Doubt about sinking subs with one torpedo.

Sulikate · 07-30-06, 12:59 PM

Hello, I just installed DW again, and while playing a mission made by myself (akulaII (me) vs two kilos), I sunk both with one torpedo each and I wander if this is realistic. I can't remember a single time I wasn't sunk by the first fish too...
Wouldn't a sub be able to survive a single hit?

Kapitan · 07-30-06, 01:05 PM

nope not at all maybe surfaced but not deep.

SeaQueen · 07-30-06, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulikate

Hello, I just installed DW again, and while playing a mission made by myself (akulaII (me) vs two kilos), I sunk both with one torpedo each and I wander if this is realistic. I can't remember a single time I wasn't sunk by the first fish too...
Wouldn't a sub be able to survive a single hit?

Maybe, it depends. Certain subs might be able to sustain multiple hits, particularly large double hulled vessels. On the other hand, if a submarine is at the right depth and the right pipe breaks, a torpedo won't even have to penetrate the hull for the sub to sink. Modeling damage on submarines is kind of a squishy subject. In general, the assumption of a single hit putting a sub out of action is probably fairly good.

sonar732 · 07-30-06, 05:23 PM

Something else to think about is the size of the warhead on the torpedo.

Henson · 07-30-06, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

In general, the assumption of a single hit putting a sub out of action is probably fairly good.

With a heavy torpedo, yes. Airdropped, maybe.

Sulikate · 07-31-06, 10:47 AM

For example, in Hunt for the Red October (the book/movie), a Typhoon takes 3

hits and doesn't sink: is this possible?

LoBlo · 07-31-06, 11:19 AM

I don't remember the Red October taking any hits in the book or the movie.... which scenes are the talking about?

Ever seen the pictures of a surface ship practice targets that have been hit with a heavyweight torpedo as an example of their explosive power. They have been known to completely break the ship in half. Total underwater detonations carry a slightly different explosive dynamic iirc, but afaik even high strength steel is no match for the explosive pressures/power of a direct hit.

SeaQueen · 07-31-06, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

With a heavy torpedo, yes. Airdropped, maybe.

Well... ya know... it's a toy simulation. I feel like the most crude approximation in these kinds of things is frequently more instructive than trying to make a more sophisticated assumption and doing it wrong.

LoBlo · 07-31-06, 04:52 PM

I've always wondered if there was anyway to randomize the torpedo damage in the game so that the number of torpedoes that it would take to sink a sub/ship would be a little more unpredictable. Right now, the torp damage is fixed as well as the platform hit points so that once you know how many torps it takes to sink a ship then it will always take the exact number everytime.

Perhaps a .ini file that boots up with the game and adds/subtracts from the damage points of each weapon randomly.... hm... I'm going to put this on the the suggestion thread.

Henson · 07-31-06, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

With a heavy torpedo, yes. Airdropped, maybe.

Well... ya know... it's a toy simulation. I feel like the most crude approximation in these kinds of things is frequently more instructive than trying to make a more sophisticated assumption and doing it wrong.

I said maybe for an airdropped because I'm not sure what the warhead on those things can do. I assume that it's sufficient to do the job, but it IS a lightweight torpedo that I know very little about, so who knows.

A PBXN-109 warhead detonation from a 48 will ruin your day though. Big boom, dead sub.

Deadeye313 · 07-31-06, 10:13 PM

at the depth modern subs cruise at, any kind of significant torpedo caused rupture would likely lead to an implosion due to the tons of pressure exerted on the hull.

Sub Sailor · 07-31-06, 10:13 PM

Gentleman;
In most cases and even on the surface a sub being hit by one of the heavy weight fish will sink.
A problem for, at least US Boats, lack of compartments, almost any major hull breech will be enough to sink the boat. I don't know the compartment layouts of other countries boats.
I agree many of the light weight fish will not sink a sub , example the 46, but again depth is always a major factor. I would think a double hull boat could take a hit by a 48 and possibly not sink, but down at max depth she would rupture. Probably a Typhoon could take 3 maybe even 4 hits by Mark 50s or 46s.
US Boats even the Ohio class have very large compartments, compare any of our Nuke boats with a WWII boat. My first boat USS Swordfish SSN 579 had more compartments than a 688. The secret don't get hit.

One of the things we learned from Thresher was it would be possible to draw residual heat from the core to drive yourself to the surface. We developed sub safe with emergency blow to utilize this. If a hit did not scram the plant you good go to flank and hit the chicken switch and maybe make it even with say the bow compartment flooding, but it would be a close thing.

Respectfully,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

jason taylor · 08-01-06, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBlo

I don't remember the Red October taking any hits in the book or the movie.... which scenes are the talking about?

Ever seen the pictures of a surface ship practice targets that have been hit with a heavyweight torpedo as an example of their explosive power. They have been known to completely break the ship in half. Total underwater detonations carry a slightly different explosive dynamic iirc, but afaik even high strength steel is no match for the explosive pressures/power of a direct hit.

_______________________________________
At the final scene when Tupolev tries to save the Motherland's bacon, in the book he gets one hit on Red October. It wasn't enough to sink it but it certainly would have crippled it for several months except for the fact that the Americans intended to disect Red October anyway so it didn't matter whether or not it could sail as long as it could get to port.

OneShot · 08-01-06, 02:14 AM

Well,

I played a Quickmission a week or so ago where I had to find and destroy an OSCAR-II class and it took me 3 torps (Mk 50, I played the P3) to bring it to the bottom. The sub itself was in very shallow waters.

SeaQueen · 08-01-06, 08:40 PM

The way to do that would be to somehow use the Weibull distribution. The idea being the probability of failure given a "weakest link." I'm not quite sure how to do it, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBlo

I've always wondered if there was anyway to randomize the torpedo damage in the game so that the number of torpedoes that it would take to sink a sub/ship would be a little more unpredictable. Right now, the torp damage is fixed as well as the platform hit points so that once you know how many torps it takes to sink a ship then it will always take the exact number everytime.

Perhaps a .ini file that boots up with the game and adds/subtracts from the damage points of each weapon randomly.... hm... I'm going to put this on the the suggestion thread.

07-30-06, 12:59 PM	#1
Sulikate Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2004 Location: South Korea Posts: 834 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Doubt about sinking subs with one torpedo. Hello, I just installed DW again, and while playing a mission made by myself (akulaII (me) vs two kilos), I sunk both with one torpedo each and I wander if this is realistic. I can't remember a single time I wasn't sunk by the first fish too... Wouldn't a sub be able to survive a single hit? __________________ Se flutua e não fala quack, afunde-o!

07-30-06, 01:05 PM	#2
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,090 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 7	nope not at all maybe surfaced but not deep. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

07-31-06, 10:47 AM	#6
Sulikate Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2004 Location: South Korea Posts: 834 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	For example, in Hunt for the Red October (the book/movie), a Typhoon takes 3 hits and doesn't sink: is this possible? __________________ Se flutua e não fala quack, afunde-o!

07-31-06, 11:19 AM	#7
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	I don't remember the Red October taking any hits in the book or the movie.... which scenes are the talking about? Ever seen the pictures of a surface ship practice targets that have been hit with a heavyweight torpedo as an example of their explosive power. They have been known to completely break the ship in half. Total underwater detonations carry a slightly different explosive dynamic iirc, but afaik even high strength steel is no match for the explosive pressures/power of a direct hit. __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man Last edited by LoBlo; 07-31-06 at 11:22 AM.

07-31-06, 04:52 PM	#9
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	I've always wondered if there was anyway to randomize the torpedo damage in the game so that the number of torpedoes that it would take to sink a sub/ship would be a little more unpredictable. Right now, the torp damage is fixed as well as the platform hit points so that once you know how many torps it takes to sink a ship then it will always take the exact number everytime. Perhaps a .ini file that boots up with the game and adds/subtracts from the damage points of each weapon randomly.... hm... I'm going to put this on the the suggestion thread. __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

07-30-06, 05:23 PM	#4
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Something else to think about is the size of the warhead on the torpedo.

07-31-06, 10:13 PM	#11
Deadeye313 Bosun Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 61 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	at the depth modern subs cruise at, any kind of significant torpedo caused rupture would likely lead to an implosion due to the tons of pressure exerted on the hull. __________________

07-31-06, 10:13 PM	#12
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	One will do it-usually Gentleman; In most cases and even on the surface a sub being hit by one of the heavy weight fish will sink. A problem for, at least US Boats, lack of compartments, almost any major hull breech will be enough to sink the boat. I don't know the compartment layouts of other countries boats. I agree many of the light weight fish will not sink a sub , example the 46, but again depth is always a major factor. I would think a double hull boat could take a hit by a 48 and possibly not sink, but down at max depth she would rupture. Probably a Typhoon could take 3 maybe even 4 hits by Mark 50s or 46s. US Boats even the Ohio class have very large compartments, compare any of our Nuke boats with a WWII boat. My first boat USS Swordfish SSN 579 had more compartments than a 688. The secret don't get hit. One of the things we learned from Thresher was it would be possible to draw residual heat from the core to drive yourself to the surface. We developed sub safe with emergency blow to utilize this. If a hit did not scram the plant you good go to flank and hit the chicken switch and maybe make it even with say the bow compartment flooding, but it would be a close thing. Respectfully, Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

08-01-06, 02:14 AM	#14
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Well, I played a Quickmission a week or so ago where I had to find and destroy an OSCAR-II class and it took me 3 torps (Mk 50, I played the P3) to bring it to the bottom. The sub itself was in very shallow waters. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!