gets to 20 knots in 6 minutes.

That's probably not too far from reality. Iowa was capable of stopping in ~4 minutes from 30 knots (a little over 1nm). That's a crash stop, flank to all back emergency. She certainly could not accelerate as fast as she could stop, either. I'd expect Ise to be slower.

[Webster]

Was gonna edit, but it's stuill fubar.

What were the 5 edited values?

Sufarced LR, HP, drag and prop-factor under rudder... gc height?

Surface LR and UD drag = 0,75
Propulsion to 30% of original value. Ex. 100=33
Rudder from 0,03 to 0,02 (only merchants)
GC Height from *whatever* to 0,1.

:up:

so do you mean we need to use 30% of propulsion (ex. 100=30)

or do you mean we need to use one third or 33% (ex. 100=33)

which is correct? what you said doesnt match the example you gave.

[AH_Thor]

Philipp...are you talking about old/current ships or new ships?

if news...what kind? :)

:salute:

[Castout]

Thank you for making this mod.


Bloody genius we need this mod!:yeah:


Eeer the mod conflicts with water stream mod.....oooh any work around?

[Uber Gruber]

I too would love to have this mod made comaptible with Exhause-WaterStream-Kombi...the exhaust part works, but not the waterstreams.

What do you think Hsie ?

[nikbear]

I'm using this wonderful mod with the exhaust-waterstrean kombi mod and both are working fine,no problems at all:06:what order do you have them installed:hmmm:

[h.sie]

I too would love to have this mod made comaptible with Exhause-WaterStream-Kombi...the exhaust part works, but not the waterstreams.

What do you think Hsie ?

not played sh3 for months, but if i remember correct, it works fine with the combi......

i'll look for it in the future, but it will need time, because currently my job and my ill girl need all my power......

and additionally i'll test, wheather it is more realistic to give the uboats the same propulsion reduction (30% of eng_power) as the merchants.
currently u-boats have 50% of their initial power and merchants 30% power, so that uboats (perhaps) get a little speed advantage in stormy weather compared to merchants.
but i have to do researches if this assumption is correct......

please be patient.

[h.sie]

Although I helped PT to create this mod, I've never played with it. Now I think about to do this. But I'm interested in the opinions and experiences of others, especially of REALISM-FREAKS:

* Do you use this mod?
* Is the bahaviour of the ships more realistic than without the mod?

Thanks.
h.sie

[cemtufekci]

Although I helped PT to create this mod, I've never played with it. Now I think about to do this. But I'm interested in the opinions and experiences of others, especially of REALISM-FREAKS:

* Do you use this mod?
* Is the bahaviour of the ships more realistic than without the mod?

Thanks.
h.sie

I am using it for some time. Ships look more like ships. They swing less and they swing less as they get bigger. But still a 30000 tone warship swings left and right in calm weather. They should be like moving buildings. Orthagonal swinging is okay, big ships break through the waves easily. Also their acceleration behaviours is a little more realistic. They can now escape from dangers like collision and torpedos more difficulty but they still can sometimes. It's a must have for me :up:.

[Sag75]

Hi, I'm also using this mod. Ships feel very well, even if in heavy seas I would like see a slow rolling a bit more.

[h.sie]

(deleted because of wrong information)

[Fishers of Men]

This is bad news! I really liked the concepts addressed in this mod. It seems like it fixes ship behavior problems but created unintended side effects. I hope these things can be resolved, but until then, I will need to uninstall the mod.:wah:

FoM

[cemtufekci]

:damn::damn::wah::wah::wah::wah::wah::wah::wah:

[h.sie]

(deleted because of wrong information)

[nikbear]

How bad is the problem,I'm using the mod and I'm wondering how much of a decrease is happening to the sonar range:06:I'm wonderig what else its doing that I don't know about,It has been mentioned that it breaks other things in GWX,any ideas:hmmm:

[h.sie]

(deleted because of wrong information)

[Fishers of Men]

This test results imply that, on the average, it took five additional minutes for your u-boat to detect the merchant ship with hydrophones, with 10% merchant ship engine reduction(less noise). That suggests that the merchant ship needed to be closer for the u-boat to pick up the propeller sounds. It might cause a u-boat on patrol to miss a number of potential targets.

Does this make any difference to the historical accuracy of the distance the hydrophone was suppose to reach? If not, the mod is not the problem I thought it was. Does anyone from the GWX team know the historical accuracy in SHIII?

FoM

[Jimbuna]

In RL if a submarine speed was 4 knots, the submarine's underwater sound detector average distance of detecting another object was:

- for a destroyer- 5 to 10 nautical miles,
- for a cargo ship- 3.5 to 7.5 nautical miles,
- for a convoy- up to 50 nautical miles.

The detection range however was also dependant on sea conditions.

[Sag75]

Hi to all, as I had already discussed with Thomsen, we may play with the mass ships instead of engines power.

This gives to ships a higher inertia, so not only the acceleration is lower, but the stop too! and probably the turning ability, also.
I know in .dat files there are the real ship mass values.. but are we sure SH3 engine computes 1 kg as a real 1 kg ? :06:

[h.sie]

(deleted because of wrong information)

[Sag75]

Hi, no.. we won't get more points because they are linked to ship type and not to ship mass, ....at least, it's what I know!

So, yes.. we can have a try.. in my opinion it should be better than modify the engines power.

At that time, I increased my U-boat mass 10 fold to have an experiment, and I got a complete stop only after 10km after I turned off the engines! Moreover I was able to get a full speed only after 10-15 minutes! I don't remember the turning ability..
So, it should works...

[h.sie]

I have deleted my last posts above and I apologize for my wrong information and irritation. Newer tests show that the reduced eng_power-value DOES NOT affect the sound a ship produces and so does not affect the sonar range.


sorry, sorry!

[Fishers of Men]

Thanks for your honesty, h.sie. I was more upset about this mod not working correctly than the Swine flu panic. I will continue to use this mod with confidence. Any new development would be appreciated.

FoM

[Pvt. Public]

i found a problem, the type XXI u-boat speed is roughly 6 knots too slow in every config. surfaced, submerged, and submerged w/snorkel. submerged without snorkel gets 16 knots flank but that only lasts a few minutes as it will creep down to 13.

didnt notice this being mentioned on any of the last 3 pages or in the OP so i thought i would let you know.

[h.sie]

yes, I also found out, that reducing eng_power for submarines does not only reduce acceleration, it unfortunately also reduces max. speed, while for surface ships, eng_power does NOT affect max. speed, only acceleration, as desired.

for my private use, I plan to raise the max speed value of the submarines sim-files in order to compensate that effect. if there is any interest, I could share it with others, but I do not guarantee anything. use on your own risk.

h.sie

[Pvt. Public]

if it makes the subs behave like they should then by all means release it! what matters is how they perform ingame right?

now i have a question..
You'll never again see a ship sinking on it's own, no matter how hard the storm is.

is this because they were intentionally changed so that wouldnt happen or was it an unintended side effect? i will miss that happening, it was pretty funny to see.

[Fishers of Men]

I would be interested in the u-boat speed correction, if you please. Thanks for your research.

FoM

[Madox58]

You'll never again see a ship sinking on it's own, no matter how hard the storm is.



A Ship sinking in a storm is a result of the Damage zones
being flooded in Game.

This is something that happened,
and still happens,
in real life.

SH3 has a somewhat real approach to this.
To totally remove this is paramount to
changeing the physics of the real world.

No Ships will ever sink in a Storm henceforth!
:nope:

[h.sie]

if I remember correctly, there was a special mod created called SinkingShipFix from SubTypeZero, which prevents ships from sinking by high waves. I guess, it has been done by lowering the gc_height value. Thomsens mod also lowers gc_height. That might be the reason, that ships don't sink by waves.

In a few days I'll make a private version of that mod with gc_height not so drastically reduced, so that ships are not so very stable as in Thomsens mod.


if it makes the subs behave like they should then by all means release it! what matters is how they perform ingame right?

now i have a question..
You'll never again see a ship sinking on it's own, no matter how hard the storm is.

is this because they were intentionally changed so that wouldnt happen or was it an unintended side effect? i will miss that happening, it was pretty funny to see.

[h.sie]

...as one easily can find out, reducing eng_power for Submarines also drastically reduces their maximum speed for stormy weather. The max. Speed for Surface Ships is NOT affected by eng_power.

So I suggest not to mod the Submarines, because otherwise they would have a big disadvantage in heavy seas.

People who want to follow my suggestions can do the following:

1. Disable the Thomsen Mod using JSGME
2. Delete the Submarine Subfolder of the Thomsen Mod.
3. Enable the Mod.


But if desired, I also could make a new downloadable Mod with Submarine folder already deleted.

[Fishers of Men]

I think making a new download file with the submarine folders removed would be the best choice. Too many new captains coming on board would not know about the u-boat speed problem and leave the folders in believing they belong. I would probably, if reinstalling the mod, forget to remove the folders and question why all u-boats were moving so much slower in heavy seas. I do forget things, sometimes.

Thanks for asking for our opinions.

FoM

[h.sie]

Thomsens Ships V4.1 can be downloaded from my filefront-page.

Changes from V3.1 - > V4.1

1. Submarines removed from this mod, because reducing their engine power also drastically reduces their max. speed in stormy weather, so that they would have big disadvantages compared to surface ships.

2. The mod now contains 208 surface ships: All GWX3-ships plus CommunityShips plus AOTD-Ships.

h.sie

[Sag75]

Hi, is it GWX2.1 compatible ?

did you change other ship parameters from 3.1 version?


thanks!

[h.sie]

Hi Sag,

yes, it's compatible with GWX2.1. And apart from the above mentioned changes there are no further changes.

I think, with this mod the ships behave a little bit too stable in high waves and I could try to reduce gc_height not as drastically as PT did. WEBSTER who made a similar mod for SH4, reduced gc_height to 25% of its original value instead of 0.1 for all ships as PT did. I don't want to touch Surface LR and UD drag because they affect the turning radiuses.

h.sie

[JT1981]

is this mod compatible with GWX3 and MFM?

i used the mod yerstoday with MFM,and found a problem the new ship that GWX dont have,got a strange behavior,when she found me and the speed reduced to almost 1knots......her real speed should be 9knots before finding me!

[h.sie]

what is MFM?

[JT1981]

what is MFM?

MFM=Merchent Fleet Mod

[h.sie]

MFM ships are not modded with that mod and so that mod should not change a MFM ship's behaviour.

[cemtufekci]

h.sie i have imported hansolo's enhanced funnel smokes to gwx and community ships based on your sim files. Can i release it to the community?

[h.sie]

yes of course. they are not mine.

[Azrael Valedhel]

First, I want to thank PT and h.sie for the mod.
Do I understand correctly, that with this mod ships will be deeper in the water and thus calculated range to the targeted ship using her mast height value will be a bit higher than it should be? I've tried the mod in the eels tutorial and I really liked what I've seen, but I didn't have the time to test manual targeting in practice, to tell the truth.
I use GWX3'Gold' and OLCGold2 MkIId, so manual targeting is a must, I can't play without it. But I can say that I also like what this mod is doing...

[h.sie]

That's an interesting question which I didn't analyse, so I fear I cannot answer that. What about doing some test by yourself with and without that mod?

[Azrael Valedhel]

I'm sorry to say that I have very little free time, as I am working my butt off to afford those wedding rings. :rotfl: So, having a valuable tests with almost no time left - isn't really possible right now.
I've played a little at eels practice, and I must say I had pretty good results at ~1750m to ~2500m range - shooting a moving target ;) So I guess even if those must values aren't exactly right - they're also not that much changed.

Or maybe I am just totally wrong and there's no difference at all ;) I thought using mission editor to test this, but as I need a quite few buckets of time and electricity - it's a no-go at the moment.

But - based on an overall good results I've had at the practice - I will start a new career with this mod. Well, one day I will. :)

[rs77]

azrael, from my understanding of this mod it should not affect manual targeting

I believe that changing gc_height (center of gravity of the ship) does not put it deeper into the water, other params changed by this mod only affect ships acceleration and turning ability, someone correct me if I'm wrong

nevertheless even in stock GWX 3.0 some of the mast heights are probably not correct ;)

hsie, do you have ay idea how this mod would affect ships behavior if gc_height change would be eliminated from it ? as I understand center of gravity for all ships is put just a little above their bottom line which doesn't sound like perfect solution for me :hmmm:

[Azrael Valedhel]

Ah, I thought that overall unit weight was changed too, so that would mean the ship is deeper (cause of the weight, but I don't know if this even works like that in the game actually).
About the center of gravity - didn't h.sie re-release it with 25% of starting value instead of 0.0001 or something like that?

[bojan811]

Good mod.

No DD can speed up in 5 sec from 4-15 kts.

Good job endeed!

[h.sie]

hsie, do you have ay idea how this mod would affect ships behavior if gc_height change would be eliminated from it ? as I understand center of gravity for all ships is put just a little above their bottom line which doesn't sound like perfect solution for me :hmmm:

hi rs77: Sorry for the late reply. No, I don't know much about the parameters that were changed with this mod. I only wrote a program which automatically applied PhillipThomsens Parameters to all GWX ships, but my knowledge about these parameters is low. From my beginners point of view, I would guess that gc_height=0.1 makes the ships more stable in the water, so that they won't dance on the waves.......

[bojan811]

Can I use this mod in combination with Tribute to Manual Targeting ( the TMT mod )?

[makman94]

Can I use this mod in combination with Tribute to Manual Targeting ( the TMT mod )?




Hello Bojan811,

no,you can't use Thomsen's Ships with 'TMT mod'

bye

[bojan811]

Ok thank you...:salute:

[Dekessey]

Planning a comeback to SHIII with GWX3 and this mod.
Can anyone tell me if I can just install this mod with GWX3 already installed, with JSGME?


thx, and thx to the modders, can't wait to go back to sea and try this out
:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Planning a comeback to SHIII with GWX3 and this mod.
Can anyone tell me if I can just install this mod with GWX3 already installed, with JSGME?


thx, and thx to the modders, can't wait to go back to sea and try this out
:up:

If I can remember correctly, I modded this on top of GWX 3.0, so it will work, yes. I remember using it some time ago with GWX 3.0 and it worked.

Just enable it via JSGME. :up:

[Ramcourse]

The FileFront link on the first page is dead as a doornail. Does anyone know where I can download this mod?

[zj1985]

The FileFront link on the first page is dead as a doornail. Does anyone know where I can download this mod?
Here is the link:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1311

[Ramcourse]

I only see the sound mod there, not the ship acceleration mod.

[drakkhen20]

same here. link broken and its just the sound mod on subsim download page.

[Fubar2Niner]

Hi Kaleuns.

Unfortunately I don't have Thomsen's ships 3.1 to hand. I do have "TMTv2+ThomsensShips v4.4 for GWX3+Xtra ships" however. If any shipmate wants it, you can find it here;

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21950381/TMTv2_ThomsensShips_v4_4_for_GWX3_Xtra_ships_7z

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Fubar2Niner]

Good news shipmates, for those who must have v3.1 !! I just found it on my external HDD, it can be found here;

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21950489/Thomsens_Ships_V3.1.rar

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[drakkhen20]

ah, very much thank you.:up:



regards,
drakkhen20:salute:

[Fubar2Niner]

You're welcome drakkhen20 :salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[artao]

Hey thanks for the combi-mod link! =]
I found v.3.1 over at maik/pliskin's mod archive. Had no idea there WAS a v.4.4 .. and glad to see it is "for GWX 3" .. what is "+ships" tho?
Anyone know offhand, is this mod compatible with the v1.61 patches? Is it specifically INCOMPATIBLE with anything? Particularly wondering about compatibility with MFM.
Thanks! :salute:

[Fubar2Niner]

Hi kaleun.

This is the readme;


TMT v2 + Thomsens Ships - Combimod
==================================

This Mod combines makman94's "Tribute to Manual Targeting V2" mod

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153937

with the Thomsens Ships mod, which (hopefully) makes
acceleration & maneuverability of surface ships more realistic.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=143775

This Mod changes acceleration & maneuverability of most
of the GWX3 ships PLUS the xtra ships contained in
"GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6"




Changes to TMTv2 .sim files according to Thomsens idea:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Only for ships with tonnage > 300:

Unit_Ship/Propulsion/eng_power: 30% of original value.

Unit_Ship/Rudders/drag: 0.02 (MERCHANTS)
0.025 (BATTLESHIPS)
0.03 (DESTROYERS)
0.04 (ESCORTS)



Version History
---------------

V4.3 -> V4.4:
Added modded NLOV.sim file for Jimbunas Q-Ship.

V4.2 -> V4.3:
Added modified .sim files for xtra ships which came with
"GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6"



Credits
-------
Makman94: For permission to use his TMTv2
Philip Thomsen: For his initial idea.
More Credits: See original TMTv2-Readme

This Combimod was made by
h.sie





-------------- Original Readme TMTv2 --------------------

TMT v2
-------
(Tribute to Manual Targeting - version 2)

for use with gwx3

----------------------------------------
ADDITIONS TO PREVIOUS VERSION 'TMT mod':
----------------------------------------

1. correcting all ships that was sinking on heavy seas
2. correcting the draft values on .cfgs
3. correcting an error to Averoff's length
4. adding missing funnel smoke to naval artillery and tranport Barge
5. immersion adding to the sailing of ships (they look more 'heavier')



credits to:
------------

a) NGT for all his support during the creation of 'TMT mod' and 'TMT v2'

b) RS77 for adding the correct draft values on .cfgs ,for adding the missing funnel smoke to barges and for testing the 'TMT v2'

c) RUBINI for his fixes on the most ships that had the 'sinking' problem and for all the info and help that he gladly gave me and of course for his 'GWX_ships_Buoyance&draught_mod'

d) Subtype_Zero for his fixes to some other ships that had also the 'sinking' problem

e) Phillip Thomsen for his wonderfull idea on his mod ''Thomsen's ships''.

f) H.sie for adding the drag-lr and drag-ud values to .sim files

e) Albrecht von Hesse for his ''enhanced funnel smokes '' mod ,which is reworked by Hansolo and additionaly and finally modified by RS77



note:
-----
unfortunatelly some issues are not clear yet with Phillip's ships so the tweaks on aceleration-decelaration-turning abilities of ships have NOT been included in TMT v2 . but his idea about the 'heavier' movement (meaning left-right ,up-down by its own axises) is included in 'TMT v2' with some minor tweaks by me



readme from 'TMT mod' (previous version)
------------------------------------------
'TMT mod'
---------

this mod is fixing all the ships's dimensions (masts and lengths).

is for use with gwx3.

WARNING: if you run the 'TMT mod' ,be sure that you are NOT running the 'GWX_ships_Buoyance&draught_mod' by Rubini.this mod is already incuded in the 'TMT mod'.[it includes all the ships that are adjusted , the rest ones-very small boats-are not included.so ,if you run the b+d mod on top of 'TMT mod' the mast of these ships (very small boats) will be affected but remember that these ships are not adjusted].
for this reason i am saying not to run 'b+d mod'.run ONLY the 'TMT mod'

ps: i want to express a big thank you to my friend NGT.Without his help,i would (for sure) had never complete this mod.
also ,i am thanking NGT for another reason: he found the name of this mod
--------------------------


enjoy it,


28/8/2009


makman94



Hope this helps mate.

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[artao]

Thanks for the readme, but there's nothing in there regarding compatibility with the 1.61B1 patches or the Merchant Fleet Mod (plus skins, but those are incidental in this regard I assume)
:sunny:

[drakkhen20]

ive played a decently long patrol today with LSH v5.1 and seen no problems, but i did notice it change how my IXB reacted so that was a plus. LSH uses some ships from MFM so i noticed no problems there either. i use h.sies patch and found no problems either. so.... good little mod here guys.:up:

regards,
drakkhen20

[artao]

fair nuf. thx.
:salute:

[artao]

well. seems i can't run the wilhelmshaven, st naz, schluese, extra ships mod .. so i assume i can also not run the tmtv2+TS4.4+extra ships either; as there are no extra ships, i'm guessing that would cause errors.
SO. I'm just running TMTv2. Not sure if I CAN put TS3.1 on top of it or not.
Any input please?

[pkl75]

Hello fellow kaleuns,

Tried to find the above links from Fubar. Gamefront did not provide a working link anymore and Mediafire did not contain the file at all.

Looking forward to this!

[desertstriker]

Hello fellow kaleuns,

Tried to find the above links from Fubar. Gamefront did not provide a working link anymore and Mediafire did not contain the file at all.

Looking forward to this!
ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/S...3COMMUNITYMODS (ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS)

Username: Maik
Password: Woelfe

look for it in the link above but to gain access you will need the username and password above too.

[pkl75]

look for it in the link above but to gain access you will need the username and password above too.


Thanks you, tried that. My browser (IE) asked for username and password but then it just repeats the password window, seemingly not accepting the password?

[Fubar2Niner]

Thanks you, tried that. My browser (IE) asked for username and password but then it just repeats the password window, seemingly not accepting the password?

Give me 10 minutes I'll have it up on mediafire :up:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Fubar2Niner]

@pkl75

The file you seek can now be found here:

TMTv2+ThomsensShips v4.4 for GWX3+Xtra ships.7z

http://www.mediafire.com/?8nmlg4u5o76pxk4

or you can have;

Thomsens_Ships_V3.1.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/?hujhsuq6a6pjryh

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Stiebler]

I have created an application 'Thomsen Parameters App' that will apply any combination of Thomsen's settings to any range of ships for any user.

See this thread here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204399

Stiebler.

[Captain Wreckless]

I have created an application 'Thomsen Parameters App' that will apply any combination of Thomsen's settings to any range of ships for any user.

See this thread here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204399

Stiebler.

Does TMTv2+ThomsensShips v4.4 for GWX3+Xtra ships still need to be installed?

Mike

[Stiebler]

@Captain Wreckless,

Does TMTv2+ThomsensShips v4.4 for GWX3+Xtra ships still need to be installed?You can add whatever ships you like to your SH3 setup (provided they are stable at the time of adding), *before* you follow the instructions for the ThomsenParamApp. I know Makman tested his TMTv2 mod + ThomsenShips v4.4 properly before distribution. If this is all you have added, then no need to use my application.

If you have added any further ships since then (eg IABL's MFM merchant ship collection), then you should use the ThomsenParamApp, but use the app's recommended values. The recommended values are the same as Makman's: eng_power = 30%, rudder-drag = 0.02 (auto-set by the app to 0.03 for fast ships), and 0 for gc_height and 0 for LR. The value of 0 will preserve Makman's slight changes to gc_height and LR.

But check you have a stable game with all new ships present before running my application. Run a long patrol. If the ships you have added to your game cause a CTD (crash-to-desktop) before you use my application, (and test a game save in mid patrol and then a game reload), then it is certain that they will cause a CTD after use of the application!

Good luck,
Stiebler.

[Captain Wreckless]

@Captain Wreckless,

You can add whatever ships you like to your SH3 setup (provided they are stable at the time of adding), *before* you follow the instructions for the ThomsenParamApp. I know Makman tested his TMTv2 mod + ThomsenShips v4.4 properly before distribution. If this is all you have added, then no need to use my application.

If you have added any further ships since then (eg IABL's MFM merchant ship collection), then you should use the ThomsenParamApp, but use the app's recommended values. The recommended values are the same as Makman's: eng_power = 30%, rudder-drag = 0.02 (auto-set by the app to 0.03 for fast ships), and 0 for gc_height and 0 for LR. The value of 0 will preserve Makman's slight changes to gc_height and LR.

But check you have a stable game with all new ships present before running my application. Run a long patrol. If the ships you have added to your game cause a CTD (crash-to-desktop) before you use my application, (and test a game save in mid patrol and then a game reload), then it is certain that they will cause a CTD after use of the application!

Good luck,
Stiebler.

Thanks.

I'm rethinking what mods to use and was just making sure about this new one.

Right now I don't have any active and plan on using MFM, VonDos' ships and some others available when I play.

I will use the app then.

Mike