REL- Additional Visual nodes for GWX

[Ducimus]

I hereby proclaim this thread dead.

Raise it again, and your a thread necro!

[Letum]

Could you please briefly answer the following:

1) How does this effect a typical convoy attack in GWX?
2) How does this effect a typical night time convoy attack in GWX?
3) How does this effect a typical aircraft evasion GWX?
3) How does this effect a typical PT boat evasion GWX?
4) How does this effect a typical lone merchant attack GWX?
5) Have all (non-warship) units in GWX been changed?
6) Is it possible to give BBs better visuals to reflect the huge binoculars and number of spotters they had?
7) Is it possible to give all units poorer visibility in the early war years?


Thankyou :D

[Ducimus]

thread is dead

[Woof1701]

This sounds like a great addition with a lot of potential. Thanks a lot for the work you've done!!

[oRGy]

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this. The only thing is that the aircraft spotting seems very high compared to reality; visually spotting a sub across miles of sea was hard, but more importantly, I don't see how you could physically see further than 30km even in perfect conditions...

Otherwise, :up: Hope the GWX team take note of this.

[GT182]

I asked this in the post about changing the motorcycle on your departure dock. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104635

I could never understand why there isn't anything on any docks except where you depart from. Just having static equipment would be nice. As long as nothing moves, it shouldn't cause problems with frame rates I'd think.

Duc, would this be possible with you mod too?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this. The only thing is that the aircraft spotting seems very high compared to reality; visually spotting a sub across miles of sea was hard, but more importantly, I don't see how you could physically see further than 30km even in perfect conditions...

Otherwise, :up: Hope the GWX team take note of this.

The ranges that we've posted and sometimes discuss are not a numbers that we simply pulled out of our hats.

Regarding aircraft spotting U-boats, I've done deep research into this area/field personally. Very often you could see the wake LONG before aircraft radar or any on-board mark-1 eyeballs picked up the actual sub itself sub.

Then, there is the whole thing concerning oil slicks... not represented in SH3.

The definitive and primary source of information concerning aircraft vs. U-boats in GWX was "Dark Sky, Deep Water" by Norman Franks.

Something else that you must understand regarding the visual sensors in GWX as they stand in general. They yield a POTENTIAL (not a certainty) of seeing a reasonable distance based on first hand accounts and modern range estimations from a known point to another known point.

You can indeed see 30 km on a clear day. (In GWX we are limited to 16km for obvious reasons.)

This POTENTIAL spotting is influenced by several atmospheric variables.

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

[Payoff]

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

I always assumed the Germans had the finest optics in WWII. I guess you learn something new every day.

[Sailor Steve]

Also, ship-mounted optics were REGULARLY superior/more powerful, and greater in number, than available U-boat optics and were set at higher elevations ergo yielding higher potential ranges.

Read page 10 of the GWX manual, though it is and will likely remain fairly general in nature, it may shed a little light on the subject.

I always assumed the Germans had the finest optics in WWII. I guess you learn something new every day.
German optics were among the finest. When actually spotting something, binoculars are binoculars, and eyeballs are eyeballs. Submarines usually spotted bigger ships before the subs were spotted, because the targets were bigger. However, usually isn't always, and it's a mistake to stay surfaced after you've spotted them, because sooner or later they will see you.

As far as shooting goes, a single-barreled gunsight mounted on a cannon will always loose to a nine-or-fifteen-foot stereoscopic rangefinder.

[Ducimus]

Nice work Ducimus. Didn't know you could do this.

Just to reiterate, the core of this , is the AI_sensor file with the additional visual nodes. I did not create this. It came from NYGM TW 2.0. How they created it ive no idea. But with the "mod war" well and over, i have no qualms about using idea's they've had that i think are good. Personnaly i think the AI_visual with additional nodes is an elegant solution to various problems. The trick is setting the sensor's and enviormental variables right.

[Mush Martin]

That is totally wicked I cant wait. MM

[Ducimus]

Thread is dead.

New one here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

[Madox58]

AirB is currentlly unused? :hmm:

Could that be cause it stands for Balloons? :rotfl:

Well, this just helps me to no end!!

Being that the K-Ships flew slower, stayed with the Convoy,
and had a very good 360 degree, stable platform to observe from
I always felt I needed to AI them a bit differently then normal
Aircraft.

[Ducimus]

Just FYI i found a bug with the SE_Visual sensor. Either the that node has a hard limitation on it, or i have the tweak file for that sensor messed up. All the other sensors work fine, but SE_Visual will not adjust itself beyond 10,000 meters.

I'll have an updated file as soon as i get time to fix it. If it's not a tweak file problem then ill use the SE_Visual for fishing boats and the F_Visual for torpedo boats and such.


EDIT:
Ok AI_Visual, M_visual, F_visual, and AirS_Visual all work correctly.
The fly in the ointment is SE_Visual. For whatever reason its geometry will not alter in game (fixed 10,000 meter max distance), even though it reads fine in the tweak file.

Options that i can see:

1.) Drop the SE_Visual and do not use it.

2.) Move the SE_visual with its apparent fixed range of 10,000 meters to coastal vessels like fishingboats, trawlers, tugboats and the like. and use the F_Visual for elco's, and other fast attack type ships.

3.) Leave them as is and re-examine the tweak file for errors with this node.


If anyones intrested in this mod, let me know how you think this should be handled.

[Ducimus]

Ive rereleased the file after going back over it. (D/L file again in orignal post.) To reiterate, i encountered a problem with the SE_Visual being fixed at 10,000 meters. I noticed this problem when leaving port when i know i had set it to be 16K.

Don't you test this crap ? Yup. Tested all the visual nodes except that one.. Go figure.

Anyway I decided that just because the file has extra nodes, doesnt mean i have to use them all. So what i decided on was this:

All aircraft use AirS_visual
All merchant and coastal traffic use M_visual
All warships use AI_visual as before
Small fast attack torepdo boats use F_visual

From testing so far im quite happy with these settings. With M_visual at 14,000 meters i was visually detected by a mercant at about 7200 meters in a 7kt wind during daylight, and i was partially bows on to him, with the merchant being at my 10'oclock or bearing 335-340ish. Im sure had i given him my broadsides he would have detected me much earlier.

This should give you a little bit more varation since merchants and warships no longer have the same visual sensor.

[mikaelanderlund]

Hi Ducimus,

Can you explain this more carefully? Does this mean I can't use randomized events in SH3 commander?

Known issues:
AI_sensor.dat is incompatable with SH3 commanders randomization settings. Suggestion is to rename the file "randomized events.cfg" in SH3 commanders CFG directory so SH3 commander doesn't try to apply the randomization settings.

Mikael

[Steppenwolf]

I believe the "Randomized events.cfg" file in SH3 Commander writes to the AI_Sensors.dat file. It writes to specific hex offsets (i.e. specific addresses) within the file. Since Ducimus has added data to the file, these hex offsets no longer point to the correct location and the file will be screwed up if you let SH3 Commander apply the Randomized events. A new "Randomized events.cfg" file pointing to the new hex offsets will need to be created.

Ducimus,
I believe that the only information that SH3 Commander writes to the AI_Sensors.dat file is the information for "Thermal Layers". If people just commented out all of the information in the "THERMAL LAYERS" section (by putting a semicolon in front of each line) or just temporarily deleted the entire section (after backing up the file), would they be able to use the rest of the randomized settings without any problem?

[Ducimus]

I believe the "Randomized events.cfg" file in SH3 Commander writes to the AI_Sensors.dat file. It writes to specific hex offsets (i.e. specific addresses) within the file. Since Ducimus has added data to the file, these hex offsets no longer point to the correct location and the file will be screwed up if you let SH3 Commander apply the Randomized events. A new "Randomized events.cfg" file pointing to the new hex offsets will need to be created.


Yup.


Ducimus,
I believe that the only information that SH3 Commander writes to the AI_Sensors.dat file is the information for "Thermal Layers". If people just commented out all of the information in the "THERMAL LAYERS" section (by putting a semicolon in front of each line) or just temporarily deleted the entire section (after backing up the file), would they be able to use the rest of the randomized settings without any problem?


I beleive your correct. It was late last night and i probably could have worded that a bit better.

On a side note, after playing around a little bit more, i'd suggest ramping up the merchant visual nodes to at least 16,000 and the torpedo boat to maybe 18 or 20 or more. (tweak file is in the documentation directory)

The reason is, given the enviormental factors, the AI_visual having a max range of 30K was required to give the AI the abilty to spot you at a fair distance. At any rate, with the Merchant visual at it's current setting 14,000, in a 15 kt wind while remaining on the surface i got to around 4500 meters (still undetected) in broad daylight before i shot my salvo. I think thats a bit excessive. They shoudlnt be as "smart" as escorts, but i think getting in that close is a bit ridiculous.

[Rubini]

Hi Ducimus,

Any news on this issue?
Is this mod included in your last Big Tweak pack for GWX?
Is it compatible with GWX 1.02?

Cheers mate!

Rubini.

[Ducimus]

Hi Ducimus,

Any news on this issue?
Is this mod included in your last Big Tweak pack for GWX?
Is it compatible with GWX 1.02?

Cheers mate!

Rubini.


I should pull this mod honestly.

However, i have on my little hard drive, a more refined version that ive not released.


What i essentually did was take the AI_sensors.dat that i used in this mod, applied the visual nodes as such:

M_Visual = all non warships
AI_Visual = warships
AirS_visual = all airplanes.

I then adjusted them an the sim.cfg visual and radar settinngs to the values in NYGM2.4.

I used those values because its my assumption they're well tested and work well.

So what i have here is an NYGM 2.4 Visual implmentation for GWX, combined with the sonar settings from GWX. THe NYGM ai visuals, i have to admit, work really well, and on top of that, i dont have that 30KM visual distance shennangians gonig on. Early war, when surface attacks are the norm, it makes it virtually impossible to do an end-round attack and not be detected. I don't have that problem now.

I suppose ill release it tonight, or at the least, send you a PM with the file.

edit: but to answer your question:
- yes its compatible ,
- No its not included in my tweak pack.
- Havent uploaded it yet :88)

[Rubini]

Many thanks Ducimus!
Please release it or at least send me in a PM!;)

You know that I liked yours tweaks very much.
I'm sending a PM to you in minutes anyway!

Rubini.

[Txema]

Ducimus,

Looking forward to this mod !!! :D


Txema

[Woof1701]

I had totally forgotten about that mod and I'm glad it was moved up again.

Please please please release it or send EVERYONE a PM :) I'm really looking forward to this. Nighttime attacks have been the thing that's been bugging me since May 2005 :) Thanks a lot for the effort.

[Wilcke]

Would love to try it...please post it and thanks for all the great information...this is a fine sim due to your hard work and the other modders of course.

Wilcke

[Ducimus]

I'll upload a public release shortly.

edit:

uploaded.

[Woof1701]

Great!! Thanks. Will try it out ASAP

What do the *.sns files do exactly? I'm only asking because I added several ships to GWX and I'm now not sure what to do with their *sns files.

[Rubini]

Great!! Thanks. Will try it out ASAP

What do the *.sns files do exactly? I'm only asking because I added several ships to GWX and I'm now not sure what to do with their *sns files.

You need to edit them (only the ones that Ducimus don't provide in the mod) and change the stock LinkName=AI_Visual entries with this ones as his directions:
- AI_visual for all warships (no changes needed)
- M_visual for all ships that are not warships (change AI_visual with this one)
- AirS_Visual for all planes (change AI_Visual with this one)

Rubini.

[Ducimus]

I was just reminded that theres a little feature called Long rane gunnery that exists in GWX. I think its primarly for navel engagements. Another reason for gwx default of an aI visual of 30KM. Now, i dare say that naval engagements are RARE in this game. However, it doesn't make any sense to basicaly break that functionatiy when i don't have to.

Sometime in the next couple of days ill post an update to this mod. Or you can do this yourself if you wanted to.

Theres an unused visual node, called "F_Visual". Im going to enlarge that to 30KM and apply that only to capital warships. (Battleships, battle cruisers and the like). That should retain the functionality of the LRG mod, and at the same time, not have tramp steamers that can detect you 20KM away on a clear day.

edit: acutally, giving the sim.cfg visual settings, i might consider backing that F_visual node off to 20K. Im not sure yet.

[bigboywooly]

The LRG mod applies to all units
In stock you were lucky if a DD opened up at 3km
In GWX they will open up at 6\7 km if you are spotted

Well within RL limits

There are a few lines from a convoy battle on the mikeKemble site ( Temp out of bandwidth :damn: ) about ole Johnnie Walkers exploits
In that battle write up they spot a uboat at 7 miles away on the surface
At the furthest range of the guns - Black Swan frigate IIRC

So it isnt there for just naval battles

[Ducimus]

>>In GWX they will open up at 6\7 km if you are spotted

Not on clear/calm days. :shifty:

Granted its rare, but let me tell ya, being shelled by a ship you can't see becasue its over 20 Klicks away is an intresting experience.

[Ducimus]

new version up. Added F_visual node with 25K max distance to battleships, battlecruisers and the like for those super cool naval engagements.

If you suddenly find yourself being shelled with no ship in sight, it will be one of these bad boys. :88)

[Lanzfeld]

Waiting and thanks Ducimus.:up:

[Lanzfeld]

Well???

I guess I'll try tomorrow.

[Ducimus]

What exactly we're you waiting for? The file was posted yesterday. (twice yesterday acutally :roll: )

[The Munster]

new version up. Added F_visual node with 25K max distance to battleships, battlecruisers and the like for those super cool naval engagements.

If you suddenly find yourself being shelled with no ship in sight, it will be one of these bad boys. :88)

Just had that experience, motoring along minding my own business when next second, the wee submarine turns red and all the compartments turn yellow. Before I could press a button, the death screen appears.
Interestingly, the death screen shows a destroyer right next to me ?!

[Ducimus]

Using this mod?

It might be possible i goofed and accidently assigned the F_visual to a destroyer or destroyer escort, but i could swear that i was careful to avoid that.

[The Munster]

Yeah,

It happened so fast that I can't even tell you what destroyer it was :huh: .

[Ducimus]

Well i see one goof i made. Orginally the F_visual was supposed to be for fast attack boats. Elco's and the like. Looks like i forgot to remove those entries when i reassigned that node to capital ships.

Unfotunatly im out of time and have to leave for work. SO i wont be able to post a fix until late tonight.

If your impatient and want to fix it yourself, go through the sea directory and for every directory which does NOT start with NBB, NBC, NCA, look at the SNS file. If it SNS file contains F_visual, delete that directory.

[The Munster]

Would this affect tonnage ? I've just sunk two ships, managed to escape from a Flower, surfaced then saved/exited and no tonnage or ships sunk on summary screen ?!
[Map shows the sunken ship icons, one in red and one in grey].

Will do the directory thing in the morning.
Good night zzzz

[Ducimus]

No, wont effect tonnage. This deals with their sensors, nothing else. Infact, while i woudllnt do it deliberatlly, i think you can even get away with enabeling/disabeling this mod mid patrol - but i wouldnt recommend it.

[Lanzfeld]

Could someone please post a "tweeked" Sh-3 Commander file to use with this new NYGM/GWX visual file so we can still use SH-3 Commander?

I'm not too good at those things.:88)

Thanks.

[Ducimus]

I'll include one tonight when i post an update.

[Lanzfeld]

Thanks Ducimus. So to recap...we will only lose the random thermal layers and that is all?

Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion. Do you think that maybe the merchants see to well in GWX 1.02 and it makes nighttime surface attacks to hard in 1940?

[Wilcke]

Great work guys, great work, finishing up a short patrol and will give the SH3 compatible version a try!

[Ducimus]

edit:
yeah, all you lose is thermal layers.


Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion.

He'll probably tell you not to use it :lol: Dont expect any GWX dev team support for anything i do - especially if it uses something from NYGM. Use anything i post at your own descretion, and complain to me if it breaks something.

[Lanzfeld]

edit:
yeah, all you lose is thermal layers.


Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion.

He'll probably tell you not to use it :lol: Dont expect any GWX dev team support for anything i do - especially if it uses something from NYGM. Use anything i post at your own descretion, and complain to me if it breaks something.

Roger that:up:

I was just wondering if this kinda highlights something that the GWX team may want to fix.

[Ducimus]

Im gonna grab NYGM 2.0 again and see if they have SH3 commander files for this file in there - probably sometime tommrrow. Or if your bored you can check yourself if you have the bandwidth. I should contact DTB, but i figure he's busy and i hate being a bother to people.

[Rubini]

edit:
yeah, all you lose is thermal layers.


Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion.

He'll probably tell you not to use it :lol: Dont expect any GWX dev team support for anything i do - especially if it uses something from NYGM. Use anything i post at your own descretion, and complain to me if it breaks something.

Roger that:up:

I was just wondering if this kinda highlights something that the GWX team may want to fix.

I want mate. But GWX is not only me, it´s a team.;)

Rubini.

[Ducimus]

Just FYI, ive thought about it, i think im going to limit the F_Visual to 17,000 meters, and make the appropriate change in the sim.cfg file as well. Several reasons.

1.) Detection is entirely different under this model and far more sensitve, so hard limits on max range need to be in place.

2.)Gunnery beyond of visual range (16KM) doesnt really *need* to exist. But captial ships should have that ability. So i figure 1KM beyond visual range is more then enough, and gives you a 1KM window to either get out of dodge or try and spot your attacker.

[Ducimus]

Ok, FIXED!


changlog:

- I found about 8 or 9 entries where i had erroniously left the F_visual assigned to ships that shoulldnt have them. These have been removed.

- Changed AI cannons max firing range to from 31,000 meters to 18,000 meters in the sim.cfg file.

-changed F_visual node from 25,000 meters to 17,000 meters.

-changed M_visual node from 8,000 meters to 9000 meters.

-Changed AI_visual node from 12,000 meters to 13,000 meters.

- included updated randomized_events.cfg for SH3 commander with the thermal layers section remarked out.

- updated readme.

[NiKuTa]

I have one question ? Why did you remove a thermal layers ???

[Ducimus]

Because i dont have the hex offsets to properly write them in. This AI_sensor.dat is totally different then the one SH3 commander expects.

[NiKuTa]

:o - so if you use a thermal layers you may have CTD ?

But thermal layers will return someday ?? :)

BTW nice mod :)

[Ducimus]

But thermal layers will return someday ??

Yeah.
Im going to try and find an old file that was written for this purpose. Failing that, ill try using the offsets in the tweakfile (included in this mod) and try writing it in. I have to be honest though, its not very high on my priority list - i mean, personally, i never used this feature in SH3 commander, but i know others do, so ill get the file at some point.

[JScones]

Thanks Ducimus. So to recap...we will only lose the random thermal layers and that is all?

Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion. Do you think that maybe the merchants see to well in GWX 1.02 and it makes nighttime surface attacks to hard in 1940?
In the Kpt's absence let me point out that he already *has* commented - check page 1 of this thread. I doubt his views have changed.

Now as you have made this obviously goading comment, let me say that I agree with what the Kpt has said as it more aligns to my perception of reality. But I wasn't around in WWII to experience things first hand, so I rely on my RL experiences and what I've read.

And that's the beauty of choice - you (and others) can use Ducimus's mod to quench your perception of reality and I (and others) can continue to use GWX to quench mine.

Win-win for everyone. And kudos to Ducimus for providing that choice. :up: That's all that matters.

BTW, look at this photo...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Nobbys_head.jpg

It's taken from Fort Scratchley, Newcastle, Australia (where I grew up) looking towards Anna Bay ~30kms away (it's from Wikipedia as I am too lazy to scan my own photos). The piece of land at the extreme right is Anna Bay. And you can see this fairly well in a compressed photo on an overcast day with typical haze. Imagine the view with your eyeball on a perfectly clear day. Indeed, one can see Nelson Head, another 5km away, and everything in between, crystal clear.

Now imagine being in an aircraft looking for u-boat wakes, or being on the bridge of a ship with binoculars or other optics. Or at night with strong or multiple search beams. Now use this as a reference for considering POTENTIAL visibility in between (as the Kpt said "This POTENTIAL spotting is influenced by several atmospheric variables.").

Oh, Fort Scratchley once fired on a Japanese sub which was presenting bow only 5 kilometres out to sea at 2am in the morning, with only the muzzle flashes to guide it as it's equipment was not the most modern of the time - much less than what one would expect on an Escort or Destroyer (by the time strong search lights were ready, the sub had gone).

Anyway, my aim is not to convert or convince, but just to explain my experiences and urge you to enjoy the choice you have, rather than merely assume that you (and others who have said "look at this GWX") are right and GWX must submit.

[Ducimus]

Perception of reality is how different supermods got their start as i recall. :rotfl:
It always seems to come back to, the best way to achieve a sense of the word "realistic". Everyone goes about that in different ways, and even the word itself comes under debate, thats always fun. :rotfl:

In a way, in the past I really enjoyed being in the middle of the disagreement between the two mods, because i was free from "forum politics" for want of a better term. That is to say that there are things that both supermods do, that i do - and do not, agree with. It's always been that way for me, and "forum politics" being what it is after i foolishly picked a side once rather then staying neutral, often prohibits me from sharing my views on various mods without stepping on somebody's toes. And i don't particuarly enjoy that.

Anyway, the beauty of game modifications, you can build it your own way. Now i can appreciate the GWX's dev teams stance on this. They've put in alot of work, and then along come some jackass (namely me :roll: ) that takes a core component of their mod and turns it upside down with the release of a mod - the very existance of which is inheriantly questioning some of their work, and the very idea of changing a core aspect of their mod simply inconceiveable.

Now, personaly, I - would be upset. So if members of GWX team are upset with me, i totally understand, id be to. Anyway, my intent here isn't to try and ramrod my perception of what is "realistic" visual aquity for artifical intelligence down anyones throat. I just have my opinion on how i think the game should behave - and followed up on it. If people share a similar opinion they can D/L this mod, if not then they won't. I primarily put this mod together for myself so if nobody likes it and doesnt use it - it wont hurt my feelings.

Now all that said, in my book, its time to shut up and play.:88) Seriously, once SH4 arrives, i will give less then a **** about ANYTHING dealing with sh3, and i won't be looking back on this game for a very long time to come. So any "much to do" about mods (past or present) is - quite frankly, moot.

[Wave Skipper]

I would suggest that since we all love games that offer us more choices, mods should be built to where players can easily decide how much of the so-called realism they want. My view personally was the a mod should be designed to avoid loading tons of absolutes into a game and be open to the use of other mods. So my view was to keep a small footprint. I also noted that when one makes certain major data changes to the SH3 platform one always runs into strange results somewhere along the line. Since I hate having to throw away a long career I tend to avoid over zealous mods. And their are things like the realistic U-boat damage for the skins. When a sub is covered in huge holes and yet it is still diving it just reminds me how unrealistic the sub damage system is for SH3! So I would rather not be reminded by the nice hull art. Since I do not have a super PC I also avoid Mods that try to avalanche my system with countless little TGAs. Its best I think to find a Mod theme and then keep close to that and avoid trying to become a REALITY GOD - or big boss. Make the mods simple and plan for them to allow other mods to overlap on them. In other words mods should be like a small shop rather than a huge Walmart.

[Ducimus]

mods should be built to where players can easily decide how much of the so-called realism they want

Thats why i mentioned what was recommended in max range's, said what i did with them, explained how it worked, and included the tweak file for TT's tweaker incase one doesnt agree - the user is empowered to change it themselves. You can take this visual model, and change it however you like.

Regardless of how you set this model ( I used mostly NYGM values on the assumption that its a known "proven" and should work without having alot of retesting) - the major point of this mod is so you don't have all units sharing the same visual node. To me its utterly ridiculous a tramp steamer having the same visual strength as an iowa class battleship, or to see as far over the horizon as a airplane.

edit:
Truth be told, i orginally only wanted to add visual nodes because of that reason (not change the entire system), but over time, decided that one enviormental variable was behaving way too erratical,

The crux of it is this:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.70 ;[0,1]
Waves attenuation=0.06 ;>=0


These settings really accentuate the sea. My understanding is it creates dips and valleys in the ocean that drop your uboat (or other ships) out of line of sight. The result is in rough weather, your nearly undetectible visually, and in calm weather (given the AI's max visuall distance of 30KM), totally exposed. Sh3 weather pattens are typically in two ways.... 15 kt winds, or dead calm, with not much variance in between.

In 15 kit winds, during daylight ive had planes fly right by me - being so close i could see them. And in calm winds, find myself being detected by a tramp steamer 20+KM away (which given our own visiual limitations, they might as well be past the curvature of the earth), or being shelled by an unknown ship, that i could not see, or identify. I've had both of these examples happen to me on more then a couple occasions.

This is why, when i .. exported this mod, i decide to go ahead and use their values. It wasn't a decision i took lightly. Infact i even tossed this mod and went back to GWX values, before i finally gave up and went back to this one.

As for this one, i personnaly feel the damper on the AI's ability to see at night might be a bit much - other then that it seems to work fine.

[Woof1701]

Hi Ducimus

I've been using the FIRST published version on the weekend. Here are my impressions:

Prowling along the US Coast in my Typ IXB in February 1942 I must say I'm pretty impressed with your mod so far. I had several encounters with escorts, that with normal GWX might have turned out pretty unpleasant. In all instances it was clear weather at night with overcast skies and medium winds. Each time I spotted the escort early enough to reduce speed and get out of its way before it detected me. Most of the times my crew detected the ship before I could make it out on the binoculars though (16 km Mod). Only once I was spotted quickly by an Elco which came directly at me at top speed and started shooting (and not hitting anything). I submerged since the deck gun was out of the question due to heavy seas (and I can't hit Elcos anyway) and after half an hour the Elco was gone. Twice it seemed to me that an escort detected me and was going straight for me, but it turned out I was just along its normal patrol routine and as soon as I changed course and put some distance between us it vanished from view. Nevertheless they're not blind at all and if you wait too long to evade or go too fast, they will see you. Unfortunately I had no opportunity yet to attack a convoy with those settings. Should prove quite interesting.

Merchants under these conditions (overcast, no moon, medium winds) are more or less deaf and blind as long as you don't move. I stayed surfaced and took station along the course of a medium tanker approx. 1500m from the spot it was supposed to pass by me and waited. The tanker never saw me sitting there and made no effort to dodge my T-I eels. Next time I tried the same tactic was wasn't stationary but running at approx 6 knots towards the merchant at a right angle. This time the merchant spotted me and made evasive maneuvers.

With aircraft I had the impression they still see quite well. I was detected by a plane from the air long before the harbor patrol DD saw me. Quite remarkable. The plane came into view at approx the same distance as the DD and the plane saw me instantly while the DD was already much closer and hadn't seen me. Very neat.

[Ducimus]

I've been using the FIRST published version

Its late, im tried and apparently ive removed previous versions from both my local and online copies of the first version. Im curious if i was still using GWX sim.cfg visual values in that version or not. Conversley id be intrested in your impression with the current version and how it would compare to your previous experiences with the first version. Ive had little in the way of feedback other then my own impressions- which i think are stuck inside the proverbial box so to speak.

thanks for your feedback.

[Woof1701]

The version I used IIRC has no changes in the sim.cfg file, since JSGME would have alerted me because I use a modded sim.cfg file. can't be 100% sure though. I wont be home the next two nights, so I can't test it, and I also wanted to test a convoy encounter with your "old" settings. Will take a single mission for that!

With a little luck I will find some time on Wednesday night for that. :)

[Ducimus]

ince JSGME would have alerted me because I use a modded sim.cfg file.

It would only alert if you, if you already have a mod enabled that is using that file. If no mods your running are using a new sim.cfg, then JSGME won't pop up any alert.



You did give me an idea though - make two versions of this mod.
One, try and work with the GWX wave attunement settings
the other, use NYGM settings.

That way, one can use whichever one they think is best, and there's no need for any debates between the two.

[Woof1701]

Good idea :up:

Of course when I mod a file I used JSGME to enable it. I don't write around in the installed files anymore. Gets me in trouble because I tend to forget what I do :)

But in this case I just found out I DIDN'T Mod the sim.cfg file but the basic.cfg file ... Sorry. And the version I'm using has the sim.cfg file modded.