[REL] Thomsen's Ships V3.1 is out! All credits to H.SIE (10/12/2008)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

December 10th

New version is out!

Changed problems with ships losing too much speed while turning.
Also, the uboats are back in the game, with less pitch and roll and half engine power.
All credits to H.Sie for making up an amazing tool which turns remodding this very easy job.

:up:


November 18th.

10 days later, the new version is out, thanks to all your feedback.

Changelog:

1. Changed all the ships to lose 25% less speed while turning.
2. Changed all escorts to have twice turning ability. In RL, escorts had amazing turning radius.
3. Deleted the submarine folder. No longer changing the uboats simulation, it was causing too much complaints and bugs.

Hopefully I've killed the ship-running-aground-in-port bug. :up:


November 8th.

The first version is finally out!

This is for testing purposes. I made all the changes in the 250 ships, but I didn't test much. I just don't have the time.

From what I've seen, it looks very good.

I didn't try torpedoing any of these ships.

I didn't tested every ship, so I need you guys to help me.

Report flaws about weird sailing behavior, informing which ship and what did you see.

It's uploaded in my FF page, by clicking in my signature.

It's JSGME ready and it covers all the ships in the community ships mod.

:up:





November 2th

Preview is live, at youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_gzBd2v2og

Light weather and heavy heather. Ships are looking very good, bobbing almost zero. Solid as rocks at good weather and kinda good at bad weather. From some testing I can tell that this is pretty much all that can be done about the pitch and roll. The game mechanics and physics are terrible.

Thomsen's Chips are under production! Yeah, cheesy, crambling, tasty! Thomsen's Chips will be attached to some very nasty sauce, barbacue flavor, and...

ok... not funny...

Anyway...

This thread is about those ships I promise to make, turn those sport-car-ships into more heavy, slow and vulnerable ships, like they should have been. Tired of seeing a destroyer (that actually takes more then 10 minutes to reach it's top speed in real life) run away from your torpedos like a lamborghini? Don't worry, I'm fixing it.

Yeah, this post is very messy and not serious, but that's my mood at the moment. Plus this is fixable, I'll edit later when the mod is released. For now it's just a daily update of what I'm doing, why I'm doing, for what purposes and how.

This is also a good place where people can post complaints about the ships, ideas about the mod-to-come, suggestions about anything related and criticism about it. I'm sure there's people in this forum that prefer the sport-car-ships, I respect that, and I invite those people to come here and throw wrenches at thomsen. Believe or not, wrenches can be transformed into suggestions, and can give me ideas on how to make it even better. So, like samsung use to say, everyone's invited!

Now, for the important and interesting part...

1) What does this mod do?

It fixes the speed and maneuverability of the vessels (everything that floats, including u-boats) to more acurate and realistic values.

2) Why?

We at subsim are so concearned about realism, constantly making mods that improve the game to a higher level, and yet the ship's maneuverability are still at square one, since the beggining. How long to you think that a 12 thousand tons tanker takes to go from zero to max speed? The answer would be around 40 minutes. And in game? Around 40 seconds. And how long would a ship like that take to go from full speed to completly stopped? Well, you bet that it would take more than 10 minutes, and a lot of kilometers. And in game? The ship can stop in less then 300 meters, enough to avoyd a collision with other ship, in the middle of the night, with zero visibility.

Ships are huge, it takes the crap out of them to stop, or turn, or increase speed. In game, the lightning speed that they do that makes them feel like rubber ducks in a bathub. How can you ever get the feeling that a ship weights 40.000 tons if it can maneuver easily enough to avoyd torpedos and collisions, go from 30 kts to zero in 8 seconds flat as it watches your torpedo pass by. :nope:

Wanna see something funny? Find a neutral ship and cross your uboat in front of it. The ship will stop in seconds, and avoyd the collision. It's so realistic! :rotfl:

3) Is it GWX compatible?

No.

GWX's campaign is based on the current ship's maneuverability speed. This mod corrects the ship's maneuverability speed, so it breaks some gwx aspects.

What does that mean? Means that I will have ships behaving like crazy in my game?

No. Means that ship's actions will be 10 times slower. All ships. They will take longer to turn, longer to accel and longer to stop. How this will affect the convoys? I don't know... We'll have to test it out and discover...

By logic, while the convoy is moving in a straight line, there will be no problems. When they turn from one waypoint to another, we may have some strange behavior. But from what I've seen already, they make a pretty mess while turning in groups since stock game, and also in supermods. Not becouse the supermods were not built correctly, but becouse the game engine sucks. Sucks badly. Ships go everywhere, go backwards, go right and left, like a blind man in a shootout.

Maybe making them slower will make it better. Maybe not. I don't know if I'll have the time to test it. But 99.9% of the time we spot a convoy, they are running a straight line, aren't them? So I guess we are ok.

4) What will I see from stock/gwx/nygm/wac to change with this mod?

- Ships may collide with one another. I bet you never saw that happen!
- Ships won't be able to avoyd torpedos. In real life, when a ship spotted a torpedo, it was too close to turn/stop/accelerate and avoyd it. On a big ship, if you apply full reverse when going foward, you wouldn't even feel any difference. Takes a LOT of time for the ship to express any reaction.
- Ships will behave less like rubber ducks and more like solid icebergs. I'm improving their sailing behavior as well. This will fit perfectly with the Thomsen's Water mod, as the waves are also more realistic. You'll never again see a ship sinking on it's own, no matter how hard the storm is.
- Some other neat stuff... (surprises) :cool:

5) Where can I download it?

This mod is still under development. Note the title: WIP = Work in progress.
So why is this a thread for it?
So we can discuss about it, see how is it going, launch some beta-versions, have some feedback.

I really don't have time to play anymore, but I do have some time to mod. I'll mod, and you guys will test. The feedback will provide me the info I need to tweak the mod as necessary. But mainly this is a very simple mod, I don't believe that it will cause much trouble, and hardly incompatible with other mods. (in terms of files).

I believe that I'll have the first version of it to be released by the weekend. But as I said, I have short time to mod, about one hour per day. So I cannot make any guarantees. But I'll try.

I wish I had the time to finish the Sound pack V4 and the Water V4, but unfortunally those two mods take much more time to be made, compared to this. Plus, I think that both look pretty good already, not much to be fixed, and besides, SH3 days are counting down, not worth invest too much modding time into SH3 anymore. But this is a discussion for other threads.

:up:

Edit: New version 3.1 by h.sie Here (http://hosted.filefront.com/hennings)

[Letum]

You have me interested.

I remember people had problems trying to make this in the past.

How long to get a VIIC from 0-17knts?

Do you know how it effects destroyer difficulty?

Any chance of a version that only effects u-boats?

Thanks and regards.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

You have me interested.

I remember people had problems trying to make this in the past.

How long to get a VIIC from 0-17knts?

Do you know how it effects destroyer difficulty?

Any chance of a version that only effects u-boats?

Thanks and regards.

This version will affect only the vessels you want it to affect. One ship, one uboat, all of them, none of them... you pick!

An uboat you take around 5 minutes to achive maximum speed. They cut thru the water very well and they're small and light.

About the destroyers, they will suffer less then the ships, the difference on their difficulty won't be great. They will just take a bit longer to accelerate and to brake.

:up:

[Wolfehunter]

PT is Ships not Chips ok.. I liked them pickled not all flavored lol.:up:

Great idea you have. I can't wait to see the finished product.

[bigboywooly]

Ummmm
This

3) Is it GWX compatible?

No.

GWX's campaign is based on the current ship's maneuverability speed. This mod corrects the ship's maneuverability speed, so it breaks some gwx aspects.

Is garbage
The GWX campaign is not built on ships going from 0 to max speed in 1 second or anything like
The GWX campaign - like the rest of the campaigns out there - assigns a ship a sped to travel at within it speed range

If you need any help understanding something just ask

:roll:

[Commander Gizmo]

I think he was trying to play it safe and say that problems were expected with ship manuvering in the game. GWX would have thrown him overboard if he said it was compatible. Maybe it is none of my business, but can't we all just get along here?

[Graf Paper]

I think he's operating on the understanding that altering a ship's ability to maneuver can break waypoints in GWX, bbw.

And with the hammering Philipp has taken lately about how his mods "break" things in GWX, I'm thinking maybe he added that remark to try and avoid such criticism again.

Philipp's battles with other modders may have made him reluctant to approach anyone involved in developing GWX so it's understandable why he didn't ask how his mod would affect waypoints for ships in GWX.

I know PT can be a bit rough around the edges but I really don't think he meant any insult this time. Philipp's still young and he hasn't fully mastered how to express himself in english.

I know my own mouth got me into plenty of trouble in my youth and I grew up speaking english as my native language!

I'm not asking you to cut the kid some slack for his own sake. I figure that would be unlikely, given all the bad blood. However, I'm asking for the sake of this community. We all need to be more forgiving and stop snapping at each other over these mods like a dog guarding a well-gnawed bone.

No matter who is to blame, I think that attacking a modder who has insulted a person's "professional pride", through ignorance or lack of language skills, only serves to make the community look ugly and leaves a black mark on the name of the modder or group that perpetuates the feud. It's not impossible to remain civil while you tell someone they're wrong or mistaken in their statements.

I admire all of the modders' efforts here and wish I knew even a tenth of what you all have learned about modding this game. The rest of us look up to you as heroes, of a sort. I pray you would keep that in mind.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Calm down you guys!

I'm not mad at anyone at gwx's, like you guys think.

I'm not picking a fight saying it's not compatible with gwx. I'm just saying the truth.

@BBW, I'm not saying anything about if the ship's maneuverability is right or wrong in gwx, that's not the point. All I said is that gwx is based on the ship's maneuverability IN gwx, which is obvious, and I don't know exactly what I'll be breaking by changing the way ships behave. All I'm trying to say is that gwx's ships have X aspects, and I'm changing all the ships to have Y aspects, so I'll be breaking *something* in gwx's engine. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, for pete's sake. I had enough of my share of fights, and I want none, ever again. I just said what I said cos I think it would be easier to pick a fight if I hadn't mention the compatibility with GWX. People would eventually ask or say something about it anyway, I just wanted to make it clear from the beggining. I'm really HOPING it doesn't break anything, but I'm not sure yet. And I didn't ask you guys cos I really didn't want to bother you with this, since you guys are filled with duties on gwx 3.0, gwx 4.0 and real-life stuff.

Really guys, no harm meant. You need to chill, I'll solve any issues and arguments with patience, honesty and kind words from now on.

:up:

[Contact]

yo PT stop being sorry again, u're doing fine. it's just your hot character makes u rush and leave lots of mistakes behind unfixed and sometimes hard words comes to life where on the second thought could of been avoided :) If I would start modding something myself I would deffinetly make loooots of mistakes on the way of reaching perfectiness. It's just good idea to leave details (as u do sometimes) in unknown state if u're not sure how things works in one or other circumstances so ppl would know that this mod has a chance to mess up something and let users use it on their own risk.

"Per asper ad astra" :up:

[bigboywooly]

And all I was saying is makes no difference to GWX\WAC\NYGM or LSH3 if the ships manouverability is altered
As long as no ships max speed is lowered it makes no difference to waypoints or anything else
Adjusting the speed ships take off at is long overdue and been an issue from day 1

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Well, if you're saying that the script is not a problem, then it's ok. I figured that changing the ships wouldn't mess the campaign, but I had a feeling that it COULD mess a little bit the point where ships start to turn when heading for a new waypoint. But I know what you mean. They do it slowly and the ocean is vast. There'll be no problem.

Do you mind sharing what was the difficulties with changing the ship acceleration, breaking and turning abilities?

@Contact, I'm not rushing, I'm just being transparent about what I think. As I said, I don't have time to play the game, that means I don't have time to test my mods. That said, the best way around this would use the logic to build the best I can, and rely on the community to beta-test it for me. That's what I meant.

:up:

[Myxale]

Phil, why you don't just do your Mojo, and well see how well it works out!

I'm dying to see where this is going.
Considering how fast a DD can go from "ridiculous speed" to a totall stop, its a worth try!!

[bigboywooly]

I dont know anyone who has looked at reducing the acceleration of the top of my head
so nothing to share
But am sure someone in 3 years must have taken a look at it

[Jimbuna]

@PT

One thing in particular you may want to keep an eye on is the tendancy for vessels that collide with one another to 'blend/intertwine' together, as opposed to bouncing off one another.

If you succeed in your goal of slowing them down it is possible that two or more vessels. once having collied may look unsightly/unrealistic for an awful length of game time. :hmm:

I wish you well in your efforts and hope you achieve a successful outcome. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Graf Paper]

You can relax now, PT. I did not intend any sort of tone that could be mistaken as combative, hence my lack of exclamation marks or typing in all capital letters. ;)

I know we can all be intolerable at times. You have to be a bit of a character when your temperament is the sort to get involved in a game and community like this. We're all eccentric to a certain degree. :p

I know that fellows like jimbuna and bbw are stand-up guys, as are the vast majority of the regulars here. If you ever have any doubt about your words or the mods you're working on, do not hesitate to ask someone you trust, Philipp. :yep:

Now, get to work or I'll have jimbuna bring out the commando penguin chorus line! :88)
(uhh...you do have commando penguins, right, jimbuna?)

REALLY looking forward to the results and I will gladly put my system at risk to test this mod! :up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice to see folks working this though :), no need for the drama. Looking forward
to seeing you complete this one PT :yep::up:


RDP

[Philipp_Thomsen]

@Jim, there's controllers for how much does a ship bounce of a collision. If set too low, they merge, like you said. If set too high, the bounce is overdue and a ship may collide at 2kts and bounce back at 4kts, if you know what I mean. I'll do my best to find the best middle-ground there, and thank you for mentioning this, it's a very important thing to look at, since this mod will enable one ship to collide with eachother.

@Graf, yeah, I know. I don't like to take things too seriously, life is just too short for that kind of attitude. Noticed that I've started this thread with a joke? I'm more pacific lately, I've come to realize that this is just a game, this is just modding, this is just hobbie, fun and friends. Why waste time, hair and get stressed discussing what is right and what is wrong at something that 3 years from now will be completly dead and forgotten? There's actually not ONE thing in like that is worth stressing about.

:up:

[Sailor Steve]

I will disagree with one point:

- Ships won't be able to avoyd torpedos. In real life, when a ship spotted a torpedo, it was too close to turn/stop/accelerate and avoyd it.
I've found several accounts of merchant ships avoiding torpedoes. But, they were always underway, and did manage to avoid them by turning, not acceleration or deceleration. And several does not equal many. And a lot of the ones who avoided a torpedo got caught by the next one. And since PT is not in a position to do extensive testing it's possible that a ship may actually still evade a torpedo every now and then.

So, I'm not arguing with the basic premise, just pointing out a fact of life. And I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yeah, Steve, I know what you mean.

The ship's turning ability wont be changed too much, maybe just cutted in half. The main idea here is to fix the accel/breaking ability to a more realistic approach. It's hard to see a ship stop at a red light to let pass the torpedos. :lol:

:up:

[Jimbuna]

Did someone mention penguins :p

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~lucygoh/images/animated%20penguin16.gif http://www.clubpenguinfansite.com/forums/images/smilies/Penguin/42.gif

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1770/animation5tn5.gif

[Task Force]

Will this be a GWX 3.0 feature.:D with the correctly edited shipping lanes for it...

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Will this be a GWX 3.0 feature.:D with the correctly edited shipping lanes for it...

Who said so?

[Task Force]

Little men on mars, They raidoed my ship and tole us of this info.:p

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Little men on mars, They raidoed my ship and tole us of this info.:p

If this is true, I'm stopping my work now.

[Task Force]

No Im just jokeing, I know nothing.:yep: Whish I did, but I dont.:shifty:

[SeaWolf U-57]

Did someone mention penguins :p

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~lucygoh/images/animated%20penguin16.gif http://www.clubpenguinfansite.com/forums/images/smilies/Penguin/42.gif

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1770/animation5tn5.gif


Didn't you ask for some on the ice flows in GWX3.0 :hmm:

[Dekessey]

This mod sounds great PT, best of luck, and keep us informed of your progress.
I guess there will be people willing to test it out throughly.

[Uber Gruber]

Any chance you can attenuate the very unrealistic "bobbing" of ships in calmer waters. Just one look at the "floating docks" in kiel gives me a stomache ache, how the hell a bloke was supposed to hammer rivets whilst the whole rig is jumping about the place like a rodeo is beyone me.

I get the impression the ships are no where near "heavy" enough in calmer waters. I've been on big, small and medium ships in my time including HMS Sheffield (old destroyer, sunk in Falklands/Malvinas/Whatever)....not one of them bobbed they way SH3 ships do.

Right, thats my "moan of the day" aired....now whose for a came of fluffy care-ball.

[Jimbuna]

Did someone mention penguins :p

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~lucygoh/images/animated%20penguin16.gif http://www.clubpenguinfansite.com/forums/images/smilies/Penguin/42.gif

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1770/animation5tn5.gif


Didn't you ask for some on the ice flows in GWX3.0 :hmm:

Cool idea :hmm:

[Graf Paper]

Penguins in the arctic? :huh:

Must be one of those psychological warfare plots to fool convoys into thinking they're off course and sow confusion, making them easy pickin's for the wolf packs. :p

[Commander Gizmo]

Any chance you can attenuate the very unrealistic "bobbing" of ships in calmer waters. Just one look at the "floating docks" in kiel gives me a stomache ache, how the hell a bloke was supposed to hammer rivets whilst the whole rig is jumping about the place like a rodeo is beyone me.

I get the impression the ships are no where near "heavy" enough in calmer waters. I've been on big, small and medium ships in my time including HMS Sheffield (old destroyer, sunk in Falklands/Malvinas/Whatever)....not one of them bobbed they way SH3 ships do.

Right, thats my "moan of the day" aired....now whose for a came of fluffy care-ball.

You might try the Lifeboats and Debris with Boyancy Update. I makes the boats feel alot 'heavier' in the water.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Any chance you can attenuate the very unrealistic "bobbing" of ships in calmer waters. Just one look at the "floating docks" in kiel gives me a stomache ache, how the hell a bloke was supposed to hammer rivets whilst the whole rig is jumping about the place like a rodeo is beyone me.

I get the impression the ships are no where near "heavy" enough in calmer waters. I've been on big, small and medium ships in my time including HMS Sheffield (old destroyer, sunk in Falklands/Malvinas/Whatever)....not one of them bobbed they way SH3 ships do.

Right, thats my "moan of the day" aired....now whose for a came of fluffy care-ball.

Bastard! Almost got me fired! :rotfl:

I was reading your "floating dock" comentary and laughing my ass off, when all off the sudden, my boss enters my room and say "whatta hell are you laughing at?". I had to invent a story, it was pretty close...

Anyway, don't worry about the bobbing, I'm fixing that.

No, I'm not improving that, I'm FIXING that!

:up:

[Task Force]

Yay, no more hitting fingers while hammering in nails and stuff.:lol:

[Erich dem Roten]

I really look forward to seeing how this turns out :up:

My only concern is convoy behavior after it becomes evident it is under attack. Once these big merchants start zig-zagging, are we going to see the convoy lanes smashing through each other? Or will the AI be smart enough to either synchronize its movements or take an evasive course?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I really look forward to seeing how this turns out :up:

My only concern is convoy behavior after it becomes evident it is under attack. Once these big merchants start zig-zagging, are we going to see the convoy lanes smashing through each other? Or will the AI be smart enough to either synchronize its movements or take an evasive course?

Ships will behave like ships, they will be slow and heavy, slow acceleration and slow brakes and slow turns, just like a ships should be.

If the ship's ramm eachother, it's not the ship's fault, it's the capitain's fault.

:up:

[Paul_IronCoffin]

Fantastic news!! Thanks for your efforts Philipp_Thomsen.

...just one cheeky thing. As an accountant I can definitely say WIP = Work In Progress :yep:

cheers
Paul

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Fantastic news!! Thanks for your efforts Philipp_Thomsen.

...just one cheeky thing. As an accountant I can definitely say WIP = Work In Progress :yep:

cheers
Paul

Really? I always thought it was "within production"... :lol:

Great, thanks for letting me know! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

The most strange thing just happened now. I went to bed late, around 3am, trying to set the ships for this mod. They didn't behave like I imagined. Then I went to bed, and I had a dream about modding this. I dreamt that I was imputing some values in S3D, and I woke up in a shock, like a bad dream, around noon... the values were still in my head. I went straight away to the computer and test those values, and they work like a charm!

lol...

I really need to stop modding... :lol:

[Task Force]

Lol, You myfriend think better when sleeping.:lol: Myself, I dont think when im awake or asleep.:yep:

[Commander Gizmo]

I have often had similar revelations PT. Amazing what the brain can do when dreaming!

[Sag75]

oh yes! during sleeping the brain is not turned off!
it has a good activity as well as we are awake!

amazing Nature misteries....

[Philipp_Thomsen]

First preview of the progress with the mod!

Look how steady and firm those ships look. No bobbing!

Now you might say: "meh, the water is calm, that's why!"

So I made the last half of the video with the most stormy conditions possible (15m/s winds) so you can see the ships are looking great.

During the storm, you can see a little bit of the waves going inside the ships, but don't worry, the ships don't sink, I've tested. The waves are doing that cos in my water mod the tips of the waves are too high, too pointed in stormy conditions, so they go higher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_gzBd2v2og

Hope to read some criticism on this!

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Where the bloody hell is the people in this forum???

oh... it's 4:20 am... :damn:

damn... off to bed!

Tomorrow Massa will show Hamilton what a true champion is made of.

If it weren't for Ferrari's bunch of errors, he would be champion already. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

Where the bloody hell is the people in this forum???

oh... it's 4:20 am... :damn:

damn... off to bed!

Tomorrow Massa will show Hamilton what a true champion is made of.

If it weren't for Ferrari's bunch of errors, he would be champion already. :nope:

Are you a gambling man then? :hmm:

[Fubar2Niner]

Great WIP video Philipp. I have to agree with Mikhayl the waves washing the decks adds to he realism IMHO. Can't wait for the release :up: :up: :up:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[UberTorpedo]

PT, I have to agree with Mikhayl and Fubar2Niner :up::up::up:. This is coming along nicely. Keep up the good work :yep:.

Cheers,
UberTorpedo

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Someone gave me a 1 star rating here too...

Is this mod that bad, really? Or it's more like hate? Or envy?

Post a nice criticism here, instead of acting like a child.

At least it would be construtive. :nope:

[Graf Paper]

That video looks gorgeous! :rock:

I was wondering about the behavior of the ships in the 15 m/s storm conditions. The ships seemed a little too calm. Wouldn't a raging storm cause waves to break over the bows and also cause ships to "nose under" from time to time while riding the heavy seas?

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod or is it more to do with the wave height settings?

One thing I think this mod will allow is to make attacking ships in a storm more successful. The current "bobbing" behavior of ships now causes a lot more misses from the ships being raised up high enough in the water by the waves so that your torpedo passes under them harmlessly, even though your torpedo is set to run at 1 meter or less. :damn:

I know some people might say to use magnetic pistols but they are highly unreliable and tend to detonate prematurely in rough seas. :nope:

So that's another reason why I think this mod will actually add to the realism in regards to torpedo attacks. :yep:

I can hardly wait for a release of this mod, Philipp!

[Letum]

Still looking very interesting.

Is it me, or are some of the ships sitting a little low in the water in your video?
(It may well be me!)

[Uber Gruber]

@PT.....I have to say mate, the ships look brilliant in calmer weather now. Very solid in the water, cutting through the sea rather than "riding" it. In rougher seas though they seem quite low in the water and that's why their decks are quite awash.

In theory, the ships should go from (a) cutting through the sea in calm waters to (b) side to side roll in rougher waters and finally (c) "cork-screwing" in the roughest waters. Its the energy of the sea that should make them "bob", so no bobbing in calm waters (no energy), some bobbing in medium waters and chaotic cyclic motion in roughest waters.

I'm curious, does the SH3 engine allow a sliding scale of "bobbyness" as the weather worsens ? Because if you could keep everything as it is in your video but get the ships to rise up a little in the rogher weather states then i'd say the decks will be a little less awash and you'll have solved the whole shebang.

Excellent work though, amazing really after nearly 4 years in the public eye. :rock:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

That video looks gorgeous! :rock:

I was wondering about the behavior of the ships in the 15 m/s storm conditions. The ships seemed a little too calm. Wouldn't a raging storm cause waves to break over the bows and also cause ships to "nose under" from time to time while riding the heavy seas?

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod or is it more to do with the wave height settings?

This video was made with my water mod video, so the waves are smaller, so you don't have that much pitch and roll. Using GWX you'll have more of that "nose under" you said.

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod? Well, pretty much. There's no way to fix "steady" for calm weathers and "bobbing" for heavy ones.

The good side is that, with this mod and my water mod, I've killed that "ship sinking on it's own" bug, that pissed off a lot of players around. The storm is not that perfect bizarre storm, in my water mod. It's more like a heavy weather, and that's it. Those amazing waves that turn ships into submarines for some seconds, causes more harm then good, when it comes to SH3. It's better to keep it working properly then to be 100% realistic sometimes.

One thing I think this mod will allow is to make attacking ships in a storm more successful. The current "bobbing" behavior of ships now causes a lot more misses from the ships being raised up high enough in the water by the waves so that your torpedo passes under them harmlessly, even though your torpedo is set to run at 1 meter or less. :damn:

Isn't that absurd? Do you really think that a 3.000 tons ships would pop out of the water, so a torpedo would pass below it, even if set for 1m? :nope:
Enough of that. Let's make it playable. :up:

I know some people might say to use magnetic pistols but they are highly unreliable and tend to detonate prematurely in rough seas. :nope:

So that's another reason why I think this mod will actually add to the realism in regards to torpedo attacks. :yep:

That is true. In heavy seas I didn't know what to set for depth. The ship has a 5 meter draft, so in calm waters I would set the torpedo for 5.8. But in heavy seas, if I set for 5.8, it would either pass under without detonating, or hit the curly part of the hull and ricochet. The torpedo would have to pass in the exact perfect timing to detonate, which in cases would consume 3 or 4 torpedos. It's ridiculous, just a bad joke. That's not the real stuff. Now with this, it will be better to hunt! :up:

I can hardly wait for a release of this mod, Philipp!

Above, in colour! :up:

[Tango589]

Looking good so far PT! I'm looking forward to a WIP video of a torpedo being fired at the stationary tramp-steamer in the Torpedo Tutorial and not seeing the boat put the pedal to the metal and high-tail it out of there.:damn:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

@PT.....I have to say mate, the ships look brilliant in calmer weather now. Very solid in the water, cutting through the sea rather than "riding" it. In rougher seas though they seem quite low in the water and that's why their decks are quite awash.

In theory, the ships should go from (a) cutting through the sea in calm waters to (b) side to side roll in rougher waters and finally (c) "cork-screwing" in the roughest waters. Its the energy of the sea that should make them "bob", so no bobbing in calm waters (no energy), some bobbing in medium waters and chaotic cyclic motion in roughest waters.

I'm curious, does the SH3 engine allow a sliding scale of "bobbyness" as the weather worsens ? Because if you could keep everything as it is in your video but get the ships to rise up a little in the rogher weather states then i'd say the decks will be a little less awash and you'll have solved the whole shebang.

Excellent work though, amazing really after nearly 4 years in the public eye. :rock:

Thank you very much!

As I said above, to Graf Paper, the lack of bobbing is necessary to keep the ships low on the water in heavy waters without sinking on it's own.

But if is a general opinion that the ships should go more up and down on the water in heavy seas, that can be made. In my opinion it's looking great the way it is. You need to note that the small merchant was going up and down a lot, while the large tanker was not. Why? The large tanker is heavier, longer and LARGER! That would make it go steadier in heavy waters.

I think it looks great, but then again, I had never been on a ship, so I don't know how much would be the bobbing in rough waters. A good video would be great, anyone have one?

[Graf Paper]

Thank you for your well thought reply, Philipp. :)

I agree that it does seem the "bobbing in a bathtub" behavior of ships has been due more to people wanting ships to be tossed about on stormy seas because that's how it looks in movies.

We are talking about a sim that is supposed to at least resemble the real world, after all.

It is a shame that SH3 will not allow a ship's mass to behave differently in the different effects of sea states, such as greater torsion and flexion in severe storms causing a ship to roll and nose under.

The buoyancy seems fine. Battleships and tankers do indeed ride very low in the water. Both types of ships are very massive and heavy.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Looking good so far PT! I'm looking forward to a WIP video of a torpedo being fired at the stationary tramp-steamer in the Torpedo Tutorial and not seeing the boat put the pedal to the metal and high-tail it out of there.:damn:

The video don't shows that, but the acceleration and braking abilities of the ships have been reduced by 10 times, so there's no way it will ever happen again.

:up:

[Task Force]

Good mod thomson. this diserves 5 stars.:p Now ive gotta find a way to get this running with GWX.:hmm: Dont feel like downloading sh3 again.:lol:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Thank you for your well thought reply, Philipp. :)

I agree that it does seem the "bobbing in a bathtub" behavior of ships has been due more to people wanting ships to be tossed about on stormy seas because that's how it looks in movies.

We are talking about a sim that is supposed to at least resemble the real world, after all.

It is a shame that SH3 will not allow a ship's mass to behave differently in the different effects of sea states, such as greater torsion and flexion in severe storms causing a ship to roll and nose under.

The buoyancy seems fine. Battleships and tankers do indeed ride very low in the water. Both types of ships are very massive and heavy.

EXACTLY!!! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Good mod thomson. this diserves 5 stars.:p Now ive gotta find a way to get this running with GWX.:hmm: Dont feel like downloading sh3 again.:lol:

Well, in the video, the mod is running on top of gwx, olc, water stream, community ships, life boat and debris, exaust smoke, all my mods, the whole shebang.

The mod changes the ship's .sim file, and there's very very few mods that mess around with that file, so that would assure compatibility of thousand other mods.

And yes, you readed it right. This mod covers all the ships in the community mod! :rock:

It's very simple really. This mod don't change the ship's draught, or the maximum speed, or anything that would cause problems or CTD's. This is the easiest mod I've ever done. In terms of thinking it thru, cos in terms of manually changing the data, it's a pain in the ass... 250 files to change, 5 values to change in each file, different values depending on the kind of ship. Yeah, I would love some help! :lol:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Gosh... I hope IBL like these ships and change his ships' .sim files in the merchant fleet mod. Otherwise, I will have a lot more work to do in the late november... :lol:

By the way, REEEEEEAAAALLLY looking foward to it, IBL! :up:

[Myxale]

Looks neat Philip. And about the water flowing over, well this happens in RL in stormy seas! I think it was kinda nice! Here are some pics about it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNaWlVOgdtQ

The ships did feel heavier from the look of it. Now we just need some examples about acceleration and zig-zah behaviour.:up:

PS I so love watching vids of big fat cargo in stormy conditions!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Looks neat Philip. And about the water flowing over, well this happens in RL in stormy seas! I think it was kinda nice! Here are some pics about it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNaWlVOgdtQ

The ships did feel heavier from the look of it. Now we just need some examples about acceleration and zig-zah behaviour.:up:

PS I so love watching vids of big fat cargo in stormy conditions!

LOL!

The video is great, and would be great to have something like that in the game. But any attempt of making the ships behave like that and the waves to be like that will only result in one thing: Ships sinking on their own.

I'll explain the best I can.

The ship movement in SH3 is retarded to the wave's movement. It means then, when the wave is going up, the ships is going down, and when the ship is going up, from the rebound of the water pressure, the wave goes down.

What happens?

When the ships is going down and the wave is going up, is the wave height is too great, the water level surpasses the ship's X point. If that happens, there's flooding. If there's flooding, the ship sitts lower in the water, causing more flooding and utterly causing it's sinking.

When the ship is going up from the bounce, and the waves are going down, if the wave height is too great, the ships will float in the air for some seconds. The interesting part is, the ship in SH3 engine is not heavier when it's out of the water. It keeps the same movement, the same weight, like there's no gravity, until it sits on the water again. I've tried for creating great storms, but the results are disastrous, when it comes to SH3's engine.

So I thought... "what can be done for SH3 then?"

If ships don't behave well in heavy seas, let's make them behave great in calm seas. That's what I'm trying to do with this mod.

The waves itself are another big problem. The waves in real life are waaaaaaay smaller then in stock SH3. Even in calm seas, there are 3 or 4 frequency of waves in the lenght of a long ship, while in real life, that frequency goes up to a thousand. Bigger waves makes the ships look terrible.

I explain: if you look very close to a bottle of perfum, and put a miniature plastic man aside of it, if the plastic man looks bloody real and you take a picture, the bottle of perfum will seems to be enormous on that picture. If instead of the plastic man, you put your finger aside of the bottle and take a picture, the bottle will look just like a normal bottle. The brain needs something to compare to create a mental idea of size and weight, and normally the closest thing to the object is the thing taken for comparation and mental creating of the object's mass.

So if you take this thought back to SH3, the closest thing to the ship will always be the waves. If the waves look huge, the ships looks like toys. That's what I've tried to do with my water mod. I reduced drastically the wave sizes, so the ships look more like 3 thousand tons 150 meters long pieces of steel, and not as plastic toys. I didn't manage to pull out the realistic stuff, cos diminishing the size of the waves makes the CPU and VGA card overhelmed with work, 10 times more things to calculate and render, the fps hit is huge. I tried my best to find the middle ground between real-life waves and playable stuff on medium-power computers. That's the best you can have. If you set the waves to be even smaller, which would be more realistic, two big problems pops-up:

1. major fps hit even on first class computers
2. pattern waves looking so obvious that the sea looks like garbage.

Smaller waves = more waves = more obvious patterns. You tell the game how do you want a block of water to be like, and it copy it side by side to fill the rendered part of the sea. There's no way around it.

So basically, SH3 is very limited when it comes to the ocean modding acceptances. Let us hope that SH5 has a better engine and that those guys at ubsoft finally found a way to kill the pattern waves, that makes the water look so awful sometimes.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Progress going along nicely.

Probably a first beta-version of testing purposes could be out tonight.

I didn't get any time to test the changes in game, deeply, in campaign, so I'm relying on you guys!

I need some constructive criticism! :up:

[Graf Paper]

Rather that love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... gimme this mod! :yep::yep::yep:

:p


Your mods just keep getting better and better, PT! :up:

[sabretwo]

PT,

Looks great!

I haven't been on any warships, but I have been on a few large commercial vessels in rough weather. Although they do rock a bit, they don't rock nearly as much as they do in SH3.

I wouldn't mess with it too much more. I think you've got it just right.

One question, does the behavior also affect player U-boats? (I hope so, U-boats in heavy waves seem to flounder like tin cans...I can see my crew all having concussions after the way they get thrown around in there.) If you adjust U-boat behavior, will this have a noticeable impact on fuel consumption? That may need to be adjusted accordingly.

[iambecomelife]

Gosh... I hope IBL like these ships and change his ships' .sim files in the merchant fleet mod. Otherwise, I will have a lot more work to do in the late november... :lol:

By the way, REEEEEEAAAALLLY looking foward to it, IBL! :up:

First off, excellent work! I am so glad that someone managed to resolve this problem b/c no large vessel should bob like a toy boat. :lol:

I suggest that you keep the values the same for the Flower Class corvette because they were notorious rollers.

And yes - in the next month or two I will give you my ships so that you can make the necessary adjustments to them. Or you can simply PM me the changes that need to be made and I can make the alterations myself.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Rather that love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... gimme this mod! :yep::yep::yep:

:p


Your mods just keep getting better and better, PT! :up:

That's what happens when you keep modding and modding! :lol:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

PT,

Looks great!

I haven't been on any warships, but I have been on a few large commercial vessels in rough weather. Although they do rock a bit, they don't rock nearly as much as they do in SH3.

I wouldn't mess with it too much more. I think you've got it just right.

One question, does the behavior also affect player U-boats? (I hope so, U-boats in heavy waves seem to flounder like tin cans...I can see my crew all having concussions after the way they get thrown around in there.) [:rotfl: :rotfl: ]If you adjust U-boat behavior, will this have a noticeable impact on fuel consumption? That may need to be adjusted accordingly.

Funny about the concussions... :lol: ... and so true!
Yeah, the uboats are included in the list. Will change the way they behave in rough waters and in calm waters, they will look pretty sturdy aswell. About the fuel consumption, great question... I can tell you yet, I didn't test it. But if it does, it's easy to fix.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Gosh... I hope IBL like these ships and change his ships' .sim files in the merchant fleet mod. Otherwise, I will have a lot more work to do in the late november... :lol:

By the way, REEEEEEAAAALLLY looking foward to it, IBL! :up:

First off, excellent work! I am so glad that someone managed to resolve this problem b/c no large vessel should bob like a toy boat. :lol:

I suggest that you keep the values the same for the Flower Class corvette because they were notorious rollers.

And yes - in the next month or two I will give you my ships so that you can make the necessary adjustments to them. Or you can simply PM me the changes that need to be made and I can make the alterations myself.

GREAT NEWS IBL!!! :up:

I'll make the adjustments for you if you prefer. If you want to do it yourself and release the merchant fleet already modded, I can PM you the values, once I have them. It's still in beta-testing, so I'm not 100% sure about the values yet. But I'm releasing a beta-testing version today, so people could test. Once people are satisfied about the results, the values will be defined, and I can PM you the values so you can change it yourself.

It's up to your decision. For me, anyway you prefer! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Bugger...

I was going to release a beta version for testing purposes today, but I've just got home from work, 10pm here, I'm bloody tired... I just don't feel like tunning 250 ships, 5 values each.

Let's see if I can manage to release it by the weekend.:nope:

[Tango589]

I'm going to hold my breath until its released!:o

:p

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I'm going to hold my breath until its released!:o

:p


:shifty:

No pressure, dammit... NO PRESSURE!

:lol:

[WeeBubba]

hi PT

just came on to say this looks great. it really cheeses me off when im in the naval academy torpedo trainer and the still boat accelerates to 10 knots in like 2 seconds to avoid my torp. so unrealistic.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

hi PT

just came on to say this looks great. it really cheeses me off when im in the naval academy torpedo trainer and the still boat accelerates to 10 knots in like 2 seconds to avoid my torp. so unrealistic.

Tell me about it!

A 10k tons ship can take up to 40 minutes to reach that speed starting from full stop.

[Tango589]

I'm going to hold my breath until its released!:o

:p


:shifty:

No pressure, dammit... NO PRESSURE!

:lol:

No, no pressure at all, as I had to start breathing again after my eyes went funny.:doh:

:D

[johan_d]

CTB, go for it!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Finally...

After messing around with 250 ships, it's done.

Updating the first post with the details, please read.

:up:

[goggy]

Hi PT,
thanks a lot for building a work around and improving the game!
Some remarks so far: The torp test mission works fine, no lamborghini-like accelerating any more. But in my campain my IXC behaves like a "speed boat": 23 kts. maximum, submerged 9 kts maximum. rpm´s are as before. :hmm: I havn´t checked the other subs yet.

[Jimbuna]

23 knots http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

Hey PT....what ya broke now :p

;) :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

IXC??? :hmm:

Well... more stability to the uboats, that means they can probably go faster...

But still, the IXC is configured to have 19.3 top speed in the sim file... thats weird. :hmm:

Are you sure you're using IXC?

Just tested.. in my system the IXC gets 20 kts tops. Do you have any mod enabled that changes the subs? Do you have added any engine upgrades?

[onelifecrisis]

I watched the video, and I must say that in the stormy weather part those ships really moved like real ships in a real storm!
:rock:

[goggy]

Strange...in my campaign the IXC went 23 kts. But it´s the normal 19/20 kts in "Golf of Aden" mission either IXC or IXC/40. Another campaign with a VIIC works fine, too.
Other mods: RBS SH4 Effects GWX 2.04, RBS Effects lite and Thomsons Dials:),they shouldn´t do any harm.
So perhaps: Never add a mod during a running campain.:yep:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I watched the video, and I must say that in the stormy weather part those ships really moved like real ships in a real storm!
:rock:

Hey buddie! Nice to see you around!

Thanks for the compliment!

Hopefully we can finally kill those two annoying problems!
Instead of plastic bobbing sport cars, now we have ships! :lol:

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

People!

This mod also changes the uboats, for more realistic behavior. They will accelerate and break slower, and they won't be bobbing around in normal weather. Solid heavy metal submarines instead.

If you don't want to change the uboat's behavior, just delete the folder "submarine" prior to enabling the mod.

I don't have any time to play the game, so if you people would be so kind to report failures in ships, like "costal merchants are bobbing yet" or "ocean liner *name* is accelerating too fast" or "I think that *name* destroyer is lacking turning abilities".

Report back anything you think is wrong, and we can discuss about it and fix, if that's the case.

I've changed around 250 ships by hand, so I might have forgotten to change some value in some ships (5 changes per file). I was tired, and if I mistakenly changed the wrong line in some ship, you might see some very bizarre behavior, and I can fix that, if you tell be about it.

The fact that the game is not CTD'ing with the mod is also a big step ahead, since I didn't do any tests after I finished changing the values. :lol:

Really hope you guys like it!

:up:

[asanovic7]

[quote]


3) Is it GWX compatible?

No.

GWX's campaign is based on the current ship's maneuverability speed. This mod corrects the ship's maneuverability speed, so it breaks some gwx aspects.

What does that mean? Means that I will have ships behaving like crazy in my game?

No. Means that ship's actions will be 10 times slower. All ships. They will take longer to turn, longer to accel and longer to stop. How this will affect the convoys? I don't know... We'll have to test it out and discover...

By logic, while the convoy is moving in a straight line, there will be no problems. When they turn from one waypoint to another, we may have some strange behavior. But from what I've seen already, they make a pretty mess while turning in groups since stock game, and also in supermods. Not becouse the supermods were not built correctly, but becouse the game engine sucks. Sucks badly. Ships go everywhere, go backwards, go right and left, like a blind man in a shootout.

Maybe making them slower will make it better. Maybe not. I don't know if I'll have the time to test it. But 99.9% of the time we spot a convoy, they are running a straight line, aren't them? So I guess we are ok.



:up:
hey!
Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but I sort of know convoys waypoints, arrivals etc. are based on maximum speed of the convoy (right?) plus I saw bbw react to this on this first page SO I ask this just to be shure..

This quote is not correct, right? Or it is?

edit: for goggy.. if you enable this mod after rbs effects(full or lite), your warships will have "normal" funnel smoke.. Because of the sim files thomsen's mod consists of.. That is the only "incompatibility" with this two mods.. I think.. NO BIGGY..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

[quote]


3) Is it GWX compatible?

No.

GWX's campaign is based on the current ship's maneuverability speed. This mod corrects the ship's maneuverability speed, so it breaks some gwx aspects.

What does that mean? Means that I will have ships behaving like crazy in my game?

No. Means that ship's actions will be 10 times slower. All ships. They will take longer to turn, longer to accel and longer to stop. How this will affect the convoys? I don't know... We'll have to test it out and discover...

By logic, while the convoy is moving in a straight line, there will be no problems. When they turn from one waypoint to another, we may have some strange behavior. But from what I've seen already, they make a pretty mess while turning in groups since stock game, and also in supermods. Not becouse the supermods were not built correctly, but becouse the game engine sucks. Sucks badly. Ships go everywhere, go backwards, go right and left, like a blind man in a shootout.

Maybe making them slower will make it better. Maybe not. I don't know if I'll have the time to test it. But 99.9% of the time we spot a convoy, they are running a straight line, aren't them? So I guess we are ok.



:up:
hey!
Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but I sort of know convoys waypoints, arrivals etc. are based on maximum speed of the convoy (right?) plus I saw bbw react to this on this first page SO I ask this just to be shure..

This quote is not correct, right? Or it is?

edit: for goggy.. if you enable this mod after rbs effects(full or lite), your warships will have "normal" funnel smoke.. Because of the sim files thomsen's mod consists of.. That is the only "incompatibility" with this two mods.. I think.. NO BIGGY..

There will always be some incompatibility with a mod. There's thousand mods out there.

But the funnel smoke is controlled by the .val file, and not by the .sim file.

I'm not sure why RB used the sim files for... I would have to check, as I don't know his intentions.

But like I always say, enable the two mods together and see what happens!

My mod consists only in the .sim files, so you have to enable my mod for last, otherwise you don't have squat.

:up:

[Jaeger]

Hi PT,

i would like to enjoy your great mod, but it doesnt roule... i am running stock, enabling your mod results in a CTD. do i need to install any other ships or anything else?



Jaeger

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

i would like to enjoy your great mod, but it doesnt roule... i am running stock, enabling your mod results in a CTD. do i need to install any other ships or anything else?



Jaeger

See the ships you have and just copy the equivalent folders to replace the .sim files.

:up:

[duif]

Left the harbor of Lorient last night in a IXD2. With this mod the ships in harbor look so much better!
Noticed two things:
- the harbor patrol, which escorts you out, runs aground in the first bend
- flakship 01 still seemed to be bobbling along

Keep it going!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Left the harbor of Lorient last night in a IXD2. With this mod the ships in harbor look so much better!
Noticed two things:
- the harbor patrol, which escorts you out, runs aground in the first bend
- flakship 01 still seemed to be bobbling along

Keep it going!!

Why did she ran aground? Can you be more especific? Didn't she manage to make the turn?

[SeaWolf U-57]

Totally no good on my machine at periscope depth in bad weather my IXB gets thrown out the water and then dives back down to 20+metres this continues up then down :o

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Totally no good on my machine at periscope depth in bad weather my IXB gets thrown out the water and then dives back down to 20+metres this continues up then down :o

If in your system it doesn't look good about the uboats, just delete the fold "submarine" inside my mod's folder prior to enabling, and that way you're just changing the ship's behavior.
:up:

[duif]

Quote:
Originally Posted by duif
Left the harbor of Lorient last night in a IXD2. With this mod the ships in harbor look so much better!
Noticed two things:
- the harbor patrol, which escorts you out, runs aground in the first bend
- flakship 01 still seemed to be bobbling along

Keep it going!!


Why did she ran aground? Can you be more especific? Didn't she manage to make the turn?

She obviously went wide in the turn, then got stuck. Because I was following her, so did my boat, but that was just my own stupid mistake

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by duif
Left the harbor of Lorient last night in a IXD2. With this mod the ships in harbor look so much better!
Noticed two things:
- the harbor patrol, which escorts you out, runs aground in the first bend
- flakship 01 still seemed to be bobbling along

Keep it going!!


Why did she ran aground? Can you be more especific? Didn't she manage to make the turn?

She obviously went wide in the turn, then got stuck. Because I was following her, so did my boat, but that was just my own stupid mistake

So, like I said before. GWX's ship's scripts are based in their current maneuverabilities, and so, if a ship's waypoints are tight inside a harbour, requesting the ship to turn and change speed quickly, if we change the ship's maneuverability to more realistic values, it won't be able to turn quickly enough.

So now we have two options:

1. Give the ships quicker turning speeds
2. Re-arrange the campaign script to fit the new maneuverability values.

I prefer the number 2.

It's pretty easy actually. You guys report me what ships are not turning quickly enough and I'll go there and fix the waypoints, to a more easy wayout, easier turns, further away from the terrain, so they can manage to move around without problems.

To have an idea of how tight it is, I've changed the merchants to diminish 33% of their turning ability, so compared to 100% they had, they still have 66%, which is a pretty high value. It's not like cutting in half, but just 1/3. If they are running aground, that means they were passing by pretty close to run aground before, and that needs fixing.

The problem is with IA. They are configured to, for example, go ahead flank in the direction of the land until 500 meters away, then they would just stop or turn, cos they knew they have this ability. Now they don't have it anymore, but they don't know it. So they still try to do those amazing sport cars maneuvers, and end up screwing themselves.

This is a problem that we will have to fix slowly along the following months, by mutual cooperation. People report ships running aground, when and where, and I fix the waypoints.

Remember that I didn't change the destroyers turning ability, just the merchants and alikes. So it's not a lot to fix, since there's not that much merchant ships going in and out of the harbour.

[johan_d]

"Remember that I didn't change the destroyers turning ability"

Damn!

[Graf Paper]

I wish this mod or a similar fix would be a part of GWX 3.0 or else it's going to require troubleshooting the waypoints and ships all over again when GWX 3 is released.

Don't forget that the barriers, sub nets, and mines are the reason why the harbor escort ship has to make such frequent and sharp turns while guiding your u-boat out of the harbor.

Until this gets fixed, it might be best to use SH3 Commander's "Start At Sea" feature to skip having to transit the harbor.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I wish this mod or a similar fix would be a part of GWX 3.0 or else it's going to require troubleshooting the waypoints and ships all over again when GWX 3 is released.

Don't forget that the barriers, sub nets, and mines are the reason why the harbor escort ship has to make such frequent and sharp turns while guiding your u-boat out of the harbor.

Until this gets fixed, it might be best to use SH3 Commander's "Start At Sea" feature to skip having to transit the harbor.

Not quite.

1. So far we have just one complain about ships running aground. Just one.
2. Just because a ship is not managing to follow it's designed waypoints, doesn't mean we have to forget about the mod and use the old ships. No mod ever borns perfect.

This is V1.0. Look at the sound pack, or the water mod!!! They all sucked at version 1.0! Look at where they stand now! And they still have a lot to improve! I'm working on sun's reflection on the water for the water mod right now, to a more realistic approach.

Every time I look at something I have done yesterday, I find a lot of flaws. Flaws that I didn't see when I was doing it. So I'm improving all my mods, day by day, everytime I have a better idea, and time to execute it.

You guys have the fixed idea of giving up from a mod once you find a flaw. Jeez! You guys need to look at the bigger picture! We are fixing something very important, that has never been fixed before, and that makes a hell of a difference for the realism and gameplay.

If this mod has a flaw, I'LL FIX IT!
Dammit!

I'll fix this until it reaches the best level possible allowed by SH3 engine. It doesn't matter if I have to stay awake during the night and have to work in the following morning... screw it! I'm gonna do it!

Not because it will make SH3 better...
Not because people here deserves better ships...
Not because it will make the world a better place to live...
But because I can!

I'm compulsive!

Don't ever tell me I can't do something... I die trying!

It will take longer and it will be harder without feedback from everybody here, but I'll get there!

So instead of saying "this mod breaks that and so I'll stop using"
Say something more constructive, like "thomsen, you must fix this and that".

So then, in the next morning you'll find an update for the mod in my Filefront page.

That's how it works.

:up:

[sabretwo]

PT,

In addition to giving more room on the waypoints near land, it might be a good idea to reduce the speed of vessels near land or that require tight corners. Lower speed may give them more time to maneuver the turn.

I like this idea, but I see where it conflicts with existing mod scripts. I'll try to be conscious of this issue when working on the revised Med Campaign. I like the idea a lot and would like the campaign to be fully compatible with your mod.

Keep up the good work, PT!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

PT,

In addition to giving more room on the waypoints near land, it might be a good idea to reduce the speed of vessels near land or that require tight corners. Lower speed may give them more time to maneuver the turn.

I like this idea, but I see where it conflicts with existing mod scripts. I'll try to be conscious of this issue when working on the revised Med Campaign. I like the idea a lot and would like the campaign to be fully compatible with your mod.

Keep up the good work, PT!

It's not necessary to reduce their speeds. They're already quite slow.

I just need to know what ships are running aground and where, so I can shorten the waypoints to be further away from the land. Piece of cake!

:up:

[Vader 1]

PT in case we forgot......thanks again for all your hard work..:up: :up:

Your mods are the main reason I still play SH3..

Have a Beck on me :yep:

Vader

[Sag75]

HI PT, so, I tried your mod and it appears good as first impression. :cool:

In torpedo training, I haven't seen any more super-car ships: their behaviour was pretty heavy. They can be sunk by torpedoes as well. In convoy attack training, I saw a DD avoiding a stopped ship hit by me. :up:

Then I played a Campain. I tried to cross a minesweeper route in the Brest harbour: she tried to avoid me and her manouver was successful, without any sudden back course. :up: Maybe she went too much close to me because of the nature of ship avoiding manouver in SH3 (ships try to pass by your stern). In open sea, I encountered a convoy, I tried there some tests and ships seem work fine. ...Maybe DDs seem slow???:hmm:

Moreover, I enconutered a single DD (Q&R class), she was able to get from 30kts to 11kts in 1,5 minutes...is it reasonable??:hmm:

I used VII type, she was more stable :up:


My set up is SH3+GWX2.1-april.fix, + lifedebries, and I didn't notice any issues during the play.


the test goes on......:up: ....I need a nice storm!:huh:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

HI PT, so, I tried your mod and it appears good as first impression. :cool:

In torpedo training, I haven't seen any more super-car ships: their behaviour was pretty heavy. They can be sunk by torpedoes as well. In convoy attack training, I saw a DD avoiding a stopped ship hit by me. :up:

Then I played a Campain. I tried to cross a minesweeper route in the Brest harbour: she tried to avoid me and her manouver was successful, without any sudden back course. :up: Maybe she went too much close to me because of the nature of ship avoiding manouver in SH3 (ships try to pass by your stern). In open sea, I encountered a convoy, I tried there some tests and ships seem work fine. ...Maybe DDs seem slow???:hmm:

Moreover, I enconutered a single DD (Q&R class), she was able to get from 30kts to 11kts in 1,5 minutes...is it reasonable??:hmm:

I used VII type, she was more stable :up:


My set up is SH3+GWX2.1-april.fix, + lifedebries, and I didn't notice any issues during the play.


the test goes on......:up: ....I need a nice storm!:huh:

30 to 11 in 1,5min?
looks good!
It takes longer to get speed, but to lose speed it's faster.

DD's seems slow?
No.
I didn't change their speeds in waypoints, just their accelerating ability.

Thank you for the feedback! :up:

[asanovic7]

about the funnel smokes and the sim val thing..
Maybe you are right..
I forgot.. :rotfl:
Cheers

p.s. didn't have time yet to test it..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

about the funnel smokes and the sim val thing..
Maybe you are right..
I forgot.. :rotfl:
Cheers

p.s. didn't have time yet to test it..

Who has time?

[asanovic7]

English are .. well they are as they are :rotfl:
But I saw in movies they have a great saying for occasions like this, though poetic they may seem..

Bollocks..

:up:

p.s. I can picture pt with a bird, on some beach flushing his poetic onslaught and watching runways?

[Jaeger]

Hi PT, your mod doesnt seem to be compatible to stock sh3. i deleted all unused ships in your folder, but i get an error when entering the mission. i have some small mods enabled, nothing concerning ships. my os is vista, any ideas?

[Sag75]

DDs seemed slow to me because were in a 4kts running convoy. So, they modified their speed to 6kts but no more.. probably because of ships presence. Than I saved the game.. so I need more time to monitor their behaviour.

The battle with single DD was good, I mean, she pointed at me, speeding up from 25kts to 30kts. At ca 3000m she dropped to 12kts in 1,5min. Than I summerged and followed the DD using periscope. She started pinging me, passing by the stern at 10kts, than I launched a torpedo.........

I think the mod is (almost) fully GWX compatible, we may need to modify the point 3 in the first page..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

English are .. well they are as they are :rotfl:
But I saw in movies they have a great saying for occasions like this, though poetic they may seem..

Bollocks..

:up:

p.s. I can picture pt with a bird, on some beach flushing his poetic onslaught and watching runways?

I'm not sure what do you mean... :hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, your mod doesnt seem to be compatible to stock sh3. i deleted all unused ships in your folder, but i get an error when entering the mission. i have some small mods enabled, nothing concerning ships. my os is vista, any ideas?

Can you take a screenshot of your mods and the error please?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

DDs seemed slow to me because were in a 4kts running convoy. So, they modified their speed to 6kts but no more.. probably because of ships presence. Than I saved the game.. so I need more time to monitor their behaviour.

The battle with single DD was good, I mean, she pointed at me, speeding up from 25kts to 30kts. At ca 3000m she dropped to 12kts in 1,5min. Than I summerged and followed the DD using periscope. She started pinging me, passing by the stern at 10kts, than I launched a torpedo.........

I think the mod is (almost) fully GWX compatible, we may need to modify the point 3 in the first page..

What I said about GWX's compatibility stands correct.
I just said that, in clear english, this mod MIGHT screw up some waypoints on some occasions, due to the longer time ships take to maneuver around.
But I also said that this is easy to fix. I just need to know what ships to fix, the work around to fix each of those ships to working waypoints is less then 5 minutes.

[Sag75]

Hi PT, that's ok, it was just a my opinion,

here some considerations:

Flower Corvette:
she run over me at 11kts. Then began a turn (full rudder) and her speed dropped at 5-6kts (too slow?:hmm:). When she toke the straight run, the speed arised at 12kts (from 6kts) in 2 minutes: it sounds good :up:. Maybe the turn radius seems too large for this kind ship, almost 300m :hmm:. She can drop the speed from 12kts to 5kts in 1minute. When she rammed me, she ordered back course (looking her propeller), but she wasn't able to invert the run suddently, so it's in agree with RL :up:.

Town class DD:
She can turn at 10kts and the speed drops from 30kts to 12kts in 1,5minutes. :up: The turn radius seems okay..

[Jaeger]

Hi PT, your mod doesnt seem to be compatible to stock sh3. i deleted all unused ships in your folder, but i get an error when entering the mission. i have some small mods enabled, nothing concerning ships. my os is vista, any ideas?

Can you take a screenshot of your mods and the error please?

there is no error, there is a CTD. can anyone try this mod in stock sh3, please?

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5274/jsgmesh3jn5.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jsgmesh3jn5.jpg)http://img221.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Mikhayl is correct.

This mod was intended to be used with gwx 2.1 and also community ships.

You can try downloading the community ships and see if it works.

But if GWX changed ANY ship's id, you'll get a CTD with this mod.

Have problems with gwx? Don't like it?

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

That way you can continue without gwx and have the ships mod.

How many ships you see in your sea folder? Icebergs and buoys don't count.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, that's ok, it was just a my opinion,

here some considerations:

Flower Corvette:
she run over me at 11kts. Then began a turn (full rudder) and her speed dropped at 5-6kts (too slow?:hmm:). When she toke the straight run, the speed arised at 12kts (from 6kts) in 2 minutes: it sounds good :up:. Maybe the turn radius seems too large for this kind ship, almost 300m :hmm:. She can drop the speed from 12kts to 5kts in 1minute. When she rammed me, she ordered back course (looking her propeller), but she wasn't able to invert the run suddently, so it's in agree with RL :up:.

Town class DD:
She can turn at 10kts and the speed drops from 30kts to 12kts in 1,5minutes. :up: The turn radius seems okay..

This is looking very good.
I'll take a look in the flower corvette.
Thanks for pointing out!
:up:

[Sag75]

Hi, just a guess: I played your mod 6 times in campain, accademy and single mission..... maybe it was a case... but I observed all merchants encountered by me proceeding at 4kts!

for example, in PQ-17 and Ice Baby 1 single missions, all convoy run at 4kts. In Accademy, in Torpedo Attack and Convoy Training, the same. Yesterday, the convoy encountered in St George's Channel during my testing campain was running at 4kts also. This doesn't apply to DD cruise..

However, I need more observations in game to confirm this....

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi, just a guess: I played your mod 6 times in campain, accademy and single mission..... maybe it was a case... but I observed all merchants encountered by me proceeding at 4kts!

for example, in PQ-17 and Ice Baby 1 single missions, all convoy run at 4kts. In Accademy, in Torpedo Attack and Convoy Training, the same. Yesterday, the convoy encountered in St George's Channel during my testing campain was running at 4kts also. This doesn't apply to DD cruise..

However, I need more observations in game to confirm this....

Their normal speed would be between 4 and 7 knts.

However, if they were turning (rudder), their speed would slow down a tad.

[Jaeger]

Mikhayl is correct.

This mod was intended to be used with gwx 2.1 and also community ships.

You can try downloading the community ships and see if it works.

But if GWX changed ANY ship's id, you'll get a CTD with this mod.

Have problems with gwx? Don't like it?

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

That way you can continue without gwx and have the ships mod.

How many ships you see in your sea folder? Icebergs and buoys don't count.

i am not using gwx because of two points:
at first, i think you have to know the stock game before using a supermod. by playing this way, you are able to appreciate the tons of detail work.

second:
using a supermod (like gwx) forces the player to be with the authors in all points of game balance. i am not! the AI is unrealistic (surface night attacs in early war are not possible), the loading times (as a result of the tons of new units?) are too high. also the sinking time is too long. because of this reason, i dont use OLC's ubermod, it forces me to use a 16km atmosphere, which seems not realistic to me. i like to build my sh3 by myself. when playing, i mention a "problem", after this i look for a modssolution. this is the way i play. GWX gives a lot of ideas, what is possible in sh3, so i am glad to have it. sometimes, i try to take some features (like the notail mod) out of gwx.

i hope gwx3 will give players the possibility to enable the campaign (for loading time purposes), extra units (same purpose) and AI (game balance, reality pruposes) in JSGME. By doing so, all the questions like "how can i change this" will end...

so, back to topic: i think mikhayl is right, there is a complication because of the cloned ships.

in my ships folder, there are only the stock units (49 ships). does the community ships mod reduce loading performance?

edit: ctd with community ships mod enabled first.

edit2: PT, can you tell me how to change the specific values in the sim files? (s3d is installed on my rig)

[Sag75]

Hi, just a guess: I played your mod 6 times in campain, accademy and single mission..... maybe it was a case... but I observed all merchants encountered by me proceeding at 4kts!

for example, in PQ-17 and Ice Baby 1 single missions, all convoy run at 4kts. In Accademy, in Torpedo Attack and Convoy Training, the same. Yesterday, the convoy encountered in St George's Channel during my testing campain was running at 4kts also. This doesn't apply to DD cruise..

However, I need more observations in game to confirm this....

Their normal speed would be between 4 and 7 knts.

However, if they were turning (rudder), their speed would slow down a tad.


Thanks, but during merchant zig-zagging, the speed drop to 2kts, so it might be better arise the cruising speed up to 6-7kts, so during zig-zagging the speed will drop to 3-4kts.

For instance, the cruising speed for Liberty Ship is 11kts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Ship

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Mikhayl is correct.

This mod was intended to be used with gwx 2.1 and also community ships.

You can try downloading the community ships and see if it works.

But if GWX changed ANY ship's id, you'll get a CTD with this mod.

Have problems with gwx? Don't like it?

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

That way you can continue without gwx and have the ships mod.

How many ships you see in your sea folder? Icebergs and buoys don't count.

i am not using gwx because of two points:
at first, i think you have to know the stock game before using a supermod. by playing this way, you are able to appreciate the tons of detail work.

second:
using a supermod (like gwx) forces the player to be with the authors in all points of game balance. i am not! the AI is unrealistic (surface night attacs in early war are not possible), the loading times (as a result of the tons of new units?) are too high. also the sinking time is too long. because of this reason, i dont use OLC's ubermod, it forces me to use a 16km atmosphere, which seems not realistic to me. i like to build my sh3 by myself. when playing, i mention a "problem", after this i look for a modssolution. this is the way i play. GWX gives a lot of ideas, what is possible in sh3, so i am glad to have it. sometimes, i try to take some features (like the notail mod) out of gwx.

i hope gwx3 will give players the possibility to enable the campaign (for loading time purposes), extra units (same purpose) and AI (game balance, reality pruposes) in JSGME. By doing so, all the questions like "how can i change this" will end...

so, back to topic: i think mikhayl is right, there is a complication because of the cloned ships.

in my ships folder, there are only the stock units (49 ships). does the community ships mod reduce loading performance?

edit: ctd with community ships mod enabled first.

edit2: PT, can you tell me how to change the specific values in the sim files? (s3d is installed on my rig)

I think that would be easier for you to install GWX and use mods (or mod yourself) the things you don't like, to fit your taste.

Example: With gwx installed, you don't like how the ships identify you too soon? Change the settings in sensors.cfg to fit your taste. You don't like how the destroyers have amazing precision with the deckgun? Change the settings in sim.cfg to fit your taste.

You are totally wrong about the 16km environment. The human eye can spot a ship up to 30 km distance. In the 8km environment, the crew will identify a ship between 5-6km distance, using binoculars. Are you kidding me?

If you prefer to change the ships yourself, here's the data you'll need to change.

Open each .sim file in S3D.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6575/30504911cg6.jpg

1. gc_height = 0,1
2. surface -> drag -> LR and UD = 0,75
3. propulsion = 10% of atual value (ex. 12000 = 1200)
4. rudder -> drag -> 0,02 for merchants and 0,03 for non-merchants.

1. That will assure more stability to ships
2. That will assure more stability to ships
3. That will make ships have more real maneuverability
4. That will make ships have more real maneuverability

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi, just a guess: I played your mod 6 times in campain, accademy and single mission..... maybe it was a case... but I observed all merchants encountered by me proceeding at 4kts!

for example, in PQ-17 and Ice Baby 1 single missions, all convoy run at 4kts. In Accademy, in Torpedo Attack and Convoy Training, the same. Yesterday, the convoy encountered in St George's Channel during my testing campain was running at 4kts also. This doesn't apply to DD cruise..

However, I need more observations in game to confirm this....

Their normal speed would be between 4 and 7 knts.

However, if they were turning (rudder), their speed would slow down a tad.


Thanks, but during merchant zig-zagging, the speed drop to 2kts, so it might be better arise the cruising speed up to 6-7kts, so during zig-zagging the speed will drop to 3-4kts.

For instance, the cruising speed for Liberty Ship is 11kts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Ship

Changing the ship's cruising speed you take months. You'd have to do it one by one, and their waypoints aswell.

It's not a setting "cruising speed" in ship's data. It's the whole script in campaign.

I won't change that.

I'll reduce the drag up,down,left,right of the mod. That will allow them to turn without losing much speed, but wil also make them bob around 25% more. Let's see.

[Sag75]

Hi PT, sorry for my anxiety, maybe what I reported was just a pure case...:huh: ..because this night I encountered several merchants and one convoy. All of them at 7-8kts! :up: A task force was also reported cruising at 8kts.

Finally I was in a storm! Ships have behaved very well, in a more heavy fashion! :up: In this occasion, a small freighter cruising at 7kts dropped her speed to 4-5kts when started zig-zagging. I think is good, maybe in SH3 the speed loss in the turning is not so proportional with the straight run one, ..anyway, that's it!


So, I'd like know opinions by other people here!

It seems an already good newborn mod :know: !!

Thanks!!

(tests go on..)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

So, I'd like know opinions by other people here!


Me too, but looks like just a couple of people are using the mod.

Nobody says anything in here. :shifty:

[Graf Paper]

I've got this mod lined up in my GWX installation, PT, but I'm having a difficult time finishing my various SH3 installations. :damn:

I just rebuilt my computer with a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM this past weekend and have been working on completing a fresh installation of WinXP SP3 and all my software.

As it is, I skipped nearly everything else so I could go ahead and have SH3 to play. All my programming apps, graphics apps, and other games can wait until later. I MUST HAVE my SH3 now!

Once I do get GWX sorted out, I promise I'll give you a full report on my impressions of your ships mod. ;)

[Sag75]

I tested some DDs attack tactics and jams.

The two DDs considered here (I report only Evart class and CaptainI class) approach you at 6-7kts instead of 10kts because they are zigzagging (but I saw a Clemson class turning at 10kts). When they start the straight run against you, the speed increase to 11-12kts, with small route adjustments. When they pass over you, they launch the DCs and accelerate to 15kts, and start the turn. Thus the speed drop to 6-7kts again, until they take an other linear run to intercept you.

If you launch a jam, the DD (I saw only the Evart class, about 1100tons) doesn't stop suddently and comes back but brakes from 10kts to 2-3kts in 30-45sec, then comes back at 2-3kts searching for you.:up: When she understands it was a jam, she starts again the search speeding up to 6-7kts in about 1min.


Now some consideration: now could be more difficult evading the escort.. bacause DDs proceed at 6kts during the approach! So, they can hear you better ..but probably not :hmm:, because DD's propellers rpm is the same, 6kts are essentially due to the hull drag....

[IFRT-WHUFC]

I've just noticed that the ship NTIT_ is missing from my game can you tell me which ship it is? and where i might be able to find it?

Thanks
Rick

[java`s revenge]

I am testing this mod.

That what i have seen in bad weather is that the speed of your sub
is dropping. For example i have setted 10kts and some later it drops to
5/6 knots. But i see this as in real life.

Great mod !

[piri_reis]

Hi PT, The little time I tested this mod, it looks like the ships were having hard time turning. Eg: Even with full rudder the small escort out of Lorient made the turn with difficulty, lagging behind, not being able to escort me out properly.

Did the PQ17 single mission, after taking out a tanker in the middle of convoy, the 2 ships immediatly behind tried to avoid the slow sinking ship but couldnt turn in time, they kept backing up and coming close to the wreck and each other, convoy was way away when they were back on route.

All around good idea :up: just needs some tweaking, I still need to test more, will be reporting again, obviously more results need to be heard by users of this mod.


IFRT-WHUFC, the ship is RMS Titanic by VonDos, check his shipyard thread.

[Jaeger]

Mikhayl is correct.

This mod was intended to be used with gwx 2.1 and also community ships.

You can try downloading the community ships and see if it works.

But if GWX changed ANY ship's id, you'll get a CTD with this mod.

Have problems with gwx? Don't like it?

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

That way you can continue without gwx and have the ships mod.

How many ships you see in your sea folder? Icebergs and buoys don't count.

i am not using gwx because of two points:
at first, i think you have to know the stock game before using a supermod. by playing this way, you are able to appreciate the tons of detail work.

second:
using a supermod (like gwx) forces the player to be with the authors in all points of game balance. i am not! the AI is unrealistic (surface night attacs in early war are not possible), the loading times (as a result of the tons of new units?) are too high. also the sinking time is too long. because of this reason, i dont use OLC's ubermod, it forces me to use a 16km atmosphere, which seems not realistic to me. i like to build my sh3 by myself. when playing, i mention a "problem", after this i look for a modssolution. this is the way i play. GWX gives a lot of ideas, what is possible in sh3, so i am glad to have it. sometimes, i try to take some features (like the notail mod) out of gwx.

i hope gwx3 will give players the possibility to enable the campaign (for loading time purposes), extra units (same purpose) and AI (game balance, reality pruposes) in JSGME. By doing so, all the questions like "how can i change this" will end...

so, back to topic: i think mikhayl is right, there is a complication because of the cloned ships.

in my ships folder, there are only the stock units (49 ships). does the community ships mod reduce loading performance?

edit: ctd with community ships mod enabled first.

edit2: PT, can you tell me how to change the specific values in the sim files? (s3d is installed on my rig)

I think that would be easier for you to install GWX and use mods (or mod yourself) the things you don't like, to fit your taste.

Example: With gwx installed, you don't like how the ships identify you too soon? Change the settings in sensors.cfg to fit your taste. You don't like how the destroyers have amazing precision with the deckgun? Change the settings in sim.cfg to fit your taste.

You are totally wrong about the 16km environment. The human eye can spot a ship up to 30 km distance. In the 8km environment, the crew will identify a ship between 5-6km distance, using binoculars. Are you kidding me?

If you prefer to change the ships yourself, here's the data you'll need to change.

Open each .sim file in S3D.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6575/30504911cg6.jpg

1. gc_height = 0,1
2. surface -> drag -> LR and UD = 0,75
3. propulsion = 10% of atual value (ex. 12000 = 1200)
4. rudder -> drag -> 0,02 for merchants and 0,03 for non-merchants.

1. That will assure more stability to ships
2. That will assure more stability to ships
3. That will make ships have more real maneuverability
4. That will make ships have more real maneuverability

:up:

thanks for your replay, i will change the values for myself. and i think you are right, i will give gwx a try and modifie it for my taste. the reason against this were my modding skills. when i wanted to modifie things in the past, i didnt know where to look for it. for example the sensors thingy: i was not sure if there is only one file (sensors.cfg) where changes are needed for editing the skills of the opponents watchcrews. but i think, its time to learn the file structures and edit things for my own taste. before i can take gwx as a base, i need skills about the campaigne files (for better performance). i will learn, when there are questions, i know lots of guys who will help :up:

another point (i know it is OT, but give me one sentence:up: ) is the distance of view: the limitation is not the human eyeball, it is the earth curvature and the hight of your position. there is a small rule of thumb for this: radical of your height in meter multiplied by 3.57

example: the bridges height of an u boat is 5 meters. radical of 5 is 2.2 multiplied by 3.57 is 7.9 km

if your target is higher, you can see it beyond the horizon (his masts). because of this, 9 km stock range is quite ok, i think.


greetz, Jaeger

[Webster]

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

If you prefer to change the ships yourself, here's the data you'll need to change.

Open each .sim file in S3D.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6575/30504911cg6.jpg

1. gc_height = 0,1
2. surface -> drag -> LR and UD = 0,75
3. propulsion = 10% of atual value (ex. 12000 = 1200)
4. rudder -> drag -> 0,02 for merchants and 0,03 for non-merchants.

1. That will assure more stability to ships
2. That will assure more stability to ships
3. That will make ships have more real maneuverability
4. That will make ships have more real maneuverability

:up:

so just to be clear on this:

1. controls the pitch and roll effect by changing the center of gravity
2. controls acceleration and slowing of ships by changing the ships drag
3. controls acceleration of ships by changing the engine power
4. controls turning radius of ships by changing the amount of drag the rudder has

am i understanding that correctly? :hmm:

and with #2 you changed it to (drag -> LR and UD = 0,75) and i want to understand how did you arrive at those numbers from (drag -> LR and UD = 1,0) because i might want to try a different setting and wish to understand it better to know what numbers to try

[johan_d]

Finally time to test.. left Lorient, saw no ill effects.. all seem normal.
Now in the open, hunting for prey.. will report back if we survive!

One of the best mods avail ? we shall see!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I've got this mod lined up in my GWX installation, PT, but I'm having a difficult time finishing my various SH3 installations. :damn:

I just rebuilt my computer with a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM this past weekend and have been working on completing a fresh installation of WinXP SP3 and all my software.

As it is, I skipped nearly everything else so I could go ahead and have SH3 to play. All my programming apps, graphics apps, and other games can wait until later. I MUST HAVE my SH3 now!

Once I do get GWX sorted out, I promise I'll give you a full report on my impressions of your ships mod. ;)

No problem, buddie! Hope you get your sh3 running asap! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I tested some DDs attack tactics and jams.

The two DDs considered here (I report only Evart class and CaptainI class) approach you at 6-7kts instead of 10kts because they are zigzagging (but I saw a Clemson class turning at 10kts). When they start the straight run against you, the speed increase to 11-12kts, with small route adjustments. When they pass over you, they launch the DCs and accelerate to 15kts, and start the turn. Thus the speed drop to 6-7kts again, until they take an other linear run to intercept you.

If you launch a jam, the DD (I saw only the Evart class, about 1100tons) doesn't stop suddently and comes back but brakes from 10kts to 2-3kts in 30-45sec, then comes back at 2-3kts searching for you.:up: When she understands it was a jam, she starts again the search speeding up to 6-7kts in about 1min.


Now some consideration: now could be more difficult evading the escort.. bacause DDs proceed at 6kts during the approach! So, they can hear you better ..but probably not :hmm:, because DD's propellers rpm is the same, 6kts are essentially due to the hull drag....

Yes.

If we get the final impression that the ships are losing too much speed on the turns, I'll have to cut back about 25% of the ship's drag, which will increase the roll and pitch. Let's see further ahead about this issue.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I've just noticed that the ship NTIT_ is missing from my game can you tell me which ship it is? and where i might be able to find it?

Thanks
Rick

That would be the RMS Titanic.

Search in the forum and you'll see the thread for it.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I am testing this mod.

That what i have seen in bad weather is that the speed of your sub
is dropping. For example i have setted 10kts and some later it drops to
5/6 knots. But i see this as in real life.

Great mod !

That depends. If you're using my Water Mod, your sub won't lose that much speed on a storm as in gwx. The wave sizes are much smaller.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, The little time I tested this mod, it looks like the ships were having hard time turning. Eg: Even with full rudder the small escort out of Lorient made the turn with difficulty, lagging behind, not being able to escort me out properly.

Did the PQ17 single mission, after taking out a tanker in the middle of convoy, the 2 ships immediatly behind tried to avoid the slow sinking ship but couldnt turn in time, they kept backing up and coming close to the wreck and each other, convoy was way away when they were back on route.

All around good idea :up: just needs some tweaking, I still need to test more, will be reporting again, obviously more results need to be heard by users of this mod.


IFRT-WHUFC, the ship is RMS Titanic by VonDos, check his shipyard thread.

I think we can reduce the dragging by 25%. That way, the ships won't lose that much speed while turning, although the ships will roll and pitch 25% more.

About the small escort, I think I accidently traded her configuration for a merchant ships, so she have 33% less rudder effect. I'll fix that right away!

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Mikhayl is correct.

This mod was intended to be used with gwx 2.1 and also community ships.

You can try downloading the community ships and see if it works.

But if GWX changed ANY ship's id, you'll get a CTD with this mod.

Have problems with gwx? Don't like it?

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

That way you can continue without gwx and have the ships mod.

How many ships you see in your sea folder? Icebergs and buoys don't count.

i am not using gwx because of two points:
at first, i think you have to know the stock game before using a supermod. by playing this way, you are able to appreciate the tons of detail work.

second:
using a supermod (like gwx) forces the player to be with the authors in all points of game balance. i am not! the AI is unrealistic (surface night attacs in early war are not possible), the loading times (as a result of the tons of new units?) are too high. also the sinking time is too long. because of this reason, i dont use OLC's ubermod, it forces me to use a 16km atmosphere, which seems not realistic to me. i like to build my sh3 by myself. when playing, i mention a "problem", after this i look for a modssolution. this is the way i play. GWX gives a lot of ideas, what is possible in sh3, so i am glad to have it. sometimes, i try to take some features (like the notail mod) out of gwx.

i hope gwx3 will give players the possibility to enable the campaign (for loading time purposes), extra units (same purpose) and AI (game balance, reality pruposes) in JSGME. By doing so, all the questions like "how can i change this" will end...

so, back to topic: i think mikhayl is right, there is a complication because of the cloned ships.

in my ships folder, there are only the stock units (49 ships). does the community ships mod reduce loading performance?

edit: ctd with community ships mod enabled first.

edit2: PT, can you tell me how to change the specific values in the sim files? (s3d is installed on my rig)

I think that would be easier for you to install GWX and use mods (or mod yourself) the things you don't like, to fit your taste.

Example: With gwx installed, you don't like how the ships identify you too soon? Change the settings in sensors.cfg to fit your taste. You don't like how the destroyers have amazing precision with the deckgun? Change the settings in sim.cfg to fit your taste.

You are totally wrong about the 16km environment. The human eye can spot a ship up to 30 km distance. In the 8km environment, the crew will identify a ship between 5-6km distance, using binoculars. Are you kidding me?

If you prefer to change the ships yourself, here's the data you'll need to change.

Open each .sim file in S3D.


1. gc_height = 0,1
2. surface -> drag -> LR and UD = 0,75
3. propulsion = 10% of atual value (ex. 12000 = 1200)
4. rudder -> drag -> 0,02 for merchants and 0,03 for non-merchants.

1. That will assure more stability to ships
2. That will assure more stability to ships
3. That will make ships have more real maneuverability
4. That will make ships have more real maneuverability

:up:

thanks for your replay, i will change the values for myself. and i think you are right, i will give gwx a try and modifie it for my taste. the reason against this were my modding skills. when i wanted to modifie things in the past, i didnt know where to look for it. for example the sensors thingy: i was not sure if there is only one file (sensors.cfg) where changes are needed for editing the skills of the opponents watchcrews. but i think, its time to learn the file structures and edit things for my own taste. before i can take gwx as a base, i need skills about the campaigne files (for better performance). i will learn, when there are questions, i know lots of guys who will help :up:

another point (i know it is OT, but give me one sentence:up: ) is the distance of view: the limitation is not the human eyeball, it is the earth curvature and the hight of your position. there is a small rule of thumb for this: radical of your height in meter multiplied by 3.57

example: the bridges height of an u boat is 5 meters. radical of 5 is 2.2 multiplied by 3.57 is 7.9 km

if your target is higher, you can see it beyond the horizon (his masts). because of this, 9 km stock range is quite ok, i think.

greetz, Jaeger

But you're missing the point here.

It's not the mast you spot, it's the huge amount of smoke coming out of the funnel, into the air.

In OLCE2, at 15km scene, most of the time I can't see the ship, but I can see a lot of smoke in the air.

Savvy?

:up:

[Jimbuna]

Woah!....Connect 4 :lol: :up:

http://www.sevenagain.co.uk/assets/Connect%204.jpg

[Philipp_Thomsen]

The only thing I can do is to teach you how to change the files yourself.

If you prefer to change the ships yourself, here's the data you'll need to change.

Open each .sim file in S3D.


1. gc_height = 0,1
2. surface -> drag -> LR and UD = 0,75
3. propulsion = 10% of atual value (ex. 12000 = 1200)
4. rudder -> drag -> 0,02 for merchants and 0,03 for non-merchants.

1. That will assure more stability to ships
2. That will assure more stability to ships
3. That will make ships have more real maneuverability
4. That will make ships have more real maneuverability

:up:

so just to be clear on this:

1. controls the pitch and roll effect by changing the center of gravity
Like a pendulum effect.
2. controls acceleration and slowing of ships by changing the ships drag
Nope, it control how "heavy" the ship behaves. More drag means it's more difficult for the wave to bound the ship up and down, left and right. If you let the drag=zero, the ships will behave like a rubber duck on a bathub.
3. controls acceleration of ships by changing the engine power
Like when you put the 5th gear on your car at 10mph and try to accelerate.
4. controls turning radius of ships by changing the amount of drag the rudder has
Yep! Ships that heavy and that big don't turn like sport cars!
am i understanding that correctly? :hmm:

and with #2 you changed it to (drag -> LR and UD = 0,75) and i want to understand how did you arrive at those numbers from (drag -> LR and UD = 1,0) because i might want to try a different setting and wish to understand it better to know what numbers to try

The 1.0 value is cos I was trying to make the ships steadier as possible. But I see that this great value (1.0) is making the ships lose too much speed while turning. I kinda had that one coming. That's why I said 0.75, cos that's the new value I'll put in all ships. The V1.0 of this mod has 1.0 in all ships, which I'll change to 0,75, which seems to be the right value.

Above in green.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Woah!....Connect 4 :lol: :up:



Daydreming...? :hmm:

[Graf Paper]

Originally Posted by jimbuna
Woah!....Connect 4

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Classically, elegantly, and hilariously understated. :up:

[Sag75]

I think we can reduce the dragging by 25%. That way, the ships won't lose that much speed while turning, although the ships will roll and pitch 25% more.



..I like the way the ships now take the waves in their bow: you can see the bow enters in the water and then comes up... I think it's a nice effect that should be kept.. Anyway, just a bit more roll in small ships/boats may be expected in heavy seas.

I departed from Lorient and saw the minesweeper have difficulties to exit the harbour. However, PT you may make the minesweeper parameters closer to the original one: in fact the minesweeper is only in german harbours.......

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I think we can reduce the dragging by 25%. That way, the ships won't lose that much speed while turning, although the ships will roll and pitch 25% more.



..I like the way the ships now take the waves in their bow: you can see the bow enters in the water and then comes up... I think it's a nice effect that should be kept.. Anyway, just a bit more roll in small ships/boats may be expected in heavy seas.

I departed from Lorient and saw the minesweeper have difficulties to exit the harbour. However, PT you may make the minesweeper parameters closer to the original one: in fact the minesweeper is only in german harbours.......

Yeah. There's some ships with wrong data, I've checked. There's one DE with merchant data. I messed up some things, but they're all easy to fix.

:up:

[MLF]

PT

Have just been attacking a convoy with this mod enabled. Immersion at 100%. This is really good. No more bobbing bathtub models.:cool: Watched destroyers and corvettes attacking - brilliant. Merchants plodding along but pitching and rolling realistically.:sunny:

Thanks for this.

Regards

MLF

[Webster]

and with #2 you changed it to (drag -> LR and UD = 0,75) and i want to understand how did you arrive at those numbers from (drag -> LR and UD = 1,0) because i might want to try a different setting and wish to understand it better to know what numbers to try

The 1.0 value is cos I was trying to make the ships steadier as possible. But I see that this great value (1.0) is making the ships lose too much speed while turning. I kinda had that one coming. That's why I said 0.75, cos that's the new value I'll put in all ships. The V1.0 of this mod has 1.0 in all ships, which I'll change to 0,75, which seems to be the right value.

Above in green.

:up:

ok so even though it is shown as a comma in the file the "," is really a decimal point in all these values?

[Sag75]

That's good!:huh:
PT, during a convoy attack, your mod produces more messed ships!:up:

I increased the contrast in this image to show you the confusion into convoy array after a torpedo attack:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8733/sh3img16112008181255192br2.th.png (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img16112008181255192br2.png)http://img515.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

This is why large ships take now more time to turn or modify their speed! I saw large merchants go across part of the convoy, messing and/or stopping closer ships!

nice!:up: :arrgh!:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

and with #2 you changed it to (drag -> LR and UD = 0,75) and i want to understand how did you arrive at those numbers from (drag -> LR and UD = 1,0) because i might want to try a different setting and wish to understand it better to know what numbers to try

The 1.0 value is cos I was trying to make the ships steadier as possible. But I see that this great value (1.0) is making the ships lose too much speed while turning. I kinda had that one coming. That's why I said 0.75, cos that's the new value I'll put in all ships. The V1.0 of this mod has 1.0 in all ships, which I'll change to 0,75, which seems to be the right value.

Above in green.

:up:

ok so even though it is shown as a comma in the file the "," is really a decimal point in all these values?

In my head, 1.0 and 1,0 are the same sh!t.

But yeah, the 1.0 or 1,0 are decimal points.
:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

That's good!:huh:
PT, during a convoy attack, your mod produces more messed ships!:up:

I increased the contrast in this image to show you the confusion into convoy array after a torpedo attack:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8733/sh3img16112008181255192br2.th.png (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img16112008181255192br2.png)http://img515.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

This is why large ships take now more time to turn or modify their speed! I saw large merchants go across part of the convoy, messing and/or stopping closer ships!

nice!:up: :arrgh!:

Anything I can do for realism! :up:

[Uber Gruber]

Just wondering if an NYGM 3.1 version will be made available ? Or if you want to mai lme the changes you made I could have a look at putting a compatible version together ?

:yep:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Just wondering if an NYGM 3.1 version will be made available ? Or if you want to mai lme the changes you made I could have a look at putting a compatible version together ?

:yep:

Why would this ships be incompatible to NYGM? :hmm:

[asanovic7]

English are .. well they are as they are :rotfl:
But I saw in movies they have a great saying for occasions like this, though poetic they may seem..

Bollocks..

:up:

p.s. I can picture pt with a bird, on some beach flushing his poetic onslaught and watching runways?
I'm not sure what do you mean... :hmm:

That poem that occupies the space on thread.. :D

[Philipp_Thomsen]

English are .. well they are as they are :rotfl:
But I saw in movies they have a great saying for occasions like this, though poetic they may seem..

Bollocks..

:up:

p.s. I can picture pt with a bird, on some beach flushing his poetic onslaught and watching runways?
I'm not sure what do you mean... :hmm:

That poem that occupies the space on thread.. :D

You mean my signature?

I freakin love it!

It's the most absurd truth, TIME IS ALL WE HAVE!

The rest is just illusion.

[Uber Gruber]

Why would this ships be incompatible to NYGM? :hmm:

I've absolutely no idea, perhapps I should give it a go and see what happens but thought i'd just ask first.

I'll let you know the result.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Why would this ships be incompatible to NYGM? :hmm:

I've absolutely no idea, perhapps I should give it a go and see what happens but thought i'd just ask first.

I'll let you know the result.

It's just ships!

The worst thing that can happen is if NYGM has a different ship, one ship that I didn't change, and that will result in that particular ship not having the stability and maneuverability my ships have.

Not a biggie.

[Sag75]

Hi PT, yesterday I was cruising in the Messina Strait and I saw two Soldati class DD run aground. There was a small convoy too, but cruised fine.

[NGT]

(sorry for low English)

Hello Sir Thomsen

From 15/11/2008 (US: 11/15/2008) you belongs to a very special and little family of moders: the family of "look how to do, look how I did, and why".

Between the members of this family: JScones, skwasjer, Timetraveler they gives us very useful tools for moding, Racerboy, Diving Duck they publish special files for SH3MiniTweaker for everybody who would like modify the work they did. Some others start tutorials for moding.

Like we say worldwide: Better learn somebody fishing than give him a fish.


Besides, with others, like Asanovits7, Wolf359, Mikhayl, Privateer, you keep this game alive.

Thanks for the ships, thanks for the water 3.3.:rock:

I start thinking that the "Boys from Brazil" are the best here. . .

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, yesterday I was cruising in the Messina Strait and I saw two Soldati class DD run aground. There was a small convoy too, but cruised fine.

Destroyers run aground since stock!

The AI is just too stupid... :nope:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

(sorry for low English)

Hello Sir Thomsen

From 15/11/2008 (US: 11/15/2008) you belongs to a very special and little family of moders: the family of "look how to do, look how I did, and why".

Between the members of this family: JScones, skwasjer, Timetraveler they gives us very useful tools for moding, Racerboy, Diving Duck they publish special files for SH3MiniTweaker for everybody who would like modify the work they did. Some others start tutorials for moding.

Like we say worldwide: Better learn somebody fishing than give him a fish.


Besides, with others, like Asanovits7, Wolf359, Mikhayl, Privateer, you keep this game alive.

Thanks for the ships, thanks for the water 3.3.:rock:

I start thinking that the "Boys from Brazil" are the best here. . .



:lol:

Thank you very much! Very kind words, sir! It's very nice to hear something like this once in a while.

And you english is not as bad as you think! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

New version is out.

Check first post for details.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

From the first post:

New version is out!

Changelog:

1. Changed all the ships to lose 25% less speed while turning.
2. Changed all escorts to have twice turning ability. In RL, escorts had amazing turning radius.
3. Deleted the submarine folder. No longer changing the uboats simulation, it was causing too much complaints and bugs.


:up:

[itman]

PT: Havin just launched a new carreer and now this! So, is it save to enable your chips in midpatrol?

And do I have to install the community-ship too?

Thank you for this mod.

cheers

[Philipp_Thomsen]

PT: Havin just launched a new carreer and now this! So, is it save to enable your chips in midpatrol?

And do I have to install the community-ship too?

Thank you for this mod.

cheers

You can try to enable in mid patrol, but it might crash. If it happens, disable, go to port and re-enable it.

You should install the community ships too. If you don't want to, just see what ships you have (in sea folder) and delete all those ones you don't have in my mod's folder. If you enable any ship you don't have, the game might crash.

:up:

[itman]

ok.

Oh, well Kapitän z. See Manfred Schubitz just has to return to his base...

I'll install the community-chips too.

cheers

[msalama]

So, is it save to enable your chips in midpatrol?

FYI, I installed and upgraded this mod during an active patrol and suffered no ill effects whatsoever. YMMV though, but just so you know :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

My philosophy is that you'll never know until you try.

Plus I've always been much more curious than cautious. :lol:

[Myxale]

I'm on my way home, once there (appr. 5 days) I'll give this baby a try!:up:

Cheers!

[mengle]

Mister Thomsen you should work with GWX team to ad this in GWX 3.0
and than i have a challenge for you , longer wake files for ships :D
I think you the only one left who is so devoted with mods for SHIII :rock:
thank you for this

[h.sie]

Mister Thomsen you should work with GWX team to ad this in GWX 3.0
and than i have a challenge fot you , longer wake files for ships :D
I think you the only one left who is so devoted with mods for SHIII :rock:
thank you for this

yessss! that would be cool! same with the dials mod!!

[Graf Paper]

Zen Master Caine (nvdrifter) did a longer ship wakes mod.

However, if you don't use that mod or the wakes need to be even longer, then a new mod for that might be just the ticket. :yep:

For the u-boats, it will need to be made compatible with Rubini's Water Streams and Racerboy's Exhaust Smoke, though. Both of those mods use the same file you'd need to change the u-boat wakes.

There would need to be four versions... for the wakes alone, with Water Streams, with Exhaust Smoke, and with both Water Streams and Exhaust Smoke.

And then there's all the other ships to be modded, each and every one will need their values changed and tested to look right. You don't want a trawler trailing the same wake as a battleship.

So what do you say, PT? :hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Mister Thomsen you should work with GWX team to ad this in GWX 3.0
and than i have a challenge for you , longer wake files for ships :D
I think you the only one left who is so devoted with mods for SHIII :rock:
thank you for this


I bet gwx crew would looooove having me on the team...:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Zen Master Caine (nvdrifter) did a longer ship wakes mod.

However, if you don't use that mod or the wakes need to be even longer, then a new mod for that might be just the ticket. :yep:

For the u-boats, it will need to be made compatible with Rubini's Water Streams and Racerboy's Exhaust Smoke, though. Both of those mods use the same file you'd need to change the u-boat wakes.

There would need to be four versions... for the wakes alone, with Water Streams, with Exhaust Smoke, and with both Water Streams and Exhaust Smoke.

And then there's all the other ships to be modded, each and every one will need their values changed and tested to look right. You don't want a trawler trailing the same wake as a battleship.

So what do you say, PT? :hmm:

I say that the wake is actually controlled by a TGA file, and won't be incompatible with anything.

And I also say that I've already modded the wakes for myself, long ago... :lol:

[mengle]

already modded the wakes for yourself, long ago... :shifty: :shifty: :shifty: , Mister Thomsen you are a naughty boy:rotfl: :rotfl:

[Graf Paper]

Actually, the particle generators that control how the wake behaves are in the .val files. Merely adding a .tga to Textures will not do much. You have to control factors such as spray, lifetime, and decay for the wakes to look right.

That's what I say. :p

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Actually, the particle generators that control how the wake behaves are in the .val files. Merely adding a .tga to Textures will not do much. You have to control factors such as spray, lifetime, and decay for the wakes to look right.

That's what I say. :p

Different wakes means a deformation on the wake.
Deformation is a word derivated from "form".
The tga file controls the form of the wake.

If you want it to last longer, easy, just change the controls of lifetime.
If you want it to be larger, around the ship, with a better form, you'll have to mess with the tga file.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

In the shipwake controller you can adjust the width of the wake as well as its fixed length and so on, I changed lots of them and never touched a .tga :hmm:

Really? :hmm:

I've never looked very close into the val files... I'll give it a crack! :up:

[asanovic7]

Thomsen sometimes states things out of the blue and confuses the lost.. :rotfl:

Watched Brasil last night thomsen.. Although Quim caught the starlight, Brasil played really well..
Shure showed them whos the colony now, eh? :rotfl:
:up:
Although Argentina fan myself(:roll: ), always like Brasil when they play football and when they are not asking the judge for favours like last night..
And one more thing.. Check this out..
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=aMaO5jPVro0

As for don Fabio..
1. Croatia
2. Germany

English are allready champions of the world.. :D
Who's next?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Thomsen sometimes states things out of the blue and confuses the lost.. :rotfl:

Watched Brasil last night thomsen.. Although Quim caught the starlight, Brasil played really well..
Shure showed them whos the colony now, eh? :rotfl:
:up:
Although Argentina fan myself(:roll: ), always like Brasil when they play football and when they are not asking the judge for favours like last night..
And one more thing.. Check this out..
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=aMaO5jPVro0

As for don Fabio..
1. Croatia
2. Germany

English are allready champions of the world.. :D
Who's next?

I lost faith in football. Didn't even watch the game last night. It's all about money.

Lately I'm more into snooker. Have been practicing 4 hours a day, and 12 hours a day on the weekends. Getting pretty good at it. Won a low ranking event last weekend! :D

[asanovic7]

:o :o :o

Have you lost confidence in yourself?
Are you full of doubt?
WHat is wrong?
You can always tell your problems here!
This can be your confessing room..
If you like it that way..
Remember, no matter how hard the road is, there is always hope it'll be better along it..

p.s. GEEZ, robertson, I watched snooke on eurosport this week.. Guy had to put it into corner hole, easy shot, even I, worst billiard player ever :shifty: , couldn't miss it.. And what he did!?
He shot it with great power and knocked the ball of the bankine out of table!?
I just tuned in and don't know the damn rules so I was just hoping that was deliberate..


But I think you are again messing it out :rotfl:
Cheers!

gotta go..

Heres 5 stars robertson!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Nope, I prefer snooker over football for several reasons.

The main reason is that you dont depend on the guy next to you.
Win or lose? All depends exclusively on you!
You gotta trust on you, depend on you, make your own luck.

I hate sports where you depend on a group of people to get the results.
My mind is too creative, and while most people look in a straight line, I'm searching for alternatives.

I love snooker cos I don't have to necessarily pot the ball. I can do whatever I want in a snooker table. I love to spin the ball 4 or 5 cushions and land on the next, instead of just get position with one or none cushions, like most players. I love to screw back the white ball an entire table, even if that makes the next shot harder. That is what gives me excitement, pleasure, fun! To follow my own creativity, to let my mind go travel. I don't give a sh!t about winning or losing, I just care about playing the best I can, do things people find too hard, or even impossible... be precise... be violent... to pot a ball so hard that the pocket breaks and everybody hear the bang, and in the very next shot, make the ball drift slowly and almost stop before falling in the pocket. I don't care about points, I just care about making things interesting, facinating, enjoyable.

With a mentality like that, I would never be happy playing in a team. The people in the team would expect me to play the basics, which I would not, and at the same time I would expect the team to be creative on the plays, which they would not do. Tried before, 15 minutes later, I'm pissed off and also the team. :nope:

THIS IS ART! POETRY IN MOTION!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZRyNEihYA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgxWd0djt5I :rock:

[h.sie]

hi PT,

looking forward for your final version. thanks for your work and brilliant ideas.....

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

hi PT,

looking forward for your final version. thanks for your work and brilliant ideas.....

h.sie

There's NEVER a final version. A mod can always be improved. For that to happen, I need you guys to feedback.

:up:

[Sag75]

Hi PT, here some feedback:

The minesweeper (Sperrbrecher class) sometime stops again near the coast in Lorient harbour.

DDs feel well, but maybe they accelerate too quickly yet (0-10kts in 35sec, 10-25kts in 1,5min):hmm:. But their speed in turning is fine, 10kts, 300m radius at full rudder :up:.

I think Flower corvette is yet a bit penalized in turning: in a convoy protected by only Flowers, I was able to run everywhere at 7-8kts, because Flowers was hunting me zig-zagging at 5-6kts! Anyway, they can turn in 200m radius, that's ok now (it's equal to our U-boat).

bye, thanks again for your work!:up:

[h.sie]

hi PT,

looking forward for your final version. thanks for your work and brilliant ideas.....

h.sie
There's NEVER a final version. A mod can always be improved. For that to happen, I need you guys to feedback.

:up:

hi PT,

I've written an java-application which reads in the sea-folder incl. the subfolders and automatically creates an ship ID manual in pdf-format from the data found there. only a few mouseclicks needed. now I think about editing binary files. after a learning period, it COULD be possible to write a program which automatically does, what you do manually and tedious: change floatingpoint-values in 200 or more .sim files. I'll do this for my personal use, but if you are interested, I'll share it with you, if it's done....but I cannot promise anything for now.....my programming skills are only average.

h.sie

[VikingGrandad]

November 18th.

10 days later, the new version is out, thanks to all your feedback.

Changelog:

1. Changed all the ships to lose 25% less speed while turning.
2. Changed all escorts to have twice turning ability. In RL, escorts had amazing turning radius.
3. Deleted the submarine folder. No longer changing the uboats simulation, it was causing too much complaints and bugs.

Hopefully I've killed the ship-running-aground-in-port bug. :up:


I tried v.1 of this mod the other night. I really like it. The ships do indeed look 'heavier' as they move through the sea.

Didn't notice any serious problems. The ships in a convoy I attacked had trouble getting back into formation, which to me looked more realistic. Even if some had collided (which they didn't), I think that would be realistic. Such collisions did occur, albeit usually at night or otherwise poor visibility, from what I've read.

Regarding improvement #2 in the new version, is this a fix for something you changed in v.1, or is it an improvement over the stock/GWX turning ability of escorts?

I'm looking forward to trying v.2 soon.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, here some feedback:

The minesweeper (Sperrbrecher class) sometime stops again near the coast in Lorient harbour.

DDs feel well, but maybe they accelerate too quickly yet (0-10kts in 35sec, 10-25kts in 1,5min):hmm:. But their speed in turning is fine, 10kts, 300m radius at full rudder :up:.

I think Flower corvette is yet a bit penalized in turning: in a convoy protected by only Flowers, I was able to run everywhere at 7-8kts, because Flowers was hunting me zig-zagging at 5-6kts! Anyway, they can turn in 200m radius, that's ok now (it's equal to our U-boat).

bye, thanks again for your work!:up:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll give a look at the minesweeper.

About the DDs, yes, they can accelerate faster then any other ship in the game. I think 35 seconds to go from 0 to 10 is good enough.

The flower corvette usually goes slow on it's own, not the mod's fault. But I'll give a look on what can be done!

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

hi PT,

looking forward for your final version. thanks for your work and brilliant ideas.....

h.sie
There's NEVER a final version. A mod can always be improved. For that to happen, I need you guys to feedback.

:up:

hi PT,

I've written an java-application which reads in the sea-folder incl. the subfolders and automatically creates an ship ID manual in pdf-format from the data found there. only a few mouseclicks needed. now I think about editing binary files. after a learning period, it COULD be possible to write a program which automatically does, what you do manually and tedious: change floatingpoint-values in 200 or more .sim files. I'll do this for my personal use, but if you are interested, I'll share it with you, if it's done....but I cannot promise anything for now.....my programming skills are only average.

h.sie

Sure, that would be great! :rock:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

November 18th.

10 days later, the new version is out, thanks to all your feedback.

Changelog:

1. Changed all the ships to lose 25% less speed while turning.
2. Changed all escorts to have twice turning ability. In RL, escorts had amazing turning radius.
3. Deleted the submarine folder. No longer changing the uboats simulation, it was causing too much complaints and bugs.

Hopefully I've killed the ship-running-aground-in-port bug. :up:


I tried v.1 of this mod the other night. I really like it. The ships do indeed look 'heavier' as they move through the sea.

Didn't notice any serious problems. The ships in a convoy I attacked had trouble getting back into formation, which to me looked more realistic. Even if some had collided (which they didn't), I think that would be realistic. Such collisions did occur, albeit usually at night or otherwise poor visibility, from what I've read.

Regarding improvement #2 in the new version, is this a fix for something you changed in v.1, or is it an improvement over the stock/GWX turning ability of escorts?

I'm looking forward to trying v.2 soon.

Thanks VG! :D

The V2 changes, fixes and improves some things. The ships were losing too much speed while turning. That I fixed. Also, there was about 10 ships I just forgot about doing, they had stock values. Fixed that also. Also improved the escorts, now they are turning properly.

The V2 changes ALL the ships again. It's a lot better then V1, you should trade! :up:

[Lanzfeld]

Hi PT,

Thanks for this mod.

Does this mod change the sink times from GWX at all? Please excuse my modding ignorance but I wondered since the ships seem "heavy" now.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

Thanks for this mod.

Does this mod change the sink times from GWX at all? Please excuse my modding ignorance but I wondered since the ships seem "heavy" now.

Well.. lemme think... :hmm:

The only thing I did related to sinking time was changing the center of gravity to a lower point... hmmm... maybe...

If I had to guess, I think that with this mod the ships will sink in about the same time as gwx, OR a little bit faster. This "little bit" is just a little bit really, few seconds.

If you guys want the ships to stay afloat longer, I can do that also. Can do it as a separate mod too...

:up:

[Sag75]

Yesterday I saw a ship go to the bottom in few seconds.. but others minutes, and others hours... so I don't think this mod modifies substantially the sinking time..

it's strictly dependending by hit position and weather conditions.

[msalama]

If you guys want the ships to stay afloat longer, I can do that also. Can do it as a separate mod too...


:hmm: Now that you mention it, many ships DO feel like they're going down a bit too fast. Depends on the circumstances of course, but I still sometimes wonder if it's that common even for a 2000-ton freighter to sink in mere minutes...

But that's just a feeling, nothing more. Or in other words, just my $0.000002 :ping:

[Jimbuna]

If you guys want the ships to stay afloat longer, I can do that also. Can do it as a separate mod too...


:hmm: Now that you mention it, many ships DO feel like they're going down a bit too fast. Depends on the circumstances of course, but I still sometimes wonder if it's that common even for a 2000-ton freighter to sink in mere minutes...

But that's just a feeling, nothing more. Or in other words, just my $0.000002 :ping:

Some vessels went down in under a minute...not even time for the crew to launch the lifeboats http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Jim is right.

Depending on where the water is coming in from, and where's the weight of the load balanced, in the right circunstances the ship can go down so fast that you'll miss the second torpedo.

Most of the time the water comes in and the air gets stucked, the ship behaves like a cork. Then slowly the air leaks, the water goes up and the ships goes down.

But if the air doesn't get stuck, the water comes in pretty fast and the ship goes down in a blink.

[Sag75]

Hi PT, the graph you'll find in this website may help in your mod tuning:

http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs4.htm

(even if I can't understand the origin of those data, I mean, are they true?)

Anyway, these data probably describe ships during normal operations, but I think a DD ordering ahead flank from dead stop to hunt out an U-boat may speed up faster!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT, the graph you'll find in this website may help in your mod tuning:

http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs4.htm

(even if I can't understand the origin of those data, I mean, are they true?)

Anyway, these data probably describe ships during normal operations, but I think a DD ordering ahead flank from dead stop to hunt out an U-boat may speed up faster!

Thank you very much!

I'll take a look at it right away! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

COME ON PEOPLE!

WHERE'S MY FEEDBACK???

I need something to reply to... I'm bored! :shifty:

[johan_d]

Did a fine job, sunk some.. no, I repeat no problems at all.

Its a long way to tipperary, but we get there! danke:up: Thompson!

[nikbear]

Ships seem to be more planted and roll alot less than before,they actually behave like huge steel monsters on the waves:up:had no sinking problems either!Fine piece of work:rock:

[WeeBubba]

Hi Phillip

I went to enable this mod but says will alter files already altered by 2 other mods i am running: Lifeboats&debris and StzSinkingShip Mods

Will this be a problem?

thanks

[nikbear]

Im running the Lifeboat/debris mod,with the rowers addon and having no problems at all,not tried the sinkingships mod so can't comment,try it and see,it's all JSGME enabled so you just fix anything easy if it causes problems:up:makes a big difference to ship behaviour! you'll have to alter your solutions acordingly,they no longer behave like speedboats:rock:but proper 5000+ steel hulks cutting through the waves,recommended:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi Phillip

I went to enable this mod but says will alter files already altered by 2 other mods i am running: Lifeboats&debris and StzSinkingShip Mods

Will this be a problem?

thanks

No problems with lifeboats&debris, this mod was made compatible to it.

About the StzSinkingShips, the purpose of that mod is to avoyd ships sinking on their own, and my mod also fix that, so you can disable Stz mod and enable mine.

Also, this ship mod works better with my water mod, so it's recommended you install both.

:up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Im running the Lifeboat/debris mod,with the rowers addon and having no problems at all,not tried the sinkingships mod so can't comment,try it and see,it's all JSGME enabled so you just fix anything easy if it causes problems:up:makes a big difference to ship behaviour! you'll have to alter your solutions acordingly,they no longer behave like speedboats:rock:but proper 5000+ steel hulks cutting through the waves,recommended:up:

Thank you sir, very kind words! :up:

[msalama]

Fine piece of work:rock:

Yep, this is an excellent mod. Definitely a keeper :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Fine piece of work:rock:

Yep, this is an excellent mod. Definitely a keeper :up:

Yeah, isn't it great how heavy the ships seems to be on the water now? :rock:

Thanks! :up:

[StarLion45]

:D Hi everyone:D
I read that people have CTD , the ships behavior is strange and so on:-?
I have never had such things regarding ships mod , why ?
I don't change all things , leave it like it is , and don't touch things:yep:
I stick with GWX 2.0/2.1 right now , and wait for the big release GWX3.0:p
Who knows what they have put into GWX3.0:p :p

[Philipp_Thomsen]

:D Hi everyone:D
I read that people have CTD , the ships behavior is strange and so on:-?
I have never had such things regarding ships mod , why ?
I don't change all things , leave it like it is , and don't touch things:yep:
I stick with GWX 2.0/2.1 right now , and wait for the big release GWX3.0:p
Who knows what they have put into GWX3.0:p :p

People said the same thing about gwx 2.0. :roll:

The fact is that some people care more about keeping it stable and dry, while other like to increment the imersion and eye-candy, trading for the eventual CTDs.

Although I must tell everyone here that I mainly use GWX + OLC + MY MODS and I DONT HAVE ANY CTDS!

So my mods are not the problem.
I think the problem is that little piece of hardware between the keyboard and the chair. :lol:

Sometimes the final user don't know exactly how things work and end up messing the game with multiple redundant mods.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

If people learned a little bit about mods and how they work, we wouldn't have this much CTDs.

I'll tell you what happens... a little story!

1. A guy comes to the forum, click in a mod's thread, don't read ANYTHING, look at the screenshots, think they are cool, download the mod, try to enable and get a CTD.

2. This guy comes back at the thread and says "your mod is causing a CTD on my computer, so I won't use it.

3. Other people read that, and decide to not install it, or blame the mod for any CTD that eventually happens.

Now, what people should know is this:

If you have CTDs, is because you're crapping your own installation cos you don't know sh!t about it. If you stop to READ THE F*CKING MANUAL, learn a bit about file system, mods and stuff, you would be able to enjoy more mods then you think the game can handle, and enjoy a more complete and imersive silent hunter 3.

I have the majority of mods from this community on my computer, and I can play with most of them enabled and play without CTDs.

Why? Cos I took my time to learn about how they work, what order they have to be enabled, what files should and shouldn't be overwritten, etc.

Mods are simple. Multiple mods are complex. Enabling multiple mods without stopping to think about it is like putting 32 engines on a car and no wheels. You have a lot of power to go nowhere.

You guys must know that when a modder makes a mod, he made that mod on top of other mods, mods that he's using. If you try a different configuration, it might be ok, or it might not. If you're getting a CTD, don't blame the modder, blame yourself.

Ask nicely here about the problem and ANY modder will be glad to think the problem thru for you, FOR FREE.

BUT FIRST, READ THE F*CKING MANUAL, SO YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING STUPID, AND DON'T ASK DUMB QUESTIONS.

The mod has no manual? No problem, READ THE F*CKING THREAD!

You'll learn a lot and you'll see that someone had the same problem you're having and somebody already told them how to fix it.

[StarLion45]

:D Hi there PT:D
I don't know much about what mod I will put there , and what mod I put here:-?
but I try to read as good I can , most of the CTD is caused by bad drivers I think:-?
I have use those same mods for almost a year now and they work fine for me:smug:
But if people do the changes in the gamefiles , they have to know how to do it:yep:
Otherwise CTD:dead: My self by the way , downloaded that special resolution file
" d3d9.dll " and did what it says , but strange behaviour in the game , and deleted it:yep: and now my game work almost perfectly . So my conclusions ?
Leave it as it is:p

[Kumando]

Bom mod brasuca :p

[Philipp_Thomsen]

:D Hi there PT:D
I don't know much about what mod I will put there , and what mod I put here:-?
but I try to read as good I can , most of the CTD is caused by bad drivers I think:-?
I have use those same mods for almost a year now and they work fine for me:smug:
But if people do the changes in the gamefiles , they have to know how to do it:yep:
Otherwise CTD:dead: My self by the way , downloaded that special resolution file
" d3d9.dll " and did what it says , but strange behaviour in the game , and deleted it:yep: and now my game work almost perfectly . So my conclusions ?
Leave it as it is:p

Complicated actually.

You play and you play until the time when you get bored and want something more, and improvement, something. Then you install, and it's great, but ctd. Then you try to fix it, and you end up fixing it, but those ctd's when you're imerse on a long patrol... they just... kill you inside. So dismotivating... that's why people just give up on it.

Me, I'm very persistent. I try and try until I make the game running as I want it to, even if I have to spend a whole month fixing mods to work together.

But to each his own I guess.. :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Bom mod brasuca :p

Thank You!!! :up:

[Sag75]

Hi, just coming back to your mod topic..:cool:

DDs behave well! I saw them try to avoid collision each others during the hunt. They can turn at 10kts or 6kts, and if they hunt you at 6-7kts it seems to me they can hear you better!:arrgh!:

Merchants behave in a very realistic way into the waves now:up: .. When they are in a convoy, they normally cruise at 4kts instead of 6-7kts. But alone merchants cruise at 5-7kts.... it's weird..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi, just coming back to your mod topic..:cool:

DDs behave well! I saw them try to avoid collision each others during the hunt. They can turn at 10kts or 6kts, and if they hunt you at 6-7kts it seems to me they can hear you better!:arrgh!:

Merchants behave in a very realistic way into the waves now:up: .. When they are in a convoy, they normally cruise at 4kts instead of 6-7kts. But alone merchants cruise at 5-7kts.... it's weird..

It's not weird, it's normal.

Lone merchants always travel faster! :up:

[wizardmatt]

Thomsen sometimes states things out of the blue and confuses the lost.. :rotfl:

Watched Brasil last night thomsen.. Although Quim caught the starlight, Brasil played really well..
Shure showed them whos the colony now, eh? :rotfl:
:up:
Although Argentina fan myself(:roll: ), always like Brasil when they play football and when they are not asking the judge for favours like last night..
And one more thing.. Check this out..
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=aMaO5jPVro0

As for don Fabio..
1. Croatia
2. Germany

English are allready champions of the world.. :D
Who's next?

Who's next? An all English Champion's League final (again), Aston Villa for the UEFA Cup, Ronnie O'Sullivan for the snooker World Championship, oh, and Hamilton to retain his title next year :p
God Save the Queen :rotfl:

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

I have a question. In your mod you set all "eng_power" values to 10% of the original values. But with the following exceptions:

1% for AC-4

30% for NBB_Nelson

100% for LC_MAL, NAMM, NCA_Norfolk, NF_boat_X, NHPB, NPTB, NPTL,
NPTR, NPTV, NPTV_KFK, NPT_Br, NPT_Ge, NPT_US, PBTrawler, RAF_HSL.

Did that happen intentionally or accidently?

Greetings and tanks for your work
h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hi PT,

I have a question. In your mod you set all "eng_power" values to 10% of the original values. But with the following exceptions:

1% for AC-4

30% for NBB_Nelson

100% for LC_MAL, NAMM, NCA_Norfolk, NF_boat_X, NHPB, NPTB, NPTL,
NPTR, NPTV, NPTV_KFK, NPT_Br, NPT_Ge, NPT_US, PBTrawler, RAF_HSL.

Did that happen intentionally or accidently?

Greetings and tanks for your work
h.sie

Those are all errors while typing. Really, all those ships??? :damn:

[msalama]

Ah-ha, I predict for a patch to pop up at some point then eh :ping: And if not, can someone post the correct values here so that we can change them ourselves?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Ah-ha, I predict for a patch to pop up at some point then eh :ping: And if not, can someone post the correct values here so that we can change them ourselves?

There's no need.

I see just two values wrong there, the 1% and the 30%.

The others at 100% were on purpose. Ships too light I didn't change the engine power. There's just no need. Ships with less then 500 tons, they just change speed very quickly, they're light.

I still don't have a reason big enough to release a new version. I'm waiting for more feedback, I need a stronger reason.

:up:

[h.sie]

Ah-ha, I predict for a patch to pop up at some point then eh :ping: And if not, can someone post the correct values here so that we can change them ourselves?

the intended values are 10% of the original values, which can be seen and edited using S3D.

[msalama]

the intended values are 10% of the original values, which can be seen and edited using S3D.

Yes, but I'd still like to hear what Philipp sez b/c even simple things sometimes get funny as they travel :hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I`ll give an example.

Row boats or PT boats. They can accelerate pretty fast, so it would be wrong to put 10% engine for them.

Boats with less then 500 tons, they also can accelerate pretty fast. So I say, let the small vessels just like they are now.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Heh...

I always thought that the ship's mod would cause more repercussion then the water mod...

:hmm:

[Sag75]

..some people thinks here shotting merchants is like shot balloons in a circus..

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:

[msalama]

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:

Definitely not, but I'm still starting to feel that perhaps some of those bigger ships are a bit _too_ underpowered now?

I was patrolling near Gibraltar yesterday in heavy seas, and bumped into this medium freighter (some 4000-5000 BRT) heading eastwards. The poor bugger was unable to do more than 2 knots in those circumstances, and needless to say was thus a sitting duck to my torpedoes. Hardly realistic either I'd say, because there was absolutely nothing he could've done in order to save his bacon! Not even if he'd seen me from afar...

So how about re-adjusting the engine parameters a bit still?

[SeaWolf U-57]

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:

Definitely not, but I'm still starting to feel that perhaps some of those bigger ships are a bit _too_ underpowered now?

I was patrolling near Gibraltar yesterday in heavy seas, and bumped into this medium freighter (some 4000-5000 BRT) heading eastwards. The poor bugger was unable to do more than 2 knots in those circumstances, and needless to say was thus a sitting duck to my torpedoes. Hardly realistic either I'd say, because there was absolutely nothing he could've done in order to save his bacon! Not even if he'd seen me from afar...

So how about re-adjusting the engine parameters a bit still?

At last someone who gets it if you take away the challenge of the kill and tone down the danger of attack from speedy warships then you might as well play SH4 that game is pretty much a duck shoot too. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

I think what is beginning to unfold is a realism that there was little wrong with the merchants in the first place, considering the restrictions placed upon us by the game code.

That someone wants to dabble and try out new ideas is fine.

But pleeeeeeze spare us the countless posts and pages of what we have here.

Better still...test the mod before it is released and spare people the anguish that is created in the ensuing confusion.

Good ideas generally achieve more when the homework has been well thought out in advance, backed up by adequate testing.

[MH]

This patch seems like ingenious idea but does it work or not?
Is it realistic but makes game play too easy or not?

I im now in 1939 with this patch installed and all seems fine for now but i wonder what will happen later on.
Anyways great thanks to PT for this and the water mod.
Question off topic a bit would it be possible technically to add water/wave reflection on ships hulls as the uboat has while submerged? (?caustic effect?).
Thnx a lot.

[Letum]

I think what is beginning to unfold is a realism that there was little wrong with the merchants in the first place, considering the restrictions placed upon us by the game code.

That someone wants to dabble and try out new ideas is fine.

But pleeeeeeze spare us the countless posts and pages of what we have here.

Better still...test the mod before it is released and spare people the anguish that is created in the ensuing confusion.

Good ideas generally achieve more when the homework has been well thought out in advance, backed up by adequate testing.

I disagree.
The mod is a vast improvement on SH3 and one of the most innovative mods
around.
The public testing is, for me, much appreciated transparency in the modding
process, a help for the modder and a great chance to try something before it is
all finalized. If you don't like it, you don't have to download it. You can always
wait until all issues are ironed out.

Lastly, it is a bit rich for a GWX member to complain about "countless posts and
pages". Besides, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it or take notice of it;
the same goes for this post.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yeah, sure, like Jimbuna could ever skip a post or a thread! :lol:

I think some of you people have lost the value of the simulation.

I mean, IMHO, if a guy comes and say "I prefer faster ships cos at least it's hard to torpedo it"... whatta hell? Trying to increase dificulty by turning a simulation into an arcade game?

Go the hell, I say.

You guys don't know what you want anymore. Always asking for more realism, and when you get it, you complain about.

I say the ships are much more realistic now.
I say shooting into plastic ships bobbing around just sucks.

Some people here at soooo bored with their own f*cking lifes that it's a pain for them to have this thread around, "disturbing" the forum. This thread or any other thread, cos they have nothing better to do with their lifes other then read this forum, and it's getting boring, not cos the mod is boring, but cos they are getting old as the game, and there's no turning back, the golden ages are gone for both.

The ships as they were are sh!t.

SH3 is a GREAT simulator, so it cannot foul in simple things as ship's sailing behavior.

If you were used to sh!t, and someone makes it better, you'll still prefer sh!t, cos you're used to. But that doesn't mean it's not sh!t.

Now, AS I TOLD BEFORE, RIGHT IN THE BEGGINING, this mod changes gameplay. First we fix the ships, and them we change the gameplay to fit it, go be easier or harder, according to necessity.

This mod is faaaaar from finished. But to make it better, is rather you say "maybe the ships need a little more power" then to say "it's too easy to torpedo ships and I'll kick my dog and my cat on the way out".

Some people around here still see LIFE in sh3, still enjoy it, still have their fun.

While others can't stand themselves and whine around the forums, trying to pick up a fight.

Why the hell am I here for, having no time to even play the game, but still modding, taking opinions and feedback, improving mods, helping people around to solve their issues? Very selfish of mine I guess?

For the first group, thanks for the feedback and for not giving up on this incredible simulator. :up:

*****Edited - NS

[Philipp_Thomsen]

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:

Definitely not, but I'm still starting to feel that perhaps some of those bigger ships are a bit _too_ underpowered now?

I was patrolling near Gibraltar yesterday in heavy seas, and bumped into this medium freighter (some 4000-5000 BRT) heading eastwards. The poor bugger was unable to do more than 2 knots in those circumstances, and needless to say was thus a sitting duck to my torpedoes. Hardly realistic either I'd say, because there was absolutely nothing he could've done in order to save his bacon! Not even if he'd seen me from afar...

So how about re-adjusting the engine parameters a bit still?

THIS IS A CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK! :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

This patch seems like ingenious idea but does it work or not?
Is it realistic but makes game play too easy or not?

I im now in 1939 with this patch installed and all seems fine for now but i wonder what will happen later on.
Anyways great thanks to PT for this and the water mod.
Question off topic a bit would it be possible technically to add water/wave reflection on ships hulls as the uboat has while submerged? (?caustic effect?).
Thnx a lot.

I never thought about it... Great Idea! :up:

I'll see if it's possible. If so, you're name will be on the credits!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

..some people thinks here shotting merchants is like shot balloons in a circus..

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:


What do you say about instead of having them 10% of engine power, give them 50% of engine power and lauch another beta-testing season? :hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Ah-ha, I predict for a patch to pop up at some point then eh :ping: And if not, can someone post the correct values here so that we can change them ourselves?

the intended values are 10% of the original values, which can be seen and edited using S3D.

About that tool of yours, what you think about changing all ships to have 3x more engine power and test it out? :hmm:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I think what is beginning to unfold is a realism that there was little wrong with the merchants in the first place, considering the restrictions placed upon us by the game code.

That someone wants to dabble and try out new ideas is fine.

But pleeeeeeze spare us the countless posts and pages of what we have here.

Better still...test the mod before it is released and spare people the anguish that is created in the ensuing confusion.

Good ideas generally achieve more when the homework has been well thought out in advance, backed up by adequate testing.

I disagree.
The mod is a vast improvement on SH3 and one of the most innovative mods
around.
The public testing is, for me, much appreciated transparency in the modding
process, a help for the modder and a great chance to try something before it is
all finalized. If you don't like it, you don't have to download it. You can always
wait until all issues are ironed out.

Lastly, it is a bit rich for a GWX member to complain about "countless posts and
pages". Besides, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it or take notice of it;
the same goes for this post.

Could not have spoker better! :up:

[Letum]

Is there now no chance of having the uboat acceleration decreased?

[Jimbuna]

I think what is beginning to unfold is a realism that there was little wrong with the merchants in the first place, considering the restrictions placed upon us by the game code.

That someone wants to dabble and try out new ideas is fine.

But pleeeeeeze spare us the countless posts and pages of what we have here.

Better still...test the mod before it is released and spare people the anguish that is created in the ensuing confusion.

Good ideas generally achieve more when the homework has been well thought out in advance, backed up by adequate testing.

I disagree.
The mod is a vast improvement on SH3 and one of the most innovative mods
around.
The public testing is, for me, much appreciated transparency in the modding
process, a help for the modder and a great chance to try something before it is
all finalized. If you don't like it, you don't have to download it. You can always
wait until all issues are ironed out.

Lastly, it is a bit rich for a GWX member to complain about "countless posts and
pages". Besides, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it or take notice of it;
the same goes for this post.

It certainly looks like we can agree on the latter points anyway.

I suppose disagreement is a form of 'agreement' in one way :lol:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I think the "heavy" part is fine but I think the cruising/max speed should remain more or less the same, but I suppose this will conflict with the acceleration rates.
Also I think some ships could use individual settings, for example the "4 stackers" Clemson/Town DDs were known for having a very large/slow turning radius. I guess you can keep your default "template" and then adjust if someone has some specific data on one particular ship :hmm:
I don't have the time for testing but I'm looking forward to the end result.

1. Ships speeds were not changed. Same as GWX. Problem is that, the heavy feeling effect takes out some speed from the ships. More "fricction" between the hull and the water. To fix that, I'll give the ships 3x more engine power.

2. Individual settings. For that, I'd need two things that I don't have: a) Invidivual historical data, and B) time.

This mod is still a child. Adolescence is coming, and soon manhood. :up:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Is there now no chance of having the uboat acceleration decreased?


I don't have anymore the normal gwx's .sim files for the subs.
People complained about the first version.
I have some new good ideas for subs now.
Can you upload a compressed file with only the .sim files of the uboats?
I'll include then the uboats for the third version of the mod, together with the new data for the ships.

:up:

[SeaWolf U-57]

Yeah, sure, like Jimbuna could ever skip a post or a thread! :lol:

I think some of you people have lost the value of the simulation.

I mean, IMHO, if a guy comes and say "I prefer faster ships cos at least it's hard to torpedo it"... whatta hell? Trying to increase dificulty by turning a simulation into an arcade game?

Go the hell, I say.

You guys don't know what you want anymore. Always asking for more realism, and when you get it, you complain about.

I say the ships are much more realistic now.
I say shooting into plastic ships bobbing around just sucks.

Some people here at soooo bored with their own f*cking lifes that it's a pain for them to have this thread around, "disturbing" the forum. This thread or any other thread, cos they have nothing better to do with their lifes other then read this forum, and it's getting boring, not cos the mod is boring, but cos they are getting old as the game, and there's no turning back, the golden ages are gone for both.

The ships as they were are sh!t.

SH3 is a GREAT simulator, so it cannot foul in simple things as ship's sailing behavior.

If you were used to sh!t, and someone makes it better, you'll still prefer sh!t, cos you're used to. But that doesn't mean it's not sh!t.

Now, AS I TOLD BEFORE, RIGHT IN THE BEGGINING, this mod changes gameplay. First we fix the ships, and them we change the gameplay to fit it, go be easier or harder, according to necessity.

This mod is faaaaar from finished. But to make it better, is rather you say "maybe the ships need a little more power" then to say "it's too easy to torpedo ships and I'll kick my dog and my cat on the way out".

Some people around here still see LIFE in sh3, still enjoy it, still have their fun.

While others can't stand themselves and whine around the forums, trying to pick up a fight.

Why the hell am I here for, having no time to even play the game, but still modding, taking opinions and feedback, improving mods, helping people around to solve their issues? Very selfish of mine I guess?

For the first group, thanks for the feedback and for not giving up on this incredible simulator. :up:

For the second group, honestly and from deep down, GFYS! :up:

And so speaks the self proclaimed king of the lemurs….
And the sense of power it brings makes him think he can use foul language and insult anyone
...like it my way or go away ,,,

[Letum]

Is there now no chance of having the uboat acceleration decreased?

I don't have anymore the normal gwx's .sim files for the subs.
People complained about the first version.
I have some new good ideas for subs now.
Can you upload a compressed file with only the .sim files of the uboats?
I'll include then the uboats for the third version of the mod, together with the new data for the ships.

:up:

GWX or standard?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Is there now no chance of having the uboat acceleration decreased?

I don't have anymore the normal gwx's .sim files for the subs.
People complained about the first version.
I have some new good ideas for subs now.
Can you upload a compressed file with only the .sim files of the uboats?
I'll include then the uboats for the third version of the mod, together with the new data for the ships.

:up:

GWX or standard?

GWX! :up:

[Letum]

LINK (http://files.filefront.com/Submarinerar/;12512518;/fileinfo.html)

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yeah, sure, like Jimbuna could ever skip a post or a thread! :lol:

I think some of you people have lost the value of the simulation.

I mean, IMHO, if a guy comes and say "I prefer faster ships cos at least it's hard to torpedo it"... whatta hell? Trying to increase dificulty by turning a simulation into an arcade game?

Go the hell, I say.

You guys don't know what you want anymore. Always asking for more realism, and when you get it, you complain about.

I say the ships are much more realistic now.
I say shooting into plastic ships bobbing around just sucks.

Some people here at soooo bored with their own f*cking lifes that it's a pain for them to have this thread around, "disturbing" the forum. This thread or any other thread, cos they have nothing better to do with their lifes other then read this forum, and it's getting boring, not cos the mod is boring, but cos they are getting old as the game, and there's no turning back, the golden ages are gone for both.

The ships as they were are sh!t.

SH3 is a GREAT simulator, so it cannot foul in simple things as ship's sailing behavior.

If you were used to sh!t, and someone makes it better, you'll still prefer sh!t, cos you're used to. But that doesn't mean it's not sh!t.

Now, AS I TOLD BEFORE, RIGHT IN THE BEGGINING, this mod changes gameplay. First we fix the ships, and them we change the gameplay to fit it, go be easier or harder, according to necessity.

This mod is faaaaar from finished. But to make it better, is rather you say "maybe the ships need a little more power" then to say "it's too easy to torpedo ships and I'll kick my dog and my cat on the way out".

Some people around here still see LIFE in sh3, still enjoy it, still have their fun.

While others can't stand themselves and whine around the forums, trying to pick up a fight.

Why the hell am I here for, having no time to even play the game, but still modding, taking opinions and feedback, improving mods, helping people around to solve their issues? Very selfish of mine I guess?

For the first group, thanks for the feedback and for not giving up on this incredible simulator. :up:

For the second group, honestly and from deep down, GFYS! :up:

And so speaks the self proclaimed king of the lemurs….
And the sense of power it brings makes him think he can use foul language and insult anyone
...like it my way or go away ,,,

You must remember the most important thing of all before start discussing with me:

Discussions and desagreenments are occupational theraphy for WOMEN!

[Jimbuna]

Yeah, sure, like Jimbuna could ever skip a post or a thread! :lol:

I think some of you people have lost the value of the simulation.

I mean, IMHO, if a guy comes and say "I prefer faster ships cos at least it's hard to torpedo it"... whatta hell? Trying to increase dificulty by turning a simulation into an arcade game?

Go the hell, I say.

You guys don't know what you want anymore. Always asking for more realism, and when you get it, you complain about.

I say the ships are much more realistic now.
I say shooting into plastic ships bobbing around just sucks.

Some people here at soooo bored with their own f*cking lifes that it's a pain for them to have this thread around, "disturbing" the forum. This thread or any other thread, cos they have nothing better to do with their lifes other then read this forum, and it's getting boring, not cos the mod is boring, but cos they are getting old as the game, and there's no turning back, the golden ages are gone for both.

The ships as they were are sh!t.

SH3 is a GREAT simulator, so it cannot foul in simple things as ship's sailing behavior.

If you were used to sh!t, and someone makes it better, you'll still prefer sh!t, cos you're used to. But that doesn't mean it's not sh!t.

Now, AS I TOLD BEFORE, RIGHT IN THE BEGGINING, this mod changes gameplay. First we fix the ships, and them we change the gameplay to fit it, go be easier or harder, according to necessity.

This mod is faaaaar from finished. But to make it better, is rather you say "maybe the ships need a little more power" then to say "it's too easy to torpedo ships and I'll kick my dog and my cat on the way out".

Some people around here still see LIFE in sh3, still enjoy it, still have their fun.

While others can't stand themselves and whine around the forums, trying to pick up a fight.

Why the hell am I here for, having no time to even play the game, but still modding, taking opinions and feedback, improving mods, helping people around to solve their issues? Very selfish of mine I guess?

For the first group, thanks for the feedback and for not giving up on this incredible simulator. :up:

For the second group, honestly and from deep down, GFYS! :up:

And so speaks the self proclaimed king of the lemurs….
And the sense of power it brings makes him think he can use foul language and insult anyone
...like it my way or go away ,,,

You must remember the most important thing of all before start discussing with me:

Discussions and desagreenments are occupational theraphy for WOMEN!

Discussions and, on occasion, disagreements are almost commonplace on forums.

They are usually acceptable as long as they are kept within reasonable parameters and hopefully meant in a constructive manner/context.

One question PT.......Who precisely are you referring to in that 'second group' ?

Do you consider me a member of this group ?

That thumbs up smiley is little more than a pathetic attempt at diluting what is a seriously derigitory and disgusting way to behave towards anybody on a forum :nope:

[Sag75]

..some people thinks here shotting merchants is like shot balloons in a circus..

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:


What do you say about instead of having them 10% of engine power, give them 50% of engine power and lauch another beta-testing season? :hmm:


Hi PT, try to get the acceleration slower means follow two alternative ways:
1. lower the engines power. But it seems slow down the cruising speed, probably because there is a friction parameter (?), so a lowered power can't speed up the ship to scripted speed.
2. Increase the drag or friction or whatever parameter that increases the ship inertia and drag.

I think you can work on second suggestion, it could be more realistic. I think a ship has a lot of engine power, but the enormous drag/inertia makes she feeling heavy.

what your thought?

bye!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Some people are very contradictory in this forum.

First throw a rock in the lake to cause disturbance on the water, and then fight back when a second person throws another rock in the same lake, trying to defend the calmness of the water.

It's just another way to cause disturbance on the forum due to lack of excitement in life.

Look from where all this discussion originated from. Who's guilty? Who threw the first rock?

I don't want this anymore.

I don't want discussions, provocations. I want peace.

I want to reply at questions and feedback in my thread, and not to provocations of picky people.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

..some people thinks here shotting merchants is like shot balloons in a circus..

probably a slow heavy realistic ship is boring! :huh:


What do you say about instead of having them 10% of engine power, give them 50% of engine power and lauch another beta-testing season? :hmm:


Hi PT, try to get the acceleration slower means follow two alternative ways:
1. lower the engines power. But it seems slow down the cruising speed, probably because there is a friction parameter (?), so a lowered power can't speed up the ship to scripted speed.
2. Increase the drag or friction or whatever parameter that increases the ship inertia and drag.

I think you can work on second suggestion, it could be more realistic. I think a ship has a lot of engine power, but the enormous drag/inertia makes she feeling heavy.

what your thought?

bye!

The drag does not disallow the ship to acchive maximum speed. It only makes them take longer to do that.
The drag affects the ships more while turning. In a straight line, not that much. It also affects them more in heavy seas, cos the ship bounces up and down, left and right, meaning more drag.
It's normal that if a ship has a cruising speed of 6 kts, it will be lowered to something like 3-4 kts in a very heavy sea.
Increasing the drag too much will result in ships behaving like icebergs. Rock solid, no pitch and roll from the waves, which can be irrealistic if taken to absurd high levels, and also meaning that they would virtually stop dead in the water if they try to turn left/right.

There's also a third factor called "Engine Max Force", which hasn't been explored so far. It's not being used. Maybe it's the answer.

But I believe that triplicating the actual engines power (v2.0) will pretty much be the keyshot to fix the bigger bugs.

:up:

[Onkel Neal]

Some people are very contradictory in this forum.

First throw a rock in the lake to cause disturbance on the water, and then fight back when a second person throws another rock in the same lake, trying to defend the calmness of the water.

It's just another way to cause disturbance on the forum due to lack of excitement in life.

Look from where all this discussion originated from. Who's guilty? Who threw the first rock?

I don't want this anymore.

I don't want discussions, provocations. I want peace.

I want to reply at questions and feedback in my thread, and not to provocations of picky people.

That's fine, but please use civil langauge. :yep:

Neal

[Sag75]

:hmm: It's depending how is modeled, anyway in RL the drag can avoid the reaching of higher speeds. The boat speed is proportional with propeller revolution, but if propeller revolution increases too much, the water/hull interaction (=drag) limits the boat to achieve higher speed. The only way to avoid it is going out from the water (i.e. plane on the water surface or use hydrofoils to emerge all the hull from water).

On the other side, the inertia is an other thing. It's the opposition by a mass body to a force. So, higher is inertia and longer is the time to achieve the speed.


Anyway, I toke a look in a random ship via S3D. If you click on "drug" in .sim file, there is a notice about drag that is expressed as F=C*V^2. I guess F is the resistance force, V squared is the ship speed, C should be a coefficent.
I saw there is a "displacement" parameter in upper position.... could be linked to inertia in your opinion??

[h.sie]

hi PT,

currently working on a java program that automatically changes "eng_power" and "drag" (which are responsible for the maneuvarability of the ships, if I'm right), depending on the UnitType (Freighter, Destroyer and so on). changes can then be made very easily, for example "all ships eng_power = 30% of the original" or so.

sim-files can already be read, analysed and debugged. the next step is to write new values into the sim-files, but that will take some time......I have problems with the sim data-structure, with the float-to-byte[] conversion (and with my free time).

I see a problem with eng_power: to lower it will decrease the acceleration as desired, but it will also decrease the maximum speed of the ship, since the engine has to overpower the friction resistance which is not zero.

h.sie

[Sag75]

I see a problem with eng_power: to lower it will decrease the acceleration as desired, but it will also decrease the maximum speed of the ship, since the engine has to overpower the friction resistance which is not zero.


Exactly, this is in agree with drag defenition. We probably need to modify the desplacement.. maybe 1ton in SH3 program is not managed as 1ton in RL....:hmm:

So a RL 10,000ton ship should be converted into (let's guess) 100,000ton SH3 ship to have the same feeling (??)

[asanovic7]

Just read some of the posts here.. Not all, no, but few..

Have to say, phoenixx, you really are a real tester for snooker skills of thomsen and in times it seems you seem to disturb the concentrating balance of the game.. :doh:
Or the calm lake..

:rotfl:

Yeah, pt, what's that other group? :up:

Kidding, kidding.. :rotfl:

The only problem here is IN MY OPINION is if you take away the speed of the ships, you have to take away the speed of the uboat, otherwise, you are like a new line of xxxiii(would go out 1948) in this game..

p.s. wizardmatt, a late responsefrom me! boooooooooooo!
Forza ferrari, that welsh guy in thomsens sportis the best(are there any welsh guys, and what is aston villa? :rotfl: (Wayne Rooney, half Irish, half animal :rotfl: , at last 100)