How to Raise Maximum Periscope Extension?

[Stiebler]

I got tired of constantly trying to see over high waves whilst at periscope depth in a heavy storm. The obvious solution would be to allow the periscope to extend higher for each U-boat type (the current restriction is too low for realism), but I can't find the parameter in any of the files. Presumably I have overlooked it somewhere. Does anyone know where to look? And I don't mean changing 'periscope depth' in the NSSubmarinexxx.cfg files! Sometimes it is useful to extend the periscope to see your target, even if it does mean greater risk of being seen oneself.

Obviously, one cannot raise the schnorchel height, but I noticed recently, for the first time, that the constant oscillation of the engine-room crew between diesel and electric engine rooms during a storm (as the waves keep breaking over the schnorchel, shutting off the air flow) causes a massive deterioration in the engine room crew's fatigue. Presumably this problem affects stock and GWX, as well as NYGM. Something to watch out for on long schnorchel patrols. When the weather is rough, schnorchel only at night, and closer to the surface than normal schnorchel depth to avoid this problem.

Thanks for any help.

Stiebler.

[TheDarkWraith]

I got tired of constantly trying to see over high waves whilst at periscope depth in a heavy storm. The obvious solution would be to allow the periscope to extend higher for each U-boat type (the current restriction is too low for realism), but I can't find the parameter in any of the files. Presumably I have overlooked it somewhere. Does anyone know where to look? And I don't mean changing 'periscope depth' in the NSSubmarinexxx.cfg files! Sometimes it is useful to extend the periscope to see your target, even if it does mean greater risk of being seen oneself.

Obviously, one cannot raise the schnorchel height, but I noticed recently, for the first time, that the constant oscillation of the engine-room crew between diesel and electric engine rooms during a storm (as the waves keep breaking over the schnorchel, shutting off the air flow) causes a massive deterioration in the engine room crew's fatigue. Presumably this problem affects stock and GWX, as well as NYGM. Something to watch out for on long schnorchel patrols. When the weather is rough, schnorchel only at night, and closer to the surface than normal schnorchel depth to avoid this problem.

Thanks for any help.

Stiebler.

look in data\Objects for the Turm files. In the Turmxx_x.sim files there are controllers called obj_Extensible. There is one for the snorkel, one for the obs scope, one for the periscope, and maybe some for other items. I believe (off the top of my head) that the attack periscope is type=0 and the obs_scope is type=1. The type= is how you tie the controller to the object. Now the max_height determines it's maximum extension (in meters) and ext_time determines how fast it extends (or lowers) and it's in seconds.

[Anvart]

I got tired of constantly trying to see over high waves whilst at periscope depth in a heavy storm. The obvious solution would be to allow the periscope to extend higher for each U-boat type (the current restriction is too low for realism), but I can't find the parameter in any of the files. Presumably I have overlooked it somewhere. Does anyone know where to look? And I don't mean changing 'periscope depth' in the NSSubmarinexxx.cfg files! Sometimes it is useful to extend the periscope to see your target, even if it does mean greater risk of being seen oneself.

Obviously, one cannot raise the schnorchel height, but I noticed recently, for the first time, that the constant oscillation of the engine-room crew between diesel and electric engine rooms during a storm (as the waves keep breaking over the schnorchel, shutting off the air flow) causes a massive deterioration in the engine room crew's fatigue. Presumably this problem affects stock and GWX, as well as NYGM. Something to watch out for on long schnorchel patrols. When the weather is rough, schnorchel only at night, and closer to the surface than normal schnorchel depth to avoid this problem.

Thanks for any help.

Stiebler.
Objects folder ...
For example: Turm7c_3_hd.sim file ...
Controller: obj_Extensible ... (for any scope) ...
Parameter: max_height ... (5 m default) ...

P.S. ha-ha ...
We with Racerboy have written almost simultaneously ...

[gimpy117]

go to 10 meters, your tower might show in a wave trough, but i don't think ships can see that

[kenijaru]

that would depend on how close he is, how smart the watch crew is, the light... blah blah blah.

[Koondawg]

I have had my boat porpoise during heavy seas until I submerge to at least 40m...kinda annoying when you have a swan roaming and your trying to get a bearing on a tanker...

[3Jane]

But surely that is all part of the fun of this game, the frustration and added difficulty with weather conditions such as that.

[Koondawg]

But surely that is all part of the fun of this game, the frustration and added difficulty with weather conditions such as that.
You have apparently never heard my chef yelling....JK
yes it makes it that much more fun....

[Stiebler]

Many thanks indeed to RacerBoy and Anvart for these prompt replies. It never occurred to me to look in the Turm files, but I'll do that asap. Nice to see you again in this forum, incidentally, old friend Anvart.

The reason for the query was this:
When approaching convoys recently, in 15 m/s winds, but good visibility, and periscope fully up, at time compression = 32, I was quite struck by the flashing of the water on the periscope as I tried to track the convoy visually. It suddenly occurred to me that people subject to epilepsy might well have an attack after this kind of flashing. I'm not a sufferer myself, thank goodness, but even I felt very dazzled by this display very quickly.

It has also occurred to me that another solution to this visual problem would be to reduce wave heights in file scenes.dat. This would have also the advantage that the U-boat would be more readily detected at periscope depth by escorts. And I could even make the usual mindless claim that the mod complies with Britain's irritating law, the Health and Safety Act.

So I shall try both approaches.

Many thanks again, everyone who replied.

Stiebler.

[Koondawg]

curosity setting in....what prog are you using to open the .sim files please?
thanks in advance

[Stiebler]

curosity setting in....what prog are you using to open the .sim files please?
thanks in advance
TimeTraveler's FileAnalyzer, if it has the appropriate text files pre-created for the relevant data files. This provides very secure input, since data positions and values are defined by their relationship to the nearest preceding key text words.

TimeTraveler's TweakFile program is very competent, and has a wider range of pre-defined text files for different data files, but data positions seem to be defined relative to the first byte of the data file. If the size of the file changes, you may find that you get access to irrelevant data bytes. Most variables used in SH3 are, for some reason, single floating point (four-byte) variables.

If these fail (i.e. lack of appropriate pre-written text files to access the SH3 data), I shall use a simple hex editor. Usually I use that provided with Microsoft's Visual C++ compiler.

At the time of writing, family commitments prevent me from trying out any of these choices.

Stiebler.

[TheDarkWraith]

curosity setting in....what prog are you using to open the .sim files please?
thanks in advance

hex-editor, I use Hex Workshop 4.2.

[Stiebler]

I've now had had the chance to test these issues.

SH3 FileAnalyzer and Sh3 MiniTweaker (both by TimeTraveler) both lack pre-written rules for examining the turmxy_m_hd.sim files. (Found in the data\object\ folder.)

Therefore I have examined the files with a hex editor and, for convenience, written a rule suitable for use with SH3 FileAnalyzer. This one rule works for all the turms, provided the values of 'xy_m_' are changed (eg, to turm9c_2_hd.sim).

I have raised the max_height of the periscopes (types 0 and 1) by one (metre) for all turms.

I have also lowered the 'maximum wave height' in file scene.dat from the previous value of '256' to '224'.

In testing in Single Mission mode, this combination works perfectly for the purposes I require. The periscope can be raised well above the waves even with winds 15 m/s, the U-boat is more readily detected by convoy ships (escorts and merchants), the lower waves give the merchants better stability (they don't rock so badly), and the nauseating effect of trying to watch a closing convoy in a storm is now greatly reduced.
Also the lower waves largely reduce the massive crew fatigue that occurs when schnorchelling. The crew no longer has to switch between diesel and electric compartments so frequently.

Since SH3FileAnalyzer is not as well known as MiniTweaker, probably because it comes with a much smaller pack of prepared rules, I have packaged up TimeTraveler's original installable executable and a selection of my new rules as file 'SH3FileAnalyzer_Build367.zip'. This can be found at:

http://files.filefront.com/SH3FileAnalyzer+build367spzip/;9222645;/fileinfo.html

However, Filefront's new ruthless deletion policy means that you had better download this file quickly, before it vanishes like everything else.

Thanks again for all your help, RacerBoy and Anvart. I hope you may find the new 'Turm' rule for SH3FileAnalyzer too.

Stiebler.

[Anvart]

...
Thanks again for all your help, RacerBoy and Anvart. I hope you may find the new 'Turm' rule for SH3FileAnalyzer too.

Stiebler.
:lol:
Thanks, Stiebler.
My favorite tool is Hex Edtor ... with its help i can make all ...

[TheDarkWraith]

...
Thanks again for all your help, RacerBoy and Anvart. I hope you may find the new 'Turm' rule for SH3FileAnalyzer too.

Stiebler.
:lol:
Thanks, Stiebler.
My favorite tool is Hex Edtor ... with its help i can make all ...

I have to agree Anvart. The hex editor allows you to turn an idea into reality!

[Hartmann]

Perhaps could be interesting raise the observation periscope and not the attack periscope.:hmm:

[gimpy117]

gah!! might as well make a modern sub with it's really long scope while your at it... god i could imagine it... taking out a convoy with homing torpedos in a seawolf while running silent at 20 knots...all the time the destroyers wondering where your came from and how you can outrun them at silent speed!!

[Castout]

gah!! might as well make a modern sub with it's really long scope while your at it... god i could imagine it... taking out a convoy with homing torpedos in a seawolf while running silent at 20 knots...all the time the destroyers wondering where your came from and how you can outrun them at silent speed!!

Gimpy117 get dangerous waters with LWAMI ver 3.08 mod.
It is what you described minus the graphics fantasy but still extraordinary gameplay. Here you can do Surface Vs Submarine with your friends, Sub VS Sub engagement or simply enjoy the single player. Multi stations manned by multiple player is also possible.

It's a simulator that might be severely lacking in graphics to some but imo it's great. With microphone you can even have more immersive feeling because you order your command with your own voice.

"Make your depth 300m". "Make turns for 7 knots" "Make your course 30" "Stream the starboard towed array"

"Launch tube 1", etc, etc, etc....fun fun fun.

[Stiebler]

Anvart said:
My favorite tool is Hex Edtor ... with its help i can make all ...
RacerBoy said:
I have to agree Anvart. The hex editor allows you to turn an idea into reality!
Points taken, guys.

[Von Manteuffel]

One of the great joys of Subsim and the Community is that there are so many Mods and Modding Tools available that people can "tune" the game to just how they want it. So it's very much a question of "different strokes for different folks."
I'm by no means a total realism buff, but, for what it's worth, I have to agree with the sentiments of others who have posted in this thread that having to deal with the weather is an integral part of the SH3/GWX experience - and here's why:

The physics and math involved with sub-surface turbulence due to surface, or ocean waves is mind-boggling, but one basic is that, in deep water, the sub-surface turbulence has little to do with the height of a wave ( that's where a wave's energy is ) and much more to do with the length ( distance between crests ) of waves. A very simplified formula is that the turbulence goes down to half the length of the wave - the so-called "wave-base". So, it's possible for even moderate waves with crests 100m apart to disturb the water 50m below the lowest point of the trough. Long swells with widely spaced crests create more and deeper underwater turbulence than high waves with a shorter length.

The height of waves comes in to play when a U-Boat is surfaced, as it is subject to the same vertically rotating motion of the molecules of water in the wave - the churn- result: even in moderate seas, is a rising and falling, often "corkscrewing" platform which makes a surface attack impossible.

Dive to periscope depth and the sub-surface turbulence makes life just as unpleasant and firing an unguided torpedo just as pointless. In really heavy (Atlantic storm) seas a boat at periscope depth will be subject to the sub-surface turbulence and possibly some of the surface churn.

There's also the fact that periscopes were rather fragile devices, having to be kept watertight and airtight to prevent fogging. Even the slightest damage to a 'scope through over-flexing could make it useless, so the thought of sticking the 'scope up in the teeth of gale-force winds and into the raw energy of a wildly churning sea is rather far-fetched :o . I'd like a mod which warns the Kaleun that raising the periscope risks damage and which, depending on the severity of the weather and seas "topside" can actually result in damage to the 'scope.

IMHO in bad weather, the only thing to do is either dive below the turbulence and wait it out, or surface and enjoy the ride. Any idea of attacking another vessel in such conditions is a step too far away from the real world even for me; and, as I've said, I'm a long way away from being a realism fanatic, but, as I've also said - "What suits, suits."

[Stiebler]

You make strong and valid arguments, von Manteuffel, but don't forget that a U-boat was forced to return occasionally to the surface in the wildest of storms to recharge batteries and renew its air.

BdU doctrine was that any U-boat before surfacing *must* make an all-round periscope sweep, since hydrophones frequently were inadequate by themselves. To take an obvious example, there might be a ship stopped (for whatever reason, maybe storm-damaged engines) immediately next to where the U-boat intends to surface.

There's no point in making the periscope sweep if you can't see further than a 10 meter radius in stormy seas. That is why the original periscope depth in SH3/NYGM is too low and its extensibility needs to be raised.

My main motive for reducing the maximum height of waves is partly to compensate for the excessive number of storms encountered in SH3, partly to compensate for the crew tiring too fast when schnorchelling (again, a necessity late in the war), and partly to improve the well known problem (in SH3) of escorts finding it difficult to locate U-boats at periscope depth.

These are examples of what I call 'compensatory realism'. If you can't fix all parameters accurately, then, instead of fixing just some parameters accurately and getting a mixed result, you change the adjustable parameters just enough to give the best achievable balance of all parameters (including those you cannot alter) for realism.

I made a thread called 'compensatory realism' about two years ago, for those who went to follow it further.

Stiebler.