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Beery
03-27-07, 11:00 AM
Latest version: 1.12
http://www.beerymod.com/SH4/RFB112.7z (http://www.beerymod.com/SH4/RFB001.7z)

RFB 1.12 discussion thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110993

Rather than release tons of little mods I've decided to release the first Real Fleet Boat mod (I can't remember who suggested the name first, but it's a good name I reckon) now.

This first version is really just a way for me to get started. All it contains is GunMod's new sun graphic, the removed intro movies and a realism settings config file so that 'realistic' (minus the restricted camera view) is the default setting for the game. All of the settings and files first appeared in SH3 and their authors are listed in the readme file.

The sun graphic is the same one that was in RUb. It turns the game's sun from this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Beery/OldSun.jpg

...to this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Beery/NewSun.jpg

I'm not advertising it on the main SH4 forum because it's really not what I'd call a proper mod. It's currently called RFB0.01 - I reckon it needs a bunch more files before I can call it RFB 1.0

Anyway, the download can be found at the top of this message. The latest version is also up there.

Here's the part of the readme that details the additions to the game:

Version 0.01:
070326: Removed Ubisoft logo movie. Mod by 9th Flotilla (Data\Movies\Intro\Logo.wmv).
070326: Removed intro movie. Mod by Beery (Data\Movies\Intro\Intro.wmv).
070327: Adjusted realism settings to make 'Realistic' the default game setting and to remove the penalty for using the outside camera view. Mod by Beery (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070327: Added realistic sun graphic. Mod by GunMod (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\sun_b.tga).
----------------------------
Version 0.02:
070327: Added part of Realistic Plotting mod from RUb. Original mod by GouldJG with additional content by Observer (Data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg).
070327: Added Greenlamp mod. Mod by Jimimadrid (Data\Menu\Gui\Layout\HUD.dds, HUD.tga, HUD_AdversarialMode.tga, ReplayElements.dds, ReplayElements.tga).
070327: Added Realistic Battery Life mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.sim).
070328: Added Crush Depths mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.cfg, NSS_Tambor.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.cfg, NSS_Sargo.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.cfg, NSS_Salmon.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.cfg, NSS_Porpoise.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg, NSS_Gato.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.cfg, NSS_Balao.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_s18\NSS_s18.cfg, NSS_s18.zon).
070328: Added 'RealisticShipSinkingTime=true' to gameplay settings. Mod by Galanti (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070328: Added realistic moon graphic. Mod by Ailantd & Beery (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\Moon.dds, moon_hallo.dds).
----------------------------
Version 0.03
070328: Removed orange U-boat position marker. Mod by Beery (data\Misc\UMark.dds).
070329: Added mod name and version number to loading screen. Mod by Beery (data\Menu\Loading\Intro_logo_bkg.dds).
070329: Added 16 new campaign start dates to complement the game's video briefings. Mod by Beery (Data\UPCData\UPCCampaignData\CareerStart.upc, CareerVideoBriefings.upc).

Beery
03-27-07, 11:02 AM
If anyone has a mod they'd like included in RFB let me know here. Let's get the team together again! :)

Sailor Steve
03-27-07, 11:04 AM
Good start! I would recommend adding AIL's Small Moon mod as well. It made a huge difference in SH3, and I'm betting it will work here.

clayton
03-27-07, 11:10 AM
Right on!

How about the CBS radio mod by CaptainCox

The Less radio messages by ParaB

The HUD lamp color by jimimadrid

The Changing radio stations tweak by tedhealy

They are all worthy of a Beery supermod!

Beery
03-27-07, 11:12 AM
Good start! I would recommend adding AIL's Small Moon mod as well. It made a huge difference in SH3, and I'm betting it will work here.

Sadly it doesn't work :( I tested it this morning - the one I tested was the high definition one (the one that was in the last version of RUb). I'm really keen on getting a moon mod but I think it will probably need to be redone.

Banquet
03-27-07, 11:14 AM
And the better battery capacity by CCIP! :D

Beery
03-27-07, 11:15 AM
Right on!

How about the CBS radio mod by CaptainCox

The Less radio messages by ParaB

The HUD lamp color by jimimadrid

The Changing radio stations tweak by tedhealy

They are all worthy of a Beery supermod!

Thanks for the suggestions.

The radio stations mods are all HUGE, so I think they'll have to stay separate (although I would have loved them to be included if they were not so big - assuming the authors were willing). I'll look into the other mods and contact the authors as soon as I have some more time - probably either today or tomorrow.

clayton
03-27-07, 11:17 AM
And the better battery capacity by CCIP! :D

Forgot about that one... Say's a lot when a guy grabs an old Fleet sub manual to mod battery capacity...:up:

ryuzu
03-27-07, 11:17 AM
Well this is an auspicious occasion! :yep:

It seems like besides the celebrations here, Ubi should be happy too since it's only the modders that turned SH3 from "must do better" to latter-day "classic".

Thanks in advance for all the work!

As for things to be included...

1) 1 or more (or perhaps a merged collection best bits from the) radio mods
2) Something needs to be done about realism, but I think the research might take a while. In the meantime, how about the mod to limit Enemy convoy reports (this also improves performance a bit)
3) The Key Commands mod - this mod not only replaces the SH4 keys with the SH3 equivalents making it familiar, but it also enables a few functions which are working in the code but not key mapped in the retail release. I've been using them for the last week (almost) and no problems.
4) Clock mod which replaces the (admittedly humourous) Stevens clock, with a faceplate based on a clock brand available at the time.

Good Luck!

r.

bunkerratt
03-27-07, 11:37 AM
how about a way to show/close the dam gages/dials and stations panel....like in sh3 ..ctrl=numdel ?

Hitman
03-27-07, 12:12 PM
Hi Beery,

Congratulations on the start of RFB :D this was a much awaited step from you.

I would like to suggest that RFB concentrates in realistic gameplay and steers away from eye-candy, or at least adds eye-candy as separate packs. I have three good reasons for that:

1.- Serve as base for any future supermods that want to concentrate on other aspects, but that are willing to start from the great level achieved by your projects

2.- Allow users to have increased realism but still being able to choose their own prefered eye-candy mods

3.- Smaller download size

Anything I can help, just call:up:

Cpt-Blaubär
03-27-07, 12:13 PM
do u have a ati card? im not sure but ur sun doesnt look proper too, it should give more bloom effect.

Beery
03-27-07, 12:28 PM
do u have a ati card? im not sure but ur sun doesnt look proper too, it should give more bloom effect.

I have an ATI card (Radeon X-1600XT). This is the same sun we used in RUb. It looks exactly the same as it did in RUb to me. I was getting no bloom effect at all with the stock sun - this one made it much more realistic-looking on my computer. Basically all this file does is make the sun smaller, but as a result of this the halo around the sun tends to make its outline less clear. To me this makes it look better.

In the regular game the sun is many times larger than the real sun appears in the sky. All games make suns way too big, so some players have had problems adjusting to a truly realistic sun size.

clayton
03-27-07, 12:38 PM
I sort of like that Rising Sun :sunny:

Beery
03-27-07, 12:46 PM
I would like to suggest that RFB concentrates in realistic gameplay and steers away from eye-candy...

RFB will not be as large as RUb was. I am making a conscious effort to avoid adding large scale mods, mods that will be of limited popularity, mods that adjust the UI for reasons other than playability, or mods that are purely for eye candy. However, some mods that clean up the interface, like the Greenlamp mod, could be seen by some as eye candy, but I will be including such mods (if the authors allow me to) as they improve gameplay greatly.

The reason I can make RFB smaller this time is that since Jaesen Jones made the advanced version of his Mod Enabler, making one all-encompassing mod package is no longer all that necessary. With the mod Enabler players can add many mod packages safely. When I started RUb we didn't have the Mod Enabler and even late in RUb's development the Mod Enabler did not have the functionality that it now has, which enables it to warn the user of potential mod conflicts.

I think what will tend to happen is that the community will divide responsibility for mods based on the files that can cause conflicts. For example I imagine a radio mod team will develop because the radio.ini file makes it so hard for individuals to make mods that don't conflict with those of other individuals. I'm hoping that the SH4 mod community is as free, open and community-minded as it was with SH3. In fact I'm sure it will be.

FAdmiral
03-27-07, 01:08 PM
I think the thing needed the most is the way AI ships prosecute your
sub and the doctrine they use for searching, detection and attacking.
Here was my latest observation in doing some testing on my created mission:

"Patches from the devs are needed to fix bugs and make changes to the game engine & hard-coded elements.
Everything else (plain text files) can & will be addressed by the modders but they almost have to wait till the
devs release the patches first. From what I have observed so far: the AI DDs don't have the detection down
pat in SH4 like the Brit. DDs did in SH3 (actually this could be historical) and I can see that happening early in the
war years. The thing that irks me the most is when you do torp and sink a ship in the convoy they are guarding, the DDs don't seem to have a search plan they impliment in order to find you. Detection is one thing but looking for an enemy sub that just attacked the convoy the DD was guarding is lacking here. In plain words, the DDs in SH4 are just NOT doing their
job right. This may be hard-coded and a patch is needed to fix it. American Sub Doctrine at the start of WW2 in the
pacific was to protect the BB TFs and sink enemy warships (same as Japans). Adm Nimitz changed all that when he
figured that Japan, like England, was an island nation and needed to ship in all the resources to sustain itself. So he
used the German approach to go after the merchant & tanker ships (or convoys later) doing the resupply. I think that
caught Japan off-guard in relation to what American Subs would be doing till at least late in 1942 when they finally
started to catch on...."


JIM

LukeFF
03-27-07, 02:46 PM
If you want some changes/mods to the menu.txt file, here's one for the medal citation. The wording is taken exactly from an actual Navy Cross citation awarded to a submarine commander serving in the PTO. The "NEWLINE" formatting might need to be adjusted, but I think this wording is much better:

5890=The #MEDALNAME# is presented to #NAME#, #TITLE#, U.S. Navy, for distinguished service in the line of his profession as Commanding Officer of the Submarine #SUBMARINENAME# during a war patrol of that vessel. His outstanding courage and determined skill were at all times inspiring and in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Dowly
03-27-07, 02:56 PM
how about a way to show/close the dam gages/dials and stations panel....like in sh3 ..ctrl=numdel ?

Sry for the slight OT Beery, but:

CTRL+NumpadDel gets rid of the orange submarker both in SH4 & SHIII. Try pressing just the NumPadDel. :up:

Beery
03-27-07, 03:08 PM
CTRL+NumpadDel gets rid of the orange submarker both in SH4 & SHIII.

But apart from a mod there's no way to get rid of it permanently, right? You have to hit Ctrl+Del every single time you do a patrol?

guynoir
03-27-07, 03:09 PM
Hey Beery, I think Cpt-Blaubär's right about the ATI sun problem. I've seen some other guys talk about it already, but here's how my sun looks on a 7800gt nvidia:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2267/07rw6.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2267/07rw6.jpg)

It seems like some or all ATI cards aren't rendering the bloom around the sun properly...

Funny enough, my sun loses the bloom around it when I line it up behind the edge of my sub's deck...


It's great to hear that you're starting up a mod for SHIV, though... I've always been a huge fan of the mods you've done for other games through the years.

bunkerratt
03-27-07, 03:24 PM
ctrl +del does nothing in sh4.....the compas speed and depth gages still sit on the lower right of the screen...as well as the station panel on the lower left....

ryuzu
03-27-07, 04:17 PM
ctrl +del does nothing in sh4.....the compas speed and depth gages still sit on the lower right of the screen...as well as the station panel on the lower left....


EDIT : I wrote this and then realised I'm using the key commands mod! LOL So.... with the Key Commands mod :

CTRL + DEL gets rid of the big orange marker on the surface of the sea when you view your sub from outside.

The numpad ./DEL key hides the interface.

r.

CCIP
03-27-07, 04:19 PM
Feel free to plug in any of my tweaks so far! (namely controls, depth and battery mods)
Definitely a most welcome effort.

Sailor Steve
03-27-07, 04:48 PM
CTRL+NumpadDel gets rid of the orange submarker both in SH4 & SHIII.

But apart from a mod there's no way to get rid of it permanently, right? You have to hit Ctrl+Del every single time you do a patrol?
In SH3 you could just throw it in the trash, with no ill effect whatsoever.

PeriscopeDepth
03-27-07, 04:55 PM
I also vote for a focus on realism. nvdrifter, Ducimus, and CCIP have already made steps in this direction. Good to hear that RFB is underway!

PD

bunkerratt
03-27-07, 06:14 PM
ok got rid of the gages and station bar...tyvm ..tyvm...:up:

Beery
03-27-07, 06:33 PM
Hey Beery, I think Cpt-Blaubär's right about the ATI sun problem. I've seen some other guys talk about it already...

It's not really bloom that's the problem though. Even on an Nvidia card if there's fog the sun's disc will be way too big. That's what the new sun mod addresses. Purely by chance it also happens to fix the bloom problem on ATI cards, but that wasn't the intention of the mod.

In short, the game's sun is too big and that's all the mod was meant to fix.

Beery
03-27-07, 06:41 PM
CTRL+NumpadDel gets rid of the orange submarker both in SH4 & SHIII.

But apart from a mod there's no way to get rid of it permanently, right? You have to hit Ctrl+Del every single time you do a patrol?
In SH3 you could just throw it in the trash, with no ill effect whatsoever.

Thanks, I'll try that

I'm hoping to address it with a mod at some point, but unfortunately for a mod to be able to address the issue it's going to require a file to overwrite the old one. I'm sure I'll figure out a way to mod it eventually - I'm getting Photoshop Elements tomorrow (drool), so that will help.

Beery
03-27-07, 06:44 PM
Feel free to plug in any of my tweaks so far! (namely controls, depth and battery mods)
Definitely a most welcome effort.

Thanks. Good to see you plugging away at SH4. It will be nice to work alongside the same people again. SH3 was great fun with you and Egan around. I'm sure it will be the same with SH4.

Nico71
03-27-07, 08:05 PM
Good to see this happen with SH4 as well! :up: And good to see the old gang here! Can't wait to see SH4 on the same level as SH3. I think that the mods will come in at a faster rate this time because the how-to is better known by now. Remember how much time we needed just for experimenting in SH3.......oh my! :doh:

Beery
03-27-07, 08:38 PM
Hi Nico! Good to see you here. :)

Lannes
03-27-07, 10:04 PM
As someone who has quietly and appreciatively enjoyed Beery's and all the other great SH3 modders' work over the past 2 years, I want to say thank you in advance for taking up the standard and going forward to realize SH4's potential.

Thanks!:rock:

CCIP
03-27-07, 10:31 PM
Wow, quite the reunion here now!

I'll have to caution you folks though, you're not going to see anything but minor tweaks from me for the next month, my work schedule just won't allow it. Which may as well be perfect because by the time I can invest time into serious modding of the game we should get another patch here.

bunkerratt
03-27-07, 10:39 PM
would it be possible to get the boats to sit correctly in the water for the correct class?

Anachronous
03-27-07, 11:26 PM
Depth charge shake would be cool. I like the idea of the boat shaking more for closer blasts.

DeePsix501
03-27-07, 11:56 PM
Looking forward to more from you guys! Always been a big fan of all the mods you put forward in SH3.

I Think the sun looks great with this small texture. Thanks Beery! :up:

Nico71
03-28-07, 06:05 AM
For the moment I'm just lurking here, watching the development. At least there is no Starforce that could kick me out of the process this time! ;)

Egan
03-28-07, 01:08 PM
Pfft! Ah come on Nico - you know you want too!

Still looking through the files for something really interesting. I'm going to have a good long look at the new campaign structure over the weekend I think. I also wanted to fix the length of time it takes to carry out a refit as it is instant at the moment but it isn't where I expected it to be. The read_me claimed that days in port was variable now so all that stuff must be somewhere other than the basic cfg where it used to be. The numbers still there are the same as they were for SH3.

The aircraft look juicy though. I don't remember them carrying DCs or torps before.

Anyways. Scotland versus Italy on the TV tonight. I'm likely to be too tense to do much modding!

Nico71
03-28-07, 01:28 PM
Hey Egan! Good to see you here! Well, I'm unsure about what is in the works already and what has still to be done. It's somewhat chaotic around here at the moment. I like the new file system of the campaign layers. This should make modding by different persons much easier. I didn't touch the editor for two years, though.

I think that port defenses need some overhaul (same procedure as with SH3). And many new locations of course.

The only thing I did so far was to do a hi-res scan (300 dpi) of a huge reprinted National Geographic 1942 Pacific Theatre map. It shows a lot of navigation aids, like distances, naval bases, etc. It still needs some Photoshop tweaking, but if anyone is interested I can upload it ASAP (some 20 megs as GIF or so). Not really a mod, but a nice and somewhat useful gimmick, especially for modding!

Another note: modders should check out the Matrixgames WITP databases (available as XLS). No need to reinvent the wheel!

castorp345
03-28-07, 01:40 PM
The only thing I did so far was to do a hi-res scan (300 dpi) of a huge reprinted National Geographic 1942 Pacific Theatre map. It shows a lot of navigation aids, like distances, naval bases, etc. It still needs some Photoshop tweaking, but if anyone is interested I can upload it ASAP (some 20 megs as GIF or so). Not really a mod, but a nice and somewhat useful gimmick, especially for modding!


sounds great!
yes please! :D

Beery
03-28-07, 03:33 PM
I've added the latest version (v0.02).

A few mods are added, plus I got Ailantd's moon mod working as a dds file and I adjusted the halo graphic to suit it, so it now works in SH4.

Version 0.01:
070326: Removed Ubisoft logo movie. Mod by 9th Flotilla (Data\Movies\Intro\Logo.wmv).
070326: Removed intro movie. Mod by Beery (Data\Movies\Intro\Intro.wmv).
070327: Adjusted realism settings to make 'Realistic' the default game setting and to remove the penalty for using the outside camera view. Mod by Beery (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070327: Added realistic sun graphic. Mod by Gunmod (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\sun_b.tga).

Version 0.02:
070327: Added part of Realistic Plotting mod from RUb. Original mod by GouldJG with additional content by Observer (Data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg).
070327: Added Greenlamp mod. Mod by Jimimadrid (Data\Menu\Gui\Layout\HUD.dds, HUD.tga, HUD_AdversarialMode.tga, ReplayElements.dds, ReplayElements.tga).
070327: Added Realistic Battery Life mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.sim).
070328: Added Crush Depths mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.cfg, NSS_Tambor.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.cfg, NSS_Sargo.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.cfg, NSS_Salmon.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.cfg, NSS_Porpoise.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg, NSS_Gato.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.cfg, NSS_Balao.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_s18\NSS_s18.cfg, NSS_s18.zon).
070328: Added 'RealisticShipSinkingTime=true' to gameplay settings. Mod by Galanti (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070328: Added realistic moon graphic. Mod by Ailantd & Beery (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\Moon.dds, moon_hallo.dds).

gord96
03-28-07, 04:28 PM
what does the crush depth and batt life mods do?

also...how do i install this mod?

Crueak
03-28-07, 04:31 PM
what does the crush depth and batt life mods do?

also...how do i install this mod?

the crush depth increases the depths you can go underwater till your sub implodes, and the battery life mods increases the duration of time while on battery power to more realistic times.

gord96
03-28-07, 04:34 PM
fantastic!

anyword on how to install?

edit: oh yeah. whats the realistic plotting mod all about?

Forlorn
03-28-07, 04:38 PM
Thx Beery. Readme is not updated in 0.02. ;)

Beery
03-28-07, 07:05 PM
Yeah. I noticed that right after I sent it LOL. All the info is still there but I forgot to label some of it 'version 0.02'.

Beery
03-28-07, 07:08 PM
fantastic!

anyword on how to install?

edit: oh yeah. whats the realistic plotting mod all about?

Installation instructions are in the download. The realistic plotting mod is the RUb version of what people are now calling 'less radio messages' - you get fewer radio messages telling of ship contacts in the area.

waste gate
03-28-07, 07:08 PM
Can we just call the MOD RFB in the thread title? The long title is throwing me off the mark.

Beery
03-28-07, 07:28 PM
Can we just call the MOD RFB in the thread title? The long title is throwing me off the mark.

If I do that I'll get people asking me why I made a mod called "Ready For Booty". :doh:

OS1Mac
03-28-07, 08:41 PM
Thanks, Beery! :up:

fullmetaledges
03-28-07, 08:57 PM
you can add the real medals mod when it's done, right nows it's a work in progress, I will keep you posted.

AVGWarhawk
03-28-07, 09:02 PM
:rock: Go man go!!!! Thanks Beery

Beery
03-28-07, 09:27 PM
you can add the real medals mod when it's done, right nows it's a work in progress, I will keep you posted.

Thanks. I keep checking on its progress as I'm really looking forward to it, but I don't want to rush you. As soon as it's done I'll plug it into RFB.

Patch
03-28-07, 09:37 PM
Just wanted to express my thanks and appreciation to all of you who are putting the time in on all these great mods!!!

Dustyboats
03-29-07, 04:01 AM
You certainly come high on my list for following your Posts. Great stuff !!!
P.S. I'm the 71yr old Newbie who only remembers, Diodes, Triodes and Pentodes. The Transistor was the most modern thing when I left boats after 20yrs in them. So I shall search for your guidance........Thanks for all your hard work...VERY best regards .....Dusty

monsoonrat
03-29-07, 09:08 AM
Beery,

Nice to see you modding again, seems your sabatical has re-energized you again...slow down as we don't want you getting burnt out again too soon and look forward to all the great mods that are waiting to come out. BTW, Thank you for sharing your ideas past/present/future mods.

letterboy1
03-29-07, 12:44 PM
Beery, since there is a key combination to get rid of the orange sub marker, doesn't that mean that there is an ini entry somewhere? If it has to be implemented every time you play the game, then it obviously gets reset, so entering a "False" value (or whatever it uses) would be a moot point. What would happen if the entire line were deleted? I'm at work and can't check.

Banquet
03-29-07, 01:06 PM
Thanks Beery and all the people that have contributed these mods. It's looking great so far! :)

Beery
03-29-07, 01:42 PM
Beery, since there is a key combination to get rid of the orange sub marker, doesn't that mean that there is an ini entry somewhere? If it has to be implemented every time you play the game, then it obviously gets reset, so entering a "False" value (or whatever it uses) would be a moot point. What would happen if the entire line were deleted? I'm at work and can't check.

Interesting idea. Although what I've done for the next version of RFB is to use the same method we used in RUb - I simply made the graphic file invisible.

LukeFF
03-29-07, 02:05 PM
Beery, since there is a key combination to get rid of the orange sub marker, doesn't that mean that there is an ini entry somewhere? If it has to be implemented every time you play the game, then it obviously gets reset, so entering a "False" value (or whatever it uses) would be a moot point. What would happen if the entire line were deleted? I'm at work and can't check.

All you have to do is delete the "UMark" file to get rid of the orange marker.

Beery
03-29-07, 02:38 PM
Beery, since there is a key combination to get rid of the orange sub marker, doesn't that mean that there is an ini entry somewhere? If it has to be implemented every time you play the game, then it obviously gets reset, so entering a "False" value (or whatever it uses) would be a moot point. What would happen if the entire line were deleted? I'm at work and can't check.

All you have to do is delete the "UMark" file to get rid of the orange marker.

Yeah, but a mod can't delete a file - it can only adjust it or replace it. So I could delete it on my game, but everyone else would have to find it and delete it themselves, and some folks want me to do that for them.

Beery
03-29-07, 05:55 PM
www.beerymod.com/SH4/RFB003.7z (http://www.beerymod.com/SH4/RFB003.7z)

Here's a new version (0.03) of the RFB mod. Sorry I'm putting these out so fast. I just can't stop and this one has a great new feature that I've been working on all day:

This new mod comes with 16 new start dates (so 20 in all), covering the entire war from the attack on Pearl Harbor to the attack on Okinawa in June 1945. The start dates have been specifically selected to showcase the game's video briefing movies - you see a different one with every campaign start.

For now the start dates haven't received the full treatment with regard to historical realism - some of the boats available may be historically inaccurate. I'll fix these details later when I get hold of some data.

Here's the part of the readme that details the additions to the game:

Version 0.01:
070326: Removed Ubisoft logo movie. Mod by 9th Flotilla (Data\Movies\Intro\Logo.wmv).
070326: Removed intro movie. Mod by Beery (Data\Movies\Intro\Intro.wmv).
070327: Adjusted realism settings to make 'Realistic' the default game setting and to remove the penalty for using the outside camera view. Mod by Beery (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070327: Added realistic sun graphic. Mod by GunMod (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\sun_b.tga).
----------------------------
Version 0.02:
070327: Added part of Realistic Plotting mod from RUb. Original mod by GouldJG with additional content by Observer (Data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg).
070327: Added Greenlamp mod. Mod by Jimimadrid (Data\Menu\Gui\Layout\HUD.dds, HUD.tga, HUD_AdversarialMode.tga, ReplayElements.dds, ReplayElements.tga).
070327: Added Realistic Battery Life mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.sim, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.sim).
070328: Added Crush Depths mod. Mod by CCIP (Data\Submarine\NSS_Tambor\NSS_Tambor.cfg, NSS_Tambor.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.cfg, NSS_Sargo.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Salmon\NSS_Salmon.cfg, NSS_Salmon.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise.cfg, NSS_Porpoise.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg, NSS_Gato.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_Balao\NSS_Balao.cfg, NSS_Balao.zon, Data\Submarine\NSS_s18\NSS_s18.cfg, NSS_s18.zon).
070328: Added 'RealisticShipSinkingTime=true' to gameplay settings. Mod by Galanti (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).
070328: Added realistic moon graphic. Mod by Ailantd & Beery (Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\Moon.dds, moon_hallo.dds).
----------------------------
Version 0.03
070328: Removed orange U-boat position marker. Mod by Beery (data\Misc\UMark.dds).
070329: Added mod name and version number to loading screen. Mod by Beery (data\Menu\Loading\Intro_logo_bkg.dds).
070329: Added 16 new campaign start dates to complement the game's video briefings. Mod by Beery (Data\UPCData\UPCCampaignData\CareerStart.upc, CareerVideoBriefings.upc).

castorp345
03-29-07, 06:36 PM
nice work.
keep 'em com'n, beery!

Barkhorn1x
03-29-07, 07:07 PM
Good stuff Beery old chap!

Barkhorn.

Dane
03-29-07, 09:53 PM
I have a question though. When going thru the enabling process it says that installation of these mods may have an affect of earlier installed mods. I had installed a few others such as the realistic battery life mods and greenlamp or light mod. Is it possible I will see an adverse affect, or will it just simply overwrite or have no affect on them? Thanks for your important work

Beery
03-29-07, 10:16 PM
I have a question though. When going thru the enabling process it says that installation of these mods may have an affect of earlier installed mods. I had installed a few others such as the realistic battery life mods and greenlamp or light mod. Is it possible I will see an adverse affect, or will it just simply overwrite or have no affect on them? Thanks for your important work

If JSGME gives that warning, then it's best to remove the older files. However the mods you mentioned are both included in RFB, so the older files will be entirely overwritten. But Jaesen's the guy to talk to about how JSGME handles such an incident. I know that in general it can get messy if potentially conflicting mods keep getting overwritten, and weird things can start to happen if things get really messy and the game can end up needing to be uninstalled and reinstalled, so I always advise people against overwriting old mods if they can possibly avoid it. JSGME helps avoid these problems, but it's still best to avoid the issue.

jimimadrid
03-30-07, 01:27 AM
Beery,

it could be helpfull for the people to add also my wounded and dead icons in your mod. It helps to see better the difference between wounded or dead crew member.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7674/woundedenum2.jpg

LINK: http://www.file-upload.net/download-234598/jimimadrid--s_Icon--s.rar.html

Forlorn
03-30-07, 02:04 AM
Sorry I'm putting these out so fast. I just can't stop and this one has a great new feature that I've been working on all day

No worries, Berry - it's like Xmas every day. ;) :up:

Beery
03-30-07, 07:18 AM
Beery,

it could be helpfull for the people to add also my wounded and dead icons in your mod. It helps to see better the difference between wounded or dead crew member.

Thanks. I will do that in the next version. :up:

castorp345
03-30-07, 07:34 AM
you might also, if you're so inclined, try the new values for the thermal layer i came up with (see ==> http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109573): (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109573%29:)

in sim.cfg, under [Hydrophone] set -

Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.7032 ; where '1' means no signal reduction and '3' equals signal reduction to 33%, then '1.7032'=signal reduction by 22.5% (ie the angle of refraction assuming an averaged 45deg initial source)

and under [Sonar] set -

Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=2.0078 ; where '1' means no signal reduction and '5' equals signal reduction to 20%, assuming a HF pulse of 35KHz and max 'nominal' emmissions of c20KHz gives a modifier of 1.75 which, when compounded (to account for crossing the thermocline twice), produces '2.0078'=signal reduction by 19.69% (apparent attenuation)

Beery
03-30-07, 07:39 AM
Hehe, maybe it's because I just woke up, but I have no idea what all that means. Does it mean that the chances of hearing the sub increase by a couple of percent using the tweak?

castorp345
03-30-07, 08:28 AM
Hehe, maybe it's because I just woke up, but I have no idea what all that means. Does it mean that the chances of hearing the sub increase by a couple of percent using the tweak?
hehehe

yes.

in stock, the chance of passive detection when under the layer is reduced to 33% of it's value when above the layer, and to 20% in the case of active.

with the values i figured the chance of passive detection when under the layer is 77.5% of it's value when above the layer, and 80.31% in the case of active.

(ie a considerable toning-down of the stock thermocline effect)

also, if date-based cfg file editing/replacement happens eventually through some 3rd party app then i'm considering adjusting as well for seasonal variation.

Beery
03-30-07, 09:44 AM
The thing is, I'm not at all sure if making the thermal layer effect less effective is the way to go. My memory is a bit fuzzy so I might be mistaken, but during the time when I was working on SH3 I seem to recall reading somewhere that in WWII the vast majority of subs that were sunk were attacked at or near the surface. Subs that got deep enough before their attackers got close enough to launch depth charges usually evaded detection and often survived even prolonged depth charge attacks because sensors simply had little chance of detecting deep subs. If subs that got deep were caught it was usually because the pursuing vessels were hunter-killers that could stick around until the sub had to resurface.

If the above is the case it argues for a strong thermal layer effect to counterbalance what may well be overmodelled sensors in SH4's ships (if they're anything like those of SH3).

Perhaps this would be a good subject for a modmaker discussion session. I think we need to figure out how effective SH4's sensor models really are. I'd hate to be in a situation we found commonplace in SH3 - to be caught by a ship's sensors and unable to escape no matter what evasive techniques we used.

Bilge_Rat
03-30-07, 10:04 AM
If you look at Dangerous Waters which now has a pretty good model of underwater sound propagation, thermal layers have a big impact in blocking out or deflecting sounds.

castorp345
03-30-07, 10:06 AM
The thing is, I'm not at all sure if making the thermal layer effect less effective is the way to go. My memory is a bit fuzzy so I might be mistaken, but during the time when I was working on SH3 I seem to recall reading somewhere that in WWII the vast majority of subs that were sunk were attacked at or near the surface. Subs that got deep enough before their attackers got close enough to launch depth charges usually evaded detection and often survived even prolonged depth charge attacks because sensors simply had little chance of detecting deep subs. If subs that got deep were caught it was usually because the pursuing vessels were hunter-killers that could stick around until the sub had to resurface.

If the above is the case it argues for a strong thermal layer effect to counterbalance what may well be overmodelled sensors in SH4's ships (if they're anything like those of SH3).

Perhaps this would be a good subject for a modmaker discussion session. I think we need to figure out how effective SH4's sensor models really are. I'd hate to be in a situation we found commonplace in SH3 - to be caught by a ship's sensors and unable to escape no matter what evasive techniques we used.

i agree this would make for a good discussion session.

with the numbers i figured there i was trying to get at a theoretical value for what the actual attenuation effect would be, but of course you're correct that historical circumstance might very well indicate otherwise (and that my figuring is off the mark)...

i'm really not interested in using the layer as a 'fix' for asw behavior though, but rather would like to try and model the 'actual' effect it'd have on the in-game sensor mechanics.

the stock value's reduction to 20%/33% of above-the-layer values seems extreme (which prompted my trying to calculate 'accurate' values in the first place), but perhaps the refraction effect really is that pronounced?
:hmm:

if any dw gurus are hanging about perhaps they might shed some light on the subject?

i think i'll go ahead and post in the dw forum and see if some of those sonalyst chaps might be able to assist in determing correct values for the attenuation effect...

cheers
hc

castorp345
03-30-07, 10:07 AM
If you look at Dangerous Waters which now has a pretty good model of underwater sound propagation, thermal layers have a big impact in blocking out or deflecting sounds.
hehehe
beat me to the punch
:D

the question is of course what does "big" actually mean...
:hmm:

Beery
03-30-07, 10:15 AM
I think it's great that you're working towards full realism, and I'd really love to be able to use your numbers if we can achieve full realism in this regard. But there's a huge spectre looming over us, and that's the fact that the devs made certain sensors in SH3 literally unbeatable. Until I'm assured that that issue is behind us I'll be proceeding very cautiously on any issue that has to do with sensor effectiveness, as my goal of realistic results may require that some details be fudged to counterbalance the devs' sometimes half-assed (or was it overzealous?) implementation of certain features. I'm thinking that the thermal layer is a detail that may be very effective as a slider function to counterbalance a developer's insanely effective sensors. I really wish we'd had it in SH3 - it would have reduced the time we spent trying to overcome the sensor imbalance by weeks.

Bilge_Rat
03-30-07, 10:17 AM
Its hard to know what the effect is, this may be of interest:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm

look at fig. 13 in particular, although based on what I saw in SH3, the sound propagation model is very simple compared to DW.

castorp345
03-30-07, 10:33 AM
Its hard to know what the effect is, this may be of interest:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm

look at fig. 13 in particular, although based on what I saw in SH3, the sound propagation model is very simple compared to DW.
that's a great link.
thanks bilge_rat!

indeed, there really doesn't appear to be any sound propagation model per se in sh4, but rather we're presented with probability range values.

in that regard, of particular interest from the doc you posted i'd cite a couple of things:

the greatest factor of all [the things that can happen to the acoustic wave as it propagates] will be the change in the propagation due to the variations in the speed with temperature, depth and salinity. The change in speed will tend to distort the perfect spherical or cylindrical shape of the wave front. This does not, however, always result in greater transmission losses. ... there are many conditions which tend to concentrate acoustic energy resulting in a lower than expected transmission loss.

...

When rays penetrate below the layer, they are deflected downward. Therefore, the rays diverge above and below the layer. Beyond a certain minimum range, the rays from the source will never reach locations just below the layer.
so i suppose the way to phrase the prime determinant in making this sort of reductionist calculation might be -- what percentage of the ray emissions nominally diverge from those that penetrate the layer?

castorp345
03-30-07, 10:38 AM
I think it's great that you're working towards full realism, and I'd really love to be able to use your numbers if we can achieve full realism in this regard. But there's a huge spectre looming over us, and that's the fact that the devs made certain sensors in SH3 literally unbeatable. Until I'm assured that that issue is behind us I'll be proceeding very cautiously on any issue that has to do with sensor effectiveness, as my goal of realistic results may require that some details be fudged to counterbalance the devs' sometimes half-assed (or was it overzealous?) implementation of certain features. I'm thinking that the thermal layer is a detail that may be very effective as a slider function to counterbalance a developer's insanely effective sensors. I really wish we'd had it in SH3 - it would have reduced the time we spent trying to overcome the sensor imbalance by weeks.
i definitely hear you on this, but aren't the sensors values for all intents and porpoises (couldn't resist given the topic ;)) subject to modification through the the .sim and .cfg files? and wouldn't it be good to proceed with adjusting those after the environmental variables (such as thermocline effects) are straightened out?

[and o.t., but how appropriate is it that my avatar is now "soundman"? :lol: cool!]

castorp345
03-30-07, 10:53 AM
But there's a huge spectre looming over us

communism? the devs are afterall from a former warsaw pact country...
:lol:

Beery
03-30-07, 11:07 AM
...aren't the sensors values for all intents and porpoises (couldn't resist given the topic ;)) subject to modification through the the .sim and .cfg files? and wouldn't it be good to proceed with adjusting those after the environmental variables (such as thermocline effects) are straightened out?

The .sim and .cfg files are available for modification, but we found after literally months of tweaking that they don't allow the range of modification that we needed in order to reduce their effectiveness in a realistic way. They either picked the sub up or they didn't, and if they had you they couldn't be adjusted so that good manoeuvring on the part of the sub allowed it to escape. So we had the choice of completely nerfing them so that any sub could escape at will even when the sub was close to the surface, or we had to leave them effective and reduce the number of ships that carried the uber-sonar (which is, I think, what we ended up doing). There didn't seem to be any middle ground. With a thermal layer that's adjustable we finally have an option (assuming that the uber-sonar will turn up again) to save ourselves weeks of work by just adjusting that one variable rather than combing through the campaign files and removing uber-sonar from 90% of the ships as we did in RUb.

Bilge_Rat
03-30-07, 11:14 AM
so i suppose the way to phrase the prime determinant in making this sort of reductionist calculation might be -- what percentage of the ray emissions nominally diverge from those that penetrate the layer?

That is very hard to answer, from my limited reading on the subject, all sorts of factors can affect how sound travels in the ocean, namely: temperature, salinity, depth, bottom type, type and density of aquatic life, ambient traffic, ocean currents, etc. A sub can be nearly invisible in one environment and stick out like a hooker on a street corner in another. During the cold war, there were many instances when U.S. subs did not hear other subs until they were right on top of them.

However, for dealing with the primitive technology used by all sides in WW2, an effective thermal layer is probably all we need. How effective will have to be determined by trial and error.

By the way in SH3/4, does dropping depth charges render the escorts deaf until the water settles down?

castorp345
03-30-07, 11:22 AM
we had the choice of completely nerfing them so that any sub could escape at will even when the sub was close to the surface, or we had to leave them effective and reduce the number of ships that carried the uber-sonar (which is, I think, what we ended up doing). There didn't seem to be any middle ground.
that is a problem!
:hmm:

With a thermal layer that's adjustable we finally have an option (assuming that the uber-sonar will turn up again) to save ourselves weeks of work by just adjusting that one variable rather than combing through the campaign files and removing uber-sonar from 90% of the ships as we did in RUb.
perhaps one middle-ground solution might be to formulate a range of acceptable values for the thermocline effects (including season, location [read from the player's campaign files], and salinity) and have some 3rd party app input random entries based on that range into the sim.cfg?
(with the obvious caveat that it'd be globally valid until the user quits and reloads)

castorp345
03-30-07, 11:24 AM
for dealing with the primitive technology used by all sides in WW2, an effective thermal layer is probably all we need.

and indeed it seems that's 'all' we've been given! :D

Beery
03-30-07, 12:13 PM
I'm just curious - where is this thermal layer file located. Also, where is the thermal layer located (i.e. how deep do you have to get to get under it)?

castorp345
03-30-07, 12:20 PM
I'm just curious - where is this thermal layer file located. Also, where is the thermal layer located (i.e. how deep do you have to get to get under it)?
the settings for the thermal layer's effects appear to be mostly in the sim.cfg.
'haven't located if there's a depth setting for it yet (though i suspect that it might be hardcoded)... if i remember correctly it seems as though it's pretty shallow (around 185 feet or so), but then i forget exactly as i turned off the voice report of "now passing thermal layer" since my s-class doesn't have a bt installed yet. ;)

(someone who hasn't turned off the notification can say for sure here)

Dustyboats
03-30-07, 02:27 PM
It appears that on the "Range, AOB, Speed" dial, when at the periscope, it is missing two other "click me" items on the EU DVD. As I watched Neal's film he was able to "Lock on target" on this dial as well as another function I cannot quite catch. I am sorry if this is not technically explained, but wondered if youd care to have a look and comment.
I thought this might be due to the type of boat he was using. However I cannot find these items on the Porpoise or the Gar....haven't looked at the Tabor yet.
These items seemed so important too.....My very great THANKS for the work you are doing I am following very closely.....Best Regards....Dusty

U-Bones
03-30-07, 02:31 PM
It appears that on the "Range, AOB, Speed" dial, when at the periscope, it is missing two other "click me" items on the EU DVD. As I watched Neal's film he was able to "Lock on target" on this dial as well as another function I cannot quite catch. I am sorry if this is not technically explained, but wondered if youd care to have a look and comment.
I thought this might be due to the type of boat he was using. However I cannot find these items on the Porpoise or the Gar....haven't looked at the Tabor yet.
These items seemed so important too.....My very great THANKS for the work you are doing I am following very closely.....Best Regards....Dusty

If I am not mistaken, what you are missing is the manual "send to TDC" button that is available only if you play with manual targeting. There is also a button for the split image ranging function.

Dustyboats
03-30-07, 02:39 PM
It appears that on the "Range, AOB, Speed" dial, when at the periscope, it is missing two other "click me" items on the EU DVD. As I watched Neal's film he was able to "Lock on target" on this dial as well as another function I cannot quite catch. I am sorry if this is not technically explained, but wondered if youd care to have a look and comment.
I thought this might be due to the type of boat he was using. However I cannot find these items on the Porpoise or the Gar....haven't looked at the Tabor yet.
These items seemed so important too.....My very great THANKS for the work you are doing I am following very closely.....Best Regards....Dusty

If I am not mistaken, what you are missing is the manual "send to TDC" button that is available only if you play with manual targeting. There is also a button for the split image ranging function.

Aye ther's the rub U-Bones.....I hadn't thought of the Manual Targetting aspect....Bloomin' eck!!! after all thats all we used to do. Cheers dear friend.

Beery
03-30-07, 02:42 PM
I don't know if this has anything to do with the issue, but the RFB default settings are set high, so unless you change settings before a career it defaults to the high settings.

Beery
03-30-07, 03:03 PM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?

nimitstexan
03-30-07, 09:52 PM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?

Do you have Clay Blair's Silent Victory? One of the Appendices in the book is a complete list of all US War Patrols Dec 1941-Aug 1945, organized by base departed from. It list's the subs by name, rather than class, but it would be easy enough (though perhaps somewhat time consuming) to cross reference the name with a class.

clayton
03-30-07, 11:25 PM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?

Call me crazy but I think they may be correct in the game. I've clicked until I've gotten the boat that I wanted to play, referencing http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/04idx.htm and they seem to be in the correct port at the correct time.

LZ_Baker
03-30-07, 11:26 PM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?
Do you have Clay Blair's Silent Victory? One of the Appendices in the book is a complete list of all US War Patrols Dec 1941-Aug 1945, organized by base departed from. It list's the subs by name, rather than class, but it would be easy enough (though perhaps somewhat time consuming) to cross reference the name with a class.

Its acually kinda easy for the earlier classes as all the boats started with the same letter as the first ship -
Sargo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sargo_%28SS-188%29) | Saury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Saury_%28SS-189%29) | Spearfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Spearfish_%28SS-190%29) | Sculpin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sculpin_%28SS-191%29) | Sailfish (ex-Squalus) | Swordfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Swordfish_%28SS-193%29) | Seadragon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Seadragon_%28SS-194%29) | Sealion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sealion_%28SS-195%29) | Searaven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Searaven_%28SS-196%29) | Seawolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Seawolf_%28SS-197%29)

I work for the navy and a few of the guys have BAE poster with a list of all the US subs from the Holland to Virginia. Maybe I can find it somewhere online or just snag one.

Beery
03-31-07, 01:33 AM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?

Do you have Clay Blair's Silent Victory? One of the Appendices in the book is a complete list of all US War Patrols Dec 1941-Aug 1945, organized by base departed from. It list's the subs by name, rather than class, but it would be easy enough (though perhaps somewhat time consuming) to cross reference the name with a class.

The book seems very good - I only got it today so I haven't really started reading it yet. But although the appendices list patrols they don't list what boats types were assigned to each command, what precise dates boats first sailed on offensive patrols, when they returned from their last patrol, what type of boat they were or what squadron or division they belonged to. Basically none of the stuff I'd need to know to enable me to add info to the game or to correct the flotilla.upc, CampaignStart.upc or the submarine roster files is in there.

clayton
03-31-07, 01:40 AM
Maybe this might help though it would require you to have to look up each boat to find out where it was and at what time.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/submar/

Beery
03-31-07, 01:55 AM
I'm finding it hard to get detailed info on types of submarines available at the various ports featured in the game at various time periods. Does anyone know if there's a website or book where I might find such info?

Call me crazy but I think they may be correct in the game. I've clicked until I've gotten the boat that I wanted to play, referencing http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/04idx.htm and they seem to be in the correct port at the correct time.

I'll check that source out, but if I recall correctly the info is only listed on a per-boat basis and in prose form, which makes it a lot harder to check.

Anyway, my main problem is that I need to generate all new availability dates for the different sub types in the CampaignStart.upc file for all the new start dates I've created. The standard game uses none of these dates and the boat type listings in this file aren't determined by any other file that governs boat availability - for example if you put a Balao class sub in the CampaignStart.upc file in December 1941 it will give you a Balao class boat even though the roster files may not have any Balao class boat appearing for three more years.

One thing I've done which gives me a clue as to the first sortie of a boat type is to look at the first boats of the type (which the class is named after), but when I did this with the German boats in SH3 I often found that boats commissioned first weren't always first to do a patrol, and sometimes they were months behind the first boats to sail. I'm a bit worried that this could be the same for the American subs, but the only way to check seems to be to go through the list of boats individually.

I have found one reference that gives a bit of a clue - the New Vanguard book 'US Submarines 1941-45' gives type availability by year, but I'd need at least a monthly list in order to get to the accuracy I'd like. With the U-boat war there were lots of sources from which to get such info - as I recall, Clay Blair's books on the U-Boat war went into much more detail in the appendixes than he goes into for the US subs in 'Silent Victory'.

The other issue is that there seem to be no sources at all which list what types of subs were available for each fleet, nor are there details of which divisions were assigned to each fleet.

Basically there's just a lack of info compared to what I was used to when I was researching for RUb.

Beery
03-31-07, 02:00 AM
Maybe this might help though it would require you to have to look up each boat to find out where it was and at what time.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/submar/

I'm thinking that's what I'll probably have to do. At least it won't be as time consuming as doing so for the German U-boats would have been. If I recall correctly there are only 250 or so boats to research.

Bilge_Rat
03-31-07, 05:52 AM
Beery, are you looking of the info by class?

for example,

-the U.S.S. Gato, lead boat of the Gato class was commissioned in 1941 and went out on its 1st war patrol from Pearl in april '42;


-the U.S.S. Balao, lead boat of the Balao class was commissioned in 1943 and went out on its 1st war patrol from Brisbane in july '43.

Egan
03-31-07, 07:06 AM
Beery: This might be what you need.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/types.html?type=Submarine

Uboat.net has major listing for about 9000 Allied ships and boats in all theatres.

The sub listings are broken down by class and name and include the exact dates they were laid down, launched, commisioned and decommisioned. Gives notable facts which seems to include where they first patrolled from. May not be complete (but certainly looks it.) you should be able to cross reference with other sources to find the exact flottilas and bases should that info be missing here.

Beery
03-31-07, 08:14 AM
Beery, are you looking of the info by class?

Yeah, but I still have to go through every sub. I was thinking more on it this morning though - I think I'm being a bit whiny - I just got spoiled when I was researching the U-boat war, with all the German info in chart form in various books and websites.

Beery
03-31-07, 06:10 PM
Beery: This might be what you need.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/types.html?type=Submarine

Uboat.net has major listing for about 9000 Allied ships and boats in all theatres.

The sub listings are broken down by class and name and include the exact dates they were laid down, launched, commisioned and decommisioned. Gives notable facts which seems to include where they first patrolled from. May not be complete (but certainly looks it.) you should be able to cross reference with other sources to find the exact flottilas and bases should that info be missing here.

Weird - I missed your message until just now.

Wow! I had no idea that U-boat.net had listings for Allied subs. This has a lot of the info I need and contains every patrol start date - just what I need! Thanks! :up:

clayton
03-31-07, 07:40 PM
Beery: This might be what you need.

http://uboat.net/allies/warships/types.html?type=Submarine

Uboat.net has major listing for about 9000 Allied ships and boats in all theatres.

The sub listings are broken down by class and name and include the exact dates they were laid down, launched, commisioned and decommisioned. Gives notable facts which seems to include where they first patrolled from. May not be complete (but certainly looks it.) you should be able to cross reference with other sources to find the exact flottilas and bases should that info be missing here.

Nice!!!

What a quick, easy reference where one doesn't have to go through mountains of reports to get to the heart of the matter. :up:

Egan
04-01-07, 06:10 AM
Never doubt the power of Uboat.net my friends: 'tis the bible for everything shiny and sinkable.

Lots of information on there about everything and everyone.

Actually, looking through it, I had no idea the US operated from a base at Milne bay on New Guinnea. Interesting. Is this in the game?

Beery
04-01-07, 11:31 AM
Never doubt the power of Uboat.net my friends: 'tis the bible for everything shiny and sinkable.

Lots of information on there about everything and everyone.

Actually, looking through it, I had no idea the US operated from a base at Milne bay on New Guinnea. Interesting. Is this in the game?

Not as far as I know. I've been adjusting the sub bases extensively this weekend to improve the game's historical accuracy and I haven't run across it. The following bases are in the game's Flotillas.upc file:

Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (base used throughout the war).
Manila, Philippines (base used during 12/41).
Corregidor, Philippines (not used in the game).
Surabaya, Java (base used from 12/41 to 2/42).
Perth-Fremantle, Australia (base used from 2/42 until the war's end).
Brisbane, Australia (base used throughout the war).
Dutch Harbor, Aleutian Islands (not used in the game).

Beery
04-01-07, 11:56 AM
Right now I'm working on getting the base in the Aleutians up and running.

Beery
04-01-07, 01:17 PM
I now have a working base in the Aleutian Islands!

Now it's just a matter of choosing fitting missions for the boats there.

BBury
04-01-07, 01:18 PM
Very cool, keep up the great work..

Egan
04-01-07, 03:43 PM
Never doubt the power of Uboat.net my friends: 'tis the bible for everything shiny and sinkable.

Lots of information on there about everything and everyone.

Actually, looking through it, I had no idea the US operated from a base at Milne bay on New Guinnea. Interesting. Is this in the game?
Not as far as I know. I've been adjusting the sub bases extensively this weekend to improve the game's historical accuracy and I haven't run across it. The following bases are in the game's Flotillas.upc file:

Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (base used throughout the war).
Manila, Philippines (base used during 12/41).
Corregidor, Philippines (not used in the game).
Surabaya, Java (base used from 12/41 to 2/42).
Perth-Fremantle, Australia (base used from 2/42 until the war's end).
Brisbane, Australia (base used throughout the war).
Dutch Harbor, Aleutian Islands (not used in the game).

Interesting. I just checked out the USNavalBase.mis file in the campaign folder and Milne Bay is there with a sub tender - active after Oct '43.

Lots of US bases in there. I guess most of them are for refits rather than Flotilla bases.

akdavis
04-01-07, 05:43 PM
070327: Added part of Realistic Plotting mod from RUb. Original mod by GouldJG with additional content by Observer (Data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg).


Could someone please offer an explanation of this for those of us who did not use RUb?

Also, I noticed that this:
070328: Added 'RealisticShipSinkingTime=true' to gameplay settings. Mod by Galanti (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).

does not appear in any of the My Documents/SH4 gameplaysettings.cfg files, even after deleting and allowing SH4 to create an new directory after installing RFB. I don't think that setting is being read from the main file. Haven't tried putting it in by hand.

PeriscopeDepth
04-01-07, 07:00 PM
I now have a working base in the Aleutian Islands!

Now it's just a matter of choosing fitting missions for the boats there.

That's awesome! Taking an S-boat on an Aleutian patrol will be sweet! Will there be any ships to sink in that area though?

PD

akdavis
04-01-07, 08:52 PM
I now have a working base in the Aleutian Islands!

Now it's just a matter of choosing fitting missions for the boats there.

That's awesome! Taking an S-boat on an Aleutian patrol will be sweet! Will there be any ships to sink in that area though?

PD

There is no traffic of any kind north of Hokkaido.

On a sidenote, in the course of investigating that, I discovered that the 42b_Jap_SubHunters layer is blank. If anyone is noticeing a sudden gap in ASW patrols during their campaign, that is probably why. 42a and 43a both seem to have content.

LukeFF
04-01-07, 09:20 PM
Wow! I had no idea that U-boat.net had listings for Allied subs. This has a lot of the info I need and contains every patrol start date - just what I need! Thanks! :up:

Dunno if this helps, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_Fleet has a listing for the warships and aircraft present with the Asiatic Fleet on December 8, 1941.

U-Bones
04-01-07, 09:50 PM
I now have a working base in the Aleutian Islands!

Now it's just a matter of choosing fitting missions for the boats there.
That's awesome! Taking an S-boat on an Aleutian patrol will be sweet! Will there be any ships to sink in that area though?

PD
There is no traffic of any kind north of Hokkaido.

On a sidenote, in the course of investigating that, I discovered that the 42b_Jap_SubHunters layer is blank. If anyone is noticeing a sudden gap in ASW patrols during their campaign, that is probably why. 42a and 43a both seem to have content.

LOL, I just cranked UP aircraft for some damage testing and saw nada - zilch on a Patrol in Java Sea in June 42. Not even one "very fast" radar contact. THANKS for posting this, you just saved me hours of head scratching !!

609_Avatar
04-01-07, 10:25 PM
Probably a dumb question here but I'm known for them. :) I see that there are 3 files listed. Do I install all 3 or is the 3rd one the latest and greatest of them all? Thanks!

Keep up the great work, it's appreciated! :up:

Beery
04-02-07, 12:02 AM
The third file is the only one you need. :)

Beery
04-02-07, 12:10 AM
I now have a working base in the Aleutian Islands!

Now it's just a matter of choosing fitting missions for the boats there.

That's awesome! Taking an S-boat on an Aleutian patrol will be sweet! Will there be any ships to sink in that area though?

PD

As has been said, there are no ships north or east of Hokkaido. However, I just did a cruise there on an old S18 Class boat - torpedoed three ships, sunk one. It's a good long trip, but the boat has plenty of fuel for the trip.

But trips to Hokkaido aren't all that historically accurate for boats based in the Aleutians. I'm hoping someone makes a campaign for the Aleutians once the next RFB mod is published. It shouldn't be too hard - probably just a matter of getting the old campaign editor up and running and sending the odd ship between Hokkaido and the bits of the Aleutians the Japanese have invaded.

609_Avatar
04-02-07, 08:12 AM
The third file is the only one you need. :)

That's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. Thanks mate!

akdavis
04-02-07, 10:56 AM
070327: Added part of Realistic Plotting mod from RUb. Original mod by GouldJG with additional content by Observer (Data\Cfg\Contacts.cfg).


Could someone please offer an explanation of this for those of us who did not use RUb?

Also, I noticed that this:
070328: Added 'RealisticShipSinkingTime=true' to gameplay settings. Mod by Galanti (Data\Cfg\GameplaySettings.cfg).

does not appear in any of the My Documents/SH4 gameplaysettings.cfg files, even after deleting and allowing SH4 to create an new directory after installing RFB. I don't think that setting is being read from the main file. Haven't tried putting it in by hand.

Bump for the above question.

Egan
04-02-07, 12:37 PM
I've just backed up the entire camapign + associated files in preparation of work starting on my new Ops-Mod thingy. A slippery slope indeed.

Thats beside the point, though. I'm intrigued by the new campaign files. Lots in there to fix. Lots to add. Lots to remove...:pEasier to work stuff out but I had real problems last night editing one of the files - Every time I tried to save it I ended up with a blank file. can't remember this happening in Sh3 so if anyone has any ideas givev me a shout.

Right. I have a spanking new overclocked 7950 GT and a DVD RW to install - Should you see a blinding flash of light followed by a puff of acrid smoke that was probably me.

Cheers!

LukeFF
04-02-07, 05:31 PM
But trips to Hokkaido aren't all that historically accurate for boats based in the Aleutians. I'm hoping someone makes a campaign for the Aleutians once the next RFB mod is published. It shouldn't be too hard - probably just a matter of getting the old campaign editor up and running and sending the odd ship between Hokkaido and the bits of the Aleutians the Japanese have invaded.
At least one submarine, S-34, was deployed to the Kuriles in April 1942, from Dutch Harbor. You can read up more about it and other North Pacific operations in Samuel Eliot Morison's Volume 4 of his History of United States Naval Operations in World War II.

akdavis
04-02-07, 06:41 PM
Here are some sinking locations for boats out of Dutch Harbor:

2 Jul, 1943
While on her 6th war patrol USS S-35 (Lt. H.S. Monroe) torpedoes and sinks the Japanese crabbing ship Banshu Maru Nr.7 (5490 BRT) off the west coast of the Kamchatka peninsula, Aleutians in position 52.30N, 156.12E."

26 Oct, 1942
While on her 5th war patrol USS S-31 (Lt. R.F. Sellars) torpedoed and sank the Japanese transport ship Keizan Maru (2864 BRT) off Paramushiro in position 50º10'N, 155º36'E.

6 Jun, 1943
While on her 7th war patrol USS S-30 (Lt.Cdr. W.A. Stevenson) sinks the Japanse sailing vessel Nagashige Maru Nr.2 (30 BRT) with gunfire south of Kamchatka in position 50.45N, 156.56E.

10 Jun, 1943
While on her 7th war patrol USS S-30 (Lt.Cdr. W.A. Stevenson) torpedoes and sinks the Japanese merchant Jimbu Maru (5131 BRT) in position 50.23N, 155.36E.

20 Sep, 1943
While on her 7th and final war patrol USS S-28 (Lt. V.A. Sisler) sinks the Japanese auxiliary gunboat Katsura Maru (1368 BRT) some 165 miles southwest of Paramushiro, Kurile Islands in position 49º05'N, 151º45'E.

Also, Halibut did a patrol:

9 Aug, 1942
USS Halibut (Cdr. P.H. Ross) departs Pearl Harbour for her 1st war patrol. She is ordered to patrol off the Aleutians.
23 Sep, 1942
USS Halibut (Cdr. P.H. Ross) ends her 1st war patrol at Dutch Harbour.
2 Oct, 1942
USS Halibut (Cdr. P.H. Ross) departs Dutch Harbour for her 2nd war patrol. Once again she was ordered to patrol off the Aleutians.
31 Oct, 1942
USS Halibut (Cdr. P.H. Ross) ends her 2nd war patrol at Pearl Harbour.

Several boats left Pearl Harbor to patrol Alaskan waters:

Growler:
29 Jun, 1942
USS Growler (Lt.Cdr. H.W. Gilmore) departs Pearl Harbour for her 1st war patrol. She was ordered to patrol in Alaskan waters.
5 Jul, 1942
USS Growler (Lt.Cdr. H.W. Gilmore) torpedoes and sinks the Japanese destroyer Arare (http://www.combinedfleet.com/arare_t.htm) (offsite link) and damages the Japanese destroyers Kasumi (http://www.combinedfleet.com/kasumi_t.htm) (offsite link) and Shiranuhi (http://www.combinedfleet.com/shiran_t.htm) (offsite link) off Kiska, Aleutians in position 52º00'N, 177º40'E. (see map (http://javascript<b></b>:self.name='boats';top.emblem('/maps/pop/index.html?string=http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=52.00N177.40E&MAP-STYLE=popup&ship=','emblemPop',497,294);))

Finback:
25 Jun, 1942
USS Finback (Lt.Cdr. J.L. Hull) departs Pearl Harbour for her 1st war patrol. She is ordered to patrol off the Aleutians.
12 Aug, 1942
USS Finback (Lt.Cdr. J.L. Hull) ends her 1st war patrol at Dutch Harbour.
23 Aug, 1942
USS Finback (Lt.Cdr. J.L. Hull) returns to Pearl Harbour to refit for her 2nd war patrol.

Trigger:
26 Jun, 1942
USS Trigger (Lt.Cdr. J.H. Lewis) departs Pearl Harbour for her 1st war patrol. She is ordered to patrol of the Aleutians.
8 Aug, 1942
USS Trigger (Lt.Cdr. J.H. Lewis) arrives at Dutch Harbour.
15 Aug, 1942
USS Trigger (Lt.Cdr. J.H. Lewis) ends her 1st war patrol at Pearl Harbour.

Triton:
25 Jun, 1942
USS Triton (Lt.Cdr. C.C. Kirkpatrick) departs Pearl Harbour for her 4th war patrol. She is ordered to patrol in Alaskan waters.
4 Jul, 1942
USS Triton (Lt.Cdr. C.C. Kirkpatrick) torpedoes and sinks the Japanese destroyer Nenohi (http://www.combinedfleet.com/nenohi_t.htm) (offsite link) off Cape Sabak, off the southeast tip of Agattu, Aleutians in position 52º15'N, 173º51'E. (see map (http://javascript<b></b>:self.name='boats';top.emblem('/maps/pop/index.html?string=http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=52.15N173.51E&MAP-STYLE=popup&ship=','emblemPop',497,294);))

Grunion:
30 Jun, 1942
USS Grunion (Lt.Cdr. M.L. Abele) departs Pearl Harbour for her 1st war patrol. She is ordered to patrol off Kiska, Aleutians.
15 Jul, 1942
USS Grunion (Lt.Cdr. M.L. Abele) reports that she had attacked an enemy destroyer but that all three torpedoes fired missed the target. Shortly after this report Grunion torpedoes and sinks the Japanese submarine chasers Ch 25 and Ch 27 (both 460 tons) west of Sredni Point, Kiska, Aleutians in position 52.02N, 177.42E. She reports these result immediately. (see map (http://javascript<b></b>:self.name='boats';top.emblem('/maps/pop/index.html?string=http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=52.02N177.42E&MAP-STYLE=popup&ship=','emblemPop',497,294);))
28 Jul, 1942
USS Grunion (Lt.Cdr. M.L. Abele) reports an attack on unidentified enemy ships six miles southeast of Sirius Point, Kiska. She was depth charged after this attack but sustained no damage.
30 Jul, 1942
USS Grunion (Lt.Cdr. M.L. Abele) reported heavy antisubmarine activity at the entrance to Kiska, and that she had ten torpedoes remaining. She was ordered to return to base at Dutch Harbour.
31 Jul, 1942
USS Grunion (Lt.Cdr. M.L. Abele) possibly torpedoes and damages the Japanese transport ship Kano Maru (8572 BRT) off Kiska, Aleutians. Grunion might be sunk by gunfire from her quarry some 10 miles north of Segula Island. The Kano Maru was finally sunk on 8 August 1942 north-east of Kiska by US Bombers and gunfire from US warships.

Gato:
2 Jul, 1942
USS Gato (Lt.Cdr. W.G. Myers) departs Pearl Harbour for her 2nd war patrol. She is ordered to patrol east of the Kuril Islands
29 Aug, 1942
USS Gato (Lt.Cdr. W.G. Myers) ended her 2nd war patrol at Dutch Harbour, Alaska
4 Sep, 1942
USS Gato (Lt.Cdr. R.J. Foley) departs Dutch Harbour for her 3rd war patrol. Initially she is ordered to patrol off Kiska. Later she is sent to the south Pacific (Truk) via Midway and Pearl Harbour. She ended this lenghty, but unsuccesful, patrol at Brisbane, Australia on 23 December 1942.

Tuna:
13 Jul, 1942
USS Tuna (Lt.Cdr. A.H. Holtz) departed Pearl Harbour for her 3rd war patrol. She was ordered to patrol off the Aleutian Islands.
5 Sep, 1942
USS Tuna (Lt.Cdr. A.H. Holtz) ended her 3rd war patrol at Pearl Harbour.

Cachalot:
23 Sep, 1942
USS Cachalot (Lt.Cdr. H.C. Stevenson) left Pearl Harbour for her 3th and final war patrol. She was to patrol in the Bering Sea. After this patrol Cachalot was assigned to training duties.

Dolphin:
24 Jul, 1942
USS Dolphin (Lt.Cdr. R.L. Rutter) ended her 2nd war patrol when she returned to Pearl Harbour.
12 Oct, 1942
USS Dolphin (Lt.Cdr. R.L. Rutter) left base for her 3th war patrol. She was to patrol of the Kuril Islands.
5 Dec, 1942
USS Dolphin (Lt.Cdr. R.L. Rutter) ended her 3th and last war patrol. With new construction submarines available for offensive war patrols, the older Dolphin was assigned to training duties.

Beery
04-02-07, 06:59 PM
The Aleutian-based S-Boats did get as far as the Kurile Islands but they got nowhere near Hokkaido. As I understand it they never got much farther than the first island in the chain - Paramushir - which is about 6,000 nautical miles from Hokkaido. The game's closest mission goal is Hokkaido.

Another problem, as far as the game goes, is that there are no defences stopping Aleutian-based boats from getting to Hokkaido and wreaking havoc - and the harbours are going to be the targets that you get to first. I spent a day in one of Hokkaido's harbours just shooting torpedoes and then I just wandered off with no pursuing destroyers or escorts.

One more problem is that in real life the WWI-era S-18 Class boats were virtual death traps - they were not really suited to long ocean voyages. From what I've read the trip to Paramushir was a test of survival in itself and these boats were really only suited to operations in the Aleutian chain. Yet in the game a trip to Hokkaido is fairly uneventful - you never get breakdowns.

Beery
04-02-07, 07:08 PM
I've just backed up the entire camapign + associated files in preparation of work starting on my new Ops-Mod thingy. A slippery slope indeed.

That is good news!

Can we perhaps hope to see a little Aleutian ops mod? The Hokkaido harbours could do with an escort each and I'd like to see some supply ships going to the Western Aleutians. Also some small navy ships? And a couple of mission goals set further East than Hokkaido?

Any chance? Pretty please?

Hehe, I'm just joking. You have to do what you want. I'm happy enough with the Aleutians base working.

I noticed that the game seems to have the campaign files separately rather than in one big file. Is that really the case or is there a big file somewhere that I've missed? If the files are split up it seems like that would make modders' jobs easier to some extent.

Egan
04-03-07, 01:40 PM
There don't seem to be any RND files or that sort of thing any more. One the whole the campaign structure seems both simpler yet more complex and I'm not entirely sure how it all hangs together so far as I've only just started looking at it. Given the difficulty I had the other night with saving edited files (it kept saving a blank version...:x ) I'm probably going to have to do a refresher course to get used to it all again.

One of the nicest discoveries so far, though is that you know longer seem to need to create a huge locations.cfg for adding new ports - they can now be added directly into the apropriate .mis file in the editor...I'm sure CCIP, Nico and Jace will agree that this will save a massive amount of time and frayed nerves.

I want to get the Aleutian stuff in there. I also want to add patrols to the coast of IndoChina (several were conducted very early in the war but I have't seen one in game yet.) I'm not sure yet of the relation ships between the way the campaign assigns patrols and the link between the 'Contact reports' files and the 'Patrol objectives' files.

On the face of it, to create new patrol areas specific for the Aleutian base one would simply create a new 'Patrol Objectives .mis and .TSR file and alter the flotilla .UPC file accordingly. However, things being what they are I'm sure there is something else I'm not seeing.

There are a lot of map labels I would like to get in there too but I know nothing about DDS editing and my efforts so far have merely ended with huge blue or black squares appearing on the map...:-?

On the plus side, most of the major naval engagements and invasions are already there. Editing them would be so much easier than doing them all from scratch but we shall see.

I have a list of things I want to do so I'll add the Aleutians in. I'm going to be reformatting in the next few days but once that's done I'll get down to business.

God. It's worse than drugs.

Beery
04-03-07, 02:08 PM
There are a lot of map labels I would like to get in there too but I know nothing about DDS editing and my efforts so far have merely ended with huge blue or black squares appearing on the map...:-?

If you have Photoshop or Photoshop Elements you can get a plug-in that will allow Photoshop to work with these files. They're just like tga files. I think I posted a link to the plug-in somewhere. Here it is: http://developer.download.nvidia.com/tools/texturetools/Photoshop_Plugins_7.83.0629.1500.exe

God. It's worse than drugs.

It is. :yep:

Egan
04-03-07, 03:06 PM
I'm using Infranview to check out the .DDS stuff just now. Problem is I can't work out how to actually make the changes. I'm rubbish at this sort of thing but I'm going to keep at it. When I open the files up I just get Blue or Black squares depending on whether it is for an Island or a narrow. Can't work out how the sim changes this to the text labels on the map. I just end up with big nasty squares...:-?

I've just spent 500 quid on new gear so I can't really afford Photoshop. I might try paintshop as well and see.

Edit: Paint.NET with the DDS plug in works. In business now..(i hope,)

WWSandMan
04-07-07, 08:54 AM
Stupid question from an SH4 n00b... can all three of the RFB mod versions be employed at once? JSGME gave me a warning about over-writing similar files when I applied #2 over #1, so I stopped the process.

Beery
04-07-07, 09:12 AM
Stupid question from an SH4 n00b... can all three of the RFB mod versions be employed at once? JSGME gave me a warning about over-writing similar files when I applied #2 over #1, so I stopped the process.

Use JSGME to remove #1 and then install the latest one which you can find here: http://www.beerymod.com/SH4/RFB112.7z.

Although it seems the download site is down at the moment. Anyway the latest mod is the only one you need.

Gizzmoe
04-07-07, 10:13 AM
RFB 1.12 thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110993

Thread closed, to avoid confusion.