Formula 1 2008

[Skybird]

I don't think he slowed so much down but didn't have much grip to accelerate with slicks in the wet.

so you didn't watch the race. How could he drive as fast as l.h and before last turn got overtaken? Pathetic trickery.
Not at all. When it started to rain, he lost 3 or 5 seconds per round, in the last 2 or 3 rounds, they gave that info on German TV. He did not slow down because he wanted, but because he had no other choice if he wanted to stay on the increasingly wet track - he was on slicks until the end.

[Kapt Z]

Congrats to both Massa and Hamilton!

Massa drove the best race he could have with conditions that normally give him trouble.

Hamilton almost got caught with his pants down! When Vettel passed him I was on my feet! In shock! I thought he had thrown away the championship. When Glock went wide and Hamilton passed him my jaw dropped. What a lucky bastard!

Wow.:D

[kranz]

I just hope there isn't any investgation for something minor.

The stewards should investigate glock's telemetry second after second to check whether he was breaking to help L.H Where big money start, fair play ends...


...and so beginneth the conspiracy theories :nope:

it works like that:when l.h got 20 sec. penalty everyone could shout: oh, nasty sterwards don't like him, he was innocent. But it is the other way round you(it is generally about GBR people so don't feel flattered Jimbuna)start with ":nope: ".

Kranz is just upset that Kubica got knocked out of the running, which credit to him he was probably the most consistent of all the top 5 drivers this year.

actually I don't like kubica for the way he acts in TV and gives intervievs:example:
you had bad times yesterday on the track, was it the car? No. How about the weather conditions? No. Your mood? No. So why u were so slow? Thanks for questions, bb.
I understand he can't say that he sucked because of "this tiny little screw in the gearbox" but come on, he is so self-confident that even his fans see this.
Just for Kranz.

This is a screenshot of the official F1 live timing screens showing the last lap.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1786/1225653923663if4bh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1225653923663if4bh9.jpg/1/w714.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img119/1225653923663if4bh9.jpg/1/)

If you take a look at Glock's time and Trulli's time they were almost the same. They were the only ones out on dry tires at the time.

Glock was having trouble at the end of the penultimate lap lost a cunch in the middle sector and then had to drive uphill on dry tires on the wettest part of the track.

Taking a look at other forums I can't understand how people cannot accept Hamilton won fair and square.

for me it doesn't proove anything. Look at the differences between wet tires-0,1 sec to 1 sec and between Trulli and Glock=3 seconds??WTF? What-he was uber good and then he slowed down? We would have to compare more laps.


I don't think he slowed so much down but didn't have much grip to accelerate with slicks in the wet.

so you didn't watch the race. How could he drive as fast as l.h and before last turn got overtaken? Pathetic trickery.
Not at all. When it started to rain, he lost 3 or 5 seconds per round, in the last 2 or 3 rounds, they gave that info on German TV. He did not slow down because he wanted, but because he had no other choice if he wanted to stay on the increasingly wet track - he was on slicks until the end.
how about Trulli?He didn't have to slow down-he was also on slicks?
We all know that Glock is your "kamaraden" and he bears grudge for gbr no more.
Massa fans won't change what happened so let's chill out.

btw: massa would have won the title if that idiot picket jr knew the basis of driving a car...(vide fuel hose story)

[XabbaRus]

OK look at the sector times not the overall time.

Also if LH hadn't got past Glock I would not have been screaming unfair.

The only one of dubious nature this year was Spa which pretty much most people think stank......

Get over it Kranz, it was a fair race, luck played its part LH is champion

[Jimbuna]

You've always got next season to look forward to kranz.

I reckon LH will only benefit from the experience and get quicker.

Should be an interesting period in the world of F1.

[stabiz]

This must have been the best season finish ever! Massa was actually the champion when he crossed the finish line, just to lose it 15 seconds later! Incredible!

[Dowly]

Next year then, Massa. :cry:

[stabiz]

http://tarabass.nl/ferrari_owned.gif

:p

[kranz]

http://tarabass.nl/ferrari_owned.gif

:p

you just couldn't stop yourself...:rotfl:

[Schroeder]

You've always got next season to look forward to kranz.

I reckon LH will only benefit from the experience and get quicker.

Should be an interesting period in the world of F1.
I'm not so sure about that. What people don't seem to realize is that LH got owned by Vettel. This guy drives a Torro Rosso and I really don't think LH let him pass voluntarily and almost loosing the championship.
I wish Vettel gets a Ferrari or McLaren soon.:yep:

[Jimbuna]

You've always got next season to look forward to kranz.

I reckon LH will only benefit from the experience and get quicker.

Should be an interesting period in the world of F1.
I'm not so sure about that. What people don't seem to realize is that LH got owned by Vettel. This guy drives a Torro Rosso and I really don't think LH let him pass voluntarily and almost loosing the championship.
I wish Vettel gets a Ferrari or McLaren soon.:yep:

The equipment a driver has is vitally important....but so are the skills needed to operate said equipment effectively.

At 23, LH is now set to become the first UK sporting billionaire http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

[VipertheSniper]

You've always got next season to look forward to kranz.

I reckon LH will only benefit from the experience and get quicker.

Should be an interesting period in the world of F1.
I'm not so sure about that. What people don't seem to realize is that LH got owned by Vettel. This guy drives a Torro Rosso and I really don't think LH let him pass voluntarily and almost loosing the championship.
I wish Vettel gets a Ferrari or McLaren soon.:yep:

I just hope the Red Bull car he drives next year will be better than this years Red Bull. Although it could well be that the performance of the Red Bulls is more of a driver issue than anything else.

I'm really eager to see next years championship, Alonso is getting the Renault back up to pace, Massa and Raikkonen are both strong contenders for the title, Lewis will be too and also Kubica and Vettel might have chances as well, this could get even more interesting at the end of the season than this year.

[Hitman]

One of the things I like about LH becoming finally champion is that I have a gut feeling that this will change his attitude....let me explain that: Alonso became arrogant when he won his first championship, but before that he was rather shy and modest. When he became champion he started thinking that he was really great and could say many things he said, teasing Schumacher and Ferrari (For both of whom he should have had more respect). But Lewis is probably the opposite case: He was arrigant and petulant probably because he is very hot and sanguine inside and he was very good, but had yet to proove it. From what I know about LH personal life, he seems to have been continuously obsessed with the need to proof himself and proove to others what he was capable of. But now that he has the "champion" label (And also the youngest in history) and that he can speak tet-a-tet to all other champions, I think he will relax and abandon a lot of his arrogance. Simply because he doesn't need to act as challenger any more.

I could of course be wrong, and becoming champion could be worser for his character, but I really really think that should not be the case. And it will certainly be a much wellcomed change, as LH has done few friends and a lot of enemies in the grid, and the sport doesn't need that at all. Rivalry is good, animosity not.

Here goes my vote of confidence to that change....let's wait and see :up:

[kranz]

But Lewis is probably the opposite case: He was arrigant and petulant probably because he is very hot and sanguine inside and he was very good, but had yet to proove it. From what I know about LH personal life, he seems to have been continuously obsessed with the need to proof himself and proove to others what he was capable of. But now that he has the "champion" label (And also the youngest in history) and that he can speak tet-a-tet to all other champions, I think he will relax and abandon a lot of his arrogance. Simply because he doesn't need to act as challenger any more.



+1. Well said. According to what I've read Glock was 20 seconds slower on his last lap than the previous although it was raining for 10 last laps. That is why XabbaRus has shown only the last lap. Tomorrow I will start my orivate investigation proving what was written somewhere here: http://www.iht.com/pages/sports/index.php
(that glock bet a big amount on l.h title)After I solve this riddle I will come here and ashame most of you(or sth like that)

[Fincuan]

Maybe they've bought Trulli too, since his last lap was a whopping 69 milliseconds faster than Glock's :yep:

[stabiz]

Yeah, its pathetic. Toyota, one of - if not THE - richest team in F1, being bought to help Mercedes.:doh: You have to be very red to actually believe that.

I hoped Massa would win it, simply because I like him slightly more than Hamilton, but in the end Lewis Carl Hamilton scored more points and deserves the championship. Well done in his second year. Now we will see if he will be a Villeneuve or a Senna/Schumi.

Oh, and I think Alonso would have won it in a good car. He actually outscored everyone the last 9 races. True, the Renault has been developed but its still no Mclaren or Ferrari.

[XabbaRus]

But Lewis is probably the opposite case: He was arrigant and petulant probably because he is very hot and sanguine inside and he was very good, but had yet to proove it. From what I know about LH personal life, he seems to have been continuously obsessed with the need to proof himself and proove to others what he was capable of. But now that he has the "champion" label (And also the youngest in history) and that he can speak tet-a-tet to all other champions, I think he will relax and abandon a lot of his arrogance. Simply because he doesn't need to act as challenger any more.


+1. Well said. According to what I've read Glock was 20 seconds slower on his last lap than the previous although it was raining for 10 last laps. That is why XabbaRus has shown only the last lap. Tomorrow I will start my orivate investigation proving what was written somewhere here: http://www.iht.com/pages/sports/index.php
(that glock bet a big amount on l.h title)After I solve this riddle I will come here and ashame most of you(or sth like that)

You really are pathetic.

It wasn't raining for the last ten laps, it was spotting, it started getting heavier 6 laps to the end. LH came in as did Massa, probably they could have stayed out longer but chose not to. It was in the last two laps the rain came a lot heavier.

I only gave the timing for the last lap as that is what I have, not because I'm trying to hide anything.

As for your investigation, are you going to publish it? Better get a good lawyer.

[Jimbuna]

This is really warming up and fast approaching the 'pee or get off the pot' stage.

looking forward to the detailed none too subjective evidence.....should it ever appear.

LH 2008 Champion........fair and square.

[Hitman]

About the Glock incident, my two cents: Glock was already angry with Lewis for pushing him out of the track some races ago. He had also made comments about what he would do, come the same situation to happen inversely: He would push LH out.

Glock would have been one of the happiest men in the world if he had been able to block effectively Hamilton's race for the title. If he didn't, it's because his car was so much slower than Lewis one, that he would have been handed -and very much deservedly- a huge penalty for unfair sportsmanship and interfering unjustificatedly in the championship struggle.

[Dowly]

About the Glock incident, my two cents: Glock was already angry with Lewis for pushing him out of the track some races ago. He had also made comments about what he would do, come the same situation to happen inversely: He would push LH out.

Glock would have been one of the happiest men in the world if he had been able to block effectively Hamilton's race for the title. If he didn't, it's because his car was so much slower than Lewis one, that he would have been handed -and very much deservedly- a huge penalty for unfair sportsmanship and interfering unjustificatedly in the championship struggle.

I recall Glock saying he wasnt aware of the situation, not knowing how much he was affecting the outcome of the driver's championship.

[kranz]

You really are pathetic.



if you say so...

Back to F1: the chart you've presented actually prooves what could be seen during the race and works in favour of my arguments that Glock was drastically slow. Without 3rd sector times of at least 6-10 laps we can say nothing.
Actually I've never said that Toyota got any money from mercedes.
The driver that was so praised here so much that some of you nearly peed their pants got 5 wins: Massa(who was meant to be not so good as L.H, the master of wet track) got 6 wins(and had a chance to get AT LEAST two more but failed due to various factors i.e Nelson jr). L.H just won by 1 tiny little point and great favour that will never be revealed.

[badhat17]

Glock:
Lap 66 1:17.992
Lap 67 1:18.897
Lap 68 1:18.816
Lap 69 1:18.688
Lap 70 1:28.041
Lap 71 1:44.731

Trulli:
Lap 66 1:19.113
Lap 67 1:20.528
Lap 68 1:20.188
Lap 69 1:22.428
Lap 70 1:33.539
Lap 71 1:44.800

By electing to stay out on dry tyres Timo was able to move from 7th up to 6th so the gamble worked out for him. As can be seen from his lap times, when compared with his team mate who also stayed out on dry tyres, he was trying all the way. Race drivers have a habit of doing that.
The times drop away significantly simply due to the track condition as it became wet which would have then dropped the tyre out of it's operating window with regard to temperature.
I would not waste any time looking for a conspiracy which is not there.

[XabbaRus]

There you go....but I feel we are debating with someone so convinced we should give up now.

[Jimbuna]

There you go....but I feel we are debating with someone so convinced we should give up now.

Agreed.....especially when reading the last posts from Hitman and badhat17.

[Konovalov]

Bit late of me here on this topic. :oops: Still recovering from McLaren and Lewis almost managing to loose the champ again. But what an exciting finnish to the season. :rock:

Congrats to Lewis. :up: He absolutely deserves the Champ this year. :yep: I also felt that he was both humble and fair in his victory which has gone some way to me changing my opinion of his personal character. I never questioned his driving talents which are without question. If he has the car under him he could win half a dozen Champs during his career.

My hat off to Massa too for dealing with defeat so well.

With regards to the Glock theories all that talk is just a load of utter crud and stinks of sore loser syndrome. :down:

Bring on season 2009 boys. :smug:

[Bort]

Bring on season 2009 boys. :smug:
Oh dear! Not if it looks like this... (http://sundayafternoonclub.blogs.topgear.com/2008/11/17/2009-f1-starts-here/):o
Someone at the FIA needs glasses...

[Konovalov]

Bring on season 2009 boys. :smug:
Oh dear! Not if it looks like this... (http://sundayafternoonclub.blogs.topgear.com/2008/11/17/2009-f1-starts-here/):o
Someone at the FIA needs glasses...
It's the retro look. I actually think they look better than the cars of the last few years. :yep:

There has been far to much aero junk on the cars. All these bits and bobs that stick out at every angle just look horrible. Ad might I add that the drivers look silly as they tippy toe into the cockpit so as not to brake off those aero wings that stick out all over the place. Any finally slick tyres back on F1 cars instead of those grooved retreads from my road car. ;) ;)

The changes were needed and at least F1 is heading in the right direction, or at least I hope so. :-?

The other noteworthy event of yesterday was the name Senna back on a pit board. I'm glad that he is only taking on a testing role this year and not rushing into a full season drive with one of the lower ranked teams such as Honda. :yep:

[bert8for3]

I like the look of the 2009 designs we've seen so far. Nice and clean.

On another note, interesting reaction here (Montreal) to the news in the last few days that attempts to save the Montreal race have definitively failed.

The overwhelming view is that Bernie E was simply asking for far too much and it's time to forget about it and move on with ideas being floated about what kind of event could replace the GP. One of the most interesting is to hold an international alternative-fuel race, possibly a 24-hour event.

Own view, as said before, is that Bernie just wanted to eliminate the Montreal race in favour of a venue that will pay whatever price he names, and that there are plenty of those. A local commentator, who said he has had business dealings with BE in the past, said on the radio yesterday that he was not at all surprised and that he knows BE to be a particularly mean and nasty sort, at least in business dealings. Whether true or not, or to what degree, who knows, but we are well rid of the dancing around.

[Bort]

I don't mind the fact that the new cars are clean or that slicks are back, its the ridiculously disproportionate front and rear wings that are driving me nuts. The front wing is enormous and looks like a locker door, and the rear wing is ludicrously small. Make both wings the same size and I'll be a happy man.:up:

[Konovalov]

The overly sized front wing reminds me of a hoover (vacuum cleaner). Perhaps it is and the new F1 cars will suck up all the marbles and rubbish off the track hence creating more than one clean line on the track. This would mean even more passing and better racing. What a brilliant idea. :lol:

[Konovalov]

To me it looks more like a snow plow, maybe they're scheduling a race in Greenland :lol:
Kovi or Kimi would win every time being Finns. ;)

[XabbaRus]

Any more decent photos of 2009 spec aero cars going about.

I want to see the MM and Ferrari cars.

[Konovalov]

Nope, none that I know of being an F1 nut. Anyway, neither McLaren or Ferrari tested the new aero rear and front wings at Barcelona, Spain. The first three days of testing there for the teams was more about gettin to grips (pardon the pun) with the new slick tyres. Thank god for the return of them to F1. :rock:

Ferrari did run KERRS however. They simulated the new aero stuff by running very little rear wing on their current 2008 cars as did other teams such as Red Bull and Toro Rosso. Williams and BMW both ran with the new front and rear wings while Honda also ran with snow plow front wing.

[bookworm_020]

THere maybe one less team on the grid next year.

http://news.smh.com.au/world/honda-poised-for-formula-one-pullout-reports-20081205-6rz7.html

[Falkirion]

Hope not. Honda are a good team for the paddock.

[stabiz]

Its confirmed. :cry:

[Jimbuna]

That's a real shame :nope:

[bert8for3]

It's too bad, they were going to come back competitively at some point. And just plain too bad for the sport.

One wonders if there will be more pulling out. Would just take one or max two more and it's no longer really viable as a grid.

[XabbaRus]

I read they'll keep going till March so maybe prodrive might be interested.

[Onkel Neal]

There have not been any posts since Dec 5, so I am going to unsticky this topic. If the thread heats up again later, we can discuss. Thanks.

Neal

[Weigh-Man]

Ferrari have stated today that they would be willing to provide engines to Honda if they find a buyer for the 2009 season.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44876

[XabbaRus]

That would be good news.

I always like Honda and apparently the new car is good from reports I have read. If they can get a buyer and new engines it could be interesting.

[XabbaRus]

OK what do you all think of the 2009 Ferrari?

It looks good from the side and top but weird at 3/4 angle.

[stabiz]

I think it looks like a kit car. :rotfl:

http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/aolqyjyv2.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/newsnew/116943.jpg

Btw, we are now officially discussing the 2009 season, so maybe we should have a
new thread.

[bert8for3]

I like it myself, except for the full-width front wing (which I guess they'll all have). It looks longer overall, but not sure if it really is.

[Konovalov]

Expect half the grid to loose the front wing going into turn one at Melbourne. :lol:

Some angles the cars look nice and others I'm not so sure. I am glad however that the bodies are much cleaner without all those silly little aero wings and bits and bobs sticking out everywhere. :up: