Sound contacts while surfaced

[fvd]

Hi everyone,

I know this has been an issue from day one when SH4 came out.
The patches that have been released did'nt solve this.
But some mod's did, like Trigger_Maru.

I've played a while with TM but then i got curious for RFB so i've changed to that now. (along with RSRD)
One of the things i noticed is that sound contacts while surfaced are back.
I thought RFB was a mod which is historically very corect, isn't it?
So now i am wondering why this mod doesn't do anything about these sound contacts?
Does this have a reason?

Thanks already!
fvd

[AVGWarhawk]

Historically the sonar could detect sound while surfaced. In the game, it is just waaaayyyyyy to good. Normally for the super sonic head to hear sound, the boat had to be at very slow turns or completely stopped. RFB has addressed this but is not out for release as yet but is coming:up: . The modders are working in all sorts of goodies and testing is taking place in the back field.

Anyway, I will not tell you what they have done to rectify the all hearing, hearing aid but the after math of what was done forces you to slow down so it you can hear while surfaced. It is not the perfect solution but IMHO feel it is the best solution with what the modders had to work with concerning the sonar while surfaced.

LukeFF is on the case concerning the sonar!

Stay tuned:yep:

[fvd]

Historically the sonar could detect sound while surfaced. In the game, it is just waaaayyyyyy to good. Normally for the super sonic head to hear sound, the boat had to be at very slow turns or completely stopped. RFB has addressed this but is not out for release as yet but is coming:up: . The modders are working in all sorts of goodies and testing is taking place in the back field.

Anyway, I will not tell you what they have done to rectify the all hearing, hearing aid but the after math of what was done forces you to slow down so it you can hear while surfaced. It is not the perfect solution but IMHO feel it is the best solution with what the modders had to work with concerning the sonar while surfaced.

LukeFF is on the case concerning the sonar!

Stay tuned:yep:

Thanks AVG!
By the way, what do you use/prefer, TM or RFB?
Best regards,
fvd

[Ducimus]

Theres a "team working on RFB now instead of just one person?

Sweet!

I hope they ratchet up the bar, so people will go use RFB instead of TM, so im no longer inundated with questions every time i visit the forum. Obscurity, how i long for thee!

edit:
psst, AVG uses RFB i think. Kind of a hint!
Subliminal message. "real fleet boat, you know you want it!"

[AVGWarhawk]

Historically the sonar could detect sound while surfaced. In the game, it is just waaaayyyyyy to good. Normally for the super sonic head to hear sound, the boat had to be at very slow turns or completely stopped. RFB has addressed this but is not out for release as yet but is coming:up: . The modders are working in all sorts of goodies and testing is taking place in the back field.

Anyway, I will not tell you what they have done to rectify the all hearing, hearing aid but the after math of what was done forces you to slow down so it you can hear while surfaced. It is not the perfect solution but IMHO feel it is the best solution with what the modders had to work with concerning the sonar while surfaced.

LukeFF is on the case concerning the sonar!

Stay tuned:yep:
Thanks AVG!
By the way, what do you use/prefer, TM or RFB?
Best regards,
fvd

I use RFB. Duci was out of the gate first and getting rave review with TM and still is. Beery started RFB and moved on to something else. SWDW approached Beery and asked to pick up were he left off. He got the go ahead. In the spirit of supporting a new member and continuation of modding SH4, I loaded up RFB and have been using it since then. More modders the merrier! All in all, both are great and strive for two different types of play. Makes players happy to have a choice also.

[AVGWarhawk]

Theres a "team working on RFB now instead of just one person?

Sweet!

I hope they ratchet up the bar, so people will go use RFB instead of TM, so im no longer inundated with questions every time i visit the forum. Obscurity, how i long for thee!

edit:
psst, AVG uses RFB i think. Kind of a hint!
Subliminal message. "real fleet boat, you know you want it!"

Yes, there is a team going at it. Contains a lot of new things and some great ideas they are working on now. Definitely working on making it as historical as possible and what the game will allow. I say no more as this is their show and I just test or locate information on things for them

:up:

[Ducimus]

Glad i retired from TM then. "teams" are inheirantly compedative, and i just dont want to go down that busy street again. Ill just give them lip service, and get the hell out of the way instead. :rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

This is very different here Duci. Lurkers RSRD is made to order. The Dave's ROW is made to order. Very much part of the larger mod package. RFB is concentrating on historical accuracy of the subs, weapons and abilities. What bases and when. What sub was available and what type of equipment for the given year. Squish it all together and super mod made to order.

[Ducimus]

No no dont get me wrong, im acutally very happy about a formal team now. The thing is, i never WANTED, nor MEANT TO create a "supermod". My aim was much lower on the totem pole, to get the game playable.

I think i stuck with it so long, partially out of a sense of finishing what i started, partially from the lack of any team banding together to stand up and kick it up a few notchs.

The ball just kind of bounced how it did, and here i sit with TMaru 1.7.5, and the honest truth is, its become way too much for one person to handle. There are so many little details, so many areas to futher polish, i can't possibly keep track of everything. A team is a neccessity in this regard.

At its core, Tmaru is still Sh4 flavored to taste, and i think its served its purpose. Way i see it, my time is over, and theirs is just starting! :up: My only pain, is that i know eventaully, a team effort will produce a much better, more detailed modpack then i could provide, and my efforts will eventually fall to the side and be a memory a few years hence, and im fine with that.

Truthfully ive been waiting for this bit of news for a long time now. Two thumbs up to the RFB team! :up: :up:

[fvd]

No no dont get me wrong, im acutally very happy about a formal team now. The thing is, i never WANTED, nor MEANT TO create a "supermod". My aim was much lower on the totem pole, to get the game playable.

I think i stuck with it so long, partially out of a sense of finishing what i started, partially from the lack of any team banding together to stand up and kick it up a few notchs.

The ball just kind of bounced how it did, and here i sit with TMaru 1.7.5, and the honest truth is, its become way too much for one person to handle. There are so many little details, so many areas to futher polish, i can't possibly keep track of everything. A team is a neccessity in this regard.

At its core, Tmaru is still Sh4 flavored to taste, and i think its served its purpose. Way i see it, my time is over, and theirs is just starting! :up: My only pain, is that i know eventaully, a team effort will produce a much better, more detailed modpack then i could provide, and my efforts will eventually fall to the side and be a memory a few years hence, and im fine with that.

Truthfully ive been waiting for this bit of news for a long time now. Two thumbs up to the RFB team! :up: :up:

Hi Ducimus,

You sound a bit "bitter" about your own mod and i can understand why.
It's probably been a huge work (most of us will never know how many hours of work and sweat you have been trough to give us this mod) and we are very thankfull for it!
I think it is indeed to much work for one person, maybe your mod ran out of hand for you alone...
Anyway, what i want to say is: i hope you have a positive feeling at the end, despite of all the hard work and the many questions and reactions it returns because you have given SH4 a totally new dimension and made it a better game!

Thanks and best regards,
fvd

[Ducimus]

Im not bitter, just burnt out, and looking for any excuse to walk away with a clear concious :lol: I really hate walking away/stepping down if there is not another modpack being built and maintained. (notice how zealously i latched on to this threads news about a Team? lol) Since there IS, im quite happy about that. I can have my clear concious.

To go back to the original topic, yes i reduced the min height of the Sub hydrophone sensor so it woudln't pick up surface contacts. I couldnt find a way to make it not so perfect (i didn't spend much time on it either). The sonar as it was, circumvented any need for radar. Since i couldnt find any immediate way to tone it down (i had alot on my plate), i decided to take the easy solution of removed it from the surface altogether. (hence reinforcing the need for SJ radar)


If a better solution has been found, awesome, my hats off. Id be intrested in knowing how they did it, but im not touching it/intergarting anything in the way of TM. It is what it is.

[swdw]

My wish is that someone would put together a team for TM and let Ducimus take a well deserved rest where he can be one of several contributors once he's recovered from the burnout caused by doing this all alone. No way would I want to be the one and only person working on RFB cuz in a year I'd be ready to quit too.

TM got me hooked on SH4, but having been on subs I tend to gravitate towards the realism end sooner or later, and that's what led me to RFB. This seems to be a common path for most RFB users. TM's better realism from stock makes some of the people want more, so they try RFB.

There really shoudl be a choice of mods. I still feel it would be better for SH4 if it has more than one "supermod" being worked on, where each achieves a different level of play- including a super arcade version for getting 12 year olds hooked. Choice only will make the sim more popular- AVG's said this, Ducimus has said this, and so have others (well, maybe not the part about the arcade version though).

Because not all people want super realism, TM will more than likely be the most used mod if someone is willing to put together a team to work on it too. Future development from a group sharing Ducimus' outlook could only be a good thing.

That said, I now throw down the challenge for someone to get Ducimus' permission to relieve him of being the sole modder on TM and put together a team which keeps him in the loop and can continue with TM, taking it in the direction Ducimus would like to see it head. ;)

[BadKarma1001]

Digged up this "old" thread bacause after a long time with RFB i give TMO a try and i was severly disappointed that i got hydrophone contacts from far away while surfaced.
Seems to be still an issue, even with TMO 1.9, never happened with RFB though.

[Munchausen]

:cool: Except that fleet boats actually could pick up sonar while on the surface.

[Ducimus]

What a fossil.

Yes you can get surface contacts in TMO via hydrophones. But usually, only in poor visiblity. Check the range in game, i think its like 9,000 yards. Most of the time your watch crew see's things by then.

And yes, i reverted because it was indeed possible.

edit:
If you man the hydrophones yourself, you'll hear MUCH farther thne 9000 yards. This is a problem with the game engine. You crewman will only acknowledge things to the specified range, but sounds are still audible from alot farther.

[Bubblehead1980]

Ducimus, I highly doubt TMO will fade into the backround....too much TMO addicts. 1.9 is great, esp with add ons like vickers interior overhauls, RSRD etc.

[BadKarma1001]

:cool: Except that fleet boats actually could pick up sonar while on the surface.

Hmm are there any sources for this!?
I spent an hour googeling but nothing came up.

[Munchausen]

Hmm are there any sources for this!?


:hmmm: You force me to go searching through all my old notes ... but I'll be keelhauled before going back to the public library for the book. Anyway, here's the source:

"Wahoo" by Richard H. O'Kane. Page 35 in the hardbound copy (not sure which edition).


Edit: Btw, another old "fossil' is the "it shouldn't be possible to stay at depth without forward speed" complaint (in SH4 you can maintain depth while stationary). At least one captain was pretty good at doing the "impossible" ... a guy named Mendenhall. In his book "Submarine Diary," he talks about it in two places: page 7 and page 205.

[Jan Kyster]

Hmm are there any sources for this!?
I spent an hour googeling but nothing came up.Have a look in the manual... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

[BadKarma1001]

Have a look in the manual... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

Thx for the replies, funny thing i found this in this manual!

Page 26:

Securing JP gear
As soon as your submarine surfaces, secure the JP gear,
1. Turn the power switch off.
2.Train the hydrophone to 090 degrees if it is installed on the port side, or to 270 degrees if it is on the starboard side.
3. Hang up the headphones carefully. They are a special kind that cannot be replaced while you are on patrol. Other headphones do not work as well on JP gear.

[sergei]

...i was severly disappointed that i got hydrophone contacts from far away while surfaced.

It is relatively easy to edit so that the hydrophone will not work when surfaced.
It is a quick 2 minute edit of one file with S3D.
I'll post details if you are interested.

[BadKarma1001]

It is relatively easy to edit so that the hydrophone will not work when surfaced.
It is a quick 2 minute edit of one file with S3D.
I'll post details if you are interested.

That would be nice thx!
I know i am a little pain ita about this but there are so many aspects i like about TMO so that i would really to give it a try but things like this are a real bummer and immersion killer for me!

[sergei]

OK.
The file you are after is SH4/Data/Library/USSubParts/Sensors_sub_US.sim

Open the sim file into S3D.
You are looking for entries 46, 48, 52 and 66.
Open each entry up. You will see sat the top of the entry the sensor name, in this case hydrophone. Double check this to make sure you are editing the correct type of sensor!
Look for the value for Max Sensor Height.
I think it is currently set at 0 or -1.
Change this to -6.
JSGME the whole thing in case this FUBARs anything!

There you go, job done. Hydrophone is now inoperable on the surface. Kicks in at around radar depth (differs for each boat!)

EDIT: you may want to try a slightly lower number if you spend a lot of time in S Boats, as their periscope depth is a good 10-15ft shallower than the fleetboats.

[BadKarma1001]

OK.
The file you are after is SH4/Data/Library/USSubParts/Sensors_sub_US.sim

Open the sim file into S3D.
You are looking for entries 46, 48, 52 and 66.
Open each entry up. You will see sat the top of the entry the sensor name, in this case hydrophone. Double check this to make sure you are editing the correct type of sensor!
Look for the value for Max Sensor Height.
I think it is currently set at 0 or -1.
Change this to -6.
JSGME the whole thing in case this FUBARs anything!

There you go, job done. Hydrophone is now inoperable on the surface. Kicks in at around radar depth (differs for each boat!)

EDIT: you may want to try a slightly lower number if you spend a lot of time in S Boats, as their periscope depth is a good 10-15ft shallower than the fleetboats.

Thx m8!

[LukeFF]

Hmm are there any sources for this!?
I spent an hour googeling but nothing came up.

Several patrol reports mention using WCA sonar gear while surfaced.

[berobispo]

I know, by now a very old fossil:) but I was wondering whether it would be possible to have one sonar gear (the WCA) to be working on the surface and the JP start to work at shallow depth.

Does the game switch sonar gear completely (JP instead of WCA) or does it add them? I just installed S3D Editor and would like to change some things in TMO 2.2 (SD Radar spoils the fun of hoping to evade a plane flying low - not talking historical correctness here:ping:).