we need to stop static damage

[gimpy117]

this is the most unrealistic thing i can think of!!!!

Every time i die it is from this blasted damage!
I mean come on flooding you can't see or fix that can sink your boat!!!????:/\\!!
how can i turn it off??

[gimpy117]

no, really, can someone help???

[Nisgeis]

Sorry Gimpy, I don't get this problem. Do you mean it's damage that you have no evidence of in the damage control screen and all of a sudden your boat sinks?

Is it possible you've hit a mine?

[Xantrokoles]

Sry I can't understand ur question...:doh:

But I think u need this:
open the NSS_[sub].zon file of ur [sub] class with Silent 3ditor or Mini tweaker
U find it in the following path: Data/Submarine/NSS_[Sub]
Take the Hitpoints X2
(with S3d u find i under ColisionableObject->Properties)
for example:Hit_Points=550 ---> Hit_Points=1100

[gimpy117]

ok thanks, i gotta get the tweaker

pretty much dynamic damage you can see and fix,
static on the other hand you can't see or fix, so you randomly start sinking!

[tater]

You are talking about damage to the hull. It's not unrealistic at all. Some damage can only be fixed in a drydock. You have a magical hull % indicator, what more could you ask for?

For DC attacks, it only happens when the DC explodes within its min radius of you. That's like 4m. If you have several DCs hitting you within 4m a lot of the time, you need to learn how to fight the boat better.

If you take such damage on the surface, lol, stop using a submarine as a surface combatant.

If you sustain major hull damage, go home.

[Xantrokoles]

You are talking about damage to the hull. It's not unrealistic at all. Some damage can only be fixed in a drydock. You have a magical hull % indicator, what more could you ask for?

For DC attacks, it only happens when the DC explodes within its min radius of you. That's like 4m. If you have several DCs hitting you within 4m a lot of the time, you need to learn how to fight the boat better.

If you take such damage on the surface, lol, stop using a submarine as a surface combatant.

If you sustain major hull damage, go home.

I think so too
It is unrealistic

But he ask for help and I gave him an idea.....

@gimpy117
D u have problems with fighting against armed mechants?
Or in DC atacks?

[andycaccia]

@gimpy117

Never had such "crazy" damage...
however yes, hull damage can be repaired only in drydock (and often it took several weeks or even months of hard work, and that's why if you have a heavily damaged hull they give you a new sub).

But are you sure about your hull conditions?
I mean, if its integrity is down to 20% no surprise of your flooding (and death), but if it's at 100% and the submarine starts flooding all around and sinks...well THAT'S strange.

Can you be more precise??

[tater]

Anyone who thinks all damage is repairable at sea is flat out wrong. Anyone who thinks that it is unrealistic for the hull to be compromised in ways that are undetectable, but none the less deadly is also wrong.

Hairline fractures (typically in welds) can absolutely be fatal to a sub, and would not be seen except via x-rays of the weld. There are numerous other examples.

Hull damage only hurts the sub by making the crush depth more shallow. There is no mystery at all to why you are sinking with a weakened hull. As I said, the only way underwater to take any hull damage (what you call "static" damage) at all is via a DC exploding inside 4m. That's the tyoe of range that should have a decent chance of being fatal to the sub with 1 hit. In SH4 you can take a few of these.

Turning this effect off is pure fantasy since you will then repair ALL damage sustained. This is plainly rediculous.

[gimpy117]

actually im talking about the kind of flooding that does not show on the damage chart but CAN sink your boat!!!

[tater]

There is no flooding that doesn't show up. It shows up, just almost instantly.

The problem you are having is that the sub is hitting the crush depth. Hull damage makes the crush depth more shallow. 50% hull might mean the hull with crush at 50% of the depth it would without damage. At some level of hull damage, the boat sinks on the surface.

[Digital_Trucker]

Gimpy, it sounds like you need Damage Control (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121353&highlight=Damage+control) It's a nice little app that gives you an idea of how far you can dive without getting crushed based on your damages.

[gimpy117]

oh no this happened on the surface...

[Digital_Trucker]

Back to basics, which version of the game are you running? and which MODS are you running?

[gimpy117]

1.4 with natural sinking mod (30% faster)
i got hit with a bomb, engines gone, no flooding showing than i just snak....

[sideways]

twice in the last 2 weeks i've experienced totally random death on the surface. dunno if this is what the OP is talking about, but I was basically just cruising on the surface, on my way to patrol area, nowhere near any land, shallow water, other ships, planes etc, and the crew start screaming that everything is breaking/damaged. if i don't sink right away I usually end up succombing to a fuel leak. :damn:

Both times I hadn't even been in a fight with anything so i can't have been damaged.

edit: this is with U-boot expansion, TMO sp1, and spaxspore's german voice mod.

[wetwarev7]

Are you dieing during high time compression?

Also, if you got hit with a bomb, couldn't that sink you?

[M. Sarsfield]

About a weak ago I was at 120 meters in my IXD2 and out of nowhere I got damage. They repaired it within an hour, but I never heard an explosion of any kind and we never hit the sea floor. I think I was on 128 or 256 TC.

I'm using RSRDC with Patch 2, the German voice and music mods, and a bunch of eye candy mods, like Environemnt 4.0.

[AlmightyTallest]

I thought I had this type of static damage once, but it actually turned out as I was sneaking into Truk I suddenly sustained damage. I later found out I had hit an anti-submarine net!! I have also seen submerged minefields near the northern part of Taiwan, so mines could be another factor for the sudden damage without any aircraft present.

[DrBeast]

I thought I had this type of static damage once, but it actually turned out as I was sneaking into Truk I suddenly sustained damage. I later found out I had hit an anti-submarine net!! I have also seen submerged minefields near the northern part of Taiwan, so mines could be another factor for the sudden damage without any aircraft present.

I'm surprised you didn't notice running into anti-submarine nets immediately. In stock game, they're UNBELIEVABLY loud!

[AlmightyTallest]

Well, I was at periscope depth and was running time compression, I suddenly heard a very loud, horrible, screetching metal sound, like a bunch of cats gargling razor blades. I did jump in my seat at the noise and noticed I was scraping the top of the net with the underside of my sub.

God I love this game! I see something new every patrol :D

[DrBeast]

Well, I was at periscope depth and was running time compression, I suddenly heard a very loud, horrible, screetching metal sound, like a bunch of cats gargling razor blades. I did jump in my seat at the noise and noticed I was scraping the top of the net with the underside of my sub.

God I love this game! I see something new every patrol :D

Sounds more like a hoover running amok and trying to suck up a metal furnace :rotfl:
The problem with these sounds is that they might play even when you're in the vicinity of anti-sub nets, not only when you collide with one. [Shameless Self-pimping]So I lowered their noise substantlially, and they're part of ROW Sound Mod now[/Shameless Self-pimping] I do want to live past 33, thank you very much! :lol:

[AlmightyTallest]

lol, well I'm thankful for the ROW sound mod, I was using v9 and previously v8 for the past few months but I have to hold off with it for now because of a conflict with the latest TMO 1.5.

[tater]

The sub nets are my addition, they reprersent the reefs we lack (but REQUIRE).

As for damage on the surface, if you are taking gun damage, then fixing this is simply asking for EZ mode, perhaps invulnerability would be better? The damage due to guns is not nearly as catastrophic as it should be. A holed sub simply could not dive the vast majority of the time.

Any "mystery" sinking without massive previous hull damage is not a problem with "static damage." You are either being bombed, or hitting mines/subnets or something.

[Rockin Robbins]

the OP isn't giving enough information for anybody to be of help. It's a waste of time to try to help when someone is being purposely vague. There are no bugs where a sub takes damage and sinks without cause. Identifying the cause takes basic information. This has been asked for but we just get a reworded post #1. I advise waiting until we get some information that will enable us to actually help him. If that happens, the cause will become obvious.

[difool2]

Best simile ever, AlmightyTallest...

[gimpy117]

ok i'll try to explain what exactally happened
1. spotted a plane
2.foolishly stayed at surface because i had >25% charge
3.got hit by a bomb
4.checked hull and damage saw 50% hull damage engines gone no flooding...
5.hit periscope depth and went as fast as possible to peri depth
6.got to depth stayed for a little while and suddenly started sinking!
7.hit blow tanks
8. went to about 800feet and went pop*(thanks realistic crush depth)

i'd say all in all this was some strangeness
this also isn't the first time this has happened, i was sitting low in the water for 4 days with the uss Gar and i couldn't punp out the "invisible water"
finally i wasn't able to fully surface but could run deisels and eventually my crew suffocated!

[M. Sarsfield]

50% hull damage would affect crush depth, but it would still get you home. The fact that you dove right after getting 50% hull damage is what killed you. The crew didn't have time to patch the massive holes in the hull and the rest is history. If you had dove a few hours later with the bulk heads patched up, then it would have been a different story. Most of the bomb damage was probably top-side and upper hull.

[gimpy117]

im still mad it didn't tell me i was flooding....

[tater]

You were not flooding.

The hull was weakened by the bomb blast, and when you went underwater, it failed completely.

Many people's problems are probably because the sub should have been sunk outright by X, and instead they get to live then wonder why they later sink.

Getting hit with a bomb means you should be dead, IMO.

[DrBeast]

...I was using v9 and previously v8 for the past few months but I have to hold off with it for now because of a conflict with the latest TMO 1.5.
Hm...I did make a quick fix when RSRDC shipped with its on sh.sdl file to make it compatible with ROW Sounds. Maybe another of those quick fixes are in order...? ;)

*DrBeast scurries off to download all the new TM-stuff

The sub nets are my addition, they represent the reefs we lack (but REQUIRE).


Heh...you're right about that! I've been playing with either Improved Campaign Layers or RSRDC for so long, I forgot they were not part of core game!

[gimpy117]

i just want it to tell me the hull is gone so at least i can see the flooding....

[swdw]

In US Submarine Operations in WWII there is a short section on the loss of the R-12 which was being used as a training boat. The boat was rigged for diving and riding the vents.

With no warning and no damage, the collision alarm sounded and below decks reported flooding in the forward battery. The OOD ordered the main ballast tanks blown.

15 seconds later the boat was gone and the only survivors were the OOD and deck watch.

And you think sudden failure of a damaged hull is unrealistic? Let me give a real world explanation.

Metallurgy wasn't s advanced at that time as it is now and there was still a lot to learn about welding.

The idea of fracture mechanics of a weld joint or even metal plates wasn't understood at that point.

Read the following for a good understanding of this topic.
http://shippai.jst.go.jp/en/Detail?fn=0&id=CB1011020&

Keeping the info in the above link in mind, all you need to have is a stress fracture in a weld joint due to a DC attack. As fracture mechanics has shown over the years, the crack doesn't even have to be visible to the naked eye for a catastrophic failure to occur. When the catastrophic failure occurs, there is no time to react as the crack propagates at close to the speed of sound through the material.

So, keeping the above info in mind, I tend to think the devs came up with a pretty decent way of simulating the possibility of this.

[gimpy117]

You were not flooding.

The hull was weakened by the bomb blast, and when you went underwater, it failed completely.

Many people's problems are probably because the sub should have been sunk outright by X, and instead they get to live then wonder why they later sink.

Getting hit with a bomb means you should be dead, IMO.

im just miffed bacause nobody was listed as killed and nopthing aft (the direction i was sinking) was destroyed or killed...

[AlmightyTallest]

I also tend to forget about the stock version of the game, after my first two days playing I started using the mods around here and forgot just how much the community has added to this sim.

Tater, thanks for the improved campaign, and the sub nets, if it wasn't for you modders, I would have put this game back on the shelf months ago.

difool2, lol your welcome, I thought it was a pretty funny simile :D

DrBeast, thanks for that new sound patch! Much appreciated

Okay, think I got everyone covered!

I also at one time had some hull damage, and decided to risk diving to 120ft. I was able to maintain it for awile, then suddenly the crap hit the fan and I had catastrophic hull failure. I thought it was pretty cool damage modeling and decided that the hull simply couldn't take the continued pressure.

Also, I recommend giving ASW 8.0 a try, one time I foolishly thought I could handle a lone Val while running on the surface, and she dove at me and hit me with God knows what, because after the explosion on my aft deck, my hull had 87% damage and I was barely able to survive. It was essentially a mission kill of my ship because I couldn't risk diving anymore and had to return to base while avoiding the now alerted Japanese ASW units.

[swdw]

im just miffed bacause nobody was listed as killed and nopthing aft (the direction i was sinking) was destroyed or killed...
Sonetimes I wonder- why do I ask people to read stuff?:roll:

Point is Gimpy -with a catastrophic failure due to hull damge that you CANNOT SEE UNITL IT FAILS, you can have the hull fail with no one being wounded, and it can literally happen in less than a second. One second you're ok, the next, you're gone.

So if this can happen in real life, why is it wrong for it to happen in the game?

[andycaccia]

Never "met" enemy (or firendly) mines before. But i guess that submarine nets and mines (especially mines) should be extremely noisy upon impact (collision?). The strange thing is that you didn't heard anything.

But there is one thing in can not understand: didn't the stock game show hull integrity percentage after 1.3 or 1.4??
If the pressure hull is compromised you should be able to see it!

[gimpy117]

im just miffed bacause nobody was listed as killed and nopthing aft (the direction i was sinking) was destroyed or killed...
Sonetimes I wonder- why do I ask people to read stuff?:roll:

Point is Gimpy -with a catastrophic failure due to hull damge that you CANNOT SEE UNITL IT FAILS, you can have the hull fail with no one being wounded, and it can literally happen in less than a second. One second you're ok, the next, you're gone.

So if this can happen in real life, why is it wrong for it to happen in the game?

i know what your saying, but my hull didn't fail till i crushed and got the death screen.
it seems as if i had an invisible weight dragging my sub down. I know there was a high chance of flooding and im sure i had some, but it never showed up on my damage screen and i think thats a bit odd

i can think of 3 seperate occasions where this happened.
the first i have said the second was a ramming underwater that sent me to 200' with >10% hull damage, yet i could not surface even with all my ballast gone yet, still no flooding reported.

[andycaccia]

im just miffed bacause nobody was listed as killed and nopthing aft (the direction i was sinking) was destroyed or killed...
Sonetimes I wonder- why do I ask people to read stuff?:roll:

Point is Gimpy -with a catastrophic failure due to hull damge that you CANNOT SEE UNITL IT FAILS, you can have the hull fail with no one being wounded, and it can literally happen in less than a second. One second you're ok, the next, you're gone.

So if this can happen in real life, why is it wrong for it to happen in the game?

i know what your saying, but my hull didn't fail till i crushed and got the death screen.
it seems as if i had an invisible weight dragging my sub down. I know there was a high chance of flooding and im sure i had some, but it never showed up on my damage screen and i think thats a bit odd

i can think of 3 seperate occasions where this happened.
the first i have said the second was a ramming underwater that sent me to 200' with >10% hull damage, yet i could not surface even with all my ballast gone yet, still no flooding reported.

Strange, but you mean your hull was damaged by 10% (in other words you had 90%integrity) or you had your hull integrity down at 10% (or 90% broken)??

[gimpy117]

im just miffed bacause nobody was listed as killed and nopthing aft (the direction i was sinking) was destroyed or killed...
Sonetimes I wonder- why do I ask people to read stuff?:roll:

Point is Gimpy -with a catastrophic failure due to hull damge that you CANNOT SEE UNITL IT FAILS, you can have the hull fail with no one being wounded, and it can literally happen in less than a second. One second you're ok, the next, you're gone.

So if this can happen in real life, why is it wrong for it to happen in the game?
i know what your saying, but my hull didn't fail till i crushed and got the death screen.
it seems as if i had an invisible weight dragging my sub down. I know there was a high chance of flooding and im sure i had some, but it never showed up on my damage screen and i think thats a bit odd

i can think of 3 seperate occasions where this happened.
the first i have said the second was a ramming underwater that sent me to 200' with >10% hull damage, yet i could not surface even with all my ballast gone yet, still no flooding reported.
Strange, but you mean your hull was damaged by 10% (in other words you had 90%integrity) or you had your hull integrity down at 10% (or 90% broken)??

well yes i had like 90% integrety left
well the time i got hit by the destroyer i just sunk like it always does