How do you deal with air attacks?

[shegeek72]

I'm on a 1942 patrol, IXC, CB grid off the coast of Amerika (damn long, boring trip :roll:), assignment: patrol CB16. The planes are more deadly in GWX that makes it more challenging, which is good. :up:

How do you deal with frequent enemy aircraft attacks and the need to surface to recharge? Especially with flat seas and practically no fog. You cannot stay submerged for hours on end like you could in the stock version. Wondering what other katpitan's strategy is in this case?

Also, what are the protuberances on this plane for? Radar?
--
http://tarafoundation.org/sh3_plane2.jpg
katzenjammer

1. A loud, discordant noise.
2. A hangover.
3. A state of depression or bewilderment.

[Pants]

One or two planes i engage, more i submerge. As soon as i get the snorkel i use that extensively,Or i use the 37mm's which ever i get first.
Regarding the Wellington, yes those are the radar antenors.

[shegeek72]

One or two planes i engage, more i submerge. As soon as i get the snorkel i use that extensively,Or i use the 37mm's which ever i get first.
My experience has been the planes in GWX are impervious to the flak guns (at least in 1942), even taking direct hits at close range.
--
http://tarafoundation.org/frauleinvomAmtsm.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A4ulein)

[Pants]

It is possible to down the planes, even with just two single 20mm, my settings are engage closing targets at maximum range, Always keep on the move and when you see the plane start to dive on you,Goto to full ahead flank and turn hard (eitherway is fine ) and the bombs should miss you.

[Ducimus]

Ohh, i got the drumbeat routine down to a science. :roll:

Your chances of air attack are Less at night. Your chances of an air attack are greatest at dawn/dusk. But thats just about anywhere, in any year.

In short, i submerge at or before first light (check your "local time" tool tip over the game clock), and surface at 0 hour (midnight). Sometimes ill surface earlier, but ill try and stay under as long a possible to miniize my surface explosure time, and to save on fuel. The only cavet being is that when i surface, im at at my greatest state of vulnerablity having both oxygen and batteries at about 60%ish (or more) drained. If i have to dive again in an emergency before replenishing the air and some of the batts, i'll be in a bit of a spot.

Oh ya, a quick way to end a career game is under the following conditions:

- it's Night
- with Heavy fog
- you have No Radar or RWR
- and your surfaced and on the continental shelf

Nothing quite says, "hello" like a destroyer coming out of a night fog, guns blazing because he had you on radar and you coudlnt see him until it was too late.


at any rate, if i see a plane, and hes like 6000 meters away, i crash dive and dont think twice about it.

If hes like 4800 meters away or less, its too late to dive. 4800 meters distance is .. IFFY. its like getting dealt a 16 playing blackjack. In that scenario, ill go to flank speed, position myself to give him my broadside, and as hes about 2000 metesr off, turn into him. (IE if hes on port, ill turn hard to port), idea being to screw his aim and make him miss. the bombs typically fly over the conning tower landing on the other side. At which point, ill straighten the rudder and crashdive RIGHT after the bombs drop and he passes. You have enough time to get under before he sets up for another attack run.

[Corsair]

Wow, not much time to estimate if plane is 6000 or 4800 m away...
Laser measure ?:D

[JU_88]

depends on the plane. and my boats flak configureation

Hurricanes, sword fish and wellingtons are usually less of a threat and reletivly easy to down

Sunderlands and PBYs are so so, I'll take one on, but not two or more. and Ill only do this if I have C38s

Liberators and Avengers are nasty so I hit the floor (unless I have a SAM luancher on my sub). ;)

Cant comment on any of the new planes in GWX as Ive yet to see one. The beaufigher looks like it might not be worth tangling with.

As Ive said before crossing Biscay in the late war is too easy, In reality Uboat commanders were deeply troubled by air attacks over the suicide run that was biscay and felt safer once they were out to sea! In SH3/GWX its the opposite. This is one area of the game that definatly needs more work.

[AndyW]

December 1943: My crew (unexperienced) shot down a Wellington with 1,369 shots with the two 2 cm-AA twins. It took three approaches, the hull integrity went only down by 4%.

June 1942: A Catalina from Malta hits me on her first approach, hull integrity down from 80% to 8%. The a/c was eating the 2cm beans like a hog without taking any harm. Her second approach finished me off, boat lost with all hands.

I'm currently playing in winter 43/44 and don't have a schnorchel (5000 points!). It's no fun. During daytimes I crawl submerged at 50 m and during night I cruise surfaced with 1/3 speed. Nevertheless I had 24 air attacks during 9 nights, but that's relatively "calm" compared to during daytime. METOX and NAXOS are your best friends at night, without them it's a better idea to scuttle your boat by yourself, because you're 100% screwed without them.

My advise: DIVE !!

Even if you shoot 'em down like turkeys, they're too many and are gnawing off your hull integrity piece by piece.

Cheers,

AndyW
currently U-792 König, 1st patrol 12/1943 [SH3 + GWX 1.0 @ 84% realism]
Total: 10 careers, 40th sailing, 856 days at sea, 544,474 tons sunk

[Tijn]

Does GWX still has the problem of not spawing any planes at TC higher then 256? In stock SH3 there where more planes then in GW 1.1a. How does GWX compare?

[fredbass]

I may stay surfaced in the very early portion of the war because I know I'll run into a byplane and can easily shoot them down, but other than that, I always dive. Remember, once you've been seen, you're position will now be known. As a result, merchant ships and convoys could possibly change course, making it tougher for you to find them.

[JU_88]

I may stay surfaced in the very early portion of the war because I know I'll run into a byplane and can easily shoot them down, but other than that, I always dive. Remember, once you've been seen, you're position will now be known. As a result, merchant ships and convoys could possibly change course, making it tougher for you to find them.

I dont think that level of AI (regarding evasion) is modelled in to the game.

[fredbass]

Does GWX still has the problem of not spawing any planes at TC higher then 256? In stock SH3 there where more planes then in GW 1.1a. How does GWX compare?

I'm sure you'll run into planes more often at lower TC's but you will still encounter them at a higher compression too. The thing is that at higher TC, your range to detect could be a little closer,. Lower TC will give you some distance at times. So what happens is that when you're cruising along at a high compression, by the time they're spotted, they could be too close to escape without being attacked.

[fredbass]

I may stay surfaced in the very early portion of the war because I know I'll run into a byplane and can easily shoot them down, but other than that, I always dive. Remember, once you've been seen, you're position will now be known. As a result, merchant ships and convoys could possibly change course, making it tougher for you to find them.

I dont think that level of AI (regarding evasion) is modelled in to the game.

You sure about that?

[andy_311]

So far Ive only took out a handfull of planes in gwx PBY's,wellintons,Sunderlands,Mossies,I have took afew of those out but the wildcats are a different kettle of fish fast and deadly although I took 3 out Last night flak set to fire at closing targets at medium range, it cost me 12 crew members. and these didn't even show up on the map for some reason.

[Mush Martin]

If you choose avoicance follow the sensible approach.
It is important in surface combat to continue to maneuver
your boat. normally I am flank on the surface with 15 degrees
or twenty degrees rudder alternately port and starboard

the Subs AI gunners arent quite as sharp as enemy AI it
said so in GWX manual ammo consumption and inneffective
shooting can be corrected by manning the gun yourself
and learning to use the sight correctly to lead oncoming
aircraft

when using AI gunners on sub I also choose target
approaching aircraft but I choose engage at medium
range as it increases the chances of my boys getting
a hit by allowing a bigger target but reduces ammo use
by the crew by 20-30% (close range not recommended)
MM

[JU_88]

Attacking panes that are closing is the best time to hit them as you dont have to judge an interception point for your rounds ahead of the target.
How ever there is a down side - if the planes is heading directly at you when you shoot it down -hes going to do a 'bin laden' right in to your boat :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

I set my boat up to automatically dive to scope depth and hit the C key if needed. Doenitz told the boys to dive when sighting a plane (1942-43) as they were getting very good with FIDO and DC from the aircraft. I pull the plug....no chances here! There is no FIDO yet but I believe someone will get it modelled into the game!

[Sea Wolf]

i first check the type of plane, for example this morning I got attacked by 3 swordfish and shot them down however they're slow, if I see a hurricance CRASH DIVE!

[melnibonian]

I dive deep and fast while praying as much as I can:oops: :oops: :oops:

[Ducimus]

Wow, not much time to estimate if plane is 6000 or 4800 m away...
Laser measure ?:D

Ive lost a few career games for misjudging distance, and how much time i had to get under. Its deceptivly quick once you get "aircraft spotted" from your watch crew. I had to find some benchmark to gauge it. usually when i get an aircraft warning, first thing ill do is look at the map :roll: and see how far away it is, while simultainiously asking the watch officer for nearest visual contact so he can give me a range.

If on the map he looks far off, ill crash dive. If i can't tell then ill wait for the WO's report. If he says 6000 meters or more, i hit C right way. If he says like 4800 meters.. well ive already found out planes in GWX seem a bit quicker. You have what feels like around 5 seconds or so before 4800 meters turns into 2300 meters.

Gauging if you have enough time to dive is very important. If you make a mistake and think you have enough time to dive when you really don't, its like signing your own death warrent.

[JU_88]

I may stay surfaced in the very early portion of the war because I know I'll run into a byplane and can easily shoot them down, but other than that, I always dive. Remember, once you've been seen, you're position will now be known. As a result, merchant ships and convoys could possibly change course, making it tougher for you to find them.

I dont think that level of AI (regarding evasion) is modelled in to the game.

You sure about that?

yep merchies follow their way points and wont deviate from them.

[andy_311]

i first check the type of plane, for example this morning I got attacked by 3 swordfish and shot them down however they're slow, if I see a hurricance CRASH DIVE!

Swordfish were the hell have you seen them I ain't seen them for ages?As for Hurricanes there not that hard shot 1 or 2 of them down in gwx.(early war)

[3Jane]

ARTHUR: Run away! KNIGHTS: Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away!

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-08.htm :rotfl:


O.T edit: http://www.mwscomp.com/sound.html

[Kpt. Lehmann]

ARTHUR: Run away! KNIGHTS: Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away!

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-08.htm :rotfl:

(Monty Python) "... and brave sir Robin bravely turned and fled!" :rotfl:

[Pants]

The only planes that i have a problem with is the Planes with Rockets :damn:
If i see them armed with rockets i hit C so fast you can't see my hand move ;)

[JU_88]

heh whenever they yell 'Allarrrrm!' in das boot, it somehow reminds me of the Holy grails 'Run awaaaaaaaaaaayyy'!!! :lol:

[JU_88]

I


http://tarafoundation.org/sh3_plane2.jpg
.

Ahh thats the worst representation of a wellington that ive ever seen in my life.
Yep those are radar antennas.... or tv ariels, old tail-end-charlie doesn't want to miss Eastenders now does he. :rotfl:

You know, the stock sh3 aircraft look so bad they would even be too ugly for an RTS game by modern standards. In fact they kind of remind me of my first airfix distasters when i was 12 yeas old.... actually they still look worse than that even :down:
Ive opened up the obj files in 3dsmax, you know the liberator, wellington and condor were all modelled using the same mesh, discracefull! And as if the meshes werent bad enough, the super low res (and streched) textures just add insult to injury. better crash dive or shoot them down quick before your watch crew go blind from the ugliness.

[3Jane]

I'm on a 1942 patrol, IXC, CB grid off the coast of Amerika (damn long, boring trip :roll:), assignment: patrol CB16. The planes are more deadly in GWX that makes it more challenging, which is good. :up:

How do you deal with frequent enemy aircraft attacks and the need to surface to recharge? Especially with flat seas and practically no fog. You cannot stay submerged for hours on end like you could in the stock version. Wondering what other katpitan's strategy is in this case?

Also, what are the protuberances on this plane for? Radar?
--
http://tarafoundation.org/sh3_plane2.jpg
katzenjammer

1. A loud, discordant noise.
2. A hangover.
3. A state of depression or bewilderment.


The poles on the rear fuselage are radar. If you mean the two just about in-line with the wings, the small dome would be for sextant 'star shots'. The little bomb shaped thing just ahead of that might be some kind of air-data probe.

[HundertzehnGustav]

if the planes is heading directly at you when you shoot it down -hes going to do a 'bin laden' right in to your boat :nope:

ROFLOL

how many times have i been taken out by a fudged up Sunderland in Vanilla...:lol: :D

great times... once i took out 68 of them... killed the entire UK coastal command loll

[Sailor Steve]

heh whenever they yell 'Allarrrrm!' in das boot, it somehow reminds me of the Holy grails 'Run awaaaaaaaaaaayyy'!!! :lol:
Now you have me thinking of the scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, where Indy is sneaking into the Nazi fortress. A woman sees him; he holds his finger to his lips and says "Shhhh", and then smiles. She smiles back, and while still smiling says "ALAAAAAAAAAARRRRMMM!"

[Hylander_1314]

Flip them the bird, and use a few choice explatives, as we crash dive beneath the deep blue.

[bookworm_020]

The little bomb shaped thing just ahead of that might be some kind of air-data probe.

It the radio/DF antenna housing.:up:

[dertien]

Fist patrol sept - okt 1939

Up until now I shot two swordfish down, that came frome an Illustrious class escort carrier. That was about 300 Km southwest from Ireland. These planes however seemed to relay my position to the escorts of that battle group and it didn't take long to see two of them popping up at the horizon. I had somewhat anticipated that and took a deep dive at silent running after putting some distance on the surface at flank speed between myself and the location that I shot the planes down.

second patrol dec 1939

While crossing the channel I was attacked by 2 Hurricanes, but dove on time, and had minor damage suffered on the Flakgeschütz. Same here, these guys relay your position to nearby ships, so it's ahead flank (under water this time), change course (I use 45 deg port or starboard) and drop speed down to hear wots going on every 5 minutes, as soon as I have a visual on a destroyer it's silent running and 2 kts for me until he's out of sight. The channel is not a place to be depthcharged.

[Corsair]

The Channel is simply not a place to be in... :D