1984

[STEED]

How near has this story come true, in the world we live in?

[XabbaRus]

I'm off to live in the disputed territories.

[Torplexed]

You guys need to get outta Airstrip One...um...Britain soon.

Eurasia is our ally....Eurasia has always been our ally...or is it the other way around?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by STEED

How near has this story come true, in the world we live in?

Not very. As modern people of the world, we tend to have rather short memories, and like to pretend that the world has never been polarized before. History, however, repeatedly shows us that polatization combined with new technology has occured with alarming frequency throughout the history of mankind. There will be a tremendous state of hostility, has it has before, and things will then calm down again, also as before.

Greed and ambition is man's way. However, he lacks a stomach for enough carnage to make conflict over too extended a period of time. This, which one would think to be a benefit to man, is rather a hinderance. It prevents him from moving beyond his conflict, and ironically makes him more likely to engage in such action frequently in the future.

In short, I do not see us anywhere near giant, all-sentient governments and video monitoring in the home. Such has been cried repeatedly for the last thirty years, and nothing has yet happened. One would think it time for the cries to die down, but, alas, they present themselves anew.

[STEED]

I think elements of this story have come true, we do seem to be heading towards something which looks bleak but it dose depend on what's going on in the world. Are we heading towards fragmentation instead of a super power as in country but a super continental alliance just like in 1984? As things stand at the moment most likely not but what of the next 50 years?

[Takeda Shingen]

On the contrary, modern man, globally speaking, has a greater frequency and volume of liberties than he has ever had at any time in history. If anything, society seems to be moving rapidly away from the Orwellian model.

Fragmentation is all-present. The countries of Central and South America have either distanced themselves, or expressedly stated that they want nothing to do with the United States of America. The Israel-Lebanon incident has put distance between the US and it's closet ally, Great Britian. The member states of the European Union cannot even agree on voting procedures, let alone meaningful international action. The United Nations has lost even the sembelence of status: It is almost universally regarded as a dimplomatic joke. Here again, Orwell seems left to dust.

Nay, Orwellians have once again been thwarted. It seems that the science-fiction fans will have to join the fantasy-loving followers of Tolkien on the sidelines of man's philosophy, and once again leave the debate of man's directions to the Danteans, Shakespereians and Wagnerians.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Not very. As modern people of the world, we tend to have rather short memories, and like to pretend that the world has never been polarized before. History, however, repeatedly shows us that polatization combined with new technology has occured with alarming frequency throughout the history of mankind. There will be a tremendous state of hostility, has it has before, and things will then calm down again, also as before.

Greed and ambition is man's way. However, he lacks a stomach for enough carnage to make conflict over too extended a period of time. This, which one would think to be a benefit to man, is rather a hinderance. It prevents him from moving beyond his conflict, and ironically makes him more likely to engage in such action frequently in the future.

In short, I do not see us anywhere near giant, all-sentient governments and video monitoring in the home. Such has been cried repeatedly for the last thirty years, and nothing has yet happened. One would think it time for the cries to die down, but, alas, they present themselves anew.

It is happening. You are being watched on that very post you just made. You are now being monitored in your livingrooms as to the type of shows you watch (Through digital cable). Some people are even using an experimental device to see if cable ops can see emotion across the wire on certain commercials. Tivo is now selling what ads you skip over so you can get targeted ads. Don't ever think that when they say that it is annonymous that they can't trace it back to the source. Your credit cards and ATM tell people what you buy. I've even heard of a DUI conviction being upheld simply because Safeway records showed that the guy buys a lot of beer. Your ISP's now are being told they should hold onto your records of where you go on the net. Everyone wants to install spyware for the same purpose (without your consent) on your PC to monitor your habits. Cookies track you where you go. Your cell phones now can be targetted to watch where you travel and your daily habits. Even your DNA is being sought by insurance industries. Who owns your DNA? I've figured out that I don't own mine it would seem. Insurance companies sell your information. Telemarketers record your data and sell it to who knows where. Your cars are being equiped with monitoring devices that can be used against you in a court of law, and they tell throttle position, brake position, if you were speeding, and rental companies are now even using GPS to monitor where you go, and even give you a ticket if you exceed the speed limit. All your are travels are forever documented. All your phone calls are kept forever as far as I know. Even your work is watching your health record, and they are starting to take a valid interest into what you do when you are not at work...

I can go on forever with this list, but to think that 1984 is not happening....

To see what is under attack in the US on any given day as far as datamining:
http://www.eff.org/

Or their partners in crime:
http://www.epic.org/

Any day on the register is another day of privacy and monitoring under attack and people are trying to control your life:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/

Another good site similar to the Reg above:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx

But if you just want the world to run itself and don't care what people think of what underwear you buy, you can just go here: http://mrcam.free.fr/trance4ever/ind...&fonction=mixs - I suggest A New Planet by Stef which will make you forget about all the worlds problems.

-S

PS. If you can support either EFF or EPIC, please do.

PPS. The world knows more about you than you do about yourself - mark my words.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

PPS. The world knows more about you than you do about yourself - mark my words.

I will. I am not an alarmist. I do not buy into popular society's culture of fear. I will not be held hostage to a news agency that will have me tune in at 11 so they, and only they, can tell me how I will die in my bed this night. I will not pulled into the hysteria of the brave new world. If you are of the belief that any of monitoring of the people is new, then you are mistaken. This has happened repeatedly, and with the same frequency, through the ages. Only the method changes. We have not crossed a threshold, rather we have only changed playing fields.

Now, do mark my words: In fifteen years, we will still be discussing these same problems. Perhaps they will have a different face, a different context, but nothing will have changed. Social direction is a delusion of the mind. Society is directionless.

[Oberon]

1984?!

A good year

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I will. I am not an alarmist. I do not buy into popular society's culture of fear. I will not be held hostage to a news agency that will have me tune in at 11 so they, and only they, can tell me how I will die in my bed this night. I will not pulled into the hysteria of the brave new world. If you are of the belief that any of monitoring of the people is new, then you are mistaken. This has happened repeatedly, and with the same frequency, through the ages. Only the method changes. We have not crossed a threshold, rather we have only changed playing fields.

Now, do mark my words: In fifteen years, we will still be discussing these same problems. Perhaps they will have a different face, a different context, but nothing will have changed. Social direction is a delusion of the mind. Society is directionless.

Yeah, we will be talking about how much worse it is - I agree. We are only on the tip of the iceberg right now. Unlike previous history, you forgot technology. This is the first time in history that everything is logged, and it 'never' gets deleted anymore. It is there till you die. Only in the 2000's has this become possible.

There are some big things coming around the corner, and they are ugly.

-S

[TteFAboB]

For 1984 to come true, totalitarism must triumph, and the only thing necessary for evil to triumph...(complete the phrase searching for Edward Burke on google).

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

How near has this story come true, in the world we live in?

Not very. The faction-building of today is not to be seen on that map.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

For 1984 to come true, totalitarism must triumph,

that on the other hand is very near. Politically tryrannies not overcome but revitalized in Easertn European countries and several USSR'S southern republics, inclduing Putin himself, democracy in the West being hollowed out, corporations taking over the policy-building on international stage, and Islam's doctrine in charging offensive.

[bradclark1]

corporations taking over the policy-building on international stage

You have more to fear from this then big brother. But I'd add national policy to it also.




Don't mind the stars. I was experimenting.

[Yahoshua]

Granted that we are far from a totalitarian regime, what I have read in recent posts in England alarms me, and very much does play to the tune of 1984.

While I may not be a fan of politicians, it is exactly those politicians who vote "for the good of the people." And yet it is exactly those politicians wo decieve the voters into putting them into office. And mistakes only need to happen once to bring down the house of cards.

Btw, the end of that quote is part of my sig.